Hey John, nice stuff! I finished that diff story I was telling you about, it may be what your looking for in terms of a rundown on lads and lockers www.autoanything.com/resources/whats-the-diff/
Thank you Mr. Patrick Rich! I've read your entire article, great stuff! So it turns out I don't have a LSD or a Locker afterall, but a Twin Clutch system controlled by a RDU (rear drive unit). I never hear of something like that before, sounds like something that would be on my computers motherboard. This comment is getting pinned!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring they are fascinating units, they don't weigh alot but they perform the duties of both center and rear diff, they are torque vectoring and they are better at transferring torque than most of the on demand systems on the market. they have their faults to be sure but they are pretty effective
Hey Patrick, indeed very interesting stuff! In your article, you discussed some of the advantages of the two clutch systems, but I would like to know what are the disadvantages of such system?
@@Jazzme3 The main disadvantages are how long they can operate and how they disengage. Because there is no differential (center or rear) all the speed bias between left and right wheels has to happen with slipping clutches, and any power sent to the back is the same story. Especially true on the Honda unit because of the overdrive gearset on each axle shaft that allows for torque vectoring with yaw control. in the case of the Honda whenever an axle shaft is engaged its driving 2.7% faster than the input. Even in a straight light the rear wheels will try and turn faster than the fronts which cant happen for obvious reasons which means more clutch slipping. All this slipping means heat and thermal management becomes a big deal. as such these systems only engage when called on and disengage the moment they aren't needed. In the case of the Honda, its only active to ~20 mph and it will limit activity with large steering inputs, among other things as it relies on sensor input to know if differential action is needed now, instead of it being done mechanically. Basically heat is the enemy and anytime these systems engage they get hot, it also means accelerated wear since the clutches are skipping, though thats not a huge concern with the type of wet clutches these have. These systems are getting popular though; range rover evoke, blazer, tour-x, Rav4 adventure, focus rs, etc, etc. The 1st gen systems seem to be holding up well so thats encouraging.
Patrick Rich that’s very encouraging since Honda says the design and heat management is improved for their 2016+ Premium AWD systems (ivtm, shawd). Welp, if this RDU goes out, I’m sure it won’t be as nearly expensive to repair compared to a Subaru CVT. I can live with that.
Matt Pezzino that’s not just any truck, that’s a 1999 Honda Passport aka the “Honduzu”. It’s basically a 2nd generation Isuzu Rodeo but it’s badged a Honda. It has Solid axles and a rear limited slip differential and shamed A brand new Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro while we were out there. The taco was spinning tires, so I assumed he was in 2wd, but so was Eric and the Honduzu.
I always wondered if a torque vectoring differential could be used to simulate a locker. I didn't know that Honda actually did it. People don't give these things enough credit.
Rick Funk thanks! The Kia Sorento video is interesting. It’s heavily edited And I wish I could have been there to record the whole thing. You know I’d keep it real. I suspect there was a lot of scraping going on with that Base 7.3 inches of ground clearance. They should have at-least lifted it, which would be a lot more realistic than disconnecting a rear sway bar. I don’t know any softroader out there that disconnects his sway bar before hitting a trail. But I know hundreds upon hundreds of Subaru owners that are lifted. a stock Kia Sorento doesn’t meet the minimum requirements for a high clearance vehicle. So, it was truly a publicly stunt. What they wanted to PROVE was that their drive train can handle it, and I think they definitely hit their goal. I think I’ll pass on hells gate 😇. I’m really intrigued by the Kia Telluride and the H-Trac AWD system. They come with a proper 8 inches of ground clearance 👍. I’d love to ride with one sometime, or a lifted Kia! I’d like to ride with anything! I have to admit, owning my previous Subaru, I was a bit close minded to other AWD brands. Every brand might offer some quirk that can make it capable on the trails, so my mind is now open, and i want to be an advocate for inspiring any AWD crossover/suv owner to get their softroaders outdoors. I’d definitely like to expand my channel to feature and promote other softroaders.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I don't know if you've seen the Primal Outdoors channel ( th-cam.com/users/primalarcher ). This is a guy over in central Oregon who has been running an old Ford pickup with a Turtleback trailer, but is now building a Kia Telluride. They machined their own lift kit, have added a bumper and winch, and working on other offroad/overland mods. There's not a lot of video of it yet on the TH-cam channel as they've only just been working on the build - I think I've seen more of it on his Instagram - but I'm sure we'll be seeing the built Telluride in action very soon. Jason makes beautiful videos exploring Oregon backcountry and he'll certainly be putting that thing to the test.
Great vids and thanks for sharing. If I was looking for a new ride, the passport would be on the top of my list. Great looking ride and plenty of size for overlanding.
Thank you Vegas Yo! That's my goal! To build a low key, aerodynamic overlander. My cargo carrier box has a full size spare, picnic table, two camping chairs, a pop up fire pit, DIY awning system. So at any given moment, my girlfriend and I can setup some place to chill and relax. I'll definitely be looking to install solar panels and a mini fridge.
Great vid. The Passport is looking *fantastic* with the lift, and the trail performance is very impressive. I would SO love to be able to crawl up a challenging trail like that rather than rely on momentum. I find that in those wheel-lift scenarios my Forester actually does better with traction control ON, coupled with just a bit of momentum. There's always a moment of hesitation while the computer figures out what it wants to do but then up I go. In mushy stuff when I want to maintain maximum wheel spin and avoid any of the brakes getting applied, I turn traction control off. Obviously that's my older 4EAT though, I really can't speak to how it all interacts with the CVT...I was out on sand dunes yesterday with a CVT Crosstrek; both of us had traction control switched off, but the Crosstrek struggled noticeably more than my Forester going uphill in soft sand. Anyway, this was super informative and interesting, and I hope Subaru is paying attention to what Honda has been quietly accomplishing. The Passport is looking like a better choice than a new Outback or Forester for someone after a comfortable daily that can handle running some challenging trails. The fact that lifts and skids are available for it - not to mention Honda's stellar and lengthy record of reliability - make it a very compelling option. The clip at the very end going up in 2-wheel-drive was impressive and really underscores the role that suspension flex can play. I've yet to muck about with disconnecting my sway bars but this might just motivate me to see how much of a difference that might make. Thanks Jon, awesome work as always!
softroadingthewest thank you for insightful comment! I share the exact same sentiments! I really hope I’m not coming off as someone that hates CVT’s all of a sudden. I really thought my CVT was going to last, because I brought my vehicle in for regular maintenance and I felt my driving style wasn’t very abusive. But... it seems it’s inevitable. By the time a SJ Forester XT reaches 100K miles, the CVT is most likely to die. Why this happens makes a little sense. You see, the TR690 transmission is Subaru’s 1st generation lineartronic CVT. It can handle a little more torque but it’s design is not as efficient as the 2nd generation TR580 transmission found in all lower powered Subaru’s (2.0, 2.5 naturally aspirated). So, my guess is that since there’s more power and torque going through a less efficient transmission, this is the outcome. So now, I’m interested to see how the Subaru Ascent and upcoming Outback XT are going to hold up. So with all that said, it was so sad to hear about more and more people with dead CVT’s. Now we are seeing a rise in the automatic transmission. Watch the latest episode of Engineering explained and he talks about how good the modern Automatic transmissions are now, rivaling dual clutch transmissions as far as performance, and CVT’s are far as fuel economy. I’m super happy with my 9 speed auto.
That's awesome! The best thing about my mods is that they're not breaking the bank! It cost me $377 for the lift kit and lets say around $400-500 to get it installed by a professional.
I had an 2008 PILOT..locking the REAR VTM Diff and crawling a bad spot, they never stop, they don't bog, they just crawl through. that was with street tires and stock set up....HONDA AWD units are awesome
Looks like, Your rear kit is installed incorrectly, plates bolt to the strut first then to the body not trough. Should be total of 6 fasteners per side. That is why it did not line up.
Is it possible next time you record the digital torque distribution gage and show side by side with your wheel views? I'm quite interested in how Honda wants us to interpret the display. It's obvious the distribution don't add up to 100%. Thanks
I work at a Honda dealership and I am driving a 2019 Passport Elite for a demo. It would be so cool if i could do this to the my demo and take on awsome excursions like this. Great video man.
John Canstatine you know, my girlfriend doesn't even realized I've purchased new tires and lifted this thing. Maybe your dealership won't notice either :P
@@JonDZ_Adventuring no worries ....I can't imagine any Honda dealer giving the JonDZ a hard time with warranty work. Us Honda guys live vicariously through you.
SoftRoadingTheWest sent me here!! Really enjoy how you showed how the Passport made it up the dirt\sandy hill!! Good analysis. I have a Honda Ridgeline because I need the 'truck' functionality.
Great videos! Your channel does a better job of demonstrating the fun you can have with this vehicle than anywhere else online right now. I had a question on if the 2” lift mod affects your powertrain warranty?
Thanks Brian C! Sorry for the late reply. I didn’t have an answer for you when I read your comment, but I had to take my Passport in for my 2nd oil change (I have 11k mikes on this thing and it’s only been 4 months!) and I had the chance to ask the service manager about your question. He said they would have to prove that the modification caused a failed car part. The law is called Magnusson-Moss I believe. The lift kit is a suspension modification and will no doubt void warranty on suspension parts.
Thanks for following up! I love all the reasonable mods you’ve made to you passport. I’ve been waiting to pull the trigger on a touring trim towards end of the model year. Did you ever consider a Grand Cherokee (Trailhawk or other) aside from a Tacoma in your search?? I used to own a 93 Rodeo and took it out to calico a few times when I lived in SoCal... I have a soft spot for the passport being back (at least in name)! I think what mods you’ve made would allow all soft-roading I realistically would do while keeping the street efficiencies. Same thought? Keep up the great job. Looking forward
Brian C I actually considered a full on Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. But what steered me away was the sub par road manners (even though driving dynamics have improved in the JL, all auto publications said it’s still a rough and noisy ride. Now, about the Grand Cherokee, it has very little cargo capacity, BUT that has absolutely zero % why I didn’t consider it. The Only reason I didn’t consider the Grand Cherokee is because of low long term reliability ratings. For my next vehicle, it was going to be a Honda or Toyota period. And if I felt I could have waited another year, I would have waited to see how the new Toyota 4Runner is (with hybrid engine. Look up the 4400 LB. Lexus LC 3.5 hybrid with 345 hp that does 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. If they put that engine in the next 4Runner.... it’s going to be an absolute beast!)
Brian C to answer the 2nd part of your question. *edit* (with how my Passport is modified with the lift, tires and cargo carrier) Yes, I’m able to hit the trails while still being able to get decent MPG’s. I drove 480 miles to flagstaff, Arizona at 21.6 mpg @77mph. That’s from sea level to 7300 ft. Elevation loaded up with camping gear and low wind. But more recently, I drove up 330 miles to Mammoth, CA with high winds and 2 passengers totaling 400 lbs. driving up from sea level to 9000 ft. Elevation I was at 17.1 mpg @ 74mph on the way up. Same parameters on the way down was surprisingly at 19.0 mpg up until I hit civilization. Once I started passing through the cities with a bit of a wind block, my MPG’s improved to 19.6 in the last 50 miles of driving.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks for all the info! keep doing what you do and have a blast on all those trails! looking forward to seeing what else you decide to mod on your passport
I test drove a passport today, was impressed with how it behaved on the pavement. I do own a 4runner and comparing them. As far as off road, Honda is too advanced, making it not too fragile and expensive on the long haul, for off road driving.
If you don't count for towing and payload (even so), you can still do about 75 - 80% of what my 80 series can do with this new Passport. That is more than most people need or want to do with their vehicles. Plus it's more comfortable, better freeway manners, better fuel economy. All these are reasons for me to consider one as my next car.
Alex, one of the most down to earth comments I’ve ever seen. I just got back from a 5 day/ 4 night trip to Flagstaff Arizona for the Overland Expo West (USA) pre-events. This is the same event that Jsport unveiled the Honda Adventure project prototype. It was a 460+ mile drive and I took full advantage of adaptive cruise control and Honda’s self driving assist. It was a comfortable and easy drive. I even felt pretty confident letting the Honda drive while I opened a bag of chips and a can of Coke. Their were calm winds during the drive up from sea level to 7,400 foot elevation. For the first 280 miles we cruised at 73 mph, and for the rest we cruised at 79 mph. I finished the drive getting 21.5 mpg, which I’m very happy with, especially considering my cargo carrier, cut front bumper and all terrain tires. Serious vehicles like your Land Cruiser, other Toyota’s, Jeeps, Chevy ZR2 Bison are way more than most people need to get through the typical trail. But for the Australian Outback, the Rubicon and Alaska, it would probably be best to take a serious vehicle 😃
@@JonDZ_Adventuring can you do me a favor and try driving your Passport at 60 mph on cruise control? That's always the speed I drive on hwys, even if the posted limit is 70 mph. Only when posted speed is 75 or 80 mph do I increase to 65 mph but I never go above 65 mph for normal cruising. I may go faster to pass, but I'm always at 60 mph while driving in CA. I have a 2016 Limited 2.5i Forester. Without my Yakima Skybox, I get 34.7 MPG on hwys. With the Skybox on my Forester, I'm down to ~27.8 MPG. These #s are from the onboard computer. They're generally more optimistic than reality but at least both sets of numbers are from the same onboard computer. My theory is that your 'low' MPG has to do with your fast driving speeds. So I'd really like to see what you'd get if you drove 60 mph consistently for say 25 miles+. Can you do this experimenter? I went and tested a Passport Elite two days ago. Pretty nice. I'm thinking of getting one myself now. I love my Forester but I also agree that the damn CVT decreases the true potential of Subaru's AWD system. I'm haven't turned against Subaru's, but I do see major weaknesses in the CVT as compared to the generation before ours where they had a normal automatic transmission. So I've decided to move on from Subaru as well. I was going to go with an Ascent but now i'm looking at the Passport and the Kia Telluride. I test drove the Telluride last night. Not bad either. I really like the Telluride but it's such a hot seller that getting the top trim I want is exceedingly difficult. My biggest problem with either the Passport or the Telluride is the MPG. To me, the 19 - 24 MPG is just atrocious. I recall in one of your earlier videos when you had your XT where you compared MPG with a box and without a box and how getting 22MPG increased the cost of your trip from something like $87 to $113 or $123 and that's why you won't use a box. I agree using a box is costly but I need more cargo space than what the Forester has so I need the Skybox when I'm on my month long trips. I complain when I get 27/28 MPG with the Forester and the Skybox. I fear I'll go apeshit if I get 19 MPG with a Skybox ontop of the Passport. So please test drive your Passport for me going 60 mpg on cruise control for 25 or more miles. I want to see what kind MPG you get when driving only 60 mpg. Thanks! p.s. I'm not lifted and I have Discovery AT3 tires on stock 17" wheels. I did the White Rim trail with this setup.
Lance Guilin I will try, I’ll just need to find the right opportunity so it may take a little bit. I’ll do the experiment when i do a trip to Mammoth, CA. I have a ski resort rain check I need to use before the season is over. I’ve never cruised my vehicles at 60mph, but I’d imagine I would get substantially better MPG’s. The Passport AWD has a rating of 19 city and 24 highway. “Highway MPG” is defined by the EPA as a vehicle that has reached operating temperatures that has an average speed of 48mph with speed not to exceed 60mph. It’s strange that a Honda Passport sport with 245mm tires is rated at the same MPG’s as a Honda Passport elite with 265 wide tires. I was able to get almost 23 MPG’s @72mph during a 160 mile trip with a cargo “basket”
Lance Guilin, I drive 30,000 miles a year. My mixed driving will vary. I drive more spirited than the average driver and I like to use speed as a defensive measure to distance myself from other drivers, it may be a reason why I’ve never been into an accident. I also will use speed to deal with annoying assholes in Southern California. It’s awesome, I never feel road rage, I’ll just use my wide open throttle so I don’t get cut off or taken advantage of on the streets and highways. So with all that said. I get about 16-18 MPG’s mixed driving with the passport. I’m not kidding, but I’d get about 9-10 mpg in my old 2008 FJ cruiser mixed driving. That’s why I hated that vehicle and wouldn’t want anything like it (ie. 4Runner). So since I drive 30,000 miles a year, this is what the cost would look like. My 2019 Honda Passport mixed driving fuel cost: $6,562 My 2008 FJ Cruiser mixed driving fuel cost: $11,667 That’s a whole lot of extra money spent on fuel.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring LOL. Using speed as a defensive measure.... that's an interesting philosophy. Well you gotta do you. ;-) You live in CA, so you know how much our gas prices suck. I purchased my Forester new in July of 2015. I went with the 2.5i Limited as opposed to the turbo XT mostly due to gas prices / fuel cost. Gas was more expensive back in 2015. I believe the XT requires premium. The Limited uses regular. Add the fact that the Limited gets better MPG and I really didn't have a lot of choice. Sure I could use the turbo from the XT, especially since I go to Colorado and the CA Sierras often -- high elevation. But I just couldn't justify the cost -- like you with a 4Runner or FJ. I actually also would like a 4Runner TDR Pro but fuel economy AND the datedness of the interior turns me off. 30,000 miles a year huh? That's quite a bit. I thought I drove a lot. I have 72k miles in a little less than 4 years. Assume I'm at 75k at the end of this July, I averaged 18,750 / year over 4 years. Do you use your Passport as a weekend soft-roader only? Or are you actually driving it as a daily driver with that box of yours on top?
You’re lucky no one got hurt! That guy that’s messing about behind the red forester and then the other one that runs in front of the path of the later attempt! Just brutal lack of respect for a moving vehicle. Also when wheels are suspended you want traction control ON. Off is for deep mud and snow when you want momentum. Momentum kills CV joints on this terrain. Passport looks great though!
Thanks for the reminder Dylan. We often forget or neglect safety and we shouldn’t get complacent about trail safety. The CVT Subaru’s can have a tough time when they don’t utilize momentum and get a running start. So what may look like reckless driving, is dat Subaru Lyfe. I have to vouch that compared to most vehicles, a Subaru does a good job at utilizing momentum. If I would try something similar in my Passport, my suspension would definitely bottom out. With that said, I’m very very happy I have a 20:1 crawl ratio. What’s that Land Rover saying? “As slow as possible, as fast as necessary”. That’s how I like to roll, and I’m milking it in my Honda.
Sorry, I have to ask bc to me it seems really obvious; I get it when someone goes with what they already have and make the best of using it beyond its intended capabilities, but why would you buy a new car with limited capabilities and use it for things that would be handled way better in several other comparable choices of vehicle, i.e. Jeep or Toyota?? Minimally, if only for a low range, so you don't smoke your transmission forcing it to do things it wasn't designed for? And more so, for drive systems that are designed for more than just occasional use and will hold up better? I wish all these cross-overs didn't exist, there would be more choices and more competition for capable suv's like there used to be..
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Well thx. I see a video of someone off roading a crossover, like it was meant for it, didn't really get it, still don't. Looks good tho. Don't kno why u went from an FJ to a crossover, but to each his own. Uh, boom?
wjsj69 no boom 💥! More of like a mic drop 🎤. The FJ was traded in with 380k miles on it. Still ran great, got 8K for it unbelievably despite it being rear ended twice. I’m not sure if how familiar you are with the toyota steering dead zone, but I didn’t like it at all. The main reason for the switch was because of MPG’s. I use to frequent the Mammoth Ski resort here in California and its a 330 mile drive from Los Angeles. I wanted a vehicle that could get me there with minimal impact on the wallet. I never offroaded the FJ, and it wasn’t until after I traded it in that I started exploring dirt roads, truck trails and fire roads. I drive long distances for my adventures, so it’s really important to me that my ride is comfy, it’s easy to drive (as in doesn’t float around), and gets descent MPG’s. My honest assessment. I’m really impressed by this Honda Passport so far. As far as offroad capability, it slots below the 4runner and Jeep Grand Cherokee but above the other crossovers. It’s built on the Honda light truck architecture and has a beefier frame than the standard crossover. The wheel studs are mid size truck size. The vehicle is dummy proof (well almost). I don’t have to worry about choosing between 2wd and 4H or even 4L. It’s always ready with its 1st gear offering a 20:1 crawl ratio (unlike the Honda Ridgeline, which only has a 14:1 crawl). It has a twin clutch pack rear diff that can simulate a LSD and to some degree a locker. The thing this is missing is better articulation. But.... I guess it wouldn’t be a crossover if it was mushy around the corners.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Ah! Now that's a great answer that makes a lot of sense. Very cool! Thx, that will definitely be valuable info if/when I decide to change vehicles. Maybe you could get or make swaybar disconnects for better articulation. Good luck with your Honda.
I have a 2015 Forester XT with Ko2 and a dyno tune. Love the car, but it's bothering me hearing about all the horror stories of the cvt breaking, even with light duty off roading. I'm approaching 85k miles and most likely gonna put my car up for sale. I was considering a 4 runner or gx 460, but the issue is i spend 90% of my driving on the freeway, and 10% offroading to get to the trailheads or campsites. Also, our freeways in Arizona are mountainous and curvy, which my forester eats up like no problem. Would you say the passport handles similar to the forester? How does acceleration compare?
alanpikku Hey! I’m actually vacationing in Sedona Arizona right now! Your speed limits are crazy out here! 75mph! So... I’m in the same boat. I drive 90-95% on the road. I used to drive a 2008 TRD FJ cruiser and I did not like driving it. MPG’s sucked, there’s a steering deadzone, it floated around. Nothing has changed with Toyota trucks yet. I drove a GMC 2500 HD work truck and that thing handled waaaaaaay better. So, when I switched to the Passport, the first thing I noticed is that it’s a heavier vehicle. it’s not as agile. However, I felt that My 2015 Forester XT was top heavy (unlike the outback and crosstrek), So when pushed, it didn’t seem to hold a sharp turn well. On The other hand, the Passport having a wide wheel base, never feels like it’s going to tip over, even after the 2 inch lift. The trade off when switching to the Passport is “agility”, but everything else is better. It feels luxurious and comfortable. Has a quiet cabin. It also performs better, the Passport launches off the line like a bat out of hell (make sure traction control is off and sport mode engaged). My guess is the Passport would be 3 car lengths out before my FXT would start moving. 0-60 acceleration is 5.8 seconds in the Passport according to car and driver, and 6.2 in 2014-2016 FXT’s (then 6.8 in 2017-2018 FXT’s). So, here’s some MPG stats. With how this passport is modded (all terrain tires, cargo carrier, and hitch cargo carrier), I got 18.9 mpg going from Phoenix to Sedona. 75% of the drive at 85mph and the other 25% at 60mph. When I drove from Sedona to the lower antelope canyon, I was going 60-70mph and got 24mpg. On the way back I got 23mpg. If you are looking for a more agile ride (but less capability), the Kia Telluride could be a good choice. It has nicer luxury, a traditional automatic transmission, but an average awd system and limited modding potential (the wheel wells are small, so you can’t fit tall tires). Or... wait until 2021 when toyota revamps their truck line. Or... check out a Jeep JL, I hear they handle much better onroad. Good luck with your decision.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks! I did more digging, and it seems like the VCM system in the Hondas have potential issues of washing out the oil due to excess fuel during shutoff. Have you looked into doing a bypass to prevent potential engine damage? I will probably test drive some cars this week to get a better feel. But yea, the floatiness you're describing would drive me crazy. Still sounds like the Passport is a great compromise.
alanpikku I did a lot of research on potential problems with the Honda J series V6’s before the purchase. The problems have been well documented and I haven’t heard of any recent issues, but adding an oil catch can or air oil separator is on the todo list.
Your Passport looks great! Am not an off roader but, love that look of your Passport. May I ask the brand of your 2” lift kit and your wheel & tires size set up. Please!! Regards, Erick
Hi Jon, so, if the Passport is not lifted, which one would you recommend Forester/Outback (maybe Ascent) or the Honda Passport Sport trim? I would use the car 90% on highway. 10% would be sand to reach the beach or muddy/snovy roads in the forests. So, no hard off-road. I'm not keen of CVT but I would consider it if the Subaru performs better in the above conditions.
That’s a good question. Well I can tell you that the passport performs better in every situation except where more ground clearance is needed. Where I’d have to lower my tire pressure to 15 psi in my 2015 Forester XT to drive around in sand, I’m able to drive around at 40psi in the passport. Probably somewhat due to the larger tires it has (225mm vs. 265mm) but mainly because of the twin clutch rear that can simulate a limited slip and locker. Since you don’t hard off-road, the Passport all the way. If you end up going with a Subaru (because they get better MPG’s), get a 2.5 4 cylinder with the second generation CVT. They have a much better track record for reliability. Also, just know that if you load up a Subaru with a bunch of gear and put a cargo basket on top you’ll get worse MPG’s than a Passport with the same mods.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I'll go for Passport AWD, Sport trim....as the EX-L trim does not give too much, bigger touch screen, blind spot monitor...
János Böjthe the EX-L would be the recommended trim (by most automotive journalists) because of all those things you mentioned. It also have full leather... 😃 I like leather. The wide angle back up camera and apple car play screen with trail maps is awesome for off-road. I’m not sure if you have a back up camera on the sport trim.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring That's right, everybody recommends EX-L trim. Usually I travel with sport gear that's not really "leather friendly". As far as I know these days they cannot sell a new car without rear camera un US. I mean it's not allowed to sell it without rear camera.
János Böjthe oh yeah, I’ve heard about that law. I wonder where they put the rear back up screen. Welp! Going with the sport trim means you can save yourself $5k
Hey Jon, great video as always. I wonder what would've happened if you kept pressing the gas pedal. I have a feeling that eventually the i-VTM4 could've figured it out. Case in point, TFLC did take the Pilot to the Gold Mine Hill and it climbed the last stage slowly but surely. Even you have made it up the Kramer's Arch in your last video. Jumping on the breaks may be the normal reflex, but I think you should give more time to your Passport. :) Keep up the good work!
Heya Jazzme! Thanks for stopping by to leave a comment. So, it’s strange. If you were to ask me which obstacle was more difficult, I would say Kramer’s arch. Why do I say that? Well, 3 vehicles tried before me and weren’t able to make it up at all. With that said, Kramer’s arch can inflict major damage if driven carelessly. According to my spotters, I had a few inches of space on both left and right side. You’re absolutely right that I was pumping those brakes. Now, the dirt hill obstacle wasn’t as difficult but I believe I did the right thing by letting off the gas after I felt roll back. Laying into the gas is why I am no longer driving a Subaru Forester XT. Doing that really stresses out the transmission and leads to overheating. I mean to do a video about how my CVT died. As always, I appreciate your comment!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring You're probably right. Also, you seemed to have more traction on Kramer's arch than the dirt hill. The sandy surface made it looks like a lot more slippery. It is hard to judge the situation by only watching videos (however good quality they are), when you're not behind the wheel. The durability of Subaru's CVT is definitely scary. The Forester XT was actually a strong contender when I wanted to replace my Rav4 v6... until I learned that they ditched the turbo. I'm glad now that I didn't went for a used XT, and waited a little bit more to get the Passport! :D
jazzme I run into people at trail and camping events and they tell me they’ve watched my videos and that my videos convinced them to buy a FXT. So, it hurts, I feel guilty. The only thing that lets me sleep at night is knowing that I’ve always been truthful in my videos. I show the good times, but also the bad times. It’s been 3 months since I traded in my FXT, and I still need to make the video of my CVT dying. It was just so hard to find the motivation, but I’ll make it soon.
jazzme by the way, I’m glad you got the Passport! It’s an amazing ride. 1 more week I’ll be taking this thing to Arizona. I’m sure I will enjoy the long drive and letting the Honda do most of the driving for me. Self driving mode is awesome!!!! 😎
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I'm sure you already watched this (th-cam.com/video/ZjX1-bLQZWA/w-d-xo.html) but this guy had similar issues with the CVT. I think for normal driving the CVT is OK, but it is not meant to handle off-road situations, even the mildest ones. Which is a shame as Subaru advertises its vehicles to be very capable. Hope you'll post your CVT dying video in the future. I think it would help people looking for information on their current or next ride, to better understand that type of transmission.
Hi John I saw your video on the tallest tires that you can run. I’m actually looking for taller tires on a stock 20 inch rim. Now I’m just going for looks here not off road for my 2020 AWD Passport! I hate the gap between my stock tires and the wheel well. Are there tires that are tall enough and aggressive looking like AT that I can place without lifting the vehicle? Ok, so I’m willing to change wheels to 19 or even 18 to fill in my wheel well. Any suggestions ? Thanks !
Jim’s Auto Service 23385 Crest Forest Dr Crestline, CA 92325 United States (909) 338-1946 Call atleast a week in advance for an appointment, and I recommend making a camping trip out of it. The San Bernardino Mountains is a beautiful place (Crestline, Arrowhead and Big Bear). It’ll be worth it to travel to him.
My last 3 vehicles have been turbocharged, and I'm done with them. It's been a "pay to play" affair. The mid range torque is nice, but I had no idea a 3.5V6 with VTEC could be so much fun! That's one of the main reasons I fell in love with the passport, how quick it is (especially for it's size).
Haha! Yes! Not the ideal lift kit. I think a solid strut spacer would work best. Aww man, well, the CVT went out in the 2015 FXT. When I got it back I thought of the long term. But!!! That’s not the main reason I went to another vehicle. I’m very particular and I had a big list of needs and wants. I wasn’t planning on purchasing another car, but one day I was bored and checked out a Toyota Tacoma. A lot of people drive them and use them as overlanding vehicles, but... I didn’t fit in the thing. The cabin is so small. Then I checked out a 4 runner. I really liked the 4 runner, but knowing the new model is going to be released next year and knowing that I’d get 10-15 mpg (with my driving style) I wasn’t interested. And then.... the Honda dealership was right next door, and in the distance, I saw what looked like the new Honda Passport. I took the thing for a test drive and was impressed. I couldn’t believe a vehicle this large could be this quick. It was just so smooth, refined and luxurious for something $37K. Try checking out a 2019 RAV4 adventure and it’s $35,500 price tag. These two cars aren’t nearly close. I’ve been looking at The new RAV4 since my girlfriend wants one, and I can’t believe these two vehicles are similarly priced. The Honda is easily $10,000 more valuable. Whew, that’s a long winded answer isn’t it? So to make sure I answer you. I bought the Honda Passport because I fell in love with it, not because I felt I needed to ditch the FXT because the CVT went bad.
Going with CVTs was the worse decision for Subaru. They've lost so much of the character of the car and diluted the driving experience for minimal fuel savings. They should go the route of Ford and Germans and bring 8 or 9 speed autos and I suspect they'd do it if they had the money. Their engines are far more efficient now and the CVT just isn't necessary.
My Honda has a German 9 speed, and the 2022 Nissan Pathfinder (the majority share holder of Jatco, largest manufacturer of CVTs) will be going with the same German 9 speed. I guarantee a Subaru would be more efficient with a ZF9. I cruise the highways at 1k RPMs
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I've owned an outback 3.6 (2016) and multiple subarus. I now have TRD 4Runner 2018 and it shocked me to hear the relatively good MPGs. I'm seriously considering a trade for a Passport though given the driving experience, the sweet drivetrain. great video though
Good info and testing on the Pilot against Subaru's (what it's main competitors are IMO, Outback & Xterra owner) also cool to see you mention my buddy @Patrick Rich. I want to tell my Dad to get the Passport over the Pilot or Subaru's.
Thanks Garrett Bentley! I have the Passport and researched everything about it before my purchase. I previously owned a Subaru Forester XT and before that a 2010 WRX. The Passport is awesome! But.... in the next 2 years there’s going to be a lot more options with the new 4Runner and Bronco. Then give it another 5 years and there will be a lot more changes. For now, I’ll enjoy this Honda.
Hello, There is the myth that the lifting kit says it puts pressure on the car springs, and it would not be so indicated. I have a 2011 Honda CR-V and I want to increase its ground clearance. There are not too many options, but the price of a lifting kit is the same as the four springs. Which would be the best option!
Dumi Razvan I’m not familiar with how CRV’s are lifted, but my guess it will use spacer lift. This should not compress the spring, but again, I’m not familiar with how a CRV is lifted. I’m also not an expert on lift kits, but I can share what I know. I’m familiar with how my Honda Passport is lifted. My lift kit consists of 4 spacers and front way bar end link replacements.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring But if you had to choose between a set of lifting springs and a lifting kit, which is the best option! Both prices are in the same area, 300-350 €
@@dumirazvan8741 That's the perfect example of me not being familiar with Honda CRV's. Before my Honda Passport I drove 2 Subaru's, and in the Subaru world lifting springs will decrease wheel travel (bad for offroad) and strut spacers are a better option. I'm not sure what's better for a CRV.
I love your videos John, thanks. Question: As an owner of a '19 Passport, will it break my warranty to add a lift kit (maybe just the 2 inch kit w/no wheel-well alterations)?
Coach Aub the lift kit should void your suspension components, but I had a friend that was able to get his axles covered under warranty at 74k miles. I don’t know how he did it, it just varies from dealership to dealership.
Kao vue, yes, the alignment was within spec performed by the Honda Dealership. One thing to mention is that I carry 100 lbs of gear on my roof and another 100 lbs under the cargo floor. I noticed a bit of rear sag, which means the extra weight may help keep my Passport within spec.
Grand Cherokee V8 Quadra drive II a little lift and 33” tires are good enough for me. It is a good street compromise and off road compromise although a little small on the inside for my tastes. I do like the Honda, maybe for the wifey! Also I think more off-road aggressive tires would help too.
Yah Yah I had two Subaru’s prior to my Passport. The Passport is a totally different vehicle, It’s more truck like. That’s what Honda intended it to be, a light truck, but let’s be honest, it’s also nothing like a body on frame truck. I use to drive a FJ cruiser. So I like to describe my passport as “my 2010 WRX and my 2008 FJ cruiser had a baby”. If you purchase a passport, get it lifted, that will put it in a great place. Still handles on-road great!
Hey John Deasy, you catch some mad footage with that Honda. Best explanation of Honda's torque vectoring rear differential system. I agree that it, In practice, is truly magical. Hope I can replicate your success with my 2019 Ridgeline Sport.
Jamel Keeling I had a tough time searching for a lift kit for a 2017 pathfinder, but I think I found something! I show that the 4th generation pathfinder goes from 2013 to present. According to this item, it might be compatible with your 2017 Pathfinder. I’d just reach out to them and confirm to be safe. www.ebay.com/itm/FITS-PATHFINDER-2005-2015-LIFT-KIT-2-5-1-5-POLY-COIL-STRUT-SPACERS-R-4WD-USA/191775082304?hash=item2ca6af8740%3Ag%3A9ToAAOSwAKxWWLRh&fits=Year%3A2013%7CModel%3APathfinder%7CMake%3ANissan www.ebay.com/itm/FITS-PATHFINDER-2005-2015-LIFT-KIT-2-5-1-5-POLY-COIL-STRUT-SPACERS-R-4WD-USA/191775082304?hash=item2ca6af8740%3Ag%3A9ToAAOSwAKxWWLRh&fits=Year%3A2013%7CModel%3APathfinder%7CMake%3ANissan
Burkhan 😉. Totally different vehicles. The old passports are actually Isuzu Rodeo’s rebadged Honda’s. They were also rebadged Holden Passports in Australia I believe.
Jack Allen this is actually a 2 inch Traxda lift kit (front and back) and 2 inch taller tires. Total lift is 3 inches. The lift kid consists of a 2 inch front strut spacers and 1 inch rear spacers (the rear lifts at a 2:1 ratio) and front sway bar endlinks. Traxda is working on a 3.5 inch lift kit. It’s a bit more complicated and I don’t have all the details, but it will consists of a sub drop, high lift rear control arms, and spacers. At that point, I think I’ll mount 33’s.
Jack Allen, also note to fit my 32’s I had to cut out a 5” wide by 4” tall rectangle out of the rear side of the front wheel wells. The pieces were really thin in thickness, maybe 1/8” or 1/16”. I did some hammering for good measure. No rub, even at full suspension compression. With no cutting, you can fit 31’s with slight rub.
That is what Honda is "supposed" to be about - no BS reliable vehicle that works for what it is designed and advertised to do ;) It also looks great. I wish there was a version of Passport max 1.85m wide and offered on Japanese market. For now it is very likely I will just inherit brother in law`s Jeep Gr Cherokee Laredo. I am not sure if it has LSD in the rear, I might upgrade that when needed for hiking and hunting when time comes. Great video. Interesting stuff. Good luck.
Delivers92130 good question! I purchased it online from Traxda for $377. The price for professional installation should be between $400-$800. This kit is for the Ridgeline and the Pilot, but someone figured out it’s also compatible with the Passport. Jsport USA is also another company that should be offering a lift specific to the Honda Passport. I own a skid plate from them and their quality is top notch! traxda.com/honda-lift-and-leveling-kits/2017-honda-ridgeline-awd-2x4-4x4-2-front-2-rear-lift-kit-202040.html
Hey! love your videos, I am looking at getting a comfortable on road vehicle that can do some light off roading. So far I have narrowed down my look to a 19' Forester sport, Honda Passport or Ridgeline. What are your thoughts and recommendations?
That’s a good question and I believe it basically comes down to money. A 2019 Subaru Forester can be had for as low as $25K. A Honda Passport/Ridgeline AWD will start at $33K. The Forester comes with 8.7 inches of ground clearance but the CVT can struggle going up steep hills and obstacles. The Passport and Ridgeline have less ground clearance at 8.1 inches and worse approach and break-over angles so that is their weakness. Comparing the passport to the Ridgeline, besides the obvious differences (truck vs. suv) the Passport has a 20.4:1 crawl ratio and the Ridgeline only has a 14.3:1 crawl ratio. That’s why the Passport is Honda’s most capable offroader. Good luck on your choice! Let me know if you have any specific questions.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring You may want to take MPG into consideration too, as the Forester is going to get unbelieveable mpg. Easily the Passport is more capable, but again the ground clearance/depart approach angles limit it.
@@kartboarder22g17 with these mods, it's better than my Forester. everything except the breakover angle (which isn't much different after the lift), MPG's, ground clearance, offroad angles. We're **talking** my Modified FXT vs. my modified Passport. You also have to take into consideration tire size and height. The bigger the tires, the flatter the world gets. Running over ruts is so much easier. I had 29.0 inch tires on the Forester 235mm wide. The Passport has 31.6 inch tires 265mm wide.
@@kartboarder22g17 my 2 inch lifted FXT with 29 inche tires had 9 inches at the front skid plate and 9.5 inches at the rear differential. The Honda Passport **with 31.6 inch tires and a 2 inch lift, has 10 inches at the front skid plate and 11.5 inches at the rear differential ( there's a pointy thing that sticks out of the frame, if it isn't there it's 12.5 inches at the rear differential).
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Agreed its a pretty impressive vehicle, plus it has more storage within too, right which comes in handy camping. If you have the money its definetly the better way to go.
Did you see Honda's attempt at an Overland package? 1.5" front lift and 0.75" rear. www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2019/05/16/automotive-minute-nissan-and-honda-debut-new.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
Alex, I did. Honda’s adventure vehicle was actually made by the company Jsport. They made the skid plate that I bought on the 3rd day of ownership. They are the only ones making offroad equipment for the Honda Ridgeline, Pilot, Passport that I’m aware of. The concept vehicle won’t be for everyone. I think the best way to appreciate this concept “adventure package” is to take a close look at each component separately. Starting with the roof, you’ll see a Front runner style cargo platform. That’s absolutely incredible there’s already one available!!!!!! It typically takes years for aftermarket parts to become available. How about the rear bumper tire carrier? It looks like minimal obstruction to the rear window. To be honest. I’m not a fan of the front brush bar. I value all my ground clearance and approach angle, BUT... it looks like it can be easily modified to accommodate my “already cut” bumper. If you ask me... IM JUST STOKED the Passport already has quality after market support!!!! Thank you Jsport!!!!!
Kevin Sullivan yes, I did the install myself. Pretty easy to do. There’s two large bolts that you unscrew at one of the crossmembers and four large bolts that connect at the radiator support beam. It’s just a matter of unscrewing, inserting the skid plate and then re-screwing.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring In terms of fitting a full-size spare in this thing, are most opting for a roof cargo carrier? Or just throwing it in the back? Really wish the wheel storage well under the cargo area would fit a full size spare.
I think those trails would definitely be more user friendly with a low range! I luv my ‘08 Liberty with factory skid plates but it definitely needs a lift!
Quikgt, you can never have too little ground clearance! Well... unless your a race or rally car, then too much would be bad 🤣. It’s funny you mention low range! So interestingly enough, this Passport has the same transmission and has the same final drive as the Jeep renegade and Compass Trailhawk models. My first gear is the same as the 4 Low button in those mini jeeps.
Sorry, but I don’t think I understand the question, but I’ll try to answer. Before this 2 inch lift, I cut some metal out of the wheel well and mounted 265/65R18 Cooper discovery AT3 4S tires. Even with the 2 inch lift, these tires would have rubbed. Mounting these tires is only possible by cutting out a 5” wide by 4” tall rectangle out of the rear section of the front wheel wells.
Traxda 2inch lift kit (front and rear) for a 2017+ Honda Ridgeline/Pilot. The front is lifted at a 1:1 ratio, the rear lifts at a 2:1 ratio. traxda.com/honda-lift-and-leveling-kits/2017-honda-ridgeline-awd-2x4-4x4-2-front-2-rear-lift-kit-202040.html
That's a good question, if I remember correctly he used it at first and then he tried turning it off, using S#, manual mode, 1st gear ratio. I can tell you, having owned a 2015 Forester XT, once a wheel gets in the air **during a hill climb**, power stops going to the wheels. Choosing the right line and using enough momentum will be key.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks for the answer. I've bought a forester a few months ago and now i just read bad things about the cvt. I have also been in a situation in which the power was not transferred, and now I do not want to drive off-road.
@@DaHerrKulzer check out my latest video. I finally got around to making a video about the CVT (I use to own a 2015 Forester XT). I have have some good info on how you can prolong the life of the CVT and it's limits offroad. th-cam.com/video/AVptZ1bfwfs/w-d-xo.html
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I have already seen the video. Very good content. I was with my forester in the situation that I drove down a slope, and in front of me was a stone that I did not see. My car stuck to the stone, and I could not go back because of the cvt. Now a part of my bottom is destroyed. Meanwhile, I hate that cvt. Sorry for my bad english, I am from Germany :)
@@DaHerrKulzer no need to apologise. I too have been in that situation. I was stuck going uphill and there was a rock in front of me and a rock behind me. I was wedged. If I was by myself then I would have been stuck. Luckily I had friends to help push my Forester XT free.
Jon 310 yes, it is. It’s more of like a unibody truck, and that’s what Honda calls it “a light truck”. It’s very much a different vehicle. One thing to point out is that Passport AWD models have 8.1 inches of minimum clearance and all Modern Subaru’s all have 8.7 of minimum clearance. There are situations where those 0.6 inches can make a difference, especially since the Outback has a shorter whew base. Once lifted with taller tires, the Passport really comes into its own. I now have 11 inches of minimum clearance (not counting rear lower control arms - 9 inches at lowest point), with 15 inches of max clearance. Unfortunately, What limits the modern Outback the most is the CVT. But you’ll be surprised at how many places a CVT can still take you. Check out this Instagram clip and watch both video clips. Btw, This was before my Passport was lifted, but I did have 2 inch taller tires giving the passport 9.1 inches of clearance. instagram.com/p/BwPLMv-Hi3F/?igshid=a6hums1v4kz5
Much cheaper replacing brake pads than clutch packs in those limit life differentials. The more you abuse that vehicle the more issues, and worn those clutch packs out...big bill.
The rear differential in the passport is electronically controlled. The RDU (rear drive unit) is $800, but it designed to last for a very very long time. It’s not a standard LSD that dies after 40k miles. Actually, I already have 56K miles on the passport, nothing has had to be replaced besides fluids from regular maintenance (I go off the severe duty schedule btw).
I'm only halfway through the video but I can't help myself: *the Subaru CVT sucks* 👎 It sucks in the dry, it sucks in the wet, it sucks in the sand as evidenced here, it sucks in the snow. The only place it sucks less is a straight line doing constant speed down an interstate highway. Your Honda is doing pretty well on the other hand, nice! Ok time to watch the rest. 😊 #SaveTheManuals
#SaveTheManuals I’m starting to sound like a broken record (If you read my other comments). I feel like an idiot for supporting a Subaru CVT. I love love the brand, but it breaks my heart to see people go through this shit (having a really expensive part, break on them). Let’s see how many more years Subaru will continue to run the CVT. Subaru should really start offering their premium vehicles with more robust transmissions. Everything that doesn’t come with a 2.5L NA engine should not have a CVT.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Couldn't agree more. I'm not arguing for every Subaru to be MT, but at least put a capable AT in there that won't roll over and give up. So disappointing for so many LOYALE 😉 customers. Great video Jon, thanks for fostering the conversation.
Does the Ridgeline have the same AWD system? Also do you think the Ridgeline could stand its own, although I know it does not have the ground clearance which is a major issue. Thank you!
T-Boomer Fishing yes, the Ridgeline has the same AWD system but a 6 speed transmission. The difference in crawl ratio is 14:1 vs. 20:1 which is a bit substantial, but... the Ridgeline will still be able to go many places. There’s also a 3.5 inch lift kit for it now. Check out @traxdausa on Instagram and Facebook.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I wonder why they wouldn't gear the Ridgeline the same? Is there a benefit to having the lower ratio for the Ridgeline? Also, thank you for your videos and responses! They are awesome! I was almost sold on a Subaru but something felt off after driving them. I went and drove a Ridgeline after watching your videos and its amazing. I just don't want to give up the ability to do some fun off-road stuff.
T-Boomer Fishing if you haven’t pulled the trigger yet, wait. There’s a Rumor the Ridgeline will be getting a more aggressive crawl ratio. We just don’t know if it will get an actual low gear transfer case, the Honda 10 speed, or the ZF9 speed.
CharlietoKind the tire in this video is 6.8% taller. If my speedo says 40mph, I’m really doing 42, if it says 80, I’m really doing 84. A taller tire will affect gearing. It will lower crawl ratio, which means less MPG in stop and go traffic and more MPG cruising on the freeway. BUT, because the new tires have a more aggressive tread pattern and is made of a softer rubber compound there’s more friction and I lose MPG’s from that.
No, this is the 2-inch Traxda lift kit. 2 inch front & 2 inch rear. It’s a strut spacer kit with front sway bar links. $377. Note that the passport lifts at a 1:1 ratio in the front and 2:1 ratio in the rear. The rear spacers are 1 inch in height because of that. I have a Jsport front skid plate, and at the front skid plate I have 10.5 inches of clearance and 11.5 at the rear differential.
09ThunderOne I can’t think of any crossover that has anything beyond a spacer or raised spring lift, especially in a vehicle 9 months old. A Unibody doesn’t lift like a body on frame vehicle, it’s less complicated (and cheaper too! Parts were $377).
Well, first of all, Who Knew the Honda iVTM4/2016+ SHAWD are one of the best AWD systems on the market. These systems have been flying under the radar for 3 years. Before I even thought about purchasing a Passport, I checked the Honda Ridgeline and Pilot to make sure lift kits available. I knew it would be easier to run larger tires compared to my old Subaru too. The limitation with the Subaru is clearance at the spring perch.
Sonny Mercado I’m familiar with those systems. I looked at them all. The reason I purchased this Honda Passport is because the pilot and ridgeline really stood out when being tested on youtube. TFL-C (the fast lane car) had fantastic results when testing these vehicles. Car question had similar results. Driving sports TV also showed impressive capabilities. I have not seen the other brands test as well. A system that I’m hearing a lot of is KIA’s Htrac system in the Telluride, and they have the gearing to back it up. I know it can be hard to believe that a Honda and possibly a Kia could have the two most capable AWD systems on the market. I’m kinda still shocked myself. I shouldn’t have said “iVTM4 and SH-AWD” system is the “best”, so I’ll edit my previous comment to “one of the best”. I considered wording that differently, but I wanted to make sure I got my opinion across.
Yeah but what you pay to get a lift get professionally installed is more or equal to The cost of the tools, and you get to keep the tools for the next job. What's it cost to get a lift kit installed, $100 a wheel conservatively? Harbor freight charges like $150 for a nice steel jack, $100 for a trans jack, $20 for a pry bar. There's even money left over for a small compressor and impact gun.
paulg35c it’s your money. That’s mind boggling though. I’m genuinely curious, Why would you settle for a 1.5 inch lift kit? Also, why would you want to spend 3x the money for aluminum? The Passport isn’t a light vehicle. Even lighter Subaru’s weighting 3500 lbs. use real steel.
JonDZ Adventuring you raise good point . I have been in fence with 1.5 and 2in. I had looked at your kit as well and was just bit concerned as missing bolts. I move from SoCal to Washington for work and don’t have access to shops like I use to. So it would be diy myself with my tools . I’m very hands on with my cars but when comes to suspension just more cautious. How is your holding up ? Just FYI Honda awd works amazing in snow
paulg35c their products are questionable. The safari bumper is basically a snow plow, reducing ground clearance. Their rock sliders extrude out at the bottom, which will lead to getting hung up on rocks. Their skid plate did not hold up. I’m glad they made one to protect my vehicle, but it had a fatal design flaw. The front of the skid plate is secured via really small M6 bolts. Those bolts are designed to hold a plastic splash guard, not a 30 lb. aluminum skid plate! Where was the R&D??? I had to make my own modifications to it to get it work. The company NoLo designs has listened to the community and has made a skid plate that will actually hold up. I wish Jsport the best. Companies can change. I have given them recommendations about products I think the offroad community would want. I’m out here living this lifestyle, if they could listen to feedback they could probably turn things around. But let’s be honest... their R&D is lacking. Traxda has come up with an axle relocation kit to fit 32.1” inch diameter tires. They offer a 3.5 inch lift kit. Nolo designs has made a rear differential skid plate and gas tank skid plate.
Blazer engineer Larry Milhalko says in the TFL review the RS has Twin Clutch AWD system that sends up to 60% of torque to the rear and also torque vectors(100%) the differential left and right. TFLcar
Norm T do you have the video link? I can’t find any info or press release about the blazer premium AWD system other than the system has a twin clutch rear. Automotive journalist have called out Chevy about not being forthcoming with info about the twin clutch awd system. One saying that they were told the blazer can send up to 85% of wheel torque to an outside rear wheel but no info on how much could go to the rear. A video link would be appreciated.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring GM doesnt have to over market their Twin Clutch AWD with torque vectoring as it does the job and with no modes to enter or traction control to shut off. The GM Emgineer was a TFL video during the release of the new Blazer. Here is a three roller test of Twin Clutch on a XT5. th-cam.com/video/E9lK3BvIHEg/w-d-xo.html
@@JonDZ_AdventuringAnother article about the Envision stating that the MDX had to be pushed off a set of flat rollers, not inclined, when just the front wheel was on the ground. www.extremetech.com/extreme/244191-buick-joins-torque-vectoring-goes-snow-wheel-drive-show
Norm T first of all, thank you giving me a reason to do a little research on the AWD system in the chevy. It’s not Chevy’s a AWD system, it’s made by GKN. They supply rear diff twin clutch systems to GM, Ford, Range Rover, and Volvo among others. As you might know, TFL does this test called “Gold Mine Hill”. *There’s a big dip on one side that will get one wheel in the air*. A GKN dual clutch equipped vehicle attempted this test, the brand new Ford Expedition. I think you would agree, this vehicle would be perceived to be more off-road capable than the Camaro-cross... I mean... Blazer. Welp, it didn’t make it up. You also might know that the Honda Pilot and Ridgeline made it up in impressive fashion, and those vehicles joined the “short list” of vehicles that have completed this test. I also need to point out the Volvo XC90 and XC60 has made it up and those two vehicles ARE equipped with the GKN dual clutch rear. So will a Blazer make it up Gold Mine hill? Well, won’t know unless GM tries. But You have to keep in mind that the Blazer is an on-road crossover, it only has 7.5 inches of ground clearance (although Honda wasn’t afraid to give TFL their Honda Pilot with only 7.3 inches). *The Ford Edge is the Blazers main competitor* and Ford has not supplied TFL with a Ford Edge (not GKN dual clutch rear equipped) for off-road testing either. *Again, they are on-road crossovers*. By the way, about those two links you provided: First, the roller test is useless unless other vehicles are tested on the same roller test. Second, that 2017 article about the Buick Enclave was compared against a “decade” old Acura. 😐. Welp, I guess we both learned something. But there was one thing I learned before I purchased my Honda Passport. Honda’s twin clutch *rear diff* is BADASS. *edits in bold*
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I never said it was Chevy or a GM diff I know GKN does the Evoque and Focus RS. Each manufacturer programs then differently. The 3-roller is a good test for steering wheel straight metric and one test where a 2016 Acura MDX SH-AWD(because the 2016 RDX sucks compared to the Buick Envision) can not compete with GM Twin Clutch. It is an extreme test and not many can pass and still provide +30 mpg. Something Honda/Acura AWD systems come up short on. The new Blazer RS handles as well as the Alfa Rmoeo Stelvio Ti 2.0T in Motor Trend figure-eight test. Which is saying allot. Honda and Acura have always been average in handling and poor in braking performance. Probably why Motor Trend likes the Blazer RS over the Passport. 2016 Envision 2.0T with torque vectoring AWD on the rollers vs 2016 Acura RDX(CR-V-based AWD). Video is embedded in the article. www.gminsidenews.com/articles/47218-2/ 2018 Buick Regal TourX 2.0T with torque vectoring AWD vs 2018 Volvo V60 on the rollers: m.facebook.com/groups/316013335874394?view=permalink&id=367827414026319&_rdr Buick Regal Sportback 2.0T with torque vectoring AWD vs Audi A5 Quattro on the rollers: th-cam.com/video/YtoTCbHpNoM/w-d-xo.html
The passport is like the new pilot its look like a pilot 2015 the new pilot 2019 look like a mini van the passport look like a jeep or an explorer but the VSA is probably not good for offroad
There was a stock Tacoma TRD pro that I didn’t include in the video. He was spinning tires, the 1999 Passport did better than him, more articulation. But yeah.... of course a dedicated off-roader would do better. That’s like saying my Passport would be laughing at a 4Runner TRD pro on the street and 0-60mph.
JonDZ Adventuring i drove a 4runner TRD a while back (2019 model) and the car is pretty amazing in rock climbing and light off roading , low gears definitely handles most of the stuff but if you get stuck the crawl system is even better in figuring out terrains .. But i would agree the passport is probably much faster on road and better in terms of features and tech ..
I just rode with a 100 series Land Cruiser (in the form of a Lexus LX 470) yesterday. That thing is amazing! Has IFS but that thing is a tank! Video will be released soon, and ... for the most part, it’s what you’d expect. I’m going to make the title of the video. “2019 Honda Passport Vs. 100 series LandCruiser, you’ll be surprised at the results (JK)”. Haha! Click bait titles simply get attention, but the JK will be at the end of the video title. 😂
Hillbilly engineering...... leaving a space between the two lift plates will not allow the fastener to stay tightened. There should be a spacer welded in between the two plates... JUNK !!!!
Camera footage is horrible you need to stop recording in the shade or shadow of the vehicles go on the side where the sun is shining you will see the tires rotating a lot easier and the vehicle a lot easier
Mikey Smith / Horizontally Thanks for the feedback! Don’t fall do the edge of the world 🤣 and Keep up the great work and epic camera angles in your videos. You’re a Star 🤩.
Mikey Smith / Horizontally Appozed whoa whoa whoa! I never said there was. That’s like saying I’m assuming your life is hard because I said, “take it easy”.
Hey John, nice stuff! I finished that diff story I was telling you about, it may be what your looking for in terms of a rundown on lads and lockers
www.autoanything.com/resources/whats-the-diff/
Thank you Mr. Patrick Rich! I've read your entire article, great stuff! So it turns out I don't have a LSD or a Locker afterall, but a Twin Clutch system controlled by a RDU (rear drive unit). I never hear of something like that before, sounds like something that would be on my computers motherboard. This comment is getting pinned!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring they are fascinating units, they don't weigh alot but they perform the duties of both center and rear diff, they are torque vectoring and they are better at transferring torque than most of the on demand systems on the market. they have their faults to be sure but they are pretty effective
Hey Patrick, indeed very interesting stuff! In your article, you discussed some of the advantages of the two clutch systems, but I would like to know what are the disadvantages of such system?
@@Jazzme3 The main disadvantages are how long they can operate and how they disengage. Because there is no differential (center or rear) all the speed bias between left and right wheels has to happen with slipping clutches, and any power sent to the back is the same story. Especially true on the Honda unit because of the overdrive gearset on each axle shaft that allows for torque vectoring with yaw control. in the case of the Honda whenever an axle shaft is engaged its driving 2.7% faster than the input. Even in a straight light the rear wheels will try and turn faster than the fronts which cant happen for obvious reasons which means more clutch slipping. All this slipping means heat and thermal management becomes a big deal. as such these systems only engage when called on and disengage the moment they aren't needed. In the case of the Honda, its only active to ~20 mph and it will limit activity with large steering inputs, among other things as it relies on sensor input to know if differential action is needed now, instead of it being done mechanically. Basically heat is the enemy and anytime these systems engage they get hot, it also means accelerated wear since the clutches are skipping, though thats not a huge concern with the type of wet clutches these have.
These systems are getting popular though; range rover evoke, blazer, tour-x, Rav4 adventure, focus rs, etc, etc.
The 1st gen systems seem to be holding up well so thats encouraging.
Patrick Rich that’s very encouraging since Honda says the design and heat management is improved for their 2016+ Premium AWD systems (ivtm, shawd). Welp, if this RDU goes out, I’m sure it won’t be as nearly expensive to repair compared to a Subaru CVT. I can live with that.
Love how the truck just made it look easy at the end.
Matt Pezzino that’s not just any truck, that’s a 1999 Honda Passport aka the “Honduzu”. It’s basically a 2nd generation Isuzu Rodeo but it’s badged a Honda. It has Solid axles and a rear limited slip differential and shamed A brand new Toyota Tacoma TRD Pro while we were out there. The taco was spinning tires, so I assumed he was in 2wd, but so was Eric and the Honduzu.
this kind of videos made me decide to get a Honda Passport, enjoying it now in the outdoors!
Good video. It’s great to see the Honda Passport being pushed off road because that what is was designed for.
Thank you Honda Pro! Now I’m in the know!!! 😃
It’s really awesome getting a comment from you, it means a lot to me.
I always wondered if a torque vectoring differential could be used to simulate a locker. I didn't know that Honda actually did it. People don't give these things enough credit.
Keep up with the great Honda Passport offroad video's. Next stop "Hell Revenge"! If a Kia Sorento made it, the Passport should.....
Rick Funk thanks! The Kia Sorento video is interesting. It’s heavily edited
And I wish I could have been there to record the whole thing. You know I’d keep it real. I suspect there was a lot of scraping going on with that Base 7.3 inches of ground clearance. They should have at-least lifted it, which would be a lot more realistic than disconnecting a rear sway bar. I don’t know any softroader out there that disconnects his sway bar before hitting a trail. But I know hundreds upon hundreds of Subaru owners that are lifted. a stock Kia Sorento doesn’t meet the minimum requirements for a high clearance vehicle. So, it was truly a publicly stunt. What they wanted to PROVE was that their drive train can handle it, and I think they definitely hit their goal. I think I’ll pass on hells gate 😇.
I’m really intrigued by the Kia Telluride and the H-Trac AWD system. They come with a proper 8 inches of ground clearance 👍. I’d love to ride with one sometime, or a lifted Kia! I’d like to ride with anything! I have to admit, owning my previous Subaru, I was a bit close minded to other AWD brands. Every brand might offer some quirk that can make it capable on the trails, so my mind is now open, and i want to be an advocate for inspiring any AWD crossover/suv owner to get their softroaders outdoors. I’d definitely like to expand my channel to feature and promote other softroaders.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I don't know if you've seen the Primal Outdoors channel ( th-cam.com/users/primalarcher ). This is a guy over in central Oregon who has been running an old Ford pickup with a Turtleback trailer, but is now building a Kia Telluride. They machined their own lift kit, have added a bumper and winch, and working on other offroad/overland mods. There's not a lot of video of it yet on the TH-cam channel as they've only just been working on the build - I think I've seen more of it on his Instagram - but I'm sure we'll be seeing the built Telluride in action very soon. Jason makes beautiful videos exploring Oregon backcountry and he'll certainly be putting that thing to the test.
Great vids and thanks for sharing. If I was looking for a new ride, the passport would be on the top of my list. Great looking ride and plenty of size for overlanding.
Thank you Vegas Yo! That's my goal! To build a low key, aerodynamic overlander. My cargo carrier box has a full size spare, picnic table, two camping chairs, a pop up fire pit, DIY awning system. So at any given moment, my girlfriend and I can setup some place to chill and relax. I'll definitely be looking to install solar panels and a mini fridge.
Hello Jonh, nice videos and slow motions. As i guess you are happy moving from Suby to Honda Passport
19:00 that's freaking impressive AF.
This video is so full of knowledge. Thank you for sharing
Dreamy you’re very welcome!
Awesome! Love the new Passport and love Honda.
Honda's VTM4 system doesn't get enough credit!
Great vid. The Passport is looking *fantastic* with the lift, and the trail performance is very impressive. I would SO love to be able to crawl up a challenging trail like that rather than rely on momentum. I find that in those wheel-lift scenarios my Forester actually does better with traction control ON, coupled with just a bit of momentum. There's always a moment of hesitation while the computer figures out what it wants to do but then up I go. In mushy stuff when I want to maintain maximum wheel spin and avoid any of the brakes getting applied, I turn traction control off. Obviously that's my older 4EAT though, I really can't speak to how it all interacts with the CVT...I was out on sand dunes yesterday with a CVT Crosstrek; both of us had traction control switched off, but the Crosstrek struggled noticeably more than my Forester going uphill in soft sand.
Anyway, this was super informative and interesting, and I hope Subaru is paying attention to what Honda has been quietly accomplishing. The Passport is looking like a better choice than a new Outback or Forester for someone after a comfortable daily that can handle running some challenging trails. The fact that lifts and skids are available for it - not to mention Honda's stellar and lengthy record of reliability - make it a very compelling option.
The clip at the very end going up in 2-wheel-drive was impressive and really underscores the role that suspension flex can play. I've yet to muck about with disconnecting my sway bars but this might just motivate me to see how much of a difference that might make. Thanks Jon, awesome work as always!
softroadingthewest thank you for insightful comment! I share the exact same sentiments!
I really hope I’m not coming off as someone that hates CVT’s all of a sudden. I really thought my CVT was going to last, because I brought my vehicle in for regular maintenance and I felt my driving style wasn’t very abusive.
But... it seems it’s inevitable. By the time a SJ Forester XT reaches 100K miles, the CVT is most likely to die. Why this happens makes a little sense. You see, the TR690 transmission is Subaru’s 1st generation lineartronic CVT. It can handle a little more torque but it’s design is not as efficient as the 2nd generation TR580 transmission found in all lower powered Subaru’s (2.0, 2.5 naturally aspirated). So, my guess is that since there’s more power and torque going through a less efficient transmission, this is the outcome. So now, I’m interested to see how the Subaru Ascent and upcoming Outback XT are going to hold up.
So with all that said, it was so sad to hear about more and more people with dead CVT’s. Now we are seeing a rise in the automatic transmission. Watch the latest episode of Engineering explained and he talks about how good the modern Automatic transmissions are now, rivaling dual clutch transmissions as far as performance, and CVT’s are far as fuel economy. I’m super happy with my 9 speed auto.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I think you of all people have earned the right to gripe about the CVT. You're doing a public service by talking about it.
Loving your vids. After my wife said she wanted one of these, I immediately started research. So want to mod this thing!
That's awesome! The best thing about my mods is that they're not breaking the bank! It cost me $377 for the lift kit and lets say around $400-500 to get it installed by a professional.
People come here to see which car is better. I come here to enjoy seeing you guys having fun
Thanks Han's whiterx ! We are definitely having fun.
Enjoyed the video as always, i cant wait until i go to Nate and get my lift installed!
Rob Mascarinas I’m excited for you! You’ll be in good hands!
Passport is basically a new version of a second generation MDX. Very very similar measurement. Sh-awd , same ground clearance.
I won't refute that! I'm also twinning with this lifted 2010 Acura MDX
instagram.com/p/Bx2nMu-gf-6/?igshid=1ig9q8rpnbof3
I had an 2008 PILOT..locking the REAR VTM Diff and crawling a bad spot, they never stop, they don't bog, they just crawl through.
that was with street tires and stock set up....HONDA AWD units are awesome
Congrats on the lift! Looks badass.
Thank you Umbra!
Looks like, Your rear kit is installed incorrectly, plates bolt to the strut first then to the body not trough. Should be total of 6 fasteners per side. That is why it did not line up.
Yep! We found that out when I had the 3.5” lift kit installed! I went this long without knowing about it! 🤣
Is it possible next time you record the digital torque distribution gage and show side by side with your wheel views? I'm quite interested in how Honda wants us to interpret the display. It's obvious the distribution don't add up to 100%. Thanks
Absolutely man! I’ll be heading to Arizona next week and I’m sure I’ll have the opportunity to shoot another episode.
I work at a Honda dealership and I am driving a 2019 Passport Elite for a demo. It would be so cool if i could do this to the my demo and take on awsome excursions like this. Great video man.
John Canstatine you know, my girlfriend doesn't even realized I've purchased new tires and lifted this thing. Maybe your dealership won't notice either :P
@@JonDZ_Adventuring no worries ....I can't imagine any Honda dealer giving the JonDZ a hard time with warranty work. Us Honda guys live vicariously through you.
SoftRoadingTheWest sent me here!! Really enjoy how you showed how the Passport made it up the dirt\sandy hill!! Good analysis. I have a Honda Ridgeline because I need the 'truck' functionality.
Great videos! Your channel does a better job of demonstrating the fun you can have with this vehicle than anywhere else online right now.
I had a question on if the 2” lift mod affects your powertrain warranty?
Thanks Brian C! Sorry for the late reply. I didn’t have an answer for you when I read your comment, but I had to take my Passport in for my 2nd oil change (I have 11k mikes on this thing and it’s only been 4 months!) and I had the chance to ask the service manager about your question. He said they would have to prove that the modification caused a failed car part. The law is called Magnusson-Moss I believe. The lift kit is a suspension modification and will no doubt void warranty on suspension parts.
Thanks for following up! I love all the reasonable mods you’ve made to you passport. I’ve been waiting to pull the trigger on a touring trim towards end of the model year.
Did you ever consider a Grand Cherokee (Trailhawk or other) aside from a Tacoma in your search??
I used to own a 93 Rodeo and took it out to calico a few times when I lived in SoCal... I have a soft spot for the passport being back (at least in name)!
I think what mods you’ve made would allow all soft-roading I realistically would do while keeping the street efficiencies. Same thought?
Keep up the great job. Looking forward
Brian C I actually considered a full on Jeep Wrangler Rubicon. But what steered me away was the sub par road manners (even though driving dynamics have improved in the JL, all auto publications said it’s still a rough and noisy ride. Now, about the Grand Cherokee, it has very little cargo capacity, BUT that has absolutely zero % why I didn’t consider it. The Only reason I didn’t consider the Grand Cherokee is because of low long term reliability ratings. For my next vehicle, it was going to be a Honda or Toyota period. And if I felt I could have waited another year, I would have waited to see how the new Toyota 4Runner is (with hybrid engine. Look up the 4400 LB. Lexus LC 3.5 hybrid with 345 hp that does 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. If they put that engine in the next 4Runner.... it’s going to be an absolute beast!)
Brian C to answer the 2nd part of your question. *edit* (with how my Passport is modified with the lift, tires and cargo carrier) Yes, I’m able to hit the trails while still being able to get decent MPG’s. I drove 480 miles to flagstaff, Arizona at 21.6 mpg @77mph. That’s from sea level to 7300 ft. Elevation loaded up with camping gear and low wind. But more recently, I drove up 330 miles to Mammoth, CA with high winds and 2 passengers totaling 400 lbs. driving up from sea level to 9000 ft. Elevation I was at 17.1 mpg @ 74mph on the way up. Same parameters on the way down was surprisingly at 19.0 mpg up until I hit civilization. Once I started passing through the cities with a bit of a wind block, my MPG’s improved to 19.6 in the last 50 miles of driving.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks for all the info! keep doing what you do and have a blast on all those trails! looking forward to seeing what else you decide to mod on your passport
I test drove a passport today, was impressed with how it behaved on the pavement. I do own a 4runner and comparing them. As far as off road, Honda is too advanced, making it not too fragile and expensive on the long haul, for off road driving.
You’ll find that releasing air from your tyres can be just as useful as lifting your car, creates more surface area = more grip. Hello from oz
We were too lazy 😉! Airing down was one of the first things I learned from watching Ronny Dahl! Is he a celebrity over there?
@@JonDZ_Adventuring ahah yeah fair enough man. But yeah Ronny dahl is a real good 4WDer and has some really nice content!!!
We always do that when the snow falls as running near 40 psi is not going to provide the best grip.
If you don't count for towing and payload (even so), you can still do about 75 - 80% of what my 80 series can do with this new Passport. That is more than most people need or want to do with their vehicles. Plus it's more comfortable, better freeway manners, better fuel economy. All these are reasons for me to consider one as my next car.
Alex, one of the most down to earth comments I’ve ever seen.
I just got back from a 5 day/ 4 night trip to Flagstaff Arizona for the Overland Expo West (USA) pre-events. This is the same event that Jsport unveiled the Honda Adventure project prototype. It was a 460+ mile drive and I took full advantage of adaptive cruise control and Honda’s self driving assist. It was a comfortable and easy drive. I even felt pretty confident letting the Honda drive while I opened a bag of chips and a can of Coke. Their were calm winds during the drive up from sea level to 7,400 foot elevation. For the first 280 miles we cruised at 73 mph, and for the rest we cruised at 79 mph. I finished the drive getting 21.5 mpg, which I’m very happy with, especially considering my cargo carrier, cut front bumper and all terrain tires.
Serious vehicles like your Land Cruiser, other Toyota’s, Jeeps, Chevy ZR2 Bison are way more than most people need to get through the typical trail. But for the Australian Outback, the Rubicon and Alaska, it would probably be best to take a serious vehicle 😃
@@JonDZ_Adventuring can you do me a favor and try driving your Passport at 60 mph on cruise control? That's always the speed I drive on hwys, even if the posted limit is 70 mph. Only when posted speed is 75 or 80 mph do I increase to 65 mph but I never go above 65 mph for normal cruising. I may go faster to pass, but I'm always at 60 mph while driving in CA. I have a 2016 Limited 2.5i Forester. Without my Yakima Skybox, I get 34.7 MPG on hwys. With the Skybox on my Forester, I'm down to ~27.8 MPG. These #s are from the onboard computer. They're generally more optimistic than reality but at least both sets of numbers are from the same onboard computer. My theory is that your 'low' MPG has to do with your fast driving speeds. So I'd really like to see what you'd get if you drove 60 mph consistently for say 25 miles+. Can you do this experimenter?
I went and tested a Passport Elite two days ago. Pretty nice. I'm thinking of getting one myself now. I love my Forester but I also agree that the damn CVT decreases the true potential of Subaru's AWD system. I'm haven't turned against Subaru's, but I do see major weaknesses in the CVT as compared to the generation before ours where they had a normal automatic transmission. So I've decided to move on from Subaru as well. I was going to go with an Ascent but now i'm looking at the Passport and the Kia Telluride. I test drove the Telluride last night. Not bad either. I really like the Telluride but it's such a hot seller that getting the top trim I want is exceedingly difficult.
My biggest problem with either the Passport or the Telluride is the MPG. To me, the 19 - 24 MPG is just atrocious. I recall in one of your earlier videos when you had your XT where you compared MPG with a box and without a box and how getting 22MPG increased the cost of your trip from something like $87 to $113 or $123 and that's why you won't use a box. I agree using a box is costly but I need more cargo space than what the Forester has so I need the Skybox when I'm on my month long trips. I complain when I get 27/28 MPG with the Forester and the Skybox. I fear I'll go apeshit if I get 19 MPG with a Skybox ontop of the Passport.
So please test drive your Passport for me going 60 mpg on cruise control for 25 or more miles. I want to see what kind MPG you get when driving only 60 mpg. Thanks! p.s. I'm not lifted and I have Discovery AT3 tires on stock 17" wheels. I did the White Rim trail with this setup.
Lance Guilin I will try, I’ll just need to find the right opportunity so it may take a little bit. I’ll do the experiment when i do a trip to Mammoth, CA. I have a ski resort rain check I need to use before the season is over.
I’ve never cruised my vehicles at 60mph, but I’d imagine I would get substantially better MPG’s. The Passport AWD has a rating of 19 city and 24 highway. “Highway MPG” is defined by the EPA as a vehicle that has reached operating temperatures that has an average speed of 48mph with speed not to exceed 60mph.
It’s strange that a Honda Passport sport with 245mm tires is rated at the same MPG’s as a Honda Passport elite with 265 wide tires. I was able to get almost 23 MPG’s @72mph during a 160 mile trip with a cargo “basket”
Lance Guilin, I drive 30,000 miles a year. My mixed driving will vary. I drive more spirited than the average driver and I like to use speed as a defensive measure to distance myself from other drivers, it may be a reason why I’ve never been into an accident. I also will use speed to deal with annoying assholes in Southern California. It’s awesome, I never feel road rage, I’ll just use my wide open throttle so I don’t get cut off or taken advantage of on the streets and highways. So with all that said. I get about 16-18 MPG’s mixed driving with the passport. I’m not kidding, but I’d get about 9-10 mpg in my old 2008 FJ cruiser mixed driving. That’s why I hated that vehicle and wouldn’t want anything like it (ie. 4Runner). So since I drive 30,000 miles a year, this is what the cost would look like.
My 2019 Honda Passport mixed driving fuel cost: $6,562
My 2008 FJ Cruiser mixed driving fuel cost:
$11,667
That’s a whole lot of extra money spent on fuel.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring LOL. Using speed as a defensive measure.... that's an interesting philosophy. Well you gotta do you. ;-)
You live in CA, so you know how much our gas prices suck. I purchased my Forester new in July of 2015. I went with the 2.5i Limited as opposed to the turbo XT mostly due to gas prices / fuel cost. Gas was more expensive back in 2015. I believe the XT requires premium. The Limited uses regular. Add the fact that the Limited gets better MPG and I really didn't have a lot of choice. Sure I could use the turbo from the XT, especially since I go to Colorado and the CA Sierras often -- high elevation. But I just couldn't justify the cost -- like you with a 4Runner or FJ. I actually also would like a 4Runner TDR Pro but fuel economy AND the datedness of the interior turns me off.
30,000 miles a year huh? That's quite a bit. I thought I drove a lot. I have 72k miles in a little less than 4 years. Assume I'm at 75k at the end of this July, I averaged 18,750 / year over 4 years.
Do you use your Passport as a weekend soft-roader only? Or are you actually driving it as a daily driver with that box of yours on top?
You’re lucky no one got hurt! That guy that’s messing about behind the red forester and then the other one that runs in front of the path of the later attempt! Just brutal lack of respect for a moving vehicle. Also when wheels are suspended you want traction control ON. Off is for deep mud and snow when you want momentum. Momentum kills CV joints on this terrain. Passport looks great though!
Thanks for the reminder Dylan. We often forget or neglect safety and we shouldn’t get complacent about trail safety.
The CVT Subaru’s can have a tough time when they don’t utilize momentum and get a running start. So what may look like reckless driving, is dat Subaru Lyfe. I have to vouch that compared to most vehicles, a Subaru does a good job at utilizing momentum. If I would try something similar in my Passport, my suspension would definitely bottom out. With that said, I’m very very happy I have a 20:1 crawl ratio. What’s that Land Rover saying? “As slow as possible, as fast as necessary”. That’s how I like to roll, and I’m milking it in my Honda.
Sorry, I have to ask bc to me it seems really obvious; I get it when someone goes with what they already have and make the best of using it beyond its intended capabilities, but why would you buy a new car with limited capabilities and use it for things that would be handled way better in several other comparable choices of vehicle, i.e. Jeep or Toyota?? Minimally, if only for a low range, so you don't smoke your transmission forcing it to do things it wasn't designed for? And more so, for drive systems that are designed for more than just occasional use and will hold up better? I wish all these cross-overs didn't exist, there would be more choices and more competition for capable suv's like there used to be..
I have answered this question so many times already. I’ll tell you this... I owned a 2008 FJ cruiser. Boom! 🔥
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Well thx. I see a video of someone off roading a crossover, like it was meant for it, didn't really get it, still don't. Looks good tho. Don't kno why u went from an FJ to a crossover, but to each his own. Uh, boom?
wjsj69 no boom 💥! More of like a mic drop 🎤.
The FJ was traded in with 380k miles on it. Still ran great, got 8K for it unbelievably despite it being rear ended twice. I’m not sure if how familiar you are with the toyota steering dead zone, but I didn’t like it at all.
The main reason for the switch was because of MPG’s. I use to frequent the Mammoth Ski resort here in California and its a 330 mile drive from Los Angeles. I wanted a vehicle that could get me there with minimal impact on the wallet. I never offroaded the FJ, and it wasn’t until after I traded it in that I started exploring dirt roads, truck trails and fire roads.
I drive long distances for my adventures, so it’s really important to me that my ride is comfy, it’s easy to drive (as in doesn’t float around), and gets descent MPG’s.
My honest assessment. I’m really impressed by this Honda Passport so far. As far as offroad capability, it slots below the 4runner and Jeep Grand Cherokee but above the other crossovers. It’s built on the Honda light truck architecture and has a beefier frame than the standard crossover. The wheel studs are mid size truck size. The vehicle is dummy proof (well almost). I don’t have to worry about choosing between 2wd and 4H or even 4L. It’s always ready with its 1st gear offering a 20:1 crawl ratio (unlike the Honda Ridgeline, which only has a 14:1 crawl). It has a twin clutch pack rear diff that can simulate a LSD and to some degree a locker. The thing this is missing is better articulation. But.... I guess it wouldn’t be a crossover if it was mushy around the corners.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Ah! Now that's a great answer that makes a lot of sense. Very cool! Thx, that will definitely be valuable info if/when I decide to change vehicles. Maybe you could get or make swaybar disconnects for better articulation. Good luck with your Honda.
wjsj69 thanks for the good luck wishes!
What is happening is why this is the best AWD system really you can get without going to two individual motors at the rear.
I would wager that the AWD system in the KL Cherokee is better because it has a low range.
@@MichaelMiller-rg6or too bad the rest of the jeep is a pos.
Very informative video loved it. You mentioned the CVT it seems to be a weak link in the newer Subaru’s, .
I have a 2015 Forester XT with Ko2 and a dyno tune. Love the car, but it's bothering me hearing about all the horror stories of the cvt breaking, even with light duty off roading. I'm approaching 85k miles and most likely gonna put my car up for sale. I was considering a 4 runner or gx 460, but the issue is i spend 90% of my driving on the freeway, and 10% offroading to get to the trailheads or campsites. Also, our freeways in Arizona are mountainous and curvy, which my forester eats up like no problem. Would you say the passport handles similar to the forester? How does acceleration compare?
alanpikku Hey! I’m actually vacationing in Sedona Arizona right now! Your speed limits are crazy out here! 75mph! So... I’m in the same boat. I drive 90-95% on the road. I used to drive a 2008 TRD FJ cruiser and I did not like driving it. MPG’s sucked, there’s a steering deadzone, it floated around. Nothing has changed with Toyota trucks yet. I drove a GMC 2500 HD work truck and that thing handled waaaaaaay better.
So, when I switched to the Passport, the first thing I noticed is that it’s a heavier vehicle. it’s not as agile. However, I felt that My 2015 Forester XT was top heavy (unlike the outback and crosstrek), So when pushed, it didn’t seem to hold a sharp turn well. On The other hand, the Passport having a wide wheel base, never feels like it’s going to tip over, even after the 2 inch lift. The trade off when switching to the Passport is “agility”, but everything else is better. It feels luxurious and comfortable. Has a quiet cabin. It also performs better, the Passport launches off the line like a bat out of hell (make sure traction control is off and sport mode engaged). My guess is the Passport would be 3 car lengths out before my FXT would start moving. 0-60 acceleration is 5.8 seconds in the Passport according to car and driver, and 6.2 in 2014-2016 FXT’s (then 6.8 in 2017-2018 FXT’s).
So, here’s some MPG stats. With how this passport is modded (all terrain tires, cargo carrier, and hitch cargo carrier), I got 18.9 mpg going from Phoenix to Sedona. 75% of the drive at 85mph and the other 25% at 60mph. When I drove from Sedona to the lower antelope canyon, I was going 60-70mph and got 24mpg. On the way back I got 23mpg. If you are looking for a more agile ride (but less capability), the Kia Telluride could be a good choice. It has nicer luxury, a traditional automatic transmission, but an average awd system and limited modding potential (the wheel wells are small, so you can’t fit tall tires). Or... wait until 2021 when toyota revamps their truck line. Or... check out a Jeep JL, I hear they handle much better onroad. Good luck with your decision.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks! I did more digging, and it seems like the VCM system in the Hondas have potential issues of washing out the oil due to excess fuel during shutoff. Have you looked into doing a bypass to prevent potential engine damage? I will probably test drive some cars this week to get a better feel. But yea, the floatiness you're describing would drive me crazy. Still sounds like the Passport is a great compromise.
alanpikku I did a lot of research on potential problems with the Honda J series V6’s before the purchase. The problems have been well documented and I haven’t heard of any recent issues, but adding an oil catch can or air oil separator is on the todo list.
Btw, I live in East Mesa in AZ. There are some pretty good trails here in the superstition mountains and payson.
Your Passport looks great!
Am not an off roader but, love that look of your Passport.
May I ask the brand of your 2” lift kit and your wheel & tires size set up. Please!!
Regards, Erick
Honda passport unavailable in Cambodia I want buy
Hi Everyham from the U.S.
@@rondail5675 Hi
That was informative.
Hi Jon, so, if the Passport is not lifted, which one would you recommend Forester/Outback (maybe Ascent) or the Honda Passport Sport trim? I would use the car 90% on highway. 10% would be sand to reach the beach or muddy/snovy roads in the forests. So, no hard off-road. I'm not keen of CVT but I would consider it if the Subaru performs better in the above conditions.
That’s a good question. Well I can tell you that the passport performs better in every situation except where more ground clearance is needed. Where I’d have to lower my tire pressure to 15 psi in my 2015 Forester XT to drive around in sand, I’m able to drive around at 40psi in the passport. Probably somewhat due to the larger tires it has (225mm vs. 265mm) but mainly because of the twin clutch rear that can simulate a limited slip and locker. Since you don’t hard off-road, the Passport all the way. If you end up going with a Subaru (because they get better MPG’s), get a 2.5 4 cylinder with the second generation CVT. They have a much better track record for reliability. Also, just know that if you load up a Subaru with a bunch of gear and put a cargo basket on top you’ll get worse MPG’s than a Passport with the same mods.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Thanks a lot for the quick reply. I'll go for Passport AWD, Sport trim....as the EX-L trim does not give too much, bigger touch screen, blind spot monitor...
János Böjthe the EX-L would be the recommended trim (by most automotive journalists) because of all those things you mentioned. It also have full leather... 😃 I like leather. The wide angle back up camera and apple car play screen with trail maps is awesome for off-road. I’m not sure if you have a back up camera on the sport trim.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring That's right, everybody recommends EX-L trim. Usually I travel with sport gear that's not really "leather friendly". As far as I know these days they cannot sell a new car without rear camera un US. I mean it's not allowed to sell it without rear camera.
János Böjthe oh yeah, I’ve heard about that law. I wonder where they put the rear back up screen. Welp! Going with the sport trim means you can save yourself $5k
Awesome video Honda has a winner here! 👍
Thank Mason! I think you're right!
Hey Jon, great video as always. I wonder what would've happened if you kept pressing the gas pedal. I have a feeling that eventually the i-VTM4 could've figured it out. Case in point, TFLC did take the Pilot to the Gold Mine Hill and it climbed the last stage slowly but surely. Even you have made it up the Kramer's Arch in your last video. Jumping on the breaks may be the normal reflex, but I think you should give more time to your Passport. :) Keep up the good work!
Heya Jazzme! Thanks for stopping by to leave a comment. So, it’s strange. If you were to ask me which obstacle was more difficult, I would say Kramer’s arch. Why do I say that? Well, 3 vehicles tried before me and weren’t able to make it up at all. With that said, Kramer’s arch can inflict major damage if driven carelessly. According to my spotters, I had a few inches of space on both left and right side. You’re absolutely right that I was pumping those brakes.
Now, the dirt hill obstacle wasn’t as difficult but I believe I did the right thing by letting off the gas after I felt roll back. Laying into the gas is why I am no longer driving a Subaru Forester XT. Doing that really stresses out the transmission and leads to overheating. I mean to do a video about how my CVT died.
As always, I appreciate your comment!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring You're probably right. Also, you seemed to have more traction on Kramer's arch than the dirt hill. The sandy surface made it looks like a lot more slippery. It is hard to judge the situation by only watching videos (however good quality they are), when you're not behind the wheel.
The durability of Subaru's CVT is definitely scary. The Forester XT was actually a strong contender when I wanted to replace my Rav4 v6... until I learned that they ditched the turbo. I'm glad now that I didn't went for a used XT, and waited a little bit more to get the Passport! :D
jazzme I run into people at trail and camping events and they tell me they’ve watched my videos and that my videos convinced them to buy a FXT. So, it hurts, I feel guilty. The only thing that lets me sleep at night is knowing that I’ve always been truthful in my videos. I show the good times, but also the bad times. It’s been 3 months since I traded in my FXT, and I still need to make the video of my CVT dying. It was just so hard to find the motivation, but I’ll make it soon.
jazzme by the way, I’m glad you got the Passport! It’s an amazing ride. 1 more week I’ll be taking this thing to Arizona. I’m sure I will enjoy the long drive and letting the Honda do most of the driving for me. Self driving mode is awesome!!!! 😎
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I'm sure you already watched this (th-cam.com/video/ZjX1-bLQZWA/w-d-xo.html) but this guy had similar issues with the CVT. I think for normal driving the CVT is OK, but it is not meant to handle off-road situations, even the mildest ones. Which is a shame as Subaru advertises its vehicles to be very capable. Hope you'll post your CVT dying video in the future. I think it would help people looking for information on their current or next ride, to better understand that type of transmission.
Hi John
I saw your video on the tallest tires that you can run. I’m actually looking for taller tires on a stock 20 inch rim. Now I’m just going for looks here not off road for my 2020 AWD Passport! I hate the gap between my stock tires and the wheel well. Are there tires that are tall enough and aggressive looking like AT that I can place without lifting the vehicle? Ok, so I’m willing to change wheels to 19 or even 18 to fill in my wheel well. Any suggestions ?
Thanks !
hey john whats the max weight of the roof ? im might try to put a folding tent ie 23zero
Tobat's Channel I couldn’t find anything for the Passport, but I found that the roof rails on a Honda Pilot is 165 lbs.
Looks good with the new lift. Love it!
Thank you!
What Nate’s shop name and location? Great vid!
Jim’s Auto Service
23385 Crest Forest Dr
Crestline, CA 92325
United States
(909) 338-1946
Call atleast a week in advance for an appointment, and I recommend making a camping trip out of it. The San Bernardino Mountains is a beautiful place (Crestline, Arrowhead and Big Bear). It’ll be worth it to travel to him.
That forester was struggling. No replacement for displacement.
My last 3 vehicles have been turbocharged, and I'm done with them. It's been a "pay to play" affair. The mid range torque is nice, but I had no idea a 3.5V6 with VTEC could be so much fun! That's one of the main reasons I fell in love with the passport, how quick it is (especially for it's size).
Interesting spacer. How it’s crescent shaped. Why’d ya swap from a Subaru to a Honda?
Haha! Yes! Not the ideal lift kit. I think a solid strut spacer would work best.
Aww man, well, the CVT went out in the 2015 FXT. When I got it back I thought of the long term. But!!! That’s not the main reason I went to another vehicle. I’m very particular and I had a big list of needs and wants. I wasn’t planning on purchasing another car, but one day I was bored and checked out a Toyota Tacoma. A lot of people drive them and use them as overlanding vehicles, but... I didn’t fit in the thing. The cabin is so small. Then I checked out a 4 runner. I really liked the 4 runner, but knowing the new model is going to be released next year and knowing that I’d get 10-15 mpg (with my driving style) I wasn’t interested. And then.... the Honda dealership was right next door, and in the distance, I saw what looked like the new Honda Passport. I took the thing for a test drive and was impressed. I couldn’t believe a vehicle this large could be this quick. It was just so smooth, refined and luxurious for something $37K. Try checking out a 2019 RAV4 adventure and it’s $35,500 price tag. These two cars aren’t nearly close. I’ve been looking at The new RAV4 since my girlfriend wants one, and I can’t believe these two vehicles are similarly priced. The Honda is easily $10,000 more valuable.
Whew, that’s a long winded answer isn’t it? So to make sure I answer you. I bought the Honda Passport because I fell in love with it, not because I felt I needed to ditch the FXT because the CVT went bad.
Atleast you changed the 19 inch rims
They were 20”, hehe! I hated those things!
Going with CVTs was the worse decision for Subaru. They've lost so much of the character of the car and diluted the driving experience for minimal fuel savings. They should go the route of Ford and Germans and bring 8 or 9 speed autos and I suspect they'd do it if they had the money. Their engines are far more efficient now and the CVT just isn't necessary.
My Honda has a German 9 speed, and the 2022 Nissan Pathfinder (the majority share holder of Jatco, largest manufacturer of CVTs) will be going with the same German 9 speed. I guarantee a Subaru would be more efficient with a ZF9. I cruise the highways at 1k RPMs
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I've owned an outback 3.6 (2016) and multiple subarus. I now have TRD 4Runner 2018 and it shocked me to hear the relatively good MPGs. I'm seriously considering a trade for a Passport though given the driving experience, the sweet drivetrain. great video though
Good info and testing on the Pilot against Subaru's (what it's main competitors are IMO, Outback & Xterra owner) also cool to see you mention my buddy @Patrick Rich. I want to tell my Dad to get the Passport over the Pilot or Subaru's.
Thanks Garrett Bentley! I have the Passport and researched everything about it before my purchase. I previously owned a Subaru Forester XT and before that a 2010 WRX. The Passport is awesome! But.... in the next 2 years there’s going to be a lot more options with the new 4Runner and Bronco. Then give it another 5 years and there will be a lot more changes. For now, I’ll enjoy this Honda.
You could wash before disamble all suspension parts
I dont like the idea of “metal + mud + metal”
I prefer “metal + metal”
P E, that wasn’t an issue. We did not stuff mud between everything before we retightened.
Hello, There is the myth that the lifting kit says it puts pressure on the car springs, and it would not be so indicated. I have a 2011 Honda CR-V and I want to increase its ground clearance. There are not too many options, but the price of a lifting kit is the same as the four springs. Which would be the best option!
Dumi Razvan I’m not familiar with how CRV’s are lifted, but my guess it will use spacer lift. This should not compress the spring, but again, I’m not familiar with how a CRV is lifted. I’m also not an expert on lift kits, but I can share what I know. I’m familiar with how my Honda Passport is lifted. My lift kit consists of 4 spacers and front way bar end link replacements.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring But if you had to choose between a set of lifting springs and a lifting kit, which is the best option! Both prices are in the same area, 300-350 €
Dumi Razvan lifting kit for sure. Lifting springs take away wheel articulation.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring You are the first person who tells me to go on the ascension kit and not on the springs . Most of them recommended the second one!
@@dumirazvan8741 That's the perfect example of me not being familiar with Honda CRV's. Before my Honda Passport I drove 2 Subaru's, and in the Subaru world lifting springs will decrease wheel travel (bad for offroad) and strut spacers are a better option. I'm not sure what's better for a CRV.
Looks much better lifted!
Thank you sir!!! Big high five from The 🇺🇸 to 🇩🇪! Thanks for watching!
Amazing video very informative thanks a lot your ride is awsome !
Thank you dannyboy1984!!!
I love your videos John, thanks. Question: As an owner of a '19 Passport, will it break my warranty to add a lift kit (maybe just the 2 inch kit w/no wheel-well alterations)?
Coach Aub the lift kit should void your suspension components, but I had a friend that was able to get his axles covered under warranty at 74k miles. I don’t know how he did it, it just varies from dealership to dealership.
Hey John, did you have to install rear adjustable camber balljoint on your lift? If no, was the alignment within spec?
Kao vue, yes, the alignment was within spec performed by the Honda Dealership. One thing to mention is that I carry 100 lbs of gear on my roof and another 100 lbs under the cargo floor. I noticed a bit of rear sag, which means the extra weight may help keep my Passport within spec.
nice, was waiting for this
Im glad I could deliver!
Grand Cherokee V8 Quadra drive II a little lift and 33” tires are good enough for me. It is a good street compromise and off road compromise although a little small on the inside for my tastes. I do like the Honda, maybe for the wifey! Also I think more off-road aggressive tires would help too.
Where is that shop located?
Chase Dyer
23385 Crest Forest Dr
Crestline, CA 92325
United States
Great video, just caught it. Have 2 Subaru’s been shopping for a Passport or a Ridgeline. Thoughts on making the switch?
Yah Yah I had two Subaru’s prior to my Passport. The Passport is a totally different vehicle, It’s more truck like. That’s what Honda intended it to be, a light truck, but let’s be honest, it’s also nothing like a body on frame truck. I use to drive a FJ cruiser. So I like to describe my passport as “my 2010 WRX and my 2008 FJ cruiser had a baby”.
If you purchase a passport, get it lifted, that will put it in a great place. Still handles on-road great!
Yah Yah
*0-60*
WRX: 4.7
Passport: 5.8
FJ cruiser: 7.8
*Crawl ratio*
WRX: 12:1
Passport: 20:1
FJ cruiser: 36:1
Seriously.... the numbers don’t lie 🤣
CVT is limiting the subaru..
Evol M3 yeah, it’s not the ideal transmission. I guess it could be worse, like the dual clutch transmission put in some Kia and Hyundai crossovers.
I'm assuming your socal local? I just purchased a land cruiser 200 series, I'd be down to wheel sometime with you.
Manual do lot better job off road.
I really like the way it looks with a lift! What wheels / tires are you using?
Jared McKneely thanks! I’m running KMC 820 grenade wheels 18”x8” and 265/65R18 Cooper Discovery AT3 4S tires
@@JonDZ_Adventuring what offset are the wheels? Thanks.
Sor Her, 38mm offset
I got the new Forester in March, *because Subaru is giving us cars 2 years after you* and then *not even all* .
Hey John Deasy, you catch some mad footage with that Honda. Best explanation of Honda's torque vectoring rear differential system. I agree that it, In practice, is truly magical. Hope I can replicate your success with my 2019 Ridgeline Sport.
The passport balance is the way to go
What tires and rims do you have on there?
Dustin Foster in this video, I have 265/65R18 Cooper Discovery AT3 4S on KMC XD 820 Grenades.
I know run 255/70R18 Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws
@@JonDZ_Adventuring awesome thank you. After watching your videos I really want to add a lift to mine.
How would I go about getting a set up like this for a 2017 pathfinder
Jamel Keeling I had a tough time searching for a lift kit for a 2017 pathfinder, but I think I found something! I show that the 4th generation pathfinder goes from 2013 to present. According to this item, it might be compatible with your 2017 Pathfinder. I’d just reach out to them and confirm to be safe.
www.ebay.com/itm/FITS-PATHFINDER-2005-2015-LIFT-KIT-2-5-1-5-POLY-COIL-STRUT-SPACERS-R-4WD-USA/191775082304?hash=item2ca6af8740%3Ag%3A9ToAAOSwAKxWWLRh&fits=Year%3A2013%7CModel%3APathfinder%7CMake%3ANissan
www.ebay.com/itm/FITS-PATHFINDER-2005-2015-LIFT-KIT-2-5-1-5-POLY-COIL-STRUT-SPACERS-R-4WD-USA/191775082304?hash=item2ca6af8740%3Ag%3A9ToAAOSwAKxWWLRh&fits=Year%3A2013%7CModel%3APathfinder%7CMake%3ANissan
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks man, just saw this
What is the last car?? It is much better than passport and outback.
It’s better than itself? That’s a 1999 Honda Passport.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Oh! it's '99 passport!!
Burkhan 😉. Totally different vehicles. The old passports are actually Isuzu Rodeo’s rebadged Honda’s. They were also rebadged Holden Passports in Australia I believe.
John, was is the jsport 1.5 inch lift and then bigger tires equaling 2 inch lift?
Jack Allen this is actually a 2 inch Traxda lift kit (front and back) and 2 inch taller tires. Total lift is 3 inches. The lift kid consists of a 2 inch front strut spacers and 1 inch rear spacers (the rear lifts at a 2:1 ratio) and front sway bar endlinks.
Traxda is working on a 3.5 inch lift kit. It’s a bit more complicated and I don’t have all the details, but it will consists of a sub drop, high lift rear control arms, and spacers. At that point, I think I’ll mount 33’s.
Jack Allen, also note to fit my 32’s I had to cut out a 5” wide by 4” tall rectangle out of the rear side of the front wheel wells. The pieces were really thin in thickness, maybe 1/8” or 1/16”. I did some hammering for good measure. No rub, even at full suspension compression.
With no cutting, you can fit 31’s with slight rub.
That is what Honda is "supposed" to be about - no BS reliable vehicle that works for what it is designed and advertised to do ;)
It also looks great.
I wish there was a version of Passport max 1.85m wide and offered on Japanese market. For now it is very likely I will just inherit brother in law`s Jeep Gr Cherokee Laredo. I am not sure if it has LSD in the rear, I might upgrade that when needed for hiking and hunting when time comes.
Great video. Interesting stuff. Good luck.
So, where did you get your lift kit?
Delivers92130 good question! I purchased it online from Traxda for $377. The price for professional installation should be between $400-$800. This kit is for the Ridgeline and the Pilot, but someone figured out it’s also compatible with the Passport.
Jsport USA is also another company that should be offering a lift specific to the Honda Passport. I own a skid plate from them and their quality is top notch!
traxda.com/honda-lift-and-leveling-kits/2017-honda-ridgeline-awd-2x4-4x4-2-front-2-rear-lift-kit-202040.html
@@JonDZ_AdventuringThank you! I knew you would have a source...after-market pilot gear is hard to find.
Hey! love your videos, I am looking at getting a comfortable on road vehicle that can do some light off roading. So far I have narrowed down my look to a 19' Forester sport, Honda Passport or Ridgeline. What are your thoughts and recommendations?
That’s a good question and I believe it basically comes down to money. A 2019 Subaru Forester can be had for as low as $25K. A Honda Passport/Ridgeline AWD will start at $33K.
The Forester comes with 8.7 inches of ground clearance but the CVT can struggle going up steep hills and obstacles.
The Passport and Ridgeline have less ground clearance at 8.1 inches and worse approach and break-over angles so that is their weakness.
Comparing the passport to the Ridgeline, besides the obvious differences (truck vs. suv) the Passport has a 20.4:1 crawl ratio and the Ridgeline only has a 14.3:1 crawl ratio. That’s why the Passport is Honda’s most capable offroader.
Good luck on your choice! Let me know if you have any specific questions.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring You may want to take MPG into consideration too, as the Forester is going to get unbelieveable mpg. Easily the Passport is more capable, but again the ground clearance/depart approach angles limit it.
@@kartboarder22g17 with these mods, it's better than my Forester. everything except the breakover angle (which isn't much different after the lift), MPG's, ground clearance, offroad angles. We're **talking** my Modified FXT vs. my modified Passport. You also have to take into consideration tire size and height. The bigger the tires, the flatter the world gets. Running over ruts is so much easier. I had 29.0 inch tires on the Forester 235mm wide. The Passport has 31.6 inch tires 265mm wide.
@@kartboarder22g17 my 2 inch lifted FXT with 29 inche tires had 9 inches at the front skid plate and 9.5 inches at the rear differential. The Honda Passport **with 31.6 inch tires and a 2 inch lift, has 10 inches at the front skid plate and 11.5 inches at the rear differential ( there's a pointy thing that sticks out of the frame, if it isn't there it's 12.5 inches at the rear differential).
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Agreed its a pretty impressive vehicle, plus it has more storage within too, right which comes in handy camping. If you have the money its definetly the better way to go.
did you add lift spacers?
Evol M3 i lifted the passport by using strut spacers and front sway bar end links. Really simple kit and only $377.
Awesome!... great looking rig, very capable too... 👊🏼
thanks Brudda! I hope to be able to see you again one day to get a proper rig walk around of your one of a kinda Subie!
What happen was the v-tech just kicked in yo!
Anthony Young that it did
Did you see Honda's attempt at an Overland package? 1.5" front lift and 0.75" rear. www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/2019/05/16/automotive-minute-nissan-and-honda-debut-new.html?ana=yahoo&yptr=yahoo
Alex, I did. Honda’s adventure vehicle was actually made by the company Jsport. They made the skid plate that I bought on the 3rd day of ownership.
They are the only ones making offroad equipment for the Honda Ridgeline, Pilot, Passport that I’m aware of.
The concept vehicle won’t be for everyone. I think the best way to appreciate this concept “adventure package” is to take a close look at each component separately. Starting with the roof, you’ll see a Front runner style cargo platform. That’s absolutely incredible there’s already one available!!!!!! It typically takes years for aftermarket parts to become available. How about the rear bumper tire carrier? It looks like minimal obstruction to the rear window.
To be honest. I’m not a fan of the front brush bar. I value all my ground clearance and approach angle, BUT... it looks like it can be easily modified to accommodate my “already cut” bumper.
If you ask me... IM JUST STOKED the Passport already has quality after market support!!!! Thank you Jsport!!!!!
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Did you install the skid plate yourself? How is it attached?
Kevin Sullivan yes, I did the install myself. Pretty easy to do. There’s two large bolts that you unscrew at one of the crossmembers and four large bolts that connect at the radiator support beam. It’s just a matter of unscrewing, inserting the skid plate and then re-screwing.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Good to know! Thanks
@@JonDZ_Adventuring In terms of fitting a full-size spare in this thing, are most opting for a roof cargo carrier? Or just throwing it in the back? Really wish the wheel storage well under the cargo area would fit a full size spare.
I think those trails would definitely be more user friendly with a low range!
I luv my ‘08 Liberty with factory skid plates but it definitely needs a lift!
Quikgt, you can never have too little ground clearance! Well... unless your a race or rally car, then too much would be bad 🤣.
It’s funny you mention low range! So interestingly enough, this Passport has the same transmission and has the same final drive as the Jeep renegade and Compass Trailhawk models. My first gear is the same as the 4 Low button in those mini jeeps.
What tires and what size tires did you have to get the 1 inch lift before you put the 2 inch lift kit?
Sorry, but I don’t think I understand the question, but I’ll try to answer.
Before this 2 inch lift, I cut some metal out of the wheel well and mounted 265/65R18 Cooper discovery AT3 4S tires. Even with the 2 inch lift, these tires would have rubbed. Mounting these tires is only possible by cutting out a 5” wide by 4” tall rectangle out of the rear section of the front wheel wells.
What lift kit is this?
Traxda 2inch lift kit (front and rear) for a 2017+ Honda Ridgeline/Pilot. The front is lifted at a 1:1 ratio, the rear lifts at a 2:1 ratio.
traxda.com/honda-lift-and-leveling-kits/2017-honda-ridgeline-awd-2x4-4x4-2-front-2-rear-lift-kit-202040.html
Is xmode activated on the red forester?
That's a good question, if I remember correctly he used it at first and then he tried turning it off, using S#, manual mode, 1st gear ratio. I can tell you, having owned a 2015 Forester XT, once a wheel gets in the air **during a hill climb**, power stops going to the wheels. Choosing the right line and using enough momentum will be key.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks for the answer. I've bought a forester a few months ago and now i just read bad things about the cvt. I have also been in a situation in which the power was not transferred, and now I do not want to drive off-road.
@@DaHerrKulzer check out my latest video. I finally got around to making a video about the CVT (I use to own a 2015 Forester XT). I have have some good info on how you can prolong the life of the CVT and it's limits offroad.
th-cam.com/video/AVptZ1bfwfs/w-d-xo.html
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I have already seen the video. Very good content. I was with my forester in the situation that I drove down a slope, and in front of me was a stone that I did not see. My car stuck to the stone, and I could not go back because of the cvt. Now a part of my bottom is destroyed. Meanwhile, I hate that cvt. Sorry for my bad english, I am from Germany :)
@@DaHerrKulzer no need to apologise. I too have been in that situation. I was stuck going uphill and there was a rock in front of me and a rock behind me. I was wedged.
If I was by myself then I would have been stuck. Luckily I had friends to help push my Forester XT free.
Is the passport more capable than the subaru outback?
Jon 310 yes, it is. It’s more of like a unibody truck, and that’s what Honda calls it “a light truck”. It’s very much a different vehicle. One thing to point out is that Passport AWD models have 8.1 inches of minimum clearance and all Modern Subaru’s all have 8.7 of minimum clearance. There are situations where those 0.6 inches can make a difference, especially since the Outback has a shorter whew base.
Once lifted with taller tires, the Passport really comes into its own. I now have 11 inches of minimum clearance (not counting rear lower control arms - 9 inches at lowest point), with 15 inches of max clearance.
Unfortunately, What limits the modern Outback the most is the CVT. But you’ll be surprised at how many places a CVT can still take you.
Check out this Instagram clip and watch both video clips. Btw, This was before my Passport was lifted, but I did have 2 inch taller tires giving the passport 9.1 inches of clearance.
instagram.com/p/BwPLMv-Hi3F/?igshid=a6hums1v4kz5
Much cheaper replacing brake pads than clutch packs in those limit life differentials. The more you abuse that vehicle the more issues, and worn those clutch packs out...big bill.
The rear differential in the passport is electronically controlled. The RDU (rear drive unit) is $800, but it designed to last for a very very long time. It’s not a standard LSD that dies after 40k miles. Actually, I already have 56K miles on the passport, nothing has had to be replaced besides fluids from regular maintenance (I go off the severe duty schedule btw).
I'm only halfway through the video but I can't help myself: *the Subaru CVT sucks* 👎
It sucks in the dry, it sucks in the wet, it sucks in the sand as evidenced here, it sucks in the snow.
The only place it sucks less is a straight line doing constant speed down an interstate highway.
Your Honda is doing pretty well on the other hand, nice! Ok time to watch the rest. 😊
#SaveTheManuals
Finished watching, the Honda did very well! Very impressed. 👍👍
#SaveTheManuals I’m starting to sound like a broken record (If you read my other comments). I feel like an idiot for supporting a Subaru CVT. I love love the brand, but it breaks my heart to see people go through this shit (having a really expensive part, break on them). Let’s see how many more years Subaru will continue to run the CVT. Subaru should really start offering their premium vehicles with more robust transmissions. Everything that doesn’t come with a 2.5L NA engine should not have a CVT.
#SaveTheManuals I’m impressed too! 😃
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Couldn't agree more. I'm not arguing for every Subaru to be MT, but at least put a capable AT in there that won't roll over and give up. So disappointing for so many LOYALE 😉 customers.
Great video Jon, thanks for fostering the conversation.
Agree completely. Was wanting an Outback when we got our Passport last month. The CVT just doesn't work for me.
"climbing up something much much more difficult"
hang on... is that a old school impreza in front of you, going up the same trail?
William Brack It’s a WRX on forester suspension and lifted with a steel tube front bumper and stick shift. Driven by a rally cross driver.
Hey I was wondering if I could get that lower control arm pry bar part number?
I’ll ask my buddy
He said he forgot who he bought it from
Does the Ridgeline have the same AWD system? Also do you think the Ridgeline could stand its own, although I know it does not have the ground clearance which is a major issue. Thank you!
T-Boomer Fishing yes, the Ridgeline has the same AWD system but a 6 speed transmission. The difference in crawl ratio is 14:1 vs. 20:1 which is a bit substantial, but... the Ridgeline will still be able to go many places. There’s also a 3.5 inch lift kit for it now. Check out @traxdausa on Instagram and Facebook.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring the 9-speed ratio makes the crawl ratio better?
T-Boomer Fishing its not how many gears the transmission has, it’s just geared more aggressive.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I wonder why they wouldn't gear the Ridgeline the same? Is there a benefit to having the lower ratio for the Ridgeline? Also, thank you for your videos and responses! They are awesome! I was almost sold on a Subaru but something felt off after driving them. I went and drove a Ridgeline after watching your videos and its amazing. I just don't want to give up the ability to do some fun off-road stuff.
T-Boomer Fishing if you haven’t pulled the trigger yet, wait. There’s a Rumor the Ridgeline will be getting a more aggressive crawl ratio. We just don’t know if it will get an actual low gear transfer case, the Honda 10 speed, or the ZF9 speed.
It almost looks like the front is higher than the rear after the lift. Is this so?
how does that affect your speedo and mpg?
CharlietoKind the tire in this video is 6.8% taller. If my speedo says 40mph, I’m really doing 42, if it says 80, I’m really doing 84.
A taller tire will affect gearing. It will lower crawl ratio, which means less MPG in stop and go traffic and more MPG cruising on the freeway. BUT, because the new tires have a more aggressive tread pattern and is made of a softer rubber compound there’s more friction and I lose MPG’s from that.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring How much mpg loss bro? Let’s get specific!
Why it cost u to lift it??
Parts cost $377 and labor cost $450. So total was $827
Awesome lift! 😀
really helpful information.
is this the Jsport lift kit?
No, this is the 2-inch Traxda lift kit. 2 inch front & 2 inch rear. It’s a strut spacer kit with front sway bar links. $377.
Note that the passport lifts at a 1:1 ratio in the front and 2:1 ratio in the rear. The rear spacers are 1 inch in height because of that. I have a Jsport front skid plate, and at the front skid plate I have 10.5 inches of clearance and 11.5 at the rear differential.
JonDZ Adventuring is
Who installed your lift kit?
I have a Traxda 3.5” lift kit now. Traxda installed it since I helped them with product testing.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring thanks Jon.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring Jon you made me trade my 2018 fozzy for a damn passport 🤣 i was wondering if you added trans cooler?
Do they make proper suspension lifts for the passport yet? Looks like you put on a spacer lift
09ThunderOne I can’t think of any crossover that has anything beyond a spacer or raised spring lift, especially in a vehicle 9 months old. A Unibody doesn’t lift like a body on frame vehicle, it’s less complicated (and cheaper too! Parts were $377).
JonDZ Adventuring spring lift meaning you replace the coils but not the shocks? Sorry I'm used to body on frame so usually coil overs is the answer
Who knew you could lift a Passport?
Well, first of all, Who Knew the Honda iVTM4/2016+ SHAWD are one of the best AWD systems on the market. These systems have been flying under the radar for 3 years. Before I even thought about purchasing a Passport, I checked the Honda Ridgeline and Pilot to make sure lift kits available. I knew it would be easier to run larger tires compared to my old Subaru too. The limitation with the Subaru is clearance at the spring perch.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring I'd argue that Mitsubishi's S-AWC can do the same, as could Audi's quattro system. Yours is impressive though I will say...👍🏽
Sonny Mercado I’m familiar with those systems. I looked at them all. The reason I purchased this Honda Passport is because the pilot and ridgeline really stood out when being tested on youtube. TFL-C (the fast lane car) had fantastic results when testing these vehicles. Car question had similar results. Driving sports TV also showed impressive capabilities. I have not seen the other brands test as well.
A system that I’m hearing a lot of is KIA’s Htrac system in the Telluride, and they have the gearing to back it up. I know it can be hard to believe that a Honda and possibly a Kia could have the two most capable AWD systems on the market. I’m kinda still shocked myself.
I shouldn’t have said “iVTM4 and SH-AWD” system is the “best”, so I’ll edit my previous comment to “one of the best”. I considered wording that differently, but I wanted to make sure I got my opinion across.
JonDZ Adventuring It’s all good man, that’s your opinion and you are backing it up by wheeling your truck, can’t argue that!!!
th-cam.com/video/f3fTf5n_MWQ/w-d-xo.html
Yeah but what you pay to get a lift get professionally installed is more or equal to The cost of the tools, and you get to keep the tools for the next job. What's it cost to get a lift kit installed, $100 a wheel conservatively? Harbor freight charges like $150 for a nice steel jack, $100 for a trans jack, $20 for a pry bar. There's even money left over for a small compressor and impact gun.
Nice CUV build!
Thanks
not getting that kit. will go with JAS
paulg35c not familiar with JAS
Appologies Jsport
jsportusa.com/
paulg35c it’s your money. That’s mind boggling though. I’m genuinely curious, Why would you settle for a 1.5 inch lift kit? Also, why would you want to spend 3x the money for aluminum? The Passport isn’t a light vehicle. Even lighter Subaru’s weighting 3500 lbs. use real steel.
JonDZ Adventuring you raise good point . I have been in fence with 1.5 and 2in. I had looked at your kit as well and was just bit concerned as missing bolts. I move from SoCal to Washington for work and don’t have access to shops like I use to. So it would be diy myself with my tools . I’m very hands on with my cars but when comes to suspension just more cautious. How is your holding up ?
Just FYI Honda awd works amazing in snow
paulg35c their products are questionable. The safari bumper is basically a snow plow, reducing ground clearance. Their rock sliders extrude out at the bottom, which will lead to getting hung up on rocks.
Their skid plate did not hold up. I’m glad they made one to protect my vehicle, but it had a fatal design flaw. The front of the skid plate is secured via really small M6 bolts. Those bolts are designed to hold a plastic splash guard, not a 30 lb. aluminum skid plate! Where was the R&D??? I had to make my own modifications to it to get it work. The company NoLo designs has listened to the community and has made a skid plate that will actually hold up.
I wish Jsport the best. Companies can change. I have given them recommendations about products I think the offroad community would want. I’m out here living this lifestyle, if they could listen to feedback they could probably turn things around. But let’s be honest... their R&D is lacking. Traxda has come up with an axle relocation kit to fit 32.1” inch diameter tires. They offer a 3.5 inch lift kit. Nolo designs has made a rear differential skid plate and gas tank skid plate.
Blazer engineer Larry Milhalko says in the TFL review the RS has Twin Clutch AWD system that sends up to 60% of torque to the rear and also torque vectors(100%) the differential left and right. TFLcar
Norm T do you have the video link? I can’t find any info or press release about the blazer premium AWD system other than the system has a twin clutch rear. Automotive journalist have called out Chevy about not being forthcoming with info about the twin clutch awd system. One saying that they were told the blazer can send up to 85% of wheel torque to an outside rear wheel but no info on how much could go to the rear. A video link would be appreciated.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring GM doesnt have to over market their Twin Clutch AWD with torque vectoring as it does the job and with no modes to enter or traction control to shut off.
The GM Emgineer was a TFL video during the release of the new Blazer.
Here is a three roller test of Twin Clutch on a XT5.
th-cam.com/video/E9lK3BvIHEg/w-d-xo.html
@@JonDZ_AdventuringAnother article about the Envision stating that the MDX had to be pushed off a set of flat rollers, not inclined, when just the front wheel was on the ground.
www.extremetech.com/extreme/244191-buick-joins-torque-vectoring-goes-snow-wheel-drive-show
Norm T first of all, thank you giving me a reason to do a little research on the AWD system in the chevy. It’s not Chevy’s a AWD system, it’s made by GKN. They supply rear diff twin clutch systems to GM, Ford, Range Rover, and Volvo among others.
As you might know, TFL does this test called “Gold Mine Hill”. *There’s a big dip on one side that will get one wheel in the air*. A GKN dual clutch equipped vehicle attempted this test, the brand new Ford Expedition. I think you would agree, this vehicle would be perceived to be more off-road capable than the Camaro-cross... I mean... Blazer. Welp, it didn’t make it up. You also might know that the Honda Pilot and Ridgeline made it up in impressive fashion, and those vehicles joined the “short list” of vehicles that have completed this test. I also need to point out the Volvo XC90 and XC60 has made it up and those two vehicles ARE equipped with the GKN dual clutch rear.
So will a Blazer make it up Gold Mine hill? Well, won’t know unless GM tries. But You have to keep in mind that the Blazer is an on-road crossover, it only has 7.5 inches of ground clearance (although Honda wasn’t afraid to give TFL their Honda Pilot with only 7.3 inches). *The Ford Edge is the Blazers main competitor* and Ford has not supplied TFL with a Ford Edge (not GKN dual clutch rear equipped) for off-road testing either. *Again, they are on-road crossovers*.
By the way, about those two links you provided: First, the roller test is useless unless other vehicles are tested on the same roller test. Second, that 2017 article about the Buick Enclave was compared against a “decade” old Acura. 😐. Welp, I guess we both learned something. But there was one thing I learned before I purchased my Honda Passport. Honda’s twin clutch *rear diff* is BADASS. *edits in bold*
@@JonDZ_Adventuring
I never said it was Chevy or a GM diff I know GKN does the Evoque and Focus RS. Each manufacturer programs then differently.
The 3-roller is a good test for steering wheel straight metric and one test where a 2016 Acura MDX SH-AWD(because the 2016 RDX sucks compared to the Buick Envision) can not compete with GM Twin Clutch. It is an extreme test and not many can pass and still provide +30 mpg. Something Honda/Acura AWD systems come up short on.
The new Blazer RS handles as well as the Alfa Rmoeo Stelvio Ti 2.0T in Motor Trend figure-eight test. Which is saying allot. Honda and Acura have always been average in handling and poor in braking performance. Probably why Motor Trend likes the Blazer RS over the Passport.
2016 Envision 2.0T with torque vectoring AWD on the rollers vs 2016 Acura RDX(CR-V-based AWD). Video is embedded in the article.
www.gminsidenews.com/articles/47218-2/
2018 Buick Regal TourX 2.0T with torque vectoring AWD vs 2018 Volvo V60 on the rollers:
m.facebook.com/groups/316013335874394?view=permalink&id=367827414026319&_rdr
Buick Regal Sportback 2.0T with torque vectoring AWD vs Audi A5 Quattro on the rollers:
th-cam.com/video/YtoTCbHpNoM/w-d-xo.html
The passport is like the new pilot its look like a pilot 2015 the new pilot 2019 look like a mini van the passport look like a jeep or an explorer but the VSA is probably not good for offroad
Explorer looks better
Dude .. a toyota 4runner TRD would be laughing at the obstacles you are dealing with ..
There was a stock Tacoma TRD pro that I didn’t include in the video. He was spinning tires, the 1999 Passport did better than him, more articulation. But yeah.... of course a dedicated off-roader would do better. That’s like saying my Passport would be laughing at a 4Runner TRD pro on the street and 0-60mph.
A 4Runner TRD pro would do this obstacle, but not sure if it would be laughing at it.
instagram.com/p/BwPLMv-Hi3F/?igshid=5jt2iuf92w6t
JonDZ Adventuring i drove a 4runner TRD a while back (2019 model) and the car is pretty amazing in rock climbing and light off roading , low gears definitely handles most of the stuff but if you get stuck the crawl system is even better in figuring out terrains ..
But i would agree the passport is probably much faster on road and better in terms of features and tech ..
I just rode with a 100 series Land Cruiser (in the form of a Lexus LX 470) yesterday. That thing is amazing! Has IFS but that thing is a tank! Video will be released soon, and ... for the most part, it’s what you’d expect. I’m going to make the title of the video. “2019 Honda Passport Vs. 100 series LandCruiser, you’ll be surprised at the results (JK)”. Haha! Click bait titles simply get attention, but the JK will be at the end of the video title. 😂
JonDZ Adventuring lol .. u provide good content keep up the good work and i hope your channel grow much bigger 👍🏻
Subaru cvt is a joke. Too bad as it ruins a good car.
Team CR-V sorry passport!
Hillbilly engineering...... leaving a space between the two lift plates will not allow the fastener to stay tightened. There should be a spacer welded in between the two plates... JUNK !!!!
Lmaoooo
Camera footage is horrible you need to stop recording in the shade or shadow of the vehicles go on the side where the sun is shining you will see the tires rotating a lot easier and the vehicle a lot easier
Mikey Smith / Horizontally Thanks for the feedback! Don’t fall do the edge of the world 🤣 and Keep up the great work and epic camera angles in your videos. You’re a Star 🤩.
@@JonDZ_Adventuring why do you presume there's an edge
Mikey Smith / Horizontally Appozed whoa whoa whoa! I never said there was. That’s like saying I’m assuming your life is hard because I said, “take it easy”.