Big fan of you doing videos like this. Great coverage of this issue. It’s ok to just stick a camera on a tripod. Your camera person was getting tired here. A $50tripod is all you need for most situations.
I wish you had brought up your 451, with it’s keel and dagger board combination. It seems another option by having a fuller keel to protect the hull in grounding, ability to support the hulls when on the dry, yet with a dagger board for upwind performance. Perhaps it does offer a more centered ‘balance’ to the equation, or do you consider it ‘dated’? I ask as it’s at the top of my list as my ‘next’.
The 451 is being phased out and replaced by the brand new 442 being built in South Africa. The 442 will incorporate all the innovative new features that we pioneered on the 526. The 451 was a great boat for its time but now seems very dated by comparison.
Out of curiosity, can you still beach the cat using the vestigial keels? It seems like you wouldn't be. I feel like that is probably the biggest argument FOR keels, but how often does one actually beach their cat?
Outremer have sacrificial keels just in front of the saildrive. What made you choose to put them further forward? If they were further back wouldn't that aid the playfulness off the wind?
Hello. We have a Gemini 105 M. We are converting it to the power (mast removed). We’re trying to figure out if we still need the centerboards. We already removed the rudders. Installed 2 yamaha f70 motors. Purpose-crossing from the Miami to Bahamas. We cant figure it out. Manual says that it is not recommended to use them while motoring due to the drag. Is there any purpose in them for our use in it? Those are 300lb each. So looks like unnecessary weight. Thank you.
Alex, Phil here. Sorry, I am not able to remain active on this channel. Our bows are foam crash boxes. And our floors in the forepeak are watertight bulkheads. Our engine rooms are watertight bulkheads. If a daggerboard hits something hard over 8 knots it will break away and behind it there is a foam crush box. The only reason you would ever abandon a Balance would be if you had a catastrophic fire. The boat is unsinkable otherwise. In any disabling event you always stay with the boat, it is a far better life raft than the sorts you must carry on a monohull that can sink. One of our customers commented to me that Balance has the longest shake down cruise of most manufacturers. Proud to say that of the 40 or so that have crossed North so far we have never had a lost rig or structural mishap and all the boats have arrived in Grenada safely.
Centerboards have several drawbacks. They actually take up more interior space inside the vessel, they are more complicated to operate, their control surfaces are too fragile, they're more difficult to repair, etc. They are certainly not impossible to break, actually just the opposite, their control mechanisms break much more frequently than daggerboards. In our opinion, they just aren't a practical option for a full size catamaran. I can tell you from my own experience operating catamarans with both setups that daggerboards are by far the better option.
Would it be possible to automate the position of the daggerboards, and have them controlled by some kind of software. I can Imagine that if you make is with an AI it will learn from the owners sailing preference. And with forward facing sonar you can even retract them when obstacles are detected
Centerboards have several drawbacks. They actually take up more interior space inside the vessel, they are more complicated to operate, and their control surfaces are too fragile. It is not a practical option for a full size catamaran, which is why they have almost always been quickly phased out on any models that did attempt using them.
So McConaghey's design doesn't work? They are a pretty advance boat builder. Everything is a compromise but I would think it would provide the best of both worlds and add safety in case of a dagger board strike.
@@rsallen13 As you say, everything is a compromise. Based on my own experiences operating large performance catamarans with both designs, daggerboards are the far superior option.
Phil: I have sent you Emails as well as making comment asking for a chance to talk to you about SCABBOARDS and yet I have not had the courtesy of a response. Might I ask once more: I am willing to fly too meet with you should you be so kind as to contact me. Norman Cook
Personally, I never understood why you’d pay for a performance cat and omit dagger boards. Feels like getting a Ferrari and putting really crappy wheels on it. Jmho
![[Watch Party] RoV APL 2024 Bacon VS TDT ( AlmonP Wanoiz )](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LvZvKzu3VSk/mqdefault.jpg)
Big fan of you doing videos like this. Great coverage of this issue.
It’s ok to just stick a camera on a tripod. Your camera person was getting tired here. A $50tripod is all you need for most situations.
Superb explanation ! Thank you .
Great overview. Thanks
Great vid!
You guys aren't cheap, but then again you build kickass boats... 😉🙂👍
These are my dream boats. So cool. Yeah, I know the competition is stiff but this brand speaks to me.
Thank you, Humberto! So many people say the same thing :)
Love to see a on water comparison - Same model , same sails ? What's your thoughts on a protected hung rudder ?
I wish you had brought up your 451, with it’s keel and dagger board combination. It seems another option by having a fuller keel to protect the hull in grounding, ability to support the hulls when on the dry, yet with a dagger board for upwind performance.
Perhaps it does offer a more centered ‘balance’ to the equation, or do you consider it ‘dated’?
I ask as it’s at the top of my list as my ‘next’.
The 451 is being phased out and replaced by the brand new 442 being built in South Africa. The 442 will incorporate all the innovative new features that we pioneered on the 526. The 451 was a great boat for its time but now seems very dated by comparison.
The idea of the vestigial keel is brilliant, especially if after say a year of sailing (especially in the shallow Bahamas) they can be removed.
Have you considered trying rotating centerboards?
Does Balance offer direct/shaft drive as an option?
Depends if u want to sail or not.
Out of curiosity, can you still beach the cat using the vestigial keels? It seems like you wouldn't be. I feel like that is probably the biggest argument FOR keels, but how often does one actually beach their cat?
Did u find out, love to know?
Outremer have sacrificial keels just in front of the saildrive. What made you choose to put them further forward? If they were further back wouldn't that aid the playfulness off the wind?
They are designed to support the weight of the boat when it is hauled out and blocked in the yard. That is not possible if they are further aft.
Can you beach a Balance Catamaran with keels instead of daggerboards?
Absolutely
Hello. We have a Gemini 105 M. We are converting it to the power (mast removed). We’re trying to figure out if we still need the centerboards. We already removed the rudders. Installed 2 yamaha f70 motors. Purpose-crossing from the Miami to Bahamas. We cant figure it out. Manual says that it is not recommended to use them while motoring due to the drag. Is there any purpose in them for our use in it? Those are 300lb each. So looks like unnecessary weight.
Thank you.
If you are converting a Gemini to a power cat you do not need center boards or daggerboards.
@@balancecatamarans Thank you!
so what happens if you hit something like a container in the middle of a crossing, which option is safer and will not cause you to abandon ship?
Alex, Phil here. Sorry, I am not able to remain active on this channel. Our bows are foam crash boxes. And our floors in the forepeak are watertight bulkheads. Our engine rooms are watertight bulkheads. If a daggerboard hits something hard over 8 knots it will break away and behind it there is a
foam crush box. The only reason you would ever abandon a Balance would be if you had a catastrophic fire. The boat is unsinkable otherwise. In any disabling event you always stay with the boat, it is a far better life raft than the sorts you must carry on a monohull that can sink. One of our customers commented to me that Balance has the longest shake down cruise of most manufacturers. Proud to say that of the 40 or so that have crossed North so far we have never had a lost rig or structural mishap and all the boats have arrived in Grenada safely.
Why don't you use centerboards? They perform just as well as dagger boards but they are near impossible to break.
Centerboards have several drawbacks. They actually take up more interior space inside the vessel, they are more complicated to operate, their control surfaces are too fragile, they're more difficult to repair, etc. They are certainly not impossible to break, actually just the opposite, their control mechanisms break much more frequently than daggerboards. In our opinion, they just aren't a practical option for a full size catamaran. I can tell you from my own experience operating catamarans with both setups that daggerboards are by far the better option.
Would it be possible to automate the position of the daggerboards, and have them controlled by some kind of software. I can Imagine that if you make is with an AI it will learn from the owners sailing preference. And with forward facing sonar you can even retract them when obstacles are detected
Why not have a retractable center board option?
Centerboards have several drawbacks. They actually take up more interior space inside the vessel, they are more complicated to operate, and their control surfaces are too fragile. It is not a practical option for a full size catamaran, which is why they have almost always been quickly phased out on any models that did attempt using them.
So McConaghey's design doesn't work? They are a pretty advance boat builder. Everything is a compromise but I would think it would provide the best of both worlds and add safety in case of a dagger board strike.
@@rsallen13 As you say, everything is a compromise. Based on my own experiences operating large performance catamarans with both designs, daggerboards are the far superior option.
Will the vestigial keel support the weight of the boat on the hard?
Yes, it is designed to support the weight of the boat.
Phil: I have sent you Emails as well as making comment asking for a chance to talk to you about SCABBOARDS and yet I have not had the courtesy of a response.
Might I ask once more: I am willing to fly too meet with you should you be so kind as to contact me. Norman Cook
put end plates on ur keels and boards u will get more . much more next time u fly look at the wing tip duh
Personally, I never understood why you’d pay for a performance cat and omit dagger boards. Feels like getting a Ferrari and putting really crappy wheels on it. Jmho
Mumble mumble... cut the music