I've had several people ask if this works on the P1 series. TLDR is if you have an enclosure and there's space next to the aux fan, it will probably work 🔥 Also - apparently the chamber sensor is on the button board near the front of the machine. I'm not sure why it's placed there...I would still opt to place the additional sensor near the back to prevent overheating of the electronics.
The placement of all the main parts are the same between the X series and P Series. I actually just ordered everything so I can do this to my P1S. Maybe my Adventurer 5M too. I'll have to see if there is enough room for it. Then I'll get seconds of everything for that.
@@DrZylvon I have both printers (X1C,P1S) in use - they have the same internal clearances. I checked clearances on both prior to ordering in case there was something I missed.
So this is awesome. I even installed an identical setup thanks to you. However, after one print I think I’ve found a pretty decent flaw. The way poop flys around on the X1C I think it might be safer to mount the heater upside down in the current location or sideways under the aux fan. I’ve already had a piece of poop fly perfectly into the air intake hole. Just wanted to share. Thanks
awesome project. I bet you can utilize home assistant to control the heater entirely. There is a bambu lab integration to get the chamber temperature, and weather or not it is printing. Use that to control a zwave outlet to control the heater.
I did something similar with an enclosed printer about a year ago, but I used a different PTC heater that was larger and had more watts. The enclosure is very leaky by design, but it planes out to around 62C or so. I like your setup there, but I think I would get rid of the carbon filter on the inside and put an additional heater in it's place. Might have to spec out some higher temp lube for the internal parts that move like leadscrews, but I think it should work ok in a Bambu Labs P1S. I made a printed mount for my temp controller so it sits on the side of the printer and I can more easily control the chamber temps with it. I just added a short extension cord to power it.
New subscriber here. Thank you for this very thorough and educational video. I went to the link for the heater and under it where it says "items frequently purchased together" it had all three items listed as if Amazon already knew what I was after. Obviously, a lot of people have purchased those items after watching your video.
Great information. I just ordered the heater and controller. Already happen to have a stack of the kasa plugs. Just tried ASA for the first time and I am at a 100% failure rate and I have been told by others that got the Layerzerodesign heater that they went from 100% failure to almost 100% success by chamber heating. This option is 1/4 the cost and from what I have heard regarding delivery times of orders of those other units, about 15 days faster to get a hold of so very happy to come across your video. Thanks!!!
Awesome mod thank you. I installed this a month ago and had great success printing asa that I was struggling with previously. Also what filter do you have installed in yours?
I’ve used passive reptile heaters for chamber pre-heat. Hadn’t considered one for my X1C. You just add an Edison light socket and screw in ceramic “bulbs” of appropriate wattage. The smallest “bulbs” are about 2” in diameter so the footprint is a little deeper than this heater, but it should fit.
My only gripe about my X1C, and it's now about to be fixed because of this. $41 total for me due to sales, and I already have a smart plug. woohoo! Polycarbonate has been my arch nemesis so far,
I wonder if tearing apart one of those creality filament dryer things would give you a strong enough heater with all of the sensors/control panel. Not sure what the max temp is for those maybe some sort of adhesive insulation all around the enclosure would help out. I was thinking I would just make a replacement door panel or top glass and mount the heater to that so it could be removed easily and returned to normal.
Fighting a warping issue while trying to finish an enclosure, found the warping occurs to the parts closest to the door.. I ordered two of those heaters, along with my RP2040-Tiny that controls a SSR while talking to the printers controller, Klippers Chamber Temperature becomes a controllable reality.
This is Genius! Just one thing I'm not so sure about: how the heater is simply sticking to the side panel with double-sided tape. Because if for some reason it eventually unsticks and falls inside the print chamber (either naturally due to vibrations + gravity, but also with the help of the heat that could soften the glue) then the build plate could crash onto it and get destroyed. That's why Bambu went from the terrible prior design of the aux fan, that was simply glued to the wall with double-sided tape initially (many of them ended up falling) to a 3D-printed bracket to securely support it. Whatever, nothing prevents anyone to add that kind of bracket under the heater, and I guess that some models will quickly appear on Printables and Makerworld.
An interesting idea, and the video is clear and understandable; there's a couple of audio issues but not during the "meat" of the video. So you got a like just for making a solid video, over an above the actual content! When I need my X1C's chambre to be warmer, I just throw an old blanket over it. You'll have a lot less energy loss if you insulate the printer, especially the top. Granted, it does complicate the AMS placement, but it's amazing what a few layers of poly-cotton can do.
I was thinking about putting one of my old heat beds in the bottom, placing a aqara temp/humidity sensor on the inside was of the unit and turning the bed on and off with automation like most things in my house and using a smart outlet. According to the display mine holds about 46, but then again I will have to check that. FYI the temp sensor for the charmer is the same board as the standby button and emergency shut down button on top.
Pretty cool! With larger parts I have found the plates to show themselves a bit thin and bend upwards, (lifting away from the magnetic surface of the bed); I'll be curious to implement this upgrade and compare results. Also, the Doubble sided smooth PEI plates are a bit thicker and make a big difference in this kind of situations.
Thanks. My exact problem (some warping with PA) and the perfect solution. Thanks for the cautionary sticker removal part. Even turned against the wall that would drive me crazy.Excellent video.
@@emberprototypes INSTlled and heating up. Super easy. 30 min in I'm at 31C... Thinking about external insulation skin. Foil bubble foil. It may even look OK.
I just did braces for my A1 in ABS-cf by putting a blanket over my X1C 😂 in a 20c room it was up to 60c in ~30 minutes or so. I wouldn't leave it unattended if you try this out. The first one I tried without this extra insulation warped pretty well.
Nice work. 9:33 these are only with heater right? Do you have temperatures on same spots without heater? It would be a nice comparison. You could use a small relay, when it is powered, turns on the heater (many options how to power the relay, for example power from LED, but I am sure there are nicer solutions too). It would be nice if BambuLab would came up with stock solution, but I think they are afraid of ther own printers as competition, forcing you to buy X1E..
Yes this is only with the heater on at equilibrium. The temperature oscillates by around 10C when I set the temperature to 65 on the controller and this matches what I see anecdotally in chamber temp with and without the heater. So it can boost chamber temps by at least 10C. I'm sure it can do more but then you start risking overheating the motors and electronics so I do not go above that. Agree it would be nice to have an official lower cost option. I hope their next printer comes with it standard, as all new flagship printers should IMO.
@@emberprototypes I will try up to 70c. The motor and boards are outside the enclosure. I don't think that 5c more will do a wild difference in the motors. Anyways I have a laser thermometer that I can use for test too. Did you turn on auxiliary fan to keep constant air flow. I think at 10% will help the heat distribution. Maybe we can design a funnel to change air direction, so the Nylon part don't warp
@@JoseAguiloworkshops I could definitely try hotter and see what happens haha. I don't have the aux fan on but the heater itself has a small fan and I have a carbon filter unit running too so I think there is some circulation already, maybe could use more though, but it's hard to tell. I'm not having any issues in its current form
Great idea. What I do wonder though is how the internal components will behave long term. I can imagine the X1E has either components rated for a hight ambient temp. or are insulated appropriately ..
AFAIK the X1E has the same electronics as the X1C and mostly the same components. My X1C has been running with this for almost a year now and still chugging along.
Did something similar with my P1P. Heater, temp control, enclosed and insulated chamber and a cooling fan on the CPU plus and additional exhaust fan mounted into the back panel to prevent cooking the electronics. The heater is permanently attached to the enclosure with screws no tape.
I should probably use screws and add a fan at the back at some point...but it seems to be working fine so far (I've been running it non-stop 8+ hours every day doing some production ABS work 😅)
@@emberprototypes now if someone could find a way to get the nozzle up to 350c and bed to 120c I’d be golden. Would like to stay all BL to keep a homogenous ecosystem which would make my workflow easier but as of right now running Qidi Q1 Pro for PPS CF because for the price it’s the best bang for buck for that material.
This is awesome, I'll definitely keep this in kind if I need to print any of the more exotic materials. Also, unrelated question but what carbon filter are you using? How is it working out? Thanks!
It's my own design, as I'm testing a couple of other things with it. It's OK. I am skeptical about how well these actually work as there has been little to no scientific tests or experiments done...something I would like to do (and possibly make a video about) at some point
How does the double sided tape hold up to temperature? My concern would be over time it would not hold the heater to the side wall. I have been wanting a chamber heater for awhile, and I will be building this. Thank you for sharing.
No problem - thanks for watching! So far it's been holding up totally fine - though I'm using some very high quality VHB. Mileage may vary with other tapes. I'm currently running some production ABS parts so it's been on almost every day for 8+ hours over the past several weeks and it's doing great.
Although a high enclosure temperature may be good for the printing process, you must realize that every part inside the chamber (mechanical, structural, electronic) must operate and 'survive' at that elevated temperature. A practical and still feasible chamber temperature is 60degC at most This is also the max chamber temperature that can be set in the X1E. Obviously, the X1E is prepared for that chamber temperature. But are all the other printers that you are "upgrading" temperature-resistant? What about the almost 80degC that you reach in your heater experiment?
I've only upgraded the X1C. Also, as I mentioned in the video, thin gauge thermocouples often read at higher temperatures in applications like this because of their low thermal mass. The X1E uses all the same components and is rated for 60C. The temperature sensor is at the top near the front door and undoubtly has higher thermal mass and slower response than the thin gauge thermocouples I used. My controller setpoint is 65C and the average temperature measured with thermocouples oscillates between 55 to 70C. However, the temperature reading from the Bambulab sensor itself never goes over 60C. So assuming they use that same temperature sensor to control internal chamber temps on the X1E, I think we are fine. Only time will tell - but this is definitely something I have carefully considered.
@@emberprototypes One important difference between X1C and X1E is the extruder module, especially the controller PCB inside. The PCB or semiconductors of the X1E may have a higher temperature rating. Although your demo is only the X1C, people may be inspired to try the same heater for their own printer. If their printer contains PLA-structural parts as part of the chamber, these can be severely damaged when exposed to your heater module (PLA starts softening at 60degC?). I would mention a simple warning against this in your own pinned comment
@@vsijben if it does, I doubt it's real. Likely just another certification-less item from overseas (which is why I wanted to open it up and check for safety precautions)
Nice! I use the exact same controllers to manage some supplemental lighting in my indoor garden (only on "during the day" and then, only when the garden temp is below a theshold) and it had not remotely occurred to me to use with my X1C! 🤣
Hello! I assume the the Inkbird controller switches the whole heater on and off right? I guess it might provide better temperature stability if you bypass the controller and let the fan on the controller always on? But sure it will need some rewiring and more effort. Very nice solution as using off-the-shelf components anyways!
So based on your discovery I purchased the same heater for my X1C. For safety reasons, my printer has been added to my air duct system to vent the case to atmosphere actively. Because of this I'm inevitably going to be drawing cool air in through the gaps in the gas and housing since it's at a constant negative pressure. Do you think this heater will be sufficient enough to keep up with using a vent system? I should know in a few weeks once I get it installed, just curious your thoughts.
Probably not to be honest, you likely need a much more powerful heater. An alternative way to accomplish what you want while still taking safety into consideration is to enclosure your printer in something like a grow tent and place a large air purifier inside said tent. Then you can use a chamber heater like this while still being safe.
Great video @emberprototypes. Have you tested the heater with the bimetallic switch bypassed ? Looking at the logs it looks more like the response of a bimetallic switch VS a PID controller (of course a PID loop can look like anything when not tuned to the system). Depending on the temperature of the switch there are 2 temperature controllers in the loop. Thanks again for the video.
I actually didn't test the bimetallic switch to find out what temperature it shuts off at...probably should have. The inkbird controller is simply turning the heater on and off, so it's not PID, hence why the temperature graph swings so much like that. PID would obviously be better, but requires more work. Thanks for watching!
Have you considered insulating door and top glass panels? Also maybe good idea to install flap door to poop chute and to isolate motherboard from heating.
Not sure if you're familiar enough with the differences between the p1s and x1c, but do you think there are any concerns with doing this on a p1s? Love the idea and the ease of upgrade/cost. Would be a game changer for my abs prints. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching! I don't own a P1S, but as long as you have an enclosure and you have space next to where the aux fan is on the X1C, I don't see why this wouldn't work. Everything I've seen about the P1 series looks super close to the X1 so I would guess you would be good to go.
I think I saw somewhere that X1C forces chamber fan above 60C because otherwise motors and electronics might fail. Do you see it working (against your heater)? I found that covering top and sides of the printer with a towel helps a lot, the chamber temperature stays above 50C (if bed and nozzle are hot enough, I tested with ABS+, Nylon, and PC). Preheating is a bit of a wait - I set bed temp to 100C, aux fan to 50% and move bed next to the fan and wait. Your approach will probably save the wait.
I don't think this is true, or at least it doesn't kick in until higher than 60C. Having a heater is definitely nice, way faster and more consistent over time (eg. during winter months vs summer)
I installed this and then started getting heat creep super bad on my abs prints when the chamber was at 60c. Do you use a different nozzle than stock? Seems like the stock nozzle and fan isn’t sufficient to cool the hotend when the chamber temp is this high. Several failed prints an hour in and then completely back to normal when I ran without the heater. Any chance you’ve run into this? I also insulated the chamber so the heater might be overkill for abs anyways, maybe heat creep is less of an issue with nylon? Plan on printing a lot of nylon as well so either I’m happy I did the upgrade if I can figure out this issue. Thanks !
Weird, I've never, ever ran into heat creep with ABS ever in my 10+ years of printing haha! It's typically just a problem with PLA. I haven't had the same issue on my machine with the heated chamber. What temperature are you controlling to? I wonder if you're actually going above 60C and need to drop it down a little bit.
Ya I was surprised also, it was the last thing I checked. Changed nozzle, dried filament again, messed around w the settings a bunch. But eventually since it always happened like an hour into the print I realized that was when it got up to 60c. Ran it with the heater off and it printed just fine. Been running the heater for a couple weeks before this happened but it was before the heat in my apt kicked on so the ambient temp was a lot lower and the chamber never got that high. Both the inkbird and the onboard chamber temp sensor are reading within 1-2 degrees of each other but maybe “60” is just pushing it for my setup. We’ll see how it works with nylon but I’ve been able to stop all my warping issues and avoid clogs running it at 50 with abs. Thanks for the reply! Definitely a worthwhile upgrade but like anything else takes some figuring out.
@@YapScience super interesting. I'm glad you managed to find a setpoint that's working though! Temperature is a tricky thing to measure accurately sometimes 🙂
Yes you're correct, the temp sensor is on the same board that is used for the accessory button on the top right at the front...so the place I put the sensor isn't actually the best spot 😅although it's still true that I'd like to measure the temperature close to the electronics so they don't overheat
I had issued with warping too. I solved the problem by wrapping my X1C with 1 inch polystyrene rigid foam. I modulate the temperature with the enclosure fan and keep the chamber temperature at 50 deg C. The fan usually runs between 30 and 40% with a build plate at 70 deg C.
I haven’t had any issues when printing ASA, and then again I haven’t really printed any big dense parts like you. But I do have that heater in my cart. lol I couldn’t help but notice you have a different looking carbon filter in there instead of what I’m use to seeing, the bento box. What filter is that? Is it printable or something you made or bought?
Yeah you can get by with smaller lighter parts, but once you start scaling up size and density it becomes a whole different ball game and a heater is really helpful. I made my own filter system before the bento box really became a thing. I kind of hate that none of these filtration things have any sensors and/or scientific evidence of how many VOCs they can capture in terms of kg of filament...but maybe that's something for me to work on in the future 😅
Also you don't want a heated chamber for ASA (at least for the one from Bambu) I have had big problems with ASA since I use an active heater in my X1C and I found out that it is caused from the high temperature. ASA needs quick cooling to not get ugly (especially for sharp corners). I can also proof my point. When you change your printer in the software to X1E (with the active heater) and look at the ASA setting, the heater is set to 0°C. Bambu did that for a reason. When you look at the settings for PC you will see that Bambu set it to 60°C. I turned off my heater again when printing ASA and my prints looked good again.
Oooh thanks for this, I was curious if I'd run into issues, I wanna design a whole PCB with an esp32 for this because I'm crazy. it'd be fun to have a built-in 100w PCB heater and also make it a bento box (Worried about ABS/Fume buildup on those CF rods which aren't resilient or can't be lubed, Wonder if fine graphite powder would work on them?!) I hope my 100c max heated bed isn't a problem! I highly recommend adding insulation to the sides and the rear too and the top actually, tey let out a TON of heat. just that alone (only half of the sides and the top) brough me from 40c to 51c when doing ABS (100c bed) I'd be very scared of going past 60c, and it might make the bushings lose and bind (brass expands more than CF) if i'm being honest 80C sounds like a lot, I'd love to be updated on how it lasts and what happens overtime!
There is definitely lots of heat loss through the panels, but I'm lazy and didn't want to slap a whole bunch of insulation on...and I also didn't want my X1 to look ugly from the insulation haha 😅 so this little heater does the trick!
@@emberprototypes yeah not gonna lie it’s ugly *sight* but o figured it’s cheaper, I already had a bunch laying around and glued only the top 1/3rd, figured I could take them off. I just lay the top ones on without gluing so I can take it off for PLA
@@emberprototypes Insulation doesn't have to be permanent ... how about an external "tea cozy" approach. Just place it snugly around the X1C when you need it and store it away when not in use. Works for teapots. 😉 🫖 Make separate parts for sides, bottom, and top of the printer that all velcro together.
Awesome mod! Thank you so much for posting a video. I've been wanting to put some sort of chamber heater into my P1S for a while and the heater and Inkbird just arrived today. Have you had any thermal issues with the electronics in the long term? I'm a bit leary about mounting the heater just on the other side of the back wall from the mainboard. Also curious about what some of the longest print times you've run with the heater on?
I've had zero issues thus far and have been running this for a long time now. I've had very long prints (20 hours) as well as non-stop production work and it's been working like a champ so far for me!
@ glad to hear it! I just finished the setup in the same configuration as you (well, with a bento box) and just fired it up for the first chamber heat. Thanks again!
Conversely, can a Bambu P1S print chamber be too hot? I love in Florida and my printer is in an outdoor shed. Ive been experiencing some adhesion problems, and can't find if heat in the chamber will impact a print.
Yeah definitely - if the electronics overheat you'll get skipped steps on the motors, etc. I'm not sure why this would impact adhesion though unless the extruder motor is skipping steps and not extruding properly. You may just need to clean your plate. That's the most common adhesion issue for people.
Im late to the party, but the temperature sensor is located on the button board on the upper right hand of the chamber. The button board has an emergency stop button and a sleep button to turn off the screen. That might be why there is about a 10c difference. It seems like an odd placement of the chamber sensor. I really do like your chamber heater. It’s very straightforward.
Yeah I've learned this as well. I will update my pinned message with this info 😅 but yes, it does seem like a weird spot to put the sensor doesn't it? Thanks for watching!
Be nice if you could mod the button board to move the temperature sensor to be inside the chamber. Just getting the chamber up to over 60c using off the shelf components is nice. You got the temperature in the ballpark for the materials used. Winning!
I created your project and everything works (I installed two of them on a flashforge 5M Pro). The only problem is that at around 50°celsius the thermal fuse cuts off the heater. Do you have any idea? Do you think it can be replaced with one with a higher value?
Ugh, I just completed this upgrade and mine cuts out at 50c as well. If anyone has a link to a direct fit 85c thermal fuse part number I’d appreciate it.
@@joeziskend8463 I wonder if some of these are fitted with a different bimetal switch rated for a slightly lower temperature 🤔 You want to look for something like this: www.hctemp.com/AMT-bimetal-thermal-protector-thermal-switch-pd46516606.html If you take your heater apart, maybe there will be a part number on it indicating its temperature range (I should have checked on my when I tore it apart)
Thought about doing the same just wondering what is the long term influence high temps will have on the electronics (stepper motors, components on the extrusion head, controllers on the back of the machine etc.) which will all be exposed to high temps for long periods of time (I wanted to get to 90°C chamber temp, but I guess 80 will do fine for most materials I need). Have you considered this? do you have any input on this?
Some prints/printers/filimate don't like the temp flucations. It's expansion and contraction (or attempted) that can release the part off the build plate. Not always - but some times - depends - just something to watch out for.
I was thinking about putting a chamber heater in my x1c, but i imagine it completely differently: an inkbird with 1 temp sensor. Heat tape, wrapped around a steel rod with the thermocouple directly on the tape so it doesnt overshoot, then wrap that in fiberglass... Have the steel rod shaped so it gives off the heat evenly and gently
I just ordered the parts, thanks for the idea. Also, did think that your success is because the heater or because you make some changes to the part? Did you think you will succeed without the part modification? Last question, I saw you top layer a little rough in some areas. It is happening to me too. How do you think or anybody here can tell how the get a almost perfect top layer in a part like that in pacf? Thanks
I think it was a combination of the two. Unfortunately I was on a deadline for the part so I didn't have the luxury of testing one variable at a time 😢
@@emberprototypes keep up posting in a future video. I will do test to compare later with you and all the people who do the upgrade. Keep the good work
6 months later... is there an update on longevity or any component wear? I just bought it all to do PC-ABS but I would like to know how your machine handles it long term
One concern I have is that when I insulated my x1c I discovered that the extruder loses torque at higher chamber temps. A friend of mine had the same experience insulating his.
i noticed that the poopchute kinda ruins the chamber fan's suction. if you block it off, the chamber fan will suck more air from the door if it's open. having the heater in that spot would be perfect for warming the air getting sucked in to the chamber by the chamber fan then.
I wish i had taken a better look at the temperature graphs before buying all this stuff. The temperature swings are crazy, i tried to improve it by moving the sensor closer to the heater but the thermal lag on the sensor alone is excessive, its just not well suited to this application. Going to look for a different heater with actual air temperature control
The ideal scenario is to have PID control as opposed to on/off. But honestly, I've been using this for around 6 months now and it's been working beautifully. My opinion is this isn't something that needs precise control.
meh you could probably eliminate warping with a dual adhesive method (gluestick with aquanet on top) but i'm going to Implement this anyway. Might use a pid controller instead i was working on an open source heater controller that was esp32 based with wifi etc that used kalman filters but i got distracted i have too much shit to do.
I already use Dimafix. A heated enclosure is way better and now I don't need to use adhesive for most parts. There's a reason why Stratasys machines and other higher end industrial machines have it. I believe it also helps with part strength and layer adhesion. PID would be nice but not necessary from what I've experienced. Good luck!
That's not a thermal fuse. It's just a thermal switch to keep the temps between a certain range. If that part fails in closed state, it'll just stay heating (not sure what those chances are though). You could potentially try to add an (actual) thermal fuse in series to it, those will cut the power completely if a set temp is reached. Ideally before the flashpoint of the surrounding materials.
You're correct. I did mention it's a bi-metallic switch but the term "fuse" isn't correct...though it's somewhat similar to a resettable PTC "fuse". I do have some actual thermal fuses, and I know that some space heaters with dual safety features have both a bi-metallic switch and a thermal fuse. Maybe will throw one in on the next mod!
HINT: To remove that glue, it is PRETTY simple. You shall just use like sunflower oil, or something similar. Rub the part in with the oil (those remains you want to get rid of), let it soak for like 2-5 min, and then use a thin scraper made of hard plastic and scrape it off, or you can use your finger nails.
There is a small hole on the floor of the X1C on the exact corner you placed the heater. That’s the hole I used to get the cable out of the printer for my Bento Box and it’s easier than getting it out from the back of the printer.
I'm afraid of the PETG parts the Prusa is made of and the electronics board inside the chamber. Did you modify any of it? Electronics outside, replaced printed parts with higher temp plastics? Do the steppers like the hot environment or do they need some sort of cooling?
It's an affiliate link so it depends which country you're in. Amazon will try to find the closest thing to the actual unit I purchased in your country. If it's not giving you the same heater, you can try to search for it instead.
I get around 58 °C in the regular X1C when I print with 110°C printbed. So therefore for me it makes no sense to have an active heater in the printer which could give me probably 3-5 °C more. Having no issues in printing PC, ABS or ASA. Also not with pure Nylon.
You must either live in a really hot climate, or have the machine insulated well. There's no way my machine gets to 58C with just the bed on. I have my heater set to 65C and things seem to be working well. Honestly, even at 60C chamber, if you print large, dense PC parts, they'll probably warp. Stratasys machines get to 80C+ for a reason.
@@emberprototypesI'm with you, my machine has never gotten anywhere near that. My room temp is ~72-75f. Typically, I see around 48-49c chamber temps after preheating for a while with the aux fan circulating. Even after many hours into the print, that's about all I can get. Hell, I've not hit 58c even with a blanket on the machine.
My stock Carbon will maintain 58-60C if you wrap the sides and front with a continuous piece of silver bubble warp and insulate the top with blankets, towels, etc. There is tremendous amount of heat loss thru the glass and glass joints. Its not pretty but it works. Without the insulation, 48C is the max chamber temp I will ever see. I like this mod and am order parts now.
@@bretkline4633 yeah that's similar to what I see without an active heater. I was too lazy to wrap insulation everywhere and wasn't thrilled with what it would look like 😅 I agree there is definitely lots of heat loss through the panels though, I can feel it when I touch the machine!
A bit confused why you need the heater. A few printed parts will help seal up most of the holes between the electronics area and the main chamber. Once you do that the heat loss drops to where the bed can keep up and as a bonus your electronics should stay a bit cooler for possibly longer life.
My concern with doing this on a printer not designed for it is you are heating the air around the hotend. As I'm sure you know, the hotend has a cooling fan to keep the cool part cool and the hot part hot, with a heat break between the two. If you heat the air, your not likely making the heatend hotter, but your definitely making the cool side hotter. Will the nozzle and heatend clog more? I guess only time will tell.
A very fair point. I have not noticed any clogs since the upgrade and I've been printing a ton. I find that amorphous polymers like ABS and PC don't really clog. With PLA you obviously don't need the heated chamber. Haven't had issues so far with PACF. We're not going too hot here because the electronics aren't isolated so there's a limit to internal temps anyway and I don't think the delta is high enough to cause problems here. Stratasys machines heat to 80C+. I'm curious if their hotend designs are any different, it's been a while since I've looked at one up close 🤔
Where did you read/learn this? A quick search shows that some activated carbons can work up to 200C in removing VOCs, but their efficiency may decrease with increasing temperature. It also sounds highly dependent on the type of activated carbon and the type of organic compounds themselves. I have not seen any sources say outright that they "do not work" at 60C, but I only spent a couple of minutes looking and asking ChatGPT.
@@emberprototypes BOFA touched on this during an interveiw at FormNext last year (2023). i cant find it now of coarse. but.... what i took from it is that carbon expands with heat as everything does and the specific VOCs related to 3d printing are smaller at temps about 60c. This allows them to pass right past the carbon and not be filtered. Mind you a thought i just had is....BOFA is in the market to sell filters.... so maybe some snake oil here. but it makes sence and i belive with heat carbon looses its ability to filter. Lots goes into it "working" what material your printing, temps not of the chamber but of the actual carbon ect.
@@emberprototypes One more thing to check out. NeverMore offers a product called "Scorch". its for ptinting in temps up to 65c.... they state that above 60c you see a significant decrease in performance of regular carbon. Scorch is carbon but modified somehow.
@@NWalker-zx6xu very interesting. I'll keep my eyes peeled for any further info or literature on that! I have a BOFA fume extractor and they definitely work great so I do trust them to some extent.
@@emberprototypes I was curious about this and I was able to find the reference. It's 3D Printing Nerd's Live video from Formnext 2023. It's the 3 hour long recording of the livestream. The BOFA rep talkes about the temperatures with carbon at about the 2:23:40 mark
I’m skeptical of the long term effects on reliability running at elevated temperatures. It’s relatively easy to raise the chamber temp but how do you deal with all the electronic components operating in that environment. Similar size stepper motors are rated to 40c. You’re doubling that. Before anyone cooks their printer I’d suggest you place a lot of thermocouples throughout the chassis, even on chips and assess what is going on. System engineering requires you look at the whole system.
The Bambulab X1E has a heated chamber, and uses the same components. There's a reason it's set to max 60C internally - specifically because of your concerns. Most electronics are rated -40 to 80C as well. There's definitely an upper limit though, so I wouldn't push it past what the X1E does. Going higher requires isolating the motors & electronics like they do on Stratasys machines.
The overwhelming reviews stating the fan dies prematurely (while still heating the element) has kept me from using this particular unit, unfortunately. It’s a tough product to find that’s reliable AND affordable.
The Prusa XL is capable of printing Nylon-CF without a heated bed. Similarly, Markforged printers also do not require a heated bed for this material. However, I love your mod. Will be super useful for PC, ASA and ABS.
Yes it's great for those amorphous polymers for sure. PACF formulations (along with literally all other filament types) can vary wildly...the Markforged Onyx is specially designed for no enclosure. Some PACF definitely warps less because the carbon inside helps retain stiffness...but it looks like the Bambu PAHTCF still wants to warp like crazy, as is evident with that mold I was trying to print 😅
I've had several people ask if this works on the P1 series.
TLDR is if you have an enclosure and there's space next to the aux fan, it will probably work 🔥
Also - apparently the chamber sensor is on the button board near the front of the machine. I'm not sure why it's placed there...I would still opt to place the additional sensor near the back to prevent overheating of the electronics.
The placement of all the main parts are the same between the X series and P Series.
I actually just ordered everything so I can do this to my P1S. Maybe my Adventurer 5M too. I'll have to see if there is enough room for it. Then I'll get seconds of everything for that.
@@McFlyOrPie Woot! Good luck!!!
@@McFlyOrPie where can we expect to find your findings? I'm interested as well for the P1S... thanks !
@@DrZylvon I have both printers (X1C,P1S) in use - they have the same internal clearances. I checked clearances on both prior to ordering in case there was something I missed.
@@McFlyOrPie waiting for your updates!
So this is awesome. I even installed an identical setup thanks to you. However, after one print I think I’ve found a pretty decent flaw. The way poop flys around on the X1C I think it might be safer to mount the heater upside down in the current location or sideways under the aux fan. I’ve already had a piece of poop fly perfectly into the air intake hole. Just wanted to share. Thanks
Oh interesting! This hasn't happened to me at all but I'll keep an eye out 👀
@@emberprototypes also I had a brain fart here^ I meant to say the poop lands in the heater . Not the air intake.
awesome project. I bet you can utilize home assistant to control the heater entirely. There is a bambu lab integration to get the chamber temperature, and weather or not it is printing. Use that to control a zwave outlet to control the heater.
I did something similar with an enclosed printer about a year ago, but I used a different PTC heater that was larger and had more watts. The enclosure is very leaky by design, but it planes out to around 62C or so. I like your setup there, but I think I would get rid of the carbon filter on the inside and put an additional heater in it's place. Might have to spec out some higher temp lube for the internal parts that move like leadscrews, but I think it should work ok in a Bambu Labs P1S. I made a printed mount for my temp controller so it sits on the side of the printer and I can more easily control the chamber temps with it. I just added a short extension cord to power it.
New subscriber here. Thank you for this very thorough and educational video. I went to the link for the heater and under it where it says "items frequently purchased together" it had all three items listed as if Amazon already knew what I was after. Obviously, a lot of people have purchased those items after watching your video.
@@Darknynja2 thank you for the kind words! And thanks for subscribing and watching 🙂🙏
Great information. I just ordered the heater and controller. Already happen to have a stack of the kasa plugs. Just tried ASA for the first time and I am at a 100% failure rate and I have been told by others that got the Layerzerodesign heater that they went from 100% failure to almost 100% success by chamber heating. This option is 1/4 the cost and from what I have heard regarding delivery times of orders of those other units, about 15 days faster to get a hold of so very happy to come across your video. Thanks!!!
@@Skul-Ski yeah this is by far the easiest and cheapest mod. Let me know how it works out for you, it's been great for myself!
Awesome mod thank you. I installed this a month ago and had great success printing asa that I was struggling with previously. Also what filter do you have installed in yours?
Yeah I love this mod so much haha. It's a homebrew version of the bentobox...I was testing some different ideas 🙂
I’ve used passive reptile heaters for chamber pre-heat. Hadn’t considered one for my X1C. You just add an Edison light socket and screw in ceramic “bulbs” of appropriate wattage. The smallest “bulbs” are about 2” in diameter so the footprint is a little deeper than this heater, but it should fit.
Temp sensor for the printer i believe is on the PCB where the power and pause print button is
Oh, that's an interesting place to put it 🤔
They make a green house temp sensor by the same manufacturer that would give you a more accurate measurement.
My only gripe about my X1C, and it's now about to be fixed because of this. $41 total for me due to sales, and I already have a smart plug. woohoo! Polycarbonate has been my arch nemesis so far,
Let me know if this helps you defeat your arch nemesis 😉
I wonder if tearing apart one of those creality filament dryer things would give you a strong enough heater with all of the sensors/control panel. Not sure what the max temp is for those maybe some sort of adhesive insulation all around the enclosure would help out. I was thinking I would just make a replacement door panel or top glass and mount the heater to that so it could be removed easily and returned to normal.
Fighting a warping issue while trying to finish an enclosure, found the warping occurs to the parts closest to the door.. I ordered two of those heaters, along with my RP2040-Tiny that controls a SSR while talking to the printers controller, Klippers Chamber Temperature becomes a controllable reality.
This is Genius! Just one thing I'm not so sure about: how the heater is simply sticking to the side panel with double-sided tape. Because if for some reason it eventually unsticks and falls inside the print chamber (either naturally due to vibrations + gravity, but also with the help of the heat that could soften the glue) then the build plate could crash onto it and get destroyed. That's why Bambu went from the terrible prior design of the aux fan, that was simply glued to the wall with double-sided tape initially (many of them ended up falling) to a 3D-printed bracket to securely support it. Whatever, nothing prevents anyone to add that kind of bracket under the heater, and I guess that some models will quickly appear on Printables and Makerworld.
That's a good point. I used a fair amount of high quality VHB tape and it's still on there...I guess I'll find out if it falls off 😂
I’ve got a newer version X1C and the aux fan is actually bolted to the side panel now
You underestimate 3M VHB.
I've accidentally had some stuff get stuck under the bed, it doesn't harm the machine
@@Heiserton haha yeah, pretty amazing stuff!
An interesting idea, and the video is clear and understandable; there's a couple of audio issues but not during the "meat" of the video. So you got a like just for making a solid video, over an above the actual content!
When I need my X1C's chambre to be warmer, I just throw an old blanket over it. You'll have a lot less energy loss if you insulate the printer, especially the top. Granted, it does complicate the AMS placement, but it's amazing what a few layers of poly-cotton can do.
Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching!
I was thinking about putting one of my old heat beds in the bottom, placing a aqara temp/humidity sensor on the inside was of the unit and turning the bed on and off with automation like most things in my house and using a smart outlet. According to the display mine holds about 46, but then again I will have to check that. FYI the temp sensor for the charmer is the same board as the standby button and emergency shut down button on top.
Pretty cool! With larger parts I have found the plates to show themselves a bit thin and bend upwards, (lifting away from the magnetic surface of the bed); I'll be curious to implement this upgrade and compare results.
Also, the Doubble sided smooth PEI plates are a bit thicker and make a big difference in this kind of situations.
Thanks. My exact problem (some warping with PA) and the perfect solution. Thanks for the cautionary sticker removal part. Even turned against the wall that would drive me crazy.Excellent video.
@@llogic2011 thank you! 🙏
@@emberprototypes INSTlled and heating up. Super easy. 30 min in I'm at 31C... Thinking about external insulation skin. Foil bubble foil. It may even look OK.
@@llogic2011 🔥🔥🔥
I just did braces for my A1 in ABS-cf by putting a blanket over my X1C 😂 in a 20c room it was up to 60c in ~30 minutes or so. I wouldn't leave it unattended if you try this out. The first one I tried without this extra insulation warped pretty well.
Nice work. 9:33 these are only with heater right? Do you have temperatures on same spots without heater? It would be a nice comparison. You could use a small relay, when it is powered, turns on the heater (many options how to power the relay, for example power from LED, but I am sure there are nicer solutions too). It would be nice if BambuLab would came up with stock solution, but I think they are afraid of ther own printers as competition, forcing you to buy X1E..
Yes this is only with the heater on at equilibrium. The temperature oscillates by around 10C when I set the temperature to 65 on the controller and this matches what I see anecdotally in chamber temp with and without the heater.
So it can boost chamber temps by at least 10C. I'm sure it can do more but then you start risking overheating the motors and electronics so I do not go above that.
Agree it would be nice to have an official lower cost option. I hope their next printer comes with it standard, as all new flagship printers should IMO.
@@emberprototypes I will try up to 70c. The motor and boards are outside the enclosure. I don't think that 5c more will do a wild difference in the motors. Anyways I have a laser thermometer that I can use for test too. Did you turn on auxiliary fan to keep constant air flow. I think at 10% will help the heat distribution. Maybe we can design a funnel to change air direction, so the Nylon part don't warp
@@JoseAguiloworkshops I could definitely try hotter and see what happens haha.
I don't have the aux fan on but the heater itself has a small fan and I have a carbon filter unit running too so I think there is some circulation already, maybe could use more though, but it's hard to tell. I'm not having any issues in its current form
Nice idea, if anything worth it for faster preheating. Was slightly sad though you didn’t print the original model for a better comparison.
I was on a time crunch to get these molds out so I had to change two variables at once unfortunately 😢
Great idea. What I do wonder though is how the internal components will behave long term. I can imagine the X1E has either components rated for a hight ambient temp. or are insulated appropriately ..
AFAIK the X1E has the same electronics as the X1C and mostly the same components. My X1C has been running with this for almost a year now and still chugging along.
Did something similar with my P1P. Heater, temp control, enclosed and insulated chamber and a cooling fan on the CPU plus and additional exhaust fan mounted into the back panel to prevent cooking the electronics. The heater is permanently attached to the enclosure with screws no tape.
I should probably use screws and add a fan at the back at some point...but it seems to be working fine so far (I've been running it non-stop 8+ hours every day doing some production ABS work 😅)
@@emberprototypes now if someone could find a way to get the nozzle up to 350c and bed to 120c I’d be golden. Would like to stay all BL to keep a homogenous ecosystem which would make my workflow easier but as of right now running Qidi Q1 Pro for PPS CF because for the price it’s the best bang for buck for that material.
Besides heating printer chamber, I’m thinking of filament box as well. Maybe Pid Arduino controller for pid and added safety measures programmed in.
This is awesome, I'll definitely keep this in kind if I need to print any of the more exotic materials.
Also, unrelated question but what carbon filter are you using? How is it working out?
Thanks!
It's my own design, as I'm testing a couple of other things with it. It's OK. I am skeptical about how well these actually work as there has been little to no scientific tests or experiments done...something I would like to do (and possibly make a video about) at some point
@@emberprototypes Would love to see that video, hope you make it at some point!
How does the double sided tape hold up to temperature? My concern would be over time it would not hold the heater to the side wall. I have been wanting a chamber heater for awhile, and I will be building this. Thank you for sharing.
No problem - thanks for watching! So far it's been holding up totally fine - though I'm using some very high quality VHB. Mileage may vary with other tapes.
I'm currently running some production ABS parts so it's been on almost every day for 8+ hours over the past several weeks and it's doing great.
Although a high enclosure temperature may be good for the printing process, you must realize that every part inside the chamber (mechanical, structural, electronic) must operate and 'survive' at that elevated temperature. A practical and still feasible chamber temperature is 60degC at most This is also the max chamber temperature that can be set in the X1E.
Obviously, the X1E is prepared for that chamber temperature. But are all the other printers that you are "upgrading" temperature-resistant? What about the almost 80degC that you reach in your heater experiment?
I've only upgraded the X1C. Also, as I mentioned in the video, thin gauge thermocouples often read at higher temperatures in applications like this because of their low thermal mass.
The X1E uses all the same components and is rated for 60C. The temperature sensor is at the top near the front door and undoubtly has higher thermal mass and slower response than the thin gauge thermocouples I used.
My controller setpoint is 65C and the average temperature measured with thermocouples oscillates between 55 to 70C. However, the temperature reading from the Bambulab sensor itself never goes over 60C.
So assuming they use that same temperature sensor to control internal chamber temps on the X1E, I think we are fine. Only time will tell - but this is definitely something I have carefully considered.
@@emberprototypes One important difference between X1C and X1E is the extruder module, especially the controller PCB inside. The PCB or semiconductors of the X1E may have a higher temperature rating.
Although your demo is only the X1C, people may be inspired to try the same heater for their own printer. If their printer contains PLA-structural parts as part of the chamber, these can be severely damaged when exposed to your heater module (PLA starts softening at 60degC?). I would mention a simple warning against this in your own pinned comment
Does the heater have any regulatory approval, like UL or the European CE? And I don't consider CE =Chinese Exports as a valid one...
@@vsijben if it does, I doubt it's real. Likely just another certification-less item from overseas (which is why I wanted to open it up and check for safety precautions)
Heyas! thanks for the video. So is this thing still operational? It wasn't really made to be sitting in a hot chamber.
@@TheMugwump1 yup still working fantastically
@@emberprototypes Awesome! Thanks for the reply.
I will use this, but only for faster preheating. Than you for sharing!
Thanks for watching!
Nice! I use the exact same controllers to manage some supplemental lighting in my indoor garden (only on "during the day" and then, only when the garden temp is below a theshold) and it had not remotely occurred to me to use with my X1C! 🤣
Yup, it works great!
Hello! I assume the the Inkbird controller switches the whole heater on and off right?
I guess it might provide better temperature stability if you bypass the controller and let the fan on the controller always on?
But sure it will need some rewiring and more effort.
Very nice solution as using off-the-shelf components anyways!
Yes it simply turns the heater on and off, so less precise control than something like PID, but with the convenience of a really easy solution.
So based on your discovery I purchased the same heater for my X1C. For safety reasons, my printer has been added to my air duct system to vent the case to atmosphere actively. Because of this I'm inevitably going to be drawing cool air in through the gaps in the gas and housing since it's at a constant negative pressure. Do you think this heater will be sufficient enough to keep up with using a vent system? I should know in a few weeks once I get it installed, just curious your thoughts.
Probably not to be honest, you likely need a much more powerful heater.
An alternative way to accomplish what you want while still taking safety into consideration is to enclosure your printer in something like a grow tent and place a large air purifier inside said tent.
Then you can use a chamber heater like this while still being safe.
Nice work and well done video too. I think I'll do this with my K1 Max for printing more challenging materials.
Thanks for watching!
I used the exact same PTC and control setup to heat my build volume of my Elegoo resin printer. Cool, well, I mean hot.
Hello. Nice video. Thanks. Can you tell me what the devive in the back right of your Bambu please?
@@robbiegrant4977 I made my own VOC scrubber and was testing some additional features. May be a future product 🙂🙃
@@emberprototypes Scrubber is an excellent idea.
What does the inkbird C206T do in this loop? Does it turn on and off the heater to maintain set temperature?
@@deathpunchrigby1664 correct!
exactly.
Great video @emberprototypes. Have you tested the heater with the bimetallic switch bypassed ? Looking at the logs it looks more like the response of a bimetallic switch VS a PID controller (of course a PID loop can look like anything when not tuned to the system). Depending on the temperature of the switch there are 2 temperature controllers in the loop. Thanks again for the video.
I actually didn't test the bimetallic switch to find out what temperature it shuts off at...probably should have. The inkbird controller is simply turning the heater on and off, so it's not PID, hence why the temperature graph swings so much like that. PID would obviously be better, but requires more work. Thanks for watching!
Have you considered insulating door and top glass panels? Also maybe good idea to install flap door to poop chute and to isolate motherboard from heating.
Yes I have, but a) I'm lazy and didn't want to have to source, cut, and stick on panels, and b) I didn't want to make my machine ugly 😂
@@emberprototypes It's certainly uglier, but insulation took 15 min and brought my x1c from 40c to 60c passively.
Any recommendations for insulating materials? I have seen the insulation kits on Etsy but curious what you're running.
The poop is so light weight, what type of flap door could you use that the poop would be able to flap open?
I was able to get a similar effect just byt putting two towels over the machine and taping the door hinge
I just came across your video. Very helpful information. I was curious as to what the make of the carbon filter is opposite the heater?
@@KornbreadKrafts I designed it myself and was testing something special 🙂
I will try this but using home-assistant a smart plug and the bambu integration for control as it exposes a shit load of sensors
Is there a wiki or guide to bambu home-assistant integration somewhere? I'm pretty out of the loop on that haha
Just thinking about doing it myself. How good is it?
Been great for me!
Bro you read my mind! I had a similar idea, thanks for confirming!
Thanks for watching!
Not sure if you're familiar enough with the differences between the p1s and x1c, but do you think there are any concerns with doing this on a p1s?
Love the idea and the ease of upgrade/cost. Would be a game changer for my abs prints. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching! I don't own a P1S, but as long as you have an enclosure and you have space next to where the aux fan is on the X1C, I don't see why this wouldn't work. Everything I've seen about the P1 series looks super close to the X1 so I would guess you would be good to go.
Great job, I’m installing an heater as wel and it is nice to see how you did it. I only have one question, which carbon filter do you use?
I made my own as I'm testing some additional future things 🙂
I think I saw somewhere that X1C forces chamber fan above 60C because otherwise motors and electronics might fail. Do you see it working (against your heater)?
I found that covering top and sides of the printer with a towel helps a lot, the chamber temperature stays above 50C (if bed and nozzle are hot enough, I tested with ABS+, Nylon, and PC). Preheating is a bit of a wait - I set bed temp to 100C, aux fan to 50% and move bed next to the fan and wait. Your approach will probably save the wait.
I don't think this is true, or at least it doesn't kick in until higher than 60C.
Having a heater is definitely nice, way faster and more consistent over time (eg. during winter months vs summer)
I installed this and then started getting heat creep super bad on my abs prints when the chamber was at 60c. Do you use a different nozzle than stock? Seems like the stock nozzle and fan isn’t sufficient to cool the hotend when the chamber temp is this high. Several failed prints an hour in and then completely back to normal when I ran without the heater. Any chance you’ve run into this? I also insulated the chamber so the heater might be overkill for abs anyways, maybe heat creep is less of an issue with nylon? Plan on printing a lot of nylon as well so either I’m happy I did the upgrade if I can figure out this issue. Thanks !
Weird, I've never, ever ran into heat creep with ABS ever in my 10+ years of printing haha! It's typically just a problem with PLA.
I haven't had the same issue on my machine with the heated chamber.
What temperature are you controlling to? I wonder if you're actually going above 60C and need to drop it down a little bit.
Ya I was surprised also, it was the last thing I checked. Changed nozzle, dried filament again, messed around w the settings a bunch. But eventually since it always happened like an hour into the print I realized that was when it got up to 60c. Ran it with the heater off and it printed just fine. Been running the heater for a couple weeks before this happened but it was before the heat in my apt kicked on so the ambient temp was a lot lower and the chamber never got that high. Both the inkbird and the onboard chamber temp sensor are reading within 1-2 degrees of each other but maybe “60” is just pushing it for my setup. We’ll see how it works with nylon but I’ve been able to stop all my warping issues and avoid clogs running it at 50 with abs. Thanks for the reply! Definitely a worthwhile upgrade but like anything else takes some figuring out.
@@YapScience super interesting. I'm glad you managed to find a setpoint that's working though! Temperature is a tricky thing to measure accurately sometimes 🙂
Great project! Simple, effective and carefully thought out. Subscribed!
Thank you so much for watching & subscribing! 🙏
I believe the chamber temp sensor is above the glass door attached to the plastic housing above it.
Yes you're correct, the temp sensor is on the same board that is used for the accessory button on the top right at the front...so the place I put the sensor isn't actually the best spot 😅although it's still true that I'd like to measure the temperature close to the electronics so they don't overheat
Thank you I've been looking how to do this for seriously a year I can't figure it out.
Thanks for watching!
I had issued with warping too. I solved the problem by wrapping my X1C with 1 inch polystyrene rigid foam. I modulate the temperature with the enclosure fan and keep the chamber temperature at 50 deg C. The fan usually runs between 30 and 40% with a build plate at 70 deg C.
Phil! Great idea! Doing this right away!
Thanks for watching!! Hope it helps 😸
You might want to put something on the bottom edge of the back panel to resist chafing the cables.
I haven’t had any issues when printing ASA, and then again I haven’t really printed any big dense parts like you. But I do have that heater in my cart. lol I couldn’t help but notice you have a different looking carbon filter in there instead of what I’m use to seeing, the bento box. What filter is that? Is it printable or something you made or bought?
Yeah you can get by with smaller lighter parts, but once you start scaling up size and density it becomes a whole different ball game and a heater is really helpful.
I made my own filter system before the bento box really became a thing.
I kind of hate that none of these filtration things have any sensors and/or scientific evidence of how many VOCs they can capture in terms of kg of filament...but maybe that's something for me to work on in the future 😅
Also you don't want a heated chamber for ASA (at least for the one from Bambu) I have had big problems with ASA since I use an active heater in my X1C and I found out that it is caused from the high temperature. ASA needs quick cooling to not get ugly (especially for sharp corners).
I can also proof my point. When you change your printer in the software to X1E (with the active heater) and look at the ASA setting, the heater is set to 0°C. Bambu did that for a reason. When you look at the settings for PC you will see that Bambu set it to 60°C.
I turned off my heater again when printing ASA and my prints looked good again.
Oooh thanks for this, I was curious if I'd run into issues, I wanna design a whole PCB with an esp32 for this because I'm crazy. it'd be fun to have a built-in 100w PCB heater and also make it a bento box (Worried about ABS/Fume buildup on those CF rods which aren't resilient or can't be lubed, Wonder if fine graphite powder would work on them?!)
I hope my 100c max heated bed isn't a problem!
I highly recommend adding insulation to the sides and the rear too and the top actually, tey let out a TON of heat. just that alone (only half of the sides and the top) brough me from 40c to 51c when doing ABS (100c bed) I'd be very scared of going past 60c, and it might make the bushings lose and bind (brass expands more than CF)
if i'm being honest 80C sounds like a lot, I'd love to be updated on how it lasts and what happens overtime!
There is definitely lots of heat loss through the panels, but I'm lazy and didn't want to slap a whole bunch of insulation on...and I also didn't want my X1 to look ugly from the insulation haha 😅 so this little heater does the trick!
@@emberprototypes yeah not gonna lie it’s ugly *sight* but o figured it’s cheaper, I already had a bunch laying around and glued only the top 1/3rd, figured I could take them off. I just lay the top ones on without gluing so I can take it off for PLA
@@ameliabuns4058 hey if it works, it works right?
@@emberprototypes Insulation doesn't have to be permanent ... how about an external "tea cozy" approach. Just place it snugly around the X1C when you need it and store it away when not in use. Works for teapots. 😉 🫖 Make separate parts for sides, bottom, and top of the printer that all velcro together.
@@robertlawson4295 haha that could work, but I'm lazy 😅
Great idea!
Thanks!!
Awesome mod! Thank you so much for posting a video. I've been wanting to put some sort of chamber heater into my P1S for a while and the heater and Inkbird just arrived today. Have you had any thermal issues with the electronics in the long term? I'm a bit leary about mounting the heater just on the other side of the back wall from the mainboard. Also curious about what some of the longest print times you've run with the heater on?
I've had zero issues thus far and have been running this for a long time now. I've had very long prints (20 hours) as well as non-stop production work and it's been working like a champ so far for me!
@ glad to hear it! I just finished the setup in the same configuration as you (well, with a bento box) and just fired it up for the first chamber heat. Thanks again!
@@justinu1182 woot! And no problem, happy to share the knowledge 🙂
It would be interesting if the printer's firmware was in control of the heater. Maybe something that could be achieved with X1Plus 🤔
After geometry changes?
What geometry changes did you make that helped it print so nicely?
Gotta be detailed! lol
Conversely, can a Bambu P1S print chamber be too hot? I love in Florida and my printer is in an outdoor shed. Ive been experiencing some adhesion problems, and can't find if heat in the chamber will impact a print.
Yeah definitely - if the electronics overheat you'll get skipped steps on the motors, etc. I'm not sure why this would impact adhesion though unless the extruder motor is skipping steps and not extruding properly. You may just need to clean your plate. That's the most common adhesion issue for people.
Im late to the party, but the temperature sensor is located on the button board on the upper right hand of the chamber. The button board has an emergency stop button and a sleep button to turn off the screen. That might be why there is about a 10c difference. It seems like an odd placement of the chamber sensor. I really do like your chamber heater. It’s very straightforward.
Yeah I've learned this as well. I will update my pinned message with this info 😅 but yes, it does seem like a weird spot to put the sensor doesn't it? Thanks for watching!
Be nice if you could mod the button board to move the temperature sensor to be inside the chamber. Just getting the chamber up to over 60c using off the shelf components is nice. You got the temperature in the ballpark for the materials used. Winning!
@@Teddyboy-EM best mod I've ever done honestly (and easiest as well)! Yeah I don't get why the temp sensor is on the button board...
I created your project and everything works (I installed two of them on a flashforge 5M Pro). The only problem is that at around 50°celsius the thermal fuse cuts off the heater. Do you have any idea? Do you think it can be replaced with one with a higher value?
That's odd, doesn't seem to happen on my units. But yes, you can source and replace them - they're a pretty common component!
Ugh, I just completed this upgrade and mine cuts out at 50c as well. If anyone has a link to a direct fit 85c thermal fuse part number I’d appreciate it.
@@joeziskend8463 I wonder if some of these are fitted with a different bimetal switch rated for a slightly lower temperature 🤔
You want to look for something like this: www.hctemp.com/AMT-bimetal-thermal-protector-thermal-switch-pd46516606.html
If you take your heater apart, maybe there will be a part number on it indicating its temperature range (I should have checked on my when I tore it apart)
@@joeziskend8463 Any luck finding one?
Where did you route your temprature probe to? Thanks for this tutorial, it works great so far!🔥🔥🔥
It's at the back near the poop chute. See 7:58 in the video!
Will have to do this for my P1S
Thought about doing the same just wondering what is the long term influence high temps will have on the electronics (stepper motors, components on the extrusion head, controllers on the back of the machine etc.) which will all be exposed to high temps for long periods of time (I wanted to get to 90°C chamber temp, but I guess 80 will do fine for most materials I need). Have you considered this? do you have any input on this?
80C is likely too high. The X1E maxes out at 60C for good reason. 80C+ requires isolation of the electronics & motors like Stratasys machines do.
Some prints/printers/filimate don't like the temp flucations. It's expansion and contraction (or attempted) that can release the part off the build plate. Not always - but some times - depends - just something to watch out for.
Thanks for the tip! Haven't run into issues related to this yet 😬
is that the ikea filter box?
I was thinking about putting a chamber heater in my x1c, but i imagine it completely differently: an inkbird with 1 temp sensor. Heat tape, wrapped around a steel rod with the thermocouple directly on the tape so it doesnt overshoot, then wrap that in fiberglass... Have the steel rod shaped so it gives off the heat evenly and gently
We do this at work for a steam generator on our 10kw microwave plasma source
I just ordered the parts, thanks for the idea. Also, did think that your success is because the heater or because you make some changes to the part? Did you think you will succeed without the part modification? Last question, I saw you top layer a little rough in some areas. It is happening to me too. How do you think or anybody here can tell how the get a almost perfect top layer in a part like that in pacf?
Thanks
I think it was a combination of the two. Unfortunately I was on a deadline for the part so I didn't have the luxury of testing one variable at a time 😢
@@emberprototypes keep up posting in a future video. I will do test to compare later with you and all the people who do the upgrade. Keep the good work
@@JoseAguiloworkshops thanks for watching!
Update:
I received today all the parts and my machine is ready. Printing ABS as we write. Chamber temp is at 56c. Thanks bro!
@@JoseAguiloworkshops no problem, thanks for watching 😊
6 months later... is there an update on longevity or any component wear? I just bought it all to do PC-ABS but I would like to know how your machine handles it long term
@@Xaedous it's still chugging along great for me!
@@emberprototypes this is what I wanted to hear.. I am trying to get pc-abs dialed in and the actual layer adhesion is an issue
@Xaedous heated chamber should help. I remember using polymaker pc-abs in the past and that stuff wants to warp like crazy
@@emberprototypes warping isnt the issue.. just weak adhesion between layers. like it s solid but breaks easily along the layer lines
@@Xaedous do you have the cooling fan turned off? That will help.
Did I miss the part of what your chamber temps were before the modifications?
I didn't measure that, but it definitely wasn't anywhere near 60C. Maybe between 40-50C.
worried about heat creep? hotend jamming?
Haven't run into that and it's been almost a year! Obviously don't run it with PLA or low temp materials 😅
One concern I have is that when I insulated my x1c I discovered that the extruder loses torque at higher chamber temps.
A friend of mine had the same experience insulating his.
This isn't surprising to hear. I have yet to encounter any problems though!
Hello
it keeps turning off for me and can't keep the set temperature of 60 degrees, what could be the reason?
@@Polika270 it seems like some of these units have a temperature switch that turns on earlier. I'm not sure if this is country specific or not 🤔
i noticed that the poopchute kinda ruins the chamber fan's suction. if you block it off, the chamber fan will suck more air from the door if it's open. having the heater in that spot would be perfect for warming the air getting sucked in to the chamber by the chamber fan then.
Great idea! Ill definitely try to do this in my Prusa Enclosure!
Good luck! Thanks for watching!
I use the same PTC fan in my Resin printer - the fan craps out, elcheapo pancake motor - I'm on #3 in 6 months. Amazon supplier did warrant first one.
@@plasmadyn mines still running like a champ 🤞
I wish i had taken a better look at the temperature graphs before buying all this stuff. The temperature swings are crazy, i tried to improve it by moving the sensor closer to the heater but the thermal lag on the sensor alone is excessive, its just not well suited to this application. Going to look for a different heater with actual air temperature control
The ideal scenario is to have PID control as opposed to on/off. But honestly, I've been using this for around 6 months now and it's been working beautifully. My opinion is this isn't something that needs precise control.
What air filter is that one?
@@TheRealDoubleT I designed my own because I was testing something new 🙂
PID control would be nice
Of course it would 😅was aiming for the cheapest, easiest way of doing this though
@@emberprototypes totally understand it and it came out very nice for the price point
what was the maximum temperture you can achieve with a setup like this?
I didn't actually test this because the inside of the printer shouldn't get above 60C...but I'm sure it can go higher than that.
I've been thinking about doing something like this with my K1C, thanks
No problem thanks for watching!
meh you could probably eliminate warping with a dual adhesive method (gluestick with aquanet on top) but i'm going to Implement this anyway. Might use a pid controller instead i was working on an open source heater controller that was esp32 based with wifi etc that used kalman filters but i got distracted i have too much shit to do.
I already use Dimafix. A heated enclosure is way better and now I don't need to use adhesive for most parts. There's a reason why Stratasys machines and other higher end industrial machines have it. I believe it also helps with part strength and layer adhesion.
PID would be nice but not necessary from what I've experienced. Good luck!
@@emberprototypes bought your setup c:
That's not a thermal fuse. It's just a thermal switch to keep the temps between a certain range. If that part fails in closed state, it'll just stay heating (not sure what those chances are though).
You could potentially try to add an (actual) thermal fuse in series to it, those will cut the power completely if a set temp is reached. Ideally before the flashpoint of the surrounding materials.
You're correct. I did mention it's a bi-metallic switch but the term "fuse" isn't correct...though it's somewhat similar to a resettable PTC "fuse".
I do have some actual thermal fuses, and I know that some space heaters with dual safety features have both a bi-metallic switch and a thermal fuse. Maybe will throw one in on the next mod!
HINT: To remove that glue, it is PRETTY simple.
You shall just use like sunflower oil, or something similar.
Rub the part in with the oil (those remains you want to get rid of), let it soak for like 2-5 min, and then use a thin scraper made of hard plastic and scrape it off, or you can use your finger nails.
There is a small hole on the floor of the X1C on the exact corner you placed the heater. That’s the hole I used to get the cable out of the printer for my Bento Box and it’s easier than getting it out from the back of the printer.
Interesting...I didn't see anything there but I'll check again!
That hole would be perfect if it was a little bigger, guess I could route it out a bit more.
Those fan heaters die real quick. we tried a couple on our prusas
We'll just see how long it lasts! It's be running 8+ hours every day for the past several weeks with no issues doing some production printing 🤞
I'm afraid of the PETG parts the Prusa is made of and the electronics board inside the chamber. Did you modify any of it? Electronics outside, replaced printed parts with higher temp plastics? Do the steppers like the hot environment or do they need some sort of cooling?
@@drstefankrank I'm confused - this isn't for a Prusa machine and there are no printed parts in here haha 🤔
@@emberprototypes The message I replied to spoke about their Prusas.
@@drstefankrank oh sorry I totally missed that this was a reply to a thread, my bad 😅
Pretty cool
Thanks for watching!
Too bad I already bought the X1E 😂 but I have 3 more X1C's so def want to try this.
@@marcozacarias1675 hope it helps! Definitely has been great for me
What screw driver is he using?
I'm using this: amzn.to/4aTDdOv
This is a 50W heater were a Qidi 1 pro uses a 300W unit. Not sure it will be enought to be efficient.
It's been enough to maintain 60C no problem.
@emberprototypes It is good to know.
Thanks a lot.
amazon link is for another model of heater.
It's an affiliate link so it depends which country you're in. Amazon will try to find the closest thing to the actual unit I purchased in your country. If it's not giving you the same heater, you can try to search for it instead.
I get around 58 °C in the regular X1C when I print with 110°C printbed. So therefore for me it makes no sense to have an active heater in the printer which could give me probably 3-5 °C more. Having no issues in printing PC, ABS or ASA. Also not with pure Nylon.
You must either live in a really hot climate, or have the machine insulated well. There's no way my machine gets to 58C with just the bed on.
I have my heater set to 65C and things seem to be working well.
Honestly, even at 60C chamber, if you print large, dense PC parts, they'll probably warp. Stratasys machines get to 80C+ for a reason.
@@emberprototypesI'm with you, my machine has never gotten anywhere near that. My room temp is ~72-75f. Typically, I see around 48-49c chamber temps after preheating for a while with the aux fan circulating. Even after many hours into the print, that's about all I can get. Hell, I've not hit 58c even with a blanket on the machine.
@@therealjonnyd Yup that's similar to what I see on my machine.
My stock Carbon will maintain 58-60C if you wrap the sides and front with a continuous piece of silver bubble warp and insulate the top with blankets, towels, etc. There is tremendous amount of heat loss thru the glass and glass joints. Its not pretty but it works. Without the insulation, 48C is the max chamber temp I will ever see. I like this mod and am order parts now.
@@bretkline4633 yeah that's similar to what I see without an active heater. I was too lazy to wrap insulation everywhere and wasn't thrilled with what it would look like 😅
I agree there is definitely lots of heat loss through the panels though, I can feel it when I touch the machine!
i think i will do something like this too
Great! Thanks for watching!
A bit confused why you need the heater. A few printed parts will help seal up most of the holes between the electronics area and the main chamber. Once you do that the heat loss drops to where the bed can keep up and as a bonus your electronics should stay a bit cooler for possibly longer life.
My concern with doing this on a printer not designed for it is you are heating the air around the hotend. As I'm sure you know, the hotend has a cooling fan to keep the cool part cool and the hot part hot, with a heat break between the two. If you heat the air, your not likely making the heatend hotter, but your definitely making the cool side hotter. Will the nozzle and heatend clog more? I guess only time will tell.
A very fair point. I have not noticed any clogs since the upgrade and I've been printing a ton. I find that amorphous polymers like ABS and PC don't really clog. With PLA you obviously don't need the heated chamber. Haven't had issues so far with PACF.
We're not going too hot here because the electronics aren't isolated so there's a limit to internal temps anyway and I don't think the delta is high enough to cause problems here.
Stratasys machines heat to 80C+. I'm curious if their hotend designs are any different, it's been a while since I've looked at one up close 🤔
Just an FYI, activated carbon doesnt filter VOCs above 60C. Stay safe.
Where did you read/learn this? A quick search shows that some activated carbons can work up to 200C in removing VOCs, but their efficiency may decrease with increasing temperature. It also sounds highly dependent on the type of activated carbon and the type of organic compounds themselves. I have not seen any sources say outright that they "do not work" at 60C, but I only spent a couple of minutes looking and asking ChatGPT.
@@emberprototypes BOFA touched on this during an interveiw at FormNext last year (2023). i cant find it now of coarse. but.... what i took from it is that carbon expands with heat as everything does and the specific VOCs related to 3d printing are smaller at temps about 60c. This allows them to pass right past the carbon and not be filtered. Mind you a thought i just had is....BOFA is in the market to sell filters.... so maybe some snake oil here. but it makes sence and i belive with heat carbon looses its ability to filter. Lots goes into it "working" what material your printing, temps not of the chamber but of the actual carbon ect.
@@emberprototypes One more thing to check out. NeverMore offers a product called "Scorch". its for ptinting in temps up to 65c.... they state that above 60c you see a significant decrease in performance of regular carbon. Scorch is carbon but modified somehow.
@@NWalker-zx6xu very interesting. I'll keep my eyes peeled for any further info or literature on that! I have a BOFA fume extractor and they definitely work great so I do trust them to some extent.
@@emberprototypes I was curious about this and I was able to find the reference. It's 3D Printing Nerd's Live video from Formnext 2023. It's the 3 hour long recording of the livestream. The BOFA rep talkes about the temperatures with carbon at about the 2:23:40 mark
I’m skeptical of the long term effects on reliability running at elevated temperatures. It’s relatively easy to raise the chamber temp but how do you deal with all the electronic components operating in that environment. Similar size stepper motors are rated to 40c. You’re doubling that. Before anyone cooks their printer I’d suggest you place a lot of thermocouples throughout the chassis, even on chips and assess what is going on. System engineering requires you look at the whole system.
The Bambulab X1E has a heated chamber, and uses the same components. There's a reason it's set to max 60C internally - specifically because of your concerns.
Most electronics are rated -40 to 80C as well.
There's definitely an upper limit though, so I wouldn't push it past what the X1E does. Going higher requires isolating the motors & electronics like they do on Stratasys machines.
The overwhelming reviews stating the fan dies prematurely (while still heating the element) has kept me from using this particular unit, unfortunately. It’s a tough product to find that’s reliable AND affordable.
@@JamieHarveyJr mines still going strong after all this time, so I guess I've been lucky!
Seems like a nice upgrade. Not expensive either
Very reasonable in terms of cost and easy to do, it's been a great upgrade so far!
The Prusa XL is capable of printing Nylon-CF without a heated bed. Similarly, Markforged printers also do not require a heated bed for this material.
However, I love your mod. Will be super useful for PC, ASA and ABS.
Yes it's great for those amorphous polymers for sure.
PACF formulations (along with literally all other filament types) can vary wildly...the Markforged Onyx is specially designed for no enclosure. Some PACF definitely warps less because the carbon inside helps retain stiffness...but it looks like the Bambu PAHTCF still wants to warp like crazy, as is evident with that mold I was trying to print 😅
print the object at an angle for nylon like 45 degrees it will help with warping and with a chamber heater you will have no warp