As always, there's an edge case to point out! Thanks to @IamF4ng- @konradfoyle and @niyls who pointed out that falling terrain blocks *can* force a despawn on loot bags. Some quick testing confirms that if you pile enough falling blocks on top of an area covered in loot bags, then some of them can despawn when covered by the popup terrain blocks that are created when the falling block is destroyed. So watch out for falling bases on top of loot bag piles as you could lose some bags this way! Thanks as always for everyone sharing their knowledge - I love this community!
Do loot bags start de-spawning faster if there is a lot of them on the ground at once? So if there is like 50 bags on the ground does the next bag make the oldest one de-spawn.
Yeah! I was about to comment this! It’s total bs and I tried to see if there was a way to edit this in the xml’s but in the loot bag properties I could not find anything. Do you know of a way to stop terrain from destroying or despawning them? Like through xml editing Also great video! ❤
@@prolificpoultry4899 Thanks for watching - and no I don't know of a way that would be xml editable - block, falling block, then back to terrain block feels like where it also intersects with unity (for collision detection) will be all in the dll's and only moddable via other dll mods.... although maybe if you turned off the part where falling blocks turn into rubble - that would prevent it from happening, but would also mean you could make dishong tower fall down and it would just turn into nothing :D
About your bonus information, I usually build my final horde base in the border of the forest and the wasteland. So my gamestage doesn't boost up during the horde. But the lootbags drop into a pit that's in the wasteland, so after cleaning the remaining zombies, I can enjoy that sweet max bonus lootstage with an Eye-Candy and a rogue hood. 😉👍🏻
Nice. I did this too, except on the border of a tier 5 wasteland POI - which means I also had to severely limit the structure on the POI side to limit the damage of a POI reset.
So I didn't explain this very well looking back, sorry. In theory (from xml diving) the vehicle parts *are* possible, in the blue and red bags only, but only in the category 5 section, which is 20% to exist in blue and 50% in red. Then, if you were lucky enough to get the cat 5 to exist, you have to miss all the other options like tools, books, cash treasure map, weapons, dukes, mods, night vision and helmet light etc and just get the vehicle parts, then within *that* sub category dodge the bicycle and mods categories, and get one of the powered vehicle categories, then within *that* get the engine (instead of the chassis, handlebars, wheels or battery). So I'm not surprised that FNS has never seen one :)
@@FlufferNutterSandwich 2500 hours since A16...I've never seen an engine in a bag either...It's difficult enough getting an engine out of a damned car, nevermind a loot bag.
Also the Rogue hood armor (depends on quality), Salvage total armor set bonus, and the Treasure hunter mod for the helmet does increase the loot stage a bit.
Srsly CP, you do all the detailed work on topics that I ask myself so often but I never have the endurance to actually test it all out as sophisticated as you do 😄 Thanks alot ! There is always something I did not know about on your videos 🙏
Oh a Cautious Pancake video. What will I learn about 7 days that I didn't know before, didn't even know I should know and now am amazed I survived without knowing.
You can also exploit the loot bonus by biome/poi by building your horde base on the edge of a zone such that you are standing in the lesser area but the loot bags are in the higher area. Example: build on the edge of a grass/wasteland area, stand in the grass side during the horde, stand in the wasteland side when opening bags. Same for poi's. Good info. Now, if you could answer whether breaking into gun safe's or metal loot boxes versus lockpicking reduces their rewards, that would be good too. I keep seeing conflicting responses on this (it may be a feature of some mods, but not vanilla).
That's interesting that the lucky looter bonus doesn't amount to much. I agree with you, considering the time it takes to complete a set, that isn't much of a help. Great work as always, thank you for the time you put into the these topics.
Thanks PJF, I feel like doubling the yellow and blue rates would be ok a 4% rate for yellow would be ok for general play, but would then impact the horde night one too, so it'll be hard to balance!
The bears and dire wolves are bugged atm, and don't always attack after you hit them. Free Red loot bags basically. Hunt them at night in the wasteland for big booty.
Out of all the dire wolves and zombie bears I've killed, it's only happened to me once. But I can confirm that I shot a zombie bear 5+ times before it aggroed (and tbh, I don't even remember if it aggroed or not).
Thanks CautiousPancake, heaps of good info there! I hadn't noticed that loot bags were no longer destructible... I won't need to be so careful headshotting spiders amongst the bags on horde nights now. :D
I know right - I wasn't sure either, so had to go find out! Also, it turns out there's a case that I missed that you can lose a bag - if your base collapses on top of the pile of loot bags, they can despawn if the terrain block that gets created happens to sit on the bag in just the right way. So watch out for falling bases on top of loot bags :D
Thanks for the vid CautiousPancake. How about a vid that shows the connection to Perks and what Perk Books they encourage. I could see some interest in that. Cheers.
As always, you are a fountain of knowledge! I always enjoy your videos and learn something while listening! Thank you CP for sharing your knowledge and showing us how you gather your info. Cheers!
These have been changed around a few times. I do remember trying to explain how the loot works and how high the odds can get to find something specific such as small engines. Glock 9 was trying to get one to drop and you have to understand how odds work for a game such as craps where the amounts of times you throw won't effect the odds any. Same thing here -- it might be a one in 10,000 chance you roll a small engine and each time you open a bag it's always one in 10,000 chance - so opening up a thousand bags won't make any difference.
Trying to get a specific magazine to drop looks like that would be a fairly high odds. There's what - over a thousand? Hundreds? don't know. I do know there's been a lot of times where I only needed just a hand full of schematics or magazines to get them all and wouldn't ever get those to drop for me. Due to how high the odds are. It's the same thing - opening up a thousand mailboxes makes no difference.
Well, each instance itself is 1 in 10,000, yeah. But if you opened 1,000 bags in a row, the odds that you get your drop do improve in the aggregate. You'd have a 1 - (9999/10000)^1000 = 0.0951671..., or about 9.5%, chance of getting your drop out of a thousand bags.
A good way to test how the lucky looter books work is to do demo zombie tests instead of normal zombies. That presumed 6% increase with a large test size would be a lot easier to detect compared to a 0.4% increase.
I tried ... did thousands and got nothing that I would call a definitive result. The standard drop rates are messy, I'm not sure that explosive kills are helping/hurting. IT should have been simple, but it wasn't working despite all the testing - at least not well enough to call it solved.
My question is will there be a max amount of loot bags dropped? Questions within this question: - After X amounts of bags drop, will no more drop until I loot them or until they despawn? - Will new ones no longer spawn until old ones despawn or until I loot them? I just feel like early horde night I'm seeing SO MANY loot bags, and then towards the end I hardly see any. I think there can only be so many at a time, or the game won't spawn more until you loot the ones already on the map.
So, i had a horde base that was ripped down mid blood moon and i had quite a bit of loot bags that were on the ground, but when the blocks collapsed on top of them i think they broke them. Not sure if thats actually the case or not but might be something worth looking into
Thanks so much for flagging this - did a quick test and for sure it's a thing - if the block turns into terrain in just the wrong spot it can despawn a loot bag that's there. I've added a pinned comment to flag it to others!
Adjacent to the topic of your last tip: does horde night difficulty go up based on biome? For example, if I were level 10 on day 7, would the horde be much tougher in the wasteland compared to the forest, or would they be the same?
It does! Biome's add extra points to gamestage, and gamestage increases horde difficulty (this is a bit simplified but basically correct). As for early hordes - they may not be that much more difficult early on - e.g. day 7, but you will much more quickly get to the point of having cops and then demos in your hordes if you're in the wasteland as compared to forest biome. Wasteland general spawning is actually probably more challenging early on with lots of spiders, cops, bears, dogs etc - the normal day/night zombies will be harder to deal with likely than the horde. Some players will build their crafting base next to the forest/wasteland border, and put the horde base in the wasteland, to pop over for the better loot bag rewards from horde night :)
Best way to get good loot: make your horde base on the edge of wasteland and forest, with the fighting position on the wasteland. Wait for the horde to beggin on the forest side and fight on the wasteland. Use the best rogue hood with eye candy.
@@CautiousPancake It may seens cheesing, but I think is quite fair, it takes some efort and danger to make a base on the wasteland, also is normaly out of the way.
@josesaldanha2683 i dont blame you. Only insane people base deep inside the wasteland. Heck even basing near it will probably get you visits from zombie bears sometimes.
@@josesaldanha2683 oh 100% - compared to the cheesy stuff I pull with my bases, this is fine 🤣 - it's also a deliberate mechanic by the devs, so I think there's no issue with it. Given the number of dogs, bears, cops and mutated in the wasteland - if you can survive there early, you deserve the better loot!
Dont forget to wear your loot boosting hat and vr set, and to take your eye poppers candy before opening them too. And max out lucky looter of course haha
Interesting stuff, I found a m60 machine gun early on and it was possibly as lucky as I could be I just farm all the big baddies that guarantee a droped red bag in the waste land
So does desert actually have the same loot level (and gamestage?) as burnt or was something off in the video? You said they go up with each biome which would make sense, but those were both showing as 68 there.
I thought they went up for all, but I was watching a GNS vid and I think gamestage and loot for burnt and desert are the same! So they added back in burnt, but didn't give it a custom gamestage or loot level which feels a bit bad.
A video I would love to see is an in-depth look at Stamina and everything that affects it, as both the in-game stats and the wiki are a little wishy washy (or in the case of armor, outright incorrect). For example, according to the character stats menu in-game, our base stamina regen is 8.5 per second. Drinking water says it increases it by 15%, which should bump it up to ~9.7, but the menu shows it as 10 which is strange. It's like our base regen is set to 85% and hydration simply adds 15% to that, making it 100%. Do all drinks do that? What other about the other ways that increase stamina regen like the Cardio skill? Another example is putting on one piece of medium armor, which in the wiki says has a 2.8% stamina reduction and the in-game stats say is a flat -0.56 stamina/s, but what actually happens is that we go from 8.5 to 7.65. That's -0.85/s or a whole 10% reduction! And the flat amount given on armor stats implies an additive reduction (wearing 4 mediums should reduce stamina by 2.24), when in actuality it's a multiplicative reduction, going from 10% for one piece, then 10% of the remaining 90% for second, making two pieces reduce stamina by 19%, etc. until all four are worn and stamina is reduced by ~34% or -2.92/s. Stamina just seems to have a bunch of strange things going on that a in-depth video explaining it would be amazing! And I didn't even mention that aside from a few exceptions, the stamina ui always seems to go up at a steady 5 per half second, whether you are at base 8.5 regen, or wear a heavy armor set where the stats claim you should only have 3.1 regen. Or that despite how miniscule the bonus stamina from Customized fittings is, wearing one on every piece of medium armor nearly brings your regen back up to default, or straight up doubles regen of heavy armor.
That's a great idea but a huge topic for sure. I know I've seen @FranticDan talk about the stamina UI not being very clear and that - I think it was being below 75% for thirsty (it could have been hunger though) makes stam regen drop, and there's no indication at all! I'll have to start putting in some research time :)
I hate to be that guy 😂 But actually, loot bags can be destroyed, found out the hard way. At the very end of my Day 14 horde zombies were able to destroy all support for my base and brought it down. Any loot bags i had below me despawned, lost a couple blue bags and a red one.
Yes, there is a problem with blocks and bags where bags can be despawned because of collision or something like that, it can happen with buried treasure if you close the chest while stuff is still inside, which will spawn a bag, and this bag can sometimes get destroyed when it is too close to terrain blocks. The option to drop bag on death can also apparently cause the bag to be destroyed, and then there is your example of "destroyed" blocks getting spawned near lootbags.
Don't worry about being that guy - there's always a bloody edge case that I miss, no matter how solid I think I have the research! I've added a pinned comment to flag that this scenario exists - did a quick test to confirm it and for sure it's a thing! Thanks to you, and niyls for flagging it!
Farming zombie bear and dire wolves in the wasteland biome is a really strong way to get lots of loot. They spawn everywhere and are very easy to kill mid to late game. Personally i think it's a bit too strong.
Yeah I'd love to do an overhaul once they are up and running for 1.0 - maybe rebirth or darkness falls - I've not even looked at wastland, so that could be fun to do blind :D UL is always my fav as well. If they aren't out in time, once I've exhausted the first round of major vids, I'll start looking at a custom modded run!
about the 20% for the 7 books of Lucky looter, the only way see what the numbers are, would be to do multiple times that 1000 zombie kills, both with the full set and without the full set and make an average of both
The XML for that perk is a "perc_add = .2" I believe that does in fact amount to a 20% addition to the base (2, 3, 30%), or else it would have been a "base_add = .2"
@@Burt2707 I agree that's what it looks like at first glance, but the interesting part is that it adds it to the player. The actual default of 2% is set on the zombie, not the player, so while it may add 20% there is a part of me that believes it's on the wrong entity, and that the 2% for the zombie remains unchanged. But since the calculation of this is not in the xml I can't tell if I'm right or wrong except through testing which seems to show it doesn't make a difference. So I think it's broken, but not sure enough to call it fully.
This is T(anti)FP we are talking about here. Of course the extra 20% is only of the base amount. And from the number of bags dropped at the end it seems like it lines up there.
I started a new game going for a kind of scavenger build (so not much J to anything apart from looting, scavenging and spears) and I'm currently trying to figure out how I can turn butcher Petes (snow biome navezgane) elevator shady into a horde base for a level 5 iron spear and level 1 pistol (the better one) so if you have bas rebuild that can work there a link would be extremely appreciated ❤️ TIA
So... this seemed accurate from before the recent update. I never saw bags except from horde nights... that was until the update. Now I get bags consistently and now have seen my buddy get a red bag from a regular Lumberjack, as of yesterday (on PS5). So unsure if it was his loot luck and the loot stage effecting this but I never get anything but yellow bags. But thats better than the no bags I got before. But I'm a tool/farmer/builder guy so loot luck is not on my side vs him who is a looter sniper guy. So loot luck and stage are his friends.
In a multiplayer game with a wandering horde, does the chance for the loot bag increase with each zombie killed per party, or per player? (I'm guessing per player, since per party would require it to be specifically coded that way, but it would be interesting to see if someone actually tested this instead of relying on superstition/perception.)
While rng creates noise in the data, if you were to do 10 trials of 100 zombies and note the loot bag drop rates for both with and without the lucky looter bonus, law of large numbers would show quite nearly what you might expect. Increase the sample size and it gets harder for rng to deviate, and more samples are going make it easier. Tho I would say do the larger samples because having multiple samples is more useful when we don't have a strong prediction or that the zombies aren't the same
I did multiple trials of 1000 zombies :) and still got significant variance from 1.6% to 3.1% for the expected 2% drop rate. It wasn't easy to get conclusive answers on this one!
i was wondering if you could do a video about how to make a bare minimum, early-mid game hoard base thats cop proof, and or explain what kinds of blocks cop spit will destroy, im on night 30 and the recent blood moon had some cops that completely melted my raid base and i almost died, i dont have electrical stuff yet and this would be a great help because im scared to play again since im not in any way prepared to take on the next blood moon
I've hit a pretty high loot stage and have done over 20 tier 6 infestation and have only gotten a tier 6 tool once in a random cabinet not even in the infestation box. Is that a bug or just unlucky?
@CautiousPancake ok makes sense , I've found a legendary tool but that's it just one. I mean I don't have many hours by any means but I remember watching a infestation video and hearing that
I am wondering if due to the fact your RL was kill all zombies at the same time the game was having issues actually doing a proper calc. Could you kill them in less fast and have different results I am wondering. Also wondering how long inbetween before the rest of the counter
Good question to ask - I did a couple of those test with the sniper and got similar results on drop rates. Similarly I did 50 direwolves at once (using killall) and got 50 loot bags, so I don't think doing them all at once is an issue. Not sure what you mean on the "how long in between" question?
I think an increase from 2% to 2.4% is fine... if you found 20 Lootbags on average after a Horde Night, you would now find 24 Lootbags on average after a Horde Night. In the end, 20% is just 20%.
Nah. I have to disagree. Going to quote JaWoodle here “IF”, it’s always the if. Like yeah I guess it’s a nice bonus but like, you’re never going to notice it outside of horde night if at all. Like seriously, I think it should be buffed, not a 20 percent of 2 percent but just a flat increase to like 8 percent at least.
I do lots of bases, so yes you'll always get more bases here - usually I try and make them unique in a way, either with a new build technique, or a particular look etc. What sort of base are you after?
Agree with@nilsman4994, 200% loot will give you doubles of things that normally only give one. So you don't get better loot, just more of it. Particularly makes a difference with the magazines. Useful if you want to speed through a run a bit faster.
One of the reasons you got so few loot bags during the rocket launcher testing, is that loot bags have health. If you attack them, they will take damage, and eventually be destroyed. Rockets don't have much damage to blocks, but entities like lootbags?
Thanks @niyls - came here to say that :) Also I used the rockets that do lots of block damage (and also tried the zombie damage alternates) with no effect on the loot bag.
From our testing last night on horde night, it seems like we were getting significantly more drops using one hit kill weaponry. And significantly less using multi-hit weaponry. Any truth to that, or complete coincidence?
I think coincidence - I did some additional testing i didn't show in the vid, that wasn't the rocket launcher, and got similar variance in numbers - for example sometimes for 1000 zombies I'd get above 3% drop rates for yellow bags, and sometimes down near 1% - from memory what I saw was 31 bags one time, and 11 another as the more outer limits of my tests. This was non-horde night, so there was none of the additional horde night extra bonus drop rates that you get there.
@@CautiousPancake interesting. I was using the SMG while my friend was using the Deagle. She was getting bags probably 5x more often than me. When I switched to a shotgun and one hitting zombie's heads, the drop rate equalised.
@@doodlepugg For sure there could eb something there. It could also be that if you were killing zombies but slower, and your friend was 1-shotting, the higher rate of kills she had meant higher likelyhood that the bad drop would occur on her kill than yours. when you are both 1 shotting it woudl then be 50/50. It's also not clear from the xml how the horde night bonus rate affects multiplayer - I've assumed it is the same and split over both of your kills, but I wasn't able to find an internal cvar that showed the bonus, so it could be that each player has their own bonus percentage, and again that case, a slower kill rate will mean one person hits their 12 count faster.
@@CautiousPancake yeah good assumptions, and I'd certainly agree, if not for the fact I was killing more hahaha. It's certainly something I'll try again and see what I come up with. It just seems all too coincidental that I get drops mostly from one shot/headshots both on bloodmoon and normally. Probably just overthinking it though hahaha!
@@doodlepugg Possibly - to be fair most of my testing was 1-shot kills (otherwise it would've taken weeks :D) so there could be something there for sure - worth keeping an eye on!
Could the 20% drop chance increase the odds of the extra categories of loot inside lootbags rather than the drop rate of the bags themselves. In the video it looked like you were getting more extra categories than usual at the end.
It's supposed to be, but I think my recordings always seem to be more near 18 mins real time. It could be that with all the zombies and action the game doesn't keep up. So be a little careful!
It's part of the game when you're in creative mod (if you're on PC on singleplayer, hit F1 to open console then type "cm") then you can hit F6 to open the spawn menu. It's useful for testing these sort of things!
Yeah it didn't always do that, back a few updates you could go through a full moon night without having to open the loot bags but now they disappear so if you don't pick up the nice loot bags right away... you'll lose out on whatever is inside sadly.
@@CautiousPancakeAlso loot bags in spikes are almost always impossible to loot without destroying the spikes to get the option to loot them. I think I have only been able to loot one bag in spikes.
@@ricb7418 ah - so more positioning of the bag vs the spikes - I get you. I use spikes so rarely (due to the lack of XP, and short duration during horde).
As always, there's an edge case to point out! Thanks to @IamF4ng- @konradfoyle and @niyls who pointed out that falling terrain blocks *can* force a despawn on loot bags. Some quick testing confirms that if you pile enough falling blocks on top of an area covered in loot bags, then some of them can despawn when covered by the popup terrain blocks that are created when the falling block is destroyed.
So watch out for falling bases on top of loot bag piles as you could lose some bags this way!
Thanks as always for everyone sharing their knowledge - I love this community!
Do loot bags start de-spawning faster if there is a lot of them on the ground at once? So if there is like 50 bags on the ground does the next bag make the oldest one de-spawn.
Yeah! I was about to comment this! It’s total bs and I tried to see if there was a way to edit this in the xml’s but in the loot bag properties I could not find anything.
Do you know of a way to stop terrain from destroying or despawning them? Like through xml editing
Also great video! ❤
@@prolificpoultry4899 Thanks for watching - and no I don't know of a way that would be xml editable - block, falling block, then back to terrain block feels like where it also intersects with unity (for collision detection) will be all in the dll's and only moddable via other dll mods.... although maybe if you turned off the part where falling blocks turn into rubble - that would prevent it from happening, but would also mean you could make dishong tower fall down and it would just turn into nothing :D
Keep up the great work brother🥞🥞🥞
@@CautiousPancakewhy is my game taking sooo long to load a new world
About your bonus information, I usually build my final horde base in the border of the forest and the wasteland. So my gamestage doesn't boost up during the horde. But the lootbags drop into a pit that's in the wasteland, so after cleaning the remaining zombies, I can enjoy that sweet max bonus lootstage with an Eye-Candy and a rogue hood. 😉👍🏻
Haha that's really making the most of the boundaries, nice work! 😀
Nice. I did this too, except on the border of a tier 5 wasteland POI - which means I also had to severely limit the structure on the POI side to limit the damage of a POI reset.
This guy is the hero we didnt deserve but so desperately needed! Thanks for clearing all the confusion on 7 days mechanics
Glad I could help!
Huh, so Glock's trapped inside series really was doomed from the very start, no chance of getting an engine.
1200 hours into the game since A18, I have never seen an engine in loot bags.
So I didn't explain this very well looking back, sorry. In theory (from xml diving) the vehicle parts *are* possible, in the blue and red bags only, but only in the category 5 section, which is 20% to exist in blue and 50% in red. Then, if you were lucky enough to get the cat 5 to exist, you have to miss all the other options like tools, books, cash treasure map, weapons, dukes, mods, night vision and helmet light etc and just get the vehicle parts, then within *that* sub category dodge the bicycle and mods categories, and get one of the powered vehicle categories, then within *that* get the engine (instead of the chassis, handlebars, wheels or battery). So I'm not surprised that FNS has never seen one :)
@@FlufferNutterSandwich 2500 hours since A16...I've never seen an engine in a bag either...It's difficult enough getting an engine out of a damned car, nevermind a loot bag.
I got one engine in a blue bag it was in a 200~250 day horde at alpha 21, haven't seen one at 1.0
I think they can spawn in blue loot bags. He was wrong to add all demos.
Also the Rogue hood armor (depends on quality), Salvage total armor set bonus, and the Treasure hunter mod for the helmet does increase the loot stage a bit.
Great tip thanks!
Salvage armor?
@@Mohawk_Productions scavenger, though that has a max quality bonus of 20%, which is matched by a level 6 rogue hood...
CP is the type of guy who might read assembly code for relaxation ;) lol
I always appreciate the attention to detail and usefulness of the info.
You're welcome, hope it's useful!
Dont... don't abbreviate the name on him man.
..Please Just say his full name…
Srsly CP, you do all the detailed work on topics that I ask myself so often but I never have the endurance to actually test it all out as sophisticated as you do 😄
Thanks alot ! There is always something I did not know about on your videos 🙏
Great info. Thank you! I use 2 hour days, so knowing and not just suspecting that the bags will despawn is very helpful.
You're welcome - and for sure those early bags for the longer horde night will be gone!
Oh a Cautious Pancake video. What will I learn about 7 days that I didn't know before, didn't even know I should know and now am amazed I survived without knowing.
Well if you didn't find it useful, why bother commenting?
Thanks - glad it was helpful!
@@wizardgaming758 read it again, slower.
Great video! Learnt a few things, including the main thing that lead me here (whether or not loot bags despawn during horde night).
Glad I could help!
You can also exploit the loot bonus by biome/poi by building your horde base on the edge of a zone such that you are standing in the lesser area but the loot bags are in the higher area. Example: build on the edge of a grass/wasteland area, stand in the grass side during the horde, stand in the wasteland side when opening bags. Same for poi's.
Good info. Now, if you could answer whether breaking into gun safe's or metal loot boxes versus lockpicking reduces their rewards, that would be good too. I keep seeing conflicting responses on this (it may be a feature of some mods, but not vanilla).
That bonus tip at the end, Didn't know about that, ill definitely consider building a base on a existing POI.
It can make a difference for sure! 😊
Until u get a quest for that building ur base is in and everything gets wiped when u start it
Loving your videos, so calmly explained and organized with graphics on the screen, thank you
Awesome, thank you!
That's interesting that the lucky looter bonus doesn't amount to much. I agree with you, considering the time it takes to complete a set, that isn't much of a help. Great work as always, thank you for the time you put into the these topics.
Thanks PJF, I feel like doubling the yellow and blue rates would be ok a 4% rate for yellow would be ok for general play, but would then impact the horde night one too, so it'll be hard to balance!
The bears and dire wolves are bugged atm, and don't always attack after you hit them. Free Red loot bags basically. Hunt them at night in the wasteland for big booty.
Ooh nice, I've not seen that yet, thanks!
Out of all the dire wolves and zombie bears I've killed, it's only happened to me once. But I can confirm that I shot a zombie bear 5+ times before it aggroed (and tbh, I don't even remember if it aggroed or not).
I thought my stealth build was just working extremely well, but I guess maybe the dozens that I killed all just didn't fight back?
That’s why I always go to the wasteland as soon as I reach level 10 to farm fire wolves and bears. Saves me 1 week of grind.
Good plan, sounds like you can handle the extra difficulty!
Thanks for this very comprehensive look at loot bags. Learned something here!
Thanks GamingAfter50!
Thanks CautiousPancake, heaps of good info there! I hadn't noticed that loot bags were no longer destructible... I won't need to be so careful headshotting spiders amongst the bags on horde nights now. :D
I know right - I wasn't sure either, so had to go find out! Also, it turns out there's a case that I missed that you can lose a bag - if your base collapses on top of the pile of loot bags, they can despawn if the terrain block that gets created happens to sit on the bag in just the right way. So watch out for falling bases on top of loot bags :D
Another great vid Pancake! Thanks!
My pleasure!
Thank you for the vid! All my questions about the loot bags were answered!
Glad I could help!
Its sad to me that “the pig” is undead now rather than being just a straight out badass
Dead pig??? Youuu rotten swine!! (Bluebottle - The Goon Show)
I know. It's previous meat carving was amazing. Nows it's only good for farm plots and hobo stew
@@westernbody and the loot bag... Plus, you get plenty of meat from the "relatives" in the house.
much obliged as always bud, thanks for sharin these top tier bits of info.
No problem 👍
Incredible video dude, very well done.
Thanks a ton! 😊
Great info, I've always wondered what exactly can be in the bags
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for the vid CautiousPancake. How about a vid that shows the connection to Perks and what Perk Books they encourage. I could see some interest in that. Cheers.
As always, you are a fountain of knowledge! I always enjoy your videos and learn something while listening! Thank you CP for sharing your knowledge and showing us how you gather your info. Cheers!
Thanks T - always a pleasure!!
These have been changed around a few times.
I do remember trying to explain how the loot works and how high the odds can get to find something specific such as small engines. Glock 9 was trying to get one to drop and you have to understand how odds work for a game such as craps where the amounts of times you throw won't effect the odds any. Same thing here -- it might be a one in 10,000 chance you roll a small engine and each time you open a bag it's always one in 10,000 chance - so opening up a thousand bags won't make any difference.
Trying to get a specific magazine to drop looks like that would be a fairly high odds. There's what - over a thousand? Hundreds? don't know. I do know there's been a lot of times where I only needed just a hand full of schematics or magazines to get them all and wouldn't ever get those to drop for me. Due to how high the odds are. It's the same thing - opening up a thousand mailboxes makes no difference.
Agree - with the number of factors required to line up a small engine - it's in theory possible, but gotta be very small!
Well, each instance itself is 1 in 10,000, yeah. But if you opened 1,000 bags in a row, the odds that you get your drop do improve in the aggregate. You'd have a 1 - (9999/10000)^1000 = 0.0951671..., or about 9.5%, chance of getting your drop out of a thousand bags.
This is a Informatic and Calm down video, i like it (:
Thanks! 😃
A good way to test how the lucky looter books work is to do demo zombie tests instead of normal zombies. That presumed 6% increase with a large test size would be a lot easier to detect compared to a 0.4% increase.
I tried ... did thousands and got nothing that I would call a definitive result. The standard drop rates are messy, I'm not sure that explosive kills are helping/hurting. IT should have been simple, but it wasn't working despite all the testing - at least not well enough to call it solved.
I like when you find a random yellow loot bag laying around.
It's so good right! 👍
There was a period in several beta versions where mountain lions also had 100% drop rate for red bags
Haha yeah, I didn't want to mention it in case people thought it was still happening 😄
In 1.0 version after few days released , I killed first mountain lion and it gave me first red bag , I thought it was some kind of bug
@@nosoupforyou8202 it was - they've patched out the red bags from animals, other than direwolf and zombie bears.
My question is will there be a max amount of loot bags dropped?
Questions within this question:
- After X amounts of bags drop, will no more drop until I loot them or until they despawn?
- Will new ones no longer spawn until old ones despawn or until I loot them?
I just feel like early horde night I'm seeing SO MANY loot bags, and then towards the end I hardly see any. I think there can only be so many at a time, or the game won't spawn more until you loot the ones already on the map.
Good info, my dood!
Cheers!
Good information, thanks Pancake 👍
Thanks MrMac!
So then is the stage of the loot bag determined at the time it's dropped or at the time it's opened? Asking for a friend. Awesome video.
pls info about loot value and "dangerous" places
building difficulty + biome difficulty
or does the higher one count?
So, i had a horde base that was ripped down mid blood moon and i had quite a bit of loot bags that were on the ground, but when the blocks collapsed on top of them i think they broke them. Not sure if thats actually the case or not but might be something worth looking into
Thanks so much for flagging this - did a quick test and for sure it's a thing - if the block turns into terrain in just the wrong spot it can despawn a loot bag that's there. I've added a pinned comment to flag it to others!
11:30 i have had loot bags still there when i get off game for 2+ days, and it is still there
Eternal loot bags! Until you get close of course 😄
15:20 well the 30-ish bags are clearly closer to 24 than to 220. :)
Adjacent to the topic of your last tip: does horde night difficulty go up based on biome? For example, if I were level 10 on day 7, would the horde be much tougher in the wasteland compared to the forest, or would they be the same?
It does! Biome's add extra points to gamestage, and gamestage increases horde difficulty (this is a bit simplified but basically correct). As for early hordes - they may not be that much more difficult early on - e.g. day 7, but you will much more quickly get to the point of having cops and then demos in your hordes if you're in the wasteland as compared to forest biome.
Wasteland general spawning is actually probably more challenging early on with lots of spiders, cops, bears, dogs etc - the normal day/night zombies will be harder to deal with likely than the horde.
Some players will build their crafting base next to the forest/wasteland border, and put the horde base in the wasteland, to pop over for the better loot bag rewards from horde night :)
That's a lotta looty bags.
You get a bag and you get a bag...
Best way to get good loot: make your horde base on the edge of wasteland and forest, with the fighting position on the wasteland. Wait for the horde to beggin on the forest side and fight on the wasteland. Use the best rogue hood with eye candy.
Great tip!
@@CautiousPancake It may seens cheesing, but I think is quite fair, it takes some efort and danger to make a base on the wasteland, also is normaly out of the way.
@josesaldanha2683 i dont blame you. Only insane people base deep inside the wasteland. Heck even basing near it will probably get you visits from zombie bears sometimes.
@@josesaldanha2683 oh 100% - compared to the cheesy stuff I pull with my bases, this is fine 🤣 - it's also a deliberate mechanic by the devs, so I think there's no issue with it. Given the number of dogs, bears, cops and mutated in the wasteland - if you can survive there early, you deserve the better loot!
Dont forget to wear your loot boosting hat and vr set, and to take your eye poppers candy before opening them too. And max out lucky looter of course haha
What is the cap on Loot-stage? I assume after a certain point boosting it is pointless.
208
Schrodinger's loot bag.
Cant trust TH-cam even in my mind, I thought of searching this topic up this morning and here it is being recommended out of nowhere lol
haha perfect!
Interesting stuff, I found a m60 machine gun early on and it was possibly as lucky as I could be I just farm all the big baddies that guarantee a droped red bag in the waste land
Bonus Tipp was insane
So does desert actually have the same loot level (and gamestage?) as burnt or was something off in the video? You said they go up with each biome which would make sense, but those were both showing as 68 there.
I thought they went up for all, but I was watching a GNS vid and I think gamestage and loot for burnt and desert are the same! So they added back in burnt, but didn't give it a custom gamestage or loot level which feels a bit bad.
A video I would love to see is an in-depth look at Stamina and everything that affects it, as both the in-game stats and the wiki are a little wishy washy (or in the case of armor, outright incorrect). For example, according to the character stats menu in-game, our base stamina regen is 8.5 per second. Drinking water says it increases it by 15%, which should bump it up to ~9.7, but the menu shows it as 10 which is strange. It's like our base regen is set to 85% and hydration simply adds 15% to that, making it 100%. Do all drinks do that? What other about the other ways that increase stamina regen like the Cardio skill?
Another example is putting on one piece of medium armor, which in the wiki says has a 2.8% stamina reduction and the in-game stats say is a flat -0.56 stamina/s, but what actually happens is that we go from 8.5 to 7.65. That's -0.85/s or a whole 10% reduction! And the flat amount given on armor stats implies an additive reduction (wearing 4 mediums should reduce stamina by 2.24), when in actuality it's a multiplicative reduction, going from 10% for one piece, then 10% of the remaining 90% for second, making two pieces reduce stamina by 19%, etc. until all four are worn and stamina is reduced by ~34% or -2.92/s.
Stamina just seems to have a bunch of strange things going on that a in-depth video explaining it would be amazing! And I didn't even mention that aside from a few exceptions, the stamina ui always seems to go up at a steady 5 per half second, whether you are at base 8.5 regen, or wear a heavy armor set where the stats claim you should only have 3.1 regen. Or that despite how miniscule the bonus stamina from Customized fittings is, wearing one on every piece of medium armor nearly brings your regen back up to default, or straight up doubles regen of heavy armor.
That's a great idea but a huge topic for sure. I know I've seen @FranticDan talk about the stamina UI not being very clear and that - I think it was being below 75% for thirsty (it could have been hunger though) makes stam regen drop, and there's no indication at all! I'll have to start putting in some research time :)
A little pig.My 2 weeks of playing and i found your little pig you speak of. He scared the shit out of me when i found the situation I was in.
hehe - it's an experience for sure :D
I hate to be that guy 😂
But actually, loot bags can be destroyed, found out the hard way. At the very end of my Day 14 horde zombies were able to destroy all support for my base and brought it down. Any loot bags i had below me despawned, lost a couple blue bags and a red one.
Yes, there is a problem with blocks and bags where bags can be despawned because of collision or something like that, it can happen with buried treasure if you close the chest while stuff is still inside, which will spawn a bag, and this bag can sometimes get destroyed when it is too close to terrain blocks. The option to drop bag on death can also apparently cause the bag to be destroyed, and then there is your example of "destroyed" blocks getting spawned near lootbags.
Don't worry about being that guy - there's always a bloody edge case that I miss, no matter how solid I think I have the research! I've added a pinned comment to flag that this scenario exists - did a quick test to confirm it and for sure it's a thing! Thanks to you, and niyls for flagging it!
CP, your character model reminds me of Kurt Russell in ' Tombstone ' lol.😂
Haha that's a win!
welp time to go on a dire wolf killing spree i guess
Absolutely! They pack a punch though early on.
Almost glad you didn’t share the rare zombie that drops the red bag but also nervous now for when I find out what it is 😅😂
I promise (I totally don't) that nothing bad will happen when you find it.... 😄
There's also a candy that increases loot stage
Once had 4 zombies drop loot bags in a row
That's a good run of RNG!
Make a video on loot containers, like cupboards, toilets, book cases etc
Farming zombie bear and dire wolves in the wasteland biome is a really strong way to get lots of loot. They spawn everywhere and are very easy to kill mid to late game.
Personally i think it's a bit too strong.
Thank you fir not spoiling the other zombie after the bear
Id like to know which it is
Yo CP hope you do a long play through with a mod, like Darkness Falls, or Wastlan.
Yeah I'd love to do an overhaul once they are up and running for 1.0 - maybe rebirth or darkness falls - I've not even looked at wastland, so that could be fun to do blind :D
UL is always my fav as well. If they aren't out in time, once I've exhausted the first round of major vids, I'll start looking at a custom modded run!
about the 20% for the 7 books of Lucky looter, the only way see what the numbers are, would be to do multiple times that 1000 zombie kills, both with the full set and without the full set and make an average of both
I cut that out but I did that a bunch and the numbers were not conclusive. Too much variance even after several thousand zombies on each test!
The XML for that perk is a "perc_add = .2" I believe that does in fact amount to a 20% addition to the base (2, 3, 30%), or else it would have been a "base_add = .2"
@@Burt2707 I agree that's what it looks like at first glance, but the interesting part is that it adds it to the player. The actual default of 2% is set on the zombie, not the player, so while it may add 20% there is a part of me that believes it's on the wrong entity, and that the 2% for the zombie remains unchanged. But since the calculation of this is not in the xml I can't tell if I'm right or wrong except through testing which seems to show it doesn't make a difference. So I think it's broken, but not sure enough to call it fully.
I'm glad he didn't show Grace, that was a startling find
This is T(anti)FP we are talking about here. Of course the extra 20% is only of the base amount. And from the number of bags dropped at the end it seems like it lines up there.
Agree that seems to be the case on this one.
I started a new game going for a kind of scavenger build (so not much J to anything apart from looting, scavenging and spears) and I'm currently trying to figure out how I can turn butcher Petes (snow biome navezgane) elevator shady into a horde base for a level 5 iron spear and level 1 pistol (the better one) so if you have bas rebuild that can work there a link would be extremely appreciated ❤️ TIA
Hey! About destroying the lootbags... if a house collapse, the bags are gone too? Glitched into another world? Or are they findable?
I think in that case they are goooooone - more a glitch than an intended mechanic :(
So... this seemed accurate from before the recent update. I never saw bags except from horde nights... that was until the update. Now I get bags consistently and now have seen my buddy get a red bag from a regular Lumberjack, as of yesterday (on PS5). So unsure if it was his loot luck and the loot stage effecting this but I never get anything but yellow bags. But thats better than the no bags I got before. But I'm a tool/farmer/builder guy so loot luck is not on my side vs him who is a looter sniper guy. So loot luck and stage are his friends.
In a multiplayer game with a wandering horde, does the chance for the loot bag increase with each zombie killed per party, or per player? (I'm guessing per player, since per party would require it to be specifically coded that way, but it would be interesting to see if someone actually tested this instead of relying on superstition/perception.)
While rng creates noise in the data, if you were to do 10 trials of 100 zombies and note the loot bag drop rates for both with and without the lucky looter bonus, law of large numbers would show quite nearly what you might expect. Increase the sample size and it gets harder for rng to deviate, and more samples are going make it easier. Tho I would say do the larger samples because having multiple samples is more useful when we don't have a strong prediction or that the zombies aren't the same
I did multiple trials of 1000 zombies :) and still got significant variance from 1.6% to 3.1% for the expected 2% drop rate. It wasn't easy to get conclusive answers on this one!
@@CautiousPancake dang, rip
A while ago I got a 4X4 chassis from a direwolf!
2 hours ago I got another one XD!
Gotta love wolves that carry around half a car 🤣 but on the other hand, massive find!
i was wondering if you could do a video about how to make a bare minimum, early-mid game hoard base thats cop proof, and or explain what kinds of blocks cop spit will destroy, im on night 30 and the recent blood moon had some cops that completely melted my raid base and i almost died, i dont have electrical stuff yet and this would be a great help because im scared to play again since im not in any way prepared to take on the next blood moon
That could be an interesting base to do for sure. Let me have at think!
I've hit a pretty high loot stage and have done over 20 tier 6 infestation and have only gotten a tier 6 tool once in a random cabinet not even in the infestation box. Is that a bug or just unlucky?
Don't quote me, but I thought that since 1.0 dropped, all tier 6's were effectively removed from loot - they want you to use the legendary parts?
@CautiousPancake ok makes sense , I've found a legendary tool but that's it just one. I mean I don't have many hours by any means but I remember watching a infestation video and hearing that
I am wondering if due to the fact your RL was kill all zombies at the same time the game was having issues actually doing a proper calc. Could you kill them in less fast and have different results I am wondering. Also wondering how long inbetween before the rest of the counter
Good question to ask - I did a couple of those test with the sniper and got similar results on drop rates. Similarly I did 50 direwolves at once (using killall) and got 50 loot bags, so I don't think doing them all at once is an issue. Not sure what you mean on the "how long in between" question?
I think an increase from 2% to 2.4% is fine... if you found 20 Lootbags on average after a Horde Night, you would now find 24 Lootbags on average after a Horde Night.
In the end, 20% is just 20%.
Thanks, always interesting to see everyone's take on what's working well as is!
Nah. I have to disagree. Going to quote JaWoodle here “IF”, it’s always the if. Like yeah I guess it’s a nice bonus but like, you’re never going to notice it outside of horde night if at all. Like seriously, I think it should be buffed, not a 20 percent of 2 percent but just a flat increase to like 8 percent at least.
Shiny & chrome ! Thanks
You bet!
How does the skill of looting effect loot stage, if at all?
Good content dude, can you make a base tutorial?
I do lots of bases, so yes you'll always get more bases here - usually I try and make them unique in a way, either with a new build technique, or a particular look etc. What sort of base are you after?
Dunno if this was changed in 1.1 but my loot bags seem to last indefinitely, even after starting a quest in a POI
Could you go over heat?
I need to go watch the PseudoPosse video they've just done on heat - it might be that they've covered all the main points!
Hmmm… is it worth putting the loot abundance setting to 200%? Or does it kinda break the game by making rarer items appear like its plant fibre?
It's worth it, it's just more, not better loot as far as I can tell
Agree with@nilsman4994, 200% loot will give you doubles of things that normally only give one. So you don't get better loot, just more of it. Particularly makes a difference with the magazines. Useful if you want to speed through a run a bit faster.
One of the reasons you got so few loot bags during the rocket launcher testing, is that loot bags have health. If you attack them, they will take damage, and eventually be destroyed. Rockets don't have much damage to blocks, but entities like lootbags?
09:07 mentions the bag's health not being a thing, with demonstration
Thanks @niyls - came here to say that :) Also I used the rockets that do lots of block damage (and also tried the zombie damage alternates) with no effect on the loot bag.
lootbags: One of the reasons you don't need to craft ammo
Thank you good sir
You're welcome
From our testing last night on horde night, it seems like we were getting significantly more drops using one hit kill weaponry. And significantly less using multi-hit weaponry. Any truth to that, or complete coincidence?
I think coincidence - I did some additional testing i didn't show in the vid, that wasn't the rocket launcher, and got similar variance in numbers - for example sometimes for 1000 zombies I'd get above 3% drop rates for yellow bags, and sometimes down near 1% - from memory what I saw was 31 bags one time, and 11 another as the more outer limits of my tests. This was non-horde night, so there was none of the additional horde night extra bonus drop rates that you get there.
@@CautiousPancake interesting.
I was using the SMG while my friend was using the Deagle. She was getting bags probably 5x more often than me. When I switched to a shotgun and one hitting zombie's heads, the drop rate equalised.
@@doodlepugg For sure there could eb something there. It could also be that if you were killing zombies but slower, and your friend was 1-shotting, the higher rate of kills she had meant higher likelyhood that the bad drop would occur on her kill than yours. when you are both 1 shotting it woudl then be 50/50. It's also not clear from the xml how the horde night bonus rate affects multiplayer - I've assumed it is the same and split over both of your kills, but I wasn't able to find an internal cvar that showed the bonus, so it could be that each player has their own bonus percentage, and again that case, a slower kill rate will mean one person hits their 12 count faster.
@@CautiousPancake yeah good assumptions, and I'd certainly agree, if not for the fact I was killing more hahaha. It's certainly something I'll try again and see what I come up with. It just seems all too coincidental that I get drops mostly from one shot/headshots both on bloodmoon and normally. Probably just overthinking it though hahaha!
@@doodlepugg Possibly - to be fair most of my testing was 1-shot kills (otherwise it would've taken weeks :D) so there could be something there for sure - worth keeping an eye on!
Can you get level 6 loot from them or is it only obtainable from crafting?
You can also get legendary items from tier 6 rewards
No t6 items in the loot bags I don't think! Legendary parts are fairly frequent though (relatively speaking), which can come in handy
Are there any blocks that allow loot bags to fall through but not zombies?
I used the cube 1/8th block in this base to try and do just that! th-cam.com/video/BaGUQKveYV8/w-d-xo.html
So in a wondering horde, we're better off to kill 3 regular zombies then kill the blue bag zombies last?
Oooh that is brilliant! Yes that should work. I've not tested but I will soon. Fully expect it to work!
Could the 20% drop chance increase the odds of the extra categories of loot inside lootbags rather than the drop rate of the bags themselves. In the video it looked like you were getting more extra categories than usual at the end.
It's not supposed to! I think that's just RNG, sometimes you get a good streak, sometimes not so much.
Not sure what setting is switched but my bags never disappear at all had same bags from day 59 to 75so hmmmmm not sure
Interesting 🤔 playing with mods or vanilla?
Work the math for the %20 looting on horde %drop it gets better.
Thanks. 60 minutes, 18 hour days = 15 minute horde. I was wondering if I was losing loot bags.
It's supposed to be, but I think my recordings always seem to be more near 18 mins real time. It could be that with all the zombies and action the game doesn't keep up. So be a little careful!
60 minutes, 18 hour day, it was 17 minute horde nite for me
Red bags are new and added on the full release
They were in alpha 21 as well if you are on PC?
Bro sounds like Noel Deyzel 🗣️🔥
Orange red looks it does
Colorblind I may be
Nope it's definitely a bit orange, but everyone calls em the red bags 😀
Are you using a mod to spawn things or is it from the game, if it is a mod can you send it, thanks and great video.
It's part of the game when you're in creative mod (if you're on PC on singleplayer, hit F1 to open console then type "cm") then you can hit F6 to open the spawn menu. It's useful for testing these sort of things!
wait, they DESPAWN?! I've always played with a 90 minute/18 hour day cycle so I've been potentially/probably missing out on loot T_T
Ooh yeah with the longer days those early bags will be gone 😢
Yeah it didn't always do that, back a few updates you could go through a full moon night without having to open the loot bags but now they disappear so if you don't pick up the nice loot bags right away... you'll lose out on whatever is inside sadly.
I have notice it's hard to lootbags if the zombi have died in spikes?
Hard to get to them you mean? It is sometimes! Try a scaffold of wood frames in, that can help.
@@CautiousPancakeAlso loot bags in spikes are almost always impossible to loot without destroying the spikes to get the option to loot them. I think I have only been able to loot one bag in spikes.
@@CautiousPancake Yes sorry my English is not that good but that what I meant
@@ricb7418 ah - so more positioning of the bag vs the spikes - I get you. I use spikes so rarely (due to the lack of XP, and short duration during horde).
nice video
Thanks!
One minute ago is devious
Can these bags destroyed by zombies?
Haha I wrote the comment before end of the video 😅
Haha - glad you picked up on it :D