Isnt it because every single Lucis King had the light of the crystal on their side from the beginning that they were able to weild the Armiger Weapons? Noctis wasn't able to harness it from there at the beginning so he had to physically go to each tomb, something the previous Kings had no reason to do and why Bahamut made Cor guide him to the first 2. Also, after the 10 year Gap, Noctis bathed in the crystals light. So its possible that because he did that, he was able to finally summon them all even if he didnt reach every tomb beforehand. The fact that Lunafreya was able to gift it to him temporarily against the fight with Leviathan, was because she was a messenger of the Gods and it took her dying breath to commit to that last action maybe?
SephirothSpirit maybe being an Oracle she awoken his latent ability to use the armiger at that time because Canon wise he should have all the royal arms but in the end he basically asks the past kings of Lucis to come to him
SephirothSpirit It may be that Noctis, being the Chosen, had to prove himself by going out and discovering the lost weapons in a way to strengthen his bloodline ready to be processed into the Ring of the Lucii in that 10 year gap. It could also be the point made about Luna, in that among the Oracle's abilities is to awaken the Armiger in it's crystal-like state. The Sword of the Father that Noctis uses in Gralea is the physical thing carried by Ravus...so maybe the Armiger is just stronger if you obtain the weapon's power yourself. Or the kings are annoying and resell everything after just cause.
This is exactly my reaction when I hear about Ardyn, only exception, I wouldn't drop my baby, I would have her listen to learn about this badass too xD Also if that profile picture is yours, your hair color looks like a slightly darker version of Ardyn's xD that's epic!
The game says Luna is the youngest Oracle in the game story, an Oracle is the messenger FROM humans to gods. In the story messengers can go through what we know as "time", just like gods. The gods know that darkness (created from a virus/plague) is going to fill the entire world. So the human king, Ardyn, tries to save the world via the crystal power (Bahamut) but is not worthy of the light because he is greedy so he becomes an inmortal vial of darkness and daemons. Prophecy of the gods says that a king worthy of the crystal power can save the world... In the times of the game, just as Noctis can time travel thanks to Umbra, gods send a message (the omen trailer) through the messenger of the gods, Pryna, to the messenger of the humans, Lunafreya. Even when this has a very big price: due to the huge time travel Pryna and Luna have to die. This time travel is to change the world. From here Pryna and Luna are only alive while they change the future. That's why Luna is not "afraid" of dying, because she knows how things end up and she has a duty to fulfill. Regis and Ravus know about this omen too, possibly Regis via Ardyn and Ravus via her sister. Ardyn (the human-king-ancestor part) is "making" a king worthy of the light so he (the darkness) can be banished from the world. Regis knows peace treaty is a lie and he is going to die, he also knows what Ardyn wants and he has the duty of sacrificing his own son to stop darkness. But he is aware that Noctis is not "worthy" of the crystal power because Noctis won't sacrifice his own life for others just as any human tries to survive before becoming a martyr. So Regis send his son on a trip WITH not bodyguards but "brothers" and make Noctis see, feel and live things like lost, angry, pain, joy, care and sacrifice so he has a "kingdom" to protect. Regis is too old to become the king of light (he's not even a match for Glauca) and he knows the Lucis Caelum bloodline is only alive until darkness is banished from the world. Noctis won't ever have a happy "ending" so Regis decides to use Umbra to give Noctis a very good life with his chocobros even when Noctis will die. Since Ravus sacrificed his own honor and life becoming an Imperial puppet just to save his sister, he thinks this "omen" is a stupid thing. He doesn't think Noctis can archive all this things, he doesn't think Noctis has the strength and he doesn't belive Luna should sacrifice for Noctis. That's why he hates Noctis as a human-prince but believes in her sister's idea of the King of Light saving the world. Ravus trusts this omen when Noctis starts receiving gods blessings and the imperial forces crumble. In the beginning he doesn't believe the omen so he tries to use the ring and his arm burns, with this he believes and he "carry" Regis sword as if he "wanted" power but he takes the sword so the empire can't destroy it or use it, until he can gave it to Noctis. Luna was going to give the ring to Noctis once she was sure he was worthy of it. But in the Leviathan coven scene Ardyn allows Noctis to have the ring, so he ends Luna suffering and kills her. She tells Ardyn that she will go on until Noctis become the "rightfull king" and that doesn't matter if she suffers because once the darkness falls everybody will know peace. But Ardyn is like "you have done enough, take a rest" so he says "how sweet, but you first". Of course he does it in a twisted way because of the darkness in him. Ardyn kills Luna so the prophecy can go on, Noctis needs to feel sadness and angry so he is willing to stop Ardyn at any cost. Before dying Luna touches Ardyn's arm so her duty can go on inside the crystal (at the end of the game). I had the doubt about why the game story said Shiva was slayed and that line about Shiva/Gentiana "the face she wore the day she-". I always thought Gentiana was a human and she became a messenger I think Gentiana did something so good in her lifetime that she earned the right to become a messenger. I believe since Shiva hasn't a body she just materialize through the messenger Gentiana. And now... what I believe about Luna, Noctis and the end of the game: BOTH NOCTIS AND LUNA BECAME MESSENGERS Both sacrificed themselves to save the world so they earned the right to become inmortal messengers just as Gentiana. A couple like Pryna and Umbra. And they ended up together, "dead" in body but inmortals in soul. Gentiana always has her eyes closed because she doesn't need them as a normal human. At the end of the game Noctis and Luna close their eyes...
Anthony Tosh that's ironic . Because ..... no one should have to pay any more to the company to get what little we got for our money. It's criminal, especially because this ff's story isn't good enough to warrant more anyway
blame nomura he was all over the place with the game. If the guy who took over stayed as the creator from the start. This story would of been ten times better
All of this actually make me angrier, because this WASN'T IN THE GAME! Why?!!!! Why for god sake this wasn't in the game?! It could maybe have been the best FF to date! I don't know if I should hate or love Square Enix.
they made a game that was supposed to release a couple years ago but took forever cus of problems and then rushed to publish a game that was already late and had to cut out content.
Rivershield Sometimes forcing your way through lore and backstory that isn't immediately there or obvious can make the world and story that much more satisfying on an individual level? Might just be me!
Rivershield Definitely a lot of great missing content and I get you, it's a massive waste of potential in places. Hell, I didn't even know Noctis was this Chosen person until meeting with Bahamut pre-endgame. A lot of things a poorly explained but an imperfect product just leads to more interest in everything it's missing! Maybe the writers are getting inspiration from us to fill in the rest, almost like how Mass Effect 3's ending was obviously leading to the Indoctrination Theory...but, who knows. More thinking = more fun
Lemurkid Pavlova Altought I agree with you, it's not like if thinking and formulating theories are as good as seing them in practice. Honestly, in my opinion all of this is useless if none will be in the game. This situation is not like Dark Souls for example, where you have a series of fragmented information that are given IN-GAME, which fans use to formulate theories and keep the community going on speculating things. In FFXV we had a lot of plot holes that are being filled with information from external sources, from statments of developers involved in the game, from official guidebooks. This is not good at all. Yes, it is interesting to discuss these things and viewing videos like this one, but we do it in hopes that some of this might be IN THE GAME. I never looked forward to DLCs as much as I do now with FFXV. I hope that they don't screw up things by making DLC plotwise irrelevant.
I wonder if Regis could have been a messenger. He was able to communicate witch Bahamut (?) through the crystal in Omen and he knew about the fate of his son from the very beginning
Sequel? Lets have a FF15-2 based 2000 years ago(or more) as a young Ardyn and Play what happened back then. Maybe, we will realize who to actual enemy was? XD
zero5559 The "real" enemy was Ifrit, he caused the Starscourge, which is why Bahumut and Shiva were so intent on destroying him. Personally I felt Ardyn wasn't the villain he put him self as. though he did some pretty despicable acts he was working for Ifrit. I personally felt like Ardyn wanted to die and that's why he helps noctis. it's the only way to truly destroy the star scourge he was originally meant to cure. As long as he lived so did the scourge
Ardyn was a total prick; he killed Luna, killed her brother, destroyed both Luna and Noc's hometowns and purged the world into darkness. I can't remember the last FF villain I was so invested in delivering an ass whopping to LOL.
Very true, Ardyn is a worthy antagonist though do note all those events benefitted Ifrit the most. Luna worked personally with Shiva who was Ifrit's biggest enemy. Insomnia was the home of the last thing capable of stopping the starscourge that Ifrit started. That world of darkness is Ifrit's end goal, Ardyn was his pawn in it for the revenge against the royal family and to end his immortal life he grew disdainful of. This is all assuming that Ifrit is the main antagonist plotting everything which the events seem to suggest.
Thatssomegoodpie Animations They will not be doing a sequel. The reason why is because many of their sequels like FFX-2, FFXIII-2, etc. Weren't very popular and didn't sell very well. That is why Final Fantasy XV will be just one game and the movie Kingsglaive, the anime Brotherhood, Ultimanina, and future DLC will be made and was made so that it will help expand the story without having to add sequels.
The think reason Ardyn killed Luna is simple, he didn't want her to make more covenants for Noctis. They blatantly said 3 of the gods were dead in the game, killed by the Empire. This leads me to believe Luna had to power as an oracle to reincarnate the gods. This would explain why Gentianna was able to become the new host of Shiva, being a holy messenger. However, the 3 gods that are dead would have to be Shiva, Bahamut, and Ifrit. If Ardyn led the fight against those 3 gods, I don't see him being a messenger of Ifrit at all. It would make no sense to kill the god you're aligned to, even for Ardyn. Especially since we basically see him summon Ifrit's new host himself. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but that was Nyx, which explains the burnt arm. Why else did we find his daggers in the city on a psychomancer. I don't think Bahamut actually was killed, wounded perhaps, but I think he retreated into the crystal to heal. As well, Gentianna was the first oracle, and the king receiving the crystal was Ardyn, which he got from Bahamut. Ardyn was betrayed by his brother Izunia when he consumed to many daemons, and lost his shit. The blood line continued to the present ending in Regis and Noctis. This was much longer than 13 kings though. Noctis' full name is Noctis Lucis Caelum CXIV, meaning he is the 114th generation of Lucian blooded rulers. Now on to the summons, because you got 2 summons fairly early on, and then Leviathan in Altissia. I don't think Titan died during your fight with him, I think he wanted you to prove yourself worthy, before submitting. We can clearly see he didn't leave a corpse and he faded into earth energy(I can only assume), to be absorbed by Noctis. We can't confirm a Leviathan corpse or lack there of sadly, but we can't disprove it didn't do the same thing Titan did, test Noctis. Luckily Ramuh freely gave his power, or we would have had one hell of a fight, way too early in the game. Titan went well because we had magitek backup. It was a fight stacked in our odds to stand up to a god. By the time we reached Altissia, Noctis had come more into his own powers. He was ready to fight a god, even if Luna had to call the royal arms from the tombs for him. His body was able to handle the power long enough to pass Leviathan's test, even if he did go into coma like state for a short while afterwards. The jab Ardyn took at Gentianna was more aimed her true self from the past in my opinion, when she was his oracle. tl;dr The oracle has more powers than we know. Ardyn killed Ifrit and Shiva for sure. Ardyn is a dick.
What about the two old ladies? When you fight Adamantoise and you speak with everyone at the Crow Nest, both are talking in a table and one is dressed in white, the other in black. Reminded me so much of Pryna and Umbra (Maybe human forms?) Also Ezma (the one that gives you the keys for the vaults, white one) says to Noctis that she is the keeper of the eight seals. I don't believe she goes there by herself, obviously she teleports there since dungeons are dangerous. The other old lady, Kimya (the witch dressed in black) she spokes in a very legendary way in "The Witch in the Woods" quest similar to Gentiana. Hope this helps :)
every fucking moogle says kupo!!! There's no such thing as a kupo!! It's a moogle!! Clearly you haven't "kupo" or you'd know they're called moogles "kupo" and that all moogles say kupo "kupo''. duh so many ff n00bs on here that know nothing and are all pretenders. especially with a name about "lightning" when ff13 was the worst ff of all time lmfao
Wow, thanks for this video Peas! To add to your comment in the translation at 6:58, in the Japanese version Ardyn also says "That was the beautiful face you had when you were killed, too--" *iced* Comparing versions, it seems the English version was the most vague when describing Shiva/Gentiana's relationship.
That's a damn epic video Pes! Thank you :) Finally my Gentiana and Pryna queries are closed! :D Wiew! Pryna especially was bugging me for a while too - would've helped if I read this Ultimania stuff! Epic Omen Trailer connection/speculations you've mentioned there - Finally a more solid confirmation that that was it's purpose! Wiew. This game just got 100 times deeper, again! Things are connecting amazingly - Bloody love it. Pes this is huge, and damn awesome - My ever continuing excitement and love of this game just grew even more, again :P Great choice in music throughout this whole video too!
Eeeh thanks Keegan. I had to solve the riddle for you as your our team Gentiana :P That's my fave bit I think. How much it added to Gentiana's character. She made a real sacrifice and had her own identity. I suppose it goes to explain why she wasn't there in kingsglaive aswell. Gentiana grew up with Luna and likely had very close feeling for Luna. Shiva didn't have those. Pretty sad and profound. Does Luna know she lost her closest friend?
Exactly Pes! It's so painful, but it's so damn strong. Does Luna know? At this point it could be that she would be aware - considering her strength and resolve she has as a character.. Some of it could be in her own understanding of what she herself is (a messenger) 'her calling fulfilled' she maaay have somehow been aware of Gentiana's situation too? If so, it's like a slow torture for Luna knowing of Gentiana's sacrifice and of her own soon to come, in another way... Uh :,( Or maybe she just didn't know, and we could just be more sad for the two of them..for Gentiana... No.. :'(
Except Gentiana and Shiva haven't been the same since forever lol. Shiva literally only woke up 11 years ago... and was an ice giantess... while at the same time Gentiana was watching Luna. This is all confirmed. There is no refuting it. It even states Gentiana is a sent 'apostle'. Not really sure if you've watched the vid because this isn't a speculative or theorized point. Also let's not talk about the 'guide'. It is so old and innacurate that the ultimania trumps it 100%. It doesn't even reference Clarus' name properly.
Final Fantasy Peasant if gen reveals herself as shiva, her presence during the past 11 years doesn't refute anything... you're saying gentiana therefore was a woman who seemingly took on shivas everything when in fact she simply just "reveals" her true form. Ardyn recognizes her as the goddess... by stating he knows her appearance when he fell her. That's in the game... there's no trying to look deeper in theories or un confirming sources. That giant you see that's down...that just shows you her giant form from long ago...the snow storm happens because she sneakily is around as to make her appearance as gen just as she's been for some time.. and the guides you say are wrong, are taken from the actual compositions plot entirely... it doesn't have anything that was revised...simply same entity..alias appearance
The only illustrated page of the Cosmogony book we see pictures Gentiana AND the woman on the cover together. Gentiana is a winged messenger escorted by Umbra and Pryna and the Oracle (aka the woman with the trident) is standing next to who's either Ardyn or Izunia (or whatever the 'jealous king' is called) They're clearly 2 different people.
If anyone is curious about that flying creature on the red sky scene, just so you know.. that thing is actually in the game and its flying around Gralea in Chapter 13
Peasant that vid was awesome, you shed light on so many unexplained points. And I can't believe that the bodies hung up were real, but it makes alot more sense. I also believe that in the omen trailer the black dog at the end represented Ardyn. This is because until Luna was killed by Ardyn in the game, the player (and noctis) didn't know who's side Ardyn was on. And in the trailer Pryna turned into the black dog right after Noctis killed Luna. So in the trailer Ardyn straight up used Noctis to kill Luna, and he was probably able to do so becuase Noctis didn't have his friends (for all we know Ardyn made Luna look like someone else just like he did with Prompto). But in the game he knew Noctis would have done anything to protect Luna (and he also had his friends), so he first introduced himself as a friend and guided Noctis to Altissia. Then when Noctis was weak from the leviathan fight he was able to easily kill Luna.
lol! love the thomas the train reference. keep up all the good work. i love your channel. I would definitely love to see theory videos on some of the older games too.
14 swords land from Bahamut. from 18:30-18:33 you see another sword hit in the background by the lamppost after Ifrit does his flip. I couldn't hear the #4 off screen touch down, even in slow motion, but if it's there, then the total is 14
MercilessV Cuts, dev time, pressure from higher ups, also the fact that Nyx killed him? It would be an insult to Nyx's sacrifice to leave him alive after all that.
Kind of blindsided me with this theory vid... I love it! This game clearly has hidden depths and I thank you for showing me things I would never see on my own. Heres hoping the dlc dives head first into the lore behind this epic story :D
Great Video dude, your theories are always well thought out and backed up with evidence. An interesting video would be what is the driving force behind each summon, as Shiva loves humanity and wants to protect it whereas Ifrit wants total chaos and such. Makes you wonder what levithan, titan and ramuhs, etc true intentions were. Does feel sometimes that backstory on the summons/gods wasn't as fleshed out as they usually would be. In every Final Fantasy the summons backstory always explained even to the minor summon like Carby. But regardless Brill Video!
Awesome theory peasant! Though I woulden't mind or be surprised if all of this is there for us to find and speculate upon. But ultimately isen't more than just very vaguely hinted at in the upcoming dlc :) Very much like the ending as Tabatha has explained in an interview before. Anyway, keep up the great work!
27:42 about Ifrit's burned arm. (According to Kingsglaive) only three people ever put the ring on, and all 3 have had the same arm set ablaze. Revis, Lunafreya's brother, Nyx, as shown during the battle against the general, and Luche, one of the Glaives. Nyx, you listed as a messenger to Bahamut, maybe Luche or Revis were servants of Ifrit?
I didn't know Ardyn's line wasn't complete in the english version . . . but then, I played the game with german subtitles and it does fit; you can even hear him form the "d" of "died" when he got frozen. but yeah, the subs clearly spelt it out.
You must be one clever guy to putting together all these clues. These videos blow me away. I wish some of these informations were IN the game though... That part where you explained the German version says "the day you... DIED" is quite scary. When did Shiva/Gentiana die? I'd like to see it on a timeline. Was this Ultimania book assembled before the story changes? It feels like the Ultimania lays out the story and the rest is for the development team to stuff into the game. But the story got many changes during development, yet the Ultimania still has the bits and bobs. At least those infos can fuel speculations and theory videos like this. Great job!
the official guide has the time line in it; it was 11 years prior to the game, so only recently in the game lore. And as someone who played the game in german (at least the subs; the dub kinda sucks) I can confirm the line. . . I was wondering why he didn't knew that earlier.
Amen, amen, amen :) Preach! Idk if the "24 messenger" idea will come to fruition, but the hit list on the Tenebrae family/Shiva is perfect ;) Ardyn is a BAMF! The dynamic btw Bahamut, Shiva and Ifrit makes sense, the other three are just kind of thrown in there :/ I hope they expand on the game's backstory with DLC, love to explore the time when Ardyn was the healer; I need to know who Izunia is!! lol
Holyyy crap. Incredible theory video.. That bit with Ardyn hunting down Shiva's messengers is sooooo interesting. Wow. F... I wish all of this was in the actual game.
as always love the throes you present bud. The armiger weapons I think I may have a sort of explanation. I haven't counted or really looked into this but regis might nt have all the weapons, Noctis on the other hand HAD to get every weapon available, this was because bahamas stated that for Noctis to banish Arden once and for all he need the providence which was essentially all the crystals light, this is why he needed all the astrals, and the weapons because the astrals and the weapons were physical manifestations of the crystal and thus held light within them, so the fact that Not needed all the worlds light may be why he had to go collect them all compared to Regis who only needed a few for power and went to the easily accessible room
The story could have been a lot better but it felt so rushed. Tbh I wouldn't mind a directors cut edition...lol where they fixed all the damn story problems.
oh yeah,you really have a point!and it is really cool,the story gets interesting more and more...as soon as i do my ng+ i will have eyes open to every clue for the messanger of the gods
To add on the Bahamut theory. When you summon him and the camera does a close up to his face, you can see his blue eyes and black hair. Kinda like the Lucis family bloodline. Maybe him giving them his power also gave them his traits as well?
english translations are mostly so different from the original or even german ones. *looking at FFX* i also think one of the reasons why Lunas body was weak, is simply because she was talking to the gods, the rites, convincing the gods that noctis is the chosen king. i mean we all saw that leviathan attacked Luna when she tried to convince her/him/it.
Dino was a messenger of Titan, the earth god. You had to find gems, so that makes sense. Cindy was a messenger as well, I think. Both sent you on quests, both became serious about you undertaking these quests at some point. I remember Prompto bringing this up once after you accept a quest from Dino.
I dont know if messangers necessairily have to know they are messangers, but if they dont... Gladiolus could be a messenger of Titan, thus giving more significance to the fact that he leads noctis through his encounter with Titan, and why he is shown to be able to block one of Titans blows. Ignis could be a messanger of Ramuh. Putting on the ring causes Ignis to go blind and Ramuh seems to be a judge or represent justice (his attack is judgement bolt). This may symbolise the idea of justice being blind. I tried to think of a way prompto could be a messanger as well but I couldn't
Oh Peasant! About Cor, from the beginning of the game he told Noctis that there were Thirteen Royal Tombs in all, but later on in the game we receive two of the Armiger Weapons from Shiva/Gentiana and the other from Ravus. What would you make of this?~ I've been trying to piece something together but I've got nothing!~
Also when the Crystal/Bahamut/lucii said that they were only looking forward to one more death there either referring to Noctis (The human sacrifice meant to get rid of the star scourge) or Ardyn (The stars scourge itself)
Theory: Ifrit for some reason, went against the will of the other gods. Seeing as Ifrit's messenger (with the burnt arm) was possibly the current user of the rung of Lucii, Bahamut retaliated by making the ring reject him hence the burnt arm. Out of rage Ifrit probably fought one or more gods, leading to his death. To survive he transferred to his messenger's body. Side theory: We know Ifrit was not entirely against humanity in the beginning but something led him to bring the star scourge to Eos. I theorize that one of his messengers (replaced afterwards by Ardyn) fought against another messenger for personal reasons (Probably Bahamut's messenger replaced by Nyx). Both killing each other, leading to Ifrit's rebellion.
At the end of the game when Noctis says "kings of Lucis ... come to me" you see a short clip of the spirits gathering at the top of the tower, but you see a spirit Bahamut on the top. I think Bahamut is all of the former kings combined, witch is why his attack is "Ultima Sword" and there being 13, maybe he was only manifested after Regis died?
6:06 Exactly..first incarnation. It is very obvious the woman that we know as the Messenger of Luna mostly likely is the second. You don't just get immortal just like that and she probably took on the next re-incarnation of Shiva. So i would dare to argue they are both. Or the woman that existed way back when does no longer exist. Only her body does. But even then Shiva would have all her knowledge so taken on her personality would not be that hard of a feat. But since Shiva is a force of good i am going with that she simply became one with her. The thing is how i know she was Shiva is not because the obvious fact she turned into her. But the fact she kept her eyes closed the whole time. This is something very unique to the actual Goddess Shiva and her natural counterpart Kali. And yes this game borrows heavily from Greek Mythology. So the body,her first reincarnation she left behind refers to the Titans. Who existed before the Gods. Of course they have to make it fit somehow changing it here and there.
Man your video is so mind blown! After watching, this sparks my guess on the possible messengers could be side quest related that lead/guide Noctis and team in various way: Titan - Dino, Dave ( retrieve dog tags fallen to Earth), Vyn ( taking ""Landscape"" pictures), The chocobo guy ( chocobo provides land transport) Ramuh - the lady from Lestallum power plant sidequest that ask u to fix stuff like the electric cable Leaviathan - the fisherman quest ( Pre-order bonus lure was even called "Leaviathan'"), the frog lady quests Bahamut - Ezma? ( locked up strong daemons & gave the keys to strong ruins which also give us the best end-game weapons) Just my 2-cents guess after watching your vid and can't remember these side quest character's name as I hardly touch them. Now i'm gonna go and complete those side quests =D Thanks for your vid and wonderful theory!!
I think Aranea might be one of messengers too. She was really powerful in terms of the battles and then, later in the game, she always appears for your aid as you need it. And she was kinda displeased to work with the empire but I think she was doing it to keep an eye on Ardyn from closeby.
Justin Alon thats a rumor said by the same guy who leaked the story 6 months prior to release. So be prepared dear noctis to show your true character , the hakf demon half human.
They said the ending of the game is up to the player. What ever you think happened happen. They want to leave it open to us. They have a lot of stuff they can do for prequels. Like Regis, Ardyn, Cor, heck they can even give us some stuff to fill that 10 year gap during when ardyn took over. There so much they can still do for this game to make it even more amazing than it already is!!!
Who is they and when did they say that? Because the ending isn't open up for anything. Noctis sacrifices himself goes to the afterlife with his wife. Everyone else lives a peaceful life in a new world without demons. That's it.
Tabata came out and said there's no right or wrong answer on what you think happened at the end of the game. I agree with what you said happened at the end of the game but others might think differently. For instance when everyone was next noctis to do the final blow to ardyn. A lot of people think there all dead but I completely disagree. Or the fire scene after the credits. Some people think that is in the after life also. Once again though i disagree with that also because that scene is right before you make the assault on Lucis. Apparently they want to leave it to whatever you think as a player but to me its pretty clear what they where aiming for.
The only problem that i see with your theory about Astral projection into messengers bodies, and that's why Ifrit is smaller too, is that well, Titan, Ramuh and Leviathan are also killed (or so I think at least), yet they are all still gigantic. But really thrilling video overall, I enjoyed it. Aside from that inconsistency, I still believe your theory was spot on and that Ifrit is projected in a messenger's body, due to the burnt hand, but I still believe that size doesn't really matter unless the 3 previously mentioned Astrals haven't really died.
I don't have access to my game at the moment to double check but I went through and counted a couple of weeks ago and I found that there are exactly 24 named, non-party characters who assign quests. Whether they are implied to be messengers or just part of Square Enix's regular obsession with mirrored numerology, I can't say. Regardless, great video. Love the theories.
I think, by the end of the game, the gods have left Eos. The Daemons are gone, the Fleuret and Caelum bloodlines are ended; it would make sense in the narrative that gods are no longer interfering with the fate of humanity. IMO, Noctis not only had to take the powers of his ancestors, but also of the gods to defeat Arden. When Noctis died, he took the gods with him to the afterlife.
Kingsglaive: There was a huge monster with tentacles. I thought it was Orthros but maybe it was Kraken who was going after Luna. Meldacio: They are no ordinary hunters. Ezma IS some sort of a keeper, who has the key for the secret dungeons. Also end-game you will see that they brought significant amount of information about Starscourge. And Sania MAY be one of them Kimya: Do you remember the Runes on the Havens? She was supposedly one of those who makes these Runes repelling the daemons. Randolph: The blacksmith who makes you legendary weapons. A messenger of Bahamut, Astral of Swords?
Also, I really hope you'll read this because I want your opinion on it: I think Bahamut was once a chosen King of Lucis, we knew that he was once a king of lucis, but not a chosen one, just like Noctis, and had the same purpose or a similar one. Why ? My assumption of this idea is based on two facts: First you can see eyes through Bahamut helmet, and this IS a helmet, that alone is a pretty huge detail when you think about it, it's a person inside some kind of godly dragon armor, in my opinion it strenghtens the idea of a person ascended to an Astral/God. And secondly, and that my friend, you almost got it covered entirely in this video, you have the fact that he unleash 13 swords just like Noctis's Armiger AND the animation of Bahamut's Ultima Sword is alsmost exaclty the same as Noctis when he unleash the final blow against Leviathan and Ardyn when he uses the power of the chosen king, the swords positioning, the arms, play them side by side and see for yourself ! Tell me what you think about it Peas :) Sorry for my english, not my native x)
Woah....you just blew my mind. This makes me wonder if Noctis and Luna-Freya were both taken over at the end of the game just like Shiva took over Gentiana by the gods given the epilogue after the credits. I love this game with its plot holes! I really think they did this intentionally to immerse yourself in the characters and the world.
Actually, 13 Swords landed in that Bahamut Scene, one was without audio however, specifically right behind Ifrit when he's about to deflect Bahamut's sword.
That´s really insane! We so much need some confirmation from SE, at least some about all those theories. My further guess 1. Starting with Noctis himself. I know he is the chosen one blabla but in fact he can understand and talk to the gods. I think that makes him to a messenger aswell; my guess is bahamut. 2. Sania the crazy froglady. Gladio know her, so many sidequests, she is like everywhere. Frogs > rainy weather > lightning > rahmu! 3. Dave from hunter hq. Like Sania; so many quests and he is also everywhere in seconds. His mentality kind of reminds me of Titan 4. Definitely Ezma...don´t know where to put her though.
It's great listening to this lore video to try and figure out possible explanations, but it really does help really drive that nail in further about how much was cut from this game lol
I was expecting the one I read from reddit. Like Dino is Carbuncle (they look the same, and communicates via phone!), Wiz is the Fat Chocobo, Vyv is the Phoenix, etc etc.
im calling it. Cor is a former king of Lucis. he uses a katana, one of the armiger weapons is a katana, he's apparently immortal, and apparently its very well possible hes a messenger of Bahamut. hell i bet his story spans other games as well just under different names.
Boy, I think that lich carrying the kukris of nyx is also a messenger of Ifrit, makes sense because Ifrit is sitting on the throne of Chaos yada yada yada ... I know some will say, "if he were a messenger, Ifrit would have come back to life from it, as it only appears after we kill Ifrit "but I do not think that the process of return to life from a messenger is instant, and perhaps even had a limit to this, remember It is known that they are becoming weaker every time that they "reincarnate" in a messenger .... more importantly, that lich, he was carrying the kukris of Nyx, WHY? There's something about that Lich, I'm sure of it. Why the hell it only appeared after Ifrit died? (I dunno, perhaps to avenge his master)... This can not be a coincidence guys, I'm Brazilian so sorry for the bad grammar.
Dino for Titan (cause of precious rock obsession) Old lady who give you the dungeon seal key for Post game for Bahamut (because you learn after u finish all of them she tells Noct the he just finished a promise made by his father) Fishing quest guy for Leviathan (cause water related) Ariana for Ravatah (cause he throws his staff and she jumps up really high and throws her spear/lance) Its crazy how theory crafting for this game can actually be a full time job....needing 100s of hours of game play and 100s of hours of research.
Sorry I didn't have time to read over 600 comments to make sure this wasn't said already. I noticed some dialogue lines from Cor on my NG+ playthrough in the Tomb tutorial section. You were asking why Regis has weapons and if the tombs had been found. Cor mentions that no Lucian king in recent history has found ALL of the tombs. That would explain why Regis does not have 13 weapons in Brotherhood. In Kingsglaive he uses more than 13 though and can also apparently generate an unlimited amount simultaneously for the Kingsglaive. So short version, Cor implies that he himself came to those two previously with Regis, which is why he knows where they are. He also implies that their discovery had something to do with the battle. This line came up when Prompto mentioned the sandbags and supply crates piled up outside the first tomb. Cor says they discovered it by using it for shelter during the battle.
Maybe Ifrit's mastery over Ardyn is a result of the scourge, not a deliberate choice. Either that or Ardyn turned to Ifrit after doing all the work he did and then got rejected by the rest of the hexatheon. Or maybe a bit of both. By furthering his own ends, he does what Ifrit desired and turned the world to ruin...but he also spurred Noctis into ruining Ifrit's plans in the end by making sure he became the king of light. Ardyn got his revenge on the Five, the remnant Lucis Caelum house, his own release from endless suffering and eternal torment in the form of forced servitude to the dark, and a massive F you to Ifrit all at the same time. Sly-ception indeed
Hey Peasant! In regards to Cor possibly being a messenger of Bahamut, did you know that the Crownsguard insignia is actually an image of Bahamut with 13 swords? I thought that would be an interesting aspect to share with you in case you didn't know it! It definitely gives the theory some extra support. Also, great videos man, keep it up! :D
As to why Regis has Armiger weapons: He likely didn't go to all the same tombs as Noctis. He's the 113th King of Lucis, and each previous king could well have left tombs with Armiger weapons.
Cool theory, I think your really on to something! The Gods to me are the true villains in this story as everything bad seems to stem from their influence. I wish the game had touched on that a bit more
![Every CANCELLED Final Fantasy Game [Deep Dive]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1EMhb__WBug/mqdefault.jpg)
Mate, you missed the most obvious/under-rated messenger...... Noctis' phone.
Smurfy yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah boi
Fucking genius XD
Isnt it because every single Lucis King had the light of the crystal on their side from the beginning that they were able to weild the Armiger Weapons? Noctis wasn't able to harness it from there at the beginning so he had to physically go to each tomb, something the previous Kings had no reason to do and why Bahamut made Cor guide him to the first 2.
Also, after the 10 year Gap, Noctis bathed in the crystals light. So its possible that because he did that, he was able to finally summon them all even if he didnt reach every tomb beforehand.
The fact that Lunafreya was able to gift it to him temporarily against the fight with Leviathan, was because she was a messenger of the Gods and it took her dying breath to commit to that last action maybe?
SephirothSpirit maybe being an Oracle she awoken his latent ability to use the armiger at that time because Canon wise he should have all the royal arms but in the end he basically asks the past kings of Lucis to come to him
SephirothSpirit It may be that Noctis, being the Chosen, had to prove himself by going out and discovering the lost weapons in a way to strengthen his bloodline ready to be processed into the Ring of the Lucii in that 10 year gap. It could also be the point made about Luna, in that among the Oracle's abilities is to awaken the Armiger in it's crystal-like state. The Sword of the Father that Noctis uses in Gralea is the physical thing carried by Ravus...so maybe the Armiger is just stronger if you obtain the weapon's power yourself. Or the kings are annoying and resell everything after just cause.
That makes sense since Noct hadn't been officially crowned or designated as King yet and that would explain having to physically go get them.
Yeah, maybe one of the perks of Kingship is not searching dangerous dungeons for your heritage cause nobody got time for that
DID ANYONE SAY ARDYN
closes book
quits game
pauses TV show
smashes a few cups
drops a baby
GO ON, PLEASE I'M LISTENING
EDIT: Amen btw.
This is exactly my reaction when I hear about Ardyn, only exception, I wouldn't drop my baby, I would have her listen to learn about this badass too xD
Also if that profile picture is yours, your hair color looks like a slightly darker version of Ardyn's xD that's epic!
The game says Luna is the youngest Oracle in the game story, an Oracle is the messenger FROM humans to gods.
In the story messengers can go through what we know as "time", just like gods. The gods know that darkness (created from a virus/plague) is going to fill the entire world. So the human king, Ardyn, tries to save the world via the crystal power (Bahamut) but is not worthy of the light because he is greedy so he becomes an inmortal vial of darkness and daemons.
Prophecy of the gods says that a king worthy of the crystal power can save the world...
In the times of the game, just as Noctis can time travel thanks to Umbra, gods send a message (the omen trailer) through the messenger of the gods, Pryna, to the messenger of the humans, Lunafreya. Even when this has a very big price: due to the huge time travel Pryna and Luna have to die. This time travel is to change the world.
From here Pryna and Luna are only alive while they change the future. That's why Luna is not "afraid" of dying, because she knows how things end up and she has a duty to fulfill. Regis and Ravus know about this omen too, possibly Regis via Ardyn and Ravus via her sister.
Ardyn (the human-king-ancestor part) is "making" a king worthy of the light so he (the darkness) can be banished from the world.
Regis knows peace treaty is a lie and he is going to die, he also knows what Ardyn wants and he has the duty of sacrificing his own son to stop darkness.
But he is aware that Noctis is not "worthy" of the crystal power because Noctis won't sacrifice his own life for others just as any human tries to survive before becoming a martyr.
So Regis send his son on a trip WITH not bodyguards but "brothers" and make Noctis see, feel and live things like lost, angry, pain, joy, care and sacrifice so he has a "kingdom" to protect.
Regis is too old to become the king of light (he's not even a match for Glauca) and he knows the Lucis Caelum bloodline is only alive until darkness is banished from the world.
Noctis won't ever have a happy "ending" so Regis decides to use Umbra to give Noctis a very good life with his chocobros even when Noctis will die.
Since Ravus sacrificed his own honor and life becoming an Imperial puppet just to save his sister, he thinks this "omen" is a stupid thing.
He doesn't think Noctis can archive all this things, he doesn't think Noctis has the strength and he doesn't belive Luna should sacrifice for Noctis. That's why he hates Noctis as a human-prince but believes in her sister's idea of the King of Light saving the world.
Ravus trusts this omen when Noctis starts receiving gods blessings and the imperial forces crumble. In the beginning he doesn't believe the omen so he tries to use the ring and his arm burns, with this he believes and he "carry" Regis sword as if he "wanted" power but he takes the sword so the empire can't destroy it or use it, until he can gave it to Noctis.
Luna was going to give the ring to Noctis once she was sure he was worthy of it. But in the Leviathan coven scene Ardyn allows Noctis to have the ring, so he ends Luna suffering and kills her. She tells Ardyn that she will go on until Noctis become the "rightfull king" and that doesn't matter if she suffers because once the darkness falls everybody will know peace. But Ardyn is like "you have done enough, take a rest" so he says "how sweet, but you first". Of course he does it in a twisted way because of the darkness in him.
Ardyn kills Luna so the prophecy can go on, Noctis needs to feel sadness and angry so he is willing to stop Ardyn at any cost. Before dying Luna touches Ardyn's arm so her duty can go on inside the crystal (at the end of the game).
I had the doubt about why the game story said Shiva was slayed and that line about Shiva/Gentiana "the face she wore the day she-". I always thought Gentiana was a human and she became a messenger
I think Gentiana did something so good in her lifetime that she earned the right to become a messenger.
I believe since Shiva hasn't a body she just materialize through the messenger Gentiana.
And now... what I believe about Luna, Noctis and the end of the game:
BOTH NOCTIS AND LUNA BECAME MESSENGERS
Both sacrificed themselves to save the world so they earned the right to become inmortal messengers just as Gentiana. A couple like Pryna and Umbra. And they ended up together, "dead" in body but inmortals in soul.
Gentiana always has her eyes closed because she doesn't need them as a normal human.
At the end of the game Noctis and Luna close their eyes...
Stop you're making my love for Ardyn overflow
XxHelterSkelterxX Stfu Hannah
Sora LOL 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Deno could be messenger of Titan cause his obsession with jewels/rocks🤔
Wish I was rich ,would pay square Enix to fully flesh out this story .
Anthony Tosh that's ironic . Because ..... no one should have to pay any more to the company to get what little we got for our money. It's criminal, especially because this ff's story isn't good enough to warrant more anyway
Anthony Tosh We all did pay Square Enix to fully flesh out the story... but they didn't.
ouch... this unfortunate truth
blame nomura he was all over the place with the game. If the guy who took over stayed as the creator from the start. This story would of been ten times better
that was going through my mind every days dude
All of this actually make me angrier, because this WASN'T IN THE GAME! Why?!!!! Why for god sake this wasn't in the game?! It could maybe have been the best FF to date! I don't know if I should hate or love Square Enix.
they made a game that was supposed to release a couple years ago but took forever cus of problems and then rushed to publish a game that was already late and had to cut out content.
Rivershield Sometimes forcing your way through lore and backstory that isn't immediately there or obvious can make the world and story that much more satisfying on an individual level? Might just be me!
Lemurkid Pavlova I'm just pissed off because of the wasted potential of this game, giving all the content that were cutted of the final product.
Rivershield Definitely a lot of great missing content and I get you, it's a massive waste of potential in places. Hell, I didn't even know Noctis was this Chosen person until meeting with Bahamut pre-endgame. A lot of things a poorly explained but an imperfect product just leads to more interest in everything it's missing! Maybe the writers are getting inspiration from us to fill in the rest, almost like how Mass Effect 3's ending was obviously leading to the Indoctrination Theory...but, who knows. More thinking = more fun
Lemurkid Pavlova Altought I agree with you, it's not like if thinking and formulating theories are as good as seing them in practice.
Honestly, in my opinion all of this is useless if none will be in the game.
This situation is not like Dark Souls for example, where you have a series of fragmented information that are given IN-GAME, which fans use to formulate theories and keep the community going on speculating things.
In FFXV we had a lot of plot holes that are being filled with information from external sources, from statments of developers involved in the game, from official guidebooks.
This is not good at all.
Yes, it is interesting to discuss these things and viewing videos like this one, but we do it in hopes that some of this might be IN THE GAME. I never looked forward to DLCs as much as I do now with FFXV. I hope that they don't screw up things by making DLC plotwise irrelevant.
I wonder if Regis could have been a messenger. He was able to communicate witch Bahamut (?) through the crystal in Omen and he knew about the fate of his son from the very beginning
Sequel? Lets have a FF15-2 based 2000 years ago(or more) as a young Ardyn and Play what happened back then.
Maybe, we will realize who to actual enemy was? XD
zero5559 The "real" enemy was Ifrit, he caused the Starscourge, which is why Bahumut and Shiva were so intent on destroying him.
Personally I felt Ardyn wasn't the villain he put him self as. though he did some pretty despicable acts he was working for Ifrit. I personally felt like Ardyn wanted to die and that's why he helps noctis. it's the only way to truly destroy the star scourge he was originally meant to cure. As long as he lived so did the scourge
Yes I need this in my life!
Ardyn was a total prick; he killed Luna, killed her brother, destroyed both Luna and Noc's hometowns and purged the world into darkness. I can't remember the last FF villain I was so invested in delivering an ass whopping to LOL.
Very true, Ardyn is a worthy antagonist though do note all those events benefitted Ifrit the most. Luna worked personally with Shiva who was Ifrit's biggest enemy. Insomnia was the home of the last thing capable of stopping the starscourge that Ifrit started. That world of darkness is Ifrit's end goal, Ardyn was his pawn in it for the revenge against the royal family and to end his immortal life he grew disdainful of. This is all assuming that Ifrit is the main antagonist plotting everything which the events seem to suggest.
This theory video is amazing. It saddens me though because of 'what if'. I hope we get a lot more story in DLC or updates.
As long as I doubt die by then.
I want a dlc dedicated on Gentiana, she's my favourite character along with aranea highland
Vincent Edenel LOL
I don't know why I'm laughing.
highwind!! It's fucking highwind. Jesus....I swear it's like nobody has ever played a FF game. Cid highwnd? The highwind air ship?
Casey Jones
I think its in relation to Kain Highwind ff4, a dragoon knight known for their jump ability.
pheonix wright I know
Your capacity for observation is awesome. I think you're absolutely insane and amazing..!!
Jesus Christ this game's story is so fucking hype behind the scenes. XD
Also: AMEN MY DUDES
I want a FF15-2 so bad... make it happens square-enix, FF15 sold great so you have plenty of reasons to make a sequel.
Thatssomegoodpie Animations 15-2 could easily be something like what cor was doing during kingsglaive and xv
Moist-Noct Or a prequel about Regis his adventures with Cid and Wheskam. Or a game about the 10 year gap.
Thatssomegoodpie Animations They will not be doing a sequel. The reason why is because many of their sequels like FFX-2, FFXIII-2, etc. Weren't very popular and didn't sell very well. That is why Final Fantasy XV will be just one game and the movie Kingsglaive, the anime Brotherhood, Ultimanina, and future DLC will be made and was made so that it will help expand the story without having to add sequels.
I'd like some movies too.
Mauri Well frankly that sucks cause FF15 could really use some sequels.
Cerberus might be one of Ifrits messengers
I could buy that
James Badeker makes sense. Also, I love how it was the same design as the FFVIII version, just way more detailed.
I love these videos. Your enthusiasm is infectious and its fun to hear these theories while we wait for more story DLC.
The think reason Ardyn killed Luna is simple, he didn't want her to make more covenants for Noctis. They blatantly said 3 of the gods were dead in the game, killed by the Empire. This leads me to believe Luna had to power as an oracle to reincarnate the gods. This would explain why Gentianna was able to become the new host of Shiva, being a holy messenger. However, the 3 gods that are dead would have to be Shiva, Bahamut, and Ifrit. If Ardyn led the fight against those 3 gods, I don't see him being a messenger of Ifrit at all. It would make no sense to kill the god you're aligned to, even for Ardyn. Especially since we basically see him summon Ifrit's new host himself. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but that was Nyx, which explains the burnt arm. Why else did we find his daggers in the city on a psychomancer. I don't think Bahamut actually was killed, wounded perhaps, but I think he retreated into the crystal to heal. As well, Gentianna was the first oracle, and the king receiving the crystal was Ardyn, which he got from Bahamut. Ardyn was betrayed by his brother Izunia when he consumed to many daemons, and lost his shit. The blood line continued to the present ending in Regis and Noctis. This was much longer than 13 kings though. Noctis' full name is Noctis Lucis Caelum CXIV, meaning he is the 114th generation of Lucian blooded rulers.
Now on to the summons, because you got 2 summons fairly early on, and then Leviathan in Altissia. I don't think Titan died during your fight with him, I think he wanted you to prove yourself worthy, before submitting. We can clearly see he didn't leave a corpse and he faded into earth energy(I can only assume), to be absorbed by Noctis. We can't confirm a Leviathan corpse or lack there of sadly, but we can't disprove it didn't do the same thing Titan did, test Noctis. Luckily Ramuh freely gave his power, or we would have had one hell of a fight, way too early in the game.
Titan went well because we had magitek backup. It was a fight stacked in our odds to stand up to a god. By the time we reached Altissia, Noctis had come more into his own powers. He was ready to fight a god, even if Luna had to call the royal arms from the tombs for him. His body was able to handle the power long enough to pass Leviathan's test, even if he did go into coma like state for a short while afterwards.
The jab Ardyn took at Gentianna was more aimed her true self from the past in my opinion, when she was his oracle.
tl;dr The oracle has more powers than we know. Ardyn killed Ifrit and Shiva for sure. Ardyn is a dick.
What about the two old ladies? When you fight Adamantoise and you speak with everyone at the Crow Nest, both are talking in a table and one is dressed in white, the other in black. Reminded me so much of Pryna and Umbra (Maybe human forms?) Also Ezma (the one that gives you the keys for the vaults, white one) says to Noctis that she is the keeper of the eight seals. I don't believe she goes there by herself, obviously she teleports there since dungeons are dangerous. The other old lady, Kimya (the witch dressed in black) she spokes in a very legendary way in "The Witch in the Woods" quest similar to Gentiana. Hope this helps :)
Square Enix needs to put you in their writers room.
Thank you for putting so much hard work into your videos, they are very entertaining to watch.
We want more! your vids give us so much more info on the actual story that we just couldn't get from the game. keep this stuff coming!
I actually clapped my hands when you said "Nyx Ulric"
I love the guy and always thought that was more to him than meets the eye.
The kupo in the end of this video is the best one by far.
It's called a moogle. Please actually play a real final fantasy game.
He says KUPO in the end of the video right?
every fucking moogle says kupo!!! There's no such thing as a kupo!! It's a moogle!! Clearly you haven't "kupo" or you'd know they're called moogles "kupo" and that all moogles say kupo "kupo''.
duh
so many ff n00bs on here that know nothing and are all pretenders. especially with a name about "lightning" when ff13 was the worst ff of all time lmfao
At the end of the video pez says Kupo, I was talking about that.
Sue Lightning right, which is a moogle reference. because that's what moogles say.
man I love the way you tell things and explain. I had so many questions, you answered them all! Thank you!
I prepared myself and still got mind blowned xD
Nice work Pez!
Wow, thanks for this video Peas!
To add to your comment in the translation at 6:58, in the Japanese version Ardyn also says "That was the beautiful face you had when you were killed, too--" *iced*
Comparing versions, it seems the English version was the most vague when describing Shiva/Gentiana's relationship.
That's a damn epic video Pes! Thank you :)
Finally my Gentiana and Pryna queries are closed! :D Wiew! Pryna especially was bugging me for a while too - would've helped if I read this Ultimania stuff!
Epic Omen Trailer connection/speculations you've mentioned there - Finally a more solid confirmation that that was it's purpose! Wiew.
This game just got 100 times deeper, again! Things are connecting amazingly - Bloody love it.
Pes this is huge, and damn awesome - My ever continuing excitement and love of this game just grew even more, again :P
Great choice in music throughout this whole video too!
Eeeh thanks Keegan. I had to solve the riddle for you as your our team Gentiana :P
That's my fave bit I think. How much it added to Gentiana's character. She made a real sacrifice and had her own identity. I suppose it goes to explain why she wasn't there in kingsglaive aswell. Gentiana grew up with Luna and likely had very close feeling for Luna. Shiva didn't have those.
Pretty sad and profound. Does Luna know she lost her closest friend?
Exactly Pes! It's so painful, but it's so damn strong.
Does Luna know? At this point it could be that she would be aware - considering her strength and resolve she has as a character.. Some of it could be in her own understanding of what she herself is (a messenger) 'her calling fulfilled' she maaay have somehow been aware of Gentiana's situation too? If so, it's like a slow torture for Luna knowing of Gentiana's sacrifice and of her own soon to come, in another way... Uh :,(
Or maybe she just didn't know, and we could just be more sad for the two of them..for Gentiana... No.. :'(
The official guide officially connects gentiana and shiva being one in the same since ever.... 9/10 your points are theorized inconsistencies
And the same guide lists ardyn as ifrits servant
Except Gentiana and Shiva haven't been the same since forever lol. Shiva literally only woke up 11 years ago... and was an ice giantess... while at the same time Gentiana was watching Luna. This is all confirmed.
There is no refuting it.
It even states Gentiana is a sent 'apostle'. Not really sure if you've watched the vid because this isn't a speculative or theorized point.
Also let's not talk about the 'guide'. It is so old and innacurate that the ultimania trumps it 100%. It doesn't even reference Clarus' name properly.
Final Fantasy Peasant if gen reveals herself as shiva, her presence during the past 11 years doesn't refute anything... you're saying gentiana therefore was a woman who seemingly took on shivas everything when in fact she simply just "reveals" her true form. Ardyn recognizes her as the goddess... by stating he knows her appearance when he fell her. That's in the game... there's no trying to look deeper in theories or un confirming sources. That giant you see that's down...that just shows you her giant form from long ago...the snow storm happens because she sneakily is around as to make her appearance as gen just as she's been for some time.. and the guides you say are wrong, are taken from the actual compositions plot entirely... it doesn't have anything that was revised...simply same entity..alias appearance
Again. "Gentiana is a beautiful APOSTLE sent by the gods" -FFXV Ultimania
Do you know what apostle and sent mean?
The only illustrated page of the Cosmogony book we see pictures Gentiana AND the woman on the cover together.
Gentiana is a winged messenger escorted by Umbra and Pryna and the Oracle (aka the woman with the trident) is standing next to who's either Ardyn or Izunia (or whatever the 'jealous king' is called)
They're clearly 2 different people.
If anyone is curious about that flying creature on the red sky scene, just so you know.. that thing is actually in the game and its flying around Gralea in Chapter 13
XxHelterSkelterxX O_o
damit all
Hey man, just want to say thanks for the videos, it really fills in my plot shaped hole in my heart up
Peasant that vid was awesome, you shed light on so many unexplained points. And I can't believe that the bodies hung up were real, but it makes alot more sense. I also believe that in the omen trailer the black dog at the end represented Ardyn. This is because until Luna was killed by Ardyn in the game, the player (and noctis) didn't know who's side Ardyn was on. And in the trailer Pryna turned into the black dog right after Noctis killed Luna. So in the trailer Ardyn straight up used Noctis to kill Luna, and he was probably able to do so becuase Noctis didn't have his friends (for all we know Ardyn made Luna look like someone else just like he did with Prompto). But in the game he knew Noctis would have done anything to protect Luna (and he also had his friends), so he first introduced himself as a friend and guided Noctis to Altissia. Then when Noctis was weak from the leviathan fight he was able to easily kill Luna.
lol! love the thomas the train reference. keep up all the good work. i love your channel. I would definitely love to see theory videos on some of the older games too.
14 swords land from Bahamut. from 18:30-18:33 you see another sword hit in the background by the lamppost after Ifrit does his flip. I couldn't hear the #4 off screen touch down, even in slow motion, but if it's there, then the total is 14
Oh man! This is what I'm subscribed to you for! Juicy theory videos!!
@18:30 when you go to say 12 swords landed a 13th sword lands behind ifirit along with the sword he is holding making 14
This story is much deeper than I ever thought. Thanks for all of these videos!
I dont know why but watching your videos feels like a part of the FFXV Universe, the story feels better with your theories
That trailer of the chef killing Ultros? Probably Titan in disguise.
Pfffffft nice one dude.
LOL! x'D
MercilessV
Cuts, dev time, pressure from higher ups, also the fact that Nyx killed him? It would be an insult to Nyx's sacrifice to leave him alive after all that.
MercilessV Go rewatch the movie. Glauca die before Nyx while watching sunrise.
Great Video!!! Hope you consider making a part 2. Would love to hear your thoughts on the rest of the 24 messangers.
Kind of blindsided me with this theory vid... I love it!
This game clearly has hidden depths and I thank you for showing me things I would never see on my own. Heres hoping the dlc dives head first into the lore behind this epic story :D
this video of yours just added so much more depth to the game for me, thank you.
Great Video dude, your theories are always well thought out and backed up with evidence. An interesting video would be what is the driving force behind each summon, as Shiva loves humanity and wants to protect it whereas Ifrit wants total chaos and such. Makes you wonder what levithan, titan and ramuhs, etc true intentions were. Does feel sometimes that backstory on the summons/gods wasn't as fleshed out as they usually would be. In every Final Fantasy the summons backstory always explained even to the minor summon like Carby.
But regardless Brill Video!
Awesome theory peasant! Though I woulden't mind or be surprised if all of this is there for us to find and speculate upon. But ultimately isen't more than just very vaguely hinted at in the upcoming dlc :) Very much like the ending as Tabatha has explained in an interview before. Anyway, keep up the great work!
27:42 about Ifrit's burned arm. (According to Kingsglaive) only three people ever put the ring on, and all 3 have had the same arm set ablaze. Revis, Lunafreya's brother, Nyx, as shown during the battle against the general, and Luche, one of the Glaives. Nyx, you listed as a messenger to Bahamut, maybe Luche or Revis were servants of Ifrit?
Loved the video, honestly I'm in love with the game's story & can't wait to see what the DLC brings.
I didn't know Ardyn's line wasn't complete in the english version . . . but then, I played the game with german subtitles and it does fit; you can even hear him form the "d" of "died" when he got frozen. but yeah, the subs clearly spelt it out.
Amen.
Bloody hell, I thought I had found a lot when I sent you my theories but you found even more xD
If Luna became a goddess, does that mean Noct and the bros are her Messengers according to the Genesis artwork?
I love you so much, I've been following your videos for a long time and I appreciate your work, Greetings from Spain.
DUDE!!! I'm speechless after watching all 30min speculation. please don't stop, half more to go!
You must be one clever guy to putting together all these clues. These videos blow me away. I wish some of these informations were IN the game though...
That part where you explained the German version says "the day you... DIED" is quite scary. When did Shiva/Gentiana die? I'd like to see it on a timeline.
Was this Ultimania book assembled before the story changes? It feels like the Ultimania lays out the story and the rest is for the development team to stuff into the game. But the story got many changes during development, yet the Ultimania still has the bits and bobs. At least those infos can fuel speculations and theory videos like this. Great job!
the official guide has the time line in it; it was 11 years prior to the game, so only recently in the game lore. And as someone who played the game in german (at least the subs; the dub kinda sucks) I can confirm the line. . . I was wondering why he didn't knew that earlier.
Amen, amen, amen :) Preach! Idk if the "24 messenger" idea will come to fruition, but the hit list on the Tenebrae family/Shiva is perfect ;) Ardyn is a BAMF! The dynamic btw Bahamut, Shiva and Ifrit makes sense, the other three are just kind of thrown in there :/ I hope they expand on the game's backstory with DLC, love to explore the time when Ardyn was the healer; I need to know who Izunia is!! lol
Holyyy crap. Incredible theory video.. That bit with Ardyn hunting down Shiva's messengers is sooooo interesting. Wow. F... I wish all of this was in the actual game.
research was done, presentation was well delivered, sound theories, Respect! :)
21:27 wasn't one of the things that was cut out was that Cor was supposed to be Bahumt's human form, similar to how gentiana was shiva's human form?
as always love the throes you present bud. The armiger weapons I think I may have a sort of explanation. I haven't counted or really looked into this but regis might nt have all the weapons, Noctis on the other hand HAD to get every weapon available, this was because bahamas stated that for Noctis to banish Arden once and for all he need the providence which was essentially all the crystals light, this is why he needed all the astrals, and the weapons because the astrals and the weapons were physical manifestations of the crystal and thus held light within them, so the fact that Not needed all the worlds light may be why he had to go collect them all compared to Regis who only needed a few for power and went to the easily accessible room
The story could have been a lot better but it felt so rushed. Tbh I wouldn't mind a directors cut edition...lol where they fixed all the damn story problems.
Congratulations Peasant! For the increase in popularity mate
you make me love this game more than i do now thanks for the theoris , greetings from chile my friend
oh yeah,you really have a point!and it is really cool,the story gets interesting more and more...as soon as i do my ng+ i will have eyes open to every clue for the messanger of the gods
I seriously love all your theories! Thank you dude
To add on the Bahamut theory. When you summon him and the camera does a close up to his face, you can see his blue eyes and black hair.
Kinda like the Lucis family bloodline. Maybe him giving them his power also gave them his traits as well?
english translations are mostly so different from the original or even german ones. *looking at FFX*
i also think one of the reasons why Lunas body was weak, is simply because she was talking to the gods, the rites, convincing the gods that noctis is the chosen king. i mean we all saw that leviathan attacked Luna when she tried to convince her/him/it.
Dino was a messenger of Titan, the earth god. You had to find gems, so that makes sense. Cindy was a messenger as well, I think. Both sent you on quests, both became serious about you undertaking these quests at some point. I remember Prompto bringing this up once after you accept a quest from Dino.
16:25 does anyone have a link to the clip that shows that trailer?
I dont know if messangers necessairily have to know they are messangers, but if they dont...
Gladiolus could be a messenger of Titan, thus giving more significance to the fact that he leads noctis through his encounter with Titan, and why he is shown to be able to block one of Titans blows.
Ignis could be a messanger of Ramuh. Putting on the ring causes Ignis to go blind and Ramuh seems to be a judge or represent justice (his attack is judgement bolt). This may symbolise the idea of justice being blind.
I tried to think of a way prompto could be a messanger as well but I couldn't
18 views in under a minute. you're more popular now 😉
sorry, that was just me checking 18 times that no audio or scenes had failed to upload ;) :P
116 views now:D Pez is Popular :D
Nearly 25k subs id say he is very popular :P Come a long way has our Pezzy
Very much so 😀So proud of PEZ 😃
Oh Peasant! About Cor, from the beginning of the game he told Noctis that there were Thirteen Royal Tombs in all, but later on in the game we receive two of the Armiger Weapons from Shiva/Gentiana and the other from Ravus. What would you make of this?~ I've been trying to piece something together but I've got nothing!~
Could it be possible that the number of swords and armiger weapons are Easter eggs to 13 versus?
No it's because it's for KoTR from VII which is made up of 13 knights.
Also when the Crystal/Bahamut/lucii said that they were only looking forward to one more death there either referring to Noctis (The human sacrifice meant to get rid of the star scourge) or Ardyn (The stars scourge itself)
Theory:
Ifrit for some reason, went against the will of the other gods. Seeing as Ifrit's messenger (with the burnt arm) was possibly the current user of the rung of Lucii, Bahamut retaliated by making the ring reject him hence the burnt arm. Out of rage Ifrit probably fought one or more gods, leading to his death. To survive he transferred to his messenger's body.
Side theory:
We know Ifrit was not entirely against humanity in the beginning but something led him to bring the star scourge to Eos. I theorize that one of his messengers (replaced afterwards by Ardyn) fought against another messenger for personal reasons (Probably Bahamut's messenger replaced by Nyx). Both killing each other, leading to Ifrit's rebellion.
At the end of the game when Noctis says "kings of Lucis ... come to me" you see a short clip of the spirits gathering at the top of the tower, but you see a spirit Bahamut on the top. I think Bahamut is all of the former kings combined, witch is why his attack is "Ultima Sword" and there being 13, maybe he was only manifested after Regis died?
6:06 Exactly..first incarnation. It is very obvious the woman that we know as the Messenger of Luna mostly likely is the second. You don't just get immortal just like that and she probably took on the next re-incarnation of Shiva. So i would dare to argue they are both. Or the woman that existed way back when does no longer exist. Only her body does. But even then Shiva would have all her knowledge so taken on her personality would not be that hard of a feat. But since Shiva is a force of good i am going with that she simply became one with her. The thing is how i know she was Shiva is not because the obvious fact she turned into her. But the fact she kept her eyes closed the whole time. This is something very unique to the actual Goddess Shiva and her natural counterpart Kali. And yes this game borrows heavily from Greek Mythology. So the body,her first reincarnation she left behind refers to the Titans. Who existed before the Gods. Of course they have to make it fit somehow changing it here and there.
Man your video is so mind blown! After watching, this sparks my guess on the possible messengers could be side quest related that lead/guide Noctis and team in various way:
Titan - Dino, Dave ( retrieve dog tags fallen to Earth), Vyn ( taking ""Landscape"" pictures), The chocobo guy ( chocobo provides land transport)
Ramuh - the lady from Lestallum power plant sidequest that ask u to fix stuff like the electric cable
Leaviathan - the fisherman quest ( Pre-order bonus lure was even called "Leaviathan'"), the frog lady quests
Bahamut - Ezma? ( locked up strong daemons & gave the keys to strong ruins which also give us the best end-game weapons)
Just my 2-cents guess after watching your vid and can't remember these side quest character's name as I hardly touch them. Now i'm gonna go and complete those side quests =D Thanks for your vid and wonderful theory!!
This is amazing! Good Job! :)
I think Aranea might be one of messengers too. She was really powerful in terms of the battles and then, later in the game, she always appears for your aid as you need it. And she was kinda displeased to work with the empire but I think she was doing it to keep an eye on Ardyn from closeby.
Something tells me that they're not done the story just yet. They might make a sequel set in the afterlife.
Justin Alon thats a rumor said by the same guy who leaked the story 6 months prior to release. So be prepared dear noctis to show your true character , the hakf demon half human.
Kyzaia I am hoping to do just that. Let's just hope soon and not in another 10 years this time around.
They said the ending of the game is up to the player. What ever you think happened happen. They want to leave it open to us. They have a lot of stuff they can do for prequels. Like Regis, Ardyn, Cor, heck they can even give us some stuff to fill that 10 year gap during when ardyn took over. There so much they can still do for this game to make it even more amazing than it already is!!!
Who is they and when did they say that? Because the ending isn't open up for anything.
Noctis sacrifices himself goes to the afterlife with his wife. Everyone else lives a peaceful life in a new world without demons. That's it.
Tabata came out and said there's no right or wrong answer on what you think happened at the end of the game. I agree with what you said happened at the end of the game but others might think differently. For instance when everyone was next noctis to do the final blow to ardyn. A lot of people think there all dead but I completely disagree. Or the fire scene after the credits. Some people think that is in the after life also. Once again though i disagree with that also because that scene is right before you make the assault on Lucis. Apparently they want to leave it to whatever you think as a player but to me its pretty clear what they where aiming for.
AMEN, randomly stumbled across your videos and now I’m completely obsessed..... just need a video about why Promto is so damn special lmao
The only problem that i see with your theory about Astral projection into messengers bodies, and that's why Ifrit is smaller too, is that well, Titan, Ramuh and Leviathan are also killed (or so I think at least), yet they are all still gigantic. But really thrilling video overall, I enjoyed it. Aside from that inconsistency, I still believe your theory was spot on and that Ifrit is projected in a messenger's body, due to the burnt hand, but I still believe that size doesn't really matter unless the 3 previously mentioned Astrals haven't really died.
I don't have access to my game at the moment to double check but I went through and counted a couple of weeks ago and I found that there are exactly 24 named, non-party characters who assign quests. Whether they are implied to be messengers or just part of Square Enix's regular obsession with mirrored numerology, I can't say.
Regardless, great video. Love the theories.
I think, by the end of the game, the gods have left Eos. The Daemons are gone, the Fleuret and Caelum bloodlines are ended; it would make sense in the narrative that gods are no longer interfering with the fate of humanity.
IMO, Noctis not only had to take the powers of his ancestors, but also of the gods to defeat Arden. When Noctis died, he took the gods with him to the afterlife.
Kingsglaive: There was a huge monster with tentacles. I thought it was Orthros but maybe it was Kraken who was going after Luna.
Meldacio: They are no ordinary hunters. Ezma IS some sort of a keeper, who has the key for the secret dungeons. Also end-game you will see that they brought significant amount of information about Starscourge. And Sania MAY be one of them
Kimya: Do you remember the Runes on the Havens? She was supposedly one of those who makes these Runes repelling the daemons.
Randolph: The blacksmith who makes you legendary weapons. A messenger of Bahamut, Astral of Swords?
Also, I really hope you'll read this because I want your opinion on it: I think Bahamut was once a chosen King of Lucis, we knew that he was once a king of lucis, but not a chosen one, just like Noctis, and had the same purpose or a similar one. Why ? My assumption of this idea is based on two facts: First you can see eyes through Bahamut helmet, and this IS a helmet, that alone is a pretty huge detail when you think about it, it's a person inside some kind of godly dragon armor, in my opinion it strenghtens the idea of a person ascended to an Astral/God. And secondly, and that my friend, you almost got it covered entirely in this video, you have the fact that he unleash 13 swords just like Noctis's Armiger AND the animation of Bahamut's Ultima Sword is alsmost exaclty the same as Noctis when he unleash the final blow against Leviathan and Ardyn when he uses the power of the chosen king, the swords positioning, the arms, play them side by side and see for yourself ! Tell me what you think about it Peas :) Sorry for my english, not my native x)
I love this guy! I have never seen someone get so excited to talk about story lines lol
Woah....you just blew my mind. This makes me wonder if Noctis and Luna-Freya were both taken over at the end of the game just like Shiva took over Gentiana by the gods given the epilogue after the credits. I love this game with its plot holes! I really think they did this intentionally to immerse yourself in the characters and the world.
Actually, 13 Swords landed in that Bahamut Scene, one was without audio however, specifically right behind Ifrit when he's about to deflect Bahamut's sword.
That´s really insane! We so much need some confirmation from SE, at least some about all those theories.
My further guess
1. Starting with Noctis himself. I know he is the chosen one blabla but in fact he can understand and talk to the gods. I think that makes him to a messenger aswell; my guess is bahamut.
2. Sania the crazy froglady. Gladio know her, so many sidequests, she is like everywhere. Frogs > rainy weather > lightning > rahmu!
3. Dave from hunter hq. Like Sania; so many quests and he is also everywhere in seconds. His mentality kind of reminds me of Titan
4. Definitely Ezma...don´t know where to put her though.
It's great listening to this lore video to try and figure out possible explanations, but it really does help really drive that nail in further about how much was cut from this game lol
I was expecting the one I read from reddit. Like Dino is Carbuncle (they look the same, and communicates via phone!), Wiz is the Fat Chocobo, Vyv is the Phoenix, etc etc.
6:12 I need to know the exact location of that.For research purpose.
omfg keep on doing this video man! i love them
im calling it. Cor is a former king of Lucis. he uses a katana, one of the armiger weapons is a katana, he's apparently immortal, and apparently its very well possible hes a messenger of Bahamut. hell i bet his story spans other games as well just under different names.
Boy, I think that lich carrying the kukris of nyx is also a messenger of Ifrit, makes sense because Ifrit is sitting on the throne of Chaos yada yada yada ... I know some will say, "if he were a messenger, Ifrit would have come back to life from it, as it only appears after we kill Ifrit "but I do not think that the process of return to life from a messenger is instant, and perhaps even had a limit to this, remember It is known that they are becoming weaker every time that they "reincarnate" in a messenger .... more importantly, that lich, he was carrying the kukris of Nyx, WHY? There's something about that Lich, I'm sure of it. Why the hell it only appeared after Ifrit died? (I dunno, perhaps to avenge his master)... This can not be a coincidence guys, I'm Brazilian so sorry for the bad grammar.
Dino for Titan (cause of precious rock obsession)
Old lady who give you the dungeon seal key for Post game for Bahamut (because you learn after u finish all of them she tells Noct the he just finished a promise made by his father)
Fishing quest guy for Leviathan (cause water related)
Ariana for Ravatah (cause he throws his staff and she jumps up really high and throws her spear/lance)
Its crazy how theory crafting for this game can actually be a full time job....needing 100s of hours of game play and 100s of hours of research.
Sorry I didn't have time to read over 600 comments to make sure this wasn't said already. I noticed some dialogue lines from Cor on my NG+ playthrough in the Tomb tutorial section. You were asking why Regis has weapons and if the tombs had been found. Cor mentions that no Lucian king in recent history has found ALL of the tombs. That would explain why Regis does not have 13 weapons in Brotherhood. In Kingsglaive he uses more than 13 though and can also apparently generate an unlimited amount simultaneously for the Kingsglaive. So short version, Cor implies that he himself came to those two previously with Regis, which is why he knows where they are. He also implies that their discovery had something to do with the battle. This line came up when Prompto mentioned the sandbags and supply crates piled up outside the first tomb. Cor says they discovered it by using it for shelter during the battle.
Maybe Ifrit's mastery over Ardyn is a result of the scourge, not a deliberate choice. Either that or Ardyn turned to Ifrit after doing all the work he did and then got rejected by the rest of the hexatheon. Or maybe a bit of both.
By furthering his own ends, he does what Ifrit desired and turned the world to ruin...but he also spurred Noctis into ruining Ifrit's plans in the end by making sure he became the king of light. Ardyn got his revenge on the Five, the remnant Lucis Caelum house, his own release from endless suffering and eternal torment in the form of forced servitude to the dark, and a massive F you to Ifrit all at the same time.
Sly-ception indeed
Hey Peasant! In regards to Cor possibly being a messenger of Bahamut, did you know that the Crownsguard insignia is actually an image of Bahamut with 13 swords? I thought that would be an interesting aspect to share with you in case you didn't know it! It definitely gives the theory some extra support. Also, great videos man, keep it up! :D
One question if there were more tombs with weapons that were lost what happens to the lucii associated with those weapons do they disappear too?
thank you for filling the gap ffxv left for me :(
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As to why Regis has Armiger weapons: He likely didn't go to all the same tombs as Noctis. He's the 113th King of Lucis, and each previous king could well have left tombs with Armiger weapons.
Cool theory, I think your really on to something! The Gods to me are the true villains in this story as everything bad seems to stem from their influence. I wish the game had touched on that a bit more