Fairy godmother said to king Harold, "I gave you you're happy ever after, and I can take it away just as easy" The same could be said about Salem especially when it comes to Cinder disobeying orders. Salem will take away her maiden powers with a snap of her fingers like Thanos. Maybe choosing a new host. Cinder is currently playing with fire, wearing a gasoline bodysuit, who's to say the Grimm whale can't see her movements and tell it's master. Happy ever after, Cinder might be getting her happy never again
@ Salem Moon-- or we could go more of “ BECAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR” “ MAGIC COMES WITH A PRICE” route. Salem decided she has had enough of Cinders disobedience, and make Cinder a full Grimm. And with that Cinder will finally get exactly what she wanted, strength and power but will lose all her humanity and intellect. Thus becoming a strong and powerful mindless monster forever a servant to an immortal Grimm witch. But hey! She got what she wanted. Hope it was worth it.
If Salem could just choose when to take away Maiden powers and who to give them too, she'd have already given them all to Cinder, or have gotten more female pawns to give them to. As powerful as she is, I don't think Salem has any control over the Maiden powers. The same way Ozpin doesn't have any control over them. The two of them may have given birth to the four girls who originally had them, but the powers seem to be independent now.
Salem turning her into a Grimm beast, powerful and fearless as she desired, but devoid of humanity, freedom and most of her intellect, It would be also a proper "be careful what you wish for" ending
By this point it obvious Cinder was intended to be a failed villain considering her success to failure ratio is far worse than the other lieutenants and her own assets.
not really true tbh, Cinder has provided Salem with the most significant victories, that none of the other lieutenants matched. She destroyed beacon, gave them the power of the fall maiden, killed ozpin which temporarily disorientated the enemy's leadership. While she may have failed in haven, she also was the one who brought salem the relic. none of the other lieutenants did anything close
@@H5011-p1m To be fair, her main goal in Beacon was to bring the relic of choice, so technically she failed the first one too, although it wasn't her fault!
Could you Imagine. Salem: "What happened to you Cinder?" Cinder: "I uh I fell off the whale..." Salem grabs Cinder's throat. Salem: "You are either lying or your stupid!!!!" Cinder: "I'm stupid I'm stupid!!!"
Your comment about the 12th hour Cinderella idea also works pretty well since midnight is known as the Witching hour. so would definitely be the time Salem would strongest/winning, definitely a literal darkest hour too.
I find it hilarious that Cinder, who has quite a bit experience as a maiden lost to Penny. Especially when Penny has very little experience as a maiden.
Penny is a robot. She is much stronger than a normal human, almost unreasonably strong as she isn't affected by injuries the same way as humans and doesn't have much of a power limit with her blasts. She can probably 1 hit KO most characters in RWBY, honestly.
@@ferryn6877 I am aware, but considering how powerful the maiden powers are. I thought Cinder would have at least ended the fight in a draw. However, Penny just wasted her.
for half the fight penny was on the run tho, the only reason penny won is because cinder didn't think penny would be able tosee through the illusion, this completely caught her off guard.
@@galaxy-eyesgarchomp9478 That is because Cinder was so power hungry, her arrogance weighed her down. in vol 1-3 Cinder was able to triumph because she was calm and collected, but now she is to consumed and obsessed with the Maidens power, she became to emotional which in turn clouded her judgement in battle. That is why she keeps losing
@@exquisitetoast3859 honestly I’m very glad he died in Volume 3, if he’d lived any longer he probably would’ve suffered massively from Volumes 4 & 5-itis.
I recently heard a totally crazy yet cool theory that The Hound is actually Torchwick post-devouring. Don;t know how that'd work, maybe his undiscovered semblance really is survival and it merged him with the Griffin to preserve his own life and caused the Grimm to mutate and resulting in no memory of a his human life. Its incredibly unlikely yet wacky idea. It'd be mighty awkward for Neo too if The Hound just started following her around in its free time without even understanding why it was so intrigued by the little Ice Cream midget.
@@applebite57_37 You're not wrong. But, If it wasn't for Cinder recruiting Neo then Neo would still be chillin' in the streets of Mistral and she wouldn't have gotten that relic if Cinder didn't recruit her and order her to get the Relic of Knowledge.
@@NarakunoHana100 If Cinder didn't mess up in haven Salem would of had the lamp much earlier, team Rwby would never of learnt Salem's backstory and Haven would of been destroyed. Cinder disobeyed a direct order and involved ruby just to get revenge, Salem has every right to be pissed at her.
I have a personal theory regarding Jaune Arc’s backstory. When Jaune revealed that he has seven sisters and when we saw that family photo in Volume 6, I’m reminded of Ron Weasley’s family from Harry Potter. The Weasleys were a pureblood family of wizards distinguished for their flaming red hair and being poor. Both the Arc family and the Weasley family have a large number of siblings; seven sisters and one brothers in the former and six brothers and one sister in the latter. It’s not outright stated, but I believe RT drew some inspiration from the Weasley family to create the Arcs. As we know, Jaune’s father, grandfather and great-grandfather were renowned Huntsmen and Jaune aspired to be like them. He states that he “just wasn’t good enough”, but I think there’s more going on than we know. Since Jaune’s father is a Huntsman, perhaps that’s the family’s only source of income, making just enough money for them to get by (though we don’t know what field of expertise the father is adept in). As for Jaune’s mother, she’s most likely a housewife similar to Molly Weasley from the aforementioned Harry Potter. She would have to be in order to take care of her children because, as I’m sure most can agree, a large family can lead to large struggles. It’s tricky to determine how much money the Arc family makes, but if I had to guess, I would say that they weren’t completely poor. If my theory is correct, then maybe it would explain Jaune didn’t go to combat school when he was young and didn’t possess the same skill level as that of his future teammates. Maybe due to this hypothetical financial background, Jaune’s father likely taught his son how to use Crocea Mors at home. Then, Jaune cheated his way into Beacon Academy using fake transcripts and, well...the rest is history. What do you think of this?
@@elpopman2055 regardless, Jaune more than earned his Huntsman license and made a few impressive accomplishments without unlocking his Semblance and lack of proper training: killing at least two Ursa both by himself and with Pyrrha’s help, holding back a Neckelavee in a brief contest of strength and holding his own and almost besting a full Maiden Powered Cinder Fall (granted Cinder was toying with Jaune and not fighting at her full capacity, but this is still a notable feat). But in my opinion, Jaune truly came into his own in episode 4 of volume 8. During the chase scene, he was able to cut threw a swarm of Centinels while on a hover bike and pull off some very creative maneuvers with the Gravity Dust upgrades to his shield and that portable shield device. What’s more, Jaune made up for his lack of natural talent with a keen strategic mind
And Hazel said that hurting and sending children to their deaths is wrong, so that's why he's hurting and killing children, and why he's helping Salem murder everyone, including children.
@@atheon4075 I that's the case, Hazel takes the 'irrational' part of the revenge to a never-before-seen and extra stupid height, then. Now use those wits of yours to explain why Ironwood straight up murdered Sleet instead of locking him up or some shit.
Dance K Life-- so true, as Watts said the maidens are only a means to an end, it is the relic Salem is after. Notice she didn’t go after Raven, when the relic left the vault. The only person who cares about the maidens power is Cinder.
I definitely feel like Cinder's whole thing is the destructive power of her fury and thirst for yet more power, and the self-destructive nature of those drives. We don't have her back story, but whatever caused her to develop those has long since been lost in the means to her end. I think that her stroke of midnight may not be a redemptive/ sacrificial thing, because I think she will be over taken by the poison she's drawn into herself in pursuit of her goals. She's taken no heed as to the consequences of her choices and thus her fairy godmother was able to take advantage of her. My vote is Cinder will have one moment of horrifying clarity, realize she's been had, before her clock strikes midnight and the illusion of her agency dissolves. Now at this moment she may take one last "eff you" pot shot, but the fairy godmothers magic (with an emphasis on the fairy/fae part there lol) will dissipate and she'll be left with nothing of what she was before.
So in the Harry Potter books Pettigrew is fighting Harry then lets go of Harry and the replacment hand Voldemort gave Pettigrew takes over and kills Pettigrew for disobeying, thats what i feel will happen the hand will come to life and kill Cinder and in the moment Neo and maybe Emreld exit stage left.
Ooh, after today's new episode: "Midnight." For Rooster Teeth FIRST, this possible fate for Cinder is now at the forefront of my mind for what's coming next.
Why not both? She gets Grimmed by mommy Salem. Then, at the final hour, she takes her revenge by making it easier for Ruby to finish the job, like what Vernal did to her in v5.
I’m really wondering if the hound was a person at one point who was it? Maybe Adam, Roman ( although I hope it’s not I hope he’s still alive and well and maybe he’ll bump into Neo some point), somebody else?
Summer. If it's Summer Rose that would add so much more weight to things than her having just died. We don't see the hound's eyes really [probably because the silver eyes had to be removed.
Remember at haven Academy the huntsmen and huntresses were gone and missing. I wonder if Tyrian hunted them down and then brought them all back to Salem to be experimented? And that is probably the same case with the Silver eyed warriors that were hunted down. If we can recall her flashback or backstory, remember when she told Oz " Why redeem these humans when we can replace them with what they can never be?"
Mid theory- So what if we ARE getting cinders back story. We got a hint in episode 1. But now, since cinder is knocked out, either episode 7 or the mid season finale is gonna be cinders backstory. What if that is the cliffhanger ! This is way off topic but it got my head thinking 😂
Anti-villan is the word you are looking for. Cinder has very selfish reasons for doing what she does, but the end result is a heroic deed being done. Given the right circumstances anyone can become a force for good or evil, and well... The enemy of my enemy.
Salem, I feel is disrespected with each and every one of Cinders actions and I question why she keeps her around when she could probably use the Grimm Herself to take the maiden powers. When she strikes Cinder down It will be glorious
@@lockskelington314 Uhm... I didn't try to disregard Neo's actions or boost Cinders success-rate. It's just that without Cinders part, Salem wouldn't have the relic now. That Cinder failed again, while Neo gave Cinder the opportunity to redeem herself in front of Salem is another story.
@@EngineScypex If Cinder didn't mess up in Haven Salem would of had the lamp much earlier and potentially one extra question. Team Rwby would never of learnt Salem's backstory and Haven would of been destroyed and no longer a treat. Cinder disobeyed a direct order and involved Ruby and Co just to get her revenge, Salem has every right to be pissed at her, not all of Salems targets were reached.
@@bossmode3769 That's not completely true. Heaven was more or less a failure, but that's not entirely Cinders fault. For example you say Heaven would be destroyed, but that hasn't even something to do with Cinder. Blake outmatched Adam. It's also questionable if Cinder ever had a chance to succeed at Heaven. For that, she had to beat Raven - not a simple task, since she's much more experienced as a maiden then Cinder. But the disobedience now changed a lot. If someone goes against directly against the orders, of course the future usefulnis is questionable.
I think she does. Maybe, she's going to try to make all of Remnant submit to her which will be the total opposite of what Ruby's message was suppose to send : Hope.
I think Salem created the Hound by forcibly accelerating the evolution of Grimm intelligence to replace her need for human minions. Even a hundred of years haven't produced Grimm that have survived long enough to learn to become smart enough to outperform humanities collective wisdom. Salem likely has relied on human minions because waiting for an army of Grimm with human like intelligence to evolve naturally takes to long because they'll usually be killed long before another can appear. In the time it took to produce one, Ozpin could reincarnate multiple times to destroy them. However, if Salem's found a way to accelerate centuries of Grimm evolution to the same timespan from which normal Grimm were once born, then she no longer has need to wait centuries to produce Grimm at the peak of their abilities. Around the time Volume 8 began, I started asking myself if the reason Salem has waited so long was not because of her own limitations, but the limitations of the Grimm. Now I wonder if the reason she's stopped hiding, is because she's learned to create Grimm that no longer possess those weaknesses.
I like this theory of Cinder becoming the hound in some way, like her Grimm arm spreads all over her left side of her face so Salen can gain control. I just dont see her looking completely like the Hound tho, so her human body can still get the maidens powers. I dont not think she will ever be free of the grimm arm since that was how she got the powers in the first place. Removing that could remove her powers. Also because Cinder lost her arm and eye by Ruby, there is no way she would ever join her and her team.
I personally prefer the second option, as then we can explore more of Cinder's character. We barely know anything about Cinder and turning her into a Grimm would only mean that power corrupted her and she faced the consequences. It would be much more interesting for the audience to learn of her past and then take what the audience learned and use it in the development of her character in the future. Maybe Cinder, Neo, and Emerald could all run away and become anti-heroes. I think this is especially likely if Ruby and Neo talk and Neo learns that it was Salem's Grimm that killed Roman. Furthermore, Cinder has been set up since the beginning to be a villain that would be one of the final fighters that Team RWBY fights before Salem. The team has not had as close of a connection to Watts, Hazel, or Tyrian. I like the idea of Cinder helping to defeat Salem in the end of the series as well. In general, going down this route would make her a much more complicated and interesting characters in the show, depending on how it is executed.
Hey Phoenix I have an idea if you’re interested. How about a series where you follow each characters progression, (one at a time) discussing what you liked, disliked and give your other personal thoughts on said characters progression?
Not only can it talk, but it’s intelligent unlike other Grimm. Regular Grimm attack without strategy, and the ones that do have a little bit of strategy have been around for many many years. The Hound showed that it can talk, morph into other forms to best suit the situation, strategize by using someone as a shield, and even call for backup from other Grimm nearby. No other Grimm have behaved like this before. That’s why people think it could have an actual human mind behind it, possibly a skilled fighter.
also side note, what if the hound we have currently got its knowledge or what ever from leo lionheart? since his death was cannon and we saw him die to salem's orb, and it would kinda make sense, since his weapon was a shield + a crossbow type thing, and how he used oscars body as a sheild , idk idk food for thought
Phoenix I don’t know if you noticed this, but if the Cinder does die like you said at volume 12 (7:37). It will be somewhat reminiscent of the clock hitting midnight because 12:00am is equal to midnight so that is a pretty good idea.
Another completely different scenario i have is her actually obtaining all four maiden powers. But since the powers were split into 4 different maidens, the power of all 4 in 1 would be to much for a single body to handle; and she would explode from the overwhelming energy inside her. A poetic end to a villain who craves so much power, no matter how much she obtains, it cannot satisfy her hunger for it, would die by acquiring to much of it. Personally though, i see Cinder surviving as herself until the final season. she might get some more grimmification along the way, but a part of her would survive and resurface at the end. Even surviving Salem as a villain. The last one standing, even after her 'master' has fallen, defiant to the end as she is. The whole Cinderella story of the stroke of midnight suggest she would survive until the end before returning to what she once was. A normal girl with no maiden powers. It would be nice to see the first major villain to be the last one remaining in the series. It would be more of a grudge match between her and at this point obviously Ruby in a brutal 1 on 1. So for this to be the case i fear Cinder may have to up her kill count of people Ruby cares deeply about to make that 1 final battle be more then just the endgame.
With the first scene of this volume, I think they want throw us for a loop, and making a reveal/backstory that want us to sympathize with Cinder, maybe something along the lines of Puella Magica with Homura. According to that, Cinder's future may be tragic and fucked up, perhaps with some body horror added to the mix.
I really wanna see the FULL extent of Salem's powers. We saw SOME of Salem’s magic against Oscar and it... was pretty scary huh? But it obviously wasn't her maximum power because...... Oscar would be dead. I feel like Salem’s magic is DIFFERENT from the Maiden powers. Because with the Maidens, you control the elements. Creating storms, blasting fire, etc. But that’s the extent of a Maiden’s power. They can ONLY control the elements. But Salem doesn’t have that restriction. Wonder when we’ll get to see Salem’s TRUE power. Maybe against a subordinate who hasn’t been carrying her weight. A subordinate who JUST recently defied her orders and still came back with nothing. Cinder has taken on 3 Maidens, 4 if count Fria. She’s won once, and lost 3 other times. She can barely take MAIDEN magic. Imagine her trying to take magic on the same level as the Gods.... Cinder’s not lookin to good.
Salem is 4 times more powerful than any maiden that's ever existed , the maidens are just Ozma split magic which he gave to them. Salem is from the first generation of humans which were far superior than the human in the show currently. Plus Salem's had a millennia to harness her magic, and on top of that the Grimm corruption which can add something else to her magic. At this stage Salem is probably 10 or 15 times more powerful than any maiden, she could probably kill all the maidens at the same time easily. That was just basic shit which she did to Oscar, her magic is completely broken at this stage. Anyone who challenges her is dead on sight
Can I note a design detail of Cinder's between the Battle of Haven and the Attack on Atlas? If you notice closely in her Haven Outfit her "Shadow Arm" only reaches up to her lower forearm. Now look at her Atlas Outfit. We get a better look at her "Shadow Arm" and its changed, larger, and has covered her severed arm up to her shoulder. Your Second Hound theory might come to fruition cause I believe that its slowly consuming her, which will also mean that she will have a hard time breaking off of Salem's faction.
I just now see, compared to volume 6, where Cinders Grimm arm only goes past her elbow, in volume 8 it's all the way up to her shoulder. Maybe it's slowly corrupting her this whole time
Speaking about Cinder, I am wondering how much the Grimm arm is going to encroach Cinder's body (after she got laserbeamed and fried into the Amity satellite wall by Penny). She started at about Elbow length, after the fight with Raven and she got her aura broken it seems like it grew up to Cinder's entire shoulder. So maybe now covers her chest cavity?
somthing tells me that salem ordered tyrian to hunt a certi few huntsmen who has enough potentiol and dips them to the grimm pool and see the resalts. seeing that salem still has her magic while becoming a part grimm she wanted to know annd test if normalppl can do the same
A theory I got is that Grimm river is an assembly line. Salem has trapped the city and she still hasn’t crushed them, the only reason I see why is she is preparing to set up an army of those super Grimm. Use the river to cut through the town and into the masses. Now what would speed up the process. I mean if a river could run into a basin like a lake or a crater per say, then that would not only flip team Rwby’s goal to protect the people on its head, but the teams and the survivors would be outnumbered, outgunned and surrounded causing them to flee. Now to protect Atlas General Ironwood could say give up mantle like he wanted and save Atlas in by waving the white flag and giving Salem a pool of Grimm juice, giving her a literal pool of MANpower to use to just overwhelm any attempts of a last stand at Shade academy. And if Cinder were to fall into a near death state, all Salem needs to do is just push her in with her foot.
Just so you know, Monty, rest his soul, apparently had drafted as many as _20_ volumes for RWBY. I'm inclined to think Cinder will strike out on her own by the end of this Volume or the next. If we're following a twisted version of a Cinderella story, Salem is the wicked stepmother that promised Cinder everything (which she probably would have gotten if not for her impatience) but Cinder breaks away from her only to have nothing now.
Given what I've witnessed of her, Cinder is a hardcore sociopath whose actions have long ago crossed the moral event horizon -- a threshold once crossed, there is nothing you can do to go back. At this point, with all she's done and suffered through, and all she's inflicted on others in the name of her own gain, it seems she will readily sacrifice anything to acquire more power the moment any such opportunity presents itself... and I more than see the possibility of her tossing Emerald under the bus in the near future in that same name, or at least doing something so monumentally heinous that it finally drives Emerald away from her side. At that point, Cinder will probably discover just how difficult her existence is without anyone to lean on, much less trust. I don't see a redemption arc in her future, not at all, but a 'owning up to your mistakes' moment/sacrifice may occur, if certain developments are met and backstory meted out. Cinder's origins are still up for the taking, which could provide the extra kick in making who and what she is, has, and may still become. Either way, and all things said and done, I still think RWBY's writing team is just a smidgen too inept to handle the darker and more complex storyline they've chosen to portray ever since Volume 3 ended (what a waste they made of Adam Taurus comes to mind), and as such I don't think I can predict much of anything with clear certainty in the route they will take any longer, so anything is quite possible, if at the cost of poor writing decisions. I still despise what sort of person they made Hazel into, among a great many other things. Making Ironwood murder Sleet was another of most recent memory that brings me nothing but further doubt, because fuck's sake writers, he could have JUST LOCKED THE MAN UP, GOD DAMMIT. AH, YES HARRIET AND ACE-OPS, HE JUST FUCKING MURDERED A CIVILIAN IN COLD BLOOD JUST BECAUSE HE WANTED ANSWERS ON WHY YOUR INTREPID LEADER IS ACTING LIKE A TOTAL FUCKING DICTATORIAL DESPOT OUT OF THE BIG WIDE BLUE ALL OF A SUDDEN, LET'S KEEP FOLLOWING HIM BECAUSE WE WERE TRAINED NOT TO ASK QUESTIONS, HURR-DURR. RWBY IS CLEARLY THE BAD GUYS HERE. 'I HAD YOU KIDS PEGGED FROM THE START'... FUCK YOU.
It would be interesting to see Cinder trying to redeem herself but this should happen when she starts to realize that what she and Salem is doing is wrong and evil and Cinder realize that there's good paths and fates better than where's she's at right now.
i remember, you making a video about how if penny or raven dies, that the maiden power will go to cinder, because she absorbed some of there powers. which does make sense, but seeing how disobedient cinder is and not wanting to listen and follow order, pursuing her own goals. thoughts on cinder dying and the maiden power be passed to ruby? because cinders hatred for ruby is probably more then she loves anyone, not even emerald. that could be an interesting theory, and also if cinder does decide to leave salem, i feel like she would go after ruby right away at all cost and try to kill her. however, if she is only part grim and not full grim, i also wonder how ruby's silver eyes will effect cinder. since she probably won't completely be turned to stone, but it would also kill off all the grim inside of her and salem won't be able to control cinder. these ruby theories are pretty interesting tho. maybe this theory that i have might be worth making a video about.
If someone whos holding multiple maiden powers dies, does the power of all maidens go to the last person on their thoughts? or do they get split up randomly again?
I would say it depends on the situation or to be more clear if the power is 'complete' or not. At the moment, Cinder has the full power of the fall maiden, but only a fraction of spring and winter: So probably spring and winter would go to their owners, while only fall would be 'naturally passed'. If she had taken down penny and good the winter maidens power complete, it would be possible that both powers would be passed down in order.
With Cinder, why not both? She can become a hound with the maiden powers. At the final hour, she can despise having a master and unleash her fully realised maiden powers, which we saw in the last volume destroyed the grimm on her. If she became a hound she could choose to sacrafice herself to destroy what she's become and be free.
How does the expression go: "No Pain No Gain"? well I'm sure Salem can oblige Cinder on both fronts. Just not in the way Cinder wanted while Emerald, Neo and maybe Oscar as well might be made to watch what happens to those who put their wishes before Salem's own. I just hope whatever happens to Cinder we get her back story before the mid-volume break, It would be a good cut away point, we get Cinder's backstory before or maybe during her punishment and then we don't see what becomes of her till the Volume's finale. That way the others get a chance to shine in the mean time.
I don't understand Neo's goals at this point really. Why did Cinder bring her to the whale? And why did she go with Cinder to the communications tower and show Ruby when asked what she wanted? Shouldn't she be out trying to kill Ruby if that is really her goal? Or if her real goal is to get the upper hand on Cinder, why would she show Ruby to Maria?
She can't exactly cut it off remember? We saw this in the battle of Penny and Winter as Winter cuts her grim arm off in Volume 7 and Cinder's arm grows back (very painfully as her voice actor did a wonderful job). Since Salem controls grim what if she can see through Her arm? or maybe It will just keep taking over, it was at like half of her arm and now it's at her shoulder.
I feel like the clock will strike midnight for Cinder well before the end of RWBY. Hell I suspect that the worst thing Salem or anyone else can do to her isn't to kill her or making her Hound 2.0 exactly, it would be to take away all of her power. Put her back to where she was scrubbing floors.
For me, if Cinder were to hit rock bottom, Emerald will have to die. In order for that to happen, there needs to be a bonding moment between the two, which allows for Cinder to lower her guard. At some point, Salem tried to kill her but Emerald defends her. After a losing fight, they escape. However, Emerald was dealt a fatal blow and would not survive. She dies in Cinder's arms, still proclaiming loyalty. This moment would break Cinder entirely and will send her down. In her lowest state, she starts seeing Emerald as a hallucination (how fitting), and that becomes her moral compass. This was actually a plot point in my long-abandoned fanfic. In that story, Cinder gets a redemption arc and becomes one of the good guys and lives at the end. When I had planned for the sequel, the first thing I wrote for my concept notes was "Cinder dies, full circle style".
Truth be told, we’d love to see her suffer and become the monster she really is. Edit: Nice shirt dude. Second edit: Do you think Salem is the only one who has tried to create hybrids? Maybe some messed up scientists made a deal with her so they could bind them together. However, in the time the RWBY series has begun, they created something where the human part is dominant over the grimm part. But notice something? I said part... not half. I loom over every single one of us. I destroy everything around me, no matter the consequences to my host. What am I?
One way or an other, I think Cinder will be shown mercy from RWBY & co., to get rid of her arm (zapped by silver eye and/or benificing Jaune's semblance) maybe she will perform the classical trope by immediatly showing she's not worthy of this, attaking them and be irredimably doomed. Or maybe it can goes to something more positive (I'm agree with you, the also classical "lone wolf type anti-vilain" is highly plausible). But for now I think it's important to wait for seeing Cinder's backstory... I think the more she would be seen miserable, the more chance she will have to be more or less reedemed.
I feel like Cinder is either gonna be hounded OR killed and have her maiden powers put into someone else forcefully like Emerald. We've seen Salem cut down people in a seconds notice for less, like Leo in v5. Cinder is pushing her luck in a space she has no business doing so in. Plus the irony of Cinder is her failures always stem from when she goes against her orders or the plan. Someone like that, who goes so against Salems speech in v6, definitely doesn't have a place with her.
I wonder if Cinder's grimm arm will allow Salem to take them from Cinder I mean it's just like you said about the grimm beetle that allowed Cinder to forcefully steal the Maiden powers to beginning with...however could she try to use the Maiden powers to bring back her daughters cause in episode 3 when Oscar meets Salem in her one hand is creating four small figures out of black smoke?
Also, I have an idea about what the opening could mean where Cinder is in pain. Maybe Salem is trying to control her arm to kill her. It would make sense, given that I believe Leo is the Grimm hound and he was killed in V5. Anyway, then while Cinder is in pain, Emerald could cut off the Grimm arm and then they escape from the Whale as the others from Salem's faction chase them.
I feel like Salem would turn Cinder full grimm or maybe corupt her mind to the point where she reprograms her back into line. Like make her absolutly loyal by removing her own free will and use her like a tool while trapping her conscious inside her own body
Hi Phoenix and community, What do you think about the call that Ilya got from Ghira Belladonna? He will bring to atlas the New White Fang? Will we see Lieutenant Bonesaw? What do you all think about this character coming back?
I can see Cinder becoming a grimm hybrid. I can also see her killing Penny and Raven, which would probably result in her getting those maiden powers. But, I wonder if Cinder would also be able to steal Salem's powers. I doubt it but that would be an interesting thing to see play out. Like, I can kind of see Cinder at least attempting too, and if she succeeds, I wonder if she's also absorb Salem's immortality as well as her magic. Not sure how it would work since I don't even know if Salem has an aura, which seems to be how Cinder steals the maiden powers, but you never know. I still think it'd be interesting to see play out.
Emerald will probably want to stop seeing cinder suffering and cut off cinder's arm for her whether cinder will like it or not. Maybe cinder will push away emerald because of this because of her power hungry nature? But this seems like a likely possibility
Unrelated to this current topic but I have a hot callout to make for chapter 8 (100 of the whole series), right after the two month hiatus. Chapter 1: Ruby Rose Chapter 100: Summer Rose Do it, RT.
So, I like this parallel between Cinder and Salem. As an example, by all rights Salem should be comparable to a god to Cinder and yet she disobeys happily. Almost as if she views Salem as fallible like the gods of light and darkness. Just interesting to consider that Salem might notice that and either relate to her or learn something.
*Finishes the video. Before facepalming* I did not think about the fact. About the possible correlation with each volume and hour. But now, I most certainly think cinder won't die anytime soon. Also here's a possible ironic part. Vol's 1 through 3: Human cinder. Vol's 4 through 6: Maiden Grimm arm cinder. Vol's 7 through 9: Mostly/half grimm maiden cinder. Vol's 10 through 12: Grimmfied maiden cinder and her death.
Is it even possible for cinder to remove her grim arm? In volume 7 it cut cut off and she grew it back so I doubt unless rwby uses her silver eyes the grim in cinder aint going anywhere.
There are three endings I see for Cinder: 1. Cinder Dies and Emerald get the power possibly 2. Cinder breaks away and becomes a player in the Ozpin and Salem war. 3. She becomes more grimmified and fully under Salem's control
Ok so this might be a bit off by a long shot but if the hound was made from a human could it be that summer rose is the hound becasue summer was the last person to try and fight salem as i said it a long shot
I don't think amputating the arm is a possibility, Winter cut the arm off before and all it did was grow back and probably sped up the assimilating process across her body. The only thing Cinder can do to get rid of it is go to Ruby and that.....probably wont happen.
My hope is that Salem decides to order a hacked Penny to kill Cinder to consolidate the maiden powers into a vessel that Salem views as more easily controlled.
So I have a theory. If the hound is part/fragment of a person.... Tyrion tail that got sliced off. I know different creature but still. He's sitting at her feet being patted like a dog. Also if Cinder has a Grimm arm... Maybe she has a Grimm eye as well. Just saying it could be a dormant thing that as well as the arm, takes over her body. Or even tracks her.
![[Arknights] The True Invicible | Blaze the Igniting Spark Showcase](/img/n.gif)
Fairy godmother said to king Harold, "I gave you you're happy ever after, and I can take it away just as easy" The same could be said about Salem especially when it comes to Cinder disobeying orders. Salem will take away her maiden powers with a snap of her fingers like Thanos. Maybe choosing a new host. Cinder is currently playing with fire, wearing a gasoline bodysuit, who's to say the Grimm whale can't see her movements and tell it's master. Happy ever after, Cinder might be getting her happy never again
Shrek 2 noice 👍
That also plays into the happily never again mention in the opening doesnt it?
I think the gaint jellyfish type grimm do that
@ Salem Moon-- or we could go more of “ BECAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR” “ MAGIC COMES WITH A PRICE” route. Salem decided she has had enough of Cinders disobedience, and make Cinder a full Grimm. And with that Cinder will finally get exactly what she wanted, strength and power but will lose all her humanity and intellect. Thus becoming a strong and powerful mindless monster forever a servant to an immortal Grimm witch.
But hey! She got what she wanted. Hope it was worth it.
If Salem could just choose when to take away Maiden powers and who to give them too, she'd have already given them all to Cinder, or have gotten more female pawns to give them to. As powerful as she is, I don't think Salem has any control over the Maiden powers. The same way Ozpin doesn't have any control over them. The two of them may have given birth to the four girls who originally had them, but the powers seem to be independent now.
Cinder like that one child who is angel to her parents but does the exact opposite thing when they turn around
My sister in a nutshell.
Didnt someone else say this with Neo?
Crab Man I honestly have no clue
@Orderdude she's younger way younger
@Orderdude like a good 5, 6 years younger
If she is Hounded, pray that she’s already House Broken.
Lol
Not really sure how they could do it but always thought the best ending for Cinder is for her to end up powerless and forgotten
true
Salem turning her into a Grimm beast, powerful and fearless as she desired, but devoid of humanity, freedom and most of her intellect, It would be also a proper "be careful what you wish for" ending
Phoenix/ Night thank you for keeping me interesting in rwby and your not caught up with RT drama .
I like the poetic justice of your idea.
Well it could be a good one but you have a bunch of interesting alternatives in my opinion
Another title for this episode could be Cinders "fall"😁
Aaaayyyyeee!
Yes
By this point it obvious Cinder was intended to be a failed villain considering her success to failure ratio is far worse than the other lieutenants and her own assets.
not really true tbh, Cinder has provided Salem with the most significant victories, that none of the other lieutenants matched. She destroyed beacon, gave them the power of the fall maiden, killed ozpin which temporarily disorientated the enemy's leadership. While she may have failed in haven, she also was the one who brought salem the relic.
none of the other lieutenants did anything close
@@H5011-p1m To be fair, her main goal in Beacon was to bring the relic of choice, so technically she failed the first one too, although it wasn't her fault!
@@anaemiliaalmeida7238
The relic was hidden, even Salem can’t find it. Looks like Salem didn’t really care that she didn’t get the relic
@@H5011-p1m That doesn't change the fact that the primary goal of the fall of Beacon was to retrieve the relic. Like I said it was not Cinder's fault!
@@anaemiliaalmeida7238
Yeah but Salem congratulated cinder for beacon. So it clearly it wasn’t a failure in her eyes. And that’s what really matters
Cinder: what is that?
Salem: you, in about 6 months
LMAO !!!
Guess Cinder is now confirmed to be RWBY’s version of Starscream.
Could you Imagine.
Salem: "What happened to you Cinder?"
Cinder: "I uh I fell off the whale..."
Salem grabs Cinder's throat.
Salem: "You are either lying or your stupid!!!!"
Cinder: "I'm stupid I'm stupid!!!"
Yikes... but true...
Literally tho...
Now all we need is Salem to turn into a tank and pew pew Cinder
@@teeonbates7570 I'm glad people still remember Generation 1
Ever since the first volume inside I knew she is the starscream to salem megatron!!
Your comment about the 12th hour Cinderella idea also works pretty well since midnight is known as the Witching hour. so would definitely be the time Salem would strongest/winning, definitely a literal darkest hour too.
I find it hilarious that Cinder, who has quite a bit experience as a maiden lost to Penny. Especially when Penny has very little experience as a maiden.
Penny is a robot. She is much stronger than a normal human, almost unreasonably strong as she isn't affected by injuries the same way as humans and doesn't have much of a power limit with her blasts. She can probably 1 hit KO most characters in RWBY, honestly.
@@ferryn6877 I am aware, but considering how powerful the maiden powers are. I thought Cinder would have at least ended the fight in a draw. However, Penny just wasted her.
for half the fight penny was on the run tho, the only reason penny won is because cinder didn't think penny would be able tosee through the illusion, this completely caught her off guard.
@@galaxy-eyesgarchomp9478 That is because Cinder was so power hungry, her arrogance weighed her down. in vol 1-3 Cinder was able to triumph because she was calm and collected, but now she is to consumed and obsessed with the Maidens power, she became to emotional which in turn clouded her judgement in battle. That is why she keeps losing
@@emeraldmorgan6644 Ah I see that makes it much clearer. Thank you for that explanation.
Notifications of Cinder possibly suffers and die this volume
My reaction: THIS IS THE BEST NEWS EVER!!!!!! 😭😭😭
I would agree but I'd say Roman being brought back would be better.
@@exquisitetoast3859 honestly I’m very glad he died in Volume 3, if he’d lived any longer he probably would’ve suffered massively from Volumes 4 & 5-itis.
I recently heard a totally crazy yet cool theory that The Hound is actually Torchwick post-devouring. Don;t know how that'd work, maybe his undiscovered semblance really is survival and it merged him with the Griffin to preserve his own life and caused the Grimm to mutate and resulting in no memory of a his human life. Its incredibly unlikely yet wacky idea. It'd be mighty awkward for Neo too if The Hound just started following her around in its free time without even understanding why it was so intrigued by the little Ice Cream midget.
Cinder is the ultimate problem child and I feel bad for anyone, even Salem for having to put up with her
Honestly, Salem would've had the lamp if it weren't for her lol
@@NarakunoHana100 At least Cinder got the lamp for Salem now though.
@@MrCAXA-tq1yc technically that was Neo, not Cinder
@@applebite57_37 You're not wrong. But, If it wasn't for Cinder recruiting Neo then Neo would still be chillin' in the streets of Mistral and she wouldn't have gotten that relic if Cinder didn't recruit her and order her to get the Relic of Knowledge.
@@NarakunoHana100 If Cinder didn't mess up in haven Salem would of had the lamp much earlier, team Rwby would never of learnt Salem's backstory and Haven would of been destroyed. Cinder disobeyed a direct order and involved ruby just to get revenge, Salem has every right to be pissed at her.
I have a personal theory regarding Jaune Arc’s backstory. When Jaune revealed that he has seven sisters and when we saw that family photo in Volume 6, I’m reminded of Ron Weasley’s family from Harry Potter. The Weasleys were a pureblood family of wizards distinguished for their flaming red hair and being poor. Both the Arc family and the Weasley family have a large number of siblings; seven sisters and one brothers in the former and six brothers and one sister in the latter. It’s not outright stated, but I believe RT drew some inspiration from the Weasley family to create the Arcs.
As we know, Jaune’s father, grandfather and great-grandfather were renowned Huntsmen and Jaune aspired to be like them. He states that he “just wasn’t good enough”, but I think there’s more going on than we know. Since Jaune’s father is a Huntsman, perhaps that’s the family’s only source of income, making just enough money for them to get by (though we don’t know what field of expertise the father is adept in). As for Jaune’s mother, she’s most likely a housewife similar to Molly Weasley from the aforementioned Harry Potter. She would have to be in order to take care of her children because, as I’m sure most can agree, a large family can lead to large struggles.
It’s tricky to determine how much money the Arc family makes, but if I had to guess, I would say that they weren’t completely poor. If my theory is correct, then maybe it would explain Jaune didn’t go to combat school when he was young and didn’t possess the same skill level as that of his future teammates. Maybe due to this hypothetical financial background, Jaune’s father likely taught his son how to use Crocea Mors at home. Then, Jaune cheated his way into Beacon Academy using fake transcripts and, well...the rest is history.
What do you think of this?
@@elpopman2055 regardless, Jaune more than earned his Huntsman license and made a few impressive accomplishments without unlocking his Semblance and lack of proper training: killing at least two Ursa both by himself and with Pyrrha’s help, holding back a Neckelavee in a brief contest of strength and holding his own and almost besting a full Maiden Powered Cinder Fall (granted Cinder was toying with Jaune and not fighting at her full capacity, but this is still a notable feat).
But in my opinion, Jaune truly came into his own in episode 4 of volume 8. During the chase scene, he was able to cut threw a swarm of Centinels while on a hover bike and pull off some very creative maneuvers with the Gravity Dust upgrades to his shield and that portable shield device. What’s more, Jaune made up for his lack of natural talent with a keen strategic mind
Do y’all remember that Salem doesn’t give two craps about the maidens😂 She even said it herself LMAO
And Hazel said that hurting and sending children to their deaths is wrong, so that's why he's hurting and killing children, and why he's helping Salem murder everyone, including children.
@@Super-Skrull Who knew people do irrational things when seeking revenge?
@@atheon4075 I that's the case, Hazel takes the 'irrational' part of the revenge to a never-before-seen and extra stupid height, then.
Now use those wits of yours to explain why Ironwood straight up murdered Sleet instead of locking him up or some shit.
Dance K Life-- so true, as Watts said the maidens are only a means to an end, it is the relic Salem is after. Notice she didn’t go after Raven, when the relic left the vault. The only person who cares about the maidens power is Cinder.
When and where? Because needs the maidens powers to unlock the vault for the relics.
I definitely feel like Cinder's whole thing is the destructive power of her fury and thirst for yet more power, and the self-destructive nature of those drives. We don't have her back story, but whatever caused her to develop those has long since been lost in the means to her end.
I think that her stroke of midnight may not be a redemptive/ sacrificial thing, because I think she will be over taken by the poison she's drawn into herself in pursuit of her goals. She's taken no heed as to the consequences of her choices and thus her fairy godmother was able to take advantage of her. My vote is Cinder will have one moment of horrifying clarity, realize she's been had, before her clock strikes midnight and the illusion of her agency dissolves. Now at this moment she may take one last "eff you" pot shot, but the fairy godmothers magic (with an emphasis on the fairy/fae part there lol) will dissipate and she'll be left with nothing of what she was before.
If she gets turned into a hybrid beast that ruby or Jaune has to defeat, it would be so fitting.
Please let it be jaune though
Nobody:
Phoenix: Cinder, you dIsOBediEnt ChiLddddd
So in the Harry Potter books Pettigrew is fighting Harry then lets go of Harry and the replacment hand Voldemort gave Pettigrew takes over and kills Pettigrew for disobeying, thats what i feel will happen the hand will come to life and kill Cinder and in the moment Neo and maybe Emreld exit stage left.
Oh god I really want the "Cinder going her own path" thing
The hound look like One of Salem daughter toy
Oh you're actually kind of right, I forgot about the dog toy.
I hadn't made that connection but you're totally right. I might make a video relating to that idea
Could you imagine if Cinder decides to forget getting more power and decides she just wants to kill ruby
The Hound is Zwei’s mom. Not Ruby’s!
Ooh, after today's new episode: "Midnight." For Rooster Teeth FIRST, this possible fate for Cinder is now at the forefront of my mind for what's coming next.
Why not both? She gets Grimmed by mommy Salem. Then, at the final hour, she takes her revenge by making it easier for Ruby to finish the job, like what Vernal did to her in v5.
I’m really wondering if the hound was a person at one point who was it? Maybe Adam, Roman ( although I hope it’s not I hope he’s still alive and well and maybe he’ll bump into Neo some point), somebody else?
Summer. If it's Summer Rose that would add so much more weight to things than her having just died. We don't see the hound's eyes really [probably because the silver eyes had to be removed.
Remember at haven Academy the huntsmen and huntresses were gone and missing. I wonder if Tyrian hunted them down and then brought them all back to Salem to be experimented? And that is probably the same case with the Silver eyed warriors that were hunted down.
If we can recall her flashback or backstory, remember when she told Oz " Why redeem these humans when we can replace them with what they can never be?"
Maybe its lionheart? Could lead to an interesting interaction with oscar and ozpin
Mid theory-
So what if we ARE getting cinders back story. We got a hint in episode 1. But now, since cinder is knocked out, either episode 7 or the mid season finale is gonna be cinders backstory. What if that is the cliffhanger ! This is way off topic but it got my head thinking 😂
I like this idea. I think it will be Nora’s though since she is also asleep
@@quinn-z2h omg you’re right !! I hope for either one 😂
The Grimm part taking over Cinder sounds a lot like Venom from Marvel, and Salem is like Knull, the one that controls it.
Anti-villan is the word you are looking for. Cinder has very selfish reasons for doing what she does, but the end result is a heroic deed being done. Given the right circumstances anyone can become a force for good or evil, and well... The enemy of my enemy.
Cinder is a danger to herself
Right ! She's the one sabotaging her own. That's so ironic of her.
Salem, I feel is disrespected with each and every one of Cinders actions and I question why she keeps her around when she could probably use the Grimm Herself to take the maiden powers.
When she strikes Cinder down It will be glorious
Quote by Salem herself: "Never underestimate the usefulnis of others".
Without Cinder, she wouldn't have the relic of knowlege right now.
@@EngineScypex Noo, Without Neo She wouldn't have the Relic of Creation.
@@lockskelington314 Uhm... I didn't try to disregard Neo's actions or boost Cinders success-rate. It's just that without Cinders part, Salem wouldn't have the relic now.
That Cinder failed again, while Neo gave Cinder the opportunity to redeem herself in front of Salem is another story.
@@EngineScypex If Cinder didn't mess up in Haven Salem would of had the lamp much earlier and potentially one extra question. Team Rwby would never of learnt Salem's backstory and Haven would of been destroyed and no longer a treat. Cinder disobeyed a direct order and involved Ruby and Co just to get her revenge, Salem has every right to be pissed at her, not all of Salems targets were reached.
@@bossmode3769 That's not completely true.
Heaven was more or less a failure, but that's not entirely Cinders fault.
For example you say Heaven would be destroyed, but that hasn't even something to do with Cinder. Blake outmatched Adam.
It's also questionable if Cinder ever had a chance to succeed at Heaven.
For that, she had to beat Raven - not a simple task, since she's much more experienced as a maiden then Cinder.
But the disobedience now changed a lot. If someone goes against directly against the orders, of course the future usefulnis is questionable.
I did notice Salem was happy when the message was out, did she want the world to know about her?
I think she does. Maybe, she's going to try to make all of Remnant submit to her which will be the total opposite of what Ruby's message was suppose to send : Hope.
I think Salem created the Hound by forcibly accelerating the evolution of Grimm intelligence to replace her need for human minions. Even a hundred of years haven't produced Grimm that have survived long enough to learn to become smart enough to outperform humanities collective wisdom. Salem likely has relied on human minions because waiting for an army of Grimm with human like intelligence to evolve naturally takes to long because they'll usually be killed long before another can appear. In the time it took to produce one, Ozpin could reincarnate multiple times to destroy them. However, if Salem's found a way to accelerate centuries of Grimm evolution to the same timespan from which normal Grimm were once born, then she no longer has need to wait centuries to produce Grimm at the peak of their abilities.
Around the time Volume 8 began, I started asking myself if the reason Salem has waited so long was not because of her own limitations, but the limitations of the Grimm. Now I wonder if the reason she's stopped hiding, is because she's learned to create Grimm that no longer possess those weaknesses.
Cinder seems more like the "Starscream" to Salem's "Megatron". We might get a fight between Salem and Cinder.
I like this theory of Cinder becoming the hound in some way, like her Grimm arm spreads all over her left side of her face so Salen can gain control. I just dont see her looking completely like the Hound tho, so her human body can still get the maidens powers.
I dont not think she will ever be free of the grimm arm since that was how she got the powers in the first place. Removing that could remove her powers.
Also because Cinder lost her arm and eye by Ruby, there is no way she would ever join her and her team.
So is that Grimm still chilling on top of beacon tower or...?
After seeing what was inside the house and I think we could all agree Salem turning her into a grim now is an extremely high possibility
I personally prefer the second option, as then we can explore more of Cinder's character. We barely know anything about Cinder and turning her into a Grimm would only mean that power corrupted her and she faced the consequences. It would be much more interesting for the audience to learn of her past and then take what the audience learned and use it in the development of her character in the future. Maybe Cinder, Neo, and Emerald could all run away and become anti-heroes. I think this is especially likely if Ruby and Neo talk and Neo learns that it was Salem's Grimm that killed Roman. Furthermore, Cinder has been set up since the beginning to be a villain that would be one of the final fighters that Team RWBY fights before Salem. The team has not had as close of a connection to Watts, Hazel, or Tyrian. I like the idea of Cinder helping to defeat Salem in the end of the series as well. In general, going down this route would make her a much more complicated and interesting characters in the show, depending on how it is executed.
Hey Phoenix I have an idea if you’re interested. How about a series where you follow each characters progression, (one at a time) discussing what you liked, disliked and give your other personal thoughts on said characters progression?
So why do we think that the hound is a corrupt person? Just bc it can talk? I find this really out of left field.
Not only can it talk, but it’s intelligent unlike other Grimm. Regular Grimm attack without strategy, and the ones that do have a little bit of strategy have been around for many many years. The Hound showed that it can talk, morph into other forms to best suit the situation, strategize by using someone as a shield, and even call for backup from other Grimm nearby. No other Grimm have behaved like this before. That’s why people think it could have an actual human mind behind it, possibly a skilled fighter.
also side note, what if the hound we have currently got its knowledge or what ever from leo lionheart? since his death was cannon and we saw him die to salem's orb, and it would kinda make sense, since his weapon was a shield + a crossbow type thing, and how he used oscars body as a sheild , idk idk food for thought
Phoenix I don’t know if you noticed this, but if the Cinder does die like you said at volume 12 (7:37). It will be somewhat reminiscent of the clock hitting midnight because 12:00am is equal to midnight so that is a pretty good idea.
Congratulations on 20k phoenix 👍👍👍
Thank you! It means a lot that you've been watching and commenting on my videos for as long as you have been, I really appreciate the support 😊
Cinder becomes punished for disobeying Salem!!!
Maybe next episode Neo go after Ruby alone.
@@lfz4611 Yep, she needs to delay her plans for a while.
Another completely different scenario i have is her actually obtaining all four maiden powers.
But since the powers were split into 4 different maidens, the power of all 4 in 1 would be to much for a single body to handle;
and she would explode from the overwhelming energy inside her.
A poetic end to a villain who craves so much power, no matter how much she obtains, it cannot satisfy her hunger for it, would die by acquiring to much of it.
Personally though, i see Cinder surviving as herself until the final season.
she might get some more grimmification along the way, but a part of her would survive and resurface at the end.
Even surviving Salem as a villain.
The last one standing, even after her 'master' has fallen, defiant to the end as she is.
The whole Cinderella story of the stroke of midnight suggest she would survive until the end before returning to what she once was. A normal girl with no maiden powers.
It would be nice to see the first major villain to be the last one remaining in the series.
It would be more of a grudge match between her and at this point obviously Ruby in a brutal 1 on 1.
So for this to be the case i fear Cinder may have to up her kill count of people Ruby cares deeply about to make that 1 final battle be more then just the endgame.
If Oz made the maidens by sharing his powers, is he not capable of taking the power back?
I've often wondered that myself. Since the Maiden powers are transferrable, there's no logical reason Ozma couldn't reabsorb his own power.
With the first scene of this volume, I think they want throw us for a loop, and making a reveal/backstory that want us to sympathize with Cinder, maybe something along the lines of Puella Magica with Homura. According to that, Cinder's future may be tragic and fucked up, perhaps with some body horror added to the mix.
I really wanna see the FULL extent of Salem's powers. We saw SOME of Salem’s magic against Oscar and it... was pretty scary huh? But it obviously wasn't her maximum power because...... Oscar would be dead. I feel like Salem’s magic is DIFFERENT from the Maiden powers. Because with the Maidens, you control the elements. Creating storms, blasting fire, etc. But that’s the extent of a Maiden’s power. They can ONLY control the elements. But Salem doesn’t have that restriction. Wonder when we’ll get to see Salem’s TRUE power. Maybe against a subordinate who hasn’t been carrying her weight. A subordinate who JUST recently defied her orders and still came back with nothing. Cinder has taken on 3 Maidens, 4 if count Fria. She’s won once, and lost 3 other times. She can barely take MAIDEN magic. Imagine her trying to take magic on the same level as the Gods.... Cinder’s not lookin to good.
Salem is 4 times more powerful than any maiden that's ever existed , the maidens are just Ozma split magic which he gave to them. Salem is from the first generation of humans which were far superior than the human in the show currently. Plus Salem's had a millennia to harness her magic, and on top of that the Grimm corruption which can add something else to her magic. At this stage Salem is probably 10 or 15 times more powerful than any maiden, she could probably kill all the maidens at the same time easily. That was just basic shit which she did to Oscar, her magic is completely broken at this stage. Anyone who challenges her is dead on sight
Can I note a design detail of Cinder's between the Battle of Haven and the Attack on Atlas? If you notice closely in her Haven Outfit her "Shadow Arm" only reaches up to her lower forearm. Now look at her Atlas Outfit. We get a better look at her "Shadow Arm" and its changed, larger, and has covered her severed arm up to her shoulder. Your Second Hound theory might come to fruition cause I believe that its slowly consuming her, which will also mean that she will have a hard time breaking off of Salem's faction.
I just now see, compared to volume 6, where Cinders Grimm arm only goes past her elbow, in volume 8 it's all the way up to her shoulder. Maybe it's slowly corrupting her this whole time
Speaking about Cinder, I am wondering how much the Grimm arm is going to encroach Cinder's body (after she got laserbeamed and fried into the Amity satellite wall by Penny). She started at about Elbow length, after the fight with Raven and she got her aura broken it seems like it grew up to Cinder's entire shoulder. So maybe now covers her chest cavity?
When Cinder gets back to Salem, Salem gonna take off her slipper and whoop her ass!
somthing tells me that salem ordered tyrian to hunt a certi few huntsmen who has enough potentiol and dips them to the grimm pool and see the resalts. seeing that salem still has her magic while becoming a part grimm she wanted to know annd test if normalppl can do the same
A theory I got is that Grimm river is an assembly line. Salem has trapped the city and she still hasn’t crushed them, the only reason I see why is she is preparing to set up an army of those super Grimm. Use the river to cut through the town and into the masses. Now what would speed up the process. I mean if a river could run into a basin like a lake or a crater per say, then that would not only flip team Rwby’s goal to protect the people on its head, but the teams and the survivors would be outnumbered, outgunned and surrounded causing them to flee. Now to protect Atlas General Ironwood could say give up mantle like he wanted and save Atlas in by waving the white flag and giving Salem a pool of Grimm juice, giving her a literal pool of MANpower to use to just overwhelm any attempts of a last stand at Shade academy. And if Cinder were to fall into a near death state, all Salem needs to do is just push her in with her foot.
Are you going to do more of your OC videos soon?
Just so you know, Monty, rest his soul, apparently had drafted as many as _20_ volumes for RWBY.
I'm inclined to think Cinder will strike out on her own by the end of this Volume or the next. If we're following a twisted version of a Cinderella story, Salem is the wicked stepmother that promised Cinder everything (which she probably would have gotten if not for her impatience) but Cinder breaks away from her only to have nothing now.
I really wanna know if you like the whole Mercury saves Oscar theory
Given what I've witnessed of her, Cinder is a hardcore sociopath whose actions have long ago crossed the moral event horizon -- a threshold once crossed, there is nothing you can do to go back. At this point, with all she's done and suffered through, and all she's inflicted on others in the name of her own gain, it seems she will readily sacrifice anything to acquire more power the moment any such opportunity presents itself... and I more than see the possibility of her tossing Emerald under the bus in the near future in that same name, or at least doing something so monumentally heinous that it finally drives Emerald away from her side. At that point, Cinder will probably discover just how difficult her existence is without anyone to lean on, much less trust. I don't see a redemption arc in her future, not at all, but a 'owning up to your mistakes' moment/sacrifice may occur, if certain developments are met and backstory meted out. Cinder's origins are still up for the taking, which could provide the extra kick in making who and what she is, has, and may still become.
Either way, and all things said and done, I still think RWBY's writing team is just a smidgen too inept to handle the darker and more complex storyline they've chosen to portray ever since Volume 3 ended (what a waste they made of Adam Taurus comes to mind), and as such I don't think I can predict much of anything with clear certainty in the route they will take any longer, so anything is quite possible, if at the cost of poor writing decisions. I still despise what sort of person they made Hazel into, among a great many other things. Making Ironwood murder Sleet was another of most recent memory that brings me nothing but further doubt, because fuck's sake writers, he could have JUST LOCKED THE MAN UP, GOD DAMMIT. AH, YES HARRIET AND ACE-OPS, HE JUST FUCKING MURDERED A CIVILIAN IN COLD BLOOD JUST BECAUSE HE WANTED ANSWERS ON WHY YOUR INTREPID LEADER IS ACTING LIKE A TOTAL FUCKING DICTATORIAL DESPOT OUT OF THE BIG WIDE BLUE ALL OF A SUDDEN, LET'S KEEP FOLLOWING HIM BECAUSE WE WERE TRAINED NOT TO ASK QUESTIONS, HURR-DURR. RWBY IS CLEARLY THE BAD GUYS HERE. 'I HAD YOU KIDS PEGGED FROM THE START'... FUCK YOU.
I'd love to see Cinder go off on her own, especially if it ended up with Raven+Penny+Cinder in a 3v1 against Salem or her lieutenants.
It would be interesting to see Cinder trying to redeem herself but this should happen when she starts to realize that what she and Salem is doing is wrong and evil and Cinder realize that there's good paths and fates better than where's she's at right now.
One thing I've noticed since I started watching your videos is that you and I think a lot alike.
i remember, you making a video about how if penny or raven dies, that the maiden power will go to cinder, because she absorbed some of there powers. which does make sense, but seeing how disobedient cinder is and not wanting to listen and follow order, pursuing her own goals. thoughts on cinder dying and the maiden power be passed to ruby? because cinders hatred for ruby is probably more then she loves anyone, not even emerald. that could be an interesting theory, and also if cinder does decide to leave salem, i feel like she would go after ruby right away at all cost and try to kill her. however, if she is only part grim and not full grim, i also wonder how ruby's silver eyes will effect cinder. since she probably won't completely be turned to stone, but it would also kill off all the grim inside of her and salem won't be able to control cinder. these ruby theories are pretty interesting tho. maybe this theory that i have might be worth making a video about.
I see Cinder as a Saturday morning cartoon villain now and lemme tell ya it’s entertaining.
Maybe a lone wolf aspect can be vengeance or lone wolf goals....
The irony!!! Before the fall of beacon cinder talked about "arrogance" to oz, now it's clearly cinder and salem ego that goes ramped!!!
If someone whos holding multiple maiden powers dies, does the power of all maidens go to the last person on their thoughts? or do they get split up randomly again?
I would say it depends on the situation or to be more clear if the power is 'complete' or not.
At the moment, Cinder has the full power of the fall maiden, but only a fraction of spring and winter:
So probably spring and winter would go to their owners, while only fall would be 'naturally passed'.
If she had taken down penny and good the winter maidens power complete, it would be possible that both powers would be passed down in order.
Funny thing, I actually wondered the same thing regarding Cinder becoming a second hound a couple weeks ago
With Cinder, why not both?
She can become a hound with the maiden powers. At the final hour, she can despise having a master and unleash her fully realised maiden powers, which we saw in the last volume destroyed the grimm on her. If she became a hound she could choose to sacrafice herself to destroy what she's become and be free.
you gonna make a video about the unnamed dragon continent how it will influence the story
How does the expression go: "No Pain No Gain"? well I'm sure Salem can oblige Cinder on both fronts. Just not in the way Cinder wanted while Emerald, Neo and maybe Oscar as well might be made to watch what happens to those who put their wishes before Salem's own. I just hope whatever happens to Cinder we get her back story before the mid-volume break, It would be a good cut away point, we get Cinder's backstory before or maybe during her punishment and then we don't see what becomes of her till the Volume's finale. That way the others get a chance to shine in the mean time.
I don't understand Neo's goals at this point really. Why did Cinder bring her to the whale? And why did she go with Cinder to the communications tower and show Ruby when asked what she wanted? Shouldn't she be out trying to kill Ruby if that is really her goal? Or if her real goal is to get the upper hand on Cinder, why would she show Ruby to Maria?
She can't exactly cut it off remember? We saw this in the battle of Penny and Winter as Winter cuts her grim arm off in Volume 7 and Cinder's arm grows back (very painfully as her voice actor did a wonderful job). Since Salem controls grim what if she can see through Her arm? or maybe It will just keep taking over, it was at like half of her arm and now it's at her shoulder.
I feel like the clock will strike midnight for Cinder well before the end of RWBY. Hell I suspect that the worst thing Salem or anyone else can do to her isn't to kill her or making her Hound 2.0 exactly, it would be to take away all of her power. Put her back to where she was scrubbing floors.
For me, if Cinder were to hit rock bottom, Emerald will have to die.
In order for that to happen, there needs to be a bonding moment between the two, which allows for Cinder to lower her guard.
At some point, Salem tried to kill her but Emerald defends her. After a losing fight, they escape. However, Emerald was dealt a fatal blow and would not survive. She dies in Cinder's arms, still proclaiming loyalty. This moment would break Cinder entirely and will send her down.
In her lowest state, she starts seeing Emerald as a hallucination (how fitting), and that becomes her moral compass.
This was actually a plot point in my long-abandoned fanfic. In that story, Cinder gets a redemption arc and becomes one of the good guys and lives at the end. When I had planned for the sequel, the first thing I wrote for my concept notes was "Cinder dies, full circle style".
Truth be told, we’d love to see her suffer and become the monster she really is.
Edit: Nice shirt dude.
Second edit: Do you think Salem is the only one who has tried to create hybrids? Maybe some messed up scientists made a deal with her so they could bind them together. However, in the time the RWBY series has begun, they created something where the human part is dominant over the grimm part. But notice something? I said part... not half.
I loom over every single one of us. I destroy everything around me, no matter the consequences to my host.
What am I?
One way or an other, I think Cinder will be shown mercy from RWBY & co., to get rid of her arm (zapped by silver eye and/or benificing Jaune's semblance) maybe she will perform the classical trope by immediatly showing she's not worthy of this, attaking them and be irredimably doomed. Or maybe it can goes to something more positive (I'm agree with you, the also classical "lone wolf type anti-vilain" is highly plausible).
But for now I think it's important to wait for seeing Cinder's backstory... I think the more she would be seen miserable, the more chance she will have to be more or less reedemed.
12 chapters for midnight and then the 13th chapter referencing the fairy hour
I feel like Cinder is either gonna be hounded OR killed and have her maiden powers put into someone else forcefully like Emerald.
We've seen Salem cut down people in a seconds notice for less, like Leo in v5. Cinder is pushing her luck in a space she has no business doing so in.
Plus the irony of Cinder is her failures always stem from when she goes against her orders or the plan. Someone like that, who goes so against Salems speech in v6, definitely doesn't have a place with her.
I wonder if Cinder's grimm arm will allow Salem to take them from Cinder I mean it's just like you said about the grimm beetle that allowed Cinder to forcefully steal the Maiden powers to beginning with...however could she try to use the Maiden powers to bring back her daughters cause in episode 3 when Oscar meets Salem in her one hand is creating four small figures out of black smoke?
farfetched theory: summer was used in the creation of the Hound 1.0
Also, I have an idea about what the opening could mean where Cinder is in pain. Maybe Salem is trying to control her arm to kill her. It would make sense, given that I believe Leo is the Grimm hound and he was killed in V5. Anyway, then while Cinder is in pain, Emerald could cut off the Grimm arm and then they escape from the Whale as the others from Salem's faction chase them.
I feel like Salem would turn Cinder full grimm or maybe corupt her mind to the point where she reprograms her back into line. Like make her absolutly loyal by removing her own free will and use her like a tool while trapping her conscious inside her own body
I think you should mention why gylnda goodwitch appeared in v8 episode 5
Torchwick did say he's going to lie steal cheat AND SURVIVE... That's one way to do it, i guess
Hi Phoenix and community,
What do you think about the call that Ilya got from Ghira Belladonna? He will bring to atlas the New White Fang?
Will we see Lieutenant Bonesaw?
What do you all think about this character coming back?
How would she sever it? Since her arm was cut off several times in V7 and it grew back
When are you going to make the next two members of team SRPH? I would like to see them soon.
I can see Cinder becoming a grimm hybrid. I can also see her killing Penny and Raven, which would probably result in her getting those maiden powers. But, I wonder if Cinder would also be able to steal Salem's powers. I doubt it but that would be an interesting thing to see play out. Like, I can kind of see Cinder at least attempting too, and if she succeeds, I wonder if she's also absorb Salem's immortality as well as her magic. Not sure how it would work since I don't even know if Salem has an aura, which seems to be how Cinder steals the maiden powers, but you never know. I still think it'd be interesting to see play out.
I disagree 😀
and if she's does brake free and rips off the arm I think she should replace it with glas her semblance
Emerald will probably want to stop seeing cinder suffering and cut off cinder's arm for her whether cinder will like it or not. Maybe cinder will push away emerald because of this because of her power hungry nature? But this seems like a likely possibility
Unrelated to this current topic but I have a hot callout to make for chapter 8 (100 of the whole series), right after the two month hiatus.
Chapter 1: Ruby Rose
Chapter 100: Summer Rose
Do it, RT.
So, I like this parallel between Cinder and Salem. As an example, by all rights Salem should be comparable to a god to Cinder and yet she disobeys happily. Almost as if she views Salem as fallible like the gods of light and darkness. Just interesting to consider that Salem might notice that and either relate to her or learn something.
*Finishes the video. Before facepalming*
I did not think about the fact. About the possible correlation with each volume and hour.
But now, I most certainly think cinder won't die anytime soon.
Also here's a possible ironic part.
Vol's 1 through 3: Human cinder.
Vol's 4 through 6: Maiden Grimm arm cinder.
Vol's 7 through 9: Mostly/half grimm maiden cinder.
Vol's 10 through 12: Grimmfied maiden cinder and her death.
Even if cinder cut off the grim arm and managed to escape... Won't Salem be able to find her again using The Hound the same way it found Oscar?
Is it even possible for cinder to remove her grim arm? In volume 7 it cut cut off and she grew it back so I doubt unless rwby uses her silver eyes the grim in cinder aint going anywhere.
There are three endings I see for Cinder:
1. Cinder Dies and Emerald get the power possibly
2. Cinder breaks away and becomes a player in the Ozpin and Salem war.
3. She becomes more grimmified and fully under Salem's control
Ok so this might be a bit off by a long shot but if the hound was made from a human could it be that summer rose is the hound becasue summer was the last person to try and fight salem as i said it a long shot
I don't think amputating the arm is a possibility, Winter cut the arm off before and all it did was grow back and probably sped up the assimilating process across her body. The only thing Cinder can do to get rid of it is go to Ruby and that.....probably wont happen.
My hope is that Salem decides to order a hacked Penny to kill Cinder to consolidate the maiden powers into a vessel that Salem views as more easily controlled.
So I have a theory. If the hound is part/fragment of a person.... Tyrion tail that got sliced off. I know different creature but still. He's sitting at her feet being patted like a dog. Also if Cinder has a Grimm arm... Maybe she has a Grimm eye as well. Just saying it could be a dormant thing that as well as the arm, takes over her body. Or even tracks her.