Have any of you guys been running the new Fellhammer Siege Host yet!? I'd love to hear any of your experiences or if I missed a neat combo or build PS: I had to record this like 3 times over lol. First time it got too late & then the 2nd time I didn't have my mic plugged in..... Good times Edit: I did miss a combo! Sorcerer (or Termie sorc) with the Iron Artifice relic is actually good! 10pt to have his dev wounds pop off on 4+ vs vehicles is spicy with the d3 damage
Ohoo, did you try the Sorcerer combo yet? Imagine how crazy tough that would be to chew through! Either way, hell yeah that's exactly how the detachment is meant to work so congrats on the game!
This is the video I needed. I'm primarily an Iron Warriors collector and painter, lore appreciator, and I've been putting off my tabletop conquest until this codex. I know where to begin, but that's about it. So thanks so much.
You were the *exact* target for this video, can't tell you how great it is to see a comment like that! Best of luck on the table & you're always welcome to reach out if you have any questions along the way
@@fatarchonI do actually have a question if you don't mind. For Fellhammer, it's the question of MSU vs full 10 man squads concerning Legionaries, chosen and Terminators. I feel like for Brutal attrition, it's gonna be better to have 10 man squads in engagement of two MSU's. But what about Terminators and Chosen? And do we stick to 3 to 4 characters or go 5-6?
I love your content man! Been following from the beginning! Super glad you’re posting more often!!! Great work can’t wait for the future with the channel!
Id say a terminator lord + bastion plate + plus 10 terminators and a Sorcerer lord in Terminator armour + terminators seems to a be a mandatory start for writing a list for siege host. I really want a new cataphractii sculpt so i can make a second block of terminators for my socerer to lead...
Sadly Bastion Plate cannot be used on Terminator Lords because they TECHNICALLY arent a “Chaos Lord” unit, they’re a “Chaos Lord In Terminator Armor” unit which excludes them from being able to use Bastion Plate
I’m really excited to play this detachment. My only problem is I feel bad putting a Sorcerer in my Iron Warriors list, even if he is in terminator armor lol
I played a 1250 point game as Fellhammer into Custodes. I was strong early game and barely won 35 to 39. We went all 5 rounds. My list was a chaos lord attached to a 5 man chosen. A sorcerer attached to a 5 man chosen. 2 5 man legionaries, which a gernade won me the game.5 man havoc, a vindicator, 1 unit of obliterators, and a venom crawler. I was accused if playing cagey for a chaos player. Maybe so that was my second game with chaos and my second game of 40k overall.
Dude congrats on the win! I dig your list too, for 1250pt I think that's great tbh. Also: playing cagey or not doesn't matter SO LONG AS YOU WIN. Custodes *want* to drag you into melee too so yeah, sounds like you did great 😜
I actually somewhat like using 1 big unit of Accursed in this list, due to the re-roll strat and to help screen your gunline a bit more. Granted, it's not getting much beyond that, but a re-roll to hit is superb for them and it's a unit that an opponent needs to focus on to deal with effectively, giving you a big chance to have all the accursed models remaining, giving you a big chance to hit back with both re-roll to hit and to wound, messing up your opponent's plans.
BIt late to the discussion I suppose but I think the units you may have overlooked are all the ones in Legends. Stuff like the leviathan Dreadnought, the Kratos, Blood Slaughterers etc.
Extremely! Especially if you give the Knight hazard stripes 😜 IWs are like, *the* most pragmatic & practical bastards out there so if they felt a Knight would give them an advantage they wouldn't even think about it. They love their vehicles, & especially firepower, too so yeah I think it'd make a perfect combo
If very in the middle on this detachment. it certainly has some power behind in by being stupid tanky. But it kinda falls short in the stratagem department. Honestly the only two that I would actually call good would be the 5+ fnp (which is insane) and the -2 to charge (which is also kinda insane). Only gaining rerolls after getting hit is most of the time meh. Only gaining 5+ crit after you've already done most of the work is meh. And the mortal wound strat is cute but is basically just grenades. I would've preferred a strat to shoot back after getting shot honestly. Vashtorr is insane in this detachment btw
Its how you get value from your strats against an opponent. My best mortal wound score off Brutal Attrition was 11 mortals. Against two units. Yeah I rolled super well for 12 dice, but it demolished those two units for daring to smack or tie up my termies. Pitiless cannonade finds value in redirecting fire. For what would have been your army shooting extra lascannon shots into the same target could now be redirected because you can shoot it with something less efficent and move on to another target for the same or exact value needed. You're definitely going to be using the Steadfast Determination and Seugecraft a lot so always have like 1 or 2 CP in the bank before passing turns. You gotta really get into the mindset of "being stubborn" and refusing to give up any advantage for an opponent. Which this det definitely brings to the table. The unique abilities really surprise opponents who think they can get ahead but really can turn around in a 180 pinning them down instead.
I actually have a tutorial vid that mentions where I got those! The pinned comment in that video should have the link I believe :) Let me know if you still have any trouble tho Oh yeah for some of the IW specific ones, there's a mod on the Workshop called Iron Cage that had them! Lemme know if you need the direct link or anything
@fatarchon Thanks! Ill give that a look. :) Also wonderful video I've a similar mind to yours to try and fit the lord discordant into an army somehow! I also really like the forgefiends and venomcrawlers so hopefully there's enough room to fit them all. 🤞
fought against necrons with the fell hammer siege host. it took him a entire turn to take down 3 terminates and his anti tank was ineffective because of the detachment rule. my opponent gave up turn 2. because he lost almost a third of his army in return. I think fell hammer suites me just fine.
You know.. Yeah he would be a good fit! I suppose they'd have the issue of wanting to be in melee but chances are they'd butcher whatever they got into combat with so it wouldn't be so big of deal You have the right idea of boosting the damage output. I'd still say Term Sorc is one of the best choices but combined with Abaddon that'd just pop even more
See I was thinking that too. I haven’t played it out yet but rolling a 10 man of Chosen with Abby giving them a 4 invul seems like a really tough thing to get rid of. Not to mention the advance/shoot/charge combo.
Went 2-1 at an RTT only losing by 1 point to WE. Strongest strat by far is the -2 charge. It was insanely strong. Brutal Attrition did tons of work as well. Of course the FNP was great. Never used point blank or Pitiless Abaddon 10 chosen Lord 10 termies 4x5 Legionaires 1 rhino 2x warp talons 2 x vindicator
Hey man, practice makes perfect :) Congrats on the great performance, just 1-point away that's razor thin! Yeah that -2 Charge can really mess up your opponent hah
FNP was great? You weren't cheating were you lol? It only works vs shooting, vs world eaters it shouldn't have been that useful unless they were rocking like a klos.
-Thoughts on chosen v legionnaires? I think at 130 for 5 chosen is a bit of a tough sell when legionaires is 80 for 5. The combo with a sorcerer is also a great buff to both units. - 1 blob of 10 termies+lord or 2x5 with a lord and termie sorcerer? I love death hex and also tried to make it work with Deceptors and the mind project enhancement. Comboing it with the ignore cover can indeed be huge with the predators. Would love to hear your thoughts
You bring up a VERY good point on Chosen, as yes these days I tend to skip over Chosen for Legos exactly because of what you're saying. That said, I think 3W infantry gain a bit of value in Fellhammer so they're still a valid option; moreso than some of the other detachments I would say. Really it comes down to dealer choice but if I were going for hyper optimized I'd probably lean towards Legos tho FWIW. I think where they might esp shine is with Fabius too, probably more than the Sorc but that's debatable For Termies, personally I'd run them MSU (w/characters). A brick is just too many eggs in one basket. If you fail the charge or have to footslog for 2 turns etc it might cost you the game! I need to do more playtesting with bricks but that'd be my thoughts atm If you go the multiple squad route I'd def consider DS one of them & footslog the other. Probably DS the sorcerer so he can get Death Hex on something juicy. I had exceptionally good results with my Chaos Lord + MSU Termies walking into the central objective with one of my recent games so I think I'm going to stick with that route
What do you think about a Terminator Sorcerer with Iron Artifice? A D6 attacks with Devastating Wounds and Anti Tank 4+, D3 wounds. Plus the Combi-weapon also has Devastating Wounds. Maybe not great but good enough to test out :).
You know, it's only 10pt & with how much utility to Term Sorc is bringing already that's not a terrible idea. So long it's not to the detriment of the rest of your list it's not so bad of Enhancement when you think about it! It's too bad it's infantry only because I'd totally consider it on a Disco Lord or DP if I could :P
@@fatarchon The list I'm considering is using 2 Term. Sorcerers with Warp Tracer(solo) and Iron Artifice(5m term). In theory you can do 40 devastating wounds on a vehicle with Iron Artifice but in average it should be 4-5. Also in theory he can fail the psyker test for AP, Dark Pact test and Hazardous so he needs a squad of termies to take the wounds for him.
Huh, you're starting to sway me towards Iron Artifice ever-so-slightly.. Yeah that's smart, I totally blanked that both of his shooting profiles had the Dev Wounds - for 10pt that's kind of a steal! Well damn dude I wish I had talked to you before recording this lol
Late to this, but plague marines are the cheapest T5 infantry chaos can field. (fellhammer makes even overcharged plasma wound on 4's) Kit them out as MSU melee trading pieces with a bonus blight launcher and just force continual over-investment of resources into them, the partybus convoy is just rolling on through.
Been thinking of using this detachment for my own CSM, and I was wondering for testing purposes, what's the models that you use for tabletop sim? I have had trouble locating some for use
I have a tutorial vid for TTS that mentions that actually! I believe the pinned comment (for that vid) should have a link with all the models. I think it's called the Battleforge Mod
Search for "iron cage 40k" on the Workshop & you should find it eventually! It was a scenario not an army list but had a boatload of custom IW & IF models in it :)
Yeah. I love it. Much more then Soulforge. Killed half my army from those malicious invoke contracts and 5 vehicles blowing up in the middle of my army. Then it didn't help that my opponent had a lot of anti tank. Definitely not worth it when even a LoS can die in a single turn. Fellhammer covers up a lot of weaknesses that basic CSM has. Players are nuts wanting more damage. We have lethal and sustain at will on every piece of our army. We don't need more damage. We need to cover up for our dark pact wounds. Then our vehicles are limited and or outdated compared to other armies. Fellhammer just brings them up to snuff to up to the same level. So you don't need those comp vehicles. I run my IWs with two defilers, for counterpunching (Plus they are still thee best unit to tank shock with "always maxing out on 6 mortal wounds for a single CP", then their counter offensive 0cp ability really makes opponents think twice abot trying to charge in.) Then a defiler has decent damage output from range so they cannot ignore all game. If you want simply more damage add a hellbrute, Warpsmith, or even as Archon put it a Termie Sorc for the added AP. I normally just use a Lprd Disco with warp tracer on his hellstalker cannon which is 48" which means you can hard focus down an enemy gunline anyways without putting yourself in threat range. Plus the Lord Disco acts as a great control piece for objectives and secondaries that can keep up with Venomcrawlers just fine with a pretty scary melee output. Keep in mind. This is also the detachment that Vashtorr benefits the most from. His Soulforge det does nothing for Vashtorr himself. He literally cannot use anything from Soulforge det because he's kissing a crucial keyword to allow all the strategems and even the det rule for invoke contract. Vashtorr can utilize literally everything in Fellhammer, besiders Brutal Attrition which is limited to infantry, not monsters. But yeab Vashtorr a better daemon prince with a great melee profile in his strike hammer a heavy flamer giving +1 to S for daemon vehicles. That's incredible. Then his hazardous aura reaply helps with the attrition based style warfare the det wants to force in opponents for some extra wounds if they want to "try to kill" Vashtorr who can get 5+ FNP. He's another counter puncher that just mocks the enemy to try something against him.
Damn dude, maybe you should be making some vids for IW 😜 Heh those are all fantastic points & I very much agree with you. So many people are getting hyper fixated on the fact they don't do extra damage but exactly like you're saying you don't NEED it + CSM already offer a plethora of ways to boost it up Love your list style too, esp Disco with Warp Tracer. Normally I do the flamer but I was def considering the cannon for the extra range. Hits on 2's anyways so meh One day GW will buff him to where he needs to be but until then it's up to us to make the most of him hah Oh yeah, loved your point on Vashtorr, I think that's a great call
Great stuff as usual! One q?: may you share the mathhammer behind idea that 5+ FNP is equivalent to 50% wounds boost? Seems to me if 1/3 incoming wounds are saved, it would be only eq to 33% boost.
Ofc! This is a really common one when first looking at FnP's. I didn't understand how that worked out at first either. I *think* I found the original article from Goonhammer on it but I also found someone posting the math on Reddit - I'll post both below for ya :) but yes 5+++ & especially 4+++'s are incredibly strong. Toss on -1AP, -1tH and/or -1tW & you're *really* cookin! Hell to be completely honest I still don't fully understand it I just know it's right hah. "Advanced" math was never my strong suit Mathematically, FNP (and armor saves) provide 6/(x-1) as much survivability. * 7+++ = 6/6 = 100% (does nothing) * 6+++ = 6/5 = 120% * 5+++ = 6/4 = 150% * 4+++ = 6/3 = 200% * 3+++ = 6/2 = 300% * 2+++ = 6/1 = 600% (6x as much survivability. Since you're only taking a damage on a 1 every time you take damage) www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-understanding-modifiers-and-re-rolls/
Good eye! He's hidden in the scenery I would've put him front & center but the model I found had a really funky looking base so it didn't fit in too well :P
Hm. Perhaps accursed cultists to rush up the field and make space for the terminators to DS in and just park on objectives, while big guns linger in the back?
I was considering Accursed Cultists too, heck maybe even Felgor Beastmen :P tbh I'd want to see the new point values before knowing for sure but yeah that's a decent strategy + I love Accursed so any excuse to bring them works for me lol I think you're on the right track, as tough as we are we either need something to take over obj or just double down on them
Heck even getting a single KLoS can be a pain, I guess I should've been more cognizant of that hah Either way, you've got a lot of options with 450pts. I'd definitely consider some more characters. For Fellhammer I'd prolly stick with their strengths & go gunline style so a Warp Smith + like x2 Preds + x1 Venomcrawler, something like that. The other simple option would be a brick of Termies & a Termie Lord But yeah mainly would be trying to replace the KLoS fire output with those points. Heck you could even have fun with it & bring a Great Unclean One or the sort
@@fatarchon would it fundamentally alter the list comp though? like the chaff and whatnot? or literally keep everything the same and then spread 450 points out on like tanks and a hellbrute
@mocrispy8160 truthfully it'd probably improve the list. Generally, spreading out your firepower is better than putting it into a single model so nah I don't think it'd invalidate it. Especially if you're still bringing x1 KLOS the gameplan shouldn't change all that much You cooould go heavier into the chaff / scoring but that list brings a good amount so I'd rather replace it's firepower than just bring more bodies!
Oblits are OG IW? Dude, in the hey day of the 3.5 codex, it was Basilisks that IW were known for and having 4 heavy slots. Oblits were cool and all, but werent what made IW broken.
You know what's funny, I recorded this like 3 times & originally I did bring up the Basilisk hah. Oblits were still strong tho! Memories fuzzy but most armies could only bring 1 whereas IW could bring multiples (infinite?). Basilisks were the best part tho, really wish they'd bring that back lol
@@fatarchon I actually listened to this while I was lifting earlier today. Haha I imagine iron warriors slaughtering tau to death metal and that’s all the motivation I needed
This is my problem with the detachment, the defenses aren't actually that good, you guys defending it are way overestimating it. They are way too constrained. Obviously both their defensives are only useful for shooting. But its also like, the FNP is one unit a shooting phase man, like don't get me wrong, its good, but one defensive strat vs shooting a turn? Just look at Art of War's recent game, obviously the list was meh, but they lost to a shooting list, why? Because he was making one unit a turn tanky, the others were still dying to shooting. So yeh, you throw away a bunch of okay rules to basically make one unit unkillable to shooting a turn. It pretty much forces the detachment to play around one big carry unit like a klos, but then you're prob not getting the negative to wound vs a bunch of stuff. So all this effort to get a fnp that only works on ranged when I could play world eaters, get a army wide FNP and have better mobility and damage. You guys are way overhyping this detachment. Its def being rated low by a bunch of top guys for a reason. It has way too many odd things, punishes your detachment rule by making tougher stuff not get the rule as often, and defensives that are too restricted. It really needed AoC or at least a way to use the FNP more than once.
All valid points, all I'll say is that the point of these videos is not only to show off the combos & tactics but also to make sure people who want to run them know the best options / how to get the most out of them. I make it a point when doing these to make sure I keep them in mind - some people don't care how good a certain legion is or not! Just wanted to make it clear because obviously you've got Renegade Raiders, Pactbound, Soulforged etc to pick from :) So yeah I was very much hyping these guys up but there's a reason for it lol. Granted I *do* think some people are being too harsh on them, there's ways to run them well imho! Then again I'm an IW fan boy but what can ya do 😜
Have any of you guys been running the new Fellhammer Siege Host yet!? I'd love to hear any of your experiences or if I missed a neat combo or build
PS: I had to record this like 3 times over lol. First time it got too late & then the 2nd time I didn't have my mic plugged in..... Good times
Edit: I did miss a combo! Sorcerer (or Termie sorc) with the Iron Artifice relic is actually good! 10pt to have his dev wounds pop off on 4+ vs vehicles is spicy with the d3 damage
I'm new to warhammer and plan on making an iron warriors themed army. This helped a lot.
They'd be especially good for newer players, super straightforward & forgiving compared to some of the others! Glad you found it useful man :)
Due to unlucky circumstances 10-man Chosen got stranded in the middle of the open board, they survived 3 rounds of Votann shooting
Pretty good
Ohoo, did you try the Sorcerer combo yet? Imagine how crazy tough that would be to chew through! Either way, hell yeah that's exactly how the detachment is meant to work so congrats on the game!
@@fatarchonI unfortunately failed the charge and got mole launchered into standing still, with the sorcerer that is
Getting resistance against shooting attacks in a mostly melee army has its own quality. 👌
This is the video I needed. I'm primarily an Iron Warriors collector and painter, lore appreciator, and I've been putting off my tabletop conquest until this codex. I know where to begin, but that's about it. So thanks so much.
You were the *exact* target for this video, can't tell you how great it is to see a comment like that! Best of luck on the table & you're always welcome to reach out if you have any questions along the way
@@fatarchon I really appreciate it!
@@fatarchonI do actually have a question if you don't mind. For Fellhammer, it's the question of MSU vs full 10 man squads concerning Legionaries, chosen and Terminators. I feel like for Brutal attrition, it's gonna be better to have 10 man squads in engagement of two MSU's. But what about Terminators and Chosen? And do we stick to 3 to 4 characters or go 5-6?
New to 40k and your videos have been a great help, ty!!!!
Glad it helped!! One of the main points of this channel is to help newbies so I love reading comments like yours. Appreciate the kind words 😎
I love your content man! Been following from the beginning! Super glad you’re posting more often!!! Great work can’t wait for the future with the channel!
Appreciate that man! Its a lot of fun doing all these (& getting to interact with the community) so yeah, expect to see more in the future :)
Id say a terminator lord + bastion plate + plus 10 terminators and a Sorcerer lord in Terminator armour + terminators seems to a be a mandatory start for writing a list for siege host.
I really want a new cataphractii sculpt so i can make a second block of terminators for my socerer to lead...
Sadly Bastion Plate cannot be used on Terminator Lords because they TECHNICALLY arent a “Chaos Lord” unit, they’re a “Chaos Lord In Terminator Armor” unit which excludes them from being able to use Bastion Plate
@kylefields4220 it's gutting like. Really hope they change it.
I'm an old timer so I get confused on that all the time. Lord used to be a keyword that practically all the HQs had :(
I’m really excited to play this detachment. My only problem is I feel bad putting a Sorcerer in my Iron Warriors list, even if he is in terminator armor lol
I played a 1250 point game as Fellhammer into Custodes. I was strong early game and barely won 35 to 39. We went all 5 rounds. My list was a chaos lord attached to a 5 man chosen. A sorcerer attached to a 5 man chosen. 2 5 man legionaries, which a gernade won me the game.5 man havoc, a vindicator, 1 unit of obliterators, and a venom crawler. I was accused if playing cagey for a chaos player. Maybe so that was my second game with chaos and my second game of 40k overall.
Dude congrats on the win! I dig your list too, for 1250pt I think that's great tbh.
Also: playing cagey or not doesn't matter SO LONG AS YOU WIN. Custodes *want* to drag you into melee too so yeah, sounds like you did great 😜
@fatarchon well Trajun did get me into melee and he ate. I managed to kill every but him in his unit.
I am looking forward to other CSM detachment overviews. I really enjoyed the dreadhost one as well.
Appreciate that Neo, yeah I'm hyped to do them too! I *might* have another one up tonight but we'll see :)
I actually somewhat like using 1 big unit of Accursed in this list, due to the re-roll strat and to help screen your gunline a bit more. Granted, it's not getting much beyond that, but a re-roll to hit is superb for them and it's a unit that an opponent needs to focus on to deal with effectively, giving you a big chance to have all the accursed models remaining, giving you a big chance to hit back with both re-roll to hit and to wound, messing up your opponent's plans.
BIt late to the discussion I suppose but I think the units you may have overlooked are all the ones in Legends. Stuff like the leviathan Dreadnought, the Kratos, Blood Slaughterers etc.
Thanks so much for this, do you think you'd be able to make the lists shareable by a URL?
You know, that's not a bad idea. I bet NewRecruit has that feature... I'll start looking into that going forward!
How thematic you think can one build an Iron Warriors (Fellhammer Siege Host) army with allied Chaos Knights(any variant)??
Extremely! Especially if you give the Knight hazard stripes 😜 IWs are like, *the* most pragmatic & practical bastards out there so if they felt a Knight would give them an advantage they wouldn't even think about it. They love their vehicles, & especially firepower, too so yeah I think it'd make a perfect combo
@@fatarchon Can you think of an example list for that?
Sure! I threw this togehrt pretty quick so it could use some optimizing, but it should show off one of the styles you could go for. Heavy firepower in the backline & then some chonky infantry to brawl over no man's land while the Bikers go off & do actions. FYI I didn't perfect all the loadout options fully 😜
++ Army Roster (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [1,995pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Battle Size: 2. Strike Force (2000 Point limit)
Detachment Choice: Fellhammer Siege-host
Show/Hide Options: Chaos Knights are visible, Nurgle Daemons are visible
+ Epic Hero +
Fabius Bile [85pts]
+ Character +
Chaos Lord [90pts]: Daemon hammer, Plasma pistol
Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [110pts]: Chaos Familiar, Combi-bolter, Warlord, Warp Tracer
+ Battleline +
Cultist Mob [50pts]
. Cultist Champion: Autopistol
. 9x Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon: 9x Autopistol, 9x Brutal assault weapon
Legionaries [90pts]: Chaos icon
. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Heavy melee weapon
. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon
. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon
. Legionary w/ other weapon: Reaper chaincannon
Legionaries [90pts]: Chaos icon
. Aspiring Champion: Boltgun, Heavy melee weapon
. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon
. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon
. Legionary w/ other weapon: Reaper chaincannon
+ Infantry +
Chaos Terminator Squad [185pts]
. 5x Accursed weapon and combi-bolter: 5x Accursed weapon, 5x Combi-bolter
+ Mounted +
Chaos Bikers [70pts]
. Biker Champion: Power fist
. Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword
. Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword
Chaos Bikers [70pts]
. Biker Champion: Power fist
. Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword
. Biker w/ meltagun: Astartes chainsword
+ Vehicle +
Chaos Vindicator [185pts]
Chaos Vindicator [185pts]
Venomcrawler [120pts]
Venomcrawler [120pts]
+ Dedicated Transport +
Chaos Rhino [75pts]
+ Allied Units +
Knight Despoiler [430pts]: Daemonbreath meltagun, Daemonbreath thermal cannon, Ruinspear rocket pod
. Battle cannon and heavy stubber
Nurglings [40pts]
. 3x Nurgling Swarm: 3x Diseased claws and teeth
++ Total: [1,995pts] ++
Created with BattleScribe (battlescribe.net)
If very in the middle on this detachment. it certainly has some power behind in by being stupid tanky. But it kinda falls short in the stratagem department. Honestly the only two that I would actually call good would be the 5+ fnp (which is insane) and the -2 to charge (which is also kinda insane). Only gaining rerolls after getting hit is most of the time meh. Only gaining 5+ crit after you've already done most of the work is meh. And the mortal wound strat is cute but is basically just grenades. I would've preferred a strat to shoot back after getting shot honestly.
Vashtorr is insane in this detachment btw
Its how you get value from your strats against an opponent.
My best mortal wound score off Brutal Attrition was 11 mortals. Against two units. Yeah I rolled super well for 12 dice, but it demolished those two units for daring to smack or tie up my termies.
Pitiless cannonade finds value in redirecting fire. For what would have been your army shooting extra lascannon shots into the same target could now be redirected because you can shoot it with something less efficent and move on to another target for the same or exact value needed.
You're definitely going to be using the Steadfast Determination and Seugecraft a lot so always have like 1 or 2 CP in the bank before passing turns.
You gotta really get into the mindset of "being stubborn" and refusing to give up any advantage for an opponent. Which this det definitely brings to the table. The unique abilities really surprise opponents who think they can get ahead but really can turn around in a 180 pinning them down instead.
Where did you get the models for TTS? They look so awesome!
I actually have a tutorial vid that mentions where I got those! The pinned comment in that video should have the link I believe :) Let me know if you still have any trouble tho
Oh yeah for some of the IW specific ones, there's a mod on the Workshop called Iron Cage that had them! Lemme know if you need the direct link or anything
@fatarchon Thanks! Ill give that a look. :) Also wonderful video I've a similar mind to yours to try and fit the lord discordant into an army somehow! I also really like the forgefiends and venomcrawlers so hopefully there's enough room to fit them all. 🤞
This is really useful for me now that I’ve wanted to get into iron warriors, I was wondering what mods you use for all the iron warrior models
fought against necrons with the fell hammer siege host. it took him a entire turn to take down 3 terminates and his anti tank was ineffective because of the detachment rule. my opponent gave up turn 2. because he lost almost a third of his army in return. I think fell hammer suites me just fine.
Congrats on the win! Necrons *can* be one of the harder armies to beat, especially with all their AP4 & whatnot so that's no small feat
Doesn't Abby with chosen really work with this? As it lacks damage as a detachment and Abby definitely makes up for that?
You know.. Yeah he would be a good fit! I suppose they'd have the issue of wanting to be in melee but chances are they'd butcher whatever they got into combat with so it wouldn't be so big of deal
You have the right idea of boosting the damage output. I'd still say Term Sorc is one of the best choices but combined with Abaddon that'd just pop even more
See I was thinking that too. I haven’t played it out yet but rolling a 10 man of Chosen with Abby giving them a 4 invul seems like a really tough thing to get rid of. Not to mention the advance/shoot/charge combo.
Went 2-1 at an RTT only losing by 1 point to WE.
Strongest strat by far is the -2 charge. It was insanely strong.
Brutal Attrition did tons of work as well.
Of course the FNP was great.
Never used point blank or Pitiless
Abaddon 10 chosen
Lord 10 termies
4x5 Legionaires
1 rhino
2x warp talons
2 x vindicator
Also I’m not a great player. So the toughness of the army helps a lot. And everything still slaps like a mug.
Hey man, practice makes perfect :) Congrats on the great performance, just 1-point away that's razor thin!
Yeah that -2 Charge can really mess up your opponent hah
FNP was great? You weren't cheating were you lol? It only works vs shooting, vs world eaters it shouldn't have been that useful unless they were rocking like a klos.
Hey now! He went 2-1 & lost to the WEs so I wouldn't assume he got mixed up on that one :P
It did okay into WE as he had a lord of skulls. But it was great into everything else. Abaddon was great into WE as he acted as a deterrent.
-Thoughts on chosen v legionnaires? I think at 130 for 5 chosen is a bit of a tough sell when legionaires is 80 for 5. The combo with a sorcerer is also a great buff to both units.
- 1 blob of 10 termies+lord or 2x5 with a lord and termie sorcerer? I love death hex and also tried to make it work with Deceptors and the mind project enhancement. Comboing it with the ignore cover can indeed be huge with the predators.
Would love to hear your thoughts
- And for the termies, footslog or deepstrike?
You bring up a VERY good point on Chosen, as yes these days I tend to skip over Chosen for Legos exactly because of what you're saying. That said, I think 3W infantry gain a bit of value in Fellhammer so they're still a valid option; moreso than some of the other detachments I would say. Really it comes down to dealer choice but if I were going for hyper optimized I'd probably lean towards Legos tho FWIW. I think where they might esp shine is with Fabius too, probably more than the Sorc but that's debatable
For Termies, personally I'd run them MSU (w/characters). A brick is just too many eggs in one basket. If you fail the charge or have to footslog for 2 turns etc it might cost you the game! I need to do more playtesting with bricks but that'd be my thoughts atm
If you go the multiple squad route I'd def consider DS one of them & footslog the other. Probably DS the sorcerer so he can get Death Hex on something juicy. I had exceptionally good results with my Chaos Lord + MSU Termies walking into the central objective with one of my recent games so I think I'm going to stick with that route
What do you think about a Terminator Sorcerer with Iron Artifice?
A D6 attacks with Devastating Wounds and Anti Tank 4+, D3 wounds. Plus the Combi-weapon also has Devastating Wounds.
Maybe not great but good enough to test out :).
You know, it's only 10pt & with how much utility to Term Sorc is bringing already that's not a terrible idea. So long it's not to the detriment of the rest of your list it's not so bad of Enhancement when you think about it! It's too bad it's infantry only because I'd totally consider it on a Disco Lord or DP if I could :P
@@fatarchon The list I'm considering is using 2 Term. Sorcerers with Warp Tracer(solo) and Iron Artifice(5m term).
In theory you can do 40 devastating wounds on a vehicle with Iron Artifice but in average it should be 4-5.
Also in theory he can fail the psyker test for AP, Dark Pact test and Hazardous so he needs a squad of termies to take the wounds for him.
Huh, you're starting to sway me towards Iron Artifice ever-so-slightly.. Yeah that's smart, I totally blanked that both of his shooting profiles had the Dev Wounds - for 10pt that's kind of a steal! Well damn dude I wish I had talked to you before recording this lol
Late to this, but plague marines are the cheapest T5 infantry chaos can field. (fellhammer makes even overcharged plasma wound on 4's) Kit them out as MSU melee trading pieces with a bonus blight launcher and just force continual over-investment of resources into them, the partybus convoy is just rolling on through.
Out of curiosity what would you recommend for a 1k list?
I wrote up a quick list for you :) Basically a core of shooting + a decent chunk of fast / resilient dudes to hold onto objectives
Def a lot of routes you could go tho, Venomcrawlers make great picks for the objective takers or bring some jump infantry etc. Terminators would fit the detachment great too but they're kinda spendy so I went cheap with this one heh. Same reason I didn't bring Chosen tho they'd love the Sorcerer for -1tH
I'd probably combine 2 of the Legos into a brick too
Army Roster (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [995pts]
Battle Size: 1. Incursion (1000 Point limit)
Detachment Choice: Fellhammer Siege-host
+ Character +
Sorcerer [75pts]: Ironbound Enmity, Warlord
Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [110pts]: Combi-bolter, Warp Tracer
+ Battleline +
Cultist Mob [50pts]
. Cultist Champion: Autopistol
. 9x Cultist w/ autopistol and brutal assault weapon: 9x Autopistol, 9x Brutal assault weapon
Legionaries [80pts]: Chaos icon
. Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol
. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon
. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon
. Legionary w/ other weapon: Lascannon
Legionaries [80pts]: Chaos icon
. Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol
. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon
. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon
. Legionary w/ other weapon: Lascannon
Legionaries [80pts]: Chaos icon
. Aspiring Champion: Heavy melee weapon, Plasma pistol
. 2x Legionary w/ chainsword: 2x Astartes chainsword, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Close combat weapon
. Legionary w/ heavy melee weapon
. Legionary w/ other weapon: Lascannon
+ Infantry +
Havocs [120pts]
. Havoc Champion: Meltagun, Power fist
. 4x Havoc w/ lascannon: 4x Havoc lascannon
+ Mounted +
Chaos Bikers [70pts]: Chaos icon
. Biker Champion: Power fist
. Biker w/ meltagun: Bolt pistol
. Biker w/ meltagun: Bolt pistol
Chaos Bikers [70pts]: Chaos icon
. Biker Champion: Power fist
. Biker w/ meltagun: Bolt pistol
. Biker w/ meltagun: Bolt pistol
+ Vehicle +
Chaos Predator Destructor [130pts]: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher
. 2 lascannons
Chaos Predator Destructor [130pts]: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher
. 2 lascannons
++ Total: [995pts] ++
Thanks mate really appreciate the list it helps me a lot!!!!!
Been thinking of using this detachment for my own CSM, and I was wondering for testing purposes, what's the models that you use for tabletop sim? I have had trouble locating some for use
I have a tutorial vid for TTS that mentions that actually! I believe the pinned comment (for that vid) should have a link with all the models. I think it's called the Battleforge Mod
@@fatarchon Sweet! Thank you!
Hello! Glad to see someone else is enjoying the IW. Where do you get your IW models for TTS? I’ve been trying to find some for so long
Search for "iron cage 40k" on the Workshop & you should find it eventually! It was a scenario not an army list but had a boatload of custom IW & IF models in it :)
@@fatarchon thank you! Wasn’t expecting such a quick response XD
No problem at all! lemme know if you have trouble finding it & I'm sure I can dig up the link for ya
Yeah. I love it. Much more then Soulforge. Killed half my army from those malicious invoke contracts and 5 vehicles blowing up in the middle of my army. Then it didn't help that my opponent had a lot of anti tank. Definitely not worth it when even a LoS can die in a single turn.
Fellhammer covers up a lot of weaknesses that basic CSM has. Players are nuts wanting more damage. We have lethal and sustain at will on every piece of our army. We don't need more damage. We need to cover up for our dark pact wounds. Then our vehicles are limited and or outdated compared to other armies. Fellhammer just brings them up to snuff to up to the same level. So you don't need those comp vehicles.
I run my IWs with two defilers, for counterpunching (Plus they are still thee best unit to tank shock with "always maxing out on 6 mortal wounds for a single CP", then their counter offensive 0cp ability really makes opponents think twice abot trying to charge in.) Then a defiler has decent damage output from range so they cannot ignore all game.
If you want simply more damage add a hellbrute, Warpsmith, or even as Archon put it a Termie Sorc for the added AP.
I normally just use a Lprd Disco with warp tracer on his hellstalker cannon which is 48" which means you can hard focus down an enemy gunline anyways without putting yourself in threat range. Plus the Lord Disco acts as a great control piece for objectives and secondaries that can keep up with Venomcrawlers just fine with a pretty scary melee output.
Keep in mind. This is also the detachment that Vashtorr benefits the most from. His Soulforge det does nothing for Vashtorr himself. He literally cannot use anything from Soulforge det because he's kissing a crucial keyword to allow all the strategems and even the det rule for invoke contract.
Vashtorr can utilize literally everything in Fellhammer, besiders Brutal Attrition which is limited to infantry, not monsters. But yeab Vashtorr a better daemon prince with a great melee profile in his strike hammer a heavy flamer giving +1 to S for daemon vehicles.
That's incredible. Then his hazardous aura reaply helps with the attrition based style warfare the det wants to force in opponents for some extra wounds if they want to "try to kill" Vashtorr who can get 5+ FNP. He's another counter puncher that just mocks the enemy to try something against him.
Damn dude, maybe you should be making some vids for IW 😜 Heh those are all fantastic points & I very much agree with you. So many people are getting hyper fixated on the fact they don't do extra damage but exactly like you're saying you don't NEED it + CSM already offer a plethora of ways to boost it up
Love your list style too, esp Disco with Warp Tracer. Normally I do the flamer but I was def considering the cannon for the extra range. Hits on 2's anyways so meh
One day GW will buff him to where he needs to be but until then it's up to us to make the most of him hah
Oh yeah, loved your point on Vashtorr, I think that's a great call
Great stuff as usual!
One q?: may you share the mathhammer behind idea that 5+ FNP is equivalent to 50% wounds boost? Seems to me if 1/3 incoming wounds are saved, it would be only eq to 33% boost.
Ofc! This is a really common one when first looking at FnP's. I didn't understand how that worked out at first either. I *think* I found the original article from Goonhammer on it but I also found someone posting the math on Reddit - I'll post both below for ya :) but yes 5+++ & especially 4+++'s are incredibly strong. Toss on -1AP, -1tH and/or -1tW & you're *really* cookin!
Hell to be completely honest I still don't fully understand it I just know it's right hah. "Advanced" math was never my strong suit
Mathematically, FNP (and armor saves) provide 6/(x-1) as much survivability.
* 7+++ = 6/6 = 100% (does nothing)
* 6+++ = 6/5 = 120%
* 5+++ = 6/4 = 150%
* 4+++ = 6/3 = 200%
* 3+++ = 6/2 = 300%
* 2+++ = 6/1 = 600% (6x as much survivability. Since you're only taking a damage on a 1 every time you take damage)
www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-understanding-modifiers-and-re-rolls/
They survive 1/3 of the damage, which means they now take 2/3 of the damage. Hence they are 100/(2/3) = 150% tankier.
Oh dang that makes it way more comprehensible hah
Oops - I see it now. Thanks guys.
do a thorough review and army list ideas for Death Guard >:)
I've been meaning to do an update to all my original Index reviews so I'll see what I can make happen!
Amazing once again
No u
Is there a perturabo in the back?
Good eye! He's hidden in the scenery
I would've put him front & center but the model I found had a really funky looking base so it didn't fit in too well :P
Hey great content mate! Any chance of doing one of these for the crazy cultist / traitor guard lunatics?! 😝
Oh you know it! Chaos Cults are my jam :P
@@fatarchon nice one!
Hm. Perhaps accursed cultists to rush up the field and make space for the terminators to DS in and just park on objectives, while big guns linger in the back?
I was considering Accursed Cultists too, heck maybe even Felgor Beastmen :P tbh I'd want to see the new point values before knowing for sure but yeah that's a decent strategy + I love Accursed so any excuse to bring them works for me lol
I think you're on the right track, as tough as we are we either need something to take over obj or just double down on them
What would you change if you were to run a solo Lord of Skulls list? I can't be buying 2 of those
Heck even getting a single KLoS can be a pain, I guess I should've been more cognizant of that hah
Either way, you've got a lot of options with 450pts. I'd definitely consider some more characters. For Fellhammer I'd prolly stick with their strengths & go gunline style so a Warp Smith + like x2 Preds + x1 Venomcrawler, something like that. The other simple option would be a brick of Termies & a Termie Lord
But yeah mainly would be trying to replace the KLoS fire output with those points. Heck you could even have fun with it & bring a Great Unclean One or the sort
@@fatarchon would it fundamentally alter the list comp though? like the chaff and whatnot? or literally keep everything the same and then spread 450 points out on like tanks and a hellbrute
@mocrispy8160 truthfully it'd probably improve the list. Generally, spreading out your firepower is better than putting it into a single model so nah I don't think it'd invalidate it. Especially if you're still bringing x1 KLOS the gameplan shouldn't change all that much
You cooould go heavier into the chaff / scoring but that list brings a good amount so I'd rather replace it's firepower than just bring more bodies!
Bro, I NEEED your renegade raiders version of this please
Soon my dog of war
@@fatarchon awoòooooòoooo!!!
biggest struggle is actually finding a lord of skulls for fun list lmfao
Lol touche :P There's always TTS mwhaha
I didn't know this, but you're right. Had no idea they were so scarce. I put that one off until "some day". I hope they get back to availability soon.
bastion plate does not work on termi lord as per the app
Oblits are OG IW? Dude, in the hey day of the 3.5 codex, it was Basilisks that IW were known for and having 4 heavy slots. Oblits were cool and all, but werent what made IW broken.
You know what's funny, I recorded this like 3 times & originally I did bring up the Basilisk hah. Oblits were still strong tho! Memories fuzzy but most armies could only bring 1 whereas IW could bring multiples (infinite?). Basilisks were the best part tho, really wish they'd bring that back lol
Hi 🤓
Surp friendo lol
@@fatarchon I actually listened to this while I was lifting earlier today. Haha I imagine iron warriors slaughtering tau to death metal and that’s all the motivation I needed
That is by far the most hardcore / badass comment I've ever received lmao, hell yes
This is my problem with the detachment, the defenses aren't actually that good, you guys defending it are way overestimating it. They are way too constrained. Obviously both their defensives are only useful for shooting. But its also like, the FNP is one unit a shooting phase man, like don't get me wrong, its good, but one defensive strat vs shooting a turn? Just look at Art of War's recent game, obviously the list was meh, but they lost to a shooting list, why? Because he was making one unit a turn tanky, the others were still dying to shooting. So yeh, you throw away a bunch of okay rules to basically make one unit unkillable to shooting a turn. It pretty much forces the detachment to play around one big carry unit like a klos, but then you're prob not getting the negative to wound vs a bunch of stuff. So all this effort to get a fnp that only works on ranged when I could play world eaters, get a army wide FNP and have better mobility and damage. You guys are way overhyping this detachment. Its def being rated low by a bunch of top guys for a reason. It has way too many odd things, punishes your detachment rule by making tougher stuff not get the rule as often, and defensives that are too restricted. It really needed AoC or at least a way to use the FNP more than once.
All valid points, all I'll say is that the point of these videos is not only to show off the combos & tactics but also to make sure people who want to run them know the best options / how to get the most out of them. I make it a point when doing these to make sure I keep them in mind - some people don't care how good a certain legion is or not! Just wanted to make it clear because obviously you've got Renegade Raiders, Pactbound, Soulforged etc to pick from :) So yeah I was very much hyping these guys up but there's a reason for it lol. Granted I *do* think some people are being too harsh on them, there's ways to run them well imho! Then again I'm an IW fan boy but what can ya do 😜