Right on. So many grotesque and original pieces of imagery in this thing... from the backwards-headed demons, to the hellish fate of Anton Arcane... this book is a horror hotbed. While also being emotionally deep and insightful. Top marks all around.
@@L0NELYBRICK idk seems like their socializing could be sharpened, it comes off as awkward and unprofessional feels more like im watching two dudes in their basement rather than an actual show not to seem to critical though ,i mean the potential is there.Maybe a little subtle music spliced in the background to takes away the quietness of the show and bring depth to the images they show, and a little sharper rehearsing, i could see the views and likes rising substantially higher
@@JorgeGonzalez-mr8vu it's the casual relaxed attitudes that drew me to these guys, unprofessional is kind of the charm of the show, you feel like your watching two guys in the basement because they are two guys in a basement, the show is intended to be a conversation amongst friends and that's what they're providing. But it's not as amatureish as a couple of guys and camera, they improv well together, there aren't the long awkward pauses I've seen in truly amature vids, the picture quality is great, they have multiple camera angles, the sound quality is great and the editing is really good. What they are doing is putting a lot of effort into looking like a couple of guys in a basement while actually watching a very well put together show. As for music and all that other stuff, you could have it but it wouldn't add anything, I figure that's for things like comicstorian or comics explained, as it fits with what they're trying to do, they are trying to be atmospheric or add dramatic tension, whereas this is a discussion show more akin to something like the comicpop stuff. Actually yes, that's a good idea, go and watch Sals stuff when he's got a group together on a sofa, it quickly devolves, people talking over each other, off topic, people not talking at all, a fixed camera, long pauses etc. that is literally recreating the comic conversations I have with my friends, whereas these guys are recreating them in a way that's actually viewable as a show.
Used to live 9 miles away fom Northampton (the town which Alan Moore haunts), and I swear he grew fully formed from the earth of the town, an avatar of creativity and storytelling. Feel privelidged to have spent my early life within range of his magical aura.
Out of the superhero deconstructions Alan did, Swamp Thing is definitely his most unique one, as it's not really a deconstruction of a 'superhero' as much as it is a commentary on and reimagining of horror. Horror's not an easy genre to do, especially in the written form, but what Alan does so well is play with the old tropes of horror, as well as the horror that comes with identity, to craft a truly engaging and sprawling tale of identity and the true thing that scares all of us deep down: lacking control. I don't consider Swampy a superhero, and Alan took that and showed everyone that he wasn't really a superhero, and in his spiritual trilogy of superheroes that he did in the 80s, Swamp Thing lies somewhere in the middle of them, and like I said, it's most definitely his most unique deconstructions and it's one that makes you itch for more, almost like an addict. I think that's why Alan and his work has survived over the decades, because he's always playing with possibilities that you never dared to dream of and he's mad enough to show them to the world.
Just started reading this today and found your channel. What a fantastic book, planning on reading the rest and watching the rest of your videos after!
Welcome aboard Mr Wesker! We actually did a full on-Swamp Thing monthly live book club a couple years back where we did into each trade at length. If you're going through the whole series it might be worth taking a look at!
You say dated art, but I LOVE the first issues of Moore's run... The art is just so detailed and sketch worthy. I can just look at it and find new hidden things it's gorgeous. What are your thoughts on Marvel's Man-Thing? You guys should do a comparison of the two books and characters
We say "dated" more for lack of better term. It's definitely not a negative- but compared to modern or current art featured on the stands now, it has a very old-school look. Which fits the book terrifically. The sketchiness almost brings to mind a tree-bark like look, which is very befitting to Swamp Thing. And while I know of Man-Thing, I can't say I've read any of his appearances. Does the character have a note-worthy run to dig into?
Yeah, I was getting annoyed hearing Steve Bissette and John Totleben's gorgeous artwork described as 'dated', repeatedly. Even at the time, their artwork was different than anything else on the stands, so it's not like that artwork screams '80's.
James Seger we definitely didn’t intend the term “dated” to come off as negative. Just that it looks like something from the 80’s as opposed to today. There’s nothing out today that captures the look and feel of Swamp Thing, but I’d argue that Hellblazer, Sandman, and a lot of Vertigo titles has that look and feel. We called it dated, more for lack of better word. Plus- we each had about five beers by this point, so our vocabulary was weaning.
The art is timeless to me. Veitch, Bissette and John Tottleben are criminally underrated to this day. Along with Bernie Wrightson their art should be treasured. Like a visual representation Jimi Hendrix on the guitar, Zeppelin, Wu-Tangs Enter the 36 chambers, or Nirvanas Nevermind album. Just pure genius!!!
I remember reading this run as it was coming out in the early 80's. You guys have it made today. You can read it whenever you want. Imagine waiting for each issue to come out. 🤔
When I was a kid this was my second favorite character after Superman. There was something about the character that somehow just connected with me at that time.
I think that one of the reasons that make Moore a comic book genius is his ability to create is his works a perfect blend between image e text. While contemporary authors tend to make comics like movies or storyboards, Moore is one of the few creators capable of explore all the potencial of the comic book format, with images reflecting the text or sometimes deliberately contradicting it. This incredible ability is very much present in swamp thing. That s also the reason I think the almost literal adaptation of the Watchmen movie failed completely imo. Moore's best works (such as watchmen and swamp thing) were produced considering the specifc charateristics of the comic book format.
Scott Snyder’s Swamp Thing is quite underrated. I can’t say anything lives up to Moore’s Swamp Thing, but it’s a worthy followup. Even though it’s a bit held back from continuity and also bring back the man who became the monster.
Some Okie Dude yeah- I enjoyed Snyder’s run, despite the kind of rushed RotWorld crossover. I need to check out Charles Seoul’s run that came after. Also been wanting to read Millar’s version, and BKV’s.
I don't really find this type of art outdated but rather a lost art. The level of detail was unprecedented and could still hold up today. The detail itself isn't what fell flat throughout the years but rather the *style*. Sort of like those unnerving pics of like, Mario. The style is still kinda cartoony but almost photo realistic. But I dunno.
Well said- There's something about the style that is so different from what we're used to today, it gets under your skin. Everything just looks a little skewed and off-kilter. And the amount of detail is insane.
And if I remember correctly, we were super drunk when we filmed this on a whim during the early days of Imperius Rex... kinda been wanting to revisit Swampy.
Another great episode, and about of one of my all time favourite comics! I get the impression I'll be bingeing through your library quite a bit over the next few days... Re: the 'older' art, can you pinpoint the biggest changes between today's DC/Marvel art and the kind of stuff we saw in Swamp Thing/ early Vertigo titles? There seems to be a definite change I can't put my finger on, but only in the 'big two' or superhero comics; the indies or nonfiction works seem to always have been idiosyncratic, perhaps?
Swamp Thing is, without a doubt, one of the greatest. As far as the art style goes, I think the general analysis would be that today's Big Two artwork is cleaner and more polished. And that's not a knock on the Vertigo stuff at all... I think it's more of a genre thing. Whereas Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, and Sandman all had deep horror influences, they lend themselves more to a sketchy, more organic, earthy look. All these books had a "texture" to the artwork that is missing in today's work. That being said, I don't think this style would hold up at all in a mainstream Avengers, Spider-Man, or X-Men book, so I feel like it's a time-and-a-place type of situation. I think even Alan Moore realized this, as Watchmen has a more more clean, straight-forward look to it than his horror-centric work on Swamp Thing, or even Miracle Man (that one kind of blurs the line.) While the Big Two titles continue to have various "house styles" over the decades, I think publishers are taking more chances lately, with the success of indie titles and Image books, which have a range of different art styles. Something like LOW or Wytches brings to mind the art styles of early Vertigo titles, and I think Marvel and DC occasionally try to branch out on smaller titles, like Lemire's Animal Man, with art by Travel Foreman. If anything, I think a more simplistic, yet sketchy style is taking over, especially in indie titles. Artists like Cliff Chiang and Fiona Staples are topping the charts with good reason, and I feel like a lot of publishers are taking notice.
Imperius Rex Yeah, ‘polished’ is the right word! I thought it was just a question of lines (how many) but this older style is still distinctive from 90s Image/Wildstorm comics, many of them which had many ‘lines’ as well. I wonder if the sketchiness of the the early art has something to do with the lines being used for shading instead of borders, or the fact that they didn’t close out all the shapes, making it feel ‘unfinished’, if that makes sense. Of course, even Sandman had stories like Ramadan and Midsummer Night’s dream which are more acceptable to modern tastes, but Swamp Thing stayed mainly in the classic horror style, which works terrifically with the literate and ‘realistic’ fantasy it was.
In Troy's defense, I'm assuming he was bragging that someone was binging our videos (in which, we're happy to read!) not that you're bragging ABOUT binging our videos (although, I would brag about that as well... because I don't get out much... ;) ) Thanks for the views Jacob!
I have to stop most videos halfway through, but I really enjoy finding one on a series I have read. This is a great series. Still haven't read volume 6.
Great channel, but guys, why would you call the art "dated"? This is so much better than the digitally drawn and colored rubbish of today's comics - I don't want to ever touch anything like that. I don't know how can people consider today's stuff as good looking or even acceptable. But this stuff, it is pure art, it has much more value for my standards. And you have to work like really hard to find non-digitally colored stuff these days, we just lost it in the nineties.
Whew- we've taken a lot of heat for calling the artwork "dated." Let's see if we can clear the air a bit. Or drain the swamp... (no, let's stick with "clear the air.") By dated, we didn't mean it in a negative connotation. It was simply to say that comic books today don't look like this anymore. It accurately illustrates the Vertigo/DC supernatural style of the times (mid 80s). Most books today have a "cleaner" style to them, which invokes a more polished look. However, for a book like Swamp Thing, which should be gritty, rough around the edges, and unsettling, this sketchy-hyper-detailed style is perfect. No slight to the artwork of then, or today. Just pointing out that they are very different. Also- when we recorded this one, we were both quite drunk. I think we filmed four episodes before we got to this one, and were most likely on our 6th or 7th beer a piece. I remember we tried to film one more episode after this and it wound up unusable. So- not an excuse, but in our defense, we weren't in the clearest head-space. Had we known the views this one would received we probably would've paced ourselves better. Sounds like a good enough reason to revisit the series with a more in-depth discussion next year...
A lady never tells... But I’m no lady, so here: www.amazon.com/dp/B07PN9HCTC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_qLu5FbK44KVYZ Get yourself something nice. It’s the holidays. You deserve it.
Prince Namor shall hear of this treasonus treachery....you bed wetting surface dwellers have no right to claim the battle cry of the most valiant of Alantis's warriors. (Im not sure if marvel has a version of atlantis or if thats just dc with aquaman...but what eevves)
Man. You guys... Not funny at all. I laughed more during my last circumcision. Really. Take some advice and just discuss the damn comics. It's like you guys are laughing at inside jokes the audience isn't privy to. Honestly, if I had filmed this, I'd have been too embarrassed to post it. Like, watching it - I'm embarrass FOR you. Truly cringe worthy. Hats off too you guys at least for having no shame and not giving a damn.
I never thought a comic could scare me until I read swamp thing late at night.. this work is a masterpiece.
Right on. So many grotesque and original pieces of imagery in this thing... from the backwards-headed demons, to the hellish fate of Anton Arcane... this book is a horror hotbed. While also being emotionally deep and insightful. Top marks all around.
By Gawd… Drink another beer. 👶🏻
This channel is very underrated. Very casual conversations that are always fun to watch
Thanks Mage- glad to hear people enjoy it as much as we do!
Agreed.
@@L0NELYBRICK idk seems like their socializing could be sharpened, it comes off as awkward and unprofessional feels more like im watching two dudes in their basement rather than an actual show not to seem to critical though ,i mean the potential is there.Maybe a little subtle music spliced in the background to takes away the quietness of the show and bring depth to the images they show, and a little sharper rehearsing, i could see the views and likes rising substantially higher
@@JorgeGonzalez-mr8vu it's the casual relaxed attitudes that drew me to these guys, unprofessional is kind of the charm of the show, you feel like your watching two guys in the basement because they are two guys in a basement, the show is intended to be a conversation amongst friends and that's what they're providing. But it's not as amatureish as a couple of guys and camera, they improv well together, there aren't the long awkward pauses I've seen in truly amature vids, the picture quality is great, they have multiple camera angles, the sound quality is great and the editing is really good. What they are doing is putting a lot of effort into looking like a couple of guys in a basement while actually watching a very well put together show. As for music and all that other stuff, you could have it but it wouldn't add anything, I figure that's for things like comicstorian or comics explained, as it fits with what they're trying to do, they are trying to be atmospheric or add dramatic tension, whereas this is a discussion show more akin to something like the comicpop stuff. Actually yes, that's a good idea, go and watch Sals stuff when he's got a group together on a sofa, it quickly devolves, people talking over each other, off topic, people not talking at all, a fixed camera, long pauses etc. that is literally recreating the comic conversations I have with my friends, whereas these guys are recreating them in a way that's actually viewable as a show.
a tip: you can watch movies at Flixzone. I've been using them for watching a lot of movies recently.
I’m on book 6 of the trades now & the entire series has been absolutely incredible. Perhaps the greatest comic ever made.
So good.
Agreed on all levels. Severely underrated
Used to live 9 miles away fom Northampton (the town which Alan Moore haunts), and I swear he grew fully formed from the earth of the town, an avatar of creativity and storytelling. Feel privelidged to have spent my early life within range of his magical aura.
My word... imagine what must be hanging in the air around those parts.
Out of the superhero deconstructions Alan did, Swamp Thing is definitely his most unique one, as it's not really a deconstruction of a 'superhero' as much as it is a commentary on and reimagining of horror. Horror's not an easy genre to do, especially in the written form, but what Alan does so well is play with the old tropes of horror, as well as the horror that comes with identity, to craft a truly engaging and sprawling tale of identity and the true thing that scares all of us deep down: lacking control.
I don't consider Swampy a superhero, and Alan took that and showed everyone that he wasn't really a superhero, and in his spiritual trilogy of superheroes that he did in the 80s, Swamp Thing lies somewhere in the middle of them, and like I said, it's most definitely his most unique deconstructions and it's one that makes you itch for more, almost like an addict.
I think that's why Alan and his work has survived over the decades, because he's always playing with possibilities that you never dared to dream of and he's mad enough to show them to the world.
Just started reading this today and found your channel. What a fantastic book, planning on reading the rest and watching the rest of your videos after!
Welcome aboard Mr Wesker! We actually did a full on-Swamp Thing monthly live book club a couple years back where we did into each trade at length. If you're going through the whole series it might be worth taking a look at!
You say dated art, but I LOVE the first issues of Moore's run... The art is just so detailed and sketch worthy. I can just look at it and find new hidden things it's gorgeous. What are your thoughts on Marvel's Man-Thing? You guys should do a comparison of the two books and characters
We say "dated" more for lack of better term. It's definitely not a negative- but compared to modern or current art featured on the stands now, it has a very old-school look. Which fits the book terrifically. The sketchiness almost brings to mind a tree-bark like look, which is very befitting to Swamp Thing.
And while I know of Man-Thing, I can't say I've read any of his appearances. Does the character have a note-worthy run to dig into?
From what I hear the first series, by Steve Gerber original run, and the 2008 Dead of Night series are the best.
Yeah, I was getting annoyed hearing Steve Bissette and John Totleben's gorgeous artwork described as 'dated', repeatedly.
Even at the time, their artwork was different than anything else on the stands, so it's not like that artwork screams '80's.
James Seger we definitely didn’t intend the term “dated” to come off as negative. Just that it looks like something from the 80’s as opposed to today. There’s nothing out today that captures the look and feel of Swamp Thing, but I’d argue that Hellblazer, Sandman, and a lot of Vertigo titles has that look and feel. We called it dated, more for lack of better word. Plus- we each had about five beers by this point, so our vocabulary was weaning.
The art is timeless to me. Veitch, Bissette and John Tottleben are criminally underrated to this day. Along with Bernie Wrightson their art should be treasured. Like a visual representation Jimi Hendrix on the guitar, Zeppelin, Wu-Tangs Enter the 36 chambers, or Nirvanas Nevermind album. Just pure genius!!!
I remember reading this run as it was coming out in the early 80's. You guys have it made today. You can read it whenever you want. Imagine waiting for each issue to come out. 🤔
When I was a kid this was my second favorite character after Superman. There was something about the character that somehow just connected with me at that time.
Do you happen to be host to body fungus, or some other skin infection?
Zachary Pettigrew Good one :-)
I think that one of the reasons that make Moore a comic book genius is his ability to create is his works a perfect blend between image e text. While contemporary authors tend to make comics like movies or storyboards, Moore is one of the few creators capable of explore all the potencial of the comic book format, with images reflecting the text or sometimes deliberately contradicting it. This incredible ability is very much present in swamp thing. That s also the reason I think the almost literal adaptation of the Watchmen movie failed completely imo. Moore's best works (such as watchmen and swamp thing) were produced considering the specifc charateristics of the comic book format.
Scott Snyder’s Swamp Thing is quite underrated. I can’t say anything lives up to Moore’s Swamp Thing, but it’s a worthy followup. Even though it’s a bit held back from continuity and also bring back the man who became the monster.
Some Okie Dude yeah- I enjoyed Snyder’s run, despite the kind of rushed RotWorld crossover. I need to check out Charles Seoul’s run that came after. Also been wanting to read Millar’s version, and BKV’s.
Imperius Rex I’ve heard those were good. Soule’s Daredevil was amazing!! So I’ll definitely read his Swamp Thing run.
You guys should do an Alan Moore month lol.
That... is a fantastic idea.
Imperius Rex sorry for the spam comments lol.
I don't really find this type of art outdated but rather a lost art. The level of detail was unprecedented and could still hold up today.
The detail itself isn't what fell flat throughout the years but rather the *style*. Sort of like those unnerving pics of like, Mario. The style is still kinda cartoony but almost photo realistic.
But I dunno.
Well said- There's something about the style that is so different from what we're used to today, it gets under your skin. Everything just looks a little skewed and off-kilter. And the amount of detail is insane.
I agree, Long fan of Bernie Wrightston. Brilliant artist.
I have watched this video 3 times. You guys laughing and talking about comics makes me happy. Thank you.
Warms our hearts to hear Juan, thanks!
And if I remember correctly, we were super drunk when we filmed this on a whim during the early days of Imperius Rex... kinda been wanting to revisit Swampy.
And then I just remembered we did a 6-part live book club on the entire Moore series.
Another great episode, and about of one of my all time favourite comics! I get the impression I'll be bingeing through your library quite a bit over the next few days...
Re: the 'older' art, can you pinpoint the biggest changes between today's DC/Marvel art and the kind of stuff we saw in Swamp Thing/ early Vertigo titles? There seems to be a definite change I can't put my finger on, but only in the 'big two' or superhero comics; the indies or nonfiction works seem to always have been idiosyncratic, perhaps?
Swamp Thing is, without a doubt, one of the greatest. As far as the art style goes, I think the general analysis would be that today's Big Two artwork is cleaner and more polished. And that's not a knock on the Vertigo stuff at all... I think it's more of a genre thing. Whereas Swamp Thing, Hellblazer, and Sandman all had deep horror influences, they lend themselves more to a sketchy, more organic, earthy look. All these books had a "texture" to the artwork that is missing in today's work.
That being said, I don't think this style would hold up at all in a mainstream Avengers, Spider-Man, or X-Men book, so I feel like it's a time-and-a-place type of situation. I think even Alan Moore realized this, as Watchmen has a more more clean, straight-forward look to it than his horror-centric work on Swamp Thing, or even Miracle Man (that one kind of blurs the line.)
While the Big Two titles continue to have various "house styles" over the decades, I think publishers are taking more chances lately, with the success of indie titles and Image books, which have a range of different art styles. Something like LOW or Wytches brings to mind the art styles of early Vertigo titles, and I think Marvel and DC occasionally try to branch out on smaller titles, like Lemire's Animal Man, with art by Travel Foreman.
If anything, I think a more simplistic, yet sketchy style is taking over, especially in indie titles. Artists like Cliff Chiang and Fiona Staples are topping the charts with good reason, and I feel like a lot of publishers are taking notice.
Imperius Rex Yeah, ‘polished’ is the right word! I thought it was just a question of lines (how many) but this older style is still distinctive from 90s Image/Wildstorm comics, many of them which had many ‘lines’ as well. I wonder if the sketchiness of the the early art has something to do with the lines being used for shading instead of borders, or the fact that they didn’t close out all the shapes, making it feel ‘unfinished’, if that makes sense. Of course, even Sandman had stories like Ramadan and Midsummer Night’s dream which are more acceptable to modern tastes, but Swamp Thing stayed mainly in the classic horror style, which works terrifically with the literate and ‘realistic’ fantasy it was.
I just binged like two hours of your guy's stuff
Best comment of the year so far.
Brag
Troy Potter not really bud
In Troy's defense, I'm assuming he was bragging that someone was binging our videos (in which, we're happy to read!) not that you're bragging ABOUT binging our videos (although, I would brag about that as well... because I don't get out much... ;) ) Thanks for the views Jacob!
Moral of the story, don't drink and comment on your own TH-cam vids.
I have to stop most videos halfway through, but I really enjoy finding one on a series I have read. This is a great series. Still haven't read volume 6.
I loved Swamp Thing. You guys pretty much summed it up. It is amazing
great video. greetings from the heart of evil ;)
yay swamp thing
He is in fact a tragic figure.
Great channel, but guys, why would you call the art "dated"? This is so much better than the digitally drawn and colored rubbish of today's comics - I don't want to ever touch anything like that. I don't know how can people consider today's stuff as good looking or even acceptable. But this stuff, it is pure art, it has much more value for my standards. And you have to work like really hard to find non-digitally colored stuff these days, we just lost it in the nineties.
Whew- we've taken a lot of heat for calling the artwork "dated."
Let's see if we can clear the air a bit. Or drain the swamp... (no, let's stick with "clear the air.")
By dated, we didn't mean it in a negative connotation. It was simply to say that comic books today don't look like this anymore. It accurately illustrates the Vertigo/DC supernatural style of the times (mid 80s). Most books today have a "cleaner" style to them, which invokes a more polished look. However, for a book like Swamp Thing, which should be gritty, rough around the edges, and unsettling, this sketchy-hyper-detailed style is perfect. No slight to the artwork of then, or today. Just pointing out that they are very different.
Also- when we recorded this one, we were both quite drunk. I think we filmed four episodes before we got to this one, and were most likely on our 6th or 7th beer a piece. I remember we tried to film one more episode after this and it wound up unusable. So- not an excuse, but in our defense, we weren't in the clearest head-space. Had we known the views this one would received we probably would've paced ourselves better. Sounds like a good enough reason to revisit the series with a more in-depth discussion next year...
Am I the only one who thinks Ghost Hunter Dave is hot in the Wonder Woman wig on the thumbnail?
Just wait until you get to our Sin City or Imperius Sex episodes...
@@ImperiusRex Thanks for the heads up. ;)
@@ImperiusRex Do you mind if I ask where you got your fake breast that you used for your Halloween episode this year? I wanna try something new.
A lady never tells...
But I’m no lady, so here: www.amazon.com/dp/B07PN9HCTC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glc_fabc_qLu5FbK44KVYZ
Get yourself something nice. It’s the holidays. You deserve it.
@@ImperiusRex Thanks Ghost Hunter Dave! 😃😁 Happy New Years!
Empire king???
Game of thrones was done after season 4.
Prince Namor shall hear of this treasonus treachery....you bed wetting surface dwellers have no right to claim the battle cry of the most valiant of Alantis's warriors. (Im not sure if marvel has a version of atlantis or if thats just dc with aquaman...but what eevves)
Man. You guys... Not funny at all. I laughed more during my last circumcision. Really. Take some advice and just discuss the damn comics. It's like you guys are laughing at inside jokes the audience isn't privy to. Honestly, if I had filmed this, I'd have been too embarrassed to post it. Like, watching it - I'm embarrass FOR you. Truly cringe worthy. Hats off too you guys at least for having no shame and not giving a damn.
Zachary Pettigrew “LAST circumcision”? How many circumcisions have you had? Are they just not taking?
Imperius Rex well, the problem is its always too big. So, after a girl im with leaves me cuz "its just too much", i get a little taken off the top.
Imagine, attempting to make internet compensation off of one of the greatest. 🪠 🍻🤤