Indigenous Insight on 'Killers of the Flower Moon'
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- So you can jump Around:
00:00-02:24 - Intro
02:25- 08:06 - The Filmmaking and Acting
08:07- 11:55- Notable Moments
11:56-14:00 - Lack of Osage POV
14:01-18:57- White Savior?
18:58-30:29- Complacency in Racism
30:30-35:25- Why no Osage Filmmaker?
35:36- 35:28- Outro
This is a long one, but linked here are the two other native reviews by Vincent Schilling and Jennifer Jalbert.
nativeviewpoint.com/native-vi...
atribecalledgeek.com/review-k...
#killersoftheflowermoon #martinscorcese #review
Don't forget to follow me on Instagram:
/ nativemediatheory
Fair Use
Copyright Disclaimer under section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, education and research.
Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing.
Fair Use Definition
Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship. It provides for the legal, non-licensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author’s work under a four-factor balancing test - บันเทิง
![เก่งแต่ลับหลัง (FINSTA) - ส้ม มารี (Zom Marie) Ft. Punch 4EVE [Official Teaser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fvt0Wz1hfGY/mqdefault.jpg)
I have a lot more to say about my review on this, but I think I'm going to expound on it as it's own video. I'm finding that that Native Community is divided on this film, for good reason, and for sure I'm giving the film too much credit, but part of the reason has to with things mentioned in my video about Hollywood Standards vs Authenticity. The context of this film and history of native representation in popular media combined made for my views on it. I address a part of it towards the end of this video. I encourage y'all to check out my video here: th-cam.com/video/jUMMMUhfwFc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ip3teizo54Q0MwqR
Great job with this analysis, I loved how you drew parallels with other anti-heros like Walter White, Nightcrawler and American Psycho, etc. I agree, the critiques about a lack of native perspective were not entirely warranted, as the whole movie begins and ends with the Osage.
Blessings ✌
24:46 Wow, that would piss me off as well, but again, Americans of all colors are usually ignorant of other people's/ethnicities' plight and don't bother to look things up in history books. Kinda like you are doing with repeating "white s-premacy" so many times as if only white people are evil and all other people are good. As if only white people did gen-cides and ens-laved people.
I'm someone from the Balkans and I bet you didn't know that for 500+ years the Balkans were under the Ottoman Empire and the Muslim Ottomans did terrible things to the European Christians during those 500+ years (also parts of Spain were under Muslim dynasties rule from 711 until 1492, almost 800 years).
Also the Berber pirates conducted many raids in Europe in order to ensl-ve European people, those raids went as far south as Italy and as far north as Iceland. Historian Robert Davis estimates that slave traders from Tunisia, Algeria and Libya ensl-ved 1 million to 1.25 million Europeans in North Africa, from the beginning of the 16th century to the middle of the 18th century. Just between the late 1500s and early 1600s around 35,000 European sl-ves were held throughout this period on the Barbary Coast, across Tripoli and Tunis, but mostly in Algiers. Just in one summer, in 1627, Barbary pirates arrived in Iceland, unaliving dozens of people and abducting more than 400 to sell as sl-ves in Algeria.
But I guess it's not that talked about, especially when it comes to the Balkans. No Hollywood movie was made about the Ottoman wars of conquest in the Balkans.
My gripes about the film is that they portrayed white men as strong and intelligent but they portrayed indigenous Americans as weak and easy to kill, more so indigenous men. European men, white men are DESIRABLE, Molly married one BUT indigenous men are portrayed as weak and undesirable. BTW, Im saying this because Im white but my husband is not white, and he's desirable. Too bad Scorsese of course will put the white male on top and portray them as the strongest even if they are villains.
Excellent review, truly enjoyed your perspective!
its own video 🙂
The thing that is going to stick with me is when Mollie’s first sister dies there is a well attended funeral. The entire community and her surviving family is there to mourn with her.
When Mollie attends the last funeral of a native person depicted in the film, she is essentially alone. Everyone else in her family is dead. Absolutely gutting.
No one really knows, but enjoy reading your interpretation of this movie and this scene.
They dont do the full ceremony either.
It's more obvious when their last baby is born and they're giving her a native name, all the people present are white and looking at the child like leeches waiting for blood.
That Ernest was actually 19 when he came to work for his uncle and Hale was 41 makes a real difference. Leo is pushing 50 and De Niro is 81. It does change the story. They had to make Ernest stupid instead of young and easily manipulated and Hale having a longer vision then and 81 year old would have. It did not make sense in the real story. People want this story to be real but it is not. Good movie. Not a real story.
@@kathyscott9219 I think they found a good way to work around it and the core themes still stay the same
I'm Osage and just saw it yesterday. I appreciate your review. My gr-grandfather was poisoned in 1913. His wife gave birth to my grandmother 4 months later. I've been dreading seeing this, but noticed I was so relieved afterwards. It's all true, and many, many more died. Yes, we're still here.
I'm glad thought the movie was ok. I hated it, but I'm just some white dude living in the UK. What I most hated about the movie is that the Osage people are depicted as not being able to work out what was going on. I found that hard to believe in the way the movie presented it. I also thought DiCaprio and DiNero were underwhelming and extremely tedious to watch. The other actors were great
I just went to doctor and they tried to poison me.
@@jupitermoongauge4055 the way * Mason * perform their evil deeds you need a higher IQ the the Average Joe O.
Be you did not understand that these Osage and other tribes was being murdered during this time ..which was also call * "the Reign of Terror"* . the other population jealous of these effects forced these few people into what they called a reservation. Which was a concentration camp !!! like the Mason Hitler... Remember that guy??? where in these concentration camps they was already killing them whether they had money Or not.. These indian had to do what was order because they had their weapons taken away from them. And they wiuld be shot on spot for any reason. For the Masons The trouble with the Osage was they had money... from oil _-> all the other of their dead relatives and animals that make a lot of oil. That was shot just to get rid of them* The Mafia * original name was the *( Mason )* . are you Familiar with the MAFIA .??? they still exist. New name back to MASONs They steal all profits from everything even the trash hauling and disposals. Real Vultures in America the Masons are known as Buzzards that do not wait for food to die but eat them alive.. They will pick you bones clean leaving you homeless then kill you while you sleep.. then make sausage out of you take your bones and then grind them up. To make trinkets... So it was not that these natives did not know it was that they was trapped in these Concentration camps and their Mason guards was starving killing them. Many starved to death while being rich ...
So it long story .
@@missanthrope2 pharmaceuticals are very often poisonous. The standard western diet is mostly poison. Right wing media poisons the mind. We live in toxic times
Hallelujah that descendants still survive!!!
I think the movie doesn’t portray Ernest as genuinely loving Molly. Rather, it portrays him as him lying to himself that he loves her, when he clearly doesn’t. He basically only loves her as an object, which isn’t actually love at all
Yes, at the end he can't even admit to Molly what he did.
Fetishization perhaps?
I really liked how they portrayed Ernest and Hale as honestly believing they were good people, because that's how people like that really are.
When Ernest comes upon the blown up house and is all shocked, he really is shocked that the murder plan that _he_ facilitated was a bomb that would kill everyone, because all the while hiring the bomb guy to do Hale's plot, he decided not to think about what the bomb guy might do in the execution; he chose to believe it would just be a single kill, when if he thought critically about it for just one minute he would've seen a mile away that obviously the whole family was a target.
That's how evil is actually carried out most of the time. There's purposeful malice and cruelty, but intentional stupidity, denial, and hypocrisy are the actual foot-soldiers of the plan.
The movie is from Ernest's perspective but anyone who thinks he's the good guy missed the point.
As a white guy who struggles with cognitive dissonance and defending people who don't deserve it, I thought it was a unique depiction of the problem that's very real.
I wish we got more scenes of the Osage POV though. Like if Ernest was a side character to Molly's story it would've been a better movie.
It’s domestic abuse.
So, why does he eventually drink the poison as well ? Of course, that kind of self-harm could be caused by mere guilt, beyond any attachment, but is it ? To me, the fact that he can't bring himself to admit it in front of her is the proof that he loves her...He renounced his uncle and got him locked up, so he's not just being a coward... He can't admit it because he knows it would be acknowledging that he hurt the one he loved. And he can't accept that... The film, in my view, does portray him as loving her... It just also portrays him being weak and complacent and somewhat a racist idiot willingly used by his uncle, like a potential fanatic of weak disposition choosing ot be radicalized by a weird blend of warped fatalism and self-interest... All of that and love aren't incompatible... The film also chooses to have her meet Molly and strike up a rapport with her BEFORE his uncle steps in with instructions
I walked into the movie expecting Earnest to follow the typical Hollywood arc of falling in love, doing his uncle's bidding, realizing he was hurting his wife, and then ultimately coming to her defense. It wasn't until about half way thru that it dawned on me that Earnest wasn't "learning" the lessons he was supposed to, that he was internally conflicted but ultimately too much a product of white supremacy to break free like that. By the end, I felt pity for him but much more strongly I felt satisfaction at Molly's final turn away from him. Earnest was a sad, pathetic creature of his racist culture and family. Bill, with his false friendship and greed, was truly terrifying.
The things he and his family put Molly though. I am so glad she left him but also distraught after learning how he and his uncle were pardoned for their heinous crimes years later.
@@barbiqueareathe whole movie "Molly, you in danger girl." How she didn't put two and four together. Painful to watch.
Well said. And that's a huge reason the story/movie lands the way it does. We simply can't help it and keep waiting for a hero and for redemption that never comes. And beyond just good storytelling, it captures a raw essence of the historical tragedies writ large
If I may say, it wasn't "White Supremacy", but pure old greed. A good friend of mine, a member of the Osage tribe, actually had relatives involved in the real incidents depicted.
Lots of surface comments.
The relationship with the Masonic Lodge requires,..REQUIRES!!!, further expose'..
I don't think Native filmmakers should be boxed into make only period piece films. I want Native Cinema to cover all different kinds of genres. But these kind of stories, our history, needs to be told or else it will be forgotten. I didn't learn about the Osage murders until this film was first announced.
Have you seen the movie "The Body Remembers When The World Broke Open"?
@@senioritapolyester I have not, but thanks for the recommendation. Have you seen Night Raiders?
@@arturopineda1997 I haven't, I will look it up. Thanks :)
I absolutely loved Lily Gladstone. She was the heart and soul of this movie. That pained look in her eyes in every scene made me wonder what was on her mind? What kinds of things had this woman been seen and been the through? I just really connected with her character. I hope wins an Oscar.
She does an excellent job of portraying the role of Native American. She claims a minuscule amount of native blood, not enough for her Tribe to claim her. I would have liked to see an enrolled Osage in the part or in the least an enrolled Tribal member of a federally recognized tribe to receive the glowing accolades.
@@cfarlow5830Didn’t she grew up with her tribu until she was 11 ?
@@cfarlow5830 she was born at browning mt inside the reservation, lived there for like a dozen years. inherited native ancestry from her father.
@@cfarlow5830 completely false
@@kerrys55 She said that in an interview
I am Lakota. Member of the Rosebud Sioux Tribe. I thought the movie was wonderful and I wasn't offended by anything. I feel like Scorsese did the right thing to make it marketable. He made it true crime with a true crime perspective. And if he hadn't done that, less people would see it. This is just incredible and having Scorsese, Dicaprio, and Deniro tied to this makes it possible for a broader audience to hear about what happened to the Osage people. Mitakuye Oyasin.
I agree. You want your movie, your themes and messages to get to as much people as possible because the thing you are trying to say is really important but at the same time you have to respect and honour the people that were involved in this tragedy. It's a hard line to dance on but I think everyone who worked on " Killers of the Flower Moon" managed to do it with great competence.
Colonialism/Colonization are evil things done by evildoers. 😔
For God's honest truth, pls read the informative multi-pages comment by 'Lonely Alaskan' at, "Complete History Of Indigenous America Before Colonialism" ... It's on TH-cam.
"We're still here .... We are not going anywhere." ~ Native Americans 😔
"Slavery, Colonialism, Colonization & Genocide" are all evil things done and benefited by evildoers.. Also a great many thanks for the insightful, multi-page comment by 'Lonely Alaskan' at, "Complete History Of Indigenous America Before Colonialism/Chronicle"., that I've learnt a whole lot more about the plight of the indigenous Natives.
@@newyorkerjoe123 Isn't it a bit of a shock to learn Native American population in their motherland, the Continent of America before the European Colonizers arrived, was around 15 millions, while the European population in their motherland, the Continent of Europe was around 25 millions.
Today, Native American population is 15 million, while the European population, in the Continents of America + Europe, is a staggering TWO BILLION.
"We're still here ... We are not going anywhere." - Native Americans 😔
Greed is a major driving force behind "Slavery, Colonialism, Colonization & Genocide" which are all evil things done and benefited by evildoers.
Slavery, Colonialism and Colonization are evil things done by evildoers. 😔
By the way, many thanks for the informative multi-pages comment by 'Lonely Alaskan' at, "Complete History Of Indigenous America Before Colonialism/Chronicle".
The line "there will be public outcry, but they will forget" sticks with me. As someone born and raised in the Tulsa area, with ties to Cherokee and Choctaw tribes, I cried at the end. The end was the celebration that the Osage are still here. I don't look native at all, I look white but I'm still trying to relearn the history and language of my ancestors.
Yeah, I also see the ending as Osage thriving and continue embracing their culture despite the torment they go through in the past (and maybe today)
The opening scene being Osage elders mourning the future loss of their culture too. The contrast between the opening and the finale.
Yep, most of the suffering of the Europeans has been forgotten.
Replaced with stories from the past, made up by their enemies.
You don’t look Osage but white? Probably because you are white
@@ke6264 Or, yknow, maybe their Osage family married to an American just like the one in the movie
I'm Cherokee, born and raised in Tulsa & so was my mom. We learned about the Tulsa riots on TH-cam, together. She's in her 50s, I'm in my 20s. They don't want us to know this, they want to cover it up. I had no idea about what happened to the Osage until I watched this movie. It's sickening that it happened & that it's being so buried. How did school not teach us about this, especially being in Tulsa? Thank you for making this video.
My family and I lived in Bartlesville for three years in the early 1950's when I went to McKinley (all white) elementary school. How could I have lived next door to this horrific tragedy that happened only 30 years before, and none of us knew anything about it!? My heart weeps ...
US history is full of terrible unpunished crimes still waiting to be rediscovered by a wider audience. The 1675-6 King Philip's War, the 1713 Fort Neoheroka massacre, the 1887 Thibodaux massacre, the 1898 Wilmington massacre, and the 1919 Elaine massacre are some of those.
You sort of answered your own question. You weren't in high school all that long ago, yet still, your Oklahoma school system avoided teaching you about the Tulsa race riots that happened right there in OK. It's not surprising they suppressed this story as well. They don't want you to know, likely because they are either (or both) ashamed and think it's not all that important. Possibly because they are racist and don't care enough.
@@Laura-kl7vi if history isn't retold it will be forgotten. After all the ones doing the retelling were involved. I'm just surprised that it doesn't take all that long.
I’m black and also learned about Tulsa on TH-cam smh and how they flooded black towns. I found history so damn boring in high school and now I love it. It’s so important. It’s painful to relive but we have to. America destroyed and allowed so many lives to be destroyed for profit. It’s disgusting but at least people with power are choosing to make art about these atrocities.
I think another reason Native film makers don't have a lot of period work is cost. Only one of THE MOST FAMOUS living directors is going to be allowed a budget to make a period piece like this, let alone one about native peoples. I've worked as a graphic designer on a couple period pieces and those art departments are HUGE. Sterlin Harjo makes it through his show, even with a small budget, because he doesn't have to construct an entire town every time a character walks out the door. I mean think about Smoke Signals. There are basically three sets in that movie. Two of them are reservations and one's a bus. CHEAP. But hey you gotta do what you gotta do to get the story told. I mean look at Dark Winds. It needed Robert Redford and George RR Martin as EPs to get off the ground. Or Indian Horse. Clint Eastwood's Name is almost as big as the title on that poster.
This is the main reason for it. It's extremely difficult to get funding for anything mid-budget like this that isn't a popular IP. Without Scorsese really leaning on this one, it probably wouldn't have gotten financial backing at all. It's unfortunate that everything in the movie business comes down to money but it is what it is.
That kind of budget is even difficult for a huge director like Martin Scorsese to get. That's why he went to streaming services, because studios wouldn't give him the money. First to Netflix, now to Apple ...
@@CidsaDragoonThis was also an adaptation and a story about the mixing of culture, two things that specifically appeal to Scorsese. If that wasn't the case, the story would end with the original book.
Oh I can truly understand that. For just one period accurate woman's dress (this is white European 1873 by the way) it cost me £1000+ on the more affordable end (that's shift, split drawers, bustle, petticoat, corset cover, petticoat 2, polonaise bodice, boots, stockings, garters, hat, hatpin etc). That was probably a middle class outfit, for one person and even at that only 1 outfit. Period costuming and sets are far from cheap.
Maybe CGI extended sets will make these types of settings accessible to a wider range of productions. In many ways it's not as good, but maybe it could drive demand by establishing the for a base for a pyramid with bigger real sets at the top.
it looked like at the start of the film, the front oil tower and all the shacks and towers behind were CG. They street they lived on and drove down looked very real. Of course, looking real is little indication these days.
For a director with the chops of Scorsese, it’s all intentional. I think a pretty major theme of this movie is that history is sort of written by the people who are the oppressors. Scorsese showing it from the point of view of Burkhart is right because he doesn’t have the ability to direct from the perspective of a Native. Also, he’s showing that evil is close to home and regular/simple people have the ability to be manipulated into situations by those with more power than them. Not saying Burkhart was a good guy at all. In fact he is evil but he is used as a puppet to perpetuate the horrors of the story.
Wow so well articulated
Scorsese primarily makes films about the banal nature of evil. Normal men capable of horrible acts. It's good that Ernest is humanized just like Mollie is. It would be a greater disservice to act like evil is only committed by moustache-twirling supervillains. That's one of history/media's biggest lies.
Malice and cruelty are the instigators, but it's denial, hypocrisy, and cowardice that are the actual foot-soldiers.
Indeed. Your comment reminded me of this quote (it is either an African proverb or from an article written by Savannah Ashley, it was written by Nigerian author Chinua Achebe in his book titled, “Things Fall Apart”), “until the lion learns how to write, every story will glorify the hunter”.
@@lmboyd3 I read Things fall apart many years ago - I might reread it now that you have reminded me of it
I watched the movie this week and I loved Lilly's performance. In Arabic, we have a word for that feeling that is a mixture of dread, hopelessness, heartbreak, and rage, it is "qahr" and I think Lilly portrayed that emotion perfectly. Every time she was on screen, my heart was breaking little bit more. I can't start to imagine how it felt for you watching it as a native American, knowing that justice was not served and that the oppression continues. Love and solidarity.
This movie makes me think of a movie about the first Fitna that will probably never be made but should be made.
I agree with your point about pressuring indigenous filmmakers to make almost strictly historical, activist pieces. It's irritating because so many of us can make art that touches on those themes without being a heavy-handed historical piece. Films about modern-day indigenous people have just as much potential to be interesting and intricate. I recently watched 'Hey Viktor!' at VIFF which was a mockumentary with almost 100% indigenous cast, including some from Smoke Signals. Very funny! And it touched on relevant topics without being preachy or over-serious.
Also to add as an independent filmmaker (and an Anishinaabe filmmaker as well) the long and the short of it is that period pieces are exponentially more expensive to make than films set in the modern day. To put it another way, every film set in the time it is made is a period piece too in a way, just with all the period appropriate props, costumes, language, vehicles just sitting around already without having to be specially researched, built, etc.
Blood Quantum does this great as well. It’s got a lot of themes relating to race and colonialism but also there’s an old man who kills zombies with a katana
@celestialcass Have you seen Prey (2022)? On top of being another great entry in the Predator franchise, it also made waves for its depiction of Comanche culture, even going so far as to have both an English and Comanche dub of the movie. If you haven't seen it, I would highly recommend giving it a watch (it's pretty badass)
@@gnarwhal7562 The movie, "Prey" was a HORRIBLE movie... that depicted Native Americans in the WOKEST/ and stupidest way possible. And this is coming **FROM** an actual Native American. Any Native American that supports **ANY** Native American movie that comes out of Jewish/ and WHITE Hollywood; is either 1. Not smart/ or extremely IGNORANT, or 2. They're traitors to their own race, or people. Some of them are probably not even people at all, but shapeshifters/ or "Skinwalkers", as the United States government ((which Hollywood is apart of)) is controlled by these beings. Lakota tribal leaders are well aware of the fact that our planet isn't controlled by humans, but by aliens and black magicians. We ourselves are privileged to occult truths/ or power.
it's strange that we're jumping the gun into lighthearted movies, that aren't too serious, when I feel there's little deep, honest and vulnerable media about the effects of white supremacy in the world. I'm not talking about sensationalised, trauma porn.
This review is so good. The story has been in the dark for almost a hundred years. The least anyone can do is sit through three hours
Gave up after 30 mins
don't get why people complain about the length. it's the easiest thing to look up, how long a movie is, and then plan an afternoon out to see it. What, do they want a story like that to be cut down?
Didn't Spike Lee receive similar complains about his Malcolm X movie? You'd want a life like that cut down?
Did Titanic have this many complaints, that's three hours long as well - and fifteen minutes.
Besides, we just got Oppenheimer and that was three hours long as well, and all I remember is people saying how good it was and how depressing it was, I don't think I remember anyone complaining about the length.
@@agenttheater5 Most people have attention spans of bugs, they also are not intellectual curious at all especially if it's not a subject that is directly related to them.
@@agenttheater5ppl did complain about oppenheimer actually
@@Thisisjustnamethere's nothing wrong with 3 hour movies i appreciate them myself but you guys are being unreasonable lmao. a lot of the times the complaints u hear from people are braindead but in general, of course people are gonna understandably complain about long movies man, nothing to do with short attention spans or intellectual curiosity
I hugely appreciate the elucidation of the protagonist / hero fallacy. I see that a lot when people are talking about the book "Dune" and assume that Paul Atreides is supposed to be a hero BECAUSE he's the protagonist when that is absolutely not the case. It's a reading comprehension issue that isn't brought up enough, I feel.
The main character doesn’t have to be a hero that gets so boring
@kdizzle901 Scorsese is the king of making movies about bad guys. How many times can you describe a Scorsese protagonist as being a good person? Even Jesus was deeply flawed lol.
interesting that you brought this up, since it is the same screenwriter who worked on both Killers of the Flower Moon and Dune, part I. Clearly he is adept at knowing how to make you root for a character precisely by questioning them and their motives, even if they appear to be good, like in Dune, and doing it by expanding the worldbuilding of the story.
@@julienperonne2347 I would argue that in adapting Dune, Paul has to be portrayed as the unequivocal hero. It allows the revelation in the sequel, Dune Messiah, to hit the audience harder and makes them question charismatic people more.
@@drewengel7073 Oh, I completely agree, but I think that even in the Dune script (and by extension the novel), there is a way the worldbuilding makes you wonder if Paul will break the wheel or not... If, even with good intentions, he'll be an agent for good or just an upholder of the colonial rule or not : by starting out with Chani's perspective, by script emphasizing the visions of the eventual jihad that will be carried out in his name, the fact that he is not what the Bene Gesserit had in mind, the spreading of the rumor prophecy on Arrakeen... As much as it is Paul's story, the film never lets you forget that he is part of a larger world, and not the alpha and omega of it, even if he has a larger role... I agree that the script makes Paul appear like a proper hero in the light of those elements, and that the story mostly portrays him that way until Messiah (although we'll see how he rallies the Fremen to have his revenge against the Baron.... I think it'lle be ambiguous), but I think both this script and Killers manage to get you to understand the system and power dynamics at play in the universe of the film and only then introduce a protagonist who will learn about it... and possibly try and end it. Despite Killers being a real story, the way both scripts handle worldbuilding is the same.
PS : by the way, you have the very exact ssame scene in both films, where Ernest is alone learning about Osage culture with the book given to him by Hale and Paul is learning about Fremen culture in the palace...
I did like how the movie at least tried to link the atrocities of Osage County and Tulsa/Greenwood...the way the history is taught in this country is of separate occurrence of brutality against marginalized people instead of a linked chain of perpetual systematic brutality that the country has to maintain.
It's about time "inconvenient" history is revealed. I grew up in Tulsa, attended the Greenwood Jazz Festival every year throughout my childhood, etc. I didn't learn about the Tulsa Race Massacre until I was 20 years old. There's no way that was an oversight in the education system.
Not even close to a comparison.
@@wolvmarine313Curious as to what you think makes them so incredibly different?
@@SmartStart24
One was us and the other wasn't. PLUS, we weren't stupid enough to marry them knowing their treacherous ways.
@@SmartStart24how is the slow secret killing of dozens of people for inheritance money the same as the immediate massacre of hundreds for vengeance of a crime that likely wasn’t even committed
I think my fav scene is when the mother’s spirit is lead away to the great beyond. So gorgeous. The film overall had Terence Malick vibe to me, which Grace Randolph pointed out and criticized, but I loved it! Scorsese was also inspired to pace the movie slower by Ari Aster’s movies actually, and those movies have a pretty spiritual tone to them as well which I love, and I def got those vibes too. I also really loved how the movie used color. Most of the scenes in nature were really warm and gentle, scenes among Osage people were really vibrant, and scenes among white people were really cold and steely, I just really appreciated that detail as a photography nerd.
im glad you mentioned this scene. been thinking bout that scene specifically since I saw it
Does Grace Randolph not like Malick or something? Wouldn't surprise me. Isn't she a nerd culture person?
She is a nerd alright. Not a fan of her movie opinions but everyone has one. Hers just happen to be bad lol
I though that scene was slow motion....but it was just a still shot with slowest walking iv'e ever seen 😆
Scorsese inspired by Ari Aster, lmfao.
I like what you said about Ernest and his relationship with Mollie. I've heard most people say "he loved her but he did x to her. That's so complex. I wonder what we're not shown about his character."
I think his issue is that he genuinely did not understand what it even means to love someone. He comes from a family of cold psychopaths who never modeled what it means to love. You can even see this in his relationship with fellow criminals. All the crimes are nothing but transactions instead of goals shared by a brotherhood. Because of this the crimes fail. Since he's not smart enough to manipulate people emotionally he's left in a corner after these failures.
He tells the truth not necessarily because he has a heart, but because he's left with no other choice. He can't rely on love/loyalty and he can't rely on intelligence
Yeah, they explicitly called that out too with the one fantastic actor, the dude with cataracts in one eye, when he says "get your pencils"
Someone informed me that in reality earnest was actually 19 and his uncle early 30’s when he was manipulated into this conspiracy. It would have made more sense to portray this because it actually explains earnests lack of awareness, mental understanding in several situations, how he deludes himself with the wife and children justifications, ect ect. Why he is treated like a child by everyone including his brother and how his relationships are shown. And this is after he was in war. His mental state was already altered. It’s tragic all the way around. We aren’t supposed to feel sorry for him but he was a mentally fragile young man. He was shown true love by molly and at every turn punished by his blood family. He’s just broken. In reality how he truly felt we don’t really know but this is how the movie embellished certain parts.
@@vikkidonn He was not in his 30s. The events of the movie take place from 1921 to 23, when he was 47 to 49 years old. Ernest was 29 to 31 years old. (They were born in 1874 and 1892, respectively)
@@cameronacaves he married her when he was barely 20 though
@@vikkidonn No, he married her in 1917, he was born in 1892, making him 25 at the time, which was 4 years before the murders began. They changed some stuff for the movie, but in real life, the murders began four years after the marriage, when he was 29
I am Mexican and was very unaware of the Osage culture, and WOW, I LOVED this Film. THIS is cinema. Very interested into learning more about the Osage ancestry. Just mind blowing. Some of the HARDEST people in existence. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!
You, are native too-
Chief Jay strongbow was from Oklahoma and was osiage. He never wallowed in self pity and depression.
Lizzie’s last scene had me almost sobbing in the theatre. I had also connected her ancestors as her parents, my thought on the other character was her spirit guide who would help her to the spirit world. As an Anishinaabe, it reminded me of our burial ceremony. Especially with the clothing choice and colour, red being the colour we see once we pass. Very hard hitting and beautifully captured.
Something that also made that scene stand out to me is that to me memory it is the only death in the film that is peaceful. A mother surrounded by her mourning children being lead by her ancestors into what comes after and it is sad but also so so beautiful. To me it exists as a reminder that among so many things taken from the Osage people a peaceful death surrounded by family is one of them.
The way Marty made a cameo was brilliant he looked like he was holding back tears….this film was a masterpiece
The way I interpreted that was, for many people, this movie is the first they might be learning about the murders. So it being a radio play sort of seem like that's how the people in the movie heard about it. Because history would have passed over it.
Nope
His last line of the movie - "The Osage murders were not mentioned" - in reference to Molly's obituary - really reminded me of how states like Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, and Montana are actively removing Native, Black, Asian, Latino, and LGBT people from their history books and forbidding educators from discussing them. No true retelling of American history is going to be comfortable.
@@Hellomarshgood interpretation, but I think the actual reason for the radio show scene was to just cut the movie short because it was getting too long.
@@cameronacaveswtf do lgtq people have to do with this, COME ON
I thought the ending criticized corporate America; making an entertaining radio show based of a tragedy. Also, the people attending will eventually forget and move on to the "next story of the day" which was foreshadowed by DeNiro's character.
…The end was a recreation of the The Lucky Strike Radio Hour from the 1930s…
i'm aware @@AnonymousGrogu
@@Ellipsis10 sure. People are thinking it’s just “an entertaining radio show based on tragedy” when it’s a beautiful recreation of how many heard the news in the 30s, so the way you described it could feed into the notion that it wasn’t a recreation. That’s all I’m saying. Glad you are aware, seems like the majority aren’t and took it like he was making fun of the tragedy when that’s not the case at all. Tired of hearing that ignorance. (Not that your comment was ignorant, but you know what I mean)
@@AnonymousGrogu Scorsese is definitely not making fun of the tragedy. There are many levels of criticism he's communicating
@@Ellipsis10 absolutely. Sorry if I misunderstood your comment.
As a Choctaw I was absolutely blown away that my tribe was mentioned and the Tulsa Massacre which also affected our tribe as both the five tribes and blacks were shoved into Indian territory to get us out of the way then the whites came to stomp us out for the oil. I definitely felt vindicated for all the historical trauma we all feel
I got a cousin who is Choctaw. I’m thankful for the Choctaw Nation because she was kidnapped and their resources found her in Shreveport and alive. I’m Cherokee living in Delaware county.
“It’s just like Tulsa, it’s just like Tulsa!”
@@alandbs329 You think, because you say so, our history is undone. Ignorance fills you to the point you are useless and spills over to the comment sections you seek out. Good and bad exist in everyone. People like you, who hide the shame of oppressing others because “everyone’s done/doing it” are the reason society is bad and is getting worse. Doing what is right becomes harder over time when atrocities are forgotten.
@@alandbs329 which ethnic group do you identify with ?
@@magnubeido8832 Even the british were invaded, massacared and enslaved by the romans and Nords. It's not a matter of if a certain group has been oppressed just when. I find it funny how much natives act like widdy peacefull innocent hippies rather than the warring blood and territory hungry civilization they as well of the rest of the world were.
The ending gave me goosebumps. The drums shook the theater I was in and I felt it in my body.
This film was made also for me, a European that never heard of Osage people before. I went to watch the film without knowing anything about it apart from that it was made by Scorsese and stared De Niro and DiCaprio. I didn't know who Gladstone was. Now her face and expressions and voice and the way she moved is imprinted in my mind! The film was excellent and heartbreaking and enraging and it made me think of tragic crimes that are still happening around the world (Palestine ) and how compliced we are for just ignoring them.
I didn't know it was a true story until i came home that night and googled it.
My grandfather was in a consentration camp and came out (when Americans opened the camp) a broken man, never recovered.
I loved the osage people, their beautiful culture their respect for women, nature, their beauty.
Thank you! Your perspective means a lot!
William Hale is one of the most evil and intimidating characters I've seen in fiction, and he was real.
People like him in real life and fiction are the worst.
Wolves in sheep's clothing.
Who does hale remind you of. Trump
@@mrsciottimtanot really…. There are much worse still in power including the current president.
@@mrsciottimta Lol no, Hale is intelligent, manipulative and conniving. Trump is loud and braindead - he couldn't manipulate anything as he's too stupid.
Narcissist 🤷🏻♀️ they are out there best believe it.
My husband and I saw this on Saturday. I was so appalled and disgusted I found myself taking prolonged bathroom breaks. Imagine living through that. Unconscionable. It has stuck with me for days and I just started the book. My utmost sympathies to all of the tribes who have continually been put through hell by this government and it’s people.
The banality was the most difficult aspect of the movie to watch. True that it is VERY important film to watch
I felt the same way. It was traumatic to watch.
I knew the basic story in advance & hence dreaded it in advance, but had to watch it in three parts for all the evil I still didn't expect.
Jack Fisk (production design) and Jacqueline West (costume design) deserve Oscars for their work.
PREACH
Fisk is arguably the best production designer in history. He’s done most of PTA’s films too
The costume design was a blissful distraction during the heartbreaking scenes for me
Hear hear! Incredibly clever work throughout the film!
Yeah. I especially loved Anna’s red dres
Thank you for your perspective. I had read the book but was not prepared for the emotional impact of the film. I appreciate the filmmaker’s choice to make this a slow-paced film, not a “true crime thriller” or investigative procedural.
Performances by Lily Gladstone and DiCaprio are mesmerizing. She is so contained that when she reveals grief and shock, her smallest sounds and gestures hit like an explosion.
Ernest’s character is inscrutable. Whatever emotional attachment he is feeling for Millie is left to our individual imagination and conscience. Personally, I thought about kids I knew who raised a calf for a 4H competition, and “loved” it in a way I could not and would not want to comprehend: as livestock.
I’m also glad they didn’t go the true crime thriller route. I think Martin’s decision to focus on Earnest’s decision to rat on his father, and Mollie’s decision to leave Earnest are together far more emotionally charged than the former.
I hope we get an Osage-directed movie sometime to see more of their POV. The scenes of Molly chatting with her sisters were the best scenes in the movie, by far. For me, a person is never more human than when their peculiar sense of humor is on full display. Sure I feel bad about tragedy in an abstract sense, but knowing how Anna and Molly joked about the men in their lives made her fate a gut-punch.
To all the "anti-white movies" this is how one should go about critiquing white people. Though i feel Leo hogged a lot of the runtime, I absolutely adore how his character accurately reflects not the "Eeevviiillll" of white people, but rather, my capacity for denial, hypocrisy, and cowardice.
When he sees the burning house, he really is horrified. Not because he didn't have the information to guess that this is what Uncle Hale's plan was; but because he had the information but chose _not to look at it_ and just hope for the best. He hoped Hale would just kill the dad, so that became his reality. Until reality smacked him in the face.
And even then, he defends the guy, while knowing he's wrong, because that's what he was raised to do.
There is malice and cruelty in hornet's nest, but cowardice, denial, and hypocrisy are the actual foot-soldiers.
It would take a lot for me to be someone like Hale. But I could easily slip into being someone like Ernest who just goes along with whatever.
I adore this film, and I can't wait to see more of the actual native POV and what they're about on top of this white-centered film existing.
Hopefully this'll open the door for more native directors getting big distribution deals and breaking out of obscurity.
That the guy "loved" Molly was about what he got from her-sex and instant wealth. His morality wasn't conflicted; his selfishness was conflicted. That's why he could poison her and still be attracted to her-he probably would not have if he weren't afraid of what DeNiro's character would do to him. It was all about him-sex, wealth, and ultimately his own safety. That is the poison that caused this atrocity, just as in Nazi Germany. That he "felt" love was merely biological conditioning of his sex hormones, like when Nazi leaders formed love affairs with Jewish slaves. If they had any love, they would not have tolerated any violence.
This is why I feel Ernest is actually the bigger villain than King by a bit. It's a close-call. I just find what Ernest did to be that much more unforgivable at the end of the day. We expect characters like King, manipulators, charismatics, tycoons. An Ernest should never come near the atrocities he committed, and continued committing, long past any point where he could've still had any redemption. That dichotomy with what his marriage with Molly should have been, his responsibility to her faith and her love and that of her family, it's just way way way too much. 😞 💔
@@thestarseeker8196
Crazily enough, I read about a Nazi who "fell in love" with a Jewish woman in a concentration camp. He actually broke her and her mother(?) (it might have been another family member) out of the camp. And that was without her ever reciprocating his affections up to that point.
So ironically, a literal Nazi was able to translate his infatuation into humane action in a way Ernest never did.
Still I think the fact that a lazy and dumb guy like Ernest actually learned the Osage language to me signifies something. You do not do it just for sex and wealth, I mean you would if you were a smart schemer like King, but Ernest wasn’t. He could easily married someone and spoken zero Osage… like Rita’s husband I think
@@lkrnpkI thought that bit showed how much time has progressed through their marriage.
That too, but he was learning from the get-go, ok his uncle gave him that advice but I dunno@@Andrea-rc1gz
Watching this in a border town (cities near reservations), I was scared to hear/see the reactions of non-natives in the theater. However to my surprise. A lot of non-natives were respectful. Much of the audience stayed until the final English title card, and clapped.
I too was moved, and in some way, grateful for that ending. To see the Osage dancing and singing in the end, made me smile and feel woe.
Lily Gladstone & Cara Jade Myers aren’t getting enough credit for their phenomenal performances
the best part of the movie by far
"We're still here.... We're still here." Thank you for your quality of presence and for sharing your insights. It reminds me of a reason for hope... that we can all become more fully present, to ourselves, to each other, to our world.
Adding yet a third comment . When “king” dismissive,y called the Osage women “blankets” it just crushed me. Firstly that the women were regarded as things or commodities , secondly because I have great admiration of the Pendleton tribal patterns and craftsmanship. But mostly because these women were seen as “blankets”. Also disturbing , the KKK parading through town, white supremacy pitting groups against each other w the “king”s of the world trying to control all of it.
Yes the „blanket“ comment turned my guts aswell, especially because of how easily he said it and how much of a nice native loving guy he pretended to be.. the contrast between those two sides of his character really jumped out in that scene.. and that it was all just natural everyday business for him…
This is a beautiful, well-balanced, critical review. Thank you. As a Black American, this film hit me in so many ways.
I read the book, and was incredibly disappointed that the narrative wasn't rooted in Mollie's POV and didn't, thus, center her as the main character... because in the book, she IS. It's Mollie's story, and there's so much suspense and heartbreak derived from seeing it from her and her community's perspective rather than the villain/white protagonist perspective... they truly did not know what was going on, who was doing it, and who they could trust. As it unfolded in the book I just GASPED when I realized who was behind the murders. It was a gut punch. Making Earnest the primary POV/lens character is a choice, and simply not one that worked as well for me as it did for others. It's cool that people love it. It was a technically fantastic film in so many ways. I was also struck by the same notable moments as you. But I really wanted a film that better reflected the lens from the book/true story, ie: Mollie Burkhart as the central figure. Just my personal feeling on it. I can only sincerely hope the movie brings people to the book, and Mollie's story. (and at least we have Lily at the heart of the film, imbuing Mollie with such depth and strength. I really hope she gets the Oscar.)
this was very noticeable and a disservice to the movie, she had the best performance, and was the most interesting character
I didn’t read the book, but I felt the perspective was definitely from her point of view, being a creature of her culture with all these foreign culture machinations swirling around her.
@@BRLaue you are probably able to empathize with her character a bit more but the entire story was centered around Earnest.
I read the book and entirely agree, but I'm going to go further and say that it focused too much on Ernest to the point where it felt like it was Leonardo Dicaprio took it as his chance to do a character study and show off his acting chops ( and his goofy underbite.) When I was in the theatre, some of the audience laughed at things he did, like he was comic relief. It wasn't supposed to be about Ernest, it was about Molly, and her family, and the injustice and corruption coming at them relentlessly from every direction
Probably the best part of Having Earnest as the POV was that we got to see the everyday network of people that exploited, robbed, and killed the ossage. While the book made the murders more suspenseful by hiding the culprit the movie was able to highlight how absolutely horrible the entire situation was.
If we’re talking about reverent scenes, there’s this one scene that I just can’t seem to get out of my head. It’s the whole 'Molly in her regalia praying beside the creek before the golden hues of the sun' scene. It’s just evocative & stunning cinematography imo. As a Native myself, it resonated with me. There's a lot of those beautiful moments in this movie. Great review btw, we made one as well, it’d be very appreciated if you could check it out. :)
-T
I really do love how this is probably the most accurate depiction of racisim isnt just torches and pitchforks.
It was just the most matter of fact, the funeral owner was in on it because of the prices he made them pay because of the money the Osage were getting, it was the police who were being paid off, IT WAS DE NIRO'S CHARACTER who learned their language and their customs to just lead them to slaughter for a quick buck.
Bro got let off a life sentence in 20 years for good behavior despite leading a mass murder ring.
I was born and raised in Oklahoma I 💯 learned about the Tulsa race riots from the watchman and I read killers of the flowermoon after I heard it was a movie in production . I had never heard of the Osage murders before then. So as a typical white guy who is trying to better himself I totally agree this movie was made to check myself just like you said. I’m sorry this is what it takes. We are trying to be and do better . ❤
I can respect you for those thoughts!🌍🌛🌞
"We are trying to be and do better"
Ionic the only people trying are white LOL. Really shows how diversity equals regression
It’s a good sentiment for you to want your people to do better for us, but honestly don’t get too bent out of shape about it. *You* don’t have to apologize for anything, because you didn’t do anything.
Raising awareness and being educated on past atrocities is really all you can do, aside from maybe food drives and charities.
I can’t speak for everyone in the Native communities, but I speak for enough of us when I say that as much as these past events have done a lot to wipe our carbon footprint off the map and nearly making us vagabonds at the mercy of the US government, it’s almost… cringe when white people have this mantra to shame themselves for their ancestors’ sins.
Y’all can help us make things right, and we are grateful, but in regards to atonement it should be the government’s responsibility, since they are largely the reason why we exist the way we do today, either fighting off oiling companies, unfair government regulations to erase our culture, or flat out separating our mixed offspring from their cultures entirely to where they have little knowledge of it whatsoever.
You need to remember that *you* are not responsible for *their* inhumanity. *You* are already doing right by us by learning about or history and cultures, and by extension bringing awareness to our very existence to people who would have otherwise not known or cared about our struggles. This will potentially go on to help us in the long run.
I, and many others, ask that you don’t blame yourself personally, but instead to project the blame to those responsible, and to just stay on the path you’re headed on of exploring our cultures and history to share with others, so that we prevent things like this from happening-if only for a while.
Did they tell you that the Tulsa riots started because black people killed a group of white men?
@@Blyegh ♥
Felt very sick to my stomach at times at how evil and vile King and the others were. Lily Gladstone is my favorite part of the movie. Martin Scorcesse almost tears up at the end, how couldn’t you?😢
This is a very emotional movie , especially when it's part of our history, and how evil and/or good they can be. How good people get taken advantage of, and they are still forgiving. That especially breaks my heart.
@@em2915 Definitely, it’s a true American tragedy.
The scene where Tantoo’s character passes is quite possibly my favorite death scene of any film I have ever seen. It was so beautifully done.
As a black man in america i too felt the powerful ending of the spirit of the Osage. I loved the scene of lilly going with her ancestors. This movie envoke alot of empathy for what happened to the Osage, and never was taught in schools to this day! I was enthralled in the movie hoping for each sister to live and justice to come for those who were complicit to the crimes. You were right i wanted to know how many were killed during the terror.
Moley was talking about the Tulsa Bombing after they Bomb their next Door
Neighbor, if they made that Movie about "Tulsa Race Massacre" do you think the Black Community
would create Tension if they show that on the Movie Houses?
@@leowashington8991 Bro, they create "tension" when they don't get their fries fast enough.
@@JDoe-gf5ozbro what are you talking about???😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@leowashington8991Of course my people will create tension, but likely not for the right reasons, and not in a way that's productive. We are a very lost people right now. It hurts to admit that, but it's true.
I suppose some may have the right intentions, but so many of mine are willing to sell their souls for a $, and not stand honorably.. Sad times - still.
@leowashington8991 nope because we watched the movie Rosewood and didn't have the urge to unalive anybody. Yall are safe on the physical plane. Spiritually...may the lord have mercy.
If I read the wiki correctly, the Native FBI agent was Ute.
I feel like this movie, like Oppenheimer, was going to live and die by the cast. The writing and the production will not glow if you don't have the right people. Glad to hear that Scorcese was to the point in how the violence was depicted, he's usually good about that.
Marvelous film, and an excellent review.
One of my best friends is Cherokee and lives in Oklahoma. She's talked to me about how she's not fully comfortable having to watch the film in a theater. She'd rather wait until it's at home and she can process things better.
I can't say how the general audience response in Korea because when I watched it there were like, only ten people in the theater...😢 Presumably Scorses fans and/or cinephiles... at least nobody snored or misbehaved, so that's good I guess.
What I can say is that I was surprised how it didn't feel so long! I felt like I was taken into that time period, and Lily Gladstone has such a magestic, powerful presence that was absolutely captivating. Maybe it's because I'm a woman myself or maybe it's the direction, but despite Earnest being the protagonist/pov character I found myself focusing more on what must be going on Mollie's mind, how she must be feeling right now, and how would she react when she discovers the horrifying truth about her husband. Not that I disagree with the choice of making Earnest, an accomplice to the crime, the protagonist--he was petty, pathetic, and terribly human. Essentially, Scorsese was telling the white audience that "you" could be Earnest, or maybe you are already Earnest. (Though the film specifically targets American white supremacy and white folks, I think broadly speaking anybody who has a majority status in their communities has the potential to commit banal evil against minorities intentionally or thoughtlessly.) And while most of the records (and the book) is based on FBI records and could have easily been turned the movie into a typical FBI-saves-the-day crime drama (which the movie itself acknowledges at the terrific meta ending), it didn't go that way. After all, the U.S. government itself is complicit as well, shown in the movie by forcing Native Americans to live in reservations, enforcing the audacious concept of white guardianship, and devaluing Osage lives (failing to conduct a proper investigation until dozens, probably hundreds, died) therefore enabling the very murders to continue. I agree with you that the audience wasn't supposed to sympathize with Earnest. Around the end of the movie when Earnest decided to cooperate with the FBI to be "with his family" and told Mollie how it felt good to "come clean," I internally screamed, "But you poisoned her! And you still wouldn't admit it!" Then immediately Mollie asked him, "What did you give me?(as in what was in the insulin?)" She knew. And he still lied till the end.
Not all white people are the same.
People were silent in Missouri. Just clapping at the end. I cried at the end. I personally cried when they mentioned leaving Missouri in the movie. The Ozarks are beautiful and I am so sad they were forced to leave. I know what was taken from them. I’m so sorry that happened.
I heard ofvthe Osage drama years ago.aboutbthe killings not surprise of the whites treatment to natives on the reserv
We need to get back to letting teachers show realistic movies like this in the classroom. I was born in the early 80s, and it was those few teachers who told you the truth that really had an impact on me wanting to learn more about the people around me. I learned empathy at an early age because of it. It made be a better man overall in life be knowing the actual horrors we are capable of.
My 8th grade history teacher showed us Glory and I thank her for it because seeing it at that age changed me and gave preteen me new perspective, yes I was traumatized but it was in the safety of a classroom with a teacher to help us process it so I was not harmed by seeing the movie and its historic violence recreated in vivid detail, it made it real for me showing me the raw inhumanity that the textbook descriptions sanitized, but most of all showing me who they were intimately, having me get attached to them and then watch them get whipped, endure cruel depravity, and brutally die violent deaths.
@@juliannehannes11 i remember watching glory also. We watched it in middle school. It was the first time I viewed an ending where the good guys died. I learned respect for veterans after that. And I'm African American who had grandfathers who severed. They never told me what happened but there were things they wouldn't talk about. I felt so bad for them but also I knew they didn't want to talk about stuff because they were battling what they had to do inside. They just wanted to forget the brutality and live life with peace for whatever time they had left
Just watched this in Oklahoma theaters, even though it was tragic events it was amazing to see a story about the Osage people in Oklahoma on the big screen!
I really liked your critiques of the movie. And personally I think Martin is one of the best directors for anti heroes cause he never tells the audience how to feel but shows the true evil inside the person
thank you for this honest review. this chapter in history needed to be reopened and i’m happy to hear that this film was respectful to the native perspective.
“Needed to be reopened “ jeebus Christ 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
@@alandbs329 pretty sure you know what i meant… 😒 most in the u.s. don’t learn about this atrocity or others in school or in their communities. a movie like this can bring awareness to incidences of racism, oppression, and violence, current and in the past.
@@kellydoolingThat person is just engaging in concern trolling. Everyone will know what you mean by this comment and people clearly already did considering the amount of likes you got for your comment.
I'm sorry, you had your moment with the ending spoiled by those people. It resonated deeply with me too. As a person of mexican descent reconciling my own heritage and recognizing our indeginous ancestry hit me hard by the ending. We are still here.
You have a whole country. The First Nation/Native Americans have small clumps of land.
@@a.jlondon9039 the whole country isn’t indigenous. don’t be dumb
@@a.jlondon9039 I'm not disputing that, but we do have major issues with white supremacy.
@@a.jlondon9039yeah not really the whole indigenous issue in mexico is very internal and external, like a good chunk of our population don't acknowledge their American Indigenous roots but would rather acknowledge their European roots. The Spanish in the americas did a good job doing cultural genocide in mexico to the point that some native tribes don't know their history or language and the Spanish pretty much created a caste system by race and ancestry, everyone at the top of the system were full blooded Spanish, the middle were half spanish , the bottom were slaves (blacks) and at the very bottom were the full blooded American Indigenous people. The caste system forever left its mark on Latin American so racism is very common within many latin cultures, my dad growing up pretty much was discriminated by his fellow Mexicans just for being American Indigenous and received racial slurs pretty much daily when he was in school. It got better since then but the Indigenous people in México face many issues that U.S and Canada's Indigenous people also face as well. So its very complicated here
Aztecs and other indigenous tribes lost their culture to an entire inquisition. Get over yourself.
The music over the opening scenes was totally awesome. Thank you Robbie Robertson.
I think Lily Gladstone could win an Oscar.
Why do people still care about awards
As someone who isn’t native, the mother passing away was my favorite scene in the entire movie. It was so peaceful and the sound was amazing in the theaters. It was such a calm sound and calm passing
I'm also not a native American, but it was quite clear to me that the three figures she saw were the equivalent of angels that Christians see when they die in movies.
Wonderful review. I was also struck by the lack of acknowledgement of the magnitude of the carnage and your insight about the banality of the evil that we need to be continually reminded of.
That parallel you made in the intro really helped put a piece of this film into perspective. Part of what made the movie's length work for me was the fact that it didn't make these moments of brutality just a flash-in-the-pan moments. Instead you're forced to sit with it as these events take place again and again and wanting something to be done. And then having to think what would you have done and what are you doing when you see events like these taking place in today's news?
Amazing review. Sadly had a theatre experience similar to yours. Its disappointing to see people refuse to think about what they're seeing.
Most people don’t think when going to the movie. They just consoom and eat popcorn
Thank you for this. I loved Robbi Robertson and I'm sad that he may not have seen this finished work. Love Tantoo. Haven't seen the film yet.
Really interesting insights. I thought you really hit the nail on the head with your comment about the compilicity. I think that's the glue that holds the film together and makes it so effective, and ends up making the catharsis you talk about so much more powerful.
I also thought your references to the interviews at Cannes were spot on - they are very illuminating. For me, what Scorcese said about the issues he was aiming to address being "systemic" and how the film was a "metaphor" really brought into focus how his chosen treatment of this particular Native story become the mirror held up to America you talk about - and made the complicity resonate well beyond the events in the film.
Geez I bawled multiple times during this movie. The montage scene at the beginning that shows native people assimilating to the colonizers’ ways of living was sobering already. My partner let me have time to dry up my face a bit before leaving the theater lol. I thought it did a good job of conveying how relentless and heavy it all was, I cannot imagine how it would feel to be indigenous, especially Osage in that theater. It was truly gut-wrenching.
It was hard to not see this movie as a psychological horror movie. Saw it once maybe the day after it came out and it still hasn't left my head.
It's a great film and by the end provoked tears of profound sadness mixed with rage. I immediately thought of my peoples' experiences in this country and the ongoing experiences of other peoples across the globe. I appreciate your review and nuanced insights. I take comfort in knowing that, as you say, the Osage are still here, despite all they had to endure, but that doesn't make the manifold injustices any more palatable or forgivable. We are living in a moment where many folks seek to ignore and even erase the past. We must not allow that to happen. The past isn't just a collection of incidents that happened, it's a force that leaves its imprint on us in our minds and bodies down to the genetic level. In many ways we are who we are because of the joys and struggles of kin and culture that preceded us. That we are still here is a testament to strength of collective character and will. It is also an opportunity to keep memory evergreen.
I would have loved more scenes w the ancestor guides , funeral rites etc I agree that scene w her ancestors really made a huge impression but more would have been great . Maybe directors cut later ?
Also re the ending scene - I totally agree that it shows Osage are still here , I peeped the young child running into the spiral dance on the left side of screen and being incorporated into the dance, the next generation taking his place ❤❤❤
I was shocking to see how many non-Natives, insensitive to the history. They were scoffing and giggling at inappropriate scenes of this movie inside the theatre. It really got under my skin.
Really?? I saw the movie in the Netherlands and everybody was completely silent throughout the entire movie.
I think laughing at the pure evil at some points is fine.
THIS COMMENT. Saw the film Saturday in a Toronto cinema. The audience laughed at all the moments that had me crawling out of my skin, just by the moment alone.
I want to watch it in the theatre again and hopefully experience this movie with a more appropriate audience. I was fuming
These yt teenager stood up at the end and said that wasn’t worth 3 hours. I had to hold myself back from cursing them out.
All people born in their country are natives.
I think if the film were shown from an Osage perspective not as many people would have connected with it. I think Earnest’s perspective was a good choice as it gave the audience a surrogate and through him we fell in love with Mollie and then watched him destroy her and her family. I watched this in Mexico with my Mayan husband who had no clue about the book and he spent half the movie expecting Earnest to do the right thing, basically up until he facilitated Reta being killed. I was pretty surprised. I think that was also the moment when the audience came to the realization that this wasn’t going to be a hero narrative. It was watching how even someone you start off rooting for descends into corruption and greed while dehumanizing his victims. I loved the movie.
I cannot thank you enough for your insights on the movie. As a french person who knew very little about this part of American history, I was so struck by the movie that I decided to write an essay on it as part of my MAster's degree, which is how I found your video. I think this relates very well to what you were saying about the fact that it also matters that someone like Scorses directed it, as I am not sure to what extent I would have heard of it if it was made by a Native filmamker unfortunately. While making some research, I found a very interesting book on memory-making through film called "Prosthetic Memory: The Transformation of American Remembrance in the Age of Mass Culture" by Landsberg. She asserts that modernity enables a novel type of cultural memory known as "prosthetic memory." This type of memory arises at the intersection of an individual and a historical narrative, often experienced in settings like movie theaters or museums. In this phenomenon, individuals not only grasp a historical account but also internalize a personally significant memory of a past event they did not directly experience. The resulting prosthetic memory holds the power to influence the person's subjectivity and political views and I think that it truly applies in the case of Killers of the Flower Moon, at least for me. Anyways, thank you again for this very rich video!
Man, I’m glad that Killers brought me to you. I love the insight and critique you provided here. But mainly you audio, editing and overall production on your channel is very solid. Salute to you!
The ancestors scene when Mollies mother was dying also touched me. It was so peaceful and beautiful, I really appreciate the moments in the movie that depict the Osage culture which I was previously not very familiar with. Also great review man ❤
I feel like indigenous film makers just making films with representation of their people just existing is a form of activism in itself! It is so beautiful to see authentic representation of people like you and to open other people up to that authenticity instead of stereotypes.
Im so excited I found your channel! Your setup looks and sounds amazing, too. We recently moved to Oklahoma, and I was in Pawhuska when I learned about this movie. My fam was enjoying bbq on the corner near the tracks, and the owner told us all about the story of the Osage people and how it was during filming in town. It was a really humbling experience to learn about the history (to quote Hamilton) in the room where it happens. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and perspectives, I really enjoyed this review.
I finally saw the film. Took me a while as I had to travel to a bigger town. I appreciate your insights and reactions, from a filmmaker, as well as an indigenous filmmaker point of view.
A theme that is really staying with me is of honesty and redemption. I feel that Molly was still open for a full confession from her husband, still held the flame for his living as an authentic human, even after he had done so much harm. I don't know that she would have taken him back as a husband, but she held the possibility of him telling all his dirty truths. To me, it speaks of a worldview where a person can commit great harm and still have the possibility of redemption. But the choice is in their hands.
Someone having the takeaway that this was an "anti-white" movies is infuriating but unsurprising. I greatly appreciate your review and perspective. The white complacency aspect is eye-opening
Definitely a tough movie to watch. I was very curious about how native people would view the "spiritual" scenes like the owl and the mother waking up to her ancestors. As a non native I thought they were some of the most interesting scenes in the movie but I know it's also a bit of a stereotype. Anyway, thank you for your perspective, I look forward to future insights.
I left the theatre feeling a mixture of sadness, anger and relief. Sadness and anger because of the pure disregard to life but relief because truth was told, some light was shed on these issues that needed to come to light no matter how uncomfortable, the truth was told. I am not native, and I can't identify with these issues that have plagued the natives since foreigners encroached upon this land, but I know empathy and I know charity. It was a different time back then and societal norms were very heavy on racism, bigotry and pure hate. I get that but the total disregard for life is something I just can't get past. My heart is filled with sadness for my native brothers and sisters, but I am also glad to see that this film was made with respect and reverence that it deserved. Thank you for your insight and review.
You raise so many important points. I have not seen the movie, but have read the book and researched the story. It is unbelievable that the deaths and the guardianships were so ignored by the community, and in fact, that so many people were complicit in covering up the crimes. I had relatives who were involved in the oil industry in the 1920s and 1930s in Oklahoma, so I am taking a more in depth look at my family history.
I am appalled at the treatment of the Osage people and wish that we knew and had learned more about this atrocity. Thank you for your review and you insights.
I watched it with some friends. I'm of mascalero apache decent so I made sure I explained before seeing the film it's based on true events. Let's just say we were all sadden at the end of the movie. I'm glad they were upset Ernest got out of prison. I myself went to bed in tears. You did such a an awesome job explaining the film, music scores, traditions, and your personal thoughts on overall film. Thank you! Aheeiyeh
Fantastic review. Just subscribed and shared. When Scorsese came on the stage to discuss what happened to Mollie it made all the brutality I had just watched fully hit me. You could tell how important this was for him to make and I completely agree with you on the film being a mirror. Once the film ended I just sat there in silence before I was able to get up and leave the theater. Upon walking out with my boyfriend I began discussing my feelings about the film and I couldn’t contain the tears flowing down my face. Again, amazing review as well as your commentary. I found it to be incredibly educational. 🙏🤘
Your voice inspires my sense that, as bleak as the particular tale has it, this quilt stretches across the continental. The well of similarly grim and incomprehensible simplicity lay all across this continent. We only hear about the powerful and once powerful Nations. Sadly, like the black farmers of reconstruction, small stands or utterly peaceful ilks were swept aside in a long-term rash of white genocide. What interests me from how you describe the film will be how more tales might emerge from the curtain of silent complicity our histories even now maintain.
Amazing film. I started doing so much research after. Just amazing how much we are not taught in American History.
Thank you for sharing this perspective. I feel I understand the film better now, and I appreciate getting a glimpse into it's reception within this community.
This was a great review...and a testament to any great film making. It sparks conversation and introspection. I myself have known a bit of this story, but never took the time to deep dive into it. Thank you for the perspective and sharing your insight. I enjoyed the movie myself, and Lily Gladstone is a treasure. As someone who has been to Tulsa to see the park dedicated to Black Wallstreet, I would love to see some kind of memorial dedicated to the the people impacted by what happened in this story.
As someone who enjoys the movies and goes frequently I appreciate what Martin did with this film and the fact that he was able to share this story to a larger audience.
Also.. If I hear one more comment about the "run time:" lol. Just sit down and enjoy the movie. Hopefully you'll learn something from it.
New sub! Greetings from Ireland! So glad to have discovered your channel. I really appreciate your review.
I just saw the movie and I’m now reading the book. I thought the movie was excellent in many ways. And Lily Gladstone was absolutely compelling.
The pipe burial ceremony was incredible, the Osage mourning how their culture would be changed / devastated by the discovery of the oil was incredibly wrenching and really set the context for the world.
I really wished we had seen more of the Osage world in general. The book explains how paranoia and fear gripped the community in a way that is not shown in the film.
The interplay of cultures was fascinating and I think there was a missed opportunity here. Mollie going to Catholic Church while also observing her own tradition’s spirituality, Mollie and Ernest getting married within the Osage tradition, and the naming of the children. I would love to have seen more of this.
I lived in California for some years on Chumash and Weott land. For white people (especially white Americans) I hope this film serves as a way in to learning more about the history of the land they now live on. There are so many stories right there.
It seems like the filmmakers have accepted the criticism with grace. I felt like that ending was Scorsese admitting his limitations in telling this story.
Really appreciate your review.
Thank you so much for sharing youe POV, which has really enriched my experience of the film. As a viewer from Portugal, me and my friends left the theatre really wanting to know more about the Osage and their history. There was also some context we had to go research after, because it's not explained exactly what indian reservations are and etc, so some references throughout the film were a bit lost for non-americans maybe. But it was a great watch and I absolutely loved every moment where we got to see more of indigenous culture. The final shot was a masterpiece.
Haven’t seen the movie yet, but the nonfiction book by investigative reporter David Grann, which I assume was source material for the movie, has much detail and historical background.
@@sallybrookner4158 thank you!
Me and my girlfriend watched this two days ago in an entirely empty theater here in Dallas, Texas, granted it was a Monday. It was one of the best films I think I’ve seen in a long time,… I definitely can’t lie, I missed a lot of the perspectives that you brought to light in this video. It was very enlightening. I still love and enjoy the film, but I’m glad for the new insight. I can’t help but agree, though, the citizens paranoia, interactions and perspectives of the Osage would’ve really helped properly contextualize what was happening to the community, and some idea of what it was like to live in that community would have been super interesting.
Such a fantastic review. Thank you! I really appreciate your videos and your perspective.
I am from Europe and watched the film last week. I know Native Americans now for 50 years. This review is superb and wonderful. The world is learning what happened to the Native people. And Scorsese wanted to watch the world not only Americans. This movie teaches the world to check on us. We have way too many cases. We need more films about Native Americans. I am still crying.
As someone who's from Brazil and has a very surface level understanding of Native american history, I went into this because I saw "Robert Deniro and DiCaprio". I didn't even know it was a Scorcese film. By the middle of it, I was in a lot of disbelief so many people were being murdered, that I had to stop to Google if it was real. And that's how I realized it actually was. It's a little hard to reconcicle how people were so openly evil to other people as a group and everyone knew and was okay with it. Truly unimaginable. I think that's why people may come out of the theater thinking "can you imagine if this was real?". It's truly appalling that people can lay their heads on the pillow at night ok with these types of choices, especially with so many knowing about it and not caring.
I saw the movie this past Saturday evening. The issues I had to confront were very difficult and it will take me a long time to come to terms with them. But as a moviegoing experience it was not difficult to sit through... it was never less than engaging, and was exceptionally well paced. I hope the run time doesn't put off too many people because it moves beautifully and is just as long as it needed to be. There was no padding. Thank you for your review, you've given me even more to think about, and I look forward to seeing the movie again with your perspective (and others' as well) in my mind!
You are amazing at describing your views and feelings on a a flick I want to see. You're very open and honest and so happy to hear your views. You made me think about a couple of things I hadn't really considered. Keep up the good work!
Your video came up randomly in my feed and I am so glad it did. I am British and grew up in England so I have never met a native American person ... but listening to your gentle and articulate words for 36 minutes made me realise I so wish I had a native American friend in my circle. New subbie. ❤
I have been following your reviews since Prey came out. You are my in my top favourite film reviewers. I am so thankful to have your insight and perspective. Thank you for all your work.
I'm a Brazilian, saw the movie in it's opening day and really enjoyed. But your video took it to a whole other level. I'm 24 so I don't really remember how was life before TH-cam. I say that because I don't remeber the last time that I saw a video that toutched me so much! Incredibly well writen and even more truefull. Thank you for this! Subscribing right now!
Thank you so much for this. The film has haunted me for days and your insight means a lot. Keep up the great, thoughtful work.
I saw it today. I thought it was great. Well done. Of course from the Osage angle would be absolutely amazing. All that said, Well done. Thanks for your review. I could go on about so many details that hit me. It was good to see Osage portrayed so beautifully in their beautiful blankets and clothes and in ceremony it seemed unscipted, rather improved which made it so real. Love the ansestor scene. So glad Lilly came to & left. Aye I could go on. I recommend watching this. How else would I have known about this history?
I would prefer to watch movies with grains of truth or possibly not the entire truth that capture the ambiance and the temperature of the period in history.
I hope that Scorsese makes more passion projects. Because people will go out to the theaters to watch them.
Regardless, this story is an important story to tell and there are so many other stories out there that deserve to be told on the silver screen by or with a large name attached to it. Merely for the reason that people will go out to the theaters to watch it like I said before. I have not seen this movie yet but I cannot wait to see it! History most definitely matters and I'd prefer to see more historical being made by Hollywood. Fiction of course is great.
I'd prefer deeper true stories to be told, especially about America. They are so many historical events that we were never taught in school growing up. There is so much history that hasn't been told that deserves to see the light of day! Thank you for your great review. I just subscribed.
It’s sad that our complicity is interwoven in our everyday lives. Every time we make a purchase, go to work etc we’re complicit in exploiting someone. I heard this story on NPR some years ago and was moved to tears. We have so much to atone for. Thank you for your perspective.
Are you a Masonic mindful master
There's this thing called self flagellation that I think you'd REALLY be into, look it up
@@thewisemanpaul I do not understand Dan T? self-annihilation, self-immolation, altruism, self-sacrifice, magnanimity, generosity, selflessness, unselfishness; ... What does that have to do with *The Mason Mafia and the business of Crime* Did you youtube look that up?
Thanks so much for your review. Loved it! Really astute and nuanced. I'm hoping this film will plant the seed for further education on America's colonial past
Wow, Elias, thank you so much for this thoughtful, emotionally real review of Killers of the Flower Moon. My heart goes out to you and all Native Peoples, the Original Dine of this land. It feels so good to witness you and your review and perspective. I saw the film as soon as it came out, alone, and wept hard several times through it watching the brutality of the ugly white men, their lies and deceits, manipulations, greed and cruelty. I was born in Comanche County, Oklahoma in 1952- am a white woman and know from my own perspective how white supremacy affected me and what that was like growing up there. Once I realized Scorcese had devoted himself to this topic I felt so relieved and appreciative, as an Oklahoman, though I knew it would cover painfully brutal events. You mentioned that Oklahomans didn't get much exposure about the Osage murders, yet somehow I have a visceral memory of it being discussed in my home. I think my mom would bring it up, and be spitting mad about it. So it was inside my home that we talked about it, and the awfulness of greed and those oil murders. We weren't a family of means, but we had some education for sure. I want this film to be on every Film Class List, to be watched by all Oklahomans- and all citizens of our country. Like you said, this is important history and we need to know it, see it, take the time to understand the utter shamelessness of the likes of William Hale, Earnest Burkhart - and the beauty and dignity of the Osage, but the living hell that the Osage were put through. I hope that you are inspired to continue to do your Art, Elias, in the ways that feel right and true to you. Signed, a white elder woman witnessing the history of this land and owning her own power in truth and justice.