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As someone who loved World of Warcraft from the beginning, what I really wanted was to see the stuff that was cut, like the Emerald Dream. Azuregos (and the other 3 dragons) were supposed to be an "Attunement" of sorts for the Emerald dream which was supposed to continue the story threads began in the Wailing Caverns. Obviously we eventually got an end to that storyline in Cataclysm but I for one didn't like where they went with it. I wanted to see the Dream. There's also a portal in the Tanaris dessert that leads to Uldum, or rather that would have led to Uldum. I know Uldum was eventually added, but it was originally intended to be a vanilla raid, and it was supposed to Continue the story or Ulduman. This is the kinda stuff I always wanted. Many of the dungeons had stories if you bothered to do the quests and many of them left threads hanging which were meant to be continued, either in later quests, dungeons or raids. Many of these plans were dropped as the plan changed, and were eventually re-imagined in a new expansion, but the way it was done was very unsatisfying to me. The vanilla quests sotries were not continued much less concluded, I do not like loose ends, or dropped storylines. A big part of why I loved World of Warcraft was because there were so many stories if you took the time to do the quests, things in one zone or one dungeon that were part of something bigger, or that would have led to something bigger. I am aware that the realities of game development mean that a lot of that stuff never gets finished, but I view classic "plus" as the perfect opportunity to go back and finish those stories. I don't want Blizzard to try and fit it into the wow that exists today... I want Blizzard to go back and look at the threads left hanging and finish those ideas, or at least continue them and I want them to see where that goes, a whole new WOW, new expansions, is that the slightest bit realistic, no of course not, but I loved the stories of Vanilla WOW, I want to go back and see where those original idea's could have taken us.
@@responsiblerye6012 'Add more raids' is the part that would cost them money, but it's the only way to make Classic+ work. They need to fit thematically, but there's tons of ways to make it work, Uldum for example.
If that was a issue than classic would have never started. Remember the "you think you want it but you don't". That was Blizzard telling you it would cost them money.
Turtle WoW has done an awesome job with creating a Classic+ imo. I would really like it if Blizzard went for the same direction if they were to make a Classic+
I've been playing it too. the leveling feels really slow, even slower then classic originally was but it really puts people back into that old leveling mentality. i've had so many good experiences with small bouts of interaction with people. it's made me tempted to try rp for the first time tbh.
I think at this point Classic+ needs to be it's entire own thing instead of just classic with some new stuff and small changes. A reimagining of the game with some of the old stuff being slightly reworked perhaps, but overall a different game.
What you need to do is to create new loot that doesn't increase your ilvl above that of the existing vanilla content. In Classic, the solution is pretty easy -> offer gear for meme specs. Take the example of Phase 1: -Have boots, belt, legs and wrists not drop from MC. To make sure that bosses still have decent loot tables, we will now have a set for every spec. Paladins for example will have a prot, ret and holy (lawbringer) Tier 1 sets. Goal here is to make sure that MC still has enough loot to be rewarding, while also putting some of the loot in other content. At this point you can be creative. -Have boots be an exalted reputation reward from a new faction (Wildhammer Dwarves ?) -Have the belt drop from a new level 60 dungeon, alongside some other blue items that could be well itemised for a few classes (Uldum ?) -Have the wrists be a craft from a new profession recipe that you get through a big questline (could even have that questline start via an MC drop) -etc. You get the point - there are tons of ways to add new content without having you reach ilvl 7000 within 3 patches. Then if you add some vanity dungeons/reputations with vanity items, a mount, a pet, etc. you can easily have quality side content
Will meme specs be enough to motivate 25-40 people to show up and do that tedious shit every week? You'll have the sweaty guilds doing everything no matter what, but you have to think of the average players which make up 99% of the player base. (No, it wouldn't be enough to motivate them.)
@@delornegg that’s why you don’t just have the meme spec gear in the new raids/dungeons/quests. You space it out evenly so that every spec has the same % loot in MC and every other dungeon/raid. Basically you replace some of the existing set pieces from MC with meme spec gear and thus gear that used to be in MC would go in other raids. Also, since the content phases would be longer, you wouldn’t need non sweaty guilds to do every raid every week.
@@Toini01 All the extra jibberish aside. Your suggestion boils down to "add meme loot to old raids to help keep them relevant". That isn't going to be enticing for the majority of the playerbase to go back and keep doing them.
Turtle WoW has already done this and it's been one of the best, most fun times I've ever had in this game. On par with how much fun I had when I first experienced the game in 2007. Would be cool if somehow Blizz would, instead of sue and shut them down (which eventually happens to all servers), purchased their content and hired their team to make it an official realm.
Sadly, I don't think it works that way legally. If Blizz were to publish/endorse 'illegally' made content (anything from private servers), this would throw serious contention against their copyright in the court system. They certainly could steal ideas though!
It's interesting that you mention the vertical progression. What if classic plus was not so vertical ? What if there were multiple raids/content sources that were of equivalent levels in parallel. What if the new content sitted next to old one in terms of power level so you essentially have more content but it doesn't get obsolete right away because of old content or the opposite. Also content can take many form they could reshape drastically the game just by adding new mechanics to the game, new spells to classes and so on while keeping the spirit of classic.
Maybe making Classic + a horizontal progression would help create an evergreen system, balance all gear to be roughly near one another with slight upgrades in all the raids, add an achievement system and hardmodes to the old raids to create a reason to run them over for completion sake. Just spit ballin
They could add heroic versions of low level dungeons to keep more content relevant and more gear and recipes so you could customize your build. Make pve more interesting by letting people break the game a bit!
the heroic etc is one of the thing that people really dont want. why are you able to decide easier or harder version of dungeon in a fantasy world mmorpg? dunno, it just doesnt feel right to my, but i am maybe a bit autistic or something. one of the greatest things in classic wow is progression. i would suggest to make everything just harder and make new harder content for real nerds. dunno
Yeah thats why I hopped onto turtle wow. Classic+ is super doable because private servers like turtle have accomplished it beautifully. Would definitely recommend it to anyone who is interested.
Ok, few questions: 1. Does turtle WoW have a fully explorable hellfire peninsula zone, with all content we’ve seen in it in TBC? (Quests, Dungeons, PvP points, etc.) 2. Is turtle WoW constantly adding content to the full scale we see in a blizzlike content patch? 3. Does turtle WoW have a karazhan raid where you can roll up there with 40 dudes?
@@ChiefFalque I think any classic player would enjoy reworks/balancing across the board, anything to shake up the meta and enable new play styles would be amazing.
Balance changes doesnt matter. We will get speedrun comp in every raid in few month after realease, and anything balance changes can bring its another class being shamed.
Kara is actually one of my favorite raids. Yes i know it's very simplistic, easy etc.... But the zone is great, a huge castle with different areas. Great music, bosses are cool etc...
Classic Plus would be amazing. We've seen a couple private servers manage to pull off similar things but being able to avoid all that shadiness would make all the difference.
It would also be cool to see Plus content which is on par with the current Classic "quality" so to say. There is a lot of unfinished/unused areas which could be implemented given the time/money to do so. I hope to see Classic Plus one day but I feel that Blizzard is turned off by the idea of spending the money on developing costs :/
I see where you are coming from WillE and your points were valid. For me if their was a classic plus if blizz Didn't wanna add new raids or dungeons I at least want the classes that are "useless" in classic to actually be buffed up mainly Paladin's prot and Ret than Druids. and that their is Tier gear we can buy off vendors for every spec so warriors tier gear isn't for tanking and paladins isn't just for healing anymore. also make it where we level twice as fast this time if we all start fresh again like the Joyous journey buff in wrath but permanently stays in classic plus
Id rather see things done in the vanilla style, but better tuned. Id like to see enhancement tanks and a reason to play boomies without removing whats unique about them and perhaps more viable prot paladins without giving them a taunt
@@AndrewIHanna While I actually agree with this point of view the only thing I don't agree with is not giving prot pallies a taunt. It is such a fundamental mechanic to be able to taunt swap and stuff that it makes no sense to not give them a taunt.
I could see the tbc talent trees being fun but only if raids AND dungeons were tuned accordingly, otherwise all the 5 man's will just be a steamroll like wrath heroics.
I've played Turtle WoW a bit and I can say Classic + would be really really fun. I just hope they do it after may when I stop working so I can play 24/7 lmao 🤣🤣 and it would be could if they add more random things through the leveling like Turtle WoW did. They should really look at it like and use it as good example.
About the only reason I'm not playing Turtle WoW is that the addons available for it are terrible compared to Wrath Classic's. Stupid Legion client letting Questie exist. 😭
I agree with the problems you pointed out, that's why I think classic + would have to be done differently than just adding raid tiers or whatever. You would want to make add heroic mode for the leveling dungeons, so they're meaningful at 60. Doesn't have to be all 5 mans heroic available at the same time, could be a rotating schedule or something. I don't think there needs to be much big "new" content, as much as shuffled content. Change the itemizations up all over the place, change up the tier set bonuses, mess with boss placement, boss health and abilities (not just in raids, but 5 mans too). Maybe add sections to raids and dungeons, add rare spawns with new abilities. You could even add 5 man dungeons, considering there is a heroic mode at 60. Basically, add a bunch of small things all over the place, and shuffle the details around (including class balance) and you'll have a fun, fresh experience.
I think the idea of classic+ made more sense before we knew they were going to go ahead and make tbc classic and wrath classic. It avoids all these issues with "do we need to do it fresh?" and "we've already done it all on the new classic expansions." Unless they're not planning on releasing a cata classic, which I think a good argument could be made not to, and they go back to the beginning with starting over on a new fresh classic cycle from the beginning. I guess we'll see.
I think raid progression and the timing was always geared towards hard-core players, I knew plenty of more casual players who loved MC/Onyxia/zg and wanted to keep raiding those. The timeline seemed to be geared towards players who were bored of those and not the wider player base.
Yeah all talks always devolve into poopsocking the raid tiers because the vocals just wanna power through the raid timeline to wave their parses around. Shit like Turtle does well because they just add new stuff everywhere and if a group yells about it not functioning with the existing tiered content, they just shrug it off. Classic+ is a dead idea if everyone just treats it as another checklist item and not something to have fun with and leisurely play.
One thing I would like to see is dungeons that scale up, but require that all players be in the same level range. So like a Scarlet Monastery for levels 50-60. If they had the bosses drop interesting items for different level ranges, that would be an incentive to run them again. I guess I just imagined heroic dungeons for Vanilla.
I think Classic+ would ultimately fail because there are so many ideas about what it should be that you wouldn't be able to please everybody. For instance, I can deal with the leveling speed of Classic, but I'd never want to go back to half the spec not being raid viable and only warriors having an interesting rotation. I'm going to guess that PvPers don't want to go back to the days when it was rouges, frost mages, then everybody else way behind. Also, I think Vanilla just came out at the right time, and timing is something that can't really be recreated. It came out after several other MMOs, so the team was able to look at those and see what worked and what didn't. Also, everybody had heard of EverQuest, but a lot of people were scared off by the time requirements. Vanilla was able to position itself as the casual alternative to the other MMOs of the time. So it ended up attracting a lot of people who never played MMOs. All that said, this is a different time. A level of commitment that would have been considered casual back in 2004 is considered no life in 2023. A lot of the old players who might even want to come back won't be able to put in time due to adult commitments, and a lot teens and young adults don't want to have to play one game 10+ hours a week to keep up with everyone else. While I personally would really like a Classic+, if it were my job on the line, I probably wouldn't risk it.
There really are a ton of gaps in Classic leveling though. I think adding in more leveling dungeons, quests, and zones would be a bigger boost than you'd think. But yeah as far as endgame it's definitely tricky. I think there's a lot of room for "extra" things beyond just raid tiers. New open world content, new PVP stuff, stuff that focuses on the social/mass guild warfare aspect of Classic that make it unique
There was a way to get into Hyjal in vanilla. Had to climb a wall with some very particular jumps and you could get in there. The terrain was pretty much all there, some areas had invisible walls and another area had road construction signs. Other than that couldn't really see much there other than the terrain but it was fun.
New content would fit the same place they've always put "stuff we dont know what to do with." Half-Tiers. I know this comment is a bit jumbled and not explaining everything well but basically if you're going to "plus" the game, you're gonna have to subtract a lot of the things weighing it down simultaneously. Class and item balance would solve a ton of it as having more classes using more gear means everyone gets geared out faster instead of "plate or its useless," creating new versions of old items but better in each tier, catchup smaller raids that release about 2-3 months after the "main" tier that also offer various challenge modes to challenge raiders, making farm raids less prevalent etc. Think of it this way: When you renovate a historical property, its not as simple as building it brand new. You have to take care to make it around the existing framework but improve it at the same time. If you do it right, you get a blend of the modern and traditional that makes people happier with it than either aspect would on their own. It's clear that doing it wouldn't be easy- you do have to tear down a significant amount before you can put things in its place- but if they do it right you can replace things surgically to change only that which needs changing or would benefit the end user instead of with a mass stripping down to the skeleton. If they do this and patch up the holes that have existed for ages, and shore up the weakest areas that were there from day one they have a wellspring of content, a solid frame built on a flawless foundation to constantly rebuild around to bring customers back for years to that comfortable place they've always called home, but with better amenities and more modern comforts than the original owners ever knew.
Definitely look at Turtle Wow, would love to see a followup analysis of your opinion on how that approaches a lot of the questions and issues you mention
Blizzard needs to develop things a little more instead of just releasing something old. I would love to see a few changes on: - Talents - DG/Raid loot (drop more items and to make progress faster) - Create new items: with the database they have, they can check items there were being used by so many players. Check the classes that are doing this and create new items that can be BIS for some classes at the same time as maintaining the item BIS for others. This would make gear distribution better, thus not needing to re-run a bunch of raids weekly. - New Raid contents could be fit in between raids. You said: 12 months for new content? Why not add a raid in between. We all know much of the MC loot isn't necessarily good, however having a new raid between MC and BWL, making some new items very similar to the ones on MC. It will make the guilds raid the old content to equip some players and also raid the new raid. Another good example is a raid between AQ40 and Naxx. The jump of stats on Naxx gear is too high and unbalanced, a new raid content in there would be really interesting making the gear gap smaller. - New raid after Naxx would be awesome, a really hard raid that requires players to push their gear's limit to be able to progress. I honestly would love this content to be released with Naxx as well, allowing players to go either way. Adding the old concept of "dps check" and "heal Check" that we haven't seen in a while, making the progress to stop unless your raid is pretty well equipped. - One thing that is really important: Alliance and Horde MUST be able to play with Shamans and Paladins. I can't stress how much this is needed. - Server wise we all know servers have a tendency to become a mega server and something must be done regarding this. I am not a specialist on this area, however it would be nice to create incentives. Something that comes on top of my mind is possiblity of additional loot, rep and xp bonus when there is a gap higher than 10%, bonus only aplicable to the one nation with lowest number on current raid progress number.
Just spitballing here but…what if they turned all the 40 man raids…into 10-20 man raid difficulties and released 4 new raids as the 40 mans in each phase. Something along those lines where the gear is still good in the old content and worth doing while also going into the new content
i like this idea, i was thinking id like to see them give classes 1 or 2 or their later spells to help make some viable and more fun etc. They could drop as tomes in the current 10-20 man content and be pretty much required for the 40 mans. You could have acheivements for doing the raid without your tiers spells, the ultimate being doing all 4 tiers with full vanilla spells and getting a mount or something. Would never happen
As a retail player, I have been an advocate for making old content relevant again. This naturally would come into conflict with classic wow as going forward, the leveling experience is basically Identical if you choose the cataclysm leveling path but will have less content and be capped at a lower level. They have already taken a step forward with including older dungeons in the m+ pool.
I'd personally prefer wrath+. It'll be interesting to see what direction they go. My money says they'll wipe wrath classic, roll it into Cata classic, and take several years to realize their mistake.
It's almost like a pserver Vanilla+ exists (new content, new races, class updates, new dungeons, new raid, etc), and it's constantly growing. Classic NEEDS to be a living mmorpg. The style changed over the years, which is why players returned to vanilla/Classic. Players want the style back, but want it to be a living, developing game under that style. The #NOCHANGES crowd was always wrong, I said it before Classic launched, and I say it here because I'm right. Classic, derived from vanilla pservers, was at it's core a movement toward an older school mmorpg. Meta players are detrimental to any game's vision. Meta players play the current meta and hate change, which is the antithesis to developing a living, breathing world. Designers need to take back their own vision, but I feel Blizzard lacks such vision. They only put out polls, which lowers any game to it's lowest common denominator. Players will direct any game into oblivion if you let them, and this is what happened to Wow. Vanilla+ keeps growing because it continuously adds more horizontal expansion outside of the broken raid tier structure. You don't need anything better than Naxx, because most raid tiers already do not provide gear sets for many offspecs already. More professions, more recipes per profession, and many more leveling paths with more rep options provide a lively leveling experience.
Even if you just tuned the old raids, similar to how you would do hard modes in ulduar, that could keep people going back to do that content. Pop a hard mode after each phase is complete, for the former content, with new drops to accommodate the lack of gear per kill.
I think for the first iteration of Classic+ only a handful of changes will suffice: 1. CLASS BALANCE. Imagine all of the sudden underdog specs become viable (Rets, Protpalas, Boomies, SPriests, Arcane Mages). Would you relive Classic experioence as a spec you love instead of the spec that is viable? Theorycrafters go BRRRRRRRR! 2. Itemization rebalance: all of the BiS and pre-BiS loot tables are irrelevant. Guide creators and theorycrafters go BRRRRRRR!!! 3. New quests, some zones' revamp (like Azshara, Theramore, Deadwind Passs), perhaps more questlines 4. Crafting revamp with more useful professions, not just Engi and Alchemy, completely different items redistribution and requirements. 5. Dungeons and raids reblance to accomodate to increased viable specs 6. Honor/Ranking system rebalance to make PvP items more in line with current tier (not AQ40-level during MC phase) and ranking itself less painful Just imagine how lovely the game becomes when youi finally add all these variables to a seemingly solved equation.
With all the multiverse sh*t around it could end being that way. We must remember it was Chromie who introduced us to classic, why it wouldn't towards a multiverse scenario?
I would want them to make it possible for players to join villainous groups, get corrupted, kidnapped or be undercover agent of old gods/Lich King/Burning Crusade etc. Something like a third faction addition but u level up either along the ''good guys'' or separately close to the evil group's base. This is obviously a very far fetched idea that tons of ppl would be willing to try out at least but it'd cost a lot of money as well and it would be a pretty big risk depending on the execution.
This is thinking outside the box. Blizzard needs to take risks like this. Doesn’t have to be this exactly(although it sounds awesome) but something crazy and different is what I think people want to see.
There is huge potential in this and im surprised that Blizz are scared to try it. And on top of the new content they should also focus on class balance, a simplified version of wotlk talents would be great.
I'm all for class balance, but ret in vanilla was absolutely nothing like wrath paladin, Itemization was completely different and the spells worked in a different way, wrath ret wouldn't not be a "upgraded" classic ret. if you wanted to fix classic ret, roughly double the amount of damage spellpower gives you, reduce the mana cost of most abilities, decrease judgement cooldown and remove the debuff cap
" a simplified version of wotlk talents would be great." So you want what essentially has been done by Cata and so forth.... have you Activision drones learned anything about history?
Phase one of classic plus: level cap set at 20, everyone runs RFC/DM for loot, the raids are WC/SFK/BFD, scale them up to 10 players, remove level requirements on BoP loot, or change it to proper level cap. Repeat for level 35. Stocks/Gnomer/RFK/SMGY as dungeons. SM/RFD as 10man raids. Repeat for level 45. Ulda/ZF as dungeons. Mara/SunkenTemp as 10man raids. Repeat for level 50. BRD as main dungeon, possibly break it up, possibly have new content/bosses. LBRS/UBRS as 10man raids. Repeat for level 55. Dire Maul, Scholo, Strath can all be 10man raids because of only 5 levels since the last gate. Reaching level 60 unlocks chronoboon. We play phases 1-6 with chronoboon. No new content needs to be added. Just gate it by level, and force everyone to play the content that is already there. Right now the vast majority of classic era gamers boost their character 90% of the way to level 60, gamers want new content in that old style, but don't even play all the old style content currently available. Scale old content that they don't even play.
Personally I've always thought of Classic+ being a fork off of one of the original three expansions. I think it'd be great to split off of WotLK, not do Cata, and go with a different development path and philosophy that's more in line with vanilla's.
I think the biggest issue with Classic+ isnt the cost, its the expectation that it has to be greatest shit ever or people wont play it. if every piece of content has to be played by 90% of the playerbase to be worth developing, you may as well pack everything up and shut down the servers. its never going to happen unless bribe the shit out everyone. Honestly, just make a fun raid or dungeon or zone and let that be the bar of expectation rather than retention or participation. That was always Blizzard biggest achilles heel, rather than design for fun, its designed to get everyone to do it.
really depends on the quality of how they handle it if they have a creative director that can keep the essence of Vanilla WoW while adding and improving on it without losing what's good about the game then it can definitely succeed
I think classic+ should encompass all 3 of versions of classic we had. Games like FF14 are able to keep old content relevant, blizz should at least attempt something similar with the breadth of classic content.
I feel like a true Classic+ would have to reformat progression to horizontal progression. Also heroic versions of all 5m dungeons in the game would be very cool.
From the announcement of Classic I said a cross between it and OSRS in terms of systems would be sick. Make characters have access to every profession, but they take waaaay longer to max, create systems to more consistently grind them, and some sort of incentive to level them (perks, gold making, etc.). Make raid drops way rarer and make it so that there are no lockouts (i.e. for a full molten core clear, you might see 1-2 drops, 0 if you're not lucky) and make them tradeable. Introduce some sort of system like OSRS/RS3 alchemy that gives items an intrinsic value and will never drop below that value. Things like that the give the game more possibilities in terms of horizontal progression. I think the biggest barrier to this is the class system. They would need to make progress somehow transferrable between classes, which kind of gets in the way of the whole idea of being an RPG. I still think it could be fun.
Rather than taking us into Cata, I would like to see revamping the old raids. Molten core has very little mechanics, but take the dungeon and the concept, gives the encounters new abilities and bring them to level 83 with new loot, and bam you have a new raid to go after ICC.
They could add raids that are more of side grades but change how raid gear works a slight bit, like set bonuses that instead of being apart of the same set, are rather a more sandbox thing where new sets have points going towards what might become a set bonus through armor combination and mixed sets. Keeps old content relevent and isnt exactly vertical though a BIS will always exist
Example might be a set bonus that makes landing a hit when your behind an enemy have a chance to raise your crit by 10% for a very small time. You need 10 points to activate the set bonus, a chestpeice in bwl has 6 of the points, and a helm from a new raid has 4. Wear those two peices and you unlocked it. You can also slot in gems to add points that build towards a bonus that you dont want to replace existing gear with, but the gems would only contribute maybe up to 3 or 4 points max
There is a big reason to do viscidious in AQ 40 in wotlk, scarab brooch baby. Can't believe people sleeping on that. During wotlk back in the day a few top guilds to down heroic lich king had a resto shaman with that lvl 60 trinket.
After that world first lich king with paragon blizzard nerfed that trinket so it wouldn’t be effective at level 80. Very strong trinket during that time
Ideal Classic+ expirience from my view 1. No sub. Buy once it's yours forever. 2. Low-poly style 3. Huge lean towards solo content 4. Open world focus, only instances and raids behind portals 5. Set bonuses have timeless advantages that are good no matter the level 6. Old content stays relevant 7. More low level dungeons and quests 8. More class quests and class fantasy 9. Huge focus on high fantasy aspect 10. New customisation options for vanila races 11. More low level class tier sets and weapons 12. New race specific armors and weapons 13. More recipes for professions
imo to make Classic+ work you'd have to: 1. Re-do itemization, especially around class-specific gear and spec-specific sets. Also, reduce the massive increase in power in higher tiers. 2. Tweak class balance(carefully) esp. underused specs. For example re-balance things like +weapon skills for warrior hit chance and make +skills actually increase bow/gun damage in PvE. 3. Move existing 60+ raids and dungeons down to become lower level, for example MC could become a level 50, 10-man dungeon and Strat could be ~lvl 40. This would give a new feeling levelling experience. 4. Create new end-game raids with new gear to chase after such as Timbermaw Hold and Emerald Dream, release as part of normal content cycle.
In my mind, Classic + was more like Classic "what if".... What if C'thun reconquered Silithus and was heading into Ungoro or Tanaris? What if we teamed up with Illidan, or if Illidan succeed in killing the LK? What if Adal turned void? What if (insert here) ? Thats what I wanted for Classic +. A completely new story that the devs could have some fun with.
You're one brave Wahlberger aren't ya!? You do realize SJW's now hold a very sharp blade against the throats of the lore team yes? Did... did you see the Drag-On-Queens in the latest expansion? You want a race of androgynous elves to Usurp Illidan and set up a new LGBTQ+ section in Stormwind and Orgrimmar? FFS people... nothing good comes from modern think. This is why we go BACK... ...they never learn. Star Wars, LotR, f'ing HEMAN! WILLOW! The list goes on, yet you never learn. 🤨😮💨😔
Though, I have no reason to ever go back to Cata for any reason. Wrath was nostalgia but the only thing that would keep me going further is for Classic to take on a different timeline and become a separate game from Retail.
I don't want them to do Cata classic, but....the thing tha tkilled cata (and the game) for me at least was the heavy nerfs in Firelands or the HC dungeon nerfs near the start. Now we know players are lot better at the game for the large part, I don' think these nerfs are needed. Would this make Cata good (with huge changes to Dragonsoul lol)
I don't know, man. Cata had many issues, and that is one, but the horrific slowing of basically every class put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Then they fundamentally changed how so many classes worked, leaving people who had loved their classes for years with nothing to play, and then they just started ripping server communities apart, making everything just an algorithmically designed pool of random players you could never get to know.
@@thegreattaiyou I don't sorry, I know for wrath I said hell yes cause wrath (for me) is peak wow and when I had most fun and loving it tight now, lot of my friends returned who stopped around cata. I might be wrong, what's good or bad is subjective
@@Archermitwhat's good or bad is subjective but there's definitely things that bring in more people and things that push them away. Not everyone, but most.
Vanilla+ permadeath servers keep things evergreen, just incorporate best parts of TBC and WotLK and maybe some ideas from other expacs, but mostly just fleshing out Azeroth more and making the place feel even more alive as people use mortal characters to keep the fresh cycle going for themselves
If they balanced the classes and gear properly, gave every class some kind of meaningful rotation or flowchart, and got rid of some of the archaic idiosyncrasies of the old engine, I'd be down for this. You just will not ever catch me farming world buffs or rep just to zone into a raid, while I get to press 1 button for a few minutes until I have to auto attack for mana or stand there like a dummy because my threat is too high.
They could implement two things: 1) new dungeons during leveling, just regular new stuff to explore not a big deal. And new endgame dungeons dropping comparatively the same gear as raids, but make them mega hard and on a weekly lockout. 2) more item turn-ins. Make raids/dungeons drop pieces of “loot” which you need to farm up and create top tier gear which you can later upgrade with even more materials dropped by the new dungeons and already existing raids. Yes this would incentivize the tryhards to farm everything every week, but it could just give smaller groups of friends something to do besides 40man raids. Or you could upgrade current raid items with new dungeon specific enchants obtainable via material turn ins and not the professions, similar to ZG enchants. Or the new dungeons could drop pvp gear comparable to the blue set which could sort of level the playing field at the beginning of pvp? Idk But new content along the way to level60 is a super neat idea I would totally do it, especially in the 40-50 bracket.
I think they should do a fresh vanilla no changes server and then another SoM with changes relative to what the majority of the community want via survey/polls and drop them at the same time to give ppl the choice on which they would rather play.
New lvl 60 dungeons in empty zones(Azshara, silithius for example) with some sick gear with low drop chance like ironfoe, new unique loot overall to gave us fresh feeling, some little updates in abilities(prot warrior thunderstrike dmg/threat, prot pally taunt, feral weapon dps scaling etc), economy/farm/botting changes, on top of that 1 or 2 raids with some nice story behind it, how naive i am to belive in things like that... But anyway it's still too early imho, i would like to see it after cata, well prepared with ppl waiting for it. Classic hype have a chance to come back but it can't be SoM with absolutely no changes and released during TBC.
I heard an interesting idea where mini-phases cap your level at 20, then raise it by 10 every month until 60. Kinda cool as it makes dungeon gear the bis of the phase and would make more people do dungeons to gear up. Imagine how many SM and RFD runs there would be if the max level was 40 for a month...
Long post of ideas incoming: 1) Expand on questing zones as Vanilla content: BE and Dranei zones, azshara, Hyjal, Uldum, and Blasted Lands, Hyjal. Might be some retconning needed for lore reasons. 2) Scale the world to my ilvl, and adhere to the difficulty scale of vanilla mobs where surprise adds will kill me. 3) Design new dungeons: additional low level dungeons in places like Red Ridge Mountains, Thousand Needles, Desolace, and Hinterlands. Apply the lessons learned from Heroic+ and retail content scaling so that I can, 1) return to a dungeon to fill a role for a lowbie guild mate, and 2) run a challenge mode of old dungeons tuned for max level, raid-geared players. Add transmog so we can collect gear and have it only be apparent to friendly players in sanctuary cities and non-pvp, "green" zones. 4) Retune raids, add mechanics, remove excessive trash in super-sized raids like AQ. A total reimagining of MC, and AQ20/AQ40, and a full-sized raid for Onyxia would actually be sort of lit. 5) Add additional raids from concepts developed and rumored to have been in development like a furbolg raid in Azshara, an Emerald Nightmare-type raid in Moonglade, finish Karazhan as a mega dungeon or 20 man raid for Vanilla. Maybe even screw with timelines and give me BT in vanilla format. Some repeat content is okay. Sprinkle in the new stuff. Call it Season of Persistence, and when we start reaching BWL let us know you're developing new raids to release ahead of AQ and between AQ and Naxx. Possibly additional raids beyond. Maximum hype so the world population persists, as the Classic world should persist into it's developer's reimagining. 6) And throw those PVP nuts a bone and give them their fair share of new content as well, both open-world and in BGs. Utilize the arena spaces in the world and bring them to life.
Love seeing all the guys reppin’ Turtle WoW. It is a prime example of how Classic+ can be done well. New quests and zones/questing hubs as well as dungeons and activities while levelling on top of late game content with new races that fit into the lore…. The only issue is the ms, imagine that on blizz servers!
What about capping the level at 30 and then raising it slowly to 40, then 50 and finally 60. Would create whole new metas, new builds, new BIS, and make it worthwhile to develop new low level dungeons/raids.
I want wrath+. Community driven Post wrath content. Finished zones and raids that were abandoned during development, completely new content? Finished features that didn't make the cut in vanilla, tbc, wotlk that can be finished now in the style of wrath, instead of ones touched on in later xpacs.
Wrath+ would be the prime expansion to split roads into creating a separate storyline rather the Cataclysm FUBAR. Only issue is.... they don't have Metzen so it'll be crap either way.
Phase 1 MC Onyxia Timbermaw Hold (20 man) Phase 2 BWL ZG Karazhan Crypts (10 man) Phase 3 AQ40 AQ20 Un'Goro Caverns (40 man) Phase 4 Naxxramas Bastion of the Scarlet Crusade (20 man) Phase 5 Scarlet Citadel (40 man) Round the stats up of all items to not be worthless trash. Change some classes to be more like their TBC versions to be viable. Add tons of flavor text. Fill in the gaps with hints for unsolved lore questions. Add a bit more AOE leniency for tanks. Take the very best (not overpowered or lazy) aspects of vanilla, TBC, and wotlk and merge them. Allow the Corrupted Ashbringer to be cleansed in Scarlet Citadel with a massive questline starting in Naxxramas similar to Scarab Lord questline, but much grander.
I haven't played WoW Classic since 2021, but here are some ideas I think classic+ may need to consider. 1: Completely rebuild the classes and archetypes so that any class or specialization can offer something to the raid/party, or at least give players more options in how they want to play. 2: Focus less on large raids and add more smaller scale options. Classic has four 40 player raids, two 20 player raids, and one 10 player raid. Granted my memory is a little fuzzy on exact numbers. 3: Perhaps instead of having bosses drop gear change it to materials that you turn in to a craftsman NPC to make an item, or if you have the right profession you can make it yourself.
So, since I found this video a month late I doubt this comment will get much attention, but honestly classic plus is a lot easier than that. You just take a page from retail and even just the next couple of expansions and add in heroic modes for everything, this lets them make the old raids harder, add new mechanics and even makes it so all dungeons have a reason to be ran at max level. Also doesn’t take much effort to develop as it’s mostly just adding more HP/damage and maybe an extra ability or two.
A fresh server starting from vanilla would be awesome. To freshen up the 1-60 grind they could simply change some of the bosses up and add different loot options without needing to make a full new dungeon. Maybe add the quests that improve the leveling in tbc and add the sped up exp from som. People aren't going to run mc/bwl/aq40/naxx every week, they didn't do that in vanilla classic and they didn't run every single raid in tbc every week. People just pug the earlier raids if they still want loot from those. No-one is forced to run every single raid every week. Are you still running naxx 25s alongside ulduar with your guild?
Could add world bosses that drop rank 14 gear, when the boss spawns in there could be a giant announcement to both horde and alliance, when you attack the boss, it auto flags you for PVP. Could add low level raids that drop BIS gear for the twinking bracket / create low level gearsets that have bonuses for each piece acquired. In hardcore there are some that are doing lower-level dungeons with 10 players however they are extremely below level requirement. Would create a fair chance for anyone who wants to get into twinking to get best gear, could add the NPC to turn off XP. Would create more competition in lower level PVP brackets... Could add another 40 vs 40 PVP zone similar to AV, except you work on summoning a world boss and killing it before the other team to get PVP loot. They could just include all expansions into classic + and adjust the level required to run them / tweaking the gear and also changing the boss fights / adding bosses. Bosses could even have RNG with how they react to you, so you wouldn't know how the fight will play out, each encounter type will drop different armor. Really looking forward to seeing Classic + become a thing, however hope they do it justice and give us a magical place to explore.
Here's something novel; how about a new MMO all together?! Something that is truly fresh. I just quit wotlk classic because I thought I could relive the joy I had the first time, but nope,. It's more or less the same thing, but it's not fresh, it's full of bots, and min/max elitist raid-loggers are everywhere.
What would be cool is if they did a Classic + according to the original design document for WoW. Where the dungeons, raids, classes and abilities that were scrapped from Classic and put into TBC / Wrath were actually in classic. I think that would be a really good reason for people to play classic +. Also. People that think that Classic+ would cost more than $0 to develop has to consider that WoW Classic, TBC Classic and Wrath Classic also cost more than $0 to develop. They had to put classic zones, abilities, gear, quests, revert itemization and stats to how it was all on top of the current engine. It was not cheap or easy to do it. Development teams cost money, regardless if they work on current, previous or no content at all.
First of all, we all damn well know how ActiBlizz works these days, sadly, so even a slightest idea of actual Vanilla+ is just a dream. But hey... so was WoW when it was first put on a whiteboard. A dream which turned into a legendary eperience and altered gaming history in a massive way, while making money for ActiBlizz. So it's not impossible if AB is just willing to invest into it for 2 years in order to cash out big time in the next 5 afterwards. New content and experience is easily done - as some said, look at Turtle WoW. You can literaly sit for 5 minutes and come up with something like this: - New Dungeons from 10 to 60, depending on zone. Plenty of options - Azshara temple, Furbies "Capital" behind the gate Northern Azshara, demon-themed dungeon in Felwood's Jaedenar dungeons, Winterspring elemental/undead/demon themed dungeon in any of the relevant areas in the Mid-South, Silithid dungeon in Tanaris/Ungoro as a full-out prequel to AQ opening event, etc. the list goes on. - Heroic mode for Dungeons (as done at 70 in Outland) - same pattern, viable Epic items from last bosses, literaly tons of new gear to play with so gearing is a fun, new and less repetitive thing to do, so You don't spam UBRS for 200 times again just to get the swords/trinket etc. More dungeons = more viable options for gear per spec = more places to visit/run. - Update of Class' Talents and rework of "gimped" specs = makes alts even more wanted and fun to play, gearing those specs would be new thing to do, more reasons to have new dunegons from 10 to 60 + the Heroic mode of them. - Add new bosses to Molten Core and AQ40 - easily done, just open new corridors and boom, new content, add gear supporting the "newly viable" specs. - New 20-man raids to fill in time between Main raid-days - focus on social aspect, mounts, pets, generaly stuff you can run while getting drunk with your friends, bringing back the experience the real "old-timers" cherrish, not the gear hunt, but the whacky AQ20s and ZGs. - New World bosses and Time-relevant events (like Elemental Invasion) - supports both competitionand gives even semi-casual players a new experience across the world to join a pug or semi-guild run to down them. Essentially will push more ppl into joining an active guild just to do these and 20-man raids for more community content. - New Tier 0.5 (or similar thing) to support the additional specs and just giving out new interesting bonuses, so that ppl can mix Tier gear with a small 3-set bonus from dungeon epics. Make it a Heroic-dungeon thing maybe (and progressive). - Make Heroic dungeons and old raids drop a specific currency, which you will be able to upgrade gear from the previous content (Raid/HC dungeons) to a higher quality to better align with higher tiers, aking up for more gearing options per spec. (ex.: supporting AoE threat for tanks, or AoE dmg for Locks, Mages, Boomkins, etc.) - New cap for professions - new craftables, more potent alchemy and enchanting paterns to cover for the new PvE content in the game. - Rework of Gathering professions - new nodes, additional drops, Black lotuses and Arcane crystals (or even higher item of such type) dropping by random from high-level nodes. - Making Gathering highly accessible so players can go out and efficiently farm stuff for themselves or for the guild, to support community aspect. I deeply miss the farming nights while boozing over Ventrilo and roaming Winterspring or EPL as a party of 3-4. - Make nodes "pickable" by anyone withing 30 seconds from initial pick - adding onto above point, it would be awesome to just roam high-lvl zones farming with guldies for the needs of the guild itself, supporting guild crafters in their needs. We really REALLY need community aspect back, not just more efficient ZUG-ZUG tactics and raid-logging. I'm a hardcore player, but damn, F that stuff. It's boring... Game needs more depth. Game needs more community stuff! - Add new sub-locations in zones, systems of caves, etc. for End-game farming sand new quests, that'a very small change to the existing content that adds whole new experience almost for free. - list goes on... So yeh, we can all hope that one day... the game will become something "Plus" and more and will start a different path that will give players fun for more then just a set period of time between expansions, or Seasons (12 month cycle is really effin small for a MMO game, tbh).
As others have already said: Turtle WoW has absolutely NAILED Vanilla+. There's content for every level range, new zones in unfinished/inaccessible parts of the map, ideas that Blizzard dropped finished and so much more. All content remains relevant while they add new things.
For Vanilla and TBC put the qol changes from wrath like 1.5s mount and 1 click mines (maaaaaaybe q bgs from anywhere). Add hard modes to every dungeon; but it doesn't give unique loot, just more, or a higher drop chance at the best stuff in there. Do a blanket change for hard modes to give variety of actual difficulty to dungeons. Some dungeons' hard modes will actually be borderline impossible to do at the appropriate level, and others most pugs will probably prefer to run it that way: Like triple hp/double dmg or twice the mechanics and attach vanity items or titles to them given that they are done within the appropriate level bracket. Or do achievements for that. Find out which dungeons turn out to be the hardest on HM and put the "best" achievements on those. Make achievements account-wide. Lower subscription price and add a cash shop that only sells vanity stuff (BUT no new mounts introduced to the xpac that they didn't exist in; just access to other faction ones). Then run it back every 3-6 years. When this version of wrath ends drop only two servers of each - classic/tbc/wrath "pvp focused" server. Enable transmog for all of them. Make one version of the servers with very few changes. Fix bugs but no balance changes or re-working items. Final, polished-state 1.12/2.4.3/3.4.1 status, but with transmog. Then, for the other version, make balance/class/game changes how you see fit, add new qol, new mounts, boss difficulty challenges etc. For those three versions of servers you can import any character you've played (granted it 'fits' in the xpac) during the three expansions that are getting cycled over and over. For those "PvP" servers, make insta-max characters with boosted-like gear available to create and gold not even a thing, gatekeep gear behind solo-achieveable pve/pvp achievements over time, but gatekeep super-bis a little bit harder; only so much as to make a player put in time for it. So like 20k HKs and you get access to GM weapons type thing, but the next best thing is not very hard to get, like 1k hks. Run endless arena seasons and feature tournaments at times. Tournaments could come around that have silly rules but also give a silly pet to the winners. Only ever sell/reward with vanity items/titles/achievments. The populations will drop over time but the game would be played pretty much until the heat death of the universe.
New content = Phase 7 on. Grim Batol = Raid, Karazhan Crypts = Raid, Hyjal zone portal = Raid. Use Hyjal as a zone, redo the map to open the zone northwest of EPL, open the zone east of wetlands/loch modan. you can introduce new battlegrounds, introduce heroic versions of dungeons and raids and tune them to be that much more difficult.
Easy peasy. 1. New scarlet raid same time as bwl with same gear lvl, just abit of diffrent types and higher raiding scale (ppl wanna do it cause it will have diffrent items same type). 2. New parts inside current zones with quests, like caves hidden, or hidden passage way to a new part, stuff and new mobs (rares and specials etc combined with quests and outher things) 3. New dungeon around around 55-60 , can combine with the scarlets raid so you get raid and a dungeon. Kinda like BRD, somethign thats 55 ish that you always wanna come back to because it has 2 items that are really usualful. 4. If you get some small new at brackers 10-20, 30-40, 55-60 the game will feel fresh. And by new , quests, parts in zone, something small and diffrent. 5. Change certain classes so they are working, mana for elementals and boomie and retri. Cat viable etc. Not much, not much at all just viable still mid or bottom tier. 6. World buffs ofc (ganking part of the fun) 7. No max debuff slots (tune new raid for this). Classic+ VOILA!
I wouldn't really care how they did content. What they need to do is balance and tune all specs (and itemization) so they're viable in raids and aren't instantly disregarded as memes or unworthy to bring. If I could raid and perform well as an Affliction Warlock or a Prot Paladin, I'd experience the content differently than before and thus won't feel like new zones and bosses etc. are required to make it worthwhile playing :)
What could be interesting could be a kind of sidegrade progression. Instead of getting "better gear" we get "specialized gear" similar to resistance gear. Imagine all 40 player raids being on the same level, but we need to get gear from each to progress in another raid. For example what if the first boss in Molten core drops "Dragonkiller weapons" that help us progress in Blackwing lair. Out of the hides of the dragonkin we kill we make fire resistance gear that helps us progress more in Molten core where we now get specialized flame gear that keeps us warm and reduces slow and attack speed reduce abilities from frost abilites from Enemies in Naxxramas. Finally we find powerful Artifacts of Kel'thuzad that help us kill demons to kill Kazzak and use research from the spider quarter to protect us against venom from Silithid troops. Because we help the bronze Dragons we get rewarded with Artifacts that protect us from Onyxia and Nefarians magic. We would have to gather specialized gear or maybe even ressources from each dungeon, thus avoiding the problem with raid tiers and making the previous raids obsolete.
Classic+ just needs to follow the same model as old school RuneScape and they’re golden. 1) small, dedicated, passionate dev team 2) start from where the game was at its peak (debatable, but general consensus can be roughly selected) 3) add new content in an “alternate timeline” style. Maintain the feel and aesthetic of classic wow, but select from the best additions from retail. Osrs does this by taking the best content/aspects from rs3 and reskinning/remaking them with that old school feel/principles… this allows them to skip a lot of the development cycle for new content and accomplish more with fewer resources 4) focus on content replay-ability.. this allows you to not have to rush out updates and be more selective in what you make as players don’t rush through content and then crave more. Things like challenge modes for raids, speed running rewards, hardcore and Ironman modes, etc. less focus solely on gear progression and more focus on things like status symbols, cosmetics, achievements, account building. Can also give some type of reward cycle for alt building. These all lengthen the lifespan of content without being too grindy for no reason. 5) rely extensively on community feedback, either a poll system or veto process allows devs to make decisions while maintaining a finger on the players pulse 6) profit
It's a personal wet dream of mine that Blizzard makes "Classic Plus" to be a whole new thing of its own, combining Vanilla, BC, AND Wrath into one big united expansion. Some ideas of how it would work: 1. Heroic versions of ALL dungeons from all 3 expansions... scaled up to 80. 2. Heroic versions of ALL raids.... scaled up to 80. 3. Streamline the levelling process to 80 by allowing us to level in ANY zone at ANY time (just like how retail works now). 4. Seasonal content: Since all the raids are scaled to 80, each season introduces a RANDOM ORDER OF RAID CONTENT. That means, gear from each raid is scaled to whatever tier in the random order it was assigned to for that season. Example: Classic plus season 1: T1 - Ulduar, T2 - Blackwing Lair, T3 - Molten Core, T4 - Sunwell, T5 - Karazhan, T6 - Ahn Qiraj, etc. etc. going upwards until EVERY SINGLE RAID HAS BEEN INCLUDED. Meaning, for that one season, there's one penultimate raid that everyone is racing to complete. Sure, this will be a balancing nightmare for Blizzard, but come on... they're a multi-million dollar company, and at the end of the day it's just tweaking boss hp/dmg numbers, and gear item levels. Rework the damn gearing. 5. Make the raids HARD... so hard that if you don't at least have gear from the previous tier, you're not gonna survive the next tier at all. This will encourage groups to go back to old raids and gear up alts / guildies. 6. Rework buffs / flasks to be similar to modern WoW 7. Give the option to reset your character to lvl 1 at the start of each Season with a "Prestige" record showing how many seasons a player has played, and what raid tier they managed to get each season. Include world first records etc. "Seasonal" characters can only play with other seasonal characters. So if players don't want to reset, they can't party up with players from the new season. 8. ALLOW BIND TO ACCOUNT ITEMS TO CARRY OVER TO THE NEXT SEASON. BoA gear made levelling SO FUN back in the day. 9. Also, why not introduce a "new" piece of BoA gear to be "achieved" each new season? That'll give players a reason to come back for each season to collect the "new" piece of BoA gear.
I've always thought they could do an entire expansion around timewalking and the bronze dragonflight. The classic fans typically like the lore from warcraft games. They could take this into account for classic+ Why not timewalk and do more scenarios or entire campaigns in any warcraft timeline setting you want. It could just be a framework for a larger collection of content that can all be loosely related. Like a "window into the past/future" sort of thing. Done well, it could be cool. Done poorly a disjointed mess that changes beloved canon. 🤷♂️
I don't understand how they can't just nerf warrior skills and output but say 10-15%, keep the maximum dot counter on bosses from the start, and remove spell batching. Once that balances its self out, and maybe even more nerf--start adding in 'new content' such as the scarlet crusade raid, kara raid etc. The only down side I see will be the new round of bots/RMT throughout another fresh launch. Things such as lotus spawn times and adding chrono gadget to save world buffs from the start will also help with the 'griefing' issue on PvP servers. Which will make world PvP a thing again because there's no 'real' penalty to dying...Just purely having fun trying to capture a Zone for your faction. I have plenty more to rant about, but I imagine most of you who read this far get the gist.
One feature that I think HAS to be developed and included into Classic at some point is an option for NPC allies for dungeons. I played Classic but was way behind and missed the hype train, and I just could not find other players willing to run early dungeons with me unless I wanted to either pay them or rope together irl friends (and I'm poor and friendless so neither of those were options). FFXIV does this really well. You can run dungeons with NPC's if you don't wanna deal with other people or can't get a group together, but the NPC's do less damage so the dungeons takes longer, so there's still an incentive to playing with other people (unless you count for people dying or leaving and needing, but ymmv with these things as always). I would absolutely advocate for an NPC allies system to be included in a Classic+ just so that I can play the damned content. Hell, I'd even be happy with them including the bodyguard system from Legion and letting you hire NPC's (maybe for a gold fee in major cities) to follow you around in the open world. It'd make levelling some of the classes like warrior way better.
Sounds like Classic+ would require a complete reitemization of Vanilla. Throw out most/all of the loot and rebalance around the content, basing item tables on how players play today. They did something similar, albeit on a much smaller scale, for WoTLK classic.
You make some really good points Wille and tbh I don’t think many people were thinking about these important negative aspects. Asking “where would the content fit in” is a really good question
you could work around that - by just decreasing itemlevels on the first raids. and yes - you could implement a few more 55-60 dungeons, since there is not everything available for each class. and the biggest problem is : people are so hard into min-maxing everything. so its the players fault for consuming everything ASAP and to the max - expect everything to be available forthemselves.
If you're worried about "I've done this content before" with a V+ version of, say, Mt Hyjal, then take a look at Old School RuneScape. When OSRS came out, it had many questlines that were only partially complete, and had been completed years prior in "live" RuneScape. The devs decided, instead of just re-releasing those same quests, to expand OSRS's lore in a different direction. So we got Song of the Elves as a sequel to MEP2 instead of Within the Light. We got A Taste of Hope after Darkness of Hallowvale, instead of Legacy of Seergaze. There are elements of Legacy of Seergaze within Taste of Hope, and some of the results end up the same as the new version of the questline plays out, but it's different enough to be entirely unique and very interesting. I don't see why they couldn't achieve something similar with Classic+. Even if it's literally the same zone as Mt. Hyjal, who says it has to play out the same as it did in TBC or in Cataclysm?
Your ideas of making a flatter endgame is really good and I hope they do it. Getting items like DST which last multiple raids is really good. With Classic Wrath, they've already started making such items more accessible via the Heroic+ system. This would definitely be good for classic+. To me, Classic+ would be more than just a few new raids. There is a lot of cool mechanics that came and went in classic. For example, Ret was junk in vanilla classic. Seal Twisting made the spec great at ST but entirely lacking cleave. Then Wrath gutted the twisting tempo, giving us cleave options. Classic+ would ideally give us a Ret spec with Twisting AND Divine Storm, to finally give us the classic spec with decent options. Same goes for other specs. Lorewise, I think this would be a cool setup for classic+: at the end of Dragonflight, we defeat an Infinite Dragonflight boss. However, he escapes in a time bubble before we kill him, never to be seen again. This dragon then pulls a Garrosh and messes up the timeline, just before the Vanilla era of the lore. The result is that a ton of things can happen differently. What if Onyxia awakened Deathwing? What if Arthas showed up in Naxx? How does that change the story? I call this mode 'Infinite WoW'. The cool part about this mode is that the devs do need to do a lot of work, but most art assets are already available to use. And the altered timeline allows us to not only revisit old content, but change (and possibly improve) the lore. Infinite WoW is highly unlikely to ever happen, when Cata can just be pumped out. But man I'd love to play it.
Love the alternate timeline idea, definitely a direction they could use. The raids need to feel completely fresh though, I think if Classic+ is just fresh with a few changes (like SoM) then it will fail because we've all been there and done that.
All they have to do is follow the Diablo 3 formula (though slightly altered). Every 6 months to a year, reset the servers, and add new seasonal affixes. Pretty simple. People will keep playing, especially if they do fun stuff with it. Classic has a huge playerbase, so it benefits Blizzard to maintain Classic, and iterate upon it over time. New sets arenas and battlegrounds would be fun. They could do new raids, but I doubt they would. They could have Classic be an alternate timeline where they keep the gameplay/engine the same, but add new things to it to keep people returning. There are a million and one ideas they could implement, like multi-classing, etc.
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Yeah, I would've subbed except for that. Peddling trash games to make a buck is pretty tacky.
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Turtle wow proving this video wrong
As someone who loved World of Warcraft from the beginning, what I really wanted was to see the stuff that was cut, like the Emerald Dream. Azuregos (and the other 3 dragons) were supposed to be an "Attunement" of sorts for the Emerald dream which was supposed to continue the story threads began in the Wailing Caverns. Obviously we eventually got an end to that storyline in Cataclysm but I for one didn't like where they went with it. I wanted to see the Dream. There's also a portal in the Tanaris dessert that leads to Uldum, or rather that would have led to Uldum. I know Uldum was eventually added, but it was originally intended to be a vanilla raid, and it was supposed to Continue the story or Ulduman. This is the kinda stuff I always wanted. Many of the dungeons had stories if you bothered to do the quests and many of them left threads hanging which were meant to be continued, either in later quests, dungeons or raids. Many of these plans were dropped as the plan changed, and were eventually re-imagined in a new expansion, but the way it was done was very unsatisfying to me. The vanilla quests sotries were not continued much less concluded, I do not like loose ends, or dropped storylines. A big part of why I loved World of Warcraft was because there were so many stories if you took the time to do the quests, things in one zone or one dungeon that were part of something bigger, or that would have led to something bigger. I am aware that the realities of game development mean that a lot of that stuff never gets finished, but I view classic "plus" as the perfect opportunity to go back and finish those stories. I don't want Blizzard to try and fit it into the wow that exists today... I want Blizzard to go back and look at the threads left hanging and finish those ideas, or at least continue them and I want them to see where that goes, a whole new WOW, new expansions, is that the slightest bit realistic, no of course not, but I loved the stories of Vanilla WOW, I want to go back and see where those original idea's could have taken us.
The issue with blizzard doing Classic+ is that it would cost more than 0$ to develop
Best solution , add more raids, add a heroic option to regular dungeons like deadminez , wc, mara , ect,
At 60 theres arena
Done everyones hooked.
@@responsiblerye6012 'Add more raids' is the part that would cost them money, but it's the only way to make Classic+ work. They need to fit thematically, but there's tons of ways to make it work, Uldum for example.
@@responsiblerye6012 add wotlk class balance and modern visuals. Portals to places like bfd
Soo retail?
If that was a issue than classic would have never started. Remember the "you think you want it but you don't". That was Blizzard telling you it would cost them money.
Turtle WoW has done an awesome job with creating a Classic+ imo. I would really like it if Blizzard went for the same direction if they were to make a Classic+
Agreed, I’ve never played it but it sounds really interesting. I don’t plan to play Cata so I got my eye on trying Turtle in the future
I've been playing it too. the leveling feels really slow, even slower then classic originally was but it really puts people back into that old leveling mentality. i've had so many good experiences with small bouts of interaction with people. it's made me tempted to try rp for the first time tbh.
@@alex-dh8zy turtlewow is way faster levling than classic
Totally agree with this. They added a lot of quests, making levelling much more fun!
The costume feature of choosing the HC glyph is top notch
I think at this point Classic+ needs to be it's entire own thing instead of just classic with some new stuff and small changes. A reimagining of the game with some of the old stuff being slightly reworked perhaps, but overall a different game.
WarCraft reforged 😉😉😉
A proper WoW 2
I would want Classic+ to be kind of an alternate timeline to Cataclysm.
??? It would be an alternate timeline without tbc nor wotlk
@@lucapangrazi9217 preetty sure they are saying they want a classic style expansion that happens after wotlk.
Stay sharp.
@@dancinglight8411 this
Would prefer a classic+ that takes place after Lvl 60 Naxx. Take from BC and wrath and blend it in. No need for Cata.
@@dancinglight8411 who is they? Blizzard has said nothing about how they want to do a classic + lol
What you need to do is to create new loot that doesn't increase your ilvl above that of the existing vanilla content. In Classic, the solution is pretty easy -> offer gear for meme specs. Take the example of Phase 1:
-Have boots, belt, legs and wrists not drop from MC. To make sure that bosses still have decent loot tables, we will now have a set for every spec. Paladins for example will have a prot, ret and holy (lawbringer) Tier 1 sets. Goal here is to make sure that MC still has enough loot to be rewarding, while also putting some of the loot in other content. At this point you can be creative.
-Have boots be an exalted reputation reward from a new faction (Wildhammer Dwarves ?)
-Have the belt drop from a new level 60 dungeon, alongside some other blue items that could be well itemised for a few classes (Uldum ?)
-Have the wrists be a craft from a new profession recipe that you get through a big questline (could even have that questline start via an MC drop)
-etc.
You get the point - there are tons of ways to add new content without having you reach ilvl 7000 within 3 patches. Then if you add some vanity dungeons/reputations with vanity items, a mount, a pet, etc. you can easily have quality side content
thats what osrs does to make all the content relevant
Yuuuup!
Will meme specs be enough to motivate 25-40 people to show up and do that tedious shit every week? You'll have the sweaty guilds doing everything no matter what, but you have to think of the average players which make up 99% of the player base. (No, it wouldn't be enough to motivate them.)
@@delornegg that’s why you don’t just have the meme spec gear in the new raids/dungeons/quests. You space it out evenly so that every spec has the same % loot in MC and every other dungeon/raid. Basically you replace some of the existing set pieces from MC with meme spec gear and thus gear that used to be in MC would go in other raids. Also, since the content phases would be longer, you wouldn’t need non sweaty guilds to do every raid every week.
@@Toini01 All the extra jibberish aside. Your suggestion boils down to "add meme loot to old raids to help keep them relevant". That isn't going to be enticing for the majority of the playerbase to go back and keep doing them.
Turtle WoW has already done this and it's been one of the best, most fun times I've ever had in this game. On par with how much fun I had when I first experienced the game in 2007. Would be cool if somehow Blizz would, instead of sue and shut them down (which eventually happens to all servers), purchased their content and hired their team to make it an official realm.
Sadly, I don't think it works that way legally. If Blizz were to publish/endorse 'illegally' made content (anything from private servers), this would throw serious contention against their copyright in the court system.
They certainly could steal ideas though!
It doesn't happen to all servers, I'm playing Warmane since 2015 lol. Fake news. Inb4 "look they closed this other server down see im right!!"
@@Thewilsonaterr warmane 🤣🤣
I've thought about that too but with project ascension and other private servers
no pvp
It's interesting that you mention the vertical progression.
What if classic plus was not so vertical ? What if there were multiple raids/content sources that were of equivalent levels in parallel. What if the new content sitted next to old one in terms of power level so you essentially have more content but it doesn't get obsolete right away because of old content or the opposite.
Also content can take many form they could reshape drastically the game just by adding new mechanics to the game, new spells to classes and so on while keeping the spirit of classic.
Maybe making Classic + a horizontal progression would help create an evergreen system, balance all gear to be roughly near one another with slight upgrades in all the raids, add an achievement system and hardmodes to the old raids to create a reason to run them over for completion sake. Just spit ballin
this would be awesome.
They could add heroic versions of low level dungeons to keep more content relevant and more gear and recipes so you could customize your build. Make pve more interesting by letting people break the game a bit!
this would be awesome
and heroic old raid
So certain unsolicited servers like Ascension WoW? Not sure what can/can't mention in comments about non-official implementations.
the heroic etc is one of the thing that people really dont want. why are you able to decide easier or harder version of dungeon in a fantasy world mmorpg? dunno, it just doesnt feel right to my, but i am maybe a bit autistic or something. one of the greatest things in classic wow is progression. i would suggest to make everything just harder and make new harder content for real nerds. dunno
Heroic deadmines would be sick
Yeah thats why I hopped onto turtle wow. Classic+ is super doable because private servers like turtle have accomplished it beautifully. Would definitely recommend it to anyone who is interested.
Best vanilla server out there
Hopefully if blizzard ever decides to work on Classic+ they would take inspiration from TurtleWoW
Ok, few questions:
1. Does turtle WoW have a fully explorable hellfire peninsula zone, with all content we’ve seen in it in TBC? (Quests, Dungeons, PvP points, etc.)
2. Is turtle WoW constantly adding content to the full scale we see in a blizzlike content patch?
3. Does turtle WoW have a karazhan raid where you can roll up there with 40 dudes?
@@Fabriciod_Crv no no no
@@Fabriciod_Crv The last 2 points apply to Duskhaven. Another solid Classic+ project with A LOT more emphatisis on classes, end-game and custom raids
Introduce heroic mode in Classic and do some class tuning. I'd really like to play Balance Druid without being shamed.
Issue is that the number of players who want this is pretty low - it's just us ret paladins, balance druids, ele shamans etc.
@@ChiefFalque I think any classic player would enjoy reworks/balancing across the board, anything to shake up the meta and enable new play styles would be amazing.
@@ChiefFalque Im sure that the majority of people love the fact that most specs are complete bunk and would hate having more viable options.
Balance changes doesnt matter. We will get speedrun comp in every raid in few month after realease, and anything balance changes can bring its another class being shamed.
Heroic is just bad idea why in the game world there is two same dungeons.
Adding Kara and re-tuned for level 60 would be dope and your other suggestions are fun ideas I would like to see.
Adding Kara to 60 and making it post naxx is an idea I've had for awhile
Kara is actually one of my favorite raids. Yes i know it's very simplistic, easy etc.... But the zone is great, a huge castle with different areas. Great music, bosses are cool etc...
Classic Plus would be amazing. We've seen a couple private servers manage to pull off similar things but being able to avoid all that shadiness would make all the difference.
It would also be cool to see Plus content which is on par with the current Classic "quality" so to say. There is a lot of unfinished/unused areas which could be implemented given the time/money to do so. I hope to see Classic Plus one day but I feel that Blizzard is turned off by the idea of spending the money on developing costs :/
I would love something like the Ascension private server but with the resources that Blizzard has.
I see where you are coming from WillE and your points were valid. For me if their was a classic plus if blizz Didn't wanna add new raids or dungeons I at least want the classes that are "useless" in classic to actually be buffed up mainly Paladin's prot and Ret than Druids. and that their is Tier gear we can buy off vendors for every spec so warriors tier gear isn't for tanking and paladins isn't just for healing anymore. also make it where we level twice as fast this time if we all start fresh again like the Joyous journey buff in wrath but permanently stays in classic plus
Yep. SoM needs to do that 100%.
Agree with this, let us go to a new vendor who will for a one time only convert your judgment item into ret or prot stats.
They literally just need to hire the Turtle WoW team and all the work is done for them.
I asked the team if they'd accept jobs from Blizz. They laughed and said the chance of that happening is zero.
Classic Plus was something i was hoping for in 2019. I wanted to see game going in a new way, to be really seperate game, not just older expansion.
I would like to see Classic using the TBC/Wrath skill tree.
Id rather see things done in the vanilla style, but better tuned. Id like to see enhancement tanks and a reason to play boomies without removing whats unique about them and perhaps more viable prot paladins without giving them a taunt
@@AndrewIHanna While I actually agree with this point of view the only thing I don't agree with is not giving prot pallies a taunt. It is such a fundamental mechanic to be able to taunt swap and stuff that it makes no sense to not give them a taunt.
Project ascension does this , along with tons of other custom content .
@@AndrewIHanna Wrath skills/talents are the best. Classic classes are very unbalanced. Most "classic" purists are mostly warriors and mage players.
I could see the tbc talent trees being fun but only if raids AND dungeons were tuned accordingly, otherwise all the 5 man's will just be a steamroll like wrath heroics.
I've played Turtle WoW a bit and I can say Classic + would be really really fun. I just hope they do it after may when I stop working so I can play 24/7 lmao 🤣🤣 and it would be could if they add more random things through the leveling like Turtle WoW did. They should really look at it like and use it as good example.
About the only reason I'm not playing Turtle WoW is that the addons available for it are terrible compared to Wrath Classic's.
Stupid Legion client letting Questie exist. 😭
@@dosbilliam hahaha there's a questie version for turtle wow too, that's the only addon I need tbh 😂
They should honestly just fucking hire those guys man...
I agree with the problems you pointed out, that's why I think classic + would have to be done differently than just adding raid tiers or whatever.
You would want to make add heroic mode for the leveling dungeons, so they're meaningful at 60. Doesn't have to be all 5 mans heroic available at the same time, could be a rotating schedule or something.
I don't think there needs to be much big "new" content, as much as shuffled content. Change the itemizations up all over the place, change up the tier set bonuses, mess with boss placement, boss health and abilities (not just in raids, but 5 mans too). Maybe add sections to raids and dungeons, add rare spawns with new abilities. You could even add 5 man dungeons, considering there is a heroic mode at 60. Basically, add a bunch of small things all over the place, and shuffle the details around (including class balance) and you'll have a fun, fresh experience.
I think the idea of classic+ made more sense before we knew they were going to go ahead and make tbc classic and wrath classic. It avoids all these issues with "do we need to do it fresh?" and "we've already done it all on the new classic expansions."
Unless they're not planning on releasing a cata classic, which I think a good argument could be made not to, and they go back to the beginning with starting over on a new fresh classic cycle from the beginning. I guess we'll see.
I think raid progression and the timing was always geared towards hard-core players, I knew plenty of more casual players who loved MC/Onyxia/zg and wanted to keep raiding those. The timeline seemed to be geared towards players who were bored of those and not the wider player base.
Yeah all talks always devolve into poopsocking the raid tiers because the vocals just wanna power through the raid timeline to wave their parses around.
Shit like Turtle does well because they just add new stuff everywhere and if a group yells about it not functioning with the existing tiered content, they just shrug it off.
Classic+ is a dead idea if everyone just treats it as another checklist item and not something to have fun with and leisurely play.
One thing I would like to see is dungeons that scale up, but require that all players be in the same level range. So like a Scarlet Monastery for levels 50-60. If they had the bosses drop interesting items for different level ranges, that would be an incentive to run them again. I guess I just imagined heroic dungeons for Vanilla.
I think Classic+ would ultimately fail because there are so many ideas about what it should be that you wouldn't be able to please everybody. For instance, I can deal with the leveling speed of Classic, but I'd never want to go back to half the spec not being raid viable and only warriors having an interesting rotation. I'm going to guess that PvPers don't want to go back to the days when it was rouges, frost mages, then everybody else way behind.
Also, I think Vanilla just came out at the right time, and timing is something that can't really be recreated. It came out after several other MMOs, so the team was able to look at those and see what worked and what didn't. Also, everybody had heard of EverQuest, but a lot of people were scared off by the time requirements. Vanilla was able to position itself as the casual alternative to the other MMOs of the time. So it ended up attracting a lot of people who never played MMOs. All that said, this is a different time. A level of commitment that would have been considered casual back in 2004 is considered no life in 2023. A lot of the old players who might even want to come back won't be able to put in time due to adult commitments, and a lot teens and young adults don't want to have to play one game 10+ hours a week to keep up with everyone else.
While I personally would really like a Classic+, if it were my job on the line, I probably wouldn't risk it.
Class balance should be part of the + if it ever happens
@@alib2374 I agree. But you have a lot of people who think hybrids being forced into healing at end game makes the game better somehow.
Yes, it would. Case in point: TurtleWoW.
There really are a ton of gaps in Classic leveling though. I think adding in more leveling dungeons, quests, and zones would be a bigger boost than you'd think. But yeah as far as endgame it's definitely tricky. I think there's a lot of room for "extra" things beyond just raid tiers. New open world content, new PVP stuff, stuff that focuses on the social/mass guild warfare aspect of Classic that make it unique
There was a way to get into Hyjal in vanilla. Had to climb a wall with some very particular jumps and you could get in there. The terrain was pretty much all there, some areas had invisible walls and another area had road construction signs. Other than that couldn't really see much there other than the terrain but it was fun.
New content would fit the same place they've always put "stuff we dont know what to do with." Half-Tiers.
I know this comment is a bit jumbled and not explaining everything well but basically if you're going to "plus" the game, you're gonna have to subtract a lot of the things weighing it down simultaneously. Class and item balance would solve a ton of it as having more classes using more gear means everyone gets geared out faster instead of "plate or its useless," creating new versions of old items but better in each tier, catchup smaller raids that release about 2-3 months after the "main" tier that also offer various challenge modes to challenge raiders, making farm raids less prevalent etc.
Think of it this way: When you renovate a historical property, its not as simple as building it brand new. You have to take care to make it around the existing framework but improve it at the same time. If you do it right, you get a blend of the modern and traditional that makes people happier with it than either aspect would on their own. It's clear that doing it wouldn't be easy- you do have to tear down a significant amount before you can put things in its place- but if they do it right you can replace things surgically to change only that which needs changing or would benefit the end user instead of with a mass stripping down to the skeleton. If they do this and patch up the holes that have existed for ages, and shore up the weakest areas that were there from day one they have a wellspring of content, a solid frame built on a flawless foundation to constantly rebuild around to bring customers back for years to that comfortable place they've always called home, but with better amenities and more modern comforts than the original owners ever knew.
Definitely look at Turtle Wow, would love to see a followup analysis of your opinion on how that approaches a lot of the questions and issues you mention
go talk to the turtle wow guys. Classic + would be fine if the main raid content didnt change. Just added new dungs at first.
Blizzard needs to develop things a little more instead of just releasing something old. I would love to see a few changes on:
- Talents
- DG/Raid loot (drop more items and to make progress faster)
- Create new items: with the database they have, they can check items there were being used by so many players. Check the classes that are doing this and create new items that can be BIS for some classes at the same time as maintaining the item BIS for others. This would make gear distribution better, thus not needing to re-run a bunch of raids weekly.
- New Raid contents could be fit in between raids. You said: 12 months for new content? Why not add a raid in between. We all know much of the MC loot isn't necessarily good, however having a new raid between MC and BWL, making some new items very similar to the ones on MC. It will make the guilds raid the old content to equip some players and also raid the new raid. Another good example is a raid between AQ40 and Naxx. The jump of stats on Naxx gear is too high and unbalanced, a new raid content in there would be really interesting making the gear gap smaller.
- New raid after Naxx would be awesome, a really hard raid that requires players to push their gear's limit to be able to progress. I honestly would love this content to be released with Naxx as well, allowing players to go either way. Adding the old concept of "dps check" and "heal Check" that we haven't seen in a while, making the progress to stop unless your raid is pretty well equipped.
- One thing that is really important: Alliance and Horde MUST be able to play with Shamans and Paladins. I can't stress how much this is needed.
- Server wise we all know servers have a tendency to become a mega server and something must be done regarding this. I am not a specialist on this area, however it would be nice to create incentives. Something that comes on top of my mind is possiblity of additional loot, rep and xp bonus when there is a gap higher than 10%, bonus only aplicable to the one nation with lowest number on current raid progress number.
Just spitballing here but…what if they turned all the 40 man raids…into 10-20 man raid difficulties and released 4 new raids as the 40 mans in each phase. Something along those lines where the gear is still good in the old content and worth doing while also going into the new content
i like this idea, i was thinking id like to see them give classes 1 or 2 or their later spells to help make some viable and more fun etc. They could drop as tomes in the current 10-20 man content and be pretty much required for the 40 mans. You could have acheivements for doing the raid without your tiers spells, the ultimate being doing all 4 tiers with full vanilla spells and getting a mount or something. Would never happen
As a retail player, I have been an advocate for making old content relevant again. This naturally would come into conflict with classic wow as going forward, the leveling experience is basically Identical if you choose the cataclysm leveling path but will have less content and be capped at a lower level. They have already taken a step forward with including older dungeons in the m+ pool.
Honestly just ab ability to phases into old zones and do the quests for completion's sake would be nice
I guess there are many ways they could go with a Classic+ , either way I hope it happens
I'd personally prefer wrath+. It'll be interesting to see what direction they go.
My money says they'll wipe wrath classic, roll it into Cata classic, and take several years to realize their mistake.
It's almost like a pserver Vanilla+ exists (new content, new races, class updates, new dungeons, new raid, etc), and it's constantly growing. Classic NEEDS to be a living mmorpg. The style changed over the years, which is why players returned to vanilla/Classic. Players want the style back, but want it to be a living, developing game under that style. The #NOCHANGES crowd was always wrong, I said it before Classic launched, and I say it here because I'm right. Classic, derived from vanilla pservers, was at it's core a movement toward an older school mmorpg. Meta players are detrimental to any game's vision. Meta players play the current meta and hate change, which is the antithesis to developing a living, breathing world. Designers need to take back their own vision, but I feel Blizzard lacks such vision. They only put out polls, which lowers any game to it's lowest common denominator. Players will direct any game into oblivion if you let them, and this is what happened to Wow. Vanilla+ keeps growing because it continuously adds more horizontal expansion outside of the broken raid tier structure. You don't need anything better than Naxx, because most raid tiers already do not provide gear sets for many offspecs already. More professions, more recipes per profession, and many more leveling paths with more rep options provide a lively leveling experience.
Turtle WoW is a good look at some custom content for classic wow
Even if you just tuned the old raids, similar to how you would do hard modes in ulduar, that could keep people going back to do that content. Pop a hard mode after each phase is complete, for the former content, with new drops to accommodate the lack of gear per kill.
My favourite theory is still staggering the level cap over a year or two from 20-30-40 so on so we get new metas, dungeon grinds, pvp and so on.
Vanilla classes play like shit even at 60, being stuck at 20 for months sounds like living hell
I think for the first iteration of Classic+ only a handful of changes will suffice:
1. CLASS BALANCE. Imagine all of the sudden underdog specs become viable (Rets, Protpalas, Boomies, SPriests, Arcane Mages). Would you relive Classic experioence as a spec you love instead of the spec that is viable? Theorycrafters go BRRRRRRRR!
2. Itemization rebalance: all of the BiS and pre-BiS loot tables are irrelevant. Guide creators and theorycrafters go BRRRRRRR!!!
3. New quests, some zones' revamp (like Azshara, Theramore, Deadwind Passs), perhaps more questlines
4. Crafting revamp with more useful professions, not just Engi and Alchemy, completely different items redistribution and requirements.
5. Dungeons and raids reblance to accomodate to increased viable specs
6. Honor/Ranking system rebalance to make PvP items more in line with current tier (not AQ40-level during MC phase) and ranking itself less painful
Just imagine how lovely the game becomes when youi finally add all these variables to a seemingly solved equation.
@WillEmmoYT Hello! =) That being?..
Would rather have Wrath+, classes are more fun to play.
Why not all 3 +
They could bring some of that to classic.
Give me vanilla all day everyday. Nothing beats that 1-60 adventure for me. I tire of endgame after a few weeks and only come back every now and then
With all the multiverse sh*t around it could end being that way. We must remember it was Chromie who introduced us to classic, why it wouldn't towards a multiverse scenario?
Imagine them introduce class+ or new abilities or a new buff codex through a raid
I would want them to make it possible for players to join villainous groups, get corrupted, kidnapped or be undercover agent of old gods/Lich King/Burning Crusade etc. Something like a third faction addition but u level up either along the ''good guys'' or separately close to the evil group's base. This is obviously a very far fetched idea that tons of ppl would be willing to try out at least but it'd cost a lot of money as well and it would be a pretty big risk depending on the execution.
Dude yes they should let us play as an evil faction so many fun story line possibilities
This is thinking outside the box. Blizzard needs to take risks like this. Doesn’t have to be this exactly(although it sounds awesome) but something crazy and different is what I think people want to see.
There is huge potential in this and im surprised that Blizz are scared to try it. And on top of the new content they should also focus on class balance, a simplified version of wotlk talents would be great.
We don't want simplified talents. Complicated, customizable talents and class itemization please.
I'm all for class balance, but ret in vanilla was absolutely nothing like wrath paladin, Itemization was completely different and the spells worked in a different way, wrath ret wouldn't not be a "upgraded" classic ret.
if you wanted to fix classic ret, roughly double the amount of damage spellpower gives you, reduce the mana cost of most abilities, decrease judgement cooldown and remove the debuff cap
and in term of itemization, make fast 2 handers with a spellstealing proc and make ashbringer scale with sp :p
" a simplified version of wotlk talents would be great." So you want what essentially has been done by Cata and so forth.... have you Activision drones learned anything about history?
Everyone got mad because you said "simplified" lol. Wrath talent trees have 11 tiers guys I don't think you need that many for level 60 classic+
Phase one of classic plus: level cap set at 20, everyone runs RFC/DM for loot, the raids are WC/SFK/BFD, scale them up to 10 players, remove level requirements on BoP loot, or change it to proper level cap.
Repeat for level 35. Stocks/Gnomer/RFK/SMGY as dungeons. SM/RFD as 10man raids.
Repeat for level 45. Ulda/ZF as dungeons. Mara/SunkenTemp as 10man raids.
Repeat for level 50. BRD as main dungeon, possibly break it up, possibly have new content/bosses. LBRS/UBRS as 10man raids.
Repeat for level 55. Dire Maul, Scholo, Strath can all be 10man raids because of only 5 levels since the last gate.
Reaching level 60 unlocks chronoboon. We play phases 1-6 with chronoboon.
No new content needs to be added. Just gate it by level, and force everyone to play the content that is already there. Right now the vast majority of classic era gamers boost their character 90% of the way to level 60, gamers want new content in that old style, but don't even play all the old style content currently available. Scale old content that they don't even play.
Personally I've always thought of Classic+ being a fork off of one of the original three expansions. I think it'd be great to split off of WotLK, not do Cata, and go with a different development path and philosophy that's more in line with vanilla's.
I think the biggest issue with Classic+ isnt the cost, its the expectation that it has to be greatest shit ever or people wont play it. if every piece of content has to be played by 90% of the playerbase to be worth developing, you may as well pack everything up and shut down the servers. its never going to happen unless bribe the shit out everyone. Honestly, just make a fun raid or dungeon or zone and let that be the bar of expectation rather than retention or participation. That was always Blizzard biggest achilles heel, rather than design for fun, its designed to get everyone to do it.
really depends on the quality of how they handle it
if they have a creative director that can keep the essence of Vanilla WoW while adding and improving on it without losing what's good about the game then it can definitely succeed
I think classic+ should encompass all 3 of versions of classic we had. Games like FF14 are able to keep old content relevant, blizz should at least attempt something similar with the breadth of classic content.
I feel like a true Classic+ would have to reformat progression to horizontal progression. Also heroic versions of all 5m dungeons in the game would be very cool.
From the announcement of Classic I said a cross between it and OSRS in terms of systems would be sick. Make characters have access to every profession, but they take waaaay longer to max, create systems to more consistently grind them, and some sort of incentive to level them (perks, gold making, etc.). Make raid drops way rarer and make it so that there are no lockouts (i.e. for a full molten core clear, you might see 1-2 drops, 0 if you're not lucky) and make them tradeable. Introduce some sort of system like OSRS/RS3 alchemy that gives items an intrinsic value and will never drop below that value. Things like that the give the game more possibilities in terms of horizontal progression. I think the biggest barrier to this is the class system. They would need to make progress somehow transferrable between classes, which kind of gets in the way of the whole idea of being an RPG.
I still think it could be fun.
I recently started on EU classic ERA. I really enjoy it. I wish they would remove the 16 debuffs limit and make the quest log bigger
Rather than taking us into Cata, I would like to see revamping the old raids. Molten core has very little mechanics, but take the dungeon and the concept, gives the encounters new abilities and bring them to level 83 with new loot, and bam you have a new raid to go after ICC.
They could add raids that are more of side grades but change how raid gear works a slight bit, like set bonuses that instead of being apart of the same set, are rather a more sandbox thing where new sets have points going towards what might become a set bonus through armor combination and mixed sets. Keeps old content relevent and isnt exactly vertical though a BIS will always exist
Example might be a set bonus that makes landing a hit when your behind an enemy have a chance to raise your crit by 10% for a very small time. You need 10 points to activate the set bonus, a chestpeice in bwl has 6 of the points, and a helm from a new raid has 4. Wear those two peices and you unlocked it. You can also slot in gems to add points that build towards a bonus that you dont want to replace existing gear with, but the gems would only contribute maybe up to 3 or 4 points max
There is a big reason to do viscidious in AQ 40 in wotlk, scarab brooch baby. Can't believe people sleeping on that. During wotlk back in the day a few top guilds to down heroic lich king had a resto shaman with that lvl 60 trinket.
After that world first lich king with paragon blizzard nerfed that trinket so it wouldn’t be effective at level 80. Very strong trinket during that time
This is why I always say you need trasnmog in classic early. It gives guilds or ppl to start mog runs and keeps older countent worth.
Ideal Classic+ expirience from my view
1. No sub. Buy once it's yours forever.
2. Low-poly style
3. Huge lean towards solo content
4. Open world focus, only instances and raids behind portals
5. Set bonuses have timeless advantages that are good no matter the level
6. Old content stays relevant
7. More low level dungeons and quests
8. More class quests and class fantasy
9. Huge focus on high fantasy aspect
10. New customisation options for vanila races
11. More low level class tier sets and weapons
12. New race specific armors and weapons
13. More recipes for professions
I really like the idea of Classic plus. If done right I think it could be amazing.
imo to make Classic+ work you'd have to:
1. Re-do itemization, especially around class-specific gear and spec-specific sets. Also, reduce the massive increase in power in higher tiers.
2. Tweak class balance(carefully) esp. underused specs. For example re-balance things like +weapon skills for warrior hit chance and make +skills actually increase bow/gun damage in PvE.
3. Move existing 60+ raids and dungeons down to become lower level, for example MC could become a level 50, 10-man dungeon and Strat could be ~lvl 40. This would give a new feeling levelling experience.
4. Create new end-game raids with new gear to chase after such as Timbermaw Hold and Emerald Dream, release as part of normal content cycle.
In my mind, Classic + was more like Classic "what if"....
What if C'thun reconquered Silithus and was heading into Ungoro or Tanaris?
What if we teamed up with Illidan, or if Illidan succeed in killing the LK?
What if Adal turned void?
What if (insert here) ?
Thats what I wanted for Classic +. A completely new story that the devs could have some fun with.
Imagine Chromi bringing us to alternative place where Azeroth got semi destroyed in the way Draenor turned into Outlands
You're one brave Wahlberger aren't ya!? You do realize SJW's now hold a very sharp blade against the throats of the lore team yes? Did... did you see the Drag-On-Queens in the latest expansion? You want a race of androgynous elves to Usurp Illidan and set up a new LGBTQ+ section in Stormwind and Orgrimmar?
FFS people... nothing good comes from modern think. This is why we go BACK...
...they never learn. Star Wars, LotR, f'ing HEMAN! WILLOW! The list goes on, yet you never learn. 🤨😮💨😔
Though, I have no reason to ever go back to Cata for any reason. Wrath was nostalgia but the only thing that would keep me going further is for Classic to take on a different timeline and become a separate game from Retail.
I don't want them to do Cata classic, but....the thing tha tkilled cata (and the game) for me at least was the heavy nerfs in Firelands or the HC dungeon nerfs near the start. Now we know players are lot better at the game for the large part, I don' think these nerfs are needed. Would this make Cata good (with huge changes to Dragonsoul lol)
I don't know, man. Cata had many issues, and that is one, but the horrific slowing of basically every class put a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths. Then they fundamentally changed how so many classes worked, leaving people who had loved their classes for years with nothing to play, and then they just started ripping server communities apart, making everything just an algorithmically designed pool of random players you could never get to know.
@@thegreattaiyou agree. They did the survey about tbc and wrath and the people's vote was clear...interesting to see if they ask next time
@@Archermit do you have a link to the results of that poll? I'd be interested to see it myself
@@thegreattaiyou I don't sorry, I know for wrath I said hell yes cause wrath (for me) is peak wow and when I had most fun and loving it tight now, lot of my friends returned who stopped around cata. I might be wrong, what's good or bad is subjective
@@Archermitwhat's good or bad is subjective but there's definitely things that bring in more people and things that push them away. Not everyone, but most.
Make heroic versions of old raids and dungeons that drop BiS consumes/buffs that rotate every week.
Vanilla+ permadeath servers keep things evergreen, just incorporate best parts of TBC and WotLK and maybe some ideas from other expacs, but mostly just fleshing out Azeroth more and making the place feel even more alive as people use mortal characters to keep the fresh cycle going for themselves
If they balanced the classes and gear properly, gave every class some kind of meaningful rotation or flowchart, and got rid of some of the archaic idiosyncrasies of the old engine, I'd be down for this.
You just will not ever catch me farming world buffs or rep just to zone into a raid, while I get to press 1 button for a few minutes until I have to auto attack for mana or stand there like a dummy because my threat is too high.
They could implement two things:
1) new dungeons during leveling, just regular new stuff to explore not a big deal. And new endgame dungeons dropping comparatively the same gear as raids, but make them mega hard and on a weekly lockout.
2) more item turn-ins. Make raids/dungeons drop pieces of “loot” which you need to farm up and create top tier gear which you can later upgrade with even more materials dropped by the new dungeons and already existing raids.
Yes this would incentivize the tryhards to farm everything every week, but it could just give smaller groups of friends something to do besides 40man raids. Or you could upgrade current raid items with new dungeon specific enchants obtainable via material turn ins and not the professions, similar to ZG enchants.
Or the new dungeons could drop pvp gear comparable to the blue set which could sort of level the playing field at the beginning of pvp? Idk
But new content along the way to level60 is a super neat idea I would totally do it, especially in the 40-50 bracket.
I think they should do a fresh vanilla no changes server and then another SoM with changes relative to what the majority of the community want via survey/polls and drop them at the same time to give ppl the choice on which they would rather play.
New lvl 60 dungeons in empty zones(Azshara, silithius for example) with some sick gear with low drop chance like ironfoe, new unique loot overall to gave us fresh feeling, some little updates in abilities(prot warrior thunderstrike dmg/threat, prot pally taunt, feral weapon dps scaling etc), economy/farm/botting changes, on top of that 1 or 2 raids with some nice story behind it, how naive i am to belive in things like that... But anyway it's still too early imho, i would like to see it after cata, well prepared with ppl waiting for it. Classic hype have a chance to come back but it can't be SoM with absolutely no changes and released during TBC.
I heard an interesting idea where mini-phases cap your level at 20, then raise it by 10 every month until 60. Kinda cool as it makes dungeon gear the bis of the phase and would make more people do dungeons to gear up. Imagine how many SM and RFD runs there would be if the max level was 40 for a month...
Thats a pretty cool concept. At least it would keep all dungeons relevant for longer
Long post of ideas incoming:
1) Expand on questing zones as Vanilla content: BE and Dranei zones, azshara, Hyjal, Uldum, and Blasted Lands, Hyjal. Might be some retconning needed for lore reasons.
2) Scale the world to my ilvl, and adhere to the difficulty scale of vanilla mobs where surprise adds will kill me.
3) Design new dungeons: additional low level dungeons in places like Red Ridge Mountains, Thousand Needles, Desolace, and Hinterlands. Apply the lessons learned from Heroic+ and retail content scaling so that I can, 1) return to a dungeon to fill a role for a lowbie guild mate, and 2) run a challenge mode of old dungeons tuned for max level, raid-geared players. Add transmog so we can collect gear and have it only be apparent to friendly players in sanctuary cities and non-pvp, "green" zones.
4) Retune raids, add mechanics, remove excessive trash in super-sized raids like AQ. A total reimagining of MC, and AQ20/AQ40, and a full-sized raid for Onyxia would actually be sort of lit.
5) Add additional raids from concepts developed and rumored to have been in development like a furbolg raid in Azshara, an Emerald Nightmare-type raid in Moonglade, finish Karazhan as a mega dungeon or 20 man raid for Vanilla. Maybe even screw with timelines and give me BT in vanilla format.
Some repeat content is okay. Sprinkle in the new stuff. Call it Season of Persistence, and when we start reaching BWL let us know you're developing new raids to release ahead of AQ and between AQ and Naxx. Possibly additional raids beyond. Maximum hype so the world population persists, as the Classic world should persist into it's developer's reimagining.
6) And throw those PVP nuts a bone and give them their fair share of new content as well, both open-world and in BGs. Utilize the arena spaces in the world and bring them to life.
Love seeing all the guys reppin’ Turtle WoW. It is a prime example of how Classic+ can be done well. New quests and zones/questing hubs as well as dungeons and activities while levelling on top of late game content with new races that fit into the lore…. The only issue is the ms, imagine that on blizz servers!
What about capping the level at 30 and then raising it slowly to 40, then 50 and finally 60. Would create whole new metas, new builds, new BIS, and make it worthwhile to develop new low level dungeons/raids.
Would make it more easy for us casual scrubs with IRL stuff to keep up
@@JjackVideo yes but only if you start playing at release
I want wrath+. Community driven Post wrath content. Finished zones and raids that were abandoned during development, completely new content? Finished features that didn't make the cut in vanilla, tbc, wotlk that can be finished now in the style of wrath, instead of ones touched on in later xpacs.
Wrath+ would be the prime expansion to split roads into creating a separate storyline rather the Cataclysm FUBAR. Only issue is.... they don't have Metzen so it'll be crap either way.
Commenting on this video before it goes viral
In other words bro pls pin comment.
@@Redouan13 ; )
Phase 1
MC
Onyxia
Timbermaw Hold (20 man)
Phase 2
BWL
ZG
Karazhan Crypts (10 man)
Phase 3
AQ40
AQ20
Un'Goro Caverns (40 man)
Phase 4
Naxxramas
Bastion of the Scarlet Crusade (20 man)
Phase 5
Scarlet Citadel (40 man)
Round the stats up of all items to not be worthless trash. Change some classes to be more like their TBC versions to be viable. Add tons of flavor text. Fill in the gaps with hints for unsolved lore questions. Add a bit more AOE leniency for tanks. Take the very best (not overpowered or lazy) aspects of vanilla, TBC, and wotlk and merge them.
Allow the Corrupted Ashbringer to be cleansed in Scarlet Citadel with a massive questline starting in Naxxramas similar to Scarab Lord questline, but much grander.
I haven't played WoW Classic since 2021, but here are some ideas I think classic+ may need to consider.
1: Completely rebuild the classes and archetypes so that any class or specialization can offer something to the raid/party, or at least give players more options in how they want to play.
2: Focus less on large raids and add more smaller scale options. Classic has four 40 player raids, two 20 player raids, and one 10 player raid. Granted my memory is a little fuzzy on exact numbers.
3: Perhaps instead of having bosses drop gear change it to materials that you turn in to a craftsman NPC to make an item, or if you have the right profession you can make it yourself.
So, since I found this video a month late I doubt this comment will get much attention, but honestly classic plus is a lot easier than that.
You just take a page from retail and even just the next couple of expansions and add in heroic modes for everything, this lets them make the old raids harder, add new mechanics and even makes it so all dungeons have a reason to be ran at max level.
Also doesn’t take much effort to develop as it’s mostly just adding more HP/damage and maybe an extra ability or two.
A fresh server starting from vanilla would be awesome. To freshen up the 1-60 grind they could simply change some of the bosses up and add different loot options without needing to make a full new dungeon. Maybe add the quests that improve the leveling in tbc and add the sped up exp from som.
People aren't going to run mc/bwl/aq40/naxx every week, they didn't do that in vanilla classic and they didn't run every single raid in tbc every week. People just pug the earlier raids if they still want loot from those. No-one is forced to run every single raid every week. Are you still running naxx 25s alongside ulduar with your guild?
Could add world bosses that drop rank 14 gear, when the boss spawns in there could be a giant announcement to both horde and alliance, when you attack the boss, it auto flags you for PVP. Could add low level raids that drop BIS gear for the twinking bracket / create low level gearsets that have bonuses for each piece acquired. In hardcore there are some that are doing lower-level dungeons with 10 players however they are extremely below level requirement. Would create a fair chance for anyone who wants to get into twinking to get best gear, could add the NPC to turn off XP. Would create more competition in lower level PVP brackets... Could add another 40 vs 40 PVP zone similar to AV, except you work on summoning a world boss and killing it before the other team to get PVP loot. They could just include all expansions into classic + and adjust the level required to run them / tweaking the gear and also changing the boss fights / adding bosses. Bosses could even have RNG with how they react to you, so you wouldn't know how the fight will play out, each encounter type will drop different armor. Really looking forward to seeing Classic + become a thing, however hope they do it justice and give us a magical place to explore.
Here's something novel; how about a new MMO all together?! Something that is truly fresh.
I just quit wotlk classic because I thought I could relive the joy I had the first time, but nope,. It's more or less the same thing, but it's not fresh, it's full of bots, and min/max elitist raid-loggers are everywhere.
You nailed it right at the end - "entirely re-thinking the formula that makes people like classic in the first place".
What would be cool is if they did a Classic + according to the original design document for WoW. Where the dungeons, raids, classes and abilities that were scrapped from Classic and put into TBC / Wrath were actually in classic. I think that would be a really good reason for people to play classic +.
Also. People that think that Classic+ would cost more than $0 to develop has to consider that WoW Classic, TBC Classic and Wrath Classic also cost more than $0 to develop. They had to put classic zones, abilities, gear, quests, revert itemization and stats to how it was all on top of the current engine. It was not cheap or easy to do it. Development teams cost money, regardless if they work on current, previous or no content at all.
First of all, we all damn well know how ActiBlizz works these days, sadly, so even a slightest idea of actual Vanilla+ is just a dream. But hey... so was WoW when it was first put on a whiteboard. A dream which turned into a legendary eperience and altered gaming history in a massive way, while making money for ActiBlizz. So it's not impossible if AB is just willing to invest into it for 2 years in order to cash out big time in the next 5 afterwards.
New content and experience is easily done - as some said, look at Turtle WoW. You can literaly sit for 5 minutes and come up with something like this:
- New Dungeons from 10 to 60, depending on zone. Plenty of options - Azshara temple, Furbies "Capital" behind the gate Northern Azshara, demon-themed dungeon in Felwood's Jaedenar dungeons, Winterspring elemental/undead/demon themed dungeon in any of the relevant areas in the Mid-South, Silithid dungeon in Tanaris/Ungoro as a full-out prequel to AQ opening event, etc. the list goes on.
- Heroic mode for Dungeons (as done at 70 in Outland) - same pattern, viable Epic items from last bosses, literaly tons of new gear to play with so gearing is a fun, new and less repetitive thing to do, so You don't spam UBRS for 200 times again just to get the swords/trinket etc. More dungeons = more viable options for gear per spec = more places to visit/run.
- Update of Class' Talents and rework of "gimped" specs = makes alts even more wanted and fun to play, gearing those specs would be new thing to do, more reasons to have new dunegons from 10 to 60 + the Heroic mode of them.
- Add new bosses to Molten Core and AQ40 - easily done, just open new corridors and boom, new content, add gear supporting the "newly viable" specs.
- New 20-man raids to fill in time between Main raid-days - focus on social aspect, mounts, pets, generaly stuff you can run while getting drunk with your friends, bringing back the experience the real "old-timers" cherrish, not the gear hunt, but the whacky AQ20s and ZGs.
- New World bosses and Time-relevant events (like Elemental Invasion) - supports both competitionand gives even semi-casual players a new experience across the world to join a pug or semi-guild run to down them. Essentially will push more ppl into joining an active guild just to do these and 20-man raids for more community content.
- New Tier 0.5 (or similar thing) to support the additional specs and just giving out new interesting bonuses, so that ppl can mix Tier gear with a small 3-set bonus from dungeon epics. Make it a Heroic-dungeon thing maybe (and progressive).
- Make Heroic dungeons and old raids drop a specific currency, which you will be able to upgrade gear from the previous content (Raid/HC dungeons) to a higher quality to better align with higher tiers, aking up for more gearing options per spec. (ex.: supporting AoE threat for tanks, or AoE dmg for Locks, Mages, Boomkins, etc.)
- New cap for professions - new craftables, more potent alchemy and enchanting paterns to cover for the new PvE content in the game.
- Rework of Gathering professions - new nodes, additional drops, Black lotuses and Arcane crystals (or even higher item of such type) dropping by random from high-level nodes.
- Making Gathering highly accessible so players can go out and efficiently farm stuff for themselves or for the guild, to support community aspect. I deeply miss the farming nights while boozing over Ventrilo and roaming Winterspring or EPL as a party of 3-4.
- Make nodes "pickable" by anyone withing 30 seconds from initial pick - adding onto above point, it would be awesome to just roam high-lvl zones farming with guldies for the needs of the guild itself, supporting guild crafters in their needs. We really REALLY need community aspect back, not just more efficient ZUG-ZUG tactics and raid-logging. I'm a hardcore player, but damn, F that stuff. It's boring... Game needs more depth. Game needs more community stuff!
- Add new sub-locations in zones, systems of caves, etc. for End-game farming sand new quests, that'a very small change to the existing content that adds whole new experience almost for free.
- list goes on...
So yeh, we can all hope that one day... the game will become something "Plus" and more and will start a different path that will give players fun for more then just a set period of time between expansions, or Seasons (12 month cycle is really effin small for a MMO game, tbh).
As others have already said: Turtle WoW has absolutely NAILED Vanilla+. There's content for every level range, new zones in unfinished/inaccessible parts of the map, ideas that Blizzard dropped finished and so much more. All content remains relevant while they add new things.
For Vanilla and TBC put the qol changes from wrath like 1.5s mount and 1 click mines (maaaaaaybe q bgs from anywhere).
Add hard modes to every dungeon; but it doesn't give unique loot, just more, or a higher drop chance at the best stuff in there.
Do a blanket change for hard modes to give variety of actual difficulty to dungeons. Some dungeons' hard modes will actually be borderline impossible to do at the appropriate level, and others most pugs will probably prefer to run it that way: Like triple hp/double dmg or twice the mechanics and attach vanity items or titles to them given that they are done within the appropriate level bracket. Or do achievements for that. Find out which dungeons turn out to be the hardest on HM and put the "best" achievements on those. Make achievements account-wide.
Lower subscription price and add a cash shop that only sells vanity stuff (BUT no new mounts introduced to the xpac that they didn't exist in; just access to other faction ones).
Then run it back every 3-6 years.
When this version of wrath ends drop only two servers of each - classic/tbc/wrath "pvp focused" server. Enable transmog for all of them.
Make one version of the servers with very few changes. Fix bugs but no balance changes or re-working items. Final, polished-state 1.12/2.4.3/3.4.1 status, but with transmog.
Then, for the other version, make balance/class/game changes how you see fit, add new qol, new mounts, boss difficulty challenges etc.
For those three versions of servers you can import any character you've played (granted it 'fits' in the xpac) during the three expansions that are getting cycled over and over.
For those "PvP" servers, make insta-max characters with boosted-like gear available to create and gold not even a thing, gatekeep gear behind solo-achieveable pve/pvp achievements over time, but gatekeep super-bis a little bit harder; only so much as to make a player put in time for it. So like 20k HKs and you get access to GM weapons type thing, but the next best thing is not very hard to get, like 1k hks.
Run endless arena seasons and feature tournaments at times. Tournaments could come around that have silly rules but also give a silly pet to the winners. Only ever sell/reward with vanity items/titles/achievments.
The populations will drop over time but the game would be played pretty much until the heat death of the universe.
Id love too see horizontal progression with a focus on world content instead of raiding or arena.
New content = Phase 7 on. Grim Batol = Raid, Karazhan Crypts = Raid, Hyjal zone portal = Raid. Use Hyjal as a zone, redo the map to open the zone northwest of EPL, open the zone east of wetlands/loch modan. you can introduce new battlegrounds, introduce heroic versions of dungeons and raids and tune them to be that much more difficult.
Easy peasy.
1. New scarlet raid same time as bwl with same gear lvl, just abit of diffrent types and higher raiding scale (ppl wanna do it cause it will have diffrent items same type).
2. New parts inside current zones with quests, like caves hidden, or hidden passage way to a new part, stuff and new mobs (rares and specials etc combined with quests and outher things)
3. New dungeon around around 55-60 , can combine with the scarlets raid so you get raid and a dungeon. Kinda like BRD, somethign thats 55 ish that you always wanna come back to because it has 2 items that are really usualful.
4. If you get some small new at brackers 10-20, 30-40, 55-60 the game will feel fresh. And by new , quests, parts in zone, something small and diffrent.
5. Change certain classes so they are working, mana for elementals and boomie and retri. Cat viable etc. Not much, not much at all just viable still mid or bottom tier.
6. World buffs ofc (ganking part of the fun)
7. No max debuff slots (tune new raid for this).
Classic+ VOILA!
I wouldn't really care how they did content. What they need to do is balance and tune all specs (and itemization) so they're viable in raids and aren't instantly disregarded as memes or unworthy to bring. If I could raid and perform well as an Affliction Warlock or a Prot Paladin, I'd experience the content differently than before and thus won't feel like new zones and bosses etc. are required to make it worthwhile playing :)
What could be interesting could be a kind of sidegrade progression.
Instead of getting "better gear" we get "specialized gear" similar to resistance gear.
Imagine all 40 player raids being on the same level, but we need to get gear from each to progress in another raid.
For example what if the first boss in Molten core drops "Dragonkiller weapons" that help us progress in Blackwing lair. Out of the hides of the dragonkin we kill we make fire resistance gear that helps us progress more in Molten core where we now get specialized flame gear that keeps us warm and reduces slow and attack speed reduce abilities from frost abilites from Enemies in Naxxramas. Finally we find powerful Artifacts of Kel'thuzad that help us kill demons to kill Kazzak and use research from the spider quarter to protect us against venom from Silithid troops. Because we help the bronze Dragons we get rewarded with Artifacts that protect us from Onyxia and Nefarians magic.
We would have to gather specialized gear or maybe even ressources from each dungeon, thus avoiding the problem with raid tiers and making the previous raids obsolete.
Classic+ just needs to follow the same model as old school RuneScape and they’re golden.
1) small, dedicated, passionate dev team
2) start from where the game was at its peak (debatable, but general consensus can be roughly selected)
3) add new content in an “alternate timeline” style. Maintain the feel and aesthetic of classic wow, but select from the best additions from retail. Osrs does this by taking the best content/aspects from rs3 and reskinning/remaking them with that old school feel/principles… this allows them to skip a lot of the development cycle for new content and accomplish more with fewer resources
4) focus on content replay-ability.. this allows you to not have to rush out updates and be more selective in what you make as players don’t rush through content and then crave more. Things like challenge modes for raids, speed running rewards, hardcore and Ironman modes, etc. less focus solely on gear progression and more focus on things like status symbols, cosmetics, achievements, account building. Can also give some type of reward cycle for alt building. These all lengthen the lifespan of content without being too grindy for no reason.
5) rely extensively on community feedback, either a poll system or veto process allows devs to make decisions while maintaining a finger on the players pulse
6) profit
It's a personal wet dream of mine that Blizzard makes "Classic Plus" to be a whole new thing of its own, combining Vanilla, BC, AND Wrath into one big united expansion. Some ideas of how it would work:
1. Heroic versions of ALL dungeons from all 3 expansions... scaled up to 80.
2. Heroic versions of ALL raids.... scaled up to 80.
3. Streamline the levelling process to 80 by allowing us to level in ANY zone at ANY time (just like how retail works now).
4. Seasonal content: Since all the raids are scaled to 80, each season introduces a RANDOM ORDER OF RAID CONTENT. That means, gear from each raid is scaled to whatever tier in the random order it was assigned to for that season. Example: Classic plus season 1: T1 - Ulduar, T2 - Blackwing Lair, T3 - Molten Core, T4 - Sunwell, T5 - Karazhan, T6 - Ahn Qiraj, etc. etc. going upwards until EVERY SINGLE RAID HAS BEEN INCLUDED. Meaning, for that one season, there's one penultimate raid that everyone is racing to complete. Sure, this will be a balancing nightmare for Blizzard, but come on... they're a multi-million dollar company, and at the end of the day it's just tweaking boss hp/dmg numbers, and gear item levels. Rework the damn gearing.
5. Make the raids HARD... so hard that if you don't at least have gear from the previous tier, you're not gonna survive the next tier at all. This will encourage groups to go back to old raids and gear up alts / guildies.
6. Rework buffs / flasks to be similar to modern WoW
7. Give the option to reset your character to lvl 1 at the start of each Season with a "Prestige" record showing how many seasons a player has played, and what raid tier they managed to get each season. Include world first records etc. "Seasonal" characters can only play with other seasonal characters. So if players don't want to reset, they can't party up with players from the new season.
8. ALLOW BIND TO ACCOUNT ITEMS TO CARRY OVER TO THE NEXT SEASON. BoA gear made levelling SO FUN back in the day.
9. Also, why not introduce a "new" piece of BoA gear to be "achieved" each new season? That'll give players a reason to come back for each season to collect the "new" piece of BoA gear.
I've always thought they could do an entire expansion around timewalking and the bronze dragonflight. The classic fans typically like the lore from warcraft games. They could take this into account for classic+
Why not timewalk and do more scenarios or entire campaigns in any warcraft timeline setting you want. It could just be a framework for a larger collection of content that can all be loosely related. Like a "window into the past/future" sort of thing. Done well, it could be cool. Done poorly a disjointed mess that changes beloved canon. 🤷♂️
I don't understand how they can't just nerf warrior skills and output but say 10-15%, keep the maximum dot counter on bosses from the start, and remove spell batching.
Once that balances its self out, and maybe even more nerf--start adding in 'new content' such as the scarlet crusade raid, kara raid etc.
The only down side I see will be the new round of bots/RMT throughout another fresh launch.
Things such as lotus spawn times and adding chrono gadget to save world buffs from the start will also help with the 'griefing' issue on PvP servers.
Which will make world PvP a thing again because there's no 'real' penalty to dying...Just purely having fun trying to capture a Zone for your faction.
I have plenty more to rant about, but I imagine most of you who read this far get the gist.
Wouldn't mind a form of classic+ that keeps content at lv80, but adds some retail content as horizontal or alternative progression.
One feature that I think HAS to be developed and included into Classic at some point is an option for NPC allies for dungeons.
I played Classic but was way behind and missed the hype train, and I just could not find other players willing to run early dungeons with me unless I wanted to either pay them or rope together irl friends (and I'm poor and friendless so neither of those were options).
FFXIV does this really well. You can run dungeons with NPC's if you don't wanna deal with other people or can't get a group together, but the NPC's do less damage so the dungeons takes longer, so there's still an incentive to playing with other people (unless you count for people dying or leaving and needing, but ymmv with these things as always). I would absolutely advocate for an NPC allies system to be included in a Classic+ just so that I can play the damned content. Hell, I'd even be happy with them including the bodyguard system from Legion and letting you hire NPC's (maybe for a gold fee in major cities) to follow you around in the open world. It'd make levelling some of the classes like warrior way better.
Sounds like Classic+ would require a complete reitemization of Vanilla. Throw out most/all of the loot and rebalance around the content, basing item tables on how players play today. They did something similar, albeit on a much smaller scale, for WoTLK classic.
You make some really good points Wille and tbh I don’t think many people were thinking about these important negative aspects.
Asking “where would the content fit in” is a really good question
you could work around that - by just decreasing itemlevels on the first raids.
and yes - you could implement a few more 55-60 dungeons, since there is not everything available for each class.
and the biggest problem is : people are so hard into min-maxing everything.
so its the players fault for consuming everything ASAP and to the max - expect everything to be available forthemselves.
If you're worried about "I've done this content before" with a V+ version of, say, Mt Hyjal, then take a look at Old School RuneScape. When OSRS came out, it had many questlines that were only partially complete, and had been completed years prior in "live" RuneScape. The devs decided, instead of just re-releasing those same quests, to expand OSRS's lore in a different direction. So we got Song of the Elves as a sequel to MEP2 instead of Within the Light. We got A Taste of Hope after Darkness of Hallowvale, instead of Legacy of Seergaze. There are elements of Legacy of Seergaze within Taste of Hope, and some of the results end up the same as the new version of the questline plays out, but it's different enough to be entirely unique and very interesting. I don't see why they couldn't achieve something similar with Classic+. Even if it's literally the same zone as Mt. Hyjal, who says it has to play out the same as it did in TBC or in Cataclysm?
damn, i gotta watch the whole video before making comments like this
Your ideas of making a flatter endgame is really good and I hope they do it. Getting items like DST which last multiple raids is really good. With Classic Wrath, they've already started making such items more accessible via the Heroic+ system. This would definitely be good for classic+.
To me, Classic+ would be more than just a few new raids. There is a lot of cool mechanics that came and went in classic. For example, Ret was junk in vanilla classic. Seal Twisting made the spec great at ST but entirely lacking cleave. Then Wrath gutted the twisting tempo, giving us cleave options. Classic+ would ideally give us a Ret spec with Twisting AND Divine Storm, to finally give us the classic spec with decent options. Same goes for other specs.
Lorewise, I think this would be a cool setup for classic+: at the end of Dragonflight, we defeat an Infinite Dragonflight boss. However, he escapes in a time bubble before we kill him, never to be seen again. This dragon then pulls a Garrosh and messes up the timeline, just before the Vanilla era of the lore. The result is that a ton of things can happen differently. What if Onyxia awakened Deathwing? What if Arthas showed up in Naxx? How does that change the story? I call this mode 'Infinite WoW'. The cool part about this mode is that the devs do need to do a lot of work, but most art assets are already available to use. And the altered timeline allows us to not only revisit old content, but change (and possibly improve) the lore.
Infinite WoW is highly unlikely to ever happen, when Cata can just be pumped out. But man I'd love to play it.
Love the alternate timeline idea, definitely a direction they could use. The raids need to feel completely fresh though, I think if Classic+ is just fresh with a few changes (like SoM) then it will fail because we've all been there and done that.
All they have to do is follow the Diablo 3 formula (though slightly altered). Every 6 months to a year, reset the servers, and add new seasonal affixes. Pretty simple. People will keep playing, especially if they do fun stuff with it. Classic has a huge playerbase, so it benefits Blizzard to maintain Classic, and iterate upon it over time. New sets arenas and battlegrounds would be fun. They could do new raids, but I doubt they would. They could have Classic be an alternate timeline where they keep the gameplay/engine the same, but add new things to it to keep people returning. There are a million and one ideas they could implement, like multi-classing, etc.