Hey Malogos, WheelInTheSky here. As usual, you are refreshing source of absolute truth in a world gone mad. You are speaking for an ever shrinking sector of SC players and that makes me indescribably sad. Please keep fighting the good fight and we'll all hope CIG watches this video, takes notes, and makes changes based on your analysis. Much love and mad respect...
The sad thing is there has been periods where the ships like the Aurora LN, the 300 series etc were able to compete in the hands of a capable pilot in combat, even if they weren't optimal. The last couple of years the combat has gone backwards in regards to being fun. I'll be honest I'd prefer a fairly quick time to kill but a lower time on target, which we have had in the past.
Great video Malogos! It touches on the sentiments of so many of us. I thought the v2.6.x was terrible compared to prior builds, but the more I play v3.0 I find myself blasphemously wishing for v2.6.3. v2.6.3 with goat faint removed or much harder to trigger, weapon balance, missiles with skill checks (or removed), round based combat, pickups removed, default mode changed to Squadron Battle instead of Battle Royale would have really built Arena Commander towards the right direction. The v3.0 shield mechanics make it hard to do sustained damage. Many ships are completely useless. Weapons need the ability to do sustained damage in a single fire cycle. One way to do is by decreasing the regeneration rate or increasing the timer so that shield HP acts more like hull HP in an engagement and regenerates outside of an engagement. The other route is to make shield HP low with high regeneration and or low timers so that they do block some damage but allow sustained hull damage within a weapon's fire cycle. I believe the Shield HP for the F7CM back in the day was around 75 HP per face and it's completely inflated since then. regardless the route, I'd prefer for combat all fighters to have shields that allow for at least some sustained damage against a pair of S1 guns in a single fire cycle if every shot lands. Regarding Turrets, I think many people underestimate the desire for multi-crew combat. Games such as the Battlefield series & Guns of Icarus have amazing multi-crew PVP. Manned turret viability will be a major factor in the amount that this mechanic is utilized by players. Viability will come down to control mode refinement, aim-assist mechanics & damage output. I think the changes we saw with manned turret weapon size increases starting with the Anvil Hurricane & Hammerhead are moving viability in the right direction, v3.0 introduced a form of interactive mode for turrets, but they need deadzone tuning. I think why it has to be prioritized over AI turrets is because the turrets need to be designed around players first and AI & NPCs can simply be balanced around that. Kind of like the NPC ships having their own stats is sub-optimal than putting those AI in the same ships we fly. Many manned turrets need larger guns, that's going require a rework of some of the ship model like the Gladiator.
Ok guys, I'm going to be a little vain and say I think I know what Malogos is talking about here.. This video is all about me and why I have be absent lately. Really, I just don't want to show off all of my amazing skill and maneuvers for you to pick up on! ; ) On a more serious note, I think it would be nice to see less 'Flare' and star citizen'cons' and allow the developers to focus their attention on SQ42 and PU. I don't want to see any new additional *concept* ships until game design and game mechanics gets implemented then we'll see more balancing.. I personally enjoyed the old flight model and combat, but that was back when I was playing AC in 1.00v and haven't played AC in the newer versions. When I was playing the older AC, I did hope for a longer time to kill so i'm happy to hear they're trying to balance that. Peace!
"The combat's really not enjoyable, it's almost impossible to hit anyone" As someone who's just joined in 3.0, phew, I was wondering why the space combat was so shit.
Got to be honest. I was very active in AC the last few patches but I have been disgusted by the flight model and lack of attention to Gimbal balance. Furious_Gato
I tried to get into Arena Commander, but it wouldn't even let me select the ship I wanted. :/ Hopefully AC will get fixed in the next 3 months. The said the are going to work on "optimization" for the next three months. I am hoping fixing AC is part of that.
Good video ! Sadly for now Dogfight and flying physic is just over looked and that sucks at lot in a...space sim...where you fly ships... I don't fucking car of 80% of new things coming, we need good frame rate and a fun and less frustrating in-ship gameplay
I suspect some of the "hard to hit" is due to the wacky inconsistent ifcs and acceleration curves. Jerk is low but top acceleration is high, you never actually reach a flat acceleration in ab1, so your acceleration is always changing and jerk is all that matters while pips only predict velocity, thats two layers of abstraction and it's hardly possible to utilize pips well when they're abstracted two layers from the relevant property of movement. Jerk based movement doesn't make intuitive or physical sense because it implies thrusters don't have an associated thrust but an associated jerk/mass, its bizzare and also makes it an exercise in futility to try to aim with strafe the way it was done in 2.6.3.
I think we are at the point where the REC thing is probably not a bug. A non zero amount of people will buy to compete. The rest will just be a cut to server costs.
He's using Gimbals & Interactive Mode which requires size smaller guns than fixed....Another system that CIG should of replaced with a damage modifier instead. No reason why people can't use some guns because of their control mode.
I agree fully the flight combat is useless you cant even kill a pirate without spamming missiles.... then the ships are toooo wobbly to aim but yeah the damage and lack of weapons to use its like they took back combat... like I literally only had one fight with another player in the PTU and it took 5 minutes of constantly hitting them and less than 12 fps to kill him i felt good but it wasnt enjoyable. But yeah i feel they need to fix the flight combat fixes cause alot of people spent 100$ + on these ships =(
Too bad their sh!ts fukt. It seems like they don't care....I mean why release something thats not really playable? I mean after a year of no content, it's like "oh, here kid...go kick rocks."
Hey Malogos, WheelInTheSky here. As usual, you are refreshing source of absolute truth in a world gone mad. You are speaking for an ever shrinking sector of SC players and that makes me indescribably sad. Please keep fighting the good fight and we'll all hope CIG watches this video, takes notes, and makes changes based on your analysis.
Much love and mad respect...
+1 (Dashcam)
The sad thing is there has been periods where the ships like the Aurora LN, the 300 series etc were able to compete in the hands of a capable pilot in combat, even if they weren't optimal. The last couple of years the combat has gone backwards in regards to being fun. I'll be honest I'd prefer a fairly quick time to kill but a lower time on target, which we have had in the past.
2.6.3 aurora could be used pretty effectively. The ga.p has gotten wider over time though.
If you don't have a Gladius, Super Hornet... You can't enjoy at all AC
Except for they have had this in the past take a look at patches 1.2 and 1.3 and the combat was much more enjoyable during those patches.
Great video Malogos! It touches on the sentiments of so many of us. I thought the v2.6.x was terrible compared to prior builds, but the more I play v3.0 I find myself blasphemously wishing for v2.6.3. v2.6.3 with goat faint removed or much harder to trigger, weapon balance, missiles with skill checks (or removed), round based combat, pickups removed, default mode changed to Squadron Battle instead of Battle Royale would have really built Arena Commander towards the right direction.
The v3.0 shield mechanics make it hard to do sustained damage. Many ships are completely useless. Weapons need the ability to do sustained damage in a single fire cycle. One way to do is by decreasing the regeneration rate or increasing the timer so that shield HP acts more like hull HP in an engagement and regenerates outside of an engagement. The other route is to make shield HP low with high regeneration and or low timers so that they do block some damage but allow sustained hull damage within a weapon's fire cycle. I believe the Shield HP for the F7CM back in the day was around 75 HP per face and it's completely inflated since then. regardless the route, I'd prefer for combat all fighters to have shields that allow for at least some sustained damage against a pair of S1 guns in a single fire cycle if every shot lands.
Regarding Turrets, I think many people underestimate the desire for multi-crew combat. Games such as the Battlefield series & Guns of Icarus have amazing multi-crew PVP. Manned turret viability will be a major factor in the amount that this mechanic is utilized by players. Viability will come down to control mode refinement, aim-assist mechanics & damage output. I think the changes we saw with manned turret weapon size increases starting with the Anvil Hurricane & Hammerhead are moving viability in the right direction, v3.0 introduced a form of interactive mode for turrets, but they need deadzone tuning. I think why it has to be prioritized over AI turrets is because the turrets need to be designed around players first and AI & NPCs can simply be balanced around that. Kind of like the NPC ships having their own stats is sub-optimal than putting those AI in the same ships we fly. Many manned turrets need larger guns, that's going require a rework of some of the ship model like the Gladiator.
OMG Malogos is back. WB. Been waiting for you to rant over 3.0
Ok guys, I'm going to be a little vain and say I think I know what Malogos is talking about here.. This video is all about me and why I have be absent lately.
Really, I just don't want to show off all of my amazing skill and maneuvers for you to pick up on! ; )
On a more serious note, I think it would be nice to see less 'Flare' and star citizen'cons' and allow the developers to focus their attention on SQ42 and PU.
I don't want to see any new additional *concept* ships until game design and game mechanics gets implemented then we'll see more balancing..
I personally enjoyed the old flight model and combat, but that was back when I was playing AC in 1.00v and haven't played AC in the newer versions.
When I was playing the older AC, I did hope for a longer time to kill so i'm happy to hear they're trying to balance that.
Peace!
"The combat's really not enjoyable, it's almost impossible to hit anyone"
As someone who's just joined in 3.0, phew, I was wondering why the space combat was so shit.
2 years later things have only got worse, let that sink in
Got to be honest. I was very active in AC the last few patches but I have been disgusted by the flight model and lack of attention to Gimbal balance. Furious_Gato
I tried to get into Arena Commander, but it wouldn't even let me select the ship I wanted. :/ Hopefully AC will get fixed in the next 3 months. The said the are going to work on "optimization" for the next three months. I am hoping fixing AC is part of that.
Good video ! Sadly for now Dogfight and flying physic is just over looked and that sucks at lot in a...space sim...where you fly ships... I don't fucking car of 80% of new things coming, we need good frame rate and a fun and less frustrating in-ship gameplay
We need a Patch Summoning Initiative!
I suspect some of the "hard to hit" is due to the wacky inconsistent ifcs and acceleration curves. Jerk is low but top acceleration is high, you never actually reach a flat acceleration in ab1, so your acceleration is always changing and jerk is all that matters while pips only predict velocity, thats two layers of abstraction and it's hardly possible to utilize pips well when they're abstracted two layers from the relevant property of movement. Jerk based movement doesn't make intuitive or physical sense because it implies thrusters don't have an associated thrust but an associated jerk/mass, its bizzare and also makes it an exercise in futility to try to aim with strafe the way it was done in 2.6.3.
12 months later, shit still smells the same
I think we are at the point where the REC thing is probably not a bug. A non zero amount of people will buy to compete. The rest will just be a cut to server costs.
Using that mouse like a pro Mal!!!! HAHAHA! PropagandaWar!
you are the first one i see using 4xs2 on a sabre and not the standard 4xs3 fixed setup
He's using Gimbals & Interactive Mode which requires size smaller guns than fixed....Another system that CIG should of replaced with a damage modifier instead. No reason why people can't use some guns because of their control mode.
yeah i know that he is using size 2 gimbals its just strange to see people taking that on a sabre i only saw poeple using fixed S3
I agree fully the flight combat is useless you cant even kill a pirate without spamming missiles.... then the ships are toooo wobbly to aim but yeah the damage and lack of weapons to use its like they took back combat... like I literally only had one fight with another player in the PTU and it took 5 minutes of constantly hitting them and less than 12 fps to kill him i felt good but it wasnt enjoyable. But yeah i feel they need to fix the flight combat fixes cause alot of people spent 100$ + on these ships =(
Too bad their sh!ts fukt. It seems like they don't care....I mean why release something thats not really playable? I mean after a year of no content, it's like "oh, here kid...go kick rocks."