I look at wording: "Chance on Attack" - not a weapon pool skill, "Chance to be used"- weapon pool skill. You can apply devotions on "Chance to be used" skills, you cannot apply devotions on "Chance on Attack" skills.
That is bizarre how the probability adds up (for wps and devotion skills), I would have expected each wps, or ds to be independent, but then I guess you would end up with the chance of multiple procs at the same time, or would have to enforce a hierarchy. Pays to work out which ones give the most benefit, and ignore the ones that give the least, if you are exceeeding 100%. I always prefer the 'chance on attack' devotion skills, over 'chance on hit', but I may have to rethink that. I avoid 'chance on critical' devotion skills altogether since I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that I will not crit a boss.
"when used as your default weapon attack" How do you set a replacer skill to be your default weapon attack or do you just need to have it on your bar? Can you have more than one default weapon attack in the same build? When you use a default attack replacer, do the weapon stats, such as say "2-5 physical damage" still get applied?
You just need to put it on your bar, yes you can use multiple, but not on the same attack. Yes all flat damage will be added and multiplied by the %WeaponDamage of the default attack replacer skill.
So outside of the animation time, is there ever a reason to NOT use weapon pool skills? Like an exclusive RF or Savagery build with no replacers? Do you lose anything by having replacers?
It does seem that WPS together with cadence (in the case of Blademaster) just does not make use of the full potential of the WPS damage since Cadence overrides any chance of WPS.
WPS are good with Cadence if you are dual wielding. WPS force the char to always hit with both weapons and that will generate 2 cadence stacks instead of only 1. So if you have 100% chance to use a WPS, cadence hit will always proc every second instead of every third hit. WPS are kind of bad with 2h Cadence though, I agree.
Very clear and helpful video on a quite confusing topic. Thank you. When you say that WPS with slow animations can end up costing you DPS, does attack speed play into that at all? As you get higher attack speed do slow-animated WPS become less and less efficient?
I don't think attack speed should be the deciding factor, but rather how many points you have invested into the specific WPS and whether or not you have additional damage mods towards those WPS. Tbh I'm not sure about the attack speed though.
If I have 4x25%, I have 100% to proc a WPS and won't default attack ever again. But what is the next step in the logic chain? Which of the 4 will be the skill to attack with? At some point there has to be like a skill hierarchy to check? Like if I have all the nightblade WPS, and 4x25%=100%, does it roll execution first 25% to see if its the one and then move down to the least advanced skill tree item? What if I have skills from two different class trees entirely (smite + nightblade WPS skills)? Can you detail out the logic chain from initiating attack to resolving the attack? Or is there somewhere documenting that?
Which of those skills are random. If you have 4 skills with 25% chance to proc, then each of those skills have 25% chance of procking. This holds true even if you have skills from different mastery bars. You always have the probability the skill says it has unless you exceed 100%. There is no checked first, it works more like pulling one from a pool. Imagine you put marbles into a bag. Put one marble into a bag that corresponds to a certain skill for each % chance the skill has to proc, like 25 execution marbles if your execution skill has a 25% chance to proc. Do so for each skill. In your case, you put 25 marbles into the bag for each of the four skills since they all have a 25% chance of procking. Next, if the total amount of marbles are less than 100, then put default attack marbles into the bag until the total reaches 100. In your case, you already have 100, so that won't be needed. Finally, you pull one marble from the bag at random and whatever that marble is, that will be the proc skill used. I don't know how it's programmed, but in practice, this is how it works out.
@@rektbyprotoss Cool. I have an issue with a warder build focusing on bleeding. Level 85 and still in elite. www.grimtools.com/calc/r2BvlMD2 Focusing on cadence and bleeding but any advice on upheaval, tenacity of the boar, feral hunger, and savagery would be appreciated. Lastly, do you have a PayPal link? Heard how old your PC was last stream, and i've watched enough of your content.
in the case that I cannot stack 100% WPS, should I do my best to make it as high as possible (close to 100%) or just no? for example I play a 2 handed character with Necromancer as 1 of my masteries and Arcanist the other so I have just 2 WPS from Necromancer. Maximum in that case would just be 40%-50%, is it suboptimal to build a hitter in that case then? thanks
With the charge based skills does the 30% 50% 70% 110% or whatever mean that much _extra_ damage, or do you start off at 30% of your max and go up from there?
They do actually start out with less damage, e.g. savagery's first stack at 16/16 will deal 30%*150%WD = 45%WD, so less WD than your standard default attack (ignoring the flat dmg it also adds). The third stack has 65%, so 65%*150%WD = 97.5%WD. Adding all the flat dmg on top the third stack is usually your break even point. So when you use savagery, your first two stacks will deal less dmg than a standard default attack, 3rd stack about the same and at 4+ stacks you will deal significantly more dmg.
@@rektbyprotoss Thanks mate. Weird design choice. I understand encouraging getting in there and spamming attack (my natural playstyle) but putting a punish at the start is a bit odd. Oh well.
@@rektbyprotoss As you build up charges, do default attack replacers like Savagery augment the damage of WPS? As in: 150%WD from Savagery and 300%WD from Execution = 450%WD? or 350%WD? Or do the charges apply just the flat damage bonuses to WPS? Or do the charges just apply bonuses like Tenacity/Storm Touched from Savagery? Or do none of the charge bonuses apply when a WPS procs? Also, if you're building charges with a default attack replacer, will a WPS still build charges? Or will you not be able to build charges if you have 100% chance to use WPS? And does the charge bonus from Savagery affect bonuses from Tenacity/Storm Touched and the transmuter Might of the Bear? Or just the bonuses from the base skill?
So to say I have 4 different wps skills with 25 percent activation chance, does that mean I proc one of them everytime? In this scenario I would never do a standart attack instead of wps right?
@@undo8558 Can u confirm that the WPS attack (lets say u have 100% with 4) will take the base dmg of the initial auto attack replacer and add it's own damage bonus to it? It does not REPLACE the auto attack dmg right?
Thanks for the video. But the part with having 4 skills each with a 25% chance to proc all adding to 100% seems wrong. I'm not saying it is, I've only got like 50 hours in the game, but my brain doesn't like it. How I think it *should* work is the game asks the first skill if it works, and if it doesn't it goes to the next skill, etc. That's not 100% after all 4 skills. Even if you had 100 skills at 25%, that still wouldn't guarantee a skill would go off. So then that's not how the game does it? It just adds the skill percentages together and we get 100? EDIT - didnt look at other comments, already explained lol
Can u confirm that the WPS attack (lets say u have 100% with 4) will take the base dmg of the initial auto attack replacer and add it's own damage bonus to it? It does not REPLACE the auto attack dmg right?
Yes, but the acutal question is: if I have 4x25% activation chance, then does each individual attack still have a chance to fail... to be more precise, following the actual logic of wps it would mean that 100% activation through added chances does not actually mean 100% chance of using any wps, it would still mean that each wps is checked individually with a 75% chance to NOT proc on each skill. That would mean, that you could still proc default attacks without wps even if you had over 100% added wps chance. Do you know what I mean?
The chances add up additively for WPS. I know what you mean and that's how it would be, if the chances don't add up, but they do for WPS. so 4x25% actually means 0% chance of no WPS.
What timing. My friends and I just got into this game and this exact topic came up last night.
I look at wording: "Chance on Attack" - not a weapon pool skill, "Chance to be used"- weapon pool skill. You can apply devotions on "Chance to be used" skills, you cannot apply devotions on "Chance on Attack" skills.
Yep, that's a good way to look at it.
This is another very helpful video. Many thanks.
Thx! Have a question: what happens when you assign devotion proc on each wps? Will they also trigger? What are the best devotions to assign?
That is bizarre how the probability adds up (for wps and devotion skills), I would have expected each wps, or ds to be independent, but then I guess you would end up with the chance of multiple procs at the same time, or would have to enforce a hierarchy. Pays to work out which ones give the most benefit, and ignore the ones that give the least, if you are exceeeding 100%. I always prefer the 'chance on attack' devotion skills, over 'chance on hit', but I may have to rethink that. I avoid 'chance on critical' devotion skills altogether since I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that I will not crit a boss.
Really informative video - thank you.
really excellent content RPB thank you
*RBP :)
"when used as your default weapon attack" How do you set a replacer skill to be your default weapon attack or do you just need to have it on your bar? Can you have more than one default weapon attack in the same build? When you use a default attack replacer, do the weapon stats, such as say "2-5 physical damage" still get applied?
You just need to put it on your bar, yes you can use multiple, but not on the same attack.
Yes all flat damage will be added and multiplied by the %WeaponDamage of the default attack replacer skill.
@@rektbyprotoss Thanks! Your vids are very helpful.
So outside of the animation time, is there ever a reason to NOT use weapon pool skills? Like an exclusive RF or Savagery build with no replacers? Do you lose anything by having replacers?
They cost skill points, other than that, they are almost always worth it.
great explainer vid as always
It does seem that WPS together with cadence (in the case of Blademaster) just does not make use of the full potential of the WPS damage since Cadence overrides any chance of WPS.
WPS are good with Cadence if you are dual wielding. WPS force the char to always hit with both weapons and that will generate 2 cadence stacks instead of only 1. So if you have 100% chance to use a WPS, cadence hit will always proc every second instead of every third hit. WPS are kind of bad with 2h Cadence though, I agree.
Very clear and helpful video on a quite confusing topic. Thank you.
When you say that WPS with slow animations can end up costing you DPS, does attack speed play into that at all? As you get higher attack speed do slow-animated WPS become less and less efficient?
I don't think attack speed should be the deciding factor, but rather how many points you have invested into the specific WPS and whether or not you have additional damage mods towards those WPS. Tbh I'm not sure about the attack speed though.
If I have 4x25%, I have 100% to proc a WPS and won't default attack ever again. But what is the next step in the logic chain? Which of the 4 will be the skill to attack with? At some point there has to be like a skill hierarchy to check? Like if I have all the nightblade WPS, and 4x25%=100%, does it roll execution first 25% to see if its the one and then move down to the least advanced skill tree item? What if I have skills from two different class trees entirely (smite + nightblade WPS skills)?
Can you detail out the logic chain from initiating attack to resolving the attack? Or is there somewhere documenting that?
Which of those skills are random. If you have 4 skills with 25% chance to proc, then each of those skills have 25% chance of procking. This holds true even if you have skills from different mastery bars. You always have the probability the skill says it has unless you exceed 100%. There is no checked first, it works more like pulling one from a pool.
Imagine you put marbles into a bag. Put one marble into a bag that corresponds to a certain skill for each % chance the skill has to proc, like 25 execution marbles if your execution skill has a 25% chance to proc. Do so for each skill. In your case, you put 25 marbles into the bag for each of the four skills since they all have a 25% chance of procking. Next, if the total amount of marbles are less than 100, then put default attack marbles into the bag until the total reaches 100. In your case, you already have 100, so that won't be needed. Finally, you pull one marble from the bag at random and whatever that marble is, that will be the proc skill used.
I don't know how it's programmed, but in practice, this is how it works out.
Good explanation for beginners but some of the shamans skills are still confusing.
Upheaval be like that. If you have any particular questions, feel free to ask anything :)
@@rektbyprotoss Cool. I have an issue with a warder build focusing on bleeding. Level 85 and still in elite. www.grimtools.com/calc/r2BvlMD2
Focusing on cadence and bleeding but any advice on upheaval, tenacity of the boar, feral hunger, and savagery would be appreciated.
Lastly, do you have a PayPal link? Heard how old your PC was last stream, and i've watched enough of your content.
in the case that I cannot stack 100% WPS, should I do my best to make it as high as possible (close to 100%) or just no? for example I play a 2 handed character with Necromancer as 1 of my masteries and Arcanist the other so I have just 2 WPS from Necromancer. Maximum in that case would just be 40%-50%, is it suboptimal to build a hitter in that case then? thanks
With the charge based skills does the 30% 50% 70% 110% or whatever mean that much _extra_ damage, or do you start off at 30% of your max and go up from there?
They do actually start out with less damage, e.g. savagery's first stack at 16/16 will deal 30%*150%WD = 45%WD, so less WD than your standard default attack (ignoring the flat dmg it also adds). The third stack has 65%, so 65%*150%WD = 97.5%WD. Adding all the flat dmg on top the third stack is usually your break even point. So when you use savagery, your first two stacks will deal less dmg than a standard default attack, 3rd stack about the same and at 4+ stacks you will deal significantly more dmg.
@@rektbyprotoss Thanks mate. Weird design choice. I understand encouraging getting in there and spamming attack (my natural playstyle) but putting a punish at the start is a bit odd. Oh well.
@@rektbyprotoss As you build up charges, do default attack replacers like Savagery augment the damage of WPS? As in: 150%WD from Savagery and 300%WD from Execution = 450%WD? or 350%WD? Or do the charges apply just the flat damage bonuses to WPS? Or do the charges just apply bonuses like Tenacity/Storm Touched from Savagery? Or do none of the charge bonuses apply when a WPS procs?
Also, if you're building charges with a default attack replacer, will a WPS still build charges? Or will you not be able to build charges if you have 100% chance to use WPS?
And does the charge bonus from Savagery affect bonuses from Tenacity/Storm Touched and the transmuter Might of the Bear? Or just the bonuses from the base skill?
So to say I have 4 different wps skills with 25 percent activation chance, does that mean I proc one of them everytime? In this scenario I would never do a standart attack instead of wps right?
Yes
@@undo8558 ty
@@undo8558 Can u confirm that the WPS attack (lets say u have 100% with 4) will take the base dmg of the initial auto attack replacer and add it's own damage bonus to it? It does not REPLACE the auto attack dmg right?
@@projetsmith Yes it adds the auto attack replacers damage to the WPS.
Hi, thanks for the video! Really helping with my low lvl vitality rifle cabalist. One question- will soleal's witchfire apply to weapon pool skills?
Solael's witchfire's flat damage gets added to your weapon damage and thus is added to WPS, yes.
@@rektbyprotoss Thanks! Think I'm going to end up playing your chaos witchblade
Thanks for the video. But the part with having 4 skills each with a 25% chance to proc all adding to 100% seems wrong. I'm not saying it is, I've only got like 50 hours in the game, but my brain doesn't like it. How I think it *should* work is the game asks the first skill if it works, and if it doesn't it goes to the next skill, etc. That's not 100% after all 4 skills. Even if you had 100 skills at 25%, that still wouldn't guarantee a skill would go off. So then that's not how the game does it? It just adds the skill percentages together and we get 100?
EDIT - didnt look at other comments, already explained lol
Your brain is right, but the game's logic is different :D
Can u confirm that the WPS attack (lets say u have 100% with 4) will take the base dmg of the initial auto attack replacer and add it's own damage bonus to it? It does not REPLACE the auto attack dmg right?
That is correct, it uses the full dmg of your default attack replacer as base dmg.
!play in the chat not over the chat
Nice
So complicated.
Yes, but the acutal question is: if I have 4x25% activation chance, then does each individual attack still have a chance to fail... to be more precise, following the actual logic of wps it would mean that 100% activation through added chances does not actually mean 100% chance of using any wps, it would still mean that each wps is checked individually with a 75% chance to NOT proc on each skill. That would mean, that you could still proc default attacks without wps even if you had over 100% added wps chance. Do you know what I mean?
The chances add up additively for WPS. I know what you mean and that's how it would be, if the chances don't add up, but they do for WPS. so 4x25% actually means 0% chance of no WPS.
@@rektbyprotoss Ok thank you for clarifying!
@@rektbyprotoss Bzw. danke für die Erläuterung! Mann, ich sollte mir angewöhnen dich auf Deutsch anzureden.
@@ratatoskr1069 :D gerne
it's a shame the tooltips in this game are so bad
which language is he speaking
You talk too fast :(
you can try 0.5 speed