Also as far as marks go, I had been running mostly Tzeentch for my shooting units, aside from the forgefiend or perhaps landraider, reason being that I was finding that on average I didn't feel I was wounding enough, extra hits are great if you can convert the hits to wounds, so I find it feels more efficient to just bypass the wound phase 33% of the time, and also makes most shooty units threaten everything.
agreed I wonder if they got rid of firearm cultists, before people realised that 20 man blobs with 2xheavy stubbers, 2 flamers, 2 grenade launchers auto-wounding on 5s was abit broken. I stripped half the wounds off a repulsor the other day with just a 10 man squad of autoguns.
Today we're looking at an "oldie but a goldie", the Word Bearers! AKA Pactbound Zealots! I wouldn't be surprised if as we all get more familiar with the new codex these guys start to make a resurgence. They have some stiff competition from the likes of Renegade Raiders & Soulforged Warpack but when you consider how busted 5+ Sustained Hits across your entire army can be... it gets a little wild :) What do you guys think though? Am I overhyping them or are they the real deal?
Word Bearers are my bread and butter, but they did get a raw deal. I’m looking at DPW mos elixir, CL MU, MoE MoK burning blood, rhino MoN, 1x5 chosen MU, 1x5 chosen MoK, 1x cultist MoN, 1x5 possessed, 1x10 WT MoS, 2x Venom MoT, 1x Obliterators MU, 1xFF MU, 1xFF MoN, 1xHelbrute MoN. Helbrute with 2 melee waste his ability and range on himself.
I sympathize with the loss of lore connection. I am a hardcore Iron Warrior and I would hate if that had happened to my legion. But I think you could still field a kick-ass Word Bearers army through your modeling, painting and list building. I bet Stu Black and his henchmen will get the message they screwed up. The jump lord backlash was pretty huge two years ago because all the Night Lords out there were outraged.
I’m a fan of the higher reward higher risk. As if you fail the dark pact then you gain no Buff whatsoever but +5 sustained or lethals is incredibly powerful, especially on units that have a high amount of attacks or shooting. While I do think this detachment will do a good job in tournaments, it really feels fun in casual games as this detachment can have some hilarious outcomes. I remember playing a game against a friend and I was using scanned his possessed I believe. Having them make 30 saves not including the devastating wounds was a good laugh.
Ya I have no issue with them balancing out the Dark Pacts. Sooo many people (myself included!) forget that rule constantly because we'd get distracted by the dice rolls :P For good laughs I love the Drukhari Archon with his temporary 2++. I've had more hilarious moments than I could count either failing the very first throw (classic) or tanking like an entire turns worth of shooting lol
You can return 3W to anything, so you'd be able to heal a vehicle / monster no problem - to bring one back to life they'd have to be part of a unit (& Tzeentch) though. Once a unit is destroyed you can't use a strat on it unless the strat says otherwise - I wish we could bring a Forgefiend back to life!!
As someone who just started getting back to 40k recently, Pactbound Zealots are incredibly fun and easy as there are less moving pieces around. I can focus on other aspects of the game more.
Ive always run cultists with MoT, they’ll consistently chip wounds off targets. With the codex out I’ll be swapping to MoK to keep a high volume of results.
Yeah man Pactbound is just all around great, makes literally any unit at least serviceable. I think MoK is the route to go with Cultist for sure, plinking wounds off even a Knight sounds awesome to me lol
I love Pactbound Zealots, but I played Red Corsairs in 8th-9th Edition, so I'm switching mainly to Renegades and Raiders. Gonna miss my marks of chaos, but what can I say? Assault weapons and those battle tactics in R&R just call to me.
amazing breakdown, ur vids are great! sorry bunch of q's from a noob: ur possessed math - 22 wounds avg payload at 41:17 - i assume that's running a brick and not msu??
Glad you dug them, thank you very much!! I'm always happy to answer any questions so feel free to shoot me any others you come up with. As for the Possessed.. Yup! For the "full" ~22D that'd be using a brick of them in a Pactbound Zealots detachment + marked as Undivided. That'd give you 40 Attacks, re-roll 1's, exploding 6's, re-roll all wounds (w/the strategem). Depending on the to-wound & armor save you can fish for 6's but either way it's a RIDICULOUS amount of mortal wounds into any target in the game That said even MSU & in other Legions they still pull their weight. 125pt for T6 15W on top of 20A 2D is pretty universal. That 9" move is pretty clutch too. Anytime you're able to find a way to re-roll their wounds they start to get extra exceptional though!
@Fat Archon thoughts on Pact: CL MU&MoE MoK amulet blood with 5 chosenMU& 5 Legionaries MoK in Rhino. 1x10 possessed MU, 2 VC M?, 2x5 WT MoS, 2x10 Cultist MoN, 2xVindic MU/MoN, 1xFF MU, Warpsmith MU, Helbrute MoN backfield front Vindicators 24”. WS behind to heal and give one vehicle a 2+. FF behind for 36”, Helbrute in the side of all to give 5+ sus/leth. Cultists backfield. Rhino VC possessed mid side control. WT’s either DS or counter mid attacks
Legit it looks good to me! The MoK MoE + Legos you could consider MoS on instead but I know the Khorne MoE slices pretty good & with the Relic you'd get even more value so yeah that works The VC I'd run Nurgle probably. Tzeentch is the other route for anti-everything though + it's fun to sneak Tzeentch in for a change hah Thats pretty similar to some of the lists I'd run, a really strong core of shooting & then some hyper deadly melee. I suppose maybe combine the Warp Talons so you have an ULTRA killy brick? MSU is valid too for spreading the board tho
@christianpeck2568 dude we almost jinxed it lmfao, my software started bugging out hardcore when I tried to export it. Luckily it FINALLY worked after a few hours of fiddling. Soon my dog of war!
Hello! Fairly new into 40K here! Super thanks for your videos they are really helpful about how to think about list etc. There is however some things I really don’t get: 1. If I bring some accursed cultists with a commune, do they loose scout? 2. I I do my terminators nurgle, and do a dark pact with the reaper autocannon(has sustained 1) does that give it sustained 2 on fives and sixes? Again super thanks for great content.
Hey there! Glad you're digging the content & that's awesome to hear it's getting you thinking through your list. For your questions though: Every model in the squad has to have Scouts so yeah they'd lose it sadly. Edit: as a heads up Dedicated Transports (Rhino) can gain Scouts of every model inside has the keyword though. But that still wouldn't help the Dark Commune :P Sustained doesn't stack so you'd only get 1 extra hit even if there's multiple sources of it. Basically whatever the highest value is becomes *the* value. Terminators aren't a great example but a lot of times when you already have sustained you want to pick Lethal cause then you'd get both FYI! You'd also get them both on 5's with Pactbound. Probably not worth it on Terminators but other units it might come up I'm big on helping newer players so if you have any other questions you're always welcome to reach out
also, thematically i'd love to get all the marks in my army.. i know u love the termie sorcerer - kind of like the idea of giving him the eye of tzeentch to help recoup CP in a squad of terminators who he can skinshift. interested if u think that's just way too expensive to justify itself. if so could a sorcerer fly solo in a PZ list?
I'd recommend magnetising the arms on the chaos lord / sorcerer (3x1mm). Mark of khorne auto wounds with terminator dark pacts get rerolls to hit for your auto wounds comes to around 55% auto wounds for the terminators. Plus 3+ fights on death strat for the unit as your free stat in your opponents turn and you can use the free strat for a reroll for charge. Gives half the benefit of the sorcerer.
I like a 5 man Terminator unit with a Sorc leading with Mark of Tzeentch. Lots of Storm Bolter shots for lethal deep striking. And Being able to bring back a Terminator is strong
Great video. Is there a point of giving termie sorcerer a termie bodyguard? I really want to stuff in terminators into a list, but it seems that people see their value only in the Iron Warriors lists now
Yeah it has its value, helps keep him alive longer which is a big deal considering how valuable he is. Otw he's usually a one time use sort of thing as most people target him after he comes down
So running predators with mk tzeentch with heavy bolters is cute, and does proc both lethal and sustained on 5s, though obviously the main gun only gains lethals on 5s. Ive run this a few times to limited success, while lethal and sustained on 5s is great, the problem is its on anti inf weapons, which they work AMAZING on, but if you try to threaten say a vehicle, most targets will have cover are rock AoC, meaning the heavy bolters go to ap0, which does basically nothing to anything with a 2+ save, which is why i run destructors with las cannons, that way there is a good enough amount of weapons profiles variations that truly threaten everything.
I had a feeling there was a reason no one runs them. Might be really handy for people with a small collection IF they need anti-everything I guess. But yeah for Predators I'm usually a Nurgle > all sort of guy :P
I keep thinking I want to start an Ork channel, focused on kitbashing and airbrushing but I don’t even know where to start. I haven’t played in a couple years but I paint every night. I should be recording it. I have successfully magnetized 2 battlewagons, and I did it without guides. Can’t find any good guides on it so I thought I should make my own. Would give me an excuse to buy a 3rd battlewagon too
Dude if that's something you're interested in there zero harm in trying it. I started this channel like ~5yrs ago & my first handful of vids was just me painting or building models with my phone propped up against the wall towards my table lol. It was great practice & I still got a few fans who'd watch all my vids & chat with me etc Even if you didn't post them or didn't think they were that good or whatever it'd be great practice My big tip would be to post the vids on Reddit / social media to find those first few fans. Obv don't spam them or nothing but that was my 'secret sauce' I'd say
final one i promise! does the helbrute's aura really confer 5+ sustained AND lethal to other units within range? (48:09) i've seen some discussions that assume it as 2 x 5+ but no clear explanation as to why.. to me 'both abilities conferred by that pact' reads like sustained + lethal popping on 6's per the dark pact itself. then the secondary packbound zealots benefit of 5+ can only be obtained once according to the single mark the unit has.
It does indeed! If you look at the wording for the Marks of Chaos, it says ~"you score a **critical hit** on a 5+". With the Helbrute you suddenly get both the Lethals & Sustained, so any 5+ is a critical hit meaning they both go off. Normally you choose which kind of critical's you're rolling for but with the Helbrute you're getting both. Hope that makes sense!
It does, but there is one thing you need to be careful of: Lethal Hits actually has an almost anti-synergy with Devastating Wounds, because if you auto-wound something, it means you can't make the wound roll and get a Critical Wound (and thus activate Devastating Wounds). RAW, you HAVE to take both Sustained 1 and Lethal Hits when you make a Dark Pact within 6'' of the Brute, so pick the units you want next to him carefully.
I’m planning to stick mostly with this detachment to start with, running 6 squads of legionnaires as they have that icon to ensure sustained 5’s most of the time
My personal theory about the Lord Discordant is that GW has the sales figures from 8th and 9th so they know just how many people own model. They made him less attractive in 10th to drive players towards alternatives they'll have to purchase. I've got one unit of Warp Talons and I don't want any more. Tricksy plays aren't really my style, but if I do decide, I'll make do with the one, I think.
I think you're probably spot on for the Lord Disco. Once they sell enough Warp Talons they'll be next on the chopping block I'm sure :P I will say it might still be worth picking up another kit, not so much for more Talons but Raptors! For only 85pt I've had those little guys win me so many games hah. If you're into magnetizing you can get even more value out of em but obv that's not for everyone :) You've always had great input on everything RSB, I love getting to read some of your comments so tyvm for sharing all your thoughts
@@fatarchon absolutely! And thank you for saying so. I'll be around for what comes next, I think you've got a great angle for a TH-cam channel here and a great community to build upon. We're happy to have you. As far as the Raptors go, I have been considering them. I approach my models in good faith thinking "okay. GW is saying these are their models for ALL legions. Which means they are also Iron Warriors. How do I make these models believable?" That's a challenge I really enjoy, especially with only a handful of resources. Thanks again, Sellers
You get Dark Pacts effect even if you fail Ld test. Read the rule again. Yes, now you take the test before shooting\fighting, but you get the effect regardless of the Ld check
You’re both right and wrong. If you fail the Ld test, you’re right in that the unit still benefits from Dark Pacts the army rule. However, if you read the Pactbound Zealots detachment rule, it specifically states the benefit is only gained if the Ld test is passed (e.g. sustained hits on 5+). If a unit fails the Ld test, they won’t get sustained on 5+ but would still get Dark Pacts on 6’s.
@@RegensDominor isn't that what I say at 08:48? "you still get your 6+ Dark Pacts" 😜 Idk it's been awhile since I recorded this so maybe I did say it weird lol
Any reason not to just run 2 FF instead of the vindicator, FF shoots so much better into most stuff and is only 15 points more, not as tough but with the invulnerable probably not a lot in it
Truthfully that comes down to playstyle I'd say, I loooove cheapish units when I can take them but you're absolutely right the FF is just as good if not debateably better in a lot of cases. Really depends on the local meta & that kind of stuff. Vindi edges it out vs tanks or big stuff but FF edges it out vs elites or mid/low toughness targets I'm sure the fact the FF has been overcosted the last ~however many months played into it too hah. Still need to get used to it not being as overcosted :P
It's amusing that Pactbound Zealots are the only one that can take marks and are considered the "Word Bearers" detachment. Especially considering the Word Bearers are all Undivided, and only have some leaning towards one chaos god without excluding the others....
That's a fair point, it would've been kinda cool to have a detachment entirely devoted to Undivided. I suppose Iron Warriors sorta fill that niche in a way but I get what you're saying :P I'm still mainly bummed they don't buff Daemons at all, wtf GW?!
Hmmm, probably Undivided for the re-rolls. Slaanesh isn't bad either for exploding 5's the only "issue" is they already have Adv & Charge so the strategem isn't as useful (in a sense that saves you a CP though). So yeah I'd say Undivided or Slaanesh! With Khorne coming in 3rd :P
@@fatarchon thanks man! Undivided seems useful because I’m running my chosen with 2 characters too; Chaos Lord and MOE. The MOE can grant full rerolls to wound potentially which could be tasty or if all else fails, the undivided strat. Plenty of ways to gain rerolls!
Huh, what about havocs running tzeentch and led by a character? It'd be mainly ahooting, but you WANT Tzeentch on havocs... Also, I think a potential thing you missed is the MASSIVE buff pactbound gives Cult Marines. Plague Marines, Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines and Rubric Marines all get Dark Pacts instead of their godbound codex's rule, and come with the god-keyword for Pactbound Zealots. Khorne Berserkers? Lethal 5+, and you can lead them with a MoE with the talisman or a chaos lord, who can grow out of control with the permanent buff stratagem. Pile them all into a rhino and same-day ship that box of carnage into something tanky. All those berserker attacks with lethal 5s is a nightmare! It STILL bothers me that Nurgle and Tzeentch have the wrong bonus effects. Death Guard leans like crazy into Lethal Hits and Tzeentch's flames should procc sustained because warpfire spreads even if it's not a "flameable" target. Obvious this has no bearing on tournaments, but what's your opinion on homebrew crunch?
Despite my channel maaainly revolving around comp play I'm huge into garagehammer & imo the point of that is FUN > all. I can't stand when people bring a comp attitude or like, a tournament list to casual games so yeah man - so long as your opponent is fine with it I think it's fine. Especially if you make fluffy rules for your dudes (& obv don't go overboard..) The Tzeentch Havocs is clever btw, esp if you go with Chaincannons for the lethal. I've been looking for ways to get use out of a Warpsmith attached to Havocs & that might just be the best ver I've seen so far
@fatarchon oh the balancing is the rewarding part of crunch homebrew. You have to cook it just right to be flavorful, but not broken. After all, if it's broken who will play with it? And you can make such cool stuff. Some of my favorite pieces are the "Cindaros" destroyer line which are centipede-taur necron destroyers with heat cannons, "Excoriators" or Immortal/Lychguard flayed ones, and a Tau "Drone Factory" tank that can build drones for itself or nearby allies each command phase.
@@Horrorking98 I'm PRETTY sure their faction rule is replaced with dark pacts, and thus would benefit from marks of chaos? I'll dig after work. Hard to do on a phone.
@johnj.spurgin7037 unfortunately Horror is right :( They gain the Heretic Astartes keyword but still don't have Dark Pacts on their datasheets. But, maybe that's room to homebrew something unique for them?
I'm a word bearer player and i hate this detatchment. Seeing the "Word Bearer" themed detatchment be mostly used for Abaddon forgefiend/vidicator shooting castle is a pretty obvious design flop when it comes to theme.
That is a a very (very!) fair criticism. I'm hype in this video mainly because of their strength & association with WB but you're absolutely right that it drops the ball on the fluff side of things. The fact it doesn't boost Daemons at all is.. Baffling. Heck even just "you can bring 50% Daemon allies" would've been such a flavor win. I totally understand why you're upset & sadly there's not really a different detachment that works all that well for them :( Chaos Cults sorta but that's for converts not Daemons or Possessed
@@fatarchon Chaos cult is such a cool theme and aligns with WB and their apostles really well. If I had my way I would have settled with 7 detatchments and merged Chaos Cult and Pactbound together so that chaos cult isn't as insanely hordy and weak and pactbound isn't as flavourless. Pacts and sacrificing cultist in order to boost your other units and extra effects for daemonkin was what my dream scenario looked like for a WB detatchment.
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I cannot express enough how much I appreciate your content. great work and very inspiring
Also as far as marks go, I had been running mostly Tzeentch for my shooting units, aside from the forgefiend or perhaps landraider, reason being that I was finding that on average I didn't feel I was wounding enough, extra hits are great if you can convert the hits to wounds, so I find it feels more efficient to just bypass the wound phase 33% of the time, and also makes most shooty units threaten everything.
I had a squad of Tzeench cultists kill Belakor
agreed I wonder if they got rid of firearm cultists, before people realised that 20 man blobs with 2xheavy stubbers, 2 flamers, 2 grenade launchers auto-wounding on 5s was abit broken. I stripped half the wounds off a repulsor the other day with just a 10 man squad of autoguns.
Today we're looking at an "oldie but a goldie", the Word Bearers! AKA Pactbound Zealots! I wouldn't be surprised if as we all get more familiar with the new codex these guys start to make a resurgence. They have some stiff competition from the likes of Renegade Raiders & Soulforged Warpack but when you consider how busted 5+ Sustained Hits across your entire army can be... it gets a little wild :) What do you guys think though? Am I overhyping them or are they the real deal?
Word Bearers are my bread and butter, but they did get a raw deal. I’m looking at DPW mos elixir, CL MU, MoE MoK burning blood, rhino MoN, 1x5 chosen MU, 1x5 chosen MoK, 1x cultist MoN, 1x5 possessed, 1x10 WT MoS, 2x Venom MoT, 1x Obliterators MU, 1xFF MU, 1xFF MoN, 1xHelbrute MoN. Helbrute with 2 melee waste his ability and range on himself.
I sympathize with the loss of lore connection. I am a hardcore Iron Warrior and I would hate if that had happened to my legion. But I think you could still field a kick-ass Word Bearers army through your modeling, painting and list building. I bet Stu Black and his henchmen will get the message they screwed up. The jump lord backlash was pretty huge two years ago because all the Night Lords out there were outraged.
I’m a fan of the higher reward higher risk. As if you fail the dark pact then you gain no Buff whatsoever but +5 sustained or lethals is incredibly powerful, especially on units that have a high amount of attacks or shooting. While I do think this detachment will do a good job in tournaments, it really feels fun in casual games as this detachment can have some hilarious outcomes.
I remember playing a game against a friend and I was using scanned his possessed I believe. Having them make 30 saves not including the devastating wounds was a good laugh.
Ya I have no issue with them balancing out the Dark Pacts. Sooo many people (myself included!) forget that rule constantly because we'd get distracted by the dice rolls :P For good laughs I love the Drukhari Archon with his temporary 2++. I've had more hilarious moments than I could count either failing the very first throw (classic) or tanking like an entire turns worth of shooting lol
Do you think Skinshift could apply to vehicles and monsters? IE return a destroyed Forgefiend or Hellbrute?
You can return 3W to anything, so you'd be able to heal a vehicle / monster no problem - to bring one back to life they'd have to be part of a unit (& Tzeentch) though. Once a unit is destroyed you can't use a strat on it unless the strat says otherwise - I wish we could bring a Forgefiend back to life!!
As someone who just started getting back to 40k recently, Pactbound Zealots are incredibly fun and easy as there are less moving pieces around. I can focus on other aspects of the game more.
Ive always run cultists with MoT, they’ll consistently chip wounds off targets. With the codex out I’ll be swapping to MoK to keep a high volume of results.
Yeah man Pactbound is just all around great, makes literally any unit at least serviceable. I think MoK is the route to go with Cultist for sure, plinking wounds off even a Knight sounds awesome to me lol
Thanks for the content
:) Appreciate that Slap!
I love Pactbound Zealots, but I played Red Corsairs in 8th-9th Edition, so I'm switching mainly to Renegades and Raiders. Gonna miss my marks of chaos, but what can I say? Assault weapons and those battle tactics in R&R just call to me.
amazing breakdown, ur vids are great! sorry bunch of q's from a noob:
ur possessed math - 22 wounds avg payload at 41:17 - i assume that's running a brick and not msu??
Glad you dug them, thank you very much!! I'm always happy to answer any questions so feel free to shoot me any others you come up with. As for the Possessed..
Yup! For the "full" ~22D that'd be using a brick of them in a Pactbound Zealots detachment + marked as Undivided. That'd give you 40 Attacks, re-roll 1's, exploding 6's, re-roll all wounds (w/the strategem). Depending on the to-wound & armor save you can fish for 6's but either way it's a RIDICULOUS amount of mortal wounds into any target in the game
That said even MSU & in other Legions they still pull their weight. 125pt for T6 15W on top of 20A 2D is pretty universal. That 9" move is pretty clutch too. Anytime you're able to find a way to re-roll their wounds they start to get extra exceptional though!
@Fat Archon thoughts on Pact: CL MU&MoE MoK amulet blood with 5 chosenMU& 5 Legionaries MoK in Rhino. 1x10 possessed MU, 2 VC M?, 2x5 WT MoS, 2x10 Cultist MoN, 2xVindic MU/MoN, 1xFF MU, Warpsmith MU, Helbrute MoN backfield front Vindicators 24”. WS behind to heal and give one vehicle a 2+. FF behind for 36”, Helbrute in the side of all to give 5+ sus/leth. Cultists backfield. Rhino VC possessed mid side control. WT’s either DS or counter mid attacks
Legit it looks good to me! The MoK MoE + Legos you could consider MoS on instead but I know the Khorne MoE slices pretty good & with the Relic you'd get even more value so yeah that works
The VC I'd run Nurgle probably. Tzeentch is the other route for anti-everything though + it's fun to sneak Tzeentch in for a change hah
Thats pretty similar to some of the lists I'd run, a really strong core of shooting & then some hyper deadly melee. I suppose maybe combine the Warp Talons so you have an ULTRA killy brick? MSU is valid too for spreading the board tho
I run tzeench havocs with all heavy bolters. Sustained and lethal on 5+ is nice
Love these! When’s the soulforge episode coming? Cant wait!!
Should be posted in a couple hours :) I've been ultra hyped on it, I had to edit it down from like 2hrs lol
@@fatarchon LFGGGGGG
@christianpeck2568 dude we almost jinxed it lmfao, my software started bugging out hardcore when I tried to export it. Luckily it FINALLY worked after a few hours of fiddling. Soon my dog of war!
Hello! Fairly new into 40K here! Super thanks for your videos they are really helpful about how to think about list etc. There is however some things I really don’t get:
1. If I bring some accursed cultists with a commune, do they loose scout?
2. I I do my terminators nurgle, and do a dark pact with the reaper autocannon(has sustained 1) does that give it sustained 2 on fives and sixes?
Again super thanks for great content.
Hey there! Glad you're digging the content & that's awesome to hear it's getting you thinking through your list. For your questions though:
Every model in the squad has to have Scouts so yeah they'd lose it sadly. Edit: as a heads up Dedicated Transports (Rhino) can gain Scouts of every model inside has the keyword though. But that still wouldn't help the Dark Commune :P
Sustained doesn't stack so you'd only get 1 extra hit even if there's multiple sources of it. Basically whatever the highest value is becomes *the* value. Terminators aren't a great example but a lot of times when you already have sustained you want to pick Lethal cause then you'd get both FYI! You'd also get them both on 5's with Pactbound. Probably not worth it on Terminators but other units it might come up
I'm big on helping newer players so if you have any other questions you're always welcome to reach out
Wow amazing reply thank you so much! I’ll be sure to check with you again I I need some tips. Super!
also, thematically i'd love to get all the marks in my army.. i know u love the termie sorcerer - kind of like the idea of giving him the eye of tzeentch to help recoup CP in a squad of terminators who he can skinshift. interested if u think that's just way too expensive to justify itself. if so could a sorcerer fly solo in a PZ list?
I'd recommend magnetising the arms on the chaos lord / sorcerer (3x1mm). Mark of khorne auto wounds with terminator dark pacts get rerolls to hit for your auto wounds comes to around 55% auto wounds for the terminators. Plus 3+ fights on death strat for the unit as your free stat in your opponents turn and you can use the free strat for a reroll for charge. Gives half the benefit of the sorcerer.
Knockin em out Archon lovin the content ❤
I like a 5 man Terminator unit with a Sorc leading with Mark of Tzeentch. Lots of Storm Bolter shots for lethal deep striking. And Being able to bring back a Terminator is strong
That's a great little combo actually, term sorc is a good pick for the Eye of Tzeentch too
Great video. Is there a point of giving termie sorcerer a termie bodyguard? I really want to stuff in terminators into a list, but it seems that people see their value only in the Iron Warriors lists now
Yeah it has its value, helps keep him alive longer which is a big deal considering how valuable he is. Otw he's usually a one time use sort of thing as most people target him after he comes down
So running predators with mk tzeentch with heavy bolters is cute, and does proc both lethal and sustained on 5s, though obviously the main gun only gains lethals on 5s. Ive run this a few times to limited success, while lethal and sustained on 5s is great, the problem is its on anti inf weapons, which they work AMAZING on, but if you try to threaten say a vehicle, most targets will have cover are rock AoC, meaning the heavy bolters go to ap0, which does basically nothing to anything with a 2+ save, which is why i run destructors with las cannons, that way there is a good enough amount of weapons profiles variations that truly threaten everything.
I had a feeling there was a reason no one runs them. Might be really handy for people with a small collection IF they need anti-everything I guess. But yeah for Predators I'm usually a Nurgle > all sort of guy :P
I keep thinking I want to start an Ork channel, focused on kitbashing and airbrushing but I don’t even know where to start. I haven’t played in a couple years but I paint every night. I should be recording it.
I have successfully magnetized 2 battlewagons, and I did it without guides. Can’t find any good guides on it so I thought I should make my own. Would give me an excuse to buy a 3rd battlewagon too
Dude if that's something you're interested in there zero harm in trying it. I started this channel like ~5yrs ago & my first handful of vids was just me painting or building models with my phone propped up against the wall towards my table lol. It was great practice & I still got a few fans who'd watch all my vids & chat with me etc
Even if you didn't post them or didn't think they were that good or whatever it'd be great practice
My big tip would be to post the vids on Reddit / social media to find those first few fans. Obv don't spam them or nothing but that was my 'secret sauce' I'd say
final one i promise!
does the helbrute's aura really confer 5+ sustained AND lethal to other units within range? (48:09)
i've seen some discussions that assume it as 2 x 5+ but no clear explanation as to why.. to me 'both abilities conferred by that pact' reads like sustained + lethal popping on 6's per the dark pact itself. then the secondary packbound zealots benefit of 5+ can only be obtained once according to the single mark the unit has.
It does indeed! If you look at the wording for the Marks of Chaos, it says ~"you score a **critical hit** on a 5+". With the Helbrute you suddenly get both the Lethals & Sustained, so any 5+ is a critical hit meaning they both go off. Normally you choose which kind of critical's you're rolling for but with the Helbrute you're getting both. Hope that makes sense!
It does, but there is one thing you need to be careful of: Lethal Hits actually has an almost anti-synergy with Devastating Wounds, because if you auto-wound something, it means you can't make the wound roll and get a Critical Wound (and thus activate Devastating Wounds). RAW, you HAVE to take both Sustained 1 and Lethal Hits when you make a Dark Pact within 6'' of the Brute, so pick the units you want next to him carefully.
@@GCarssow thks GC good heads up
I’m planning to stick mostly with this detachment to start with, running 6 squads of legionnaires as they have that icon to ensure sustained 5’s most of the time
My personal theory about the Lord Discordant is that GW has the sales figures from 8th and 9th so they know just how many people own model. They made him less attractive in 10th to drive players towards alternatives they'll have to purchase.
I've got one unit of Warp Talons and I don't want any more. Tricksy plays aren't really my style, but if I do decide, I'll make do with the one, I think.
I think you're probably spot on for the Lord Disco. Once they sell enough Warp Talons they'll be next on the chopping block I'm sure :P
I will say it might still be worth picking up another kit, not so much for more Talons but Raptors! For only 85pt I've had those little guys win me so many games hah. If you're into magnetizing you can get even more value out of em but obv that's not for everyone :)
You've always had great input on everything RSB, I love getting to read some of your comments so tyvm for sharing all your thoughts
@@fatarchon absolutely! And thank you for saying so. I'll be around for what comes next, I think you've got a great angle for a TH-cam channel here and a great community to build upon. We're happy to have you.
As far as the Raptors go, I have been considering them. I approach my models in good faith thinking "okay. GW is saying these are their models for ALL legions. Which means they are also Iron Warriors. How do I make these models believable?" That's a challenge I really enjoy, especially with only a handful of resources.
Thanks again,
Sellers
You get Dark Pacts effect even if you fail Ld test. Read the rule again. Yes, now you take the test before shooting\fighting, but you get the effect regardless of the Ld check
Yup! 08:48 😜
You’re both right and wrong. If you fail the Ld test, you’re right in that the unit still benefits from Dark Pacts the army rule. However, if you read the Pactbound Zealots detachment rule, it specifically states the benefit is only gained if the Ld test is passed (e.g. sustained hits on 5+). If a unit fails the Ld test, they won’t get sustained on 5+ but would still get Dark Pacts on 6’s.
@@RegensDominor isn't that what I say at 08:48? "you still get your 6+ Dark Pacts" 😜 Idk it's been awhile since I recorded this so maybe I did say it weird lol
Any reason not to just run 2 FF instead of the vindicator, FF shoots so much better into most stuff and is only 15 points more, not as tough but with the invulnerable probably not a lot in it
Truthfully that comes down to playstyle I'd say, I loooove cheapish units when I can take them but you're absolutely right the FF is just as good if not debateably better in a lot of cases. Really depends on the local meta & that kind of stuff.
Vindi edges it out vs tanks or big stuff but FF edges it out vs elites or mid/low toughness targets
I'm sure the fact the FF has been overcosted the last ~however many months played into it too hah. Still need to get used to it not being as overcosted :P
It's amusing that Pactbound Zealots are the only one that can take marks and are considered the "Word Bearers" detachment. Especially considering the Word Bearers are all Undivided, and only have some leaning towards one chaos god without excluding the others....
That's a fair point, it would've been kinda cool to have a detachment entirely devoted to Undivided. I suppose Iron Warriors sorta fill that niche in a way but I get what you're saying :P I'm still mainly bummed they don't buff Daemons at all, wtf GW?!
@@fatarchon Should also buff Dark Apostles imo. After all, WB have the best...
What is the best mark for Chosen?
Hmmm, probably Undivided for the re-rolls. Slaanesh isn't bad either for exploding 5's the only "issue" is they already have Adv & Charge so the strategem isn't as useful (in a sense that saves you a CP though). So yeah I'd say Undivided or Slaanesh! With Khorne coming in 3rd :P
@@fatarchon thanks man! Undivided seems useful because I’m running my chosen with 2 characters too; Chaos Lord and MOE. The MOE can grant full rerolls to wound potentially which could be tasty or if all else fails, the undivided strat.
Plenty of ways to gain rerolls!
@thekaird377 yeah with characters I think Undivided is even better, rr1's on BS2 & the MoE can't always get his rrw's to go off naturally
Huh, what about havocs running tzeentch and led by a character? It'd be mainly ahooting, but you WANT Tzeentch on havocs...
Also, I think a potential thing you missed is the MASSIVE buff pactbound gives Cult Marines. Plague Marines, Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines and Rubric Marines all get Dark Pacts instead of their godbound codex's rule, and come with the god-keyword for Pactbound Zealots. Khorne Berserkers? Lethal 5+, and you can lead them with a MoE with the talisman or a chaos lord, who can grow out of control with the permanent buff stratagem. Pile them all into a rhino and same-day ship that box of carnage into something tanky. All those berserker attacks with lethal 5s is a nightmare!
It STILL bothers me that Nurgle and Tzeentch have the wrong bonus effects. Death Guard leans like crazy into Lethal Hits and Tzeentch's flames should procc sustained because warpfire spreads even if it's not a "flameable" target.
Obvious this has no bearing on tournaments, but what's your opinion on homebrew crunch?
Sadly only noise marines get dark pacts out of the cult marines. Rubrics, plagues and berserkerz lack the dark pact ability.
Despite my channel maaainly revolving around comp play I'm huge into garagehammer & imo the point of that is FUN > all. I can't stand when people bring a comp attitude or like, a tournament list to casual games so yeah man - so long as your opponent is fine with it I think it's fine. Especially if you make fluffy rules for your dudes (& obv don't go overboard..)
The Tzeentch Havocs is clever btw, esp if you go with Chaincannons for the lethal. I've been looking for ways to get use out of a Warpsmith attached to Havocs & that might just be the best ver I've seen so far
@fatarchon oh the balancing is the rewarding part of crunch homebrew. You have to cook it just right to be flavorful, but not broken. After all, if it's broken who will play with it?
And you can make such cool stuff. Some of my favorite pieces are the "Cindaros" destroyer line which are centipede-taur necron destroyers with heat cannons, "Excoriators" or Immortal/Lychguard flayed ones, and a Tau "Drone Factory" tank that can build drones for itself or nearby allies each command phase.
@@Horrorking98 I'm PRETTY sure their faction rule is replaced with dark pacts, and thus would benefit from marks of chaos? I'll dig after work. Hard to do on a phone.
@johnj.spurgin7037 unfortunately Horror is right :( They gain the Heretic Astartes keyword but still don't have Dark Pacts on their datasheets. But, maybe that's room to homebrew something unique for them?
Pactbound Zealots doesnt feel like Word bearers, heck Chaos Cultists is more like Word Bearers imo. It even has Dark Apostle support.
I'm a word bearer player and i hate this detatchment.
Seeing the "Word Bearer" themed detatchment be mostly used for Abaddon forgefiend/vidicator shooting castle is a pretty obvious design flop when it comes to theme.
That is a a very (very!) fair criticism. I'm hype in this video mainly because of their strength & association with WB but you're absolutely right that it drops the ball on the fluff side of things. The fact it doesn't boost Daemons at all is.. Baffling. Heck even just "you can bring 50% Daemon allies" would've been such a flavor win. I totally understand why you're upset & sadly there's not really a different detachment that works all that well for them :( Chaos Cults sorta but that's for converts not Daemons or Possessed
@@fatarchon Chaos cult is such a cool theme and aligns with WB and their apostles really well. If I had my way I would have settled with 7 detatchments and merged Chaos Cult and Pactbound together so that chaos cult isn't as insanely hordy and weak and pactbound isn't as flavourless. Pacts and sacrificing cultist in order to boost your other units and extra effects for daemonkin was what my dream scenario looked like for a WB detatchment.
yo!
Sup!
Word bearers are geh in the lore