The more I learn about it, the more I think 40K is basically the best steelman argument you could ever make against fascism's central fantasy: the ultimately strong, wise, powerful, aggressive, benevolent leader. The Emperor of Mankind is literally the best authoritarian you could want: he's a legitimate ubermensch, with literal superpowers which let him single-handedly restore interstellar travel to humanity, and an unparalleled intellect with which he can construct all manner of tech and supersoldiers to defeat actual barbaric warlords in the uniting of humanity under his empire, and he genuinely does have the benevolent--if expansionist--interests of the entire human race at heart, and in the process of his conquest is in fact defending all of humanity from actual alien invasions. And 40K says "The ultimate consequence of such an impossible man, such as you fascists yearn for unceasingly, would be that once he was killed, as autocrats of all kinds almost invariably are eventually, the glorious, species-encompassing empire he built could not possibly maintain itself without him; yet because of the extraordinary initial success of the superman's conquest during his lifetime, it could take centuries or even millennia for the systems he set in motion to fully collapse into corruption or despair, during which time the ruling class's desperation to maintain the fallen leader's crumbling legacy would reduce the vast majority of the human species to a level of debasement and misery we can scarcely imagine."
To keep it simple because tbh, I think this comment is long. I am new to 40k but I can make some approximations. Grimdark is never a ‘good’ genre. There is no good in the genre because all the good people are either dead or out of the story, be it sealed, mind fucked, body fucked or whatever else. In that sense, the idolization of the Imperium is at its root is basically worshipping a talking dead guy, which is a literal south park episode. There is no purity in 40K, there is no good. It is clear cut, everyone is evil. I am going to play the Tau, but even the Tau are not good. They have a caste system, that is all you would ever need in your modern, geopolitical context to dismiss it as bad. It is indeed the best steelman of being anti fash, but to keep it simple it is not because ‘oh lol the autocrat can die because assassins tend to that and shit collapses.’. In fact, dis that ever reliably work for all kings and queens? Sometimes, but not always. If the Emperor was replaced by Gulliman like in the story, it would at least be progress and be a much better political situation. Case in point, 40k has a facism problem because facists don’t understand media comprehension, as Vaush would say. I agree. I would love to write 40k stories, but even my Tau army cant be the good guys. They cant be. Because the setting is grimdark. If you want some good and maybe some power fantasys, watch shonen anime. Otherwise, idfc, 40k is the one reason why you do not want authoritarianism and irrational belief to take hold leading to idealic bigotry, racism, systemic discrimination etc etc and the one reason why you should never lead by cult of personality. No way. Even in a science fantasy grimdark, mind you, is that it is so unrealistic, GW had to spell it out it in black and white so these fascists can ‘get it.’ And even then, I do not have my hopes up too high.
@@CatsNChickens Oooh, you really got him, fascist exposed. Yeah bruv, maybe people just don't like being treated like they're figurative special needs children who need to have "bad thing is bad" spelled out for them.
@@thosebloodybadgers8499 Seems like only the people that did need it spelled out are upset. Also who are you to put words in that guys mouth? you all have meetings about this shit or something? Maybe people just dont like fascists, bruuuuuv.
The subtext, the text, all the illustrations, the title page, the table of contents, the index, the foreword, the dedication, the front cover, the back cover, the spine-
@@EllaKarhu I think they just look past the intent and enjoy the fashy asthetic unironically. Kinda like cops who have the Punisher logo on shit. You and I know that makes no fucking sense. The cop is just fantasizing about vigilantee murder.
In an interview, one of the core 40k lore writers Dan Abnett says that one of the early inspirations for the imperium was the dystopian hell hole of Margaret Thatcher's Britain in the 1980s. This was the same time period in the UK that also gave us media like Judge Dredd.
@@mrgaudy1954 As hard as this may be to believe many of us English celebrated too. The song 'Ding Don the Witch is Dead' didn't get to no. 1 in the UK charts at the time purely on Scottish purchases.
@@alejandrorivas4585 I remember reading a tweet (or facebook post? it was years ago, I'm not sure) by one of the core writers (maybe Abnett) saying that it's not the case. He explained that Ghazgkull's name is actually based in Tolkien's Black Speech and concluded with something along the lines of "we already had enough of Thatcher in our reality."
I don't think that quote reflects our current reality tbh. Rick Roderick has a good reply to it: "Orwell’s vision of a horrible future which was a boot stomping on a human face forever is a utopian image because he assumes there would be resistance and human faces; both of which may turn out to be false."
It's like getting a text from your estranged abusive father letting you know he's celebrating 2 years of sobriety today, and he wants to know how you're doing
Hate to burst you bubble but it's very likely just Reddit being Reddit (giving control of the discussion to the IP owner and clamping down on what you're allowed to discuss). The only news here is that they're successfully doing it to a heavily Nazi-larping influenced community now. This could work in the short term, but it feels like trying to put a bandaid on a cancerous tumor.
@@NotCthulhu The mere fact that Nazi sympathy was outlawed on this kind of platform is an improvement from where things were around five years ago. There was a time when the subreddit of this kind of hobby would have felt no need to do that.
I worked for GW in the nineties when they were still based. We did occasionally get some very strange sorts in the store, who seemed to take a deal of pleasure in some of the aspects of the background. At the time, because these were the old days where everyone was without internet and indoor toilets and nobody lived past twenty years old before dying of a headache, we were genuinely confused by these people, and as we got to know them, we gradually banned them from the store. We didn’t want their bullshit, especially considering we also had kiddies and their parents in the store, notwithstanding the actual revulsion we felt for these misfits. We were a bunch of hairdyed misfits who liked wearing leather jackets and smoking cigarettes - absolute hardcore rebels, in other words - and we very much knew that there was a minority of people that didn’t actually understand a single thing, both about the background material as well as how human beings actually work. They thought it was Wehrmacht fanfic. It wasn’t - it was a piss-take of the right wing in particular, and authoritarianism in general. It seems that some of those awful people went on to set up a TH-cam channel where they could double down on how there are no blacks and no trans people in WH40k. They were then, and remain now, absolute simps for genocidal pussy. But, and this is important, the vast, vast majority of people were just passionate, engaged (and, as a result of how things were priced, increasingly impoverished) people who just had an absolute blast playing games with us and each other. In short, when they say “we’ve said it before” they mean it. A fash who thinks 40k includes them is an idiot. It does not. You are the butt of the joke. Fuck off, nazi. It was true back then, and it’s true now. Fuck off, and don’t come back ever. Re: GW specifically, It’s not necessarily got more progressive; it’s just had to be more explicit about it due to Nazi fucknuts claiming that the imperium have “the right idea” and glorying in how there are no blacks (despite the tallarn and the salamanders being a thing - and the red eye thing for salamanders is relatively new, they used to just be black dudes).
I bet that doofus Arch is weirdly outraged at this. Edit: he’s literally crying about it live as I type this lmao. Sargon is there too; Also oddly upset for an avowed non fash.
Sargon doesn't actually play these games. I remember when TheQuartering and Sargon got really upset when Wizards banned certain "racially insensitive" MtG cards like it was the end of the world. What they left out is that the cards in question could very easily afford to be banned because the card design in general was severely outdated (Either they focused too much on color matters design or were massive color pie breaks that didn't see any play).
@@Personvids As in they literally contacted him and told him "Drop the Warhammer in your name or we're going to sue you" or him getting so upset with GW's first statement about hate that he did it voluntarily?
The incident that kicked this off I read about earlier today. A non GW tournament had some guy show up in a swastika shirt introducing himself as "Austrian Painter" and when criticized the tournament organizers put out a press release saying "now we don't like fascism, but isn't silencing someone's freedom of speech the real fascism?"
@@raak4070 unfortunately in Spain it turns out that ideology (including nazis) are actually a protected class so the tournament organisers legally couldn’t kick the fash out, which sucks big time.
it's really funny, that ppl who claim not to be facists/nazi/far-right will cry out discrimination every time something like this happens. and i hope we see more of these: creators and companies telling clearly that they will not support far-right ideologies.
"it's really funny" is the most Karen-level passive aggressive take ever. Yes, innocents tend to cry out discrimination when they're accused without basis of something they're not, that's common sense for anybody but lunatics seeing nazis under every bed.
@@Mant111 Bud, they literally just said you won't be allowed in ternies if you wear a swastika. If you feel oppressed by that, may want to learn what that funny cross on all your shirts is.
@@Mant111 This whole thing is because a guy calling himself "Austrian Painter" walked into a tournament in a Swastika shirt. Nice cope but it's fabulously easy to identify Nazis when they crawl out of the woodwork to cry and seethe how everyone is being called a Nazi when anyone ever condemns Nazism.
@@Victor-vf4tl Starship Troopers wasn’t satire originally the book is straight up propaganda, the movie turned it into satire. So I can see a situation where a fascist that reads the book doesn’t see the satire of the movie. One thing that I have learned is that fascist like to read a lot.
I saw an article posted on Twitter about the Gears (soldiers) in Gears of War being tools of a declining fascist government and so many replies were outraged that games journalists were making stuff up and inserting politics in their totally neutral, fun macho shooter game. Some of them were genuinely oblivious. Worrying stuff.
I don't actually play Warhammer, but even I was able to puzzle out that the world of Warhammer was explicitly made so that there is no good guy. It's unfortunate, but there really are a lot of right-wingers who not only don't understand this, but are upset that GW had to come out and say something so obvious. At least it's nice to make fun of them, though.
If you're a little slow it's easy to just automatically assume in a setting with aliens and humans that humans are supposed to be the protagonists and thus the good guys
@@ashfox7498 That's TRUE, but anyone who's a Warhammer "fan" doesn't know much about the lore if they think that the Imperium of Man is synonymous with humanity. IMO they admittedly don't explore this enough, but the IoM is the LARGEST human faction, NOT the only. The Codex book says that there is just about any kind of planet you can imagine, ranging from a planet that's almost exactly like current-day Earth, with many different countries and limited space travel, to "feudal worlds" that have regressed to having technology less advanced than ours, to multi-planet or multi-system empires or alliances. Any of those can be part of the Imperium, former Imperium world's that became independent after the Imperium straight up forgot about them, because there are just too many planets to keep track of, worlds that seceded from the Imperium and won the ensuing war, ancient (30k or prior) worlds that the Imperium is not even aware of, ect. Tl;dr, not only is the IoM the bad guy, they are often fighting against other human factions who are more or less the good guys.
My first actual in person experience with the 40k fandom was walking into a games workshop store and meeting an employee named pablo who was just super excited to introduce me to the fandom and lore.
@@HistoritorJimaldus Honestly he was so nice and excited about the lore and shit that I couldn't leave without buying the starter guide that comes with a little space marine. Can't really afford to get into the tabletop game but I did buy 40k space marine and vermintide and just fucking love the lore. Once I get my money up I'll get some books and fully get into the fandom, thanks Pablo.
My first experience was one of those actual Fascists who simp for the Imperium of Man. He was damn good at making short films though, so I had to tolerate him.
I like people like Arch and The Quartering who have been very publicly rebuked by the actual game manufacturers but still talk about the product that wants nothing to do with them.
Hm…I wonder why so many people who “aren’t fascists (or racists, or homophobes, or transphobia, etc.)” cry about their “free speech being taken” and being “discriminated against” when it’s people being called out and excluded for bigoted or fascist behavior 🤔
A couple years back, Benjamin Dixon did a great episode of his show about this kind of behavior something to the title of "When will free-speech absolutists speak up against Nazis?" You're not the only one who thinks it very weird and suspect that certain types of people only frame things as free-speech violations when it comes to fascists getting what they deserve.
Because those terms are so broad that you cannot define them so it gives great power to people who get to decide what exactly is fascist or racist or transphobic etc.
@@yunix2396 everytime I try to link something in TH-cam, the comment gets automatically deleted. The best I can do for you is to tell you to copy and paste the quote into TH-cam's search bar and it should bring it right up. Sorry. Or just search for Benjamin Dixon in general, his channel is great and there's a ton of other stuff he's done that is also worth listening to.
@@ulissesarredondo8674 his friend will probably wonder into oblivion, or join with others that are of similar mindset. None of these are good. I would tell his friend to seek help. This all assuming this dude is telling the truth...
"hey you know we're making fun of fascism here right?" The definitely-not-fascist conservatubers who "just ask questions": w-woke cringe cancel cringe we must secu-
@rusted metal apart from the desire to genocide anything that isnt human, purge all "heretics", where heretic is defined as "anyone who the inquisition doesnt like", the inquisition itself having de-facto absolute authority over the imperium. The inquisition having the motto "innocence proves nothing". Honestly if you just want to sealion pick a more ambiguous topic, the imperium is clear-cut a fascist faction.
This is probably an statement based in a huge controversy here in Spain with a tournament called GT Talavera related to a team of Nazis not getting expelled
I don't understand Spanish/italian/hungaruan/central and Eastern European white supremacy. Im an Indian with a hindu fsther and a Muslim mother. My Muslim mother, I've just found out is 27% Italian 10% Irish and 7% English. In other words, she's half white and yet she's the brownest person in the house. My dad has pink skin and only registers as 25% Iranian. I swear, those tests are fucking bullshit. We're not Italian, but I guess a lot of Italians have North-African and Middle-Eastern blood. I've been to Madrid and seen locals who look more "Indian" than I do. I mean, just that one chick in "LA casa del papel (money heist)" looks more Indian than 50% of North Indian girls.
As someone who loves the 40K universe, this makes me incredibly happy. GW haven't been doing a good job at pointing out that the setting is a satire to the non-media savvy people who unironically decide to go "uhhh actually the imperium is right in given it's circumstances, also this is my friend Kyle who painted little red arm bands on his Kriegs, don't mind the rotational symmetry in their logo shirt design, that's just RP". The average person apparently can't be trusted to be media savvy and be able to understand the underlying message of a piece of media without having it literally spelled out.
That's an absolutely true statement as evidenced by all the dipshit right-wingers who try to pretend every famous leftist creator/content in history was on their side, actually.
To be honest I feel like they have been it's just that some people are willingly ignorant. At the beginning of literally every single book and codex is that forward that always states "to live in these times is to live in the most cruel regime imaginable"
It's literally just Poe's Law. Fascists hold opinions so extreme that satire of said opinions can't be distinguished from the real thing, apparently not even by themselves. Fascists actively WANT something like the Imperium, therefore to them, the exaggeration doesn't apply. (and tbf, Warhammer skirts that line a lot more than other fantasy/scifi fascist empires. It's a bit "too real" while also not always making clear enough that the Imperium is actually evil - they're portrayed as working for the continued existence of mankind, after all, which lots of people perceive as a noble goal that justifies their extreme methods) And I'm also pretty sure Games Workshop skirts that line on purpose. They're aware how big a part of their universe is fascist worshippers and incel neckbeards, so they're purposefully blurring that line where they can with plausible deniability do so.
Vaush moved Arch six inches up the board and then in the psychic phase used Arch's Obnoxious Fake Accent ability to deal D3 mortal wounds to every model within eighteen inches. At least he gave us ample warning about it. Seriously though, it is great to see that the 40k community is generally pretty good at ostracizing the fash whenever they decide to make their presence known. The fact that GW has to make these sorts of announcements is still sad though; you'd think that the satire would be obvious, but the targets of satire's ridicule often have a hard time recognizing themselves or the fact that they are being mocked.
No of course not. OTHER people will do it. You will be the glorious chosen of the emperor in golden armor, slaying enemies and (at worst) dying glorious death sourrounded by your dying enemies. Fascism is a deathcult without orgies.
@@JM-mh1pp facists are the people who suggest culling their own so the strong survive only then immediately piss themselves when everyone agrees and asks them to go first.
@@briankenney9528 the same Space Marines who make up an extremely tiny portion of the overall population of humanity so chances of being born one are extremely slim that you're more likely to be born as Jeff Bezos relatively speaking in our current reality. Also most Space Marines die horrific deaths anyway because even though they are humanities strongest soldiers they are still just fancy cannon fodder at the end of the day like most of humanity. I think what fascists really want to be is the aristocrats and people who live at the very top of Hive Cities, people who are probably more susceptible to falling for Chaos worship because they can afford to pay off the inquisitors enough to turn a blind eye to their hedonistic activities.
Tells you a bit about the RL vs 'terminally online' divide, even when it comes to fandoms. Turns out yet again internet weirdos are not representative of the whole community. That's nice.
As someone who used to play World of Tanks I can 100% vouch that the community is toxic and leans hard in the fash direction. So glad I uninstalled that trash. What's sad is it was pretty fun early on, but got filled with the most stuck up pricks over time.
I played war thunder for a while too (not as good a game as it used to be, as a side note) and can also confirm the intense toxicity of the community. (To the level of knowing someone who's profile was identifiably feminine being repeatedly and frequently targeted for team kills at the start of matches to an absurd degree, which would mean being removed from the match entirely and possibly needing to spend in game resources or wait to be able to use the vehicle again) I can also confirm that the people playing the German tanks had the worst teamwork by far. Make of that what you will 😉
@@dynamicworlds1 I saw people drive into water and die at the start of a match if some mod showed the enemy team having a better win rate than ours. It was super cringe.
I play World of Warships and I definitely agree that the community can be pretty toxic. For example players will report and bemean you simply because you are playing a ship type they dislike going up against. Doesn't help that a lot of big name content creators for the game are indeed toxic elitists.
I played for a while but stopped because the community is so toxic. Someone actually said to me I and my whole family should go to the gas chamber because I did not play how they liked. >_> And Wargaming really doesn't seem interested in fixing their games community.
13:40 Actually, Oculus Imperia roleplays as in-universe characters including inquisitors and he's definitely the best warhammer lore channel on youtube and not at all fashy, since many of his scripts are essentially well written fanfiction in addition to being informative.
Actually he only ever roleplays as an in-universe historian. I seem to recall more than one video where his character gets in trouble with the Inquisition...
His character literally gets in trouble because the inquisition finds a recording he made talking about the flaws of the imperium. In the end the inquisition can't touch him since he has Gillman patronage but they kill another historian he know that had similar thoughts.
@@Oliolli3 it's been a while tbh. I might be getting mixed up with other creators as well, but yeah it's normally the historian guy who is uncharacteristically decent to the point of sometimes being considered heretical. It is still largely a dogmatic and imperium biased perspective, at least with regards to the character's values and faith.
@@michaeltrant6113 Ah, I remember that video, it's actually excellent. Despite the roleplay the channel does it well is my point, really. It never comes off as unironically fascist enjoying. Games Workshop themselves don't always strike that balance.
I think that he treads a very well-written line between on the one hand being a loyal citizen of the Imerium, but on the other hand as a historian who has found out secrets about how bad things actually are, but can't say too much or it could get him killed.
I can see where the problem comes from: The Imperium may be a satire of fascism, but they undeniably look cool even so. So did the Nazis: A lot of people got caught up in the uniforms, the parades and pageantry. It adds a strong appeal to the politically ignorant or unengaged.
WATCH BALDERMORT! He is the best lore guy and has the voice of a fucking Primarch. He gets in character, but because it seems like he loves the stuff. No clue his overarching views on stuff but comes off as super likable.
Arch is such a loser that he got himself spanked by Games Workshop for being a terrorist sympathizing lunatic and they sent him to bed without his warhammer.
@@babassoonist557 That's actually incorrect. GW has a ton of words, Warhammer amongst them, registered for copywrite or trademark. In this case, they came after him for a trademark violation. While it may be fun to entertain the idea that they decided to enforce their trademark because of who Arch is in reality they have to enforce their trademarks or else they can end up losing them.
Knowing some of the people involved with writing warhammer 40k that I have met, it's influences are Dune, Nemesis the Warlock/2000 A.D., Ralph Bakshi's Wizards, the 30 years war and 1984 all blended with with psychoactive substances and punk nihilism. While Hawkwind's Chronicles of the Black Sword was playing in the background. All over a nice cup of tea. And yes, they are mostly anarchists and/or dark humorists.
The funniest part of all this is that in all online posts I’ve seen about this, there are always still people in the comments defending the Imperium. From GW. Funniest shit I’ve ever seen
I had a conversation with one dude in the comments of a lore video who said he would rather live in the 40k universe, when I asked why he said unironically 'because you have more freedom'. I asked him to elaborate, he said you can be Imperial Guard, Space Marine etc. I really wanted to think he was being ironic or trolling but I dunno he seemed to think that where we are now is some sort of dystopia where you don't really have true choice everything is decided for you. Maybe he was just dumb but he was acting like he was some truly devout fan of 40k and he understood it. I think it must of been a comment under that guy Luetin's videos (I think that's the name of the TH-camr). He does good lore videos but comes across as bit of a 'both sides' kinda moderate.
@@lloroshastar6347 Lol everybody knows that real 40K fans are known for loving their futuristic tale, precisely because contrary to what followers of other futuristic fandoms, like Star Trek as the most illustrative example, they're horrified about the prospect of actually living in it and to become "one amongst untold billions" living in "the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable". I mean, it's in the very intro for Emprah's sake.
@@lloroshastar6347 ROFL, you can't just *be* a Space Marine. First you have to be the absolute pinnacle of human physicality... before you hit puberty. Then you actually have to pass the ridiculously dangerous tests. Then you get a decade+ of horrific surgical, genetic and hormonal alterations to your body, while your mind gets fried with psychological and hypnotic conditioning. Space Marines aren't even classified as human after what they go through, no one in their right mind would want any of that. It is like what Wolverine went though, only cranked up to 11 and the knob broken off. Oh yeah, and all of that, not your choice. Many tribes that aspirants are drawn from don't even understand what the stars really are, let alone what an Astartes is. It is tradition to give the demi-gods one of yours, and an honour beyond anything for the Astartes to take them. And you never get to see them ever again. I kinda question your buddy's lore knowledge, seems really surface-level with those takes.
For anyone into nerdy things and metal, check out British death metal band Bolt Thrower. Their albums "Realms Of Chaos", "Warmaster" and "Mercenary" have Warhammer art given to them from Games Workshop and not to mention GW designed their logo that they used from the second album onwards. A pretty popular band amongst death metal fans from 1989-1995 and still have a pretty active fan base beyond those years despite having broken up a few years ago. Also, one of the first death metal bands to have a female member (their bassist is the girlfriend of the vocalist.....crushing that stereotype that women "ruin" bands).
Dude, basically everyone knows Bolt Thrower. They're one of the most influential death metal bands...ever. Plus, there is no "stereotype that women ruin bands". Idk where you got that from, except maybe some of the crazy far right black metal folks? but a LOT of the more mainstream metal bands feature women, it's basically impossible to get around that at this point.
@@Tacklepig no I've heard that sentiment a ton. Just depends on where you live i guess. Also why do you seem put off by the fact they are trying to show people the band? I didn't know about them, so i know others might be learning of them for the first time.
I can't believe the number of times I have been attacked for saying literally what GW said there. Literally the same words. Not an aspirational state but satire. GW creators are anti-fascists etc.
True, but I also do think it's about time left-wing artists just admitted that satire as a tool doesn't actually work. It's almost always taken at face value by Nazi's, or embraced by Conservatives. Sarah Palin is a good example, her being mocked and parodied ultimately just made her more popular.
@@lloroshastar6347 That's sadly true. Not surprising though that a parady of reality doesn't register as such with people, who have trouble pinning down reality in the first place.
Ugh, glad this went over well in the parts of the internet you hang out on. My favorite OSR author threw a massive baby tantrum and barfed up a huge screed on his blog. Kinda regretting backing his latest kickstarter now -_-'.
Once more, GW must reiterate that 40K is in fact, satire, and not an ideal to pursue. You would think Orks very obviously being a species of soccer hooligans with critical levels of toxic masculinity would be a clue, but apparently not.
Just a slight correction, Horus didn't turn because he saw a vision of the future and thought it was inhumane and awful. He turned because in his vision of the future there was no mention of him and his warriors and this hurt his very fragile #1 son ego. A literal galaxy-level tantrum over a bad acid trip
As a queer woman of possible color who has been doing tabletop on and off for about 6 years now, even in that time there has been so much growth. I remember when I started playing D&D during the summer of my freshman year of high school, I knew nobody else in my high school played and after the summer passed my group that I got into through a local hobby shop was primarily conservative white cis adult men, some of the incel-ey and faschy variety and the hobby shop was a cock-house to say the least, but most not as politically intense. Seeing TTRPG companies become more progressive and communities healthier even in that short of time brings me so much joy. I've been meaning to get back into it and it'll be nice to go into a shop somewhere and see a greater variety of people and faces. This really made me smile to see
That sounds great and really hopefull! But I also hope that the men there who were the majority either became progressive or were encouraged to get out of the closet. Hopefully they just didn’t migrate to more hateful echo chambers. (Maybe I’m being too cynical ^_^; )
Man i really hate myself right now. Looking back on it, how i got into war hammer was in 2017 when Screwattack at the time (now just Death Battle) released their video of Top 10 Terrifying Warhammer Monsters and thought that those were cool monsters i wanted to learn more about them, and I ended up on Arch.... hindsight is 20/20 but man the regret is heavy on my part...
Hey don't worry about it. I also followed Arch for a couple of weeks because he seemed intetesting an fun pnly for one morning hear him rant against "SJWs" an feminists. It was so over the top I had to male a double rake to make sure it wasn't some shitty joke. As it turned out it was just shit, no joke about it. We all make mistakes. It how we deal with them that defines us.
I hate that Magic is associated with The Quartering now. It's overall a pretty progressive space -- that's the whole reason his channel exploded, he harassed someone out of the community and WotC gave him a lifetime ban for it. There are still plenty of incel types like the Quartering bemoaning the progressive bent of the community, but they're rightfully in the minority.
It really isn't. The vast majority of people in the MtG community don't even know who he is. MtG has way worse image problems than him, lol. The public perception problem lies more with "sweaty nerds and body odor" than with anything else. (also, just saying - WotC isn't progressive for shit, they just like to pretend they are)
I find it hard to believe the Quartering is respected by anyone, he is embarrassing. Why would any community want someone as stupid and easily debunkable as him representing them.
I always imagined that at some point, after the emperor was nearly lost due to the failing of the golden throne, and after some massive effort was required to save him, he would be restored fully to life, awakening once more. Upon his return he would take a look around and his reaction would be something like "What is this? I never ordered any of THIS stuff! I only care about defeating chaos. Where did you ever get the idea I wanted you exterminating aliens? Why are you keeping our people in such conditions? If anything you're only helping chaos by sowing all this enmity and suffering. The way you've been running things is nothing like _I_ told you to. You've twisted what I said and made up other things entirely. This all needs to change." At which point somebody would declare: "False emperor! The emperor is false! Something else came back from the warp!" Kicking off a big apocalyptic civil war arc between the emperor and the people who believe in the version of the emperor that they've created for themselves so much that they wouldn't even recognize or like the real man if he returned and spoke to them. Of course I can't imagine them doing something like this unless they were looking to "end times" 40k because it would be such a huge shift in the status quo.
I can't believe we needed to put this into words... Thank you GW to do sth actually decent in a while. I always was under the impression we all were on the same page with this kind of stuff. I'm actually glad this didn't turn out as bad as I was afraid. Every hobby / group has assholes, but of course the setting can invite a certain group of people.... All in all a very welcome thing to see
What I find funny is that it's pretty well established that the Warp and its dominance by the Chaos gods is a product of the flaws of the Imperium / (and also blood sacrifice slave owning Eldar.)
arch does in-fact have a second channel, its "archcast" and today he's doing (in its 4th hour now!) a special livestream with his best friend sargon to talk about this gw statement.
Doesn't he also have his "The Lodge" channel, where I explicitly remember a video called "Islam: is it time for Draconian Measures to be used?" and him doing an 8values test where he comes out as "Nationalist Populist", or a fascist as normal people call that.
@@RaccKing21 honestly if anyone is ok with being called a ‘nationalist’, be afraid, they’re either a fascist or someone lied to them about what that means
It says many, truly disgusting things about the state of a depressing part of the population that there are people who not only don't understand fascism is bad, but *take issue with people spelling that out*.
So... I feel that context is necessary in this situation. Its not illegal to wear nazi paraphernalia in Spain. This stems from the fact that it was the only country where the fascists won and were left untouched since Spanish Civil War happened before WW2, and after WW2 ended, Spain ended up being a safe haven for nazis. After Franco's death, there was no process akin to de-nazification of the forces, political parties or judicial system, so fascism is seen in a very positive light compared to other countries. In fact, there has been scarce, if any, condemnations against Franco's regime on right-wing parties and at least one of them follows the fascist playbook, combined with our own brand of Trumpism. Do not be surprised if in a couple years you find out that we've followed Poland or Hungary's path. Hopefully it wont fuel other countries's fascisms even further (check out Behind the Insurrections, a great podcast from Robert Evans) but ramifications could be more dangerous than expected.
for those interested adeptus ridiculous is a good WH40k lore channel for those interested, most painting channels are also progressive like snipe and wib, midwinter minis and miscast
For those who want to know what a fascist regime/dictatorship is like, read up on Portugal's history between 1932-74. Let me just give you examples of some of the laws put in place: 1- If you smoked and you wanted to use something other than matches to light up a cigar/cigarette (gas lighter/zippo) you needed a license to use those. 2- If 3 or more people where gathered outdoors but not in a public venue (bar, coffee shop, grocerie store, etc.) it was considered they where plotting against the government and they where arrested. 3- Unmarried women could only travel with a written permission from their father, married women with a permission from their husband. 4- Known or suspected members of the Socialist or Comunist party where arrested and sent to the Tarrafal prison, nicknamed "The Oven", in Cape Verde, where they where tortured to reveal names and locations of member of those parties.
You know what's interesting about the far right, at least the Western far right, is they like to claim they are devout Christians, or at the very least they like the Christian aesthetic. But they do also claim to want to live in the 40k Universe (at least those who play 40k do). But, that Universe is as close to Hell as you can get without it actually being Hell. No matter who you follow, which side you're on, unless you're one of the races unaffected by the Warp like Necrons or Tyranids you end up there anyway. When you're alive you live a life of hell, whomever you are. If you get captured by Dark Eldar or Chaos you will likely be tortured to death, possibly over decades or maybe even longer if you're really unlucky. If you get to die quickly at the hands of the Imperium, Tyranids, Orks, Eldar, Necrons or Tau you go straight to the Warp. If you live as pretty much anyone you either have a short life, a painful life or even if you have a hedonistic life you won't have a happy one. Nobody settles down and raises a family, not really, everybody just works until they die in some form or another. It's just Hell, pure Hell, and it's written that way intentionally. I'm sure in that Universe somewhere on some remote planet at some point in history people have nice lives but that's never the focus of the story itself, and also that's not what the far right are thinking of are they. They want to be Space Marines, they want to be mass murderers, its a genocide fantasy for them, but in that Universe you suffer whether you're the victim or you're doing the killing. There are no winners, that's the point. So I see it like this, it's the far right telling us they would rather live in Hell than the world we already live on, which makes sense because whenever they take power all they do is make everyone's lives worse except for those at the very top, much like in the 40k Universe. The far right are Hell fetishists, they don't worship God, they just pretend to, they worship Satan, and not the Satanic Bible version, they worship the medieval torture demon.
Makes perfect sense to me. Hell is a Christian invention. You got to be pretty far gone, if you think "Hey, how can make these people obey every rule our church has set, even when they are completely alone and no one can control their behavior? I got it! Let's tell them there is a realm of near unimaginable suffering and terror and that they deserve to be there for all eternity, if they don't obey us." So, if you think about not what the Christian mythology is in regards to it's content, but the fact that someone made that up on purpose and decided to pretend it's real, it's pretty obvious that Christians today still like to imagine hell.
The 40K is the best depiction of why Fascism and Zealotry are bad and definitly not something you want. There's a joke that explains this well enough: Star Wars Fans would love to live in the Universe. Star Trek Fans would love to live in the Universe. Warhammer40K Fans are quite contend with how things are
For what its worth i was a regular in the GW in Wiesbaden, Germany. The Female boss there was super nice and threw people out that werent. In the about 3 years there i NEVER had seen anyone be an asshole. Neither did i ever encounter hate against lgbtq+ (i am trans myself), the disabled, Women (atleast 4 regs were women) or racist shite. If GW-shops were/are like that everywhere i would be happy. (the only sad story i remember was a bit of vandalism started seeminy by the church next door when the shop had an "create your own demon" event advertised in the windows)
I'm only vaguely familiar with the Warhammer series and i really don't know much about it, but fascists being driven out of any community is a win in my book. I just really wish they would do this for halo. The halo fanbase is full of violent fascists and homophobes. They look at the covenant as an example instead of a sci-fi faction. I love halo, but i hate the fanbase
But the Covenant ended up being a dysfunctional empire based on a lie, a lie that could've cause the extinction of all life in the galaxy. Why the fuck would anyone want to use that as an example?
That's interesting because the Covenant were written by relatively Conservative writer's as a stand in for Islamic terrorism, given the time they came out. This is more notable in the 2nd game than the first, but honestly I'd be shocked if Halo was dominated by left-wing writer's given the approach to the subject. I think ultimately though they are probably moderate and don't want to necessarily offend anyone, but the story is rather pro-militarist. I mean, the Spartans are super soldiers genetically modified and selected from a young age, that's eugenics. They are also all that stands between Earth and its total destruction. Plus on some super lazy level I get the impression that the Flood = communism, although clearly also inspired by diseases and parasites. Don't worry I'm not knocking being a fan of Halo, I don't think anyone should feel guilty of the art they enjoy unless it's directly and intentionally promoting harm to a real group of people, which I don't think Halo is, it's all allegory.
I'm kinda curious now, what do Arch types think of Ultramar as a society? It's no socialist society, and since it's a part of the Imperium it can't stray too far before some Inquisitor gets trigger happy, but at the same time if there is any human society in the 40K setting that is decent to live in and somewhat within our bounds of morality, it would be Ultramar
Im sure that he would prefer to live there if he had to live in that universe but he prefers Baal, just because it is so different and brutal. He had a Blood angels army because theyre the sons of the bird-boy
@@MrPlainsflyer funnily enough though the only Primarch I can think of that is less fascist than Sanguinius is Vulkan. Sanguinius was a fairly great guy, his big negatives being the fratricide forced by the Red Thirst, and zeal regarding Big E. Also, Arch wouldn't last two seconds in Baal, both because it's an irradiated waste (and now a warp infected and Tyranid infested wreck) and because Baal’s people would both be disgusted by his apathy and physical weakness. But hey, the satire goes over his head already, no surprise he wouldn't understand the nuances of Baal, the Blood Angels, and Sanguinius
I have a rulebook of the classic Star Trek tabletop game Starfleet Battles from 1996 that explicitly invites women to enjoy the game, no matter what anyone else says. For some reason, this statement reminded me of that.
Also, the proper Grimdark is not meant to cater to edgelords; It's to give an excuse for ongoing war when it's best to answer to senseless violence by senseless violence.
The worst part about WH40k is that, while they are very evil (and unlike pre-heresy almost all of it is unnecessary), if you're a human they're your best option. Every other option is somehow worse.
@@thegreathim0018 Oh boy, I sure do love having all my skin rot off or being forced into an even more authoritarian system with shinier aesthetics that will also lose.
Maaaan. I can't even keep track of how many times I've seen someone like casually mention how awesome the imperium is (usually in my Stellaris fan groups funnily enough) and I try to be like "It's not though. You know that right? The Imperium is actually very awful and that's kinda the point?" And then they try to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'll confess I don't know much about Warhammer, but I must say I'm really surprised that there are that many people out there who look at the Galactic Empire in Star Wars or the Imperium in 40K and unironically think "actually this is pretty based, we should imitate it IRL". Do they fail to notice that these are all obvious satire of fascist regimes? And it's not even like they're nuanced portrayals or anything, they're cartoonishly evil. Like, "kill your own lieutenants for bringing you bad news" evil. What's next, people stanning for the Death Eaters in Harry Potter?
In my experience elder players like armies that ignore all the rules other people have to play by and also love sneak attacks - so tax dodgers and thieves? 🤔
As a newcomer to the hobby, I’m very glad that some in the community are taking a stand against hate and bigotry. I think this statement by GW was necessary and encouraging.
I am actually more inclined to explore 40K media now that GW has taken this stance and it resonates well with the majority of the audience. I have always had a bad presentiment about it in the past and it felt only more confirmed with Arch being exposed to be a literal fascist.
The community overall is pretty nice. The problem is the ones who aren't *really aren't* and they manage to taint the entire community by association. Everything in 40k is the most extreme version of everything. The lore is great just from a "what did they decide to one-up now?" standpoint, let alone the actually good stories and characters like Commissar Cain, Ravenor and Eisenhorn. I wonder if the nazis ever read the Cain books as not actually being satire? Those are hilarious at points.
Damn. I just got into warhammer last year. I had no idea about that Arch dude. I hate to admit, his Horus heresy book overviews are really good. That’s a shame. 😢
I prefer mass effect universe (lore) ,it's tolerances, diverse races that can live in harmony and a civil society. The first time I got introduced to warhammer lore I was disgusted it was at that moment I finally understood why fascists love warhammer40k, IN SHORT WARHAMMER 40K IS THE WET DREAM OF FASCISTS.and godforbids the future of humanity under fascism.
@@Ramtin-Blue_rose Because it proves them right. Being tolerant there is a death sentence, being open minded invites literal demons. Questioning your own morals invites insanity and death. It truly is responsible thing (in wh 40k) to be close minded religious nutcase. And they love it.
@@Ramtin-Blue_rose I know. But it does not bother me at all, there is something for everyone (sisters of battle, or Eldar ) if you try to make every faction feel inclusive you loose the element of uniqueness to that faction.
I'm so proud of Games-workshop and of the Warhammer community's response to this post and this subject. The God Emperor Trump stuff made me sad and I appreciate that they're fully and clearly pushing it out of the group.
i've never been able to play 40k because well it's spendy, but i was interested and so just went to a local tourney and watched. Very cool people and game honestly. i hope i one day get to play it
I didn't dive that deep into 40K lore, but one of the first things I learned is "There are no good guys." I guess it's easy to forget how awful the Imperium is when they're written as the protagonists for every book, though
I don't think you can ever say "there are no good guys" about any setting. You can say that all the major factions are pretty evil, but... that's just life? Like, there's also no "good guys" faction in the real world. There's probably lots of people in the universe who could be considered good guys, they're just probably not actively part of one of the bigger factions and thus less relevant to the games.
I'm not surprised that it went well, honestly, I think it's a small niche of people in the 40k community that actually think fascism is good and don't see the obvious satirical badness of the imperium. It's like how must people who appreciate greek mythology and history will readily admit "oh yeah, and they were super duper gay as hell and weirdly into little boys," and only a niche group of nutjobs think they were actual giga chad embodiments of heterosexual western values.
I find it funny that one of the people who thinks the Ancient Greeks were giga chads and who has a hard on for them is my embarrassing Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Still I gotta hand it to the guy, he is very virile, has like a tonne of kids, credit where credit is due (poor kids).
Yeah, I'm a War Thunder player and I've been looking for a squad without fascists nor racists, no luck so far. And I have my own set of russian hats IRL, most people at my university recognize me for it... And because I'm the one selling gummy bears after the OG seller started selling socks instead of candy.
I played war thunder for a while too (not as good a game as it used to be, as a side note) and can confirm the intense toxicity of the community. (To the level of knowing someone who's profile was identifiably feminine being repeatedly and frequently targeted for team kills at the start of matches to an absurd degree, which would mean being removed from the match entirely and possibly needing to spend in game resources or wait to be able to use the vehicle again) I can also confirm that the people playing the German tanks had the worst teamwork by far.
If I were to satirize spicy food by saying there was a dish so spicy that it sent people into week-long comas and told a story about people who would kill to eat it, some real people would find that story aspirational. Like, "someday," they would hope, "we'd be able to make a dish that spicy," and they really could envision themselves killing to eat it. I would then have to clarify in a statement that it's actually a satire of the weirdo masochists out there who love food only in proportion to the pain that it inflicts on them, and I wanted to show how no one in their right mind would want that. My point being that morals are like any other taste in food, movies, or music. Despite all evidence to the contrary, people believe that we all feel good when helping others and feel bad hurting others, but no: through whatever combination of nature and nurture, some people genuinely find evil to be good. As it is with those who crave spicy foods, some people take genuine pleasure in suffering, and will therefore spend their whole lives promoting it. It isn't that fascists believe that fascism would maximize wellbeing, no: they know it will cause misery for everyone; that's literally what's so appealing to them. And they don't understand how people could fight against that, when, from their perspective, the pain is so, so good. That's what we're up against.
The more I learn about it, the more I think 40K is basically the best steelman argument you could ever make against fascism's central fantasy: the ultimately strong, wise, powerful, aggressive, benevolent leader. The Emperor of Mankind is literally the best authoritarian you could want: he's a legitimate ubermensch, with literal superpowers which let him single-handedly restore interstellar travel to humanity, and an unparalleled intellect with which he can construct all manner of tech and supersoldiers to defeat actual barbaric warlords in the uniting of humanity under his empire, and he genuinely does have the benevolent--if expansionist--interests of the entire human race at heart, and in the process of his conquest is in fact defending all of humanity from actual alien invasions. And 40K says "The ultimate consequence of such an impossible man, such as you fascists yearn for unceasingly, would be that once he was killed, as autocrats of all kinds almost invariably are eventually, the glorious, species-encompassing empire he built could not possibly maintain itself without him; yet because of the extraordinary initial success of the superman's conquest during his lifetime, it could take centuries or even millennia for the systems he set in motion to fully collapse into corruption or despair, during which time the ruling class's desperation to maintain the fallen leader's crumbling legacy would reduce the vast majority of the human species to a level of debasement and misery we can scarcely imagine."
Essentially. Its more theocratic feudalism/fascism (Eastern Roman Empire) than true fascism but close enough for government work in both regards.
That was always the point of 40k. It is Satire.
To keep it simple because tbh, I think this comment is long. I am new to 40k but I can make some approximations.
Grimdark is never a ‘good’ genre. There is no good in the genre because all the good people are either dead or out of the story, be it sealed, mind fucked, body fucked or whatever else. In that sense, the idolization of the Imperium is at its root is basically worshipping a talking dead guy, which is a literal south park episode. There is no purity in 40K, there is no good. It is clear cut, everyone is evil. I am going to play the Tau, but even the Tau are not good. They have a caste system, that is all you would ever need in your modern, geopolitical context to dismiss it as bad. It is indeed the best steelman of being anti fash, but to keep it simple it is not because ‘oh lol the autocrat can die because assassins tend to that and shit collapses.’. In fact, dis that ever reliably work for all kings and queens? Sometimes, but not always. If the Emperor was replaced by Gulliman like in the story, it would at least be progress and be a much better political situation.
Case in point, 40k has a facism problem because facists don’t understand media comprehension, as Vaush would say. I agree. I would love to write 40k stories, but even my Tau army cant be the good guys. They cant be. Because the setting is grimdark. If you want some good and maybe some power fantasys, watch shonen anime. Otherwise, idfc, 40k is the one reason why you do not want authoritarianism and irrational belief to take hold leading to idealic bigotry, racism, systemic discrimination etc etc and the one reason why you should never lead by cult of personality. No way. Even in a science fantasy grimdark, mind you, is that it is so unrealistic, GW had to spell it out it in black and white so these fascists can ‘get it.’ And even then, I do not have my hopes up too high.
@@twenty-fifth420 "this comment is long, lemme make it simple" - proceeds to make a longer comment
No matter how bright the rays of any Sun King, no man rules forever.
*Breaking news*
Games Workshop says "Fascism is bad, and people who are fascist are bad"
Many are shocked and angry
In other news, Battletech Clans memberships up 1000%. Batchall refusals at all time high.
GW should be making games, not public service announcement.
@@mikek9297 They already made that game, this is just a fanbase update. Feeling targeted?
@@CatsNChickens Oooh, you really got him, fascist exposed.
Yeah bruv, maybe people just don't like being treated like they're figurative special needs children who need to have "bad thing is bad" spelled out for them.
@@thosebloodybadgers8499 Seems like only the people that did need it spelled out are upset. Also who are you to put words in that guys mouth? you all have meetings about this shit or something? Maybe people just dont like fascists, bruuuuuv.
The subtext, the text, all the illustrations, the title page, the table of contents, the index, the foreword, the dedication, the front cover, the back cover, the spine-
@Nobody lol they have a lot of genocidal paperwork for illiterates
@@EllaKarhu I think they just look past the intent and enjoy the fashy asthetic unironically.
Kinda like cops who have the Punisher logo on shit. You and I know that makes no fucking sense. The cop is just fantasizing about vigilantee murder.
@Nobody idk i can read it and i dont understand any of the language
@@JassZoigel that makes no sense...
@@dallasmoorenumberone nope, numbers are shared, many words are similar plus google translate
In an interview, one of the core 40k lore writers Dan Abnett says that one of the early inspirations for the imperium was the dystopian hell hole of Margaret Thatcher's Britain in the 1980s. This was the same time period in the UK that also gave us media like Judge Dredd.
A future where everyone is British, the actual nightmare.
Gaszzy is literally named after Margaret Thatcher. "Mag uruk thraka" is just a alternate pronunciation if her name.
Us Scots celebrated her death lol
@@mrgaudy1954 As hard as this may be to believe many of us English celebrated too. The song 'Ding Don the Witch is Dead' didn't get to no. 1 in the UK charts at the time purely on Scottish purchases.
@@alejandrorivas4585 I remember reading a tweet (or facebook post? it was years ago, I'm not sure) by one of the core writers (maybe Abnett) saying that it's not the case. He explained that Ghazgkull's name is actually based in Tolkien's Black Speech and concluded with something along the lines of "we already had enough of Thatcher in our reality."
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face-for ever."
― George Orwell, 1984
I don't think that quote reflects our current reality tbh. Rick Roderick has a good reply to it: "Orwell’s vision of a horrible future which was a boot stomping on a human face forever is a utopian image because he assumes there would be resistance and human faces; both of which may turn out to be false."
Literally
The only part he got wrong was the boot / knee
@TERROR BILLY
Can’t stand seeing this quote anymore
Literally Jeorge Owen's 1969
The fact we‘re surprised that an open condemnation of nazi ideology gets widespread support says a lot, but I‘m happy nonetheless :)
It's like getting a text from your estranged abusive father letting you know he's celebrating 2 years of sobriety today, and he wants to know how you're doing
If you’re around 20K forums and subreddits for long you’ll see custom-modded nazi armys are common 😅
Hate to burst you bubble but it's very likely just Reddit being Reddit (giving control of the discussion to the IP owner and clamping down on what you're allowed to discuss). The only news here is that they're successfully doing it to a heavily Nazi-larping influenced community now. This could work in the short term, but it feels like trying to put a bandaid on a cancerous tumor.
@@NotCthulhu So basically we're only getting the opinions of people who haven't been banned from a moderated community then?
@@NotCthulhu The mere fact that Nazi sympathy was outlawed on this kind of platform is an improvement from where things were around five years ago. There was a time when the subreddit of this kind of hobby would have felt no need to do that.
I worked for GW in the nineties when they were still based. We did occasionally get some very strange sorts in the store, who seemed to take a deal of pleasure in some of the aspects of the background. At the time, because these were the old days where everyone was without internet and indoor toilets and nobody lived past twenty years old before dying of a headache, we were genuinely confused by these people, and as we got to know them, we gradually banned them from the store. We didn’t want their bullshit, especially considering we also had kiddies and their parents in the store, notwithstanding the actual revulsion we felt for these misfits.
We were a bunch of hairdyed misfits who liked wearing leather jackets and smoking cigarettes - absolute hardcore rebels, in other words - and we very much knew that there was a minority of people that didn’t actually understand a single thing, both about the background material as well as how human beings actually work. They thought it was Wehrmacht fanfic. It wasn’t - it was a piss-take of the right wing in particular, and authoritarianism in general.
It seems that some of those awful people went on to set up a TH-cam channel where they could double down on how there are no blacks and no trans people in WH40k. They were then, and remain now, absolute simps for genocidal pussy. But, and this is important, the vast, vast majority of people were just passionate, engaged (and, as a result of how things were priced, increasingly impoverished) people who just had an absolute blast playing games with us and each other.
In short, when they say “we’ve said it before” they mean it. A fash who thinks 40k includes them is an idiot. It does not. You are the butt of the joke. Fuck off, nazi. It was true back then, and it’s true now. Fuck off, and don’t come back ever.
Re: GW specifically, It’s not necessarily got more progressive; it’s just had to be more explicit about it due to Nazi fucknuts claiming that the imperium have “the right idea” and glorying in how there are no blacks (despite the tallarn and the salamanders being a thing - and the red eye thing for salamanders is relatively new, they used to just be black dudes).
I bet that doofus Arch is weirdly outraged at this.
Edit: he’s literally crying about it live as I type this lmao. Sargon is there too; Also oddly upset for an avowed non fash.
Never forget that GW forced him to drop the warhammer in his name. It gets funnier and funnier as time goes on.
"BUT I AM APART OF THE IMPERIAL MASTER RACE! I KNOW I AM" -Starch Soyhammer
Sargon doesn't actually play these games. I remember when TheQuartering and Sargon got really upset when Wizards banned certain "racially insensitive" MtG cards like it was the end of the world. What they left out is that the cards in question could very easily afford to be banned because the card design in general was severely outdated (Either they focused too much on color matters design or were massive color pie breaks that didn't see any play).
@@blackknightjack3850 literally the only one that even was close to seeing play was crusade, and even then it was super fringe
@@Personvids As in they literally contacted him and told him "Drop the Warhammer in your name or we're going to sue you" or him getting so upset with GW's first statement about hate that he did it voluntarily?
This is like if people had to inform fans of Huckleberry Finn that slavery is indeed bad
Sadly in parts of America you have to explain that to them.
German kid here, all I remember is friendship. Lol I just let some weird stuff pass I guess...
@@doc7000 People tend to forget this, or all too often undersell just how true it is
@@doc7000 I was about to say, i thought there was a pretty recent controversy where people didnt understand this somewhere in Florida or something.
The incident that kicked this off I read about earlier today. A non GW tournament had some guy show up in a swastika shirt introducing himself as "Austrian Painter" and when criticized the tournament organizers put out a press release saying "now we don't like fascism, but isn't silencing someone's freedom of speech the real fascism?"
Thats not really a freedom of speech issue its a private event.
No thats not fascism. Conflating not accepting or approving of fascism as a form of fascism is just plane silly.
@@raak4070 unfortunately in Spain it turns out that ideology (including nazis) are actually a protected class so the tournament organisers legally couldn’t kick the fash out, which sucks big time.
@@Vin_Venture896 thats nuts
@@Vin_Venture896 The spirit of Franco lives on!
it's really funny, that ppl who claim not to be facists/nazi/far-right will cry out discrimination every time something like this happens. and i hope we see more of these: creators and companies telling clearly that they will not support far-right ideologies.
"it's really funny" is the most Karen-level passive aggressive take ever.
Yes, innocents tend to cry out discrimination when they're accused without basis of something they're not, that's common sense for anybody but lunatics seeing nazis under every bed.
@@Mant111 The right has no clue what Karen means
@@ashfox7498 Neither does the far left about what a nazi is.
@@Mant111 Bud, they literally just said you won't be allowed in ternies if you wear a swastika. If you feel oppressed by that, may want to learn what that funny cross on all your shirts is.
@@Mant111 This whole thing is because a guy calling himself "Austrian Painter" walked into a tournament in a Swastika shirt. Nice cope but it's fabulously easy to identify Nazis when they crawl out of the woodwork to cry and seethe how everyone is being called a Nazi when anyone ever condemns Nazism.
As a huge warhammer nerd it really blows my fuckin mind that people don’t get that fascism is awful lol
If you’re main character/faction is satire of fascism, then fascists well flock to it not knowing, same with Starship Troopers.
@@Victor-vf4tl Starship Troopers wasn’t satire originally the book is straight up propaganda, the movie turned it into satire. So I can see a situation where a fascist that reads the book doesn’t see the satire of the movie. One thing that I have learned is that fascist like to read a lot.
As a human being capable of empathy and compassion it really blows my fucking mind that people don't get that fascism is awful lol
I saw an article posted on Twitter about the Gears (soldiers) in Gears of War being tools of a declining fascist government and so many replies were outraged that games journalists were making stuff up and inserting politics in their totally neutral, fun macho shooter game. Some of them were genuinely oblivious. Worrying stuff.
@@hyperionman420 Rightwingers aren't known for their deep understanding of media.
I don't actually play Warhammer, but even I was able to puzzle out that the world of Warhammer was explicitly made so that there is no good guy. It's unfortunate, but there really are a lot of right-wingers who not only don't understand this, but are upset that GW had to come out and say something so obvious. At least it's nice to make fun of them, though.
If you're a little slow it's easy to just automatically assume in a setting with aliens and humans that humans are supposed to be the protagonists and thus the good guys
Aren't the communist space elves ok?
@@ashfox7498 That's TRUE, but anyone who's a Warhammer "fan" doesn't know much about the lore if they think that the Imperium of Man is synonymous with humanity. IMO they admittedly don't explore this enough, but the IoM is the LARGEST human faction, NOT the only. The Codex book says that there is just about any kind of planet you can imagine, ranging from a planet that's almost exactly like current-day Earth, with many different countries and limited space travel, to "feudal worlds" that have regressed to having technology less advanced than ours, to multi-planet or multi-system empires or alliances. Any of those can be part of the Imperium, former Imperium world's that became independent after the Imperium straight up forgot about them, because there are just too many planets to keep track of, worlds that seceded from the Imperium and won the ensuing war, ancient (30k or prior) worlds that the Imperium is not even aware of, ect.
Tl;dr, not only is the IoM the bad guy, they are often fighting against other human factions who are more or less the good guys.
@@manjackson2772 the tao?
"in the 41st millennium, there is only war"
Morons: "damn sure sounds great!"
I’m just waiting for the “Vaush becomes a full time Warhammer TH-camr arc”
The first person to finish [insert Warhammer game here]
Arch Vaushammer?
It'll die faster than Sh0e's redemption arc
/s
My first actual in person experience with the 40k fandom was walking into a games workshop store and meeting an employee named pablo who was just super excited to introduce me to the fandom and lore.
That’s just about everyone in the hobby but there are a few bad apples - did you get into it? :)
@@HistoritorJimaldus Honestly he was so nice and excited about the lore and shit that I couldn't leave without buying the starter guide that comes with a little space marine. Can't really afford to get into the tabletop game but I did buy 40k space marine and vermintide and just fucking love the lore. Once I get my money up I'll get some books and fully get into the fandom, thanks Pablo.
My first experience was one of those actual Fascists who simp for the Imperium of Man.
He was damn good at making short films though, so I had to tolerate him.
You know you have a baby brain when you attach you entire personality to a game that satirizes fascism. These people can't even see it.
literal brainlets
I like people like Arch and The Quartering who have been very publicly rebuked by the actual game manufacturers but still talk about the product that wants nothing to do with them.
That's because fascism is an inherently retarded ideology.
@@TheOutsider69 Yup.
Some of these people have come into the comments and are very offended despite insisting that they aren't that kind of person.
Hm…I wonder why so many people who “aren’t fascists (or racists, or homophobes, or transphobia, etc.)” cry about their “free speech being taken” and being “discriminated against” when it’s people being called out and excluded for bigoted or fascist behavior 🤔
A couple years back, Benjamin Dixon did a great episode of his show about this kind of behavior something to the title of "When will free-speech absolutists speak up against Nazis?"
You're not the only one who thinks it very weird and suspect that certain types of people only frame things as free-speech violations when it comes to fascists getting what they deserve.
Because those terms are so broad that you cannot define them so it gives great power to people who get to decide what exactly is fascist or racist or transphobic etc.
@@VMonkies Link to video please. Sounds interesting.
@@yunix2396 everytime I try to link something in TH-cam, the comment gets automatically deleted. The best I can do for you is to tell you to copy and paste the quote into TH-cam's search bar and it should bring it right up. Sorry.
Or just search for Benjamin Dixon in general, his channel is great and there's a ton of other stuff he's done that is also worth listening to.
Ask them, they're throughout the comments lmao
My friend is a conservative and he's annoyed by the message
@@ulissesarredondo8674 his friend will probably wonder into oblivion, or join with others that are of similar mindset. None of these are good. I would tell his friend to seek help. This all assuming this dude is telling the truth...
Must be a fash then
@@s7robin105 based friend
@@ulissesarredondo8674 He's a nice guy and politics doesn't often come into our relationship, but yeah he does have some backwards opinions.
@@s7robin105 he's not he just believes some stupid things.
"hey you know we're making fun of fascism here right?"
The definitely-not-fascist conservatubers who "just ask questions": w-woke cringe cancel cringe we must secu-
Lol true. It’s kinda interesting how all of the “not fascist” guys on TH-cam still get really mad at people who don’t like fascism 🤔
The fact that you paused two and a half words into the 14 words made me laugh so hard I got hiccups. Lmao
@rusted metal are you genuinely asking how the imperium is fascist?
@rusted metal apart from the desire to genocide anything that isnt human, purge all "heretics", where heretic is defined as "anyone who the inquisition doesnt like", the inquisition itself having de-facto absolute authority over the imperium. The inquisition having the motto "innocence proves nothing".
Honestly if you just want to sealion pick a more ambiguous topic, the imperium is clear-cut a fascist faction.
@rusted metal why? Do you think fascism is limited to an economic system?
This is probably an statement based in a huge controversy here in Spain with a tournament called GT Talavera related to a team of Nazis not getting expelled
I think it was just the one guy, but yeah it's 100% related to that
Its kind of funny because people are now learning that Spain is full of fascists.
@@VicStrange9 Spain's political landscape is weird. It's like Jreg but in real life.
@@VicStrange9 always has been
I don't understand Spanish/italian/hungaruan/central and Eastern European white supremacy.
Im an Indian with a hindu fsther and a Muslim mother. My Muslim mother, I've just found out is 27% Italian 10% Irish and 7% English. In other words, she's half white and yet she's the brownest person in the house. My dad has pink skin and only registers as 25% Iranian. I swear, those tests are fucking bullshit. We're not Italian, but I guess a lot of Italians have North-African and Middle-Eastern blood. I've been to Madrid and seen locals who look more "Indian" than I do. I mean, just that one chick in "LA casa del papel (money heist)" looks more Indian than 50% of North Indian girls.
As someone who loves the 40K universe, this makes me incredibly happy. GW haven't been doing a good job at pointing out that the setting is a satire to the non-media savvy people who unironically decide to go "uhhh actually the imperium is right in given it's circumstances, also this is my friend Kyle who painted little red arm bands on his Kriegs, don't mind the rotational symmetry in their logo shirt design, that's just RP". The average person apparently can't be trusted to be media savvy and be able to understand the underlying message of a piece of media without having it literally spelled out.
Most people really can’t understand it tbh
This.
There’s nazi custom armies around all he subreddits and forums.
That's an absolutely true statement as evidenced by all the dipshit right-wingers who try to pretend every famous leftist creator/content in history was on their side, actually.
To be honest I feel like they have been it's just that some people are willingly ignorant. At the beginning of literally every single book and codex is that forward that always states "to live in these times is to live in the most cruel regime imaginable"
Star Wars fans are still the most guilty of lacking media literacy, easily.
nazis being purged from the 40k fandom? well then...."such is the fate of the enemies of man"
It's literally just Poe's Law.
Fascists hold opinions so extreme that satire of said opinions can't be distinguished from the real thing, apparently not even by themselves. Fascists actively WANT something like the Imperium, therefore to them, the exaggeration doesn't apply.
(and tbf, Warhammer skirts that line a lot more than other fantasy/scifi fascist empires. It's a bit "too real" while also not always making clear enough that the Imperium is actually evil - they're portrayed as working for the continued existence of mankind, after all, which lots of people perceive as a noble goal that justifies their extreme methods)
And I'm also pretty sure Games Workshop skirts that line on purpose. They're aware how big a part of their universe is fascist worshippers and incel neckbeards, so they're purposefully blurring that line where they can with plausible deniability do so.
I expect the usual suspects to start screaming that GW has “gone woke” and will therefore “go broke.”
Honestly now that i know its an anti fascist type story ill buy comics and games, but yeah those idiots are gonna go crazy
I love how at the end he described what a good lore hammer TH-camr is and it’s literally just Adeptus Rediculous
Vaush moved Arch six inches up the board and then in the psychic phase used Arch's Obnoxious Fake Accent ability to deal D3 mortal wounds to every model within eighteen inches. At least he gave us ample warning about it.
Seriously though, it is great to see that the 40k community is generally pretty good at ostracizing the fash whenever they decide to make their presence known. The fact that GW has to make these sorts of announcements is still sad though; you'd think that the satire would be obvious, but the targets of satire's ridicule often have a hard time recognizing themselves or the fact that they are being mocked.
It does open him up to Vaush's preferred enemy rule
Do facists genuinely like the idea of working in factories from birth to build tanks until all your limbs are grinded off by rusty conveyor belts
No of course not.
OTHER people will do it.
You will be the glorious chosen of the emperor in golden armor, slaying enemies and (at worst) dying glorious death sourrounded by your dying enemies.
Fascism is a deathcult without orgies.
@@JM-mh1pp facists are the people who suggest culling their own so the strong survive only then immediately piss themselves when everyone agrees and asks them to go first.
@@JM-mh1pp actually both they don't have lives so they're willing to die for some false meme sense glory
Fascists see themselves as the space marines, not the regular citizenry
@@briankenney9528 the same Space Marines who make up an extremely tiny portion of the overall population of humanity so chances of being born one are extremely slim that you're more likely to be born as Jeff Bezos relatively speaking in our current reality. Also most Space Marines die horrific deaths anyway because even though they are humanities strongest soldiers they are still just fancy cannon fodder at the end of the day like most of humanity. I think what fascists really want to be is the aristocrats and people who live at the very top of Hive Cities, people who are probably more susceptible to falling for Chaos worship because they can afford to pay off the inquisitors enough to turn a blind eye to their hedonistic activities.
Tells you a bit about the RL vs 'terminally online' divide, even when it comes to fandoms. Turns out yet again internet weirdos are not representative of the whole community. That's nice.
As someone who used to play World of Tanks I can 100% vouch that the community is toxic and leans hard in the fash direction. So glad I uninstalled that trash. What's sad is it was pretty fun early on, but got filled with the most stuck up pricks over time.
I played war thunder for a while too (not as good a game as it used to be, as a side note) and can also confirm the intense toxicity of the community. (To the level of knowing someone who's profile was identifiably feminine being repeatedly and frequently targeted for team kills at the start of matches to an absurd degree, which would mean being removed from the match entirely and possibly needing to spend in game resources or wait to be able to use the vehicle again)
I can also confirm that the people playing the German tanks had the worst teamwork by far. Make of that what you will 😉
@@dynamicworlds1 I saw people drive into water and die at the start of a match if some mod showed the enemy team having a better win rate than ours. It was super cringe.
@@BrandonConrady very different type of cringe there, but yes, super cringe.
I play World of Warships and I definitely agree that the community can be pretty toxic. For example players will report and bemean you simply because you are playing a ship type they dislike going up against. Doesn't help that a lot of big name content creators for the game are indeed toxic elitists.
I played for a while but stopped because the community is so toxic. Someone actually said to me I and my whole family should go to the gas chamber because I did not play how they liked. >_>
And Wargaming really doesn't seem interested in fixing their games community.
13:40 Actually, Oculus Imperia roleplays as in-universe characters including inquisitors and he's definitely the best warhammer lore channel on youtube and not at all fashy, since many of his scripts are essentially well written fanfiction in addition to being informative.
Actually he only ever roleplays as an in-universe historian. I seem to recall more than one video where his character gets in trouble with the Inquisition...
His character literally gets in trouble because the inquisition finds a recording he made talking about the flaws of the imperium.
In the end the inquisition can't touch him since he has Gillman patronage but they kill another historian he know that had similar thoughts.
@@Oliolli3 it's been a while tbh. I might be getting mixed up with other creators as well, but yeah it's normally the historian guy who is uncharacteristically decent to the point of sometimes being considered heretical. It is still largely a dogmatic and imperium biased perspective, at least with regards to the character's values and faith.
@@michaeltrant6113 Ah, I remember that video, it's actually excellent. Despite the roleplay the channel does it well is my point, really. It never comes off as unironically fascist enjoying. Games Workshop themselves don't always strike that balance.
I think that he treads a very well-written line between on the one hand being a loyal citizen of the Imerium, but on the other hand as a historian who has found out secrets about how bad things actually are, but can't say too much or it could get him killed.
I can see where the problem comes from: The Imperium may be a satire of fascism, but they undeniably look cool even so. So did the Nazis: A lot of people got caught up in the uniforms, the parades and pageantry. It adds a strong appeal to the politically ignorant or unengaged.
Love Vaushs coverage of 40k. Some of his best content for sure.
Of course, Warhammer isn't Driven by hate, It's driven by corporate greed.
So in short more slaanesh and less khorne.
Would it be Slaanesh or Tzeentch? Purposefully convoluted and contradictory plans and tactics sounds more businesslike than Slaanesh
@@tigerguy529 nah its definitely slaanesh with how hard theyre fucking fan animations
this comment pleases the mechanicus
WATCH BALDERMORT! He is the best lore guy and has the voice of a fucking Primarch. He gets in character, but because it seems like he loves the stuff. No clue his overarching views on stuff but comes off as super likable.
Turns out most of us aren't pro-fascism and don't actually hate one another, no matter how hard the media pushes us towards extremism.
40K Fashies: "But I thought I was a part of the master race :("
For future reference: "apart" means "not a part of" / "distant to". I think you meant "a part".
@@coladict dammit, you’re right. One sec.
I love the fact that all these weedy incels think they are the master race. Copium to the max, they are the living embodiment of insecurity.
@@lloroshastar6347 Exactly! Maybe it’s better to feel bad for them than to make fun of them… but I just can’t help myself.
@L M Plus, our education is piss poor.
Uh oh, Archwarhammer won't like this.
Arch*
GW forbid him from using the warhammer name because he’s a Facs
Arch is such a loser that he got himself spanked by Games Workshop for being a terrorist sympathizing lunatic and they sent him to bed without his warhammer.
“Hmmm, but don’t you know that excluding the nazis makes you Nazi? I’m so fucking smart”
@@babassoonist557 That's actually incorrect. GW has a ton of words, Warhammer amongst them, registered for copywrite or trademark. In this case, they came after him for a trademark violation.
While it may be fun to entertain the idea that they decided to enforce their trademark because of who Arch is in reality they have to enforce their trademarks or else they can end up losing them.
Knowing some of the people involved with writing warhammer 40k that I have met, it's influences are Dune, Nemesis the Warlock/2000 A.D., Ralph Bakshi's Wizards, the 30 years war and 1984 all blended with with psychoactive substances and punk nihilism. While Hawkwind's Chronicles of the Black Sword was playing in the background.
All over a nice cup of tea.
And yes, they are mostly anarchists and/or dark humorists.
I re-watched Wizards a few weeks ago... always a strange little journey.
The funniest part of all this is that in all online posts I’ve seen about this, there are always still people in the comments defending the Imperium. From GW. Funniest shit I’ve ever seen
I had a conversation with one dude in the comments of a lore video who said he would rather live in the 40k universe, when I asked why he said unironically 'because you have more freedom'. I asked him to elaborate, he said you can be Imperial Guard, Space Marine etc. I really wanted to think he was being ironic or trolling but I dunno he seemed to think that where we are now is some sort of dystopia where you don't really have true choice everything is decided for you. Maybe he was just dumb but he was acting like he was some truly devout fan of 40k and he understood it. I think it must of been a comment under that guy Luetin's videos (I think that's the name of the TH-camr). He does good lore videos but comes across as bit of a 'both sides' kinda moderate.
@@lloroshastar6347 Lol everybody knows that real 40K fans are known for loving their futuristic tale, precisely because contrary to what followers of other futuristic fandoms, like Star Trek as the most illustrative example, they're horrified about the prospect of actually living in it and to become "one amongst untold billions" living in "the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable".
I mean, it's in the very intro for Emprah's sake.
@@lloroshastar6347 ROFL, you can't just *be* a Space Marine. First you have to be the absolute pinnacle of human physicality... before you hit puberty. Then you actually have to pass the ridiculously dangerous tests. Then you get a decade+ of horrific surgical, genetic and hormonal alterations to your body, while your mind gets fried with psychological and hypnotic conditioning.
Space Marines aren't even classified as human after what they go through, no one in their right mind would want any of that. It is like what Wolverine went though, only cranked up to 11 and the knob broken off.
Oh yeah, and all of that, not your choice. Many tribes that aspirants are drawn from don't even understand what the stars really are, let alone what an Astartes is. It is tradition to give the demi-gods one of yours, and an honour beyond anything for the Astartes to take them. And you never get to see them ever again.
I kinda question your buddy's lore knowledge, seems really surface-level with those takes.
@@alexisglaab2572 not even surface level, it's like guy he's talking about has never seen anything related to warhammer 40k besides fan animations.
They should do what Bolt Thrower did after Realms of Chaos (it has official 40K artwork) and hop into the audience with a nazi smashing bat
YES! It shall be every man for himself....cause in battle there is NO LAW!!!
@@archangelofcoffee922 Karl Willets is an absolute sigma chad
For anyone into nerdy things and metal, check out British death metal band Bolt Thrower. Their albums "Realms Of Chaos", "Warmaster" and "Mercenary" have Warhammer art given to them from Games Workshop and not to mention GW designed their logo that they used from the second album onwards. A pretty popular band amongst death metal fans from 1989-1995 and still have a pretty active fan base beyond those years despite having broken up a few years ago. Also, one of the first death metal bands to have a female member (their bassist is the girlfriend of the vocalist.....crushing that stereotype that women "ruin" bands).
They sound based ill check them out.
If you like Bolt Thrower, check out Sacrilege (UK). Crusty doomy female-fronted thrash and a huge influence on Bolt Thrower.
Dude, basically everyone knows Bolt Thrower. They're one of the most influential death metal bands...ever.
Plus, there is no "stereotype that women ruin bands". Idk where you got that from, except maybe some of the crazy far right black metal folks? but a LOT of the more mainstream metal bands feature women, it's basically impossible to get around that at this point.
@@Tacklepig no I've heard that sentiment a ton. Just depends on where you live i guess.
Also why do you seem put off by the fact they are trying to show people the band? I didn't know about them, so i know others might be learning of them for the first time.
NOOOOOOOOOOO NOT MY HECKIN SPACE NAZERINOS
I can't believe the number of times I have been attacked for saying literally what GW said there. Literally the same words. Not an aspirational state but satire. GW creators are anti-fascists etc.
True, but I also do think it's about time left-wing artists just admitted that satire as a tool doesn't actually work. It's almost always taken at face value by Nazi's, or embraced by Conservatives. Sarah Palin is a good example, her being mocked and parodied ultimately just made her more popular.
@@lloroshastar6347 That's sadly true. Not surprising though that a parady of reality doesn't register as such with people, who have trouble pinning down reality in the first place.
Ugh, glad this went over well in the parts of the internet you hang out on. My favorite OSR author threw a massive baby tantrum and barfed up a huge screed on his blog. Kinda regretting backing his latest kickstarter now -_-'.
Once more, GW must reiterate that 40K is in fact, satire, and not an ideal to pursue. You would think Orks very obviously being a species of soccer hooligans with critical levels of toxic masculinity would be a clue, but apparently not.
Literally the only faction having a good time in the lore lol
Just a slight correction, Horus didn't turn because he saw a vision of the future and thought it was inhumane and awful. He turned because in his vision of the future there was no mention of him and his warriors and this hurt his very fragile #1 son ego. A literal galaxy-level tantrum over a bad acid trip
Supplied by literal Chaos Gods working against his father no less
If only more companies engage with its communities like this to save us from the chuds (cough cough Star Wars).
As a queer woman of possible color who has been doing tabletop on and off for about 6 years now, even in that time there has been so much growth. I remember when I started playing D&D during the summer of my freshman year of high school, I knew nobody else in my high school played and after the summer passed my group that I got into through a local hobby shop was primarily conservative white cis adult men, some of the incel-ey and faschy variety and the hobby shop was a cock-house to say the least, but most not as politically intense. Seeing TTRPG companies become more progressive and communities healthier even in that short of time brings me so much joy. I've been meaning to get back into it and it'll be nice to go into a shop somewhere and see a greater variety of people and faces. This really made me smile to see
That sounds great and really hopefull!
But I also hope that the men there who were the majority either became progressive or were encouraged to get out of the closet.
Hopefully they just didn’t migrate to more hateful echo chambers. (Maybe I’m being too cynical ^_^; )
Man i really hate myself right now. Looking back on it, how i got into war hammer was in 2017 when Screwattack at the time (now just Death Battle) released their video of Top 10 Terrifying Warhammer Monsters and thought that those were cool monsters i wanted to learn more about them, and I ended up on Arch.... hindsight is 20/20 but man the regret is heavy on my part...
Don't beat your self up it happens. As long as you didn't do anything fucked up, getting funneled down the pipeline doesn't make you a bad person.
Ya got out. That's what's important. You saw they were wrong, and changed your mind, and that is something you should be proud of, not ashamed of.
@@parrot998 i'm not ashamed of getting out. i'm ashamed of being there in the first place. but i thank you for the words of encouragement.
to err is human, and to love is blinding. It happens.
Hey don't worry about it. I also followed Arch for a couple of weeks because he seemed intetesting an fun pnly for one morning hear him rant against "SJWs" an feminists. It was so over the top I had to male a double rake to make sure it wasn't some shitty joke.
As it turned out it was just shit, no joke about it.
We all make mistakes. It how we deal with them that defines us.
I hate that Magic is associated with The Quartering now. It's overall a pretty progressive space -- that's the whole reason his channel exploded, he harassed someone out of the community and WotC gave him a lifetime ban for it. There are still plenty of incel types like the Quartering bemoaning the progressive bent of the community, but they're rightfully in the minority.
It really isn't.
The vast majority of people in the MtG community don't even know who he is.
MtG has way worse image problems than him, lol. The public perception problem lies more with "sweaty nerds and body odor" than with anything else.
(also, just saying - WotC isn't progressive for shit, they just like to pretend they are)
I find it hard to believe the Quartering is respected by anyone, he is embarrassing. Why would any community want someone as stupid and easily debunkable as him representing them.
I always imagined that at some point, after the emperor was nearly lost due to the failing of the golden throne, and after some massive effort was required to save him, he would be restored fully to life, awakening once more. Upon his return he would take a look around and his reaction would be something like "What is this? I never ordered any of THIS stuff! I only care about defeating chaos. Where did you ever get the idea I wanted you exterminating aliens? Why are you keeping our people in such conditions? If anything you're only helping chaos by sowing all this enmity and suffering. The way you've been running things is nothing like _I_ told you to. You've twisted what I said and made up other things entirely. This all needs to change." At which point somebody would declare: "False emperor! The emperor is false! Something else came back from the warp!" Kicking off a big apocalyptic civil war arc between the emperor and the people who believe in the version of the emperor that they've created for themselves so much that they wouldn't even recognize or like the real man if he returned and spoke to them. Of course I can't imagine them doing something like this unless they were looking to "end times" 40k because it would be such a huge shift in the status quo.
I can't believe we needed to put this into words...
Thank you GW to do sth actually decent in a while.
I always was under the impression we all were on the same page with this kind of stuff. I'm actually glad this didn't turn out as bad as I was afraid. Every hobby / group has assholes, but of course the setting can invite a certain group of people.... All in all a very welcome thing to see
What I find funny is that it's pretty well established that the Warp and its dominance by the Chaos gods is a product of the flaws of the Imperium / (and also blood sacrifice slave owning Eldar.)
it's kind of the fault of bassically everyone, but theecrons and eldars are to blame for it the most
arch does in-fact have a second channel, its "archcast" and today he's doing (in its 4th hour now!) a special livestream with his best friend sargon to talk about this gw statement.
Doesn't he also have his "The Lodge" channel, where I explicitly remember a video called "Islam: is it time for Draconian Measures to be used?" and him doing an 8values test where he comes out as "Nationalist Populist", or a fascist as normal people call that.
@@RaccKing21 honestly if anyone is ok with being called a ‘nationalist’, be afraid, they’re either a fascist or someone lied to them about what that means
It says many, truly disgusting things about the state of a depressing part of the population that there are people who not only don't understand fascism is bad, but *take issue with people spelling that out*.
Flak_Knight: plays 40k, plays World of Tanks
$20 says he has over 1000 hours in any game by Paradox Interactive and thinks Sabaton is a Christian band
I bet he's part of the reason Sabaton has had to clarify that Rise of Evil wasn't actually in support of the things that the Nazis were doing
I was not ready for that crack with Sabaton.
Sabaton are awesome himbos.
Okay whatever my other assumptions, dude has some fkn pog Night Goblins models on his post history so I gotta take a partial L here
I got over 1000 hours in EU4 : (
So... I feel that context is necessary in this situation.
Its not illegal to wear nazi paraphernalia in Spain. This stems from the fact that it was the only country where the fascists won and were left untouched since Spanish Civil War happened before WW2, and after WW2 ended, Spain ended up being a safe haven for nazis. After Franco's death, there was no process akin to de-nazification of the forces, political parties or judicial system, so fascism is seen in a very positive light compared to other countries. In fact, there has been scarce, if any, condemnations against Franco's regime on right-wing parties and at least one of them follows the fascist playbook, combined with our own brand of Trumpism.
Do not be surprised if in a couple years you find out that we've followed Poland or Hungary's path. Hopefully it wont fuel other countries's fascisms even further (check out Behind the Insurrections, a great podcast from Robert Evans) but ramifications could be more dangerous than expected.
Why I sell French guns to Nationalist Spain in HOI4
First of all, my tyranids are not evil. They are natural.
This reminds me when a fan told a member of Rage Against the Machine to stay out of politics
I mean, they’re fundamentally true neutral. They’re just animals.
for those interested adeptus ridiculous is a good WH40k lore channel for those interested, most painting channels are also progressive like snipe and wib, midwinter minis and miscast
For those who want to know what a fascist regime/dictatorship is like, read up on Portugal's history between 1932-74. Let me just give you examples of some of the laws put in place:
1- If you smoked and you wanted to use something other than matches to light up a cigar/cigarette (gas lighter/zippo) you needed a license to use those.
2- If 3 or more people where gathered outdoors but not in a public venue (bar, coffee shop, grocerie store, etc.) it was considered they where plotting against the government and they where arrested.
3- Unmarried women could only travel with a written permission from their father, married women with a permission from their husband.
4- Known or suspected members of the Socialist or Comunist party where arrested and sent to the Tarrafal prison, nicknamed "The Oven", in Cape Verde, where they where tortured to reveal names and locations of member of those parties.
I don’t think this was in response to rittenhouse. Recently there was some drama over someone wearing Nazi iconography at a tournament.
“40K Theories” is another much better lore channel.
You know what's interesting about the far right, at least the Western far right, is they like to claim they are devout Christians, or at the very least they like the Christian aesthetic. But they do also claim to want to live in the 40k Universe (at least those who play 40k do). But, that Universe is as close to Hell as you can get without it actually being Hell. No matter who you follow, which side you're on, unless you're one of the races unaffected by the Warp like Necrons or Tyranids you end up there anyway. When you're alive you live a life of hell, whomever you are. If you get captured by Dark Eldar or Chaos you will likely be tortured to death, possibly over decades or maybe even longer if you're really unlucky. If you get to die quickly at the hands of the Imperium, Tyranids, Orks, Eldar, Necrons or Tau you go straight to the Warp. If you live as pretty much anyone you either have a short life, a painful life or even if you have a hedonistic life you won't have a happy one. Nobody settles down and raises a family, not really, everybody just works until they die in some form or another. It's just Hell, pure Hell, and it's written that way intentionally. I'm sure in that Universe somewhere on some remote planet at some point in history people have nice lives but that's never the focus of the story itself, and also that's not what the far right are thinking of are they. They want to be Space Marines, they want to be mass murderers, its a genocide fantasy for them, but in that Universe you suffer whether you're the victim or you're doing the killing. There are no winners, that's the point. So I see it like this, it's the far right telling us they would rather live in Hell than the world we already live on, which makes sense because whenever they take power all they do is make everyone's lives worse except for those at the very top, much like in the 40k Universe. The far right are Hell fetishists, they don't worship God, they just pretend to, they worship Satan, and not the Satanic Bible version, they worship the medieval torture demon.
Makes perfect sense to me. Hell is a Christian invention. You got to be pretty far gone, if you think "Hey, how can make these people obey every rule our church has set, even when they are completely alone and no one can control their behavior? I got it! Let's tell them there is a realm of near unimaginable suffering and terror and that they deserve to be there for all eternity, if they don't obey us."
So, if you think about not what the Christian mythology is in regards to it's content, but the fact that someone made that up on purpose and decided to pretend it's real, it's pretty obvious that Christians today still like to imagine hell.
The 40K is the best depiction of why Fascism and Zealotry are bad and definitly not something you want.
There's a joke that explains this well enough:
Star Wars Fans would love to live in the Universe.
Star Trek Fans would love to live in the Universe.
Warhammer40K Fans are quite contend with how things are
For what its worth i was a regular in the GW in Wiesbaden, Germany.
The Female boss there was super nice and threw people out that werent.
In the about 3 years there i NEVER had seen anyone be an asshole.
Neither did i ever encounter hate against lgbtq+ (i am trans myself), the disabled, Women (atleast 4 regs were women) or racist shite.
If GW-shops were/are like that everywhere i would be happy.
(the only sad story i remember was a bit of vandalism started seeminy by the church next door when the shop had an "create your own demon" event advertised in the windows)
I'm only vaguely familiar with the Warhammer series and i really don't know much about it, but fascists being driven out of any community is a win in my book.
I just really wish they would do this for halo. The halo fanbase is full of violent fascists and homophobes. They look at the covenant as an example instead of a sci-fi faction.
I love halo, but i hate the fanbase
People who love to talk about “human supremacy” in sci-fi tend to dance with fascism
@@justinokraski3796 well the covenant in halo is an alien alliance hellbent on wiping humanity out of existence
But the Covenant ended up being a dysfunctional empire based on a lie, a lie that could've cause the extinction of all life in the galaxy.
Why the fuck would anyone want to use that as an example?
@@RaccKing21 the same reason these baboons look at the imperium of man and go "we need that irl"
That's interesting because the Covenant were written by relatively Conservative writer's as a stand in for Islamic terrorism, given the time they came out. This is more notable in the 2nd game than the first, but honestly I'd be shocked if Halo was dominated by left-wing writer's given the approach to the subject. I think ultimately though they are probably moderate and don't want to necessarily offend anyone, but the story is rather pro-militarist. I mean, the Spartans are super soldiers genetically modified and selected from a young age, that's eugenics. They are also all that stands between Earth and its total destruction. Plus on some super lazy level I get the impression that the Flood = communism, although clearly also inspired by diseases and parasites. Don't worry I'm not knocking being a fan of Halo, I don't think anyone should feel guilty of the art they enjoy unless it's directly and intentionally promoting harm to a real group of people, which I don't think Halo is, it's all allegory.
I'm kinda curious now, what do Arch types think of Ultramar as a society? It's no socialist society, and since it's a part of the Imperium it can't stray too far before some Inquisitor gets trigger happy, but at the same time if there is any human society in the 40K setting that is decent to live in and somewhat within our bounds of morality, it would be Ultramar
Im sure that he would prefer to live there if he had to live in that universe but he prefers Baal, just because it is so different and brutal. He had a Blood angels army because theyre the sons of the bird-boy
@@MrPlainsflyer funnily enough though the only Primarch I can think of that is less fascist than Sanguinius is Vulkan. Sanguinius was a fairly great guy, his big negatives being the fratricide forced by the Red Thirst, and zeal regarding Big E.
Also, Arch wouldn't last two seconds in Baal, both because it's an irradiated waste (and now a warp infected and Tyranid infested wreck) and because Baal’s people would both be disgusted by his apathy and physical weakness.
But hey, the satire goes over his head already, no surprise he wouldn't understand the nuances of Baal, the Blood Angels, and Sanguinius
Glad to see so many good Warhammer people especially after some have gone so mask-off fashy. For the Emperor we shall bring justice!
I have a rulebook of the classic Star Trek tabletop game Starfleet Battles from 1996 that explicitly invites women to enjoy the game, no matter what anyone else says. For some reason, this statement reminded me of that.
Also, the proper Grimdark is not meant to cater to edgelords; It's to give an excuse for ongoing war when it's best to answer to senseless violence by senseless violence.
The worst part about WH40k is that, while they are very evil (and unlike pre-heresy almost all of it is unnecessary), if you're a human they're your best option. Every other option is somehow worse.
I’d say T’au an Nurgle are both probs better options
@@thegreathim0018 Oh boy, I sure do love having all my skin rot off or being forced into an even more authoritarian system with shinier aesthetics that will also lose.
Maaaan. I can't even keep track of how many times I've seen someone like casually mention how awesome the imperium is (usually in my Stellaris fan groups funnily enough) and I try to be like "It's not though. You know that right? The Imperium is actually very awful and that's kinda the point?" And then they try to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.
I'll confess I don't know much about Warhammer, but I must say I'm really surprised that there are that many people out there who look at the Galactic Empire in Star Wars or the Imperium in 40K and unironically think "actually this is pretty based, we should imitate it IRL".
Do they fail to notice that these are all obvious satire of fascist regimes? And it's not even like they're nuanced portrayals or anything, they're cartoonishly evil. Like, "kill your own lieutenants for bringing you bad news" evil.
What's next, people stanning for the Death Eaters in Harry Potter?
The popularity of 40k amongst the far right really explains the special seething hatred for the Tau, lol.
Eldar players aren't fascists, juggalos don't get down like that
In my experience elder players like armies that ignore all the rules other people have to play by and also love sneak attacks - so tax dodgers and thieves? 🤔
@@QT5656 Disgusting mono blue MTG players
@@ashfox7498 I've not played MTG. I'll have to take your word for it.
@@QT5656 It's literally the gimmick of blue "faction",
As a newcomer to the hobby, I’m very glad that some in the community are taking a stand against hate and bigotry. I think this statement by GW was necessary and encouraging.
I am actually more inclined to explore 40K media now that GW has taken this stance and it resonates well with the majority of the audience. I have always had a bad presentiment about it in the past and it felt only more confirmed with Arch being exposed to be a literal fascist.
The community overall is pretty nice. The problem is the ones who aren't *really aren't* and they manage to taint the entire community by association.
Everything in 40k is the most extreme version of everything. The lore is great just from a "what did they decide to one-up now?" standpoint, let alone the actually good stories and characters like Commissar Cain, Ravenor and Eisenhorn.
I wonder if the nazis ever read the Cain books as not actually being satire? Those are hilarious at points.
Damn. I just got into warhammer last year. I had no idea about that Arch dude. I hate to admit, his Horus heresy book overviews are really good. That’s a shame. 😢
Yeah, his long form series on vraks and badab were also really great. Shame its attached to him and his facism so its now unwatchable
I prefer mass effect universe (lore) ,it's tolerances, diverse races that can live in harmony and a civil society. The first time I got introduced to warhammer lore I was disgusted it was at that moment I finally understood why fascists love warhammer40k, IN SHORT WARHAMMER 40K IS THE WET DREAM OF FASCISTS.and godforbids the future of humanity under fascism.
The wet dreams of fascists and the nightmare timeline for everyone else.
@@Darth_Insidious
I dont understand why there are people who dream of living in that hellhole of universe.
@@Ramtin-Blue_rose Because it proves them right.
Being tolerant there is a death sentence, being open minded invites literal demons. Questioning your own morals invites insanity and death. It truly is responsible thing (in wh 40k) to be close minded religious nutcase.
And they love it.
@@JM-mh1pp
Even in case of gender probably it's the most sexist science fiction lore out there .
@@Ramtin-Blue_rose I know.
But it does not bother me at all, there is something for everyone (sisters of battle, or Eldar ) if you try to make every faction feel inclusive you loose the element of uniqueness to that faction.
A surprise, but a welcome one
I'm so proud of Games-workshop and of the Warhammer community's response to this post and this subject. The God Emperor Trump stuff made me sad and I appreciate that they're fully and clearly pushing it out of the group.
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II is still a game I return to time and again for it's rich tactical game-play and a nice romp with the 'rines
Imperium bad????
Yes inquisitor...this man right there.
Man, non-British audiences really don’t get the irony or satire of the original 1980s game (looking at you Americans.)
They've probably never read 2000AD either
Wait, the inquisition is a BAD thing?! I'm shocked! /s
i've never been able to play 40k because well it's spendy, but i was interested and so just went to a local tourney and watched. Very cool people and game honestly. i hope i one day get to play it
Maybe try a Necromunda gang or Killteam squad? You’d only need 10-15 models which keeps the costs down a lot compared to the full 40k armies.
I only GW also understood that trampling on fan content is bad
It's taken over a decaded to get to the point they do this
I reckon it'll take a decade before they realise how they've tampled community creativity
I tried to mention that sexism exists in 40K games once and got dogpiled in the comments
SIGMARXISM
Arch is just not good at lore vids. Leutin09 has a much better style and storyteller voice
I didn't dive that deep into 40K lore, but one of the first things I learned is "There are no good guys." I guess it's easy to forget how awful the Imperium is when they're written as the protagonists for every book, though
The Tau are the good guys.
I don't think you can ever say "there are no good guys" about any setting.
You can say that all the major factions are pretty evil, but... that's just life? Like, there's also no "good guys" faction in the real world.
There's probably lots of people in the universe who could be considered good guys, they're just probably not actively part of one of the bigger factions and thus less relevant to the games.
Maybe Ciaphas Cain?
@@Tacklepig That's exactly what that means, yes lmao
@@zyanego3170 I mean, they're an imperialistic authoritarian state with a caste system and programs of eugenics, so...
I must be really out the loop to not have noticed any of this.
Always seemed like fascism and the fascists were a very small minority.
Thats because they are a non-issue.
They are a small but vocal minority
@@MrPlainsflyerthere not especially when the GOP openly advocates for fascist nowadays
I'm not surprised that it went well, honestly, I think it's a small niche of people in the 40k community that actually think fascism is good and don't see the obvious satirical badness of the imperium. It's like how must people who appreciate greek mythology and history will readily admit "oh yeah, and they were super duper gay as hell and weirdly into little boys," and only a niche group of nutjobs think they were actual giga chad embodiments of heterosexual western values.
I find it funny that one of the people who thinks the Ancient Greeks were giga chads and who has a hard on for them is my embarrassing Prime Minister Boris Johnson. Still I gotta hand it to the guy, he is very virile, has like a tonne of kids, credit where credit is due (poor kids).
Yeah, I'm a War Thunder player and I've been looking for a squad without fascists nor racists, no luck so far.
And I have my own set of russian hats IRL, most people at my university recognize me for it... And because I'm the one selling gummy bears after the OG seller started selling socks instead of candy.
Imagine thinking the 40k Universe is a cool place to live in… It’s even a meme in the community at this point.
About time they told them they can Alt-right the hell off
I just want my tablebottom games
Origin of the Vaush "WTF is this" GIF aound the 12 minute mark
I played war thunder for a while too (not as good a game as it used to be, as a side note) and can confirm the intense toxicity of the community. (To the level of knowing someone who's profile was identifiably feminine being repeatedly and frequently targeted for team kills at the start of matches to an absurd degree, which would mean being removed from the match entirely and possibly needing to spend in game resources or wait to be able to use the vehicle again)
I can also confirm that the people playing the German tanks had the worst teamwork by far.
If I were to satirize spicy food by saying there was a dish so spicy that it sent people into week-long comas and told a story about people who would kill to eat it, some real people would find that story aspirational. Like, "someday," they would hope, "we'd be able to make a dish that spicy," and they really could envision themselves killing to eat it. I would then have to clarify in a statement that it's actually a satire of the weirdo masochists out there who love food only in proportion to the pain that it inflicts on them, and I wanted to show how no one in their right mind would want that.
My point being that morals are like any other taste in food, movies, or music. Despite all evidence to the contrary, people believe that we all feel good when helping others and feel bad hurting others, but no: through whatever combination of nature and nurture, some people genuinely find evil to be good. As it is with those who crave spicy foods, some people take genuine pleasure in suffering, and will therefore spend their whole lives promoting it. It isn't that fascists believe that fascism would maximize wellbeing, no: they know it will cause misery for everyone; that's literally what's so appealing to them. And they don't understand how people could fight against that, when, from their perspective, the pain is so, so good. That's what we're up against.