At this point we’re complaining about getting what we as the community have asked for. A majority of the changes we complain about have been in response to problems we’ve had in the past. The wow token, for example, is and was a solution people buying getting their accounts hacked. This provided a safe way for people to purchase gold since it wasn’t feasible to stop people from buying gold. Dungeon finder came in response to the community looking for easier ways to access content. Character transfers and boosts came come community demand. Moral of the story is us as consumers need to accept that we ourselves influenced the very changes we now complain about.
You are right, but the developer does 100% also have the responsability to understand what requests made by the players are good and which ones are bad. The players dont always know what they want, but if you want to make a good game and you are a good creator you will understand the diffrence. But sometimes the devs do not understand and sometimes blizzard does not care anyway because stuff like boosts and p2w is profitable.
u got it. blizzard gave gear for free no daily grinds no nothing, just log in and play. oh what a surprise, people are still unhappy and still not playing after literally getting everything what they asked for.
You are definetly not alone and the devs learned a lot from how shit shadowlands and BFA were when it comes to respecting the player's time. As I said in the video, the problems WoW has are not linked to an expansion really, its about the fundamentals. TWW is not bad, on paper its 100% an above average expansion. Its just that an expansion would need to be extraordinarly good to bring back the gigantic number of players who gave up or to bring in a significant number of new players. But yea, for people who are into WOW right now the expansion is great
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 dude i think u just lost passion for wow in general. been playing since wrath and this expansion has been one of my favorites ever, got 2 new friends into the game and they're loving it.
You are absolutely correct. Part of the problem is the "selfishness" in our current society. They play the game like it's a constant race to be "the best" and they have no understanding of a game that you can just enjoy at a slower pace and still be able to progress. The effort is gone for dungeons. Instead, it's been replaced with a pre-dungeon effort where you have to learn and know every single detail and be able to perform flawlessly at a super high pace with a group of people who want to rush through because they're chasing the shiny at the end. You used to have a conversation before a dungeon, discuss the plan, have a little party outside the entrance while everybody waited for the tank to show up. Make friends, share jokes, dance, and throw emojis out... people connected for the fun of the game instead of just rushing through to chase the next carrot being held out in front of them.
I mean you could play retail wow in very slow ways, go for pet battles, farm old transmogs, old achievments etc etc. That is not the problem. The problem is that you cannot be a part of the real MMORPG part of the game, you cannot be a part of the progression without playing like a sweat. As I said in the video, I think you should do so much more with gold. If I trully understand the market and know what is what in the economy, why isnt the game letting me progress at all through that? Its not like it would be easy either. But yea, everything is about dealing with 15 mechanics at the same time while trying to be the first on the dps meter.
@ivanthespacebiker5390 Right, I find it hard to articulate, but that's the problem. You can do all of that, but there's no community about it, if you want to play a slow enjoyable game of substance you're left to do it solo and the end game content is just non existent for that type of player.
@@nolangillentine773 True. How could there be any? Everything is extremely difficult and fast paced that all your attention needs to be on doing everything you need to do. And I partly get the appeal, but when the trade is most of what make an MMO an MMO I think the trade sucks. I can go and play league and DOTA if I want a real challenge, I want cool progression and community when I play an MMO
The problem with WoW is selfishness in society??? Anyway I jumped straight into mythic plus as a new player at the very end of last expansion and sucked really bad at first. I then met some nice people and they helped me stop being a noob! Now I play and socialize with them daily. It's actually way more about gameplay than pre dungeon prep. You need to know your class and be able to react to all of the different situations. The tanks can take a unique route to pull specific packs, the retarded hunter might pull too many mobs and you need to use a defensive. You need to learn the boss mechanics before but that takes 2 minutes lol. also about the carrot on the stick, I got keystone master on the two guys I'm playing for this expansion and I'm pretty satisfied, it took about 3 weeks of playing after work and some weekends. I'm now putting the game down until next season and have time to type all these comments to weird cognitively dissonant youtube commenters like yourself!
Ye. Sometimes the stories in classic are amazing sometimes they are shit, at least you are not forced into 4-5 hour long campaigns that are basic and empty
@@MikeyJ232 What part exactly? The part where the 6th dip shit girlboss character did what was typical to end in a predictable result? The highly foreseeable twists? The writing is the shittiest shallow dei bullshit and you need to stop trying to lie and say it isnt.
Honestly, as a Chinese person who started wow in vanilla, recently picked up since a 5 year pause on the game. Please go play Warcraft 3 before Wow, that’s how I started wow and what still kept relating to…
The story of retail is the thing that pushed me away, maybe its a nostalgia,the fact that I grew up with warcraft 3's campaigns, and that I still play them to this day.
Nah man its not nostalgia. Its not like the story in WC2-WC3-Vanilla-TBC is some kind of legendary shit (wotlk was up there tho) but it was the damn vibe that is lost, and that has nothing to do with nostalgia
Doesn't fix all ills but one thing I can suggest you do for retail is to play on a popular RP server. Does nothing for something like M+, but it's a world of difference atmosphere-wise all the same.
@@ivanthespacebiker5390that’s the awesome thing about moonguard! we have an addon called trp3, and it’s common trp etiquette to not initiate rp with someone who doesn’t have that addon. my bf plays on the server with me despite not roleplaying while i rp actively and no one ever approaches him, even if we’re together. it’s also trp etiquette to only initiate rp with someone if their trp says that walk ups are welcome. the community is incredibly respectful of non roleplayers because we actively encourage them to join for the atmosphere all the time! we love u guys and want u to have fun :^)
Roleplay is actually really bad depending on how good you know the lore. Most people sadly don't know how to write good characters and play them accordingly, or understand how races work. I tried too years ago, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Too many "main" characters, everybody wants to be *the* exception. Maybe if someone can ignore it, it won't be a problem for them.
@@JohnRengo-h4w Roleplay is not 'forced' on the players, is what I feel many are not considering when people suggest RP servers. You know how people are silent on most hub cities in retail? It isn't like that on RP, and it's not because everyone is speaking in RP. There is just awareness that socialization is more important to that server community of players. I find it interesting that you find the idea of characters treated with more importance as distasteful (this is especially made awesome thanks to the addon Total RP, where you can make the character's name to what you want and add an bio and so on). If anything, server character reputation was one of the most important things of the vanilla to mid-wrath era. You knew the jerks, the best profession folk and the server jokers. More exceptions makes the world more of a MMO, rather then the arcade game nature Blizzard wants the game to be.
@@LordNEG I never said its forced on anyone, only that trying out RP will lead to encountering this effect. If someone doesn't care about roleplaying, then I see no reason for why they'd consider an RP server in the first place. I'm also surprised that you don't actually get what I meant. Its not about "importance", rather how almost everyone wants a main character who's story is often completely unbefitting of their race, just to make themselves unique. This however leads to a lot of these beginner RP players to say things which end up being nonsensical from the story's perspective. Its not about your IRL personality or any personality at all. Exceptions stop being exceptions when they become common enough, and inexperienced or poor RPers don't realise this, and end up being annoying.
At least someone who shares this with me. Wasn't a huge fan of the updated artstyle they introduced in WoD, and they only pushed it more as years went on. To me, Classic to Cataclysm/MoP had my favorite artstyles, and it was one of the main reasons I played the game. Was screensharing my game with a Runescape player, and he noted how much more he preferred how Classic looked over Retail.
Modern WoW is a bloathed mess, a miss-mash of retcons, re-hashes and do-overs. It's just a jumbled up cluster F that doesn't know what it is or what it wants to be. It's not an MMORPG anymore, it's a Semi-MMO collectaton with a hard focus on single player experience. This is why I prefer Classic, it's an MMORPG, where the world is the main character... It's alive and dangerous, and it doesn't care if you do or you don't. But Modern WoW on the other hands, feels more like you are led through a theme-park to see every ride and attraction it has on offer. It looks shiny, but it's all just smokes and mirror under the hood, and not ''real'' like how the game used to be in the Classic format.
Exactly, man. Classic doesn’t always care about your safety, your immediate progression, or even your time. But it strikes the perfect balance, enough to feel real and genuine without crossing into being outright frustrating or stupid. That’s what I think makes it so special, even more than all the other great things about it. No one seems to talk about this aspect tho, which feels like such a huge positive not just for Classic, but for games in general. Sometimes, it’s good to have something in your game that upsets the player in the short term but pays off in the long run. That kind of risk makes the experience so much more rewarding. Retail, on the other hand, plays it so safe. Everything is so polished, sterile, and artificial that it sometimes feels like it was AI-generated, I swear 😂
Even worse. It's like a theme park with a roller coaster and area representing each expansion. Each new expansion the leadership at the park lead you to the newest content. But to get there you have to ride a train skipping the every old zone. Seeing the old forgotten zones, not updated, seeing a thousand quests but not knowing which ones are for the new content or content you don't want to do.
@@charleshill3503 I totally get what you're saying and classic is much better than retail in this regard. I will just add it's no fun to visit a theme park alone. It's actually probably depressing and would make you hate everything and everybody there. Blizzard calls it a themepark. It's a themepark. It's fun to do themepark things with your bros in VC like visit the new dungeons and learn how they work every season.
It makes me sad, because i want to like retail WOW. I gave it another shot recently and felt so dang overwhelmed by it. It has become too fast paced and meta based for me. I miss the slower pace. The fast pace of retail stresses me out. Im really happy for the people that enjoy it though. Once my computer is finished being worked on, im going to be getting on the fresh classic server to re-experience the slower pace that i find relaxing. I dont think im going to even download questie to be honest. Kind of just wanting to play it by ear and go where the wind blows my character in the world.
@@drizzy11244 i know man, im in the same boat. Every few months i feel that itch to play retail again, i go for a little while and then it hits me again
I'm focusing on Classic as well and it's been awesome! I almost exclusively played alliance since 2005. So I'm leveling a horde. The game feels new and fresh because theres quests and cities I've never experienced. But I can take my time and have fun.
@muratsar3251 maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I just don't feel the pressure to play in a meta way on classic as much. It's my own subjective experience. I'm not going to debate on that.
Having played classic, SoD and retail extensively, Retail is just made for the general MMO population now. I have also played Final Fantasy 14 and many of the elements are similar with modern warcraft. Classic is an old school style RPG with social elements while newer versions of the game are about player progression and end game content. Pay to win elements and the gear treadmill have been around as long as TBC. The only reason why the original version of vanilla had fewer seeming elements of it is because people were so new to the game. In the end every raid tier you replace tier sets, trinkets and other things. People have always sold and bought gold for items and boosting services. The main reason gearing has become faster and more accessible is that the silent majority just don't have the sort of time to spend on things like they do with classic. The real reason WoW hasn't grown much is because people either play older versions of the game that they were fond of, or have played retail and moved on. The game has been out for twenty years and new players are less common due to the popularity of other games. No new expansion will bring back players in the way it used to, no matter how good it is. Retail will always continue surviving due to the fact many players who still play, have played for many years already.
I got back into wow when I hear about SoD, getting to explore classic wow with more fleshed out classes. The downtime between phase 4-5 pushed me to cata, and the fire lands downtime pushed me onto retail. Retail was everything I’d hoped the game would be and was promised back before vanilla wow was originally released. It was fun for a month or so, M+ was admittedly fun. After going back to classic/vanilla, I’m reminded of how the classes are still broken and the damage is too spikey. I like the slow pace of cata and the more fleshed out abilities and the slow pace of the game, but I like the classic world, dungeon and flavor. SoD was the closest to capturing what I’d want from wow. They just need to tune the game down a little bit from that version and it would be perfect, with added dungeon content.
I haven't ever really enjoyed the story since Wrath. It was clear they ran out of ideas of what to do. There have been individual zones where i have really enjoyed the story, like Suramar in Legion and Uldum in Cata, but nothing like the original trilogy where i read all the quests. Then Blizzard started catering to the nonexistent "modern audience", making all the female characters unattractive and moving everyone toward androgyny. As soon as you watch the War Within video of a powerful black female with one eye and one arm, you can see they have no desire to be serious storytellers anymore and are just chasing their activist fans for those ESG dollars. I think the worst part of retail though is how it just tries to rush you through everything-the leveling, the story, the endgame. It makes it feel like a job instead of a respite from my job. I don't despise retail, there is still a lot to like. But it sucks at enticing new players that don't have ADHD to play the game and stick with it. I completely agree they need to get rid of all the pay to win, level boosts, and WoW tokens. Make enticing content that is actually fun and relaxing and people will keep that sub going a lot longer than playing the new expac for 2 weeks and then quitting again.
The real point where they ran out of ideas was at the end of Mists of Pandaria. Up until then, everything in the game came from established lore, some of it going all the way back to Warcraft II. And you can tell. The only really great story since then was Legion, and even that just reused an old concept from the universe. Basically, they haven’t made anything truly unique or Warcraft-like since 2004. At least they made good use of what they had up until around 2012-if we’re being kind. You’re right, though even if The War Within had an amazing story, the game constantly pushes pushes pushes you toward the endgame, directly or indirectly, every second. Honestly, I dont think there’s any hope left for Retail as it is now. My only hope is that we get some kind of reset in the future thats where I got all my hopes lined up
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 the game is so old! why would a new player want to go experience things intended for thousands of players at a time alone? it pushes you to the endgame because that's where the players are!! Would it be better if they removed everything except the current expansion? Would the game really be better if there were thousands of people stuck leveling through wrath alone 15 years after it came out?
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I’m not sure how up on the lore you were at the time of Legion, but that wasn’t reusing an old concept at all. I consider Legion to be the completion of all the threads that were down back when the events of WC2 BTDP were canonized leading into WC3. Every expansion from Classic to WoD continued plot threads from various questlines leading up to the Legions inevitable return and ultimately Sargeras’ defeat. Everything that came after Legion was leading up to the Shadowlands crap which in my opinion was where they truly ran out of ideas, since that execution and story by Danuser and the new team was absolutely abominable
Your first mistake was calling the level boost P2W. Leveling in retail takes no time and neither does getting gear. I have two entire bank slots full of Warbound gear for my alts ready to go and can level 1-80 in two evenings. I wouldn’t even call the token P2W either. What are you winning? Getting carried in one dungeon doesn’t get you the required IO nor will it always get you gear. P2W is when the cash-shop sells direct power gains.
The fact that the Leveling is seen as such a trivial, boring part of the game that they would even think to offer an option to let you skip it is an issue in and of itself. It's about the principle. If the most efficient money making method in a game is getting a real life job and investing the money into tokens, something is lost.
@@unbelievablegoblin You literally are encouraged in GW2 to insta ding to lvl 80 by getting hundreds of level up tomes and lvl 80 tokens. Hasn't been an issue since it's inception.
@@unbelievablegoblin GW2 is unanimously one of the best mmos on the market and has been for years, you're coping hard if you think otherwise. The fact there's no monthly sub makes it even better.
You thought? lmao when i bought shadowlands, i didnt feel like playing it anymore after 3 days lol dragonflight was ok i suppose but also didnt finish it - like 2 or 3 zones, but the new flying system was nice still on the fence about buying war within - before it came out i saw the places and i prefer the outside instead of being inside of a big underground mine wotlk was epic, would be more epic if i was paly or dk cata was a total meh pandas i enjoyed so much, i love playing as one i expected more of lords of draenor, was under the impresion i will literally be commanding big armies in real time - they could have done better with player homes and still make them useful to this day legion was nice and unique with the suramar stuffs - many people were sad about varyan being gone, but i had no strong feelings whatsoever. Tirion Fordring being gone? Now that was something i did not expect, totally derailed me and feels like im one of the few. i was high and let my friend try the new expansion but i did not try alliance at that time and was completely baffled. bfa? it was just another expansion i suppose
@@MikeyJ232 Bro this is the problem. The people who love it is bec they been playing for years and are over 30 y/o xD. I tried to pull my friend into the game (he's 22) and we both started to notice cracks into the game very fast. We never made it out of tutorial island, I was about totell him DF was ass but once he paid 60 dollars and invested a lot of time configuring addons the game gets better, LMAO, do you realize how dumb that is?
Anyone playing WoW is living in the past anyway. The game is finished up, Blizzard is just stringing it along for money because they know people will pay. WoW is NOTHING like what it used to be and it's a fucking shame and what they did pisses me off. The game I started playing in 2007 seemed like it would never fail at the time.
bro I spend more time laying around dreaming about WoW's potential than actually playing the game. Mythic + is not in a good spot and Mythic is almost impossible to get into because mythic + and Delves don't scale up to Mythic levels I don't get it.
People have been paying for carries for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since the beginning. Gear isn't the real end game of WOW. It's all about mounts and collectibles.
Gear used to be the real end game, its not anymore sure. Getting a high ilvl set right now is not even close to the feeling you would get by dropping a really good and rare weapons back in vanilla and to a lesser extenet tbc and wotlk. As about carries being in the game, of course they were and some were also done using botted gold, but 1 - not all of it was, there were a lot of people who went into GDKPs with their own gold and 2 - RMT gold was way less present because it could get you ban
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 The development team have essentially told their base that gear is just a never-ending mouse wheel. Gear is so meaningless now that it's basically trash, and it does literally become vendor trash in a couple of months. The mindset has changed. The gameplay is still fun though imo.
@@msscott22 they release m+, high level delves, mythic raids and rated PVP and a ton of their effort is going into these things that require you to have good gear to progress through. Its still an MMO, gear still matters. Its just extremely fucked up and bad
GDKP sucks if you can RMT. If not, why would it suck? It currently sucks and will forever suck because of RMT, but in a perfect world it would be awesome
I like the war within so far but it is also the first retail expansion I've ever bought and played through. I think a major issue with WoW is how the dungeons and raids work. In retail, you don't get the dungeon/raid experience because you level up so quickly that by the time you want to do a dungeon/raid, you can already easily solo most of them on mythic difficulty. I really like the Timewalking dungeons, I just wish it wasn't limited to a certain expansion each week and that it always had all the older dungeons/raids that are easily soloable now. Timewalking actually allows retail players who are new to experience the dungeons/raids as intended originally, but also allows for people to solo the raids to farm drops after they've had the experience of doing the dungeon/raid how it used to be.
The old content needs to be updated. Not graphically or even the quests. But old systems need to be removed, reputation grinds need to be dramatically faster, mobs need to be brough to a balanced level.
They simply made too many bad expansions in a row. It was looking bleak when they did 1 bad 1 ok xpac, and then once in a looong while you would get Legion which was amazing. But then they started doing 2 bad 1 ok, and that was just insane. I personally am still burnt out from BFA. And then I came back to give it a chance into Shadowlands, instantly saw it was the same garbage and gave up. They also VERY MUCH moved away from the original WoW formula. The game today is made for the world first 50 players in the world, and 2-3 months after they clear it ? Then after 10 nerfs for you. They keep leaning into the hardcore endless time consuming side of WoW, and as such have just grinded out their middle base and anyone that cant keep up. Most of us who were once super hardcore simply ages out and no longer have 15hrs a day to put into WoW, as such you start to fall behind or sacrifice sleep/family time to keep up. They are no where near fresh or riding a cultural hype train to get players to do this. And they keep promising non stop that they will stop with the World First tunned bosses and they never do.
True. The effect of Shadowlands on WoW is not talked about very often, but I think it might be the second or third most influential expansion. First would be vanilla and I really think Shadowlands is second because before Shadowlands you could say that WoW will one day come back and no one would say you are insane (if they were not a hater) but now? You need to be veeeeery optimistic to think that WoW will ever return to a fraction of its former glory and that expansion was the tipping point. Two bad ones in a row was clearely too much.
Wow is adding stuff that shoulda been added 15-20yrs ago .. they are still trying to claim "new races" on new expansions and it's just a diff skin of the race currently .. wow retail is horrible, they are soo behind the times with ideas there's no catching up because it's too late
I think you’re misunderstanding something here, most players don’t care about the story, the ones that do are the ones that go for the lore master achievements, and complete every quest they find and read every in game book they find. It hasn’t changed since vanilla. The the only thing that’s changed is that they’ve added cut scenes (which they’ve been doing since wrath) and I’m not sure what’s wrong with that. But my point is the story is supposed to be something you’re actively looking for. Wow has never just handed it to players at least until recently.
@@catrinastars I think people not caring about the story is just another side effect of having a shit story, the people who used to care or who would care simply dont play. I was a high end mythic raider back in BFA so I was a gameplay first kind of guy I guess but I can definetly give myself as an example (as well as most my friends and family who played in the past) - the game fell of hard for me when the story got so god damn bad. I think an mmo does not need a good story to succeed it just needs one that is not the most basic bland disney and nonsensical bullshit of all time
i loved the pain of traveling long distances, lacking gold for skills and mount and the fact game made me to level for killing mobs. Screwing economy in AH fas fun aswell.
Theres no hope. Sorry to burst your bubble... Theres no team in the world that could be big enough and understanding enough of the classic fantasy not to mention loving the classic fantasy artstyle and feeling to be able to reproduce it in wow. When wow came out lord of the rings was fresh, dnd was 3.0 and warhammer was dark and gritty. Oh yea and kids raised on metallica became game developers at blizzard! This will never happen again. And the modern blizzard employee has NO IDEA WHATS COOL. No idea what the word even means... They think disney and marvel are whats peak art in entertianment... Thye have infantile tastes.
Newer player here, i started around halfway through dragonflight, mostly without help and i think i got to a respectable level, im not among the best of the best but after seeing the stressy players i dont even want to hang out with the best players anyway. The resets kinda do bother me, my gear keeps becoming trash feels bad. Sometimes the time gated grind can be frustrating but i learnt to switch things up, exploring other things since there is SO much content to this game. This season I bought a lot of explorer gear with speed on it from auction, maxed it, enchanted it, added speed gem’s to give even more speed, and i’m running my speed character at +50% run speed through older expansions quests and stories and professions, cleared classic, then northrend, now outlands (didnt realise i messed the order up). I think my gripes are with players, they behave too competitively with short attention span brains, its like people expect to have end game gear BEFORE even playing the game, they speedrun the content, get the max level gear, now bored and they quit the game until its time to redo all this. i learnt to just enjoy the game at my own pace, on my own terms as there is plenty of content to pick and choose on a daily basis.
As for handling the gold problems - i made several characters, so i can do all professions myself, the skill points are so time gated i cant even fall behind others who only do 1 or 2 professions! That way i dont need to buy the enchants or consumables off others, saves me a lot of gold which can go towards the wow tokens, or expanding the warband bank to hold many many reagents XD
My problem with this xpack is similar to Dragonflight: The crafting revamp in DF failed. In DF when you got to lvl 70 (max at that time) your crafting profession could craft base level 70 gear. However, it was pointless as the gear you got from world quests had a higher Ilevel than the 70 crafted gear and was upgradeable. This made crafting pointless except for blacksmith to make the gathering gear for alts to sell mats to others and tailoring for bags. Even alchemy, which is essential for higher content was destroyed in DF. In TWW, they took the DF lessons and made them even worse. Now, when a player gets to being able to craft lvl 80 gear, their crafting skills aren't even maxed (they were in DF), so it makes crafting max clevel (crafting level) crafting tools even harder. With those changes, and the issues I saw with how they did their patching since launch (literally 11 weeks in a row where they went over their time they allowed for patching, and some of those patches were extremely broken) I actually unsubbed from this game after only 2 months after this xpack, and don't plan on going back anytime soon. This is coming from someone that was subbed for all but one month in DF, which is the longest I've ever been subbed to WoW, and I've played on and off since launch.
Would be awesome if it focused more on the world, and less on gearing up to raid and shit like SoD. The strength of classic is the slow and deliberate pace of traveling around in the world accomplishing your little things. If the expansion focused more on adding rewarding little things to flesh out the emptier zones it would be awesome. I really enjoyed the sleeping bag adventure in sod, that's the kind of thing i think would be really successful in a true classic expansion.
The thing is expansions as a concept would be bad, at least how they are now. Even if they somehow bring an awesome standalone expansion to classic and retail too for that matter it needs to be very diffrent, mainly the old content needs to not be wiped out. Same goes for progression
I’d like to see them redo the whole world and have class specific leveling path that takes you through old zones. Every class would have its own path. But they would need to undo all the old content.
As a player who started with bfa being my first mmorpg, retail just isn't for me. In 2019 when classic came out I learned what mmo truly is. I care about mechanics, but not more than people, and classic forced me to play and interact with other players. As result I made lots new friends. I really can't say same for retail. Also tones of both games as said in this video are different. Classic tone feel like it's a war, reatil tone is too safe for my taste
I was gone for four years. I came back subbed for a year bought a $90 amount bought a bunch of name changes. I love this expansion. I’m all in. I don’t know what you’re talking about. All these changes are what people asked for and I’m not saying they’re all good or bad but they changed the game based off of other people complaining. Do I like the feel of classic wow Moore yeah it’s nostalgic but the game is fun. Still they’re not too many options out there that are better than World of Warcraft even in its current state.
i play classic for what it is and im a relatively new player. Never really bothered with retail, it looks uninteresting and kinda pay to win. I've played tbc and wotlk a bit and imo classic/vanilla are just a better gaming experience
Retail is not what wow was for a lot of people so they left. TWW feels like dragonflight with some changes but not all that great. Classic feels a lot better to many people, but the game is so figured out its either not fun to play who arent min maxing everything or they just arent playing since player numbers are kinda low. Anyone who denies this is coping or blind. There needs to be a refresh. This is coming from someone who has played tons of both versions and quit for good a month ago
GDKPs absolutely ruin classic servers and heavily promote RMT because the token doesn’t exist. Level boost is not comparable. The boost isn’t even worth buying anymore with how fast leveling is.
@@Mothman777 i dont get it, it does not seem to me that u need to be really smart to understand that GDKPs are not the problem, but the fact that they are run with RMTed gold. As i said, GDKPs are currently bad for the game, but not because they are bad on their own but because blizz cannot take of gold farmers and their bots
thinking strategically in short terms is a sickness of our modern industry, which doesnt affect only the gaming industry but all industries. Fast money and rising shares is all that matters even if it means stomping the brand and the company into the ground in the long run, because who cares. With the short term money they can found another 5 new companies and you wouldnt even realise it.
big ups for my guy....imo tww is the best wow has been since legion but i still get the feeling that i need to do a lot of stuff...im just chilling in fresh hc rn raidlogging sod and i have way more fun...mayb im after all a classic andy
Great video. Cheers man. I last enjoyed the game the most in Burning Crusade because my real life buddies played it a ton. The music, the atmosphere, the first new races. But I still really enjoy listening to the music, reading the old paperback novels I have on my shelf from time to time, or logging into wow and watching videos about it. I just don’t have the time to enjoy it even if I wanted to.
@@mckdogdrums3543 the music is great man. One of my favorite, if not my overall favorite track comes from shadowlands, no matter how bad the game, the music team is always on point
to each their own i guess, i quit WoW (after 15 yrs) for reasons other than the game about 4 yrs ago, this past August, i returned to begin (or not) my journey into WoW again, and im SO GLAD I DID!! the game, for me personally, is in a great place, and suits my current playstyle and availability like it never has before, im totally enjoying myself and am now leveling my 7th champ to max and two of them from scratch (Evoker and another Dracthyr),. I've also been killing it doing Anniversary stuff. most of the stuff i see people complaining about are things the community asked for over the years, and well, this is what you wanted right? I like WoW again, was never out of like with it totally, just bored i think, but now im back and having great fun! hope all of you are too.
The thing is, even if the stories themselves would be on paper the most brutal stuff u ever heard (they are extremely far from that) it would still feel Disney because of the presentation. Visually everything is so soft, the voice acting is so soft, the artstyle and visual design is so soft. Presentation matters. You can tell the lore of something like Warhammer 40k using a deep dark voice or using Dora the explorer, and even tho the stories would be the damn same, the end product would be so diffrent. And all of this is of course assuming that the story itself is not a Disney fiesta, and it is
@@ivanthespacebiker5390I wonder if rebooting the universe , with WoW Awakening rumor with High Elves and Orges, new area in vanilla world would bring WoW back to its golden years?
I did not get into it because at the end of the day who gives a fuck anymore? What are they gonna do? Ruin the economy? We already have wow tokens and the economy is still busted since garisons were a thing in WOD. The situations is so bad in retail that bots are not even important anymore
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I do not agree as i lost quite a few people to complains regarding bots and how they ruin the game preventing actual players from farming zones etc.
The thing i dislike the most about modern WoW it's the dissonance between the skills of my character and the real damage they do. In the first few expansions your character was weak and leveling was a struggle and the skills kinda reflected that: your skills were kinda boring looking and did mediocre damage unless you had good gear, so when you achieve the gear and do good damage it feels great, but in moder wow they skills are flashy-looking and sound powerful and destructive but they do no damage unless you have good gear so it feels wrong and boring. What i'm trying to say it's that the game feels wrong it's like if your character didn't grow in power but instead it was recuperating said power.
@@eduardoubilla4307 *Im gonna cast a powerful torrent of dark void energy on this murloc for 5 second while at the same time afflicting it with dark words of power* - murloc at 50% HP. Might as well kill Murlocs in classic in Elwyn then
Bro, its my favorite zone. That chat, the zone itself. Idk man it all feels like home to me. I wished i had screenshots of some of the insane things I saw in that chat channel
They successfully patched the community out of the game. Looking in as a former player, it seems Genshin frickin' Impact is as much of MMO as retail WoW is anymore, and that game all but hates multiplayer play and almost never features any. And a 4-player co-op like Warframe effortlessly blows retail WoW out of the water in that regard, something I never imagined I would say. I felt it setting in already when a friend got me to play Legion with her again, and when her guild fell apart at the end of it, I just felt no desire to play anymore because it was only truly fun with a pre-existing group and friends (on top of BfA's story taking an atrocious nosedive and it becoming clear Blizz is all-in on borrowed power shit and Marvelization of writing).
I don't care about anything endgame, "gearing" or really even multiplayer part of it tbh. Gearing is just bigger numbers for the same gameplay experience. Multiplayer is just you contributing less than a single player RPG and not being able to go at your own pace. But I love the vastness of the world, the art style, class design, and beautifully designed zones. However, I feel like that's not enough for a player like me to warrant $15/month, which already seems like an archaic type of fee even for people who enjoy the intended endgame experience or whatever.
Blizzard entrusted the soul of the game to people who played it soullessly. A lot of former players have reached the 'I don't care what happens to these people' point with the story.
@@gregquinn642 yea. The devs will at the end of the day make a game that make sense to them, so its so important to have devs that understand what matters
I got hooked on WOW the minute I entered Goldshire....18years ago....but I started being worried after wotlk and Panderia was a real let down.I quit playing dungeons because of the verbal interaction and the freaking speed run which did not allowed to pick loot.Since then I kind of run along but not really enjoying myself. Sure getting new gear is nice it is not satisfying in the long run leaving you with the feeling of "working" for the game.To sum up I really agree with this video . not to mention professions
Except FF14’s model isn’t perfect either since it’s a massive time sink to get to the current content. Plus do we really want to force new players to play through bad expansions like Shadowlands?
Yea, RP is very personal, if you are into it its very hard to get spoiled by anything blizzard could do. I am not an RP person so i cant talk to much on it
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I mostly solo RP on Moon Guard but every now and then I have random encounters with other players and then get caught up in their long-leggedy drama for a bit. The restrictions of the F2P account makes it a very interesting experience when I've played as a subbed player since Vanilla.
For me classic doesn’t interest me. I can’t go back in time where mmo was new the friend were new everything was novel . The guild I made the new memories I made at the time. None of that can be reproduced. The game was a container for all those external things. Just reproducing the container can’t roll back time, can’t make an experience new again can’t bring back the feelings you remember. And also can’t bring back the challenge as a lot of that was the fact that at the time all we had was thottbit for reference .there was a challenge. now it’s what is posted on TH-cam or wow head etc. classic itself as a game I find boring now. Been there done that feeling mixed with the nagging loss of what once was and can never be again.
Agree 100% especially on story, feel, atmosphere! That is totally what is missing, it does not have that iconic Warcraft feel, i think perhaps last time its been present for me was WotLK & Legion was good…. and counter to most, i enjoyed the feel of SL. But that said, the chromie time is a disaster, the simplification of npc and monsters are depressing, remember those elites in Nagrand or Ice Crown? Anyways, professions suck, i dont even bother, dungeons are meh, no personality, i have no idea of the story, there is nothing to follow, no memorable key characters, guess the Magni stuff was okay, but its not like following Illidan (kidding me?) or even Jaina or even nestingway expeditions haha. Anyways, agree on all counts on this vid. Ive been playing on and off since BC, sadly its no longer “Warcraft” its agenda driven woke culture disney BS that i dont want to, nor will ever care about. Truth be told only reason i still play this is that my wife still loves it and we play together.
Ironically, I have to disagree with your take right at the start. Quite frankly, I find the idea "the devs making the game for the hardcore WoW fans" a bit ridiculous. There are tons of complaints not only for the game's story, but artistic direction as well, not mentioning gameplay. For the visual part, the problems people list are generally the same: the game looks much softer and smoother now. WoW looks more similar to a game like Sims or Fortnite, rather than OG WoW. I also literally can't watch the cinematics anymore as of DF, they are simply cringe, with unenjoyably bad dialogue. I myself no longer play the game because of these reasons, so if the WoW devs really have the goal to appeal to the fans of the game, they don't do a particularly great job at it. I personally always thought that WoW became stagnant after WotLK, they simply kept doing the same stuff over and over again. Look at how many new and refreshing things were added in DF, including Dragonriding. Just to understand my perspective, Minecraft, a literal sandbox game, added their version of this dynamic flight around Legion's release. Ridiculous. We haven't even gotten a genuen "buffer" class or spec until DF either. I genuenly don't think they can turn around from these waters anymore, its been more than a decade. Current WoW is a mediocre, but entertaining game, which failed to build on its past strengths and continued to use the same formula, with almost all of the new systems failing hard throughout the expansions.
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 They do love it thats for sure, but I can't say they are all hardcore WoW fans anymore. I mean, when the biggest WoW streamer who was there since TBC stops playing your game after SL, its a sign that many other players also did the same, likely even before him. I saw people say that DF's story was the best so far with amazing villains, but I doubt they actually knew the prior expansions at all. So if anything, they are making the game for the current playerbase, I think that is a more acceptable term to use.
I enjoy twinking and gold making in retail, the communities are great around them. I get grossed out being forced into TWW content though and try to avoid it. The soft/hard reset every phase/xpac gets old once you've seen a few. The ability bloat is also insane, makes me really not enjoy my max level characters.
FFXIV takes a LOT of cues from WoW, but it diverges in that there's so much more outside of the main story quest and gear progression. It keeps its older content relevant. Housing, as chafing as it is to get into, allows guilds and individuals to set up RP hubs like cafes and clubs or even just give players an avenue through some form of creative expression, even if hardly anyone visits strangers homes out of the blue. New emotes and class agnostic transmogs (that aren't eye sores) are being introduced to the game constantly, many of them themed, and they're not afraid to show skin either. All this to say WoW's problem is that it's developed with a one track mind and it's too afraid to diverge from the same path it's followed since vanilla-retail. They need to stop funneling the lion's share of development resources and players into raids and leaving everything and everyone else to flutter in a stagnant wind.
I haven't even purchased the War Within yet. But I'm still playing Classic Era. The lack of community in retail is a huge aspect for me, and that it's not instant gratification in classic. There is something about getting online, playing for 3 hours and only gaining 3-4 bars of exp. Then waiting around for guildies to help you in a dungeon. It feels like a bunch of people/family who want to play a game together. Sometimes I'll get online just to chat. One of the guild officers hosts a real life radio show 1 night a week that many of us will tune in to, request songs and talk about the music. --THAT is what WoW is about. Not what flying mount we just purchased. Additionally, retail has become too complicated. I've only dabbled in each expansion since WotLK. But each time I come back, I'm more and more confused with the spells. The groups needing to absolutely faceroll dungeons with no explanation. And if you make an error, the whole group disbanding. It's just not fun.
It brought me back! Then a month and a half later I quit.. AGAIN! I just feel like when I take a break, my catchup is huge and unenjoyable. I just wish PvP was given a tiny bit of respect and effort. Running Delves was fun for a little and Mythic+ is boring af now.
Modern WoW is proof that developers need to protect players from themselves. Many of the worst changes were things which players specifically advocated for, without understanding the detrimental effects on the game. Now, those effects are in your face and unavoidable.
Skill based progression systems are the future of MMO's.. Character leveling/classes just makes it fall apart eventually.. We have seen this time and again with every MMO with a leveling system and the few with skill based progression systems end up standing the test of time.
What is that supposed to mean? Progression built on in-game challenges instead of time spent? I mean, classes aren't really problematic by themselves, they serve the fantasy of the world after all. What do you mean by these exactly?
@@JohnRengo-h4w Nothing wrong with classes but it's when you get locked into a class.. Have you ever learned a skill in real life? It's the same thing.. You train at it and you get better at the skill whether it's a type of martial art or trade.. You don't need any other systems in place.. Things like abilities and talents could be unlocked with whatever skill you decide to use and gain skill points in, it's used based progression.. WoW should have never gotten rid of their weapon skill system from Classic WoW, they should have gotten rid of character leveling instead and improved on it.. When I was working on a private server it was something I intended to eliminate, I converted all the classes into various skills and ended up with about 50 skills and when you raise a skill you get abilities/talents to go with it and you sort of stack them up, players were given a hard cap of 700.0 points which worked out perfectly, it means they could max 7 skills at 100.0 points each.. Unlocking the final talents/abilities at 100.0.. Stats also were governed by skills and professions became apart of the same skill system.. You could essentially have a crafter with 700.0 points dumped into crafting abilities only and no combat skills, it essentially made "crafters" a class.. Your character attributes would raise along with your skills, casting spells and raising your magery would gain you intelligence, using a stealth ability would gain you in a stealth skill and agility, using a two handed mace you'd gain strength, go out mining and you gain stamina, you could also set skills to lower/raise if you wanted to change your build.. Gear would have been restricted to what your attributes were but I never got that far. I found that it was easier to have skills go from 0.1 - 25.0 and for every 25.0 points is when the skill improved and the character would unlock new abilities and talents. Here is a example Tactics was one of the skills I added Tactics (Warrior) 0 0-25: Battle Shout, Commanding Shout 26-50: Demoralizing Shout, Shield Bash 51-75: Disarm, Tactical Mastery 76-100: Mocking Blow, Warbringer Tactics (Warrior) Tier 1 (0-25) Improved Shout: Increases the duration of shouts by 5%. Battle Shout: Increases attack power by 5%. Tier 2 (26-50) Commanding Shout: Increases stamina by 10%. Demoralizing Shout: Reduces enemy attack power by 10%. Tier 3 (51-75) Shield Bash: Reduces the cooldown of Shield Bash by 10%. Disarm: Increases the duration of Disarm by 10%. Tier 4 (76-100) Tactical Mastery: Increases overall tactical effectiveness by 15%. Warbringer: Reduces cooldown of charge abilities by 10%.
Cant say I agree. MMOs should not focus on progressing through skill alone, its an RPG. You should be able to progress by playing a role and that is more than just your class. Being a blacksmith, being a rich dude, being a carry etc etc. Plus, if the progression would be through player skill, who decides where the line of player skill is? You would literally have to use a bar that says "this is an average player so it has average gear" and then well, u get in a ton of issues - first one from the top of my mind its a lack of perfect balance, classes would still not be equal so people with equal skill could have huge diffrences in their progression. There are of course a ton of other problems with that
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 the most balanced games I have played have been MMOs where skill is the main form of progression, Ultima Online, Darkfall, Mortal Online, and a bunch of others, what they do is dial back on the gear progression so that the power creep isn’t as high, your skills outweigh what you wear.. Depending on what skills you work typically determines your class. use based skill systems are also more fun. UO came out almost a decade before WoW in 1997 and came with a skill progression system.. It’s still there and you can still play it, Outlands is a lot of fun.. It is very balanced, grindy and fun.. But it’s also a sandbox.
@@Eyrothath I mean, as I said I did not mention all the problems, I think there is a huge ammount of them - too much to cover into a comment section (but I have to agree is an interesting topic mate, might make it into a video and put the deserved ammount of effort into responding). But what I can say, and its not a diss on those MMOs you mentioned, but I am saying, the fact that I only heard of Ultima Online says something about them. Something is up with them since they are far from really successful, not sure what but if that is the progression system present there I would say that might be a big reason
What’s you’re source on the gap between wow and the runner up? They don’t release player numbers. I would also argue that the runner up is a different version of WoW lol
The runner up is definetly not another version of WoW. They dont release numbers but there are some ways to guess, thats how we knew that for a few months back in Shadowlands FF14 actually surpassed wow
I think you bring up some good points on some things classic does better than retail such as atmosphere and less ubisoft-like mechanics and pay 2 win. But the problem with any static game like Classic is that you can't keep replaying it forever. At this point, it's been there, done that for most of us. Also retail does many things much better than classic as well. Classic does not respect your time (incredibly slow and monotonous leveling, downtime, long flights, no modern QoL), is not alt friendly at all, has mostly tank and spank basic mechanics, boring class design and too slow paced gameplay. It also just has far less content, almost no collectibles etc. It was good back in the day when there weren't many games to play, but nowadays there are far more games worthy of your time than you have to play before you die. The fast pace of retail allows you to get the most of your limited time on earth and skip most of the crap so that you can actually experience other games. Playing 5-10 hours a week of retail is far more worth it than in classic is the bottom line, especially if you've played classic before.
I would say classic respects your time a lot more. I start playing at level 1 and every second I keep playing is good and rewarding. Its easy to understand, I dont have to waste hours learning what weakauras addons and bosses do to be able to start - not to be good but just to start playing the game. I dont invest 100+ hours into a character that becomes average at best the second a new patch drops since my gear is now not even close to being as good as it once was. Retail is the definition of asking for time when its not the case and throwing all your time out the window after 2 months for no good reason. Collectibles are nice for sure and I would love classic to have more, but when there are 10000000 mounts, toys, transmogs etc almost none matter after all. You are right on the QoL stuff, classic could improve a lot there, like a ton and I hate classic purists who are against that, for example dual spec added to the new fresh servers is amazing. As for been there, done that, you are right. And even so, classic keeps pulling people in. if retail stopped right now and never iterated, no one would play in a year. Plus, retail has been "been there done that" for years now, I would say since Legion. This last patch is the best testament to that, we had this sht (90%) in dragonflight too. Every xpansion and patch is the same
The War Within was the last straw, i've become apathetic towards to work of modern blizzard, which is worse than disliking the game. I'm playing TurtleWoW which is a much better experience and what classic+ should be imo but i can't trust that blizz won't gamify their future plans with classic and turn it into a watered down version of retail
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 yes. The classic wow experience focuses on the world and rpg elements whereas the modern wow has become a bunch of UI systems where u hop into various gamemodes from the capital city loby and never have to interact with anyone
can't believe all this time, i actually prefer vanilla wow phase 3 (bwl release ) there are servers focus on side contents like leveling survival mode, negative reputation pvp, actual farms, jumping quests, fornite bg, pokemons arena, sims house in ogri/storm, and more modern custom quest chains to polish the zone story. there will not be a single big thing that can fix wow, its multiple side little things that tell the same story differently.
Hot take and feel free to rip me a new one. I can't get through tge pre cata leveling. I always gat stuck in the late barrens and late westfall and end up going back to retail. I actually made it to max level in cataclysm even though i was also playing wrath. Not to get the wrong idea i didn't really like bfa or shadowlands. I respect the hell out of classic and love watching others play it and i fell in love with hardcore but i can't get through it and now that i am a whole husband and father i don't really have time to anymore.
8:41 I mean why are you even qing for M+ with randoms if you haven't even done the dungeon? At least do a couple of normals or heorics beforehand, read the ingame guide at the very least... People doing endgame content without preparing for it doesn't make sense, you either tryhard or casual WoW but not both, can't have your cake and eat it too.
The point is about normals. I remeber the days when my old computer took like 1 minute to load a dungeon and I always spawned there alone since everyone (sometimes the tank alone) could just destroy everything in their path without a 5th person. Learning through normals is not a good idea for a new player, and yes, you have to watch youtube guides next, thats what I did for years, that is what everyone is doing, but its far from ideal. Any time you are 100% required to use external sources and get external addons is a lose, a good game its good on its own from start to finish and does not need to create a huge barrier for new players
@ivanthespacebiker5390 but I'm not talking about external guides, but the in-game aventure guide that explains the fights for each role, on the other hand if you are in an item level bracket where the tank destroys everything then you should queue for heroics, and so on, the problem with mythic+ is twofold: on one hand people expect everyone to know the mechanics (as they should if you are queueing for mythics with randoms instead of a group of friends that would have more patience with you) and 2) people gear up doing whatever other content instead of dungeons and then queue for mythic+ without having set foot in a dungeon before. I should know cause I did that too once, then I had to go back and learn the fight as to not be a burden for everyone else. The information is there, but people don't want to learn, WoW is a slow burn game if you're casualling it but most people behave like wannabe MDI players and then complain because they're not at the skill level they thought they were. There's even the followers systems now which if far from ideal at least would give you a general look of a dungeon on your own without anyone else outpacing you. But people don't do that either. My point is, people should generally prepare themselves for the content they want to do, just because there's easy/fast ways to queue for stuff doesn't mean you should do it without at least a surface level knowledge of it.
@@4idenn The in game guide is not enough for bosses and does literally nothing for the mobs - probably the most important part of an M+ run depending on the dungeon. Using the game to get good is not a choice be for real now, u need a ton of addons and you need youtube guides. Heroics and normals same shit, everyone steam rolls them and from M0 and up people start leaving like crazy. The only good thing I can say is that very recently the issue got so bad that blizzard announced they will look into punishing leavers
There is no way Retail gets the feel of OG WoW back. They just don't want to. I think they have forged exactly the consumer they want, now the majority of the retail players are ok with how they are treated. If its a bit too bitter they get a little something to forget the pain - or big "Doubleyou for Blizz" is what the current Blizzard fans would say. With what they have left - and that's quite a bit - they can play the good Blizz - bad Blizz game for a while... Hiring Metzen was just one of those treats for the WoW-consumer - now the 90 Dollar mount and paid early access doesn't hurt as much, right?
I agree all of your points. +i can add something wich is PVP on retail. I haven't bought War Within because I don't think it's changed, so I don't know what it's like now, but it's always been like this in the last 2-3 expansions. In the first 1-2 months of a new expansion and patch maybe you can enjoy bgs and arena but after that its dead. Im not willing to pay sub for a game where i have to wait 25-30 min BG queses always. I know playing on private servers is a crime for big blizzard funboys but i dont give a fck xD right now im playing on warmane onyxia its in tbc p1 right now and here BG usually calls immediately, but even if not immediately, I've never had to wait more than 1-2 minutes. The fact that PVP is dead on retail only tells me one thing, the current playerbase who enjoy BOOSTS, RMT gold and every shit are fcking pussies. Thats why they dont play pvp because in pvp skill metters not only money.
When metalhead devs left blizzard that was end 🫤,now they make armor sets that are cute to girs and young moms ,no more war horde vs aliance you can play bg for another fraction no world pvp no nothing intresting tier sets was status simbols and no you can get them in 5 days 😅 i come back becose of nostalgia and i rage after month or 2 . There is no man or boy who want butterfly vings on their set . Rip my favorite game this make me soo sad ..
I don't really think it is made for existing fans, since the game no longer retains any of that magic that got people to fall in love with it or the franchise. Nor is it really made for new fans, since the game has an atrocious onboarding experience. The only treads on the tire are the ones to keep the mythic players playing, the world first raiders raiding and the "whales" whaling. They waited too long to make an impressionable story. The world has been gutted and has no impact on your gameplay. Leveling is no longer a journey and is a thing in the way. It used to be a learning experience and now the game teaches you nothing. It spends far too much time carving off current content, not to mention the vast majority of the game also being ignored, collecting dust. It's a lobby game with vistas, It has no magic, no soul, no passion and no desire to push boundaries or to invoke emotional responses on any level. But hey we're getting housing, which iam genuinely thrilled about. (unless they beef it).
First of all, I actually trully believe they will nail that aspect for many diffrent reasons. But regarding the first point, I do really believe they are making it for existing players. I dont agree with their design and I think the game is fucked beyond belief and needs a reset but they do listen to their playerbase a lot and do what they really believe it would make them happy. That being said, yes, it comes with the big downside that they cater to a group of people that is so damn small compared to the number of people who dont play because the game is designed this way
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I dont really think that it caters to a small group, rather that the group it does cater to doesn't embody the ideal(s) that make an mmo, an mmo. All the impetus is put on instanced content and not the game world as a whole. So all the world building aspects that would previously drive the game forward are now replaced with motionless short term seasonal pursuits. Essentially they have patched the "life" out of the game. You have no incentive to stick around or to grow attatched, since now the game is only as big as the top end of the current season.
At this point we’re complaining about getting what we as the community have asked for. A majority of the changes we complain about have been in response to problems we’ve had in the past. The wow token, for example, is and was a solution people buying getting their accounts hacked. This provided a safe way for people to purchase gold since it wasn’t feasible to stop people from buying gold. Dungeon finder came in response to the community looking for easier ways to access content. Character transfers and boosts came come community demand.
Moral of the story is us as consumers need to accept that we ourselves influenced the very changes we now complain about.
You are right, but the developer does 100% also have the responsability to understand what requests made by the players are good and which ones are bad. The players dont always know what they want, but if you want to make a good game and you are a good creator you will understand the diffrence. But sometimes the devs do not understand and sometimes blizzard does not care anyway because stuff like boosts and p2w is profitable.
u got it. blizzard gave gear for free no daily grinds no nothing, just log in and play. oh what a surprise, people are still unhappy and still not playing after literally getting everything what they asked for.
The reality to understand is that most of the complaints we see now aren't representative.
A child demands a cookie before dinner. Guess we give it to them. They know what is best.
@@MalonzeProductionsGaming basic but perfect analogy
It did bring back wow for me. Its nice, it respects my time way more than other expansions.
Same, its fun
You are definetly not alone and the devs learned a lot from how shit shadowlands and BFA were when it comes to respecting the player's time. As I said in the video, the problems WoW has are not linked to an expansion really, its about the fundamentals. TWW is not bad, on paper its 100% an above average expansion. Its just that an expansion would need to be extraordinarly good to bring back the gigantic number of players who gave up or to bring in a significant number of new players. But yea, for people who are into WOW right now the expansion is great
@@ivanthespacebiker5390essentially they need to do a new legion...everyone...everyone, loved legion and TBC.
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 dude i think u just lost passion for wow in general. been playing since wrath and this expansion has been one of my favorites ever, got 2 new friends into the game and they're loving it.
@@spots8060 pssst, it's cool to hate...
You are absolutely correct. Part of the problem is the "selfishness" in our current society. They play the game like it's a constant race to be "the best" and they have no understanding of a game that you can just enjoy at a slower pace and still be able to progress.
The effort is gone for dungeons. Instead, it's been replaced with a pre-dungeon effort where you have to learn and know every single detail and be able to perform flawlessly at a super high pace with a group of people who want to rush through because they're chasing the shiny at the end. You used to have a conversation before a dungeon, discuss the plan, have a little party outside the entrance while everybody waited for the tank to show up. Make friends, share jokes, dance, and throw emojis out... people connected for the fun of the game instead of just rushing through to chase the next carrot being held out in front of them.
I mean you could play retail wow in very slow ways, go for pet battles, farm old transmogs, old achievments etc etc. That is not the problem. The problem is that you cannot be a part of the real MMORPG part of the game, you cannot be a part of the progression without playing like a sweat. As I said in the video, I think you should do so much more with gold. If I trully understand the market and know what is what in the economy, why isnt the game letting me progress at all through that? Its not like it would be easy either. But yea, everything is about dealing with 15 mechanics at the same time while trying to be the first on the dps meter.
@ivanthespacebiker5390 Right, I find it hard to articulate, but that's the problem. You can do all of that, but there's no community about it, if you want to play a slow enjoyable game of substance you're left to do it solo and the end game content is just non existent for that type of player.
@@nolangillentine773 True. How could there be any? Everything is extremely difficult and fast paced that all your attention needs to be on doing everything you need to do. And I partly get the appeal, but when the trade is most of what make an MMO an MMO I think the trade sucks. I can go and play league and DOTA if I want a real challenge, I want cool progression and community when I play an MMO
@ivanthespacebiker5390 Exactly. Anyway, good content man. ~Shadowise~ ~Bonechewer~
The problem with WoW is selfishness in society???
Anyway I jumped straight into mythic plus as a new player at the very end of last expansion and sucked really bad at first. I then met some nice people and they helped me stop being a noob! Now I play and socialize with them daily. It's actually way more about gameplay than pre dungeon prep. You need to know your class and be able to react to all of the different situations. The tanks can take a unique route to pull specific packs, the retarded hunter might pull too many mobs and you need to use a defensive.
You need to learn the boss mechanics before but that takes 2 minutes lol.
also about the carrot on the stick, I got keystone master on the two guys I'm playing for this expansion and I'm pretty satisfied, it took about 3 weeks of playing after work and some weekends. I'm now putting the game down until next season and have time to type all these comments to weird cognitively dissonant youtube commenters like yourself!
Classic drops the player into a vast world full of challenges and player interaction
Retail tells you a long and boring story with no way to tap out.
Ye. Sometimes the stories in classic are amazing sometimes they are shit, at least you are not forced into 4-5 hour long campaigns that are basic and empty
@@ivanthespacebiker5390Basic and empty? What? Did you play the TWW campaign? It was better than anything in Classic for sure.
Lol this guy's video is just his personal feelings. Dude just wants carried like all the other classic andies
@@MikeyJ232 What part exactly? The part where the 6th dip shit girlboss character did what was typical to end in a predictable result? The highly foreseeable twists? The writing is the shittiest shallow dei bullshit and you need to stop trying to lie and say it isnt.
@@MikeyJ232yea it was basic and mostly boring
Honestly, as a Chinese person who started wow in vanilla, recently picked up since a 5 year pause on the game.
Please go play Warcraft 3 before Wow, that’s how I started wow and what still kept relating to…
Actually good advice.
you and I are on similar paths with this game i think. great advice, and so true.
Even better, start with Warcraft II
The story of retail is the thing that pushed me away, maybe its a nostalgia,the fact that I grew up with warcraft 3's campaigns, and that I still play them to this day.
Nah man its not nostalgia. Its not like the story in WC2-WC3-Vanilla-TBC is some kind of legendary shit (wotlk was up there tho) but it was the damn vibe that is lost, and that has nothing to do with nostalgia
I mean, it is nostalgia and that’s okay. It’s stories you grew up and they are special to you.
Too few subs for this quality of content. Keep at it, bro.
Huge thanks man!
Put the War back in Warcraft
Doesn't fix all ills but one thing I can suggest you do for retail is to play on a popular RP server. Does nothing for something like M+, but it's a world of difference atmosphere-wise all the same.
No, i 100% believe you, but I could not get into roleplay like that with random people tho, it just aint for me
@@ivanthespacebiker5390that’s the awesome thing about moonguard! we have an addon called trp3, and it’s common trp etiquette to not initiate rp with someone who doesn’t have that addon. my bf plays on the server with me despite not roleplaying while i rp actively and no one ever approaches him, even if we’re together. it’s also trp etiquette to only initiate rp with someone if their trp says that walk ups are welcome. the community is incredibly respectful of non roleplayers because we actively encourage them to join for the atmosphere all the time! we love u guys and want u to have fun :^)
Roleplay is actually really bad depending on how good you know the lore. Most people sadly don't know how to write good characters and play them accordingly, or understand how races work. I tried too years ago, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Too many "main" characters, everybody wants to be *the* exception.
Maybe if someone can ignore it, it won't be a problem for them.
@@JohnRengo-h4w Roleplay is not 'forced' on the players, is what I feel many are not considering when people suggest RP servers. You know how people are silent on most hub cities in retail? It isn't like that on RP, and it's not because everyone is speaking in RP. There is just awareness that socialization is more important to that server community of players.
I find it interesting that you find the idea of characters treated with more importance as distasteful (this is especially made awesome thanks to the addon Total RP, where you can make the character's name to what you want and add an bio and so on). If anything, server character reputation was one of the most important things of the vanilla to mid-wrath era. You knew the jerks, the best profession folk and the server jokers. More exceptions makes the world more of a MMO, rather then the arcade game nature Blizzard wants the game to be.
@@LordNEG I never said its forced on anyone, only that trying out RP will lead to encountering this effect. If someone doesn't care about roleplaying, then I see no reason for why they'd consider an RP server in the first place.
I'm also surprised that you don't actually get what I meant. Its not about "importance", rather how almost everyone wants a main character who's story is often completely unbefitting of their race, just to make themselves unique. This however leads to a lot of these beginner RP players to say things which end up being nonsensical from the story's perspective.
Its not about your IRL personality or any personality at all.
Exceptions stop being exceptions when they become common enough, and inexperienced or poor RPers don't realise this, and end up being annoying.
For me a big problem is the look. I was a Tauren for years but once the updated graphics came out I hated the Tauren models and look of the game.
Searching for "cairne bloodhoof" on google and comparing what I see to what we have in retail ... in general, not just for taurens
At least someone who shares this with me. Wasn't a huge fan of the updated artstyle they introduced in WoD, and they only pushed it more as years went on. To me, Classic to Cataclysm/MoP had my favorite artstyles, and it was one of the main reasons I played the game. Was screensharing my game with a Runescape player, and he noted how much more he preferred how Classic looked over Retail.
@@lemmingtonofficial 100%. Sometimes “updated graphics” doesn’t mean a better game.
Modern WoW is a bloathed mess, a miss-mash of retcons, re-hashes and do-overs. It's just a jumbled up cluster F that doesn't know what it is or what it wants to be. It's not an MMORPG anymore, it's a Semi-MMO collectaton with a hard focus on single player experience. This is why I prefer Classic, it's an MMORPG, where the world is the main character... It's alive and dangerous, and it doesn't care if you do or you don't. But Modern WoW on the other hands, feels more like you are led through a theme-park to see every ride and attraction it has on offer. It looks shiny, but it's all just smokes and mirror under the hood, and not ''real'' like how the game used to be in the Classic format.
Exactly, man. Classic doesn’t always care about your safety, your immediate progression, or even your time. But it strikes the perfect balance, enough to feel real and genuine without crossing into being outright frustrating or stupid. That’s what I think makes it so special, even more than all the other great things about it. No one seems to talk about this aspect tho, which feels like such a huge positive not just for Classic, but for games in general.
Sometimes, it’s good to have something in your game that upsets the player in the short term but pays off in the long run. That kind of risk makes the experience so much more rewarding. Retail, on the other hand, plays it so safe. Everything is so polished, sterile, and artificial that it sometimes feels like it was AI-generated, I swear 😂
Agreed to disagree. I understand Classic hast ist own style and charme. However I prefer Retail.
A version with only 2-5 playable specs. Project Ascension/ Turtle WoW are way better alternative than any other version.
Even worse. It's like a theme park with a roller coaster and area representing each expansion. Each new expansion the leadership at the park lead you to the newest content. But to get there you have to ride a train skipping the every old zone. Seeing the old forgotten zones, not updated, seeing a thousand quests but not knowing which ones are for the new content or content you don't want to do.
@@charleshill3503 I totally get what you're saying and classic is much better than retail in this regard. I will just add it's no fun to visit a theme park alone. It's actually probably depressing and would make you hate everything and everybody there. Blizzard calls it a themepark. It's a themepark. It's fun to do themepark things with your bros in VC like visit the new dungeons and learn how they work every season.
Retail wow is about instant gratification, Classic wow is about delayed gratification and that's it
@@deovolente1776 I wouldnt say its that simple, not by a long shot, but I get what ur saying
It makes me sad, because i want to like retail WOW. I gave it another shot recently and felt so dang overwhelmed by it. It has become too fast paced and meta based for me. I miss the slower pace. The fast pace of retail stresses me out. Im really happy for the people that enjoy it though. Once my computer is finished being worked on, im going to be getting on the fresh classic server to re-experience the slower pace that i find relaxing. I dont think im going to even download questie to be honest. Kind of just wanting to play it by ear and go where the wind blows my character in the world.
@@drizzy11244 i know man, im in the same boat. Every few months i feel that itch to play retail again, i go for a little while and then it hits me again
I'm focusing on Classic as well and it's been awesome! I almost exclusively played alliance since 2005. So I'm leveling a horde. The game feels new and fresh because theres quests and cities I've never experienced. But I can take my time and have fun.
Classic is way more meta based btw.
@muratsar3251 maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I just don't feel the pressure to play in a meta way on classic as much. It's my own subjective experience. I'm not going to debate on that.
@muratsar3251 it is also waaay more community based. They are willing to add the player not class
Having played classic, SoD and retail extensively, Retail is just made for the general MMO population now. I have also played Final Fantasy 14 and many of the elements are similar with modern warcraft. Classic is an old school style RPG with social elements while newer versions of the game are about player progression and end game content. Pay to win elements and the gear treadmill have been around as long as TBC. The only reason why the original version of vanilla had fewer seeming elements of it is because people were so new to the game. In the end every raid tier you replace tier sets, trinkets and other things. People have always sold and bought gold for items and boosting services. The main reason gearing has become faster and more accessible is that the silent majority just don't have the sort of time to spend on things like they do with classic. The real reason WoW hasn't grown much is because people either play older versions of the game that they were fond of, or have played retail and moved on. The game has been out for twenty years and new players are less common due to the popularity of other games. No new expansion will bring back players in the way it used to, no matter how good it is. Retail will always continue surviving due to the fact many players who still play, have played for many years already.
I got back into wow when I hear about SoD, getting to explore classic wow with more fleshed out classes. The downtime between phase 4-5 pushed me to cata, and the fire lands downtime pushed me onto retail. Retail was everything I’d hoped the game would be and was promised back before vanilla wow was originally released. It was fun for a month or so, M+ was admittedly fun. After going back to classic/vanilla, I’m reminded of how the classes are still broken and the damage is too spikey. I like the slow pace of cata and the more fleshed out abilities and the slow pace of the game, but I like the classic world, dungeon and flavor. SoD was the closest to capturing what I’d want from wow. They just need to tune the game down a little bit from that version and it would be perfect, with added dungeon content.
SOD really wasnt for me, but I like that it exists because it hopefuly is something used for learning for a real classic plus in the future
I haven't ever really enjoyed the story since Wrath. It was clear they ran out of ideas of what to do. There have been individual zones where i have really enjoyed the story, like Suramar in Legion and Uldum in Cata, but nothing like the original trilogy where i read all the quests. Then Blizzard started catering to the nonexistent "modern audience", making all the female characters unattractive and moving everyone toward androgyny. As soon as you watch the War Within video of a powerful black female with one eye and one arm, you can see they have no desire to be serious storytellers anymore and are just chasing their activist fans for those ESG dollars.
I think the worst part of retail though is how it just tries to rush you through everything-the leveling, the story, the endgame. It makes it feel like a job instead of a respite from my job. I don't despise retail, there is still a lot to like. But it sucks at enticing new players that don't have ADHD to play the game and stick with it. I completely agree they need to get rid of all the pay to win, level boosts, and WoW tokens. Make enticing content that is actually fun and relaxing and people will keep that sub going a lot longer than playing the new expac for 2 weeks and then quitting again.
The real point where they ran out of ideas was at the end of Mists of Pandaria. Up until then, everything in the game came from established lore, some of it going all the way back to Warcraft II. And you can tell. The only really great story since then was Legion, and even that just reused an old concept from the universe. Basically, they haven’t made anything truly unique or Warcraft-like since 2004. At least they made good use of what they had up until around 2012-if we’re being kind.
You’re right, though even if The War Within had an amazing story, the game constantly pushes pushes pushes you toward the endgame, directly or indirectly, every second. Honestly, I dont think there’s any hope left for Retail as it is now. My only hope is that we get some kind of reset in the future thats where I got all my hopes lined up
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 the game is so old! why would a new player want to go experience things intended for thousands of players at a time alone? it pushes you to the endgame because that's where the players are!!
Would it be better if they removed everything except the current expansion? Would the game really be better if there were thousands of people stuck leveling through wrath alone 15 years after it came out?
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I’m not sure how up on the lore you were at the time of Legion, but that wasn’t reusing an old concept at all. I consider Legion to be the completion of all the threads that were down back when the events of WC2 BTDP were canonized leading into WC3. Every expansion from Classic to WoD continued plot threads from various questlines leading up to the Legions inevitable return and ultimately Sargeras’ defeat. Everything that came after Legion was leading up to the Shadowlands crap which in my opinion was where they truly ran out of ideas, since that execution and story by Danuser and the new team was absolutely abominable
Your first mistake was calling the level boost P2W. Leveling in retail takes no time and neither does getting gear.
I have two entire bank slots full of Warbound gear for my alts ready to go and can level 1-80 in two evenings.
I wouldn’t even call the token P2W either. What are you winning? Getting carried in one dungeon doesn’t get you the required IO nor will it always get you gear.
P2W is when the cash-shop sells direct power gains.
The fact that the Leveling is seen as such a trivial, boring part of the game that they would even think to offer an option to let you skip it is an issue in and of itself.
It's about the principle. If the most efficient money making method in a game is getting a real life job and investing the money into tokens, something is lost.
@@unbelievablegoblin You literally are encouraged in GW2 to insta ding to lvl 80 by getting hundreds of level up tomes and lvl 80 tokens. Hasn't been an issue since it's inception.
@@Btechdom Are you using GW2 as an example for a good MMO?
@@unbelievablegoblin GW2 is unanimously one of the best mmos on the market and has been for years, you're coping hard if you think otherwise. The fact there's no monthly sub makes it even better.
@@Btechdom unanimous means everyone agrees on it, which everyone doesn't. It's not even in the Top 5. sorry I don't like your game
You thought? lmao
when i bought shadowlands, i didnt feel like playing it anymore after 3 days lol
dragonflight was ok i suppose but also didnt finish it - like 2 or 3 zones, but the new flying system was nice
still on the fence about buying war within - before it came out i saw the places and i prefer the outside instead of being inside of a big underground mine
wotlk was epic, would be more epic if i was paly or dk
cata was a total meh
pandas i enjoyed so much, i love playing as one
i expected more of lords of draenor, was under the impresion i will literally be commanding big armies in real time - they could have done better with player homes and still make them useful to this day
legion was nice and unique with the suramar stuffs - many people were sad about varyan being gone, but i had no strong feelings whatsoever. Tirion Fordring being gone? Now that was something i did not expect, totally derailed me and feels like im one of the few. i was high and let my friend try the new expansion but i did not try alliance at that time and was completely baffled.
bfa? it was just another expansion i suppose
The War Within felt like a step in the right direction. And I did not care to keep playing it.
Yep
It’s okay that WoW isn’t for you anymore. Many of us are loving it.
@@MikeyJ232 Bro this is the problem. The people who love it is bec they been playing for years and are over 30 y/o xD. I tried to pull my friend into the game (he's 22) and we both started to notice cracks into the game very fast. We never made it out of tutorial island, I was about totell him DF was ass but once he paid 60 dollars and invested a lot of time configuring addons the game gets better, LMAO, do you realize how dumb that is?
@MikeyJ232 you must love being objectively wrong?
I really hate to break it to people, but more people aren't playing Classic. Retail has triple if not more the playerbase. That is just a fact.
Classic sucks lol
Zoomer?@@spotfinds467
Anyone playing WoW is living in the past anyway. The game is finished up, Blizzard is just stringing it along for money because they know people will pay. WoW is NOTHING like what it used to be and it's a fucking shame and what they did pisses me off. The game I started playing in 2007 seemed like it would never fail at the time.
Good, when did I say that tho?
Source? Cause according to the leaked blizzard meeting photos, the sub numbers are heavily padded by classic.
11:35 omg couldnt agree more the whole vibe feels like wow had done collab with fortnite
Yea, Im working on another WoW video an I got to see some shit that was even worse than the stuff I posted there :((
bro I spend more time laying around dreaming about WoW's potential than actually playing the game. Mythic + is not in a good spot and Mythic is almost impossible to get into because mythic + and Delves don't scale up to Mythic levels I don't get it.
Been there mate, thats all i did during Shadowlands besides logging in once a day to fill my vault and raid
People have been paying for carries for as long as I can remember, and I've been playing since the beginning. Gear isn't the real end game of WOW. It's all about mounts and collectibles.
Gear used to be the real end game, its not anymore sure. Getting a high ilvl set right now is not even close to the feeling you would get by dropping a really good and rare weapons back in vanilla and to a lesser extenet tbc and wotlk. As about carries being in the game, of course they were and some were also done using botted gold, but 1 - not all of it was, there were a lot of people who went into GDKPs with their own gold and 2 - RMT gold was way less present because it could get you ban
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 The development team have essentially told their base that gear is just a never-ending mouse wheel. Gear is so meaningless now that it's basically trash, and it does literally become vendor trash in a couple of months. The mindset has changed. The gameplay is still fun though imo.
You didn't start playing until at least wotlk if that is your analysis
@@msscott22 they release m+, high level delves, mythic raids and rated PVP and a ton of their effort is going into these things that require you to have good gear to progress through. Its still an MMO, gear still matters. Its just extremely fucked up and bad
@@scienz0220 Been playing since 2004. Don't know what you're talking about.
GDKP sucks man
GDKP sucks if you can RMT. If not, why would it suck? It currently sucks and will forever suck because of RMT, but in a perfect world it would be awesome
I like the war within so far but it is also the first retail expansion I've ever bought and played through. I think a major issue with WoW is how the dungeons and raids work. In retail, you don't get the dungeon/raid experience because you level up so quickly that by the time you want to do a dungeon/raid, you can already easily solo most of them on mythic difficulty. I really like the Timewalking dungeons, I just wish it wasn't limited to a certain expansion each week and that it always had all the older dungeons/raids that are easily soloable now. Timewalking actually allows retail players who are new to experience the dungeons/raids as intended originally, but also allows for people to solo the raids to farm drops after they've had the experience of doing the dungeon/raid how it used to be.
The old content needs to be updated. Not graphically or even the quests. But old systems need to be removed, reputation grinds need to be dramatically faster, mobs need to be brough to a balanced level.
They simply made too many bad expansions in a row. It was looking bleak when they did 1 bad 1 ok xpac, and then once in a looong while you would get Legion which was amazing. But then they started doing 2 bad 1 ok, and that was just insane. I personally am still burnt out from BFA. And then I came back to give it a chance into Shadowlands, instantly saw it was the same garbage and gave up.
They also VERY MUCH moved away from the original WoW formula. The game today is made for the world first 50 players in the world, and 2-3 months after they clear it ? Then after 10 nerfs for you. They keep leaning into the hardcore endless time consuming side of WoW, and as such have just grinded out their middle base and anyone that cant keep up.
Most of us who were once super hardcore simply ages out and no longer have 15hrs a day to put into WoW, as such you start to fall behind or sacrifice sleep/family time to keep up. They are no where near fresh or riding a cultural hype train to get players to do this. And they keep promising non stop that they will stop with the World First tunned bosses and they never do.
True. The effect of Shadowlands on WoW is not talked about very often, but I think it might be the second or third most influential expansion. First would be vanilla and I really think Shadowlands is second because before Shadowlands you could say that WoW will one day come back and no one would say you are insane (if they were not a hater) but now? You need to be veeeeery optimistic to think that WoW will ever return to a fraction of its former glory and that expansion was the tipping point. Two bad ones in a row was clearely too much.
Wow is adding stuff that shoulda been added 15-20yrs ago .. they are still trying to claim "new races" on new expansions and it's just a diff skin of the race currently .. wow retail is horrible, they are soo behind the times with ideas there's no catching up because it's too late
Oh and don't forget the fact we never got dragon knight and instead we have those ugly dragons!
I think you’re misunderstanding something here, most players don’t care about the story, the ones that do are the ones that go for the lore master achievements, and complete every quest they find and read every in game book they find. It hasn’t changed since vanilla. The the only thing that’s changed is that they’ve added cut scenes (which they’ve been doing since wrath) and I’m not sure what’s wrong with that.
But my point is the story is supposed to be something you’re actively looking for. Wow has never just handed it to players at least until recently.
@@catrinastars I think people not caring about the story is just another side effect of having a shit story, the people who used to care or who would care simply dont play. I was a high end mythic raider back in BFA so I was a gameplay first kind of guy I guess but I can definetly give myself as an example (as well as most my friends and family who played in the past) - the game fell of hard for me when the story got so god damn bad. I think an mmo does not need a good story to succeed it just needs one that is not the most basic bland disney and nonsensical bullshit of all time
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 i’d also like to point out you said you preferred games that did exactly that.
@@catrinastars what?
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 nvm replied to the wrong video, sorry
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 i doubt you've mythic raided lol
Wow classic era is the best ❤
i loved the pain of traveling long distances, lacking gold for skills and mount and the fact game made me to level for killing mobs. Screwing economy in AH fas fun aswell.
No pain no gain
Theres no hope. Sorry to burst your bubble... Theres no team in the world that could be big enough and understanding enough of the classic fantasy not to mention loving the classic fantasy artstyle and feeling to be able to reproduce it in wow.
When wow came out lord of the rings was fresh, dnd was 3.0 and warhammer was dark and gritty. Oh yea and kids raised on metallica became game developers at blizzard!
This will never happen again. And the modern blizzard employee has NO IDEA WHATS COOL. No idea what the word even means...
They think disney and marvel are whats peak art in entertianment... Thye have infantile tastes.
I mean, not bursting any bubles, I dont have that much hope, but I believe there is still a slight chance
Newer player here, i started around halfway through dragonflight, mostly without help and i think i got to a respectable level, im not among the best of the best but after seeing the stressy players i dont even want to hang out with the best players anyway.
The resets kinda do bother me, my gear keeps becoming trash feels bad. Sometimes the time gated grind can be frustrating but i learnt to switch things up, exploring other things since there is SO much content to this game.
This season I bought a lot of explorer gear with speed on it from auction, maxed it, enchanted it, added speed gem’s to give even more speed, and i’m running my speed character at +50% run speed through older expansions quests and stories and professions, cleared classic, then northrend, now outlands (didnt realise i messed the order up).
I think my gripes are with players, they behave too competitively with short attention span brains, its like people expect to have end game gear BEFORE even playing the game, they speedrun the content, get the max level gear, now bored and they quit the game until its time to redo all this. i learnt to just enjoy the game at my own pace, on my own terms as there is plenty of content to pick and choose on a daily basis.
As for handling the gold problems - i made several characters, so i can do all professions myself, the skill points are so time gated i cant even fall behind others who only do 1 or 2 professions!
That way i dont need to buy the enchants or consumables off others, saves me a lot of gold which can go towards the wow tokens, or expanding the warband bank to hold many many reagents XD
My problem with this xpack is similar to Dragonflight: The crafting revamp in DF failed. In DF when you got to lvl 70 (max at that time) your crafting profession could craft base level 70 gear. However, it was pointless as the gear you got from world quests had a higher Ilevel than the 70 crafted gear and was upgradeable. This made crafting pointless except for blacksmith to make the gathering gear for alts to sell mats to others and tailoring for bags. Even alchemy, which is essential for higher content was destroyed in DF.
In TWW, they took the DF lessons and made them even worse. Now, when a player gets to being able to craft lvl 80 gear, their crafting skills aren't even maxed (they were in DF), so it makes crafting max clevel (crafting level) crafting tools even harder.
With those changes, and the issues I saw with how they did their patching since launch (literally 11 weeks in a row where they went over their time they allowed for patching, and some of those patches were extremely broken) I actually unsubbed from this game after only 2 months after this xpack, and don't plan on going back anytime soon. This is coming from someone that was subbed for all but one month in DF, which is the longest I've ever been subbed to WoW, and I've played on and off since launch.
I think it’s possible that we get a full expansion pack for classic. Season of discovery, but way more fleshed out
Would be awesome if it focused more on the world, and less on gearing up to raid and shit like SoD. The strength of classic is the slow and deliberate pace of traveling around in the world accomplishing your little things. If the expansion focused more on adding rewarding little things to flesh out the emptier zones it would be awesome.
I really enjoyed the sleeping bag adventure in sod, that's the kind of thing i think would be really successful in a true classic expansion.
The thing is expansions as a concept would be bad, at least how they are now. Even if they somehow bring an awesome standalone expansion to classic and retail too for that matter it needs to be very diffrent, mainly the old content needs to not be wiped out. Same goes for progression
It’s called turtlewow
I’d like to see them redo the whole world and have class specific leveling path that takes you through old zones. Every class would have its own path. But they would need to undo all the old content.
As a player who started with bfa being my first mmorpg, retail just isn't for me. In 2019 when classic came out I learned what mmo truly is. I care about mechanics, but not more than people, and classic forced me to play and interact with other players. As result I made lots new friends. I really can't say same for retail. Also tones of both games as said in this video are different. Classic tone feel like it's a war, reatil tone is too safe for my taste
I was gone for four years. I came back subbed for a year bought a $90 amount bought a bunch of name changes. I love this expansion. I’m all in. I don’t know what you’re talking about. All these changes are what people asked for and I’m not saying they’re all good or bad but they changed the game based off of other people complaining. Do I like the feel of classic wow Moore yeah it’s nostalgic but the game is fun. Still they’re not too many options out there that are better than World of Warcraft even in its current state.
i play classic for what it is and im a relatively new player. Never really bothered with retail, it looks uninteresting and kinda pay to win. I've played tbc and wotlk a bit and imo classic/vanilla are just a better gaming experience
It is pay to win. There sure are interesting things about it tho, and thats why I hate there is so much that is not working about it
Retail is not what wow was for a lot of people so they left. TWW feels like dragonflight with some changes but not all that great.
Classic feels a lot better to many people, but the game is so figured out its either not fun to play who arent min maxing everything or they just arent playing since player numbers are kinda low. Anyone who denies this is coping or blind. There needs to be a refresh. This is coming from someone who has played tons of both versions and quit for good a month ago
This dude says WoW is P2W because of level boosts and the WoW token but is TOTALLY okay with GDKPs????
Lmao. Ok. Wheres the logic in that??
GDKPs absolutely ruin classic servers and heavily promote RMT because the token doesn’t exist.
Level boost is not comparable. The boost isn’t even worth buying anymore with how fast leveling is.
Because GDKPs was what we did back in the day. I never saw aproblem with that and neither buyers on mine did. It was part of the experience.
@@Mothman777 i dont get it, it does not seem to me that u need to be really smart to understand that GDKPs are not the problem, but the fact that they are run with RMTed gold. As i said, GDKPs are currently bad for the game, but not because they are bad on their own but because blizz cannot take of gold farmers and their bots
Wow classic era is the only wow❤
thinking strategically in short terms is a sickness of our modern industry, which doesnt affect only the gaming industry but all industries. Fast money and rising shares is all that matters even if it means stomping the brand and the company into the ground in the long run, because who cares. With the short term money they can found another 5 new companies and you wouldnt even realise it.
big ups for my guy....imo tww is the best wow has been since legion but i still get the feeling that i need to do a lot of stuff...im just chilling in fresh hc rn raidlogging sod and i have way more fun...mayb im after all a classic andy
❤❤❤❤ missing them streams man, hopefuly ill get some time back and will be able to take a look again soon
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 im all day on the hc grind when im not in uni u will be always my number 1 viewer
Great video. Cheers man. I last enjoyed the game the most in Burning Crusade because my real life buddies played it a ton. The music, the atmosphere, the first new races. But I still really enjoy listening to the music, reading the old paperback novels I have on my shelf from time to time, or logging into wow and watching videos about it. I just don’t have the time to enjoy it even if I wanted to.
@@mckdogdrums3543 the music is great man. One of my favorite, if not my overall favorite track comes from shadowlands, no matter how bad the game, the music team is always on point
You voice is awesome, definitely a good quality video. Subbed, keep it up!
Thinking about retail makes me vomit. Its a disgrace to the absolute pearl wow classic is.
to each their own i guess, i quit WoW (after 15 yrs) for reasons other than the game about 4 yrs ago, this past August, i returned to begin (or not) my journey into WoW again, and im SO GLAD I DID!! the game, for me personally, is in a great place, and suits my current playstyle and availability like it never has before, im totally enjoying myself and am now leveling my 7th champ to max and two of them from scratch (Evoker and another Dracthyr),. I've also been killing it doing Anniversary stuff. most of the stuff i see people complaining about are things the community asked for over the years, and well, this is what you wanted right?
I like WoW again, was never out of like with it totally, just bored i think, but now im back and having great fun! hope all of you are too.
I know WoW didnt start off like this Disney-like inspired game, but it sure feels like a massive rug pull now.
The thing is, even if the stories themselves would be on paper the most brutal stuff u ever heard (they are extremely far from that) it would still feel Disney because of the presentation. Visually everything is so soft, the voice acting is so soft, the artstyle and visual design is so soft. Presentation matters. You can tell the lore of something like Warhammer 40k using a deep dark voice or using Dora the explorer, and even tho the stories would be the damn same, the end product would be so diffrent. And all of this is of course assuming that the story itself is not a Disney fiesta, and it is
@@ivanthespacebiker5390I wonder if rebooting the universe , with WoW Awakening rumor with High Elves and Orges, new area in vanilla world would bring WoW back to its golden years?
@@ivanthespacebiker5390old school wow reminds me of "Dragon Ball and Dragon Z" and retail more like DB super, super good but not as iconic as Z
It did bring back wow for me too. No matter how many negative sally videos are out there, this expansion is the one wich i have enoyed most since tbc.
Nice mate, happy to hear that.
Very nice video - addressing many aspects of the game, i feel that one major aspect not touched though is bots not getting addressed by blizzard...
I did not get into it because at the end of the day who gives a fuck anymore? What are they gonna do? Ruin the economy? We already have wow tokens and the economy is still busted since garisons were a thing in WOD. The situations is so bad in retail that bots are not even important anymore
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I do not agree as i lost quite a few people to complains regarding bots and how they ruin the game preventing actual players from farming zones etc.
The thing i dislike the most about modern WoW it's the dissonance between the skills of my character and the real damage they do. In the first few expansions your character was weak and leveling was a struggle and the skills kinda reflected that: your skills were kinda boring looking and did mediocre damage unless you had good gear, so when you achieve the gear and do good damage it feels great, but in moder wow they skills are flashy-looking and sound powerful and destructive but they do no damage unless you have good gear so it feels wrong and boring.
What i'm trying to say it's that the game feels wrong it's like if your character didn't grow in power but instead it was recuperating said power.
@@eduardoubilla4307 *Im gonna cast a powerful torrent of dark void energy on this murloc for 5 second while at the same time afflicting it with dark words of power* - murloc at 50% HP. Might as well kill Murlocs in classic in Elwyn then
the video needs a million more views. the only guy who says this out loud
@@86Corvus 💝💝 thank you brother
The Barrens...
Absolutely legendary 😂😂😂
Bro, its my favorite zone. That chat, the zone itself. Idk man it all feels like home to me. I wished i had screenshots of some of the insane things I saw in that chat channel
for me and all friends it did. we hated shadowlands, dragonflight, bfa, quit almost immediately but this exp. is just great
the main reason i dont like the war whitin story dosent fit with the name of the game
They successfully patched the community out of the game. Looking in as a former player, it seems Genshin frickin' Impact is as much of MMO as retail WoW is anymore, and that game all but hates multiplayer play and almost never features any. And a 4-player co-op like Warframe effortlessly blows retail WoW out of the water in that regard, something I never imagined I would say.
I felt it setting in already when a friend got me to play Legion with her again, and when her guild fell apart at the end of it, I just felt no desire to play anymore because it was only truly fun with a pre-existing group and friends (on top of BfA's story taking an atrocious nosedive and it becoming clear Blizz is all-in on borrowed power shit and Marvelization of writing).
"Patched the community out of the game" nice 😂
The comments are hilarious. "Nooo the game is perfect as it is, its the players that just don't get it!" hahaha you golems deserve your garbage game
Golems 😂😂😂 nah but its real tho
Fantastic video and also love the giant dad profile pic lol
The number of people who get it its too damn low
I don't care about anything endgame, "gearing" or really even multiplayer part of it tbh. Gearing is just bigger numbers for the same gameplay experience. Multiplayer is just you contributing less than a single player RPG and not being able to go at your own pace. But I love the vastness of the world, the art style, class design, and beautifully designed zones. However, I feel like that's not enough for a player like me to warrant $15/month, which already seems like an archaic type of fee even for people who enjoy the intended endgame experience or whatever.
Every aspect of wow is broken. Maybe if blizz gave a shit about the players it would be better
Now I wouldnt say that every aspect is broken, that sounds like a bit too much
Blizzard entrusted the soul of the game to people who played it soullessly. A lot of former players have reached the 'I don't care what happens to these people' point with the story.
@@gregquinn642 yea. The devs will at the end of the day make a game that make sense to them, so its so important to have devs that understand what matters
We need WOW 2.0. Fresh start. 400 years into the future.
Because that worked so well for EverQuest II
400 years seems doable
I got hooked on WOW the minute I entered Goldshire....18years ago....but I started being worried after wotlk and Panderia was a real let down.I quit playing dungeons because of the verbal interaction and the freaking speed run which did not allowed to pick loot.Since then I kind of run along but not really enjoying myself. Sure getting new gear is nice it is not satisfying in the long run leaving you with the feeling of "working" for the game.To sum up I really agree with this video
.
not to mention professions
you speak well. your channel is going to grow well.
Thank you mate. For that I need to start posting more often tho, hopefully can step it up
I have more then 5k yours in wow and I dont give a fck about story its an mmo
okay :)) I do
Be careful, the "If you dont like it dont play it then" or "you all asked for this, you are never happy" army are coming
Bro just look over the barricades, they are here
"Tell me you have nothing to add to a conversation and want to capitalize on the algorithm in one title"
Ivan the Space Biker: "say no more fam"
@@bierdeckelHeinz thx for the comment fam
I like to call it...."The Wait Within".....compare to the last expansion "Dragginghype"
Coming into wow today feels like coming in in the middle of the story.
ESO and FFXIV have both made it so you will never miss out on story.
Except FF14’s model isn’t perfect either since it’s a massive time sink to get to the current content. Plus do we really want to force new players to play through bad expansions like Shadowlands?
Not sure about ESO but FF really does a great job there
Free-to-play WoW on an RP server is the best WoW. I enjoy it more than Classic.
Yea, RP is very personal, if you are into it its very hard to get spoiled by anything blizzard could do. I am not an RP person so i cant talk to much on it
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I mostly solo RP on Moon Guard but every now and then I have random encounters with other players and then get caught up in their long-leggedy drama for a bit. The restrictions of the F2P account makes it a very interesting experience when I've played as a subbed player since Vanilla.
For me classic doesn’t interest me. I can’t go back in time where mmo was new the friend were new everything was novel . The guild I made the new memories I made at the time. None of that can be reproduced. The game was a container for all those external things. Just reproducing the container can’t roll back time, can’t make an experience new again can’t bring back the feelings you remember. And also can’t bring back the challenge as a lot of that was the fact that at the time all we had was thottbit for reference .there was a challenge. now it’s what is posted on TH-cam or wow head etc. classic itself as a game I find boring now. Been there done that feeling mixed with the nagging loss of what once was and can never be again.
Super understandable stance
Agree 100% especially on story, feel, atmosphere!
That is totally what is missing, it does not have that iconic Warcraft feel, i think perhaps last time its been present for me was WotLK & Legion was good…. and counter to most, i enjoyed the feel of SL.
But that said, the chromie time is a disaster, the simplification of npc and monsters are depressing, remember those elites in Nagrand or Ice Crown?
Anyways, professions suck, i dont even bother, dungeons are meh, no personality, i have no idea of the story, there is nothing to follow, no memorable key characters, guess the Magni stuff was okay, but its not like following Illidan (kidding me?) or even Jaina or even nestingway expeditions haha.
Anyways, agree on all counts on this vid. Ive been playing on and off since BC, sadly its no longer “Warcraft” its agenda driven woke culture disney BS that i dont want to, nor will ever care about. Truth be told only reason i still play this is that my wife still loves it and we play together.
Why does the narration sound like a Queensland Government TV advertisement lol
@@whyyes6428 what is that 😭
Ironically, I have to disagree with your take right at the start. Quite frankly, I find the idea "the devs making the game for the hardcore WoW fans" a bit ridiculous. There are tons of complaints not only for the game's story, but artistic direction as well, not mentioning gameplay. For the visual part, the problems people list are generally the same: the game looks much softer and smoother now. WoW looks more similar to a game like Sims or Fortnite, rather than OG WoW. I also literally can't watch the cinematics anymore as of DF, they are simply cringe, with unenjoyably bad dialogue.
I myself no longer play the game because of these reasons, so if the WoW devs really have the goal to appeal to the fans of the game, they don't do a particularly great job at it.
I personally always thought that WoW became stagnant after WotLK, they simply kept doing the same stuff over and over again. Look at how many new and refreshing things were added in DF, including Dragonriding. Just to understand my perspective, Minecraft, a literal sandbox game, added their version of this dynamic flight around Legion's release. Ridiculous. We haven't even gotten a genuen "buffer" class or spec until DF either. I genuenly don't think they can turn around from these waters anymore, its been more than a decade.
Current WoW is a mediocre, but entertaining game, which failed to build on its past strengths and continued to use the same formula, with almost all of the new systems failing hard throughout the expansions.
Nah man, the game was really well recieved by a ton of people, the people who played for the last few expansions and did not quit love this stuff
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 They do love it thats for sure, but I can't say they are all hardcore WoW fans anymore. I mean, when the biggest WoW streamer who was there since TBC stops playing your game after SL, its a sign that many other players also did the same, likely even before him.
I saw people say that DF's story was the best so far with amazing villains, but I doubt they actually knew the prior expansions at all.
So if anything, they are making the game for the current playerbase, I think that is a more acceptable term to use.
I enjoy twinking and gold making in retail, the communities are great around them. I get grossed out being forced into TWW content though and try to avoid it. The soft/hard reset every phase/xpac gets old once you've seen a few. The ability bloat is also insane, makes me really not enjoy my max level characters.
FFXIV takes a LOT of cues from WoW, but it diverges in that there's so much more outside of the main story quest and gear progression. It keeps its older content relevant. Housing, as chafing as it is to get into, allows guilds and individuals to set up RP hubs like cafes and clubs or even just give players an avenue through some form of creative expression, even if hardly anyone visits strangers homes out of the blue. New emotes and class agnostic transmogs (that aren't eye sores) are being introduced to the game constantly, many of them themed, and they're not afraid to show skin either.
All this to say WoW's problem is that it's developed with a one track mind and it's too afraid to diverge from the same path it's followed since vanilla-retail. They need to stop funneling the lion's share of development resources and players into raids and leaving everything and everyone else to flutter in a stagnant wind.
“I have no friends playing the game. And that sucks” 🙌
the music was the last straw, GG
well @20:40 you can find that in ff14 still.
Call me crazy but flying killed the game, its that simple
Another thing dude..... As a new player you cant access chromie time. New players are lvling through DF which sets up tww very well
Classic + please and I will come back
I haven't even purchased the War Within yet. But I'm still playing Classic Era. The lack of community in retail is a huge aspect for me, and that it's not instant gratification in classic. There is something about getting online, playing for 3 hours and only gaining 3-4 bars of exp. Then waiting around for guildies to help you in a dungeon. It feels like a bunch of people/family who want to play a game together. Sometimes I'll get online just to chat. One of the guild officers hosts a real life radio show 1 night a week that many of us will tune in to, request songs and talk about the music. --THAT is what WoW is about. Not what flying mount we just purchased.
Additionally, retail has become too complicated. I've only dabbled in each expansion since WotLK. But each time I come back, I'm more and more confused with the spells. The groups needing to absolutely faceroll dungeons with no explanation. And if you make an error, the whole group disbanding. It's just not fun.
It brought me back! Then a month and a half later I quit.. AGAIN!
I just feel like when I take a break, my catchup is huge and unenjoyable. I just wish PvP was given a tiny bit of respect and effort. Running Delves was fun for a little and Mythic+ is boring af now.
Modern WoW is proof that developers need to protect players from themselves. Many of the worst changes were things which players specifically advocated for, without understanding the detrimental effects on the game. Now, those effects are in your face and unavoidable.
Skill based progression systems are the future of MMO's.. Character leveling/classes just makes it fall apart eventually.. We have seen this time and again with every MMO with a leveling system and the few with skill based progression systems end up standing the test of time.
What is that supposed to mean? Progression built on in-game challenges instead of time spent? I mean, classes aren't really problematic by themselves, they serve the fantasy of the world after all.
What do you mean by these exactly?
@@JohnRengo-h4w Nothing wrong with classes but it's when you get locked into a class..
Have you ever learned a skill in real life? It's the same thing.. You train at it and you get better at the skill whether it's a type of martial art or trade.. You don't need any other systems in place.. Things like abilities and talents could be unlocked with whatever skill you decide to use and gain skill points in, it's used based progression.. WoW should have never gotten rid of their weapon skill system from Classic WoW, they should have gotten rid of character leveling instead and improved on it..
When I was working on a private server it was something I intended to eliminate, I converted all the classes into various skills and ended up with about 50 skills and when you raise a skill you get abilities/talents to go with it and you sort of stack them up, players were given a hard cap of 700.0 points which worked out perfectly, it means they could max 7 skills at 100.0 points each.. Unlocking the final talents/abilities at 100.0.. Stats also were governed by skills and professions became apart of the same skill system.. You could essentially have a crafter with 700.0 points dumped into crafting abilities only and no combat skills, it essentially made "crafters" a class.. Your character attributes would raise along with your skills, casting spells and raising your magery would gain you intelligence, using a stealth ability would gain you in a stealth skill and agility, using a two handed mace you'd gain strength, go out mining and you gain stamina, you could also set skills to lower/raise if you wanted to change your build.. Gear would have been restricted to what your attributes were but I never got that far. I found that it was easier to have skills go from 0.1 - 25.0 and for every 25.0 points is when the skill improved and the character would unlock new abilities and talents.
Here is a example
Tactics was one of the skills I added
Tactics (Warrior)
0 0-25: Battle Shout, Commanding Shout
26-50: Demoralizing Shout, Shield Bash
51-75: Disarm, Tactical Mastery
76-100: Mocking Blow, Warbringer
Tactics (Warrior)
Tier 1 (0-25)
Improved Shout: Increases the duration of shouts by 5%.
Battle Shout: Increases attack power by 5%.
Tier 2 (26-50)
Commanding Shout: Increases stamina by 10%.
Demoralizing Shout: Reduces enemy attack power by 10%.
Tier 3 (51-75)
Shield Bash: Reduces the cooldown of Shield Bash by 10%.
Disarm: Increases the duration of Disarm by 10%.
Tier 4 (76-100)
Tactical Mastery: Increases overall tactical effectiveness by 15%.
Warbringer: Reduces cooldown of charge abilities by 10%.
Cant say I agree. MMOs should not focus on progressing through skill alone, its an RPG. You should be able to progress by playing a role and that is more than just your class. Being a blacksmith, being a rich dude, being a carry etc etc. Plus, if the progression would be through player skill, who decides where the line of player skill is? You would literally have to use a bar that says "this is an average player so it has average gear" and then well, u get in a ton of issues - first one from the top of my mind its a lack of perfect balance, classes would still not be equal so people with equal skill could have huge diffrences in their progression. There are of course a ton of other problems with that
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 the most balanced games I have played have been MMOs where skill is the main form of progression, Ultima Online, Darkfall, Mortal Online, and a bunch of others, what they do is dial back on the gear progression so that the power creep isn’t as high, your skills outweigh what you wear.. Depending on what skills you work typically determines your class. use based skill systems are also more fun. UO came out almost a decade before WoW in 1997 and came with a skill progression system.. It’s still there and you can still play it, Outlands is a lot of fun.. It is very balanced, grindy and fun.. But it’s also a sandbox.
@@Eyrothath I mean, as I said I did not mention all the problems, I think there is a huge ammount of them - too much to cover into a comment section (but I have to agree is an interesting topic mate, might make it into a video and put the deserved ammount of effort into responding). But what I can say, and its not a diss on those MMOs you mentioned, but I am saying, the fact that I only heard of Ultima Online says something about them. Something is up with them since they are far from really successful, not sure what but if that is the progression system present there I would say that might be a big reason
What’s you’re source on the gap between wow and the runner up? They don’t release player numbers.
I would also argue that the runner up is a different version of WoW lol
The runner up is definetly not another version of WoW. They dont release numbers but there are some ways to guess, thats how we knew that for a few months back in Shadowlands FF14 actually surpassed wow
It's made for the "modern audience" and that's cool with me. I'll just hang out in classic when WoW was awesome.
This guy gets it.
💞💞💞💞
I think you bring up some good points on some things classic does better than retail such as atmosphere and less ubisoft-like mechanics and pay 2 win. But the problem with any static game like Classic is that you can't keep replaying it forever. At this point, it's been there, done that for most of us. Also retail does many things much better than classic as well. Classic does not respect your time (incredibly slow and monotonous leveling, downtime, long flights, no modern QoL), is not alt friendly at all, has mostly tank and spank basic mechanics, boring class design and too slow paced gameplay. It also just has far less content, almost no collectibles etc. It was good back in the day when there weren't many games to play, but nowadays there are far more games worthy of your time than you have to play before you die. The fast pace of retail allows you to get the most of your limited time on earth and skip most of the crap so that you can actually experience other games. Playing 5-10 hours a week of retail is far more worth it than in classic is the bottom line, especially if you've played classic before.
I would say classic respects your time a lot more. I start playing at level 1 and every second I keep playing is good and rewarding. Its easy to understand, I dont have to waste hours learning what weakauras addons and bosses do to be able to start - not to be good but just to start playing the game. I dont invest 100+ hours into a character that becomes average at best the second a new patch drops since my gear is now not even close to being as good as it once was. Retail is the definition of asking for time when its not the case and throwing all your time out the window after 2 months for no good reason.
Collectibles are nice for sure and I would love classic to have more, but when there are 10000000 mounts, toys, transmogs etc almost none matter after all. You are right on the QoL stuff, classic could improve a lot there, like a ton and I hate classic purists who are against that, for example dual spec added to the new fresh servers is amazing.
As for been there, done that, you are right. And even so, classic keeps pulling people in. if retail stopped right now and never iterated, no one would play in a year. Plus, retail has been "been there done that" for years now, I would say since Legion. This last patch is the best testament to that, we had this sht (90%) in dragonflight too. Every xpansion and patch is the same
Let's see if the Baldman reacts to this!
The War Within was the last straw, i've become apathetic towards to work of modern blizzard, which is worse than disliking the game. I'm playing TurtleWoW which is a much better experience and what classic+ should be imo but i can't trust that blizz won't gamify their future plans with classic and turn it into a watered down version of retail
@@nicholasgonzalez the gamifing is such a huge problem that is not really talked about, and blizz really has a problem with that
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 yes. The classic wow experience focuses on the world and rpg elements whereas the modern wow has become a bunch of UI systems where u hop into various gamemodes from the capital city loby and never have to interact with anyone
can't believe all this time, i actually prefer vanilla wow phase 3 (bwl release )
there are servers focus on side contents like leveling survival mode, negative reputation pvp, actual farms, jumping quests, fornite bg, pokemons arena, sims house in ogri/storm, and more modern custom quest chains to polish the zone story.
there will not be a single big thing that can fix wow, its multiple side little things that tell the same story differently.
Hot take and feel free to rip me a new one. I can't get through tge pre cata leveling. I always gat stuck in the late barrens and late westfall and end up going back to retail. I actually made it to max level in cataclysm even though i was also playing wrath. Not to get the wrong idea i didn't really like bfa or shadowlands. I respect the hell out of classic and love watching others play it and i fell in love with hardcore but i can't get through it and now that i am a whole husband and father i don't really have time to anymore.
its not an mmorpg. its a seasonal mobile game with every singe mobile game and retail subsctibtion monetization ever imagined.
8:41 I mean why are you even qing for M+ with randoms if you haven't even done the dungeon? At least do a couple of normals or heorics beforehand, read the ingame guide at the very least... People doing endgame content without preparing for it doesn't make sense, you either tryhard or casual WoW but not both, can't have your cake and eat it too.
The point is about normals. I remeber the days when my old computer took like 1 minute to load a dungeon and I always spawned there alone since everyone (sometimes the tank alone) could just destroy everything in their path without a 5th person. Learning through normals is not a good idea for a new player, and yes, you have to watch youtube guides next, thats what I did for years, that is what everyone is doing, but its far from ideal. Any time you are 100% required to use external sources and get external addons is a lose, a good game its good on its own from start to finish and does not need to create a huge barrier for new players
@ivanthespacebiker5390 but I'm not talking about external guides, but the in-game aventure guide that explains the fights for each role, on the other hand if you are in an item level bracket where the tank destroys everything then you should queue for heroics, and so on, the problem with mythic+ is twofold: on one hand people expect everyone to know the mechanics (as they should if you are queueing for mythics with randoms instead of a group of friends that would have more patience with you) and 2) people gear up doing whatever other content instead of dungeons and then queue for mythic+ without having set foot in a dungeon before. I should know cause I did that too once, then I had to go back and learn the fight as to not be a burden for everyone else. The information is there, but people don't want to learn, WoW is a slow burn game if you're casualling it but most people behave like wannabe MDI players and then complain because they're not at the skill level they thought they were.
There's even the followers systems now which if far from ideal at least would give you a general look of a dungeon on your own without anyone else outpacing you. But people don't do that either.
My point is, people should generally prepare themselves for the content they want to do, just because there's easy/fast ways to queue for stuff doesn't mean you should do it without at least a surface level knowledge of it.
@@4idenn The in game guide is not enough for bosses and does literally nothing for the mobs - probably the most important part of an M+ run depending on the dungeon. Using the game to get good is not a choice be for real now, u need a ton of addons and you need youtube guides. Heroics and normals same shit, everyone steam rolls them and from M0 and up people start leaving like crazy. The only good thing I can say is that very recently the issue got so bad that blizzard announced they will look into punishing leavers
There is no way Retail gets the feel of OG WoW back. They just don't want to. I think they have forged exactly the consumer they want, now the majority of the retail players are ok with how they are treated. If its a bit too bitter they get a little something to forget the pain - or big "Doubleyou for Blizz" is what the current Blizzard fans would say.
With what they have left - and that's quite a bit - they can play the good Blizz - bad Blizz game for a while...
Hiring Metzen was just one of those treats for the WoW-consumer - now the 90 Dollar mount and paid early access doesn't hurt as much, right?
I agree all of your points. +i can add something wich is PVP on retail. I haven't bought War Within because I don't think it's changed, so I don't know what it's like now, but it's always been like this in the last 2-3 expansions. In the first 1-2 months of a new expansion and patch maybe you can enjoy bgs and arena but after that its dead. Im not willing to pay sub for a game where i have to wait 25-30 min BG queses always. I know playing on private servers is a crime for big blizzard funboys but i dont give a fck xD right now im playing on warmane onyxia its in tbc p1 right now and here BG usually calls immediately, but even if not immediately, I've never had to wait more than 1-2 minutes. The fact that PVP is dead on retail only tells me one thing, the current playerbase who enjoy BOOSTS, RMT gold and every shit are fcking pussies. Thats why they dont play pvp because in pvp skill metters not only money.
When metalhead devs left blizzard that was end 🫤,now they make armor sets that are cute to girs and young moms ,no more war horde vs aliance you can play bg for another fraction no world pvp no nothing intresting tier sets was status simbols and no you can get them in 5 days 😅 i come back becose of nostalgia and i rage after month or 2 .
There is no man or boy who want butterfly vings on their set .
Rip my favorite game this make me soo sad ..
I don't really think it is made for existing fans, since the game no longer retains any of that magic that got people to fall in love with it or the franchise. Nor is it really made for new fans, since the game has an atrocious onboarding experience. The only treads on the tire are the ones to keep the mythic players playing, the world first raiders raiding and the "whales" whaling. They waited too long to make an impressionable story. The world has been gutted and has no impact on your gameplay. Leveling is no longer a journey and is a thing in the way. It used to be a learning experience and now the game teaches you nothing. It spends far too much time carving off current content, not to mention the vast majority of the game also being ignored, collecting dust. It's a lobby game with vistas, It has no magic, no soul, no passion and no desire to push boundaries or to invoke emotional responses on any level.
But hey we're getting housing, which iam genuinely thrilled about. (unless they beef it).
First of all, I actually trully believe they will nail that aspect for many diffrent reasons. But regarding the first point, I do really believe they are making it for existing players. I dont agree with their design and I think the game is fucked beyond belief and needs a reset but they do listen to their playerbase a lot and do what they really believe it would make them happy. That being said, yes, it comes with the big downside that they cater to a group of people that is so damn small compared to the number of people who dont play because the game is designed this way
@@ivanthespacebiker5390 I dont really think that it caters to a small group, rather that the group it does cater to doesn't embody the ideal(s) that make an mmo, an mmo. All the impetus is put on instanced content and not the game world as a whole. So all the world building aspects that would previously drive the game forward are now replaced with motionless short term seasonal pursuits. Essentially they have patched the "life" out of the game. You have no incentive to stick around or to grow attatched, since now the game is only as big as the top end of the current season.