BJP-RSS have Talibanized Hinduism, Eroded India's Pluralism, Harmony and Rule of Law-Pavan Varma
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ส.ค. 2021
- Note: Due to a technical error, Karan Thapar’s mic is muted in this segment (34:20-34:45).
Please turn on closed captions for this segment.
The following is the question:
And in fact as a result - this is what you write in the book - of the BJP & RSS leadership.
‘The top BJP & RSS leadership have been complicit and conducive in seriously eroding India’s commitment to pluralism, religious harmony, respect for all faiths, civilised dialogue and rule of law.’ That’s a pretty damning thing to say.
In an interview to mark the publication of his new book ‘The Great Hindu Civilization’, Pavan Varma has launched one of the strongest criticisms of the BJP and RSS claiming: “The top BJP and RSS leadership … have been complicit and collusive in seriously eroding India’s commitment to pluralism, religious harmony, respect for all faiths, civilized dialogue and rule of law.” He says the BJP and RSS have “talibanized hinduism”. In the same interview Pavan Varma is also sharply critical of India’s elite who he says are both ignorant of and unconcerned about India’s great Hindu culture and civilization. He also sharply ‘attacks’ Amartya Sen and Romila Thapar on the grounds they do not accept that India’s great past is a product of its hindu faith and, therefore, refuse to accept the term hindu civilization. Finally, Pavan Varma is also deeply critical of Jawaharlal Nehru. In Varma’s interpretation Nehru’s understanding and appreciation of India’s culture and civilization was more romanticised than based on actual knowledge. He says: “Nehru’s view of India’s past was of dismissal and impatience”. He says Nehru showed “a deliberate disdain of Indian culture and specifically of hindu civilization”.
Join The Wire's TH-cam Membership and get exclusive content, member-only emojis, live interaction with The Wire's founders, editors and reporters and much more. Memberships to The Wire Crew start at Rs 89/month. / @thewirenews
चिंता मत करिए
तालिबान भी खत्म होगा
और अपने देश का संघ तालिबान भी खत्म होगा।
Chutia our vedic culture believe in polytheism and lslam believe in monotheism so don't worry for rss
Teri ammi Italian bar girl Antonia Maino bhi
@@Nikhil-jg4qk tum nahi hum khatam karenge.
Desh ka har woh janta khatam karega jo har dharm ko maanta hai aur har caste ko maanta hai.
Koi unch neech nahi.
We must thank you for Karan to bring this interview with pavan Varma.
If they are sitting in a country and calling the government bad their heads would have been h. nging somewhere in kabul. if that is not happened then they are not in taliban rule and they have freedom and hope people realize that
Pawan Verma is very right when he says Talibanism of Hinduism. He has rightly indicated the caste segregation in Hinduism. People ought to be intelligent enough to stop the divide by BJP.
You want to remove caste segregation? Remove the reservation, ban the caste based parties stop muslim appeasement and wolah you have a truly liberal India.
@@phanikishoreavadhanula8652 Good luck with that. The so called anti reservation party, BJP, just made such a big change to give reservation to more people by adding more to OBC list as per sstate requirements. And it was passed unanimously. So here comes Patel, Maratha and Jaat reservations. But to remove reservation people have to be treated equally also. And caste is a real thing in India. General public realize about that when we dont get admissions in the college or are not promoted in government jobs because we are not of SC or OBC. Other than that we are the privileged people who are never told what their caste is.
Caste system exists in all religions
Google pasmanda Muslims
@@jyotpurohit9435......THATS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU GUYS....THE MOMENT SOMEONE POINTS OUT SOMETHING NEGATIVE ABOUT YOUR COUNTRY YOU START ATTACKING THEM OR POINTING OUT PROBLEMS OF OTHER COUNTRIES, OR ATTACK OTHER RELIGIONS....WHY????? YOU GUYS DONT HAVE THE CAPACITY OR CAPABILITY TO ACCEPT ANY KIND OF CRITICISM,, LOOK AT IT WITH A VIEW TO ACCEPT ITS TRUE AND CHALLENGE IT TO CHANGE IT FOR THE BETTER
YOU GUYS GET ALL EMOTIONAL AND INSULTING.......ITS TIME TO BE HONEST WITH YOURSELVES, TO LOOK WITHIN WITH SINCERE HONESTY, AND TO ADMIT THAT THINGS ARE GOING DOWNHILL FAST AND ITS TIME FOR CHANGE
@@phanikishoreavadhanula8652
Only a fool would believe ending reservation would remove caste discrimination. Reservation is only present in higher education and govt jobs.
Go to places in UP without higher education and govt jobs , according to your logic such places have no discrimination , but is it so ??
Hinduism may not need a renaissance but the Indian democracy needs it - we need to modernize it to make up for its past failures...
👌👍👍 Very true.
We Indians need to keep religion where it should be. Indoors and personal. otherwise we will be the next Pakistan or Afghanistan but of different color
@@vijaykumaruba do you think Noises of mosque can go down and be personal.....and you can't speak of hindu culture in hindustan....
@@shubhamrathod6859 prayers from temple and churches can go on as well. you should stop putting "culture" and "hindu" in one line and say its about "hindustan". Hindustan, Hind, Bharat, India and many other names.... historically has been Hindu, Bhuddist, Jain, Sikh, Christian and many more we dont even know. everyone should have their own relationship to God
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
“The past has been there all along, reminding us: This time--maybe, hopefully, against all odds, we will get it right.”
― Leslie T. Chang
which past? whose past? where is north east in all this chest beating?
@@mohanamohan8726 Ask the descendants of the pre-independence and after independence India leaders/rulers.
"The most effective way to destroy people,
is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history."
-George Orwell.
"If history and science have taught us anything,
it is that passion and desire are not the same as truth." E.O.Wilson.
That Chang is... .?
This has been an unbelievably incredible discourse, punctuated with such intellectual vigor and human integrity, one would rarely expect to get to see. Absolutely awesome!!!
I agree entirely.Your words 'intellectual vigour' & 'integrity' resonate with the truth you your self stand for.
After Shashi Tharoor, we have Verma ji! This interview is shocking to say the least! I would turn around and say that Verma ji may be well intentioned ( I doubt it!) but he has inadvertently acted like a spokesperson of Hindutva ideology! India's ancient past had many influences! Whether you call it Hindu is a matter of choice. What about Indus civilization? What about dravidian legacy? What about the Lokayata? His critique of persons like Romila Thapar, Amartya Sen and Nehru whose interest in and knowledge of India's ancient past, I am sorry to say, even Verma ji cannot match, is mischievous to say the least. If these are the faces of india's liberals, then I am worried about the future of this country!
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
Well said
Indias future is in safe ✋
You are correct, Verma trying hard to justify hindutwa
@@jeyaananthana8577 Yes Agreed
Wonderful talk, very enriching for the present youth.
@Stallion Spirit true, they require a kick up their back,bloody CHAMELEONS
th-cam.com/video/0hPS5SXY0-g/w-d-xo.html
Afghan status
21aug 2021
@Stallion Spirit and how does this help the average Indian that lives on less than 5$ a day
Facts straight out of shithole by pavan varma 🙁
If they are sitting in a country and calling the government bad their heads would have been h. nging somewhere in kabul. if that is not happened then they are not in taliban rule and they have freedom and hope people realize that
Yes absolutely right BJP/RSS has Talibanize Hinduism. For me there's is no difference between Taliban & the associate organizations like Bajrang Dal,VHP,Durga bahini etc. of RSS having same Hardline approach to every problem.
Iss budho ko Afghanistan bhejo ek baar waha jake taliban ka khilaf krke aaye naajariya badal jayega bhaut gyan pel raha h
Yes.... absolutely
@@gudduyadav4003 the crew is apparently deleting my commnets...mate what happened to freedom of expression!!
Are my words stinging you!! 😐
@@HoneyBadgerz my comments too
Ek baat h the lire channel ko saare puncture putro ko inaam dena chahiye naam chhupa chhupa kar comments krne ke liye
India is a wounded civilization as no one has dwelled upon our past or taught in our schools---
If we had been taught all the past glories in our history lessons, we would have done so much better. Knowing you had a wonderful past, helps make a great future. We don't always have to prove anything to anyone then.
I agree mostly to pavan varma that hindu renaissance should take place, and the last part about BJP, I feel people are choosing hindutva as a political shield for hindu renaissance which they think is definitely required to face aggressive political aspects of Abrahamic religions in the world of aggressive islamist jihadism and church missionaries...As long as the Abrahamic religions behave in the same way as they did in the past...they keep feeding hindutva to the core....
If we don't unite and fight, we will just loose. And this time, it will be the end.
It's funny and telling that Mr Thapars 'Interrogation" stops when Pawans books agrees with his narrative.
While it was a very enthralling conversation, I can't help but notice the contrast when Pavan Verma was talking against the marxist historians, Nehru Karan kept on interrupting him, barely letting him complete his response but in the later part when the conversation steered towards the current dispensation Karan turned very docile, a lot less argumentative and repeating, garnishing Pavan's words after he uttered them. Unfortunate that journalists these days barely manage to disassociate from their bias, instead they proudly make it very apparent. That being said, never thought of Pavan Verma as a man of such great substance, very articulate and eloquent, he is being wasted in JDS, he deserves better.
We all know Pavan Verma as a well grounded bureaucrat, he now comes across as a scholar and historian as well. A person of his stature and eminence should hardly meddle with that great cesspool called Indian Politics. No political party, not just JD(S) deserves such a person. All parties together are combining their talents to spell doom for this nation.
Well, discussion related to Nehru was an interesting one because people had differing interpretations of the text they had read. What do you want him to contradict related to the current dispensation? There is hardly anything that can be argued in their defence. Minorities being lynched, journalists being killed, innocent people being put behind the bars and the list goes on and on. No person in his/her moral state of mind can defend the indefensible. Moreover, no person in this world can be biased-free just as you show your own bias by labelling him as Nehru Karan. One can be as objective as they want, but not 100% biased free.
Indeed. Karan is a horribly biased interviewer
Karan Thapar Sahab, allow me to share some hard facts based on my over 20 years of living in West. They have one excellent and outstanding quality which the colonies they ruled on, did not earn from them even today. So, let me state it in an explicit manner. The most positive thing about the Western culture is they "record everything in writing". It ensures the "liability" aspect in every day functioning of governments, institutions, healthcare and other services. It is also one of the five reasons for the West continuing to be among the developed nations, despite different ups and downs since Industrial revolution, WWI or Great Depression era about 100 years ago. Imagine from school days every school prepares its "year book and photos of its class and students are recorded". It shows the significance and at the root lies the need to record things in a documentary manner. It does not end at the building a record of growing school kids starting from their kindergarten records. Even the paintings, sculptures, furniture, houses, mansions, musical instruments such as piano, guitars, etc which they construct or build have the names inscribed at some location of the year, name etc. On the other hand either deliberately or otherwise the colonizers ensured this practice, if at all it prevailed, is destroyed which by design has favoured their rules getting strengthened in those occupied nations.
7:32
DOSTI BANI RAHE
Nicely done. Made me chuckle.
What an amazing civilised discussion,Its a viewer's delight to watch these type of thought provoking intellect dialogue exchange between two mavericks , which is actually at the verge of extinction coz of high decibel electronic media.Karan and Pawan you always set the bar high for peaceful dialogue and discussion.
Hinduism had always been inherently pluralistic in its approach towards everything and that's how we have such richness and variety of thoughts even on the most trivial aspects of life. An ideology which promotes authoritarianism and discourages dialogue can never aptly represent this great civilisation, let alone protect it. Thanks to these gentlemen for deliberating on such key aspects!!!!!
Wonderful talk, every youth should watch this.
We love RSS ..get education first mam...Communist is far worst
@@arkradhakrishnan157 Who is we?
@@advityat we is simple 40 crore Hindus( jain Buddisht sikhs ..RC ..Mus) who voted for Modiji and 10 crore Hindus who supported Modiji ..got it ? ..Thapa am from TN and belong to Malaysia Hindu tamil group we love Modiji ans Rss like anything ...you can create your own nation in Indian ocean if you want 😂😂😂😂
@@arkradhakrishnan157 I live in TN and they could not care less about your beloved RSS!!
@@advityat am from TN already got 4 MLA now and in Pondicherry we are ruling get education liberands ..Dai naan sollurathu puriyutha ????😁😁😁
Pavan Verma should be an advisor to the government. Karan as usual is one of the best we have. This interview has been so intense! Thank you both!
Hinduism has lot of tolerance. But not for Hindutva (BJP RSS)
They just pretend aa Hindu saviours for their own agenda.
But no Development in India
India Gdp is 4% just before covid in 2019 September.
If Mughals had ruled India like BJP then how cam they achieved 25% gdp ?? This is world Record.
Yes....
@truth
To your comment 3 statements are raised
Answering each one
1. RSS is not full form of taliban its moto is same as Taliban, all know what happened in 2002 in Gujarat, Delhi.
2.wire is Not publishing against Hindus
It is publishing facts which are in course against to RSS not Hindus.
3. Zizia Tax is 2%, while zakat for Muslims is 2.5%
That to Zizia is not implemented from Akbar period except period of Aurangzeb. Later Aurangzeb successors removed zizia.
I think Zizia tax is much less than current tax rates like GsT, Now we have much more types of taxes than those days.
Even In History more tax collectors are not Mughals
British India collected 50% tax in some areas.
So please go through facts.
Just because of that additional 2% no economy will achieve 25% share gdp in the whole world
Just common sense bro.
Study books like a bureaucrat. Not like autocrat.
@truth
1.I said read books like bureaucrat.
Not bureaucrats will definitely watch wire.
Stick to my point only.
Don’t assume you’re statements and don’t keep them in my Mouth.
2. What bad things exclusively Indian Muslims did ? Which No Hindu did?? To show on The Wire.
@@coptoxic excellent..... good and true.
@@parmesh1982 thanks for your appreciation Brother.
Giving due credit to hindu civilization would be to tell more about mauryas , cholas , chalukyas ,their architecture , the wars they fought their administration , promote classical dance and language and literature not to make Hinduism a semetic , bigoted and insecure religion . Renaming things to Deendayal Upadhyaya and Savarkar won't help.
i thought we did read about them in our history books and all the kids who went to school at least know these names ....
Perfectly put but still like a previous comment mentioned, we are taught about the previous empires,their wars, their administration and architecture.
(Atleast in CBSE & ICSE)
Edit: And in my school, we had option of choosing theater classes, alot kid took classical dances and used to perform at School events.
@truth the core topic of the entire conversation !
@truth so. What you are doing here.... And if unnave guts, go and report... .and last....don't watch , .go and see modi channel....zee. aaj tak.. ... Don't come here......
@truth are u ashamed of revealing your real name...or you and .u have more the .one dad.....??😀😀😀
Hazar salo se dharm ke nam par loot or ktle aam krne walo ko kbhi Islam se na jodne walo ne aaj ise hindutva se jod diya the lire sharm kro sharm
Past is past and it should not be discussed. Mughals and Britishers were won the land as much as they can win as not Muslims or Christians but that practice was in existence in those days. That happened not only in India but had happened in whole world.
Tell me something. Is a civilisation's greatness defined only by its external ornamentations? Sure, we have great literateurs in Sanskrit and other Indian languages. We have ancient architecture which exudes grandeur. Indians regardless of their political orientation and religion have acknowledged this every time. Taking pride in the aforementioned, is not something which is a priority in current times. Pride in India's civilisational achievements in various spheres of life was needed as a moral boost during British colonial era. Its purpose has been served, for now it has been over 75 years of a largely united, peaceful Independent India. Now, the focus should be on reinforcing the foundations of our modern republic, one which were laid down in the Constitution in 1950. Liberty, equality, fraternity - these values were borrowed from France and adapted to in India for a reason. It was realised by our so-called anglophile "elites" (which many today pejoratively refer to Nehru & Co.) that while an Indian national identity has successfully been established, it was now time to embark on a much more difficult project, i.e. to accord liberty, equality and dignity to the 'individual' of India. And this could not have been realised at all by harking back to these "external ornamentations" of our great civilisation, for its very greatness is also the product of unequal and discriminatory systems which had been ingrained as a norm to deny the individual his liberty, equality and dignity. That is why, it is necessary today that we reinforce the three aforesaid values of our modern republic, not by harking back to the past as the Sangh does, but by looking towards the civilisation that has achieved this to a considerable extent, i.e. the West. Looking towards the West for inspiration (or even the Far East for that matter) does not mean that our identity or our existence is under threat. It means, that to live a dignified life as an Indian, regardless of his/her background, one is adapting all that which can help him/her to achieve that ideal. That's all.
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
True but we r fkd 😭
the Indian ctizens are responsible for current mess and more which will follow. They remained ignorant thru generations and orange brigade used this ignorance of theirs to fuel their lust for blood, revenge and more power/greed.
@JUST ONE I never said that we need to talk to Taliban. But BUT-LICKING and BOOT-LICKING of USA must stop because USA and Britain is the creator of terror apparatus.
It is one of the most rational comment I have ever came across on india past, present and future.
Hatsoff
Wonderful experience based on facts and reality. Thanks thoper for this good talk.
I wish this conversation had gone for 2-3 hours!!
@Krishnapal Seth Haha
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
It is really hilarious. Karan Thapar and Varma giving us lessons ! Comparing BJP with Taliban ? If they are such fools, they should go and live with Talibans. Also should take their sisters, daughters and mothers with them. We will gladly welcome back them after 1 year and hear their views again.
Translet in punjabi or hindi jis se jin ki englis kamjor hi vo bhi samjhh sake asi meri viniti hia aap se Thank you sir
Hindi is language of crime infested poor states of India. Why do you want to spread violence & poverty? Punjabi is under attack from Hindi even in my Punjab.
I don't know why in India English is spoken more than Hindi are the ashamed of there language. In Punjab they all speak Punjabi mostly spoken many Punjabi know English but prefer to speak in Punjabi language same in Bengal the rest of India too much English not much Hindi is spoken
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
@sanyati khatri can you spell illetrates correctly mr literate
The debate doesn't hold much as it has been won by karan. He has argued here that the word "exceptional" being used in the context of Muslim rulers' atrocities - is unwarranted, and shall hold no ground when compared to world history. Vikings btw were quite an accurate reference.
Pavan rather could have mentioned that the lack of knowledge about world history is of no consequence here as India is unique in terms of its geopolitical history and that India had relatively higher degree of warranted tolerance and acceptance of newer, different faiths.
Although ground was lost by Pawan, the initiation of debate-specially regarding Deprivation of acknowledgement and regard for a golden post- is NICE.
For Europe afterall, the Renaissance did occur. They forgot to forget and started remembering, acknowledging and building upon the rich Greek history.
But Verma is a decent man and his critique of gang BJP is accurate.
For sure... But most of the people wouldn't agree with it. Reason is there prejudice against a group/community.
That's what leading the weakening of pluralistic culture of our country which will eventually lead to a lot of chaos.
@@muhammadsuheb286 Islam is Taliban's core
@@SAFFRONINFERNO @bey ©huT!¥@. J@@h!l.
What does Pluralism means? And who told you there is no Place for Pluralism in Islam?
Palestine is the greatest example. Palestine was conquered hundreds of years ago by muslims. Jews, Christians & Muslim lived there for decades in Peace & harmony following their own religion freely until crusaders conquered. Ye ilm lo aur apni jehalat me Izafa kro.
@@piyushgupta3858 True that. List also includes Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Dubai, Qatar, and so on.
Any doubt.
@@SAFFRONINFERNO Pls don't hide your identity,read Quran on your own (available in all languages) then you will come to know about Islam.
Thus is one of the most stimulating discussions i have seen in a long time. Many thanks for this. One question to the Indians here: does the sound cut out because of self- or fear of censorship? If so that is quite sad but somehow understandable in todays climate
Really great discusdion.It is highly knowledgeable and speaks of actions which ruling party should take.One thing i have understood that this great country must be led by people who have read and understood the true hindism and guide the nation.
And who is that Congress? Who says ram has no existance,Gita ND chanakya knowledge in army is communal😂
We have buried our past and never dwelled on it so we dont hurt the minority community-- the appisode of Banda Bahdur and GuruTegbahadur ji should be part of our history books and how brutally they were killed
The guest saying we must take pride in Kalidasa etc. sounds ironic when we have a society that looks down upon humanities, social sciences & arts stream, and STEM field is encouraged by every1 in all positions of authority (arent ppl abusing humanities & isnt funding for humanities research under threat?). Maybe including humanities subjects in STEM programs will help kindle enough curiosity in students that they'll read advanced/nuanced works about these areas in their later years & understand the deeper essence about certain topics in these areas.
PS: digging up & interpreting ancient texts abt vedic math comes under mathematical history, a humanities study area. Its easier for a linguistics major to study math for reaearching math history, than for a math major to study an entire ancient language for researching on same subject. Hence humanities > STEM for this example.
That's a really interesting perspective. I suppose India still has a caste mindset even when it comes to compartmentalizig vocations where there are "aboves" and "beneaths" and as a result of which we have few sectors that do well while others remain terribly under-developed like child psychology, management of civic spaces, environmental policies etc.
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
There's a reason that Rajju Ganit, sulba sutras etc were left unappreciated rotting in religion or sanskrit philosophy departments for so long even after independence.
It of course needs collaboration of language experts as well as math experts. One needs to give credit where its due. It has happened after Modi govt, that research grants and departments have been created for it.
It seems Humanities in India actively prevented serious research in this area.
Not 1 dedicated department to study rich Indian past and make documentris and knowledge around it. It has to deliberate as pawan verma also points out.
We must learn India is a multi cultured country , and diversity is so great , it's no doubt Nehru understood , the real fabric of this country is the intimidating approach of the people , to live side by knowing history in past , participate in every bit in terms to build India as a one nation . Nehru was a visionary personality , to smell the perfume .
Pavan Verma is articulate and assertive. He is entering in an academic field where Romila Thapar and Amartya Sen have achieved excellence. They are writing for public. Pavan Verma is bringing discourse of Hinduism once put forth by N. C. Chaudhari, a par excellence scholar of Hinduism. He needs attention like N. C. Chaudhari.
@@ashokrajpal8820
This is ridiculous. There was Sir Tej Bahadur Sapru snd do many other Hindus with titles. Every period has titles based on priorities. Now titles are being given to Hindus as Hindus by your logic in a secular country. The British were conquerors and they got support from large number of Hindus and Sikhs and Muslims. Identify them also not by just titles. Understand their scholarship. It appears your basis is hatred. It has no limits and no logic.
@@ashokrajpal8820
There were stooges of all religions helping the British. Read diaries if Jeevan Lal who got pension from the British as helped them during the 1857. History is comlex not to be divided on religion. You hate the British but as per their scheme of things. Liberate your mind.
No one has tried history of loyalty. Explore it. You will be surprised. Even now people are acting as Hindus even against laws and feeing proud. Nation is not build on such bases.
@@ashokrajpal8820
If religion is an European construct then you are suffering from it as your entire thinking is based on Hindu Muslim division. You will say it is a way of the. All religions claim so. How have you claimed that I don't know background of the Thapar family? You simplify and rush to hate certain persons and things. It is your way. Carry on.
I have worked on the history of loyalty and results are surprising. Religion has nothing to do with loyalty. Rulers cultivate loyalty for certain purposes. These persons carry and get rewards. Nothing more nothing less. Broadly, two processes are at work: help in administrative functions. Second, help in intelligence or flaring up communal passions. First is rewarded in public but second underhand. There were certain persons getting pensions from the British. They are now lionized as leaders.
Certain surprises persist. One was when a Muslim lawyer was blackfaced in the courts in Lahore in Pakistan a few decades earlier as his grandfather was a witness against Shaheed Bhagat Singh. Pakistan is an Islamic Republic and people did not spare a Muslim.. History is complex and serious discipline.
@@ashokrajpal8820
I don't boast. I know what are you concluding out of such a jargon. Again history is a serious discipline and exposes such messing up.
@@ashokrajpal8820
Loyalty does not need intellect. Even in modern times. Intellect is against the grain of loyalty. This is how nations degenerate as pigmies. More the loyalty, more rewards. History shows that loyalty stinks in the process.
Karan Thapar is a 'forensic investigator' in journalism.
He seems to be more knowledgeable on today's subject than Pawn Verma.
32:57 This social reform challenges the very existence of hinduism.
Varnashram dharm is the foundation of hinduism and slavery cannot be reformed it can only be abolished.
True
If u want to know hinduism Google Balinese hinduism which came from india shores 2000 yrs ago there also 4 varna they intermarriage and no untouchability in india thanks to foreign invasions hinduism not hinduism of past due to which others benefitted and caste system was used by ruling elites from thousand of years and even now to divide and rule
Didn't savarKar a Brahmin despise caste system and rallied against it doesn't hindutva say Hindus are a race I think hindutva is the renessaince
At 34:20 Why is Karan's question muted?
All kind of religious extremism hollows out the actual faith…Islam, Christianity, Hinduism all suffer from it …good talk 👍
🤯🤯🤯 it feels so nice to hear someone speaking same thing I believe
Pray why is the question at 34.21 silenced? 🤔
THE ANSWER THAT FOLLOWED SHOULD EXPLAIN FOR THE EDITORIAL/ CENSORIAL DECISION !
Read the description, it was an audio glitch. You can turn on subtitles and read what was asked.
@@roopspark9078 if the intention was to be censorious, it wouldn't have been included altogether. This wasn't a live session, it could have been easily cut in the editing room. Read the description, turn on subs.
@@ethanjohn7638
THANKS !
@@roopspark9078 no problem
I still think of my poor father (deceased) who pleaded with me not to go back to India. I went for a visit, and relived his words every day. Thank God i was able to return to Australia. I realised the fate of many Indians who seem to go unnoticed. India has been hijacked by the comfortable class, who are wealthy and oblivious of those who have less.
The question Karan asked at 32nd minute of this interview has been muted. WHY??
read the description of the video
"Note: Due to a technical error, Karan Thapar’s mic is muted in this segment (34:20-34:45)."
the art of engaging and illuminating conversation is alive and well in this most dystopian era of mainstream journalism. The Wire is outstanding.
But the host can't interrupt the guest every single time to stop him from finishing his sentence.
He does it in every episode and repeats his statements thrice to elongate a 10minute video to 40minutes.
@@nageshrajan5633 well, i think that's just the unique dynamic of a Karan Thapar interview. his intent for interrupting the speaker is only either to ensure the speaker is answering the question or to keep the speaker on point and not stray into an indulgent monologue.
41:33 This seems like such a genuine admission of guilt and I really appreciate it.
Yes
Does anyone know what question has been muted at 34:34 ?
This is the very reason I admire and believe Karan Thapar to be the most competent journalist of this era
>does thorough homework before interviewing the interviewee
>has adequate knowledge & grasp on the topic discussed
>'makes' the interviewee elaborate on claims they make loosely based on their own prejudice or interpretations
>never lets intervee dough from the question asked by justifying another wrong to prove his point
>precise framing of the questions with choicest of words
>abrupt spontaneous counter to contradictory claims
>achilles heel of the interviewee is very well pinpointed and struck if or when required
>does an interview only when there is a worthy topic and worthy interviewee to speak on that topic
N much more..
That's y ppl avoid getting interviewed by him as they fear from being left exposed and speechless
I'm on Karan's side, Nehru didn't look down on Indian civilization. Read " Kon hai Bharat mata, by Mr Agarwal, it contains Nehru's writings and speeches which are emphatic to bolster Nehru's fondness for India's civilization. However he unequivocally deplored some regressive, narrow, parochial, dehumanizing practices such as caste, unfounded superstitions and frivolous communalism.
India has to learn from Afghanistan. We are going a wrong way right now.. if we don't correct right now, we are heading towards a disaster. And all rational and peace minded people from both religions need to oppose all kinds of extremism.
Absolutely amazing talk. Loved it so much
Most beautiful thing...... 4 years ago, when u were hosting an interview with Pawan verma, u both were wearing same shirts, like u wearing today..
Amazing episode!
Great interview. It opened up my eyes and leads to a path which we, as Indians ought to take, to realise the greatness of our past. Excellent sir. Many thanks.
th-cam.com/video/0hPS5SXY0-g/w-d-xo.html
Afghan status
21aug 2021
The discussion is spot on on the talibanization of Hinduism. No wonder, in few years, if we start seeing the enforcers of Hinduism become moral police.
Karan Thapar you are balancing the current status
Hinduism was removed from Afghanistan, yes it is doing well.. Hinduism was uprooted in Pakistan, yes it is prosperous.. Hinduism was decimated in Bangladesh and Yes it is harmonious… Minorities are prospering in India, but Hindus are majority.. and that is the problem.. Sick of these guys
It is sickening. Guest is well aware of the glorious Hindu civilization but yet keeps defending Nehru knowing that Nehru sidelined all of these.
You can't build a republic on lies.
Civilisation is not all about buildings and monuments, but character of a nation. And religion is not all about performing rituals, but building of characters. If you want to judge a nation see their characters, and judge any religion see it's efforts on character building. Discipline is crown of nation and character is crown of religion, which completes the definition of civilisation.
Great discussion and very much required for today's time in India
Past is past you have to learn. from it and move on to the future.
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
A civilizations which didn't even have an name for itself LMAO.... The word Hindu is given by Persians which is the official name of the religion.
The great mauryan empire was an era of buddhist and Jain culture.
Absolutely truthful statements.
Cannot hear Thapar's question at 34:20. I take it, the administration had issues with the question? or is this just a mic failure.
May be mic failure..subtitles showed the text anyway
As a Pakistani origin, karan brings great programming thats enhances knowledge
As a Pakistani origin, he brings all that is rotten and treacherous that exposes him as the stooge of anti india forces.
Great interview
The entire discussion about civilization is superfluous , it's all about speaking truth, behaving ethically, having a scientific temper and possessing high degree of efficiency and integrity. Not the least being humane. This is all you require to grow, prosper, and progress.
This is the best thing that could ever happened to India. I love BJP and RSS, they are going in the right direction. Sooner or Later, greater things will happen either India will survive or It will be like Syria.
Verma very well knows where to dip his fingers to get to the sweetest part of the pie. His peachy mentors' must be double nodding at his dexterity in mouthing vexing convolutions. Kudos
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
@@sudiptabasu96 Parallel is far-fetched & untenable . RSS is essentially an introverted, self-preservative organization . It is benign. Islamist outfits, on the other hand, are malignant to the core .
@@PramodKumar-nb5gn It is a crypto-jews organisation formed by some chitpavan brahmins of Israelite descent. Kindly search in Google.
@@sudiptabasu96It's better not to spread canard & falsehood. RSS is doing well with the country, no issues for the mainstream.
@@PramodKumar-nb5gn mainsteam? lol.
I read Ramayana and MahaBharat in class 5 and 6th. Who's curriculum was that in 1985?
These are good books. I think everyone should read and understand this.
Ramayana & Mahabharata is not history.
@@raj2487 यह तुम कैसे कह सकते हो कि यह इतिहास नहीं है।
@@raj2487 idiot... They both are ancient world histories
@Stallion Spirit suv** No one is interested in mythology..... Why should anyone hv to read History as mythology...
Ramayana & mahabharat are history it has been told & retold thousands & millions of years, it will be in future also....
We Indians are not supposed to know about Shakespeare but do know about Kalidas, Dhanvantari, Shushruta, Chanakya and navaratnas of Vikramaditya.
Great Debate of the current stream of life in India. Notably, near the end there was an audio cut which underscores the essence of the fate of free thinking and expression in India today, under Modi Raj. Journalists & Original Thinkers are murdered and attacked in broad day light and jailed without bail solely because they criticized the policies and politics of the current Regime. "Talibanization of Hinduism today" kicked me hard on the neck. What is Talibanization to the Great Islam is the Hindutva of RSS/BJP for Ancient Hinduism. The parallel here is an electric shock to our brain!!! I hope Modi listens to this interview and understand the implications.
When in Rome, do as Romans do.
When in Asia do as your neighbours do.
Our idealism has caused immense suffering for a thousand years. It’s time to be swinging in between radicalism and idealism.
That is what is called मक्कारी and India is already suffering from it since last @2000 years.
In fact we need to get rid of it.
I suspect this may be a Bheja Fry moment Thapar wanted to enjoy.
I have always admired thapar for his articulation, alertness and involvement.
By any standard Pawan verma is below average speaker on Hinduism and anciet Bharat with only surface understanding on Hindu Renaissance or Decoloniality.
But then why would Thapar call articulate voices? He's smart right.
It would be truly nice to see Thapar in conversation with Rajiv Malhotra who started picking on firangi colonial scholars and Karan's favourite Romila Thapar.
Kanheman, in his brilliant work on cognitive psychology, explains how a largely painfree experiece leaves a bad memory if its climax is painful. Could it be that people like Nehru, Romila Thapar and Amartya Sen, who are from a generation that lived & experienced the painful end of a long struggle for freedom, tended to focus on the reasons why we were colonized so easily, rather than a distant past when our civillization had been very productive?
Why was stuff censored from 34:20 to 34:40? dear Karen Topper the entire question was muted?? Why? did you call Modi an idiot?
Yes yes
Actually I seeing future ram rajya like afganistan
Waqar Yunus do you want Talibans to rule India
What about political violence against BJP and rss in West Bengal, Jammu kashmir & Kerala
@@ishkumarkaushik7573 na ji na main to ye keh rha hu bjp aur rss yhi to india k sath Krna chahte
@@ishkumarkaushik7573 They already are..
@@Bbhai24 they are rulling party they can set law
There maybe some good things in past indian civilization like so many other civilizations in the world...there is nothing world beating about it...All religions and civilizations have had their time of golden age including so called islamic golden age.
But these old civilizations have numerous bad things in them when u do glorification of these old ages then ur feeding a ultra conservative right wings forces which would be destructive for progressive change.
WOW THE TITLE YESSSSSS
Why was it silenced at 34 minutes?
Very good one while the "past" part of the argument is still an argument, hindutva part of it is an absolute truth. Kudos
Kindly watch: th-cam.com/video/PyQQPqwIryo/w-d-xo.html
USA created TALIBAN and AL QUEDA in 1970's. RSS-BJP's rise to political power in India was heavily influenced/helped/facilitated by Pakistan sponsored terrorism, ISI-TALIBAN-AL QUEDA-LASHKAR-JAISH-TERROR axis. Pakistan sponsored terrorism essentially is US-Britain sponsored terrorism. This actually polarized India and paved the way for political subversion in India. RSS backed deep state got the benefit.
Mr. Thapar, this was one of your best interviews.
Without a shred of doubt. Completely agree.
all of Thapar interviews are his best interviews!
@@averagestudent5223 if you think the same about his interview with Mahua Moitra, you will forever remain an _average student_.
In democracy we must accept each other as who we are...not outcast each other
These are the kind of brains I love; whatever religion they belong.
When he said great mugal then everything is clear
Political party do it For VOTE BANK the wire do it for their VIEWERSHIP, Majority of their viewer are Muslim
@@navneetkumar5268 but majority of their employees are Hindus
@@ahmedsiddiqui9515 Hinduism don't kill of Apostasy..like ISLAM & They all are communist
@@navneetkumar5268 yet emotionally most insecure belivers...
@@ahmedsiddiqui9515 wherever there is Islam. There is death and distruction.
Two friends talk together after difference it’s call Hinduism, forgiveness and acceptance
Wonderful and knowledgeable discussion.Karan Sb and Verna ji we proud of you for your knowledge stateforward talks.God bless you.
Fantastic
What a way to diverge the attention. Kudos. Thanks for the awakening and helping your self proclaimed enemy.
10:20 - what a lame excuse. He is just being politically correct so that he doesn't get lynched by powers at center.
12:52 - Nehru has mentioned about Vijaynagar empire in Discovery Of India and goes on about the wonderful and mighty the empire of Vijaynagar was.
Video games like uncharted has their storyline from Hoysala kingdom.
Who cares about the book Discovery of India?? How many of them have time to read these books. The question is - Why these great empires and the correct history was never introduced in the Schools, Colleges and University text books. They always mentioned about the greatness of Moghuls, most of it is fabricated.
@@Plexushub2016 you have time to criticise Mughals but don't have time to actually go and read about them in detail. Shows a lot of about your inquisitive spirit !!! History is all about learning from different perspectives. In school your brain hasn't matured enough to learn about different perspectives. Though, partly you are right that such things should be taught at school level but only little can be done at that age. Not much can be achieved.
@@ageless1003 Exactly - History is all about learning from different perspectives. Did you do that?? Howcome you react when someone like me questions? I have read a lot about the history of Moghuls. Being a history student I'm aware of how convolutedly it was presented to Indians in School, college, and University.
As you said, "In school, your brain hasn't matured enough to learn about different perspectives" - My question was different - Please read it again to understand it correctly.
@@Plexushub2016 everything in world has pros and cons. Similarly, Mughals or Aryan civilisation in India has its own pros and cons. Being a history student yourself, you should have a balanced viewpoint.
Thanks for the clarification… pls tell me does the Discovery of India say anything about Chera Chola and Pandiyas of Tamil Kingdoms.. if yes, how much.. Thanks for your time..
300 mn Muslims in India and not a single protest against the fascist Taliban victory in afpak!!
Hey Wire, can you unravel this mystery????!!!
those who can watch this video full should be compensated monetarily for their time by Wire.
What Nonsense! Shame on you!
@@Mr551955 Don't worry I, did n't ask for compensation as I couldn't watch it fully.
@@vijaysoni6351 okay, sorry, I missed your point, my apology 🙏
Thank you, Mr Karan, for giving such a intellectual treat, especially for lay persons like us 👍 you braught out such a wonderful discussion on such an important issue, as always 👍 it was also very interesting to see interuptions from Mr Pavan Varma, when you pointed out, very rightly, the misconceptions regarding Nehru & ancient Indian culture, but over-all, it was ver very enlightening debate, It was great to see Mr Pavan Varma so candidly accepting the BJP-RSS undermining of Hindu religion. 👍🙏
He is right about the present. I agree with him
Every bhakt should watch this .
@Stallion Spirit every civilization has a glorious Time in some part of time , and this is not something new.
Mr. Pawan Verma is entitled to his opinion...like some may be entitled to their opinion that Pawan Verma has not criticized enough the BJP and Nitish for colluding if not being a mute spectator to the destruction of the very essence or ethos of Indian democracy. The new generation is not worried of the ancient India because they are trying to make a living and coping with daily struggles. Elites like you have all the time to specialize in this topic & write books...had you written this book during the peak of your bureaucratic career we could have better appreciated it.
Fantastic discussion thanks both.
It’s simple ,when everything become “Money” and life = Money then people have no time to think about past
Exactly what Karan said about the pressures of modern day living
So many years we have practiced Ganga Jamni tehjib, bhaichara with psudo minority , what is the outcome? Will any one of you dare to highlight?
During BJP rule in Gujrat two riots happened. Do any muslim displaced n settled in other part of India? In contrast Kashmiri Pandits couldn't be settled back till todate. Who is talibanised? Lots of materialistic sacrifice is required for being honest.
The Muslim rulers are gone. The Britishers are gone. The self-proclaimed “upper” caste Hindu has been in power for over 70 years. Why are Dalits still marginalized and discriminated against? What are the hypothetically labeled “lower” caste “HUMAN BEINGS” treated like they don’t deserve equal rights and respect? Which Muslim ruler is responsible for this “Hindu” suffering?
My dear fellow, the caste system did not begin 70 years ago, and it isn't going anywhere for a while. In fact, some of the best Hindu reforms were implemented during British rule. Amidst all this demonisation of the British, the Mughals and the Congress, it's rare to see a comment like yours on social media today. Unfortunately, we are dealing with a lynch mob, and Reason is not one of their strong points.