5 MISTAKES to avoid when installing Solar ❌
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 พ.ค. 2024
- Today, we're diving into the top 5 solar installation mistakes that are all too easy to make. Even we're guilty of them sometimes!🫣 So grab a drink, settle in, and discover how to sidestep these common mishaps. 😎
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⏱️Timestamps
00:00 - Introduction
00:40 - Looking behind the scenes
03:31 - The first mistake
04:45 - The second mistake
05:38 - The easy third mistake
06:28 - The fourth mistake
08:53 - The final mistake
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My main concern would be:
My loft gets so hot in Summer, I would not want to install either Batteries or an Inverter in that kind of heat, conversely, it gets freezing cold in Winter.
Yeah that's actually much better reason. Unless your loft is isolated of course but those kinds of temperatures would be a battery killer in summer.
Unlikely. Batteries generally get to about 35 to 40 degrees in summer. No.issues for lifepo4 technology
When the Loft is so hot and you can't stand to be up there, its too hot for volatile chemistry, and the associated electronics.@@atkt62
LiFePO4 likes to operate at 0°C to 45°C. What temperature do you think the battery might reach if the loft ambient is 40C ?
That's what I was about to comment. Been in 50+ degree lofts before, you literally can't breathe.@@Michael-xs5ef
It's great to see you admitting that these are mistakes that you or anyone else could have made. I seem tradesmen seeing the slightest mistake and ripping into 'whoever' did this like they are the worst cowboy ever.
Everyone can make these simple mistakes and we won't hide from the fact we have made some of these before.
The problem I see is that it gets HOT up there! The last place you want inverters or batteries are places that get HOT.
Good point about the plastic distribution board but is the same argument not applicable with any junction box or isolator that has connections within, so for example should the dc / ac isolators be metal instead of plastic. There is no point in going metal for some stuff and not for everything?
To my mind lithium batteries are best installed outside or in an outbuilding like a detached garage in case they catch fire. Unlikely but in a loft it would be devastating.
I agree entirely, and I have a couple of PW2s. They’re outside, on a brick wall with a 20mm “fire-proof” panel behind and above it. A loft seems insane.
Fire risk depends on the particular chemistry of the Li batteries - a generalisation like yours is unwarranted. LFP batteries don't catch fire, but NMC (as used by Tesla) are more prone to thermal runaway with trauma when fully-charged, which is why they have their fancy liquid cooling system.
I’m just having solar fitted so this has been very useful so I can check as they fit it. Thanks so much.
I run my DC cables in containment then place DC stickers on them. Looks neater :)
You had me thinking about the installation we've had done about 2 years ago. They seem to have made few if any of those mistakes, and certainly the roofers were very professional. My only complaint would have been poor placement of the earth rod. The inverter (DC load balancers are on the panels), Powerwall and Gateway are all mounted outdoors in a reasonably sheltered spot.
It's funny actually that british regulations dictate a metal consumer unit, while here in the Netherlands its always plastic, partly due to the fact that every electrical installation should be double isolated and that plastic obviously is non conductive. A big nono in the UK, completely fine elsewhere.. ;)
Was fine here too until some busybody fire chief decided to make a name for himself.
The reason is for fire safety, not electric shock protection
I'd say its fire safety coz the British make shit connections with everything 😂😂😂
It looks a good install just a few thing that need sorting hopefully they will come back and sort it
We have 70 year old roof tiles that naturally have a 5 mm gap underneath each tile. Still dry, butt the attic is full of wasps in summer. Great for fitting the DC cables through the gaps though. Works awesome. Although I stuck them in a hollow hose to reduce grinding.
DC cables in containment and Kopex, labelled with dc live tags (metal and plastic cable ties for premature collapse), make sure all MC4s are tied to panels to avoid being sat in water with string ends being correctly labelled with idents. Panels should have 20mm gap around them and optimisers should be raised to allow sufficient air flow. Test for voltage (around 1 volt per optimiser/ panels without vary) test for insulation resistance > 40Mohms per square meter of panels. Note that panels should be torque tested to 16Nm using torque wrench. Always use metal where you can and fireboard to mount inverters/ fuse board isolators etc. Appropriate cable size, fusing and inverter should be sized according to size per KWH. Isolation points for AC and DC is essential. Inverters and batteries should have necessary air flow ( generate a lot of heat together). Install generation meters for consumers to see consumption/production. Also please please ask customers if they want to have bird/rodent protection as it’s a bonus to your price and will keep the system from faulting. You never want to go back to a job, unfortunately there’s a lot of cowboys out there that will take the money and leave. Do a proper job and be proud of it!
DiYer here. I have some sympathy with some 'cowboys'. So many customers want the cheapest job. Depends where you are, but, if every tradesperson chasing jobs at unrealistic rate, they can't afford to take the extra time to do a diligent job and they certainly can't afford to come back. Likely they took cash to keep cost down. Customers endanger themselves, their families, and their neighbours. Some even get angry with me for taking extra time on my DiY or paying a higher rate for a better job! It's a weird culture we have in UK where the first pride boast self-image booster is getting something cheap rather than good.
I over-engineer whatever I do. It can sometimes be a fault in that I take longer than necessary or spend more than necessary. What did surprise me was when I prepared everything ready for the sparkie, plasterer, or whomever; offered to pay a bit more for them to do a 'job like they'd do for themselves and their parents; and they still insisted on doing it cheaper and that I didn't need it stronger, neater, or whatever. They simply couldn't switch their mindset that they absolutely had to do it as cheap as possible. Even when I had read the regulations, read guidance, seen manufacturer's specifications, etc
I was thinking about a smoke alarm in the loft after getting my givenergy battery fitted last year. I've now ordered one, thank you.
I can remember at least 3 of your solar installs where you used a similar plastic consumer unit for surge protection.
This guys an idiot, I’ve been doing solar installs for 8 years along with other electrical work and his installs are terrible 😂
This all depends on if an SPD is classed as switchgear - if not then it doesn't have to be in a non combustible enclosure. If there is any form of breaker in with the SPD enclosure then yes it definitely should be in a metal enclosure - otherwise I don't think it has to be.
@@blower1 but the argument he keeps on having “there could be a lose connection” there could also be on an SPD, yes current is drawn and an SPD doesn’t draw current but if in the event of a fault it could still cause a fire and completely invalidates his arguement, as for DC surge I think it should be inside of a metal box due to them being “pass through” surges meaning there is always current and voltage present the whole time there is sunlight and the inverter is generating.
@@TheSilverlemons The power generation / solar PV side of BS7671 is a bit lacking, I agree they should be in a metal enclosure - just don't think they 'have' to be. The same could be argued for isolators with plastic housings - are these not switchgear?...the reg's are full of contradictions, CU's must be metal but a 100 amp main isolator could have a chocolate enclosure.
@@blower1 I completely agree, the laws, regulations and all of the electrical literature we have to follow is so archaic it is unreal, reminds me of the Highway Code, seems to have been written in the 1500s ahah
Smoke detectors I would go with Homematic IP, they are wirless last 5 years and are paired one goess off they all go off. Also great system to combine with heating control, home automation and intrusion alarm. We have used the system for 8 years started with the heating actuators and thermostats, we saved 450€ the first year on heating. The expanded with smoke alarms and intrusion detection
Your work is good I like it
❤
Artisan at it's best. Simple, informative and no fluff. Welcome back! 😀
Hey, thanks!
What material are those bushing couplers? I do hope everything in that trunking is double insulated! Or is every coupler bonded?
Is the mains supply cable from that switched fuse downstairs to submain in the loft run in SWA (can't see the SWA glands on both ends)? And if not - doesn't it need RCD protection at the origin running through the building?...
what worries me is that:
1. there is no T1/T2 surge arrester in the DC installation as far as I could see - these not required in England?
2. also u guys not required to protect emergency personnel (fireman) from the DC part of the System? In Austria we must use metal conduits, connected to ground at both ends, for the DC wires where they enter the building right to the inverter - this also solves the "cutting a non TV cable" problem you mentioned
3. i dont know how hot it gets in that place, but an attic is the last place you want the inverter and batteries in due to the high temps during summer which in the best case only degrades the effectiveness of the system, worst case causes damage and degrades the lifespan
It would also be interesting if all the panes and rails are properly connected to ground, as well as how they ran the cables underneath the panels. Many make the misttake to have the cables touch the rooftitles which will damage them over time.
And make sure that the zipties are actually UV resistant - many dont know about that.
A grave mistake many installers make is that they dont "loop back" the end of the DC line below the panels.
Idk. how to properly translate "spannungs schleife" to english....
This is how NOT to do it:
(+)--PANEL--PANEL--PANEL--(-)
This is how to do it:
(+)--PANEL--PANEL--PANEL--|
(-)------------------------------------------|
Another common mistake many installers make is that they use the MC4 connector that comes with the panel to connect it with the DC cables going to the inverter.
MC4 is not a real standard, as a result there is variation between brands and that causes burned connectors when you plug together MC4 connectors of different brands.
This is why you should always cut the connectors on the first and last panel, put on your own which you use to connect the system to the inverter.
Side note:
What is up with the sticker madness? XD
Good documentation is essential, but all those stickers just look like a confusing mess.
Also those "consumer units"...... it looks like how we did it here back in the 60s. Is that still the standard today in the UK and these are all old buildings? XD
Good video. The install looks nice and neat. I love a bit of conduit and cable clipping. My PV invertor was installed in 2010 so looks like I need to think about a smoke alarm in the attic ...
Yeah nobody bothered back then. Nor did they mark the DC cabling. (I elected not to put mine in the loft to give the inverter a much more temperate life inside the heated volume).
Tysm i will never do this mistakes ever again!
Glad we helped 👍
Most solar inverters these days are of a transformerless design, ie no isolation between the PV and AC sides. Even without sunlight the PV wiring can still be hazardous. Sure untrained people shouldn't be poking power wiring but if a person can confuse PV wiring with coax, poke it they will and they won't be thinking 'ooo, I better open the inverter breaker'. In my opinion any warning labels attached to PV wiring should not limit the hazard by including any reference to daylight.
The main issue I've had with batteries in the loft is cold gating in the winter , but there is nowhere else in the house that they wouldn't be taking up too much space.
Plastic enclosure regulation depends on country by country. The DC side of the solar circuit must be isolated from ground. In my country 1000V solar certified self-extinguishing plastic box must be used. That provides protection class II.
My additional two issues are
the weight of that battery within the loft, that's a GIV 8.2 that's 100Kg for a start
why an inverter in a loft, when the time it's working at the hardest the ambient temp in the loft would be high.
200+ solar installs 1 call back supply overvoltage from the grid.
Nice video and content as always 🇨🇮😎
Glad you enjoyed it
Do dectites in the UK provide a protection around the cable as it passes through the hole in the tile? Or provide a weather proof seal above the tile, with no protection for the cable as it passes through the hole in the tile? I've used thousands of dectites for copper pipe roof penetrations installing solar hot water panels.
Good content, enjoyed this one
👍👍
Is a smoke detector a MCS requirement when battery storage is located in the loft space?? Or is it only recommended? Thanxs for your reply
Generation meter fitted in CU in the loft of a house. I bet that is nice an easy to get to for the old couple. I bet the generation meter is not spec for a hot loft. The smoke alarms on all floors including the loft with solar Pv inverter or battery need to be interlinked. I think its in BS5839 part 6. Its a Code of Practice the judge can beet you with as BS7671 makes several references to it
I always find that tiles over felt a bit odd. Certainly not very strong looking. In Scotland all roofs are sheeted in ply or OSB before felt or roofing paper. This has been regs for many decades. Counter and tiling battens go over the felt or paper, then tiles are double nailed and clipped.
It's a fair bit more wet and windy in Scotland. Bitumen felt is no long UK regs either it's now a lightweight breathable waterproof membrane to let trapped moisture out of the attic space.
An Ei rf smoke alarm there would be a good option one in the attic and 1 downstairs in the hall battery operated and linked by rf no wiring a 10 year lithium battery one goes off the 2nd goes off. Not sure about uk but in Ireland all new builds require a smoke in all bedrooms and a heat in kitchen
Hi thanks, very interesting, I was just thinking, rather than any that stuff in the loft ,if you have space could all that electrical equipment be put In garage or outside brick built cabinet, as I would not really want that up there in my loft as your way too late when spoke alarm goes , would it be better monitored outside, if we can have all the wheelie bins laying around,must be a small place to put that mini sub station! But I'm a joiner
How about the bonding of the inverter I can’t see any bonding apart from the battery
mmm yes I don't have a smoke alarm in my loft. Good points. Apparently batteries are not allowed in lofts in Australia.
Great video cus! Ill send you a pic of the install im on at the mo 👌🏼
Glad you enjoyed and certainly do
1:35 Christmas pudding on the shelf.. still 105 days to go 😂
😂
Always keep mine for a year. And towards Christmas start feeding it.
how about some automatic fire supression? MABO has some cheap (100-120pounds) in a neat mount.
Could anyone give me the regulation that states smoke detectors need to be installed in lofts for inverters?
I work for a company where loft installations is fairly common practice. Myself and a few other installers aren’t keen on it so this specific reg would help our case
So why don't you recommend or install inverts or battery in the roof space? Other than the need for a smoke detector and access (if the roof is fully boarded with ladder installed)
Noticed that there are three elevations for solar panels, assum E,S,W but only two feeds (streams) to inverter,
idealy thats three streams so unless optimisers used on part of the roof installation thats mistake number 6.
Customer is not getting full benefit from 2 sets of panels.
But then most UK solar solutions are to meet G98, so single inverter for 2 streams (2 elevations) max so its pretty restrictive
I'd much rather have all those gubbins in the loft and have a smoke alarm. Absolutely agree with the cable labels. Is the keepout area only to do with QR code, or thermal etc?
Another mention for Dektite 🎉
PV ultra cable would be a nice touch instead of yet more stickers.
Coloured red and white properly too.
It’s brown and grey now. In the IET
I thought DC...Red & Black....AC Brown & Gray??
Batterys in the loft above the insulation won't be operating optimally far too cold and far too hot probably safe but not efficient.
Not sure about the Henly block comment as the single pole ones have top & bottom entry. Also isn't the smoke alarm in loft only a recommendation, not a regulation
I work in the Netherlands, what strikes me is that I don't see a 6mm equalization earth cable from the roof. that could be dangerous if someone touches the panel field. I also notice that the DC cables from the roof are not in 2 separate tubes to reduce the risk of arc flash. I know that Solar Edge has arc flash detection. but I understand from them that this is disabled by default.
Surely a plastic consumer unit is safer against shocks....like you said connection come loose and then you goto open the consumer unit and get a massive shock.!!!??
Clearance around inverter too small (SE recommendations) and QR code for SE Inverter not accessible without removing Inverter cover.
It was definitely too small and not enough space allowed
5.10 onwards, a loft in a Building Built before 1982 I believe by Building Standards is considered outside of the Dwelling and Needs a Weather Proof Dist. Board as Seen an Provided. One has to consider many aspects in Planning New Technology in Old Electrical Installations.... Did you Hear about the Thatch Roof that Had a Solar Panel Installed... Burnt Down in 2 Months.
My daughters neighbour’s house caught on fire due to inverter failure in the loft. 70 year olds with health issues. Husband now in a care home and wife living with relatives. Insurance company taking a long time to resolve. 😢
Garage or undercover outside?
You just gave me idea to modify smoke alarm to trip RCD to cut electricity in case of fire and also if you can't hear smoke alarm you will see power go off.
Are those galv couplings earthed 😯
When did the regs for a smoke alarm in attic with an inverter come in?
Inverters in loft is fine, no way should a battery be up there though. As regards to the smoke alarm you forgot to mention that it has to be an interconnected one that connects to at least one other inside the main part of the house otherwise there’s a chance that should it go off and someone is downstairs they won’t hear it.
Good info.
Glad it was helpful!
That loft looks just like mine (in terms of timber, membrane type and construction). Clearly the same vintage if not the same builder.
My solar installation was done in 2014, Inverter in the loft (no batteries in those days!) and there's no smoke alarm. I assume I should install one?
However, it does have a switch to disconnect the DC from the panels to the Inverter, which the one you show does not (presumably the one below the inverter is AC). As MC4 connectors aren't supposed to be made or broken under power, and that looks like they go straight into the inverter, isn't that a Bad Thing?
this needs a follow up to see how it was fixed
Wow I did not know that about consumer units, I wondered why my new one was metal, every days a school day :)
Glad you learned something new!
All fair points - I'm particularly against inverters and more importantly battery storage in a loft....the summer heat will reduce battery life over time and result in severe degradation within 10 years. You could also find the system shuts down on hot days - it can easily hit 40c or more in a UK loft.
Very good points there
The Plastic box is new for me, but I'm in a different country of course. Here metal is only always in specific environments, as the tend to you know, become electrified. Also, "Plastic" here is a LSOH type of plastic that is stopping it self from burning, creates low smoke, and zero toxic gasses, like any cable installed in Industrial environments.
Good video, keep it up ;-)
Yeah, the UK switched to recommending/allowing (I forget which) plastic boxes in the 17th regulations in 2008 (or maybe it was allowed in earlier 16th regs (1991) or never said anything specifically and they just became common/cheaper sometime around then, and thus were fitted by default in most installs), then 8 years later reverted to requiring metal in the 18th/3rd amendment 17th (Jan 2016). As you say plastic reduces shock risk, but metal reduces fire risk. There were more serious fires after plastic boxes became standard, which is why it got changed)
@@xxwookey interesting to hear / read. As said, in BE and AT we're not using this, as we need to use a "plastic" called LSZH-FR (Low Smoke Zero Halogen Flame Retardant), so not your standard PVC types. I do see the benefits from metal enclosures, as they indeed not burn and are getting adopted more and more, but there is still the risk of getting shocked, so you now only see them in houses where they're placed in the wall (build in), or in basements / Garages as standing enclosures. In apartments it's not allowed as of now, because all metal enclosures need to be earthed, what can be an issue with certain tenants, but that is a whole different topic all together, one that I can write books about............ Long story short, happy that I learned something new, even if it's in the UK :D
If a rewire is £30k I don't even want to know the cost of adding solar. If the felt is crumbling I personally would want that done first and maybe new tiles.
Why put tiles… just use the panels as the roof
I have my solar install next week and makes me nervous
I thought batteries and inverters should ideally be within 3 metres of the house consumer unit. So how is it possible to install it all in the loft?
There is no excuse for not doing a compliant job, in fact it is negligent and if certified then fraudulent as well. It is good that the installation was inspected but how many will rely on the competence of the installer to get it right. This is a situation that is commonplace across the building industry simply because no-one inspects and checks the work carried out. by highlighting the issues I hope that you have placed the seed of concern to all those seeking to have work done. With the Govt pushing quite hard for energy conservation measures like solar panels, heat pumps, EV chargers and the like I fear that the industry will employ more incompetents and we will all suffer.
whats the purpose of inverter and ct cable?
Done an install with my Uncle and that's where we realised UK solar is so far behind.
Also why are parallel connection so rare on most UK installs? Better for shading...
You would have a field day finding electrical fault finds on a cruise ship and what they turn a blind eye to!
How cold does it get in that loft during winter? If I remember correctly, this type of batteries should not be charged below 5 degrees C , I think the specs of this battery mention Charging Temp 0C to 55C
As DiYer, almost everything you said is blindingly obvious and what I have looked for and guarded against in all my DiY work. I posted before about every registered recommended electrician I've ever used being sloppy and yet badmouthing what their predecessor had done. I do have a lot of sympathy with tradespeople doing domestic work as there's always someone chasing a job with an unrealistically low price for which they cannot afford to take the time to do a job properly. Customers going with the lowest price is asking for sloppy work. However, even when I've installed the boxes and conduit with strings and they say "Electrician's dream", they still do a sloppy job so connections work loose, not labelled, etc. So I have to check what they've done and fix it. The abrasion against roof tiles, lack of labels... aagh! I do now know of a couple of diligent electricians but one is more or less retired to care for his sick wife and he can't afford all the memberships and insurances while working part-time. I've also known sparks who start out diligent but get ordered to work faster by their boss
I would like to see DC isolators and have u thought how the generation will be affected having arrays facing different directions on the same string. They will drag eachother down
SolarEdge inverters have dc isolators built into the inverter and guidance say not to add extra isolators.
And being a SE system different orientation doesn't affect generations
Solar edge uses dc to dc optimizer per solar panel, they drop to 1v when the dc cable is cut, grid power is lost or DC ark is detected, note this is fully independent from the solar edge dc to ac inverter
Also solar edge optimizers removes the shade problem so you can have a solar setup like it is on this roof (3-any sides as there is really no limit)
the optimizers also operates at a fixed dc string voltage (so the inverter can be very simple design as it only has to deal With a fixed dc voltage and no Mppt is needed, that's why it looks very small in the video,, each panel has its on mppt built into each solar edge optimizer
Only downside is if a optimizer fails it kills that panel completely and you have to get back onto the roof to remove the panel ( the optimiser should fallback to pass through mode so it shouldn't affect the other optimizers or the whole system)
I would strongly recommend having the dc to dc optimizers installed in the roof space so they can be extremely easy to replace without having to get scaffolding (they have 4 sockets 2 for the panel it's connected to and 2 for the string, they are super safe to handle due to built in safety's) but there is likely an additional cost to doing this as each solar panel will need the roof tiles adjusting to fit the 2 cables through the tiles to the optimizer in the roof space
unfortunately I am not aware of anyone putting the optimizers in the attic space (installers put them under the panel, if the installer goes bump you have to get someone out to fix it your self at your cost only the optimizer be covered under warranty)
Personally if you have a fixed single sided roof that has No shade on it, just a SMA inverter will be fine (even has shade fix that allows Dynamic mppt, older inverters would lock. The mppt to an unoptimal point most inverters made I last 10 year usually have some version of shade fix) you do lose out on per panel Monitoring and no ark or high voltage dc auto disconnect (have to use a thermal camera to check for problem panel)
Problem I have with solar edge is it almost doubles the cost of the system (the power dc optimizers can cost £50-100 per solar panel +£600 for the solar edge inverter) other issue is you need 8 for them to work (400w panels)
The regulations only require *a means of isolation*, not *an isolator*. SolarEdge inverters communicate actively with their optimisers over the DC cable; when the optimisers are disconnected from the inverter, or when the inverter is turned off, the optimisers reduce their output voltage to 1V. This is an effective means of isolation; you do not need to fit isolators to this system.
The generation meter should not be fitted in the loft space. It doesn’t comply with mcs also, it doesn’t help the client see if their system is working. Just lucky they have Solar edge I guess.
My advice to anyone is to not pay until everything is done including paperwork.
My installer was quick to quote and install, paid in full, then was a pain to get rid of scaffolding taking nearly a month and 4 months waiting for mcs certificate. Then when I tried to get my feed in tariff setup I learnt via the DNO that they didn't even fill G98 notification. It has been a complete nightmare.
My next home ill be sure to be pickier on who I get to install and be sure to set the terms where I don't pay a penny until its all done including paperwork/certificates and so on.
Strings are not enclosed in conduit?
Is it really not advised to have those in the loft? Surley that's where most end up and is the norm in the industry?
Does the solar edge have 3 mppt’s? The panels are on three aspects?
Where can I source the legislation ref smoke alarm for lofts when installing electrical equipment? It makes perfect sense but just need clarification 👌
The Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005 calls for the execution of appropriate fire safety measures. Additionally, as per BS 5839-6, especially Clause 11 (Location and siting of fire detectors), it is suggested that for certain electrical equipment in lofts, a Category LD2 system might incorporate a smoke detector within the loft space. Should a detector be chosen for this location, it should be accessible for maintenance and offer an accessible means to silence it in the event of false alarms (clauses 11.2(n) and 12.2(a) respectively).
I see all these videos from you guys with consumer units hard to access... are those still legal on new installs over there? I'm fairly certain they're not allowed on new installs in southern Europe.
Even in communist Eastern Europe in buildings that are form de 50, 60 70's they are in the hallway, above the door usually.
Wow! this customer has their Christmas Puddings already bought! :D
Oh yes!
does the inverter have 3 seperate MPP trackers? because placing 3 sets of panels with different orientations into a single MPPT will result in poor generation
It's SolarEdge, each panel has an optimizer on it so the different orientation don't matter
Omg. What an install. You are so brave to help that homeowner.
What about earthing/bonding? Any earthing to pv array!?
SolarEdge does not require earthing/bonding on PV panels/rails.
It's always funny how all these houses are like mansions and large houses and yet the electrics are always put into a tiny cupboard. What got me most in this is you were called to deal with the Solar situation, and yet surely the company that installed the system should've been the ones. Makes you think there is no warranties or guarantees and it's been done by Joe blogs down the road in his white van. Those comsumer units yes are all now metal again.
Why are you not using red for + and black for - dc , and why do you not earth the roofsystem it self to a earthrail ?
I’d much rather have a fire in the loft than in the kitchen
It's getting hot in the attic. Is this an ideal place to install electronics? I do not think so.
Given the limited space, Mirco-Inverters under the panels might be a better solution.
The customer has a west - south - east system. This can be done with three strings.
Less good to do; the west and east strings are connected in parallel.
But that's not possible because the number of modules is different in the west and east.
It's really bad to connect all three directions in series into one string.
I would install a Mains powered smoke alarm and fix the distance between the devices.
A few sticks on and Bob is your uncle.
It's solaredge so each panel has a DC optimiser which means each panel can have a different voltage on the string
equally a cold place in Winter to affect battery performance
Givenergy CT has been extended with the ultra ev cable. Against manufacturers instructions so AC inverter might not work correctly.
Indeed - with the extension length up to the loft, the EM115 meter readings must be way off. - Givenergy will not guarantee this installation.
Metal couplers earthed ?
Briliiant brilliant , ❤ these AE YT Videos , 🔌⚡☀🤔😎 welcome back , trust your in a better place now ...' strange things' , " some professionals " do I agree . Its only just the beginning of September its 30 degrees and there are posh Christmas Puddings on show , absolutely delicious we agree / conclude , but again , what's going on , thank you ... 👏👏 . G [ Chartered Engineer , Electrical / IT ] . Berkshire. 🤘☮.
People don't just come to their loft to check their electric equipment...
also there are polycarbonate (type of plastic) cases that are nonflammable just fine.Still melts but if you're at that point then well, everything inside metal box will melt too even if the box itself survives...
Exactly, you just proved his point. Nobody goes to their loft to check electrical equipment... so why put it up there? If it was installed in a more accessible part of the house, I'm sure it would get visually checked every once in a while. I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable living with an inverter and batteries in the loft, *especially* with no smoke alarms.
Plus like Jordan said, that's a pretty tidy loft, imagine if it was full of stuff? It just isn't a good idea at all, the negatives outweigh any positives by a long shot. Unless they had no choice but to install them in the loft.
@@Gobbbbb What you think normal user can "check" in electric system anyway ? "Does it look on fire ? No ? Then it is probably working". They have no knowledge to check anything in the first place.
Normal people don't look into engine bay of the car as long as it is working, same with electric systems. And all the info about inverter is in app anyway.
How often do you change oil level in your car ? I do it every 2-3 months, normal people do it either "never, mechanic does it" or "what do you mean by oil level?"
Plastic consumer units could be made of fire retardant pvc but all I ever saw are abs, pe and even f-ing polystyrene! That is criminal.
And yes, very smart to put all the disconnects as out of reach as possible.
Funny we are prohibited from putting smoke detectors in the attic, because of the dust and dirt in the attics as the manufactures state not to put them there and we have to follow the manufactures instructions to meet our code requirements. However funny enough we put the HVAC into the attic, so the gas furnaces are up there! 🤠👍 We do put heat sensors up there instead of the smoke detectors.
Not all smoke alarms are affected by dust and dirt; you're thinking of optical smoke alarms. An ionisation smoke alarm is suitable for attics, garages, utility rooms, and other areas that may be subject to environmental contamination.
@@aaronmdjones I agree, however the manufacturers state not to install them in attics or garage spaces and to use heat detectors instead at least here in the US.
@@Chris_In_Texas Yeah man, those US are so far behind, whats up with those 120V circuits? 😉
@@razvanlex One benefit is that it allows us to not have a neutral conductor on our 240V circuits! None of that nasty PEN fault stuff here for car chargers for example. Much easier to work on live circuits here with 120V! Bites a lot less when you make a mistake! 😁 I think the wire manufactures came up with the 120V so they can sell larger wire. We pretty much run all 4mm2 (12AWG) for everything as a minimum. If you want to save a little bit of money then you use 2.5mm2 (14AWG) to some circuits. Here we pretty much install 200A (@240V) load centers (consumer units) in houses as the default in new homes.
@@Chris_In_Texas But no 22kW three phase chargers for you, yes? 😀
I'm just joking, I know the differences between EU and US electrical systems. I prefer european one but I was raised with it. 2,5kW heaters, 2,4 kW kettle. Monophase.
120V bites plenty.
My house has a 100A in theory but it's limited to three phase 25A. And it's all mostly electric, using gas only for hot water since the war in Ukraine. I've switched to a 6kW heat pump.
Your videos are quite entertaining. But you have a habit of over Egging the issues. A smoke alarm is a recommendation.
The last battery I installed had an ambient temperature -10 deg to +60 deg celsius. Fine for the loft space.
I’m glad you led with the fact that you’ve been guilty of some of these in the past… like the inverters you left on shared RCDS.
I think he's just overcritical, even with his own companies work, so it's not personal towards the installer. I think Jordan strides for perfection and wants to see every job done to an extremely high standard and completely by the book.
You nailed it tbh ...
Yeah, they are already old, they can die in a fire, no problem.
@@razvanlex what a silly remark
@@davida1841 Silly comment, silly remark. It's a real fire hazard, that loft should have a smoke detector, don't you think? Even if it's only a "recommendation" in your electrical/safety code.
That's a lot of expensive equipment and work to install. No need. I put 10 panels on the roof connected to a hybrid inverter with a 16kWh battery. All done myself for £5,500. I have Octopus Agile and so I have hardly paid a penny for electricity since February
Yep. If you can get something like 400V off the roof, the hybrid inverter will run really efficiently at 240V AC.
All consumer units must meet the requirements of the IET Wiring Regulations Seventeenth Edition Amendment 3 with effect from 1 January 2016.
And a vent for the smoke
Got told on our recent BPEC Course that RCBOs shouldn’t be used as they aren’t bi directional, RCDs only?
RCBOs that support the supply on either side do exist but a lot of them are single sided, from browsing catalogues. RCDs have the same issue.
If someone could point at an bi directional one would be useful. I know Proteus does some as was looking this morning but only found a 20a one.
I use proteus 25A rcbos there bi directional.
Type 1CK25 into CEF online and its there. Click on the data sheet and it says features- bi directional 👌🏼
@@oliverfarley from where? Cef?