The law in Aladdin wasn't obsolete. Neither the sultan nor the princess wants see the princess marry a man of lower status. She is not going to marry down.
That technically means Thanos is a Disney Villain too. He should wish upon a star, oh wait. He don't have to, he just needs to wave his finger or something.
Michael Brent huh? Isn't Prince Hans a good example of what I meant by a charismatic villain? Unless, you meant the tyrant vs outcast type of villain. To which, I say huh???? Cos I didn't say anything about that
Part of a good villain is to be able to gain followers or manipulate the protagonist. Scar is one of my favorite examples with this because he is so obviously Hitler and look what he did! He rallied a whole country to commit genocide and go to war against most of the world all in the name of making Germany great again.... Oh shit that sounds eerily familiar.
In defense of King Triton, what parent would let their teenage daughter run off with a guy that she couldn't possibly even know? Dude didn't even know her name.
yeah Triton as a father only tried to protect Ariel. would have probably been easier if her mother would been around to calm Triton. "just let it be, its gonna be two weeks and shes over this phase."
I understand and sympathize with where Triton was coming from in wanting to keep his daughter safe, but I don't have to agree with his methods. He was very closed minded towards the human world (not without a good enough reason, ill give him that), and he completely rejected that side of his daughter because of that. How did he go about trying to 'protect' her? By constantly yelling at her and ignoring anything she had to say, and oh yeah DESTROYING all of her favorite possessions in a fit of rage right in front of her while she begged him to stop (can somebody please tell me how that's ok?). There's worrying about your child's safety, and there's using your worries as an excuse to be an obnoxious jerk. With that said I do like Triton's character because despite not seeing eye to eye, despite both of them being quite stubborn, and despite the fact that she found happiness among the very humans he wanted her to stay away from, you know that he still loves Ariel just wants her to be happy. And she still loves him too. Also, Ariel wanted be a part of the human world before she even met Eric; seeing Eric was what finally convinced her to try interacting with humans.
I think the reason why he was close minded towards humans was because 1. Pirates killed his wife, Queen Athena on the day his daughters, him, the queen and a few of the merfolks were outside, playing along to musical instruments. (3rd movie, the one with a purple wig wearing nanny) Because of that accident, he hated music for Queen Athena was killed when she was trying to get their music box. At the end of the movie, he gained back his lovel for music but not about being fond with humans. These are my mere thoughts.
Dont forget the 4th type of villain, "comical" which is a character who wants someone to take that villain category seriously, but we The audience who we see them as hilarious, like Captain Hook or Yzma for example.
You could categorize both villains though. Captain Hook is a tyrant outcast who uses his power of being Captain of a pirate crew to try and get rid of Peter Pan, who is essentially the prince of Neverland. Kind of similar to Shan Yu. Yzma was a Tyrant who was outcasted by the Prince because she wanted to become queen for her benefit. Throughout the movie, Kuzco learns to be selfless while Yzma's motive stays the same.
You could probably make loads of categories if you really wanted, but these 2 seems very overarching overall. What you're talking about would be considered sub-categories in comparison.
Jafar was the best disney villain. He wanted power and he was attacking it from multiple angles: trying to marry Jasmine, controlling the Sultan's guards, controlling the Sultan himself, and if none of that works just getting a genie to wish him the power. He even had secret passage ways in the castle that the Sultan himself didn't know about. At the end he wasn't defeated by a minion (like say Scar), but instead was defeated by the protagonist outsmarting him, losing to his own lust for more power. A true masterpiece villain
I think that Frollo was better. He was a man of God, thinking that he was doing God's work, and therefore justified himself to do all of the terrible things he did, believing he was above the "common vulgar weak licentious crowd". Then, after doing what most of us would think as rather trivial, loving another without recieving that love back, he turns his back on his beliefs, instead twisting them into his own perverted portrayals. I mean, in a single song he succumbs to 4/5 of the 7 deadly sins of man. He wants a girl, he'll kill her if she doesn't take him, believes himself above others, wants Maria to strike her down and ends up envying those who can do what they want without fear of being smited. If you were to watch a variant of a live-action Hellfire, look at Jonathan Young's characterisation of Frollo. So unsettling yet you pity him for being so... human.
The real two types of villains: 1) Ones who have motivations that, while we do not agree with them, we can kind of understand and perhaps even sympathize with 2) Ones who want coats made out of puppies
@@balazsszucs7055 When he saw Mulan as "just a woman" before she put her hair up, he considered her to be a civilian, just like the crowd below. The moment she made him recognize her, she became "arch-nemesis" that he prioritized over even getting the emperor to submit. This was personal. Her gender didn't mean anything to him, she had proven herself a greater threat than all the armies of China.
@@bluesbest1 That's because women were expected to learn to fight/know how to fight too in Shan Yu's society so that's why it wasn't a surprise to him. That, and she had already proved herself to him and he wanted revenge.
There's actually a third, more recent Disney Villain category: the Backstabber. A villain whom is neither a tyrant nor outcast, but rather presents themselves first as a friend and ally to the hero, someone in a position which they should be trusted, only to later drop the facade, reveal their true motives and turn against the hero when it has become most convenient for them to. I'd give examples, but these are all recent movies.
I feel as if I could argue differently to that, as a backstabber could also fit into the tyrant category. They lay within the confines of a society, and may or may not have some modicum of power through their trustworthiness. And they abuse that power when they take advantage of the hero through betrayal.
That actually falls more into the Tyrant category, in the sense rhat they’re in trust worthy position for anyone, but they’re looking for their own gain rather than helping others. If you take Frozen for example, you can easily compare it to The Little Mermaid. Anna is Ariel, who trusts in Ursula to get what she wants. Elsa is her father, who looks after Ariel’s well being but comes out as unfair because most things that Ariel wants to do can get her into trouble. And that prince, that I think that’s the villain you’re referring to, is Ursula, that tries to come out as a helping hand for Ariel to gwr what she wants, but in reality couldn’t care less and is just looking for its own gain.
Zamboozle Yeah, I agree. In all of those cases the hero is betrayed by someone with a level of power. Hans is empowered as regent when Anna leaves, thus giving him power over her, Dr Callahan is a teacher, thus giving him power over his students Hiro and Tadashi, and Mayor Bellwether is, well, mayor once Lionheart is arrested, while Judy and Nick and just citizens.
You should do a video essay on the hunchback of Norte dame!!! I’d love to hear your analysis on it! I think it’s one of the most complex films Disney has ever made!
Lindsay Ellis has a marvelous one, if you haven’t seen hers yet. She also has one on Hercules, one on Pocahontas, a short one on Beauty and the Beast’s “Stockholm Syndrome”, and one on Saving Mr. Banks. She is brilliant. A bit more critical and a little more crude in her humor than these gals, but her videos are definitely worth the watch.
I've read somewhere that Mother Gothel, when she's being nice to Rapunzel, calls her 'Flower' and only touches her affectionately when she's touching her hair or kissing her hair. She's only showing her affection to the power of the flower within Rapunzel, rather than Rapunzel herself. Now, knowing this, go back and watch Tangled and the creepiness factor doubles. This was raised after someone, somewhere on the internet suggested that Mother Gothel must have loved Rapunzel somewhat because she had been caring for her all this time as her 'mother', but it's clearly not true when you see her going out of her way to only touch her hair and not kiss her on her forehead.
Gothel always struck me as a bit bi-polar. She goes from freaking Rapunzel out to belittling her to being somewhat affectionate all in the space of a few minutes. That said, she's definitely among the most cunning an manipulative. I would actually love to see a short film on her origins, because they could be quite interesting. Her line about how the world is dark and selfish and cruel doesn't sound like just another horror story she's feeding Rapunzel. It sounds very personal, and makes me think the writers could give her a really good and deep backstory if they tried. As to whether or not she loves Rapunzel, I think that *she* actually does think she loves Rapunzel, but it's obvious what she really loves is the flower.
Willie Oelkers Maybe Cassandra from Tangled the Series is her daughter. She named all sorts of things in her song, poison ivy, quick sand and the plague. Could she have been alive and survived all those by the magical golden flower. In her life time she had a daughter about the same time as the king and queen had Rapunzel. However when Mother Gothel realised the magic was in the child. She switched her own daughter for the princess. 18 years training with the guards and 18 years trapped in a tower until the girls meet and become best friends. Cassandra was adopted and didn't know her mum, that's why she didn't recognise the tower. Gothel and Cassandra lived had no home, Gothel sold the fancy palace clothes on Rapunzel to build the tower. That's my theory
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts about more recent Disney films with less obvious villains. Moana, for example, arguably doesn’t have a villain at all, and although there is an antagonizing force it’s less governed by morality. And even though Frozen has a villain, he’s arguably not what the main character has to overcome in order to restore balance. Interestingly enough I think both films have heroines who need to both accept responsibility and embrace their individuality. Hopefully a sign that Disney writing is becoming more nuanced and sophisticated!
I agree about Moana, the antagonizing force seems to be more a social fear of leaving the island due to her father losing a friend. This paints Moana's father as sort of the "soft antagonist" like Ariel's father because he won't accept his daughter's calling. Moana is of the first type (royal status, social responsibility) and second type (suppressed individuality). There isn't really a central villain, just challenges she must face to find her destiny.
The most recent Disney films deal with villains that operate in the grey area or are mistaken for allies in the beginning of the film. Like you said, Moana doesn't necessarily have a villain like the films in the video show. I think the reason for this evolution in villains is for a few reasons. 1. It is becoming a cliché. Having a villain that is so obviously a villain isn't too interesting and you can only do so many movies around that. 2. You can't write very complex stories with black and white villains/heroes. 3. Life deals in the grey areas. It's more relatable to have a villain whose motives aren't 100% evil. Wreck-It Ralph was the last Disney movie that had a obvious villain motive. That was 2012.
"Hopefully a sign that Disney writing is becoming more nuanced and sophisticated!" That is one of the biggest lies I've read in a long while. Moana aside, which was a movie that didn't have and didn't need a villain, the past 4 movies felt into a mind numbingly annoying and repetitive formula. Hans is not a grey area at all. He's a scheming asshole who pretends to be nice and misunderstood (and because Disney was so lazy that they made him a villain at the last minute). He would basically fall into the "Outcast Villain" category of this video. Professor Callagahan/Yokai is basically a poorman Mr Freeze, with none of the drama and profoundity of the real thing. Bellwether is Hans 2.0, but somehow even shallower and more ill conceived, just fit with Zootopia's nauseatingly liberal progressive propaganda. What all these movies have is a fish out of water protagonist. Frozen and Zootopia have "strong and empowered" girls with high expectations that are faced with "hard reality", BH6 is just a very dumbed down cautionary tale about great power comes with great responsibilities. But in the end, all are so shallow, all are so obsessed with trying to be not like the past movies, they just come off as pretentious, shallow and incredibly preachy. "You can't marry a man you've just met" No shit Sherlock. You told us that 10 years ago in Enchanted. "Life isn't like in fairytales, and learn to accept diversity" The Hunchback of Notre Dame did both themes BILLIONS times better than this preachy, leftist propaganda furry wet dream of a film. Disney movies have become more preachy, more fucking formulaic, more politically correct and more trying too hard to be self aware. The exact opposite of what you claim.
Inside Out was a good example of a disney/pixar without a villain at all. The conflict is strictly just circumstantial, its about how bad things just happen sometimes and its no ones fault. Maybe there's a message there about the danger of repression, but the girls' parents and Joy were misguided and without bad intentions when they encouraged her to repress her negative emotions. And that's why Inside Out is my favorite Pixar film.
I think at first in older movies has the villains represent internal conflict but in recent films it has dropped that for a less hidden stories more pointed to the internal struggles which i like more
Ummm... In Child's Play you got Chucky the doll and in Christine you got this devilish red car. And there are some very weird other horror movies where the villains are crazy objects like a rolling tire of a car, a bunch of rabbits and even a condom...
There's 3 type of villains 1: the ones who have a valid and understandable reason of doing It 2: the ones who are evil because yes 3: and the ones who are known as twist villains...
Your conclusion of being true to yourself and being a responsible made me think of what Disney movie was able to achieve that, but I cannot help but think of the film how to train your dragon 1&2, which is not Disney ironically. the villains aren’t exactly clear-cut with the outcast and tyrant dynamic (maybe mostly outcast), but Hiccup in the past two films first had to accept who he really was before he had to accept the responsibilities of becoming a chief to his community. And he learned that he could be his own version of a leader without compromising who he really is. I think you should do a video essay on that too! :)
Like The Little Mermaid, Hiccup's father was in the soft tyrant role while the dragons and Hiccup were outcasts. The real villain was the dragons own true tyrant. But they're not Disney movies ;) I would love to see them do videos on that series , especially with the third on its way!
I think Elsa from Frozen captures both the "being true to yourself" and "being responsible." After her parent's death, Elsa was groomed into being the next ruler of Arendelle, but at the time, she struggled to hide her ice powers, a vital part of herself. Once she learned to 'let it go' (I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself), and became more comfortable with using her powers to help her sister and defeat the villain, she was able to come back to her kingdom as a more confident queen.
Jum Jum obviously she did that for her father, but the message of the film is more than that. Mulan already didn’t fit in with other women around her. She was outspoken and openly intelligent and thoughtful instead of just trying to be a good bride. She didn’t care about the social standards. Even though she joined the army to protect her father, she stayed to prove herself. They were going to send her home, she wouldn’t have had to fight in the war, but she stayed.
Hmm... One quick thought: In the case of characters like Scar: Doesn't he technically count as BOTH? I mean, he's an outcast at the beginning of the movie, but he's a tyrant from Simba leaving the pridelands to his death... As both he's doing the same sort of thing for the hyenas: using THEM as his power: at first as convincing them that he's "Just like them". Heck, Simba's both a chosen one with a grand fate, and AFTERWARDS is an OUTCAST, until Nala and Rafiki come and get him to go back- and both are akin to Scar's role at the same time points. In the end, however, Simba embraces the "chosen ones" fate, and Scar torn apart by the "fellow" outcasts he betrayed as a tyrant.
But Scar isn't really an "outcast". He's just butthurt because his brother, the king, went and had a son, which bumped Scar from being next in line for the throne. He chose not to go to the ceremony; if he's "outcast", it's a position he put himself in - likely to the bafflement of the other lions. Of course, he probably does see himself that way, in his twisted mind, which is why he was able to so easily con the Hyaenas into thinking he was "one of them" in spirit. Basically, Scar is, and was, always the Tyrant .... we just meet him as the wanna-be Tyrant, who was close to gaining legitimate power before Simba was born.
frollo beats him to me. while scar killed mufasa, frollo burnt people alive to extract information, he also is creepy, obsessed with esmeralda and wages war on defenseless people because he despises their style of life. if any villain comes close to portraying any real dictator - it's frollo.
julijakeit to be its forever scar, I have only seen Disney classics so and even if I saw the movie with frollo in it I would still pick scar for really vaild and accurate reasons
julijakeit I haven’t seen The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and I’m sure Frollo’s great, but I’m gonna defend Scar a little bit. Now, lots of Disney villains have gaining power as their primary motivation (Jafar, Ursula, Yzma, etc.), but the thing about Scar that gets to me personally is how he’s willing to murder his own family to get it. Mufasa was his BROTHER, and while the two of them butted heads a lot, Mufasa still probably cared about and trusted Scar to some extent. Also, if you look at Simba’s early interactions with Scar, the little guy obviously loves him as an uncle. So what does Scar do? He looks right into his brother’s eyes as he sends him to his death, then takes his tearful and mourning nephew (a CHILD) and instills a sense of blame and guilt in him over said death (before immediately ordering his minions to kill Simba anyway). That is just plain SADISTIC. There’s also the part where he convinces a downtrodden underclass (the hyenas) to help him in his coup by convincing them he has their best interests at heart, when in reality, he’s only concerned for himself (seen by the fact that he was willing to blame them for everything when shit hit the fan). Scar promised the hyenas that they’d never go hungry again if they stuck by him, so in their eyes, they must have seen him as a kind of hero. He was their Lenin, offering them an equal place in a society that mistreated them. Of course, once Scar actually gained power, he proved to be more of a Stalin in that his leadership decisions ended up driving the Pride Lands into the ground (much like how Stalin’s policies resulted in widespread famine that killed millions). “Be Prepared” also makes sure to ape Nazi imagery just for good measure, and it’s damn effective. So yeah, that’s why I think Scar belongs in the upper echelon of Disney animated villains.
He's the most evil villian but not the best imo. I saw the movie when I was young and didn't understand any of it lol, until now. Definitely for a mature audience. Btw I haven't seen the whole movie cos its pretty boring.
like this video but why is Wreck it Ralph in the first category, both Valenope and Ralph are outcasts in their own society; they are trying to express or find out who they are while rebelling against King Candy who unlike say Scar is a tryant from the beginning of the movie's timeline. Both Ralph and Vanelope's societies are also quite oppressive and they decide to go against the grain, Ralph by trying to be good despite being evil and Vanelope by racing despite being cast as the glitch.
Rebecca Kaff I'd say this is a The Little Mermaid/Mulan case, with the conflict being both the protagonists feeling out of their society and at the same time having a role they should fill for it's sake. The idea of King Candy always being a tyrant wouldn't really match with this since he (as Turbo) used to be a glitch from an unpopular game, roaming around and looking for a game (the games being universes/societies). He played (no pun indeeded) his way into the game, manipulating it so he would become king, leaving Vanellope as the outcast, who used to be the ruler and, in a way, must reclaim what is rightfully hers.
I'll be honest, I believe that Wreck-It-Ralph's Turbo/King Candy truly straddles the line between outcast and tyrannical villain. Turbo is the outsider who shows what happens when you game-hop (see, "going Turbo"), and King Candy is the Tyrant that takes over Sugar Rush and enforces an oppressive regime. And I believe that because we have two different heroes, two different villian are needed. Ralph needs to go back to his world to take care of his important responsibilities ("It may not be as fancy as being president, but it’s my duty, and it’s a big duty"). And to save Sugar Rush From Both King Candy and the ravages of the CyBugs, Vanellope needs to be herself.
Wreck it Ralph can actually be both because king candy is both a tyrant and an outcast and Ralph can be seen as the one seeing his responsibility and Vanellope is the “secret” royalty or racer
These villains are have what made disney great, but I've often like the villains who have justifiable reasons and believe they are doing the right thing (example Professor Callahan in Big Hero 6)
Tor A. Part I find Claude Frollo to be such a wonderful character. He is a man of the clergy, trained to suppress his own carnal desires in order to be able to become closer to God, and lead others to Him. But, he finds himself tempted by a woman and cannot reconcile the desires, long suppressed, of the flesh, and the duty he has lived his life for. I honestly can't help but feel his pain. Yes, he kept Quasimodo imprisoned, but as we see during the festival scene, for good reason. The society would not accept him and instead would hate and fear him as a demon. He could have been more open with Quasimodo as to why he was kept inside, but that is a flaw more related to his highly legalistic attitude, another part of him I understand. I think Frollo is a tragic villain. He committed evil acts not out of pure hatred, but because he couldn't allow himself to feel anything. The conflict drove him insane.
William Turner SPOILERS Justifiable? No. Sympathetic? Yes. My heart goes out to him, but he ultimately became the thing he hated; a person who caused the death of the innocent loved one of someone else (even though his daughter turned up alive). He did literally kill Tadashi; its essentially third degree murder
Hieronymus di Colonna I’d think hades would be a combo as well. Hades has traits of the tyrant, because he is ruler of the underworld. He controls the monsters he sends Hercules’ way and even has the ability to free the titans from their prison. He also has traits of the outcast villain in that he isn’t satisfied in his place as only ruling the underworld and seeks to overthrown Zeus his brother, similar to Scar and Mufasa.
this is why the conflict in frozen doesnt really work. it would have if elsa had been the villain but when hans got into the mix it strives away from this theory. (although you can say that frozen applies to the exception rule that is that hans is an outcast-tyrant, when anna and elsa are the outsiders with a chosen one esque destiny)
hapichapi yea I would say Hans is the tyrant and Elsa is the chosen one. Anna is just there to encourage her along her path, similarly to Nala with Simba.
hapichapi - this is exactly why I didn't enjoy Frozen very much as well as most new Disney movies. There is something classic about an obvious struggle between good vs evil I expect in Disney movies. The movies this video talks about shows that sort of conflict works. Elsa was never a "villian" nor did anyone really go against her. It was more a a misunderstanding. Hans was a weak villian and I couldn't really care about his motivations. It annoyed me greatly when people kept hailing that movie as the greatest Disney movie. It is definitely not that great compared to say, The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
hapichapi The conflict is definitely more complex. As a queen Elsa's A Chosen One, as her magic makes her an Outsider in her own land, the reaction of the little one points this out. As a spare, who was ignorant of her sister's powers Anna is an Outsider in the royal court, as the one with the truest of family love she's A Chosen One, who prevailed over Hans the petty spare who lied about love.
@aangita Yeah, I hated Hans most besides the absolutely stupid parents. How It Should Have Ended says everything about their moronic choices. Hans turning out to be "the" villain added absolutely nothing to the film. The end with him (iirc?) taking a shot at Elsa and Anna blocking it could have just as easily been one of their subjects trying to do the right thing and defeat the "villain". Death from misunderstanding rather than tyrannical ambition would've been more poetic. Plus Anna realizing she and Hans don't know each other that well and she quite likes the other guy without Hans being deceptive would've been good too...
Someone did a good breakdown of this in another comment. It seem like it's a very Little Mermaid kind of set-up, with Anna being the chosen one aka Ariel, Elsa being the 'fake villain' aka Ariel's father and Hans being the true villain who befriends the hero aka Ursula.
I would argue that Wreck it Ralph is actually an example of a tyrant villain. King Candy is a tyrant ruler and Venelope has to embrace what makes her different (her glitch)
In some respects this reminds me of Brave. While we do sympathize/empathize with Merida in how she wants to live her life away from social expections and responsibilities, we see why Elinor finds an individual path over society's customs and laws a danger as well.
I'd like to see an analysis how the notion of what is a "just world" and what is a corrupt, oppressive world have also changed with they history of disney movies, while the general outline of the outcast-king/queen dichotomy is still mostly the same.
Clayton from Tarzan is another underrated villain. He was quite scary. He had a Jafar quality but towards gorillas. He certainly fits the tyrant persona.
I just watched The Hunchback of Notre Dame again today and I LOVE IT SO MUCH. It deals with such serious, real issues like injustice, lust, religion, oppression, emotional abuse, etc. I'm so glad you haven't forgotten about that movie in this video, as it's often overlooked. Plus, Frollo is my favourite Disney villain just because he's so realistic; his struggles are relatable to some degree and real, he can't rely on magic and use that to abuse his power, AND Hellfire is an amazingly powerful villain song. Thank you for including this masterpiece of a movie!
For me the two types are 1: The kind that you sing along to the songs with (ex. Scar, the evil stepmother, ect) 2. The ones that make me want to throw my shoe at the screen (turbo, Gaston, etc)
Fun vid :) I love the stories that end with a transformation in heart for the villain as well as the hero. Drives home that all the characters in any story are just aspects of our own psyche. Sometimes it is parental figures who take the villain role in these movies as they themselves learn to become better parents through the course of the movie with help of a trickster character. Mary Poppins and Peter Pan and even Moana fit the pattern of the parent becoming less controlling or narcissistic or fearful. Not a Disney film, but one of the most impactful animated films I've seen is 'Song of the Sea.' I love how the Owl Witch parallels the real life Granny character's fear of and suppression of emotion, and then how she transforms as she just lets shit go.
I think that there is also a third spot "The Unstoppable Villain", the Villains in Disney movies that are almost forces of nature and are the most feared, Examples like •The Headless Horseman, from The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad •Tyrannosaurus, from Fantasia •Monstro, from Pinocchio these villains you must overcome and defeat, or (in the cases of the Horseman and T-rex) DIE!!!
@@insertusername4079 they might have been bought by Disney hit their brand is very different the story telling ect, so when thought they do come under Disney umbrella they're not Disney movies
With the idea of the two categories make these villains even more one dimensional and that kind of diminishes who they are as villains. Some stories could be better off with villains that have more sides to them. Like a villain who does evil acts but whole heartedly believes their actions are good. Or better yet a villain who only became one because they were told they were. Elsa could’ve easily become a villain because she was feared.
One of my absolute favorites from you! I come back here often! It's weird how most of the comments here miss the point of your video but your thesis is fantastic!
Ever notice that some outcast villains psychologically or physically abuse the hero? Just look at Cinderella and Tangled! You could say the same about tyrants, mainly focusing on Claude Frollo's treatment of Quasimodo.
He is a bit of both. Turbo was the hero of his own game, however as more advanced games came into the arcade, he became an outcast since no-one would play his game. This ultimately forced him to become a tyrant so he can stay relevant by attempting to take over other racing games.
Hey you two! I love your channel to pieces and I love this video about Disney villains! I think you two should do a follow up video regarding the recent trend of twist Disney villains, like in the Toy Story series, Frozen, and Coco. There’s aspects of outcast and tyrant villains in each instance, but I noticed that you primarily fixated on films made by Disney, rather than expanding outward to Pixar, and that Pixar doesn’t tend to follow these trends. I think this topic could be a good segway into those films, while using what you’ve brought up in this video as background basis. All and all, I wish you both even greater success with this channel! Your work is quality and it’s great seeing female creators on TH-cam putting forth such compelling analysis. :)
One issue though, Frolo in the books was a much kinder individual who cared for Quasimodo like his son, and even taught him sign language when he started going deaf due to the bells. He was benevolent in his deeds in the books, but that didn’t mean he always did the right thing.
I think she's a bit of both. She is part of the government system and eventually become mayor (tyrant), but before she became mayor, she was shown to be pushed around, overlooked, and underappreciated (outcast). So she went from tyrant-outcast to tyrant.
Well, look at the society around them. Is it a just society that isolates Bellwether's evil, or is it an unjust society that the hero needs to make changes in? It's a pretty species-ist world, and Judy is a square peg in a round hole. I'd say this looks like a tyrant movie.
Great video! I especially loved how you summarized Mulan, so many people see the rebellious side and misunderstand her goals. I love her character for her selfless desire to help her family both physically and socially. She's more than a bra burner, as fun as her genderswap storyline is, it's just a means to an end. It's why I think she's so relatable, that mix of rebel and chosen one.
I actually see Turbo as a combination of the tyrant and the outcast villain. On the one hand, he changes the code of Vanellope's game in order to steal her throne and cast her out as a glitch, and poisons her kingdom. On the other hand, we see Ralph living in a world that already had a questionable value system. As the scripted bad guy, Ralph is an essential part of his game. Without him, there is no game. However, he never gets any appreciation or respect for the job he does. He is an outcast by definition, while Vanellope is a hero with a destiny and responsibility. That being said, Turbo had to have the qualities of both the tyrannical and the outcast villain. Just wanted to throw that out there.
I feel like the Lion King is more about the trauma as to why Simba won’t return. He had to *see* the death of his father, and in the same event got told by the scary uncle who /caused/ said event that he should never come back. He is probably pretty traumatized by that and doesn’t want to come back because he fears the place he grew up, the place his father died. He has to be convinced by Nala to come back because he has found a purpose and a way to move past his childhood trauma with Timone and Pumba, along with their phrase Hakuna Matata. To go back means confronting what he has refused to all these years.
The only thing I would disagree with is that most people feel like Ariel or Mulan. To my mind, most people see themselves as Esmeralda or Pocahontas because they see society as corrupt and tyrannical. At least within my own millennial age group, you’d be hard pressed to find someone like me who says “the system is fine, it’s the few rotten apples that spoil the bunch.”
Its not about their perception of society. Objectively, society is both bad and good and so naturally people fall into the category of being antagonized by both exiled and tryannical forces.
Generations tend to go in cycles. They get more conservative, then more liberal, then more conservative, etc. For example, the 1950s was a period of hyper-conformity and conservativism. The country had just seen two wars (WWII and Korea) and wanted some normalcy. Younger generations grew weary of the new "don't rock the boat", which led to beatniks and, later, hippies. This grew as more people began to view the Vietnam War as an entirely pointless waste of lives and resources. Something similar happened fairly recently. People learned the Iraq War was started under intentionally false pretenses (Saddam's totally making nukes, guys). This was followed by the greatest economic crash since the Great Depression, which made Millennials disillusioned. The government lies, the military goes along with the lies, and the corporations will get away with destroying the economy because they gave "contributions" (legalized bribes) to the right politicians.
a lot of times it IS a few people who ruin things for everyone. im a millennial too but yea many people are just too stupid or shallow or busy to do anything but it is the rotten apples that take advantage of it and manipulate others so easily much of the time.
Dude, I didn't realize there a science behind these movies. Also, I'm writing a book, and I realized that its plot fits right into the "villainous outcast and the chosen hero" storyline exactly! And I didn't even realize it!!!
without giving too many spoilers about Avengers Infinity Wars; Thanos can be seen as an Chosen One Disney Hero; one that put the need of the Universe before his own desires and wishes, and the commentary reveals that he is also a bit of the Outcast, based on his past of growing deformed on his planet of Titan.
I've always wondered why I like some Disney characters more than others, and now I know! I have always felt more like an outcast, a person that fights unjust societal structures, so I feel more identified with those heroes. I also always had a lot more interest in stories of marginalized/opressed people and their fates, than those involving royalty.
I'd be careful about how you word the lesson from Princess and the Frog. From the way you said it, it sounds like she had to chose love over her ambitions, which isn't what I took away from the movie at all because she still gets her restaurant and works hard to do it. I think the lesson is more that if you only focus on one thing or overwork yourself, you're bound to lose sight of things that maybe just as important. In Tiana's case, working so hard to get the restaurant that she ignores friends, having good experiences with others, and potential lovers was detrimental to having meaningful bonds with others and her goal could become hollow, once achieved. No one in the movie that was supporting her EVER said that she should give up her dream and ambitions (which is what I heard from your meaning of the story) but instead, take a step back and realize that there's more to life than JUST getting her restaurant. Her friends from the beginning of the movie never tell her to stop, only to take a night off. Her mother is probably one of her biggest supporters of getting the restaurant, but she also wants Tiana to be happy with another person (and grandkids). Hell, Facilier would have given her the restaurant with a snap of his fingers because he knew that she was THAT ambitious, but she had learned the difference between need and want. As must as we may dislike it, humans are social creatures, even the most introverted introverts require SOME basic interaction with someone or something besides themselves, they go insane otherwise. Just saying, I'd be a little more careful with how you phrase TPatF's moral because your phrasing is more open to a more negative interpretation and I doubt that you meant to have one
That is a good point. Princess and the Frog is one of my favorite movies. It is more complicated than a typical Disney movie. I have seen other people misunderstand it. I think the theme can just be a work-life balance. I am not a huge fan of Disney villains. Facileir is the typical kind, and he is not too interesting. However an even better character to oppose Tiana is Naveen. He is not a villain per es. He is just more fun loving than she is. The two form a great foil. Their minor clashes and conflicts are far more interesting and nuanced. They eventually find a nice middle ground. Heck Mary Poppins has the same theme, and it does fine without a big bad. The foil in that movie is Mary Poppins and George Banks. Thier conflict is interesting enough to carry the whole story. It is like Princess in the frog, but the Female protagonist has her role reversed. The closest thing that the story has to a villain is the bank leaders. Even then they don't show up much, and they work just like bankers in real life. They even point out the bank being good for funding the inferstructure of society. This is nuanced. One has got to wonder where these benefits are worth George Banks neglecting his family the way he does. George Banks is a banker, and his bosses are more extreme than he is. Bert is like Mary Poppins but more extreme. He is not stern or strict at all. He's so wacky, goofy and fun. It wierd in hindsight that the same actor, Dick Van Dyke, played both extremes in the same movie. That is a stark foil indeed.
King Triton wasn't exactly a bad guy, but more like the Beast : just watch at the climax when he sacrifices himself only to save his daughter from the evil pact she deliberately signed like a fool selfish child, totally unaware of any responsibility matters, with a twisted witch such as Ursula...
This is such a complex and nuanced thing, and it was really awesome to see you guys break it down. Also, Ariel and Mulan were pretty much my favorite characters/movies as a kid, and it's because of the combination and nuance- between fighting to be yourself outside of rigid societal roles, but that battle is separate from fighting selfish, evil people - even when they're outsiders like us. I think Belle has some similar conflicts, between her society - of which Gaston is a symptom and a tyrant - and her initial conflicts with the selfish Beast. But she fights him with kindness, he gets growth and redemption, and they fight the tyrant. I'm rambling now, but this was awesome, loved it! Very useful for thinking about personal struggles, as well as for writing stories and conflicts.
The recent Disney movies like Raya and the Last Dragon and Encanto don't have "pure villains" who either die the traditional Disney villain death by falling or are humiliated anymore which is both refreshing and interesting bc it shows Disney movies don't need to have antagonists in order to create conflict and plot. They have reformed villains now. Hell, they did this with Inside Out and Inside Out is the first Pixar movie to not have a villain. They were originally going to have a villain named Gloom but Gloom's characterization was ableist and demonizes people who have depression which is why they decided to not have a villain. Namaari and her mother in Raya and the Last Dragon are the closest characters to be villains and they redeemed themselves in the end. The character who is closest to a villain in Encanto is Alma, the grandmother, who was borderline emotionally abusive towards Mirabel and she changed near the end after realizing it is her fault that the magic disappeared and not Mirabel's.
I’m curious about some of the older villains who may not have been either. I feel like Cruella De Vil, Madame Medusa, Clayton, and Edgar all fit in with society but through their own greed they conflict with heroes who they have power over. But this power does not extend to power over the larger community. And then you look at these characters who know who aren’t exactly trying to embrace their individuality but are simply trying to find themselves and achieve what they set out to achieve.
They are all tyrants in the sense that they try to force their will or image on others. While they do not have a large domain, they do rule whatever they can with an iron fist. While they operate on a smaller scale than the examples in the video, their methods and motivations remains largely the same.
Definitely. There is either the obvious villain we see making evil plans throughout the story (such as Thanos or Scar), or the hidden ones that back-stab the hero halfway through (such as Prince Hans or Mayor Bellwether)
But the main course of the film is about Simba accepting his responsability as the righteous ruler after running away from it. I dare say Scar was mainly an outcast, but I agree with you about him having the tyrant traits after the later half of the movie.
I'm interested in stories in which the protagonist and the antagonist are equal in positions, "made of the same dough." As one wise wizard used to say, "Choice determines who we are."
I think that as much as Gastan symbolizes restrictive female roles and expectation so does King Triton. It isn't that Ariel thinks of her dad as the villian is that through his lack of willingness to communicate he shows he is villainous. He screams, destroys her treasures, and locks and controls not only Ariel but ALL of his daughters. He is the definition of tyranical, even by the standards of this video. He wants to keep things the same and is unwilling, to an explosive way (especially if you include the prequel), to keep them that way. The fact that this behavior all this is glossed over, ignored, or rationalized as "for her own good" is more villainous than Ursla ever was. *This* behavior is the definition of the realistic toxic masculinity that has faced women for centuries. Yes, oppressive over masculine jerks are out there. But subtle oppression out of a twisted sense of love is much more common, ignored, and just as detrimental. I wouldn't call King Triton a "soft antagonist".
Lynette Floyd What I like about Triton or his role in "The little mermaid" is that he's maybe the first Disney parent who allows mixed feelings. Yes, he is a tyranic ruler but because he's afraid for his daughter and doesn't see another way to protect them. In the sequel it is explained that it's because he lost Arielle's mother. And that he wants to keep especially Arielle away from the human world because she reminds him so much of his wife. And I guess that's an important lesson to learn as a child, that they can have ambivalent feelings against other persons even your parents like pity, anger or fear in the same Moment. I like Triton's developement in the story.
Mara Yeah, that is all true. To me though, that's what makes King Triton (and his unwillingness to bend) is the true conflict Ariel has to overcome in the story and thus the *real* villian. In the end she does and so she triumphs. Ursla in all actuality is a catalyst to that resolution. If not for Ariel and Eric having that adversary to show Triton he probably wouldn't have grown.
Lynette, that's very interesting analysis of the Triton. What humanizes him (no pun intended) is that we get to see he actually suspects he is wrong in treating Ariel like he does but his bigotry towards humans is so deeply embedded that it triggers his tyrannical side. I can't say that 'toxic masculinity' is the only responsible aspect in the movie as we get to experience the 'toxic femininity' in Ursula as well. It's more like comparing people with power but no accountability. A lot of entitled managers are like that - those managers, be it parents, corporation managers or government believe they are better just because they have the title 'manager' without having to earn the respect or discuss their decisions. "As long as you live under my roof" - how many times have we heard that from our parents? "As long as you work here" - how many times have we heard that from our managers? In the end, though, we see all main characters overcome their flaws.
TheRapper10000 See, the idea that a father goes out of his way to yell and destroy his daughters treasures and that is deemed in anyway "typical" dad behavior is kind of the problem. That shouldn't be typical father behavior. It's not normal and not okay.
The thing people forget about Triton is he's not just trying to protect some societal standard, he's trying to protect his daughters in a world that clearly has powerful beings who would, and did, take advantage of them. While I don't agree with all of his views or actions, I would argue that most of them are fueled by the desire to protect his daughters and the knowledge that there are dangerous people out there who would absolutely hurt them or take advantage of them.
I wouldn't call Mulan's villain an outcast. He wasn't "rebelling" against anyone. He was a conquerer who was trying to invade another country. Purely tyrant.
Wow, great video. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this. So much information and a bit of backstory for these villains, it was just an all around awesome video. Thank you for sharing this with us. I never realized just how similar a lot of the Disney Villains are until I saw this video. They have a lot more in common than I would have ever thought. But yeah, again, I commend you on making such a great video and putting in so much information about these villains that most of us never knew. I really enjoyed watching this and again, thank you for making this video.
Actually, Mulan's goal was to save her father. Her inner *desire* was to find her place in a world where she didn't seem to fit, but finding it is more along the lines of Cinderella's finding love while at the ball she wanted to attend for a fun night out. I forget how you said it, but basically it was a reward she deserved for actions she took not aiming to achieve the reward but other worthy goals, & earned it anyway.
Makes me wonder where Auto falls in Wall-E, he maybe falls into the tyrant section, but it's not like he's making the humans or machines suffer for it, he's just following orders to not bring the people back home for their safety. In fairness, they have all they need on the Axiom, but I guess The Croods beat me to the punch, "That wasn't living, that's just not dying!". IDK.
I'm curious how you would classify other Disney villains. The Horned King (The Black Cauldron). Cruella DeVille (101 Dalmatians). Madam Medusa (The Rescuers). Rattigan (The Great Mouse Detective). Stromboli (Pinnochio). Captain Hook (Peter Pan). The Queen of Hearts (Alice in Wonderland). Others whose names escape me at the moment (Big Hero 6, The Aristocats, and Tarzan). I'd love to see you do a follow-up video to cover more of the Disney big bads. Great video!
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The law in Aladdin wasn't obsolete. Neither the sultan nor the princess wants see the princess marry a man of lower status. She is not going to marry down.
That technically means Thanos is a Disney Villain too. He should wish upon a star, oh wait. He don't have to, he just needs to wave his finger or something.
ScreenPrism
The narrator has a beautiful voice. I love listening to her speak.
I'm about to unsubscribe. Again. I miss when you guys had quality content. 😐
Hey, can you guys please not use the word "gypsy"? It's a slur used against Romani people, on par with calling a black person the n word
What I always liked about Disney Villains was how charismatic they usually are.
Most of them are super fancy, well-spoken, eloquent, dramatic, etc
enyacoladas isn't Prince Hans a Tyrant.
Michael Brent huh? Isn't Prince Hans a good example of what I meant by a charismatic villain?
Unless, you meant the tyrant vs outcast type of villain. To which, I say huh???? Cos I didn't say anything about that
My favorite villain is mal and maleficent
A hero needs a worthy villian.
Part of a good villain is to be able to gain followers or manipulate the protagonist. Scar is one of my favorite examples with this because he is so obviously Hitler and look what he did! He rallied a whole country to commit genocide and go to war against most of the world all in the name of making Germany great again.... Oh shit that sounds eerily familiar.
In defense of King Triton, what parent would let their teenage daughter run off with a guy that she couldn't possibly even know? Dude didn't even know her name.
yeah Triton as a father only tried to protect Ariel. would have probably been easier if her mother would been around to calm Triton. "just let it be, its gonna be two weeks and shes over this phase."
I understand and sympathize with where Triton was coming from in wanting to keep his daughter safe, but I don't have to agree with his methods. He was very closed minded towards the human world (not without a good enough reason, ill give him that), and he completely rejected that side of his daughter because of that. How did he go about trying to 'protect' her? By constantly yelling at her and ignoring anything she had to say, and oh yeah DESTROYING all of her favorite possessions in a fit of rage right in front of her while she begged him to stop (can somebody please tell me how that's ok?). There's worrying about your child's safety, and there's using your worries as an excuse to be an obnoxious jerk. With that said I do like Triton's character because despite not seeing eye to eye, despite both of them being quite stubborn, and despite the fact that she found happiness among the very humans he wanted her to stay away from, you know that he still loves Ariel just wants her to be happy. And she still loves him too. Also, Ariel wanted be a part of the human world before she even met Eric; seeing Eric was what finally convinced her to try interacting with humans.
Maya Ogbodo I never said that he wasn't an asshole.
jessie sargent True you didn't say that. Lol I guess I read too much into your comment 😅
I think the reason why he was close minded towards humans was because 1. Pirates killed his wife, Queen Athena on the day his daughters, him, the queen and a few of the merfolks were outside, playing along to musical instruments. (3rd movie, the one with a purple wig wearing nanny) Because of that accident, he hated music for Queen Athena was killed when she was trying to get their music box. At the end of the movie, he gained back his lovel for music but not about being fond with humans. These are my mere thoughts.
Dont forget the 4th type of villain, "comical" which is a character who wants someone to take that villain category seriously, but we The audience who we see them as hilarious, like Captain Hook or Yzma for example.
You could categorize both villains though. Captain Hook is a tyrant outcast who uses his power of being Captain of a pirate crew to try and get rid of Peter Pan, who is essentially the prince of Neverland. Kind of similar to Shan Yu. Yzma was a Tyrant who was outcasted by the Prince because she wanted to become queen for her benefit. Throughout the movie, Kuzco learns to be selfless while Yzma's motive stays the same.
courage1 don't forget Hades :D
You could probably make loads of categories if you really wanted, but these 2 seems very overarching overall. What you're talking about would be considered sub-categories in comparison.
Hades! I just love that guy! 🤣
also mother gothel a bit. although her humor is very mean spirited and only further elaborates how evil she is, her jokes are kind of funny.
Jafar was the best disney villain. He wanted power and he was attacking it from multiple angles: trying to marry Jasmine, controlling the Sultan's guards, controlling the Sultan himself, and if none of that works just getting a genie to wish him the power. He even had secret passage ways in the castle that the Sultan himself didn't know about. At the end he wasn't defeated by a minion (like say Scar), but instead was defeated by the protagonist outsmarting him, losing to his own lust for more power. A true masterpiece villain
I think that Frollo was better. He was a man of God, thinking that he was doing God's work, and therefore justified himself to do all of the terrible things he did, believing he was above the "common vulgar weak licentious crowd".
Then, after doing what most of us would think as rather trivial, loving another without recieving that love back, he turns his back on his beliefs, instead twisting them into his own perverted portrayals.
I mean, in a single song he succumbs to 4/5 of the 7 deadly sins of man.
He wants a girl, he'll kill her if she doesn't take him, believes himself above others, wants Maria to strike her down and ends up envying those who can do what they want without fear of being smited.
If you were to watch a variant of a live-action Hellfire, look at Jonathan Young's characterisation of Frollo. So unsettling yet you pity him for being so... human.
NickDaGamer1998, yeah but honestly how the duck did Disney allow Frollo and was like kids are going to love this mature movie...
I think Shan Yu was if he wasnt stopped in the mountains he would have slaughtered all of china
@@NickDaGamer1998 its so funny to see how gluttony and sloth are the least harmful sins
Fair points but I’d say the sure charisma of the villain from princess and the frog makes him the best
The real two types of villains:
1) Ones who have motivations that, while we do not agree with them, we can kind of understand and perhaps even sympathize with
2) Ones who want coats made out of puppies
Kats Sutcliff I wouldn't mind having a puppy coat.
oh yeah, cruella is the darkest disney villain.
Kats Sutcliff
XD too fucking true.
That call out though😂😂😂
MrAnimepredator her and man who shot Bambi’s mom
The funny thing is that Shan Yu had zero issues with Mulan joining the army. The villain was nicer than 90% of the other characters.
Not really, because he thought he was a man, just like everyone else in the army
yeah much nicer
Safe for him burning down villages of innocents and killing women and children :p
@@balazsszucs7055 When he saw Mulan as "just a woman" before she put her hair up, he considered her to be a civilian, just like the crowd below. The moment she made him recognize her, she became "arch-nemesis" that he prioritized over even getting the emperor to submit. This was personal. Her gender didn't mean anything to him, she had proven herself a greater threat than all the armies of China.
@@bluesbest1 That's because women were expected to learn to fight/know how to fight too in Shan Yu's society so that's why it wasn't a surprise to him. That, and she had already proved herself to him and he wanted revenge.
The little girl will be missing her doll....
There's actually a third, more recent Disney Villain category: the Backstabber. A villain whom is neither a tyrant nor outcast, but rather presents themselves first as a friend and ally to the hero, someone in a position which they should be trusted, only to later drop the facade, reveal their true motives and turn against the hero when it has become most convenient for them to.
I'd give examples, but these are all recent movies.
You're right, frozen, big hero 6, zootopia....what else is there 🤔
I feel as if I could argue differently to that, as a backstabber could also fit into the tyrant category. They lay within the confines of a society, and may or may not have some modicum of power through their trustworthiness. And they abuse that power when they take advantage of the hero through betrayal.
Tartubeman +
That actually falls more into the Tyrant category, in the sense rhat they’re in trust worthy position for anyone, but they’re looking for their own gain rather than helping others.
If you take Frozen for example, you can easily compare it to The Little Mermaid. Anna is Ariel, who trusts in Ursula to get what she wants. Elsa is her father, who looks after Ariel’s well being but comes out as unfair because most things that Ariel wants to do can get her into trouble. And that prince, that I think that’s the villain you’re referring to, is Ursula, that tries to come out as a helping hand for Ariel to gwr what she wants, but in reality couldn’t care less and is just looking for its own gain.
Zamboozle Yeah, I agree. In all of those cases the hero is betrayed by someone with a level of power. Hans is empowered as regent when Anna leaves, thus giving him power over her, Dr Callahan is a teacher, thus giving him power over his students Hiro and Tadashi, and Mayor Bellwether is, well, mayor once Lionheart is arrested, while Judy and Nick and just citizens.
You should do a video essay on the hunchback of Norte dame!!! I’d love to hear your analysis on it! I think it’s one of the most complex films Disney has ever made!
tamandeggs omg AGREED
YES!!!!! Pleaseeeeeeee.
I second this! So many to tackle from it!
Lindsay Ellis has a marvelous one, if you haven’t seen hers yet. She also has one on Hercules, one on Pocahontas, a short one on Beauty and the Beast’s “Stockholm Syndrome”, and one on Saving Mr. Banks. She is brilliant.
A bit more critical and a little more crude in her humor than these gals, but her videos are definitely worth the watch.
Shut Up, Sprinkles! Oooh! I have seen most of her videos already ☺️ she is brilliant indeed! But I’d like to see screenprism’s take on this 😊
Woah... King Candy was a tyrant, while in reality, he was Turbo, an outcast.
mind... blown
Honestly, when i first saw what she said, I was like “Isn’t he a tyrant and ralph an outcast?”
@@jdk3096 The villainous outcast is generally ceaseless in their pursuit to become a tyrant.
Mother Gothel is the most underrated Disney villains of all time
I've read somewhere that Mother Gothel, when she's being nice to Rapunzel, calls her 'Flower' and only touches her affectionately when she's touching her hair or kissing her hair. She's only showing her affection to the power of the flower within Rapunzel, rather than Rapunzel herself. Now, knowing this, go back and watch Tangled and the creepiness factor doubles. This was raised after someone, somewhere on the internet suggested that Mother Gothel must have loved Rapunzel somewhat because she had been caring for her all this time as her 'mother', but it's clearly not true when you see her going out of her way to only touch her hair and not kiss her on her forehead.
Definitely the best since Yzma but I still thought she was lacking a certain something.
Gothel always struck me as a bit bi-polar. She goes from freaking Rapunzel out to belittling her to being somewhat affectionate all in the space of a few minutes. That said, she's definitely among the most cunning an manipulative. I would actually love to see a short film on her origins, because they could be quite interesting. Her line about how the world is dark and selfish and cruel doesn't sound like just another horror story she's feeding Rapunzel. It sounds very personal, and makes me think the writers could give her a really good and deep backstory if they tried. As to whether or not she loves Rapunzel, I think that *she* actually does think she loves Rapunzel, but it's obvious what she really loves is the flower.
Willie Oelkers Maybe Cassandra from Tangled the Series is her daughter. She named all sorts of things in her song, poison ivy, quick sand and the plague. Could she have been alive and survived all those by the magical golden flower. In her life time she had a daughter about the same time as the king and queen had Rapunzel. However when Mother Gothel realised the magic was in the child. She switched her own daughter for the princess. 18 years training with the guards and 18 years trapped in a tower until the girls meet and become best friends. Cassandra was adopted and didn't know her mum, that's why she didn't recognise the tower. Gothel and Cassandra lived had no home, Gothel sold the fancy palace clothes on Rapunzel to build the tower. That's my theory
In my opinion, Frollo is the most underrated one.
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts about more recent Disney films with less obvious villains. Moana, for example, arguably doesn’t have a villain at all, and although there is an antagonizing force it’s less governed by morality. And even though Frozen has a villain, he’s arguably not what the main character has to overcome in order to restore balance. Interestingly enough I think both films have heroines who need to both accept responsibility and embrace their individuality. Hopefully a sign that Disney writing is becoming more nuanced and sophisticated!
I agree about Moana, the antagonizing force seems to be more a social fear of leaving the island due to her father losing a friend. This paints Moana's father as sort of the "soft antagonist" like Ariel's father because he won't accept his daughter's calling. Moana is of the first type (royal status, social responsibility) and second type (suppressed individuality). There isn't really a central villain, just challenges she must face to find her destiny.
The most recent Disney films deal with villains that operate in the grey area or are mistaken for allies in the beginning of the film. Like you said, Moana doesn't necessarily have a villain like the films in the video show. I think the reason for this evolution in villains is for a few reasons. 1. It is becoming a cliché. Having a villain that is so obviously a villain isn't too interesting and you can only do so many movies around that. 2. You can't write very complex stories with black and white villains/heroes. 3. Life deals in the grey areas. It's more relatable to have a villain whose motives aren't 100% evil.
Wreck-It Ralph was the last Disney movie that had a obvious villain motive. That was 2012.
"Hopefully a sign that Disney writing is becoming more nuanced and sophisticated!"
That is one of the biggest lies I've read in a long while. Moana aside, which was a movie that didn't have and didn't need a villain, the past 4 movies felt into a mind numbingly annoying and repetitive formula.
Hans is not a grey area at all. He's a scheming asshole who pretends to be nice and misunderstood (and because Disney was so lazy that they made him a villain at the last minute). He would basically fall into the "Outcast Villain" category of this video.
Professor Callagahan/Yokai is basically a poorman Mr Freeze, with none of the drama and profoundity of the real thing.
Bellwether is Hans 2.0, but somehow even shallower and more ill conceived, just fit with Zootopia's nauseatingly liberal progressive propaganda.
What all these movies have is a fish out of water protagonist. Frozen and Zootopia have "strong and empowered" girls with high expectations that are faced with "hard reality", BH6 is just a very dumbed down cautionary tale about great power comes with great responsibilities. But in the end, all are so shallow, all are so obsessed with trying to be not like the past movies, they just come off as pretentious, shallow and incredibly preachy.
"You can't marry a man you've just met"
No shit Sherlock. You told us that 10 years ago in Enchanted.
"Life isn't like in fairytales, and learn to accept diversity"
The Hunchback of Notre Dame did both themes BILLIONS times better than this preachy, leftist propaganda furry wet dream of a film.
Disney movies have become more preachy, more fucking formulaic, more politically correct and more trying too hard to be self aware. The exact opposite of what you claim.
Inside Out was a good example of a disney/pixar without a villain at all. The conflict is strictly just circumstantial, its about how bad things just happen sometimes and its no ones fault. Maybe there's a message there about the danger of repression, but the girls' parents and Joy were misguided and without bad intentions when they encouraged her to repress her negative emotions.
And that's why Inside Out is my favorite Pixar film.
I think at first in older movies has the villains represent internal conflict but in recent films it has dropped that for a less hidden stories more pointed to the internal struggles which i like more
This is one of the best videos about Disney characters mainly the villains.
Praising this channel makes me feel like the 758,000th guy to hit on Scarlett Johansson.
sifat shams I'm sure she still appreciates it though :)
I wish
666th Like.
As long as you don't do it with disrespect.
@LM3ALLEM go to an eye center
There are two types of Disney villains: British and British.
But Frollo is French?
Gabriele Genota but he stil has an British accent
@Moon Lover What?
bouncyshak The Queen Of Rolling Heads ain't British
Gaston is French, too
Disney and Pixar...
The only companies to make a grasshopper, a stuffed animal, a steering wheel, and a 90’s racer the villains of a movie
Ummm... In Child's Play you got Chucky the doll and in Christine you got this devilish red car. And there are some very weird other horror movies where the villains are crazy objects like a rolling tire of a car, a bunch of rabbits and even a condom...
What about that film where pigs on some farm turn into natzee?
@@doktorkrysa1650 animal farm
@Minty Fresh Wall-E
@@rushalias8511
Pixar made a film inspired by animal farm?
There's 3 type of villains
1: the ones who have a valid and understandable reason of doing It
2: the ones who are evil because yes
3: and the ones who are known as twist villains...
2 = Lady Tremaine.
Your conclusion of being true to yourself and being a responsible made me think of what Disney movie was able to achieve that, but I cannot help but think of the film how to train your dragon 1&2, which is not Disney ironically. the villains aren’t exactly clear-cut with the outcast and tyrant dynamic (maybe mostly outcast), but Hiccup in the past two films first had to accept who he really was before he had to accept the responsibilities of becoming a chief to his community. And he learned that he could be his own version of a leader without compromising who he really is. I think you should do a video essay on that too! :)
tamandeggs +
Like The Little Mermaid, Hiccup's father was in the soft tyrant role while the dragons and Hiccup were outcasts. The real villain was the dragons own true tyrant. But they're not Disney movies ;) I would love to see them do videos on that series , especially with the third on its way!
Chatnoir 77888 chill your corrections, guys I’m aware. “Which is not Disney ironically”. Reread what I said pls
Coco did this. But I think they would count as Pixar.
I think Elsa from Frozen captures both the "being true to yourself" and "being responsible." After her parent's death, Elsa was groomed into being the next ruler of Arendelle, but at the time, she struggled to hide her ice powers, a vital part of herself. Once she learned to 'let it go' (I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself), and became more comfortable with using her powers to help her sister and defeat the villain, she was able to come back to her kingdom as a more confident queen.
Another good reason why Mulan is my favourite. Because I didn’t already identify with her enough. That was a really cool look at the subject.
Evalice Hikari she's my favorite too! :)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Mulan did that to save her father, not because she wanted to challenge gender roles
Jum Jum so? What does that have to do with anything?
Oh nvm, just thought that's the thing you took, since it was what the video says about her
Jum Jum obviously she did that for her father, but the message of the film is more than that. Mulan already didn’t fit in with other women around her. She was outspoken and openly intelligent and thoughtful instead of just trying to be a good bride. She didn’t care about the social standards. Even though she joined the army to protect her father, she stayed to prove herself. They were going to send her home, she wouldn’t have had to fight in the war, but she stayed.
Hmm... One quick thought: In the case of characters like Scar: Doesn't he technically count as BOTH?
I mean, he's an outcast at the beginning of the movie, but he's a tyrant from Simba leaving the pridelands to his death... As both he's doing the same sort of thing for the hyenas: using THEM as his power: at first as convincing them that he's "Just like them".
Heck, Simba's both a chosen one with a grand fate, and AFTERWARDS is an OUTCAST, until Nala and Rafiki come and get him to go back- and both are akin to Scar's role at the same time points.
In the end, however, Simba embraces the "chosen ones" fate, and Scar torn apart by the "fellow" outcasts he betrayed as a tyrant.
But Scar isn't really an "outcast". He's just butthurt because his brother, the king, went and had a son, which bumped Scar from being next in line for the throne. He chose not to go to the ceremony; if he's "outcast", it's a position he put himself in - likely to the bafflement of the other lions. Of course, he probably does see himself that way, in his twisted mind, which is why he was able to so easily con the Hyaenas into thinking he was "one of them" in spirit. Basically, Scar is, and was, always the Tyrant .... we just meet him as the wanna-be Tyrant, who was close to gaining legitimate power before Simba was born.
@@LaikaLycanthrope He's an outcast, though. Whether he chose it himself or not doesn't really change that.
Scar was responsible for a lot of childhood trauma.
frollo beats him to me. while scar killed mufasa, frollo burnt people alive to extract information, he also is creepy, obsessed with esmeralda and wages war on defenseless people because he despises their style of life. if any villain comes close to portraying any real dictator - it's frollo.
julijakeit to be its forever scar, I have only seen Disney classics so and even if I saw the movie with frollo in it I would still pick scar for really vaild and accurate reasons
julijakeit I haven’t seen The Hunchback of Notre Dame, and I’m sure Frollo’s great, but I’m gonna defend Scar a little bit.
Now, lots of Disney villains have gaining power as their primary motivation (Jafar, Ursula, Yzma, etc.), but the thing about Scar that gets to me personally is how he’s willing to murder his own family to get it. Mufasa was his BROTHER, and while the two of them butted heads a lot, Mufasa still probably cared about and trusted Scar to some extent. Also, if you look at Simba’s early interactions with Scar, the little guy obviously loves him as an uncle.
So what does Scar do? He looks right into his brother’s eyes as he sends him to his death, then takes his tearful and mourning nephew (a CHILD) and instills a sense of blame and guilt in him over said death (before immediately ordering his minions to kill Simba anyway). That is just plain SADISTIC.
There’s also the part where he convinces a downtrodden underclass (the hyenas) to help him in his coup by convincing them he has their best interests at heart, when in reality, he’s only concerned for himself (seen by the fact that he was willing to blame them for everything when shit hit the fan). Scar promised the hyenas that they’d never go hungry again if they stuck by him, so in their eyes, they must have seen him as a kind of hero. He was their Lenin, offering them an equal place in a society that mistreated them. Of course, once Scar actually gained power, he proved to be more of a Stalin in that his leadership decisions ended up driving the Pride Lands into the ground (much like how Stalin’s policies resulted in widespread famine that killed millions). “Be Prepared” also makes sure to ape Nazi imagery just for good measure, and it’s damn effective.
So yeah, that’s why I think Scar belongs in the upper echelon of Disney animated villains.
So was Gothel, because she is a literal child abuser...
Yeah, but I still love him
There are two types of Disney Villians.
Top Tier: Judge Claude Frollo
Second Tier: Everyone else.
Alchemist1330 Sorry, hit by accident while scrolling.
Alchemist1330 Agreed.
Third Tier: Twist Villains
YES!!
He's the most evil villian but not the best imo. I saw the movie when I was young and didn't understand any of it lol, until now. Definitely for a mature audience. Btw I haven't seen the whole movie cos its pretty boring.
My categories are
- actual reason for their motives
And
- “what’s your damage? What did [protag] do to you?”
like this video but why is Wreck it Ralph in the first category, both Valenope and Ralph are outcasts in their own society; they are trying to express or find out who they are while rebelling against King Candy who unlike say Scar is a tryant from the beginning of the movie's timeline. Both Ralph and Vanelope's societies are also quite oppressive and they decide to go against the grain, Ralph by trying to be good despite being evil and Vanelope by racing despite being cast as the glitch.
Rebecca Kaff I'd say this is a The Little Mermaid/Mulan case, with the conflict being both the protagonists feeling out of their society and at the same time having a role they should fill for it's sake. The idea of King Candy always being a tyrant wouldn't really match with this since he (as Turbo) used to be a glitch from an unpopular game, roaming around and looking for a game (the games being universes/societies). He played (no pun indeeded) his way into the game, manipulating it so he would become king, leaving Vanellope as the outcast, who used to be the ruler and, in a way, must reclaim what is rightfully hers.
I'll be honest, I believe that Wreck-It-Ralph's Turbo/King Candy truly straddles the line between outcast and tyrannical villain. Turbo is the outsider who shows what happens when you game-hop (see, "going Turbo"), and King Candy is the Tyrant that takes over Sugar Rush and enforces an oppressive regime. And I believe that because we have two different heroes, two different villian are needed. Ralph needs to go back to his world to take care of his important responsibilities ("It may not be as fancy as being president, but it’s my duty, and it’s a big duty"). And to save Sugar Rush From Both King Candy and the ravages of the CyBugs, Vanellope needs to be herself.
Because this is a bad dichotomy.
Wreck it Ralph can actually be both because king candy is both a tyrant and an outcast and Ralph can be seen as the one seeing his responsibility and Vanellope is the “secret” royalty or racer
Scar: “I’m surrounded by idiots...”
Me: “I feel ya man....”
Kaleela Edwards haha, my thoughts every day.......when I’m looking in three sided mirror..in an empty room O-O
Two types of disney villains:
1.the villain that dies by falling
2.the villain that dies in ofher ways or doesnt die at all
These villains are have what made disney great, but I've often like the villains who have justifiable reasons and believe they are doing the right thing (example Professor Callahan in Big Hero 6)
Disney example Minister Frollo
Tor A. Part I find Claude Frollo to be such a wonderful character. He is a man of the clergy, trained to suppress his own carnal desires in order to be able to become closer to God, and lead others to Him. But, he finds himself tempted by a woman and cannot reconcile the desires, long suppressed, of the flesh, and the duty he has lived his life for. I honestly can't help but feel his pain.
Yes, he kept Quasimodo imprisoned, but as we see during the festival scene, for good reason. The society would not accept him and instead would hate and fear him as a demon. He could have been more open with Quasimodo as to why he was kept inside, but that is a flaw more related to his highly legalistic attitude, another part of him I understand.
I think Frollo is a tragic villain. He committed evil acts not out of pure hatred, but because he couldn't allow himself to feel anything. The conflict drove him insane.
@@joshuafischer684 Frollo is very one-dimensional compared to original novel, though.
Callahan... not really. He literally sets a school on fire for no good reason.
William Turner SPOILERS Justifiable? No. Sympathetic? Yes. My heart goes out to him, but he ultimately became the thing he hated; a person who caused the death of the innocent loved one of someone else (even though his daughter turned up alive). He did literally kill Tadashi; its essentially third degree murder
What about Hercules? Is Hades a combo as well?
Hieronymus di Colonna I’d think hades would be a combo as well. Hades has traits of the tyrant, because he is ruler of the underworld. He controls the monsters he sends Hercules’ way and even has the ability to free the titans from their prison. He also has traits of the outcast villain in that he isn’t satisfied in his place as only ruling the underworld and seeks to overthrown Zeus his brother, similar to Scar and Mufasa.
Loki The Trickster God
Yes!
Anonymous Name
Exactly what I'd thought when I read OP's comment, Hades is quite a lot like Scar!
Hieronymus di Colonna what about bambi
Hades is an "outcast." Herc needs to become a "true hero" hence the royal destiny, while Hades has been confined to the underworld by the other gods.
this is why the conflict in frozen doesnt really work. it would have if elsa had been the villain but when hans got into the mix it strives away from this theory. (although you can say that frozen applies to the exception rule that is that hans is an outcast-tyrant, when anna and elsa are the outsiders with a chosen one esque destiny)
hapichapi yea I would say Hans is the tyrant and Elsa is the chosen one. Anna is just there to encourage her along her path, similarly to Nala with Simba.
hapichapi - this is exactly why I didn't enjoy Frozen very much as well as most new Disney movies. There is something classic about an obvious struggle between good vs evil I expect in Disney movies. The movies this video talks about shows that sort of conflict works. Elsa was never a "villian" nor did anyone really go against her. It was more a a misunderstanding. Hans was a weak villian and I couldn't really care about his motivations. It annoyed me greatly when people kept hailing that movie as the greatest Disney movie. It is definitely not that great compared to say, The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
hapichapi
The conflict is definitely more complex.
As a queen Elsa's A Chosen One, as her magic makes her an Outsider in her own land, the reaction of the little one points this out.
As a spare, who was ignorant of her sister's powers Anna is an Outsider in the royal court, as the one with the truest of family love she's A Chosen One, who prevailed over Hans the petty spare who lied about love.
@aangita Yeah, I hated Hans most besides the absolutely stupid parents. How It Should Have Ended says everything about their moronic choices.
Hans turning out to be "the" villain added absolutely nothing to the film. The end with him (iirc?) taking a shot at Elsa and Anna blocking it could have just as easily been one of their subjects trying to do the right thing and defeat the "villain". Death from misunderstanding rather than tyrannical ambition would've been more poetic. Plus Anna realizing she and Hans don't know each other that well and she quite likes the other guy without Hans being deceptive would've been good too...
Someone did a good breakdown of this in another comment. It seem like it's a very Little Mermaid kind of set-up, with Anna being the chosen one aka Ariel, Elsa being the 'fake villain' aka Ariel's father and Hans being the true villain who befriends the hero aka Ursula.
I would argue that Wreck it Ralph is actually an example of a tyrant villain. King Candy is a tyrant ruler and Venelope has to embrace what makes her different (her glitch)
There has to be an animated Disney film in which the villain actually wins. Who's with me??
Check out the 1943 Disney adaptation of "Chicken Little"
Avengers: Infinity War
On Gravity Falls Bill Cipher actually almost won.
*But he wasn't defeated. He will come back.*
They already did that: it's called Infinity War XD
@@karateparty100 *But it's not animated*
this channel is so awesome. you put so much effort in your video and they are really fun too watch
In some respects this reminds me of Brave. While we do sympathize/empathize with Merida in how she wants to live her life away from social expections and responsibilities, we see why Elinor finds an individual path over society's customs and laws a danger as well.
Brave is interesting in that it’s one of the only Pixar and Disney films where there is no clear villain.
I'd like to see an analysis how the notion of what is a "just world" and what is a corrupt, oppressive world have also changed with they history of disney movies, while the general outline of the outcast-king/queen dichotomy is still mostly the same.
Clayton from Tarzan is another underrated villain. He was quite scary. He had a Jafar quality but towards gorillas. He certainly fits the tyrant persona.
I can relate to the heros and the villains. I am a complex multifaceted character myself.
Brilliant video and analysis! Would love to see some thoughts on Harry Potter :)
I love how Jeremy Irons delivered Scar's line: "Ah'm surrounded by eeediots..."
This video analysis helped me with my book for creative writing class😊 thanks
Frollo is the best.
He has the best villain song, at least.
Nope he is not the best at all he sucks
Book!Frollo was way better as a villain
You forgot the third type: The Disney Twist Villain.
How to be evil:
Step 1. Call everyone a fool.
Step 2: Laugh like a Maniac
I just watched The Hunchback of Notre Dame again today and I LOVE IT SO MUCH. It deals with such serious, real issues like injustice, lust, religion, oppression, emotional abuse, etc. I'm so glad you haven't forgotten about that movie in this video, as it's often overlooked. Plus, Frollo is my favourite Disney villain just because he's so realistic; his struggles are relatable to some degree and real, he can't rely on magic and use that to abuse his power, AND Hellfire is an amazingly powerful villain song. Thank you for including this masterpiece of a movie!
For me the two types are
1: The kind that you sing along to the songs with (ex. Scar, the evil stepmother, ect)
2. The ones that make me want to throw my shoe at the screen (turbo, Gaston, etc)
Fun vid :) I love the stories that end with a transformation in heart for the villain as well as the hero. Drives home that all the characters in any story are just aspects of our own psyche.
Sometimes it is parental figures who take the villain role in these movies as they themselves learn to become better parents through the course of the movie with help of a trickster character. Mary Poppins and Peter Pan and even Moana fit the pattern of the parent becoming less controlling or narcissistic or fearful.
Not a Disney film, but one of the most impactful animated films I've seen is 'Song of the Sea.' I love how the Owl Witch parallels the real life Granny character's fear of and suppression of emotion, and then how she transforms as she just lets shit go.
agatha fry +
I think that there is also a third spot "The Unstoppable Villain", the Villains in Disney movies that are almost forces of nature and are the most feared, Examples like
•The Headless Horseman, from The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad
•Tyrannosaurus, from Fantasia
•Monstro, from Pinocchio
these villains you must overcome and defeat, or (in the cases of the Horseman and T-rex) DIE!!!
Tyrant Raptor Not Of Mention Hades, Lumpjaw, Or Chernobog!
“Man” in Bambi
What about Big Hero 6 and Zootopia? I guess they're like the expection where they a mix of both.
They're Pixar movies if I'm not wrong so..
DishaDharmraj Disney bought Pixar
DishaDharmraj so technically they’re Disney
@@insertusername4079 they might have been bought by Disney hit their brand is very different the story telling ect, so when thought they do come under Disney umbrella they're not Disney movies
And King Candy as an outcast villain? That's his origin story, sure, but he's king and abusing his power. He's definitely a tyrant.
Nico Bones Well, He Can Also Be A Backstabber Because He Was Also Revealed As Turbo!
Where’s Hades? I think he should have been in the ‘both’ category. One of my favorite villains!
Yey! Disney! And Disney princesses! And Disney story-telling! God, I love this channel
With the idea of the two categories make these villains even more one dimensional and that kind of diminishes who they are as villains. Some stories could be better off with villains that have more sides to them. Like a villain who does evil acts but whole heartedly believes their actions are good. Or better yet a villain who only became one because they were told they were. Elsa could’ve easily become a villain because she was feared.
There are 2 types of Disney villains
1) all the villains
2) hans 😫
One of my absolute favorites from you! I come back here often! It's weird how most of the comments here miss the point of your video but your thesis is fantastic!
Ever notice that some outcast villains psychologically or physically abuse the hero? Just look at Cinderella and Tangled! You could say the same about tyrants, mainly focusing on Claude Frollo's treatment of Quasimodo.
Is it just me who thinks wreak it Ralph's king candy is rather a tyrant then an outcast
He is a bit of both. Turbo was the hero of his own game, however as more advanced games came into the arcade, he became an outcast since no-one would play his game. This ultimately forced him to become a tyrant so he can stay relevant by attempting to take over other racing games.
@@jordanread5829 lol he was an egolomaniac not an outcast otherwise if he was just an outcast he would have no interest in hurting others
Hey you two! I love your channel to pieces and I love this video about Disney villains!
I think you two should do a follow up video regarding the recent trend of twist Disney villains, like in the Toy Story series, Frozen, and Coco. There’s aspects of outcast and tyrant villains in each instance, but I noticed that you primarily fixated on films made by Disney, rather than expanding outward to Pixar, and that Pixar doesn’t tend to follow these trends. I think this topic could be a good segway into those films, while using what you’ve brought up in this video as background basis.
All and all, I wish you both even greater success with this channel! Your work is quality and it’s great seeing female creators on TH-cam putting forth such compelling analysis. :)
They didn't include my favorite villain, Hades, but I think he probably fits the outcast category.
One issue though, Frolo in the books was a much kinder individual who cared for Quasimodo like his son, and even taught him sign language when he started going deaf due to the bells. He was benevolent in his deeds in the books, but that didn’t mean he always did the right thing.
Love your videos about Disney!!
Where would bellweather from Zootopia fall? She is kind of an outsider, but could she be called tyrannical as well?
I think she's a bit of both. She is part of the government system and eventually become mayor (tyrant), but before she became mayor, she was shown to be pushed around, overlooked, and underappreciated (outcast). So she went from tyrant-outcast to tyrant.
It's pretty consistently these Type 3 villains that populate most of the most intriguing and relatable Disney movies isn't it?
Well, look at the society around them. Is it a just society that isolates Bellwether's evil, or is it an unjust society that the hero needs to make changes in?
It's a pretty species-ist world, and Judy is a square peg in a round hole. I'd say this looks like a tyrant movie.
Backstabber
Great video! I especially loved how you summarized Mulan, so many people see the rebellious side and misunderstand her goals. I love her character for her selfless desire to help her family both physically and socially. She's more than a bra burner, as fun as her genderswap storyline is, it's just a means to an end. It's why I think she's so relatable, that mix of rebel and chosen one.
I actually see Turbo as a combination of the tyrant and the outcast villain. On the one hand, he changes the code of Vanellope's game in order to steal her throne and cast her out as a glitch, and poisons her kingdom. On the other hand, we see Ralph living in a world that already had a questionable value system. As the scripted bad guy, Ralph is an essential part of his game. Without him, there is no game. However, he never gets any appreciation or respect for the job he does. He is an outcast by definition, while Vanellope is a hero with a destiny and responsibility. That being said, Turbo had to have the qualities of both the tyrannical and the outcast villain.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
exactly
I feel like the Lion King is more about the trauma as to why Simba won’t return. He had to *see* the death of his father, and in the same event got told by the scary uncle who /caused/ said event that he should never come back. He is probably pretty traumatized by that and doesn’t want to come back because he fears the place he grew up, the place his father died. He has to be convinced by Nala to come back because he has found a purpose and a way to move past his childhood trauma with Timone and Pumba, along with their phrase Hakuna Matata. To go back means confronting what he has refused to all these years.
The only thing I would disagree with is that most people feel like Ariel or Mulan. To my mind, most people see themselves as Esmeralda or Pocahontas because they see society as corrupt and tyrannical. At least within my own millennial age group, you’d be hard pressed to find someone like me who says “the system is fine, it’s the few rotten apples that spoil the bunch.”
Its not about their perception of society. Objectively, society is both bad and good and so naturally people fall into the category of being antagonized by both exiled and tryannical forces.
Astral Cosmos Celestial the Third Certainly. I’m simply referring to many young people’s *perception* as you pointed out.
Generations tend to go in cycles. They get more conservative, then more liberal, then more conservative, etc. For example, the 1950s was a period of hyper-conformity and conservativism. The country had just seen two wars (WWII and Korea) and wanted some normalcy. Younger generations grew weary of the new "don't rock the boat", which led to beatniks and, later, hippies. This grew as more people began to view the Vietnam War as an entirely pointless waste of lives and resources.
Something similar happened fairly recently. People learned the Iraq War was started under intentionally false pretenses (Saddam's totally making nukes, guys). This was followed by the greatest economic crash since the Great Depression, which made Millennials disillusioned. The government lies, the military goes along with the lies, and the corporations will get away with destroying the economy because they gave "contributions" (legalized bribes) to the right politicians.
a lot of times it IS a few people who ruin things for everyone. im a millennial too but yea many people are just too stupid or shallow or busy to do anything but it is the rotten apples that take advantage of it and manipulate others so easily much of the time.
That's one of your finest works, together with the Beauty&Beast-analysis!! Thanks you so much for your valuable takes!!
My favorite villain from Disney comes from *Treasure Planet*
Is the only villain who became the parental figure of the protagonist.
I see you're an individual of good taste. :D
frollo: am i a joke to you
Dude, I didn't realize there a science behind these movies.
Also, I'm writing a book, and I realized that its plot fits right into the "villainous outcast and the chosen hero" storyline exactly! And I didn't even realize it!!!
without giving too many spoilers about Avengers Infinity Wars; Thanos can be seen as an Chosen One Disney Hero; one that put the need of the Universe before his own desires and wishes, and the commentary reveals that he is also a bit of the Outcast, based on his past of growing deformed on his planet of Titan.
I've always wondered why I like some Disney characters more than others, and now I know! I have always felt more like an outcast, a person that fights unjust societal structures, so I feel more identified with those heroes. I also always had a lot more interest in stories of marginalized/opressed people and their fates, than those involving royalty.
I'd be careful about how you word the lesson from Princess and the Frog. From the way you said it, it sounds like she had to chose love over her ambitions, which isn't what I took away from the movie at all because she still gets her restaurant and works hard to do it. I think the lesson is more that if you only focus on one thing or overwork yourself, you're bound to lose sight of things that maybe just as important. In Tiana's case, working so hard to get the restaurant that she ignores friends, having good experiences with others, and potential lovers was detrimental to having meaningful bonds with others and her goal could become hollow, once achieved. No one in the movie that was supporting her EVER said that she should give up her dream and ambitions (which is what I heard from your meaning of the story) but instead, take a step back and realize that there's more to life than JUST getting her restaurant. Her friends from the beginning of the movie never tell her to stop, only to take a night off. Her mother is probably one of her biggest supporters of getting the restaurant, but she also wants Tiana to be happy with another person (and grandkids). Hell, Facilier would have given her the restaurant with a snap of his fingers because he knew that she was THAT ambitious, but she had learned the difference between need and want. As must as we may dislike it, humans are social creatures, even the most introverted introverts require SOME basic interaction with someone or something besides themselves, they go insane otherwise. Just saying, I'd be a little more careful with how you phrase TPatF's moral because your phrasing is more open to a more negative interpretation and I doubt that you meant to have one
That is a good point. Princess and the Frog is one of my favorite movies. It is more complicated than a typical Disney movie. I have seen other people misunderstand it. I think the theme can just be a work-life balance. I am not a huge fan of Disney villains. Facileir is the typical kind, and he is not too interesting. However an even better character to oppose Tiana is Naveen. He is not a villain per es. He is just more fun loving than she is. The two form a great foil. Their minor clashes and conflicts are far more interesting and nuanced. They eventually find a nice middle ground. Heck Mary Poppins has the same theme, and it does fine without a big bad. The foil in that movie is Mary Poppins and George Banks. Thier conflict is interesting enough to carry the whole story. It is like Princess in the frog, but the Female protagonist has her role reversed. The closest thing that the story has to a villain is the bank leaders. Even then they don't show up much, and they work just like bankers in real life. They even point out the bank being good for funding the inferstructure of society. This is nuanced. One has got to wonder where these benefits are worth George Banks neglecting his family the way he does. George Banks is a banker, and his bosses are more extreme than he is. Bert is like Mary Poppins but more extreme. He is not stern or strict at all. He's so wacky, goofy and fun. It wierd in hindsight that the same actor, Dick Van Dyke, played both extremes in the same movie. That is a stark foil indeed.
This was such a great analysis of the villain/hero relationship and how it relates to the overall lesson.
King Triton wasn't exactly a bad guy, but more like the Beast : just watch at the climax when he sacrifices himself only to save his daughter from the evil pact she deliberately signed like a fool selfish child, totally unaware of any responsibility matters, with a twisted witch such as Ursula...
This is such a complex and nuanced thing, and it was really awesome to see you guys break it down. Also, Ariel and Mulan were pretty much my favorite characters/movies as a kid, and it's because of the combination and nuance- between fighting to be yourself outside of rigid societal roles, but that battle is separate from fighting selfish, evil people - even when they're outsiders like us. I think Belle has some similar conflicts, between her society - of which Gaston is a symptom and a tyrant - and her initial conflicts with the selfish Beast. But she fights him with kindness, he gets growth and redemption, and they fight the tyrant.
I'm rambling now, but this was awesome, loved it! Very useful for thinking about personal struggles, as well as for writing stories and conflicts.
Well, time for another Disney marathon; thanks, ScreenPrism! (:
The recent Disney movies like Raya and the Last Dragon and Encanto don't have "pure villains" who either die the traditional Disney villain death by falling or are humiliated anymore which is both refreshing and interesting bc it shows Disney movies don't need to have antagonists in order to create conflict and plot. They have reformed villains now. Hell, they did this with Inside Out and Inside Out is the first Pixar movie to not have a villain. They were originally going to have a villain named Gloom but Gloom's characterization was ableist and demonizes people who have depression which is why they decided to not have a villain.
Namaari and her mother in Raya and the Last Dragon are the closest characters to be villains and they redeemed themselves in the end.
The character who is closest to a villain in Encanto is Alma, the grandmother, who was borderline emotionally abusive towards Mirabel and she changed near the end after realizing it is her fault that the magic disappeared and not Mirabel's.
True
4:47 she wouldn't have cursed her if she just got invited
This is really amazing. This is a really great basis for young artists and writers to create their own heroes and villains for their own work.
Please make a Sense8 video, is an amazing tv show and it just ended. PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I love this! People always act like Disney movies are shallow but they have such valuable lessons ❤️
I’m curious about some of the older villains who may not have been either. I feel like Cruella De Vil, Madame Medusa, Clayton, and Edgar all fit in with society but through their own greed they conflict with heroes who they have power over. But this power does not extend to power over the larger community. And then you look at these characters who know who aren’t exactly trying to embrace their individuality but are simply trying to find themselves and achieve what they set out to achieve.
They are all tyrants in the sense that they try to force their will or image on others. While they do not have a large domain, they do rule whatever they can with an iron fist. While they operate on a smaller scale than the examples in the video, their methods and motivations remains largely the same.
Ursula is my most favorite Disney villain. Also I never noticed this common Disney trait, thank you for the lesson.
Anyone else think that the two types would be blatantly obvious, maniacal, "look at me I'm so eeevvviill" villains, and "twist" villains?
Definitely. There is either the obvious villain we see making evil plans throughout the story (such as Thanos or Scar), or the hidden ones that back-stab the hero halfway through (such as Prince Hans or Mayor Bellwether)
I love how this video doesn't just describe the purpose of the villains, but it also describes the hero's journey as well.
Great job, btw. :)
Weird choice, picturing Scar as an outsider. He was both outsider AND tyrant, for when Simba actually fought him Scar was king.
But the main course of the film is about Simba accepting his responsability as the righteous ruler after running away from it. I dare say Scar was mainly an outcast, but I agree with you about him having the tyrant traits after the later half of the movie.
I'm interested in stories in which the protagonist and the antagonist are equal in positions, "made of the same dough." As one wise wizard used to say, "Choice determines who we are."
I think that as much as Gastan symbolizes restrictive female roles and expectation so does King Triton. It isn't that Ariel thinks of her dad as the villian is that through his lack of willingness to communicate he shows he is villainous. He screams, destroys her treasures, and locks and controls not only Ariel but ALL of his daughters. He is the definition of tyranical, even by the standards of this video. He wants to keep things the same and is unwilling, to an explosive way (especially if you include the prequel), to keep them that way.
The fact that this behavior all this is glossed over, ignored, or rationalized as "for her own good" is more villainous than Ursla ever was. *This* behavior is the definition of the realistic toxic masculinity that has faced women for centuries. Yes, oppressive over masculine jerks are out there. But subtle oppression out of a twisted sense of love is much more common, ignored, and just as detrimental. I wouldn't call King Triton a "soft antagonist".
Lynette Floyd What I like about Triton or his role in "The little mermaid" is that he's maybe the first Disney parent who allows mixed feelings. Yes, he is a tyranic ruler but because he's afraid for his daughter and doesn't see another way to protect them. In the sequel it is explained that it's because he lost Arielle's mother. And that he wants to keep especially Arielle away from the human world because she reminds him so much of his wife. And I guess that's an important lesson to learn as a child, that they can have ambivalent feelings against other persons even your parents like pity, anger or fear in the same Moment. I like Triton's developement in the story.
Mara Yeah, that is all true. To me though, that's what makes King Triton (and his unwillingness to bend) is the true conflict Ariel has to overcome in the story and thus the *real* villian. In the end she does and so she triumphs.
Ursla in all actuality is a catalyst to that resolution. If not for Ariel and Eric having that adversary to show Triton he probably wouldn't have grown.
Lynette, that's very interesting analysis of the Triton. What humanizes him (no pun intended) is that we get to see he actually suspects he is wrong in treating Ariel like he does but his bigotry towards humans is so deeply embedded that it triggers his tyrannical side. I can't say that 'toxic masculinity' is the only responsible aspect in the movie as we get to experience the 'toxic femininity' in Ursula as well. It's more like comparing people with power but no accountability. A lot of entitled managers are like that - those managers, be it parents, corporation managers or government believe they are better just because they have the title 'manager' without having to earn the respect or discuss their decisions. "As long as you live under my roof" - how many times have we heard that from our parents? "As long as you work here" - how many times have we heard that from our managers? In the end, though, we see all main characters overcome their flaws.
TheRapper10000 See, the idea that a father goes out of his way to yell and destroy his daughters treasures and that is deemed in anyway "typical" dad behavior is kind of the problem. That shouldn't be typical father behavior. It's not normal and not okay.
The thing people forget about Triton is he's not just trying to protect some societal standard, he's trying to protect his daughters in a world that clearly has powerful beings who would, and did, take advantage of them. While I don't agree with all of his views or actions, I would argue that most of them are fueled by the desire to protect his daughters and the knowledge that there are dangerous people out there who would absolutely hurt them or take advantage of them.
Disney is the Queen of Villains: Jafar, Scar, Maleficent, Evil Queen, Lady Tremaine, Cruella De Vill, Ursula, Hades - so many legendary ones!
I wouldn't call Mulan's villain an outcast. He wasn't "rebelling" against anyone. He was a conquerer who was trying to invade another country. Purely tyrant.
shan yu was rejected by the country so he does have outcast traits especcially compared to frollo
Wow, great video. I thoroughly enjoyed watching this. So much information and a bit of backstory for these villains, it was just an all around awesome video. Thank you for sharing this with us. I never realized just how similar a lot of the Disney Villains are until I saw this video. They have a lot more in common than I would have ever thought. But yeah, again, I commend you on making such a great video and putting in so much information about these villains that most of us never knew. I really enjoyed watching this and again, thank you for making this video.
What about Yzma? What category would she fall into?
The awesome one
Tyrant.
Tyrant, then outcast, then both
Outcast because kuzco is the chosen one
Comic relief
Actually, Mulan's goal was to save her father. Her inner *desire* was to find her place in a world where she didn't seem to fit, but finding it is more along the lines of Cinderella's finding love while at the ball she wanted to attend for a fun night out. I forget how you said it, but basically it was a reward she deserved for actions she took not aiming to achieve the reward but other worthy goals, & earned it anyway.
I'd argue Wreck it Ralph was more of the outcast who accepts himself and the King was the tyrant that betrayed everyone.
These videos are always so well done and well thought-out. Great in-depth analysis!
you said that Ralph and Penelope had a "Larger Duty" lol X)
😂😂😂😂
Makes me wonder where Auto falls in Wall-E, he maybe falls into the tyrant section, but it's not like he's making the humans or machines suffer for it, he's just following orders to not bring the people back home for their safety. In fairness, they have all they need on the Axiom, but I guess The Croods beat me to the punch, "That wasn't living, that's just not dying!". IDK.
I'm not a Disney expert but anyone have noticed some movies that don't belong in thoses categories? Just curiosity
I'm curious how you would classify other Disney villains. The Horned King (The Black Cauldron). Cruella DeVille (101 Dalmatians). Madam Medusa (The Rescuers). Rattigan (The Great Mouse Detective). Stromboli (Pinnochio). Captain Hook (Peter Pan). The Queen of Hearts (Alice in Wonderland). Others whose names escape me at the moment (Big Hero 6, The Aristocats, and Tarzan). I'd love to see you do a follow-up video to cover more of the Disney big bads. Great video!
Do something about Sense8, please
I'm glad y'all are doing more Disney videos. Those are my favorite.