i came out if the papal church and joined the SDA because through the HOLY SPIRIT led me .Two things i could not comprehend in that church was , why did we go to mass on sunday and why is there three gods ? I found my answers in the SDA church , now iam finding pastors are teaching there are three gods which is puzzeling to me, i have stopped going to church there seems to be a lot of confusion in many matters now . I will stick with my bible and the teachings of ellen white and the early writtings may the love of JESUS and his spirit give you wisdom .
Gordo God bless you brother. I won't give you my history, it's too long, but I greatly admire you for following Jesus Christ, no matter what the cost. You are in the position of being able to see falseness because you can OUT of falseness. I can clearly see that there is no other global church that has followed scripture correctly HOWEVER, it has become corrupted. No surprise there. That's warfare. And it was prophesied. Don't fall away, brother, when the persecution comes. I hope you will pray for me to be right with God and Jesus Christ. I will pray for you. Well, here's a quick view of my history. I was baptized as SDA after I attended a Kenneth Cox crusade. I knew what I had heard was correct. But I hadn't been raised going to church and i jist went back to my usual life. Then, 37 years later, God made it clear to me to pick a side as I had transgressed for too long and I too many ways. I chose HIS side. I got ReBaptized & have only missed church one time I the three years since. I told God I would honor His Sabbath Day as He commanded & I would attend church to keep me on track also. But I found what I can only describe as a lack of the Holy Spirit. Not completely. And then as I researched I found how Christmas, Easter, and Valentine's day ate pagan in origin and actually against God. This Christmas I decided to not celebrate these things anymore. Communion is what i do to celebrate the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I've been researching things and I never REALLY understood tge trinity doctrine but I accepted it. When I was baptized in 1981, the trinity had been added to the sda fundamentals the year before. When I recently learned that, all kinds of red flags went up in my head! I dont think leaving the church is correct for me right now. But it will go against my logic to stay when I finally establish fully I my mind the trinity is wrong. I'm not the studious type unfortunately. But I will research enough to allow God to open my eyes. Idk why I'm telling you all this. I guess it's because I wanted to encourage you in your walk with God because you can out of great darkness (Catholicism) and because-maybe selfishly- I'd like your prayers for God to open my eyes and clear the confusion about this. Another problem I have with SDA is the abortion position. Again, the position was not always that way. That old evil one has infiltrated. But your coming out of darkness is encouraging to me and I pray you keep finding and following Jesus Christ always. Hope we see each other rising at the second coming of our Savior. 🙏
@@rickhinojosa5455 The S.D.A. church and Ellen White have never understood or been filled with the Holy Spirit. Don't get me wrong, many charismatic and Pentecostal churches have a false experience they call the Holy Spirit, but that does not excuse denying God's spiritual power and being spiritually dead.
Worship Him who made Heavens and the Earth. Fear Him that the Bible teaches. Trinitarian doctrines creeping into the Adventist church is a total contradiction to the Bible truth.
Best video I have seen in two or three years. I've searched the scriptures and I don't need to try to prove to anyone where I stand in regards to the trinity. My position is the trinity is a false pagan belief that will cause many Christians to miss out on salvation. It boils down to this when Christ opens the book of Life and he sees our hearts every one of us should while we're alive and able to think with the brains God gave us. We should ask ourselves what are we going to say to Christ can we defend our position. If you believe in the trinity there is no way it is not possible it will never happen that anyone can prove this ludicrous erroneous idea or methodology in regards to this Trinity but if Christ were to ask me why I don't believe in the trinity and I believe in him and his father in heaven and their spirit I have so many Bible verses in the Old testament and New testament interviews from our pioneers that proves the trinity does not make any sense and can't be proven. I'm not a pastor I'm not a Bible scholar I'm a sinner with common sense and a lot of people really should humble themselves and read the Bible and listen to the holy Spirit speak to them and start practicing what you're going to say to Christ on judgment Day. I'm not judging anyone Jesus will do that. But right this second if Jesus asked me why I believe like I do I can confidently tell him why I believe it improve it with scripture if you think it's going to be difficult to prove your case in regards to the trinity you really should start thinking about it now you're never promised a tomorrow. If you want to follow the crowd and jump off the bridge like they're doing go for it and do it. If you think well right now I'm having fun enjoying life I'll get things right with God and I'll follow what's right when I get a little older good luck to you. I've been a radiology technologist 30 years and I've worked with the forensic pathologist in the hospitals in other words I would x-ray people after they died to find out why they died. When I first started that job I remember asking myself the same question every single day as I looked into the eyes of someone that does not have a soul it's just a body. I would wonder I wonder if that person was ready to meet Christ or they waiting and having fun and then later in life they would make their decision. I don't know the answers I don't know what their thoughts were the last 10 seconds of their lives but I've x-rayed infants children teens adults and the elderly the reason I even brought this up is because I'm guilty. When I was younger I was one of those people that wanted to not be a Christ follower I was an Adventist that's what I called myself but the things I did were of the world and to be honest even as bad as I was I always felt guilty when I was sinning but it was a whole lot worse on Friday nights and Saturdays when Christ says he knocks on the door to your heart he's not joking but I learned he knocks a lot harder on Friday nights and Saturdays. I've been very very lucky if I had died at any moment during those years I already know that my name would not be in the book of life there's no way if you're willing to gamble with salvation you can gamble with it but when you gamble there's always that chance you'll lose if you seriously love Christ and seriously want to be with him in heaven don't wait I'm making that choice. I wrote a song years ago when I came back to the church and I called it I'll praise his name I'll never forget the last verse of the song I wrote it went like this. If I should die before I wake will it be heaven or hell because it's my soul at stake
I am saddened to hear that you as a SDA pastor would accept this decade old Arian heresy. It is plain and clear that their teaching is not biblical. If you have any questions about the heavenly Godhead, I would be more than happy to answer you.
@@ChristAdventwitness please study this properly. Arius had the truth and he was murdered for it. Read the history. So you know why the three kingdoms, the three horns were destroyed by the papacy? Most don't even know this. They were all followers of Arius. By being a Nicean, which you are, you condone what they did to him and the kingdoms. Jesus is the literal Son of God, he is not role playing or just acting a role. Please consider that you might be deceived. I have fought against this for a long time, giving all the arguments you want to give me. But I'm open and you're welcome to share. Are you willing to do the same?
@@johansteyn3756 You said, "Arius had the truth and he was murdered for it." Arius, the 4th century A.D thinker and writer, taught that Christ had a beginning. There must have been a time, therefore, when he did not exist. So he denied the eternal preexistence of Jesus Christ. "There was a time when Jesus was not" was Arius's classic declaration. In other words, Arius and his followers held that Christ did not exist before the Father brought Him into existence. Arians have also consistently denied the personhood of the Holy Spirit. He reduced Jesus Christ to a created being like you and me! And this work of evil has led millions to a false gospel ever since. If Jesus was a created being, His death could not atone for my sins! How did he die? 'It was a mysterious death. No thug had attacked the theologian to lay him low. No sadist had slit open his body. No weapon in human hand did the deed. It just seemed to happen. Might it have been the direct vengeance of God? The historian Socrates was inclined to think so.' Many historians have compared the mysterious death of Arius the philosopher to recall the spontaneous disembowelment of an earlier enemy in Christianity, Judas, who fell face first, burst open, and died according to the Acts of the Apostles (Acts 1:16-19)
@@ChristAdventwitness please study this matter further. It is very clear that he was murdered. Don't just read Roman Catholic historians recount. Yes he did believe that Jesus had a beginning. Then people just assume He was created, just as Russel did. I have two sons, yet I did not create them. Do you have children? Did you make them? Make and born is not the same thing. Please also study the prophecy of Daniel 7 where he proohecied that three kingdoms would be uprooted by a small horn coming out, the Antichrist power. Until 538AD the papacy completely destroyed the kingdoms. Why? Because they were followers of Arius.
@@ChristAdventwitness this is what Arius believed: Heb 1:5-6 MKJV1962 5 For to which of the angels did He say at any time, You are My Son, this day I have begotten You? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? 6 And again, when He brings in the First-born into the world, He says, And let all [the] angels of God worship Him. This is why he was killed. Unless you think the bishops prayer were answered exactly as he prayed that Arius must die. Is that what you believe?
I felt a chill watching this. It is a precious truth indeed. The church must know this as a witness in order for Jesus to return again. God will bring out a remnant that holds firm to this truth. Thank you so much for your ministry!
Thanks so much servants of God. Glory be to God! The most urgent need of the seventh day Adventist church at present time is the correct understanding of the early Adventist's understanding of the Godhead and unlearn the pagan doctrine of Trinity( Catholism) which has swept almost the entire Church to worship the unknown god. May God open the eyes of these beautiful souls so that they can see the strong delusion in which they're in. May God bless you and your ministry.
U should start by unlearning the bible , its totally catholic book, funny things about feeble, brain damaged minded trashes , are the more u things wants to prove something against the catholic church , the more u are becoming one . think about it .
I've already commented on this video but, after reading several more comments just now, I'm impressed to make this additional comment: I fear that there are two groups that are being misled on this subject: a) people who are following the nineteenth-century pioneers of the advent movement and b) people who are following the current leadership of the SdA organization. Please, if you consider yourself to be in either of those two groups, undertake to study this subject for yourself and see whether you then agree with the comments I have made previously in the comment section. Much of the confusion has to do with what language we choose to use on this subject, some of which language creates unnecessary barriers to dialog, not only on this subject but other subjects as well.
"The Holy Spirit is Christ's REPRESENTATIVE but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could NOT be in every place personally THEREFORE it was for their interest that He (Christ) should go to the Father, and SEND the Spirit to be His successor on earth" (Desire of Ages pg 669)
I surely wish I could like 👍 this video more than just once... 😏 More, More & Thankyou! Praise the Lord..! *³ And this is Life Eternal, that they might know Thee The Only True God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent.* *-John 17:3*
Amen! The truth is so liberating, as Romans 1:17 tells us, "... For therein is the righteousness of GOD revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, the just shall live by faith...."
I am listening to this teaching every now and then, and have these sincere questions: did Jesus came down on Himself when He was baptized? What is the unpardonable sin: against Chirst or against Christ? Is Christ the "Other" Comforter too? What about 1John 5:7? What about E White statements of "the Trio", and all the other statements regarding the Holy Spirit not being Christ? On what bases does the devil counterfeits his trinity if there is not a genuine? More questions from both Bible and SOP in my head.
These questions are legitimate and you will eventually receive an understanding as you continue to search this out. Satan's counterfeit of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is complete agreement on either side that there are three in the godhead, but there is disagreement regarding the nature of those three. Even modalism incorporates all three so Satan has the freedom to manipulate the three anyway he chooses. In paganism's trinity I believe there is typically a tri-theistic godhead. Non-trinny's are Trinitarians in the sense that they believe in the 3 persons of the godhead (with persons defined in the proper terms), the heavenly trio, etc. It's 4am so I'm not totally with it but fee free to give me feedback. Blessings
It is my first time to come across this information. If possible , may I please get the web where I can download the pioneers fundamental beliefs . Thank you. God bless.
@@AlineLegault “Every member of the human family, except Adam, has had parents, and every one has had beginning of days; and indeed, with two exceptions, everyone has had end of life. Even the angels of God have all had beginning of days, so that they would be as much excluded by this language as the members of the human family. And as to the Son of God, he would be excluded also, for he had God for his Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days.” {J.N. Andrews, RH, September 7, 1869}
It’s not about what the pioneers believed then, but what the Bible and the SOP say. Hebrews 1:13,14 - “But to which of the angels said He at anytime, . . . Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation.” Here it says that angels are ministering spirits. SOP says that The Holy Spirit has not been revealed about His nature, but He is a being, a person.
@@jtomas3611 God is not an essence that manifests himself in 3 beings. He's a personal spiritual being. The Holy Spirit points to Jesus, Jesus points us to The Father, The One True God. 2 point specifically back to 1.
@Game Master Good verse but that still points to Jehova as a personal spiritual being. If you seen him you've seen the father because he's the representitive of the father. Being 1 means in mind character and purpose, I reccomend you research what sheliak in Hebrew. (1 Cor 15:24-28) It's clear the bible teaches monotheism because God doesn't have to give anything back because he's the owner of all things.
BRILLIANT..... Every aspect of this presentation is so clear. A person would have to really work at pleasing other people in order to not understanding this very simple, very clear, truth about Our Heavenly Father and His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON Christ Jesus.
Are these people teaching that there is No holy Spirit? Ellen White wrote that the holy spirit is a person, with a personality.. They are picking and choosing what and how they view her writings on the Holy Spirit.. Besides, the early writings were sometimes changed, as they were still learning, and studying.. They first believed in the 2300 year prophesy, but then had to discard that idea. And there were other beliefs that they changed as they studied, including the 1844 day of Atonement understanding.. At Jesus' baptism, the Father, and the holy spirit, were present, showing there are 3 persons of the Godhead.. People are Baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit also.. It seems that the holy spirit is not a being in the human form like Jesus came, but none the less, the spirit is a being of some kind.. How can we mortals comprehend what the Holy Spirit is? Our minds are limited to this world, and know nothing of God's world, or the spiritual world.. Check out some other SDA youtube videos by other teachers, like Doug Batchelor, Prophesy again TV with Andrew Henriquez, Stephen Bohr, Saving Health Ministries with David House, Dwayne Lemon, or Amazing Word Ministries, just to mention a few.. Look at both sides of the Holy Spirit issue.. Even the book, 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA church, says the Church believes in the 3 persons of the Godhead..
@@tomk2005 Hello brother there is no such teaching like that. We believe that there is Holy Spirit which is Spirit of the Father and His Son. Our foundation is in the word of GOD and not in the man's creed. We can know what the Holy Spirit is, based upon what GOD reveals in His Word. You can read this two quotations below: Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. "The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof". He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. {14MR 23.3} It is not essential for you to know and be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, and the Comforter is the Holy Ghost, "the Spirit of truth, which the Father shall send in My name." "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him, for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you" [John 14:16, 17]. This refers to the omnipresence of the Spirit of Christ, called the Comforter. {14MR 179.2}
@@ivan7895ify, Hello Brother in Christ.. I will believe EGW before I believe a non prophet.. She says that the Holy Spirit is a person, with a personality, and I believe her inspired words of God in her writings, over mortal man's word.. Like the founders said, "show me from the bible my error".. There is No clear verse that says the Holy Spirit is Not a being, no more than there is a clear verse that says that Sunday is now the Sabbath day of the Lord, or that the Commandments were done away with.. Also I cannot figure out how the holy spirit in the form of a dove, is Jesus landing on Himself, for that makes No sense.. The bible also refers to the holy spirit, and the comforter, as "He", not "it".. You can make a lot of scripture fit your teaching, but there is too much against it to make me believe it.. Also if you say that EGW was incorrect in her writing on this point, then we could not believe any other of her writings either. And the same would go for the Bible.. Either it is all God's inspiration, or it is not. God does Not make errors, or change His mind..
@@tomk2005 Matthew 3:16 is clear that the Spirit of GOD and not GOD the Spirit descend from heaven. There is no single verse in the bible says that Holy Spirit is another being than God and His Son. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and Christ (Romans 8:9) I also gave you two witness from Spirit of Prophecy before, that says the Holy Spirit is Christ himself, because it is His Spirit. This quotation below is talking about baptism of Jesus, and Ellen White clearly says that Holy Spirit which came down from heaven is His Father's Glory, and why dove? Because it is the symbol of character of Christ Never before have the angels listened to such a prayer. They are eager to bear to their loved Commander a message of assurance and comfort. But no; the Father Himself will answer the petition of His Son. Direct from the throne issue the beams of His glory. The heavens are opened, and upon the Saviour's head descends a dovelike form of purest light, - fit emblem of Him, the meek and lowly One - DA 112.1
In reference to 1John 5:7 I think we non-Trinitarian’s are misunderstanding this Biblical passage especially when we include the next verse. Verse 8 reads; “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” Here, we see it is talking about three different substances all having unity. At verse 7 we read; “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, (the word is Christ) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Again, it is speaking the same as verse 8. Verse 7 is showing us unity of the Father, His Word, (Christ) and their spirit, the Holy Ghost. And YES, THESE THREE ARE ONE. Like Christ tells us, “I and the Father are one.” How are they one? Through Holy Spirit. So, will someone please tell me why we should read this as supporting the Trinity? I just don’t see it when I read it in context.
Do a search on this text. If you have access to a paper copy of the SDA Commentary look at !John 1:5 Papre because it has been removed from digital copies.
I'd recommend a book called "In Defense of the Authenticity of 1 John 5:7" by C.H. Pappas. This will give you a deeper understanding of the subtleties of the original language that leave the meaning beyond doubt. The question is, what did the author (John) mean by "One"? Can't we take something from John's words in John 1:1? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Notice the capitalization of the 'W' in Word. Note also in John 20:28 the words that John chooses to capture between Jesus and doubting Thomas: "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God".
I'm not an expert on Trinity, none Trinity, but thanks to you and other I'm becoming one. I screenshot every one of the quotes presented. I'm not really sure how this effects the Gospel, but this will surely rock the church like no other controversy we have ever had in our history. The GC in session is only a year away.
Brother Bill I encourage you to stay with the minority anti-trinitarians who are faithful and still holding on to the teachings of the early pioneer adventists. The truth has always been with the minority & not the majority. Read the bible, Enoch, Noah, Lot, Elijah, Jeremiah, Daniel & the 3 Hebrew boys, John the Baptist, Christ & 12 disciples, the Reformers, Waldensians, Huguenots, it was a minority against a majority. The weight of evidence is overwhelmingly on the side of the minority because Satan has deceived the whole world into worshipping him through sunday & trinity doctrine. Both are sister deceptions manufactured by Rome.
@@TheBeijingbill The SDA Church has changed gods in its history. The church of God is not a denomination name or building but the faithful men and women who keep the commandments of the only true God and His only begotten Son. The bible tells us that we are the temple of God. Thus, you don't need a denomination to save you but Christ alone, no wonder Christ by His Spirit is present when two or three are gathered to worship the true God. Thus, our message is to return back to the true God of our pioneers because somewhere in our church history, she changed gods. Thus, the true original Adventists are the anti-trinitarians & not the trinitarians of today.
“The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325... This doctrine destroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical history might well cause every believer in that doctrine to blush. {J. N. Andrews, March 6, 1855, Review and Herald, Vol. 6, No. 24, P. 185} “...and as the son of God, he would be excluded also, for he had God for his Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days. So that if we use Paul’s language in an absolute sense, it would be impossible to find but one being in the universe, and that is God the Father, who is without father, or mother, or descent, or beginning of days, or end of life.” {Review and Herald Sept. 7, 1869}. J.N.Andrews - showing clearly that the trinity teaching is not biblical “J.N. Andrews reiterated the common Adventist understanding that God the Father is the supreme source of all life in the universe. In 1874 he writes: “That God is the fountain and source of immortality is plain from the statement of Paul. He speaks thus of God the Father: ‘Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting; Amen.’ 1 Tim. 6:16. This text is evidently designed to teach that the self existent God is the only being who, of himself, possesses this wonderful nature. Others may possess it as derived from him, but he alone is the fountain of immortality Our Lord Jesus Christ is the source of this life to us. ‘For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.’ John 5:26. ‘As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.’ John 6:57. The Father gives us this life in His Son. ‘And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.’ 1Jn 5:11, 12. These Scriptures do clearly indicate that Christ is the source of endless life, and that those only have this who have Christ.” {Review and Herald, Jan. 27, 1874 p.52}. Elder J N Andrews was one of Adventism’s founders and leaders in the highest sense. He is well respected today throughout the Seventh-Day Adventist church. The churches 1st university bears the record of his name and shows the perception of scholarship which has been associated with his Biblical Exegesis.
My wife and I were born and raised in the Midwest. We met in Iowa, were married in Iowa and our children were born in Iowa. In 1982, Sally accepted a position at the University of Utah Medical Center and we didn’t move back to the Midwest until 2007. Between ‘82 and ‘07, I had many conversions with LdS missionaries, perhaps none more interesting than in 2007. After assuring two young missionaries on our porch that I had seen several presentations of the origin of the LdS Church, they accepted my invitation to come into our home. Their presentation, as is customary, included a number of questions. As had been the case with previous encounters with LdS missionaries in our home, these two told me my answers to their questions were different from any answers they had heard before. But then one of them asked whether they could return at a later date because he thought maybe I’d be able to answer a question he had about a recent encounter between the missionaries and a Lutheran pastor. We set up an appointment. When they returned, the missionaries told me they had visited a Lutheran pastor in his office. He seemed quite friendly during the introductions and small talk but his demeanor changed drastically when they told him they were there to tell him about how the gospel had been restored. In fact, he was barely civil toward them after that. The missionaries wondered whether I could explain that phenomenon. I asked the missionaries whether they had any idea what Lutherans and other protestants mean when they use the word, “gospel”. The missionaries looked at each other and quickly realized they had NO idea. Why? Because the LdS “gospel” is the doctrine that spiritual authority was lost after the death of the apostles of Jesus, that it was “restored through Joseph Smith and his successors” and that, therefore, the only way to obtain spiritual authority in the twenty-first century is from or through the officers of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So I explained to the missionaries that protestants generally capitalize the word, “Gospel” when referring to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John but use the lowercase “gospel” to refer to one or both of two other things a) the story of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels and/or b) the doctrine that sin has separated humans from our creator and that Jesus provides reconciliation between God and humankind. What, exactly is “the Adventist Message”? More specifically, what do the lay members of the SdA denomination think “the Adventist Message” is? Some undoubtedly think it is a “message” about a religious organization. Mark Finley (in a televised series of “meetings” in 2008) expressed this perspective when he said, “We agree (with a papist in Ireland) there is only one decision we need to make - Which is the right Church?” I’ve only heard one Adventist answer the question this way (but there are probably others) - “(The Adventist Message is) that Satan is our sin-bearer." There are probably many more who think the Adventist Message is that if anyone realizes the biblical sabbath is the seventh day of the week and continues to worship the Lord on the first day of the week, that person is doomed to the lake of fire. Is “the Adventist Message” different from what most protestants mean by “the gospel”? No. And yes. No in the sense that most (probably all) SdA believe sin has separated humans from our creator and that Jesus provides reconciliation between God and humankind. Yes in the sense that “the Adventist Message” includes much more. The primary adventist emphasis is (or once was) the purpose of the second advent of Jesus. (Some members of the SdA organization fail to understand the connection between the phrase “second advent” and the word, “Adventist” in the name of the organization) but what else is included in “the Adventist Message” depends on whom you ask. Is the exact nature of God or how we explain his nature part of “the Adventist Message”? The people who made this video and most of the people who have posted in this comment section seem to think so. I don’t think so. I think it HELPS to understand the nature of God in the way I understand him but, if there is a way a person’s understanding of the nature of God affects his ability to understand the purpose of the second advent of Jesus, I’m not aware of it. That Jesus can never be a political king - i.e. that he can never use or encourage his followers to use coercion - is far more relevant to the purpose of his second advent than the exact relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Evaluating and interpreting later revelation by earlier revelation is far more relevant to the purpose of the second advent than the exact relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Papists are wrong to be followers of the pope. Not all Lutherans are followers of Luther but those who do are wrong too. Not all methodists are followers of John Wesley but those who do are wrong too. Not all Seventh-day Adventists are followers of Ellen White, James White, John Nevins Andrews, Joseph Bates, J.N. Loughborough, J.H. Waggoner or Uriah Smith but those who do are wrong too. I have plenty of criticisms of the Seventh-day Adventist organization but I think most of the people who are making videos critical of the organization are simply trying to gain followers for themselves. I prefer to be a follower of Jesus so I sure don’t want anyone to think of himself as a follower of yours truly.
We have listened to pioneers. Fine. What about the prophetess? Whose authority will you follow, the pioneers' or the prophetess'? All the texts that appear to make Jesus less than God the Father, or to be a being generated of God are really against a proper understanding of the plan of salvation and the divinity of Jesus. The Bible tells us that there is one God and that there is no other God before me. And guess who that God speaking was? None other than Jesus. God gave us EW to put matters straight. We do not have to hold the Catholic concept of the Trinity which is actually different than the biblical one, or the Godhead of the Bible. Let the Bible speak for itself with the illumination of the SOP today and you are safe. I admonish you all to focus on the Bible and the SOP and there is little room for error. Blessings.
Ron Henderson: What did Ellen herself say about the testimony of pioneers of the early SDA church? "The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of re-organization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES THAT HAVE SUSTAINED THE WORK FOR THE PAST FIFTY YEARS WOULD BE ACCOUNTED AS ERROR. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath, of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure"
I am very thankful for this video; clear presentation of the error of the trinity belief that unfortunately is one of the SDA fundamental beliefs. I was skeptical at first and didn’t want to accept this truth; the more I watched and the more I saw supporting biblical teachings, I could not deny this as truth; indeed it is truth! Praise God for revealing more truth to me. When we live up to the light we have, God will give us more light 🙌🏼✔️🙏🏼!!!
How do you know it's False. One Almighty God consisting in 3 persons. This is the stated position of the Protestant Churches. The SDA Pioneers were really really bad at interpreting Scripture. 🙂
THE DESIRE OF AGES, PAGE 530 "Still seeking to give a true direction to her faith, Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life. “He that believeth in Me,” said Jesus, “though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die."
Life, Original, Unborrowed, Underived. “Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life.” - The Desire of Ages, page 530, (1898). Based on the mentioned quotation in Ellen White's 1898 publication of The Desire of Ages, some scholars claim that though Ellen White was initially non-trinitarian, she later became a trinitarian. They say, “Here is evidence. Christ's life is original. Therefore, He has always been and, therefore, He is co-eternal with the Father. Also, His life is Unborrowed and Underived. Therefore, He could not have been begotten of the the Father in eternity. Rather, He is self-existent and has always existed.” The problem with their reasoning is this. Trinitarians have red statements such as the one mentioned and immediately formed opinions and reached conclusions that can be proven wrong by other inspired statements related to the topic, sometimes some statements from the very same article or book. Their conclusions are always hasty and incorrect, which readily-available documentation can show. The Spirit of Prophecy will explain itself very clearly. So what does that statement mentioned really tell us? It is always wise to read a quotation in question in its original context. “In him was life; and the life was the light of men” (John 1 verse 4). It is not physical life that is here specified, but immortality, the life which is exclusively the property of God. The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual receives. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Life-giver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. “I lay it down of myself” (John 10 verse 18), He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it; it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as his personal Saviour. “This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17 verse 3). This is the open fountain of life for the world.” (1 Selected Messages, page 296). From the full context we plainly learn that “original, Unborrowed, underived” life can be given. It will be given to all those who believe. This is in harmony with the words of Christ, when He said that God the Father had given Him life: “For as the Father has life in Himself; so has He also given to the Son to have life in Himself.” (John 5 verse 26.) What life would would the Son have been given? The life which was the Father's own original, Unborrowed, Underived life.
We know that in the Scripture quoted, Christ is talking about eternal life. To ascertain this fact, all we need to ask ourselves the question. “What kind of life does God the Father has in Himself?” Reason tell us it certainly cannot be mortal life. It can only be immortal life. Scripture states as much about the Father in first Timothy 6 verse 16. “Who only hath immortality.” As human offspring receive mortal life from their parents, so this immortal life was given to Christ by virtue of His divine birth, having been begotten with that life. Thus the Father's life is also the Son's life, through inheritance. God the Father is the “source of all life.” Ministry of Healing, page 397, “of whom are all things.” first Corinthians 8 verse 6. Christ inherited the Father's life by birth. “I came forth from the Father.” John 16 verse 28. The one true God is both the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Being the Father's only begotten Son, Christ naturally is the only one who has the same life as God His Father, whose life is rightly described as “original, unborrowed, underived.” Christ inherited that same “original, unborrowed, underived” life that the Source of all life possessed to give Him. Indeed Christ received all things from the Father. He received the Father's life as His own, and it is the Father's life that flows through Christ to all who believe in the Son. It is the Father's life that we receive through Christ. “All things Christ received from God, but took to give. So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all, through the Son it returns, in praise and joyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all.” (Desire of Ages, page 21.) “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life,” Christ declares. “No one comes to the Father but by me.” Christ is invested with power to give life to all creatures.” (Review and Herald, April 5, 1906.) So what kind of life does He have the authority to give to all of His redeemed ones? The Father's “original, unborrowed, underived life,” which flows from the Father to us, a life which is immortal. Wonderful reality! “As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.” John 17 verse 2. “These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” first John 5 verse 13. The true explanation of that quotation from the Desire of Ages does not cast doubt or confusion on the passages in the writings of Ellen White or the Bible, but, instead, each one clarifies and complements the other to lead to an understanding that inspires faith, that we may “believe on the Son of God,” and have the assurance that we have eternal life. Nothing on earth can compare to the riches of that promise to us. “The Word of God contains our life insurance policy. To eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God means to study the Word and to carry that Word into the life in obedience to all its precepts. Those who thus partake of the Son of God become partakers of the divine nature, one with Christ. They breathe a holy atmosphere, in which only the soul can truly live. They carry in their lives an assurance of the holy principles received from the Word-their lives are worked by the power of the Holy Spirit, and they have an earnest of the immortality that will be theirs through the death and resurrection of Christ. Should the earthly body decay, the principles of their faith sustain them, for they are partakers of the divine nature. Because Christ was raised from the dead, they grasp the pledge of their resurrection, and eternal life is their reward. This truth is an eternal truth, because Christ Himself taught it. He has engaged to raise the righteous dead, for He gave His life for the life of the world. “As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me” (John 6 verse 57). “I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger” (verse 35).” Upward Look, page 78.)
We have received some responses from our short survey. The question was, “Is the One God who is a unity of three persons also a person himself? That is, will we see the one in three god in heaven when we get there? Does this triune god have the throne of his own besides that of the Father and of the Son?” The responses are very conflicting and confusing. Please consider them for yourself. 1. A pastor said yes, the three persons make up one person. Asked to clarify how, the pastor has not come back to us yet. 2. A theologian said, they do not make one person, it is impossible to make one person from three persons. The Father is the unity of the trinity, and He is the One God. That raises many questions. If the Father is the One God, where is the triune God? How can the Father be a unity of himself and two others, to make one, if he is already the one? 3. Another person whose title is unknown said that the three persons of the trinity do not form one person. They are One God only in terms of having one purpose. 4. From our previous experiences, we have heard some say the One God of the Bible is the Godhead, i.e. just a divinity or deity, without further clarity on what that is? 5. Another theologian said that the One God who is a unity of three persons is not material or physical. That means the One God is an abstraction. In other words, he is a theory, or a concept in the minds of those who believe in him. We question. The Bible refers to the One God as “He” and he speaks. How can an abstraction, a theory or a concept in the mind be referred to as He? Does a concept speak? 6. Another person said the One God is a mystery, thus leaving the One God undefined. Sounds like a quick way for human wisdom to escape accountability for the confusion that human wisdom has created (akin to pleading insanity in court). We raise an issue with this unexplained mystery of human wisdom. The trinity doctrine, that is put together by human minds gives us the triune God. Thus, those who made the trinity doctrine must be able to explain it. In other words, we are not questioning the Bible, but the trinity doctrine, because the trinity doctrine is a product of human wisdom. I don’t know about you, but this sounds like a lot of confusion. It seems there is no one with a clear understanding of what this human creation called the triune god is? To those who say it is a mystery we question. Why should human wisdom create a doctrine which it cannot explain and cannot understand? Is that not a reason to discard the doctrine and return to that only which the Bible says, that the is One God, the Father, who has Only One begotten Son. The One God, the Father has and is also a Spirit? No three equal persons making up confusion? Regards, The Rock Fortress Ministries.
well done i am a member of a reform group in saint lucia and have been trying to show this to my brethren smh its hard for them to belive it i pray God that he open our hearts
I am sorry, you have not carefully examined their teachings according to the law and testomony (Isaiah 8:20) under the guidance of heavenly teacher, the Holy Spirit! Pl. pray and study the Bible. The true Adventism believes in 'one true God' exists in THREE ETERNAL PERSONS, thats the heavenly Trio (three persons). God is NOT one person as some trying to tell you. In the heavenly Godhead, each person is not 'a' God,; it is the three persons that are God, or make up the Godhead. It is like having a government, which is a singular word but made up of a number of members. No single member is the government, but all makes up that government as individual members.
[ Thankfully Brothers and Sisters For Thise presentations Of MESSAGES GIVEN BY THE HOLY GHOST IN THE SUPREME NAME OF OUR ALMIGHTY HEAVENLY LIVING GOD JESUS CHRIST OUR LIVING POWERFUL WAY, LIGHT, TRUTH, REEDEMER AND JUSTICE ETERNALLY ]
Amen🙏🏼❤️❤️🌍🇺🇬 KJV Jeremiah 6:16-17 16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. 17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
Our local church of which I was a member recently split. The portion I am a member of has recently come to understand the truth concerning the trinity and its origins. As stated in the video, this doctrine was added to the early church by the council of Nice. Paul himself said the spirit of anti-Christ was already at work. We know that the end times will hold strong delusion, not just for the Godless masses, but most importantly, for many apostate Christians. We MUST search the scriptures for ourselves prayerfully asking for the leading of the father's Spirit. Remember there is only a remnant that will be saved. Most will be lost. If the doctrine of the trinity is held by the majority, then I would be seriously and prayerfully looking at it again.
The most important Adventist is left out. Mrs Ellen White. Read in Great Controversy under the chapter: "Snares of Satan" from the statement " Another dangerous error is the doctrine that denies the deity of Christ..." The very text that gave the JWs their name also applies to Adventist Unitarians: "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. Isaiah 43:10.
I’m 77. My parents were adventists before I was born. I was “always” aware that there were members of the SdA organization who were less protestant than I was but I “always” thought of my parents and myself as adventist protestants. It wasn't until about 2008 that I discovered that there were members of the SdA organization who didn’t consider themselves protestant at all. I don’t remember whether I watched this video or not (I don’t remember much anymore) but I’m asking anyone who is a Seventh-day Adventist to answer these questions: 1: Do you consider yourself protestant? 2: Do you have any idea whether other members of your local congregation consider themselves protestant? If so, do you think most of them do? Or do you think most of them don’t?
1. Yes, I consider myself a protestant and that the reformation has not died. 2. I left the local congregation because of what this video is speaking about. When most of the pioneers did not support the trinity doctrine, it dosent make sense that Ellen did. If almost all the pioneers was in error regarding the trinity doctrine, I am sure that God would have corrected the pioneers through His messenger, Ellen White. Even the first fundamental pillars did not support a trinity doctrine, and if they had been in error, I am sure that God would not allow them to set those pillars of faith. Maybe this is the reason why so many in the SDA organization dont see themselves as a protestant, because they have invited the Catholic trinity doctrine into the church. Im glad to see that we still have a 77 years old SDA that is protestant! 😃 May God and His Son be with you, through Their Spirit.
@@Lindstad777 Thanks for responding to my questions. The following is for anyone who may be following the discussion on this thread but, because you are the only one to reply so far, I’m addressing it to you, As mentioned in my previous comment, I didn’t remember whether I had watched this particular video. Well, now I have watched it and realize I hadn’t watched it previously. I’m glad I did because it has helped bring some aspects of this discussion into sharper focus for me. What is a creed? One of the dictionary definitions is - any list of doctrines or beliefs. (I have some suggestions about that - more about which upon request.) There is a sense, however, that a list of doctrines becomes a creed in yet another sense if or when that list is employed as a means of distinguishing between orthodoxy and heresy or when affirmation of the list is requisite for membership in an organization or when clergy are required to teach all of the doctrines on the list. I cannot sufficiently bewail the condition of those Christians who have come to a full stop in their spiritual development and will go at present no farther than the instruments of their reformation. Most Lutherans cannot be drawn to go beyond what Luther saw;...and the Calvinists, you see, stick fast where they were left by that great man of God, who yet saw not all things. This is a misery much to be lamented; for though they were burning and shining lights in their time, yet they penetrated not into the whole council of God, but were they now living, would be as willing to embrace further light as that which they first received. (Unabashedly paraphrased from The Great Controversy page 292.) If you search the Internet under “Five Fundamentals of the Christian Faith”, you are likely to find at least two lists of doctroines to which at least a third of professed Christians in the United States subscribe in the sense that they have been taught that anyone who doesn't subscribe to those lists is not “really” a Christian. I can accept as a Christian (and invite to participate in the Lord’s supper) almost everyone who professes faith in Jesus. (The only exception that comes to mind is people who claim to be without sin.) On the one hand, when the pioneers of the nineteenth century advent movement said (or wrote) that Seventh-day Adventists had no creed but the Bible, I think they meant that no list was to be taken as THE authoritative summary of Bible doctrines. (See 29:26 in this video.) On the other hand, the only way to state that there was entire unanimity among Seventh-day Adventists in the nineteenth century would have been to adopt the position that a person was not “really” a Seventh-day Adventist who didn’t believe exactly what the editors of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald listed as Seventh-day Adventist beliefs. To take such a position would not only have made the lists into creeds by the definition of distinguishing between biblical doctrines and heresies, it would have prevented spiritual progress in the same way that John Robinson decried in his farewell speech to the Mayflower pilgrims (as paraphrased above). It is possible that both of my grandmothers could have been accurately described as “followers” of the Seventh-day Adventist organization or its “leaders” - past or present. My paternal grandmother died in the 1950s. After my maternal grandmother died in the 1960s, my mother - who was an active member of the SdA organization from my birth in 1944 to her death in the 1980s - confided to me that her religion was very different from that of her Seventh-day Adventist mother. Same denominational affiliation but different religion? Yes. For two reasons. 1: Because my mother’s working definition of “religion” was similar to mine: the sum of those beliefs, practices and prohibitions that pertain to a person’s concept of the highest powers of the universe and 2: my mother’s religion was personal - not institutional. Several of the most influential pioneers of the nineteenth century advent movement were clergy in the Christian Connexion - a denomination in which most or all of the clergy were anti-trinitarian. The reason for their disproportionate influence among adventists was that they were writers, editors or publishers. Some were all three! In this video, we have some additional clues as to why the pioneers were anti-trinitarian. At least twice in this video (I’ll find the specific references if you think it will help you to better understand my point here) pioneers are represented as thinking that the doctrine of the trinity is the teaching that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one person. Unitarians teach that but I’ve had in-depth discussions with several Methodists and Baptists on this and other subjects and I have yet to meet one who taught that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one person. At 19:02 in this video, J. H. Waggoner is represented as teaching that the doctrine of the trinity is tritheistic (representing Father, Son and Holy Spirit as three gods). At 28:44 in this video, the doctrine of the trinity is represented as teaching that God is three persons. Is the goal of this video to confuse people as to what the doctrine of the trinity is? And if there were, among nineteenth century adventists, several different ways of understanding (or misunderstanding) the doctrine of the trinity, is it any wonder that they rejected whatever they thought it was? Of the three ways the doctrine of the trinity is represented in this video, which comes closest to what you understand the doctrine of the trinity to be? Better yet, can you explain in your own words what you think the doctrine of the trinity is?
@@Lindstad777 Lord to mercy. Lots of apostasies in mainstream corporate SDA conference. My heart is saddened not to attend Sabbath meetings with them anymore, am praying many to come to a full understanding of John 17:3 even my local congregation that's so bitter and Trinitarian in kind. Terrible. We gotta have to watch and pray. The time is at hand, I believe for our Lord with many signs of the times, especially the image of the beast formation beloved brethrens and family for eternity. Maranatha
@@edmondclement4005 Hello brother Clement. I agree. I am also with you feeling saddened not to attend any Sabbath meetings with the SDA coporate churches. Yes, the image of the beast has been forming for many years. So many protestant ministries that has joined with the doctrines of the first beast of Revelation 13. Like you wrote, we got to watch and pray. I do believe that when the latter rain comes, we will see our true brothers and sisters and get together. May God strengthen your faith and patience. Maranatha.
ACCORDING TO THE CATHOLIC CHUCH: Seventh-day Adventists are the only consistent Protestant. All other churches (so called protestant churches) are RENEGADE CATHOLICS.
Just a question! Does the trinity doctrine the same as the doctrine of the Godhead? Both teaches trinity but in different meaning! So which one is true! The trinity doctrine or the Godhead doctrine which also means three?
Finally, a channel that teaches biblical truth and the word of God, instead of doctrines of devils and the word of man. Edit. Who is a liar but he who denies the Father and the Son.
*‘Adventists beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of ‘present truth’. Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord … the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by early Adventists’. (Adventist Review, Jan 6, 1994, page 10)*
Thank you for the historical sayings of the Pioneers. Thank you for your hard work in researching these truths. You have made it easy for me to share. Keep up the good work. I'm doing a study in the OT about 'comfort'. Happy Sabbath.
Good morning, there is a quote by Uriah Smith from the book Daniel y Apocalipsis of the year 1882 which I cannot find on the website, I would appreciate if you have the book in PDF of that year if you could send it to me since I have two, one published in 1904 and the other. another published 2022 and the appointment does not appear. Thanks for the support. Greetings...
TEACHING OF THE BIBLE: There are three entity of God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They exist all at a time. "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46, KJV). The above verse explains of the existence of "the Father" and "the Son" in Heaven and on earth, respectively, at the same time. "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (John 15:26) "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (John 14:16) The above verses are explaining the three different entity at the same time. "The Father" and "the Holy Spirit" are in Heaven, while "the Son" is on this earth. John 14:16 says, "ANOTHER". That means, a "third" entity beside "the Father" and "the Son". Grammatically, the Holy Spirit is specified as "he" (third person) and the Son is been specified as "I" and "me" (first person), and "the Father" have ben specified and the second person. Luke 1:35 - "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". --> Above verse that angel Gabriel spoke identifies three: (1) The Highest, the Father; (2) The Son of God, shall be born; and (3) The Holy Ghost. They exist at the same time as different entity.
Thank you very much. I’d like to have this written, because I’m not so good in English and couldn’t understand all, it was a little to fast for me.. Thank you.
The Fundamental Principles in the video were quoted from the 1914 Seventh-day Adventist Yearbook. Here is a PDF copy of it: documents.adventistarchives.org/Yearbooks/YB1914.pdf
I very much appreciate this angle of teaching the true truth..PLS consider removing any form of music behind the great words we need so much to pay heed to!! PLS do not add music!!! any!! I do hope you understand.. it distracts the mind, it can be hypnotic, and Satan's deceitful ways are very subtle.. reply if you will.. Blessings
So yes we believe that the father and the son are two seperate being,however this makes the point in truth of the Godhead being a trio,of three distinct persons Who are one in function and spirit the everlasting God😮
Generally well done and clearly presented, but the incessant piano in the background, while lovely, kept my mind from concentrating on what was said. Please, can you make available the same presentation without the constant distracting and somewhat hypnotic background music? I really want to be able to think clearly about what I am hearing.
I really liked the music. I found the music helped me to focus. Maybe it is possible to mute the music (if one desires) without muting the dialog. Is that possible?
EGW: "There are three living persons of the heavenly trio". "The eternal three dignitaries God and Christ and the Holy Spirit " "The Holy Spirit is a divine person" Read this in Evangelism 616. Early pioneers were not in all agreement and issues had to be worked out. I trust only the Bible and SOP.
Evangelism book was written by Leroy froom who was a 33 degree free mason and worshiped Satan. I would never trust anything written by Leroy Fromm. He was a Freemason. He was buried in the mason section of the graveyard. There is only 1 God and Jesus Christ the begotten son of God. Holy Spirit is Jesus living inside of us
Leroy Fromm, who wrote evangelism and the coming comforter, was a 33 degree mason. He manipulated his way with corporate SDA to change the acceptance of the trinity away from what the founding fathers belief against the trinity. The trinity is Catholic. Leroy Fromm is buried in the Masonic gravesite. He in my opinion was a Jesuit transplant into the Church.
Prov. 24: 21-22 fear god and king jesus. Zac. 6:13 jesus will build the temple of his god. John 20: 17 iwill go to my god. Mat. 13: 11 marc. 4: 34. Jesus told his apostle exclusively about the secret in heaven ….. After jesus gone to heaven here are the preaching of his apostle at romans 8:34 jesus pleads for us to his father, 1st peter 2: 4 god choose jesus, 1 st john 2: 1 jesus faced his father for our sin. Thats the teaching of his apostles so where is trinity? Ill help you find it. It is in 1 st tim. 4:1; 1 st john 4 1 and rev… 16: 13 -16. There are three un clean spirit that comes out of the mouth of false propheth. The tninity doctrine. Some of our political leaders are uñawarely gathered of these teaching. It cause the figurative war of good vs. Evil teaching. The armageddon.a symbolical battlefeild where gods true people defeated gods enemies.
《AMAZINGLY POWERFULLY WRITTEN REVELATION FOR ME : >>>>>>> THANK YOU MY GOD LORD JESUS CHRIST THE LAMB OF GOD ALELLUJAH,!!!! THANK YOU MY LORD GOD MY BELOVED CREATOR AND SAVIOUR HOLY GHOST THE REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR MERCIFUL INTERCESSOR IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNIVERSE IN YOUR TEMPLE RIGHT BEFORE THE LORD GOD RIGHTEOUS JUDGE 》
God the Father and the Son are one. The same concept was made by God saying to man that shall leave his family and the woman also will leave her family and to become one. Two individuals coming together in harmony. The bearing witness on earth of the God the Father, God the Son and the Holly Ghost also shows the unit of the three. When God said let us create, it means there were more than one person. John 1:1 also confirms. I believe you left many other Pioneers views with the other important views supporting the core existence of the Trinity. The word TRINITY is just telling us that we have three working in one accord. Some times because of our sinful nature we might not understand that its possible for three working perfectly well even at the absence of two. Lets invite the comforter to guide us in truth as He pleads with us if we are lost and he was not created and his life is eternal.
This obsession with looking back to what the church pioneers believed on the structure of the Godhead makes some fundamental mistakes. Firstly, it does not go back far enough to look at the churches and their beliefs that many of the pioneers came out of. The pioneers carried these ideas with them as they joined the Advent Movement. And not only on the doctrine of the Godhead, but on other Bible doctrines as well. Some of them held to some strange beliefs. Secondly, people who look back to what the pioneers believed seem to have a subconscious thought that God handed "all truth" to them like a package, with nothing more to be learned or discovered. This is a BIG mistake. God revealed truth PROGRESSIVELY to those who joined the Advent Movement. This is obvious - initially the interpretation of Daniel 8:14 was 1843, then 1844, then after the disappointment they learned the true event to which the prophecy pointed, then they studied the sanctuary, then they discovered the Sabbath, later came health reform, etc etc. In this process they were not only learning truth but were also unlearning errors that they carried with them from the churches they had come out of. This progressive revealing of truth by God to His church has not finished. Ellen White states clearly that more light is to come to God's people. In looking back to the pioneers and holding to everything they taught as the foundation for our beliefs may ultimately put is in the same position as what happened to the other churches that came out of the Reformation - they got stuck on the new light they received and failed to keep advancing in further light and knowledge, so God had to go elsewhere to work with those who were open to be lead forward in the process of the revealing of truth to this world.
Simply stated, the dispelling of the trinity divides the "Goats from the Sheep! Be it hell or heaven for me, my believe stands on the God who is the Father, and His First Son Jesus Christ!
Most Adventists try hard to keep the 10 Commandments, especially the fourth, But by believing the trinity dogma, they break the most important Commandment of all, The first!
@@4321grp Then, you have to say 'by believing the binitarian God, theory of new age anti-trinitariansm that you have embraced (two gods: one true God, and a second lesser god with a beginning somewhere in eternity!) is very clearly breaks the first one in Ex. 20, and the bible also says you break one , you break them all in James 2:10!! Isn't this akin to the pot calling the kettle black?
@@themanlymansite, Does Jesus have a God whom he worships? Does Jesus have Someone whom he serves and obeys?When we worship Jesus, we honor his God also. Even kings were worshipped by Israel (1Chron.29:20) And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king. We can and should worship Jesus, but we should never put Jesus equal to, or above his God and our God. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John (20:17)
@@4321grp Interesting. I'm concerned that you only want to win a debate rather than arrive at the truth. To arrive at the truth you need to weigh each statement or verse with other statements and verses on the same topic thereby getting the entire picture. Let's not cherry pick. You asked if Jesus has a God who He Worships and Obeys? The answer is clearly yes. This is because there was NO time where the Father was not the Father and there was no time where the son was NOT the son. Their relationship never came into being nor will it ever go out of being. If you are thinking hard, this should tell you something about the Son. Other questions you neglected to consider are Does God the Father call Jesus "God?" The answer is Yes - Hebrews 1:8. How about the Disciples. Did they recognize Jesus as God? Again, Yes according to John 20:28 as well as John 1:1. These points cannot be ignored. Dealing with the 1Chronicles - are you really saying the people worshipped the King as we worship God? If so, you've completely misunderstood the scriptures. Your confusion will be cleared away if you read down a bit more. In vs.21 it says they made sacrifices to the LORD. Why not to the King also if they were worshipping the King? vs. 22 Clears it up by showing that Solomon was being coronated as King. So the answer is simply that God was being worshipped as God, and the King was being "worshipped" or praised as King. It is NOT saying the King was being worshipped as God. There is a distinction there that the reverent reader will notice. However, when Jesus was being worshipped by Thomas, it was as GOD as his words make clear. Lastly, your statement "We can and should worship Jesus, but we should never put Jesus equal to, or above his God and our God." should be re-evaluated. Why would you worship Jesus if He is not God? Are you saying to worship someone other than God? Are we worshipping him as a really nice created being? Also, the scriptures clearly state that Jesus IS equal with God, but humbled himself and took the form of a servant. Phil2:5,6 says "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Hebrews also brings the point home in Hebrews 1:3,4. Question for you - What name did Jesus inherit being so much greater than the angels according to Hebrews 1:4?
Hello Abraham, The video focused the pioneers in particular. We have other resources that deal with the Spirit of Prophecy and demonstrate that all were in one accord. Blessings.
@@Seventh-dayChurchofRevelation She said things that said that she believed in three heavenly dignitaries, and that the Holy Spirit is as much a person as God is a person. Blessings.
It is interesting though that she describes the Father and the Son having their own personalities, and then describes the Holy Spirit as also having a personality in other places.
I only watched the first 13 minutes, but the proof texts are weak and they are expressing the opinions of men. It's not unusual for the times they were in. You had an odd conglomeration of believers with doctrines all over the place coming together and starting to gel together. I can't get past a few things: 1) John 1:1-4 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men." Jesus was the Word and was God. 2) Genesis 1 In the beginning God (Elohim) made the heavens and the earth. the im at the end of that name is plural. A cherub means one angel, cherubim are many angels. 3) Genesis again "Let Us make Man in Our image". Who was God talking to? 4) Jesus declares Himself to be the IAM in John 8:58, God speaking to Moses on Mt Sinai. I can't see beyond these. I am really ok with not fully understanding the nature of God. As far as the theory that the Trinity is a creation of the Catholic Church, you need to be careful with that line of thinking. Not EVERYTHING they said is false #1. Satan mingles truth with lies to make things more believable, and #2 the Bible we read today is largely filtered down and handed to us from them, something to think about.
I came from a Southern Baptist Church and learned of the Adventist Church in 1998 and now after watching this video I realize the only bad thing about this Trinity doctrine that were that's coming around the corner that gives Satan his doorway to impersonate Christ that's the only reason that he would bring this doctrine in that is what's going to give him the lead way to even for the very least which would be us not me. I'm sticking to what the Bible says and what our founders said of all the study that they have done
I almost became a 7th day adventist but their beleif in the trinity is what prevented it IF they can publicly apologize for teaching a false doctrine and go back to unitarianism ill gladly join
Why was not Mrs. Whites quotations also included with her husbands? Our human language systems are faulty and born in sin. The Reality exists without words, but the bible says in different places such as in Daniel 12:10 "the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand".. and in proverbs 28:5 "Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things." So we know that that which the Lord wants us to know we may know. If this is something the Lord wants us to know we may know. I think compartmentalizing things this way is easy to divide. Do we not believe that Jesus is God? or that the Holy Spirit is not God's Spirit? If we do then we agree? You don't believe Jesus is God? "how long have I been with you? and has thou not known me?"...Thomas says "My Lord and my God"...At Christ's baptism were they all three not present? Christ is the focus of the three I think is obvious. The Father created all things Through and has committed all judgement To Him, and the Holy Spirit only reveals what the Son has shown Him, which we just stated was Given Him from the Father. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself"..? Trinity is just a human word that does not appear in the bible but the Reality which transcends human language is there and can be experienced outside of human communications.
What was truly the reason for changing this fundamental belief? Was it necessary to do it? This was like changing the roots and foundation of the Church, why? It appears the devil is infiltrating the SDA Church and the true believers mist stand firm. It may have been the beginning but may not be the end of such heretic actions.
The reason for the change was; the church was getting branded by other ecumenical movements as being a cult. So in mutual agreement, the leaders of the SDA church and other churches leaders decided that, if the SDA’s began teaching the Trinity, the other churches would stop saying they were a cult and would even remove all past articles speaking the same sentiments. The idea came into the church in 1919-1920. Became widespread in our writings in 1950 because of Leroy Froom and his re-editing of pioneers writings. In 1980 it was officially accepted as a creed and put into the fundamental beliefs... the Omega of apostasy spoken of by EGW.
you seems to be so informed. If you know the real difference between the Catholic counterfeit Trinity and the Adventist doctrine of the biblical Godhead/the Trinity, you will also know the modern anti-trinitarians offshoots teach the same exact Catholic counterfeit trinity while falsely accusing the SDA church. This is one of the last day delusions!
So what law on the statute books is in 'direct connection' to the Sunday rest bill? The law that anyone who publicly denies the trinity will be persecuted. And we know that according to Rome, Sunday is directly connected to their trinity god ... "every Sunday is devoted to the honor of the Most Holy Trinity, that every Sunday is sanctified and consecrated to the triune God." (source) ... "Question 1092. What is Sunday, or the Lord's Day in general? A. It is a day dedicated by the Apostles to the honour of the most holy Trinity." (The Douay Catechism of 1649) "It will also be noticed that this 'league' [The International Sunday Observance League] has other plans besides the intention to prosecute those who will not bow to their man-made Sabbath. Perhaps they will prosecute those who do not believe in the Trinity. Their, spiritual ancestors, the Puritans, considered the arrest and punishment of those who rejected this church dogma as something pleasing to the Deity ... The doctrine of the Trinity and the sacredness of Sunday are both orthodox plums of marvelous sweetness to the ministerial tooth." (Review and Herald, Nov.20, 1894, Vol.71, No.46, p.730 - SOURCE) And what are all the churches uniting on today? THE TRINITY! Take a look at our ECUMENICAL GOD OF ROME page for more information on that. So Rome is uniting all the churches on it's Trinity god ready for the mark to be enforced!
I have went back and forth on this subject, struggling to make sense of it. I read what the pioneers say and it makes sense. I read what trinitarians say and it makes sense. I read what oneness Pentecostals say about the godhead and it makes sense. I can only confidently dismiss the JW view that Jesus is the first created being and the Mormon which is absolutely repulsive. I have landed on the side of trinitarianism for now for two reasons, I believe that in Genesis 1:26 God said “let US make man in OUR image” the oneness position is refuted as this clearly shows God as in at least two persons interacting. I also believe that our pioneers view sustains a huge blow when you consider that if Christ isn’t the eternal God; but only the SON of the eternal God, then you no longer have God sacrificing HIMSELF on behalf of fallen humanity, but rather you have CHILD SACRIFICE. Jeremiah 19:5 God says child sacrifice is so repulsive that it never entered His mind! Interesting topic. However I don’t believe it is a salvational issue. Correct theology doesn’t save you; Jesus saves you and Jesus is merciful and gracious. Jesus is not in the business of saving smart people who have perfect understandings of everything. He saves repentant sinners. Do you believe there is ONE GOD? Do you believe in THE FATHER? Do you believe in THE SON? Do you believe in the HOLY SPIRIT? Do you believe that you are a wretched sinner in need of the atoning blood of Jesus? Have you excepted the blood of Jesus on your behalf and started your walk towards sanctification? If yes, then you are saved. Regardless of how you conceptualize the three parts or persons of the Godhead, who or what they are and how they function. Regardless of any of that, if you have repented, been baptized and are now walking in newness of life, your eternal salvation is secure. Believe it! Theology can enrich your Christian experience, but there is no saving function in it. Jesus Himself told us “You search the scriptures, for in THEM you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of ME” John 5:9
If all those views make sense then your in grave danger of accepting a false Jesus brother because Jesus cant be molded into any philosophical teaching. Jesus lived to vindicate the Father as a true just God. When we genuinely accept Christ and search the scriptures that testifies of him we automatically can state we've obtained eternal life by knowing The One True God and Jesus our Lord and saviour. The Bible always points back to Jesus and Jesus always points back to the Father and that's the monotheistic theme of the scriptures. Jesus alone saves because he's the only way to The Father, but we have to recall that many will be shouting Jesus and will not be recognized [Matt 7:21-23.] "Only by knowing God here can we prepare to meet him at his coming. "This is life eternal," said Christ, "that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." But many of those who profess to believe in Christ do not know God. They have only a surface religion. They do not love God; they do not study his character; therefore they do not know how to trust, how to look and live." RH July 20, 1897, par. 8
@@freddyrodriguez2435 I understand where you are coming from. And I may have come across as more wishy washy than I really am. I wasn’t saying that all those views make EQUAL sense. I was just saying that when I look into all the different views, I see their points and I see how they arrive at their conclusions. And I definitely see how people buy into believing them especially when that’s what they hear preached to them week after week. However, I have come to a pretty solid belief in the Adventist version of the trinity. I have really studied this issue from many different theological lenses and I believe it is the only one that stands up both scripturally and philosophically. However, I think that anybody who says that the having a perfect understanding of the ontology of God in order to be saved is WAY over stating their case. Yes, to know God is life eternal. But I think it is very clear that both scripture and Mrs. White mean to know God’s character and not his nature. The nature of God is something I don’t think we will ever perfectly know or understand even throughout eternity. How could we? And Matt 7 is not talking about those who claim to know the ontology of God and Jesus turning to them and saying I never knew you. In context it is speaking specifically about people claiming to be entitled to salvation because of their GOOD WORKS.
@@blueticks8423 John 5:39 and the life Jesus lived to represent. The theme of the Bible and the 1st fundamental principle of the 1872 Fundamental Principles. God is a Personal Spiritual Being. We are assured through inspiration because sister White let us know the 1872 FP were inspired by God's spirit.
@@freddyrodriguez2435 Amen and indeed it was. That doesn’t mean it was perfectly theologically sound. In Acts 2, Peter is the showcased preacher on the day of Pentecost. It wasn’t until much later he had the vision with the unclean animals and realized that the Gospel was for the gentiles as well. Matthew 27:9 says that it was Jeremiah that prophesied that Jesus would be sold for 30 pieces of silver, but in fact it was Zechariah. But, in spite of all of this, these men were inspired. I say this, not to diminish our faith in the reliability of the scriptures or the prophetic gift of EGW. We just need to be ok with our theology evolving as we dig deeper into the word. And we must also be ok with the theology of our beloved Prophetess evolving as she gained in years and wisdom. Reading her writings it is very clear that from the 1890’s onward to the end of her life, Mrs. White was decidedly Trinitarian. She even coined the phrase “Heavenly Trio.”
If you are interested, check out the book “The Hevaenly Trio” by Ty Gibson. It’s a brilliant book and well studied on the subject of the views of most of our pioneers contrasted with those of Ellen White and our modern stance on this subject. Great read! It cleared the air for me on this issue that is beginning to divide our church in a very unhealthy and unfortunate way. The divisiveness of it is dangerous to our church and therefore to our mission as a church. We are called to uplift Christ and the Three Angels Messages before the people. Not get to sidetracked on these side issues and fighting amongst ourselves. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
THE SECOND COMMANDMENT, THE TRINITY AND THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD I always wondered what was so significant about the second Commandment that Rome found it necessary to remove it altogether from the Ten Commandments. But it appears that there is a fundamental truth in that Commandment concerning where God's presence is that is intended to protect us from all forms of false worship. The second Commandment tells us that we should not bow down before any image. This implies that God is not in any image. Which means that God is not everywhere. The Bible tells us that God is in heaven; and heaven is not everywhere. Heaven is above the earth and that is where we should direct our worship to God, where He is. He knows everything that happens everywhere and can go wherever He pleases but His abode is in heaven where Jesus, our High Priest and intercessor, is presenting our cases to Him. - "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb. 8:1). Furthermore, both the prophets Daniel and John saw God in heaven with the angels gathered around His throne and Jesus being separate and distinct (Dan. 7 and Rev. 4, 5). Daniel said "the Ancient of days did sit" (Dan. 7:9) and "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:13). John said "one sat on the throne" (Rev. 4:2) who was worshipped as the Creator to whom it was said "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11), with Jesus appearing before Him to receive a book and power and authority, as the Lamb who was slain, while the angels sang, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Rev. 5:13). God is not everywhere all at once like a vapour while part of Him or an image sits on the throne representing Him. God Himself sits, of whom man was made in His image after His likeness, "made after the similitude of God" (James 3:9). Logically, if God is everywhere, He can be worshipped wherever He is. One could then bow down and worship before a stone, a tree, a person or any object, not as worshipping the object but as worshipping God, since God is in it. That would open the door for the worship of false Gods as no one would be able to tell the difference whether you are worshipping the true God or not. It would not be consistent to forbid worshipping before an object if God is in the object and one is worshipping, not the object, but God who is in the object. This is evident in the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness. God appeared to them in a cloud and they were not forbidden to bow before Him in the cloud - "And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud" (Ex. 19:9), "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door" (Ex. 33:10). If God is not in a particular place, say in an image, it means that there is at least one place where He is not. He cannot be everywhere and not everywhere at the same time. The idea that the Holy Spirit is God present everywhere was precisely the argument that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg put forward to justify his pantheistic teachings. And Ellen White told him that he was wrong. Initially, he said that God was in everything. And when God instructed Ellen White to oppose it, he modified it by saying that at the time of his first presentation of the matter in the book "The Living Temple" he did not believe in the Trinity. Because of that, he said he had not given a clear explanation of the matter. He went on to explain that he had now come to believe in the Trinity and could better explain his idea. The new explanation was that it was not God the Father, but God the Holy Ghost who was everywhere and in everything. Ellen White told him that he was wrong. And we can see why. If God the Holy Spirit is everywhere and can be worshipped, it is a doorway to replace worshipping God and Christ in heaven entirely. Another modified version of Kellogg's idea is that the Holy Spirit is really Christ himself or both God and Christ in an omnipresent form. This is also not correct as it places God and Christ on earth rather than in heaven. The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism stated in their Fundamental Principles of faith published in the 1889 Yearbook that God was everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. At face value, this would suggest that this representative is omnipresent. But it is perhaps more consistent with scripture to say that He is everywhere present by His representatives the holy spirits. Holy spirits are ministering spirits sent from heaven - "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (John1:51). "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14). This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere. From this perspective, there is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18 who comes down from heaven with the latter rain - a similar occurrence as that which took place at Pentecost except more extensive - the Comforter would be seen as a messenger sent by Christ from heaven, as stated repeatedly in John 14-16. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399). It should be noted that Jesus's warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not implying that the Holy Spirit is more to be revered than Jesus Himself. Jesus went back to heaven and promises to return to this earth to take us to His Father's house in heaven. He left the Holy Spirit to guide us until He returns. If we reject that guidance by blasheming against the the Holy Spirit, there will be nobody to guide us. The situation is similar to what God told the children of Israel in the wilderness - "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." (Ex. 23:20, 21). It is simply warning us not to reject the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is not forbidding us seeking to understand who the Holy Spirit is or what the Holy Spirit does. So, there we have it. The church has now fully accepted Kellogg's idea. Ellen White said that the initial presentation by Kellogg was the alpha of deadly heresies. She said that the omega would follow shortly afterwards and would be accepted. And it did follow shortly afterwards in Kellogg's modified version, based on his acceptance of the Trinity. And the church has now fully accepted it - that God (the Holy Spirit) is everywhere and should be worshipped. So, based on current practice, Jesus is worshipped, the Holy Spirit is worshipped but the One true God is almost entirely ignored. Jesus, praying to His Father, made it clear who the "only true God" is and identified Himself as the one sent by God - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3). Nowhere in the Bible is worship given to anyone else except the one seated on the throne who is referred to as "LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev.4:8) and to the Christ, the Lamb, as it will be in the new earth - "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev. 21:22). God is the Father of Christ. Accordingly, Christ, the Lamb is seen with "an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads" (Rev. 14:1). It is the name of the Lamb's Father that will be written in their foreheads. Whatever one's concept of the Godhead, the term "godhead" is used only three times in the Bible (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20 and Col. 2:9) and in none of these places is the expression used to replace the idea of God being a single individual who has a Divine Son who is worshipped alongside Himself. And not even once does the term "godhead" in scripture allude to the worship of anyone else. All worship should be directed to God and Christ in heaven. It is not about where we are when we worship but, like sending a petition to the king of England, we do not send it to Spain or Australia but to him in England where he is. Similarly, Jesus in teaching us how to pray directed that we say, "Our Father which art in heaven". We should not be praying to nor worshipping anything on earth. We should pray to God in heaven, approaching His throne through Christ, our Mediator, and we should direct our worship to heaven where God is. This is the substance of the second Commandment that Rome has removed.
@@Armor-mi3nk Were Ellen White and Kellogg saying the same thing? On the surface, it appears that Ellen and Kellogg were saying the same thing. Ellen herself, in responding to Kellogg's assertion that he was only saying the same things that Ellen had said, admitted that there were things in her writings that interpreted according to the mind of the writer of "The Living Temple" (Kellogg) would give the impression that they were saying the same thing but that it was not the case. She could not explain it, but she knew what God had revealed to her - that Kellogg was wrong. Now, we must decide whether we are accepting what was directly revealed to the prophet or whether we are going by the prophet's own limited attempts to explain it. Even Daniel did not understand some of the things that were revealed to him. But he faithfully recorded it and left it for us, since Gabriel told him to shut it up because it would not be understood till the time of the end. The truth concerning God, Christ and Lucifer (who was next in honour to Christ) was clearly revealed to Ellen, in vision, more than once. She was also shown that Kellogg's idea that God was everywhere and in everything was wrong and was the alpha of deadly heresies. We must decide whether we will accept these direct revelations or not. James White, who had a greater capacity to explain scripture than Ellen, explained that God was present everywhere by His omniscience and by His capacity to exercise His power everywhere, but not everywhere in person. I believe the matter is clear enough - "If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.” (Numbers 12:6). We should pay attention to the things that were revealed directly to Ellen, and not look to her as an infallible expositor of scripture. We should study the scriptures for ourselves and use our God-given capabilities to put the pieces together along with what has been directly revealed to get a clear sense of truth.
The Spirit of Prophecy dilemma. 1. Ellen White had the spirit of prophecy since 1844 (27 Beliefs-page 224) 2. The Spirit of Prophecy protects the church from doctrinal error (27 Beliefs-page 219) 3. It is a theological error to have anti-trinitarian beliefs 4. Ellen White as the Spirit of Prophecy permitted anti-trinitarian beliefs from 1844 to 1895 (Desire of the Ages published in 1895; the alleged Trinitarian book) 5. The Spirit of Prophecy failed to protect the church from doctrinal error; antitrinitarian belief from 1844 to 1895. (27 Beliefs-page 219) How can Ellen White have the Spirit of Prophecy and not fulfill the role of defending against doctrinal error?
Desire of Ages alleged Trinitarian book? Lol dude there's so much Trinitarian statements in that book. "From the DAYS OF ETERNITY the Lord Jesus Christ was ONE with the Father, He (Jesus) was the image of God, the image of His (The Father's) greatness and majesty, the outshining of His glory" (Desire of Ages pg 19 chapter "God with us") "Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the THIRD PERSON OF THE GODHEAD" (Desire of Ages pg 671)
@@mrsir8094 Thank yoiu for the oh! so typical Adventist reply which is ignore the main thrust of the post and focus on a lesser point. Well done! So, did EGW protect the Adventists from error as she slept with a rabid anti-trinitarian (James White) every night?
Hmmm I will continue to study but there are two things that jumped out of me 1. None of the context in which the quotes was mentioned, therefore quotes can be misrepresented such as the J.N Andrews his quotes were cherry-picked from different times 2. You say Ellen white held these By association but you did not once quote her. And its worth nothing that some pioneers were pantheistic I dont here the cry to return to nature worship just because the pioneers thought it, My theology faith will be on the word of God not Waggoner, Smith or Andrews
Christ is called also "everlasting Father" in Isaiah. There are statements indicating that there was not a time that Christ was not with the Father. John 1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." One of the characteristics of God is eternity. There are no higher God[s] and lesser [Gods]. Subordination is biblical because in eternity the meeting between them was to decide: Who offer Grace? Who dies a Substitutionary death for the frail humans? Who stays behind when Christ ascends to heaven to take care of them not bound by immediate borders of space and time. Thus, Christ said: I will not eat with you again until we eat in Heaven [after the Advent]. If the Spirit as Smith was trying to say, was just Christ's spirit or the Father's spirit, then this "clone" being is Himself and thus He could not have said that He is not on earth when He is in heaven. Does the logic set in? He said that He will send another Comforter, thus He is a Comforter Himself but on His way, but another Comforter, carefully distinguished from Himself to be on earth while He is in Heaven. Yet, the Holy Spirit acted as agent for Christ just as Christ acted as agent for the Father. This was what they decided before the function divisions had a beginning, was "born" was "sent" was starting to act out their parts in this great plan of salvation. They act all on behalf of each other. They share equally the same passions, compassions, goals. Thus, what these few blessed fathers of our pioneers misunderstood with their Unitarian baggage from the churches they came from, is that Subordination is just a salvivic beginning-point until eternity reached. Christ wanted to stay human though and will, glorified bodily human. It is a compassionate choice and not that He was a glorified good man, glorified by the Father. Therefore these remarks by James White in 1846, note the date and Uriah Smith 1890 was not correct. It was the marginal comments of some scholars and even the husband of Ellen White. It surprise me that James White missed the eternal aspect of Christ in scripture and also Uriah Smith in 1890. Ellen White definitely pointed to the eternal aspect of Christ. She mentioned the heavenly trio also a number of times. Denis Kaiser brought out a Dictionary of the Trinity at Andrews University with all the documents provided there. Might look at it for the alternative view. Thanks.
“THE ONENESS OF GOD” GOD IS ONE = ONE SPIRIT - AND - NOT AN UNION OF 3 GODS. THE ONENESS OF GOD IS NOT AN UNITY OF 2-3 OR MORE. IF YOU DO NOT DISCERN THIS TRUTH THEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM. MARK 3 - 25 - AND IF A HOUSE BE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF, THAT HOUSE CANNOT STAND. THE ONENESS OF GOD = GOD OUR CREATOR = SAVIOUR = THE LION OF JUDAH = THE LAMB OF GOD = THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN = THE ROCK = AND HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED = WONDERFUL = COUNSELLOR = THE MIGHTY GOD= THE EVERLASTING FATHER = THE PRINCE OF PEACE THE LION OF JUDAH THE EMANUEL = GOD WITH US THE KING OF KINGS THE LORD OF LORDS. I COULD GO ON BUT ALL THESAE ARE IN THE ONENESS OF GOD. HAVE YOU DISCERNED THE ONENESS OF GOD YET; OR DO YOU HAVE TO INTELLECTUALISE THE ONENESS OF GOD INTO A TRINITY IDOL. GOD IS ONE SPIRIT. MARK 12:29-32 ZECHARIAH 14:9 AND THE LORD WILL BE KING OVER ALL THE EARTH. ON THAT DAY THE LORD WILL BE ONE AND HIS NAME ONE. JESUS ANSWERED, “THE MOST IMPORTANT IS, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE. JOHN 17:21-23 THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME… JOHN 10:30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.” JOHN 14:20 IN THAT DAY YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM IN MY FATHER, AND YOU IN ME, AND I IN YOU. JAMES 2:19 YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD IS ONE; YOU DO WELL. EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE-AND SHUDDER! ROMANS 8:1 THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS. JUDE 1:4 FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE CREPT IN UNNOTICED WHO LONG AGO WERE DESIGNATED FOR THIS CONDEMNATION, UN-GODLY PEOPLE, WHO PERVERT THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO SENSUALITY AND DENY OUR ONLY MASTER AND LORD, JESUS CHRIST. THE MAJORITY OF THE INTELLECTUAL ELITIST WOULD OR COULD NOT ACCEPT THE SIMPLICITY OF THE ONENESS OF GOD AND THE HUMILITY OF JESUS AND THE SIMPLICITY OF HIS TEACHINGS AS GOD, THEREFORE THEY INVENTED THE TRINITY OR RATHER - REINVENTED A PAGAN TRINITY BY ADOPTING THE PAGAN TRINITY A GOD OF 3 IN ONE, HENCE THE ONENESS OF GOD WAS CONTAMINATED IN AN INSTANT BY THE VANITY OF THE INTELLECTUAL ELITE. YES IN AN INSTANT THEY HAD CREATED A GOD IN THEIR OWN IMAGE. HOWEVER THEIR TRINITIES WERE EXPOSED AS A FORGERIES BY ISAAC NEWTON, EUSEBIUS AND MANY OTHER RESEARCHERS OF THE WORD OF GOD. MATTHEW 23 24 YE BLIND GUIDES, WHO STRAIN OUT A GNAT AND SWALLOW A CAMEL! [YES! SWALLOWED THE TRINITY; HOOK, LINE, AND SINKER - HOW SAD]
ISAIAH 43:10 “YOU ARE MY WITNESSES,” DECLARES THE LORD, “AND MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN, THAT YOU MAY KNOW AND BELIEVE ME AND UNDERSTAND THAT I AM HE. BEFORE ME NO GOD WAS FORMED, NOR THERE BE ANY AFTER ME. GALATIANS 3:20 NOW AN INTERMEDIARY IMPLIES MORE THAN ONE, BUT GOD IS ONE. MARK 12:29 JESUS ANSWERED, “THE MOST IMPORTANT IS, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE. 1 TIMOTHY 2:5 FOR THERE IS ONE GOD, AND THERE IS ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS, ISAIAH 45:21-22 DECLARE AND PRESENT YOUR CASE; LET THEM TAKE COUNSEL TOGETHER! WHO TOLD THIS LONG AGO? WHO DECLARED IT OF OLD? WAS IT NOT I, THE LORD? AND THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME, A RIGHTEOUS GOD AND A SAVIOUR; THERE IS NONE BESIDES ME. “TURN TO ME AND BE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH! FOR I AM GOD, AND THERE IS NO OTHER. ISAIAH 44:8 FEAR NOT, NOR BE AFRAID; HAVE I NOT TOLD YOU FROM OF OLD AND DECLARED IT? AND YOU ARE MY WITNESSES! IS THERE A GOD BESIDES ME? THERE IS NO ROCK; I KNOW NOT ANY.” EPHESIANS 4:5-6 ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS OVER ALL AND THROUGH ALL AND IN ALL. ISAIAH 44:6 THUS SAYS THE LORD, THE KING OF ISRAEL AND HIS REDEEMER, THE LORD OF HOSTS: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST; BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD. 1 CORINTHIANS 8:6 YET FOR US THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER, FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND FOR WHOM WE EXIST, AND ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, THROUGH WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND THROUGH WHOM WE EXIST. 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4 THEREFORE, AS TO THE EATING OF FOOD OFFERED TO IDOLS, WE KNOW THAT “AN IDOL HAS NO REAL EXISTENCE,” AND THAT “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE.” 1 CORINTHIANS 12:13 FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTISED INTO ONE BODY, WHETHER WE BE JEWS OR GENTILES, WHETHER WE BE BOND OR FREE; AND HAVE BEEN ALL MADE TO DRINK INTO ONE SPIRIT. JOHN 17:21-23 THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME… GOD BLESS YOU - ALL WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS ARE IN ONE SPIRIT FOR GOD IS ONE. IF YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS OR DOUBT DON'T HESITATE TO ASK ME. BETTER STILL PRAY TO THE LORD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT THE BREATHE OF GOD WILL ANSWER YOU. JOHN 20 22 AND WITH THAT HE BREATHED ON THEM AND SAID, “RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. JOB 32:8 BUT IT IS THE SPIRIT IN MAN, THE BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY THAT MAKES HIM UNDERSTAND. TIS THE ELITIST THAT GAVE US A FALSE TIRNITY - AND WILL SOON GIVE US A ONE WORLD RELIGION THROUGH A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS A NEW TORAH AS ITS FRONT AND POSSIBLY THE TRINITY EMBLEM AS A THREE IN ONE IDOL ON THEIR FLAG OR BANNER. THIS WILL SEEMINGLY UNITE ALL OTHER PAGAN TRINITIES OF THE WORLD TO CHALLENGE THE AUTHORITY OF THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LAMB OF GOD - THAT WAS SLAIN. THE INVOCATIONS OF THE TRINITY MIGHT WELL BE USED AGAINST TRUE BELIEVERS IN THE NAME OF JESUS AND THE 2 WITNESSES WHEN ELIJAH HAS COURAGEOUSLY EXPOSED THE TRINITY AS SATANIC. BUT; EVERY TRINITY IS THE SAME AND IS SATAN FEIGNED AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. BY SLEIGHT OF HAND SATAN HAS HOODWINKED THE MAJORITY OF BELIEVERS AND BY NOW THEY WORSHIP SATAN THE DRAGON - BY DEFAULT. GOD BLESS YOU AND THE PEACE OF JESUS -YESHUA THE PRINCE OF PEACE BE WITH YOU ALWAYS.
Thank God secular law & order finally stopped the witch killings. I can only imagine if a deity desired my awareness of it, I would probably be aware & if not, then why call deity other than fiction? Christians embarrass & insult us with this barrage of nonsense, retreating into caves like this channel to refuel. Dear Christian Uploader, My god, have you any sense of decency? If everyone is not aware of "the" deity, then it fudges the title a bit, don't you think?
You encourage people to travel as if best done with one foot in fantasyland. Theologians grant each other doctorates based on nothing whatsoever. Christians are fascists, rendering to Caesar what is his, exercising freedom of speech with abuse. The naked ape is a vain species, Christians want to own the narrative, claiming knowledge of a supreme being, which is never verified beyond a tool of fiction. Christians insult intelligence in public, suggesting we travel with a map of fantasyland, walk with one foot in reality & one foot in literary fiction & state propaganda. Christians authorize themselves to weigh-in on whatnot as if Earth had gravity-free zones, & everyone knows it. Christian invocations call into existence evil as good; they are wolves in sheep's clothing. We inherit their vast bulk of our oldest documents, the records of looting & torture: inquisitions. Christians are hypocrites with productions like this, making a scene of praying in the temple. Christians are the lowlifes in society, avoided like the insane pretending to talk to an invisible friend, holding a hairdryer in place of a phone. Christian manufacture ultimate vanity, proclaiming we are all gods, children of the highest god. Democracy is a cult-like faith where many actually believe giving power to others always has consequence which can be tolerably managed by the managers. The models for Limits to Growth of 1973 were accurate. The state has no plans, so the only difference between a Republican & a Democrat is how fast the knee hits the floor when a donor walks in the room & SCOTUS produces stench.
BEGINNING OF DAYS? The WORD is the High Priest Melechisedec King of peace. "Without FATHER, without mother, without decent, having "NEITHER BEGINING OF DAYS" nor end of life; but made unto the SON of GOD, abideth a priest contiually". Heb. 7:3. I guess the great SDA scholar failed to memorize this verse which verifies JESUS having no begining of day. HE was made Flesh but before HE was eual with GOD Phip. 2:5-8. Born in Bethlehem "FROMOF OLD FROM EVERLASTING. Micah 5:2.
Here is something interesting I learned about these select individual who didn't believe in trinity Andrews died of tuberculosis James white suffered paralytic stroke Joseph bates died due to extreme diet and rebuked by ellen white for this practice Here the interesting kick Ellen white died naturally
Elisha the prophet died because of sickness, Paul was beheaded, disciples were killed in many different ways , Jesus was hanged were they out of doctrine
4:12 Disappointing you would give a false quote that Andrews supposedly penned. Perhaps you are just repeating something you’ve heard in the past and trusted that it was true?
Oh this gets even more interesting Both Waggoners died of a stroke And uriah smith died of stroke Makes you wonder if these in particular leaders were in apostasy
The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden. AA 52.1
This is total misrepresentation of the truth. I feel really sorry for all those who praise this false teacher! The prophet writes; "The Word of God is the great detector of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and preaching. We must study it reverentially. We are to receive no one's opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith. It is the Word of the living God that is to decide all controversies" (The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, pp. 44, 45; cf. The Great Controversy, p. 595). Anti-trinitarians use the Spirit of Prophecy only to get influence, but do they really believe the SOP? Obviously not. When they find their teachings contradict with Bible and SOP, then, they have a most convenient answers for it! You will also find out the anti-trinitarians believe in polytheism! Before you fall into this deception, please search the real truth!
SDA church is nowadays kicking out of synagogue people! My husbands turn is officially next sabbath. This is percecution! Third gen. adventist I left the church voluntarily a couple of years ago. This is Finland... SDA is in skism!
Well, the Bible itself disagrees with Andrews' second quote. Jesus had no beginning. Nothing was made that was not made by Jesus, says so in the KJV. Take the divinity away from Jesus and God only gave a created being to die for me. That's not selfless love. Jesus is God in the flesh, the Bible says this too. So, Andrews is wrong.
An excellent documentary further supporting what all Christians are convinced of. That the gospels were early eyewitness accounts... and the fall of Jerusalem was accurately predicted by our Lord in the synoptic gospels. But the heading of this topic is most misleading. Proof that JESUS IS GOD? What in these findings even suggests what Jesus never claimed? Jesus' personal claim is found at John 10:36. I am God's Son" What IS very interesting is the early reading of 1Timothy 3:16. It read "HE was manifest in the flesh", not as the later KingJames version, which reflected much later trinitarian bias, reading: "God was manifest in the flesh..."
Don't believe everything you hear form Trinity non-believers.. Ellen White wrote that the Holy Spirit is a person with a personality, and she believed it was an actual being.. At Jesus' Baptism was the Father, and the Holy Spirit, showing the Godhead is 3 persons. The Holy Spirit is probably not a human form being like Jesus became, but is more like a spiritual being that we Humans cannot comprehend.. The bible clearly shows that the holy spirit is a being of it's own, and don't just listen to one side of the argument, for there are many teachings on TH-cam by SDA teachers that clearly show the Holy spirit is the 3rd person of the Godhead..
I recently studied the issue for myself, and came to the conclusion that the Trinity is not correct. I will include a link to what I consider to be the most detailed and easy to follow video that I have come across. It is about an hour, but includes very many, many Bible verses and covers all the issues. I think it is a very important issue for the end times. th-cam.com/video/ZmsV8WqkKjY/w-d-xo.html
@Geoff Lohrere "...for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come...I will send {HIM}...and when {HE} is come, {HE} will..Howbeit when {HE}, the spirit of truth,...{HE} will guide you...{HE} shall not speak of {HIMSELF} ; but whatsoever {HE} shall hear, that shall {HE} speak: and {HE} will shew you...{HE} shall glorify me: for {HE} shall receive of mine: therefore said I, that {HE} shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16: Doesn't say IT, it says HE...not a THING, but an HE...not a VAPOR, but a PERSON...to consider the Comforter a vapor is nothing short of pantheism. EG White would not even read the book Dr. Kellogg wrote because of its (his) pantheistic views; to even suggest that the Holy Spirit was not person. She warned the publishers against printing the book; and it was that very book that was on the printing press when God burned down the publishing house...I am having trouble with my tablet, right now, but when it is working again I will add some EGW quotes that clearly shows that the Comforter, The Holy Spirit, is a person. and not a thing... There is no trinity in the Bible. There is a Godhead; made up of three individuals...and these are ONE God.
@Geoff Lohrere of course Christ is a "he". But he did not say that he was going to send himself; he said that he was going to send another person after he left..." When I get home I'm going to send myself back to the world as a comforter." "But I can't send myself back until after I go."? Sounds like a psycho. Christ is in front of His Father's thrown interceding for His people... He sent another person (the Comforter, and third person of the Godhead) to be with us while He is away...John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER Comforter, that HE may abide with you forever;...but ye know HIM; for HE dwelleth with you, and shall be in you"..14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send IN MY NAME, HE shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever {I} have said unto you. There's the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all together. Verse 16 " I will pray the Father " ...person number one, the Father; person number two Christ; person number three, the Comforter... Verse 26 But the Comforter, person number one, the Holy Ghost; whom the Father will send, person number two; in {Christ's} name, person number three... It does not say, "the Father is going to change my name from Christ to Comforter, and send me back to tell you whatsoever I have said unto you...for I shall not speak of myself but I will only speak about myself"...(John 16:13) No matter how you look at it, there are three distinct physical persons in the Godhead... The Father, the Son (Christ), and the Holy Ghost, Comforter, Spirit of Truth...and They are One!!! John 10:30; John 17:11; John 17:22 (just because... Romans 8:9)
shawnncheri young I thank you for this post because this is so very confusing to so many people. There is a Pastor who taught many years that the Holy Spirit was a third being for exactly the same reasons that you point out here. Now that Pastor teaches that Christ speaks often in the third person. Like when he refers to himself as the son of man. He is the Son of man, but is speaking as though the Son of man is someone else. If you choose to know more, contact Pastor Daniel Mesa for his sermons on this subject.
Geoff Lohrere My dear friend in Christ, You have much wisdom about the One True God and EGW’s understanding of this subject. Please, I pray that the undeserved love, and understanding that Christ Shows you....... be also with the spirit you show.
After watching many hours of these videos it seems to me that there is one critical and objective fact that is being ignored. God cannot be legitimately spoken of as "God the Father" until there is a “begotten Son." A part of what God ( אֱלֹהִים / Elohim) is, becomes a type of Father at exactly the same time when another part of what God is (the Word) becomes the only begotten Son - and this is of course at the Incarnation of עִמָּנוּאֵל (Emanuel/God - with us). “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.” “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.” In your description of what God is, you also speak of these 3 aspects. God the Father, the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit which they share. And as near as I can tell, you are not trying to say that Jesus is a created being - are you? Jesus is the Word and without Him was not anything made that was made. The part of Elohim which remained in heaven when The Word became Emanuel (God - with us) acquires another title (one of His 102 different names and titles in the Bible) “God the Father”, at exactly the same time of the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Conception - the Incarnation. Any time before that, Elohim is neither God the Father or the only begotten Son of God. Do you see the problems with speaking about them as if the Word was made by El Elyon at some distant time before time? The Word which becomes Yeshua HaMashiach is still the same yesterday, today and forever, the One and only True God. Elohim, which today we may refer to as God the Father, The Son of God, and the Holy Spirit (which they share), are One and the same as El Shaddai, the Word, and Rauch Elohim. Keep in mind that what has been revealed to mankind about what God is, is adequate to understand what we need to know Him. But all three of the elements that are what God is, should be understood as a useful construct for our necessary understanding but there may always be some incomprehensible aspects of God that we will always be trying to understand. What we do know, is that God is not some sort of Tom, Dick, and Harry alliance of individual Gods, which is the strawman you seem to be setting up to refute. I am not sure anyone actually thinks about God like that. My expectation is that you will want to challenge the idea that the Son of God (the Word) was made, or somehow came into existence separately from God Almighty before the Incarnation of Emanuel. Spare me any evidence that is not directly from the Bible - if that is what you believe. After all of what I have read and seen on your videos, I honestly do not know what you believe that is any different than what I do. And I am ok with the use of the term trinity, even though to me there are only two beings that share one and the same Spirit. God to me is like H2O. Three atoms that make one molecule of Water. They cannot be separated and still be Water. Elohim cannot be separated and still be God.
How can anyone fall for this ? The Holy Spirit is in Christ's own words the one "who leads into all truth", If you fall for this sophistry and believe that the Holy Spirit is not aperson you are all at sea with no navigator ! Christ said he went away so that the Spirit would come and that would be better than his continued physical presence!! Believe what you will , lam for following Christ which is why I left the Adventist church some 40 years ago.
Thank God secular law & order finally stopped the witch killings. I can only imagine if a deity desired my awareness of it, I would probably be aware & if not, then why call deity other than fiction? Christians embarrass & insult us with this barrage of nonsense, retreating into caves like this channel to refuel. Dear Christian Uploader, My god, have you any sense of decency? If everyone is not aware of "the" deity, then it fudges the title a bit, don't you think?
You encourage people to travel as if best done with one foot in fantasyland. Theologians grant each other doctorates based on nothing whatsoever. Christians are fascists, rendering to Caesar what is his, exercising freedom of speech with abuse. The naked ape is a vain species, Christians want to own the narrative, claiming knowledge of a supreme being, which is never verified beyond a tool of fiction. Christians insult intelligence in public, suggesting we travel with a map of fantasyland, walk with one foot in reality & one foot in literary fiction & state propaganda. Christians authorize themselves to weigh-in on whatnot as if Earth had gravity-free zones, & everyone knows it. Christian invocations call into existence evil as good; they are wolves in sheep's clothing. We inherit their vast bulk of our oldest documents, the records of looting & torture: inquisitions. Christians are hypocrites with productions like this, making a scene of praying in the temple. Christians are the lowlifes in society, avoided like the insane pretending to talk to an invisible friend, holding a hairdryer in place of a phone. Christian manufacture ultimate vanity, proclaiming we are all gods, children of the highest god. Democracy is a cult-like faith where many actually believe giving power to others always has consequence which can be tolerably managed by the managers. The models for Limits to Growth of 1973 were accurate. The state has no plans, so the only difference between a Republican & a Democrat is how fast the knee hits the floor when a donor walks in the room & SCOTUS produces stench.
“The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325... This doctrine destroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical history might well cause every believer in that doctrine to blush. {J. N. Andrews, March 6, 1855, Review and Herald, Vol. 6, No. 24, P. 185} “...and as the son of God, he would be excluded also, for he had God for his Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days. So that if we use Paul’s language in an absolute sense, it would be impossible to find but one being in the universe, and that is God the Father, who is without father, or mother, or descent, or beginning of days, or end of life.” {Review and Herald Sept. 7, 1869}. J.N.Andrews - showing clearly that the trinity teaching is not biblical “J.N. Andrews reiterated the common Adventist understanding that God the Father is the supreme source of all life in the universe. In 1874 he writes: “That God is the fountain and source of immortality is plain from the statement of Paul. He speaks thus of God the Father: ‘Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting; Amen.’ 1 Tim. 6:16. This text is evidently designed to teach that the self existent God is the only being who, of himself, possesses this wonderful nature. Others may possess it as derived from him, but he alone is the fountain of immortality Our Lord Jesus Christ is the source of this life to us. ‘For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.’ John 5:26. ‘As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.’ John 6:57. The Father gives us this life in His Son. ‘And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.’ 1Jn 5:11, 12. These Scriptures do clearly indicate that Christ is the source of endless life, and that those only have this who have Christ.” {Review and Herald, Jan. 27, 1874 p.52}. Elder J N Andrews was one of Adventism’s founders and leaders in the highest sense. He is well respected today throughout the Seventh-Day Adventist church. The churches 1st university bears the record of his name and shows the perception of scholarship which has been associated with his Biblical Exegesis.
This is deceptive in teaching. Did Jesus come in 1844? Growth in understanding continues to move forward. Jesus was not the Father but was with the Father at Creation. Jesus is the I Am as well. How can you not see that or that the Holy Spirit is from the Father yet is not the Father? I and my Father are One. Where do you want to stop looking back for the truth and move forward? How much scripture do you need to ignore to keep this belief? Let's keep all of scripture as we keep all of the commandments. God bless.
TRINITY IS A DOCTRINE OF THE BIBLE: There is no "Trinity" word in the Bible. But I will says, it is not Catholic's Doctrine. In fact, it is Bible's Doctrine. But there are verses that supports "Trinity". SDA people believes Trinity. Read the following carefully. This is my view: The Trinity Doctrine: ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN ? ARE BAPTIZED CHRISTIAN? If so, you believe trinity doctrine. When you are baptized, you have been introduced the Three Heads of God, the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST. Q: What the priest say? A: I Baptize you in the name of the "Father", "Son" and the "Holy Spirit". Q: What Jesus said about baptism? A: Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV) 19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" All Christian churches believe in Trinity, knowing or unknowing including this preacher, and therefore they baptize or be baptized in the name the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. If it does not make any sense to you, please, hurl some rough stones of words at me. I'll polish the stone and give you back. 1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Q: What you think? Is "Trinity" a Catholic Doctrine? A: Is a Doctrine of Heaven. Q: Are they Christian, who do not believe "Trinity" but getting baptized? A: Not really; a fake Christian.
yep, most of the pioneers were against the Trinity. Thank God He usedcellen white to lead the church to the biblical truth tgat God is indeed a Trinity
God The Eternal Father was First in point of time. He had no beginning. For He is a Living God. And out of His own Bosom he brought forth his only begotten Son Jesus Christ. John. 17: 8. John. 8: 42. So Jesus Christ's personality had a beginning." From eternity there was a complete unity between the Father and the Son. They were two, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character. Read also Hebrews 1: 8, 9. Jesus Christ takes the mind back to eternity and ages past, when he came from the Father, the only one equal to the Father. Col. 1: 19. The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality.
Pioneer writings are not the bible or the spirit of prophecy, Have a look at this quote from the Desire of ages “In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived.” {Ellen White The Desire of Ages, p. 530}
i came out if the papal church and joined the SDA because through the HOLY SPIRIT led me .Two things i could not comprehend in that church was , why did we go to mass on sunday and why is there three gods ? I found my answers in the SDA church , now iam finding pastors are teaching there are three gods which is puzzeling to me, i have stopped going to church there seems to be a lot of confusion in many matters now . I will stick with my bible and the teachings of ellen white and the early writtings may the love of JESUS and his spirit give you wisdom .
Amen brother
sda church teaches there is one God, not three
Gordo God bless you brother. I won't give you my history, it's too long, but I greatly admire you for following Jesus Christ, no matter what the cost. You are in the position of being able to see falseness because you can OUT of falseness. I can clearly see that there is no other global church that has followed scripture correctly HOWEVER, it has become corrupted. No surprise there. That's warfare. And it was prophesied. Don't fall away, brother, when the persecution comes. I hope you will pray for me to be right with God and Jesus Christ. I will pray for you. Well, here's a quick view of my history. I was baptized as SDA after I attended a Kenneth Cox crusade. I knew what I had heard was correct. But I hadn't been raised going to church and i jist went back to my usual life. Then, 37 years later, God made it clear to me to pick a side as I had transgressed for too long and I too many ways. I chose HIS side. I got ReBaptized & have only missed church one time I the three years since. I told God I would honor His Sabbath Day as He commanded & I would attend church to keep me on track also. But I found what I can only describe as a lack of the Holy Spirit. Not completely. And then as I researched I found how Christmas, Easter, and Valentine's day ate pagan in origin and actually against God. This Christmas I decided to not celebrate these things anymore. Communion is what i do to celebrate the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I've been researching things and I never REALLY understood tge trinity doctrine but I accepted it. When I was baptized in 1981, the trinity had been added to the sda fundamentals the year before. When I recently learned that, all kinds of red flags went up in my head! I dont think leaving the church is correct for me right now. But it will go against my logic to stay when I finally establish fully I my mind the trinity is wrong. I'm not the studious type unfortunately. But I will research enough to allow God to open my eyes. Idk why I'm telling you all this. I guess it's because I wanted to encourage you in your walk with God because you can out of great darkness (Catholicism) and because-maybe selfishly- I'd like your prayers for God to open my eyes and clear the confusion about this. Another problem I have with SDA is the abortion position. Again, the position was not always that way. That old evil one has infiltrated. But your coming out of darkness is encouraging to me and I pray you keep finding and following Jesus Christ always. Hope we see each other rising at the second coming of our Savior. 🙏
@@rickyfreeman1 One God of three co-equal persons.
Blasphemy.
@@rickhinojosa5455 The S.D.A. church and Ellen White have never understood or been filled with the Holy Spirit.
Don't get me wrong, many charismatic and Pentecostal churches have a false experience they call the Holy Spirit, but that does not excuse denying God's spiritual power and being spiritually dead.
Awesome. And the truth shall set you free.
Worship Him who made Heavens and the Earth. Fear Him that the Bible teaches. Trinitarian doctrines creeping into the Adventist church is a total contradiction to the Bible truth.
Best video I have seen in two or three years. I've searched the scriptures and I don't need to try to prove to anyone where I stand in regards to the trinity. My position is the trinity is a false pagan belief that will cause many Christians to miss out on salvation. It boils down to this when Christ opens the book of Life and he sees our hearts every one of us should while we're alive and able to think with the brains God gave us. We should ask ourselves what are we going to say to Christ can we defend our position. If you believe in the trinity there is no way it is not possible it will never happen that anyone can prove this ludicrous erroneous idea or methodology in regards to this Trinity but if Christ were to ask me why I don't believe in the trinity and I believe in him and his father in heaven and their spirit I have so many Bible verses in the Old testament and New testament interviews from our pioneers that proves the trinity does not make any sense and can't be proven. I'm not a pastor I'm not a Bible scholar I'm a sinner with common sense and a lot of people really should humble themselves and read the Bible and listen to the holy Spirit speak to them and start practicing what you're going to say to Christ on judgment Day. I'm not judging anyone Jesus will do that. But right this second if Jesus asked me why I believe like I do I can confidently tell him why I believe it improve it with scripture if you think it's going to be difficult to prove your case in regards to the trinity you really should start thinking about it now you're never promised a tomorrow. If you want to follow the crowd and jump off the bridge like they're doing go for it and do it. If you think well right now I'm having fun enjoying life I'll get things right with God and I'll follow what's right when I get a little older good luck to you. I've been a radiology technologist 30 years and I've worked with the forensic pathologist in the hospitals in other words I would x-ray people after they died to find out why they died. When I first started that job I remember asking myself the same question every single day as I looked into the eyes of someone that does not have a soul it's just a body. I would wonder I wonder if that person was ready to meet Christ or they waiting and having fun and then later in life they would make their decision. I don't know the answers I don't know what their thoughts were the last 10 seconds of their lives but I've x-rayed infants children teens adults and the elderly the reason I even brought this up is because I'm guilty. When I was younger I was one of those people that wanted to not be a Christ follower I was an Adventist that's what I called myself but the things I did were of the world and to be honest even as bad as I was I always felt guilty when I was sinning but it was a whole lot worse on Friday nights and Saturdays when Christ says he knocks on the door to your heart he's not joking but I learned he knocks a lot harder on Friday nights and Saturdays. I've been very very lucky if I had died at any moment during those years I already know that my name would not be in the book of life there's no way if you're willing to gamble with salvation you can gamble with it but when you gamble there's always that chance you'll lose if you seriously love Christ and seriously want to be with him in heaven don't wait I'm making that choice. I wrote a song years ago when I came back to the church and I called it I'll praise his name I'll never forget the last verse of the song I wrote it went like this. If I should die before I wake will it be heaven or hell because it's my soul at stake
As an SDA pastor, I have just recently accepted the Father Son message.
I am saddened to hear that you as a SDA pastor would accept this decade old Arian heresy. It is plain and clear that their teaching is not biblical. If you have any questions about the heavenly Godhead, I would be more than happy to answer you.
@@ChristAdventwitness please study this properly. Arius had the truth and he was murdered for it. Read the history. So you know why the three kingdoms, the three horns were destroyed by the papacy? Most don't even know this. They were all followers of Arius.
By being a Nicean, which you are, you condone what they did to him and the kingdoms.
Jesus is the literal Son of God, he is not role playing or just acting a role. Please consider that you might be deceived. I have fought against this for a long time, giving all the arguments you want to give me. But I'm open and you're welcome to share. Are you willing to do the same?
@@johansteyn3756 You said, "Arius had the truth and he was murdered for it."
Arius, the 4th century A.D thinker and writer, taught that Christ had a beginning. There must have been a time, therefore, when he did not exist. So he denied the eternal preexistence of Jesus Christ. "There was a time when Jesus was not" was Arius's classic declaration. In other words, Arius and his followers held that Christ did not exist before the Father brought Him into existence. Arians have also consistently denied the personhood of the Holy Spirit. He reduced Jesus Christ to a created being like you and me! And this work of evil has led millions to a false gospel ever since. If Jesus was a created being, His death could not atone for my sins!
How did he die?
'It was a mysterious death. No thug had attacked the theologian to lay him low. No sadist had slit open his body. No weapon in human hand did the deed. It just seemed to happen. Might it have been the direct vengeance of God? The historian Socrates was inclined to think so.'
Many historians have compared the mysterious death of Arius the philosopher to recall the spontaneous disembowelment of an earlier enemy in Christianity, Judas, who fell face first, burst open, and died according to the Acts of the Apostles (Acts 1:16-19)
@@ChristAdventwitness please study this matter further. It is very clear that he was murdered. Don't just read Roman Catholic historians recount.
Yes he did believe that Jesus had a beginning. Then people just assume He was created, just as Russel did.
I have two sons, yet I did not create them. Do you have children? Did you make them? Make and born is not the same thing.
Please also study the prophecy of Daniel 7 where he proohecied that three kingdoms would be uprooted by a small horn coming out, the Antichrist power.
Until 538AD the papacy completely destroyed the kingdoms. Why? Because they were followers of Arius.
@@ChristAdventwitness this is what Arius believed:
Heb 1:5-6 MKJV1962 5 For to which of the angels did He say at any time, You are My Son, this day I have begotten You? And again, I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son? 6 And again, when He brings in the First-born into the world, He says, And let all [the] angels of God worship Him.
This is why he was killed. Unless you think the bishops prayer were answered exactly as he prayed that Arius must die. Is that what you believe?
I felt a chill watching this. It is a precious truth indeed. The church must know this as a witness in order for Jesus to return again. God will bring out a remnant that holds firm to this truth. Thank you so much for your ministry!
Thanks so much servants of God. Glory be to God! The most urgent need of the seventh day Adventist church at present time is the correct understanding of the early Adventist's understanding of the Godhead and unlearn the pagan doctrine of Trinity( Catholism) which has swept almost the entire Church to worship the unknown god. May God open the eyes of these beautiful souls so that they can see the strong delusion in which they're in. May God bless you and your ministry.
You are talking wisdom.
You are talking out of your ass. Please explain how the trinity is pagan?
it should be good that you finally cease to resist to the basic teaching of the Christian faith
U should start by unlearning the bible , its totally catholic book, funny things about feeble, brain damaged minded trashes , are the more u things wants to prove something against the catholic church , the more u are becoming one . think about it .
mpanda Mulusa, Amen!
I've already commented on this video but, after reading several more comments just now, I'm impressed to make this additional comment: I fear that there are two groups that are being misled on this subject: a) people who are following the nineteenth-century pioneers of the advent movement and b) people who are following the current leadership of the SdA organization.
Please, if you consider yourself to be in either of those two groups, undertake to study this subject for yourself and see whether you then agree with the comments I have made previously in the comment section. Much of the confusion has to do with what language we choose to use on this subject, some of which language creates unnecessary barriers to dialog, not only on this subject but other subjects as well.
"The Holy Spirit is Christ's REPRESENTATIVE but divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof. Cumbered with humanity, Christ could NOT be in every place personally THEREFORE it was for their interest that He (Christ) should go to the Father, and SEND the Spirit to be His successor on earth" (Desire of Ages pg 669)
I agree. So your message makes this anti trinity video clearly a false message.
I surely wish I could like 👍 this video more than just once... 😏
More, More & Thankyou!
Praise the Lord..!
*³ And this is Life Eternal, that they might know Thee The Only True God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent.*
*-John 17:3*
Amen! The truth is so liberating, as Romans 1:17 tells us, "... For therein is the righteousness of GOD revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, the just shall live by faith...."
I am listening to this teaching every now and then, and have these sincere questions: did Jesus came down on Himself when He was baptized? What is the unpardonable sin: against Chirst or against Christ? Is Christ the "Other" Comforter too? What about 1John 5:7? What about E White statements of "the Trio", and all the other statements regarding the Holy Spirit not being Christ? On what bases does the devil counterfeits his trinity if there is not a genuine? More questions from both Bible and SOP in my head.
These questions are legitimate and you will eventually receive an understanding as you continue to search this out. Satan's counterfeit of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. There is complete agreement on either side that there are three in the godhead, but there is disagreement regarding the nature of those three. Even modalism incorporates all three so Satan has the freedom to manipulate the three anyway he chooses. In paganism's trinity I believe there is typically a tri-theistic godhead. Non-trinny's are Trinitarians in the sense that they believe in the 3 persons of the godhead (with persons defined in the proper terms), the heavenly trio, etc. It's 4am so I'm not totally with it but fee free to give me feedback. Blessings
This is a bad message from the devil to split up and divide the sda church
Know the history of GOD people and what what happened in AD 321 ..
It is my first time to come across this information. If possible , may I please get the web where I can download the pioneers fundamental beliefs . Thank you. God bless.
How do you perceive the difference between a creed and a list of "Fundamental Beliefs"?
Disappointing you would present a supposed statement from J.N. Andrews that he never wrote and pawn it off as if he had.
@@eddieclark7025 what is the statement Brother?
@@AlineLegault “Every member of the human family, except Adam, has had parents, and every one has had beginning of days; and indeed, with two exceptions, everyone has had end of life. Even the angels of God have all had beginning of days, so that they would be as much excluded by this language as the members of the human family. And as to the Son of God, he would be excluded also, for he had God for his Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days.” {J.N. Andrews, RH, September 7, 1869}
@@eddieclark7025 he never wrote this?
It’s not about what the pioneers believed then, but what the Bible and the SOP say. Hebrews 1:13,14 - “But to which of the angels said He at anytime, . . . Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation.” Here it says that angels are ministering spirits. SOP says that The Holy Spirit has not been revealed about His nature, but He is a being, a person.
The Holy Spirit is God.
You know in that same chapter, God the Father calls the Son God....
Amen, amen and amen. This is excellent. No honest Christian can argue with it. Praise God 🤗.
Stephen Lake
The Triune God is biblical.
@@jtomas3611 Amen
Not true brother. He is wrong, see my post
@@jtomas3611 God is not an essence that manifests himself in 3 beings. He's a personal spiritual being. The Holy Spirit points to Jesus, Jesus points us to The Father, The One True God. 2 point specifically back to 1.
@Game Master Good verse but that still points to Jehova as a personal spiritual being. If you seen him you've seen the father because he's the representitive of the father. Being 1 means in mind character and purpose, I reccomend you research what sheliak in Hebrew. (1 Cor 15:24-28) It's clear the bible teaches monotheism because God doesn't have to give anything back because he's the owner of all things.
BRILLIANT..... Every aspect of this presentation is so clear. A person would have to really work at pleasing other people in order to not understanding this very simple, very clear, truth about Our Heavenly Father and His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON Christ Jesus.
Amen, Galatians 1:10 if any man want to please men, He/She is not the servants of Christ
Are these people teaching that there is No holy Spirit? Ellen White wrote that the holy spirit is a person, with a personality.. They are picking and choosing what and how they view her writings on the Holy Spirit.. Besides, the early writings were sometimes changed, as they were still learning, and studying.. They first believed in the 2300 year prophesy, but then had to discard that idea. And there were other beliefs that they changed as they studied, including the 1844 day of Atonement understanding.. At Jesus' baptism, the Father, and the holy spirit, were present, showing there are 3 persons of the Godhead.. People are Baptized in the name of the Holy Spirit also.. It seems that the holy spirit is not a being in the human form like Jesus came, but none the less, the spirit is a being of some kind.. How can we mortals comprehend what the Holy Spirit is? Our minds are limited to this world, and know nothing of God's world, or the spiritual world.. Check out some other SDA youtube videos by other teachers, like Doug Batchelor, Prophesy again TV with Andrew Henriquez, Stephen Bohr, Saving Health Ministries with David House, Dwayne Lemon, or Amazing Word Ministries, just to mention a few.. Look at both sides of the Holy Spirit issue.. Even the book, 28 fundamental beliefs of the SDA church, says the Church believes in the 3 persons of the Godhead..
@@tomk2005 Hello brother there is no such teaching like that. We believe that there is Holy Spirit which is Spirit of the Father and His Son. Our foundation is in the word of GOD and not in the man's creed. We can know what the Holy Spirit is, based upon what GOD reveals in His Word.
You can read this two quotations below:
Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth. "The Holy Spirit is Himself divested of the personality of humanity and independent thereof". He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent. {14MR 23.3}
It is not essential for you to know and be able to define just what the Holy Spirit is. Christ tells us that the Holy Spirit is the Comforter, and the Comforter is the Holy Ghost, "the Spirit of truth, which the Father shall send in My name." "I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him, for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you" [John 14:16, 17]. This refers to the omnipresence of the Spirit of Christ, called the Comforter. {14MR 179.2}
@@ivan7895ify, Hello Brother in Christ.. I will believe EGW before I believe a non prophet.. She says that the Holy Spirit is a person, with a personality, and I believe her inspired words of God in her writings, over mortal man's word.. Like the founders said, "show me from the bible my error".. There is No clear verse that says the Holy Spirit is Not a being, no more than there is a clear verse that says that Sunday is now the Sabbath day of the Lord, or that the Commandments were done away with.. Also I cannot figure out how the holy spirit in the form of a dove, is Jesus landing on Himself, for that makes No sense.. The bible also refers to the holy spirit, and the comforter, as "He", not "it".. You can make a lot of scripture fit your teaching, but there is too much against it to make me believe it.. Also if you say that EGW was incorrect in her writing on this point, then we could not believe any other of her writings either. And the same would go for the Bible.. Either it is all God's inspiration, or it is not. God does Not make errors, or change His mind..
@@tomk2005 Matthew 3:16 is clear that the Spirit of GOD and not GOD the Spirit descend from heaven.
There is no single verse in the bible says that Holy Spirit is another being than God and His Son. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father and Christ (Romans 8:9)
I also gave you two witness from Spirit of Prophecy before, that says the Holy Spirit is Christ himself, because it is His Spirit.
This quotation below is talking about baptism of Jesus, and Ellen White clearly says that Holy Spirit which came down from heaven is His Father's Glory, and why dove? Because it is the symbol of character of Christ
Never before have the angels listened to such a prayer. They are eager to bear to their loved Commander a message of assurance and comfort. But no; the Father Himself will answer the petition of His Son. Direct from the throne issue the beams of His glory. The heavens are opened, and upon the Saviour's head descends a dovelike form of purest light, - fit emblem of Him, the meek and lowly One - DA 112.1
Well done! Praise be to God our Father & our Lord Jesus Christ!
So simple a child can understand.
WOOW! GOD BLESS THIS MESSAGE AND SPREAD THIS ACROSS THE WORLD
In reference to 1John 5:7 I think we non-Trinitarian’s are misunderstanding this Biblical passage especially when we include the next verse. Verse 8 reads; “And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” Here, we see it is talking about three different substances all having unity. At verse 7 we read; “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, (the word is Christ) and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Again, it is speaking the same as verse 8. Verse 7 is showing us unity of the Father, His Word, (Christ) and their spirit, the Holy Ghost. And YES, THESE THREE ARE ONE. Like Christ tells us, “I and the Father are one.” How are they one? Through Holy Spirit. So, will someone please tell me why we should read this as supporting the Trinity? I just don’t see it when I read it in context.
Do a search on this text. If you have access to a paper copy of the SDA Commentary look at !John 1:5 Papre because it has been removed from digital copies.
I'd recommend a book called "In Defense of the Authenticity of 1 John 5:7" by C.H. Pappas. This will give you a deeper understanding of the subtleties of the original language that leave the meaning beyond doubt. The question is, what did the author (John) mean by "One"? Can't we take something from John's words in John 1:1? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Notice the capitalization of the 'W' in Word.
Note also in John 20:28 the words that John chooses to capture between Jesus and doubting Thomas: "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God".
I'm not an expert on Trinity, none Trinity, but thanks to you and other I'm becoming one. I screenshot every one of the quotes presented. I'm not really sure how this effects the Gospel, but this will surely rock the church like no other controversy we have ever had in our history. The GC in session is only a year away.
Brother Bill I encourage you to stay with the minority anti-trinitarians who are faithful and still holding on to the teachings of the early pioneer adventists. The truth has always been with the minority & not the majority. Read the bible, Enoch, Noah, Lot, Elijah, Jeremiah, Daniel & the 3 Hebrew boys, John the Baptist, Christ & 12 disciples, the Reformers, Waldensians, Huguenots, it was a minority against a majority. The weight of evidence is overwhelmingly on the side of the minority because Satan has deceived the whole world into worshipping him through sunday & trinity doctrine. Both are sister deceptions manufactured by Rome.
@@jefferykaupa5118 Is it true that remaining in the church is akin to idolatry
@@TheBeijingbill The SDA Church has changed gods in its history. The church of God is not a denomination name or building but the faithful men and women who keep the commandments of the only true God and His only begotten Son. The bible tells us that we are the temple of God. Thus, you don't need a denomination to save you but Christ alone, no wonder Christ by His Spirit is present when two or three are gathered to worship the true God. Thus, our message is to return back to the true God of our pioneers because somewhere in our church history, she changed gods. Thus, the true original Adventists are the anti-trinitarians & not the trinitarians of today.
“The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325... This doctrine destroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical history might well cause every believer in that doctrine to blush. {J. N. Andrews, March 6, 1855, Review and Herald, Vol. 6, No. 24, P. 185}
“...and as the son of God, he would be excluded also, for he had God for his Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days. So that if we use Paul’s language in an absolute sense, it would be impossible to find but one being in the universe, and that is God the Father, who is without father, or mother, or descent, or beginning of days, or end of life.” {Review and Herald Sept. 7, 1869}.
J.N.Andrews - showing clearly that the trinity teaching is not biblical
“J.N. Andrews reiterated the common Adventist understanding that God the Father is the supreme source of all life in the universe. In 1874 he writes: “That God is the fountain and source of immortality is plain from the statement of Paul. He speaks thus of God the Father: ‘Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting; Amen.’ 1 Tim. 6:16. This text is evidently designed to teach that the self existent God is the only being who, of himself, possesses this wonderful nature. Others may possess it as derived from him, but he alone is the fountain of immortality Our Lord Jesus Christ is the source of this life to us. ‘For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.’ John 5:26. ‘As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.’ John 6:57. The Father gives us this life in His Son. ‘And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.’ 1Jn 5:11, 12.
These Scriptures do clearly indicate that Christ is the source of endless life, and that those only have this who have Christ.” {Review and Herald, Jan. 27, 1874 p.52}.
Elder J N Andrews was one of Adventism’s founders and leaders in the highest sense. He is well respected today throughout the Seventh-Day Adventist church. The churches 1st university bears the record of his name and shows the perception of scholarship which has been associated with his Biblical Exegesis.
My wife and I were born and raised in the Midwest. We met in Iowa, were married in Iowa and our children were born in Iowa. In 1982, Sally accepted a position at the University of Utah Medical Center and we didn’t move back to the Midwest until 2007.
Between ‘82 and ‘07, I had many conversions with LdS missionaries, perhaps none more interesting than in 2007. After assuring two young missionaries on our porch that I had seen several presentations of the origin of the LdS Church, they accepted my invitation to come into our home. Their presentation, as is customary, included a number of questions.
As had been the case with previous encounters with LdS missionaries in our home, these two told me my answers to their questions were different from any answers they had heard before. But then one of them asked whether they could return at a later date because he thought maybe I’d be able to answer a question he had about a recent encounter between the missionaries and a Lutheran pastor.
We set up an appointment.
When they returned, the missionaries told me they had visited a Lutheran pastor in his office. He seemed quite friendly during the introductions and small talk but his demeanor changed drastically when they told him they were there to tell him about how the gospel had been restored. In fact, he was barely civil toward them after that. The missionaries wondered whether I could explain that phenomenon.
I asked the missionaries whether they had any idea what Lutherans and other protestants mean when they use the word, “gospel”.
The missionaries looked at each other and quickly realized they had NO idea.
Why?
Because the LdS “gospel” is the doctrine that spiritual authority was lost after the death of the apostles of Jesus, that it was “restored through Joseph Smith and his successors” and that, therefore, the only way to obtain spiritual authority in the twenty-first century is from or through the officers of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
So I explained to the missionaries that protestants generally capitalize the word, “Gospel” when referring to the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John but use the lowercase “gospel” to refer to one or both of two other things a) the story of Jesus as recorded in the Gospels and/or b) the doctrine that sin has separated humans from our creator and that Jesus provides reconciliation between God and humankind.
What, exactly is “the Adventist Message”?
More specifically, what do the lay members of the SdA denomination think “the Adventist Message” is?
Some undoubtedly think it is a “message” about a religious organization. Mark Finley (in a televised series of “meetings” in 2008) expressed this perspective when he said, “We agree (with a papist in Ireland) there is only one decision we need to make - Which is the right Church?”
I’ve only heard one Adventist answer the question this way (but there are probably others) - “(The Adventist Message is) that Satan is our sin-bearer."
There are probably many more who think the Adventist Message is that if anyone realizes the biblical sabbath is the seventh day of the week and continues to worship the Lord on the first day of the week, that person is doomed to the lake of fire.
Is “the Adventist Message” different from what most protestants mean by “the gospel”?
No. And yes.
No in the sense that most (probably all) SdA believe sin has separated humans from our creator and that Jesus provides reconciliation between God and humankind.
Yes in the sense that “the Adventist Message” includes much more. The primary adventist emphasis is (or once was) the purpose of the second advent of Jesus. (Some members of the SdA organization fail to understand the connection between the phrase “second advent” and the word, “Adventist” in the name of the organization) but what else is included in “the Adventist Message” depends on whom you ask.
Is the exact nature of God or how we explain his nature part of “the Adventist Message”?
The people who made this video and most of the people who have posted in this comment section seem to think so.
I don’t think so. I think it HELPS to understand the nature of God in the way I understand him but, if there is a way a person’s understanding of the nature of God affects his ability to understand the purpose of the second advent of Jesus, I’m not aware of it. That Jesus can never be a political king - i.e. that he can never use or encourage his followers to use coercion - is far more relevant to the purpose of his second advent than the exact relationship between Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Evaluating and interpreting later revelation by earlier revelation is far more relevant to the purpose of the second advent than the exact relationship between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Papists are wrong to be followers of the pope.
Not all Lutherans are followers of Luther but those who do are wrong too.
Not all methodists are followers of John Wesley but those who do are wrong too.
Not all Seventh-day Adventists are followers of Ellen White, James White, John Nevins Andrews, Joseph Bates, J.N. Loughborough, J.H. Waggoner or Uriah Smith but those who do are wrong too.
I have plenty of criticisms of the Seventh-day Adventist organization but I think most of the people who are making videos critical of the organization are simply trying to gain followers for themselves.
I prefer to be a follower of Jesus so I sure don’t want anyone to think of himself as a follower of yours truly.
We have listened to pioneers. Fine. What about the prophetess? Whose authority will you follow, the pioneers' or the prophetess'? All the texts that appear to make Jesus less than God the Father, or to be a being generated of God are really against a proper understanding of the plan of salvation and the divinity of Jesus. The Bible tells us that there is one God and that there is no other God before me. And guess who that God speaking was? None other than Jesus. God gave us EW to put matters straight. We do not have to hold the Catholic concept of the Trinity which is actually different than the biblical one, or the Godhead of the Bible. Let the Bible speak for itself with the illumination of the SOP today and you are safe. I admonish you all to focus on the Bible and the SOP and there is little room for error. Blessings.
Ron Henderson: What did Ellen herself say about the testimony of pioneers of the early SDA church?
"The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of re-organization. Were this reformation to take place, what would result? The principles of truth that God in His wisdom has given to the remnant church, would be discarded. Our religion would be changed. THE FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES THAT HAVE SUSTAINED THE WORK FOR THE PAST FIFTY YEARS WOULD BE ACCOUNTED AS ERROR. A new organization would be established. Books of a new order would be written. A system of intellectual philosophy would be introduced. The founders of this system would go into the cities, and do a wonderful work. The Sabbath, of course, would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it. Nothing would be allowed to stand in the way of the new movement. The leaders would teach that virtue is better than vice, but God being removed, they would place their dependence on human power, which, without God, is worthless. Their foundation would be built on the sand, and storm and tempest would sweep away the structure"
@@sasquatchmeridian3094 Just study what Ellen White said about the Godhead issue...
I am very thankful for this video; clear presentation of the error of the trinity belief that unfortunately is one of the SDA fundamental beliefs. I was skeptical at first and didn’t want to accept this truth; the more I watched and the more I saw supporting biblical teachings, I could not deny this as truth; indeed it is truth! Praise God for revealing more truth to me. When we live up to the light we have, God will give us more light 🙌🏼✔️🙏🏼!!!
How do you know it's False. One Almighty God consisting in 3 persons. This is the stated position of the Protestant Churches.
The SDA Pioneers were really really bad at interpreting Scripture. 🙂
THE DESIRE OF AGES, PAGE 530
"Still seeking to give a true direction to her faith, Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life. “He that believeth in Me,” said Jesus, “though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die."
Life, Original, Unborrowed, Underived.
“Jesus declared, “I am the resurrection, and the life.” In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. “He that hath the Son hath life.” The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life.” - The Desire of Ages, page 530, (1898).
Based on the mentioned quotation in Ellen White's 1898 publication of The Desire of Ages, some scholars claim that though Ellen White was initially non-trinitarian, she later became a trinitarian. They say, “Here is evidence. Christ's life is original. Therefore, He has always been and, therefore, He is co-eternal with the Father. Also, His life is Unborrowed and Underived. Therefore, He could not have been begotten of the the Father in eternity. Rather, He is self-existent and has always existed.”
The problem with their reasoning is this. Trinitarians have red statements such as the one mentioned and immediately formed opinions and reached conclusions that can be proven wrong by other inspired statements related to the topic, sometimes some statements from the very same article or book. Their conclusions are always hasty and incorrect, which readily-available documentation can show. The Spirit of Prophecy will explain itself very clearly. So what does that statement mentioned really tell us? It is always wise to read a quotation in question in its original context.
“In him was life; and the life was the light of men” (John 1 verse 4). It is not physical life that is here specified, but immortality, the life which is exclusively the property of God. The Word, who was with God, and who was God, had this life. Physical life is something which each individual receives. It is not eternal or immortal; for God, the Life-giver, takes it again. Man has no control over his life. But the life of Christ was unborrowed. No one can take this life from Him. “I lay it down of myself” (John 10 verse 18), He said. In Him was life, original, unborrowed, underived. This life is not inherent in man. He can possess it only through Christ. He cannot earn it; it is given him as a free gift if he will believe in Christ as his personal Saviour. “This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (John 17 verse 3). This is the open fountain of life for the world.” (1 Selected Messages, page 296).
From the full context we plainly learn that “original, Unborrowed, underived” life can be given. It will be given to all those who believe. This is in harmony with the words of Christ, when He said that God the Father had given Him life: “For as the Father has life in Himself; so has He also given to the Son to have life in Himself.” (John 5 verse 26.) What life would would the Son have been given? The life which was the Father's own original, Unborrowed, Underived life.
We know that in the Scripture quoted, Christ is talking about eternal life. To ascertain this fact, all we need to ask ourselves the question. “What kind of life does God the Father has in Himself?” Reason tell us it certainly cannot be mortal life. It can only be immortal life. Scripture states as much about the Father in first Timothy 6 verse 16. “Who only hath immortality.”
As human offspring receive mortal life from their parents, so this immortal life was given to Christ by virtue of His divine birth, having been begotten with that life. Thus the Father's life is also the Son's life, through inheritance. God the Father is the “source of all life.” Ministry of Healing, page 397, “of whom are all things.” first Corinthians 8 verse 6. Christ inherited the Father's life by birth. “I came forth from the Father.” John 16 verse 28. The one true God is both the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Being the Father's only begotten Son, Christ naturally is the only one who has the same life as God His Father, whose life is rightly described as “original, unborrowed, underived.” Christ inherited that same “original, unborrowed, underived” life that the Source of all life possessed to give Him.
Indeed Christ received all things from the Father. He received the Father's life as His own, and it is the Father's life that flows through Christ to all who believe in the Son. It is the Father's life that we receive through Christ. “All things Christ received from God, but took to give. So in the heavenly courts, in His ministry for all created beings: through the beloved Son, the Father's life flows out to all, through the Son it returns, in praise and joyous service, a tide of love, to the great Source of all.” (Desire of Ages, page 21.)
“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life,” Christ declares. “No one comes to the Father but by me.” Christ is invested with power to give life to all creatures.” (Review and Herald, April 5, 1906.) So what kind of life does He have the authority to give to all of His redeemed ones? The Father's “original, unborrowed, underived life,” which flows from the Father to us, a life which is immortal. Wonderful reality!
“As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.” John 17 verse 2.
“These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.” first John 5 verse 13.
The true explanation of that quotation from the Desire of Ages does not cast doubt or confusion on the passages in the writings of Ellen White or the Bible, but, instead, each one clarifies and complements the other to lead to an understanding that inspires faith, that we may “believe on the Son of God,” and have the assurance that we have eternal life. Nothing on earth can compare to the riches of that promise to us.
“The Word of God contains our life insurance policy. To eat the flesh and drink the blood of the Son of God means to study the Word and to carry that Word into the life in obedience to all its precepts. Those who thus partake of the Son of God become partakers of the divine nature, one with Christ. They breathe a holy atmosphere, in which only the soul can truly live. They carry in their lives an assurance of the holy principles received from the Word-their lives are worked by the power of the Holy Spirit, and they have an earnest of the immortality that will be theirs through the death and resurrection of Christ. Should the earthly body decay, the principles of their faith sustain them, for they are partakers of the divine nature. Because Christ was raised from the dead, they grasp the pledge of their resurrection, and eternal life is their reward.
This truth is an eternal truth, because Christ Himself taught it. He has engaged to raise the righteous dead, for He gave His life for the life of the world. “As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me” (John 6 verse 57). “I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger” (verse 35).” Upward Look, page 78.)
Please read my reply to Shauvaro Patrick.
We have received some responses from our short survey.
The question was, “Is the One God who is a unity of three persons also a person himself? That is, will we see the one in three god in heaven when we get there? Does this triune god have the throne of his own besides that of the Father and of the Son?”
The responses are very conflicting and confusing. Please consider them for yourself.
1. A pastor said yes, the three persons make up one person. Asked to clarify how, the pastor has not come back to us yet.
2. A theologian said, they do not make one person, it is impossible to make one person from three persons. The Father is the unity of the trinity, and He is the One God. That raises many questions. If the Father is the One God, where is the triune God? How can the Father be a unity of himself and two others, to make one, if he is already the one?
3. Another person whose title is unknown said that the three persons of the trinity do not form one person. They are One God only in terms of having one purpose.
4. From our previous experiences, we have heard some say the One God of the Bible is the Godhead, i.e. just a divinity or deity, without further clarity on what that is?
5. Another theologian said that the One God who is a unity of three persons is not material or physical. That means the One God is an abstraction. In other words, he is a theory, or a concept in the minds of those who believe in him. We question. The Bible refers to the One God as “He” and he speaks. How can an abstraction, a theory or a concept in the mind be referred to as He? Does a concept speak?
6. Another person said the One God is a mystery, thus leaving the One God undefined. Sounds like a quick way for human wisdom to escape accountability for the confusion that human wisdom has created (akin to pleading insanity in court). We raise an issue with this unexplained mystery of human wisdom. The trinity doctrine, that is put together by human minds gives us the triune God. Thus, those who made the trinity doctrine must be able to explain it. In other words, we are not questioning the Bible, but the trinity doctrine, because the trinity doctrine is a product of human wisdom.
I don’t know about you, but this sounds like a lot of confusion. It seems there is no one with a clear understanding of what this human creation called the triune god is? To those who say it is a mystery we question. Why should human wisdom create a doctrine which it cannot explain and cannot understand? Is that not a reason to discard the doctrine and return to that only which the Bible says, that the is One God, the Father, who has Only One begotten Son. The One God, the Father has and is also a Spirit? No three equal persons making up confusion?
Regards,
The Rock Fortress Ministries.
Thanks Jesus as the only begotten son of God
well done i am a member of a reform group in saint lucia and have been trying to show this to my brethren smh its hard for them to belive it i pray God that he open our hearts
I am sorry, you have not carefully examined their teachings according to the law and testomony (Isaiah 8:20) under the guidance of heavenly teacher, the Holy Spirit! Pl. pray and study the Bible. The true Adventism believes in 'one true God' exists in THREE ETERNAL PERSONS, thats the heavenly Trio (three persons).
God is NOT one person as some trying to tell you. In the heavenly Godhead, each person is not 'a' God,; it is the three persons that are God, or make up the Godhead. It is like having a government, which is a singular word but made up of a number of members. No single member is the government, but all makes up that government as individual members.
you need to study what is the alpha and omega of deadly heresies
Have you checked what E.G.White says about Jesus as God or what she says about the Holy Spirit?
[ Thankfully Brothers and Sisters For Thise presentations Of MESSAGES GIVEN BY THE HOLY GHOST IN THE SUPREME NAME OF OUR ALMIGHTY HEAVENLY LIVING GOD JESUS CHRIST OUR LIVING POWERFUL WAY, LIGHT, TRUTH, REEDEMER AND JUSTICE ETERNALLY ]
Typical non trinitarian teaching. They left out all of the pro trinity quotes. Be Bereans or be deceived.
Thank you brother! Amin, and Amin!
Amen🙏🏼❤️❤️🌍🇺🇬
KJV Jeremiah 6:16-17
16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
Our local church of which I was a member recently split. The portion I am a member of has recently come to understand the truth concerning the trinity and its origins. As stated in the video, this doctrine was added to the early church by the council of Nice. Paul himself said the spirit of anti-Christ was already at work. We know that the end times will hold strong delusion, not just for the Godless masses, but most importantly, for many apostate Christians. We MUST search the scriptures for ourselves prayerfully asking for the leading of the father's Spirit. Remember there is only a remnant that will be saved. Most will be lost. If the doctrine of the trinity is held by the majority, then I would be seriously and prayerfully looking at it again.
The most important Adventist is left out. Mrs Ellen White. Read in Great Controversy under the chapter: "Snares of Satan" from the statement " Another dangerous error is the doctrine that denies the deity of Christ..." The very text that gave the JWs their name also applies to Adventist Unitarians: "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. Isaiah 43:10.
Please read my reply to Shauvaro Patrick.
its amazing how the narrator does not included even one Ellen White quote! or should i say typical....
Amen and amen...be blessed
IT IS THE PRECIOUS TRUTH INDEED..
I’m 77. My parents were adventists before I was born. I was “always” aware that there were members of the SdA organization who were less protestant than I was but I “always” thought of my parents and myself as adventist protestants. It wasn't until about 2008 that I discovered that there were members of the SdA organization who didn’t consider themselves protestant at all.
I don’t remember whether I watched this video or not (I don’t remember much anymore) but I’m asking anyone who is a Seventh-day Adventist to answer these questions:
1: Do you consider yourself protestant?
2: Do you have any idea whether other members of your local congregation consider themselves protestant? If so, do you think most of them do? Or do you think most of them don’t?
1. Yes, I consider myself a protestant and that the reformation has not died.
2. I left the local congregation because of what this video is speaking about. When most of the pioneers did not support the trinity doctrine, it dosent make sense that Ellen did. If almost all the pioneers was in error regarding the trinity doctrine, I am sure that God would have corrected the pioneers through His messenger, Ellen White. Even the first fundamental pillars did not support a trinity doctrine, and if they had been in error, I am sure that God would not allow them to set those pillars of faith.
Maybe this is the reason why so many in the SDA organization dont see themselves as a protestant, because they have invited the Catholic trinity doctrine into the church. Im glad to see that we still have a 77 years old SDA that is protestant! 😃 May God and His Son be with you, through Their Spirit.
@@Lindstad777 Thanks for responding to my questions. The following is for anyone who may be following the discussion on this thread but, because you are the only one to reply so far, I’m addressing it to you,
As mentioned in my previous comment, I didn’t remember whether I had watched this particular video.
Well, now I have watched it and realize I hadn’t watched it previously. I’m glad I did because it has helped bring some aspects of this discussion into sharper focus for me.
What is a creed?
One of the dictionary definitions is - any list of doctrines or beliefs. (I have some suggestions about that - more about which upon request.)
There is a sense, however, that a list of doctrines becomes a creed in yet another sense if or when that list is employed as a means of distinguishing between orthodoxy and heresy or when affirmation of the list is requisite for membership in an organization or when clergy are required to teach all of the doctrines on the list.
I cannot sufficiently bewail the condition of those Christians who have come to a full stop in their spiritual development and will go at present no farther than the instruments of their reformation. Most Lutherans cannot be drawn to go beyond what Luther saw;...and the Calvinists, you see, stick fast where they were left by that great man of God, who yet saw not all things. This is a misery much to be lamented; for though they were burning and shining lights in their time, yet they penetrated not into the whole council of God, but were they now living, would be as willing to embrace further light as that which they first received. (Unabashedly paraphrased from The Great Controversy page 292.)
If you search the Internet under “Five Fundamentals of the Christian Faith”, you are likely to find at least two lists of doctroines to which at least a third of professed Christians in the United States subscribe in the sense that they have been taught that anyone who doesn't subscribe to those lists is not “really” a Christian.
I can accept as a Christian (and invite to participate in the Lord’s supper) almost everyone who professes faith in Jesus. (The only exception that comes to mind is people who claim to be without sin.)
On the one hand, when the pioneers of the nineteenth century advent movement said (or wrote) that Seventh-day Adventists had no creed but the Bible, I think they meant that no list was to be taken as THE authoritative summary of Bible doctrines. (See 29:26 in this video.) On the other hand, the only way to state that there was entire unanimity among Seventh-day Adventists in the nineteenth century would have been to adopt the position that a person was not “really” a Seventh-day Adventist who didn’t believe exactly what the editors of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald listed as Seventh-day Adventist beliefs. To take such a position would not only have made the lists into creeds by the definition of distinguishing between biblical doctrines and heresies, it would have prevented spiritual progress in the same way that John Robinson decried in his farewell speech to the Mayflower pilgrims (as paraphrased above).
It is possible that both of my grandmothers could have been accurately described as “followers” of the Seventh-day Adventist organization or its “leaders” - past or present. My paternal grandmother died in the 1950s. After my maternal grandmother died in the 1960s, my mother - who was an active member of the SdA organization from my birth in 1944 to her death in the 1980s - confided to me that her religion was very different from that of her Seventh-day Adventist mother. Same denominational affiliation but different religion?
Yes. For two reasons. 1: Because my mother’s working definition of “religion” was similar to mine: the sum of those beliefs, practices and prohibitions that pertain to a person’s concept of the highest powers of the universe and 2: my mother’s religion was personal - not institutional.
Several of the most influential pioneers of the nineteenth century advent movement were clergy in the Christian Connexion - a denomination in which most or all of the clergy were anti-trinitarian. The reason for their disproportionate influence among adventists was that they were writers, editors or publishers. Some were all three!
In this video, we have some additional clues as to why the pioneers were anti-trinitarian.
At least twice in this video (I’ll find the specific references if you think it will help you to better understand my point here) pioneers are represented as thinking that the doctrine of the trinity is the teaching that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one person. Unitarians teach that but I’ve had in-depth discussions with several Methodists and Baptists on this and other subjects and I have yet to meet one who taught that Father, Son and Holy
Spirit are one person.
At 19:02 in this video, J. H. Waggoner is represented as teaching that the doctrine of the trinity is tritheistic (representing Father, Son and Holy Spirit as three gods).
At 28:44 in this video, the doctrine of the trinity is represented as teaching that God is three persons.
Is the goal of this video to confuse people as to what the doctrine of the trinity is? And if there were, among nineteenth century adventists, several different ways of understanding (or misunderstanding) the doctrine of the trinity, is it any wonder that they rejected whatever they thought it was?
Of the three ways the doctrine of the trinity is represented in this video, which comes closest to what you understand the doctrine of the trinity to be? Better yet, can you explain in your own words what you think the doctrine of the trinity is?
@@Lindstad777 Lord to mercy. Lots of apostasies in mainstream corporate SDA conference. My heart is saddened not to attend Sabbath meetings with them anymore, am praying many to come to a full understanding of John 17:3 even my local congregation that's so bitter and Trinitarian in kind. Terrible. We gotta have to watch and pray. The time is at hand, I believe for our Lord with many signs of the times, especially the image of the beast formation beloved brethrens and family for eternity. Maranatha
@@edmondclement4005 Hello brother Clement. I agree. I am also with you feeling saddened not to attend any Sabbath meetings with the SDA coporate churches. Yes, the image of the beast has been forming for many years. So many protestant ministries that has joined with the doctrines of the first beast of Revelation 13. Like you wrote, we got to watch and pray. I do believe that when the latter rain comes, we will see our true brothers and sisters and get together. May God strengthen your faith and patience. Maranatha.
ACCORDING TO THE CATHOLIC CHUCH: Seventh-day Adventists are the only consistent Protestant. All other churches (so called protestant churches) are RENEGADE CATHOLICS.
Just a question! Does the trinity doctrine the same as the doctrine of the Godhead? Both teaches trinity but in different meaning! So which one is true! The trinity doctrine or the Godhead doctrine which also means three?
The Pioneers did not have all truth , God continues to reveal truth to His church even today.
Finally, a channel that teaches biblical truth and the word of God, instead of doctrines of devils and the word of man. Edit. Who is a liar but he who denies the Father and the Son.
*‘Adventists beliefs have changed over the years under the impact of ‘present truth’. Most startling is the teaching regarding Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord … the Trinitarian understanding of God, now part of our fundamental beliefs, was not generally held by early Adventists’. (Adventist Review, Jan 6, 1994, page 10)*
Thank you for the historical sayings of the Pioneers. Thank you for your hard work in researching these truths. You have made it easy for me to share. Keep up the good work. I'm doing a study in the OT about 'comfort'. Happy Sabbath.
Good morning, there is a quote by Uriah Smith from the book Daniel y Apocalipsis of the year 1882 which I cannot find on the website, I would appreciate if you have the book in PDF of that year if you could send it to me since I have two, one published in 1904 and the other. another published 2022 and the appointment does not appear. Thanks for the support. Greetings...
And so how should we understand Hebrews chapter 1 "" and to the Son He said THY THRONE OH GOD is for ever and ever...
TEACHING OF THE BIBLE: There are three entity of God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. They exist all at a time.
"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” (Matt. 27:46, KJV).
The above verse explains of the existence of "the Father" and "the Son" in Heaven and on earth, respectively, at the same time.
"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: (John 15:26)
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" (John 14:16)
The above verses are explaining the three different entity at the same time. "The Father" and "the Holy Spirit" are in Heaven, while "the Son" is on this earth. John 14:16 says, "ANOTHER". That means, a "third" entity beside "the Father" and "the Son".
Grammatically, the Holy Spirit is specified as "he" (third person) and the Son is been specified as "I" and "me" (first person), and "the Father" have ben specified and the second person.
Luke 1:35 - "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".
--> Above verse that angel Gabriel spoke identifies three: (1) The Highest, the Father; (2) The Son of God, shall be born; and (3) The Holy Ghost.
They exist at the same time as different entity.
Thank you very much. I’d like to have this written, because I’m not so good in English and couldn’t understand all, it was a little to fast for me.. Thank you.
TH-cam can generate a transcript for you. Just click the three dots next to "share" and "save". Then select "open transcript".
What documents were the statements of belief published in the dates cited (1872, 1889, 1905, 1914)
The Fundamental Principles in the video were quoted from the 1914 Seventh-day Adventist Yearbook. Here is a PDF copy of it:
documents.adventistarchives.org/Yearbooks/YB1914.pdf
I very much appreciate this angle of teaching the true truth..PLS consider removing any form of music behind the great words we need so much to pay heed to!! PLS do not add music!!! any!! I do hope you understand.. it distracts the mind, it can be hypnotic, and Satan's deceitful ways are very subtle.. reply if you will.. Blessings
I agree and was about to commnet about that as well.
Agree.
So yes we believe that the father and the son are two seperate being,however this makes the point in truth of the Godhead being a trio,of three distinct persons Who are one in function and spirit the everlasting God😮
I was raised Adventist and the Seventh Day Adventists have become the very people they warned me about 50 years ago.
We’re to follow our truth belief . NOT in trinity that’s man made doctrine
Generally well done and clearly presented, but the incessant piano in the background, while lovely, kept my mind from concentrating on what was said. Please, can you make available the same presentation without the constant distracting and somewhat hypnotic background music? I really want to be able to think clearly about what I am hearing.
I really liked the music. I found the music helped me to focus. Maybe it is possible to mute the music (if one desires) without muting the dialog. Is that possible?
EGW: "There are three living persons of the heavenly trio". "The eternal three dignitaries God and Christ and the Holy Spirit " "The Holy Spirit is a divine person" Read this in Evangelism 616. Early pioneers were not in all agreement and issues had to be worked out. I trust only the Bible and SOP.
Evangelism book was written by Leroy froom who was a 33 degree free mason and worshiped Satan. I would never trust anything written by Leroy Fromm. He was a Freemason. He was buried in the mason section of the graveyard. There is only 1 God and Jesus Christ the begotten son of God. Holy Spirit is Jesus living inside of us
Leroy Fromm, who wrote evangelism and the coming comforter, was a 33 degree mason. He manipulated his way with corporate SDA to change the acceptance of the trinity away from what the founding fathers belief against the trinity. The trinity is Catholic. Leroy Fromm is buried in the Masonic gravesite. He in my opinion was a Jesuit transplant into the Church.
Amen
Prov. 24: 21-22 fear god and king jesus. Zac. 6:13 jesus will build the temple of his god. John 20: 17 iwill go to my god. Mat. 13: 11 marc. 4: 34. Jesus told his apostle exclusively about the secret in heaven ….. After jesus gone to heaven here are the preaching of his apostle at romans 8:34 jesus pleads for us to his father, 1st peter 2: 4 god choose jesus, 1 st john 2: 1 jesus faced his father for our sin. Thats the teaching of his apostles so where is trinity? Ill help you find it. It is in 1 st tim. 4:1; 1 st john 4 1 and rev… 16: 13 -16. There are three un clean spirit that comes out of the mouth of false propheth. The tninity doctrine. Some of our political leaders are uñawarely gathered of these teaching. It cause the figurative war of good vs. Evil teaching. The armageddon.a symbolical battlefeild where gods true people defeated gods enemies.
《AMAZINGLY POWERFULLY WRITTEN REVELATION FOR ME : >>>>>>> THANK YOU MY GOD LORD JESUS CHRIST THE LAMB OF GOD ALELLUJAH,!!!! THANK YOU MY LORD GOD MY BELOVED CREATOR AND SAVIOUR HOLY GHOST THE REPRESENTATIVE OF OUR MERCIFUL INTERCESSOR IN THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNIVERSE IN YOUR TEMPLE RIGHT BEFORE THE LORD GOD RIGHTEOUS JUDGE 》
GooD ONE 🙆🏻🤔😇🦁
God the Father and the Son are one. The same concept was made by God saying to man that shall leave his family and the woman also will leave her family and to become one. Two individuals coming together in harmony. The bearing witness on earth of the God the Father, God the Son and the Holly Ghost also shows the unit of the three. When God said let us create, it means there were more than one person. John 1:1 also confirms. I believe you left many other Pioneers views with the other important views supporting the core existence of the Trinity. The word TRINITY is just telling us that we have three working in one accord. Some times because of our sinful nature we might not understand that its possible for three working perfectly well even at the absence of two. Lets invite the comforter to guide us in truth as He pleads with us if we are lost and he was not created and his life is eternal.
This obsession with looking back to what the church pioneers believed on the structure of the Godhead makes some fundamental mistakes.
Firstly, it does not go back far enough to look at the churches and their beliefs that many of the pioneers came out of. The pioneers carried these ideas with them as they joined the Advent Movement. And not only on the doctrine of the Godhead, but on other Bible doctrines as well. Some of them held to some strange beliefs.
Secondly, people who look back to what the pioneers believed seem to have a subconscious thought that God handed "all truth" to them like a package, with nothing more to be learned or discovered. This is a BIG mistake. God revealed truth PROGRESSIVELY to those who joined the Advent Movement. This is obvious - initially the interpretation of Daniel 8:14 was 1843, then 1844, then after the disappointment they learned the true event to which the prophecy pointed, then they studied the sanctuary, then they discovered the Sabbath, later came health reform, etc etc. In this process they were not only learning truth but were also unlearning errors that they carried with them from the churches they had come out of.
This progressive revealing of truth by God to His church has not finished. Ellen White states clearly that more light is to come to God's people.
In looking back to the pioneers and holding to everything they taught as the foundation for our beliefs may ultimately put is in the same position as what happened to the other churches that came out of the Reformation - they got stuck on the new light they received and failed to keep advancing in further light and knowledge, so God had to go elsewhere to work with those who were open to be lead forward in the process of the revealing of truth to this world.
@@joro4474 Yes, God's word never changes but human interpretation certainly does.
Simply stated, the dispelling of the trinity divides the "Goats from the Sheep! Be it hell or heaven for me, my believe stands on the God who is the Father, and His First Son Jesus Christ!
The trinity is like a fly in the ointment! The ointment being Christ's gospel message.
Most Adventists try hard to keep the 10 Commandments, especially the fourth, But by believing the trinity dogma, they break the most important Commandment of all, The first!
@@4321grp Then, you have to say 'by believing the binitarian God, theory of new age anti-trinitariansm that you have embraced (two gods: one true God, and a second lesser god with a beginning somewhere in eternity!) is very clearly breaks the first one in Ex. 20, and the bible also says you break one , you break them all in James 2:10!!
Isn't this akin to the pot calling the kettle black?
@@4321grp Let's not mince words - Is Jesus to be worshipped or not?
@@themanlymansite, Does Jesus have a God whom he worships? Does Jesus have Someone whom he serves and obeys?When we worship Jesus, we honor his God also. Even kings were worshipped by Israel (1Chron.29:20) And David said to all the congregation, Now bless the LORD your God. And all the congregation blessed the LORD God of their fathers, and bowed down their heads, and worshipped the LORD, and the king. We can and should worship Jesus, but we should never put Jesus equal to, or above his God and our God. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. John (20:17)
@@4321grp Interesting. I'm concerned that you only want to win a debate rather than arrive at the truth. To arrive at the truth you need to weigh each statement or verse with other statements and verses on the same topic thereby getting the entire picture. Let's not cherry pick. You asked if Jesus has a God who He Worships and Obeys? The answer is clearly yes. This is because there was NO time where the Father was not the Father and there was no time where the son was NOT the son. Their relationship never came into being nor will it ever go out of being. If you are thinking hard, this should tell you something about the Son. Other questions you neglected to consider are Does God the Father call Jesus "God?" The answer is Yes - Hebrews 1:8. How about the Disciples. Did they recognize Jesus as God? Again, Yes according to John 20:28 as well as John 1:1. These points cannot be ignored.
Dealing with the 1Chronicles - are you really saying the people worshipped the King as we worship God? If so, you've completely misunderstood the scriptures. Your confusion will be cleared away if you read down a bit more. In vs.21 it says they made sacrifices to the LORD. Why not to the King also if they were worshipping the King? vs. 22 Clears it up by showing that Solomon was being coronated as King. So the answer is simply that God was being worshipped as God, and the King was being "worshipped" or praised as King. It is NOT saying the King was being worshipped as God. There is a distinction there that the reverent reader will notice. However, when Jesus was being worshipped by Thomas, it was as GOD as his words make clear.
Lastly, your statement "We can and should worship Jesus, but we should never put Jesus equal to, or above his God and our God." should be re-evaluated. Why would you worship Jesus if He is not God? Are you saying to worship someone other than God? Are we worshipping him as a really nice created being?
Also, the scriptures clearly state that Jesus IS equal with God, but humbled himself and took the form of a servant. Phil2:5,6 says "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" Hebrews also brings the point home in Hebrews 1:3,4.
Question for you - What name did Jesus inherit being so much greater than the angels according to Hebrews 1:4?
Why did you leave the words of Ellen G White on this? She seemed to have taught what we believe today...
Hello Abraham,
The video focused the pioneers in particular. We have other resources that deal with the Spirit of Prophecy and demonstrate that all were in one accord.
Blessings.
@@Seventh-dayChurchofRevelation
She said things that said that she believed in three heavenly dignitaries, and that the Holy Spirit is as much a person as God is a person.
Blessings.
@@gabrielhaack2263 where did she say that? I’m curious to know so I can show my SDA BROTHERS
@@XxAlex530xX Start from the book Evangelism on page 613.2
look up the sources as well for where they get it.
God bless.
It is interesting though that she describes the Father and the Son having their own personalities, and then describes the Holy Spirit as also having a personality in other places.
I only watched the first 13 minutes, but the proof texts are weak and they are expressing the opinions of men. It's not unusual for the times they were in. You had an odd conglomeration of believers with doctrines all over the place coming together and starting to gel together. I can't get past a few things: 1) John 1:1-4 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men." Jesus was the Word and was God. 2) Genesis 1 In the beginning God (Elohim) made the heavens and the earth. the im at the end of that name is plural. A cherub means one angel, cherubim are many angels. 3) Genesis again "Let Us make Man in Our image". Who was God talking to? 4) Jesus declares Himself to be the IAM in John 8:58, God speaking to Moses on Mt Sinai. I can't see beyond these. I am really ok with not fully understanding the nature of God. As far as the theory that the Trinity is a creation of the Catholic Church, you need to be careful with that line of thinking. Not EVERYTHING they said is false #1. Satan mingles truth with lies to make things more believable, and #2 the Bible we read today is largely filtered down and handed to us from them, something to think about.
could you give me the date and title of the quote in the Review and Herald 1994
William Johnsson, "Present Truth: Walking in God’s Light", Adventist Review, January 6, 1994, p. 10
That should be the full reference.
Blessings
I came from a Southern Baptist Church and learned of the Adventist Church in 1998 and now after watching this video I realize the only bad thing about this Trinity doctrine that were that's coming around the corner that gives Satan his doorway to impersonate Christ that's the only reason that he would bring this doctrine in that is what's going to give him the lead way to even for the very least which would be us not me. I'm sticking to what the Bible says and what our founders said of all the study that they have done
I almost became a 7th day adventist but their beleif in the trinity is what prevented it
IF they can publicly apologize for teaching a false doctrine and go back to unitarianism ill gladly join
Why was not Mrs. Whites quotations also included with her husbands? Our human language systems are faulty and born in sin. The Reality exists without words, but the bible says in different places such as in Daniel 12:10 "the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand".. and in proverbs 28:5 "Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things." So we know that that which the Lord wants us to know we may know. If this is something the Lord wants us to know we may know. I think compartmentalizing things this way is easy to divide. Do we not believe that Jesus is God? or that the Holy Spirit is not God's Spirit? If we do then we agree? You don't believe Jesus is God? "how long have I been with you? and has thou not known me?"...Thomas says "My Lord and my God"...At Christ's baptism were they all three not present? Christ is the focus of the three I think is obvious. The Father created all things Through and has committed all judgement To Him, and the Holy Spirit only reveals what the Son has shown Him, which we just stated was Given Him from the Father. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself"..? Trinity is just a human word that does not appear in the bible but the Reality which transcends human language is there and can be experienced outside of human communications.
What was truly the reason for changing this fundamental belief? Was it necessary to do it? This was like changing the roots and foundation of the Church, why? It appears the devil is infiltrating the SDA Church and the true believers mist stand firm. It may have been the beginning but may not be the end of such heretic actions.
The reason for the change was; the church was getting branded by other ecumenical movements as being a cult. So in mutual agreement, the leaders of the SDA church and other churches leaders decided that, if the SDA’s began teaching the Trinity, the other churches would stop saying they were a cult and would even remove all past articles speaking the same sentiments.
The idea came into the church in 1919-1920. Became widespread in our writings in 1950 because of Leroy Froom and his re-editing of pioneers writings. In 1980 it was officially accepted as a creed and put into the fundamental beliefs... the Omega of apostasy spoken of by EGW.
Please see my reply to Shauvaro Patrick.
Thank the Jesuit Froom for his pagan trinity in Adventist Catholic theology
you seems to be so informed. If you know the real difference between the Catholic counterfeit Trinity and the Adventist doctrine of the biblical Godhead/the Trinity, you will also know the modern anti-trinitarians offshoots teach the same exact Catholic counterfeit trinity while falsely accusing the SDA church. This is one of the last day delusions!
Can someone repost this without the music in the background...my brain can't concentrate on what he's saying
So what law on the statute books is in 'direct connection' to the Sunday rest bill? The law that anyone who publicly denies the trinity will be persecuted. And we know that according to Rome, Sunday is directly connected to their trinity god ... "every Sunday is devoted to the honor of the Most Holy Trinity, that every Sunday is sanctified and consecrated to the triune God." (source) ... "Question 1092. What is Sunday, or the Lord's Day in general? A. It is a day dedicated by the Apostles to the honour of the most holy Trinity." (The Douay Catechism of 1649)
"It will also be noticed that this 'league' [The International Sunday Observance League] has other plans besides the intention to prosecute those who will not bow to their man-made Sabbath. Perhaps they will prosecute those who do not believe in the Trinity. Their, spiritual ancestors, the Puritans, considered the arrest and punishment of those who rejected this church dogma as something pleasing to the Deity ... The doctrine of the Trinity and the sacredness of Sunday are both orthodox plums of marvelous sweetness to the ministerial tooth." (Review and Herald, Nov.20, 1894, Vol.71, No.46, p.730 - SOURCE)
And what are all the churches uniting on today? THE TRINITY! Take a look at our ECUMENICAL GOD OF ROME page for more information on that. So Rome is uniting all the churches on it's Trinity god ready for the mark to be enforced!
I have went back and forth on this subject, struggling to make sense of it. I read what the pioneers say and it makes sense. I read what trinitarians say and it makes sense. I read what oneness Pentecostals say about the godhead and it makes sense. I can only confidently dismiss the JW view that Jesus is the first created being and the Mormon which is absolutely repulsive. I have landed on the side of trinitarianism for now for two reasons, I believe that in Genesis 1:26 God said “let US make man in OUR image” the oneness position is refuted as this clearly shows God as in at least two persons interacting. I also believe that our pioneers view sustains a huge blow when you consider that if Christ isn’t the eternal God; but only the SON of the eternal God, then you no longer have God sacrificing HIMSELF on behalf of fallen humanity, but rather you have CHILD SACRIFICE. Jeremiah 19:5 God says child sacrifice is so repulsive that it never entered His mind!
Interesting topic. However I don’t believe it is a salvational issue. Correct theology doesn’t save you; Jesus saves you and Jesus is merciful and gracious. Jesus is not in the business of saving smart people who have perfect understandings of everything. He saves repentant sinners. Do you believe there is ONE GOD? Do you believe in THE FATHER? Do you believe in THE SON? Do you believe in the HOLY SPIRIT? Do you believe that you are a wretched sinner in need of the atoning blood of Jesus? Have you excepted the blood of Jesus on your behalf and started your walk towards sanctification? If yes, then you are saved. Regardless of how you conceptualize the three parts or persons of the Godhead, who or what they are and how they function. Regardless of any of that, if you have repented, been baptized and are now walking in newness of life, your eternal salvation is secure. Believe it! Theology can enrich your Christian experience, but there is no saving function in it. Jesus Himself told us “You search the scriptures, for in THEM you think you have eternal life, and these are they which testify of ME” John 5:9
If all those views make sense then your in grave danger of accepting a false Jesus brother because Jesus cant be molded into any philosophical teaching. Jesus lived to vindicate the Father as a true just God. When we genuinely accept Christ and search the scriptures that testifies of him we automatically can state we've obtained eternal life by knowing The One True God and Jesus our Lord and saviour. The Bible always points back to Jesus and Jesus always points back to the Father and that's the monotheistic theme of the scriptures. Jesus alone saves because he's the only way to The Father, but we have to recall that many will be shouting Jesus and will not be recognized [Matt 7:21-23.] "Only by knowing God here can we prepare to meet him at his coming. "This is life eternal," said Christ, "that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent." But many of those who profess to believe in Christ do not know God. They have only a surface religion. They do not love God; they do not study his character; therefore they do not know how to trust, how to look and live." RH July 20, 1897, par. 8
@@freddyrodriguez2435 I understand where you are coming from. And I may have come across as more wishy washy than I really am. I wasn’t saying that all those views make EQUAL sense. I was just saying that when I look into all the different views, I see their points and I see how they arrive at their conclusions. And I definitely see how people buy into believing them especially when that’s what they hear preached to them week after week. However, I have come to a pretty solid belief in the Adventist version of the trinity. I have really studied this issue from many different theological lenses and I believe it is the only one that stands up both scripturally and philosophically. However, I think that anybody who says that the having a perfect understanding of the ontology of God in order to be saved is WAY over stating their case. Yes, to know God is life eternal. But I think it is very clear that both scripture and Mrs. White mean to know God’s character and not his nature. The nature of God is something I don’t think we will ever perfectly know or understand even throughout eternity. How could we?
And Matt 7 is not talking about those who claim to know the ontology of God and Jesus turning to them and saying I never knew you. In context it is speaking specifically about people claiming to be entitled to salvation because of their GOOD WORKS.
@@blueticks8423 John 5:39 and the life Jesus lived to represent. The theme of the Bible and the 1st fundamental principle of the 1872 Fundamental Principles. God is a Personal Spiritual Being. We are assured through inspiration because sister White let us know the 1872 FP were inspired by God's spirit.
@@freddyrodriguez2435 Amen and indeed it was. That doesn’t mean it was perfectly theologically sound. In Acts 2, Peter is the showcased preacher on the day of Pentecost. It wasn’t until much later he had the vision with the unclean animals and realized that the Gospel was for the gentiles as well. Matthew 27:9 says that it was Jeremiah that prophesied that Jesus would be sold for 30 pieces of silver, but in fact it was Zechariah. But, in spite of all of this, these men were inspired. I say this, not to diminish our faith in the reliability of the scriptures or the prophetic gift of EGW. We just need to be ok with our theology evolving as we dig deeper into the word. And we must also be ok with the theology of our beloved Prophetess evolving as she gained in years and wisdom. Reading her writings it is very clear that from the 1890’s onward to the end of her life, Mrs. White was decidedly Trinitarian. She even coined the phrase “Heavenly Trio.”
If you are interested, check out the book “The Hevaenly Trio” by Ty Gibson. It’s a brilliant book and well studied on the subject of the views of most of our pioneers contrasted with those of Ellen White and our modern stance on this subject. Great read! It cleared the air for me on this issue that is beginning to divide our church in a very unhealthy and unfortunate way. The divisiveness of it is dangerous to our church and therefore to our mission as a church. We are called to uplift Christ and the Three Angels Messages before the people. Not get to sidetracked on these side issues and fighting amongst ourselves. A house divided against itself cannot stand.
THE SECOND COMMANDMENT, THE TRINITY AND THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD
I always wondered what was so significant about the second Commandment that Rome found it necessary to remove it altogether from the Ten Commandments. But it appears that there is a fundamental truth in that Commandment concerning where God's presence is that is intended to protect us from all forms of false worship.
The second Commandment tells us that we should not bow down before any image. This implies that God is not in any image. Which means that God is not everywhere. The Bible tells us that God is in heaven; and heaven is not everywhere. Heaven is above the earth and that is where we should direct our worship to God, where He is. He knows everything that happens everywhere and can go wherever He pleases but His abode is in heaven where Jesus, our High Priest and intercessor, is presenting our cases to Him. - "Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens" (Heb. 8:1).
Furthermore, both the prophets Daniel and John saw God in heaven with the angels gathered around His throne and Jesus being separate and distinct (Dan. 7 and Rev. 4, 5). Daniel said "the Ancient of days did sit" (Dan. 7:9) and "one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days" (Dan. 7:13). John said "one sat on the throne" (Rev. 4:2) who was worshipped as the Creator to whom it was said "Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created" (Rev. 4:11), with Jesus appearing before Him to receive a book and power and authority, as the Lamb who was slain, while the angels sang, "Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever." (Rev. 5:13).
God is not everywhere all at once like a vapour while part of Him or an image sits on the throne representing Him. God Himself sits, of whom man was made in His image after His likeness, "made after the similitude of God" (James 3:9).
Logically, if God is everywhere, He can be worshipped wherever He is. One could then bow down and worship before a stone, a tree, a person or any object, not as worshipping the object but as worshipping God, since God is in it. That would open the door for the worship of false Gods as no one would be able to tell the difference whether you are worshipping the true God or not.
It would not be consistent to forbid worshipping before an object if God is in the object and one is worshipping, not the object, but God who is in the object. This is evident in the experience of the children of Israel in the wilderness. God appeared to them in a cloud and they were not forbidden to bow before Him in the cloud - "And the LORD said unto Moses, Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud" (Ex. 19:9), "And all the people saw the cloudy pillar stand at the tabernacle door: and all the people rose up and worshipped, every man in his tent door" (Ex. 33:10). If God is not in a particular place, say in an image, it means that there is at least one place where He is not. He cannot be everywhere and not everywhere at the same time.
The idea that the Holy Spirit is God present everywhere was precisely the argument that Dr. John Harvey Kellogg put forward to justify his pantheistic teachings. And Ellen White told him that he was wrong. Initially, he said that God was in everything. And when God instructed Ellen White to oppose it, he modified it by saying that at the time of his first presentation of the matter in the book "The Living Temple" he did not believe in the Trinity. Because of that, he said he had not given a clear explanation of the matter. He went on to explain that he had now come to believe in the Trinity and could better explain his idea. The new explanation was that it was not God the Father, but God the Holy Ghost who was everywhere and in everything. Ellen White told him that he was wrong. And we can see why. If God the Holy Spirit is everywhere and can be worshipped, it is a doorway to replace worshipping God and Christ in heaven entirely.
Another modified version of Kellogg's idea is that the Holy Spirit is really Christ himself or both God and Christ in an omnipresent form. This is also not correct as it places God and Christ on earth rather than in heaven.
The pioneers of Seventh-day Adventism stated in their Fundamental Principles of faith published in the 1889 Yearbook that God was everywhere present by His representative, the Holy Spirit. At face value, this would suggest that this representative is omnipresent. But it is perhaps more consistent with scripture to say that He is everywhere present by His representatives the holy spirits. Holy spirits are ministering spirits sent from heaven - "And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (John1:51). "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" (Heb. 1:14).
This is consistent with the Hebrew word ruach and the Greek word pneuma that are translated in the Bible as spirit. These words are also translated spirits, thus indicating that the Holy Spirit need not be seen as one individual being who is omnipresent but many spirit beings representing God everywhere.
From this perspective, there is no denying that the Comforter, the Holy Spirit, sent at Pentecost is a person - only not a God-being to be worshipped. Like the Angel of Revelation 18 who comes down from heaven with the latter rain - a similar occurrence as that which took place at Pentecost except more extensive - the Comforter would be seen as a messenger sent by Christ from heaven, as stated repeatedly in John 14-16. Ellen G. White describing the latter rain speaks of a mighty angel from heaven being sent to do this work and further said, "Angels were sent to aid the mighty angel from heaven" (Ellen. G. White, Story of Redemption, p. 399).
It should be noted that Jesus's warning against blaspheming against the Holy Spirit is not implying that the Holy Spirit is more to be revered than Jesus Himself. Jesus went back to heaven and promises to return to this earth to take us to His Father's house in heaven. He left the Holy Spirit to guide us until He returns. If we reject that guidance by blasheming against the the Holy Spirit, there will be nobody to guide us. The situation is similar to what God told the children of Israel in the wilderness - "Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared. Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him." (Ex. 23:20, 21). It is simply warning us not to reject the Holy Spirit's guidance. It is not forbidding us seeking to understand who the Holy Spirit is or what the Holy Spirit does.
So, there we have it. The church has now fully accepted Kellogg's idea. Ellen White said that the initial presentation by Kellogg was the alpha of deadly heresies. She said that the omega would follow shortly afterwards and would be accepted. And it did follow shortly afterwards in Kellogg's modified version, based on his acceptance of the Trinity. And the church has now fully accepted it - that God (the Holy Spirit) is everywhere and should be worshipped. So, based on current practice, Jesus is worshipped, the Holy Spirit is worshipped but the One true God is almost entirely ignored. Jesus, praying to His Father, made it clear who the "only true God" is and identified Himself as the one sent by God - "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3).
Nowhere in the Bible is worship given to anyone else except the one seated on the throne who is referred to as "LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come" (Rev.4:8) and to the Christ, the Lamb, as it will be in the new earth - "And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev. 21:22). God is the Father of Christ. Accordingly, Christ, the Lamb is seen with "an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads" (Rev. 14:1). It is the name of the Lamb's Father that will be written in their foreheads.
Whatever one's concept of the Godhead, the term "godhead" is used only three times in the Bible (Acts 17:29, Rom. 1:20 and Col. 2:9) and in none of these places is the expression used to replace the idea of God being a single individual who has a Divine Son who is worshipped alongside Himself. And not even once does the term "godhead" in scripture allude to the worship of anyone else.
All worship should be directed to God and Christ in heaven. It is not about where we are when we worship but, like sending a petition to the king of England, we do not send it to Spain or Australia but to him in England where he is. Similarly, Jesus in teaching us how to pray directed that we say, "Our Father which art in heaven".
We should not be praying to nor worshipping anything on earth. We should pray to God in heaven, approaching His throne through Christ, our Mediator, and we should direct our worship to heaven where God is. This is the substance of the second Commandment that Rome has removed.
@@Armor-mi3nk Were Ellen White and Kellogg saying the same thing? On the surface, it appears that Ellen and Kellogg were saying the same thing. Ellen herself, in responding to Kellogg's assertion that he was only saying the same things that Ellen had said, admitted that there were things in her writings that interpreted according to the mind of the writer of "The Living Temple" (Kellogg) would give the impression that they were saying the same thing but that it was not the case. She could not explain it, but she knew what God had revealed to her - that Kellogg was wrong. Now, we must decide whether we are accepting what was directly revealed to the prophet or whether we are going by the prophet's own limited attempts to explain it. Even Daniel did not understand some of the things that were revealed to him. But he faithfully recorded it and left it for us, since Gabriel told him to shut it up because it would not be understood till the time of the end. The truth concerning God, Christ and Lucifer (who was next in honour to Christ) was clearly revealed to Ellen, in vision, more than once. She was also shown that Kellogg's idea that God was everywhere and in everything was wrong and was the alpha of deadly heresies. We must decide whether we will accept these direct revelations or not. James White, who had a greater capacity to explain scripture than Ellen, explained that God was present everywhere by His omniscience and by His capacity to exercise His power everywhere, but not everywhere in person. I believe the matter is clear enough - "If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.” (Numbers 12:6). We should pay attention to the things that were revealed directly to Ellen, and not look to her as an infallible expositor of scripture. We should study the scriptures for ourselves and use our God-given capabilities to put the pieces together along with what has been directly revealed to get a clear sense of truth.
Good work. I like it
The Spirit of Prophecy dilemma.
1. Ellen White had the spirit of prophecy since 1844 (27 Beliefs-page 224)
2. The Spirit of Prophecy protects the church from doctrinal error (27 Beliefs-page 219)
3. It is a theological error to have anti-trinitarian beliefs
4. Ellen White as the Spirit of Prophecy permitted anti-trinitarian beliefs from 1844 to 1895 (Desire of the Ages published in 1895; the alleged Trinitarian book)
5. The Spirit of Prophecy failed to protect the church from doctrinal error; antitrinitarian belief from 1844 to 1895. (27 Beliefs-page 219)
How can Ellen White have the Spirit of Prophecy and not fulfill the role of defending against doctrinal error?
Desire of Ages alleged Trinitarian book? Lol dude there's so much Trinitarian statements in that book.
"From the DAYS OF ETERNITY the Lord Jesus Christ was ONE with the Father, He (Jesus) was the image of God, the image of His (The Father's) greatness and majesty, the outshining of His glory" (Desire of Ages pg 19 chapter "God with us")
"Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the THIRD PERSON OF THE GODHEAD" (Desire of Ages pg 671)
@@mrsir8094 Thank yoiu for the oh! so typical Adventist reply which is ignore the main thrust of the post and focus on a lesser point. Well done! So, did EGW protect the Adventists from error as she slept with a rabid anti-trinitarian (James White) every night?
Hmmm I will continue to study but there are two things that jumped out of me 1. None of the context in which the quotes was mentioned, therefore quotes can be misrepresented such as the J.N Andrews his quotes were cherry-picked from different times 2. You say Ellen white held these By association but you did not once quote her. And its worth nothing that some pioneers were pantheistic I dont here the cry to return to nature worship just because the pioneers thought it, My theology faith will be on the word of God not Waggoner, Smith or Andrews
I was need to understand doctrine since people always discussion about
Study the bible...cos the bible and bible alone..
Christ is called also "everlasting Father" in Isaiah. There are statements indicating that there was not a time that Christ was not with the Father. John 1 "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." One of the characteristics of God is eternity. There are no higher God[s] and lesser [Gods]. Subordination is biblical because in eternity the meeting between them was to decide: Who offer Grace? Who dies a Substitutionary death for the frail humans? Who stays behind when Christ ascends to heaven to take care of them not bound by immediate borders of space and time. Thus, Christ said: I will not eat with you again until we eat in Heaven [after the Advent]. If the Spirit as Smith was trying to say, was just Christ's spirit or the Father's spirit, then this "clone" being is Himself and thus He could not have said that He is not on earth when He is in heaven. Does the logic set in?
He said that He will send another Comforter, thus He is a Comforter Himself but on His way, but another Comforter, carefully distinguished from Himself to be on earth while He is in Heaven.
Yet, the Holy Spirit acted as agent for Christ just as Christ acted as agent for the Father. This was what they decided before the function divisions had a beginning, was "born" was "sent" was starting to act out their parts in this great plan of salvation.
They act all on behalf of each other. They share equally the same passions, compassions, goals. Thus, what these few blessed fathers of our pioneers misunderstood with their Unitarian baggage from the churches they came from, is that Subordination is just a salvivic beginning-point until eternity reached. Christ wanted to stay human though and will, glorified bodily human.
It is a compassionate choice and not that He was a glorified good man, glorified by the Father.
Therefore these remarks by James White in 1846, note the date and Uriah Smith 1890 was not correct. It was the marginal comments of some scholars and even the husband of Ellen White.
It surprise me that James White missed the eternal aspect of Christ in scripture and also Uriah Smith in 1890. Ellen White definitely pointed to the eternal aspect of Christ. She mentioned the heavenly trio also a number of times. Denis Kaiser brought out a Dictionary of the Trinity at Andrews University with all the documents provided there. Might look at it for the alternative view. Thanks.
“THE ONENESS OF GOD”
GOD IS ONE = ONE SPIRIT - AND - NOT AN UNION OF 3 GODS.
THE ONENESS OF GOD IS NOT AN UNITY OF 2-3 OR MORE. IF YOU DO NOT DISCERN THIS TRUTH THEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.
MARK 3 - 25 - AND IF A HOUSE BE DIVIDED AGAINST ITSELF, THAT HOUSE CANNOT STAND.
THE ONENESS OF GOD = GOD OUR CREATOR = SAVIOUR = THE LION OF JUDAH = THE LAMB OF GOD = THE LAMB THAT WAS SLAIN = THE ROCK = AND HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED = WONDERFUL = COUNSELLOR = THE MIGHTY GOD= THE EVERLASTING FATHER = THE PRINCE OF PEACE THE LION OF JUDAH THE EMANUEL = GOD WITH US THE KING OF KINGS THE LORD OF LORDS. I COULD GO ON BUT ALL THESAE ARE IN THE ONENESS OF GOD.
HAVE YOU DISCERNED THE ONENESS OF GOD YET; OR DO YOU HAVE TO INTELLECTUALISE THE ONENESS OF GOD INTO A TRINITY IDOL.
GOD IS ONE SPIRIT.
MARK 12:29-32
ZECHARIAH 14:9
AND THE LORD WILL BE KING OVER ALL THE EARTH. ON THAT DAY THE LORD WILL BE ONE AND HIS NAME ONE.
JESUS ANSWERED, “THE MOST IMPORTANT IS, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL:
THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
JOHN 17:21-23
THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME…
JOHN 10:30
I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”
JOHN 14:20
IN THAT DAY YOU WILL KNOW THAT I AM IN MY FATHER, AND YOU IN ME, AND I IN YOU.
JAMES 2:19
YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD IS ONE; YOU DO WELL. EVEN THE DEMONS BELIEVE-AND SHUDDER!
ROMANS 8:1
THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST JESUS.
JUDE 1:4
FOR CERTAIN PEOPLE HAVE CREPT IN UNNOTICED WHO LONG AGO WERE DESIGNATED FOR THIS CONDEMNATION, UN-GODLY PEOPLE, WHO PERVERT THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO SENSUALITY AND DENY OUR ONLY MASTER AND LORD, JESUS CHRIST.
THE MAJORITY OF THE INTELLECTUAL ELITIST WOULD OR COULD NOT ACCEPT THE SIMPLICITY OF THE ONENESS OF GOD AND THE HUMILITY OF JESUS AND THE SIMPLICITY OF HIS TEACHINGS AS GOD, THEREFORE THEY INVENTED THE TRINITY OR RATHER - REINVENTED A PAGAN TRINITY BY ADOPTING THE PAGAN TRINITY A GOD OF 3 IN ONE, HENCE THE ONENESS OF GOD WAS CONTAMINATED IN AN INSTANT BY THE VANITY OF THE INTELLECTUAL ELITE. YES IN AN INSTANT THEY HAD CREATED A GOD IN THEIR OWN IMAGE. HOWEVER THEIR TRINITIES WERE EXPOSED AS A FORGERIES BY ISAAC NEWTON, EUSEBIUS AND MANY OTHER RESEARCHERS OF THE WORD OF GOD.
MATTHEW 23 24 YE BLIND GUIDES, WHO STRAIN OUT A GNAT AND SWALLOW A CAMEL!
[YES! SWALLOWED THE TRINITY; HOOK, LINE, AND SINKER - HOW SAD]
ISAIAH 43:10
“YOU ARE MY WITNESSES,” DECLARES THE LORD, “AND MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN, THAT YOU MAY KNOW AND BELIEVE ME AND UNDERSTAND THAT I AM HE. BEFORE ME NO GOD WAS FORMED, NOR THERE BE ANY AFTER ME.
GALATIANS 3:20
NOW AN INTERMEDIARY IMPLIES MORE THAN ONE, BUT GOD IS ONE.
MARK 12:29
JESUS ANSWERED, “THE MOST IMPORTANT IS, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL: THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
1 TIMOTHY 2:5
FOR THERE IS ONE GOD, AND THERE IS ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, THE MAN CHRIST JESUS,
ISAIAH 45:21-22
DECLARE AND PRESENT YOUR CASE; LET THEM TAKE COUNSEL TOGETHER! WHO TOLD THIS LONG AGO? WHO DECLARED IT OF OLD? WAS IT NOT I, THE LORD? AND THERE IS NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME, A RIGHTEOUS GOD AND A SAVIOUR; THERE IS NONE BESIDES ME. “TURN TO ME AND BE SAVED, ALL THE ENDS OF THE EARTH! FOR I AM GOD, AND THERE IS NO OTHER.
ISAIAH 44:8
FEAR NOT, NOR BE AFRAID; HAVE I NOT TOLD YOU FROM OF OLD AND DECLARED IT? AND YOU ARE MY WITNESSES! IS THERE A GOD BESIDES ME? THERE IS NO ROCK; I KNOW NOT ANY.”
EPHESIANS 4:5-6
ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM, ONE GOD AND FATHER OF ALL, WHO IS OVER ALL AND THROUGH ALL AND IN ALL.
ISAIAH 44:6
THUS SAYS THE LORD, THE KING OF ISRAEL AND HIS REDEEMER, THE LORD OF HOSTS: “I AM THE FIRST AND I AM THE LAST; BESIDES ME THERE IS NO GOD.
1 CORINTHIANS 8:6
YET FOR US THERE IS ONE GOD, THE FATHER, FROM WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND FOR WHOM WE EXIST, AND ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, THROUGH WHOM ARE ALL THINGS AND THROUGH WHOM WE EXIST.
1 CORINTHIANS 8:4
THEREFORE, AS TO THE EATING OF FOOD OFFERED TO IDOLS, WE KNOW THAT “AN IDOL HAS NO REAL EXISTENCE,” AND THAT “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE.”
1 CORINTHIANS 12:13
FOR BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTISED INTO ONE BODY, WHETHER WE BE JEWS OR GENTILES, WHETHER WE BE BOND OR FREE; AND HAVE BEEN ALL MADE TO DRINK INTO ONE SPIRIT.
JOHN 17:21-23
THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAST SENT ME…
GOD BLESS YOU - ALL WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS ARE IN ONE SPIRIT FOR GOD IS ONE.
IF YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS OR DOUBT DON'T HESITATE TO ASK ME.
BETTER STILL PRAY TO THE LORD AND THE HOLY SPIRIT THE BREATHE OF GOD WILL ANSWER YOU.
JOHN 20
22 AND WITH THAT HE BREATHED ON THEM AND SAID, “RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT.
JOB 32:8
BUT IT IS THE SPIRIT IN MAN, THE BREATH OF THE ALMIGHTY THAT MAKES HIM UNDERSTAND.
TIS THE ELITIST THAT GAVE US A FALSE TIRNITY - AND WILL SOON GIVE US A ONE WORLD RELIGION THROUGH A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT WITH POLITICAL CORRECTNESS A NEW TORAH AS ITS FRONT AND POSSIBLY THE TRINITY EMBLEM AS A THREE IN ONE IDOL ON THEIR FLAG OR BANNER.
THIS WILL SEEMINGLY UNITE ALL OTHER PAGAN TRINITIES OF THE WORLD TO CHALLENGE THE AUTHORITY OF THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LAMB OF GOD - THAT WAS SLAIN.
THE INVOCATIONS OF THE TRINITY MIGHT WELL BE USED AGAINST TRUE BELIEVERS IN THE NAME OF JESUS AND THE 2 WITNESSES WHEN ELIJAH HAS COURAGEOUSLY EXPOSED THE TRINITY AS SATANIC.
BUT; EVERY TRINITY IS THE SAME AND IS SATAN FEIGNED AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. BY SLEIGHT OF HAND SATAN HAS HOODWINKED THE MAJORITY OF BELIEVERS AND BY NOW THEY WORSHIP SATAN THE DRAGON - BY DEFAULT.
GOD BLESS YOU AND THE PEACE OF JESUS -YESHUA THE PRINCE OF PEACE BE WITH YOU ALWAYS.
Thank God secular law & order finally stopped the witch killings.
I can only imagine if a deity desired my awareness of it, I would probably be aware & if not, then why call deity other than fiction?
Christians embarrass & insult us with this barrage of nonsense, retreating into caves like this channel to refuel.
Dear Christian Uploader, My god, have you any sense of decency?
If everyone is not aware of "the" deity, then it fudges the title a bit, don't you think?
You encourage people to travel as if best done with one foot in fantasyland.
Theologians grant each other doctorates based on nothing whatsoever.
Christians are fascists, rendering to Caesar what is his, exercising freedom of speech with abuse.
The naked ape is a vain species, Christians want to own the narrative, claiming knowledge of a supreme being, which is never verified beyond a tool of fiction.
Christians insult intelligence in public, suggesting we travel with a map of fantasyland, walk with one foot in reality & one foot in literary fiction & state propaganda.
Christians authorize themselves to weigh-in on whatnot as if Earth had gravity-free zones, & everyone knows it.
Christian invocations call into existence evil as good; they are wolves in sheep's clothing.
We inherit their vast bulk of our oldest documents, the records of looting & torture: inquisitions.
Christians are hypocrites with productions like this, making a scene of praying in the temple.
Christians are the lowlifes in society, avoided like the insane pretending to talk to an invisible friend, holding a hairdryer in place of a phone.
Christian manufacture ultimate vanity, proclaiming we are all gods, children of the highest god.
Democracy is a cult-like faith where many actually believe giving power to others always has consequence which can be tolerably managed by the managers.
The models for Limits to Growth of 1973 were accurate.
The state has no plans, so the only difference between a Republican & a Democrat is how fast the knee hits the floor when a donor walks in the room & SCOTUS produces stench.
BEGINNING OF DAYS?
The WORD is the High Priest Melechisedec King of peace. "Without FATHER, without mother, without decent, having "NEITHER BEGINING OF DAYS" nor end of life; but made unto the SON of GOD, abideth a priest contiually". Heb. 7:3.
I guess the great SDA scholar failed to memorize this verse which verifies JESUS having no begining of day. HE was made Flesh but before HE was eual with GOD Phip. 2:5-8.
Born in Bethlehem "FROMOF OLD FROM EVERLASTING. Micah 5:2.
Here is something interesting I learned about these select individual who didn't believe in trinity
Andrews died of tuberculosis
James white suffered paralytic stroke
Joseph bates died due to extreme diet and rebuked by ellen white for this practice
Here the interesting kick
Ellen white died naturally
Interesting. Like that. Short but sum it all.
Elisha the prophet died because of sickness, Paul was beheaded, disciples were killed in many different ways , Jesus was hanged were they out of doctrine
4:12 Disappointing you would give a false quote that Andrews supposedly penned. Perhaps you are just repeating something you’ve heard in the past and trusted that it was true?
Oh this gets even more interesting
Both Waggoners died of a stroke
And uriah smith died of stroke
Makes you wonder if these in particular leaders were in apostasy
The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden. AA 52.1
This is total misrepresentation of the truth. I feel really sorry for all those who praise this false teacher!
The prophet writes; "The Word of God is the great detector of error; to it we believe everything must be brought. The Bible must be our standard for every doctrine and preaching. We must study it reverentially. We are to receive no one's opinion without comparing it with the Scriptures. Here is divine authority which is supreme in matters of faith. It is the Word of the living God that is to decide all controversies" (The Ellen G. White 1888 Materials, pp. 44, 45; cf. The Great Controversy, p. 595).
Anti-trinitarians use the Spirit of Prophecy only to get influence, but do they really believe the SOP? Obviously not. When they find their teachings contradict with Bible and SOP, then, they have a most convenient answers for it!
You will also find out the anti-trinitarians believe in polytheism! Before you fall into this deception, please search the real truth!
It's however awesome to leave the SDA Church. Can't there be a compromise? Can't the Church return to its roots?
Please see my reply to Shauvaro Patrick.
SDA church is nowadays kicking out of synagogue people! My husbands turn is officially next sabbath. This is percecution! Third gen. adventist I left the church voluntarily a couple of years ago. This is Finland... SDA is in skism!
Well, the Bible itself disagrees with Andrews' second quote. Jesus had no beginning. Nothing was made that was not made by Jesus, says so in the KJV. Take the divinity away from Jesus and God only gave a created being to die for me. That's not selfless love.
Jesus is God in the flesh, the Bible says this too.
So, Andrews is wrong.
An excellent documentary further supporting what all Christians are convinced of. That the gospels were early eyewitness accounts... and the fall of Jerusalem was accurately predicted by our Lord in the synoptic gospels. But the heading of this topic is most misleading. Proof that JESUS IS GOD? What in these findings even suggests what Jesus never claimed?
Jesus' personal claim is found at John 10:36. I am God's Son"
What IS very interesting is the early reading of 1Timothy 3:16. It read "HE was manifest in the flesh", not as the later KingJames version, which reflected much later trinitarian bias, reading: "God was manifest in the flesh..."
Don't believe everything you hear form Trinity non-believers.. Ellen White wrote that the Holy Spirit is a person with a personality, and she believed it was an actual being.. At Jesus' Baptism was the Father, and the Holy Spirit, showing the Godhead is 3 persons. The Holy Spirit is probably not a human form being like Jesus became, but is more like a spiritual being that we Humans cannot comprehend.. The bible clearly shows that the holy spirit is a being of it's own, and don't just listen to one side of the argument, for there are many teachings on TH-cam by SDA teachers that clearly show the Holy spirit is the 3rd person of the Godhead..
I recently studied the issue for myself, and came to the conclusion that the Trinity is not correct. I will include a link to what I consider to be the most detailed and easy to follow video that I have come across. It is about an hour, but includes very many, many Bible verses and covers all the issues. I think it is a very important issue for the end times. th-cam.com/video/ZmsV8WqkKjY/w-d-xo.html
@Geoff Lohrere "...for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come...I will send {HIM}...and when {HE} is come, {HE} will..Howbeit when {HE}, the spirit of truth,...{HE} will guide you...{HE} shall not speak of {HIMSELF} ; but whatsoever {HE} shall hear, that shall {HE} speak: and {HE} will shew you...{HE} shall glorify me: for {HE} shall receive of mine: therefore said I, that {HE} shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you." John 16:
Doesn't say IT, it says HE...not a THING, but an HE...not a VAPOR, but a PERSON...to consider the Comforter a vapor is nothing short of pantheism. EG White would not even read the book Dr. Kellogg wrote because of its (his) pantheistic views; to even suggest that the Holy Spirit was not person. She warned the publishers against printing the book; and it was that very book that was on the printing press when God burned down the publishing house...I am having trouble with my tablet, right now, but when it is working again I will add some EGW quotes that clearly shows that the Comforter, The Holy Spirit, is a person. and not a thing...
There is no trinity in the Bible. There is a Godhead; made up of three individuals...and these are ONE God.
@Geoff Lohrere of course Christ is a "he". But he did not say that he was going to send himself; he said that he was going to send another person after he left..." When I get home I'm going to send myself back to the world as a comforter." "But I can't send myself back until after I go."? Sounds like a psycho.
Christ is in front of His Father's thrown interceding for His people... He sent another person (the Comforter, and third person of the Godhead) to be with us while He is away...John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you ANOTHER Comforter, that HE may abide with you forever;...but ye know HIM; for HE dwelleth with you, and shall be in you"..14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send IN MY NAME, HE shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever {I} have said unto you.
There's the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit all together. Verse 16 " I will pray the Father " ...person number one, the Father; person number two Christ; person number three, the Comforter... Verse 26 But the Comforter, person number one, the Holy Ghost; whom the Father will send, person number two; in {Christ's} name, person number three...
It does not say, "the Father is going to change my name from Christ to Comforter, and send me back to tell you whatsoever I have said unto you...for I shall not speak of myself but I will only speak about myself"...(John 16:13)
No matter how you look at it, there are three distinct physical persons in the Godhead... The Father, the Son (Christ), and the Holy Ghost, Comforter, Spirit of Truth...and They are One!!! John 10:30; John 17:11; John 17:22
(just because... Romans 8:9)
shawnncheri young I thank you for this post because this is so very confusing to so many people. There is a Pastor who taught many years that the Holy Spirit was a third being for exactly the same reasons that you point out here. Now that Pastor teaches that Christ speaks often in the third person. Like when he refers to himself as the son of man. He is the Son of man, but is speaking as though the Son of man is someone else. If you choose to know more, contact Pastor Daniel Mesa for his sermons on this subject.
Geoff Lohrere My dear friend in Christ, You have much wisdom about the One True God and EGW’s understanding of this subject. Please, I pray that the undeserved love, and understanding that Christ Shows you....... be also with the spirit you show.
After watching many hours of these videos it seems to me that there is one critical and objective fact that is being ignored. God cannot be legitimately spoken of as "God the Father" until there is a “begotten Son." A part of what God ( אֱלֹהִים / Elohim) is, becomes a type of Father at exactly the same time when another part of what God is (the Word) becomes the only begotten Son - and this is of course at the Incarnation of עִמָּנוּאֵל (Emanuel/God - with us).
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made.” “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”
In your description of what God is, you also speak of these 3 aspects. God the Father, the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit which they share.
And as near as I can tell, you are not trying to say that Jesus is a created being - are you? Jesus is the Word and without Him was not anything made that was made.
The part of Elohim which remained in heaven when The Word became Emanuel (God - with us) acquires another title (one of His 102 different names and titles in the Bible) “God the Father”, at exactly the same time of the Virgin Mary’s Immaculate Conception - the Incarnation. Any time before that, Elohim is neither God the Father or the only begotten Son of God.
Do you see the problems with speaking about them as if the Word was made by El Elyon at some distant time before time? The Word which becomes Yeshua HaMashiach is still the same yesterday, today and forever, the One and only True God.
Elohim, which today we may refer to as God the Father, The Son of God, and the Holy Spirit (which they share), are One and the same as El Shaddai, the Word, and Rauch Elohim.
Keep in mind that what has been revealed to mankind about what God is, is adequate to understand what we need to know Him. But all three of the elements that are what God is, should be understood as a useful construct for our necessary understanding but there may always be some incomprehensible aspects of God that we will always be trying to understand.
What we do know, is that God is not some sort of Tom, Dick, and Harry alliance of individual Gods, which is the strawman you seem to be setting up to refute. I am not sure anyone actually thinks about God like that.
My expectation is that you will want to challenge the idea that the Son of God (the Word) was made, or somehow came into existence separately from God Almighty before the Incarnation of Emanuel.
Spare me any evidence that is not directly from the Bible - if that is what you believe. After all of what I have read and seen on your videos, I honestly do not know what you believe that is any different than what I do. And I am ok with the use of the term trinity, even though to me there are only two beings that share one and the same Spirit. God to me is like H2O. Three atoms that make one molecule of Water. They cannot be separated and still be Water. Elohim cannot be separated and still be God.
How can anyone fall for this ? The Holy Spirit is in Christ's own words the one "who leads into all truth", If you fall for this sophistry and believe that the Holy Spirit is not aperson you are all at sea with no navigator ! Christ said he went away so that the Spirit would come and that would be better than his continued physical presence!!
Believe what you will , lam for following Christ which is why I left the Adventist church some 40 years ago.
The music is driving me nuts. We don’t need music to hear the truth. It’s very distracting and annoying. You’ve made a big mistake.
Thank God secular law & order finally stopped the witch killings.
I can only imagine if a deity desired my awareness of it, I would probably be aware & if not, then why call deity other than fiction?
Christians embarrass & insult us with this barrage of nonsense, retreating into caves like this channel to refuel.
Dear Christian Uploader, My god, have you any sense of decency?
If everyone is not aware of "the" deity, then it fudges the title a bit, don't you think?
You encourage people to travel as if best done with one foot in fantasyland.
Theologians grant each other doctorates based on nothing whatsoever.
Christians are fascists, rendering to Caesar what is his, exercising freedom of speech with abuse.
The naked ape is a vain species, Christians want to own the narrative, claiming knowledge of a supreme being, which is never verified beyond a tool of fiction.
Christians insult intelligence in public, suggesting we travel with a map of fantasyland, walk with one foot in reality & one foot in literary fiction & state propaganda.
Christians authorize themselves to weigh-in on whatnot as if Earth had gravity-free zones, & everyone knows it.
Christian invocations call into existence evil as good; they are wolves in sheep's clothing.
We inherit their vast bulk of our oldest documents, the records of looting & torture: inquisitions.
Christians are hypocrites with productions like this, making a scene of praying in the temple.
Christians are the lowlifes in society, avoided like the insane pretending to talk to an invisible friend, holding a hairdryer in place of a phone.
Christian manufacture ultimate vanity, proclaiming we are all gods, children of the highest god.
Democracy is a cult-like faith where many actually believe giving power to others always has consequence which can be tolerably managed by the managers.
The models for Limits to Growth of 1973 were accurate.
The state has no plans, so the only difference between a Republican & a Democrat is how fast the knee hits the floor when a donor walks in the room & SCOTUS produces stench.
“The doctrine of the Trinity which was established in the church by the council of Nice, A. D. 325... This doctrine destroys the personality of God, and his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. The infamous measures by which it was forced upon the church which appear upon the pages of ecclesiastical history might well cause every believer in that doctrine to blush. {J. N. Andrews, March 6, 1855, Review and Herald, Vol. 6, No. 24, P. 185}
“...and as the son of God, he would be excluded also, for he had God for his Father, and did, at some point in the eternity of the past, have beginning of days. So that if we use Paul’s language in an absolute sense, it would be impossible to find but one being in the universe, and that is God the Father, who is without father, or mother, or descent, or beginning of days, or end of life.” {Review and Herald Sept. 7, 1869}.
J.N.Andrews - showing clearly that the trinity teaching is not biblical
“J.N. Andrews reiterated the common Adventist understanding that God the Father is the supreme source of all life in the universe. In 1874 he writes: “That God is the fountain and source of immortality is plain from the statement of Paul. He speaks thus of God the Father: ‘Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen nor can see; to whom be honor and power everlasting; Amen.’ 1 Tim. 6:16. This text is evidently designed to teach that the self existent God is the only being who, of himself, possesses this wonderful nature. Others may possess it as derived from him, but he alone is the fountain of immortality Our Lord Jesus Christ is the source of this life to us. ‘For as the Father hath life in himself, so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.’ John 5:26. ‘As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.’ John 6:57. The Father gives us this life in His Son. ‘And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.’ 1Jn 5:11, 12.
These Scriptures do clearly indicate that Christ is the source of endless life, and that those only have this who have Christ.” {Review and Herald, Jan. 27, 1874 p.52}.
Elder J N Andrews was one of Adventism’s founders and leaders in the highest sense. He is well respected today throughout the Seventh-Day Adventist church. The churches 1st university bears the record of his name and shows the perception of scholarship which has been associated with his Biblical Exegesis.
This is deceptive in teaching. Did Jesus come in 1844? Growth in understanding continues to move forward. Jesus was not the Father but was with the Father at Creation. Jesus is the I Am as well. How can you not see that or that the Holy Spirit is from the Father yet is not the Father? I and my Father are One. Where do you want to stop looking back for the truth and move forward? How much scripture do you need to ignore to keep this belief? Let's keep all of scripture as we keep all of the commandments. God bless.
Threes people are said E.G.White. from chile.
TRINITY IS A DOCTRINE OF THE BIBLE: There is no "Trinity" word in the Bible. But I will says, it is not Catholic's Doctrine. In fact, it is Bible's Doctrine.
But there are verses that supports "Trinity". SDA people believes Trinity. Read the following carefully. This is my view:
The Trinity Doctrine:
ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN ? ARE BAPTIZED CHRISTIAN? If so, you believe trinity doctrine.
When you are baptized, you have been introduced the Three Heads of God, the FATHER, the SON, and the HOLY GHOST.
Q: What the priest say?
A: I Baptize you in the name of the "Father", "Son" and the "Holy Spirit".
Q: What Jesus said about baptism?
A: Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
All Christian churches believe in Trinity, knowing or unknowing including this preacher, and therefore they baptize or be baptized in the name the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
If it does not make any sense to you, please, hurl some rough stones of words at me. I'll polish the stone and give you back.
1 John 5:7 - "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Q: What you think? Is "Trinity" a Catholic Doctrine?
A: Is a Doctrine of Heaven.
Q: Are they Christian, who do not believe "Trinity" but getting baptized?
A: Not really; a fake Christian.
This video need to be translated to Spanish.
yep, most of the pioneers were against the Trinity. Thank God He usedcellen white to lead the church to the biblical truth tgat God is indeed a Trinity
God The Eternal Father was First in point of time. He had no beginning. For He is a Living God. And out of His own Bosom he brought forth his only begotten Son Jesus Christ. John. 17: 8. John. 8: 42. So Jesus Christ's personality had a beginning." From eternity there was a complete unity between the Father and the Son. They were two, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character. Read also Hebrews 1: 8, 9. Jesus Christ takes the mind back to eternity and ages past, when he came from the Father, the only one equal to the Father. Col. 1: 19. The Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the Father, is truly God in infinity, but not in personality.
Pioneer writings are not the bible or the spirit of prophecy,
Have a look at this quote from the Desire of ages
“In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived.” {Ellen White The Desire of Ages, p. 530}