Very interesting about triggering the heat pump from the Eddi. I've not done that with mine. I used to simply divert solar excess to the immersion element until I realised that raising the water temperature during the day stopped the heat pump heating the water at night on cheap rate, which it was set to do, because it made the water already hot enough. Add to that if you are on Octopus Flux then you are much better off exporting at 20-30p/kWh than saving the overnight water heating with cheap rate divided by COP to keep the water hot. Heating from solar excess with the heat pump is better but it only saves that already cheap rate/COP overnight by shifting it to the day. I use the Eddi now as a timed top up for the Legionella cycle one a week if the heat pump can't quite get it up to 60°C along with its PT1000 to monitor temperature. Incidentally, if the 400L tank is already at 50°C it only takes 4.6kWh to raise the temperature up to 60°C so it's not a huge energy store. I'd be interested in what other uses for the Eddi there could be.
Looking at the equipment and pipework installed I suspect this is at least a £25,000 installation. In the real World how much electricity could be bought for this sort of sum? On my current usage.....17 years!!
Hello lads! A little thought for reflection having in a similar system... A negative side of this application can be excessive wear of the heat pump, aggravated by the fact of operation at higher water production temperatures. For this reason it is essential that there is an effective use of the hot water and that it is not heated for no reason... Otherwise the electric resistance is better, which despite having a lower efficiency, does not cost as much wear and tear as replacing the compressor of the heat pump. Another idea could be to accumulate heat in the building instead of in the boilers so that the production of hot water is at a low temperature and remains efficient; it would be necessary to install an intelligent thermoregulation system that increases the room temperature set points based on the use of the rooms, weather forecasts, time of day and photovoltaic production. 😉
Is Eddi still useful with a heat pump when you get 15p kWh on the export with Octopus? What settings would you do for Octopus Agile tariff for example?
Export @ 15p kWh or use the solar to heat the hot water? Is that the cheapest way to go about it if you can import at a cheaper rate and use the ASHP to heat the hot water
10:57 Confused why you are turning on the immersion? I thought the idea was the Heat Pump gives a COP value and powers the tank rather than the immersion heater? Or am I missing something?
Great video! Going to build a similar system at my farm, but I want to extract heat from the pig house in the summer and have a large centralized wood burner for heating in the winter. Im living in Norway so I require a lot of heat in the winter, so it is going to be really interesting to se if can power everything of solar and windmills.
Was just about to write that as well. First of it loses some energy into the room over time. And more importantly, depending how it's piped, hot and cold water mix in it. That requires the heatpump to produce hotter water then is actually going to the radiators.
Interesting video thanks for sharing. Wouldn't the best way be to turn on the immersion heater when there's not enough excess power to run the heat pump on, then when there is turn the heat pump on and if there's still excess after that then ramp up the immersion on top?
Fronius pv inverters have had the Solar API feature for quite a bit of time. This means it can connect via a local ethernet connection like a compatible heat pump and give the heat pump the information there is this enough excess power available and the heat pump can start producing heat if set in that way. This all without additional hardware or wiring.
Any quality inverter (Fronius, Kostal, Huawei, SMA, …) has a Modbus Interface. You can either use professional software & gateways or simply use ioBroker, Nodered or Homeassistant to switch some Shellys or show the energy status by switching a Hue bulb in traffic light colours.
The NIBE heat-pump has an optional feature to connect directly to the inverter and use excess energy to raise the temperature of the buffer/property and/or the hot-water cylinder to efficiently 'store excess' energy when it's available.
Very interesting. I’ve read stuff recently about sand batteries. The obvious advantage is the amount of heat you can store is far above what you can in a tank of hot water. What’s Jordan’s thoughts on heating a sand battery by DC from the solar array?
Great video. I left a comment with helpful information for anyone wanting to replicate this setup for their own house, highlighting that there is a feature limitation that means it isn't very useful for anyone with a non Libbi battery as the heat pump will be falsely triggered when loads like a kettle turn off. Something that can be configured using the Export delay for the immersion but doesn't apply to the relay in export mode. I can't find this comment any more, was it deleted? Surely this is important information for your viewers so they don't assume it will work for all setups until MyEnergi address this issue?
Or Connect the solar inverter and the Nibe via Modbus to ioBroker or NodeRed and achieve the same result with more control & functionality. MyEnergi will die a slow death, as modern inverters already have configurable relays built-in (Kostal now has 3 of them) and people realize, that energy management is a software game.
agree to this. This install is waste of money, you could instead use MyUplink from Nibe and control it by electricity price, as this also normally represents solar production. When price is low during the day = low price on the market as well. No external hardware needed, and that would be good compromise. Nibe Uplink smart grid control can also influence buffer and use buildings thermal mass as a battery. Customer bought quality, expensive heatpump, and now its getting another piece of expensive hardware... I really hate see when its done the most expensive and not the best way. Additionally, this MyEnergi install is not providing any savings when the heatpump uses most, which is in the winter, where there is no solar production. Instead, uplink could utilize cheaper grid periods instead... All in all expensive MyEnergi setup, overall increased consumption and unleashed potential of grid price control.
Funny, the HVAC/plumber normally does all the water/gas/electrical wiring work on the systems, not typically the electrician here in the USA. Here we also have air based heat pump water heaters directly that are gaining popularity along with the tank less units, although most tank less are gas powered as it becomes very expensive to try to heat all the water for a house in real time. So for example we have a 36KW heater which takes 150A at 240V. So that is why gas is used for that side. The heat pump based systems because the hot water recovery is so slow, will typically have a small compressor running at 120V AC (under 1800W) but many also have 240V emergency induction heaters as well just in-case the demand is too great and the compressor can't heat fast enough. Our own house just have multiple natural gas tank based heaters.
Where do you want to start? The quality of US electrics & craftsmanship, the way US houses are built & insulated or that Americans use more than double the energy per capita compared to other Western nations, ruining the climate for the next 10.000 years… that‘s 400 generations! There‘s potentially a lot to discuss here…
Usually find the 16 amp relays in the solar diverter fails after a year or two or less. What do you think. They aren't man enough to constantly switch 3 kw. Have had to bypass unit and put back to normal method for switching on/off. What do you think. Great video by the way.
The Eddi is a superb product but is it still a good idea? When you’re getting 17p/kWh for export (28p at peak) does it make sense to divert your ‘excess’ solar to heat water that, frankly, you don’t really need? It’s like boiling a kettle every half an hour on the off-chance that you might need a cup of tea. In fact, I haven’t done the maths but I bet it’s more cost effective to heat your water from a gas boiler than from ’excess’ solar when you’re losing 17p/kWh by diverting it. On top of which, you’re really helping the grid (and by extension, the planet) by being part of the smoothing out of the demand curve by exporting.
There is a bit of an issue now. If the customer is on Octopus intelligent, like i am, we get paid 15p/Kwh for export and pay only 7.5p for off peak import. If the customer is in this situation, it now makes since to fully charge all devices at off peak rate to then maximise export in the day. Not sure how easy it is to change the MyEnergy Ecosystem's settings to this new situation.
considering theres a lot of tariffs now that PAY YOU MORE TO EXPORT than costs you to import at night. its best to just export excess during the day and heat it at night on cheaper rate.
I see tech like this as kind of like the Mercedes S class / BMW 7 series of home tech: yes, currently it’s mainly aimed at high end installations and the costs are currently high, but eventually it will trickle down. At one time only the S class had heated seats, sat nav, digital dash etc, now even entry level corsas have most of it.
We do that with the EVCC running on a raspberry pi charging the car and heatpump for water where the 270 Liter water will be heated up to 62°C from surplus energy from the solarpower array. Prority 1 is the car if connected and priority 2 goes to the heatpump cause that can also deliver its energy to our radiator heatings over the heatexchanger that delivers the heat to the oil heating that is no longer running, only the hot water is running through and in case the heat delivered from the atlantic explorer V4 does not deliver enough then the oil heaating kicks in. cheap and easy solution casue the warm water heatpump with heatexchanger was about 1900€ and the evcc on raspi is about 50€ and that was a game changer for us.
Could you not setup the heat pump to heat the extra hot water cylinder, with it's superior COP? Get it to divert to heat water in both tanks, when excess solar.
Is solar gunna make a big diffrence without the battery storage? And cost of battery storage is around £30k (Allen hearts video) a £30k+ loan is probly around £600 per month... It would take many many years to pay for itself.. then you have any repairs over them years from someone who knows what they are doing and what if they fail out of warranty... I have my heating on 24/7 and with electricity is about £100 per month..
A domestic solar and battery install is nothing like £30k. Maybe £12-£14k which, on a 10y mortgage rate is about £150pm. When your lectric is £220pm you’re quids in.
@@brendanfisher2528crikey, how much battery storage do you need? Last I heard the most expensive battery was the Tesla powerwall at about £14k, others are half that or even less if you don't need that much storage.
@@brendanfisher2528friend of mine been quoted under £10k for 8kw solar and 10 kw/h battery. Solar will fit every pocket starting about £4/5k then add to it as you can afford. When electric was 16p it wasn’t really worth it but can’t see it going back there
We are installing solar panel systems and we have not been able to calculate the battery as financially viable in any way. The only places where we install batteries are off grid applications.
Probably will never pay off financially. Live in one of coldelst places in europe and even here ground source heatpumps takes too long time to pay off, and its probably what pays off the soonest. Solar on the other hand never pays off.
It was only a observation 😊 we are lucky enough to have heat source pump and solar but its not as sophisticated as that set we are up in the north/east ours is 12 years old
Great if you’re not a renter paying over the odds for the worst system, insulation and most expensive tariffs! These systems are built to save the 1% a few more quid that will sit in their banks unspent until the pass!😂
I'm not sure why you are using the immersion heater at all (apart from legionella possibly) when you have a heat pump and if you get paid for export especially if you have an EV with a cheap off peak tariff when you can use the heat pump to heat at super cheep and efficient rates. Even if you had to heat at peak times you could use your batteries if there wasn't enough live solar to run the heat pump.
I lost the plot on this one. You start by telling us that immersion heaters are inefficient when compared to heat pumps, and then appear to go on and do a complicated install to use excess electricity to power the immersion heater to heat the water. Why is the excess electricity not used directly to run the 3x + more efficient heat pump system rather than dumping it in the immersion heater?
He’s exporting a huge amount?? So you over specced the job then? Did you admit to your customer that you overcharged him for additional generation equipment he didn’t need??
It’s just being used as a volt free contact, he’s just used to referring to cat5 used in that way as RS485 as that’s what it mostly is. You can see where he connects it into aux2 that it’s just looking for switch contacts.
Request a quote from Artisan Electrics here - app.openquote.net/company/artisanelectrics
Very interesting about triggering the heat pump from the Eddi. I've not done that with mine. I used to simply divert solar excess to the immersion element until I realised that raising the water temperature during the day stopped the heat pump heating the water at night on cheap rate, which it was set to do, because it made the water already hot enough. Add to that if you are on Octopus Flux then you are much better off exporting at 20-30p/kWh than saving the overnight water heating with cheap rate divided by COP to keep the water hot.
Heating from solar excess with the heat pump is better but it only saves that already cheap rate/COP overnight by shifting it to the day.
I use the Eddi now as a timed top up for the Legionella cycle one a week if the heat pump can't quite get it up to 60°C along with its PT1000 to monitor temperature.
Incidentally, if the 400L tank is already at 50°C it only takes 4.6kWh to raise the temperature up to 60°C so it's not a huge energy store.
I'd be interested in what other uses for the Eddi there could be.
One of your best customers, no doubt judging by the amount of kit they've got!
Looking at the equipment and pipework installed I suspect this is at least a £25,000 installation. In the real World how much electricity could be bought for this sort of sum? On my current usage.....17 years!!
@@richardlewis5316 But their payback is based on their usage, and with a large home and EV, it's going to be quite different to yours.
Hello lads! A little thought for reflection having in a similar system... A negative side of this application can be excessive wear of the heat pump, aggravated by the fact of operation at higher water production temperatures. For this reason it is essential that there is an effective use of the hot water and that it is not heated for no reason... Otherwise the electric resistance is better, which despite having a lower efficiency, does not cost as much wear and tear as replacing the compressor of the heat pump. Another idea could be to accumulate heat in the building instead of in the boilers so that the production of hot water is at a low temperature and remains efficient; it would be necessary to install an intelligent thermoregulation system that increases the room temperature set points based on the use of the rooms, weather forecasts, time of day and photovoltaic production. 😉
Is Eddi still useful with a heat pump when you get 15p kWh on the export with Octopus? What settings would you do for Octopus Agile tariff for example?
Export @ 15p kWh or use the solar to heat the hot water? Is that the cheapest way to go about it if you can import at a cheaper rate and use the ASHP to heat the hot water
10:57 Confused why you are turning on the immersion? I thought the idea was the Heat Pump gives a COP value and powers the tank rather than the immersion heater? Or am I missing something?
Great video! Going to build a similar system at my farm, but I want to extract heat from the pig house in the summer and have a large centralized wood burner for heating in the winter. Im living in Norway so I require a lot of heat in the winter, so it is going to be really interesting to se if can power everything of solar and windmills.
A buffer doesn’t always increase efficiency. That’s a big statement and very debatable
Was just about to write that as well. First of it loses some energy into the room over time. And more importantly, depending how it's piped, hot and cold water mix in it. That requires the heatpump to produce hotter water then is actually going to the radiators.
I have had this setup installed with my Daikin ASHP and it works great (but it is not always the best financially depending on your export rate).
Interesting video thanks for sharing.
Wouldn't the best way be to turn on the immersion heater when there's not enough excess power to run the heat pump on, then when there is turn the heat pump on and if there's still excess after that then ramp up the immersion on top?
Fantastic video appreciate the information on setting up the Eddie .
Thanks artisan electrics and my energy
This is a really good way of using excess solar energy more efficiently.
Fronius pv inverters have had the Solar API feature for quite a bit of time. This means it can connect via a local ethernet connection like a compatible heat pump and give the heat pump the information there is this enough excess power available and the heat pump can start producing heat if set in that way. This all without additional hardware or wiring.
That’s cool
Any quality inverter (Fronius, Kostal, Huawei, SMA, …) has a Modbus Interface.
You can either use professional software & gateways or simply use ioBroker, Nodered or Homeassistant to switch some Shellys or show the energy status by switching a Hue bulb in traffic light colours.
and nibe has a ready built interface to use for it. And since it's an inverter pump it can regulate accordingly to use everything from the solar
@@Iceeeen Yep. This vid is about solving a non-existent problem with the wrong gadget at 3x the cost.
@@maxking3 Does Uk have electric spot price now? Because Nibe also has the included if you want to run it on the cheapest hours of the day
Really good video! 👍
"Right up my alley" 😊
The NIBE heat-pump has an optional feature to connect directly to the inverter and use excess energy to raise the temperature of the buffer/property and/or the hot-water cylinder to efficiently 'store excess' energy when it's available.
I have a Nibe F1145 GSHP and have an Eddie installed. Do you have any info on how the feature you mention works please.
I hope you all enjoyed this video. If you did, make sure to leave a like and comment 👍 See you lot in the next one!
Very interesting. I’ve read stuff recently about sand batteries. The obvious advantage is the amount of heat you can store is far above what you can in a tank of hot water.
What’s Jordan’s thoughts on heating a sand battery by DC from the solar array?
I really enjoyed the video.
Great video.
I left a comment with helpful information for anyone wanting to replicate this setup for their own house, highlighting that there is a feature limitation that means it isn't very useful for anyone with a non Libbi battery as the heat pump will be falsely triggered when loads like a kettle turn off. Something that can be configured using the Export delay for the immersion but doesn't apply to the relay in export mode.
I can't find this comment any more, was it deleted? Surely this is important information for your viewers so they don't assume it will work for all setups until MyEnergi address this issue?
You could have just installed a NIBE EME20 to connect the inverter to the NIBE. The controls of both will take care of everything.
Or Connect the solar inverter and the Nibe via Modbus to ioBroker or NodeRed and achieve the same result with more control & functionality.
MyEnergi will die a slow death, as modern inverters already have configurable relays built-in (Kostal now has 3 of them) and people realize, that energy management is a software game.
agree to this. This install is waste of money, you could instead use MyUplink from Nibe and control it by electricity price, as this also normally represents solar production. When price is low during the day = low price on the market as well. No external hardware needed, and that would be good compromise. Nibe Uplink smart grid control can also influence buffer and use buildings thermal mass as a battery.
Customer bought quality, expensive heatpump, and now its getting another piece of expensive hardware... I really hate see when its done the most expensive and not the best way.
Additionally, this MyEnergi install is not providing any savings when the heatpump uses most, which is in the winter, where there is no solar production. Instead, uplink could utilize cheaper grid periods instead...
All in all expensive MyEnergi setup, overall increased consumption and unleashed potential of grid price control.
Funny, the HVAC/plumber normally does all the water/gas/electrical wiring work on the systems, not typically the electrician here in the USA. Here we also have air based heat pump water heaters directly that are gaining popularity along with the tank less units, although most tank less are gas powered as it becomes very expensive to try to heat all the water for a house in real time. So for example we have a 36KW heater which takes 150A at 240V. So that is why gas is used for that side. The heat pump based systems because the hot water recovery is so slow, will typically have a small compressor running at 120V AC (under 1800W) but many also have 240V emergency induction heaters as well just in-case the demand is too great and the compressor can't heat fast enough. Our own house just have multiple natural gas tank based heaters.
Where do you want to start? The quality of US electrics & craftsmanship, the way US houses are built & insulated or that Americans use more than double the energy per capita compared to other Western nations, ruining the climate for the next 10.000 years… that‘s 400 generations!
There‘s potentially a lot to discuss here…
😂
He mentioned big changes coming to Eddi. Did that happen and if yes what was it ?
Usually find the 16 amp relays in the solar diverter fails after a year or two or less. What do you think. They aren't man enough to constantly switch 3 kw. Have had to bypass unit and put back to normal method for switching on/off. What do you think. Great video by the way.
eddi is a bit more clever, works like a dimmer switch
@@edc1569 So it's using PWM?
The Eddi is a superb product but is it still a good idea? When you’re getting 17p/kWh for export (28p at peak) does it make sense to divert your ‘excess’ solar to heat water that, frankly, you don’t really need? It’s like boiling a kettle every half an hour on the off-chance that you might need a cup of tea. In fact, I haven’t done the maths but I bet it’s more cost effective to heat your water from a gas boiler than from ’excess’ solar when you’re losing 17p/kWh by diverting it. On top of which, you’re really helping the grid (and by extension, the planet) by being part of the smoothing out of the demand curve by exporting.
There is a bit of an issue now. If the customer is on Octopus intelligent, like i am, we get paid 15p/Kwh for export and pay only 7.5p for off peak import. If the customer is in this situation, it now makes since to fully charge all devices at off peak rate to then maximise export in the day. Not sure how easy it is to change the MyEnergy Ecosystem's settings to this new situation.
You can change then to leverage this, we are working on a auto mode to adjust the schedule for you for getting the most cost effective energy
The Hysteresis is typically the range. So that would have been set to off above 63 and on below 62 17:09
Super nice one 😎🇨🇮
Wish all this gear was available in Australia, to bad the batteries are too expensive here and no rebates available..
considering theres a lot of tariffs now that PAY YOU MORE TO EXPORT than costs you to import at night. its best to just export excess during the day and heat it at night on cheaper rate.
I see tech like this as kind of like the Mercedes S class / BMW 7 series of home tech: yes, currently it’s mainly aimed at high end installations and the costs are currently high, but eventually it will trickle down. At one time only the S class had heated seats, sat nav, digital dash etc, now even entry level corsas have most of it.
Better fitting aircon 1:4 efficiency and cools you, put an eddi to run the hot water, simpler cheaper
Luckily octopus export pays an ok rate at the moment, so you don't need to bother with any of this.
Which is the pipe insulation used there ?
Armaflex ?
We do that with the EVCC running on a raspberry pi charging the car and heatpump for water where the 270 Liter water will be heated up to 62°C from surplus energy from the solarpower array. Prority 1 is the car if connected and priority 2 goes to the heatpump cause that can also deliver its energy to our radiator heatings over the heatexchanger that delivers the heat to the oil heating that is no longer running, only the hot water is running through and in case the heat delivered from the atlantic explorer V4 does not deliver enough then the oil heaating kicks in.
cheap and easy solution casue the warm water heatpump with heatexchanger was about 1900€ and the evcc on raspi is about 50€ and that was a game changer for us.
Can you please provide some more information on how to do this with Raspberry PI
Could you not setup the heat pump to heat the extra hot water cylinder, with it's superior COP? Get it to divert to heat water in both tanks, when excess solar.
You need to kill the bacteria built up too once a week so if it gets extra energy through solar it should be cheaper
Nothing seems to change with Solar, it’s tech for those with money. I maintained 20 years ago it should be piled high and sold cheap to the masses.
…Or those who can borrow money. It can be cheaper to pay for the loan each month than to pay for the fuel!
Is solar gunna make a big diffrence without the battery storage?
And cost of battery storage is around £30k (Allen hearts video) a £30k+ loan is probly around £600 per month... It would take many many years to pay for itself.. then you have any repairs over them years from someone who knows what they are doing and what if they fail out of warranty... I have my heating on 24/7 and with electricity is about £100 per month..
A domestic solar and battery install is nothing like £30k. Maybe £12-£14k which, on a 10y mortgage rate is about £150pm. When your lectric is £220pm you’re quids in.
@@brendanfisher2528crikey, how much battery storage do you need? Last I heard the most expensive battery was the Tesla powerwall at about £14k, others are half that or even less if you don't need that much storage.
@@brendanfisher2528friend of mine been quoted under £10k for 8kw solar and 10 kw/h battery. Solar will fit every pocket starting about £4/5k then add to it as you can afford. When electric was 16p it wasn’t really worth it but can’t see it going back there
how much did you charge the costumer for that 1.998£ + VAT or less than that😊
And if you are a really good electrician, cover the temp probe hole with insulation. Because that is substantial heat loss when open!
And if you're an even better electrician then apply some thermal paste too 😏
get back to me when he does a deep bore geothermal heat pump please
what's the estimated cost of all of those batteries in that plant room and solar panels?
1 million dollars.
I seen a video of allen heart and he has a smaller set up in his house and cost over £30k for the battery set up
We are installing solar panel systems and we have not been able to calculate the battery as financially viable in any way. The only places where we install batteries are off grid applications.
I have to say that heat pump set up isn't in a average property 😂
Probably will never pay off financially. Live in one of coldelst places in europe and even here ground source heatpumps takes too long time to pay off, and its probably what pays off the soonest. Solar on the other hand never pays off.
It was only a observation 😊
we are lucky enough to have heat source pump and solar but its not as sophisticated as that set we are up in the north/east
ours is 12 years old
Great if you’re not a renter paying over the odds for the worst system, insulation and most expensive tariffs! These systems are built to save the 1% a few more quid that will sit in their banks unspent until the pass!😂
I'm not sure why you are using the immersion heater at all (apart from legionella possibly) when you have a heat pump and if you get paid for export especially if you have an EV with a cheap off peak tariff when you can use the heat pump to heat at super cheep and efficient rates. Even if you had to heat at peak times you could use your batteries if there wasn't enough live solar to run the heat pump.
Be warned do not use on Mitsubishi eco dan, it nearly blew the house up
What happened?
I lost the plot on this one. You start by telling us that immersion heaters are inefficient when compared to heat pumps, and then appear to go on and do a complicated install to use excess electricity to power the immersion heater to heat the water.
Why is the excess electricity not used directly to run the 3x + more efficient heat pump system rather than dumping it in the immersion heater?
nibe products are made to cope with the climate in the north of Scandinavia. good but expensive!
interesting video but useless to 90% of installations as typical customer wont have an array of the size this customer has.
I would say more like ;99%
Since Cory left your videos have gone crap. Only so many solar and ev chargers you can watch
He’s exporting a huge amount?? So you over specced the job then? Did you admit to your customer that you overcharged him for additional generation equipment he didn’t need??
RS485 to n/o and common 🤔😳🙄
it is just for show 🙂
It’s just being used as a volt free contact, he’s just used to referring to cat5 used in that way as RS485 as that’s what it mostly is. You can see where he connects it into aux2 that it’s just looking for switch contacts.
It is likely ModbusRTU, as that‘s still a common interface for heatpumps & solar inverters. It is using RS485 as a transport medium.
@@maxking3 it’s volt free contacts.
I noticed that too..... Not RS485 at all or any communication, just a dry contact and switched input. I/O is not RS232 or RS485.
السلام عليكم كيف حالكم انا من الجزائر انا من موتبهن
Do Rich people watch youtube?
Yes.
Heat pumps are garbage 👍🏼
Do you have one? Mine already paid itself back.
Not for air conditioning
Ours works spot on !!
Kevin is to poor to buy a heat pump 😢
@@Dale-11 😂😂😂 amazing how you know my financial situation