The 64mm Burr Rabbit Hole
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ก.ค. 2024
- Are you in search of the perfect 64mm Grinder Burrs to fit your needs? This video is here to help you compare some of the top 64mm coffee grinder burrs on the market and choose the best for you. Shop Grinder Burrs: alternativebrewing.com.au/col...
We evaluate the coating, geometry, grind distribution and flavour profile across Filter Coffee, espresso and espresso with milk to give the most comprehensive look at all you have to choose from. Find the right burr for you and get the best brewing experience from your Grinder.
SSP Grinder Burrs: alternativebrewing.com.au/pro...
Timestamps:
00:00 64mm Coffee Grinder Burrs Comparison
00:21 64mm Burr Introduction
01:42 Compatible Grinders
02:31 Burr Coating
04:05 Geometry to a Grinder Burr
13:15 Filter Blind Cupping Results
19:16 Espresso Blind Cupping Results
24:46 Milk Blind Cupping Results
26:53 Summary to Assist in Shopping for Burrs
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Wow. This is the most comprehensive and thorough - what we have been waiting for - 64mm comparison.
And tbh It could have been way a bigger video🤪 had I had a few more DF64s and other burrs to test .. but omg I think I’ve found my limits lol
Yea man i was thinking the same thing. Thank you for taking the time to do all this for us Josh. Really appreciate you sharing your passion and knowledge with us 🙏🏾
Couldn't agree more. This was awesome. I'm learning and about to invest a lot of money, so glad I found this...
@@AlternativeBrewing well, when you reach 50K subs, you can run these tests 3 times (a day or a week pause in between, your pick) and let's see if your results are consistent or if there are jitters in the data set :) one run is not a big enough sample, you know...
Josh. Thanks for taking so much time to prepare a thorough and comprehensive tasting of the new rabbit hole of different burrs. This comparison of burrs for both espresso and pourover was very timely and helpful. Interesting that the Ssp cast (modeled after the Lab Sweet Ditting was the most balanced yet able to separate flavors.
Glad it was helpful!
So helpful! I appriciate the intro about how the grind districbutions are characterized. For my two cents, I tried the two SSP Red burrs along with the standard stainless steel burrs in an Option-O P64, and what I drink is medium to dark roast pour over or Chemex coffee. What SSP lables the "Red Espresso Burrs" on the box, but "High Uniformity Burrs" elsewhere were my favorite. I found with darker roasts the balance you describe made my favorite coffee. It looks like the SSP Cast burrs would be worth a try for my preferences as well.
Outstanding video! The most comprehensive I've found about burrs comparison. Thanks for your hard work!
Wow, thank you!
Gollie, talk about a good video. Thanks for taking the time to make this!
I've been really enjoying your channel--just found you a month or two ago and loving the content.
Awesome, thank you! and welcome 😀
Fantastic 🙌 thank you for being the first ive found to go through every burr and really compare them equally! Love the content, keep up the great work 😁
Awesome! Thank you!
This video offers so much insight, thank you for your efforts! Really appreciate it
My pleasure!
Great job on this one and thanks very much for taking the time to put this all together for us! It was very helpful! I'm getting ready to purchase my first electric grinder and have been thinking I need to choose which burrs first and then the grinder. Your grinder helped me narrow things down to 2 grinders one that holds 64mm and one that does not, but your video helped me confirm which 64mm I was leaning towards.
You're very welcome!
The conclusion was great. Definitely some nuance to the burr choices that aren't as simple as getting "better" coffee with better burrs.
Thanks so much!
What a great, useful video! I've been looking for something like this. Thanks so much for taking the time and taxing your tastebuds!
You're welcome 🫶
Well that video is something exceptional. I bet no else have gone to this much trouble and be so helpful to those looking into this topic; which isn't me but I certainly can appreciate it.
😌 Glad it was helpful!
Damn, you have my respect for going through this harrowing work, but please don't kill yourself in the process 😂 it seems like separating the filter/shots/latte tasting sessions could have been easier on your caffeine level. I enjoyed the video very much; we need a lot more like this to better understand the impacts of burrs and grinders. I think it would be useful to also compare normal espresso shots, but you will probably have to set apart some of the burrs like MP for such a test, as depending on your grinder design they just won't let you grind fine enough even if perfectly aligned. The turbo shots comparison is certainly useful too, but more classical espresso would also be interesting. One worry I have for filter is that dialing in each grinder takes much more time and a lot of brews, and is much more reliant on taste preference than following a recipe like espresso. I'm not sure how to tackle that difficulty however, other than staying with each burr set for weeks and find their individual optimal points for you. This is all just so much work !
I sometimes wonder if there would be a business in setting up a pop up cafe-like set-up with 7 grinders, all pre-dialled in and have a crew of invited aficionados taste all the burr differences. This would certainly be of extreme value to the more intense geek home baristas trying to figure out what grinder they prefer without having to spend 100k and test them for years 😂
That would be somewhere I'd love to hang out! 🫶 thanks for watching
Thank you so much for the efforts you've made! Very valuable sharing!
My pleasure!
What a phenomenal breakdown. Thank you for this amazing video. We all appreciate the hard work!
Glad you enjoyed it!
this was such an informative video. thank you so much for the work put into it!
You're so welcome!
Amazing work, comprehensive, easy to follow, definitely informed my buying decision. Well done and for sure subscribed!
Awesome, thank you!
Really impressive attention to detail. Fully awesome, I'm impressed and grateful.
Thank you very much!
Super well explained and helpful! Thanks so much.
You're welcome 😀
Outstanding analysis! Between your methodical approach and well-trained palate this is the best burr comparison video out there.
Wow, thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
Josh thanks for putting yourself in harms way to come up with such a great guide! I'm going to grab a 64mm grinder very soon and I was originally going to go with the SSP HU burr for mainly milk drinks but ideally have some filter / light roast options too. The cast seemed tempting from everyone's experience with them and you've confirmed this too, they'll be going in the order!
My pleasure 🙏
What a great, comprehensive review. Thank you for this
Glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing effort on this video and fascinating results - I am shopping for espresso only and even then a difficult choice if equally for milk and black
thanks so much!
Excellent work. Thanks for this great video.
Cheers 😀
Amazing thoroughness. Thank you so much!
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome, thank you very much for this informative roller-coaster. :)
No problem!
Glad to see my MP burrs did fairly well. You described why picked them up. Although the sweet labs seem a balance across the board
This video deserves a LOT more views. How much did you spend on this? Really awesome information man, love it
Thanks so much! 👌 Had a tonne of fun making it! I learned a lot too, which is always valuable. Thanks for watching
You are amazing, thank you very much and thank you for your big effort!
You're very welcome!
I was recommended the DLC Cast Lab Sweet by you on another video. Less than a week later and about 2 kg later, I have to say that this burr set is one of the best purchases that I've ever made.
I swapped over my old grinder burrs from my mazzer super jolly and with these cast lab sweet burrs, I've pulled some of the sweetest shots that I've ever tasted out of the Padre Daddy's Girl blend that I've ever made. I'm amazed at how good this is tbh. It's a ridiculous hack lol
Which video was it?
That's so awesome ! 🫶 😀 Thanks for sharing!
You are a crazy guy! Thanks for this Test ❤
😂 yep
It's just an explosion of emotions. Awesome video. Thank you very much for this Titonic work. I have MPs and am very happy with them for both filter and espresso, but I also want to try cezve. My MPs are good at holding seeds already in the first position and even from position two I like my cezve. I wonder what other burrs can grind for cezve?
The SSP HU's most certainly would. As well as Gorilla Gear 👌 Thanks so much for watching 😀
Wish I had watched this video before picking a burr (currently being shipped) but I’m so glad it confirmed my choice to get the HU as I like juicy espresso but more balanced drip coffee and it seems like that is indeed what the HU provides.
The amount of time and effort you invested to dial in 7 grinders is incredible, I ordered the ssp DS btw :)
Awesome! Thank you! Good choice 👌
Great video Josh and some very interesting results. Hope the caffeine buzz wasn't too crazy.
Thanks Frank!
WOW, OK, All I can say is, back in the day when I had a Sunbeam Conical burr grinder and the Sunbeam twin boiler, 3 way valve EM6900 (mk2, the original had so many issues, they gave me a free upgrade) I was able to make GOD SHOT coffees. When I would grind Sumatran Mandheling, and drink it with milk it would cote my mouth in butter, when I made PNG Sireni, (a crop that died many years ago unfortunately), everybody begged for more. The flavours were big and bold and I could taste everything. When I upgraded to a My Izzo Dual boiler Alex Duetto Mk3 and a Rocket by Mazzer mini with 64mm flat burrs, I could never get the same flavours from the same beans. A few years ago I upgraded the Burrs to SSP Red Speed High Uniformity (Well it was just called SSP Speed, but it looks like the High Uniformity, not the Multipurpose).
Yes, it has improved my consistency, but it's still not the flavours I crave. It's not me, I figured the Sunbeam had a slow flow rate compared to the Rotary pump in the Duetto, so I would do a long slow mains pressure infusion, it helped, but the real issue is the grinder. I think I'll buy a cheap and nasty conical burr to get the flavours of old. PS I now own a rocket R9 One, and I use pressure profiling to control flow. I can make great coffee, but I still can't get the flavours I used to taste. MUST TRY a conical burr...
Niche Zero probably?
This was awesome.....and hilarious! I was laughing as the rush started to take hold and the battle between over-caffeination and professionalism waged inside our good man Josh 😆😆😆
Serious gratitude for putting your body on the line for our obsessions mate.
As for the burr upgrade, I'm not sure this video is helping me out of the rabbit hole....but it sure was entertaining!
😂 Glad you enjoyed it!
Fantastic comparison and range of burrs. The only other set I can think of that would be interesting to compare is the Fellow gen 2 burrs shipping with the new Ode.
100% ! unfortunately Australia has not received their shipment of these, but as soon as I get my hands on them 👌
Thx a lot , save me a lot of time for choosing burr set
No problem 👍
Great review on the Burr.. Kudos!!
Thank you kindly!
I can imagine the cast would move up in the “clarity” when season with 15kg or so 😅, mine improved clarity as it seasoned but still regained that sweetness and body… It’s really the only burrs alongside the original Lab Sweet I really could with success use for both filter, espresso and milk based. My main issue with Italmill is that these are so inconsistent you can get a good cup with them and then followed up with a nothing cup in espresso (never fancied them for brewed) and I never found HU pleasant at all. I never experienced that with Cast & MP these just delivering consistent repeatable cups that doesn’t fall through the floor in one way or another like I really think happens with Italmill where these don’t integrate with the milk or end as bland nothing or gets one dimensional.
I really think you showed well how consistent the Cast is in its profile I would love to see it compared to 83mm cast when that comes out and the Mitzen burrs.
Wow, thank you for going to such lengths to put this together! I was surprised by how similarly the SSP MP and SSP Cast performed when compared to everything else. From what I had read elsewhere, I was under the impression that the MPs were this extremely unbalanced burr set when it comes to espresso, but this showed that they're closer to balance than some other burrs out there, especially if you're willing to play with the recipe.
You're very welcome! SSP MP would be my preference over SSP HU for espresso tbh - It is a knife-edge when dialling in, and it depends on what coffee you're using with what spectrum of the flavour profile you're targeting - however, SSP MP are 'multi-purpose' 😀 so work equally well for filter too, whereas the HU's would be great for a long-lasting set, mainly for milk-based or darker than medium Espresso only IMHO
I have the SSP MP for about a month now and while I can only compare to the titanium, the SSP MP seems to be a more balanced overall. Really quite happy with it and not planning to put back the titanium.
Hi there. What a huge effort!How about the cast burrs? Would you still chose them over the itamills or HU for espresso? Thank you
Very surprising results. What was your methodology for filter? what all tests did you do off screen? Did off screen testing match what you did on screen?
I'd put, using the order you have,
Three Italmill, HU, Gorilla Gear, Cast, MP
GG and HU are close. I'd say HU is more pleasant and more balanced but GG has more acidity, though not more than cast or MP.
Anyway, let me know!
Regardless, great effort on the video! Huge task. Kudos
@@ME-mf7xp hahaha never! Lol
Waiting for you to make the same video 😀😀
@@taufikramadhan9403 ha! I'll need 7 fellow odes or df64s or something. I have loads of grinders but not any repeats lol! Actually... I do have 3 df 64s (different models), a fellow ode, a g64, and the hb64... hmmmmm
@@LanceHedrick do it, do it, do it!!!! Double Dog Dare YOU!
These are my kind of videos!
that was amazing. well done
Thank you kindly!
Love it. For ppl who don’t want to fuf around with changing burs and make filter and espresso, the CS DLC could be a good middle ground it seems from this video
Thanks for such a comprehensive analysis
Couldn't agree more! thanks for watching 👌
So was it the v2 or the v3 cs dlc?
wow awesome comparison
thanks 😀
Insane comparison... I hope your day went okay after drinking that many coffees. hahah! Thanks Josh
Hahaha thanks for the concern! Yeah it was hectic but enjoyable.
Great! Thanks!
You bet!
after reflecting this review I think it is perhaps the best, particularly by its detailed explanation of different burr geometries.... very informative
yeah - sorry - i didn't put myself through this to sell burrs as much as I wanted to really break down what each burr set meant to coffee IRL 😂 sometimes coffee tastes so close - I'm too hesitant in forming a bias that I have to truly say something that's sitting on the fence. That goes for positive and negative bias. I rarely do sit on the fence though fwiw 🫶
@@AlternativeBrewing I just corrected my comment, very positively.. pardon me please for being so critical...
More than excellent 👍👍
Thank you! Cheers!
THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME! I finally found an affordable espresso machine. I have an X-pro s hand grinder for pourover... but want a motor for espresso... this was so helpful. thank you. How difficult is it to change these burrs?
Glad I could help! NOt difficult at all. The top of the Grinder comes off real easy - and then it's 3 screws on each burrs set 👌
I've been using a Lagom P64 with unimodal SSP burrs (the original actually unimodal brew burrs, not the current slightly modified multi purpose burrs) for a couple of years to brew only filter coffee. They've served me very well, but lately I've begun to find them somewhat too clear and thin bodies, and I've actually been using my 1Zpresso K-max much more.
I've signed up for Option-o's version of the cast burrs to see whether they will suit my current taste better.
Would love to hear about your experience with the cast steel 👌
Are you referring to the mizen burrs?
Thank you for youre amazing comparisson. Very helpfull indeed! Now WE would really want to know, which burrs are youre personal favourites with the Styles of Coffee that you enjoy the Most for Espresso and for Filter?
Thank you und best Regards!
Great point! I might have to put this in another video 😀
@@AlternativeBrewing Be Sure that we are unpatiently waiting 😃
What an effort!
thanks 😀 !
Wow, thank you very much for this video. I'm glad you survived all that caffeine! I recently bought the Cast burrs myself and I'm quite happy with the first results. However, I have a hard time to grind fine enough for lighter roasts. Burrs are already touching and the only two options I still have is to use another basket (currently 18g VST) or increase the dose (currently using 16-18g). I do WDT etc so channeling is not the problem here. Did you experience the same? Any other ideas to get to at least 30s for 1:3 ratio? Currently I'm more at 25 for 1:3 and far away from 1:2 in 30s. Will it most probably get better after seasoning? My burrs are perfectly aligned. Or do I have to stick to Turbo Shots and dial in at 40g in 20s? What preinfusion setting did you use in your test?
No pre-infusion at all. This might be the main difference. Certainly PI makes a huge difference to the overall time of the shot.
Sounds like the burrs just need to be seasoned though. In my experience with unseasoned burrs - shots always run wild until the burrs are broken in.
FWIW - I did not have a hard time grinding fine enough. Perhaps maintaining the 18g, or 1g over that in the VST basket could make a change to time.
Oh wow, this is EXACTLY what I wanted to see. Hands down the best review I've seen of all the burrs available for the df64. Honestly a little flattering too given that I bought the cast burrs and have doubted them a little of late. This review gave me confidence that it's all in the brewer still.
I didn't like the cast burrs.
@@BensCoffeeRants how much have you seasoned?
@@ahpadt I used them for like 4 months but did also have other grinders I was using. So they weren't seasoned. The Option O Mizen burrs seem better out of the box no seasoning required. I never noticed much difference for flat burrs and seasoning for conicals I think it's more important however for some reason maybe the ssp cast burrs need seasoning, because some people seem to like them and say they improve with seasoning. But I don't have patience for that.
One of the pure pleasures of watching Josh’s comparisons is watching him get a call wrong and joyously push through the video like nothing ever happened. If Josh was comparing one grinder and one burr set and making one cup of filter and one espresso, I’d still be willing to bet he’d only get the calls right a third of the time. And do it with gusto. And that’s why you guys are one of my three go-to for making final determinations on brewers and grinders and etc. Keep up the good work.
🫶 thanks so much for the kind words
OMG you are in my mind
You made this video on the right time that i am trying to figure out if i must get SSP burrs for my Super jolly or change grinder to varia VS3 or the the new(1 February) Fellow espresso grinder
You got this! I’m keen to check out the Fellow Opus ✌️
@@AlternativeBrewing As i have already the stock burrs of mazzer (033m), i am between cast and MP burrs, i drink light/medium roasts for espresso
I don't care for heavy body, but i don't want it to be totally absent
I hope that MP will not disappoint me at this
@@AlternativeBrewing Guess what
I bought SSP multipurpose and after some time they gave me more clarity, better acidity and a cleaner cup
Money well spend
@@wakeawaken430 that’s what I love to hear 🙌
Great informative video! Would you consider doing 83mm burrs?
Eventually! There’s not as many variations atm, and yes I would propose the same outcomes but would still like to do it 😁
Did you season all these burrs before hand? I didn't think the SSP cast burrs (with silver knight coating) was that great, just mostly got body out of them I believe. But apparently they get a lot better (more clarity) after a bunch of coffee (like 30lbs!?) has been put through them.
Yes for sure. - however I hadn't had any experience with Cast Steel Burrs leading up to this - and the amount of fines that came out of the chute when grinding from the CS burrs caught my eye a little - imagining less than ideal clarity from the shot - and in retrospect of the live test - the CS burrs never had the most clarity - always great balance of body with texture integrated with sweetness and acidity;
Hi Josh and thank you for this exhaustive burr comparison!
I have one question regarding the SSP HU burrs. I noticed that in the espresso test, they scored #1 as having the most body/texture/mouthfeel. But how big was the actual difference between them and the burrs coming in at #2?
The reason I’m asking is that I’ve just acquired a 64mm flat burr grinder (the Kopi Deva) which comes with - not Italmill, but Mazzer 64mm burrs. Coming from a Niche, I feel that the Deva does much to unlock flavours like floral notes which weren’t there with the Niche, but I am missing a more voluptuous mouthfeel from the Mazzer stock burrs. Which is why I found your take on the SSP HU burrs for espresso interesting.
Can you advise me?
Thank you for sharing your experiences with us, the viewing several. And greetings from Norway! 😊
Just to clarify, you're happy with the flavour of the current stock burrs but missing texture a little in the extractions? Before purchasing a new burr set - I would recommend perhaps playing around with Ratios, lowering the ratio may achieve this - or lowering the extraction temperature too as well.
I'm yet to be convinced my SSP HU tests are conclusive to its flavor Profile - as I'm yet to really played around with the way I brew with them. I've heard and read feedback from both camps on the SSP HU burrs - one side saying similar to what I find - "they provide a very classic full body espresso, not highlighting brightness too much , however without a lot of negatives either - so not a lot of bitterness, dryness or lifeless shots.
Then there's those who say the love the clarity and sweetness that come from the more uniform Espresso burrs.
To answer your question - the difference between #1 and #2 is not a lot. 1,2,3 seems grouped in that particular presentation - and almost a clear difference as a group, to #4 and so on.
Awesome video! Thanks!! Two questions. So how do you explain the high body in espresso with the SSO HU? These burrs suppose to give very low fines which should produce very light coffee as I see it. Second question is do you make from the cupping results that the cast steal burrs are the all round better set of burrs? Do they give best of all or just "OK' of everything? :)
SSP HU, I'm not sure I can explain this thoroughly. In my experience with side by side recipes, it never has anything but high texture and body - though, as stated in the video - I do believe these particular burrs require a different approach to brewing - to get the best out of them. Apologies - for supposing the burrs are no good in relation to the test - I know plenty of those who love these SSP HU burrs. I have to follow the rabbit hole a little more to unlock the full potential of the ones in particular.
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank so much ☺️
Love your content
That is, the simple stock burrs proved to be the worst for the filter? But how big of a difference is that compared to the difference they would make compared to a simple 40mm conical grinder ?
I saw other authors praise italmill and they said not to worry too much about ssp upgrade.
Great comparison video! Which version of the SSP Cast burrs were used here? Were they V1 or V2?
Would have been the V1s 👌
@@AlternativeBrewing Thanks for the quick response!
Hi, what about Ceado E6P? Do they fit to this grinder?
Great video! While doing your tests did you find that some burrs are not able to grind fine enough for espresso? I am having issues with my red speed LS burrs
So this is often the case with these style of burrs and brewing espresso. 1: there’s a period of breaking the burrs in. At least 2-5kgs at a fine grind, before it settles to be very consistent. Often this period of breaking in, you experience fast flows.
2: These style of burr produce a much higher uniformity of grind the default burrs - this means flow rate is generally faster. So adjusting HOW you make espresso, by working with the new faster flow rates, and brewing with a higher Brew Ratio like a 1:3, and /or using more or less coffee in the basket can achieve better flavour results on the espresso
@@AlternativeBrewing thank you for the tip!
Interesting the SSP CS fall right in the middle both times.
Very! This was my first time using any cast steel burrs and am pretty set on getting a pair now
Josh what would you think about upgrading the Gen 1 Fellow Ode between an SSP or the Gen 2 burrs? Personally I like alot of clarity in my cup and want go just go finer for things like Aeropress.
SSP MP Red Speed or Silver Knight would be the best for this - though they are expensive. - For half that the Fellow Ode Gen2 are an improvement on the Gen1s - though - on the flip side - maybe not a bigger enough improvement idk - I just got the Ode 2 recently - still trialling it out. Will let you know for sure 👌
I am a little confused about what you have said about the SSP HU burrs. You touched on they are still clear and still have sweetness but have a heavy body but it sounds like the heavy body masks a lot of the flavours or kind of muddies the flavours a little to much? Wouldn't you need to tweek the recipe for each burr to make the nicest tasting cup you can for each burr? for example, if SSP HU has a very heavy body wouldnt you want to use a shorter ratio or grind a little courser to open up the coffee? or even under fill the basket a little?
Yes - all true - and I do hint towards this in the video. The fact the burrs are so different from one another- there’s very little way to represent them in a relatable and easy to follow comparison - so I chose to dial them in to a reasonably simple recipe.
Perhaps I should revisit the SSP HU Burrs at some point to really explore more of the capabilities- as for now, with my understanding of them, they have not been able to brew with high clarity, sweetness or bright acidity - as HU suggests - but usually brew a great texture, depth and complexity.
Kindly need to ask if ssp red speed espresso burr set are compatible with ECM 64 manuale. If it is what would be your opinion aginst stock burrs on ECM 64
I believe they are compatible yes. As SSP mention ECM on their own website. IMHO ive never thried the stock ECM burr - but know a thing or two about stock products - and generally - they'll do the job just fine - however you don't get much better a burr manufacturer than SSP.
Thanks for the review. I must have missed it...but which of the burrs tested are considered to be 'bi-modal'?
Other than the SSP Red Speed MP burrs, all were a higher uniformity of a bi-modal distribution. SSP HU and GG having higher again than regular Italmill burrs.
Great video, thank you. Are the Cast burrs the ones similar to Ditting?
How are they for standard recipe espresso, not Turbo shots. (Can I even DO turbo shots in my PicoPresso?)
The SSP cast burrs are made in the tradition of the Ditting burrs yes. The cast burrs will do fine for any recipe, more so than High Uniformity burrs, - you'll just be adjusting to the right grind setting which will be much different to standard burrs. I found you have to go finer
You certainly can do a Turbo shot in the picopresso - just got to pump fast! 😂
@@AlternativeBrewing Thank you kindly for answering!
I have an Anfim Caimano grinder and got the ssp mp red coated titanium burrs but the holes dont allign properly with the ones on the grinder. Do you have any ideas as to why?
I had the same problem and ended up buying a new grinder 😅
Did you manage to find a solution?
Awesome test, I've had like 3 or 4 DF64s at once, and have compared MOST of the 64mm burrs but some like the Titanium and Cast burrs were at different times. I was under the impression the Coating shouldn't affect the taste/grind quality but I think people have been noticing it does actually affect things!
Is the SSP cast burr really available in DLC, or it is the SilverKnight coating (or are they the same thing?) I thought DLC was just Eureka's Marketing for a cryogenic hardening treatment or something.
Apologies yes, you are correct Ben - each manufacturer has their own wording to describe the treatment of hardening the surface of the burr. I cannot comment on whether DLC and Silver Knight are similar in hardness - trying to dig up this info on the net - though this most likely will have to come from the manufacturers.
The SSP Cast Steel Burrs - are in fact - of the Silver Knight coating 👍
Did you compare too the Itamil titanium with S Steel for espresso ? are really different for taste a'd clarity ?
@@tarekh1377 me? I didn't have the titanium and regular stock steel burrs in the DF64s side by side unfortunatly so can't really compare them besides from my memory (or lack thereof). But I remember really liking the results from my Titanium burr one and thinking maybe I liked it better than the plain stock steel burr DF64 (which I also liked). For the extra small amount some retailers charge to switch from stock burr to titanium coated one, it's worth it I'd think, but if you already have the stock burrs, they're good for espresso too. I wonder if the titanium ones would be better for filter coffee though! The steel ones weren't great there, but that's comparing vs SSP HU and MP burrs.
@@BensCoffeeRantsthanks, I drink only espresso and I have stock burrs I like them ! I remember I was close to add extra and choose the titanium burrs , but i thought i'm going to quickly change stock burrs for ssp, but at the moment i don't see it, i want a balanced espresso a body and clarity,Itamil are good for that the cast burrs can offer better, but what i see he is tricky and difficult to adjust for espresso like he is designed for the filter !
@@tarekh1377 I actually prefer the stock burrs to the SSP Cast burrs, but the cast burrs might get better clarity after seasoning, I didn't get much clarity out of them and didn't wanna bother seasoning them with 15-30lbs of coffee :O
Oh one possible advantage of the non coated burrs is that they should get seasoned quicker, but besides possibly with the SSP cast burrs I haven't noticed much change with flat burrs before and after seasoning.
Hi Josh. Outside the scope of this video, but do the 83mm version of a given burr taste better than the 64mm? I'm considering the DF64V, and the DF83. Similarly, would the Opion O P64, which seems to have better "permanent" alignment (after burr swaps, if that's actually possible) TASTE better than the DF64V?
And, I'm wondering whether the Zerno Z1 with supposed "Hyper alignment" lives up to the **hype**.
Truly, it's a forest of flat burr grinders out there, and I'm wondering how to get the most blatant flavor improvement over my Comandante. When I make a pourover (V60) or a Clever brew, I only rarely taste an amazing cup.
The best I ever had, from my MokaPot, was with coffee ground the day before at my local roaster. They use a Ditting, but have given inconsistent answers when telling me what burrs are inside.
My PicoPresso is almost always a real treat.
Hey! An 83mm version burr would not by default taste better than a 64mm version of the same burr - as the Grinders are still have variance with in them - notably - the size of the motor, RPM, burrs, burr chamber etc... so these will have impact on the profile of the grinder. I am yet to have any experience using the P64 unfortunately, nor the Zerno Z1, so I cannot help in with these comparisons ... yet!
I agree though - there are so many flat burr grinders to choose from. Whatever happened to the mid-range Conical burr? In this regard - I have been pleasantly surprised and enjoy coffee from the Varia VS3 Grinder, as it is a conical, slow RPM grinder given great results for price. Otherwise - I wouldn't suggest DF83 over DF64V if you prefer Filter Coffee - low rpm Filter coffee, along with the ability to perhaps purchase a higher uniformity burr set in the 64mm size is a much better option than the stock standard 83mm burrs, and there's not many options out there for addition burrs otherwise. If not thinking about upgrading burrs at any stage - than the DF64V still makes better sense with the variability of RPM allowing for more profile variance.
Does the roaster you source from roast Filter coffee by any chance? It sounds like they may only roaster an espresso style, as this would make sense why it tasted great in a moka pot but you struggle with filter brews. Filter brewing requires a very different approach to roasting, in order to be able to extract the nuances in the cup when it comes to brewing it 🫶
Amazing video! How do you think the new Gen 2 DF64 stock DLC burrs compare to all these?
Not sure - but I'm keen to find out
Also my thought.... DF64 Gen 2 - stock DLC or SSP HU burr set (for my daily medium-to-dark espresso blends)? I have good offer atm and I must make decision soon...
Can you use the ssp MP burrs for milk drinks as well? Can it pull of a 2 to 1 ratio and adequate create enough body for milk? I am hoping to be able to use my mazzer SJ to produce some nice shots for sipping that have complexity in the non traditional shot sense, but that could make a tastey milk drink as well. Medium roasted coffees.
Yes it can. THough I would suggest - you more likely to discover it does a better job at the nuanced coffee, and dialling in for Milk with 2:1 ratios may be more of a chore
Could the HU burrs on the super jolly improve the super jolly's shots from a clarity and complexity standpoint? It seems like they just produce heavy shots but maybe they have some ability to do this. I like that the lifetime of the burrs is greater with the red coating .
@@JuliusSP1 100% they will yes. If you're just using default Mazzer burrs, the the SSP HU will improve the overall quality of the coffee produced 👌
Would the ssp cast lab be the closest to the burrs on the Mahlkonig Peak?
Yes - it is meant to be such - though- I cannot say for sure - as I do not have a Peak side by side with it 😀
@Alternative Brewing What is wrong with all my espresso.. If I get called away/answer phone and come back not only is it not hot but so bitter I throw it down the drain. This happens when In grind with my 270wi or df83 v2? I am totally confused as I do not see this happening with my clever dripper? What am I doing wrong as I tried grinding finer and coarser but still if I walk away and come back it is terribly bitter..
ahhh - espresso does drastically change the perceived flavour as it cools. What you may want to try do is pull a longer Lungo style espresso - so less concentrated. This may help alleviate some of negative flavour your getting. As espresso is so concentrated - it only needs to taste a little off, to be really unpalatable. Alternatively try heating your cups or adding some hot water to the espresso - like an americano / long black 👌
God Bless Frank 🙏☕
hahaha 1000% 👍
Appreciate and enjoy the detail review. But is this very subjective?
I’m not sure about ‘very’ subjective as in I’m trying to subjugate my viewers- it’s subjective from the perspective your watching me taste and explain everything in order to reach an understanding - yet that result relies on my subjective experience of taste.
So what about the DLC burrs that come with DF64V? Good for espresso and filter?
Yes 🫶
ek43 higher extraction makes the best coffee with SSP Cast Burrs you get what you pay for
I bought the SSP MP 64mm Silver Knight from AB. Any reason why it’s not featured in this vid? And any differences in taste/brewing options compared to the red speed? Thanks!
Thanks so much for shopping with AB!
These burrs were the ones I had available at the period of receiving the 7xDF64s. There are many many other burrs left out of this video - 64mm Mazzer burrs, Gen2 Ode Burrs, Fiorenzatos own & so on..
the Geometry of the Burr makes a bigger difference than the coating in regards to the perceived difference of a burr sets flavour profile.
So wether Red Speed or Silver Knight SSP MP burrs, it’s relevant to the hardness of the burr - however both have similar profiles.
@@AlternativeBrewing somewhat. Don't underestimate the massive effects a large coefficient of friction can have on a cup!
@@LanceHedrick Care to Elaborate on what effects you have noticed from higher coefficient of friction? I bought a pair of Red Speed cast burrs from Sworksdesign because I kept finding forum posts about the silver knights potentially taking 30+ kilos to break in- but Red Speed appears to be higher coefficient of friction. If red speed generates more microfines, I'm afraid i might find myself a bit disappointed lol.
@@ME-mf7xp it's a video on burrs. Can you even blame me!?!
@@Zirassi haha I can only speculate but I definitely taste a difference. Ill *hopefully* be getting a laser soon and all can be known objectively
From my memory and testing, I thought I had a bit different results, but maybe it's down to how you brew coffee (next video you can talk about best recipes / brew ratios for each burr style maybe?) I didn't have my alignment perfect I'm sure, and I suspect some DF64s (or their declumper screens) behave better than others which can be a factor as well.
In my experience, I thought the Stock burrs were similar to the SSP HU burrs, just a bit cleaner / higher clarity which was more noticeable for filter than it was for espresso, the stock burrs would have too many fines, the HU burrs were cleaner and nicer when brewing coarser. The MP burrs took it to the next level, more clarity and slightly less body (also much better for coarser brew methods) but I didn't think the HU Burrs had much body, thought they were pretty balanced but leaning on the high clarity side, like the stock burrs.
The Cast burrs were pretty much all body and no clarity for me so it felt like I had turned my grinder into a budget conical burr grinder! But seems like you had a much better result with those. Middle ground seems like a good place to be! I'm thinking the difference might be if you had yours burrs seasoned, or the Cast burrs are more in need of a perfect alignment perhaps. I have the Option-Os Mizen Omni burrs which are similar to the Cast SSPs coming, so I'm hoping those will be better, but without needing the seasoning process.
align cast lab sweet make a big difference with uniformity,mine on ode before shimed the alignment is very bad.
@@JayLinItachi yeah I had them in a df64 but also had another set in a p64. I remember thinking they were about the same in taste with only slight benefits to going lower RPMs on the p64. I can't remember for sure but I thought maybe I liked them better at first. the df64 which I had the shop align when they installed the burrs and it might have been decent at first but alignment got thrown off (going by sound of burr touch) possibly from having a bunch of coffee end up above the top burr in the burr carrier. Not sure if alignment really stays in place with shims or might have just been a df64 v3 issue v4 might be better or just was a misbehaving df64 some seem better than others.
I have a theory if you start with a higher uniformity more unimodal burr when alignment is off you still get good results so that's a pro for the Ssp MP.
@@BensCoffeeRants how are you liking the mizen burrs now?
@@samwise2010 I still haven't gotten them! First batch was a little short for some grinders so they included a set of shims to make them taller, I opted to wait for the 2nd batch that didn't require shims, however, got impatient after another delay so I'll be getting the shimmed version SOON, and then the non Shimmed version later as well :D
@@BensCoffeeRants I have them and they are very yummy
Hello, thank you for your video. Could you advice me a grinder under 600 euros for expresso only please. I m so disapointed by the choice but i can t buy a niche it s too expensive for France with vat and fees
Eureka? These are made in Italy, so I only imagine they may be of good price within Europe?
@@AlternativeBrewing yes spécialita is at 400 euros, oro single dose 600 euros and xl 650
@@David-pn1bc Check the "turbo" as cheapest Eurekas 65mm.
I know I’m super late to the party, and I may have missed this in the video, but were these burrs seasoned before tested?
all good 🫶 yes they were all burrs that had had plenty of coffee run through them already
great efforts for a very difficult comparison. a question on the mill based drinks comparison - why not do that on a more common coffee to milk ratio such as 1:5.5 as in latte ?
Great question - I was worried it would absolutely wash out any discerning differences or make it more difficult to tell apart. There was some dialogue in this testing I cut out - mainly doubting the test - as, well - I've never done a test like this before and most importantly I wanted to ensure the Milk was at the same temperature for all cups - so it had to come from the same jug in pouring it.
'If' there's a next time - I'll see to increasing the ratio 👌 It's a really important comparison, one that doesn't get done often enough - always focussing more on the Black coffee - and I'd like to develop this test more - unfortunately, I don't really enjoy drinking milk - mostly avoid it - and the above statement - getting the milk at all the right temperature is a challenge
...and is caffelatte even more common than macciato? (here in Finland acually 3dl pourover and little slurp of milk is the norm)
How did Frank align the burrs?
With markers and alfoil for these test grinders.
I wonder, can labsweet ssp burrs really do espresso of super light roasts? I think Lance said for some coffeees he wished he could go slightly finer.
I've heard this as well yes. Though I have not tested this myself
@Alternative Brewing Okay. Thanks for the extensive review! They all look good to me. I like clarity but I also like milk based drinks. Maybe gorillas are the best for me?
@@sebaba001 Yea I'd agree with that 👌 Gorilla were good for this 👌
Can you explain to my engineering brain how the coating alone automatically would improve the results and not just durability? For example the red speed (anodized I assume) has a friction coefficient of 0.1 and surface hardness of 3500 vs the silver knigh (DLC) coating is 0.6 and 4000. I.e. Red speeds are softer and slicker. Only thing I can imagine is the amount of fines being affected by regrinding, due to the coffee sticking to the burrs more. If that is automatically good I would argue against.
Coating has the effect of reducing heat as well. So yes , creating less fines and grinding overall far more efficiently will create a more narrow grind distribution and better cup profile. It doesn’t take much to shift the profile when reducing fines out of the cup- as fines will usually make a a large proportion of the surface area during extraction.
What would the Mizen burrs be closest to?
I am curious too!
Would love to see the DF64V DLC burrs in the comparison. Very interested to know how they compare to the SSP HU burrs for milk-based coffees
Bro thank you for putting your health at risk for us Heere 😂 last time I did a coffee tasting I realised how intense this is, how was the headache?! 😅
Yeah I used to get headaches, and yes they were bad 🥲 now it’s restless sleep and dehydration 😂
Stock standard stainless steel set. That's quite the alliteration.
haha 😂 yeah I'll have to post the outtakes oneday !
I am really surprised that Itamil Titanium burrs are different and better than stock S STeel , maybe I regret for not add extra 40box and go for Tin
I can understand too, it's only the coating. But this does make a large difference to how the beans interact with the surface of the burrs. At a microscopic level, a better coating will heat up less and provide less friction and allow beans to funnel through in to the teeth of the burrs more consistently - rather than tumbling about a little more. When beans a broken up - every time there is a fracture of the bean - fines are created. So the less the burrs need to work - the get the beans to the final grind size - the better the outcome is.
What's the best burr for ONLY Aeropress and pour over?
SSP MP Burr Set by far 👌
@AlternativeBrewing I just got the Option 0 P64 w the SSP Brew burrs.
Perfect 🤩
Lot of effort, lot of time, but I wish you did a TDS test on these. It would help the viewers so much more, as you said each person tastes a bit diffrenet, and that would have been more objective, and perhaps even correlate your taste findings. But, much appreciated effort. Sadly doesnt help me much. Though, from your feedback, it sounds like people would lean to the SSP CS DLC
Great suggestion thanks so much! 🙌 in my lived experience - Ive never gravitated towards using a TDS meter for my approach to brewing a better cup. If it tastes good - don't change a thing - if it doesn't taste good - than 'how' does it taste ... under or over extracted, or both, and look to resolve. You are 100% right in that - a TDS test across multiple shots correlating data would have given a better insight in to which Burr allows for a higher extraction.
Why are burrs like this rather than crushing only? Burrs essentially shred cut crush. Would it be better to simply grab and crush, then the beans would shatter allong naturally weak fissures. Like iceberg lettuce, rip it apart rather then cut, that results in less oxidation and premature yellowing in lettuce.
There's ghost burrs that kinda work with this principle - then the insanely expensive Rolling Grinders too . . but for practical compactness and price - burr grinders dominate the consumer market.
@@AlternativeBrewing soooo. . This will be then next evolution of grinders then perhaps ? Lol
This video is the definitive compendium of 64mm burrs. Well done!