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Engineering INFINITE POWER in Timberborn!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ม.ค. 2022
- We're back in Timberborn, and with the help of the Creative Mode mod we build a huge machine capable of providing infinite power to our beaver colony of engineers! (kind of...)
LINKS!
PATREON: / realcivilengineer
MERCH: teespring.com/stores/real-civ...
MEMBERSHIP: / @realcivilengineergaming
REDDIT: / realcivilengineer
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STREAM ARCHIVE: / @realcivilengineerarchive
PLAYLISTS!
MINI MOTORWAYS: • Mini Motorways
INFRA: • INFRA!
DORFROMANTIK: • Dorfromantik
CITIES SKYLINES - ENGITOPIA: • Cities Skylines - Engi...
KERBAL SPACE PROGRAM: • KSP
POLY BRIDGE 2: • Poly Bridge 2
HYDRONEER: • Hydroneer
VARIETY PLAYLIST: • VARIETY PLAYLIST
Epic Game Store Support-A-Creator Code: RCE
(In connection with Epic Games’ Support-A-Creator Program, I may receive a commission from certain in-game purchases)
#realcivilengineer #timberborn #engineering
If you add dams to the end the water will first fill up everything, then once it hits the tops it overflows. This helps a lot because the wheels generate power based on how high the water is. The water will stay high because of the dams at the end.
Yes and no, the speed of the water flow is what makes the wheel turn. Having it higher doesn't change anything unless he introduce more water to flow through the aqueduct.
The issue is one pump is not enough to run the wheel run.
@@takumi2023 once the dam is in place and fills up, it creates flow meaning a dam would of solved everything if he put one at then end of each drop off. flow would be the same but at a higher level which is what he needed
@@takumi2023 but the wheels do require a minimum depth before they will spin.
the Middle of the channel could be made out of platforms to save time
also thin water weels would be better for this . . because that would compact the water flow into a smaller area
The waterwheels in this game are really weird. In real life you can't get much useful energy from flow, because if you take away the kinetic energy of the water then you end up with water that _isn't moving_ which kind of jams.
Real waterwheels convert _gravitational_ potential energy. The water flows over the top and then down, and it's the drop which provides power.
RCE: I think I need to add steps to keep the water's momentum.
Also RCE: *builds top two rows with only one level change.*
It’s always a good day when there’s a timberborn video
YES I AGREE !!!!
yes
Aint that the truth
Agreed
For real 😭 I saw this video on my feed and got genuinely excited
Really need some more pumps to increase the water flow. I would try 4 pumps on bottom row, 3 on the next, then 2, then 1. Let the overflow of each pump level flow into the wheel levels. Fairly certain pumps pump more water when the block they pull from is full.
Edit: or maybe just decrease the size of the pool each pump collects from
4,3,2,1 is a good idea! Also deeper or wider aqueducts/viaducts 🤔😝
Also, maybe making wiers with one dam and one levee at the edges (water ladder) to focus the water pressure.
while having more pumps on the lower level may sounds like a good idea, it is not in the best interest of efficiency. it seems that, having more pumps then nessacery wont cause water to "spill out" clearly by game design, what you are doing is, wasting energy pumping extra water up that you don't need, instead of spending just 700 BP pumping water up a single level. your now spending 2800 BP doing essentially the same thing with no extra benefit, the speed of the water running over the water wheels is important, but only to a certain extent. an easy way to think about it is in water block per second. which lets just say is the maximum amount of water you can flow through a 1X channel before it overflows
water wheels are 2 wide at the bottom. and it is possible to flow water through the middle of a water wheel as well to make it flow faster so if you have 4 blocks worth of water you can possible double the energy output of a water wheel, in most cases however you need to get tricky with how you receive energy from this setup making it larger then nessacery. also when working with multiple layers it is not really important to shove 4 block worth of water through a water wheel. 2 is plenty, 1 pump also outputs about 1 block worth of water so for this setup. 2 pumps per layer would be ideal for this setup, again in your example. you would be only pumping half the amount of water into the water wheels. the 1 pump at the top would be a bottleneck and the 3-4 pumps at the bottom would be a waste of energy unfortunately :/
More pumps. Let the overflow in, to combat evap as well but wider water wheels would give you better efficiency across the horizontal movement. Try making the wheels twice as wide. Ideally you’ll get twice the power concentration this would mean also wider basins which would increase the amount of water in your network. And then a small amount of over flow going In to the lazy river at awayward flowing points to give it that extra push. And maybe if you can find pumps that use less power you can increase the flow amount that way.
what?! NO! OMG.....the only thing which matters is the throughput of water per pump and if you have only 1 pump at the top level then you only have 1 pumps worth of water throughput going over the water wheels, but you're now using an ungodly amount of power on all the lower level pumps which are now flooding over each pumping tier reservoir since the pumps on each row are moving less water than the previous row. instead of 4,3,2,1 just do 2 in parallel and use the 4 extra tiles of height for a bunch of wheels, remember to bottleneck flow to 1 tile between each wheel and you're golden, it's all you need to go net positive.
I don't think the height that matters to convert the power, but the flow rate.
Instead of making a staircase water pump, try to make multiple water pump in a single pool, it should increase the flow rate, and hopefully the horsepower too
This. I think for his video he went straight to a big setup, but an engineer would make a small proof of concept. 1 pump and water wheel. But because you need more flow, up the number of pumps. Height difference of the floor does not seem to matter. Only height difference of the water surface. Once the water surface reaches 0 height then that is the max amount of wheels you can add
You mean beaver power
@@hellothere6627 underrated comment here
Max is 180 bp out of a water wheel so you need 4 wheels at full capacity for every pump. From his set up, if you get it started up from shame wheels, you should be able to pump more into the reservoir to get more flow and get the system self sufficient. Might need a bigger surface area reservoir so water levels don't dip as quickly as well.
@@brendenpolkinghorn1415 the wheels don't max out at 180. They produce 180 hp per cm/s of waterflow. That means a single wheel could power two pumps if the flow is great enough.
Are the water wheels programmed to only accept horizontal movement? Cause having them spin from vertical water movement like a waterfall feels like a better method.
Can't get enough waterwheels in that way. Even if a 1 tile drop was enough to max out a waterwheel with that method you still have a 100hp deficit.
On the other hand, by minimizing the height and having pumps in parallel to actually fill the canals you can actually be net positive.
That won't work I think, since the water is like "laid" out horizontally, they can't "move" up and down, they just gradually change height, that's why you can't build leeves above a platform, since the water above that leeves will also be visible from underneath the leeves.
Water is literally everywhere, turn off camera collision and you'll get what I mean
The wheels in game don't work like real life. You're right that they really should work by having water fall over them.
I would like to say that I setup the massive water wheel next to a water fall and was generating massive amounts of power. I do think that as long as the falling water also flows under the water wheel as well it'll calculate the falling water as part of flow.
I tested vertical movement, they ignore it. The wheel next to the waterfall produced just a bit of power, the wheel next to it produced as normal.
Well it's neat to see that Timberborn is obeying the laws of thermodynamics and conservation of energy.
RCE saying "it should work in theory" was good for a laugh. It _shouldn't_ work in theory, but it might work in practice
Not really. I made a one level design (no pumps in series), where I get constans 728 HP with one pump and 1575 HP with two in parallel. It now gives energy for two lumber mills for droughts.
He's using power wheels. Its not perpetual but its renewable. Anyway, 8-10 day droughts dries it up pretty quickly you won't be able to produce energy constantly unless you use some windmills or energy factories.
@@drewbeck1000 hahaha that gave me a laugh :)) You are right :)
@@KorhalKk The wheels are powered by water moving, the water moves due to gravity, the water is moving due to gravity because it's high up, the water is high up because it was pumped up, the water was pumped up because the pumps have power, the pumps have power because the wheels are turning.
ie: the pumps power the wheels which power the pumps. It's perpetual energy.
Imkibitz did a very similar design. I'm starting to think it would be better to have separate individual pump loops. A couple pumps and a drop of a few tiles, and then connect them together later into one power grid.
Not a bad idea
I don't think they're copying anyone, it's a logical conclusion.
If a game has a way to use power to move water, and a way to generate power with moving water, trying to break the physics engine to get infinite power is the first thing I thought too.
@@thats_absrd convergent designs
@@thats_absrd Considering Kibitz took a few days to make his video, I doubt they are copying each other. Just a natural idea to emerge from pumping water up, then using the flow to generate enough power to at least power the pumps. And of course everyone wants to be the first to publish the video showing how it can be done.
@@thats_absrd not at all, you're seeing people using stuff from a recent update to do new things, some convergence is to be expected, not marvelled upon.
You definitely need more slope. For a single row of pumps, you're probably going to want to do 3-4 small power wheels per step of levee. For a double row of pumps, you can probably up it to the regular power wheel. It will probably take a triple row of pumps to keep up with the large power wheels. It's probably a lot easier to think out the layout and build the slope/channels in the map editor rather than trying to levee it up in the map.
Thats all backwards. He isn't able to fill his canals, so he needs less slope. To solve his canal filling issue he needs more pumps. With a lower slope he can put more waterwheels with less pumps. The goal is to have the lowest pump:waterwheel ratio possible, so from the video it seems like 4 parallel pumps with only 4 steps if slope would be more ideal.
No I think he's right you need more slope to increase the flow and speed of the water which would give the water wheels more power n probably put the same set of water wheels on the opposite side to double the power with the same amount of pumps
@@traniel123456789 Water wheels reduce the speed of water flow since a patch or two ago. He needs a lot more slope.
What if the canals were wider? Or if he used the thin wheels from the Iron Teeth? Then he could zigzag the wheels, would this help the flow?
@@Bama_Boy From the Update 1 patch notes:
Water Wheels now have variable HP output, depending on the current’s strength. If placed well, they’ll be even more effective than before.
Water Wheels will now slightly slow down the water passing through.
I myself have been experimenting with infinite power. In my experiments, I have found that, using the extra large power wheels from the Iron teeth faction, 3 rows of 8 wheels will spin on the same level before needing to drop down at all. I made 4 sets of this design and used 14 deep water mechanical pumps(the Iron teeth's pumps go 6 blocks deep) to get the water back up to the start. The pumps use 9400 beaverpower and pump water at a rate of about .3 cms each. This amount of flow gets the wheels to produce an average of 370 bp apiece. With 4 sets of three rows of 8(96) wheels, that brings my total power production to over 35,000 beaverpower. The system does need to be supplemented with water as it evaporates, and some manual adjustment is required to get the prime amount of water in the system, but I was able to keep the system running up to five days into a drought with no backup reservoir. I think that is definitely worth the extra 25,000 power you get out of this system. I will probably post a TH-cam video of it if I have enough people request it.
Personally, I'd love to watch that. Maybe even go into detail on how you approached this problem
You have to arrange your wheels in parallel, not in series. You can put them in separate channels, two wheels wide. You also need to have a big-ass top reservoir that you can fill slowly. That gives you the start needed to get the whole system running.
Series is way better than parallel. When you align wheels in parallel you're at best halving the water flow through each wheel, which cuts power generated by the same amount. The best thing is actually to put a levee between each wheel, halving the width and doubling the flow rate. Parallel is for when you've cut the water's path down so much it starts flooding and you need another place for it to flow.
@@KatotsuSama Halving the flow? I don't see why. I'm using an optimal amount of water for each (double) channel and I'm getting about 4 times as much power for the same water volume as in series. Is there a reddit for this? I'll post a clip.
@@Harrydewulf When the experimental build went live they changed it to water speed instead of just movement. When you restrict the flow of the river through a choke point it increases in speed. If you don't choke the whole river blocking one tile means little, but if you have a 2-wide channel bringing it down to one for the wheel will speed the water up for the detection of the wheel. Iron Tails like doing this even more since their wheel is one tile wide by default, which makes catching the flow hard in the first place.
Edit: went back and found the video that experiments with this for a demonstration. The vid is covering a lot more than just this, but the 5 mins after the timestamp is him talking about flow affecting power.
th-cam.com/video/D_kPxwQsN7U/w-d-xo.html
@@KatotsuSama Thanks!
imkibitz did almost the same thing and he succeeded so the question left is: who is the better engineer?
Tbf he had help from the comments on a previous episode
Apples and oranges. One is a modded version and one is a labor of love
Also I think civil engineer has a day job on top of his TH-cam career.
imkibitz spent more than 10 hours building this. Matt went crazy in a few minutes. I think that answers the question.
@@okachobe1 In case you're curious, he did have a day job, as a civil engineer of course for over 10 years, but he mentioned in one of his timberborn streams that he was able to leave that job in favor of putting more work into his youtube
@@pupslab2183 Ah that makes sense! i just found out last night while watching his initial city skylines video he mentioned being a roadway engineer for 8 years. but the video is a bit older too! thanks for the heads up!
The water wheels reduce the speed of the water as they take energy out of it. You need to make more "steps" (have the water flow down) more often for it to keep its momentum.
TL:DR Water needs to go faster, the faster the water, the more energy from the wheels, wheels slow down water.
If this was irl then this would be true but its not true with this game. The water wheels do not currently slow the water flow.
If you want proof, you can put the depth marker in the water, since it also shows you the speed of the water's flow. You can compare the water flow without water wheels and then with water wheels in place.
I believe devs have spoken on this. I saw like 3 or more videos this weekend, all on this same concept. In one video, the creator talks about the devs acknowledging that the wheels do not slow the flow of water.
@@Bama_Boy
From the December 17 patch notes:
-Water Wheels now have variable HP output, depending on the current’s strength. If placed well, they’ll be even more effective than before.
-Water Wheels will now slightly slow down the water passing through.
@@wanderingursa8184 yes I missed that part of the update. Slightly slowing it, I'm curious as to how much each wheel slows the flow.
They need to add slopes, I don't see how dropping straight down will speed up the water that much. Yes if there was slopes I could see it working well, but not a straight drop off.
i almost instantly saw that you made to map the strongest shape and i had to pause the video to laugh for quite a while
If you do it again but this time have a step down right where the canal starts, it’ll give the water a boost of strength right away and it’ll produce a lot more power.
Also it might be worth it to have two pumps for every level so that you can double the amount of water coming down. It’ll cost you more power but the efficiency of the water wheels will more than double with the exponentially increasing speed caused by a surge of water through a thin canal.
this :D or like ImKibitz did... 3 by 3 pumps... :D need more water to be pumped :D
"Why do i never think things through?"
Because you're an engineer matt, because youre an engineer.
You might also be an engineer, using an apostrophe on the first but not the second you're
Stop the cavalry is the best Christmas song
The best technique would be to pump the water up into a large elevated basin then let that fill up... Once it's full let the water flow down through an array of water wheels similar to what you're doing in the video. Have the first set of wheels already lowered by 1 cube.
This will give you enough volume per second to start the system and once it's running it should become self sustainable.
To save space/blocks you should of used the support of the higher canal as the inner wall for the lower canal. Across four rows you'd save enough space for a fifth row. Also it'd probably be best to build up instead of down. You'd get the bottom row first, with just one pump (a sort of primer) and then start building the next row higher up, that way you aren't taxing the power supply to much to quickly.
Just finished rewatching both seasons of the mighty beaver series and was hoping to see some more timberboners today. Perfect timing, thank You! :D
i love ur video matt keep up the good work and have an awesome day
How about a group of springs surrounded by quite tall levees? Rather than only pumping the water up hill, let the springs fill the levee enclosed area then run down hill powering your water wheels.
Interesting video, thanks for sharing your Beaver Engineering Adventures with us!
I think if you tried a more gradual slope downward, instead of having a row of water wheels at the same level, go down a block, add a water wheel, go down a blow, add a water wheel. I think your main issue was that your terraces created vast expanses of flat space while moving the water upward, but you didn't use the gravity to your advantage because you could have had a drop between almost every waterwheel to give it the push in momentum.(Though, I say all this having never played the game)
I started on Meander, Iron Teeth, Hard difficulty.
First I built a reservoir where water comes in, on surface like 1/8 of map, about 10m deep.
I found a way to slow down water flow (1-wide 10-high gap): if you dig one extra block down where that waterfall falls (only one block, 1x1x1), it slows down water rate ~6 times or so.
Then I built ~20 big water wheels, and it was enough to power 2 mechanical pumps and all my carousel and other stuff I later built.
Experimentally, I found that big water wheel only accounts the water flow under its axle (2-wide channel but actually only its 2x1 area). I had no height-drops in all my wheels chain, the 1-block height channel (2-wide) was enough and every wheel gave like 180hp.
It was not completely infinite engine, but enough to 'survive' 30-day droughts (longest) with full power on.
Definitely possible, did it last night with the large power wheels and the same slope theory!
Congratulations, good Job. (Not being a smart ass)
This is possible. I've finally managed to do this and am currently dialing in the power percentages to compensate evaporation. You'll want to run mechanical water pumps on a dedicated power supply to resupply your upper reservoir so that your percentages are precise. My net power available from this system holds fairly steady at an extra 8,000hp and the reservoirs are supplied by only 1 engine and nothing else :). The trick is to have enough mechanical pumps for the width of your canal. It will take slightly lover one pump for each tile of your canal width. Your canal should run straight with no turns, dams, or floodgates.
If you use ironteeth, their pump is 6 units deep for the same amount of power.
Plus they have the large water wheel that generates more power with the same flow
11:31
For anyone who’s interested, RCE is talking about “Stop The Calvary” by The Cory Band.
What?
If I'm not mistaken,1 water rock is about the same output of 2-3 mechanical pump. I run some build I did it with 8 mechanical pumps, on the same row, not on different level, so that water is output on the same artificial river you setup. Then you need about 18 water wheels. And a really really big water reservoir, at 6 level deep for it to pump water. If without mods, you need about 9 water source (the little rock that automatic makes water, 9 of it) to fill the reservoir, the water suck a tremendous amount of water to run an artificial river.
Love the Timberborn videos. You should try this again but next time play as the Iron Teeth and use their Large Water Wheels. They produce a lot more power at a lower flow rate. I was daydreaming about doing something similar all day at work yesterday haha.
Aqueducts could end in the reservoir below theirs, maybe with doubled pumps. Starting on the edge of the map would give space for even more wheels
7:30 because that's how water flows *Down* for sure 😂👀
It's all about the cms (cubic meters per second). A mechanical pump has an outflow of 0.07 X 1 tile at 0.5cms. Compare this to a source block which is 0.15 X 1 tile at 1cms.But the flow gets cut in half because this waterwheel needs a channel 2 tiles wide, so your flow will be 0.035 X 2 tiles at 0.25cms from 1 pump. All this means that each water weel should output 90hp X 0.25 = 22 hp per wheel. At the very least you'd want to change your setup so all 4 pumps are dumping at the top, meaning your limited by the 4 tile height of the pumps go up to. This should get you an output of 90 hp per waterwheel. Keep in mind the volume of the water, too. With 4 pumps your flow should be 0.14 X 2 tiles.
Look at all those beavers
Me: "It's like an all you can eat buffet."
RCE: "Context is important"
Me: "Yep XD"
😂😂😂😂😂
Well, I must remind you: Water wheels produce water based on the speed at which it is moving. So shorter steps should produce more power.
But each pump obviously just allow for 4 steps.
Loving the *slightly* unhinged cover of Stop the Cavalry! Also love seeing physics being questionable what with making more energy coming out than was out in lol.
If you create a large water reservoir first, probably for as high as 4-8 blocks, then do what you did, it will work. Instead of the mechanical pumps providing the running water on the canal, you can make like a hydroelectric dam scenario where a floodgate would supply the canals with a consistent and more stable supply of running water, and then pumps will then push the running water at the end of the water wheel canal back to the top, looping the cycle over. Then, for more momentum, you can repeat the step terrace flow of the power canal plus deepening the u-turns by 1 block so that the flowing water wouldn't bounce back momentarily to disrupt the water flow.
It was very cool to hear Grian narrating a part of the build
I used the pumps to create a pumped water storage, using wind power for the pumps, they filled a holding tank whenever there was wind so that the water wheels and the crops wouldnt be affected at all during the dry season
The big change I'd make would be to use the Iron Teeth beavers. their water pump can pump water up six blocks, opposed to just 4, for the same horsepower. In addition to the better pump, they also have bigger water wheels. I don't know if the bigger water wheels are more efficient per space, but I'd at least be worth looking into.
I've actually managed to get "free" power, not much, but out of one pump working, I was getting on average 750-800 HP from the wheels. What I did is a bit similar, but I had 2 pumps on each reservoir with a dam at the end. I then had a little canal (with a drop of 1 height) with 2 rows of 4 wheels leading to a second reservoir on the same level, from which the next pump pumped the water up to the next reservoir and a canal with again 8 wheels etc. Had that 5 times, and then made canal like you did, but with only 3 wheels per level, a drop of only 1 height and a dam at each drop. So when I started my system, I had 28 hamsterwheels to power the first two pumps, once the first water wheels started spinning, I could connect the next 2 pumps (would be low on power from here on until everything was running) and continue doing it, until all pumps were running. Think that extra bit of power I made between the pumps made the difference so I could start the system, which was the most difficult bit. I later changed the dams to those where you can control the height. Worked a bit better, but it was still hard to get the system full and running all the way. Once it was running though, it didn't stop.
I did it actually in a normal game, not modded, but with a map in which I had all the canals and stuff build in. Had to restart and edit the map quite a few times, but on my final run I was on hard mode and survived dry seasons of up to 15 days without loss of power.
I also would recommend to leave one of the blocks damming off the flow, so the water takes longer to dissipate. Also maybe pressure system but idk if the game will model that.
Remove the reservoir for the top pump until you need it, wasted water drying up, also may be slowing down the initial flow with the dip.
Another thing is adding adjusting levee right off the main pump area, so you can build it up to overflow or .5 and get it to go gradually.
Fun random old game series idea - Deluxe Ski Jumping. I was addicted to it in the past. First edition is still the most nostalgic one for me, but well, there are more of them (I think it's up to 4 now?).
Infinite power might be a bit difficult to do, but you sure can do water batteries. Kind of like how dams store up water when they're running in excess to release it when power needs increase.
Ahhhh, I've missed Schmichael's editing! He's a fun one that Schmike.
:)
Hey Matto instead of pumping up the water why dont you start with the water shore on top for the initial water and at the end pump it up on top for the dry season
1:11 recognized that the "reservoir" makes "perfect shape" XD
P.S. Scrap tower too!
I'd be half tempted to do some serious testing on this. If I had the time and mods set up.
Start with: set up a pump, and set up a long flat channel. How many water wheels can be placed in a row before there is a notable drop in total power output? Then set up a 1 layer drop and have another line of water wheels, seeing the optimal number before there is a notable drop in power output. I'd also look at 2 pumps pumping into the same stream, does doubling the water input double the power output? How about three pumps? Does that affect how long a flat channel you can have before you need a drop?
I noted in your final version, you have the top channel dropping, but the next channel down doesn't drop at all. This could have affected how well the water flows down.
12:35 Yeah the water physics is 2D, not 3D. Each cell has a water height and that's it. So you're not allowed to put solid objects (i.e. levees) on top of non-solid objects (e.g. platforms) because the simulation can't handle water being above empty space.
Lake Balls looks fantastic with all the water coming down Shaft River
One obvious tip I didn't see in the other comments would be to loop the aqueduct back into the highest reservoir possible so as to not waste water already high up in the system. That might have removed the need for 2-3 pumps and allowed it to produce excess power.
Ok, I'm officially in love with your editor. xD You're so funny my good man!
use Iron teeth faction, they have a bigger more efficient water wheel option and you can give yourself wood to get engines going in the beginning!
(also their pumps can go 6 tall instead of only 4)
I did this in my unmodded game, did a more efficient job of my levies, but works a treat!
More pumps at the same level. I don’t think height impacts the flow but rather the amount of water flowing in the channel. Maybe a square spiral? One entry. One exit. 4 pumps?
Need more than a single pump to keep the volume high enough. Add to that, damming up will give you a surge but then is more likely to drain too fast if the pumps can't keep up
I was thinking that as well, his problem was that one pump couldn't keep up to keep the wheels spinning, however increasing the number of pumps will increase the amount of energy needed, it will be a gamble if the wheels will produce enough energy for more than one pump even with the increase in water volume.
I reckon you need to increase the volume you're pumping, to push more water into the canals.
If you are in the CreativeMode anyway, then instead of building 10 levels of levees, you could use the "Map editor tools" where you can use Terrain height (absolute or relative), and you can easily build like 3x3 and setup height from 1 - 16, i know it works only for the creativemode, but it saves a lot of time and brain cells in cases like yours now. Hope you would see this, cheers!
EDIT:
plus if you use the Development Console (Shift+ALT+Z) you can set speed to 30x or 99x, if your PC won't burn due to how game is straining the CPU
I've tested perpetual motion with the Iron faction and with 10 of their 6 height pumps and 6 levels of 10 of their 6x2 power wheels I was able to achieve a power of 28Khp for the 7Khp I was inputting so 400% efficiency. Also I was returning the water straight to the basin of the water pumps so there was need no need for an additional level of water pumps.
The lesson I learned from it was that even though perpetual motion is possible, the cost of explosives, construction wood, time, s̵͇͇̫͓̫̜̹̣̯͋̾ͅą̸͈͚̮̻͙̭̫͐̓̾́̿̈̽̋͐n̶̛̜̻̪̫͍͐̅ͅị̷̻̗͙̈́͐̑̒͒̓̈́̇̕͜t̸̨̧̻̺͖̙̪͍̱͈̟̍ͅͅͅy̴̢̟͙̹͚̜̘̏̌͐̄͛̔̀͝ and area is so high that simply using it as a growing area for engine fuel is more efficient and is clearly the sane option. But if I were sane I wouldn't be commanding beavers to break the laws of thermodynamics...
It might be better to pump water up into a super high waterfall then have the wheels in steeper aqueducts (2-3 wheels then step down, 2-3 more, step down). Or make a volcano basin full of water then make a bunch of streams going down the mountainside and try the waterwheels there. Maybe also build the wheels one lower than the max water level so it'll always be a solid stream.
Honestly, it's probably gonna look like a massive hyrdodam that takes up half a map no matter what.
I made one of this "infinite" generators in a normal game mode. The trick is you need direct all the water flow to the system, build a huge reservoir (at least 3 deep, large area) to store water (easy in the right map) and use 1 Triple floodgate (can be just a empty space tbh) keeping the system running.
The reservoir stores the energy and the flow is limited by the 1 block wide gate. The energy fluctuates according to the water level, but it works.
11:41 I think it is called "This is Halloween" at the beginning lol.
Yes, you only need to raise the water up once, but you need multiple pumps in parallel to keep up the flow rate, you don't need any in series raising the water up more. Just raise it up one level and have a long straight set of water wheels powering like 2-3 pumps that all feed into the same reservoir.
I've suggested beaver power on the forum. The devs marked it as "unlikely to happen". So hamster powers and beaver powers are up to modders to make.
Flow can be tied to water mass behind it. You break one block on a large full reservoir and the speed and force that water comes out with is insane.
The reservoir looks incredibly strong
Matt: "why don't I think this through"
Me: You are such an architect
A few other videos have people doing the same thing, pumps level with the wheels resulting in stagnant flow. Have the wheels below the pumps so water falls down and picks up speed. Maybe have the troughs 2 deep instead of 1 as well. Could mess with having a reservoir at the beginning of the wheel network too.
Hi
man it honestly felt like you and kibitz both raced to find the best way to make infinite power XD
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Imagine being a mod
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1:10 oh GOD the SHAPE is to STRONG!
It might be map specific, but what I'd personally want for infinite power is just to be able to run a constant loop during the dry season. So If you find a map like plains, mountains or terraces where the water source is relatively high compared to the rest of the map, I'd put a load of water wheels downstream of the source to generate an awful lot of power, which can then be used to pump some of the water back up to a reservoir near the source. Then during the dry season you can open a floodgate at the top to send the reservoir water through the system. You can then raise some floodgates near the pumps to recycle the water back into the system.
It's not a completely closed loop, but you can use new water in the wet season to top things up.
I would like to see more of this. “Free energy” has been a recent interest of mine and I’ve found in my research that it’s an idea often theorized but quickly shutdown. Looks like you are close to having it figured out.
Irl this would break the laws of thermodynamics. Even if you could pump the water up with 100% efficiency conversion of power to the potential energy of the water and then convert the potential energy back into power with 100% efficiency on the way down (which is impossible), you would still only be breaking even, not generating power. Free energy is physically impossible.
1:11 i just realized , its the strongest structure
edit : 1:40 2 strongest shapes
11:45 Mat is losing his marbles
Also, putting Gravity Batteries on top might help you with kickstarting the whole thing. Leaves beavers free to do schtuff like sleep and eat and make more beavers.
8:25 Never before seen an accurate picture of blueballs
Heyo don't know if you are still reading these but the Water wheels seem to be generating power based on flow rather than head pressure, so instead of raising the water higher and higher to make more "pressure" have a bunch of pumps on the same level and increase the amount of water moving.
Tis the season to be jolly, fa la la la la la la la la
i think you might need to add more pumps at the bottom and with each branch off for power you can lose 1 row of pumps, that way you can make sure there is enough water being pumped to the top, or you could instead of dumping the water off in another branch off of water wheels dump it in the water bucket 1 level down zigzagging down to the bottom (so for example the top level branches to the left then the level below to the right etc etc.) and add a dam on the exit of the water bucket to create the proper water level for the pumps straw. that might work (never played the game before myself).
There are certain things you can do to increase the efficiency a little but with only 1 pump throughput you're limited. If you place a bottleneck between each wheel (preferably 1 tile levee, 1 tile dam for a single pump I'd say) then the flowrate will be increased and you'll generate more power per wheel at the expense of 1 extra tile length per wheel. Whereas it is technically feasible to generate infinite power and you can fairly easily top up the reservoir as long as you have the water to spare somewhere, it's not really practical in my experience. The output WILL fluctuate, you have to take care not to overdraw power as well, if you drop below 100% of your full demand, the pump output will immediately start to decrease, therefore so does the output of the wheels.
However, this behaviour can actually be quite useful if you're running a wind powered setup, since you can set up single tier pump to wheels runs in a fairly cheap and compact manner, attaching a windmill to one side of each wheel and one or both sides of the pump. Once the system warms up and you have water flowing you are left with a capacitor which will continue to produce power after the windmills stop turning. I have a setup running reliably which uses 2 parallel pumps to power 28 total wheels at an average of 85HP per wheel, meaning the pumps use 1400HP and leave me with just under 1000HP 'free'. I use more than that so the system will slowly bleed out energy but it takes a good couple of days to run dry
I have been using essentially the above design for my folktails latest couple of runs and it has made power during drought MUCH easier (if not trivial in easier difficulties) since you can rely on wind pretty much exclusively, water is just for energy storage.
I feel like if you fill the system with water first and make the wheels just drain out from the pumps instead of doing the curves in the system, just let the water run back to the system. More steppy like the Hanging Gardens. Should work if you can get each wheel up to 50bp. But you might need to use large wheels or something
You could use it as a battery.
Pump the water up to a big reservoir at the top, then release it with floodgates, when you need power.
If you take advantage of the fact that you can build anything instantly with no cost, you can quickly build a small city to power engines. This would be far more effective than shaming wheels.
Water loses power per wheel, so build shorter runs (5-6) and drop a block down at each end. Repeat that assembly across the span you were already using, and Bob's your uncle ;D
1:08 The strongest shape!
First appearance!
I love how in every series He manages so built Something and explain Like, okay Here a River, over there a Reservoir, and i Accept IT. Then the vid goes on and i slowly realize, wait is that another dong -.- But then i realize, ITS ANOTHER SNEAKY DONG 🥳🥳 and i keep getting tricked at the beginning, and i Love IT.
Keep it Up man
dams at the end of the rows and larger reservoirs at the pumps should help a lot. i was really hoping to see this work! you gotta try it again when you get the hang of these new pumps!
You don't actually need to build up too much and making steps, you just need it to be at least one block higher than the surface of the water so that it flows back and it can be just flat as long as you pump enough water in. So basically build all the watermills on the same 1 block high level and build 3 or 4 water pumps all pumping water from the lake to the watermills. There is still the problem that to make 2 to 3k hp you would need so many watermills that the canal could become too long and water wouldn't reach the end, but you can try
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I think that the pumps are not able to move water fast enough yet, so maybe if wheels where more on a slope or maybe not two wide all way down would help. You could probably just test it with only a lower reservoir, and a upper reservoir, one pump taking water from the lower and filling the upper one. And two rows of wheels
This whole experience reminds me of the little "friction is negligible" notes on homework 😄
More incline is definitely needed, more step downs will keep the water flowing instead of trying to push it over a flat surface. Maybe make the pump area one block higher than your wheels and use a dam, that way the water can build up and still flow down. That would make the first few wheels turn at the least
1:30 in and there is already been two immature subtle jokes
To quote a very power fictional character “UNLIMITED POWERRRRR!!!!”
The pumps don't have to actually touch the water, weirdly, so you could have gone up four, and if you used the ones from the _Iron Teeth_ faction, you can go up six (there's a mod that allows you to use the IT faction stuff with the Folktales). Thanks for these videos - very informative and entertaining.
I made true infinite power with a similar strategy with the Iron teeth faction almost as soon as the experimental build got released. I did it in the game itself, so no cheating mods. It works with both types of water wheels, but you need more pumps.
The most efficient way I found was to use 9 pumps in parallel and use at least 30 large water wheels. Do not use pumps in serial to increase the height even further. The slope down does not need to be steep, just drop one levee every 15 large water wheel or so (even less should work just fine).
A separate power source is of course needed to start it all, but after that it can be disconnected as long as you don’t take too much power from it or the system looses too much water.
you can try generating from the bottom up. Try to make one small reservoir with two pumps, build the power for that and then try to add one pump, one level. It feels like you would need more pumps in the lower levels, something like a pyramid
Kibitz made a video about this same concept. He got it to work in a real world.
So "this is holloween" is officially a Christmas song?
Really need to measure how far water drops off from extensive water wheel use. Because each water wheel decreases the velocity the water travels through when it impacts and leaves a wheel. I really wanted to do an undertow generator with water wheels, platforms, and levee's in the modded flood plains map.
It would be how hydroelectric dams are really built. Maybe one person might modify levee's in this game so they CAN be built on top of platforms, just to see how water interacts with the game's physics. I suspect that the water physics don't travel underneath, but over objects. Kind of a shame, though.
I also kind of wanted water wheels to generate power from waterfalls for that extra bit of reliable power, but won't impact the velocity of the water all that much.