Cut and Altered Dungeons of Zelda Wind Waker | Cut Content
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2024
- Zelda Wind Waker was a game that went through alot of change during development.. Especially dungeons. From altering rooms, cutting rooms, or removing 2 dungeons. Today we explore these Beta Dungeons.
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Sources:
tcrf.net/The_Legend_of_Zelda:...
Footage Credit:
• Five Golden Tingle Sta...
• 100% Walkthrough - The...
• 100% Walkthrough - The...
• Zelda Twilight Princes...
Chapters:
0:00 - Cut and Altered Dungeons of Zelda Wind Waker
1:01 - Beta Dragon Roost Cavern of Zelda Wind Waker
1:32 - Beta Forbidden Forest of Zelda Wind Waker
1:46 - 1st Cut Dungeon of The Wind Waker
6:38 - Beta Tower of the Gods of Zelda Wind Waker
9:13 - Beta Forsaken Fortress of Zelda Wind Waker
9:31 - Beta Earth Temple of Zelda Wind Waker
9:53 - Beta Wind Temple of Zelda Wind Waker
11:11 - 2nd Cut Dungeon of The Wind Waker
14:18 - Beta Ganon's Tower of Zelda Wind Waker
15:44 - Extro
#Zelda #Nintendo #WindWaker - เกม
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I love how unused content and prototypes tell an untold story about a games development
Indeed. It's almost a puzzle being pieced together to get a bigger picture
A couple things:
1. I think you discount the possibility that the temple ideas got reused in Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks. I think the Ghost Ship is a prime candidate of something dungeon/temple-esque that would have made perfect sense to be more significant in WW but instead became explorable in PH.
2. I always thought the temples getting reused wasn't so literal as a water temple being a water temple but maybe its puzzles and motifs getting separated and repurposed in other spots. So its possible a lot of it is unrecognizable and popped up in spots that didn't correlate to where it would have been in WW.
1) The problem with the DS dungeons are that they were all designed like 2D Zelda dungeons. Those play very differently from the 3D dungeons that use elevation of 3D space to their advantage at every opportunity. Thus why I don't think the DS Zeldas used them. If you this it was a Ghost Ship Dungeon however, then the Sandship form Skyward Sword would fit that motif well if you make it more haunted.
2) Aonuma as I showed within the video literally said they reused those in later Zelda's. They weren't Frankenstein'd into existing Wind Waker dungeons
@TheObsessiveGamer I understand what you are saying and agree with that point of view. What I said is reliant on the idea of reusing concepts, designs, and puzzles. It doesn't betray what the interview said and would enable them to be adapted to fit any new context whether 2D or 3D. They would have to remodel everything and make sure it aligns with the later game's inventory anyways, so I don't think it's out of the question that it could be any combination or alteration. Regardless I still like your hypothesis on which ones it may be if they were used later as a whole.
I agree with this
15:30 There's actually a very convincing cave entrance you could find in the desert area if you fly the camera to a certain point which suggests that the desert may have been accessible at some point during development. On this video, if you pause it at 15:30 which shows the next scene of the desert, move the camera closer to that area behind the tower and the cave entrance should be there.
the desert map is clearly not meant for walking considering it is made as a disconnected map that is clearly meant to be viewed from a high angle including that entrance. The entrance is quite large too and can even be seen from top if the tower is unobstructed. it is purely decoration
I still want a modded windwaker romhack with new dungeons, and explorable Hyrule
I do hope the modding scene explodes one day with Wind Waker the way it did with Ocarina of Time. So much you could do with it.
I highly suggest looking up windwaker unflooded. Huge project, but it's definitely coming along
My theory is that the first cut dungeon was in fact 'Inside Jabun's Belly', and that the companion we meet there that becomes the third sage, is likely... Tetra herself. Tetra utilizes follower AI for her sections in Hyrule before we take her in to meet the King, so they messed around with that for her. The other temple, was likely the Temple of Time, located in the basement of Hyrule Castle. Since Zelda is established as the Sage of Time in both Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker, they could have made the ancestor Sage.... The King of Hyrule, or Rauru, or even another Zelda herself.
That is very possible. If it was Lakebed Temple, I can see those large stairs going down being its throat and the multi-split path leading to different organs in his body.
Tetra could work too. I mean Zelda was a sage technically in OOT, so a good call back.
Interesting theory. I’ve not heard this one before. If that were true, I think the previous sage could’ve been her mom or the King. But why would they make him the previous sage if he were alive? And I doubt her mom even knew her identity, or that they’d used a previous character or Zelda. Even the Hero’s shade in TP isn’t referred to as Link of the Hero of Time.
And I assume Zelda herself would have been the last "companion" for the final cut dungeon. Zelda eventually becomes a companion in Spirit Tracks, which the devs said has been a concept they wanted to do for a while at that point.
And everyone felt how "Quick" Tetra became Zelda. An entire dungeon with Tetra/Zelda would have made too much sense.
Especially since there is a segment where Tetra follows you around.
Zelda is a good answer too imo. Makes for a callback to OOT I say when Zelda was considered a sage. Infact I can see them just giving her an Ocarina as her instrument in this case. Maybe her Ghost sage could even have been OoT Zelda
Ghost sage... Maybe her mother? I swore Tetra had a family portrait, and her mother WAS mentioned in the dialogue? I... think there is a photo of her mom, too
WAIT. Zelda's spirit guide is still in the game! King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule. The end of Zelda's dungeon would probably end the same way as the cutscene under Hyrule Castle.
I don’t think this is likely since I’m sure her mom didn’t know her true identity, or ever do anything sage like, and why wouldn’t King Daphnes be the sage himself if this were the case? Don’t get me wrong, I love Tetra to pieces and would’ve loved this, but it doesn’t make much sense. They wouldn’t have used a previous Tetra or most likely an ocarina. Wind Waker is its own game and already calls back to OoT enough. We don’t want an exact replica 😂 Even with the Hero’s Shade they never called him Link or the Hero of Time. If this were true, I think the most likely cases would be her mom or King Daphnes.
I wonder if the second cut dungeon could have been Twilight Princess' Temple of Time (hence, TP simply intended for you to find the Master Sword in the ruins, not go back in time). Since the whole theme there is controlling a statue, as you would with your companion. It fits with your theory of Rauru being the dead sage.
That’s a highly believed theory, that the Temple of Time was one of the dungeons cut, or at least parts of it. It definitely closely resembles using the Wind Waker in the Tower of the Gods. I don’t believe Rauru would be a sage, I think it there was a third sage it would’ve been a Goron descendant since that’s the only race that doesn’t have representation, and is really only used as an Easter Egg in Wind Waker. The ghost sage would’ve been an original character.
I wonder if the skull hammer was a later addition to the game due to how little the game actually utilized it, from what i remember, outside of the forsaken fortress it was only used in the great fairy entrance, the oasis underground and probably a third thing i'm forgetting. I bet they made it specifically to give an additional challenge to the player when returning to the forsaken fortress.
With other items they usually have enemies tied to them that make them worth using outside of the dungeon, like chuchus and the boomerang, bows and the bird wizards, but i can't seem to think of very many places where the skull hammer would be useful or intended outside of the previous things.
I looked it up and the hammer was seen earliest in spaceworld 2001, a year before the game came out.
I am convinced the missing sage is a Goron. I am sure the 2 dungeons are in Twilight Princess given it's high dungeon count and being developped directly after Wind Waker. The Goron Mines always seemed too cartoony to me compared to the rest of Twilight Princess, with the whole walking on walls and ceillings with the Iron Boots.
I never thought about that, but I think you may be onto something. The goron mines does kind of stand out, even the objective of finding the 3 keys seems like something that would be in Wind Waker.
Yeah that seems like a likely fit for one of the missing dungeons or at least large parts of it. Many people, myself included, believe that this was to be the dungeon on Stovepipe Island (as seen in Hyrule Historian) which was very likely meant to be in place of Fire Mountain. It’s an island of steam and smoke and shows pipes. The creatures even look similar to Gorons, potentially being the Goron descendants. Gorons are really the only race not talked about in Wind Waker and are really only shown as an Easter Egg. You use the iron boots in this dungeon. The island was meant to have hot springs. It seems pretty convincing to me that these were one and the same, at least a large part of it. Also, how you get fire and ice arrows seems to be too easy. It’s believed you would’ve gotten the Power Bracelets here (and possibly Fire Arrows) and it’s probably my favorite theory on which dungeon was left out.
i love prototypes, development stories, cut or edited ideas & behind the scenes stories. they’re so interesting and make the stories seem so much more special
They really are fascinating to look at and see what their thought process might have been while making it
I’m OBSESSED with your Wind Waker content! I could watch it all day every day! I’ve been in love with Wind Waker ever since it came out and have always wondered where the dungeons would’ve been. It’s obvious that one would’ve replaced the Triforce shard quest, but I’ve never heard these specific theories before. It makes so much sense that the dungeon would be the Lakebed Temple and it’d be super cool if Aryll was a sage. I always thought it was a shame we couldn’t see her until after the final battle. I really like how it ended up being though. It takes you by surprise instead of being that exact 3 temple fire, earth, water formula. It was so well done in my opinion. I could see Jabun’s scream be similar in the way of Valoo where the water temple boss is harassing him so Link comes in to save him. Jabun also has a swimming animation that we don’t see in the game. However, I feel due to Tetra’s role in the game we would’ve needed to see her some time in between each Forsaken Fortress trip. A popular theory is also that the Goron Mines was supposed to be on Fire Island. If you look at the concept art the island looks pretty similar to Fire Island, and the creatures very similar to Gorons. I do believe the Rito are descended from the Zora, but the Gorons are really more of an Easter egg. They aren’t spoken of. It’s highly likely that these creatures were meant to be the descendants of the Gorons. The description of the island fits perfectly with the Goron Mines, which also has the Steel Boots. It would be weird to have two fire temples, which is the only thing that really throws people off. And as you mentioned, if that was the dungeon, wouldn’t a character we met there have to be the third sage? Then what temple would that be? The Earth Temple or Fire Sanctuary? I also don’t think the entire temples were copy and pasted, likely the puzzles were reused in different areas. Another common theory is the Ghost Ship from Phantom Hourglass, which could’ve taken place instead of the Triforce Shard quest. But again, if the Goron thing is true, which I think is the most likely scenario, why wouldn’t a character from that island be a sage? I believe Aonuma said that the parts of the dungeons were scattered between Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, and Skyward Sword.
Glad you've been enjoying both videos that much! I actually plan to make a sole video soon exploring this theory of Gorons, Stovepipeisland (which is what the concept calls it) and how it may be a major contender as the second dungeon.
Also Aonuma said they were just reused. He never said what games. I doubt DS games cause despite the 3D models, it was 2D Zelda gameplay which is very different from 3D. If the Stovetop island theory is true, then the Goron Mines indeed are a sound idea, meaning both were reused in TP
There's no fire island in windwaker the island is called fire mountain and was originally planned to be stovepipe island which was cut from the final version of windwaker as for gorons being easter eggs the majority of gorons fled Hyrule and the only gorons you see are merchant gorons and the creatures with pipes on there back that was cut from the game were use in twilight princess.
I love your content and eagerly look forward to watching all your videos, thank you for your hard work and effort put into every single beta/cut/leftover videos that you make, your dedication to your craft is amazing!
Thank you! Hope you enjoy this one too!
I also have another idea on the unused Water Temple boss : what if the boss, shown on the concept art at 2:55, was a possessed Jabun? There is definitely a resemblance, and the sound effects played at 6:13 sound quite a lot like "boss dying" sound effects. He would probably have turned back to his uncorrupted self after the battle, as we've seen it a few other times in the Zelda series.
Fun Fact! The second sound FX of Jabun being hurt is in the final version of the game, you can hear it when you open a treasure chest on the Ghost Ship.
Those Jabun sound effects are terrifying. Lol
It’s so interesting seeing how games changed throughout development. It’s especially interesting thinking about what could’ve been, and how cut ideas are oftentimes repurposed for a different project later on (this happened ALL THE TIME with Halo).
It would be awesome to see a reimaging of Wind Waker that uses newer hardware to better flesh out previous things, expand certain areas of the game, and restore cut content. I know it would break the canon, but Nintendo very clearly does not care about continuity (look at BOTW and TOTK for proof. Skyward Sword also causes some problems, but nowhere near on the scale of the Switch games). I’m sure you’d also have a bunch of the “lore fans” (who only go by the badly translated English versions, outright refuse to look at more accurate translation, and learn the historical/cultural context behind different things Nintendo incorporated into Zelda). As long as older versions of the game were still available to play I think having a different version would be fine.
My dream right here. I want to play the game how they intended! Screw if it has the same puzzles as other dungeons!
such a great video as usual! I was always curious about those two cut dungeons and which later dungeons they became
I think wind waker is the most intriguing zelda game when it comes to cut content for me, so I'm always excited to see more wind waker cut content, thank you for the video!
Alternate idea for the cut desert in the final battle...
The Ganon battle in Wind Waker always seemed a little short to me (Puppet Ganon does not count, it is not repeatable, therefore it is not part of the final boss). Only one stage seems kinda rushed.
What I think might have happened was that Ganondorf might have discovered that the Triforce would not work (for whatever reason) unless they were above sea level, thus why the King hid Zelda below, so after the first stage of the battle is over and Ganondorf gets the Triforce of Courage from Link, Ganondorf used his own power to raise his tower in the desert from the depths, during which Link and Zelda attack him together, with the battle being the one we got, minus some background changes here and there. The end of the battle would be Link v Ganon as per usual after the Triforce is stolen as per the final game, and upon Ganondorf's defeat his magic raising the tower breaks, sending it back to the ocean floor, and we get the same ending cutscene as the final game. Anyone else think this makes sense?
I always have wanted an extra phase to that battle and your setup sounds rather nice
I wonder if any testers of the games could give any info about them. I remember a majoras mask beta tester talked about their experience with the game, but when they talked about it they mostly just discussed how the job and bug reporting system worked, so there wasn't any new majoras mask info to know from it. While we didn't learn anything new from the majoras mask bug tester, we did learn that there are some people out there willing to talk about it, so maybe they may be able to know some secrets about the game.
Please get them to talk
I watch all of your videos. Your amazing!
Thank you! Hope you enjoy this!
I think the second cut dungeon could’ve been an ice dungeon. If you think about it, there’s a fire, forest and water (first cut dungeon) and even an earth and wind dungeon. And the Earth temple can be interpreted as a “shadow” as well. But ice is the only element not covered. If I remember, there’s an ice dungeon in Phantom Hourglass? This is the direct sequel to Wind Waker.
That’s also a widely believed theory! That the two dungeons would’ve been on Fire Mountain and Ice Ring Isle! There’s not much concept art for Ice Ring Isle, but there is some for Fire Mountain. It’s under the name of Stovepipe Island and is believed to be Fire Mountain. It makes sense for the dungeons to be there instead of the mini ones because we gain items and Jabun’s Pearl imo seemed like it was supposed to play out that way. It was said the later parts of the game were rushed, not the beginning.
A lot the beta layouts look like they were still working with Ocarina of Time design sensibilities at that point. Lots of basic arrangements, blockier assets, and simpler textures.
The Lakebed temple does feel like a Wind Waker dungeon in a lot of ways, mainly the levers used to rotate the central staircase always felt very cartoony in design. Also, it seems like the animation would work better for WW Link than TP Link.
That said, I'm confident the WW version was likely at least somewhat altered for TP. The TP version has the Clawshot as the dungeon item, and the Hookshot is obtained much later in WW. I could buy that maybe the Hookshot would've been obtained here and you'd get the Iron Boots or something from the Wind Temple instead, but the other thing that raises an eyebrow from me is the prominence of vines. WW has Ladders and climbable ropes, but no vines. Vines are all over the place in TP, and if they were in WW at any point in development, it would only make sense you'd see them in places like the Forest Haven.
Beyond that, the entrance of the Lakebed Temple requires you to use Bomb Arrows to knock down Stallagtites. Not only do Bomb Arrows not exist in WW, you don't have the bow by this point, either. So that puzzle would have to be different, too.
Furthermore, the Lakebed Temple relied on Water Bombs as well. And we have no evidence thise were planned for WW, either. Though with the addition of underwater environments and a specialty bomb shop which WW has in common with TP, it's not too much of a stretch to suspect that maybe Water Bombs could've been planned for WW, too, and just didn't get as far along into development as the Water Boots. Additionally, Water Bombs exist as enemies in TP, too. So perhaps those enemies in WW would be used instead for these puzzles. Maybe you could grab them with the Grappling Hook and throw them into underwater rocks?
Then, there's Iron Boots which were also important for navigating the Lakebed Temple but not available until later in the final game. Though this is less significant without knowing the exact behavior of the Water Boots. It's possible the Water Boots themselves would allow Link to sink to the bottom as well as swim freely, like the Mikau in MM. This would make sense, as switching between Water and Iron Boots frequently would be annoying and force you to delegate two buttons to boots.
Looking further into things, it's reasonable to suspect the item that would've been obtained in this dungeon would be one of the items you don't get from a dungeon in the final game: The Deku Leaf, Bombs, Fire and Ice Arrows, Power Bracelets, and Iron Boots. In TP, since the Zora Armor is a suit rather than an item, it's a simple toggle.
Perhaps the dungeon was worked around the Grappling Hook in a lot of the places that used the Clawshot in TP (and that additionally explains the design of the Clawshot in the first place, it's made as a hybrid of the Grappling Hook and Hookshot). It could be possible you would get the Water Boots as the dungeon item, but given that you need an item to get into the other two initial dungeons, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume the Water Boots would be obtained on the way to the Lakebed Temple. Perhaps as a reward for saving Jabun from a monster attack similar to the Deku Tree. With this in mind, there are a few ideas for what you would find in this dungeon:
1. Water Boots. Perhaps the entrance to the dungeon is *not* underwater. Maybe you could even sail in with the boat? If you could get the bombs before the dungeon, perhaps this was even the solution to the stalagtite puzzle and Bomb Arrows were added to TP as a replacement for the boat's canon. I think this is the most likely option as it allows the most of the dungeon to be left unchanged. In this situation, I suspect you would venture to the depths of the dungeon searching for Jabun and perhaps he would be attacked by the boss and that's what those voice clips are for.
2. The Hookshot. As I alluded to before, it is possible the Hookshot would be made available here and the Iron Boots would've been obtained from the Wind Temple. This is less likely since in the final game the Iron Boots are necessary to enter the Wind Temple, but perhaps a different puzzle would've been at play here. The Hookshot is the immediate assumption I think most people would make, but most applications of the Clawshot in the Lakebed Temple could certainly be replaced with the Grappling Hook with the puzzles more or less unchanged.
3. Iron Boots: Sinking to the seafloor with the Water Boots might be one thing, but there are still parts of the Lakebed Temple that require the Iron Boots to push through strong currents. It might still be a necessity to have the Iron Boots here. In this case, the aforementioned scenario of saving Jabun from monsters and being rewarded with the Water Boots as a key to entering the dungeon would likely be at play.
4. Bombs. This is the least likely option, I think. But the Bombs are an item you obtain at roughly this same point in the final game. It could be possible they moved this to the pirate ship after cutting the dungeon, and on the surface level that might make sense. However, the encounter with the pirates at the bomb shop on Windfall is so integral to the narrative, I have a hard time believing they planned for you to get bombs any other way.
It's really interesting to imagine how WW would've felt had we gotten these extra dungeons, and I really am curious what the other missing dungeon would've been... maybe the Goron Mines? That's another dungeon that only uses WW items and has some rather silly interactions. Maybe the Temple of Time or Hyrule Castle from Twilight Princess? Who can really say? But I really wish we could see these early concepts for WW. I suspect, though, none of these ideas would've made it to Skyward Sword. SS is simply too heabiky reliant on its own gimmicks. But the Ancient Sistern isn't a bad guess... Maybe one day they'll let us know which dungeons were planned for Wind Waker!
@mendaix climbable vines like in OoT and TP? I can't say I recall that?
Yeah I expect that it it was altered for Twilight Princess. It's possible the item was never even decided yet. I do like your theory of the hookshot/grapple hook being what was there and that the iron boots were what was the Wind Temples main item originally. Infact if we look at that beta Wind Temple, the original opening switch that required the iron boots didn't require originally. This theory definitely has a lot of legs I say.
@mendaix wow! You're totally right! I guess it's been a while. Is this the only instance of climbable vines in the game? I guess this means they would certainly be in WW's version of Lakebed.
@TheObsessiveGamer I definitely think Hookshot over Grappling Hook. You get the Hook from Dragon Roost, after all, and I can't imagine that being different.
I also suppose the dungeon possibly wasn't *designed* per se until TP. They could've just had the central idea of a water dungeon build around diverting the flow of water using a staircase. But I still suspect the idea must've gotten decently far along for traces of Water Boots to be left in the final game, even if the dungeon may have been scrapped because they had to scrap the free swimming mechanics.
I don’t believe the Lakebed Temple was copy and pasted from Wind Waker, but it’s very likely things were taken from the missing dungeons and used here. Also, you use vines in Wind Waker too. The first thing I think of is the Earth Temple when it comes to vines in Wind Waker. It’s just outside of the boss room. There’s multiple places in the game you have to use them, so it’s not just a TP thing. I loved how in depth your theory was and especially really like the grappling hook/hookshot idea. I’m definitely open to that! I don’t think the Iron Boots would’ve been the Wind Temple’s item though. I believe like you said, the Goron Mines (or at least a large part of it) was taken from one of the missing dungeons, specifically the one on Stovepipe Island/Fire Mountain. You can see the concept art in Hyrule Historia and based on its description there’s a very high chance this was meant to be Fire Mountain. The creatures even look like they could be the descendants of the Gorons, who really don’t play much of a role in Wind Waker. They aren’t even talked about. While the Kokiri and Zora are, the Gorons are completely missable unless you use your leaf on one of the traveling merchants. There’s pretty good evidence to suggest this was meant to be the dungeon that was where you gained the Power Bracelets (which in the game are way too easy to get.) You might’ve even gotten Fire Arrows there too. I believe the scenario with Jabun likely would’ve had more, but I think the set up with the pirates, like you said, was already planned. I also heard that they had to rush the ending of the game and not the beginning. That seems pretty solid. So if the Fire Mountain theory is true, that means that most likely the other dungeon was on Ice Ring Isle. Now this is more of a mystery since we don’t have concept art for this island. Possibly because they used a very similar design elsewhere. I believe Aonuma said that parts of the missing dungeons were in TP, PH, and SS. Perhaps parts made it into the Temple of Time or even the Lakebed Temple. The mechanics could be the same without the theme carrying over. So for Wind Waker the theme would’ve been ice, but they could’ve easily changed that to water or earth, etc, keeping the puzzles the same. I think it’s almost certain that parts of what was cut is in the Lakebed Temple, but where from is the question.
Whilst it’s good to know the cut dungeons didn’t go to waste and were re-used I think my response if I had been interviewing him for the remake would have been “that’s great. So couldn’t you have designed new dungeons in their place?”
@15:30 Ive seen video that there is what appears to be a path way at one part of the desert area. Sure It could only be flavor graphics but it could have been a path way. Because the map itself doesnt look like it would be explorable from the lack of structures that doesnt mean it was original explorable but once they found out it wont be the could have only done as much for a cutscene or just drop updating it at all.
The desert map is clearly not meant for walking considering it is made as a disconnected map that is clearly meant to be viewed from a high angle including that entrance. The entrance is quite large too and can even be seen from top if the tower is unobstructed. it is purely decoration. There is no collision or anything there either to indicate it was once meant to be walked on
I remember playing the wind waker demo in the zelda collectors edition
We need a proper Wind Waker remake with all originally intended content along with new content.
I’ll sign that petition
Yes.
While the bell tower is also on the Great Sea map, the map that you ring the bell on and where the cutscene takes place is different.
Finally the Wind Waker cut dungeons video
I personally don't think the Zora ghost was repurposed. its a good theory, but the Zora species was turned into birds in the lore so they wouldn't be able to explore the ocean, it wouldn't make sense for them to drop that and have the spirit be something else if there was a 3rd sage. it also doesn't hold up to the mini pattern.
Koroks are descendant from Kokiri, so the wind sage is a kokiri.
Ruto descend from Zora so the earth sage is a Zora.
tthe mismatched theming is something I do admit is strange, but theres nothing that says the wind sage HAS to have elements of the wind in their design or that the earth sage has to have elements of earth/the dead in theirs either.
I propose this theory instead: Medli and her Zora ghost were intended for the third temple but ended up being used for the Earth temple instead when it was cut down into 2 Sages and 2 Temples. whatever theme the third temple had might have reasonably fit them more than a Crypt.
and for an additional theory, if Link's Sister was to be the third sage then she already by default fits the crypt theme since her dress at the end of the game and in 2nd Quest has a skull motif (if that is an important factor), so taking that plus the undead dungeon maybe the third ghost/former sage could have been a member of the Sheikah (they were associated with the supernatural/undead in OoT and both WW's Earth Temple and OoT's Shadow Temple share a similar undead theme)
While that’s an interesting theory, Link and Aryll are Hylian. I agree with you that Medli is definitely descended from Laruto. I believe if there was supposed to be a third sage it would be a Goron. They’re the only race missing and aren’t even discussed in the game. You can completely miss them if you don’t either know about them or use your Deku leaf of a traveling merchant. In the concept art for Stovepipe Island there are characters that look pretty similar to Gorons. I believe these could be the descendants of the Gorons.
@@narutosbelievin didn't notice my fucked up grammar made it sound like I proposed Aryll was a sheikah tribe descendant. didn't mean for it to sound like that and I completely forgot about the Gorons. good catch!
Huh, I had no idea that Ganon's Tower was surrounded by a rendered desert. I always thought it was peculiar and a bit underwhelming that the fight takes place on top of that tower but the surroundings are immediately obscured.
the desert map is clearly not meant for walking considering it is made as a disconnected map that is clearly meant to be viewed from a high angle including that entrance. The entrance is quite large too and can even be seen from top if the tower is unobstructed. it is purely decoration
13:30 Something else in favor of a Sky dungeon: The Helmaroc King. You fight him twice in the released game, but it's possible one of those fights was initially intended to be a sky dungeon boss. It would make the re-used boss much less disappointing with a change of scenery (which might also require a change in tactics/phases).
It would also make for a Sky/Sea/Sunk (Hyrule Castle) tri-layering, and Zelda games love their trios.
You don’t fight him twice 😂
"it wasn't intended to be walked around on" > ignores the perfectly link shaped gap in the wall
we ignoring that the map is clearly not meant for walking considering it is made as a disconnected map that is clearly meant to be viewed from a high angle including that gap?
Hyrule was meant to exlporable but due the size of final end scene credits which took roughly 70 percent of the mini dvd disc and nintendo's insistence on one disc for the game it was cut with the only remnate being a cave entrance in the desert area around Ganondorf's tower
The temples were also meant to be entrances for Hyrule from the great sea but was scraped due to the limitations of the disc size as mentioned earlier. Remaints also exist in the king of the red loins dialog where he mentions the entrances to the temples from hyrule.
Hyrule was indeed meant to be explorable, but it was not done not due to the game disk size, but tight deadline, which is why 2 dungeons were cut. I do plan to talk further about the cut ideas for Hyrule including the Temple entrances in a later video actually.
The desert map however is clearly not meant for walking considering it is made as a disconnected map that is clearly meant to be viewed from a high angle including that entrance. The entrance is quite large too and can even be seen from top if the tower is unobstructed. it is purely decoration
if your theory about the rito is true the adult rito had a dfferent design early on, maybe the wing designs & the maturity ritual werent planned back then cause it makes them appear more zoralike
I think the Zelda franchise might be one of interesting franchises when it comes to cut content, others that come to my mind are kingdom hearts, Pokemon and there are definitely more but what interests me as well is Bionicle heroes cut content, since there are not a lot of stuff out there, there are also only 2 test maps that were shown on TH-cam, the others haven't because they don't have collision, so it is quite sad not a lot is known.
Love Wind Waker
0:12 And I know that hyrule glitch! xD
The cut water dungeon was something i always imagined to be something like Jabu Jabu that when Ganondorf destroyed the island he cursed him and Link would’ve had to enter his belly to get rid of the curse and then get Nayru’s pearl. It felt so weird to just be handed that as a freebie
Nah, they wouldn’t do the exact same thing they did in OoT.
@@narutosbelievin That was the “13-year old”-me’s guess from back in the day when it came out because it looked like it’d have been so convenient to just sail into its mouth to enter the dungeon 😅
My thoughts have always been layered and complex on WW cut content.
Firstly, I think the final game’s “Earth” Temple makes absolutely no sense as an “Earth” Temple. It is themed (and plays) insanely more like a “Spirit Temple” such as the one from Ocarina of Time, especially with the dungeon boss being a Poe! Medli (the literal bird person with wings) not being your companion for the *WIND* Temple is also so strange…As well as the literal tree boy Makar not being your *EARTH* Temple companion?? I think Aryl being our Spirit Sage works more believably if the Earth Temple is really the Spirit Temple than in places others have suggested.
Secondly, something’s got to be up with the fire mountain and ice ring isle situation. Two 5 minute “challenge chambers” for 2 key items?!? To me, it seems obvious that that cannot have been the originally planned method of obtaining each of those…
Next, there was a potential inhabited island designed, called “Stovepipe Island” that would’ve been home to the Gorons in Wind Waker. A straight visual design line from this island’s concept art to the industrial setting with pipes and such in Twilight Princess’s Goron Mountain aesthetic is rather easy to draw.
I unfortunately hold the opinion that a lot more parts of dungeons were designed and then scrapped than what we commonly think in regard to WW.
Of course, with Jabun’s design being that of an Anglerfish, it really hints that he would’ve taken us to the depths of the ocean for whatever dungeon I also agree would’ve taken place before receiving Nayru’s pearl.
I hope (against my better judgment) that someday we will get more info regarding precisely what was cut out and/or shifted around.
I would love a boss fight against ganondorf in the gerudo desert. Especially if he dies there in the end which i think would fit well tragically
Look up STOVE PIPE ISLE for Wind Waker in Hyrule Hystoria and compare it to GORON MINES in Twilight Princess.... Yes... A cut "goron" temple! (Except they were evolved Gorons with stove pipes emerging from them? Sort of like the Goron Elders already in Goron Mines)
So while it's not impossible for it to be the Goron Mines, the reason I don't think it is, is because of the main mechanic of using the iron boots to casually go upside-down. This was a concept that was made during the technical experiment known as Mario 128 where they came up with stuff like that (which evolved into Mario Galaxy eventually). At this point during TWW's development, they were still trying to figure out that Mario 128 experiment to try to implement it in i'd think. Thus why I don't think it is the Goron Mines.
Now Stove Pipe Isle imo might have either been another mini-dungeon like Fire and Ice Island, or just the island Goron's lived but lacked a dungeon to themselves
The iron boots mechanic is a sticking point, but the proper function of the water boots is still up in the air. (Could have functioned similarly to TP Iron boots.) Speculation aside, Fire Mountain and Stove Pipe have similar designs. Fire Mountain being the top half of Stove Pipe Isle. Goron Mines I mention because of some similarities between the cut Goron Race and the Goron NPCs in the Goron Mines. (The similarities being the smoke stacks.)
You're assuming that the cut dungeons were repurposed for console release Zelda games, but there were several other handheld titles in that time as well. I feel like it's more likely that one or both were used in Phantom Hourglass or Spirit Tracks since they were sequels. We do know that one cut island was supposed to look just like a GameCube and we got a DS shaped island in Phantom Hourglass. It is also quite likely that even the dungeons we got that were cut from Wind Waker barely resemble their Wind Waker form anyhow and it could just be concepts and mechanics from the cut dungeons that were used and embellished upon for the game it ended up in. Imagine if the idea of double hookshots were originally in Wind Waker. The City in the Sky is a sky temple, but without too much redesign imagine that is underwater, but the bottomless pits are whirlpools that suck you down to oblivion, so you're forced to use double hookshots to traverse the dungeon even if free swimming was an option. It's been a long time since I've played the 2 DS games, but I do recall a couple partner based dungeons (I specifically remember a Goron one) that would have felt right at home in Wind Waker. An idea that was implemented in TotK in both better and worse ways 😂
The problem with the DS dungeons are that they were all designed like 2D Zelda dungeons. Those play very differently from the 3D dungeons that use elevation of 3D space to their advantage at every opportunity. Thus why I don't think the DS Zeldas used them
However, your later idea is very possible that they may not resemble their original verison at all. So yeah who knows, maybe it was the City in the Sky for all we know. For the sake of this video, it was theory crafting on if it stuck to its element and didn't change it much.
What if the City in the Sky was actually the City in the Ocean at one point. Just drop it into an ocean and the dungeon could still function.😊
1:12 to ganon faces either!
Beta tower i think was reused in Zelda Spirit tracks. And the reused water temple probably from phantom hourglass as those games feel like the direct filler of the windwaker just simplified.
Beta tower?
And the problem with the DS dungeons are that they were all designed like 2D Zelda dungeons. Those play very differently from the 3D dungeons that use elevation of 3D space to their advantage at every opportunity. Thus why I don't think the DS Zeldas used them
The graphics of this game make cut levels all the more unique. Yes I am looking too far into it but I don't know. I never cared to beat this game but the art style and combat system were cool at least.
Yes, it was the sailing and triforce piece hunting that turned me away to never look back lol.
I didn't mind sailing. Triforce hunting on the other hand is what hurts.
the remake makes the triforce piece hunting way easier and quicker, but the original was in fact pain, I remember getting stuck when I was little cuz I kept having to farm rupees up and they made you find more charts in the original to THEN find the pieces, so you had to spend way more rupees overall
You should finish it! I actually quite like that part of the game ☺️ I like how it’s unique and isn’t just another dungeon like the typical Zelda formula.
@@narutosbelievin Nah, i'll save it for when theres a Modern port on an E-shop that'll value my purchase on modern hardware for the rest of the Nintendo console Generations. Otherwise i won't support Nintendo or their new consoles that insist on having portability i'll never use. Fuck that.
Alternatevely, i'm holding out for if I get a GF who's more into Nintendo then i am, then we'll delve together.
You forgot the water dungeon in Spirit Tracks that may have been inspired by the cut water temple content.
The problem with the DS dungeons are that they were all designed like 2D Zelda dungeons. Those play very differently from the 3D dungeons that use elevation of 3D space to their advantage at every opportunity. Thus why I don't think the DS Zeldas used them
You forgot the cave entrance in the desert
Allowing you to you a enemy’s weapon, which windwaker is known for.
15 years later, breath of the wild😈
BOTW took that concept and put it in crack lol
@@TheObsessiveGamer the comment of the century lol
Also I always wondered what the wasn’t used in the remake of ocarina of time since that game was a perfect remake just like majoras mask??
Also a shoutout
While I think the Tower of the Gods was always meant to be a dungeon, I think it was originally going to be at a later point in the game.
AFAIK, the old design doesn't show any indication that water would've played a role in it; so once it became clear that the original 3rd dungeon wasn't going to make it in time for release, they redesigned and repurposed the Tower of the Gods as the 3rd dungeon of the game, and included water elements to retain the OOT formula of: 3 dungeons of Grass, Fire, Water. Master Sword. Rest of the Game.
As for the second dungeon... I got nothing. I'd like to think that it was the Ghost Ship, considering how much the game hypes it up, only for it to turn out to be a gloomy submarine interior.
@@mendaix All ears. Wind Waker's my favorite game of all time.
@@mendaixWhile that would explain why she's still with the pirates in the ending of the game, unlike the Windfall Girls. I couldn't bring myself having to escort her through that, with her potentially getting "hurt". Though I'd be lying if that wouldn't make for some amazing symbolism, considering the events of the game.
Another potential candidate could've been David Jr. too, considering he and his dad were after the treasure that was on the Ghost Ship.
Tower of the Gods being later would be a plausible idea considering its complexity and I can see them moving it just for the puddle of water there lol.
Ghost ship wise, it is possible...and as I mentioned, it is possible the second cut dungeon could have been the Sandship Skyward Sword, thus in this instance maybe that was going to be the Ghost Ship originally?
Good theory man!
@@mendaix Perhaps someone should make a video for Wind Waker, similar to David V. Kimball's "What if Melee had 6 more months of development?" video.
Aryll singing would be interesting, considering she has her own unused theme in the game. Not sure about her being connected to Zelda though, since that would imply Toon Link's family is (was) royalty, which he isn't. That belongs to Tetra.
@@mendaix Inb4 Aryll, a little island girl, must prove to the Goddesses' that she is worthy of being a sage, with her singing. Like her brother, an average boy with a lot of courage, had to prove that he was worthy of succeeding the Hero of Time.
Random but, at 7:18 it almost looks like links eyes move
Neat
So, does no one think the cut dungeons were used in the ds games?
So there is no actual leaked prototype areas and stuff like with ocarina? Just speculation on these dungeons?
Pretty much but there is definitely some evidence for a water based one based on what I provided
I appreciate all of these well-made detailed videos. Curious if you have anything for Twilight Princess, Skyward or Tears of the Kingdom in the works? @@TheObsessiveGamer
@@tyg-zw7nn my plan is to tackle every Zelda game actually. After Wind Waker, Twilight Princess is the plan actually
Very cool. How in the world did Ocarina get leaked so much more than these other games. So we don't really have a beta disc of windwaker.@@TheObsessiveGamer
Cool bro
Thanks bro!
You welcome
The Zora were meant to get turned into the Ruto BECAUSE they weren't supposed to be able to survive in flooded Hyrule.
The whole game is a story of burying history instead of learning from it and moving on. That was the mistake Ganondorf made, that was the mistake the king of Hyrule made, and that was even the mistake the descendants of the Hylians made because they kept dressing up boys as Link in hopes of finding a new hero (despite there being no need for one). So even the Gods were pretty much trying to bury the tragedy of Ganon's return rather than dealing with it, and they wanted to make sure that nobody except a hero could return to it.
It's quite ironic then how much the game calls back to Ocarina of Time specifically, almost as if Nintendo themselves couldn't let go.
As for the cut water temple - it does exist. It's the Tower of the Gods. It even has the whole raising and lowering water gimmick. They probably figured it was best to rework the water temple into that one rather than having TWO water-based dungeons in a row. Another reason why they cut it was probably also because if you can dive underwater once, you'd have to be able to dive EVERYWHERE. And that'd have opened up way too many possibilities, especially on the ocean.
By the way, when Nintendo said "Some of the cut Wind Waker dungeons were put into later games", I highly doubt they meant that they did so 1:1. The Goron Mines definitely seem like the cut Stovepipe Island, but there's a similar area in Phantom Hourglass for the DS, which also has a ghost ship as a dungeon. So they reused the IDEAS rather than the whole designs.
The 'sea creature' in that 'underwater scene' from the Hyrule Historia, was Jabun. The excerpt you (somehow) incorrectly quoted said 'Only Jabun, the *sea creature* at the lower right that resembles an anglerfish and lives on the far side of Outset Island, is seen in the game.'
I don't know how you manage to unintentionally cherry pick information that badly.
You are misreading it. It states that this is an unused underwater scene and that Jabun is the only angler fish we see in the game. As in there was going to be more than one angler fish in the game as such.
As well when ti says Jabun on the lower right, if you look at the full page, it literally is a concept art of Jabun there, seperate from this OTHER fish here.. That there is not Jabun
I like the beta version
Likewise :P
Zora’s are cute 🥰
Why do I have to wait god? Let me see it now. I beg of you Jesus.
only 2.5 hrs to go. Almost there lol
This made me so disappointed because I always felt that the game felt a bit incomplete with two missing dungeons, and now it makes complete sense. My favorite element is Water, so i always look forward to water related areas and bosses, so the fact that Jabun just gives you the pearl always made me feel like the water dungeon was cut, which made me so upset since the game that revolved around the sea didn't include a water dungeon. Now seeing the potential boss and Water Boots that were cut, I'm so sad it didn't even make it to the HD version. It would've been my favorite Toon Link game if it had included this dungeon, and the third missing Temple from the Earth and Wind duo, which also felt incomplete without their third missing dungeon. The game is still good and it has a lot of content, but these two missing dungeons would've definitely made it feel like a complete game. My favorite Toon Link game is still Phantom Hourglass, since it felt more complete and I really enjoyed the bosses and the Ocean theme around it more, just wish they decided to make it for the Wii haha. Even though Wind Waker will always make me upset about these cut dungeons (especially the water dungeon literally being cut while being around the ocean💀) it's still a good game and my second favorite Toon game. :) Also, I'm pretty sure that potential water boss in the underwater scene is just early Jabun, it even says so in the description. :v
>my favorite element is Water
Water Temple fans unite! :)
Yeah I really wish those were still restored in some ways. I don't care if they were reused, would have just loved to have the Wind Waker versions in.
No offense, but this video is old news. Nintendo is never going to tell us specifically what was cut. It’s a waste of time to speculate on it without any official word.
Doesn't matter. Alot cover this old stuff even to this day and clearly people are watching with how this channel grew cause of it.