Absolutely agree but there is for me, and others I introduced to heat pumps to, one of the big plus points is the COMFORT of heat pump heating. unlike heating with gas which is an on or off affair Heat pump heating when you set it up for a low flow temperature runs long and gentle so the walls of the house warm up and the warmth is all-around heat so that you feel more comfortably warm.
I'd like to put a shout out for air to air heat pumps. I've just had these installed in three rooms and they are brilliant. Efficient, like the air to water but you can cool too which for those with solar is a winner in Summer. Do give these some thought if you're looking.
@@intruder313 yes they are. Almost all 'air conditioners' that you can buy in the UK are actually heat pumps that can heat and cool. Just remember they can't do hot water. Well, they could in theory but those sorts of systems don't seem to be available. A shame really as in summer they could dump the waste heat from cooling in to a hot water tank.
@@robwalker864 I think there are systems which do exactly that. My heat pump at least (which is an AC unit mainly) can connect to 2 AC units + a water tank. But I don't think the water tank is heated up with the heat from the AC, the plumbing inside the unit would be ridiculous. But geothermal pumps for example are heating water which goes into the ground through pipes. The heat can also go into your pool. I believe if you contact a company specializing in heat pumps you might find one that can do both heating and cooling and scavenge the heat into a boiler somehow.
Just got mine Vaillant AroTHERM plus 7kW Installed 2 wks ago have to say I’ll never go back to using gas boiler. heating on 24/7 Complete comfort Cheap to run using green tariff and home storage battery 🔋 Very happy
Here in Eastern Canada heat pumps have become very popular, but they are almost always heating the air, not water. It is mostly mini splits, but some people have whole home systems with duct work similar to a forced air furnace. The only one I know with a water system has a ground source heat pump and in-floor heating. Of course not that many people have hot water heating system in their houses. Most have forced air or electric baseboards, so there aren't that many systems to retro-fit.
Yep ASHP's do work. I have one and we were on LPG, so cleared a huge bulk storage tank from our back garden. Overall the heating is now far quieter in our home and it is very comfortable as well as cheaper to run. Also as you said, gained an extra cupboard in our utility!
The only reason heat pumps aren't much cheaper than gas boilers in any house is just down to the artificially high price of electricity compared to gas - electricity (and hence heat pumps) pays a higher rate of tax than gas, plus electricity prices are based upon the price of gas even if the majority is being generated by renewables. The UK has a far higher spark gap (ratio of electricity price to gas) than any other European nation. In the Netherlands electricity is cheaper than gas and Sweden electricity is just a bit more expensive, so not surprisingly heat pumps are a no-brainer there.
We replaced our perfectly good gas boiler with a 12kw valiant arotherm in Oct 2023. IT IS AMAZING. our house is constantly toasty 20 degrees. We have loads of hot water. 98% of the time it is TOTALLY SILENT. We live in central Scotland. It's been minus double digits and our house is still warm. We have installed 10kw of solar panels and 10kwh battery. We have an electric car. OUR ENERGY BILL FOR A 4 BED DETACHED HOUSE INCLUDING 10,000 MILES OF DRIVING IS NOW ABOUT £1,000 PER YEAR. Gas boiler and diesel car we spent £4,000 per year. Our C02 emissions from heating our house with gas and driving a diesel car have dropped from 8 TONNES OF CO2 to 400kg. IGNORE THE SCEPTICS THIS IS THE FUTURE!!!
@@mrmiruk In our case it was around £7k + 1K ASHP (as got 15Kw of Pylontech batteries for just over 2k in last 2 years), the basic Victron MP-II 5Kw GX + 7.2Kw of pylontech from my local distributer=voltacon was £5k - 2 years ago), so think I've already paid it back in 2 years? - The Daikin ASHP (6Kw), was accident damaged at £900 + fitting was around £300 mainly 28mm copper pipes (tip B&Q have 28mm copper pipes cheaper than 22mm at around £8/m) - EDIT - I should say that we use IOG, which allows charging of all electric at 7p/unit well before the 11:30pm official time (with an ohme charger connected to an EV)
Thnx Andy. We've had our heatpump for nearly a year. Would I return to gas boiler... never! I've never lived in such comfort! Always hot water and pleasantly warm home everywhere at such low cost, bc the power I've sold to the grid has more than paid for our winter needs! My advice to anyone thinking of going this route is to make sure you thoroughly do the research. M
We've got a 16kW heat pump, you can have a whispered conversation next to it when it's on full speed :) Entering our first full winter with it and so far we're very very happy and no more oil deliveries. Along with solar and batteries we're looking at over a 75% reduction in our energy bills :D I believe a lot of the negative experiences are due to the lack of education of the owner and cowboy installers.
Straight swap, gas boiler to heat pump, with no solar or batteries will cost roughly the same in pounds per month to run. This is such an important message to get out there. Cheers EVM.
The thermal efficiency of your properties should have been improved as much as humanly possible before the heat pump system was installed. Doing that would save you money no matter what heating system you have… but yeah.. electricity is still 4 x more expensive than gas so we need the solar and battery’s to offset the electricity bill… all a big out lay 😩
@@damiendye6623No mate- heat pumps are brilliant when the house is as thermally efficient as possible and the heating system is designed to match the house’s thermal efficiency. We all know fossil fuel heating systems need to go- but we all know what we’re on about don’t we.
We recently got the kit, PV/battery/heatpump. No more gasboiler or gas anything.our boiler is set to 60 degrees max for legionella and ranges around 46 degrees for hot water and between 35 and 40 degrees for radiator. We’ve set our Livingston temp on 19.7 which is cozy enough for us.love the system. Our outside unit is not really noisy. It’s situated about 14 meters from the street, where it is not noticeable. We don’t hear in the house or in the bedroom, even with the window open.
One problem is that the heat pump needs to be on all day when electricity is most expensive. Having a night time tariff is OK but the battery needs to be pretty big to supply all daytime demands. When it is very cold outside my 9kw heat pump will be using 3kw of electricity all day so that could be 50kwh on extreme days.
@ our system has been installed very recently, so not much data to go to. So far in the past two months my total energy usage, including heatpump, has been about 9kW on average per day
Straight swap IF you had mains gas, might work out at roughly the same cost that's true. BUT if weren't on mains gas, it 100% works out cheaper. I was on LPG, and when I was offered solar, heat pump and solid wall insulation under an ECO4 scheme, I agreed to it. I worked out that as long as the running cost was below £250 a month, I would be saving money. It was installed in Novermber last year, it's a 12kW Samsung unit. Although January cost me £281 my monthly average is still sitting at £127 for the whole of this year. I am paying EDF £135 a month just so I have an extra bit of a buffer in the account, but so far it seems I am definitely saving money. And as of July I am on the EDF heat pump trial tariff so between 4-7am and 1-4pm my electricity is 10p cheaper than the variable standard rate, so it will be interesting to see what difference that makes during the winter. So far it means my bills are roughly £15 a month cheaper, but I suspect that saving might be larger in the winter. The biggest thing I have learned, is not to treat it like a boiler. Continuous heat at a lower temperature is more comfortable and more cost effective than periods of high heat, and then allowing the house to cool down, which means the heat pump has to work harder to get it back to the target temperature. As such I have stopped doing things like setting a lower overnight temperature, because it's false economy.
Our 5kW heat pump is much quieter than the outdoor oil boiler it replaced, it has a maximum power consumption of 1.55kW which is actually only 3 times more power than the boiler consumed when running; those fans and injection pumps are power hungry beasts. We were able to use the same power supply and pipework, and because all our heating and hot water is from a thermal store it took literally 2 hours to swap over.
I’ve finally established I can have one as I don’t have space for all the internal GUBBINS or batteries and I can’t have solar due to one small western roof and nothing south. Got all the way to a £10k quote which is also a joke. Installers are bumping up the price now that they know about the £7.5k grant. Sad but true. If I ever get a decent house this and an EV charger are high on my list (Internet speed is top)
Vaillant combi boiler running as low as 50 degree on the heating circuit with weather compensation. Works out cheaper than my 5kw single circuit heat pump next door. House with gas boiler is EPC C, the heat pump is providing heat to a space that’s EPC B. I do agree that the sensation of heat being more even, and present throughout with a heat pump is favourable with the heat pump over conventional gas combi boiler.
It is gas boilers that are the new kid on the block This first house I lived in with central heating, the boiler was fired by coke (de gassed coal bricks) back in the 1960s. Back then gas central heating was totally unheard of. because gas was made from cooking coal and steam to make stinky smelly town gas which was in short supply and only used for cooking and small gas fires..Gas boilers only took off after North Sea gas was discovered in the 1970s after and we've been addicted ever since.
I don't have room for the inside unit of the heat pump so I installed a very efficient AC (which is essentially a heat pump) and I am using it in conjunction with the conventional gas heater. I think they make a good pair and I have redundancy + AC in the summer which is increasingly becoming a must.
The British physicist Lord Kelvin established the thermodynamic theory for heat pumps in 1852. This invention predates the petrol engine (1876) by 24 years. So hardly a new invention. Widely used domestically in Scandinavian countries and worldwide in industrial settings - warehouses, shops and offices for many decades. Industry use them because they are the cheapest form of heating and cooling.
Thanks for that info. We are looking to get a heat pump installed probably next year. We built our house 15 years ago and we have solar in the summer and local wood for the winter. Yes, 15 years ago "sustainability" was a good thing, now we know burning anything isn't good. We're 1000m above sea level in the Black Forest in Southern Germany so I was concerned if a heat pump really could bring our water up to a minimum of 50C. 60 or 70c is brilliant! We have an 11000 litre water cistern in the garden so I'm looking to see if the heat pump can get its warmth from that. Thanks again for your informative videos!
I have a quite large 4 bedroom detached house with an Ecoforest 9kw ground source heat pump located in the garage. he central heating used to be an oil boiler with a hot water tank fed by a storage tank in the loft and microbore. Some of the microbore was taken out when the heat pump was installed but a lot remains. My system is now mixed with some microbore, some 15mm and some underfloor heating. The radiators were resized and it all works very well.
Great video. I went straight to the comments with my popcorn and I was disappointed. Clearly the truth is starting to prevail over the mis and disinformation! No mention of improved comfort levels in your home though?
We've had our pump for almost two years and are just about used to it! You mentioned you get your hot water up to 72c. Ours only manages 48c. Our installers said this was standard. The only time our water is above 60 is when surplus from our roof heats it. Perhaps I'll ask our supplier when the system is serviced next month.
Heat pumps that use R32 or R410a are limited to about 55C. R290 ones, which are very common now are able to do 70C+. You may have an immersion if you want higher than what the heat pump can provide or for anti-legionella. But that's only for taking it from the maximum the heat pump can achieve to the desired temperature.
I was lucky enough to have an ASHP fitted 4 years ago as a case study for OVO energy who were fitting them to existing housing stock to see how they perform. I have an averagely built 1960s semi detached bungalow, 1980s double glazing, 70mm cavity walls with blown insulation and 300mm loft roll. They replaced 2 (out 7) radiators for larger ones, others retained. Heat pump is nigh on silent just outside my bedroom. Cost to run is virtually the same as the gas boiler it replaced, slightly cheaper but not enough to notice. People that say they done work in existing houses without massive upgrades are wrong. *obviously insulate first where possible for easy wins. However, the comfort is FAR better than it was with the gas boiler, it’s always just an even, comfortable heat compared to peaks and troughs of heat you get as the boiler runs, cuts out then kicks in again.
My 12-ish year old Mitsubishi 8.5kw 'only' goes down to a minimum consumption of about 750w plus the pumps. So about 900w or so in total. It spends so much of it's time at that minimum output power that I'll probably save quite a bit when it comes to swapping it. I'd really like a new shiny Vaillant unit like yours, but no grant for me obviously!
My parents were a nightmare to get trained on how to work their system, because they were acting as if it was a regular boiler, and were only putting it on for an hour here or there. Getting my mum to leave the thermostat alone was a nightmare.
I am happy that this wonderful technology works so well for you if its sold appropriately planned and installed it should be great. We have it st work in our metal box of a building the air/ ventilation exchange dude of it seems to work fairly well though it seems to be controlled centrally upstairs so we don't get to choose our room temp. There are some radiators around but am not sure how they are integrated into the system as I have never felt any heat emanating from any I have access to. Likely that the quality of the company you buy from is as important as the equipment.
PSA: Avoid the 9kW Daikin where possible. The compressor noise is very noticeable and it can’t modulate below a 1kW input. (The 8kW is much better if you can push for it and can modulate down to 300w input)
I had a survey done by octopus for a heat pump and unfortunately the Valiant was too loud to go outside due to the regulations and the Cosey 6 used gas that was not allowed near any of my brick air vents. (which are dotted all around the house) so ended up disappointed.
I have the same Vaillant 5kW HP as you and concur with everything you’ve said. It’s not silent, but it’s not noisy, definitely quieter than the gas boiler it replaced. The house is consistently warmer than it used to be, and it’s incredibly efficient. The last 4 weeks has averaged 7.5 kWh per day for heating and hot water. The same period last year when we were on Gas used an average of 40kWh per day. I have battery storage, charged overnight on Intelligent Octopus at 7p, the total cost of heating and hot water for October was £10.85. Oh, and the wife has gained an additional cupboard in the Kitchen where the boiler used to be!
@ Yes, I have 4.7kW of Solar, 1 x 8.2 and 1 x 9.5kW GivEnergy Batteries. Solar contributed next to nothing in October, one of the worst months I’ve ever had!
@@chrisrowe22 thanks! I’ve had a quote from octopus for a heat pump. I’m on intelligent octopus for car charging. From what you say it seems as though heat pump + battery would be a viable solution even without solar?
My current house cannot get to 21C in 6 hours when its under 5C outside unless I have my boiler set to above 75C. Its very drafty and poorly insulated. I'd estimate it loses 15kW at 21C. Your house is losing between 3-5 kW, maybe less, thats why you can use a heatpump. I'd suggest If you used the immersion heater you would not notice the difference in electric usage, especially if you have low off-peak.
I guess you have had one of these conversations. I mention I have a heat pump and someone spiels out all the myths. They cost a fortune, you will be cold all the time, etc. Each one I say no to. Maybe even show a monthly energy bill, I have solar, a heat pump and time shift batteries, so my bills are comfortably low. The response is "that is all made up, I know the truth, you must be lying" and off they go in a huff. Personally I do not care what they have or do. Why do they have to convert me away from what to me is super affordable and comfortable? Very strange.
I would really like an ASHP but before that happens a few things need to change. Firstly the rules on where a heat pump can be sited in the UK needs reform, secondly the 4:1 difference in the UK price of electricity/gas needs to come down and finally my wife has to be persuaded.
The ratio has come down in a way. I used to pay a tadge over 6p per KW for gas. I pay 7p per KW for electricity at night and in reality all day as well thanks to sizable time shift battery. So for me the ratio as near as dam it is 1:1.
Unless you have a Scandinavian standard insulation build ( then it won't matter anyway), better to use an on demand high temperature fuel ( oil, gas) system. Then you can subsidise this with export solar / cheap rate battery energy via say Octopus export at 15p / Kwh rather than use valuable solar etc energy to subsidise an expensive inefficient low temperature , always on , hard winter incompatible heat exchanger system. Humid UK winters are more prone than dry cold Scandinavian ones to heat exchanger iceup and fan seizure. After ice-up, until you manually defost with tepid water you are using expensive straight electric heating without any heat exchanger advantage. Ice-up/ fan seizure eventually causes the fan system to distort and become noisy for you and the neighbours. EVM was right in one regard, a heating engineer is needed to support or otherwise his statements here.
2 small questions for you, do you run thermostatic valves on your radiators and do you run the heating on timers to turn off the heating when you don't really need it, during the day when you may not be there or during the night? Oh one more, do you have different radiator water circuits for different areas of the house, i.e. upstairs and downstairs to turn them on and off during different times of the day?
Advice generally is to use TRVs to prevent a room overheating, or to slightly reduce the heat in unoccupied rooms - not heating them at all is not recommend. With the programmer you never turn it off unless you are away for multiple days, you just set the temperature back a few degrees during the day/night. If you have variable cost electricity you might programme it to set back the temperature a few hours before the cheaper electricity to try and shift your usage a little.
For anyone on electric radiators (see Mr EVs last video where he's spending £21 /day and seeing 4-7kw when the electric radiators are on then RUN very fast to buy a heat pump! Electric radiators are 100% efficient. Heatpumps 300-450% efficient typically
So I'm in Thailand and was looking forward to downloading this and not an option! I'll have to listen to something else while I'm the boat later, gutted!
Octopus are fitting the cosy 6 next month with the grant and the 250 off offer last month when we ordered means its cost me 250 quid to have installed.
What I wonder is why are they so expensive even with a massive grant in the UK they still cost a lot more than air conditioning units which are very similar technologies. When trying to get a ashp for our home it was cheaper to install a multi split ac unit and a hot water tank than an ashp. which had a grant how is that possible?
I've got 8 rooms in my house if I was to install an air-to-air multi split, and then deal with the refrig pipes and condense water in all 8 rooms it would cost a fortune. In 10 years when something broke I'd probably have to rip every single part out and start again.
@@edc1569 Not saying air conditioning units are better or worst, the point I am making is a 5Kw Ac unit will cost somewhere in the regions of £1000 a 5kw ashp for radiators will be around £4000. Yet the technology is very similar and the makers of both are generally the same companies eg Samsung, Vaillant, Mistubishi, LG etc. Not to mention a hot water tank for an ASHP is also more expensive than a regular. The installation cost are also seemingly much more expensive. To me it seems the grant is keeping the prices much higher than they should be.
My issue with heat pumps are the noise they make, fine when they are new but after a few years they do get more noisy, the fan starts to rattle, the casing will rattle. Now my experience is from AC units which are effectively the same but working the other way round. My experience comes from when I had a Villa in Florida, the AC unit and the pool pump heater sat on the side of our property that had no windows and no near neighbours so the noise didn’t bother us or the neighbours as they were 100mtrs away. Now in the UK your neighbours are generally fairly close, in fact in most terms very close. The noise these units will make after a few years will inevitably start to cause problems with near neighbours, that alone would cause me to not have one of these units installed.
@@ElectricVehicleManWe are not talking about a cheap AC unit, quite frankly I have never came across any outside AC unit mounted on a concrete plinth that was 5 years old and didn’t rattle like some bag of bolts in a tin can. I can assure you that yours will be no different in a few years, you will spend your spare time squeezing bits of rubber all over the casing to cut down the rattles and possibly looking for some kind of replacement fan with nylon blades instead of the metal ones. Sorry, but Be assured it will happen.
@@brianstevenson9967 The other thing to bear in mind is that inverter heat pumps aren't that common in the US. In the UK and Europe they are basically standard. The US seem to have a lot of single stage / two stage heat pumps. So they will often be a lot more noisier. Especially when starting up.
The weather over the two weeks will drop and snow 🌨️ about 4 inches expecting. Please track energy over that time and how often it uses the secondary heating and what kWh over that time and what a typical bill at normal rate it would be
Heat pumps are great if the house it’s serving is as thermally efficient as possible (and of course, has the space to accommodate the hot water cylinder) which is why todays heating engineers should properly design a low temp system and advise on up spec’ing the thermal efficiency of the property. A house with good thermal efficiency will last a life time and should be the very first thing attended to before any heating system is decided upon. Ultimately, you barely want to turn your heating on. Great U values, Solar, solar batteries and heat pumps are def the way forward in my opinion… it all just needs to be refined in to one product as all of the different tech means there’s more to maintain and more to go wrong… which is the caveat… on top of the costs of the installs 😂
Something that's never mentioned is that you are making a huge financial investment in your property. Which is a consideration if you ever want to or need to move house move house. Not everyone will want to buy a house with a heat pump. Until they become the norm.
Are there any heat pumps that work for a second-floor 2-bedroom flat like mine currently using a gas combi boiler? - also I would have a problem with a hot water cylinder location unless it could go in the attic.
Heat Geeks have just developed a mini-cylinder that goes in the same cupboard that your gas boiler used to live in. Looks to be plenty of water for a shower in a flat. It is certainly possible to mount a heat pump on brackets, up high. How high is the question - but it can be done.
All that tech, and you only save £500 per year.... Factor in the installation cost and the interest on the loan to instal.... Would stop me proceeding with a heat pump, it would take years just to break even...
We have no battery . with octopus agile and ashp we're a few hundred quid better off plus 100quid standing charge saved getting rid of gas. So it will be the same life time cost as a combi and will save 30 tonnes of co2 emission in its life.
The problem is sellers doing grant gouging that is definitely holding me back, I’ll come back in a few years time when they decide to get real on prices.
Then it's set up wrong. Get your installer back to set it up on weather compensation, so it does stable state heating. You are wasting money by killing efficiency if you're regularly trying to heat from 17C to 20C.
That's why you're supposed to leave it running 24/7 - low and slow. If you're trying to use it like an old-fashioned gas boiler then, I'm afraid, you're doing it wrong. I don't know whether you have been badly advised or just cannot bring yourself to trust the advice - but leave it running all the time, it will not cost you a great deal more and you will be comfortable. You should be able to then knock a few degrees off your circulation temperature, which will reduce your bill, negating any extra cost.
Also, if you don't already have more efficient radiators, you should definitely have those fitted, it will really help. If you're on single panels, go double, with double convectors. I am still on a gas boiler but I have adopted the "low and slow" approach in my own home. Some rooms have K2 radiators, others have 6-foot tall units, very elegant. My living room has 2 of them and it's very cosy at 21-22 celsius all the time.
The biggest barrier to heat pump uptake is the 4:1 ratio of electricity to gas prices. With the poor COP rating when heating the hot water tank, anyone with a very well insulated home will find the total COP for heating and hot water drops well below 4, making it uneconomical. At least that's what mine worked out at. Heating got a SCOP of 4.21, but water had a SCOP of 1.75, so total SCOP is 3.1.
My scop for my water is 2.9. DHW accounts for far less than heating. Do you use your immersion heater? As for price, a tariff changes that completely. Especially when all my hot water is done at 7p electric price.
@@ElectricVehicleMan The DHW SCOP was calculated using the heatpunk website, and that calculated 1.75 with a DHW storage temp of 50, so a flow temp of 55. The problem is that our heating is mostly used to heat the DHW, as our home is so well insulated the demand for space heating is very low. So DHW accounts for a higher proportion of total demand. And the calculations were done for an occupation rate of only 2 people. With more people, DHW demand would be even higher. What we need is a more efficient way of providing hot water. For newer, super insulated homes, a heat pump costs more to run than a gas boiler, as most of the demand is for hot water, not space heating.
@@tarbat The website is wrong. I’m getting 2.9 and it’s set to 53c. And that’s all at night when it’s less efficient (but cheaper). You’re basing it on flawed data. What I get is very common. 1.75 for 50c is ridiculously low.
@@richardcorns8553 Maybe the heatpunk website is a bad website for getting an idea about whether a heat pump is economical or not. It came highly recommended from other heat pump experts.
@ Thanks I’ve just had a heatpump fitted and it’s having some issues taking hours to try and heat a 180ltr tank and failing to get to 50 and making an extreme amount of noise heating is also cycling on and off and taking hours to raise temp by 1 degree and again is very noisy and cop of just 1.2. Installers are looking into it so hopefully it’s nothing to serious
@ it’s an octopus cosy 6 low flow temp is set at 37 and high at 57 they’ve removed the option to change the flow temperatures from the app since i looked. They are now suspecting it’s a faulty heatpump but waiting to hear back as they are monitoring it remotely
@@axelc8611 The Cosy 6 uses R290 so will definitely heat the tank to 50, so something is not working properly. It should be able to heat to 60 though no point in going that high except for a Legionnaires cycle if you have that set.
My previous one that was about 15 years old was still very quiet up to the day it "died". It didn't actually die, just ended up not being able to heat as well when the temperature drop compared to how it was able to in previous years.
@@ElectricVehicleMan The one that you call out in the video - you say that you will put in the usage graph of your heatpump for December 17th but no graph appears on screen that I could see, anyway.
A street full of heat pumps and I think you would notice the noise and the boilers are internal so don't think the noise is comparable and no I'm not anti heat pumps!
I like the idea of a heat pump, apart from a water tank.. , having to have new radiators.. and costs involved to change.. from gas. So if the three above are solved.. I’d get one. They’ve got to make them fit to your existing pipe work and radiators.. until they do that they’re not viable for most…
I will state aging. I would never ever recoup the outlay of a heat pump in my lifetime. I recently looked at a house with a heat pump and solar panels, two car chargers in a double garage. It had been reduced as it had been on sale for a while. A similar house without all that had just sold for more. The owner could not understand why his house had not sold, when he had spend thousands on the technology.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Why is it then? I did not buy it. It did have a wood burner though and sea coal was available not far away to pick up, which he informed me he did. Still for sale. I may put in an offer but I would fit an oiled fired boiler.
Haha you WEF muppets, you've clearly been convinced a lie by big Heat Pump, you'll forever be paying money for all that free energy. I am truly free and heat my house with my own energy stored in my own oil tank from my own oil pump pulled out of my own oil well. What if you have a power cut - I have a hand pump for my oil system and water circulator. hahahahahah
How long running to heat water TANK.We did away with 20 years ago. Rads will never be anywhere as hot as Gas Boiler. You need rads 25/ 30% larger to compensate. Anything running on ELECTRIC IS EXPENSIVE. You are running a Electric Fridge Compressor. Do not fall fo all this BULL SHIT . Look at the price of ELECTRICITY IN NORWAY AND SWEDEN WAY BELOW US UK. Your GAS BOILER TURN IT ON HOT WATER HEAT INSTANT. QED.
So far in November: Transmission cost per kWh: 0.307SEK / 2.2p Tax per kWh: 0.535SEK / 3.9p Average supply price (I've paid) so far in November per kWh: 0.943SEK / 6.8p Total: 12.9p/kWh OVO have a Heat pump tariff that's 15p/kWh, and other tariffs even out at about the same. So, y'know totally "WAY BELOW".
Absolutely agree but there is for me, and others I introduced to heat pumps to, one of the big plus points is the COMFORT of heat pump heating. unlike heating with gas which is an on or off affair Heat pump heating when you set it up for a low flow temperature runs long and gentle so the walls of the house warm up and the warmth is all-around heat so that you feel more comfortably warm.
I'd like to put a shout out for air to air heat pumps. I've just had these installed in three rooms and they are brilliant. Efficient, like the air to water but you can cool too which for those with solar is a winner in Summer.
Do give these some thought if you're looking.
Are there basically air cons with the reverse mode to heat ? Might look at that
@@intruder313 yes they are. Almost all 'air conditioners' that you can buy in the UK are actually heat pumps that can heat and cool. Just remember they can't do hot water. Well, they could in theory but those sorts of systems don't seem to be available. A shame really as in summer they could dump the waste heat from cooling in to a hot water tank.
@@robwalker864 I think there are systems which do exactly that. My heat pump at least (which is an AC unit mainly) can connect to 2 AC units + a water tank. But I don't think the water tank is heated up with the heat from the AC, the plumbing inside the unit would be ridiculous.
But geothermal pumps for example are heating water which goes into the ground through pipes. The heat can also go into your pool. I believe if you contact a company specializing in heat pumps you might find one that can do both heating and cooling and scavenge the heat into a boiler somehow.
Just got mine Vaillant AroTHERM plus 7kW
Installed 2 wks ago have to say I’ll never go back to using gas boiler.
heating on 24/7
Complete comfort
Cheap to run using green tariff and home storage battery 🔋
Very happy
Here in Eastern Canada heat pumps have become very popular, but they are almost always heating the air, not water. It is mostly mini splits, but some people have whole home systems with duct work similar to a forced air furnace. The only one I know with a water system has a ground source heat pump and in-floor heating.
Of course not that many people have hot water heating system in their houses. Most have forced air or electric baseboards, so there aren't that many systems to retro-fit.
Yep ASHP's do work. I have one and we were on LPG, so cleared a huge bulk storage tank from our back garden. Overall the heating is now far quieter in our home and it is very comfortable as well as cheaper to run. Also as you said, gained an extra cupboard in our utility!
The only reason heat pumps aren't much cheaper than gas boilers in any house is just down to the artificially high price of electricity compared to gas - electricity (and hence heat pumps) pays a higher rate of tax than gas, plus electricity prices are based upon the price of gas even if the majority is being generated by renewables.
The UK has a far higher spark gap (ratio of electricity price to gas) than any other European nation. In the Netherlands electricity is cheaper than gas and Sweden electricity is just a bit more expensive, so not surprisingly heat pumps are a no-brainer there.
You can get tariffs that give you 30 Minute pricing and it's only 4 till 7 that's expensive, try research.
We replaced our perfectly good gas boiler with a 12kw valiant arotherm in Oct 2023. IT IS AMAZING. our house is constantly toasty 20 degrees. We have loads of hot water. 98% of the time it is TOTALLY SILENT. We live in central Scotland. It's been minus double digits and our house is still warm. We have installed 10kw of solar panels and 10kwh battery. We have an electric car. OUR ENERGY BILL FOR A 4 BED DETACHED HOUSE INCLUDING 10,000 MILES OF DRIVING IS NOW ABOUT £1,000 PER YEAR. Gas boiler and diesel car we spent £4,000 per year. Our C02 emissions from heating our house with gas and driving a diesel car have dropped from 8 TONNES OF CO2 to 400kg. IGNORE THE SCEPTICS THIS IS THE FUTURE!!!
Were exactly the same, gone from £4k+ down to less than £1k. (in ourcase we have a Victron system & 20kw batteries, thanks to EV Puzzle)
Those numbers are great! How much did it all cost to set up and what's your payback period?
20 degrees! I would be roasting my **** off at that temp. 17 for me 😂
@@mrmiruk In our case it was around £7k + 1K ASHP (as got 15Kw of Pylontech batteries for just over 2k in last 2 years), the basic Victron MP-II 5Kw GX + 7.2Kw of pylontech from my local distributer=voltacon was £5k - 2 years ago), so think I've already paid it back in 2 years? - The Daikin ASHP (6Kw), was accident damaged at £900 + fitting was around £300 mainly 28mm copper pipes (tip B&Q have 28mm copper pipes cheaper than 22mm at around £8/m) - EDIT - I should say that we use IOG, which allows charging of all electric at 7p/unit well before the 11:30pm official time (with an ohme charger connected to an EV)
Well said
Thnx Andy. We've had our heatpump for nearly a year. Would I return to gas boiler... never! I've never lived in such comfort! Always hot water and pleasantly warm home everywhere at such low cost, bc the power I've sold to the grid has more than paid for our winter needs!
My advice to anyone thinking of going this route is to make sure you thoroughly do the research. M
We've got a 16kW heat pump, you can have a whispered conversation next to it when it's on full speed :) Entering our first full winter with it and so far we're very very happy and no more oil deliveries. Along with solar and batteries we're looking at over a 75% reduction in our energy bills :D
I believe a lot of the negative experiences are due to the lack of education of the owner and cowboy installers.
Straight swap, gas boiler to heat pump, with no solar or batteries will cost roughly the same in pounds per month to run. This is such an important message to get out there. Cheers EVM.
The cost for me is the same, as well, but the house is warmer or should I say always warm.
The thermal efficiency of your properties should have been improved as much as humanly possible before the heat pump system was installed.
Doing that would save you money no matter what heating system you have… but yeah.. electricity is still 4 x more expensive than gas so we need the solar and battery’s to offset the electricity bill… all a big out lay 😩
a heat pump would most probably cost way more to run than a gas boiler if it was a straight swap!
@@PlumbExejust pumping out tripe to keep selling gas boilers!
@@damiendye6623No mate- heat pumps are brilliant when the house is as thermally efficient as possible and the heating system is designed to match the house’s thermal efficiency.
We all know fossil fuel heating systems need to go- but we all know what we’re on about don’t we.
We recently got the kit, PV/battery/heatpump. No more gasboiler or gas anything.our boiler is set to 60 degrees max for legionella and ranges around 46 degrees for hot water and between 35 and 40 degrees for radiator. We’ve set our Livingston temp on 19.7 which is cozy enough for us.love the system. Our outside unit is not really noisy. It’s situated about 14 meters from the street, where it is not noticeable. We don’t hear in the house or in the bedroom, even with the window open.
One problem is that the heat pump needs to be on all day when electricity is most expensive. Having a night time tariff is OK but the battery needs to be pretty big to supply all daytime demands. When it is very cold outside my 9kw heat pump will be using 3kw of electricity all day so that could be 50kwh on extreme days.
@ our system has been installed very recently, so not much data to go to. So far in the past two months my total energy usage, including heatpump, has been about 9kW on average per day
Straight swap IF you had mains gas, might work out at roughly the same cost that's true. BUT if weren't on mains gas, it 100% works out cheaper. I was on LPG, and when I was offered solar, heat pump and solid wall insulation under an ECO4 scheme, I agreed to it. I worked out that as long as the running cost was below £250 a month, I would be saving money. It was installed in Novermber last year, it's a 12kW Samsung unit. Although January cost me £281 my monthly average is still sitting at £127 for the whole of this year. I am paying EDF £135 a month just so I have an extra bit of a buffer in the account, but so far it seems I am definitely saving money. And as of July I am on the EDF heat pump trial tariff so between 4-7am and 1-4pm my electricity is 10p cheaper than the variable standard rate, so it will be interesting to see what difference that makes during the winter. So far it means my bills are roughly £15 a month cheaper, but I suspect that saving might be larger in the winter. The biggest thing I have learned, is not to treat it like a boiler. Continuous heat at a lower temperature is more comfortable and more cost effective than periods of high heat, and then allowing the house to cool down, which means the heat pump has to work harder to get it back to the target temperature. As such I have stopped doing things like setting a lower overnight temperature, because it's false economy.
with the ec04 scheme how much did your total install cost with and with out the grant
Our 5kW heat pump is much quieter than the outdoor oil boiler it replaced, it has a maximum power consumption of 1.55kW which is actually only 3 times more power than the boiler consumed when running; those fans and injection pumps are power hungry beasts. We were able to use the same power supply and pipework, and because all our heating and hot water is from a thermal store it took literally 2 hours to swap over.
Re Noise - We don't get the cricking/clanking of the pipe either which used to wake me up.
I can hear my gas boiler come on from the other side of the house.
I’ve finally established I can have one as I don’t have space for all the internal GUBBINS or batteries and I can’t have solar due to one small western roof and nothing south.
Got all the way to a £10k quote which is also a joke. Installers are bumping up the price now that they know about the £7.5k grant.
Sad but true.
If I ever get a decent house this and an EV charger are high on my list (Internet speed is top)
Vaillant combi boiler running as low as 50 degree on the heating circuit with weather compensation. Works out cheaper than my 5kw single circuit heat pump next door. House with gas boiler is
EPC C, the heat pump is providing heat to a space that’s EPC B. I do agree that the sensation of heat being more even, and present throughout with a heat pump is favourable with the heat pump over conventional gas combi boiler.
It is gas boilers that are the new kid on the block This first house I lived in with central heating, the boiler was fired by coke (de gassed coal bricks) back in the 1960s. Back then gas central heating was totally unheard of. because gas was made from cooking coal and steam to make stinky smelly town gas which was in short supply and only used for cooking and small gas fires..Gas boilers only took off after North Sea gas was discovered in the 1970s after and we've been addicted ever since.
I don't have room for the inside unit of the heat pump so I installed a very efficient AC (which is essentially a heat pump) and I am using it in conjunction with the conventional gas heater. I think they make a good pair and I have redundancy + AC in the summer which is increasingly becoming a must.
The British physicist Lord Kelvin established the thermodynamic theory for heat pumps in 1852. This invention predates the petrol engine (1876) by 24 years. So hardly a new invention. Widely used domestically in Scandinavian countries and worldwide in industrial settings - warehouses, shops and offices for many decades. Industry use them because they are the cheapest form of heating and cooling.
Great video. And really well said. Really thinking about this now. The bad installations are in the past now. These things really do work
Thanks for that info. We are looking to get a heat pump installed probably next year. We built our house 15 years ago and we have solar in the summer and local wood for the winter. Yes, 15 years ago "sustainability" was a good thing, now we know burning anything isn't good. We're 1000m above sea level in the Black Forest in Southern Germany so I was concerned if a heat pump really could bring our water up to a minimum of 50C. 60 or 70c is brilliant! We have an 11000 litre water cistern in the garden so I'm looking to see if the heat pump can get its warmth from that. Thanks again for your informative videos!
I have a quite large 4 bedroom detached house with an Ecoforest 9kw ground source heat pump located in the garage. he central heating used to be an oil boiler with a hot water tank fed by a storage tank in the loft and microbore. Some of the microbore was taken out when the heat pump was installed but a lot remains. My system is now mixed with some microbore, some 15mm and some underfloor heating. The radiators were resized and it all works very well.
Great video. I went straight to the comments with my popcorn and I was disappointed. Clearly the truth is starting to prevail over the mis and disinformation!
No mention of improved comfort levels in your home though?
Give it time. They’ll turn up.
time to get a new batch of popcorn!
We've had our pump for almost two years and are just about used to it! You mentioned you get your hot water up to 72c. Ours only manages 48c. Our installers said this was standard. The only time our water is above 60 is when surplus from our roof heats it. Perhaps I'll ask our supplier when the system is serviced next month.
Heat pumps that use R32 or R410a are limited to about 55C. R290 ones, which are very common now are able to do 70C+. You may have an immersion if you want higher than what the heat pump can provide or for anti-legionella. But that's only for taking it from the maximum the heat pump can achieve to the desired temperature.
I was lucky enough to have an ASHP fitted 4 years ago as a case study for OVO energy who were fitting them to existing housing stock to see how they perform.
I have an averagely built 1960s semi detached bungalow, 1980s double glazing, 70mm cavity walls with blown insulation and 300mm loft roll. They replaced 2 (out 7) radiators for larger ones, others retained. Heat pump is nigh on silent just outside my bedroom. Cost to run is virtually the same as the gas boiler it replaced, slightly cheaper but not enough to notice.
People that say they done work in existing houses without massive upgrades are wrong.
*obviously insulate first where possible for easy wins.
However, the comfort is FAR better than it was with the gas boiler, it’s always just an even, comfortable heat compared to peaks and troughs of heat you get as the boiler runs, cuts out then kicks in again.
My 12-ish year old Mitsubishi 8.5kw 'only' goes down to a minimum consumption of about 750w plus the pumps. So about 900w or so in total. It spends so much of it's time at that minimum output power that I'll probably save quite a bit when it comes to swapping it. I'd really like a new shiny Vaillant unit like yours, but no grant for me obviously!
My parents were a nightmare to get trained on how to work their system, because they were acting as if it was a regular boiler, and were only putting it on for an hour here or there. Getting my mum to leave the thermostat alone was a nightmare.
I am happy that this wonderful technology works so well for you if its sold appropriately planned and installed it should be great. We have it st work in our metal box of a building the air/ ventilation exchange dude of it seems to work fairly well though it seems to be controlled centrally upstairs so we don't get to choose our room temp.
There are some radiators around but am not sure how they are integrated into the system as I have never felt any heat emanating from any I have access to.
Likely that the quality of the company you buy from is as important as the equipment.
PSA: Avoid the 9kW Daikin where possible. The compressor noise is very noticeable and it can’t modulate below a 1kW input. (The 8kW is much better if you can push for it and can modulate down to 300w input)
Thanks Andy. Best regards Martin
I had a survey done by octopus for a heat pump and unfortunately the Valiant was too loud to go outside due to the regulations and the Cosey 6 used gas that was not allowed near any of my brick air vents. (which are dotted all around the house) so ended up disappointed.
I have the same Vaillant 5kW HP as you and concur with everything you’ve said. It’s not silent, but it’s not noisy, definitely quieter than the gas boiler it replaced. The house is consistently warmer than it used to be, and it’s incredibly efficient. The last 4 weeks has averaged 7.5 kWh per day for heating and hot water. The same period last year when we were on Gas used an average of 40kWh per day. I have battery storage, charged overnight on Intelligent Octopus at 7p, the total cost of heating and hot water for October was £10.85.
Oh, and the wife has gained an additional cupboard in the Kitchen where the boiler used to be!
Interesting. Could I ask what battery you have and do you have solar?
@ Yes, I have 4.7kW of Solar, 1 x 8.2 and 1 x 9.5kW GivEnergy Batteries. Solar contributed next to nothing in October, one of the worst months I’ve ever had!
@@chrisrowe22 thanks! I’ve had a quote from octopus for a heat pump. I’m on intelligent octopus for car charging.
From what you say it seems as though heat pump + battery would be a viable solution even without solar?
Love the content as always
Would like to hear more about ground source heat pumps too
My current house cannot get to 21C in 6 hours when its under 5C outside unless I have my boiler set to above 75C. Its very drafty and poorly insulated. I'd estimate it loses 15kW at 21C. Your house is losing between 3-5 kW, maybe less, thats why you can use a heatpump. I'd suggest If you used the immersion heater you would not notice the difference in electric usage, especially if you have low off-peak.
I guess you have had one of these conversations. I mention I have a heat pump and someone spiels out all the myths. They cost a fortune, you will be cold all the time, etc. Each one I say no to. Maybe even show a monthly energy bill, I have solar, a heat pump and time shift batteries, so my bills are comfortably low. The response is "that is all made up, I know the truth, you must be lying" and off they go in a huff. Personally I do not care what they have or do. Why do they have to convert me away from what to me is super affordable and comfortable? Very strange.
thinking of getting a heat pump in the future. how many kwh/day does it consume for you in the coldest months?
Best to watch the heat pump videos on the channel. It’s all in there.
Very timely. It's really cold around here today, at 6oC.
Had me worried there for a moment. I read that as 60C rather than 6ºC.
I would really like an ASHP but before that happens a few things need to change. Firstly the rules on where a heat pump can be sited in the UK needs reform, secondly the 4:1 difference in the UK price of electricity/gas needs to come down and finally my wife has to be persuaded.
Time of day tariff would change a lot of that.
The ratio has come down in a way. I used to pay a tadge over 6p per KW for gas. I pay 7p per KW for electricity at night and in reality all day as well thanks to sizable time shift battery. So for me the ratio as near as dam it is 1:1.
Unless you have a Scandinavian standard insulation build ( then it won't matter anyway), better to use an on demand high temperature fuel ( oil, gas) system. Then you can subsidise this with export solar / cheap rate battery energy via say Octopus export at 15p / Kwh rather than use valuable solar etc energy to subsidise an expensive inefficient low temperature , always on , hard winter incompatible heat exchanger system. Humid UK winters are more prone than dry cold Scandinavian ones to heat exchanger iceup and fan seizure. After ice-up, until you manually defost with tepid water you are using expensive straight electric heating without any heat exchanger advantage. Ice-up/ fan seizure eventually causes the fan system to distort and become noisy for you and the neighbours. EVM was right in one regard, a heating engineer is needed to support or otherwise his statements here.
As usual a great video
2 small questions for you, do you run thermostatic valves on your radiators and do you run the heating on timers to turn off the heating when you don't really need it, during the day when you may not be there or during the night? Oh one more, do you have different radiator water circuits for different areas of the house, i.e. upstairs and downstairs to turn them on and off during different times of the day?
Advice generally is to use TRVs to prevent a room overheating, or to slightly reduce the heat in unoccupied rooms - not heating them at all is not recommend. With the programmer you never turn it off unless you are away for multiple days, you just set the temperature back a few degrees during the day/night. If you have variable cost electricity you might programme it to set back the temperature a few hours before the cheaper electricity to try and shift your usage a little.
Another brilliant video thank you
For anyone on electric radiators (see Mr EVs last video where he's spending £21 /day and seeing 4-7kw when the electric radiators are on then RUN very fast to buy a heat pump! Electric radiators are 100% efficient. Heatpumps 300-450% efficient typically
So I'm in Thailand and was looking forward to downloading this and not an option! I'll have to listen to something else while I'm the boat later, gutted!
Good info
It is not silent, it is a Vaillant.
Octopus are fitting the cosy 6 next month with the grant and the 250 off offer last month when we ordered means its cost me 250 quid to have installed.
What I wonder is why are they so expensive even with a massive grant in the UK they still cost a lot more than air conditioning units which are very similar technologies. When trying to get a ashp for our home it was cheaper to install a multi split ac unit and a hot water tank than an ashp. which had a grant how is that possible?
I've got 8 rooms in my house if I was to install an air-to-air multi split, and then deal with the refrig pipes and condense water in all 8 rooms it would cost a fortune. In 10 years when something broke I'd probably have to rip every single part out and start again.
@@edc1569 Not saying air conditioning units are better or worst, the point I am making is a 5Kw Ac unit will cost somewhere in the regions of £1000 a 5kw ashp for radiators will be around £4000. Yet the technology is very similar and the makers of both are generally the same companies eg Samsung, Vaillant, Mistubishi, LG etc. Not to mention a hot water tank for an ASHP is also more expensive than a regular. The installation cost are also seemingly much more expensive. To me it seems the grant is keeping the prices much higher than they should be.
My issue with heat pumps are the noise they make, fine when they are new but after a few years they do get more noisy, the fan starts to rattle, the casing will rattle. Now my experience is from AC units which are effectively the same but working the other way round. My experience comes from when I had a Villa in Florida, the AC unit and the pool pump heater sat on the side of our property that had no windows and no near neighbours so the noise didn’t bother us or the neighbours as they were 100mtrs away.
Now in the UK your neighbours are generally fairly close, in fact in most terms very close. The noise these units will make after a few years will inevitably start to cause problems with near neighbours, that alone would cause me to not have one of these units installed.
You’re comparing a cheap AC unit probably badly sited with a heat pump.
No they’re not the same installation.
@@ElectricVehicleManWe are not talking about a cheap AC unit, quite frankly I have never came across any outside AC unit mounted on a concrete plinth that was 5 years old and didn’t rattle like some bag of bolts in a tin can. I can assure you that yours will be no different in a few years, you will spend your spare time squeezing bits of rubber all over the casing to cut down the rattles and possibly looking for some kind of replacement fan with nylon blades instead of the metal ones. Sorry, but Be assured it will happen.
@@brianstevenson9967 If you think an AC unit is the same as this then I ain’t arguing.
Neither is my neighbour with his 8 year old heat pump. 🤦♂️
@@brianstevenson9967 The other thing to bear in mind is that inverter heat pumps aren't that common in the US. In the UK and Europe they are basically standard. The US seem to have a lot of single stage / two stage heat pumps. So they will often be a lot more noisier. Especially when starting up.
The weather over the two weeks will drop and snow 🌨️ about 4 inches expecting. Please track energy over that time and how often it uses the secondary heating and what kWh over that time and what a typical bill at normal rate it would be
There is no secondary heating.
And I’ve a full years usage in the channel.
Heat pumps are great if the house it’s serving is as thermally efficient as possible (and of course, has the space to accommodate the hot water cylinder) which is why todays heating engineers should properly design a low temp system and advise on up spec’ing the thermal efficiency of the property.
A house with good thermal efficiency will last a life time and should be the very first thing attended to before any heating system is decided upon.
Ultimately, you barely want to turn your heating on.
Great U values, Solar, solar batteries and heat pumps are def the way forward in my opinion… it all just needs to be refined in to one product as all of the different tech means there’s more to maintain and more to go wrong… which is the caveat… on top of the costs of the installs 😂
Something that's never mentioned is that you are making a huge financial investment in your property. Which is a consideration if you ever want to or need to move house move house. Not everyone will want to buy a house with a heat pump. Until they become the norm.
Are there any heat pumps that work for a second-floor 2-bedroom flat like mine currently using a gas combi boiler? - also I would have a problem with a hot water cylinder location unless it could go in the attic.
Heat Geeks have just developed a mini-cylinder that goes in the same cupboard that your gas boiler used to live in. Looks to be plenty of water for a shower in a flat.
It is certainly possible to mount a heat pump on brackets, up high. How high is the question - but it can be done.
All that tech, and you only save £500 per year.... Factor in the installation cost and the interest on the loan to instal.... Would stop me proceeding with a heat pump, it would take years just to break even...
great. nice one mate. thanks for all that carbon dioxide ur pumping into the air to avoid breaking even.
We have no battery . with octopus agile and ashp we're a few hundred quid better off plus 100quid standing charge saved getting rid of gas. So it will be the same life time cost as a combi and will save 30 tonnes of co2 emission in its life.
The problem is sellers doing grant gouging that is definitely holding me back, I’ll come back in a few years time when they decide to get real on prices.
@@DarrenWhittington even with that, losing a £7500 grant will only make it more expensive for you.
@@ElectricVehicleMan less cowboys though who will just go bankrupt and disappear when the grant runs out.
had my heat pump a few months now. Most frustrating thing is how long it takes to heat the house. go from 17c to 20c takes around 5 hours
Then it's set up wrong. Get your installer back to set it up on weather compensation, so it does stable state heating. You are wasting money by killing efficiency if you're regularly trying to heat from 17C to 20C.
That's why you're supposed to leave it running 24/7 - low and slow. If you're trying to use it like an old-fashioned gas boiler then, I'm afraid, you're doing it wrong. I don't know whether you have been badly advised or just cannot bring yourself to trust the advice - but leave it running all the time, it will not cost you a great deal more and you will be comfortable. You should be able to then knock a few degrees off your circulation temperature, which will reduce your bill, negating any extra cost.
Also, if you don't already have more efficient radiators, you should definitely have those fitted, it will really help. If you're on single panels, go double, with double convectors. I am still on a gas boiler but I have adopted the "low and slow" approach in my own home. Some rooms have K2 radiators, others have 6-foot tall units, very elegant. My living room has 2 of them and it's very cosy at 21-22 celsius all the time.
Needs reprogramming then. Nothing wrong with the tech, the issue is the implementation.
Thanks
The biggest barrier to heat pump uptake is the 4:1 ratio of electricity to gas prices. With the poor COP rating when heating the hot water tank, anyone with a very well insulated home will find the total COP for heating and hot water drops well below 4, making it uneconomical. At least that's what mine worked out at. Heating got a SCOP of 4.21, but water had a SCOP of 1.75, so total SCOP is 3.1.
My scop for my water is 2.9.
DHW accounts for far less than heating.
Do you use your immersion heater?
As for price, a tariff changes that completely. Especially when all my hot water is done at 7p electric price.
@@ElectricVehicleMan The DHW SCOP was calculated using the heatpunk website, and that calculated 1.75 with a DHW storage temp of 50, so a flow temp of 55. The problem is that our heating is mostly used to heat the DHW, as our home is so well insulated the demand for space heating is very low. So DHW accounts for a higher proportion of total demand. And the calculations were done for an occupation rate of only 2 people. With more people, DHW demand would be even higher.
What we need is a more efficient way of providing hot water. For newer, super insulated homes, a heat pump costs more to run than a gas boiler, as most of the demand is for hot water, not space heating.
Our system scop is 3 for hot water at 55c and 5.1 on the heating. Full UFH throughout. Run off 20kW battery at 7pkWh
@@tarbat The website is wrong. I’m getting 2.9 and it’s set to 53c. And that’s all at night when it’s less efficient (but cheaper).
You’re basing it on flawed data. What I get is very common. 1.75 for 50c is ridiculously low.
@@richardcorns8553 Maybe the heatpunk website is a bad website for getting an idea about whether a heat pump is economical or not. It came highly recommended from other heat pump experts.
Does it make a lot of noise when starting up and how long does it take to heat your tank
It doesn’t start up in any different way to just running.
45mins to refill I’d say from completely empty.
@ Thanks I’ve just had a heatpump fitted and it’s having some issues taking hours to try and heat a 180ltr tank and failing to get to 50 and making an extreme amount of noise heating is also cycling on and off and taking hours to raise temp by 1 degree and again is very noisy and cop of just 1.2. Installers are looking into it so hopefully it’s nothing to serious
@@axelc8611 what’s your make and model?
What’s the heat curve set to?
@ it’s an octopus cosy 6 low flow temp is set at 37 and high at 57 they’ve removed the option to change the flow temperatures from the app since i looked. They are now suspecting it’s a faulty heatpump but waiting to hear back as they are monitoring it remotely
@@axelc8611 The Cosy 6 uses R290 so will definitely heat the tank to 50, so something is not working properly. It should be able to heat to 60 though no point in going that high except for a Legionnaires cycle if you have that set.
The White board knows all...😉
Think your electrician forgot their cable clips, oops.
What is the high pitch ringing I can hear on the video?
Tinnitus. might want to get it checked out.
Prob your speakers.
I edit with headphones and there’s no ringing.
Do you sell "All Hail white board of truth" t-shirts?😅
Yes, they are noisy. Maybe not the first year, but it just get worse
Mine is 4 years old. Still all but silent.
My previous one that was about 15 years old was still very quiet up to the day it "died". It didn't actually die, just ended up not being able to heat as well when the temperature drop compared to how it was able to in previous years.
Cheaper to run than a hot tub 😅
10:33 i think the editor forgot something
Forgot your graph ;-)
@@garrickdarts which graph?
@@ElectricVehicleMan The one that you call out in the video - you say that you will put in the usage graph of your heatpump for December 17th but no graph appears on screen that I could see, anyway.
@@ElectricVehicleMan th-cam.com/video/Z8HdDy5hsI4/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rqLbiBihPheR_fR-&t=624
@@garrickdarts Balls!
@@ElectricVehicleMan lol.. link an image of it in a pinned comment?
Hot press! 😜
Another straight-talking, partially-forgetting-something episode from EVM 🙂
What was that then?
What's the car?
Mk1 TT V6 Roadster
I asked the other day as it bugging me
Not being able to recognise it from that angle how about a video on that as it looks a beaut
@@Mark-sw5zi There’s this:
th-cam.com/video/ltB0-B3PpMM/w-d-xo.html
A street full of heat pumps and I think you would notice the noise and the boilers are internal so don't think the noise is comparable and no I'm not anti heat pumps!
I like the idea of a heat pump, apart from a water tank.. , having to have new radiators.. and costs involved to change.. from gas. So if the three above are solved.. I’d get one. They’ve got to make them fit to your existing pipe work and radiators.. until they do that they’re not viable for most…
Missing the point.. bigger radiators (if you need them) would reduce your gas usage as well, as you'd be able to run it at a lower temperature.
I will state aging. I would never ever recoup the outlay of a heat pump in my lifetime. I recently looked at a house with a heat pump and solar panels, two car chargers in a double garage. It had been reduced as it had been on sale for a while. A similar house without all that had just sold for more. The owner could not understand why his house had not sold, when he had spend thousands on the technology.
According to the 2 estate agents that live on my street, it’s the opposite. The fact his hasnt sold won’t be because of a heat pump!
Them pesky EV chargers, who would want to buy a house with that convenience! lol
@@ElectricVehicleMan Why is it then? I did not buy it. It did have a wood burner though and sea coal was available not far away to pick up, which he informed me he did. Still for sale. I may put in an offer but I would fit an oiled fired boiler.
@@keithdenton8386 Yes the house hasn’t sold because he’s got solar panels.
Give me strength.
Where is your refinery?
Haha you WEF muppets, you've clearly been convinced a lie by big Heat Pump, you'll forever be paying money for all that free energy. I am truly free and heat my house with my own energy stored in my own oil tank from my own oil pump pulled out of my own oil well. What if you have a power cut - I have a hand pump for my oil system and water circulator. hahahahahah
Go away, come back in 5 yrs. This tech is too young.
Been in Scandinavia for decades. How long have you had access to a fridge/freezer, it's the same basic technology.
Clearly not watch the video.
@@AnotherPointOfView944 haha. Nice joke. Tech older than you. 😂
How long running to heat water TANK.We did away with 20 years ago. Rads will never be anywhere as hot as Gas Boiler. You need rads 25/ 30% larger to compensate. Anything running on ELECTRIC IS EXPENSIVE. You are running a Electric Fridge Compressor. Do not fall fo all this BULL SHIT . Look at the price of ELECTRICITY IN NORWAY AND SWEDEN WAY BELOW US UK. Your GAS BOILER TURN IT ON HOT WATER HEAT INSTANT. QED.
Wow people like you exist.
QED indeed.
I love the idea that scorching radiators, and that crappy musky stuffy smell you get every November from that is an upside.
So far in November:
Transmission cost per kWh: 0.307SEK / 2.2p
Tax per kWh: 0.535SEK / 3.9p
Average supply price (I've paid) so far in November per kWh: 0.943SEK / 6.8p
Total: 12.9p/kWh
OVO have a Heat pump tariff that's 15p/kWh, and other tariffs even out at about the same. So, y'know totally "WAY BELOW".
@@GrahamNewman-mq7gr LET'S SHOUT. THAT MEANS IT'S TRUTH!