Toyota GR86 Long Term Update and Changes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ม.ค. 2025
- We discuss the updates, changes, and future plans for the 2022 Toyota GR86 Long Term Project. In this video we detail stage 1 modifications that are affordable and helpful on street and track. We talk to race car driver Britt Casey Jr. about how the car feels modified vs stock and drive it on the street.
The other cars that will be compared, are ND2 Miata, S2000, BRZ, Nissan Z, Supra in future videos.
#toyota #gr86 #carbuild
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Mark blowing away the budget on fine dining
Red lobster is a guilty pleasure
Mark dining away the budget on fine blowing.
Unlimited Cheddar Bay Biscuits!
*Red Bull has joined the chat*
"Fine dining" LOL. Glad Red Lobster is gone.
Cannot express how grateful I am for the technical info. I've bought 2 cars based on their reviews. I think this will be my third. No one does reviews better than Jack and Mr.Goose
which cars?
I miss Turbowski
Don't worry about video length Jack! I am soaking up every second of this as I am looking at similar mods/track duties.
As we all know quality over quantity ;)
100 % agree with your statement.
If I bought this car, I would do zero mods. It's perfect stock.
LOL the first thing I thought 21 minutes?!
Wish it was 45 min
I love the way you guys point out the weak points of the car as well as the strong points. I am very interested in getting one of these and It really helps to get a well rounded overview..... Thanks!
I've driven the new BRZ a few times, it is so fun. Great choice of car
Commenting for the algo, great job Jack!
Even though I’m not in the market for one of these, its such a treat to have you guys do a long term owner breakdown video like this. Alot of good information and insights, especially the track segment chat w Casey. I can see alot of first time buyers and trackday rookies getting benefit from this series. Great stuff as always!
Algo comment here too. Can't wait for the upgrades-real comment.
@@MikeF055 Same for algo, I'm a gti guy but this car makes me think it's like a more reliable (obviously slower) porsche for half the price. Waiting for the economy to stabilize to either buy a 2008 base c6 coupe or this gr86
These vids are so helpful!
Thanks a lot for doing these in-depth updates on this platform!
Gosh, I much prefer when channels review cars while also considering common and relatively affordable modifications. Sometimes the stock car needs just a little aftermarket help to really shine; ignoring that fact is often a disservice to any comparison. Thanks and keep it up!
I love sensible wheel sizes with a good amount of side wall on it. It just looks meaty and serious.
No they’re too small it looks goofy
@@user59371 No they're fine. Better that than the giant hotwheels dubs you get on most cars with the rubber painted outside.
@@thomaschristopherwhite9043 If you aren’t into aesthetics or anything sure
I personally prefer the look of 17s over 18s on this platform. Anything larger than 18 is gaudy as hell, in my opinion. As always-to each, their own.
@@craig9365 well unfortunately for you, nobody agrees (at least nobody that can afford new cars) so we’ll continue to see large wheels, as they should be.
Great stuff guys! So excited to be a part of this build series and to have more offerings for this chassis soon. Impressive car for the money and even better with choice modifications!
Oh really... interested in new offerings 🤔
You guys need to be first one to bring CF wheels to the regular consumer.
Are these the 17x9 +38 or 17x9 + 42?
@@sl0907 These are 17x9 ET42! The higher offset ARC-8 can work on the gen 2 cars but there is limited inner clearance around the rear fenders so wider tires may scrub the fenders. We have Gen 2 Specific forged wheels en route that take this into account.
-Tom
@@apexwheels any plans to offer the VS-5RS in 17x9 ET~42 to remove the need for a spacer on the ET48 version?
I'm really surprised it's so thirsty. Allowing for the conversion from US gallons to imperial gallons, that's within a few per cent of the fuel consumption I get in similar-speed mixed running from my 1990 300hp Porsche 944 Turbo. And that's a low compression two-valve engine with a second-generation mahoosive turbo on it.
How tall is top gear? Porsches are pretty notoriously tall geared. BRZ intentionally has closer ratios for fun factor
@@noahkim8377 yeah it's a shame that the one major downfall is a one you might not necessarily expect. These run on premium to boot
It's pretty bad the supra gets way better fuel economy with double the horsepower. I've personally never seen a boxer engine get good mpg though
Yikes, I thought the EPA estimate might be conservative like it was on the first gen. EPA says 22/29, but I routinely hit 33 mpg on long back road trips driving the post refresh BRZ mk1 with the manual transmission and lower final drive ratio.
@@noahkim8377 the gearing might be causing it? Idk. Could be tuning or something.
I had a car that did 250 miles per tank, if you use it for traveling and long term, the frequent fill ups do get annoying. Not a deal breaker for some but something to consider. Depending on how it's being used, the car does give you alot.
It was probably a Ford. That's my guess.
I drove my ND MX5 across Australia. There were a couple of moments in that trip where I got pretty close to being on empty before the next petrol station (areas where there are 200+kms without a petrol station). If the BRZ is roughly 35% worse. It might get you into trouble on longer road trips. Hell my 987.2 Cayman and 370Z gives equal of better fuel economy. Fuel is also is also getting more expensive. Double the price compared to two years ago. No it wont stop people from buying the car. But its pretty bad to have that bad economy out of a 4 banger in 2022.
This was the part about the review that surprised me the most. I have an 18 BRZ and will typically get about 600 km (350 miles) on a road trip. Is the new one really that fuel hungry? Jack did say mostly freeway / country road too.
@@OGS2099 it was 2003 Nissan Sentra Se-r. It had bigger 2.5 liter engine with a tank for 1.8 liter engine.
I think the fuel economy can be a deal breaker depending on how much one drives. Rather make the extra effort for the 6 cil supra if you are gonna spend a ton on gas anyways…
Thank you so much for your videos, definately one of my favourite channels. Im always invigorated in my passion for sports cars and driving after watching your channel
Im looking forward to more GR86 content
Thank you for 5k/6k mile update. I am picking up my Neptune Blue GR86 Premium in two weeks. Got it at MSRP thankfully (502 miles away though so road trip).
Roadtrip and half your break-in will be done!
@@HandsomeAlex25 very true, no cruise control for the first 1,000 miles, I will be changing speed and gears to vary the rpm
Which dealership was this?
@@Briguy288 I will tell you after I pick up the car
@@CruiseControl1 that sounds fair to me
Longer content is my jam from bomb creators like you my homie.
Three months in, my GR86 already has a dented hood because of a rock on the highway hitting the light aluminum hood and rock chips in the front because the paint is paper thin. I haven't got hood flutter over 75 mph but the stupid turn signal stock does glitch out from time to time making my turn signals take on weird timings. When my break in period was done and I needed an oil change (free that comes with the car, my local Toyota dealer didn't have the necessary parts so I had to go to my local Subaru dealer and pay them for an oil change. Finally, the primacy tires have trouble keeping grip even on a dry road with the increased power so I really need to save up for winter tires because I know the primacy tires won't be able to handle snow at all.
Sorry to hear that. I had a first gen for nearly 4 years and it definitely needed a repaint on the front bumper a year or two in, 50:50 split on highway and street driving.
PPF on the front bumper and hood minimum is a must if you need pristine paint.
Front end really does love rock chips. I avoid highways whenever I can because of it. The Primacys are fun when it's warm and dry but add a little rain and they really lose their shit. I'll be throwing some Continental Viking Contact 7s on a set of first gen wheels for the winter.
)
That's just a sign telling you to get a carbon fiber hood, it's a lot more dent resistant :D, oh, and get paint protection.
@@gwot Or a bra. I don't think this car would look bad with one.
love ya work
Your suggestion regarding the stereo system was SPOT ON! I have the base model BRZ and by turning off all the digital enhancements and keeping all the other settings flat the base stereo is quite fine. Anyway much much better than with the various “enhancements”
If you're going to get a dedicated track wheel/tire combo, the base model 17" wheels with all-seasons seems like a huge cost saver. Even if they don't get better fuel economy, they're cheaper and should last 50% longer than the PS4s.
Should be noted the base car's Primacy HP tires are actually not All-Seasons, but Grand Touring Summer tires. They have absolutely no grip in the wet, and it gets worse in the cold.
That's why Xbox 360 is better
@@danlee3939 having driven this car on the 17’s since February, the car does not hydroplane or feel upset when you don’t want it to in the wet or cold. Like any rear wheel drive car, you can slide a whole lot more on wet pavement. I specifically wanted the base model because the sidewall means comfort, the primacies are cheaper and are more suitable for low-speed drifting. The car is controllable 100% of the time and there is never a time you don’t feel the grip you’re supposed to and there are times where I’ll be living out my initial D fantasies around every corner with no issues. Buy the primacies if you want to have fun
The initial review sums it up well: get the 18s with the pilot sports if you are more interested in grip, get the 17s if it’s to have fun and for more comfort.
@@rene5871 I remember the old console flame wars back from 2007. Damn I feel old.
You guys and this channel kick ass. Subs may be slow to be where we all know they should be at, but people will be digging through all this content until the sun turns it off ;)
Very informative. The low fuel economy is a bit confusing though, because quite a few reviewers have gotten mpg approaching that of previous gen. One reported getting close to 35 at ~80 mph, albeit on BRZ. Not sure if the wider wheels and stickier tires had an impact.
Yeah his numbers are unrealistically low unless he was redlining every gear daily all the time
Those Apex wheels are beautiful on this car
Lot of value in this video for us Brits patiently waiting for ours to arrive. Thank you
Can you discuss how you approached the break-in period, as well as oil change intervals/oil weights with track use?
Harder break in varying RPM and load. 5w30 for track.
@@savagegeese jack what is your justification for this harsh type of break in?
@@odinikita4821 maybe this th-cam.com/video/xpoglovyy_8/w-d-xo.html
@@odinikita4821...Subaru uses a thinner oil, from factory, to achieve a better mpg rating. Let the car get to operating temp before taking it higher in the rpm range. Don't keep it at the same rpm for long periods of time (i.e. no 65mph cruise control road trips for 40+ miles. The thicker oil will help absorb heat better around the track and not break down as fast as the thinner oil. Key is getting the engine to operating temp before romping on it.
@@K03sport Sounds like Subaru could replace the oil with WATER and they would still get poor fuel economy. Very disappointing.
Thank you for not playing crap music over everything. And thank you for not using hyperbole and crazy zooms and cartoon effects
I’ve had my GR86 since February, and my experience is much like Jack’s. I took my car stock to the track and boiled over the fluid shortly before the pads faded away. The hood flutter for me is violent at 114mph, but I’ve seen that figure fluctuate between 80 to 120 within the community. There’s also an annoying issue with the buffeting at highway speeds. Also, The aftermarket is still really expensive and limited, but I’m waiting for ohlins to release our generation specific shocks because I think the car badly needs a good strut.
I may try to experiment on the hood flutter when I get mine in. An extra metal rib that weighs a 1/4 of a pound could do wonders for the stiffness and changing the resonant frequency.
may i ask you what's your mpg been? im interested in one but would be my daily driver and the mpg might be a dealer breaker for me, specially with the current ga prices...
@@espatecfuet7968 sure. I drive like a baboon 90% of the time and live in NYC, the car is also a daily. Over 4500 miles, I’m averaging 21.2 MPG. Jack said he’s getting 24, but I’m sure that’s more cruising on a highway + track and baboon driving than I do in a massive metropolitan area. If you’re hyper focused on fuel, i did a normal drive with mainly highway driving into NJ, averaging about 33mpg.
@@Salvaba okay, thank you very much for your answer and adding the detail of your drive to NJ!
@@happyambush1 Yeah, but it's a little shocking that wasn't engineered out of the car during the R&D phase in the first place. It's a bummer that Subaru & Toyota managed to make the steering feel worse too, they had perfect steering before so why did they mess with it? Some little frustrating things for otherwise a wonderful car.
Love to hear an update on the GR86. I have been on a list to buy one for 6 months. Finally got the call this weekend they have a build date. So stoked.
“At Red Lobster enjoying an Admiral’s Feast” 🤣🤣👍‼️‼️
Another point about the fuel efficiency of the 86/BRZ twins, is that theses cars, like so many small displacement sports cars, require premium fuel to operate fully to their potential. So go ahead and add another roughly 30% or more in fuel costs than a "normal" car, which places them near pickup truck territory.
I have driven these and they have no power at all--especially HWy--mid range to top end--NADA.I have a Kona N and not only was it cheaper==it would trounce this on a drg race or at a track.
MPG on my last fill up was 20.6 MPG 80% city, calculated miles driven/amount of gas. The digital info readout seems 2-3 miles on the generous side. It's a 2022 BRZ Limited 6MT driven 60% of time with fuel economy in mind (short shifting).
Ouch! That's sad.
That's terrible. Although my old 2014 BRZ wasn't great either!
@@JasonISF the car is a throwback sports car, could've engineered it to favor fuel economy but instead decided to favor squeaking out max performance, it's an amazing car for the money if you like light/well balanced RWD cars.
@@alexandram9477 yes exactly, if I bought the 'new' BRZ I couldn't care less about the fuel economy as it would only be a weekend or track car anyway. My daily driver does 50 mpg.
For comparison sake: a 2019 Type R with 77k miles is capable of 24.6MPG average, and 29-33mpg on the highway depending on conditions at 75-80mpg. Anyway, love to see what
You’ve done with this GR86. It’s giving me ideas.
Subaru is not known to make fuel efficient engines, unlike toyota. Plus it's a boxer, it could never better inline for consumption
Do you mind commenting on rev hang and throttle response? Some members of the GR86 forums swear the rev hang is a massive detractor from the enjoyment of the car, while others swear they hadn't noticed any rev hang. I assume the reality is somewhere in between. What are your thoughts?
A lightweight crank pulley will help with this.. and LW flywheel too if you're doing a clutch. Helped in my impreza rx and street cars
Rev hang is barely noticeable. To put it in comparison to the civic Si, it's night and day better.
And because the clutch bite is closer to you than it is the engine, the slight hang is actually good otherwise you'd have to engage the clutch much faster due to the distance it needs to travel to engage.
Don't worry about rev hang and if it bothers you, a lighter weight flywheel could help plus a clutch adjustment so it engages closer to the engine side.
can you do an update video on the gr86 and the silicone in the oil uptake filter and possible engine failure.. no oil..!!!!!
Just did my GR/NASA HPDE at Summit Point Main this weekend. I had Ferodo DS2500 pads and Castrol SRF fluid and experienced no fade going pretty hard and engaging ABS several times (running 540TW UHP All-Season tires); it was a hot day with peak ambient temps in the 90s. I talked to one of the other GR86 drivers in the group who ran fully stock brakes, and he experienced fade towards the end of the day despite not abusing his brakes quite as much as I was to begin with. Another GR86 driver, unfortunately, blew his engine after a single lap, and we don't yet know if it will be covered by warranty.
Definitely 100% worth doing pads and fluid as Jack said, as well as getting track insurance (Lockton was about $200 for me, Hagerty quoted about double). The extra expense provided safety and peace of mind, on top of getting full advantage of having an instructor coach me towards the limit, practicing threshold braking.
The "free" track day ended up costing almost $1k, but it was well worth it to rekindle the love of driving that DC metropolitan traffic has been eroding for the past several years.
Still surprised that Toyota, of all companies, was the one to kick start my new money pit of a hobby. I gotta say, I love what Akio Toyoda has done with the place!
UPDATE: Dealer service says it was a mis-shift/over rev that killed the engine; but the log reads what appears to be a successful shift from 3rd to 4th, followed by a spike to 10k RPM somehow.
wow what was the guy doing wrong to the engine for it to blow after 1 lap?
@@jonasbaine3538 Tracking at 8k miles on the factory oil fill seems to be the culprit; I don't think he money shifted, but that's not entirely ruled out either. His instructor told me not a lot of oil leaked out and he suspects it was low. NASA guidelines say to have fresh fluids or at least top them off for a reason, as it turns out.
@@danlee3939 shouldn’t tech have spotted that?
@@BeanyB0b You'd think so. I'm keeping in contact with the driver to see what Toyota determines to be the cause of the engine failure, and whether it's covered under warranty. Will try to remember to share that info here.
@@danlee3939 I spoke with the owner on Reddit, I pretty much broke down to him what his mistakes were in not changing the oil at 3k miles.
I'm sure you get complaints about how long your videos are (since you keep apologizing for it) so I'd like to come out and say that I appreciate the longer videos and your shared opinions.
I may not currently be in the market, but I enjoy the topic and love the sharing of knowledge and experience (coming from a fellow "mortal") xD
I second Jack's complaint about fuel economy. I was starting to seriously consider the 86 a Miata competitor for my next car, but the poor fuel mileage given the engine size, power, and weight of the 86 made it clear to me again that Miata Is Always The Answer.
I don't think I could fit in a Miata which is my one problem haha
@@isaiahkolb3801 I'm between 6'1" and 6'2" (187 cm). With the top up, I can fit in NA, NB, and ND Miatas if I tilt my head. I haven't tried an NC, but my NC's are the largest of the four.
@@isaiahkolb3801 I'm 6'1" and 225lbs and fit, not fat. I can fit just fine and I have a long torso vs. long legs. It's completely comfortable for me. Occasionally I wonder if it would be good to get that seat lowering kit. just so I get a bit more windscreen visibility. I've got an Miata RF and have maybe 3 inches of headroom in the hardtop with the stock non-Recaro seats. Once you get over the space difference from other cars, it feels fine. I did a 4100 mile scenic road trip last year and rarely did I feel too cramped. If I did, I just stopped and walked around a bit. I did at the end of two weeks start feeling the pressure on my right leg since I had to lean it against the center console so much while on cruise control, but it was a very small issue to me. Most people would never do what I did with a Miata.
I belong to the San Diego Miata Club and there are guys 6'2 in NDs, and some 6'4" in NCs. We've also got plenty of portly fellas that are a bit shorter that fit in there just fine, but I always wonder how they manage it. The best thing to do is get in it and take it for a drive. If you want a bit more clearance for your head, it's about a $300 kit that you can install yourself to lower your seat and extra 1-3/4 inches and still retain the seat slides. You can go lower if you want to leave it in a fixed position on other kits for less.
I came here just to broaden my knowledge base on the GR 86 platform. I left with a positive upgrade path for my street and track car: those very wheels and tires! 🙌 ❤
Thank you for all the hard work and time you guys put into these videos. 🙏
-Mk7 GTI track hound and German car lover
Very impressive video. I am glad you have shared this with us. I am excited to see what changes in the next installment video. Good luck and have fun sir.
Song is "Night Stalker" by Wave Saver for anyone curious. One of my all time favorite tracks.
Great video, I always liked the GR86, I couldn’t justify buying one though. The car looks great Jack. The small upgrades seems beneficial to what you are trying to achieve, I definitely wanna see more of this build. I appreciate this.
Yeah the car feels incomplete but that's the reason why it's cheap so you can modify stuff to suit to your needs.
Miata is the right pick. If you want the non-convertible or more aggressive engine the Corolla GR seems like it's going to be insane
@@TapTwoCounterspell The 86 is about fun. NA RWD is generally more fun even if it isn't as fast on track as a turbo AWD Corolla.
I couldn't justify buying a GR86 either - until I priced a new Mustang. Now the GR looks like an insane bargain.
@@zzanatos2001 For me I’d need more space, wouldn’t mind a GR Corolla Wagon.
My BRZ just arrived after ordering in Dec. It was a nerve wracking wait because I ordered the car after your reviews but hadn’t seen one much less get a test drive. Never thought I would put down $30k without a test drive! Just gotta say is Thank You! The BRZ is everything I wanted in performance.
Jack take all the time you want on these videos. I’ll be listening to help improve this amazing car
how i wish i was in your position right now
This car is all around such a good driver’s car at least in the manual configuration. I’m telling everybody I know to consider this above a Miata below a supra and below a Z car. Having driven them all my choice would be the GR 86
Miata is still better....better built/more reliable engine...as well as more fun, and a drop top is a MUST! Grandparents were too worried about me when I had such a small car, the stress was going to cause them to have a stroke, so I got the "safer" Camaro...lol.
Both of you have horrible opinions. There exists a car that is far better than all four listed and it is a Hyundai.
@@boygonewhoopdataZZ Elantra N? Or Veloster or Kona? I've driven the V on track, with Hyundai's chief car guy, and I just drove the Elantra. They are good in their own right.
Better then a miata, no.
@@fortheloveofnoise I drove a newer Miata and it was fun for a bit and I couldn’t really fit in it comfortably like I can the 86, I’m 6’0 and the Miata wasn’t for me 😅 which sucks cause I did like driving it. And it don’t think it would be the best for a daily considering the trunk space and comfortability than I get from the 86
I'm seriously stunned at the difference a track focused set of tires makes. It proves once again why tires should be the first physical mod to any car.
Tires, suspension and brakes are the first things to do on a road to track car
You can try bumping your hood latch down a smidge and moving your adjustable hood stoppers upward to help mitigate some of your hood flutter. It will make the hood sit tighter against the stoppers. Might change your fit and finish some, but that's the tradeoff.
Love this serie, keep pushing!
Is it going to be a typical subie boxer engine with ringland failure as soon as you push the power?
I just put my first 1200 miles on mine. It took 5 months to get mine on order. I also average 27.6 mpg. I live like .5 miles from work so most of my driving is in the mountains.
Shout out Autobahn Country club for supporting the channel! Would love to see them launch in the UK. I think we're ready for it
I have sold several of the new and old GR86’s while working for a dealer in the Chicagoland area. We dealer-traded for a (new gen) GR86 Premium AT in Milwaukee that I drove back around 125 miles (in January 2022) driving in intermittent stop-and-go traffic but all I-94 and I-294, averaging about 30.8 MPG. Top speed cruising was around 75mph using 93 octane.
Coil overs and a full exhaust will be my first two upgrades.
The turn signals didn’t take me long to get used to, I’ve been averaging 27mpg but I don’t redline it’s like you guys were doing, when that little arrow pops up to shift I shift.
I have a gen 1 86 and the funny thing about the MPG is for my car, I wanted extra power. So I've done headers and other bolts ons and had it tuned for e-85. And now, I'm around 200ish whp (haven't had it dynoed, just going off other ppl that have my exact same setup), which is pretty similar to gen 2, and I also get around 23-24MPG overall now. I definitely think it's worth it.
Y’all some of the best in the biz man.
@Jack, for the steering I'd recommend the Perrin lockout kit. There is also a steering caster bushing correction kit that should make a difference. I'm following your build keenly and glad you are not seeing a need for an oil cooler yet.
15:03 - THANK YOU for talking about fuel economy. You guys are the FIRST auto-outlet to talk about it. The fuel economy ratings are awful from the start, given the power this has. The fact that it under-performs compares to a CORVETTE? Insane.
It shouldn't surprise you. At highway speeds MPG has little to do with displacement, and more to do with aerodynamics. The vette is using crusing at 80hp or so same as the 86....
@@Jglivermr2 the aerodynamics are not that much worse for the GT86. The corvette is WAY wider. The engine management, rpms and bore/stroke matter more in this situation.
Even though I ordered a Camaro SS 1LE for the track, I will still be following this series closely. I really enjoy these types of vids, and this channels in-depth analysis and delivery will be fantastic. PS - try to find a SS 1LE around you, it's not as crazy as a ZL-1, but it's been called a "cheater car" in SCCA clubs for a reason supposedly. And if you throw better tires on it, it's even more incredible naturally, but it starts doing some insane times. And it's suspension, NA power, greats shifting trans, chassis, and just enough power makes it very usable.
I have actually been asking for s 1le for literally years
I'd love one as a track only car. From a pure performance perspective, almost nothing comes close dollar for dollar. But for street, I can't justify it. My rub with the camaro is the lack of visibility. The side windows are literally the height of the length my hand and rear visibility is also seriously lacking. I could also barely get my duffel bag in the trunk due to the tiny opening. Unacceptable imo for a car as big as it is. The mustang doesn't have these problems. So, mustang GT for street, Camaro SS for track.
If you do autox with the SCCA, it's THE CAR to have for F Street class. And it doesn't just stop there as per the SCCA Solo rules, with all the current gen 1LEs, you can run camber bolts and gain -3 camber up front and still run in FS class. This is because the engineers managed to put in crash bolts in their repair manual and that made it legal per the rules. This is why they call it a cheater car because not many cars in that class nor other classes can get out to -3 camber from factory.
I wish I didn't give up mine
No offense to you but do others like me get tired of people yacking about ‘track use’?
Everyone doesn’t live an hour or less from a track that’s worth a crap. I certainly don’t. I’ve been considering a SS 1LE for a while now (probably won’t buy jack due to wife ‘hating cars’) but screw this ‘track use’ or ‘street use’ crap.
To me if it’s a street legal then it’s NOT a ‘track car’. The term ‘track car’ is a word someone made up (marketers or people who were to poor to own a race car).
Hell watch Nurburgring stuff during open days. All those cars are ‘track cars’ 😂.
Watching this video and imagining the aftermarket possibilities reminds me of the days before marriage, mortgage, and kids.
So, does the fluttering hood indicate that air is getting stuck under the car? Could be an argument for some sort of aftermarket hood vents. Apparently fuel economy is worse than a Civic Type R, not to mention worse than my 2010 Boxster S? That's disappointing.
BTW, Mark should be able to store his Man Supplies in the compartment at the back/top of the central console in the S2000.
May I ask a general question, via tuning? I have a vintage 2015 Corolla S (not trying to make it a Ferrari) and want the handling improved. Is an front H-brace and a different rear sway bar a good place to start? Will it make a true difference at speed and corners? NOTE: I have the Eibach pro kit and it's already made a great difference. I currently have to put on an Eibach pro kit and a rear stabilizer bar [Anyone, please respond]. Thanks to all.
I realize that the car was not about MPG to begin with but it's a bit unfortunate that it has such underwhelming fuel economy considering the power output. Also good to see CSG mentioned- I've gotten a lot of help from Mike a few yrs ago when I was still interested in modifying cars :)
Car's too heavy, unfortunately. Too much tech. Aftermarket might be able to bring this car down for weight considerably.
@@12ealDealOfficial Moderate weight differences have little effect on highway fuel economy. Once a mass has been accelerated, it wants to keep moving, however large a mass it is. Fuel efficiency is determined by speed, aerodynamics, and to some extent the engine. Efficiency at 80 mph always suffers compared to lower speeds, so it's possible this could squeeze out 30 mpg at 50-60 mph. Some have noted that the short sixth gear means the engine is turning over needlessly fast at 80, and that is inefficient. I don't know the numbers, but that's certainly possible. It's why modern autoboxes are more efficient than manuals.
Subaru is not known to make fuel efficient engines, unlike toyota. Plus it's a boxer, it could never better inline for consumption
What about the rtv sealant issue?
Love the content, this has to be the most regular people automotive Chanel of all TH-cam
Nice update video.
I really liked Britt's involvement in discussing the car.
Excited to see how this car (project) evolves and how you enjoy it.
If there's some of you guys that have some mechanical DIY ability that want this car, but can't afford it or don't want payments, check out the 128i with a manual. Get sport seats as well if you can. Yes you will need to do some maintenance and it will need more of it down the road.
But for 1/4 the price, you get a fairly reliable inline 6 that actually sounds good, gets better MPG than the 86, and has lots of cheap brake and handling options from other BMWs, and with headers it sounds 1000x better the 86, and with 3 stage manifold and tune it's probably faster.
Not only that, but it uses actual hydraulic steering and the feel is amazing.
The turn signals work the SAME AS ANY OTHER TURN SIGNAL lmao it just doesn't stay in the up or down position when you're done turning it on. It is functionally the same as any other turn signal. People keep getting hung up on what it does after your hand leaves the stalk when it literally makes no difference because your hand isn't on it anymore. it's tripping people up psychologically, but there is no difference in function or interaction.
Just hit 3k on my 22 BRZ and I regularly get 25 mpg city (suburban Chicago driving) and when I add in some highway miles, I'll see 27 mpg. Calculated by me at every fill up, not the car.
I love you that you calculated it instead of the car, too many people rely on the car's reading for their fuel economy rather than calculating it themselves
@@mistamaog yep, the calculation these car do is generous. In mine it's usually 1-2mpg higher than the actual. But, at the same time, the "remaining miles" is always way lower than it should be.
Subaru's mpg calculator is a least 10% high (at least it is in my WRX)...never had higher than 31, yet the car constantly says 33-35 on the tank and 34-38 during current drives (yes, I'm driving the actual limit on roads and being a moving road block in the right lane)...
exactly just dont got 85mph like they describe in the video and you will get decent fuel economy
Lol gotta pay to play.
This project is coming together beautifully!
I own the 22 BRZ. The mpg is actually not that bad assuming you don't go 80-85mph like they describe in the video. The gearing is very aggressive so its probably turning 3.5k to 4k at 85 if not more. I know the old car got better econ but bigger engine with more power with the same aggressive gearing is basically always going to mean worse fuel econ.
I mean the bottom end of highway speeds is 75 mph. Don't understand why an OEM would produce a car with final drive gearing this bad...on a 4 banger even. With no turbo. Unreal.
@@adamgroszkiewicz814 Depends where you are. I think posted Limits in Chicago metro are like 75-80 MPH max (people drive closer to 90), while Los Angeles is like 65 and people average (75-80). I think they put the final drive that high to get more acceleration to keep up with modern cars, especially since it's an NA.
I think the engineers cared more about the performance numbers this time around, since people kept complaining about the first generation being sluggish.
This car I think would work better for the people owning it in a metro area, since you're closer to gas stations for the small gas tank, but at the same time, they didn't want to put a turbo in it, otherwise it would canabilize the Supra sales.
@@NeightrixPrime Shorter gearing means faster acceleration which is more important for a sports car than fuel economy. Not only that shorter gearing means its more engaging to drive since you get to do more shifting and the gears are closer together keeping you in the powerband. its not the manual thats gimped its the automatic that gets screwed.
@@NeightrixPrime Agree. I annot think of a single reason why they would not make 6th longer to improve mpg. How often will you need that acceleration on top end? Even on track, the car is not powerful enough to "rip" through the 5th and need the 6th for acceleration. I cinsider this a missed opportunity.
Yeah it's really not that bad if you don't drive the car.
+1 don't worry about length. Good video thanks. Look forward to more on the GR86.
Very excited to see you guys start modding this thing. It's a bit lower on power than I'd like but I am toying around with the idea of getting one as a daily
Any issues with silicone in the oil pan/pick up tube?
MPG is pretty despicable for a NA 4cyl, especially with only 228Hp. Hopefully Subaru will introduce an updated motor sooner than later.
you mean a B59 ?
or 3jz ?
@@benoitbricet8885 anything that can hit at least 30mpg hwy. 20/27 is terrible for the manual. Toyota/Subie may benefit from following Honda’s lead with a smaller displacement turbo motor, but with more reliability.🤪
@@vagabond1776 pretty much the whole point of the BRZ/86 is that it's N/A, wouldnt count on that happening anytime soon... This MPG is standard Subaru efficiency... Its probably spraying half that fuel it uses through cracks in the case 😂
@@vagabond1776 more expensive, a lot.
My opinion in this matter, they did okay. No cost explosion in the midst of inflation, slight power and torque boost, no negative effect on the balance. The next rcfupra will fix it.
My 2022 AT gets an average 28.5 MPG on my commute to work (20 minutes of city driving, 40 minutes of interstate). Also, the turn signal is personal preference. I got used to it in like 15 minutes. I should add that I usually go 65 on the highway and 83ish on the interstate
Even 28.5 is low for such a small car. I'd rather spend 8k more and get a 230i. Better quality and MPGs
This is great and the GR86 is one of the cars on my track day/weekend list of potential buys (once we're into the depths of recession of course)
I know tier lists aren't really your thing, but a track day/weekend sports car tier list would be helpful. I am especially curious if stepping up in price will make for a better car or using the same money on upgrades.
ie. Tier examples on my list. GR86/ND2 or Golf R/GR Corolla/Type R or Supra/Nissan Z or Entry Porsche/Vette. Obviously a huge range here, but where is the money worth the upgrade and where is it better to spend on aftermarket upgrades.
Doesn't matter. No matter what you get, you will want more, and track days drain you piggy bank faster than dating.
Truth. Start with something with cheap cost of consumables. That often rules out Corvettes and the like.
I also think it has to do with mindset as well. Don't go out trying to "win the track day". Focus on your driving, not turning it into a competition. Poof! You just saved yourself shitloads of money.
Hahah hilarious and true answers. I should have added I have an NB Miata I keep throwing money at, but it's got some real issues creeping up now and I want to move to a newer platform. I also wanted something to double as a weekend car, but keeping it cheap and saving for all the costs associated with track running is probably still the way to go.
SOOO EXCITED!!! Just purchased a 2023 86 Premium Toyota Red manual!!! Comes in next week!!! Manuals are sold before they even show up at the dealer but not today!!!! I FINALLY got one!!!😮💨😮💨😮💨❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️. Wish you could add pics on here. Mad I didn’t get to test drive it but OMG can’t wait to see it! Not even 3 miles on it (they said). Traded in my 2015 Blue FR-S…hate to see her go but love to see her replaced!! 😂😂😂❤️❤️❤️🙋🏾♀️🙋🏾♀️🙋🏾♀️
Been getting 27mpg in my GR86, 90% highway. No complaints here.
I use to get around 30 highways in my 2014 Mustang V6 little over 300 HP....they accomplished this with more dirty emissions so it was banned from sale without modification in California.
I'm pretty sure a dsiciplined 65-70 MPH on the highway will return low 30's in MPG. I am burning about the same fuel overall as yours. I thought I'd hate the fake sound, but quite like it. I think the engine is marvelous. Always ready to do something. Glad those simple brake improvements get the desired results. Certainly cheap. On the street, I like the stock brakes. If I change mine, it willl be to probably go 225-45-17 on very light wheels. I wish the seats were better. I'd gladly pay more for that.
Don't like how imprecise the backrest adjuster is. It would be nice if you could change the seat base angle. I'd also like less heat trapping fabric and firmer foam.
My 3.4L Flat six Cayman GTS does 35 mpg in the highway.
1:30 Normal ≠ healthy
The indicator sticks ... You didn't explain what the problem is, but I assume you can only nudge them and it keeps blinking until the car thinks you don't need it blinking anymore?
I got confused by indicator sticks with less i(diot)-tech implemented, where I was pingponging the blinkers left and right because I couldn't turn the damn thing off and didn't know whether it is in indefinite mode or in three-blinks mode.
It looks amazing in that colour and with the aftermarket wheels
Everyday Driver also has a GT86 in this color, with gold OZ wheels, and it looks immaculate.
These wheels look really good, EDDs wheels are damn near perfect.
I had to really stop and think about how I felt about the fuel economy. My old AP1 S2000 got about 18 city so I think that this shouldn't be a problem, I have confidence that I could make this work as a second car. Plus I really like the fact that it has a bigger interior with places to put your stuff.
The fuel economy is a pretty big problem for this car. I recently bought a new Corolla SE manual with the new 2.0 and I have driven an FR-S. While the M20A Dynamic Force engine in the Corolla doesn't have the same power, it is a remarkably good engine that makes good power with great efficiency. I can't help but think the FA24 is just old news and that strapping D4-S to it is not enough to make it efficient enough, especially in today's fuel market. This car needs something like the M20A. I realize gearing and a rear torsen diff are also very much to blame for the fuel economy issues but man, I really do think it's time to ditch the Subaru engines for a good i4. #makethe86acorollaagain
If you look at the numbers this engine is surprisingly good for an NA one. Estimated 240ish crank hp (based on 210-215 whp dynos done stock cars, engine is underrated by Toyota/Subaru) out of an NA 2.4L, meaning around 100hp/L, which isn't a figure to snark at. If the M20A was used, to get it to that level would likely have lead to greatly reduced efficiency as well, and in the end would have only matched the power of the last gen. Plus, some people have been getting 30mpg in these on the highway, like Topher, so seems like this engine is just more sensitive to different environments. Still, it's a sportscar so it's hard to claim mpg is a pretty big problem as most buyers know they're making that tradeoff going in, and buy it anyways
Agreed. The FA24 has some impressive stats. It is just baffling that the GR86 gets such bad mileage when it is such a lightweight, low profile car. But of course, the wild card here is that people have vastly different driving styles, skill levels, etc. It is hard to gauge without getting behind the wheel of a GR86 ourselves to see if it really is inefficient or if the people driving are really inefficient. My bet is probably the latter. I can beat the highway fuel economy rating of my Corolla easily (it's rated 6.5l/100km hwy and I can get it to 5.5 without much trouble). I bet I could do the same with the GR86 if given the chance.
A torsen rear diff affects fuel economy?
Compared to an open diff, yes.
@@kiefershanks4172 Interesting. I can't find anything online about how much.
I put camber bolts on the 2 front wheels on my gr86 and that made the steering feel more heavy
Still torn on this or a Z, not sure how much twisty roads I'll really get and would do a decent amount of 100 mile round trip commutes highway, so the extra oomph might be better than a great small track car.
If you arent turning the wheel often and the price delta doesnt bother you buy the z.
@@jackholmes8105 I've been chosen! Yeah, I think the main thing is the market of getting anything is such shit. Ordered a maverick in January still waiting. Sold my F type to fund 5 acre homestead, so that's the other consideration is I think I'll miss not having something remotely as urgent as the V8 F Type, almost think I should swallow my disgust and go Camaro/GT500 etc, but I was hoping to step backwards a little on pricepopint.
You can get the GR86 and have fun for $30,000, or you can get the Z and have the same amount of fun for $50,000.
Get the GR86, affordable fun. Period.
86! Way cheaper but do your research about the paint job on these cars. I'm reading alot of owners saying it's weak and gets ruined easily.
I think this channel doing some modifications on a car to turn it into a more capable weekend track car makes a lot of sense.
Love seeing this update even if I have the first gen version!
My manual 15 mustang gt performance pack with 3.73 diff and stock 435hp consistently gets 25-26mpg on road trips. Why do manufacturers make the ECU so difficult/impossible to tune on sports cars? Waiting for supercharger kits then I might trade.
I had the same car 15 gt premium pp. tbh im not sure if it's because this motor is di and port vs 15-17 mustangs just being port and running lean.
That MPG is just bizarre. My V8 Lexus averages 23 on my commute and I can get 27 highway no problem with nearly double the motor.
excellent vid and very informative. Look forward to the next vids on the GR86.
Hey SG, another excellent video! Really shocked about highway mpg. Also, are those Apex wheels + RS4s what you're daily driving the car on? Or just the track only set?
I fixed the majority of my honda hood flutter by adjusting the hood latch down as far as possible after someone recommended it to me, adjusting the stops did nothing.
15:04 FINALLY, somebody addressed mpg, 4 cylinder car with V8 highway mpg! WTF! That disqualified it for me!
The difference between 25mpg and 30mpg for every 10,000 miles @ $5/Gallon is $333. You must manage a Red Lobster hedge fund.
@@andrewrossnagel9433 gr86 is averaging 22, I drive at least 12000 miles a year, gas is 6.5$, that’s 1000$ a year. That matters. I didn’t mind spending more when I was driving some great sounding v8 or i6, but 4 cylinder, I refuse to spend more.
@@norri8ws You're comparing average MPG for GR86 to best case scenario for FT86.....lol stop. So again let's use math but this time with actual real numbers, 22 average vs 24 for the older model ( I'll even give you 26mpg and your $6.50/G to show how silly you are)..
...And with your exaggerated numbers the delta is only $450/10,000 miles. When you use the corredt data it's a $212/10,000 miles. Just stop ✋️
@@andrewrossnagel9433 don’t call people silly it’s rude. It was miss understanding, I thought we were compering gr86 to 30mpg car not new vs old, I was comparing gr86 with 22mpg to an 30mpg car like Miata.
Have you considered pulling the oil pan to inspect the oil pickup with all the RTV sealant issues being found?
I have a BRZ Premium (Prius tires) with the manual, and I get 30-32 MPG on flatish interstate doing 75.
Edit: After watching the whole video. The infotainment isn't bad when it works, but mine crashes at least once on a longer trip (1hr+). The stereo kinda sucks, but I'll upgrade that soon. The usability is great. I'm on a business trip right now that was close enough to drive my own car. I brought my golf clubs, a very large suitcase, and a gym bag. With the seats down it all fit no problem. I go to Costco in my BRZ all the time, and I've only had to put something in the front seat once. I haven't been on the track yet, but I love when some Explorer ST is riding my ass before a tight offramp and by the time I'm on the next highway they're completely out of my rearview. I did lose a highway pull to a C4 Corvette. I assume it wasn't stock because even the later ones (with the LT1) are supposed to have a similar 1/4 mile to the BRZ. Last thing, this car takes premium. If you drive a lot like I do, you're gonna figure out real quick which stations to go to for premium. Costco or Sam's Club will be your friend.
How's the steering compared to an ND2?
SavageGeese 50th Anniversary video Blueray set release is going to have Kodak moments like 6:46 snuck in.
Shoutout to CounterSpaceGarage and their awesome customer service. Jasmin was an amazing rep and went above and beyond.
This gets ~10mpg less than a Miata. That is insane.
The fact that i can squeeze 17mpg out of my 5000lb 30 year old suburban on the hwy raises even more questions about this cars fuel economy.
@@daveunknown01 no kidding. I just took a 300 mile road trip in a 2021 Highlander XSE with the 3.5L full of camping gear and 2 passengers and we averaged 30mpg calculating with the Fuelly app. We were doing 72-78mph. I’m guessing total weight was near 5000lbs. I’m still shocked we got 30, but we did have a tailwind on the way home, so maybe that’s the reason.
And as the owner of an ND1 Miata, I can confirm I got 30-31mpg in the dead of winter on 93 octane. In the summer I run E85 and I get anywhere from 23-27mpg.
The gearing is super aggressive and short. This causes high rev cruising speeds lowering the mpg quite a bit. The auto gets better because the gearing isnt as bad as well as a better rear diff ratio. The miata is 600lbs lighter than the gr86 of course its gonna get way better gas mileage and its got a smaller motor so less fuel to begin with. Drop 600lbs on the 86 and it will do 35 mpg.
@@beexiong2995 one thing you’re forgetting is that the Miata also has super short gearing. I don’t remember exactly where my ND is at doing 80, but it’s well over 3000rpm. And I have taller 215/45 tires on it effectively making the gearing taller (factory is 205/45/17 on the Clubs). ND’s don’t have overdrive - the 6th gear is 1:1. The gearing is so short that you have to grab 3rd gear to hit 60mph in a stock ND1, ND2’s do over 60 because of their 7500rpm limiter versus 6800 on a stock ND1.
Weight itself is a factor as you mentioned, but I think the bigger factor is the inefficiency of Subaru’s boxer engines. When a near-ton heavier AWD V6 Highlander is doing 30mpg with no hybrid wizardry, etc., we have a problem!
@@g60corrado91 i have owned a highlander and a RX450H hybrid and they do not get anywhere near 30mpg. 24mpg combined is more accurate
Britt Casey is a great addition to the video! Looking forward to more from you guys!
80-85mph seems a bit high to test highway fuel economy. I think my Civic Si would only get 27mpg at those speeds
Yeah our highway speeds in australia are like 80-110kmh not like 160kmh 80mph is pretty crazy
It is, especially considering wind resistance increases exponentially with speed. My 2.0L Mazda 3 econobox barely manages 33MPG at 80mph but breezes past 40 if I keep it under 70MPH. The way these boys drive I think it's expected their range is going to suck.
@@Iman-mn1wv 80 mph is 129 km/h, just saying…And 160 km/h is not crazy if you have been to Germany.
The average flow of traffic on i90 and 290 in chicago is 80 plus. The owner ship mpg is reflective of what my 6k with the car has been like.
There are many places in the US where those are the highway speeds. Here in TX that's actually kind of slow. My V6 Accord gets 30 at those speeds
goated channel; love you guys!