Antiquities | The Resleevables #3 | Magic: The Gathering History MTG
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ค. 2024
- Cedric Phillips and Patrick Sullivan are here for their deep dive on Magic's second expansion - Antiquities!
The duo dissect Magic's first artifact-based set, with their thoughts on how much of a risk making this type of set was this early in the game's lifespan, why Millstone and Ornithopter were ahead of their time, and how the creation of Strip Mine isn't the correct way to address a problematic land like Library of Alexandria.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
2:15 Facts
13:58 Lore
20:33 Mechanics
30:16 Cycles
37:43 Misprints
1:14:49 Awards Show
1:33:06 Final Grade
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Sponsors:
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Credits:
Directed by: Jonathan Choi
Produced by: Cedric Phillips and Jonathan Choi
Edited by: Jonathan Choi
Written by: Cedric Phillips and Patrick Sullivan
Graphics by: Ray Dill
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Information sourced from MagicTheGathering.com, TheSideboard.com, MTGWiki.com and numerous conversations with previous and current Magic players
#theresleevables #mtg #podcast #magicthegathering #commander #mtgcommander #mtgstandard #mtgmodern #mtglegacy #mtgvintage #mtghistoric #mtgalchemy - เกม
![Was Crump About To Defeat Téa? [Freeze Play]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JZ9zNSWaAMA/mqdefault.jpg)
Ornithopter's latter-day flavor text has always delighted me because it's about the card both within the lore of the game and the place it holds in the game itself. Just like every developing artificer invents the ornithopter, every developing magic player invents a deck to put it in. It's such a great moment of discovery and excitement when you first see ornithopter and the gears start turning, and almost every player has had it! I've always been really charmed by that little quirk of the flavor text.
This show somehow manages to be both incredibly professional, but still feels like you're hanging out in a living room with both of you. Amazing job.
couldn't say it better
This is one of the best shows on the internet. Much like Patrick, Revised was the first set I *really* got into, so I can't wait for the next episode.
Cedric's reaction to Patrick's dry humor will forever be one of my favorite things on this mortal plane
I love that Patrick basically designed the Urzatron creatures from Brothers War off the top of his head.
which cards do you mean? haven't kept up with the new sets that closely, I'm curious.
@@makingnoises2327 Three cards from Brothers War, Power Plant Worker, Tower Worker, and Mine Worker. Mine and Tower tap for life and mana respectively while Power Plant has an activated ability for a temporary boost. When they're all on the field at the same time, Power Plant gets +1/+1 counters instead and Tower taps for the three mana you need to buff him.
It's a cool reference to the old cards that's interesting in limited but probably underpowered for anything else.
@@ZanderEzekial77 The Power Plant Worker sees occasional play in Pauper Tron. A 4/4 for 5 that can pump itself is decent enough for Pauper when you can dump Tron mana in to it. The full set is a bit too durdley.
Brothers War was released the year before this episode, wasn't it?
55:03 One note with Black Vise back in the day is that the original mulligan rule is that you could only get a new opening hand with all lands or no lands. And so if you opened up on a double Vise hand against someone who had to keep a one lander, it was an auto win.
Regarding Millstone, I played against someone in a tournament in 1995 with a good Millstone deck. Lots of defensive stuff like The Abyss and Forcefield. However, he was the last one to finish his matches and we weren’t playing with timed rounds. It was brutal.
It's interesting to me that they do the John Avon land art award and not just a general art award. I feel like there are a lot of non land cards that deserve to get an award! Love the show by the way!
I miss the old Upper Deck stories but I'm glad to see that the boys are back in town!
Bronze Tablet is a Shandalar MVP. What better way to get to your dream deck sooner, not even Demonic Attorney can compare!
I do feel like we're in the era of playing against cards we've never seen before again but only because there's so many cards printed a year lol
Seriously, this is true
People forget how revolutionary the milling mechanic was. Brilliant episode. Thank you.
Regarding 1:24:30 -- Mark Rosewater is on record as saying that, incredibly, he designed Tinker as a streamlined version of Transmute Artifact, a card he always liked but found awfully complicated. This is a reminder of why Mark Rosewater doesn't work in Play Design.
I believe he was also responsible for doing the exact same thing with Yawgmoth’s Bargain. Necropotence has so many words and restrictions. Blah, blah, blah; just make it simple!
mark has the (dis)honor of having designed the most number of banned/restricted or broken cards in the games history
Ornithopter is one of those cards that when it was reprinted as a part of the brothers war retros i was super excited for because i play a esper affinity deck for historic in arena. It really goes to show how well designed so many of those cards were that they can still do work today, granted only in specific cases. Its so great getting into a game and seeing an Ornithopter in your opening hand when you run a deck that cares about artifacts. Its like being wrapped in a warm blanket for someone who played way back in the day but lost interest and is getting back into the game more recently.
Ayy I literally just got into magic like 2 weeks ago. I'm loving this series doods.
The history of magic is so interesting
This series is a very interesting watch! I'm curious about the final comments about lack of difference between the two brothers - but it does say something about the war. The name itself, "Antiquities", and quite a few flavor texts, suggest a point of view from some distant future, when the conflict is already a history, difficult to piece together (Grapeshot Catapult). The Brothers' War was truly devastating, a pointless conflict between people who could have been close to one another, which escalated with dire, long-lasting results. Doesn't matter what they were fighting for or believed in - everybody and everything lost because of their careless actions.
i assumed it was called antiquities because the war was fought with and over thran relics. teenage mishra nd urza started as archeologists and all the technology used in the war was either powered by thran powerstones or thran machines themselves.
Yeah I can't help but feel like they went into this set assuming it was depicting _the war,_ as in on-going, with comments like "yeah it's a set about a war but not everything has to be a big tank", and I'm just like...okay so do you guys just think the Brother's War set is a _remake?_ Like it's just "the war, but again!"? The whole point of Brother's War is that we _didn't_ see the war firsthand! Because Antiquities was all about us _piecing it together_ through the artifacts that the war left!
As another old man thats been playing this game forever, this show gives me some sweet nostalgia, keep it up guys. Miss your coverage every weekend!
Loved the anecdote about Garfield, and your chemistry is great.
As an aside Candelabra did have a home in mana flare decks, which were a favorite in my area at the time.
Love the chemistry between you two! No team to better walk us through the history of the game than y'all! Keep up the outstanding work!
Also, with candelabra a lot of folks had mana flare fireball decks back then - so if they could get candelabra, you'd see them.
The infographic for the Randy Aspland-Faith misprint refers to him as a her. He just can't catch a break.
Actual Gatherer ruling that's still on Bronze Tablet from 2004 - You can’t choose to pay 10 life if you have less than 10 life, but you may choose to give up the game immediately. This has roughly the same effect.
Candelabra paired well with Mana Flare created the ability to get so much mana. It was core to my five color deck that I used to power out Djinns/Dragons, infinite turns, and large fireballs.
I guess you guys didn;t have that swamp dark ritual hymn to tourach, vampire bats guy in your group
@@Blackadder75, no I didn't. They played swamp, black vise, swamp, dark ritual, juggernaut.
Best show on TH-cam, filling the void that was the best commentary due to ever do it (all sports included). So glad you're back.
According to edhrec's sorting, Ashnod's Altar is the top card from the set.
I can confirm from my own edh games that it's an absurdly potent value piece that can transition into an infinite combo engine at the drop of a hat.
Triskellion being the OG walking ballista is cool!
It’s nickname is “Trike”
The ornithopter discussion makes me wonder, is it the first non-Alpha card that one could consider a perfect design?
Maybe Juzam djinn?
Patrick Sullivan, the most avid Matter Resharper enjoyer
They clapped at the Commander players!!!! 🙌🙌🙌🙌
Another point about Millstone: in the 90s, many players (incorrectly) thought milling was good even if you weren't going for a milling victory. You'd just put some Millstones in your creature deck, expecting to mill over some great cards so your opponent could never draw them. Not only in 1994 either! Two years after Antiquities, I remember people at my LGS whispering about the new card Vision Charm and how busted it was to mill four cards for only one mana. They played it for face value in unrelated decks. "Ha ha, I got your Erhnam Djinn!" etc. Hilarious.
The only other card that was common, uncommon, and rare is Balduvian Horde. Started as a rare, got reprinted at uncommon a few years back, and then finally to common in M25.
i just discovered this page thru this video and man i'm stoked. Finally OGs who looks at the game history without the obvious fanfare, drama and just plain objective take on the game, more importantly, a deep dive on the sets that began this whole thing. Thank You!
Love the new iteration of the show. All 3 eps so far have been bangers! Looking forward to Revised.
Just found the channel and series. Love it, cant wait for Tempest
I really appreciate the perspective of the time these sets were released. Super interesting stuff.
One interesting thing about Colossus of Sardia is it's sort of a precursor to the Epic mechanic.
Do you know that KC Green comic page where the guy is frustrated and has his arms crossed, and then he just throws them up and shouts "I GUESS"?
That's me reading this comment.
57:05 very much agree. Would also be personally curious about hearing more about the competitive scene and the set’s impact of it
I grew up in the late 2000s and early 2010s and mostly played competitive YGO, so i missed out on all this stuff lol. Goated show
The Feldon's Cane anagram mistake was rectified in a later set, but I'm not going to spoil it for anyone. :)
Always look forward to another episode of this releasing - can't wait to watch it! It's been really interesting as someone relatively new to Magic - I've already learnt so much about early Magic, thanks for taking the time to put these together :)
I still get that feeling of seeing cards for the first time as my opponent plays it. I play Arena (cheaper and easier) and don't look at spoilers or whatever before or after the set release. I do mostly see new cards by opening packs but still get to see new ones while playing. When I open packs I not only take time to read the cards but also try to see if I can add it to one of my decks and not just searching for specific cards. It's the closest I can get to reliving the experience I had from the mid 90's to mid 00's when I could only use the cards I had.
Apparently R&D thinks Mishra’s Factory is too strong for standard, that’s why they created Mishra’s Foundry for the Brothers’ War set
It's not too strong. But much like Smugglers Copter it is strong enough that being colorless leads to it becoming ubiquitous and homogenizing the format. Also, it secretly being a 3/3 on blocks just plays badly for newer players.
Bronze Tablet was my favorite card when I first got into the game. It just seemed like such a bizarre and powerful item. It changed ownership. This was an artifact of terrifying and unknowable power.
Say you miss playing for ante without actually saying it. (Great card though).
@@chazzanschutz6096 I never played for ante, so I don't miss playing for ante. I just miss being 14. :P
I had no idea Sage of Lat-Nam was so old!!! I thought I had uncovered a sweet unknown uncommon for my EDH artifact deck xD
The extreme artifact-focused design concept would have been totally appropriate for a board game expansion, which I imagine is what they were thinking of at the time, games like Talisman. It could still work in something like a Fantasy Flight LCG. It's just a bad fit for a randomized product.
the drawback wasn't so big, because almost nobody bought these packs from the shop, since they were so rare, and people who bought, just bought like 5-10 packs (maybe they wanted to buy more, but the shop only got 2 cases instead of the 20 they ordered, so they limited it to 10 per customer.)
so the randomness was less of a factor, and soon antiquities were sold out and spread out over all peoples and traders collections and it was a very fun set to browse over on the internet (WHICH did exist despite Cedric and Patrick not on it yet) or for more people through early magazines which had colored pictures of all cards. so you could just think of all the possibilities and then just buy or trade for the cards you needed. Basically the random factor is not a factor when 95% of your player base only gets to get the cards on the non random 2nd market.
I was always a fan on the resleevables I'm so glad it's back
46:12 I love Patrick's point here. People didn't only become good at Magic in 2019, and he illustrates that point beautifully here
been enjoying this show enough that I've occasionally listened to the old version to make up for the gaps in your schedule
I've been replaying the Shandalar game because these episodes make me so nostalgic.
Great episode. One of my favorite new TH-cam channels
Cannot say too often how wonderful it is to have the two of you back. Thank yall.
This series is ridiculously good
Thank you guys for spending the time to give folks a comprehensive understanding of the old sets.
Best (non-cube) MTG podcast by a country mile :D great to see it back
what is the best cube podcast?
@@omegaduckie whichever your favorite is, cube is whatever you want it to be :P
Absolutely loving this series, so cool to see all the insight into the old sets! Can't wait for the next one :)
Been waiting for this. Thank you for doing these reviews. I can't wait for the dark episode. Awful cards but for me great flavor and memories.
Sullivan with the one of one - they really are professionals. Great ep you guys
Outstanding serie so far. Keep up the great work !
Loving the show so far!!!
been loving these, so cool to get a look back at these sets, can't wait to see how it progresses now that you're getting into the sets you started with
Thunder Totem, the creature it becomes is a Thunder Spirit, a rare from Legends.
Another great episode guys! You both have a lot of good chemistry, I like hearing the banter between you two!
Super excited that you’re doing Revised, because it means that you’re going to also someday do 4th, which wasn’t my first Magic product (that was Ice Age) but it was the most recent Core Set, and it holds a special place in my heart!
Absolutely love this show. I have been waiting for its return for a long time now! The only improvement I could think of is to read the cards being talked about. I know it's a video format now with graphics, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who has this on in the background or on their drive to and from work and not looking at the screen. Thank you guys for bringing it back and so happy to see y'all actually physically together!
I have very fond memories of the tron lands. When I started playing, chronicles had just come out. The people who taught me to play taught me that colorless mana could be used for anything. So we used the urza lands to play the most powerful cards we had, the elder dragon legends.
I've seen people twiddle colossus when it was a new card and played ivory towers in necro when that was a thing. Ah, lovely nostalgia!
There was a buyback program -- I have no idea how many people utilized it. However, the set was completable in a box, but it was luck dependent -- you got 120 cards off the uncommon sheet but there are 121 cards on the sheet. So if the one card missing was a U1, you didn't get the set, otherwise you did.
This is my favorite Magic content out there. I swore by the old podcast and am loving the new version. Some food for thought: when you get to sets that directly influenced other sets (return to planes, or in this instance Brothers War being a direct descendant of and homage to Antiquities) it might be really cool to break chronological set order to discuss them back-to-back while all the info is fresh. I'd love to hear you talk about brothers war right after antiquities, or the ravnica sets holistically, and be able to come at the modern designs with the OG information right beforehand!
I appreciate the idea, but think the linearity is good for keeping things in the context of their time. The next Return to... release would ruin the order. Also, I just don't want to hear 5 straight months of Ravnica.
It's extremely weird that they are bothering with a Revised episode though. Guess I'll trust the guys and see what it looks like.
can't imagine a better retrospective for newer players like me to learn more about the game. keep it up!
Greatest video podcast of all time and we’re three steps into at least a 100 step journey! Thank you!
All those totems are reserved list creatures!
Chronatog is not on the RL
@@CleazyMane-ef2cg google reserved list and Ctrl + f chronatog I know you will find it
Thanks guys! Looking forward to Revised, when I first played Magic!
Excited for the lore talk!
I look forward to this show more than you know! ❤😊
Triskelion got put into retirement by Walking Balista (which is strictly better), but I agree that it could come back as an uncommon, I think it would be fun to play it in limited!
Great Ep!
Hey guys, love your show. I am the guy who did the complete reimagining of Spectral Chaos. If you would like to do an episode about Spectral Chaos, either as a stand alone episode or as part of your episode on Invasion, let me know.
In competitive EDH, transmute artifact is played far more than workshop, which sees virtually no play even in fringe decks.
Oh man, y'all are killing me with this one! Antiquities was where I started and I remember my friend Chris putting together a green and artifact deck just to get out the Colossus. Like Patrick says, it didn't see much play at all, but many of us didn't even play with the four card limit yet... and tron with seven or eight of each of them!!? Well... lol, at the same time, many of us had like 90 card decks as we just kept adding to them. I think Patrick had to have had a Mishra's War Machine, as giving it the worst in the set comes from the experience of trying to make it work. It never worked. Never.
Sanity Grinding is definitely up there for mill card names on theme
Absolutely love this show.
The gunslinger story is the best part of this episode.
Loving these!
I love the respect that Ornithopter gets. 11/10 card.
Triskelion reprinted in Dom United, I watched someone loop it with Battlefield Scrounger with an empty deck. Was nostalgic and impressive
4 different arts with the 4 per card were so cool.
This is a great podcast
y'all are simply the best
Love it! Now please upload Legends, can't wait for that one... (PS, Phyrexian Gremlins also has the Phyrexian creature type now, makes me wonder if you did this episode quite some while ago?)
I love the das kapital in the back. Man of the people psully
Good stuff yall
This show talks about cards and often the same cards over and over, but it doesn’t talk about decks from that time that used the cards. Also one interesting thing also missing is what the top cards in value were. The card prices really tell you what the players/collectors were thinking about at that time.
Colossus of Sardia was my first MTG rare ever.
Man, you guys should bring back the Eric Andre bit; there were so many lines this episode that would've made zingers!
Did notice one error -- Tawnos's Weaponry -- the error version is half as common as the other -- the card was a U3. It was correct on the printing plate twice and the grey circle was shifted down in the description once on the plate.
Power Artifact and Transmute artifact are about the only things close. So I play all three.
I remeber trading for reconstruction in the bicycle shed for just this reason when i was a kid
The whole "Strictly Better Than" versions of cards in the same set only makes sense in two worlds: 1. if you are building for limited or 2. we don't have the internet/stores to find/distribute higher rarity cards. In constructed you'll almost always use the "Better Than" version than the more common version unless a game restriction makes it impossible to use it.
I played back in the day and Sengirs and Serras along with the Atog sac a bunch of artifacts. My favorite stuff from this set were the lands and the Artifact protections. Black Vise , Racks, Millstone, Ornithopter was so great. I always thought that the Urza lands were meant to charge the Batteries or the Basalt Monolith, Fireballs and Streams. Modern MTG is way too OP, this set was a needed addition at the time, but Legends and The Dark were better.
for the trade-in, apparently you could elect to have WotC send you replacement cards from the other box instead of cash
Common Urza’s lands were almost a cycle AND powered Colossus of Sardia and other expensive gadgets quite nicely. That plus Library of Alexandria start to justify Stripmine.
I would say Walking Ballista is a modular Triskelion!
The frustration of playing against a mill deck is not watching cards mill to the graveyard, unless you’re playing a jank combo deck and your combo pieces are milled, the frustration is that any good mill deck is also a creature-less prison deck.
i notice the copy of Capital by Marx and i approve.