I would like to apologize on behalf of myself and my brothers for oppressing you through the addictive pull and seductive powers of Dr pepper zero, Sasha.
Arion retconning Power Girl's history as a Kryptonian: "It was all a lie I came up with, but I swear I had a good reason." Arion retconning Power Girl's history as an Atlantean: "It was all a lie I came up with, but I swear I had a good reason."
the "Power Girl is Atlantean" era was dumb as hell. Hated it. and the mystical baby thing was too much like what happened to Ms. Marvel in Avengers 200..
That’s all I could think back to! What was going on in the 70s & 90s that editors decided to push mystical magical rape as a trope on 2 of the strongest, boldest blonde female powerhouse heroes!? 🤦🏾♂️
There's a strong echo of Carol Danver's Immortus pregnancy story line in Kara's Atlantian pregnancy story, although I'm not sure which embarrassing moment came first. Still, if the only interesting (mileage may vary) thing you can do with a female hero is to make her pregnant, then I'd suggest you might want to rethink what she's all about in the first place.
Avengers #200 was 1980, Kara was retconned into being Atlantean in 1985. Zero Hour was 1994. As bad as Avengers #200 was, I think that not even naming Kara's baby was worse.
So Arion says that Kara's true origins wouldn't be accepted in our modern, "magic-less" age - the same age that's home to the Spectre, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Etrigan, Shining Knight, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel ...
@@Retro_Red Aliens are sci-fi's kid, talking animals are for grabs, but if these greek myths aren't sci-fi'ed... Earth-2 people would just box Atlantians into Clark's Third law. Either way it's a "mutant vs mutate" thing, or even less.
Atlantean-Era-Kara also made several appearances in the WARLORD series. She first shows up in issue #116, looking for more information about her ancestors, since Warlord's realm of Skartaris was originally colonized by Atlanteans in the distant past. She finds an old abandoned Atlantean city, accidentally frees a demon, and gets involved in a bunch of other Warlord-y fantasy stuff (and DeSaad and Darkseid show up, since this was during the LEGENDS crossover). She eventually leaves in #124. The storyline doesn't really add anything to Kara's backstory, but it does show that DC was pretty solidly committed to the whole Atlantis origin...until they weren't.
I still find the whole "I don't even know what will is" thing hilarious. Like if you don't even know what will is then how are you still a Green Lantern, my dude? And anytime I have a chance to bring that panel up, I freakin' bring it up.
@@Mindcrow except will is like the easiest thing to define. Its perseverance, rising under pressure, pushing forward. The fact that a seasoned GL hotshot like Hal Jordan can't define it is a ridiculous notion, it makes him look like a fool.
@@ProjektTakuI mean yes but I guess you could take it as a "okay but what does that REALLY mean?" kinda dealio. Like technically willpower is something philosophers and great thinkers like Aristotle discussed. Same with stuff like anger. Or who knows. Maybe he just meant "idk how tf will is an *emotion* in the emotional spectrum"
They did weird stuff with a lot of characters during that time, like Donna Troy and Hawkman. They were really trying to rewrite their histories but you could tell they were making up new backstories by the seat of their pants.
@@ianfinrir8724 No, she was created because of a misunderstanding about older Wonder Woman issues. A time traveling teenaged Diana was mistaken for Wonder Woman's sidekick.
@@bthsr7113 Wondergirl wasn't a time traveling Diana. She was teenage Diana who went on adventures with her adult and child self through the use of video editing and trick photography because Hippolyta apparently read a book on filmmaking.
The best part of this era of Power Girl was during her self-titled mini-series where she learned karate from a dude named Mongo Krebs, because the name Mongo Krebs is amazing.
Arion was the first comic I started buying and was my gateway into collecting. I liked the idea of Kara being Atlantean after Crisis but the ensuing continuity nightmare soured me on her backstory. Still liked her character in JSA.
@@booyah344 If they wanted Supergirl and Power Girl to co-exist as separate characters without the Multiversal shenanigans, then cloning is the way to go. Though that might feel too much like a retread of Superboy/Conner Kent's origin, making one or the other redundant.
The whole "Grandfather had to make sure she has a kid" thing is something I wish i didn't know, all that dialogue was yikes. Though the possibility it could have been Hal's got me thinking how it's interesting he's never really been shown as a father (especially in this era of heroes being dads).
Why is it my two favorite female superheroes BOTH had unfortunate storylines where they become pregnant with a hyper-growing boy? Although....at least Power Girl's child didn't end up raping her.... (And to be fair, PG didn't become my favorite until I came across the utterly iconic Palmiotti/Grey/Conner run)
For a long time after Crisis, no one had a clue what to do with Power Girl so she wouldn't be just a clone of Supergirl with anger management problems. The anger management problems are still there, I believe....
This is the problem with DC's so called reboots, they obstensibly want a clean slate to atract new readers without being bogged down by years of continuity, but they don't want to alienate their current audience either by changing or getting rid of fan-favorite characters, that's how in New 52 we ended up with a Batman that somehow managed to raise 5 Robins in the span of ten years, despite it not make any sense at all. Either commit to the clean slate reboot, or do a Marvel Ultimate and make a complete different book line, oh wait, they tried with Earth One and that ended up being a big fat of a nothingburger.
I remember a more recent comic that focused on the idea Power Girl was from a different Earth trying to make the best of it, and while she knows she's not actually related to this Earth's Superman, befriends him. Clark, in turn, takes Power Girl to meet his mother, giving them time to talk ... and Martha pretty much telling Power Girl her son has been hurt too many times by his past, and that she better not be there just to torture him. Power Girl just ends up bursting into tears and flying away. Couldn't tell you what comic this was, could have even been reviewed here, just remember feeling bad for her that Martha Kent accused her of being some ploy to hurt Clark.
Feels kinda out of character for Ma Kent, imo. Sure, she'd be protective of Clark, but not to the point of driving away someone he'd just introduced her to like that.
I like your fix for this story, Sasha. Ultimately I don't mind Power Girl being secretly Atlantean. However, I do strongly dislike how many times we've messed with her origin for seemingly little to no reason. Lol If you're going to do it I just ask you make it more meaningful than a half-demon son who rapidly ages, names himself, and peaces out once defeating his biological demon dad. Please. Lol I think my favourite era for Power Girl is the Huntress bestie, trapped in an alternate world together, team-up era.
Arion sending a granddaughter forward in time to save her from the destruction of Atlantis is a great storyline...for an AQUAMAN book! WHY did they decide THIS was how to reintro POWER GIRL??? She could have been a secret clone or something from any of Supes super-tech villains (the bizarros were all clones at one point in continuity) if they needed a krypton-less origin.
Thank you for deep diving into this. I started getting into the main comics by 00s, and by then all the DC encyclopedias said about this era was, “Powergirl thought she was Atlantean, but she wasn’t, moving on!” It seemed to me there was a lot more to the story that the DC editors didn’t want to go into, and now I know why. It’s like the said, “What if we did the maligned and hated Ms. Marvel mystical pregnancy plot, but worse?”
11:15 god dammit, only 6 years for possession and distribution of cp? Dude should rot in jail for at least 20 (since he'll probably not survive more than that)
I wish Hal was the dad. It would have been cool to see him wrestle with what to do about being a dad and Kara potentially not wanting him to help raise the kid. We could have seen him freak out about his own issues with not knowing his own dad as well as he would have liked. Their fights could have been about Hal trying not to be absent for the kids sake and Kara's confusion about the child suddenly becoming a mother. Kara could not have wanted the child and initially see this as a horrible mistake adding to all the pressures and change she's already dealing with. At the same time, she wouldn't be able to run away from the responsibility of raising it due to her own past. The two of them could have grown closer with Kara accepting Hal as more than his outward impression and Hal could have had more emphasis on his father issues before going Paralax. It would have been cool for the two of them to still be attracted to one another in future stories, with their relationship being one of mutual admiration and respect, but have a solid "no bone" policy about each other. Knowing how reliable he can be at his best, Kara could go to Hal for emotional support when times are hard and Hal, knowing how compassionate she can be while also telling him how it is, would go to her for the same.
This all sounds really good. In a similar vein, I've long wanted Hal and Carol to be just friends, albeit really close friends who really really get each other and are always there for each other. A lot like what you're describing for Hal and Kara.
I'll never understand why DC ever thought "being the only Kryptonian" should be a core part of Superman's mythos. No, it does not make Superman less special if there are other Kryptonians. Quite the opposite, having other Kryptonians around highlights that it's more than just the powers that make Superman.
I want to see a meta scene of Power Girl and Donna Troy having coffee and discussing their complicated history. Karen: History is confusing… Donna: Tell me about it lol
The impregnation of Power Girl always brings up unpleasant memories of what happened to Ms Marvel. You just want to grab people by the shoulders and scream: "What the bloody hell were you thinking???"
🤯Madness. All that Atlanean retcon needed was post-Crisis Comet. I never new the details of Power Girl's Atlantean origin. Thanks for the great vidy, yo.
Aside from the disgusting actions of Gerard Jones that thankfully he got punished for, (which is of course the worst part), it's also frustrating because he worked as a part of creative teams and all this hard work by very talented people is tainted by Jones's later actions. My disgust and frustration surrounding Gerard Jones knows no bounds.
Kind of glossed over the origin of her original costume being her baby clothes that she grew way out of on her journey to Earth, but kept wearing for some reason.
Here's what's amazing: after the "Ms. Marvel gets pregnant" storyline grossed everybody out in the Avengers, another company does basically a variation on that idea? I guess it's true, those who forget the lessons of history, etc. etc..
Power Girl has been my favorite since around COIE in 85. I don't read as much as I did 20 years ago, but I understand she's become someone new yet again. The Atlantian era was fun. Coming from Earth 2 was fun again, but now it seems like they have done something that isn't going to last and will have to fix it again before the next decade. Just leaving Karen alone.
You know, with the whole point of the baby being a “mix of good and evil” McGuffin, you COULD make the argument of Hal as the father, but then becoming Parallax before they’re born accidentally fulfilling the “evil” half of the prophecy. But then we wouldn’t get this Power Girl story with absolutely no flaws and plot holes what so ever. Which would truly be the darkest timeline.
If I had a nickel for every time they’d introduced a hyper aging baby into a company’s flagship team book that was meant to be the key to averting the apocalypse, I’d have two nickels which isn’t much but its weird that its happened twice
@@chrischriskidnicky6088I actually wasn’t talking about cable. Although he does count now that I think about it. I was talking about Brandy Stark, the baby starbrand that hyperaged into an old lady to defeat Mephisto in the Jason Aaron Avengers run.
They all this, which is a bit hilarious, because it the end... it never sticks, and they go back the batter refined version of the original or make it worse, like with Power Girl now lol
The diet soda thing was really the creators explaing why they were making this awesome character have anger issues. Mischaracterizations plagued jle “yeah we didn’t mess her character up it was a caffeine addiction we swear!” lol. They messed up Wally west too. As for the retco.I hated that stupid change glad it was droppes
The 90s really were an era where the better DC writers were trying to fix the crap that previous writers had left them. They didn't always do a great job with the fixes, but at least they understood the problem and tried to fix it. The diet soda thing was just ... well, it worked on paper, but it was not very satisfying. I would have been happier with Power Girl just doing self-help or seeing a counselor or simply deciding that she needs to handle her frustration better.
Editorial at DC didn't really have a feel for many of their characters until the late 90s / early 2000s; prior to that, they were trying to turn DC into Marvel, and it just didn't work.
@@bthsr7113 Oh there were plenty of missteps in the 2010s and 2020s. But in the late 80s they couldn't figure out any of their characters IMHO, except maybe Batman. The New 52 was a period where an awful lot of characters were off-model, sure; but there were also some real hits among the misses. The Azzarello "Wonder Woman" and the "Grayson" series stand out as successes where they understood the characters and showed them in top form. That said, the New 52 is the era in which they depowered Superman, gave him a bad haircut, made him surly, had him get into fights with cops, put him on a motorcycle, and set him up as a figure hated and feared by the public. They tried to turn him into Wolverine. That's pretty breathtakingly asinine.
Very good video. And your idea for the character's history makes more sense but it was fun to explore this era in Power girl's history. Thanks for a great video
Something I noticed is when companies try to "clean up" the continuity for new readers and streamline things it just makes much, much worse than just saying, "uuuh, sure that happen/didn't happen, let's focus on this story now".
13:37 Weird detail for me to point out, but that's not what immaculate conception means. It refers to the Virgin Mary being born without “original sin,” not babies being born without sex.
I think there's a reason every cartoon treats her as a Clone of Supergirl and not an Atlantean. I think part of what made it not work is even during the Atlanean era, her identity as a Superman adjacent character never left, she wasn't hard retconned from the start to of always been thought Atlantean, she had an era of imitating Superman. I think in hindsight more should of been done with her relationship with Hal. Because it would make Hal and Power Girl a connected centerpiece of most of the Crisis events. And Power Girl in theory should represent the better time when his city wasn't destroyed and Batgirl wasn't crippled that he wanted to get back to during Zero Hour. His relationship with her and even possible baby with her with a covaluted conception could of been a part of this and his decent in madness. The idea of being vexed by relationship with a woman who gets pregnant with a child that's not your own while dating you being the sort of story he would of believed wouldn't of existed in the old version of the multiverse.
I always thought that after Crisis they just should have made her a Daxamite who idolized Superman. No Atlantean origin necessary. I wouldn't ming seeing Equinox return. He could call her Kara and she'd be all like I'm Paige now. And she'd still call him baby and Arion would return to tell her her son's name is Page and he's really an ancient Kryptonian magician. Add Power Girl to the list with Hawkman and Donna Troy of characters who's history has been destroyed by retcons.
I have a bunch of the post crisis Secret Origins issues, they were really well done. Except for Power Girl's Atlantean origin. It was interesting reading the letter columns from the following issues where everyone said how much they didn't like it and the editors explaining the reasoning for the new origin. My favorite era of Power Girl's was her time in the 2000's JSA series and post infinite crisis before the new 52.
Pre-Crisis Superboy met an analogue, Power Boy, in space whose ancestors were Atlantean. He appeared as adult Powet Man in Grant Morrison’s Green Lantern. I don’t know if this was consciously or unconsciously a factor in the Atlantis/Power Girl connection.
There were a lot of issues that needed to be worked out after Crisis and they did a pretty good job overall. But what they did with Power Girl was gawd awful. I mainly kept up with her in Justice League Europe but that run was disappointing me more and until I just dropped it altogether after PG had emergency surgery that nerfed her. I had no idea the writer was a "bad touch" guy until now. 😱
My favourite Power Girl era is anything that happened pre-Crisis. Although I did like that story where she hung out with the Psycho Pirate and he told her everything.
"It was... a time." Not exactly how I would have phrased this period of PG's life. My wording would have been more... "colorful"... and would have gone on for hours.
Next time DC reboots their universe, they should just take the easy way out. Have Power Girl, Supergirl and Superboy all be siblings. Have them born on Argo City after Krypton explodes. Power Girl could be 19 and join the JSA. Supergirl could be 17 and go to the 30th century to join the LSH. And Superboy could be the kid brother at 15 and join the Teen Titans. And like Superman's original power rise, have them weaker than him. Superboy could be basically preflight 1938-1940 Superman levels. Supergirl could fly under sound barrier, approx 700 MPH, and have telescopic and X-Ray vision, early 40s Superman. Power Girl could have all the super senses and fly just twice as fast as sound. They need years on Earth and grow out of puberty before their solar energy ability develops fully, which is why they are not as powerful or have as many powers as Superman. So basically what they get from coming from a heavier gravity planet and some solar energy absorption powers. And get rid of Donna Troy in the Teen Titans and have Mary Marvel take her place on the team.
Everything about her Atlantean storyline was terrible. From the retcon itself, to the diet soda story, to the magic pregnancy. The best Eras for Power Girl are the ones that fully embrace her true origin as an alternate earth Supergirl. Her original run in the comics. Infinite Crisis. And while it has nothing to do with her origins, I enjoyed her appearance in Public Enemies.
She call me Mrs. Boobastic, tell me fantastic🎵 Touch me inna me back, she say I'm Mrs. Ro-mantic🎵 The Atlantean stuff could have been good but it was always weird and I like the fish out of water, last daughter of the multiverse stuff and the connections to the JSA and PG being a part of that OG DC Legacy.
Great recap and commentary! I remember reading the Power Girl miniseries that came out after the Secret Origins story when I decided to get back into reading comics. The wtf factor was off the scale when I read it as I had not read Crisis nor Secret Origins 11.
I like having Powergirl as an alternate Supergirl. Having her as a person displaced from her reality could have been a good storyline. They did displaced heroes well with the Arrowverse Crisis on Infinite Earths.
This does explain Hal Jordan’s later rejection of Supergirl’s advances. Nope, he secretly thought. Not gonna go through THAT again! Also, I’ve said this before, but, JUSTICE FOR STINKY THE CAT!
Should compare all the messing around with Supergirl/Power Girl with all the things done to Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel (and a bunch of other names) over in Marvel. Note this includes them both having been impregnated against their will.
They kinda did that, just not in the comics. While the Matrix Supergirl was an artificial being, she was the last survivor of the pocket universe (a complicated story of it’s own) and partially cloned from that universes Lana Lang, complete with her own power set. In Justice League Unlimited (animated), there was Galetea, who was a Supergirl clone made by Cadmus. She was accelerated to her “mature”physical prime. While she had the same powers, it’s unclear weather she had the same memories. She also bore some resemblance to Power Girl.
At the time, they were super strict on certain things. One was that Superman was the only survivor from Krypton. Supergirl (Kara Zor-El) had never existed. Nobody could mention her and none of the characters could even remember that she existed. There was even controversy about Supergirl's ghost talking to Deadman that one time. So, there had never been a Supergirl, so there could not be a clone of Supergirl.
There was a weird storyline where you were getting different comic covers with different JLA rosters where the A represented different words like Alien or Atlantean and I believe Powergirl was on that Atlantean one rather than Alien and that definitely confused me. I know Post Crisis continuity was a hot mess for a bit there but weird solution. Definitely liked the storyline where Kara rediscovered her Kryptonians roots….and got back to shooting laser beams out of her eyes.
That was "Justice Leagues", a story where a villain called the Advance Man erased all knowledge of the Justice League of America so his alien clients wouldn't have any united opposition. But the JLA members still had vague memories of being part of some sort of 'Justice League ', so they organized separate teams with the different 'A' terms: Aliens, Atlantis, Amazons, Arkham (!)... 😊
Power Girl's costume at 7:46 is easily the worst. When I inking Justice League America #107, shown at 16:24 I had to ink yet another crap costume with metal panties (!)
There is this thing online called earth 27 where in that the people who created did something with powergirl, that dc comics could’ve done after their crisis of infinite earths, to where on there they created a composite of power girl where she is a combination of supergirl of earth one, and power girl of earth two, and you might find it fascinating💁🏻♂.
- It seems clear to me from the dialogue that Hal and Kara did not have sex. (Also, I like to think Hal's "I don't know what will is" was just Hal not taking therapy seriously) - The diet soda thing came across to me as a retread of J'onn's episode with Oreos (or whatever off-brand DC was allowed to use) - I never like the "magical pregnancy" story, whether it's Carol Danvers, Dana Scully, Deanna Troi, Cordelia Chase (twice) etc. I always find them distasteful.
For reasons I'm unclear on, I read the entirety of the Jones/Wojetkowicz run post Zero Hour, and it was some baaaaad comics. But that story about Power Girl's baby really took the cake. I definitely threw the comic across the room when that twist with the baby happened.
She also lived in Skartaris for a while, presumably to learn more about her Atlantean past (but probably in order to attempt to raise sales). Me, I find the whole period just way too confused and aimless. It was necessary to resolve it and turn the page to go forward. That is all.
Which Forgotten Child Character Would You Love To See Return?
Pinky the Whiz Kid..sidekick of Mr. Scarlet from DCs Multiverse Earth S, Old Fawcett characters.
@@harryschlitz4067he actually became Mr. Scarlet in Power of Shazam.
I just hope that the members of the Itty Bitty Titty Committee DC don't take away power girls double dates
Arthur curry jr
I would like to apologize on behalf of myself and my brothers for oppressing you through the addictive pull and seductive powers of Dr pepper zero, Sasha.
Arion retconning Power Girl's history as a Kryptonian: "It was all a lie I came up with, but I swear I had a good reason."
Arion retconning Power Girl's history as an Atlantean: "It was all a lie I came up with, but I swear I had a good reason."
Donna Troy and Kara need to start a support group for superheroes with very complicated backstories. 😂🤣
Add Carol Danvers and the Scarlet Witch to that group.
That's called the Legion of Superheroes.
The Hawks have logged in.
and another one with Carol Danvers for creepily impregnated with babies that rapidly age by enemies.
@@ChryssaBL Calling De Anna Troy...
I think Carol Danvers and Kara Zor-L need a crossover support group for "I got magically pregnant and gave birth to a fast growing baby"
Only if Deanna Troi was also there.
@@GabePuratekutaOMG I WAS LITERALLY ABOUT TO WRITE DEANNA TROI!!! LMAO! Great Trekkie minds think alike! 🖖🏾❤️
I mean.. Donna Troy could come as well. She got pregnant the regular way, but still had a fast growing baby.
There is also Rahne Sinclair (aka Wolfsbane)
@@HeadHunter-mv2ht oh wow, I had no idea that happened to her... Yikes
the "Power Girl is Atlantean" era was dumb as hell. Hated it. and the mystical baby thing was too much like what happened to Ms. Marvel in Avengers 200..
yes.... i linked that too... "The Undesired Pregnancy Arc"
That’s all I could think back to! What was going on in the 70s & 90s that editors decided to push mystical magical rape as a trope on 2 of the strongest, boldest blonde female powerhouse heroes!? 🤦🏾♂️
It was much worse with Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers).
There's a strong echo of Carol Danver's Immortus pregnancy story line in Kara's Atlantian pregnancy story, although I'm not sure which embarrassing moment came first. Still, if the only interesting (mileage may vary) thing you can do with a female hero is to make her pregnant, then I'd suggest you might want to rethink what she's all about in the first place.
Avengers #200 was 1980, Kara was retconned into being Atlantean in 1985. Zero Hour was 1994. As bad as Avengers #200 was, I think that not even naming Kara's baby was worse.
Carol's was definitely before Kara's, I want to say by over a decade.
So Arion says that Kara's true origins wouldn't be accepted in our modern, "magic-less" age - the same age that's home to the Spectre, Dr. Fate, Zatanna, Etrigan, Shining Knight, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel ...
Also Constantine, who I feel like is quite popular in online spaces, albeit not for magic or even superhero reasons.
So people of former Earth-2 couldn't accept Atlantean wizards (until Aquaman), but can accept talking primates, Greek myths come to life, and aliens?
@@Retro_Red Aliens are sci-fi's kid, talking animals are for grabs, but if these greek myths aren't sci-fi'ed... Earth-2 people would just box Atlantians into Clark's Third law. Either way it's a "mutant vs mutate" thing, or even less.
Atlantean-Era-Kara also made several appearances in the WARLORD series. She first shows up in issue #116, looking for more information about her ancestors, since Warlord's realm of Skartaris was originally colonized by Atlanteans in the distant past. She finds an old abandoned Atlantean city, accidentally frees a demon, and gets involved in a bunch of other Warlord-y fantasy stuff (and DeSaad and Darkseid show up, since this was during the LEGENDS crossover). She eventually leaves in #124. The storyline doesn't really add anything to Kara's backstory, but it does show that DC was pretty solidly committed to the whole Atlantis origin...until they weren't.
_"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered! _*_My life is my own."_*
- THE PRISONER
I still find the whole "I don't even know what will is" thing hilarious. Like if you don't even know what will is then how are you still a Green Lantern, my dude? And anytime I have a chance to bring that panel up, I freakin' bring it up.
@@Mindcrow except will is like the easiest thing to define. Its perseverance, rising under pressure, pushing forward. The fact that a seasoned GL hotshot like Hal Jordan can't define it is a ridiculous notion, it makes him look like a fool.
@@ProjektTaku Hal doesn't need help looking like a fool.
Keep Tom King away from DC Comics
@@HoovraCommander This.
@@ProjektTakuI mean yes but I guess you could take it as a "okay but what does that REALLY mean?" kinda dealio. Like technically willpower is something philosophers and great thinkers like Aristotle discussed. Same with stuff like anger. Or who knows. Maybe he just meant "idk how tf will is an *emotion* in the emotional spectrum"
DC did a lot of weird stuff with both Supergirl and Power Girl - guess they have that in common as doppelgängers.
They did weird stuff with a lot of characters during that time, like Donna Troy and Hawkman. They were really trying to rewrite their histories but you could tell they were making up new backstories by the seat of their pants.
I was just saying it. I read it, but it was crazy 🤪. It looks like things are better now.
@@darkmask5933Donna Troy was created because they thought continuity is what happens to other people.
@@ianfinrir8724 No, she was created because of a misunderstanding about older Wonder Woman issues. A time traveling teenaged Diana was mistaken for Wonder Woman's sidekick.
@@bthsr7113 Wondergirl wasn't a time traveling Diana. She was teenage Diana who went on adventures with her adult and child self through the use of video editing and trick photography because Hippolyta apparently read a book on filmmaking.
I laughed at the diet soda. DAMN YOU DIET SODA!!! 'shakes fist angerly in the air'. 😂
Needs a crossover with the Question. Because Diet Soda's true purpose is...sinister.
She should have named the kid Jordan. Also with that headband she looks like the dancer from Staying Alive.
The best part of this era of Power Girl was during her self-titled mini-series where she learned karate from a dude named Mongo Krebs, because the name Mongo Krebs is amazing.
To quote Aquaman: OUTRAGEOUS!
Arion was the first comic I started buying and was my gateway into collecting. I liked the idea of Kara being Atlantean after Crisis but the ensuing continuity nightmare soured me on her backstory. Still liked her character in JSA.
Does anyone want their Power Girl history not messy?
Me, but like, time/dimension displaced Kara is *exactly* the amount of mess I want
Eh, I'd say Supergirl was at her best when her history was the most messy so why not Power Girl too?
The DCAU i guess
@@booyah344 Seconded
@@booyah344 If they wanted Supergirl and Power Girl to co-exist as separate characters without the Multiversal shenanigans, then cloning is the way to go.
Though that might feel too much like a retread of Superboy/Conner Kent's origin, making one or the other redundant.
First Carol and now Kara. What was up with that time period and giving super women magical pregnancy that came and gone?
Deanna Troi says hello.
The whole "Grandfather had to make sure she has a kid" thing is something I wish i didn't know, all that dialogue was yikes. Though the possibility it could have been Hal's got me thinking how it's interesting he's never really been shown as a father (especially in this era of heroes being dads).
Why is it my two favorite female superheroes BOTH had unfortunate storylines where they become pregnant with a hyper-growing boy? Although....at least Power Girl's child didn't end up raping her....
(And to be fair, PG didn't become my favorite until I came across the utterly iconic Palmiotti/Grey/Conner run)
This is what happens when writers who have "a better idea" toss retcon bombs like they're water balloons. Still not as bad as Hawkman and Donna Troi.
COMIC READERS: I feel like era this could’ve been written better.
CASUALLY COMICS:Hold my wig…
I dig it.
For a long time after Crisis, no one had a clue what to do with Power Girl so she wouldn't be just a clone of Supergirl with anger management problems.
The anger management problems are still there, I believe....
This is the problem with DC's so called reboots, they obstensibly want a clean slate to atract new readers without being bogged down by years of continuity, but they don't want to alienate their current audience either by changing or getting rid of fan-favorite characters, that's how in New 52 we ended up with a Batman that somehow managed to raise 5 Robins in the span of ten years, despite it not make any sense at all.
Either commit to the clean slate reboot, or do a Marvel Ultimate and make a complete different book line, oh wait, they tried with Earth One and that ended up being a big fat of a nothingburger.
I remember a more recent comic that focused on the idea Power Girl was from a different Earth trying to make the best of it, and while she knows she's not actually related to this Earth's Superman, befriends him. Clark, in turn, takes Power Girl to meet his mother, giving them time to talk ... and Martha pretty much telling Power Girl her son has been hurt too many times by his past, and that she better not be there just to torture him. Power Girl just ends up bursting into tears and flying away.
Couldn't tell you what comic this was, could have even been reviewed here, just remember feeling bad for her that Martha Kent accused her of being some ploy to hurt Clark.
JSA Classified #1 by Geoff Johns. Amanda Conner's first time drawing Powergirl.
Feels kinda out of character for Ma Kent, imo. Sure, she'd be protective of Clark, but not to the point of driving away someone he'd just introduced her to like that.
I like your fix for this story, Sasha. Ultimately I don't mind Power Girl being secretly Atlantean.
However, I do strongly dislike how many times we've messed with her origin for seemingly little to no reason. Lol If you're going to do it I just ask you make it more meaningful than a half-demon son who rapidly ages, names himself, and peaces out once defeating his biological demon dad. Please. Lol
I think my favourite era for Power Girl is the Huntress bestie, trapped in an alternate world together, team-up era.
I remember the DC Secret Origin issue she got her Atlantean origin, I LOVED her belt buckle. Lol…
Arion sending a granddaughter forward in time to save her from the destruction of Atlantis is a great storyline...for an AQUAMAN book! WHY did they decide THIS was how to reintro POWER GIRL??? She could have been a secret clone or something from any of Supes super-tech villains (the bizarros were all clones at one point in continuity) if they needed a krypton-less origin.
Or hell, just have post-Crisis Power Girl be a Daxamite. They still existed post-Crisis, after all.
Agree with OP.
Thank you for deep diving into this. I started getting into the main comics by 00s, and by then all the DC encyclopedias said about this era was, “Powergirl thought she was Atlantean, but she wasn’t, moving on!” It seemed to me there was a lot more to the story that the DC editors didn’t want to go into, and now I know why. It’s like the said, “What if we did the maligned and hated Ms. Marvel mystical pregnancy plot, but worse?”
11:15 god dammit, only 6 years for possession and distribution of cp? Dude should rot in jail for at least 20 (since he'll probably not survive more than that)
Baby becomes Power Boy; has an abusive relationship with Supergirl....the saga continues...
I wish Hal was the dad.
It would have been cool to see him wrestle with what to do about being a dad and Kara potentially not wanting him to help raise the kid. We could have seen him freak out about his own issues with not knowing his own dad as well as he would have liked. Their fights could have been about Hal trying not to be absent for the kids sake and Kara's confusion about the child suddenly becoming a mother.
Kara could not have wanted the child and initially see this as a horrible mistake adding to all the pressures and change she's already dealing with. At the same time, she wouldn't be able to run away from the responsibility of raising it due to her own past.
The two of them could have grown closer with Kara accepting Hal as more than his outward impression and Hal could have had more emphasis on his father issues before going Paralax.
It would have been cool for the two of them to still be attracted to one another in future stories, with their relationship being one of mutual admiration and respect, but have a solid "no bone" policy about each other. Knowing how reliable he can be at his best, Kara could go to Hal for emotional support when times are hard and Hal, knowing how compassionate she can be while also telling him how it is, would go to her for the same.
Ooh wait a minute. You might be on to something interesting here…
This all sounds really good. In a similar vein, I've long wanted Hal and Carol to be just friends, albeit really close friends who really really get each other and are always there for each other. A lot like what you're describing for Hal and Kara.
the “no-excess-kryptonians” rule really drove the writers up a wall back then didn’t it
also 12:59 there it is
I'll never understand why DC ever thought "being the only Kryptonian" should be a core part of Superman's mythos. No, it does not make Superman less special if there are other Kryptonians. Quite the opposite, having other Kryptonians around highlights that it's more than just the powers that make Superman.
I want to see a meta scene of Power Girl and Donna Troy having coffee and discussing their complicated history. Karen: History is confusing… Donna: Tell me about it lol
Isn't her name Paige now, though?
@@GabePuratekuta She'll always be Karen to me
Donna Troy is what happens when you believe continuity is somebody else's problem.
Hawkman sitting at the counter rolling his eyes at them.
The impregnation of Power Girl always brings up unpleasant memories of what happened to Ms Marvel. You just want to grab people by the shoulders and scream: "What the bloody hell were you thinking???"
Casually Comics, This is perfect! I subscribed right away!
🤯Madness. All that Atlanean retcon needed was post-Crisis Comet.
I never new the details of Power Girl's Atlantean origin. Thanks for the great vidy, yo.
Aside from the disgusting actions of Gerard Jones that thankfully he got punished for, (which is of course the worst part), it's also frustrating because he worked as a part of creative teams and all this hard work by very talented people is tainted by Jones's later actions. My disgust and frustration surrounding Gerard Jones knows no bounds.
Ah, retcons... The more convoluted, the better!
Gerard Jones really torpedoed the advancement of certain characters with his conviction.
Kind of glossed over the origin of her original costume being her baby clothes that she grew way out of on her journey to Earth, but kept wearing for some reason.
Would you throw away Kriptonian grade clth that still fits?
I love the „but he can as he peace-d out of continuity“ 😂
Power Girl's new costume makes me appreciate the simplicity of her classic costume, boob window and all.
My takeaway from this is imma be reading some Arion comics in the future. Thanks Sasha!
6:52 now she doesn’t have to be a poser and pretend to be an orphan, she’s a real one!
5:17 Details left "floating" lol
Here's what's amazing: after the "Ms. Marvel gets pregnant" storyline grossed everybody out in the Avengers, another company does basically a variation on that idea? I guess it's true, those who forget the lessons of history, etc. etc..
DC was like "hold our beer, we can do that except even creepier!"
Give Sasha an Oscar.
IF Canada ever created a government office of Minister of Collectables, she would have my Full support. 🤠👍☀️
Power Girl has been my favorite since around COIE in 85. I don't read as much as I did 20 years ago, but I understand she's become someone new yet again. The Atlantian era was fun. Coming from Earth 2 was fun again, but now it seems like they have done something that isn't going to last and will have to fix it again before the next decade. Just leaving Karen alone.
You know, with the whole point of the baby being a “mix of good and evil” McGuffin, you COULD make the argument of Hal as the father, but then becoming Parallax before they’re born accidentally fulfilling the “evil” half of the prophecy.
But then we wouldn’t get this Power Girl story with absolutely no flaws and plot holes what so ever.
Which would truly be the darkest timeline.
Completely unaware of this. And now my eyes are stuck, rolled back into my skull. **smacks his head, trying to knock them free**
If I had a nickel for every time they’d introduced a hyper aging baby into a company’s flagship team book that was meant to be the key to averting the apocalypse, I’d have two nickels which isn’t much but its weird that its happened twice
It’s so weird that they read that avengers issue and were like “hey WE should do that!”
@@chrischriskidnicky6088its the fact that Marvel did it twice that is the most insane part
@@jorgeneedssleep7978 who was the second one? Cable?
@@chrischriskidnicky6088I actually wasn’t talking about cable. Although he does count now that I think about it. I was talking about Brandy Stark, the baby starbrand that hyperaged into an old lady to defeat Mephisto in the Jason Aaron Avengers run.
@@jorgeneedssleep7978 oh my god I forgot about that
They all this, which is a bit hilarious, because it the end... it never sticks, and they go back the batter refined version of the original or make it worse, like with Power Girl now lol
The diet soda thing was really the creators explaing why they were making this awesome character have anger issues. Mischaracterizations plagued jle “yeah we didn’t mess her character up it was a caffeine addiction we swear!” lol. They messed up Wally west too.
As for the retco.I hated that stupid change glad it was droppes
The 90s really were an era where the better DC writers were trying to fix the crap that previous writers had left them. They didn't always do a great job with the fixes, but at least they understood the problem and tried to fix it. The diet soda thing was just ... well, it worked on paper, but it was not very satisfying. I would have been happier with Power Girl just doing self-help or seeing a counselor or simply deciding that she needs to handle her frustration better.
Ooph. Once again I'm left wondering what the editorial staff thought they were up to.
Editorial at DC didn't really have a feel for many of their characters until the late 90s / early 2000s; prior to that, they were trying to turn DC into Marvel, and it just didn't work.
@@kingbeauregard You say that like DC editorial and writers haven't made a looooot of mad choices in the 2010's and 2020's.
@@bthsr7113 Oh there were plenty of missteps in the 2010s and 2020s. But in the late 80s they couldn't figure out any of their characters IMHO, except maybe Batman. The New 52 was a period where an awful lot of characters were off-model, sure; but there were also some real hits among the misses. The Azzarello "Wonder Woman" and the "Grayson" series stand out as successes where they understood the characters and showed them in top form.
That said, the New 52 is the era in which they depowered Superman, gave him a bad haircut, made him surly, had him get into fights with cops, put him on a motorcycle, and set him up as a figure hated and feared by the public. They tried to turn him into Wolverine. That's pretty breathtakingly asinine.
@@kingbeauregard Let's not forget the thinking behind why they wanted him in a romance with Wonder Woman.
LMBO OMG…Thank Goodness, ….The “Voices” are BACK with a vengeance. 👍
Alan Scott Jordan..Babies name…
So when she was unconscious all that time and that Crystal her grandfather took advantage of her and got her pregnant that's pretty nasty
Very good video. And your idea for the character's history makes more sense but it was fun to explore this era in Power girl's history. Thanks for a great video
DC should've left well enough alone and kept Earth-1 and Earth-2 continuity alive.
Something I noticed is when companies try to "clean up" the continuity for new readers and streamline things it just makes much, much worse than just saying, "uuuh, sure that happen/didn't happen, let's focus on this story now".
Sasha: *_"...but he regrets it in the next issue."_*
Post-Nautical Clarity...😉
Wow; there is some seriously ropey artwork in a bunch of these issues. Thanks for another deep, if disturbing, dive, Sacha.
13:37 Weird detail for me to point out, but that's not what immaculate conception means. It refers to the Virgin Mary being born without “original sin,” not babies being born without sex.
I think there's a reason every cartoon treats her as a Clone of Supergirl and not an Atlantean.
I think part of what made it not work is even during the Atlanean era, her identity as a Superman adjacent character never left, she wasn't hard retconned from the start to of always been thought Atlantean, she had an era of imitating Superman.
I think in hindsight more should of been done with her relationship with Hal. Because it would make Hal and Power Girl a connected centerpiece of most of the Crisis events. And Power Girl in theory should represent the better time when his city wasn't destroyed and Batgirl wasn't crippled that he wanted to get back to during Zero Hour. His relationship with her and even possible baby with her with a covaluted conception could of been a part of this and his decent in madness. The idea of being vexed by relationship with a woman who gets pregnant with a child that's not your own while dating you being the sort of story he would of believed wouldn't of existed in the old version of the multiverse.
I always thought that after Crisis they just should have made her a Daxamite who idolized Superman. No Atlantean origin necessary.
I wouldn't ming seeing Equinox return. He could call her Kara and she'd be all like I'm Paige now. And she'd still call him baby and Arion would return to tell her her son's name is Page and he's really an ancient Kryptonian magician.
Add Power Girl to the list with Hawkman and Donna Troy of characters who's history has been destroyed by retcons.
See DC editorial hates making ideas actually simple to follow
I have a bunch of the post crisis Secret Origins issues, they were really well done. Except for Power Girl's Atlantean origin. It was interesting reading the letter columns from the following issues where everyone said how much they didn't like it and the editors explaining the reasoning for the new origin. My favorite era of Power Girl's was her time in the 2000's JSA series and post infinite crisis before the new 52.
16:33 cool voice for the monster badguy, but why his knees fucking WINKING at me
Pre-Crisis Superboy met an analogue, Power Boy, in space whose ancestors were Atlantean. He appeared as adult Powet Man in Grant Morrison’s Green Lantern. I don’t know if this was consciously or unconsciously a factor in the Atlantis/Power Girl connection.
There were a lot of issues that needed to be worked out after Crisis and they did a pretty good job overall. But what they did with Power Girl was gawd awful. I mainly kept up with her in Justice League Europe but that run was disappointing me more and until I just dropped it altogether after PG had emergency surgery that nerfed her. I had no idea the writer was a "bad touch" guy until now. 😱
My favourite Power Girl era is anything that happened pre-Crisis. Although I did like that story where she hung out with the Psycho Pirate and he told her everything.
"It was... a time." Not exactly how I would have phrased this period of PG's life. My wording would have been more... "colorful"... and would have gone on for hours.
Could you do a video rancking Supergirl/Powergirl love intrestes from worst to best? 🤔
Next time DC reboots their universe, they should just take the easy way out. Have Power Girl, Supergirl and Superboy all be siblings. Have them born on Argo City after Krypton explodes. Power Girl could be 19 and join the JSA. Supergirl could be 17 and go to the 30th century to join the LSH. And Superboy could be the kid brother at 15 and join the Teen Titans.
And like Superman's original power rise, have them weaker than him. Superboy could be basically preflight 1938-1940 Superman levels. Supergirl could fly under sound barrier, approx 700 MPH, and have telescopic and X-Ray vision, early 40s Superman. Power Girl could have all the super senses and fly just twice as fast as sound.
They need years on Earth and grow out of puberty before their solar energy ability develops fully, which is why they are not as powerful or have as many powers as Superman. So basically what they get from coming from a heavier gravity planet and some solar energy absorption powers.
And get rid of Donna Troy in the Teen Titans and have Mary Marvel take her place on the team.
Just started this vid, but "got way more awkward than I thought it would when I started scripting" - you know how to get us hyped, Sasha!
Everything about her Atlantean storyline was terrible.
From the retcon itself, to the diet soda story, to the magic pregnancy.
The best Eras for Power Girl are the ones that fully embrace her true origin as an alternate earth Supergirl.
Her original run in the comics.
Infinite Crisis.
And while it has nothing to do with her origins, I enjoyed her appearance in Public Enemies.
For your next video on Supergirl/Powergirl, could you explore her time in Young Justice/Teen Titans? 🤔
I was following along okay until it turned into Diet Soda. I thought I'd heard it all.
Love the French accent.
Karen and Donna Troy should start a support group.
Boobastic is now my new favorite word. And I am sure I'll get in trouble at work if I use it. LOL
Boobage, boobacity, over the shoulder bolder holders...... so many good ones!
9:40 I agree with Kimiyo's "what" to everything going on
She call me Mrs. Boobastic, tell me fantastic🎵
Touch me inna me back, she say I'm Mrs. Ro-mantic🎵
The Atlantean stuff could have been good but it was always weird and I like the fish out of water, last daughter of the multiverse stuff and the connections to the JSA and PG being a part of that OG DC Legacy.
Great recap and commentary! I remember reading the Power Girl miniseries that came out after the Secret Origins story when I decided to get back into reading comics. The wtf factor was off the scale when I read it as I had not read Crisis nor Secret Origins 11.
I love your narration. I would listen to comic audiobooks with you doing all the voices.
"My grandfather once impregnated me with the demon spawn of our enemies"
Hand me the form I need to fill out to retcon that
I like having Powergirl as an alternate Supergirl. Having her as a person displaced from her reality could have been a good storyline.
They did displaced heroes well with the Arrowverse Crisis on Infinite Earths.
I'd love a Power Girl costume retrospective!
This does explain Hal Jordan’s later rejection of Supergirl’s advances.
Nope, he secretly thought. Not gonna go through THAT again!
Also, I’ve said this before, but, JUSTICE FOR STINKY THE CAT!
Please do a video rewritting this story! I love your ideas! We need to see it! ☀🌊
Should compare all the messing around with Supergirl/Power Girl with all the things done to Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel (and a bunch of other names) over in Marvel. Note this includes them both having been impregnated against their will.
Ever notice how *_SASHA_* seems to have better storyline ideas than the authors did?
I do.
I'm surprised they didn't just make her a clone of Supergirl with the memories of Supergirl. Too close to Matrix?
Or even, a female clone of Superman
They kinda did that, just not in the comics. While the Matrix Supergirl was an artificial being, she was the last survivor of the pocket universe (a complicated story of it’s own) and partially cloned from that universes Lana Lang, complete with her own power set. In Justice League Unlimited (animated), there was Galetea, who was a Supergirl clone made by Cadmus. She was accelerated to her “mature”physical prime. While she had the same powers, it’s unclear weather she had the same memories. She also bore some resemblance to Power Girl.
At the time, they were super strict on certain things. One was that Superman was the only survivor from Krypton. Supergirl (Kara Zor-El) had never existed. Nobody could mention her and none of the characters could even remember that she existed. There was even controversy about Supergirl's ghost talking to Deadman that one time. So, there had never been a Supergirl, so there could not be a clone of Supergirl.
Seeing an entire video of rewriting ideas (what was done at the end of the video) would be great.
There was a weird storyline where you were getting different comic covers with different JLA rosters where the A represented different words like Alien or Atlantean and I believe Powergirl was on that Atlantean one rather than Alien and that definitely confused me. I know Post Crisis continuity was a hot mess for a bit there but weird solution. Definitely liked the storyline where Kara rediscovered her Kryptonians roots….and got back to shooting laser beams out of her eyes.
That was "Justice Leagues", a story where a villain called the Advance Man erased all knowledge of the Justice League of America so his alien clients wouldn't have any united opposition. But the JLA members still had vague memories of being part of some sort of 'Justice League ', so they organized separate teams with the different 'A' terms: Aliens, Atlantis, Amazons, Arkham (!)... 😊
Wait... Wasn't Equinox in Brave and the Bold?
Seems they like just recycled the name but yes wasn't expecting that mention here ether.
Different guy, same name.
@@ianfinrir8724 shhh, I just want more Brave andth Bold conten :p
Power Girl's costume at 7:46 is easily the worst. When I inking Justice League America #107, shown at 16:24 I had to ink yet another crap costume with metal panties (!)
There is this thing online called earth 27 where in that the people who created did something with powergirl, that dc comics could’ve done after their crisis of infinite earths, to where on there they created a composite of power girl where she is a combination of supergirl of earth one, and power girl of earth two, and you might find it fascinating💁🏻♂.
- It seems clear to me from the dialogue that Hal and Kara did not have sex. (Also, I like to think Hal's "I don't know what will is" was just Hal not taking therapy seriously)
- The diet soda thing came across to me as a retread of J'onn's episode with Oreos (or whatever off-brand DC was allowed to use)
- I never like the "magical pregnancy" story, whether it's Carol Danvers, Dana Scully, Deanna Troi, Cordelia Chase (twice) etc. I always find them distasteful.
Gotta say, the multiple voices you use are my favorite part of your videos, Sasha.
For reasons I'm unclear on, I read the entirety of the Jones/Wojetkowicz run post Zero Hour, and it was some baaaaad comics. But that story about Power Girl's baby really took the cake. I definitely threw the comic across the room when that twist with the baby happened.
She also lived in Skartaris for a while, presumably to learn more about her Atlantean past (but probably in order to attempt to raise sales).
Me, I find the whole period just way too confused and aimless. It was necessary to resolve it and turn the page to go forward. That is all.