Yeah. I liked these shows, but the online discourse surrounding them tends to be kinda mixed. Cartoon community: "Do you remember this PEAK superhero cartoon?" Comic community: "Do you remember that terrible adaptation of these heroes?"
@@GabePuratekutaDo... do we allow the movie community in these conversations? Not even really saying this to be rude, but in my experience love em or hate em comic book and cartoon series at least are willing to ACKNOWLEDGE multiple adaptions exist. Movie community can't fathom the idea that Marvel didn't spawn into existence with the MCU.
My favorite trope in power swaps is when they speak to each other and figure out how to work each other’s powers. Like Starfire and Raven in Teen Titans.
I love Sue doing that in this episode, coaching Jonny through making the strongest force field he can because Sue has already figured out the parallels between them. I think she says something like “imagine making the hottest flame you can” and apparently those two actions are the same sensation
I think an interesting way of doing a power swap for the FF would be if when they swapped, the powers changed a little bit to match the new person. Like, Sue switches powers with Reed but instead of becoming stretchy she becomes more of a Mystique-esque shapeshifter. Or maybe Reed gets Johnny's powers, but instead of "flaming on", he controls heat. That sounded cooler in my head. But I think someone with talent could do something with that idea.
Ooh that sounds like a cool idea. I can see Ben using Johnny's abilities to lob magma instead of fire, or Reed creating crazy invisible constructs with Sue's powers ala Green Lantern.
I didn't understand at first but I remembered a marvel comic where they explore this idea. Emma Frost mind controlled iceman and utilized his powers in ways he never did before
Oh man, that "Once upon a time there was a very arrogant man' speech is one of the best Reed moments ever penned. I always loved Marvel's First Family, but nothing has made me want a GOOD FF movie more than that couple of pages.
@@themilkman5004 and it has always been debunk in said runs. it's a common superhero story where the hero is like the villain but is compassionate when it counts
God damn, that 2007 Fantastic Four power swap episode has lived in my mind for YEARS solely because of when Johnny burned himself on hot pizza. Made me realize how much his powers would benefit me since my ADHD forgets that my food is still too hot all the time lol
I remember when I saw this episode, I noticed Reed consistently says, "we have to swap Johnny and Sue's powers back.'" Never "swap our powers", or "everyone's powers," he always specified Johnny and Sue, and that made it clear to me that he planned on keeping him and Ben this way, even before the others realized that's what his intention was.
think you nailed it with Reed's character. His friends and family are important for keeping him grounded, and from going too far in trying to solve all the problems. I don't really remember this episode well despite having the series on DVD. Though I definitly remember the first Skrull one.
I find it strange that in both the movie and show Sue ended up with Johnnys powers. Its a little basic tbh cause there is some interesting character stuff you could do with this concept -Johnny gets Ben's powers, which he hates cause he considers himself ugly (hed probably also have a hard time controlling the strength given his hot headed nature) -Ben gets Sue's powers, which he'd love because he could finally just have some time where he doesnt stick out like a sore thumb (and also he could probably use her powers to create a armour like construct so he could still protect others in a similar way) -Reed gets Johnnys powers, but and this is more my own headcannon, hes so constantly filled with resentment in general he'd not be able to flame off, making it so he couldn't use his tech to fix everyone -Sue gets Reed's powers, but stretches herself too thin (ba-dum tiss) trying to fix everyone while also making sure they dont hurt themselves/others In the end i think it would be fun to have Ben figure out how to fix them, and he's happy to do so because he loves his family. And while he enjoyed being 'normal' again he'd admit that he actually felt kinda weird and uncomfortable not being The Thing as he'd actually grown used to it but just hadn't realised because he also just enjoys complaining sometimes🤣
Swapping personalities with the powers could have been an interesting story all on it's own, especially if Doom was more directly involved. Instead of robots not following the right powerset, it would be Doom miscalculating because he DOES know the team so well, so when Susan is a hothead, or Reed isn't acting from an intellectual place, it throws him completely off. Potential!
John Byrne did a what if… story where the Fantastic Four never got powers, yet the experience of flying a rocket imprinted on to them a sense of adventure. It’s a great issue i highly recommend. it’s issue #36
a great episode that does this similar concept is the tmnt 2012 show where the turtles swap weapons. Thier weapons also reflect them, so relearning to be a team regardless of tools, played really well there
2005 to 2007 to me was a strange time vortex in which i became as much of a fan of Ben Grimm as any other kid would be for Spider-Man, Batman or Superman. The 2005 movie (the second one to a lesser extent) alongside this show and re-runs of the 90's animated series just had me thinking he was the best all the while appreciating his tragic story since he is trying to fit back into society despite the strong clumsiness of his new body. That is the true pain. Unlike Hulk or Wolverine wanting to be left alone, Ben still retains his emotions and rational thinking. He isn't a monster. He is just trapped in one's body.
The personality swap going with the powers is a really fascinating angle to play with. Especially with the characters still having memories from their old selves so now their memories are completely recontextualized. It's unlikely but I hope we see that _that_ revisited at some point.
I watched this series a few times. Didn't see this episode though. Did see the She-Hulk episode though, and loved her using her civilian form to help her escape.
I think the removing of the... complexities... is to guard against Reed's growing reputation that doesn't have the caring father, friend and husband side. The perception of Reed as JUST an arrogant scientist who causes problems for everyone around him, sometimes on a planetary level. Flaws are important character features, but when those flaws obscure the virtues with their shadows, there's a problem.
i just find it weird how drastically different reed's thing is to ben's. reed becomes as tall as ben was, but his musculature is basically only increased to how big ben is normally, which isn't that big of a change. meanwhile ben's thing is so bulked up that you could fit reed thing's entire torso in ben's arm
I honestly love supervillains just being petty, just messing with the heroes because they can. Like the idea that Reverse Flash was messing with Berry's life before he became the Flash, or Black Manta with Aquaman in general.
I wonder if you've ever read the "Unstable Molecules" mini-series? The basic idea is that it takes the Fantastic Four and removes the whole super-hero aspect. It presents them as just ordinary people preparing for a dinner party. The idea is that even stripped of all the fantastic elements they are still compelling characters and have an interesting dynamic together.
I recall an FF issue from the end of someone's run that had Reed cure Ben but it would pass Ben's form to someone else and in the end Ben takes his form back. The reason he gives is he knew Reed would do this but he also knew that it'd take Reed time to adapt to the changes and more to adapt his lab to them. And any ideas for inventions that would help people that Reed had would be delayed at best. Those potential lives saved or helped were too great a cost in Ben's mind. One of the best hero moments for Ben, up there with his many feats of will and strength.
Call The Four do do do do! Fantastic Four (don't need no more!) Dang that's in my head now. This is also the perfect time to remind people that Dr Doom does as he pleases (toot).
Fantastic 4 Worlds Greatest Heroes is my favorite Fantastic 4 show because, like what you said, the tone and vibe captures the spirit to these characters. So you took the words right out of my mouth. Plus, the series embraces the characters personalities, thus giving us dynamic chemistry that the Fantastic 4 are known for, and it introduces newcomers and casual fans who these characters are. Reed Richards has a scientific curiosity that fleshes him out but also makes him a flawed individual, Ben Grimm has gruff and tough and nails attitude that delivers humor to the team, but he has a rough social life because of his appearance thus making you instantly sympathize and relate to him. Lastly, there is Sue Storm, who is the voice of reason. But, she's also clever, badass, and has a fun personality. But, it's not perfect because it's not the most accurate to the comics and Johnny Storm is unlikable. He's always been the firey, fun loving, rebel. But, at moments where he has to grow or learn from his mistakes, they're not genuine and he doesn't change or learn thus making him unlikable.
I used to watch this show on YTV! I remember loving the episode where they shank down so small they were running between the grooves of a fingerprint. So clever!
This show got me into the Fantastic Four comics just for how crazy and bombastic the team's stories were in this show, and little did I know how much wilder they are in the comics I am so glad you are talking about it because, yes this show was more kid-friendly but nevertheless you can still feel the love and admiration for the team in the show, and I think it's one of the more underrated Marvel animated shows that made the Fantastic Four my favourite superhero team in comics.
Ugh, Waid's FF run...everyone was so upset when he was let go that Marvel brought him back...and had Galactus lose his powers and try to eat a pool ball because it's round like a planet.
Reed is one of my favorite characters in all of comic books because of his complex relationships with his family and his perspective on his responsibility, his intellect demands of himself. The character's core motivations are very collegiate, which can be very esoteric to consider. But I think that's they often like to thumb down the character. I think doing that hurts the longevity of the brand. They have the other three in the family to play off to keep the stories grounded.
This was a great episode. I actually am disturbed by the thought that Ben has added trauma that you mentioned in this episode. I didn't want to think about this but it makes what he has gone through that more heartbreaking. The many times he reverted to his Ben Grimm physicality and then tragically back to the Thing makes this more painful than I ever imagined. I just love the big guy, he's my favorite superhero of all time
I think what would make it great for a power swap episode would be to maybe have them hold off on swapping back for a bit, at least relating to the thing, maybe a moment of them with his powers staring out into space lost in thought as they start to understand his struggles on such a deep level, knowing that by returning to the status quo it’ll be returning the curse back onto him, and being unsure if they’re comfortable with that, and then the thing would be the one to take it back, in a sense of it being an acceptance of that being who he is, but also because he understands it better than the others and while not happy with it would rather be the one to hold the burden. By making it moreso about choice at the end making it feel more emotional
while in pandemic lockdown, I binged Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes and quite enjoyed it. I think the writers put a lot of thought into the characters, pro and con. and it gave fans of the comic enough lesser known characters (Annihilus, Impossible Man), I would rate it above the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, tbh
I never thought about Ben having problems with feeling things, but honestly i could imagine it would be not the same as when he is human. The idea he wouldn't have this ability at all feels kinda too cruel tho. I wonder if it was ever explored that Ben propably needed to relearn how to use his body after transformation if we assume he feels things differently with stone skin and of course the fact he got much bigger and clunkier (if there is a scene from Fantastic Four 2005 movie its the one where Ben struggles to pick up a ring from the ground because his fingers are just too big)
There is also the scene when he tries going to a bar and clear his mind from what is going on but breaks the glass in which he was served with his big hands and also a stool when he tried to sit down due to the weight of his new body which made people laugh at him until the bartender stepped in. Even as a kid, that made me feel really horrible.
I’ve recently discovered your channel and am quickly growing attached to your well thought presentations and insights to many of my favorite characters and shows… in particular, I’m a huge FF fan too, and this video specifically inspires me to revisit ideas I’ve had for original Marvel stories… thank you…
Good timing. I just watched this episode in the series. It was great hearing your point of view. And yes you’re right, the episode did feel like that it dragged as it dwelt on the power swapping problem, and I think you explained why really well.
Man, I had all but forgotten about FF: WGH! I remember loving the show, but that was back when there was a real dearth of superhero shows. Not sure if it’s still holds up, but it definitely filled a need back then. Glad to see you have this in your catalog!
When I first saw the episode, the personality switches on top of it threw me off, because I usually don't see that in power swaps. When this and the sequel were out, i expected more switches, but that would be WAY TOO MUCH for this episode plot.
I didn't watch the show for the most part but I did happen to catch this episode, I'm pretty sure it was followed by an episode where their powers were amped up to 11 without boostingthe secondary powers. Reed couldn't stay upright, Johnny was getting heat stroke, Ben couldn't move
This show is so funny, I really loved it! The ''Pizza bite me'' bit is to this day one of my favorite gag with the '' Do you know how many Blue people I met?'' of Johnny and Ronan XD
I feel like it would be cool to see Ben's thing, about keeping his powers on without realizing it, during a power swap. If he had Reed's powers his depression may become visual with him becoming a puddle or going Clayface and not being able to keep himself together. he has his own face, but it's contorted. With Johnny's he may burn out of control or suck all the heat inward, hurting himself as he freezes everything around him. With Sue's he may notice he hasn't felt anything since getting them only to quietly realize that he's covered himself in the force field and can't turn it off, staying invisible and untouchable. At the same time he could relish in the invulnerability of Sue and Reed's powers or in the sheer force of Johnny's.
Got this version of the FF series, and also THE MARVEL ACTION UNIVERSE version as well. There was a story in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN (first comic series), where Spidey and WOLVERINE swapped bodies thanks to Jean Grey. And that story happened again in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN animated series, only Meserio caused the body swapped.
I loved this series and thank you for covering it! It may just be me but I’d be interested in your breaking down every episode, as it was only 1 season. I just love hearing you talk anyways. ❤️
I enjoyed this series , but would argue the point that this is the forgotten FF series, because I believe that more people remember this series than the 1967 one made by Hanna & Barbera…which is probably only remembered by us Baby Boomers who watched Saturday morning cartoons…Keep Up The Outstanding Work Sasha 🖖🏾
Growing up in Manchester I remember a Fantastic Four cartoon that didn't have Johnny Storm, (The Human Torch.) instead it had as its fourth member who was a robot whose name escapes me.
H.E.R.B.I.E the robot was on NBC Saturday morning Fantastic Four cartoon in 1978 instead of Johnny Human Torch Storm … there was a popular rumor that it was because they were afraid kids would set themselves on fire to be like him ( even though that did not happen after the 1967 cartoon) , but the real reason is that Marvel had options his rights to Universal Studios for a possible tv movie & series similar to The Incredible Hulk & Amazing Spider-Man live action series of that time 🖖🏾
I used to have this series on dvd back in the day, which is odd. I remember watching it when it aired, but I don't remember liking it enough to buy it. I don't remember it much at all, now that I think about it. Maybe I'll rewatch it.
What I like most about Reed is how he's constrained by being a comic book character. Characters in superhero comics maintain the status quo. In reality, someone with Reed's talents could bring about a utopia. Since Reed's a comic book character, the writers can't allow him to do that. One way to write around that is to have him make devices simply out of curiosity, with no intent to use them past the run of his latest experiment.
Definitely think this episode could've been way better, especially with more serious moments. I think the Waid/Wieringo run did it best, especially the ending Reed and Ben back and forth. The way they each helped the citizens who got their powers was perfectly written, especially Sue's, imo. Though I will also add, I kinda disagree with your take on Reed. I agree Reed will put the world first at times, but I think Reed is at his best when he cares about his family more, to the point of going too far, or willing to sacrifice himself for them and such. Whether it be Waid or Hickman or parts of the og run, I think Reed is at his best when he's a family man, in stark contrast, or even because of/in spite of, his own father doing the opposite: putting the world first, and simply ditching young Reed and his family when duty called. It's almost as if Reed realizes that importance because of the choice his father made, and I think that's an important factor to the character, that he doesn't ever want to be that absentee type parent, or make his family ever feel they're not always loved. Atleast, that's what I find the most endearing/interesting about him, to me. That, and to me, I kinda think the 'unfeeling scientists who cares about science more than his family' trope feels a bit overdone, and doesn't entirely make Reed feel unique when there's shows, games, and comics that do this too. [like Venture Bros [multiple characters even], Earthbound, and DC's the Metal Men [tho characterization can differ between writers]] That's why certain decisions usually make or break a Reed depiction for me, like his choices in Civil War, and so on. It's like how the followup run after Stan/Kirby left the book was shakey, due to pushing family drama into the core characters...the family bond is very important to the comic, I feel. Maybe some writers can overpush a family man Reed, but I'd kind of prefer that over one who is unfeeling, or even an ableist depiction sometimes, for the sake of forcing the rest of the FF to have to 'deal with' him. But that's just my 2-cents, thanks for Reed-ing all the way to this point. And this was a fantastic vid as always. [edit: spelling] 👍
I love this series and rewatch it on occasion. I wish they would do another animated series with the FF now that the ridiculous "ban" on the FF is gone and a new comic series has been running for several years now. Except for the spray-painted "4", I especially enjoyed this interpretation of the Thing in this series. Outside of the rebooted comic series, this series captured not only Ben's natural humor, self-deprecating nature, and love for Alicia, but also his weariness, pain, and angst of being trapped in a body made of stone.
The only thing I remember about this show was when they added a new character that turned out was working with one of the fantastic fours enemies, but because of getting to know them they switched sides and told the fantastic four about what was going to happen only for Sue to say that she didn't trust them even though they were trying to warn her about a trap they still fell for
I enjoyed your thoughts and your comments on what makes the family great to read about! I hope for more videos from this show too, haha. But as always a great and well thought out video. :)
I only have one memory of this show and it's when the Hulk was part of it. They needed Banner to get mad towards the end and the Thing defaults to insulting his mother which doesn't work. When Banner DOES become the Hulk though when goes after the Thing, Hulk goes "Rock man made fun of Hulk's mama!" Very "as was the style at the time"
One of my favourite episodes was when Jennifer Walters (She-Hulk) joined the team following Ben being cured but without his memory of ever having powers.
I want to see in a cartoon or movie how Reed and Sue made the compromises they had to do in order to respond to the world needs and theirs. Like in Byrne's era, Reed and Sue dream was just get married, Reed teaching in college and Sue being a house wife, yet the increasing crisis turn Reed "Man of Action, Dapper Savy Genius" into a more distant and always working problem solver, a Jack of All Trades. So Suzie, had to change. Because Reed solves the upcoming problems and Sue keep both of their eyes on the prize: the family, the date nights, the time together, a sense of normalcy in the extraordinary.
We thought the episode was going to be about someone getting lured in with an idea, but getting something else. But instead we got a power swap story. It's like some kind of temptation and subverted expectation.
I loved this show back when it was on air, though most of my friends didn't seem to know it existed. The one who did made some off-handed remark that assumed everyone thought it was an awful show, so I never brought it up with anyone since then. Even still, this show and the two live-action movies were my gateway into Marvel, I wasn't particularly interested in anything superhero related before them. There are a lot of episodes that guest-feature other Marvel characters, and those ended up becoming my first impressions of most of them. This episode does stick out in my memory, I remember laughing so hard at the scene where Ben tries to stop a bus and ends up flattened. I think the Avengers cartoon by Man of Action also had a power-swap episode earlier in its runtime, but most of those earlier episodes are a blur to me.
Yes please more Fantastic Four. They and Richard Grayson are my favorite characters in their respective companies. So any Robin/Nightwing videos will be appreciated.
Power swapping was a favorite of Chris Claremont, which is probably another reason they do don't do it very often because now everyone is wondering if it's a kink. (btw, if you google "power swap" they will just show you "power swab".)
Obligatory: If you want to see some really weird "power shifting", check out "Myxy's Mix-Up" of the Justice League action show. There's also the number of times the members of Power Pack changed powers. X-Men vs. FF allows Reed to show off his family side while nicely contrasting it to his more pragmatic side.
I always love the contrast between Ben and Bruce. One the best moments in the 90's Hulk cartoon was Bruce snapping at Ben "You don't know what it's like to live your life trapped as a monster!" and Ben replying "Doc, I'm gonna forget you said that."
First The Batman, now Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes, I love that you’re looking at all the great underrated animated series
Yeah. I liked these shows, but the online discourse surrounding them tends to be kinda mixed.
Cartoon community: "Do you remember this PEAK superhero cartoon?"
Comic community: "Do you remember that terrible adaptation of these heroes?"
@@kashsmith6181 Movie community: "That's not how they're supposed to be!"
Yeah I'm really happy about it. Nostalgia overload of my favorite iterations😊
I really hope she covers Beware the Batman at some point.
@@GabePuratekutaDo... do we allow the movie community in these conversations? Not even really saying this to be rude, but in my experience love em or hate em comic book and cartoon series at least are willing to ACKNOWLEDGE multiple adaptions exist. Movie community can't fathom the idea that Marvel didn't spawn into existence with the MCU.
My favorite trope in power swaps is when they speak to each other and figure out how to work each other’s powers. Like Starfire and Raven in Teen Titans.
That was certainly an interesting insight into them and how they live.
@@bthsr7113 It's just too bad that it's one of many body swap episodes that also change the voices for some reason
I love Sue doing that in this episode, coaching Jonny through making the strongest force field he can because Sue has already figured out the parallels between them. I think she says something like “imagine making the hottest flame you can” and apparently those two actions are the same sensation
I think an interesting way of doing a power swap for the FF would be if when they swapped, the powers changed a little bit to match the new person. Like, Sue switches powers with Reed but instead of becoming stretchy she becomes more of a Mystique-esque shapeshifter. Or maybe Reed gets Johnny's powers, but instead of "flaming on", he controls heat.
That sounded cooler in my head. But I think someone with talent could do something with that idea.
Ooh that sounds like a cool idea. I can see Ben using Johnny's abilities to lob magma instead of fire, or Reed creating crazy invisible constructs with Sue's powers ala Green Lantern.
Nah, I think it should still be funadamentaly the same powersets, but applied differently.
@bthsr7113 That's another way, but too standard for my liking.
I didn't understand at first but I remembered a marvel comic where they explore this idea. Emma Frost mind controlled iceman and utilized his powers in ways he never did before
Oh man, that "Once upon a time there was a very arrogant man' speech is one of the best Reed moments ever penned. I always loved Marvel's First Family, but nothing has made me want a GOOD FF movie more than that couple of pages.
This show features one of my favorite scenes of all time where Annihilus battles Johnny Storm in a spelling bee.
Reed Richards being close to a supervillain, that tracks.
It’s been a consant subject around with Reed in many runs. If he doesn’t have his family, he will eventually become no better than Doom
@nickwilson5774 all this does is reinforce my belief the illuminati in marvel are villians
Reed is the villain, Doom is the hero we deserve, change my mind, no you can't
And a decade before the maker was created
@@themilkman5004 and it has always been debunk in said runs. it's a common superhero story where the hero is like the villain but is compassionate when it counts
Me holding onto my DVD collection of Fantastic Four Earth Greatest Heroes: "Shhh, don't worry. I'll never forget about you."
Recently bought the whole show on dvd.
Me, too.
God damn, that 2007 Fantastic Four power swap episode has lived in my mind for YEARS solely because of when Johnny burned himself on hot pizza. Made me realize how much his powers would benefit me since my ADHD forgets that my food is still too hot all the time lol
That clip of Doom-in-Reed is incredible 😂
Doom: I just want to spend time with you!
Sue: Hey Johnny, we need to kill Reed
I remember when I saw this episode, I noticed Reed consistently says, "we have to swap Johnny and Sue's powers back.'" Never "swap our powers", or "everyone's powers," he always specified Johnny and Sue, and that made it clear to me that he planned on keeping him and Ben this way, even before the others realized that's what his intention was.
Ah yes, the series that confirms that Ben Grimm shits bricks!! (Literally a sight gag about Thing having an industrial rock grinder for a toilet)
think you nailed it with Reed's character. His friends and family are important for keeping him grounded, and from going too far in trying to solve all the problems.
I don't really remember this episode well despite having the series on DVD. Though I definitly remember the first Skrull one.
I find it strange that in both the movie and show Sue ended up with Johnnys powers. Its a little basic tbh cause there is some interesting character stuff you could do with this concept
-Johnny gets Ben's powers, which he hates cause he considers himself ugly (hed probably also have a hard time controlling the strength given his hot headed nature)
-Ben gets Sue's powers, which he'd love because he could finally just have some time where he doesnt stick out like a sore thumb (and also he could probably use her powers to create a armour like construct so he could still protect others in a similar way)
-Reed gets Johnnys powers, but and this is more my own headcannon, hes so constantly filled with resentment in general he'd not be able to flame off, making it so he couldn't use his tech to fix everyone
-Sue gets Reed's powers, but stretches herself too thin (ba-dum tiss) trying to fix everyone while also making sure they dont hurt themselves/others
In the end i think it would be fun to have Ben figure out how to fix them, and he's happy to do so because he loves his family. And while he enjoyed being 'normal' again he'd admit that he actually felt kinda weird and uncomfortable not being The Thing as he'd actually grown used to it but just hadn't realised because he also just enjoys complaining sometimes🤣
You just wrote a better movie than all four of them.
Because let's be real, the only reason Jessica Alba got fire powers was to burn her clothes off.
Swapping personalities with the powers could have been an interesting story all on it's own, especially if Doom was more directly involved. Instead of robots not following the right powerset, it would be Doom miscalculating because he DOES know the team so well, so when Susan is a hothead, or Reed isn't acting from an intellectual place, it throws him completely off. Potential!
Power swaps always make me so sad when it comes to Ben, they make me think about his day to day and how much it really affects him.
John Byrne did a what if… story where the Fantastic Four never got powers, yet the experience of flying a rocket imprinted on to them a sense of adventure. It’s a great issue i highly recommend. it’s issue #36
a great episode that does this similar concept is the tmnt 2012 show where the turtles swap weapons. Thier weapons also reflect them, so relearning to be a team regardless of tools, played really well there
And an important reminder that Nunchucks are the ones you are most likely to hit yourself with.
2005 to 2007 to me was a strange time vortex in which i became as much of a fan of Ben Grimm as any other kid would be for Spider-Man, Batman or Superman.
The 2005 movie (the second one to a lesser extent) alongside this show and re-runs of the 90's animated series just had me thinking he was the best all the while appreciating his tragic story since he is trying to fit back into society despite the strong clumsiness of his new body. That is the true pain. Unlike Hulk or Wolverine wanting to be left alone, Ben still retains his emotions and rational thinking. He isn't a monster. He is just trapped in one's body.
The personality swap going with the powers is a really fascinating angle to play with. Especially with the characters still having memories from their old selves so now their memories are completely recontextualized. It's unlikely but I hope we see that _that_ revisited at some point.
“The pizza bit me!” is a line that lives in my head rent free and I love it.
I watched this series a few times. Didn't see this episode though.
Did see the She-Hulk episode though, and loved her using her civilian form to help her escape.
Do you think Ben in his human form is very handsome?
I think the removing of the... complexities... is to guard against Reed's growing reputation that doesn't have the caring father, friend and husband side. The perception of Reed as JUST an arrogant scientist who causes problems for everyone around him, sometimes on a planetary level. Flaws are important character features, but when those flaws obscure the virtues with their shadows, there's a problem.
"I'm worried about Ben."
Why does Ben do that? 9:11
Loved this show as a kid, thanks for covering it
i just find it weird how drastically different reed's thing is to ben's. reed becomes as tall as ben was, but his musculature is basically only increased to how big ben is normally, which isn't that big of a change. meanwhile ben's thing is so bulked up that you could fit reed thing's entire torso in ben's arm
Do you think Ben is much more powerful than Reed with his elastic powers?
I honestly love supervillains just being petty, just messing with the heroes because they can. Like the idea that Reverse Flash was messing with Berry's life before he became the Flash, or Black Manta with Aquaman in general.
I remember this on Cartoon network, toonami it was when French anime was taking off like Code Lyoko.
Great episode!!!! Great version of F4!!!! I really wish they’d made more episodes.
Now here's a "what if" I'd love to see play out again one day 😊
Do you think Ben in his human form is very handsome?
It's still hard to believe that there's an official Fantastic Four cartoon made by the Code Lyoko studio.
A quartet of heroes swapping powers?
That’s just a Tuesday night for Power Pack.
I wonder if you've ever read the "Unstable Molecules" mini-series? The basic idea is that it takes the Fantastic Four and removes the whole super-hero aspect. It presents them as just ordinary people preparing for a dinner party. The idea is that even stripped of all the fantastic elements they are still compelling characters and have an interesting dynamic together.
I recall an FF issue from the end of someone's run that had Reed cure Ben but it would pass Ben's form to someone else and in the end Ben takes his form back. The reason he gives is he knew Reed would do this but he also knew that it'd take Reed time to adapt to the changes and more to adapt his lab to them. And any ideas for inventions that would help people that Reed had would be delayed at best. Those potential lives saved or helped were too great a cost in Ben's mind. One of the best hero moments for Ben, up there with his many feats of will and strength.
Call The Four do do do do! Fantastic Four (don't need no more!) Dang that's in my head now. This is also the perfect time to remind people that Dr Doom does as he pleases (toot).
I absolutely loved this show, especially the anime designs. Also, one of my favorite Fantastic Four costumes. The white and orange really pop.
Do you think Ben in his human form is very handsome?
@@danymartinmejiacabrera2111 I suppose he is handsome. Reminds a little of Shrek 2 when Shrek became human
Fantastic 4 Worlds Greatest Heroes is my favorite Fantastic 4 show because, like what you said, the tone and vibe captures the spirit to these characters. So you took the words right out of my mouth. Plus, the series embraces the characters personalities, thus giving us dynamic chemistry that the Fantastic 4 are known for, and it introduces newcomers and casual fans who these characters are. Reed Richards has a scientific curiosity that fleshes him out but also makes him a flawed individual, Ben Grimm has gruff and tough and nails attitude that delivers humor to the team, but he has a rough social life because of his appearance thus making you instantly sympathize and relate to him. Lastly, there is Sue Storm, who is the voice of reason. But, she's also clever, badass, and has a fun personality. But, it's not perfect because it's not the most accurate to the comics and Johnny Storm is unlikable. He's always been the firey, fun loving, rebel. But, at moments where he has to grow or learn from his mistakes, they're not genuine and he doesn't change or learn thus making him unlikable.
Who is your favorite character in the show?
@@danymartinmejiacabrera2111 Ben Grimm (aka the Thing) with Sue Storm (aka The Invisible Woman) in 2nd place.
I used to watch this show on YTV! I remember loving the episode where they shank down so small they were running between the grooves of a fingerprint. So clever!
This show got me into the Fantastic Four comics just for how crazy and bombastic the team's stories were in this show, and little did I know how much wilder they are in the comics I am so glad you are talking about it because, yes this show was more kid-friendly but nevertheless you can still feel the love and admiration for the team in the show, and I think it's one of the more underrated Marvel animated shows that made the Fantastic Four my favourite superhero team in comics.
Ugh, Waid's FF run...everyone was so upset when he was let go that Marvel brought him back...and had Galactus lose his powers and try to eat a pool ball because it's round like a planet.
Reed is one of my favorite characters in all of comic books because of his complex relationships with his family and his perspective on his responsibility, his intellect demands of himself.
The character's core motivations are very collegiate, which can be very esoteric to consider. But I think that's they often like to thumb down the character. I think doing that hurts the longevity of the brand. They have the other three in the family to play off to keep the stories grounded.
Reed’s power should be multiplicity instead of elasticity. It makes sense on so many levels.
This was a great episode. I actually am disturbed by the thought that Ben has added trauma that you mentioned in this episode. I didn't want to think about this but it makes what he has gone through that more heartbreaking. The many times he reverted to his Ben Grimm physicality and then tragically back to the Thing makes this more painful than I ever imagined. I just love the big guy, he's my favorite superhero of all time
This was the first show to do it, though original charmed kinda did it to death with piper and leo
I think what would make it great for a power swap episode would be to maybe have them hold off on swapping back for a bit, at least relating to the thing, maybe a moment of them with his powers staring out into space lost in thought as they start to understand his struggles on such a deep level, knowing that by returning to the status quo it’ll be returning the curse back onto him, and being unsure if they’re comfortable with that, and then the thing would be the one to take it back, in a sense of it being an acceptance of that being who he is, but also because he understands it better than the others and while not happy with it would rather be the one to hold the burden. By making it moreso about choice at the end making it feel more emotional
while in pandemic lockdown, I binged Fantastic Four: World's Greatest Heroes and quite enjoyed it. I think the writers put a lot of thought into the characters, pro and con. and it gave fans of the comic enough lesser known characters (Annihilus, Impossible Man), I would rate it above the Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, tbh
Why does Ben do that? 9:11
Liked the one in this series with the Grandmaster and Ronan the Accuser. "Skrulls are excellent spellers"".
I never thought about Ben having problems with feeling things, but honestly i could imagine it would be not the same as when he is human. The idea he wouldn't have this ability at all feels kinda too cruel tho.
I wonder if it was ever explored that Ben propably needed to relearn how to use his body after transformation if we assume he feels things differently with stone skin and of course the fact he got much bigger and clunkier (if there is a scene from Fantastic Four 2005 movie its the one where Ben struggles to pick up a ring from the ground because his fingers are just too big)
There is also the scene when he tries going to a bar and clear his mind from what is going on but breaks the glass in which he was served with his big hands and also a stool when he tried to sit down due to the weight of his new body which made people laugh at him until the bartender stepped in.
Even as a kid, that made me feel really horrible.
Now Ben saying "I don't feel a thing!" hits different.
This show had such cool costumes.
I love this series from the art style, to the great opening song, and the great stories. More please.
I’ve recently discovered your channel and am quickly growing attached to your well thought presentations and insights to many of my favorite characters and shows… in particular, I’m a huge FF fan too, and this video specifically inspires me to revisit ideas I’ve had for original Marvel stories… thank you…
My fav What If issue was the one where the F4 all got the same powers (four short stories) and in the Oops All-Thing story Sue Storm becomes Man-Thing
Good timing. I just watched this episode in the series. It was great hearing your point of view. And yes you’re right, the episode did feel like that it dragged as it dwelt on the power swapping problem, and I think you explained why really well.
Honestly, it's the best fantastic four series to date
The episode of this FF cartoon I’ve seen the most is the Hulk guest star.
Man, I had all but forgotten about FF: WGH! I remember loving the show, but that was back when there was a real dearth of superhero shows. Not sure if it’s still holds up, but it definitely filled a need back then. Glad to see you have this in your catalog!
When I first saw the episode, the personality switches on top of it threw me off, because I usually don't see that in power swaps. When this and the sequel were out, i expected more switches, but that would be WAY TOO MUCH for this episode plot.
Please cover the She-Hulk episode at some point. I was obsessed with that one as a kid
This has always been MY Fantastic Four. It is such a time capsule, and I love it so much.
Ben being able to feel just had me thinking of Cliff from Doom Patrol... then I had an image of that oven mitt :D
I didn't watch the show for the most part but I did happen to catch this episode, I'm pretty sure it was followed by an episode where their powers were amped up to 11 without boostingthe secondary powers. Reed couldn't stay upright, Johnny was getting heat stroke, Ben couldn't move
There's also that What If? issue where the Fantastic Four never get their powers, but still have to deal with the Mole Man and his monsters.
This show is so funny, I really loved it! The ''Pizza bite me'' bit is to this day one of my favorite gag with the '' Do you know how many Blue people I met?'' of Johnny and Ronan XD
I feel like it would be cool to see Ben's thing, about keeping his powers on without realizing it, during a power swap. If he had Reed's powers his depression may become visual with him becoming a puddle or going Clayface and not being able to keep himself together. he has his own face, but it's contorted. With Johnny's he may burn out of control or suck all the heat inward, hurting himself as he freezes everything around him. With Sue's he may notice he hasn't felt anything since getting them only to quietly realize that he's covered himself in the force field and can't turn it off, staying invisible and untouchable. At the same time he could relish in the invulnerability of Sue and Reed's powers or in the sheer force of Johnny's.
Got this version of the FF series, and also THE MARVEL ACTION UNIVERSE version as well.
There was a story in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN (first comic series), where Spidey and WOLVERINE swapped bodies thanks to Jean Grey.
And that story happened again in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN animated series, only Meserio caused the body swapped.
I love this show. I've got the complete series set. It makes me happy.
I'm glad you're covering this
I'm so glad you are taking about this tv show!!!!!
I like this. Thank you
The theme music is the ringtone for a friend I speak to several times a week. I'm familiar with this series.
I think about this series daily. It's gotta be one of my favorite adaptations of the FF.
I love this series. I am a firm believer that everything Chris Yost has his hand in is pure gold!
I loved this series and thank you for covering it! It may just be me but I’d be interested in your breaking down every episode, as it was only 1 season. I just love hearing you talk anyways. ❤️
This show was awesome. I remember watching this when I was a little kid, real underrated.
Thanks for this one...I grew up a FF fan back in the bronze age. I like both of the 'Alba' movies and this cartoon. Good stuff and good job!
I enjoyed this series , but would argue the point that this is the forgotten FF series, because I believe that more people remember this series than the 1967 one made by Hanna & Barbera…which is probably only remembered by us Baby Boomers who watched Saturday morning cartoons…Keep Up The Outstanding Work Sasha 🖖🏾
Growing up in Manchester I remember a Fantastic Four cartoon that didn't have Johnny Storm, (The Human Torch.) instead it had as its fourth member who was a robot whose name escapes me.
H.E.R.B.I.E the robot was on NBC Saturday morning Fantastic Four cartoon in 1978 instead of Johnny Human Torch Storm … there was a popular rumor that it was because they were afraid kids would set themselves on fire to be like him ( even though that did not happen after the 1967 cartoon) , but the real reason is that Marvel had options his rights to Universal Studios for a possible tv movie & series similar to The Incredible Hulk & Amazing Spider-Man live action series of that time 🖖🏾
Why does Reed have 5 fingers as the Thing but Ben only has 4?
I used to have this series on dvd back in the day, which is odd. I remember watching it when it aired, but I don't remember liking it enough to buy it. I don't remember it much at all, now that I think about it. Maybe I'll rewatch it.
What I like most about Reed is how he's constrained by being a comic book character.
Characters in superhero comics maintain the status quo. In reality, someone with Reed's talents could bring about a utopia.
Since Reed's a comic book character, the writers can't allow him to do that. One way to write around that is to have him make devices simply out of curiosity, with no intent to use them past the run of his latest experiment.
Definitely think this episode could've been way better, especially with more serious moments. I think the Waid/Wieringo run did it best, especially the ending Reed and Ben back and forth. The way they each helped the citizens who got their powers was perfectly written, especially Sue's, imo.
Though I will also add, I kinda disagree with your take on Reed. I agree Reed will put the world first at times, but I think Reed is at his best when he cares about his family more, to the point of going too far, or willing to sacrifice himself for them and such. Whether it be Waid or Hickman or parts of the og run, I think Reed is at his best when he's a family man, in stark contrast, or even because of/in spite of, his own father doing the opposite: putting the world first, and simply ditching young Reed and his family when duty called.
It's almost as if Reed realizes that importance because of the choice his father made, and I think that's an important factor to the character, that he doesn't ever want to be that absentee type parent, or make his family ever feel they're not always loved. Atleast, that's what I find the most endearing/interesting about him, to me.
That, and to me, I kinda think the 'unfeeling scientists who cares about science more than his family' trope feels a bit overdone, and doesn't entirely make Reed feel unique when there's shows, games, and comics that do this too. [like Venture Bros [multiple characters even], Earthbound, and DC's the Metal Men [tho characterization can differ between writers]]
That's why certain decisions usually make or break a Reed depiction for me, like his choices in Civil War, and so on.
It's like how the followup run after Stan/Kirby left the book was shakey, due to pushing family drama into the core characters...the family bond is very important to the comic, I feel.
Maybe some writers can overpush a family man Reed,
but I'd kind of prefer that over one who is unfeeling, or even an ableist depiction sometimes, for the sake of forcing the rest of the FF to have to 'deal with' him.
But that's just my 2-cents, thanks for Reed-ing all the way to this point. And this was a fantastic vid as always. [edit: spelling]
👍
I love this series and rewatch it on occasion. I wish they would do another animated series with the FF now that the ridiculous "ban" on the FF is gone and a new comic series has been running for several years now. Except for the spray-painted "4", I especially enjoyed this interpretation of the Thing in this series. Outside of the rebooted comic series, this series captured not only Ben's natural humor, self-deprecating nature, and love for Alicia, but also his weariness, pain, and angst of being trapped in a body made of stone.
Forgot about this show. You brought up a good point. You just can't willy nilly swap powers with them and the reason why. That's the key
The only thing I remember about this show was when they added a new character that turned out was working with one of the fantastic fours enemies, but because of getting to know them they switched sides and told the fantastic four about what was going to happen only for Sue to say that she didn't trust them even though they were trying to warn her about a trap they still fell for
Great video. Love when you talk about the First Family.
Oh man, so I didn't imagine this series existing? I haven't ever heard anybody mention it until now!
I enjoyed your thoughts and your comments on what makes the family great to read about! I hope for more videos from this show too, haha. But as always a great and well thought out video. :)
You think this episode is “forgotten”? This whole show was forgotten when this is genuinely 1 of the BEST adaptations of the Fantastic Four EVER
Yeah, specially when their powers are so link to their dark and positive personality traits.
I only have one memory of this show and it's when the Hulk was part of it. They needed Banner to get mad towards the end and the Thing defaults to insulting his mother which doesn't work. When Banner DOES become the Hulk though when goes after the Thing, Hulk goes "Rock man made fun of Hulk's mama!"
Very "as was the style at the time"
One of my favourite episodes was when Jennifer Walters (She-Hulk) joined the team following Ben being cured but without his memory of ever having powers.
Oh I remember this series. Talk about a blast from the past.
I want to see in a cartoon or movie how Reed and Sue made the compromises they had to do in order to respond to the world needs and theirs. Like in Byrne's era, Reed and Sue dream was just get married, Reed teaching in college and Sue being a house wife, yet the increasing crisis turn Reed "Man of Action, Dapper Savy Genius" into a more distant and always working problem solver, a Jack of All Trades. So Suzie, had to change. Because Reed solves the upcoming problems and Sue keep both of their eyes on the prize: the family, the date nights, the time together, a sense of normalcy in the extraordinary.
We thought the episode was going to be about someone getting lured in with an idea, but getting something else. But instead we got a power swap story.
It's like some kind of temptation and subverted expectation.
I remember this show.
I loved this show back when it was on air, though most of my friends didn't seem to know it existed. The one who did made some off-handed remark that assumed everyone thought it was an awful show, so I never brought it up with anyone since then. Even still, this show and the two live-action movies were my gateway into Marvel, I wasn't particularly interested in anything superhero related before them. There are a lot of episodes that guest-feature other Marvel characters, and those ended up becoming my first impressions of most of them. This episode does stick out in my memory, I remember laughing so hard at the scene where Ben tries to stop a bus and ends up flattened.
I think the Avengers cartoon by Man of Action also had a power-swap episode earlier in its runtime, but most of those earlier episodes are a blur to me.
Yes please more Fantastic Four. They and Richard Grayson are my favorite characters in their respective companies. So any Robin/Nightwing videos will be appreciated.
If there were to be another FF show, would you like this artstyle to return?
The intro is banger though
Honestly loved this series and I’m so glad to see some discussion on it.
I didn't watch this show but I love the FF and encourage you to talk about them more.
Power swapping was a favorite of Chris Claremont, which is probably another reason they do don't do it very often because now everyone is wondering if it's a kink. (btw, if you google "power swap" they will just show you "power swab".)
Obligatory: If you want to see some really weird "power shifting", check out "Myxy's Mix-Up" of the Justice League action show. There's also the number of times the members of Power Pack changed powers.
X-Men vs. FF allows Reed to show off his family side while nicely contrasting it to his more pragmatic side.
And it had Doctor Doom offering to save Kitty Pryde entirely to show up Reed Richards.
@@brettwood1351 There was a lot of coolness in that series, including the use of a journal as revenge weapon.
I loved this series as a kid! My favorite episode was the hulk episode, because he was my favorite character at the time, lol
I always love the contrast between Ben and Bruce. One the best moments in the 90's Hulk cartoon was Bruce snapping at Ben "You don't know what it's like to live your life trapped as a monster!" and Ben replying "Doc, I'm gonna forget you said that."