Toyota Tundra OUTRAGE: A Technical Explanation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- Toyota gave a technical explanation for the Tundra engine failures. In this video we attempt to explain what toyota means by 'debris left in the Tundra engines'
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) released an official report on the Tundra/LX600 Toyota/Lexus Twin Turbo V6 (V35A) engine failures.
#lexusgx550
#toyotatundra
#lexusls500
#lexuslx600
#toyotasequoia
#toyotatwinturbov6engine
#toyotatundraenginerecall
#landcruiser300
#nhtsa
#toyota
#lexusgx460
#kaizen
#akiotoyoda
#apology
Perhaps I can add a bit of insight into what might be going on with Toyota. I am in aerospace manufacturing but have industry insight into some automotive.
Aerospace holds first and foremost to quality of machining. These parts are going into assemblies that are in up in the sky ie NO room for failure. Any failure of component could be catastrophic.
Automotive is quality to some extent but COST above and beyond. All those touch screens instead of physical buttons? Cost. Manufacturers would argue over half a cent cost on this button vs that.
How does this apply here?
Yes, the machining is done by robotics. This is not an error in the robot, this is most likely due to changing the program when the engine is now used in much higher volume than with LS.
Changes how?
This can be many things. It could be as simple as before they changed cutting inserts after every 5 engines milled/bored/honed. Now to save PENNIES they are running the same inserts for 6 engines. Whatever system Toyota was using to clear chips, a flush of some sort probably, was optimized for the amount of debris those inserts made after at most 5 engines. Now at engine 6 the inserts are much more worn and the chips for that engine have changed in a way that the programmed flush does not clear all FOD. To further reduce costs Toyota might have reduced the number of inspection checks or even removed them completely. "All engines were 'clean' before, why not now?" Changing the process slightly can have MASSIVE differences in machining....
I believe in the end this issue is simply Toyota 'optimizing' the production line TOO much and it has resulted in engines getting out with FOD still inside. I do not think this is a massive engineering failure but a dollars and cents failure that had unfortunately resulted in loss of reputation that will be FAR harder to get back.
To be clear, I am not a Toyota owner, worker, ect. Purely my speculation from being in a similar industry.
Six Sigma…
A very plausible and logical theory. Thank you for sharing your experiences 🙏 ❤️
@cbrn_monkey5621 kaizen, six sigma and lean manufacturing to be exact.
Another self proclaimed expert here. Have you even assemble or rebuilt an engine before? Oh boy...
more like cutting corners rather than "optimizing"
Still waiting 6 months to get my 2nd key. How long do we think it will take to get a new engine?
If you left the dealership without a second key, your unlikely to receive another. For $700, they will make you a second key. Never take someone's word. I always refuse to sign any final paperwork until they have made me a second key or fob.
Yup I’m a finance manager at a dealership, Toyota is not responsible. That’ll be your sales guy !
@@Tundra24 took us 18months to get the 2nd FOB...but threw in a free oil change.
You can contact Toyota directly or have your dealer do it and just tell them you need the second key and make up a reason. I did that after 4 months of waiting and they immediately sent my key to the dealer to have programmed within a week. Maybe I got lucky but i only did this after seeing someone else doing it and it worked.
@@bobcook8576There is a sticker, on driver's side rear window, that says "to be removed only by consumer. Due to shortage (yada yada yada) a second key will be sent to you, etc, etc, etc."
It's not "the salesman's word" for anything, and you are not smarter for suggesting that.
I’m an engineer and without all the Toyota answers it comes down to the fact the bearing rides in those journals. There’s no space in there EXCEPT for the oil and the bearing. When metallic junk gets in there it’s simply going to cause wear in a space that no contact is actually supposed to happen. The design is supposed to be the bearing riding in the journal and oil is supposed to be between the surfaces of the bearing and the journal. When your oil breaks down wear accelerates. When there is metal in there the bearing will wear extremely fast
After a short time the wear will cause complete failure.
So change oil every 500 miles.
The camshaft’s on the top end use the same oil as the bottom end. They are not replacing the upper engine. No way only the lower bearing oil is getting contaminated with the upper cam bearings being spared.
That bearing material is also gonna go into the turbos…Toyota needs to replace the entire assembly and stop just changing shortblocks.
No oil goes to top end without getting filtered first. Only if debris is in the passages after the oil filter will the top end and turbo be impacted
Unless the filter gets clogged with debris and the bypass is activated. Though I don't have evidence that has happened. What I'd be more concerned with however is the pickup tube having been clogged with this debris then a dealer "just" swapping in a short block and carrying over the heads etc. @@falkfluegel5557
Many camshaft s don't have (bearings) they ride on the head itself mainly because it's not under enough load to wear excessively so no bearings , but if junk gets into thoose oil passages and stops oil flow to cams that would be catastrophic they should do the whole engine though and turbo as main bearing failure equals oil pressure loss and that will kill the whole engine in short order
Toyota is lying this is the same excuse Kia and hyndai. How did you get same trash in different manufacter Japan and Alabama
I would imagine that they use the same production process and they missed a cleanup step.
If the process is the same, it doesn't matter where the engine is made.
To me it was an oversight in their process. Machines and their programming are man made. Possibly new employees didn't do their job properly or were not trained correctly. Car manufactures don't do this to cut corners, especially Toyota since it is costing them big, but either way we can bet it won't happen again, unlike another well known brand.
Occam's razor goes out the friggin' window when I'm driving around in a 64K ticking time bomb. Toyota needs to step up to the plate and do right by their customers. Full engine replacements, free rental cars, suspension of payments under repair period and extended warranty effective the date of engine replacement.
Seems weird to call it “trash”. I think machining debris sounds a lot more accurate…
Yeah, got tired of hearing him overuse the word.
F.O.D is the correct term
I've posted my educated opinion elsewhere, but here's some additional foresight. Problem 1 with the debris 'explanation'; these engines have been failing in irregular numbers and rebuilt by dealers. Some owners are on Multiple engines already. There's a lot of room for finger-pointing for a dealer to be doing subpar work vs factory conditions, but the fact remains that even rebuilt engines have failed in the exact same way.
Problem 2, if the first model year that was scrutinized did have additional issues With debris, the first time it was started--at the factory--it was already damaged before ever going to the lot or in dealer hands. I can accept debris for one model year or even one production run. Three full model years is _highly_ suspicious.
The question remains on what was changed from the preliminary design principle to the variant in the Tundra, what loads the truck sees specific to its weight/payload, and what all that does with a lower build quality platform if its the transmission, supporting components, etc.
That’s why I changed my oil at 1K miles on a new engine to clean out the machining debris
I did the same around 850 miles. Always have done this with new cars, but I think Toyota has a design flaw and this “debris” is just a cover story. Time will tell once people start taking apart their own engines. Very disappointed as a 30 year Toyota owner.
@@jimmyg6215 hey was thinking of changing mine do you think 500 is to early?
@@Flash....Gordon..42 nope I would do it now. Wish I changed mine at 50 miles ☺️
@@jimmyg6215 you didnt watch the video huh?
My wife used to give me so much crap because I changed the oil and filter on all of our new cars and trucks after 100 miles….”overkill, a complete waste of money, you’re an idiot”. Yea, yea, yea……
It’s like a differential gearbox. The bigger the torque or wheel diameter size, the bigger the physical ring gears are needed. No way around it even if it’s soaked in 90w oil. Imagine putting a tundra differential for a semi truck, it’s not going to last.
Tundra with 600 lbs/ft torque has reached the physical limitations of the 3.5 v6. High torque needs more engine displacement to distribute those torque wear evenly throughout those bearing surfaces. Turbos high pressure fuel/air mixture will dilute engine oil.
Turbo works for semi because semi has three critical things
1) diesel (natural lubricant)
2) huge displacement (for more metal wear surface)
2) 15w-40 engine oil for ultimate wear protection
As an engine builder I would like to see more bearing clearance to allow small debris to flush through rather than just embed in the soft bearing material. Perfect cleaning would be nice but not always obtainable also I am not comfortable with these super lite weight oils providing a margin of safety. We might need a bit of old school tech to fix this problem. Wondering if they changed the bearing material to make the EPA happy.
Great point!
As an engine builder you should know that too much clearance is likely to cause oil pressure problems. And not knowing the size of the contamination, how much clearance would you recommend?
My memory tells me that one of the things that the soft bearing helped with was to all particles to be imbedded with out causing damage to the crank journal.
Metal in the engine used to mean all new engine, but in this case they wiill just give you a shortblock , F that.
A massive slap in the face when they raised MSRP's as much as they have and posted record profits in 2023. Absolutely inexcusable to sell someone a $65k truck, the engines blows 20k miles later, and they tell the dealer to tear the engine down in a service bay and have parts laying everywhere while Toyota snail mails a short block.
Looks like cholesterol buildup , and engine has a heart attack
Maybe it cancer from the metal debris,😂Lol
Thank you for the video. The voice of reason. I have a 23 tundra. Everything you explained makes perfect sense. I plan on keeping mine.
For this to be correct you have to believe the information being provided by Toyota is correct. This has been the news from Toyota within the past week. Exploding Tundra engines, Toyota caught lying on MPG for many vehicles, AND lying on SAFETY certifications. I have no faith in Toyota having the ability to tell the truth on just about anything relating to their vehicles. Toyota has NOT been replacing w/new engines, rather spending a boat load on labor to repair the "exploded" dual turbo engines - they are rebuilding them. How they move forward, access, and remediate this in the short term will be interesting.
Toyota likes to lie, Tomorrow you will be driving a Hydrogen powered truck, they keep saying BEVs are DEAD.😅
I'm glad that I bought the last V8 Tundra.
The 5.7L is a.million mile engine that's for sure 👌 ❤️
You really did our my mind at ease. I biught a 2024 Limited I force Max and love it. Its not on the recall list...yet. people need to remember this has affected 1 % of their truck/SUV sales.
You're gonna be OK. ❤️ Keep the stats in perspective. Fear solves nothing. ✌️
Same. I have a ‘22 1794 hybrid and zero issues so far at 24K miles. I know hybrids aren’t in the recall but It’s my belief that they eventually will be as it’s fundamentally the same engine, produced in the same plant. Still, I’m not worried. I bought an extended warranty and most likely, vehicles wouldn’t even need to be in warranty to be repaired under recall. Love mine so far.
Yours isn't in the recall list because if they were included, it would be a huge financial blow to their dealers. Toyota doesn't have a fix and their dealers would have thousands of Tundras they have on their floorplan but can't sell because they have open recalls on them.
Look this Recall sucks for all Tundra owners including myself. Maybe Toyota should up the oil weight in these motors to a 30WT . A 0w30 or 5w30 maybe what’s needed to protect these twin turbos .
well if Toyota's telling the truth.... metal shavings left in the engine won't care about 30w oil... that engine needs to be clean and deburred
I found a solution to this whole problem. Simply change the oil with synthetic and also replace the oil filter . Every time you drive it .
😆 🤣
Toyota is lying! So the trash just ruined the main bearings? No turbo bearings, no pistons lining ruined, no camshaft scoring? What I’m getting at all these motors ONLY have main bearings failing and that’s it! It’s not trash, it’s something else! Replacing a short block multiple times on some customers cars tells me it isn’t trash, it’s something else! Something that would need a redesign and Toyota doesn’t want to admit and go there! They will fix these as they implode until the warranty runs out! I see a class action lawsuit coming! Imagine if you owned a capstone or TRD Pro?? $74-80K
Depends on which oilway the trash was left in. If the trash was left in the number-1 main bearing oil passage then the trash will go to the number-1 bearing (first)...
100%
Totally agree with you. Trash would damage more item and not just the first main bearing. Design flaw.
If you compare the toyota bed plate vs the ford ecoboost bed plate Mr. Obvious will visit your brain.
@@puffnstuff12Explain a bit further please. I’m interested in the comparison you’re making.
Toyota is slow at identifying problems and rolling out solutions. My 2019 rav4 needed a coolant bypass valve right out of warranty. They still have the same problems popping out and now theres a lawsuit against them.
Did the RAV4 issue get fixed?
Dude they had widely known issues with the 2nd gen Tundra that they did nothing about when they "redesigned" the truck for the 3rd gen. Toyota has gotten very good at gaslighting and dragging their feet to fix issues. I mean even the frame rot issue was widely known about going back to the 1st gen Tundra, it's just that Toyota was confident they wouldn't be forced to issue a recall for it so they did nothing about it when they designed the 2nd gen. They still have issues with external oil lines failing on the 2GR and the "fixes" haven't really solved it, they can still fail as they age.
I think they screwed up the oil galley design in such a way that the first two bearings don't get pressurized enough. Or the oil clearance between the crankshaft and the bearing shells is either too large or too small.
Something doesn't seem right. Trash in the engine should be detectable by oil analysis. And should be easy to identify engines with this issue. My bet something else going on.
If you look at just how much oil demand there is in this design, if the engine is under enough load at low RPM, they're really pushing the bearings hard. Each cylinder has dual oil squirters that are active even at low engine RPM if there's enough load put on the engine. The turbos need oil supplied by the engine's oil pump. The top end of a DOHC VVT engine requires a lot of oil. If that oil is very hot and there's a decent amount of unburned fuel diluting that oil down, you have a very tiny margin for error when it comes to the main bearings. Even in the paper Toyota engineers wrote for the SAE journal, a lot of attention was focused on the crankshaft bearings and they were pushing the capabilities of the materials.
It only takes a small amount of debris to cause the welding / bonding issue you’ve described. Main bearing journal to main bearing clearance is likely < 0.050mm so roughly half the thickness of a sheet of note book paper. The block journals and crankshaft journals are individually pre-measured and then bearings ranked by size (probably 4 bearing ranks) are selected to maintain the journal to bearing clearance. During short block assembly there’s very likely a rotational torque test to determine if there’s a bearing out of position or debris but it would be performed with just a slight amount of oil on the bearings for the test. This test will even sometimes lock up the rotation of crankshaft if debris is present. This leaves me to think there’s a process issue with pre-washing the blocks before assembly to remove all of the fine debris before assembly and the debris adhered to the interior of the block is later circulated unfortunately after the customer has driven it…..
Occum's Razor exactly described... 💯 Stuff happens... and there must be caution before jumping to more complex conclusions. Before toyota made the recall most inspections revealed gross oil starvation indicative of a significant blockage... typically trash does that. But again, only Toyota knows the truth... hopefully they'll speak up soon
One reason why bearing material is soft is so hard foreign debris can embed into the material. This basically removes it from the bearing gap so the problems outlined in the video don’t happen. If you allow the FOD to embed and sit flush to the surface, oil can flow over it as normal.
Did Toyota change the formulation of the bearing material in order to make it harder and thus better able to handle the higher loads caused by turbo boost? This could explain why the particles are not embedding into the softer material like they should, it’s not soft enough.
These bearings need to be plastigauged because the clearances are so small. This debris must be on the order of .001 inches in order to even make it into the bearing. This is on par with metal fragments produced during normal wear and tear as well as the break in period.
Something is not adding up because a particle like the one illustrated in the video is on par with the size of particle that a motor can produce on its own without mfg debris.
Yep, that is true... the "embedment layer" is supposed to take organic trash and keep the bearing flat... key word "organic"... ie.. dirt, grit, etc... not so much aluminum alloy shavings from the block/head
There’s a Tundra with an engine failure right now at my dealership. I asked about it and they said it stalled on the highway and is being repaired under warranty. It had machining debris around the bearings but no metal debris in the oil filter. they also said the driver must have been driving in high water conditions because the air filters had signs of sucking in water. idk what to think really.
Thank you for the real-world feedback. And thanks for doing the short-block install. It will he interesting to see the permanent fix. Question: Is the new short-block the same.exact part number as the original??
The size of the machining debris needs to be known or understood. I suspect the sizes are very small specs, maybe the largest 3Xs the size of the head of a needle. I wouldn’t get caught up “how could Toyota let this happened?” Time will tell if Toyota will make our Tundras whole.
What about the rod bearings? Cams, lobes, valves…???
It’s odd how it’s just the truck engine is being affected. The V35 has been around since 2018 in the LS-500. Odd how the LS-500 engine hasn’t had a recall at all.
LS500 anecdotes are out there... not many but at least "one" is on the net
what model year Tundra affected?
The cam lobes on a 1975 20R engine were severely worn at about 30,000 miles. When I removed the cam, one of the oil journal holes was impacted with what appeared to be casting sand. Shows that improper cleaning can and does happen.
Toyota is the most indebted automaker in the world by quite a bit. They have to make that money back somewhere probably why people complain about the new vehicles being cheaply built or at least seeming that way. You cut corners wherever you can to save some money until you get bit. We now call that value engineering and it usually produces inferior products.
This isn't from debris. Im willing to bet they designed the engine mains with too tight of oil clearance.
and what would be the benefit to the engineers to implement such a flawed design? What would they gain? Would they get a promotion once the engines started blowing up?
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROADI'm not saying they did it on purpose. It was a miscalculation that was overlooked.
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD
One reason I can see for that is to compensate for the low viscosity oil.
Henry's Razor says when an explanation sounds too simple, it is likely a cover story for a much more damaging explanation.
😆 true!
Good video! As someone who has a truck on the recall list I’m driving it like normal and waiting for the remedy.
How worried are you? Be honest with us 🙏
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD I’m less worried about trips near home but I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t concerned about a long distance trip. The remedy will dictate whether I stay with Toyota as a brand. If they don’t do something satisfactory, I’ll leave Toyota for good. I have too much money in the truck and accessories (running boards, tonneau cover, etc) to trust them a second time if things aren’t handled well. At a minimum I need an extended powertrain warranty with a long block if the current engine blows. A proactive long block replacement would be better.
Exactly it’s a very simple machining issue due to a software glitch. But like you said people can’t understand logic and common sense really isn’t that common anymore. Plus there’s also about a dozen channels that are fear mongering and doing it for clout because they’re getting views also 95% of people do not really understand how an engine functions nor can they understand or wrap their head around how a twin turbo V6 can actually be low stress due to the high thermal efficiency Toyota has increased with this 3.4 L engine, that just doesn’t make sense ha ha ha ha
You're spot on. This engine was engineered from the start as a truck engine... they claim since it came from an LS500 in 2017 that its a "car engine"... nope.. it's in 5 trucks and only 1 car (and will never go into another car model) Do the math... it was always intended to be a truck engine. And yes fear and phony sell... Thank you for supportive comments 💖 💓 💗 Also thermal efficiency is too big of a term for the masses to understand 😆... they like caveman terms such as "too much pressure and stress!" 😁
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD 😂😂😂
I had an 07 tundra with the 5.7. No problems, no recalls.
Owners should demand Toyota buy back the truck or join the many lawsuits coming there way. The dealers will start dumping these trucks, very soon on the wholesale market. Warranty work is a money loser for dealerships, that's why the lowest paid least experienced mechanics are assigned warranty work. I have managed companies that service dealers, including Toyota. So ask yourself, do you want a kid to assemble your engine? After all, the trucks are going to comand very little money for a trade in or used car market.
No way this car woulda been completely made with proper assembly line inspection
No lawsuit at least for now, because Toyota admitted the issues and promised a remedy that aa they said they are working on it. Need to wait what will happen in the coming weeks. Remember the Toyota settlement on Camry faulty ring piston on 2azfe engines.
Dang this is a crazy high quality video for a channel with 8k subs.
Thank you for your supportive comments and Thank you for subscribing 🙏 ❤️
They might have a metallurgy problem where there is material flaking off under pressure. Aluminum is not going to work. They need titanium alloy.
And not Boeing suppliers titanium.
The “blah blah blah blah blah”was very informative 😂
Excellent video and logical discussion. My LX is not in the recall yet, and I hope it never is. The engine debris story does sound pretty lame, I just hope that's what happened, and it is not a bad design. I will trust Toyota until I'm proven wrong, I've been driving them for a long time.
Complete and total failure. It's not trash in the block.
I appreciate that you made this video. Of course it all makes sense. And you’re right about social media: it’s toxic AF and the sky is constantly falling. I just purchased a ‘24 tundra a couple weeks before the recall and have been paranoid ever since after watching so much stuff on youtube. Thx again for a good perspective 👍🏻
You will likley be fine! If not Toyota will make it right. If not Lemon Laws are your protection. Enjoy your new Tundra! ❤️ ✌️
I have a very new Tundra. This vid helped reduce my anxiety.
🥲 ❤️ please keep us updated 🙏
I enjoyed all your rambling finally a voice of reason in all the chaos lol. Let’s see how this plays out before flying off the deep end.
it's important to suppress emotions... yes problems are bad... but how big are those problems in reality 🤔?
It is Turbo, people ! Turbo needs right Oil Pressure that is what issue all the time. New engine is Turbo and Turbo cannot be enhanced no matter what, without sacrifcing reliability or longevity. Turbo is capricious !
5w-30 at minimum
lc300 in middle east we have same tundra engine failure and too many videos in tiktok
What is the lake that's shown briefly at 27:36 in the outro? Looks beautiful.
That's Lake Silverwood atop 2N17X:
th-cam.com/video/2wtWVAVadh0/w-d-xo.html
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD Thanks!!
they should’ve had 2 engine options and do a slow phaseout of the legacy engine.
Jasper Rep said it was a machined issue that put the trash in oil ports.
So It's not a design deficiency since they've been using similar designs for years, but it's a cleaning issue? Like they don't know how to clean engines? The Lexus engines had bearing failures as far back as 2018 and continue in 2024. Two different factories, with bearing failures continuing into 2024, even though they claim to have improved cleaning in Feb of 2023.
ya processing hiccups... too many some will argue 😢
Wat type of transmission is each engine attached too.
10 speed Aisin transmission
@ 8:58 your statement is inaccurate. This engine has had issues ever since it debuted in the LS500. Multiple threads about failures on the LS500 as well on the Lexus forums dating back to 2018. Many of us knew the same issues would eventually pop up on the Tundra, LX600, Sequoia, and all other iterations using it. Toyota intentionally ignored the issues and snugged them under the rug for as long as they could. This "voluntary" recall is only because the NHTSA stepped in to investigate. It would've been worse for Toyota if the NHTSA had duplicated on their own accord, just like what happened with the self-accelerating Toyota's from a decade ago, and we all know how that ended for Toyota...
there were some issues, but statistically similar to the issues with the 4.6L and 5.7L when they were born...
I will be interested what we will be saying about it in a few years or even in ten years when the next engine comes out and everyone screams I want to keep my v6 twin turbo!!!
Once the recall fix is initiated and no more failures are reported this drama will be over before just as soon as it started... .... well... hopefully 😆
Hopefully lol
Literally you are the only video with a voice of reason that is not fear mongering people. Thank you for not making videos like the other fools making crap up for views.
Thank you... we try hard not to be crappy (neigh shills nor fear-mongorers)
I appreciate common sense videos and I am inclined to believe as this makes sense to me. Thank you!
Thank you for your support and for subscribing ❤️ 😍 💖
The Tundra engine problem is 100% a manufacturing defect, not a design flaw. The retooling of the 2UR-FE engine plant to make the V35A-FKS is a disaster.
Have they shown this defect? Shouldn't be easy to spot?
So how much you loving the gx460 over this engine ?
We'd love a GX550 but we been a 3rd row option in the Overtrail trim 😢
Finally....Common sense....
🙏 ❤️... Thank-you for your kind support
I don't believe it, how can Toyota let it go for multiple years. So the same engine as a hybrid isn't recalled so what is the difference in the engines?
The Hybrids may have the same issue. However, the reason they aren’t in the recall is Toyota issued a “safety recall” stating engine failure could cause a safety issue if it quit working. A hybrid battery would kick in and keep the engine running. So, no safety recall.
Paid cash for a TRD 1794 hybrid. It’s a big problem. Don’t know if it’s design or build. I’m not really worried. They will make it right. My lawyers are just as good as their lawyers.
Can we please bring back the old V-8 and V-6 naturally aspirated engines please now that the entire world sees your abysmal failure. Go back to the old ways that is what made your company so great.
You havnt had one of these blow up on you and trust me Toyota fought all they could to not make me right on my vehicle. It took me 6 months without a loaner to get a buyback. They obviously didn’t have this motor figured out before they put it on the market. Toyota was seriously the worst entity I have ever dealt with. They even lied on my repair paperwork to say the vehicle was only in the shop 3 days lol. Oh by the way the are only recalling certain trucks now. They don’t care about their customers and trust me this is how they have lost me for life. And I’m sure others as well.
please share your story with us 😢 ❤️
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD I have never made a TH-cam video but I will just to share how awful Toyota was. If they would have admitted fault and gone about it in a civilized manner I wouldn't have bashed them but how they handled it was unreal.
I agree with you, however I can’t help but wonder Toyota been making engines for many many years cleaning a block before you assemble. It would seem to be one of the first things you would do. in addition and they’re still having issues it would be hard to believe that it took them long to diagnose that. I suspect there’s probably something that’s not happening in the mailing process breaking off after a while tab or burr for example
Exactly burrs hanging around then breaking off during operation pre-filtration
Honestly it just sounds like a hypothesis from Toyota and they dont have absolute proof. It could be poor engineering or materials.
This is the only video that makes sense 👍
Thank you for your kind comments. We try to neither shill not fear-monger here. ❤️ 🙏
Let me remind you this was the problem with the Hyundai and Kia 2.4L engine. How the mighty have fallen....
It seems like the problem is isolated to a certain bearing only. To me that means an oiling issue. Particles small enough to fit between the bearing and the crank will get picked up by the filter. I feel like the particles are bigger and get accumulated into an oil passage blocking it partially or completely. Hopefully we find out the truth one day.
Engine oil cooling is possibly not enough for this turbo engine.
Dang , Toyota trucks go from hero to zero. Still loving my V8 Tundra and 4cylinder Taco.
The design issue as shown by this problem (and the earlier turbo problem) is that the cab of the truck has to be removed to remove and replace the engine and/or turbos. What idiot made that decision? This leads to a $30K repair job if out of warranty. That's where the 100000 trucks built x $30K = $3 BILLION estimate comes from.
Obviously Toyota is hoping there is some clever way to determine which engines are susceptible, like maybe oil analysis, so they only have to replace 1% of the engines. Toyota really has to stand behind whatever fix they implement, like a 250K mile engine warranty, or all the animosity is going to spill over to the Turbo 4 vehicles also. Tacoma sales are already dragging due to prices, they're trying to launch the Land Cruiser, and we're just seeing pre-production 2025 4Runners. It has the potential to be a company killer.
Do us right Toyota.
My fully loaded 2022 Limited still runs like a dream. 1st oil change @ 1k 2nd @ 5k and every 5K after with Amsoil synthetic. Warm up for 10 minutes on every start up and idle for 10 minutes on every shut down....
The old engines may have had tiny issues but not catastrophic failures like the new engines that are in the new tundra.
You're paid by Toyota to put this bull sh#t out there
Both the 5.7 and 4.6 had engine failure recalls. "Catastrophic" is an emotional feelz word... fact is old V8s failed and were recalled in the beginning...
So why not change the break in oil right away? Why not flush the engine? Why not add a magnetic filter?
trash/burrs were left in BEFORE the oil filter...
th-cam.com/video/6h-X_TF1Ics/w-d-xo.html
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROADI'll watch that next. Thanks!
Could it be a design flaw in the sense that the engine is under more pressure than a naturally aspirated engine and any flaw in machining introduced unacceptable high risk for engine failure?
There shouldn't be machining trash in the engine in the first place.... like ever 😆 ... so let's go with machining robot flaw
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD as a program manager I will accept machining robot flaw as root cause for the recall but it would be interesting to see the risk and opportunities chart for the engine seems like a proper inspection could have prevented
what I learn from this video: Toyota used to make mistakes and it is okay for them to screw up again🙄
yep that's reality.... search all the open recalls un the US... all manufacturers have them...
That's according to LieOTA(toyota)
Come on Toyota I love you but you've gotta get it together!
Toyota has yet to show us this debris from a fresh milled block, I believe it's a engineering flaw since engines share it and not cnc coding flaw.
How could you explain so low of issues if it’s a design flaw?
show evidence of an engineering flaw.... even anecdotal in nature
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD I believe it's a surging issue and the powertrain is taking high loads at not optimal phases. I like the video
Have feeling that Toyota has no clue (yet) what's happening, we're speculating but so are they (for now), I'm sure they'll fix it. 🍻
great level headed take. i appreciate the neutrality
Hyundai was saying the same and after years their engine still blowing.
Hyundai has one kind of reputation Toya has another kind of reputation 😉
If debris is the cause, new shortblocks will have exactly the same bottom end design. If the design turns out different, the gig is up I guess.
The tech on YT that did at least one tundra short block said it's the same exact part number for the new short block... suggesting Toyota's manufacturing error claim is valid
@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD
Having watched the video, I'm more inclined towards Toyota's explanation than not. You did a good job explaining the detail. It would help close it out if Toyota told us more about the nature of the debris, and why it only affects the main bearings and not other engine internals. Thank you.
This engine is not new to Toyota. Shady business, low quality and reliability is new to Toyota.
So different robots machined the LS500? Fact is there were LS500 failures too. They just weren’t as high volume of a vehicle. The tech at tinkerers adventure’s channel said he had already changed bearings on two LS500’s.
The reason why people think it’s a design issue then why is there no debris in the 4 cylinder turbo’s? Do they have different programming for those robots? Just a little clarification is needed for me as a tundra owner. Why didn’t they fix the issue with the Lexus LS that’s been going on quietly since 2017.
The other issue I have with Toyota is that the recall only affected 80 vehicles that still had to be sold…but in reality they didn’t find the issue until now and they back dated the recall so they could still sell the vast majority of new trucks on the lots. The 2024’s have been failing too and hybrids need to be recalled also, we don’t care if the electric motor keeps the truck “driving”
There are anecdotal failures on many V35A-FTS engines across most (if not all associated models). Bad robots could be to blame for all failures. Only Toyota knows the truth. Statistically all failures are low. Contextually the 4.6L and 5.7L all had engine failures/recalls/growing pains. Again those cases were also emotionally frightening, but in the end statistically irrelevant as Toyota is known to fix problems rather than run away from them.
Machining debri....if you believe that I got a bridge.
Straight up design flaw. Others have pinpointed it. You have to realize that if toyota admits its a design flaw they have to replace EVERY engine. No way they will admit they screwed up. Debri lie can be dealt with on a case by case basis.
There is NO EVIDENCE of a "design flaw" that's just the peanut-gallery being afraid of things they don't understand 😉
So let me understand this correctly! Most of the reports are saying the front most main bearing is affected. Why just that one? Isn't the oil filter doing it's job?
the crap left in engine is gonna face some heavy bearing/journal pressures BEFORE it has a chance to meet the filter...
Reserving judgement, but spidey senses; While Toyota's explanation is plausible, another scenario may be likely. What's the path for oil after pickup? Small debris (glitter) may cause some bearing damage, although larger debris blocks the screen & obstructs oil to the pump. Should the front main bearing get oiled last, any reduced flow &/or pressure would show there first.
Thats what caught my eye, a V16 ??
Great explanation! Feel bad for those who have to deal with this issue. 😕
I honestly think you'll be OK.. but again that's just an opinion 🙃
It will all be a ok if it is a part issue like a main bearing, etc, but how about if it a design issue?
Thanks for a video that hopefully squelches some of these clueless TH-cam "experts" such as @jmc6000 and a few others I've seen posting about the engine design. For which they obviously know nothing about. I sometimes wonder if they are getting paid by Ford or GM to be deliberately disingenuous or they just really don't understand engine failure modes.
Thanks for your kind comments. Yes they're all of fear based speculation. The bedplate is ancient stuff and literally there to stiffen and make things better and stronger. Next, some people don't seem to understand that the oil galleries run in parallel... if there's milling burs left in gallery number-1 then the number-1 main bearing will take all the damage.... some think the engine is oiled in series and the trash should flow everywhere... Anyway it's all just fear 😨 Also the prattle about "girdle assembley" lol... when it's a crankshaft bedplate... which is STONGER than a girdle... a girdle is an afterthought for an engine with traditional caps... a bedplate is and always will be a stronger design... but when the masses are scared they tend to repeat fear prattle
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD The terms are somewhat interchangeable to a degree IF it's not an add-on that only ties the main caps together. I will agree that the term bed plate is a more proper term for the Toyota design. Either way the bed plate itself is not structurally failing, as some TH-cam "experts" would like everyone to believe.
Why does this only affect the main bearing? It seems if this was a debris problem, bearing damage would be random.
each bearing is assigned their own oilway...
@@LexusGX460-OFF-ROAD OK, so the debris only affected that oil way? Must have been not getting cleaned out at a specific point in the manufacturing process. Seem like this could have been corrected. I don't know if the 2023 I got in July of 2023 is affected yet or not. It came off assembly in Austin in early July of 2023. I hope it's OK. 10K on it and 2 oil changes so far.....
Very poorly written and explained. “Trash”? Really? Please aim for accuracy if you wish to report on meaningful things. This is childish and completely useless. If machining debris is left inside an engine, it will exert damage to numerous places. Clearly what has happened here is not simply metallic machining debris left behind. It is an obvious design and or materials flaw. Words matter
Sorry but trash and debris are literally synonyms... thrubleft trash in the engine as they have stated 🙄 "Design flaw theory" has absolutely zero evidence and is purely fear-based
I’m baffled by idiots who don’t understand how good turbos are. They’ve been around for decades.
Ford guys and Toyota guys are whining about turbo v6s
It’s amazing. They don’t understand them and they get scared
Porsche has made a dime or two by putting turbos in their flagship cars
It took Ford a few generations to get the ecoboost reliable.
15:04 Seems like fewer and fewer folks know how to get to the middle nowadays. Sure would help the collective out if we could change that.
It literally says TURD all over it. You know what you bought
Only 1 out of 100 are affected. Not all of em
Yet no way to identify which one those are. Not very good odds in my opinion.
Sure...
Bottom line Toyota Engine plant failure too clean and inspect Engine block before Engine was assembled or Toyota engineers put a cheap bearing inside the engine that caused the cascade failure because of the torque of the engine
I am hanging on to my n/a V8 2UR-GSE FTW!