If you keep a 100AH AGM battery between 40% and 100% SOC you can expect around 800 to maybe 1,000 charge cycles before it's toast, and by "toast", I mean it won't hold 12.8 volts anymore. If you do the math (1280wh x .6) x 1,000 cycles you get around 768 kwh worth of storage capacity. If you keep a 100AH LFP battery between 10% and 100%, you can expect around 4,000 cycles, so (1280wh X .9) x 4,000, or 4,600 kwh worth of storage capacity. That is nearly 6 times as much total storage over the useful lifetime of the battery. It's also worth mentioning that after this many charge cycles, the storage capacity of the LFP battery will have dropped to 80% or maybe a little less, but it's NOT "toast". It is still perfectly serviceable, just at a reduced capacity. It will keep going down, but it is entirely possible to get reasonable storage out of an LFP battery for 20 years. Throughout that dramatically extended service life, you continue to get a very steady 12.5+ volts throughout the majority of the discharge curve, whereas an lead-acid battery will struggle to stay above 12 volts, as it nears end of life. Anyone still buying lead-acid batteries for anything other than cranking over a large engine or operating in very cold conditions is penny wise and pound foolish.
I bought two of the 100ahs a year ago for my RV to replace worn-out short-lived Interstate lead-acids. You know I'll be using them as supply batteries on field day.
can someone please do a head to head comparison of all the new 460ah lifepo4 batteries that are coming out? redodo bird, roamer, litime, epoch, basen, VATRER, power drag queen, etc.. thanks in advance! @@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures
Very good video it was actually nice to hear your calm no drama voice. I, convinced that the Queen batteries are the only way to go and I believe I will be going with 2 of the 200 AH's and run them parallel witch will cost me aprox 1300.00 and not sure about the 1500 inverter. I think it would be better to go at least 2000 if not 3000 on the inverter . Once again great video and thank you Sir.
Info on how to program your MPPT for this battery and battery shunt monitor. I use the EpEver TracerAN mppt and a Juntec battery monitor with 400A shunt. I have 5x 150Wp solar panels feeding the battery to a 2500W inverter 12V DC to 220V AC Overvoltage protection: 15V Undervoltage protection: 10.8V Discharging overcurrent protection: 200A Charging overcurrent protection: 200A Overpower protection: 2560W Over temp protection: 50C Low temp protection: 5C Low capacity reminder: 10% Protection recover time: 180s Protection delay: 5s Over voltage: 15V Charge limit: 14.8V Over Voltage Reconnect 14.2V Equalize voltage: Disable Boost voltage: 14.6V Float Voltage: 13.8V Boost reconnect: 13.5V Low Voltage Reconnect 12.4 Under Voltage Recover 12V Under Voltage Warning 11.6V Low Voltage Disconnect 10.8V Discharge limit: 10V
I have to park my converted ambulance this winter (temps rarely go below teens here). Should I remove my lithium iron phosphate batteries (the ones for my solar system) and keep them indoors and charged until it warms up?
nice, im currently rocking a 20ah one. xD . works good though. using it to power my xbox one s, tv and tablet. works nice. i also use it to power a lamp during the night.
I'm thinking of getting one of these for my toy hauler. My only concern is will this battery start my onboard Onan 4,000 watt generator? Most of the lithium batteries companies I have talked to say "don't use them to start engines." Thoughts?
Im trying to figure out why as good as a battery co PQ is the batter says 300 Amp but the max of the BMS is 200. Thats a non starter for me.I pay for 300 amps i want very close to 300 amps or its a no deal.
These batteries are on the cheap side, so there is a tradeoff. They are specifically designed as storage batteries for typical marine and RV devices like microwaves, fridges, lighting, etc. Thin plate pure lead batteries are still the best option for starting engines.
You can only drain lifepo4 to 20% safely without damage to cell life not 0%.. Not sure if they use larger rated cells in the battery in addition to that.from your test results it sounds that way. The built in bms should cut off voltage once you reach that 20%
Yea the BMS did shut the battery down about 7 minutes after I stopped the test, and I assume like you say that was at the 20% the BMS sees. Thank you for the comment!
No, this is incorrect. LiFePO4 is rated at full number of cycles down to 0%, which is typically 2.5V / cell these days. Fully discharging it will not damage the battery, at least not in a way that anyone would seriously consider to be damaged, ie normal expected wear and tear. Unconstrained cells are typically rated for 2000 cycles. Placing them in some sort of clamping system to restrict movement during charge / discharge will see that rise to typically 3000 cycles. If you are attempting to prolong the life of the battery beyond the rated spec, shallow cycle it by all means, which includes 80/20 cycling where you don't fully charge it nor fully discharge it. Shallow cycling came from lead acid where the nominal full discharge rating of the battery is usually pretty miserable, 250 to 400 cycles. With LiFePO4 at 2000 cycles we can go from 100% to 0% and back to 100% at least 2000 times or if done once a day about 5 and a half years. Arguably if you are going full cycle on any battery system daily you've probably made a bad choice in battery capacity.
@@retrozmachine1189 yes I recently learned that 0% state of charge means 2.5v with lifepo4 and not 0v as it correctly would with anything else. And other battery types are measured differently.
@@fathergratwick Lead acid, nimh, nicad, etc, pretty much any cell that is rechargeable but where the components are not replaced such as a flow cell all can not be discharged to 0v without drastically reducing the cell life cycle count. The safe minimum cell voltage is different for different chemistries of course.
@retro zmachine yes I know.. but true 0% state of charge is fully discharged to 0v however that's not what the term means when it comes to batteries .. it should be 0% state of capacity not charge.
Remove the BMS, replace the aluminum bus bars with copper and you can probably do 10 second bursts in excess of 600A. I’d guess by 900A the voltage drop would be a bit too much.
I hope someone can help me here. Yesterday I finally got my solar system in order. I got my new battery, Power Queen lithium 12V 300Ah, and it took 15h to get it fully charged and ready. My system is composed of 5x 150Wp solar panels, 3 in parallel to an EpEver Tracer mppt, and 2 other in parallel to an identical mppt. Each come in to their mppt via a 30A automatic fuse. The output of both mppt come together on a bus bar and go from there to the battery and also to a 2500W converter to 12to220V. I have a battery switch on the plus from the battery to the bus bar. Both mppt are set for Lithium. My battery has a 200A BMS with under/over voltage protection. The converter also has protection for over voltage. Over voltage of the BMS is 15V, over voltage of the converter is also fix set at 15V and the mppt is standard 14,8V as over voltage. Now my problem ... The converter goes regularly in over voltage alarm and sometimes total shut off. When a regular alarm occurs the system is shut off for a few seconds, but sometimes it goes into error and then the system shuts off and only can be turned on again by physically turn off the switch on the converter, wait about 30sec and put to switch back to on. But even with a regular alarm, buzzer, the system turns off for a few seconds, meaning that it can be a dangerous situation ... when my pellet stove is on and is cut off when enough pellets are burning, there is no fan for exhaust and I already found myself inside a room full of smoke and fire alarm yelling. Also each time my router turns off and needs to go to a boot up sequence, meaning my internet in down for about 7min. Etc. ... What can I do to make that the voltage stays below the over voltage value ? I first was thinking to put the Victron battery protect module but that would be an overkill and would not help as it would shut down my system as well. Plus I already have protection for over voltage due to the BMS and the converter protections. I had the Juntec battery monitor, 2023 model, but need to return it as it doesn't work, not on my Samsung tablet nor on my iPhone. I ordered the Victron smart shunt and hope to install it tomorrow.
The answer my friend is to ensure that your solar charger and converter are both set to charge the battery to 14.4V. Once charged the voltage should be set to fall back to say 13.5V. Both must not be set to perform equalisation charging. It's not unusual for EpEver chargers to periodically overshoot the charging voltage too. Many people fall for the trap that a lead acid battery charger can be used to properly charge a lifepo4 battery. In some circumstances a lead acid charger can be pressed into service with lifepo4 but some simple can't. If your converter can not be adjusted to acceptably charge a lifepo4 battery you may have to replace it. A Victron battery protect isn't the right solution.
@retro zmachine , some comments to get this clear. The converter has no charger, it's only a 12V DC to 220V AC pure sine converter. The converter itself has an pre defined fix input over voltage protection set on 15V. The 2 mppt are EpEver TracerAN and do have Lipo4 select option, and I set both of them on that. Later when I could, just a few days ago, I programmed it different BUT could only program one of the two, as one doesn't want to communicate with the EpEver Bluetooth module. Normally today the new MT50 will be delivered and I will find out it it will be able to communicate with the otherwise non reactive mppt.
If you keep a 100AH AGM battery between 40% and 100% SOC you can expect around 800 to maybe 1,000 charge cycles before it's toast, and by "toast", I mean it won't hold 12.8 volts anymore. If you do the math (1280wh x .6) x 1,000 cycles you get around 768 kwh worth of storage capacity. If you keep a 100AH LFP battery between 10% and 100%, you can expect around 4,000 cycles, so (1280wh X .9) x 4,000, or 4,600 kwh worth of storage capacity. That is nearly 6 times as much total storage over the useful lifetime of the battery. It's also worth mentioning that after this many charge cycles, the storage capacity of the LFP battery will have dropped to 80% or maybe a little less, but it's NOT "toast". It is still perfectly serviceable, just at a reduced capacity. It will keep going down, but it is entirely possible to get reasonable storage out of an LFP battery for 20 years. Throughout that dramatically extended service life, you continue to get a very steady 12.5+ volts throughout the majority of the discharge curve, whereas an lead-acid battery will struggle to stay above 12 volts, as it nears end of life.
Anyone still buying lead-acid batteries for anything other than cranking over a large engine or operating in very cold conditions is penny wise and pound foolish.
Hi, This may not be our battery but its great to see people using the proper technique of measuring Capacity and that is WH/3.2 (per cell).👏👏👏
I bought two of the 100ahs a year ago for my RV to replace worn-out short-lived Interstate lead-acids. You know I'll be using them as supply batteries on field day.
300Ah are freaking awesome, Chuck. Perfect Feild day battery. Thanks for showing this battery.
Thanks kevin, yea I could operate from the MH all field day Lol
can someone please do a head to head comparison of all the new 460ah lifepo4 batteries that are coming out? redodo bird, roamer, litime, epoch, basen, VATRER, power drag queen, etc.. thanks in advance! @@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures
They make a 410Ah now. But it costs almost 5k just for 1, or you could get 4 100Ah ones for under 1k. You get about the same capacity
LFP batteries really shine when pulling them at c rating:)
Very good video it was actually nice to hear your calm no drama voice. I, convinced that the Queen batteries are the only way to go and I believe I will be going with 2 of the 200 AH's and run them parallel witch will cost me aprox 1300.00 and not sure about the 1500 inverter. I think it would be better to go at least 2000 if not 3000 on the inverter . Once again great video and thank you Sir.
Excellent video Sir! Thank You!
Thank you.
Info on how to program your MPPT for this battery and battery shunt monitor.
I use the EpEver TracerAN mppt and a Juntec battery monitor with 400A shunt.
I have 5x 150Wp solar panels feeding the battery to a 2500W inverter 12V DC to 220V AC
Overvoltage protection: 15V
Undervoltage protection: 10.8V
Discharging overcurrent protection: 200A
Charging overcurrent protection: 200A
Overpower protection: 2560W
Over temp protection: 50C
Low temp protection: 5C
Low capacity reminder: 10%
Protection recover time: 180s
Protection delay: 5s
Over voltage: 15V
Charge limit: 14.8V
Over Voltage Reconnect 14.2V
Equalize voltage: Disable
Boost voltage: 14.6V
Float Voltage: 13.8V
Boost reconnect: 13.5V
Low Voltage Reconnect 12.4
Under Voltage Recover 12V
Under Voltage Warning 11.6V
Low Voltage Disconnect 10.8V
Discharge limit: 10V
Thanks sounds like a great setup , and inf!
Nice job with the video Chuck. Fantastic camera work 👍
Thanbks Ape
I have to park my converted ambulance this winter (temps rarely go below teens here). Should I remove my lithium iron phosphate batteries (the ones for my solar system) and keep them indoors and charged until it warms up?
lol, wow , anyone want to carry this on a SOTA activastion? LOL Thanks for the great videos, i learn alot from them 73s NS9T
👌👍❤️🇨🇦, gr8 review, I only use Power Queen
Awesome
nice, im currently rocking a 20ah one. xD . works good though. using it to power my xbox one s, tv and tablet. works nice. i also use it to power a lamp during the night.
I'm thinking of getting one of these for my toy hauler. My only concern is will this battery start my onboard Onan 4,000 watt generator? Most of the lithium batteries companies I have talked to say "don't use them to start engines." Thoughts?
I'm not sure on that, you might contact Power Queen. In my motor home I think it starts grom my drive battery
@@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures my MH generator starts from house batteries , as did my last coach
@@allencunningham9676 My 300 ah battery started my on board generator, it is on the house battery.
@@KK6USYHamRadioAdventures great to know
The watt. energy is 3,800.40 ??
Or might you have meant , three thousand eight hundred Fourty ?
Im trying to figure out why as good as a battery co PQ is the batter says 300 Amp but the max of the BMS is 200. Thats a non starter for me.I pay for 300 amps i want very close to 300 amps or its a no deal.
These batteries are on the cheap side, so there is a tradeoff. They are specifically designed as storage batteries for typical marine and RV devices like microwaves, fridges, lighting, etc. Thin plate pure lead batteries are still the best option for starting engines.
why would you change load during a test - that changes the parameters and invalidates your result (apart from “emptying” a battery…
You can only drain lifepo4 to 20% safely without damage to cell life not 0%.. Not sure if they use larger rated cells in the battery in addition to that.from your test results it sounds that way. The built in bms should cut off voltage once you reach that 20%
Yea the BMS did shut the battery down about 7 minutes after I stopped the test, and I assume like you say that was at the 20% the BMS sees. Thank you for the comment!
No, this is incorrect. LiFePO4 is rated at full number of cycles down to 0%, which is typically 2.5V / cell these days. Fully discharging it will not damage the battery, at least not in a way that anyone would seriously consider to be damaged, ie normal expected wear and tear. Unconstrained cells are typically rated for 2000 cycles. Placing them in some sort of clamping system to restrict movement during charge / discharge will see that rise to typically 3000 cycles.
If you are attempting to prolong the life of the battery beyond the rated spec, shallow cycle it by all means, which includes 80/20 cycling where you don't fully charge it nor fully discharge it.
Shallow cycling came from lead acid where the nominal full discharge rating of the battery is usually pretty miserable, 250 to 400 cycles. With LiFePO4 at 2000 cycles we can go from 100% to 0% and back to 100% at least 2000 times or if done once a day about 5 and a half years. Arguably if you are going full cycle on any battery system daily you've probably made a bad choice in battery capacity.
@@retrozmachine1189 yes I recently learned that 0% state of charge means 2.5v with lifepo4 and not 0v as it correctly would with anything else. And other battery types are measured differently.
@@fathergratwick Lead acid, nimh, nicad, etc, pretty much any cell that is rechargeable but where the components are not replaced such as a flow cell all can not be discharged to 0v without drastically reducing the cell life cycle count. The safe minimum cell voltage is different for different chemistries of course.
@retro zmachine yes I know.. but true 0% state of charge is fully discharged to 0v however that's not what the term means when it comes to batteries .. it should be 0% state of capacity not charge.
Remove the BMS, replace the aluminum bus bars with copper and you can probably do 10 second bursts in excess of 600A. I’d guess by 900A the voltage drop would be a bit too much.
Thanks for sharing!! must save up for the batteries, but I need to buy that shunt very soon. have 2 small off grid 24 volt system set ups.
I hope someone can help me here.
Yesterday I finally got my solar system in order.
I got my new battery, Power Queen lithium 12V 300Ah, and it took 15h to get it fully charged and ready.
My system is composed of 5x 150Wp solar panels, 3 in parallel to an EpEver Tracer mppt, and 2 other in parallel to an identical mppt. Each come in to their mppt via a 30A automatic fuse. The output of both mppt come together on a bus bar and go from there to the battery and also to a 2500W converter to 12to220V. I have a battery switch on the plus from the battery to the bus bar.
Both mppt are set for Lithium. My battery has a 200A BMS with under/over voltage protection. The converter also has protection for over voltage.
Over voltage of the BMS is 15V, over voltage of the converter is also fix set at 15V and the mppt is standard 14,8V as over voltage.
Now my problem ...
The converter goes regularly in over voltage alarm and sometimes total shut off. When a regular alarm occurs the system is shut off for a few seconds, but sometimes it goes into error and then the system shuts off and only can be turned on again by physically turn off the switch on the converter, wait about 30sec and put to switch back to on.
But even with a regular alarm, buzzer, the system turns off for a few seconds, meaning that it can be a dangerous situation ... when my pellet stove is on and is cut off when enough pellets are burning, there is no fan for exhaust and I already found myself inside a room full of smoke and fire alarm yelling. Also each time my router turns off and needs to go to a boot up sequence, meaning my internet in down for about 7min. Etc. ...
What can I do to make that the voltage stays below the over voltage value ?
I first was thinking to put the Victron battery protect module but that would be an overkill and would not help as it would shut down my system as well. Plus I already have protection for over voltage due to the BMS and the converter protections.
I had the Juntec battery monitor, 2023 model, but need to return it as it doesn't work, not on my Samsung tablet nor on my iPhone.
I ordered the Victron smart shunt and hope to install it tomorrow.
The answer my friend is to ensure that your solar charger and converter are both set to charge the battery to 14.4V. Once charged the voltage should be set to fall back to say 13.5V. Both must not be set to perform equalisation charging. It's not unusual for EpEver chargers to periodically overshoot the charging voltage too.
Many people fall for the trap that a lead acid battery charger can be used to properly charge a lifepo4 battery. In some circumstances a lead acid charger can be pressed into service with lifepo4 but some simple can't. If your converter can not be adjusted to acceptably charge a lifepo4 battery you may have to replace it.
A Victron battery protect isn't the right solution.
@retro zmachine , some comments to get this clear. The converter has no charger, it's only a 12V DC to 220V AC pure sine converter. The converter itself has an pre defined fix input over voltage protection set on 15V. The 2 mppt are EpEver TracerAN and do have Lipo4 select option, and I set both of them on that. Later when I could, just a few days ago, I programmed it different BUT could only program one of the two, as one doesn't want to communicate with the EpEver Bluetooth module. Normally today the new MT50 will be delivered and I will find out it it will be able to communicate with the otherwise non reactive mppt.
@@NeoVdV Then what you have is an inverter. A converter is something completely different.
@@retrozmachine1189 ok sorry for the wrong naming
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