Fantastic review and education!! Main added value by investing with the REC PURE...is the ECO benefits, Lead free and such....promoting a company with added emphasis on the environmental benefit...a more sustainable product.
Hey just want to say thank you to you guys, I do virtual solar for a brokerage. And your channel is a wealth of information on all the gear we sell. You might actually get chuckle of one of my appointments, I steal a lot of your verbiage. Thanks a lot for everything you do guys.
What do you think about the Q cell 365 W solar panels versus the 400 W I use about 10,000 kW per year and I’m going to get 20 q cell panels 365 watt with the solar, edge, inverter. What do you think about the system set up?
Weren't half-cut cells pioneered by REC and not QCells? The temp. coefficient value most looked at is Pmax. REC quotes a value of -0.26% while QCells quotes -0.34%. REC's higher efficiency wins out with smaller roofs while larger roofs can produce power more economically with QCells.
$1328 is not roughly $2000. Even pre-rebate pricing is under $1800. Although it's a great idea to offset the potential QCELL degradation by adding an extra panel, this is only possible if you're not already at max capacity for your roof space.
Terrific video Dale. Thank you. Clear and concise outline of the pros and cons of each panel type. Leaning toward QCell myself for our desert home. Hopefully the slightly lower coefficient rating won’t be significant.
Great video, i think one question to value on the price difference is the REC panel being lead free. Not a problem now but who knows in 25 years. Thanks!
Please in future videos cover real world shade protection as one manufacture half cell setup are not the same, so where’s one company may allow shade protection on more than half width of pannel yet still offer high return yet another tri as shown as more than two cells see covered that half of the pannel drops to half output. This can be a huge issue for someone who may have that odd looking tree affect more than one pannel at a time
a question: I currently have 15 panels (305 Hanwha Q Cells). They are three years old. How much more production could I get if I replaced these panels with the Q-Cell panels in your video??? Cost to switch to these panels. Thanks. GREAT video(s)
Thank you for this comparison. These are the exact panels I am currently looking at. One difference you didn’t mention is I have Limited roof space and I can fit more REC panels on it because they’re smaller. Do you think it’s worth sticking with the 7+ micro inverters to also bring down the cost?
Probably not worth going for the IQ8 unless you need any of the new features it adds. Realistically, they will be on IQ version 20 and your panels and IQ7+ will still be working just fine in 25 years.
I have been quoted the Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G10+ 365W panel for a solar installation. Of particular concern to me is their is no hail certification listed for that panel, yet the ML line has it specified. Does this mean these panels will not hold up to the 1” hail? Not sure why any panel would not have a hail certification and in my area we occasionally have hail storms, although 1” size is very rare. Should this be a concern?
Have found a source that still has some of the LG Neon R panels in the UK. Was looking at the REC Alpha 420W panels due later this year. What would you do? Grab the LG's (with the MCS certificate) now... or wait for the REC? LG405N3K - 405W High Efficiency LG NeON® H+ Black Module Efficiency: 20.7% ~~ 90.6% - 25 years ~~ Module has 3 diodes REC Alpha Pure-R - completely new type of panel being manufactured currently 420W 21.8% efficiency ~~ 92% - 25 years ~~ Module has 4 diodes. Lead free / no soldering on the Pure range - they use ‘smart wiring’ instead Heterojunction technology so slightly more efficient in low light Cells are bi-facial (not the module) so you get a very slight increase power
Do you also represent Solaria? We’re planning on a large solar installation on our Lake Tahoe home, which has many tall Jeffrey Pines on property. The issue is we are very restricted in cutting these native trees thus the roof is very prone to shading, especially in winter when sun is lower on horizon. We have a very large roof area thus overall panel efficiency is less an issue than it’s relative performance when panel is partially shaded. Both Rec & Solaria claim patented designs that allow panel to operate at up to 50% shading, to my knowledge no other manufacturer makes such claims. Have you any firsthand experience with shading performance output with these 2 brands, or additional ones if applicable? Which would you recommend for this condition? Fwiw, temp coefficiency is of little consideration since ambient temps are never triple digits and rarely reach 90F. Panels are to be mounted on a charcoal grey standing seam metal roof with pitch between 6-8 in 12. Given the pitch and metal roof, snow accumulation atop panels is typically minimal. We have an LG system on our home in MT with similar pitch and they rarely if ever accumulate snow unless temps drop to below zero. Even then, it clears within a day.
Real-world measurements of the Qcells degradation rate consistently show a lower rate than they guarantee: about 0.3% per year after the standard 2% loss over the first year, which REC panels also suffer. This means that over 25 years, a Qcells panel should be down to about 91% of its original performance, which is close to REC. The same might be true of REC, but not necessarily.
The 25 yr discussion is irrelevant, as other than my parents I don’t know anyone who stays in their house more than 8 yrs. Efficiency rating is a useless discussion when NMOT is provided, and then just calculate your Watts per sq ft if your roof space is restricted, or your Watts per $
@@autopersonaloffical8648 Dont know must be on the net. But I have learned since all big industrail companies in S. Korea have to make arms as the have N. Korea threat above them I believe. Will US come and save them with Ukraine war on now.
@@normanpouch We have to and we would. We have defense treaties with certain countries, including South Korea, much like NATO. We even have a brigade or more present in South Korea at all times--a token force, but it maintains our close military relationship with this important ally and acts as a guarantee that the United States will come to help if needed. We have a similar treaty with Japan, and of course Australia is another close ally. And as for Taiwan, nothing can be made official, but all of these countries would very likely join us in defending this island from a Chinese invasion. Ukraine is way down on the priority list, to be frank. American blood would be spilled if necessary to defend these other countries (and for members of NATO), but not Ukraine.
Imagine saying "lesser known brands" and putting all of the Chinese manufacturers on that list. Trina solar is like 60% lower price, while at the same time having a significantly higher power output. (400 watt panels vs 550 watt panels) These "lesser known" brands, are the real reason LG had to throw the towel in. They are no longer competitive.
@@Justmejbful actually, it will lower your costs not only by almost 50% at the panel level, but because they are higher output, you'll also save a lot of money in materials. So unless you're very space constrained, it makes absolutely no sense to get anything else. I guess you could argue that you need 2 people to get the panel to the roof, but so what? It's not like installing this is ever done by one single worker.
@Graves I completely disagree. I've been using "cheap" solar panels for over 4 years without a single issue (polycrystalline renesola residential panels) and there's zero people in my city that use premium panels, and no one has an issue with them. Also, saying hat REC panels are better than Trina is quite a statement to make. I'd like to know what you mean by that. Care to share what the price of those trina solar panels is? I can get a 545w Trina solar panel for about $240, but I'm in Mexico. And as far as microinverters go... those things are great, but unless you have shading issues (which you should probably try to solve anyway) it makes very little sense to spend so much extra money for the same power generation. If you have the space, you're much better off just getting a big mono inverter or two, and more PVs with the extra money. In Mexico, Ican get an entire 35Kw system installed for about 21,000 USD using 550w Trina solar panels (as of the posting of this comment anyway) That's how cheap high quality PVs are from China are. How does your distributor compare?
@Graves " I know nothing about how PV is done in Mexico so I'm not going to argue against what you're saying. That's absolutely insane to hear though. I'm curious as to how you're finding these numbers. Is that just the cost of the solar panels themselves? A 35kW system here in the US would run someone well over 50k after all is said and done. We're talking man power, permit costs, engineering costs, electrician costs, etc. Not to mention the rails, the wire, and the conduit. These all need to be factored in when quoting these PV systems, which is why I mentioned how there needs to be more transparency in the industry. It's not as simple as buying solar panels and putting them on your roof. There's so much more to it than that which is why people tend to get put off when given a quote." The price is ~21k for the whole thing, including a Solis 30kw, 3 phase inverter, 56 550w Trina Vertex panels, aluminum structures, cabling, etc, etc. this includes installation, and any paperwork with the CFE (which is Mexico's only power company) this is with no subsidizes or incentives of any kind. I think the reason so many american people are under the impression that solar is still very expensive, is because it actually still is very expensive in the states... prices have come down exponentially over the last decade around the world, but the quotes I see in the US for even a small PV installation are insane. It's no wonder a lot of people want nothing to do with solar in the states. The only thing left that needs to happen is the prices of storage coming down. Once that happens, we're going to live in a world of clean, abundant energy. This future is a lot closer than most people realize.
Geez people relax. I've been in solar almost 40yrs. Smaller roof, energy efficiency is always first before solar. Tesla? Please, cmon now. Qcell now is an owner of REC so I'd bank on QCell. I have to service these and never a grumble from qcell. IQ8 all the way with Encharge is the perfect match if you know your chemistry. This guy did great. Can we get cheaper pricing sure. Every company and region have their own margins needed to stay alive. But I will stand by energy efficiency first before solar. Hawaii is the oldest solar state and renewables are built in our DNA, yes I know they'll be haters but I've been doing this my entire life.
That is not entirely accurate, Hanwha only bought 16.67% of REC's shares, while it is a major shareholder it does not mean that QCells owns REC, it's not a hostile takeover, or a takeover in any sense. If anything that means Hanwha knows REC is going places and they know they will make $$$ off of their shares.
Tesla uses a tring inverter, plus they don't use high-quality panels like in this video. Tesla will always be cheaper if you can get them. But i you ha e a lot of shading and trees around the house then the Tesla Ssysten won't work as well.
You say price gouging, in my area so far it’s a good price. I was quoted $24,353.30 for a 4.4kW size system before tax incentives. Different markets have different pricing. I hope I can get an enphase system for less than what I’ve been quoted so far.
@@endgame4318 Tesla has a much lower per month maint, charge. A lot of people never think about that. Also, I am quoted on nearly three times your size.
Good luck with your install Frank. I’m sure you’ve done your research on the products Tesla offers and all of their amazing online reviews. Pro tip: don’t miss any of your home owners insurance payments for the next 20 years!
I chose REC Alpha panels, it was an excellent decision. Thank you for your videos.
Fantastic review and education!!
Main added value by investing with the REC PURE...is the ECO benefits, Lead free and such....promoting a company with added emphasis on the environmental benefit...a more sustainable product.
Hey just want to say thank you to you guys, I do virtual solar for a brokerage. And your channel is a wealth of information on all the gear we sell. You might actually get chuckle of one of my appointments, I steal a lot of your verbiage. Thanks a lot for everything you do guys.
I have and love my rec alpha
Great video.
What do you think about the Q cell 365 W solar panels versus the 400 W I use about 10,000 kW per year and I’m going to get 20 q cell panels 365 watt with the solar, edge, inverter. What do you think about the system set up?
Weren't half-cut cells pioneered by REC and not QCells? The temp. coefficient value most looked at is Pmax. REC quotes a value of -0.26% while QCells quotes -0.34%. REC's higher efficiency wins out with smaller roofs while larger roofs can produce power more economically with QCells.
Yes finally a great comment!
Price them both, REC needs to wake up to pricing! I have installed both and the money I spent on the RECs priced them out of my sales list.
Thanks for great video. In your opinion what you will recommend REC395aa pure black vs Canadian Solar CS3N-395MS-BLK HiKu Black Mono PERC Solar Panel
You mention microinverters. I’m concerned in the Phoenix AZ area these would fry. Any thoughts on failure rate due to extremely high temperatures?
Do you know what total cost is with install. Turn Key.
$1328 is not roughly $2000. Even pre-rebate pricing is under $1800. Although it's a great idea to offset the potential QCELL degradation by adding an extra panel, this is only possible if you're not already at max capacity for your roof space.
Is the Thermal Co-efficiency Voc or Pmax??
Terrific video Dale. Thank you. Clear and concise outline of the pros and cons of each panel type. Leaning toward QCell myself for our desert home. Hopefully the slightly lower coefficient rating won’t be significant.
Great video, i think one question to value on the price difference is the REC panel being lead free. Not a problem now but who knows in 25 years. Thanks!
Please in future videos cover real world shade protection as one manufacture half cell setup are not the same, so where’s one company may allow shade protection on more than half width of pannel yet still offer high return yet another tri as shown as more than two cells see covered that half of the pannel drops to half output. This can be a huge issue for someone who may have that odd looking tree affect more than one pannel at a time
a question: I currently have 15 panels (305 Hanwha Q Cells). They are three years old. How much more production could I get if I replaced these panels with the Q-Cell panels in your video??? Cost to switch to these panels. Thanks. GREAT video(s)
Thank you for this comparison. These are the exact panels I am currently looking at. One difference you didn’t mention is I have Limited roof space and I can fit more REC panels on it because they’re smaller.
Do you think it’s worth sticking with the 7+ micro inverters to also bring down the cost?
Probably not worth going for the IQ8 unless you need any of the new features it adds. Realistically, they will be on IQ version 20 and your panels and IQ7+ will still be working just fine in 25 years.
Why is it so expensive ??? - Tata or Adani 6.5 kWh costs only Rs 350,000 in India. That is approximately 5000 USD before government subsidies.
Do you know anything about solar sunmac 405w panels
I have been quoted the Q.PEAK DUO BLK-G10+ 365W panel for a solar installation. Of particular concern to me is their is no hail certification listed for that panel, yet the ML line has it specified. Does this mean these panels will not hold up to the 1” hail? Not sure why any panel would not have a hail certification and in my area we occasionally have hail storms, although 1” size is very rare. Should this be a concern?
Thanks again. Here in Europe these brands don't have any market 😕
Just ordered REC Alpha Pure R 420 here in Ireland. Not cheap, but I value all the great warranties
Rec hands down, they are the most reliable option in the industry.
Thank you for video. Any reason why you did not mention SunPower? - Is it better ow worse than two brands you've covered? Thank you.
REc is the best option, don't go with Sunpower. They are an absolute pain to service if you have an issue
How much 16Kwh system should coast in NY.
How much for a single Rec Panel uninstalled to buy directly from you?
How much cost for 1kw panel
Have found a source that still has some of the LG Neon R panels in the UK.
Was looking at the REC Alpha 420W panels due later this year.
What would you do? Grab the LG's (with the MCS certificate) now... or wait for the REC?
LG405N3K - 405W High Efficiency LG NeON® H+ Black
Module Efficiency: 20.7% ~~ 90.6% - 25 years ~~ Module has 3 diodes
REC Alpha Pure-R - completely new type of panel being manufactured currently
420W 21.8% efficiency ~~ 92% - 25 years ~~ Module has 4 diodes.
Lead free / no soldering on the Pure range - they use ‘smart wiring’ instead
Heterojunction technology so slightly more efficient in low light
Cells are bi-facial (not the module) so you get a very slight increase power
Do you also represent Solaria? We’re planning on a large solar installation on our Lake Tahoe home, which has many tall Jeffrey Pines on property. The issue is we are very restricted in cutting these native trees thus the roof is very prone to shading, especially in winter when sun is lower on horizon.
We have a very large roof area thus overall panel efficiency is less an issue than it’s relative performance when panel is partially shaded. Both Rec & Solaria claim patented designs that allow panel to operate at up to 50% shading, to my knowledge no other manufacturer makes such claims. Have you any firsthand experience with shading performance output with these 2 brands, or additional ones if applicable? Which would you recommend for this condition?
Fwiw, temp coefficiency is of little consideration since ambient temps are never triple digits and rarely reach 90F. Panels are to be mounted on a charcoal grey standing seam metal roof with pitch between 6-8 in 12. Given the pitch and metal roof, snow accumulation atop panels is typically minimal. We have an LG system on our home in MT with similar pitch and they rarely if ever accumulate snow unless temps drop to below zero. Even then, it clears within a day.
Genius…. Don’t install panels in the shade
Real-world measurements of the Qcells degradation rate consistently show a lower rate than they guarantee: about 0.3% per year after the standard 2% loss over the first year, which REC panels also suffer. This means that over 25 years, a Qcells panel should be down to about 91% of its original performance, which is close to REC. The same might be true of REC, but not necessarily.
q cells is a great product for commercial jobs
What about SunPower. Aren't they the best.
So, in a tight comparison, other factors can be considered. Like aesthetics - how do the two installations differ visually?
Sir please make the one video on rec alpha vs Panasonic Evervolt
Panasonic EverVolt EVPVs are rebranded REC Alphas
Lg please come back
Hanawah? Try HAN-waa
The 25 yr discussion is irrelevant, as other than my parents I don’t know anyone who stays in their house more than 8 yrs. Efficiency rating is a useless discussion when NMOT is provided, and then just calculate your Watts per sq ft if your roof space is restricted, or your Watts per $
Blatherskite all
REC don't make landmines and kill people. Look up Hanwha previously called the Korean Explosive Company.
Why was hanwha called that??
@@autopersonaloffical8648 Dont know must be on the net. But I have learned since all big industrail companies in S. Korea have to make arms as the have N. Korea threat above them I believe. Will US come and save them with Ukraine war on now.
@@normanpouch We have to and we would. We have defense treaties with certain countries, including South Korea, much like NATO. We even have a brigade or more present in South Korea at all times--a token force, but it maintains our close military relationship with this important ally and acts as a guarantee that the United States will come to help if needed.
We have a similar treaty with Japan, and of course Australia is another close ally. And as for Taiwan, nothing can be made official, but all of these countries would very likely join us in defending this island from a Chinese invasion. Ukraine is way down on the priority list, to be frank. American blood would be spilled if necessary to defend these other countries (and for members of NATO), but not Ukraine.
Imagine saying "lesser known brands" and putting all of the Chinese manufacturers on that list.
Trina solar is like 60% lower price, while at the same time having a significantly higher power output. (400 watt panels vs 550 watt panels)
These "lesser known" brands, are the real reason LG had to throw the towel in.
They are no longer competitive.
A Trina solar 550W will be much larger than a 400W REC or QCell panel and less ideal for residential roofs.
@@Justmejbful actually, it will lower your costs not only by almost 50% at the panel level, but because they are higher output, you'll also save a lot of money in materials.
So unless you're very space constrained, it makes absolutely no sense to get anything else.
I guess you could argue that you need 2 people to get the panel to the roof, but so what? It's not like installing this is ever done by one single worker.
@@saintkamus14 trina is trash
@Graves I completely disagree. I've been using "cheap" solar panels for over 4 years without a single issue (polycrystalline renesola residential panels) and there's zero people in my city that use premium panels, and no one has an issue with them.
Also, saying hat REC panels are better than Trina is quite a statement to make. I'd like to know what you mean by that.
Care to share what the price of those trina solar panels is? I can get a 545w Trina solar panel for about $240, but I'm in Mexico.
And as far as microinverters go... those things are great, but unless you have shading issues (which you should probably try to solve anyway) it makes very little sense to spend so much extra money for the same power generation. If you have the space, you're much better off just getting a big mono inverter or two, and more PVs with the extra money.
In Mexico, Ican get an entire 35Kw system installed for about 21,000 USD using 550w Trina solar panels (as of the posting of this comment anyway) That's how cheap high quality PVs are from China are. How does your distributor compare?
@Graves " I know nothing about how PV is done in Mexico so I'm not going to argue against what you're saying. That's absolutely insane to hear though. I'm curious as to how you're finding these numbers. Is that just the cost of the solar panels themselves? A 35kW system here in the US would run someone well over 50k after all is said and done. We're talking man power, permit costs, engineering costs, electrician costs, etc. Not to mention the rails, the wire, and the conduit. These all need to be factored in when quoting these PV systems, which is why I mentioned how there needs to be more transparency in the industry. It's not as simple as buying solar panels and putting them on your roof. There's so much more to it than that which is why people tend to get put off when given a quote."
The price is ~21k for the whole thing, including a Solis 30kw, 3 phase inverter, 56 550w Trina Vertex panels, aluminum structures, cabling, etc, etc. this includes installation, and any paperwork with the CFE (which is Mexico's only power company) this is with no subsidizes or incentives of any kind.
I think the reason so many american people are under the impression that solar is still very expensive, is because it actually still is very expensive in the states... prices have come down exponentially over the last decade around the world, but the quotes I see in the US for even a small PV installation are insane. It's no wonder a lot of people want nothing to do with solar in the states.
The only thing left that needs to happen is the prices of storage coming down. Once that happens, we're going to live in a world of clean, abundant energy. This future is a lot closer than most people realize.
Geez people relax. I've been in solar almost 40yrs. Smaller roof, energy efficiency is always first before solar. Tesla? Please, cmon now. Qcell now is an owner of REC so I'd bank on QCell. I have to service these and never a grumble from qcell. IQ8 all the way with Encharge is the perfect match if you know your chemistry. This guy did great. Can we get cheaper pricing sure. Every company and region have their own margins needed to stay alive. But I will stand by energy efficiency first before solar. Hawaii is the oldest solar state and renewables are built in our DNA, yes I know they'll be haters but I've been doing this my entire life.
That is not entirely accurate, Hanwha only bought 16.67% of REC's shares, while it is a major shareholder it does not mean that QCells owns REC, it's not a hostile takeover, or a takeover in any sense. If anything that means Hanwha knows REC is going places and they know they will make $$$ off of their shares.
@@Spartan536 they are majority share holder with executive voting rights. Just watch. They will be in cintrol
this is not correct. REC Silicon is not affiliated with REC Group (the solar module manufacturer). 2 entirely different entities.
Just like a bad salesman to mislead people right off the bat. Panasonic said they wouldn’t manufacture panels, they will be outsourced manufacturing
I just got quoted $21k for a 13.5kw Tesla roof after fed rebates. This is no comparison video, this is an infomercial and you are price gouging.
Tesla uses a tring inverter, plus they don't use high-quality panels like in this video. Tesla will always be cheaper if you can get them. But i you ha e a lot of shading and trees around the house then the Tesla Ssysten won't work as well.
You say price gouging, in my area so far it’s a good price. I was quoted $24,353.30 for a 4.4kW size system before tax incentives. Different markets have different pricing. I hope I can get an enphase system for less than what I’ve been quoted so far.
@@endgame4318 Tesla has a much lower per month maint, charge. A lot of people never think about that. Also, I am quoted on nearly three times your size.
@@DeAtHvAnGeL I have no trees ...no shading...no snow.
Good luck with your install Frank. I’m sure you’ve done your research on the products Tesla offers and all of their amazing online reviews. Pro tip: don’t miss any of your home owners insurance payments for the next 20 years!