Dance is Ten and Book Mistakes (Podcast)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2021
- A Dance with Dragons is ten years old. Carmine and I discuss this and various book mistakes.
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Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. A Game of Thrones is one of the most successful television series to ever made and continues to captivate audiences all over the world. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil war among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter and the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
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looking forward for 20 years anniversary of Dance with this Podcast
Hopefully we get a TWoW release date by that point.
@Amber lol I hope I'm wrong, I'm way younger than him, but I have doubts about his urgency regarding this story.
how long does it take to publish a book once it’s completed?
@@viggstable305 idk, a few months maybe?
For book as hyped as Winds? 6-8 months
I can't believe how long I've been watching Preston.
I started watching him during season 3.
For real, when Season 2 came out, I watched 1 and 2, then read through book 3, then season 3 came out and I watched it right away (while I was reading book 4), then I finished the books. And then there was Preston.
Yeah I think I found him after The little finger debt scheme vids. Was just googling Littlefinger theories because I knew the next book wasn't going to be around the corner. Literally graduated college and still no book lmfao.
@@OurHourglass Are you me?
Me too omg
If Preston started his "Winds of Winter written by fans" project today, he'd still finish before GRRM
This.
He'd do it but the problem is that Martin/Martin estate would bring down hordes of lawyers on anyone who'd try.
@@unknownsoldier452 would they even be able to if Preston isn't making any profit on it? If that's the case, then fan factions should be sued left and right
@@asherfarrell1607 you still can't use intellectual property like original characters. Fan fiction is (mostly) tolerated, but it's not legal. The fact that they aren't making money from it doesn't change that fact, but it's mostly free promotion and pursuing legal action would turn a lot of fans against the creator, so it's tolerated.
@@unknownsoldier452 You think George has the drive to actually get up and sue anyone?
I feel like he wrote like 80% of the book and then accidentally deleted it/his hard drive broke and just decided to stop working on it.
Not likely sounds like the kinda thing he'd revealed to the readers.
He does actually uses a DOS computer with WordStar on it, so this theory is not unlikely at all 😜
@@UnknownGunslinger It's the most heavily backed up DOS PC in existence.
his editors all keep up to date copies as well
More likely he had most done in 2015 but didn't like it and threw the entire thing away and started over. It would explain why he thought he would be finished back then
Preston's bitterness is so palpable this episode.
It reminds me of the time he ranted against Raegar and absolutely held no punches.
What was the Rhaegar rant about?
@@auctor9165 Basically he said that Rhaegar was actually a POS by our modern standards and that we shouldn't just accept that he was a good guy because many characters say so.
@@ScamallDorcha Well he's kinda right. Rhaegar literally started a war and married or r**ed a 15 yr old. He's 100% evil yet everyone considers him a good guy. Makes no sense.
I first read and finished the series around 2012.. I was broke, living in a shity apartment far from home, had no tv and some times Internet.. The books really helped me get by and preoccupied my time through cold winter months with no heating... Only movie i had owned was liam nealsons "the gray" a terribly depressing movie about people being chased by wolves... I would put it on in the background for noise on constant loop all day and night while reading.
lol, listening to men being eaten alive by wolves on a loop...
I hope you're doing better now, man.
Hope you're doing better now man! Goes to show hard times are only temporary :)
@@idek7438doing much better now.. I Went from shitty jobs to unemployment, moving back home with my elderly parents, then onto success working multiple jobs, sometimes working a 12 hour day shift and then leaving to go work second job doing a 12 hour night, sleeping on bathroom floors, and on buses between jobs, no time to go home. I didn't mind, as i had no other alternatives. I'd still be living that cycle or worse, if my situation didn't improve by meeting the right woman.. She bought our home, we got married and now I live a pretty comfortable, stable life.
@@ansionnachdearg6306 Hell yeah! Good for you.
I feel like I became more invested in the "newer" characters as the books went on rather than Jon, Tyrion, Dany and Arya.
Your profile says it all :)
I wonder if Martin is tired of them too.
Agreed, Feast was my favorite of the books and that's mainly due to the POV's. Just super refreshing.
For real ! I quickly grew tired of Jon and Dany but Jaime, Cersei, Iron Islands and Dorne chapters are my favorite
I mean, I haven't read the books but I'm far more interested in Jon Connington and Alianne Martell. I know things about them I shouldn't, but still, maybe because I know the other characters from the show, I don't really care about them. Especially Arya. No, she just got boring for me and Jon is always so 'I don't want it' I'm disgusted.
"When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves only then will we have The Winds of Winter."
I’m sure in 2028 we’ll have a 10-year anniversary for “Fire & Blood” also and talk about how we’re still waiting for the next book to come out.
You really think George has 10 more years in him?
@@robertovaldivia1573 2028 is 7 years away
@@robertovaldivia1573 LMAO!!! Sadly, probably not.
@@jewsco4 yrs now😊
@@turtleanton6539 just proves we have zero chance of him finishing the series and at best we get the one last book
I've given up all hope for winds of winter, I've accepted that the series will never be finished. That way, it'll be a happy surprise if it does come out.
I remember getting to about 100 pages left in the book and realizing he had set up expanding story lines and had no way of finishing anything in this book and feeling abused.
This is why I won't read the books
@@JohnSmith-is4uu you either read the books and have no ending, or watch the show and have a bad ending
@@lifefindsaway7875yup not reading 1.8 million words of build up for nothing though. Crap show ending it is 😆
@@lifefindsaway7875 At least the show had an ending. GRRM cant limit himself to relevant plot lines, and thus the books become too large, unwieldy and unfun to finish.
The only way we will get the next book is if all of GRR Martin’s projects fail, noone buys his books, noone goes to cons to see him. Not likely.
Or he dies and his publisher publishes it post mortem. I dont want to wish death on him.
@@JohnSmith-is4uu the books are great though and worth the read as it tells such a bigger better story than the show
I’m still upset that the show didn’t just follow the books. The Dorne plot was so good.
Once they decided to cut faegon from the show they had no idea what to do with dorne.
What on earth was good about it?
@@jrbowler84 yeah have to agree I found everything with the Doran Martel’s and Oberon Martel’s children to be excruciating. Especially the daughter (princess of Dorne?) I HATED her chapters.
@@jrbowler84 it opened up the world and showed what places like dorne were up too and how much Cersei had no idea what was going on
Poor Dorne it did have chance in the show version.
The words you're looking for are Agnatic Primogeniture vs Agnatic-Cognatic Primogeniture! Good pod, thanks for the videos :)
Based and Crusader Kings pilled.
Hot take: Mance Rayder is actually Craster's son.
Bloodraven's grandkid
This is what I was thinking
He's supposed to be a son of a Night's Watchman and a freefolk woman. The Night's Watch killed his family and raised him as their own. That's why he's obsessed with Bael the Bard (who stole a baby and raised it as a wildling) and integrating the Freefolk into Westerosi society through interbreeding. He realizes the only difference between Westerosi and Wildling is nurture, not nature.
The real hot take is that's why he and Qhorin Halfhand conspired to radicalize Jon Snow.
@@Jooooger the reason he likes Bael and Dornishman's wife is he slept with Elia and Lyanna.
@@mistermaestersirthomas9164 Elia wasn't a Dornishman's wife though. She was a Targaryean's wife. Not quite as catchy of a song I guess.
i was literally playing ck2 while listening to this, the part where preston mentioned it got me
he’s watching you
Martin didn't even make a blog post.
I guess that means he's too busy finishing of Winds, right?
Right?
We can only hope 🤣
..... right?
....RIGHT??
Davos at the Merman's court and in the wolf's den are my favorite chapters.
at First i thought Davos at the Sisterman (Webbers) court was just a waste of time and pretty much out of place filler, especially when he was talking all about the false beacons (Fake Light houses) the sistermen would use to lure in ships during storms...
then i realized Stannis in his tower with his big fire, having his men fishing the lake, and then his plans to burn ASHA on the weirwood, he would swap fires, and the Boltons would march towards the wrong signal fire during storm and they would fall through the lake.
Kinda depressing it has been 10 years since the book. Damn I wish I was wealthy enough not to put out anything in my chosen profession for years.
There is also Val's eyes changing color from gray to blue. I don't why it is not mentioned as much, because it is much more interesting than Renly's case.
Honestly blue and gray eyes are basically the same. Here in Scotland more than half of people have blue eyes and we don't distinguish between grey or blue eyes, they are just blue.
Yup. Grey eyes are just blue eyes.
I'm actually very fond of Jon's chapters in Dance
One of the reasons is his interactions with Mel, they have a very nice chemistry
Same. My favorite bit is Jon’s response when he is called a traitor
Imagine still thinking GRRM intends to finish this book series...
George probably spends his time doing things that he loves to do. It is unfortunate that those things do not include finishing ASOIAF. I think he has lost the inspiration and doesn't like spending time in Westeros because it is impossible for him to hold all these threads and weave them together into something that he deems good enough.
All the pressure from the fans, the media as well as HBO when the show was still running disgusted him and left a sour taste. I'm sure he never envisioned the show would tell the story before him, especially since that collaboration seems to have ended as soon as the book material ran out and his involvement dwindled down to a credit on the intro screen.
The best we can hope for is that Winds comes out before he dies, there should be enough material to scrape together a sizable book. I don't see it being better than the first 3, but at least we could get some closure on a few storylines.
I genuinely think the tv show ruined his drive to complete the books, both because they passed him and because everyone fucking hated the ending
He literally can comb through YT for ideas. Ppl finished it for him
@@JohnSmith-is4uu And since ideas in themselves aren't copyrightable, and since it's hard as hell to prove copyright infringement anyway, he probably won't be sued by whichever TH-camr he poaches ideas from.
Very cynical outlook
We will get Winds but Dream will be a summary in a new edition of World.
Please do a video with all of these (minor) errors. They're so much fun to hear!
The fight scene between Barristan and Khrazz is just amazing. I love it. Dance is full of little gems
The biggest news here is that Preston has nearly finished his book. I was wondering what happened to that after thoroughly enjoying the released chapter.
I always felt like Jon's story was slowly marching towards Hardhome. And Cersei's towards the trial.
I don't consider it as a job for George he's essentially retired for me and just doing a passion project
Seems the passion got sapped out long ago
@@enderman_666 Indeed
@@enderman_666 he should at least have the courtesy to tell his fans he's not finishing the books. He doesn't have to, but to keep people waiting this long is ridiculous.
Its been YEARS since they were convinced George was intentionally waiting to release Winds until after the series was over
Ten years and ten pages into Winds of Winter
“The …”
Mind you he'd have needed to write 120 of the right words each day. I imagine he can write a thousand words or more each day, but will only end up using 30 of them.
I know that Winds of Winter probably won’t come out anytime soon, but I do take solace in the fact that there’s just a shit ton of manuscript pages that mean that some degree of the story is developed/completed. So there is content out there, but we’ve long past the point of hope for a nice and tidy book for it to come in.
I read all the ice and fire songs last summer. I can't even imagine what it's been like for the rest of you guys who have been waiting ten years for the 6th book to come out
The thing about waiting this long is
*Are all the friends we made along the way!*
George Martin is so impotent he can't even reach a climax in his own fantasy series
Tfw I just saw this title in my feed and thought "oh hey, new video!". And then I saw that it was two years old 😨
I for one, love everything in the North. Jon, Theon, and Davos... love'm.
I mean, reading Dance of Dragons and then watching Season 5, it is astonishing how different they are, its like two completely unrelated franchises.
Maybe the Winds of Winter is the theories we conjured on the way.
Ugh. Just take my like... Lol
And Dream Of Spring is our dream of a ASOIAF ending with a massive GRRM turd on it.
@@Hahaa99 Dream of Spring is my dream of a massive GRRM turd with an ending on it.
Agree with Carmine! Davos' chapter with Manderly and the one before that with the Lord of the 3 Sisters were my favourite from Dance!
I started the TV series and books in 2014, desperate for more now
15 minutes in "before we wrap things up" lmao
Chalk it up to Carmine’s incredible lack of charisma
WHAT A TREAT I'M SO EXCITED THANKS PRESTON
You think you have patience.
Sam's been waiting since 2005 to find out more about the Maesters, loooooongest Apprenticeship ever.
Jon, Dany, Tyrion, and Jamie’s stories are progressing toward a climax that coincides with the end of the story. Theon, Asha, Victarion, and Euron’s story arcs are building toward a climax that has to happen before the end. Their arcs have to be complete, or mostly complete prior to the overall crescendo, so they’re moving at a faster pace currently
glad to see we’re back to asoiaf (I know you guys can post whatever you want! I just like it the best)
It was funny to hear these mistakes and how to try to make sense of them. You should do more of those
If Winds of Winter is not written by this time next year, I will write it myself.
So how's the book going? =)
You guys done understand how much money is a motivational kick for the things we do. Once you reach a certain level of success, things slow down. If someone gave you 100 million, you may never finish you 9/10ths of a book.
My favorite chapter of all the books was the last Bran chapter. The moon, the knife… it’s what I imagine hell must be like. It’s so dreamlike and strange and awful. Everything is mystic and horrifying. I love it.
I think Jamie seeing Jane Westerling as a skinny awkward girl has more to do with Jamie's lack experience with women other than his sister
There's every chance that he brought up Jinglebell just to flex that he was the only one present who actually knows his genealogy.
I would love to have you Preston go over some of the more magical and world-building contradictory chapters the same way you dissected Prepping for Winter - those chapters would be Varamyr Sixskins and Melisandre at the Wall.
That isn’t how PJ thinks, but I’d be interested in listening too.
What do you mean by this?
George is more interested in entertaining himself and keeping himself surprised by plots that he started 30 years ago. So he creates more detail, rewrites chapters and plots multiple times, gives every character 3 dimensions and a hidden plotline. He's probably written enough for 6 books, but abandoned it all when the plot didn't go somewhere he found compelling after all these years. Which accounts for why he has to ADD so many new ideas and beginnings instead of tying them up in an ending. The last real ending he had in one of his plots was the Red Wedding. Which started a few new ones anyway. Hence the book taking a decade to "finish".
Please do a part 2 of you discussing mistakes this was great
Sam's not got craven blood, he a tarly. Fighting men
I remember finding the non-Arya Essos stuff all really confusing, especially everything to do with the camps and the siege. The style is so fuzzy somehow, and I couldn't always follow what was going on.
I think I'd understand more on a re-read, especially having watched Preston's videos, but all the other books and the other chapters were so much clearer.
Thank god Preston finally knows about the hips correction in later editions
I can’t believe after all these years Preston your still making videos. Haven’t listened or cared about asoiaf in over 5 years since George lost his drive and stopped caring. Guys enjoying his old age and his long awaited prestige and fame.
Davos and Lord Manderly when he delivers the north remembers speech was awesome!
We will never get the last page of ASOIAF... I saw George and Shae/Sibel the other day in a video touring his town in New Mexico. GRRM is a bottomless pit for tequila and queso.
Now we know the REAL reason why 😂
Shae survived her strangling to bang grrm
Id love some preston videos on jorah and bronn. Theyre both so mysterious.
Things we wanted and are scheduled to get: 1) Dune, 2) another Matrix movie, 3) another Boondock Saints movie, 4) A prequel song of ice and fire TV show, 5) a Silmarillion inspired TV show.
Things we wanted and aren't getting: 1) Winds of Winter and subsequent books, 2) a faithful adaptation of ASOIAF after season 4, that includes the Deeper Dorne plot.
Can't win them all haha
This was great. Thanks guys
Crastor's grandson, because Crastor is Gilly's father, so he is the grandfather to Gilly's child.
But that’s not Gilly’s son, it’s Mance’s.
@@seth410 Yeah, but Sam doesn't know that at that point in the book.
At least that is how I remember it.
But....baby swap
@@Anacronian then he wouldn’t think it was Mamce’s. Same problem different direction
"Distractions". Its his choice, no one is forcing him to do all these other TV shows and wild cards and what not.
Its his decision to go against asoiaf. No one elses.
Damn, I bought this book in my 1st week in high school. Ten years...
Jumping to grandson indicates that he is aware of the inbreeding involved with the Craster compound.
That is known
people have had 10 years to cope with the fact that Jon is dead and still haven't accepted it.
We thought of Ned as the Protagonist of AGOT and when he died people gravitated to the one Character with the closest connection to him. Cat-- uh I mean, Jon Snow... Obviously
I disagree about Jon's chapters, his (really all the northern POVs) were my favorite. Those were the chapters I would reread a lot.
I know this video is super old, but I'm bouncing between ASOIAF channels for theory content, and I really love your dynamic together. Thanks for having fun with the series and talking about your thoughts and opinions, and being understanding of each others viewpoints even when you disagree. It's really fun to hear people compare ideas without fighting or getting angry at each other for having different views/opinions.
Personally I always chalked up the Jeyne hips issue as Jamie being a man and not knowing what sized hips are actually "good for bearing children" since for the most part he really only cared about Cersei and her looks. Easily he could've been thinking her hips were small in comparison to Cersei's, which means next to nothing. Yes he does find other women attractive like Pia, but Jeyne is still practically a child so her development would still be going on and might look like just a scrawny/thin kid to Jamie vs Catelyn who is immediately thinking about her getting pregnant.
Technically if Jinglebell hasn't been officially booted out of the line of succession, Jinglebell is still in line for the throne and if he's not dead he could still get married and have kids. It's more like he's naming the rules, like jingle bell is next in line followed by his kids if he ever has any, I don't think Big Walder was saying jinglebell actually had kids in line after him. the crastor thing however is bamboozling.
That’s insane to think about…it’s also the same year I graduated highschool and I remember reading it the same time I was watching season 1…
Favourite chapter?
Melisandre 😁
Victarion chapters are funny af
Love theon chapters, his Inner thought process is brilliant, funny, sad.
His writing style (working as a gardener) is just not scalable for this size. Also, strictly speaking now he is at the beginning of the second book of the originally planed trilogy: Dany is still not heading to Westeros.
People misinterpret the gardener quote, he still plans ahead and maps it all out, all it means is that it's flexible. Plans change.
Its also very weird how the war galleys in the books have hundreds of oars. There were no galleys with that many oars in real life as there is no way to build a galley with 400 oars like King Robert's Hammer. This is also a mistake like the currency and the horses going inside the great hall of Winterfell.
Me getting excited that WoW will be announced in August only to then remember that it's already October, and the video is from over a year ago. :P
Here's my whole problem with the books: where are all the starks? In a system of primogeniture and patrilineage, there should I think be a lot more starks everywhere, but there seem to hardly any. Same with baratheons. And arryns. Maybe I missed these details in the books somewhere but it always confuses me.
Perhaps the Starks' lack of relatives might be due to the fact that Stark sons often choose to take the black like Benjen did?
I guess it is a little like in our world that since only the eldest son inherits Winterfell, the younger ones get to inherite minor castles or towns or even nothing at all. They're children then also get essentially nothing and become minor nobility at best. This is also the reason not every European is in the nobility even though a sizeable number are in some way decendents of Charlemagne.
@@akrybion no I'm fine with that, what I don't understand is why there aren't more people named stark, and the same goes for many other houses. They have lines that are supposed to stretch back thousands of years in some cases and yet we see hardly anyone in westeros with the same name outside their immediate family, freys excluded. It's probably just something Martin wasn't bothered with, having lots of distantly related people with the same name, as occurs in our world, but for all the time he spends talking about heritage and bloodlines you'd think it might have occurred to him that this is a bit inconsistent.
@@riro7674 Some houses get that treatment, there are Lannisters and Freys freaking everywhere but I guess he didn't bother with the starks beyond the Karstarks. It would be easy If he said the Starks mainly put out women or something so no passing of name but yeah.
Ten years ago today I called this book “We walked around and this is what we ate.”
I’ve been overthinking this so much for so long that I’m starting to feel that way all over again.
I feel like I remember being confused when I read the "Craster's grandson" line as well. Like you said, it was conflating Monster (Craster's actual grandson), with Mance's son, but the metaphor Sam was using didn't work, unless the idea of strength passing through lineage includes transfer from milkmother to baby.
RE: Big Walder including Jinglebell when he's discussing the Frey succession, maybe he's being sarcastic? I don't have the text in front of me, but yeah it seems like a mistake. If he never makes the Aegon/Jinglebell connection in the scene, seems like an easy slip.
Final thought: all this can be explained by the unreliable narrator framing. The characters themselves could have been momentarily confused, ha!
I really like Preston pointing out all these little inconsistencies and mistakes. The Craster thing is really weird and I remember noticing the "narrow hips" in Jaime‘s description of Jeyne Westerling. I'd say the Jinglebell thing is probably just hypothetical i.e. if everyone else died Jinglebell and his potential children would be heirs. I'd be curious why the timing of Wyman announcing he's going to Winterfell doesn't work out. It‘s true that the Davos chapter where Wyman says this comes before the Reek chapter where arose tells Ramsay that he's going to marry Arya at Winterfell, but then again, the chapters might not be in chronological order or Roose might have already informed the Lords of the location. If Preston has any more of these mistakes I think he should do an entire video on them!
Guess I'm not the only one that's given up all of the series finishing. Oh and the Mel chapter is the best in Dance!
I've said the following before. I was 20 when GOT paperback came out (1 week before ACOK came out). ASOS came out what 3 years later? I didn't know I was spoiled. After AFOC came out what felt like a decade (what 6 years?) I kinda gave up on it then. I reluctantly read Dance as it had new POV's (I eventually liked Quinten also), and I read it on a ebook reader as now I'm an old man and don't want to hold 1k page books. IMHO the 1st 3 novels were the best, The 4th ends good. The fifth book ends fun (for a completely new POV), and for the POV we know a giant tease (after 20 years). Love your stuff tho PJ
Thanks for the video
So Preston mentioned that the way show ended is the way George wanted it to end (other video) but because of the poor reception he is re-writing it?
Think the wait is long for us? Imagine how his publisher feels! Salivating for that big nut that just never….comes.
Only one more decade till book 6 is released!!! Yea
THE TALE OF HOW WE GOT HERE...
George: Secret squirrel shadow writer for tv show ending, based on his WoW draft.
Fans: Are we a joke to you?
George now looking at WoW draft:
. . . [Shrugs]
Oh well! Shredder machine go Brrrrr!
Agreed that the worst parts of the book were the Tyrion, Dany, and Jon chapters.
Tyrion on the Rhoyne was fun, but majority of the rest was dull.
I like all the details of the various mercenary bands.
There is a massive threat to war or battle in the Jon and Danny chapters.
Jon is dealing with a a very volatile situation, the nights watch and wildling and stannis’s men are at each others throats. The situation is building to crescendo to which a battle is instigated.
Similar situation with Danny, massive amounts of displaced slaves, masters with many patriarchs dead with much property stolen, trade is doing poorly for the lower classes as all surrounding cities hate Danny, and the book finishes with the battle starting at Dragonsbay, and a successful coup against Danny’s husband.
How long does it take george to write a book. How long does it take an addict to get clean
The Ryswell connection could end up being an interesting plot point … or it could end up nothing. Hoping for the former
I LOVED the dany chapters like omg they get no love. They were half the reason I got super invested in dance
Jaime does get corralled by Brienne into a trap at the end of his chapter.
12:37 Idk the jaime chapter told us that brienne was alive at the very least, and that she was prob working for cat
I picked up the first book in 1999…for the night is dark and full of terrors 😩
am i the only one who really like the jon chapters?
if i remember correctly kM hiatus were more related with health issues than procastination, keeping that in mind, he still was able to advance the storry at a preatty steady pace
I think it’s also just kind of easier to make a plane that can take off, than to make a plane that can land.
I donno i feel for him. It's taken me this long to write my dissertation. It's easy to get sidetracked. I had some medical leave, and i wouldn't be surprised if GRRM has too, albeit they probably don't make it public.
Exactly. Life happens, and getting things right is hard