I think it would be interesting to harvest the slugs out of these particular shells and then do your own load and packing to see if you can produce a more stable overall cartridge. Just a thought.
It's a weirdly gimmicky design, so yeah, I'd really like to see it work as intended to see if it does anything interesting. Why they made it push the tip forward instead of just making it the shape it ends up as to begin with is beyond me.
I sure hope they actually do that the powder may be the main issue here as for the weird multi piece design, maybe they where trying to reduce felt recoil or something? then again, it's only by maybe a fraction of a split second, so perhaps it has something to do with manufacturing and/or the expansion gimmick
@@taofledermaus, can you guys send word to that Machinist guy that makes prototype ammo that you guys occasionally test out, that the AK Guy Brandon Herrera is looking for machinist help with getting some of the parts made on the AK-50. I always think it's great when the YT Gun Community helps one another out.
@@taofledermaus, I thought the Machinist guy lived in Texas, which is why I was asking. Also, I thought he'd be more likely to respond if it was you who was asking. Any which way Brandon is looking for machinist help in getting the AK-50 parts done, could you ask any of the Taofleder fans that are machinists to contact Brandon Herrera?
Your channel has single handily gotten me interested in shotgun slugs. I use a 450 bushmaster for deer hunting because I want a quick, ethical kill where the deer doesn't suffer more than necessary & where I don't have to track it very far. I've seen many slugs on your channel that would be great for deer hunting. No sense in torturing the animal. It's about feeding my family, not delight of the kill. Keep up the great content. 👍
It's not about feeding your family. There is ZERO need to hunt for food. Modern agriculture provides everything you need. Hunting is a choice. Thus, you are looking at the enjoyment of the kill. Don't lie to yourself, it is unseemly.
@@ImpendingJoker People like you will be the first to die when you can't go buy food at the store. It's unseemly to insult someone for being self sufficient
It's almost tempting to break those down and replace that powder with something like Clays or another that is far less sensitive to temperature extremes. That would answer the question of whether the sabots were failing due to heat or pressure excursions.
Yeah, I think you are on the right track NMann... Jeff has enough recipes with Longshot or Clays that he could do that and rule out the powder issues ASAP. I would like to see him get the velocities up to around 1,750-1,900FPS too.
Doesn't seem like the sabot is the problem looks like it's burning way to slow when it's hot and melting the sabot the last round was moving far faster 🤣
@@taofledermaus Brenneke better send you some alternative to these shells because they need to compensate for this embarrassing shell performance. Yikes.
Glad you said they looked like the engines from the SR-71, my first thought when I saw the thumbnail was that they looked like some sort of high performance jet engine. Shame about their performance though, nothing like a Blackbird.
I'd be curious to see how they tested and justify their 100+ yds claim. If they didn't test them, why send them to you knowing they may fail? If they did, what was different that they didn't get the same results you did?
I bought the Brenneke sabot rounds when they first came out. They had decent accuracy but seemed to be hot loaded. I put a hole clear through a Datsun sedans engine block. You could squat on one side and see daylight through the hole. That was from a mossberg 500 with 18 inch barrel from around 10 feet. But that was literally from the first rounds of brenneke to hit the market. I was single and had spare money. They were expensive. Oh yeah, it was IC cylinder barrel. Smooth bore.
you managed to squeeze those slugs though an IC choke? I've got a pile of those super sabots but have never fired them because I'm too lazy to swap out my IC choke for a cyl. The slug is larger than the diameter of an IC choke by a substantial amount. I was worried about damaging my barrel.
@@xm15ar lol. I just administered the coup de grace. It had been abandoned out in the boonies of Southern Oregon on a fire road. It had been shot up a bunch. That was back in the mid 80s. Back then they were left wherever they were without being hauled away. Good for target practice though! 👍
@@NorthernBCFlyGuy it was improved cylinder. Which is a slightly smaller barrel end. No actual choke involved. It just squeezed the load a little on the way out.
@@markmiller897 improved cylinder is the choke it is built into the last 3-4" of the muzzle end of barrel or may be a variable choke device( interchangeable tubes or a polychoke collet type) choke constriction muzzle diameter cylinder 0.000 .729" Imp cylinder 0.010 .719" modified 0.020 .709" full 0.035 .694" choke constriction makes a significant difference in barrel integrity
I'm still super happy we still haven't hit triple digits out here. It's muggy as Hell every day but 100+is death weather. Thank you boys for trudging through that miserable heat and making this content for us. You know we appreciate it. 🤙🏾
@E Van I think they were measuring in Celsius. If that's the case tho that's like 116 Fahrenheit. I'm not a fan of dry heat anyway. Last thing I want/need is to be turning into some kinda teriyaki people jercky. Stay cool wherever you're at tho, brother. It's too hot. 🤙🏾
YES!!!! Thank y'all for another educational video. I'm telling you- y'all two are therapy for all the idiots I have to deal with on a daily basis. Thank you from a Gold Star Father
@@mikemissildine370 lol. Funny you should mention that , I actually dropped a tree at deer camp last year end of season using a 12 Guage Everyone wanted the first 10 foot of the tree to remain because we use it to hang gear and guns on so I took it down with my mossberg 835 and a bunch of reload slugs and buckshot. Btw, i meant the TH-cam chan Therapy Range. 😅
Thank you Jeff and Greg! A failure is an option! I think those slugs would be great for cold weather. I'm Sorry not to remember the source but one book author mentioned powder burns with higher pressures and velocities during the hot summers.
I really enjoy your videos. Being a shotgun fan it's nice to see how different slugs fly and the energy that they deliver or if you could hit a barn standing inside of it. Keep up the work I learn a lot
Talk about a knuckleball!!!! See if I know officer Greg is having trouble hitting stuff I know it's not right from factory. Great video an great shooting from Officer Greg. 4 all you went through I've got 2 give you 10/10 Jeff. Looks like slugs was tail heavy.
Those slugs were all over the place. It`s a winter slug, hates the heat. Love the content no matter what it is. Those just loved to tumble except that one you chilled. I think the sabot got soft in the heat and gave you the wonky exit from the barrel that sent them end over end. Thanks Jeff and OG for sharing.
Never saw those before. I generally like Brenneke stuff. Loved the experiment with the cold water to get it to stabilize, awesome. Love OG's Beretta 1301.
We've tested a few other Brenneke slugs and they never thrilled me. The HS camera exposed some flaws with their other wad designs like on the Special Forces slug. I have 4 of these left so I am going to reload them with better components and powder and show that they will work in even hotter conditions.
@@taofledermaus I just did a video on these slugs and O.G. commented that you guys had tested them. I replied that I hadn't seen it yet here is a comment I left a year ago 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I forgot I ever even watched it! Thanks again for all you guys do!
The temperature variance is fascinating! I suppose if these are from Europe they possibly aren't designed for American temperatures. Are the rounds relatively recently manufactured? If not, the plastic or the powder may have degraded over time, dependent on storage conditions.
@@taofledermaus You know how it goes man. Powder chemistry can be fucky with temps, and if these are from Germany they also spent time at sea, it's possible the powder chemistry was altered by the long exposure to high humidity salt air in addition to the heat. There's definitely something going on here that most likely has to do with a combination of how the ammo was manufactured, and how it was stored
@@TheOriginalFaxon I don't think so. The fact that just cooling one down proved to work shows this is most likely a temperature issue as Jeff discussed. Ammo does indeed degrade over long periods of time depending on storage conditions but ammo is also well sealed against the elements so it takes years to go bad, usually.
@@Stigstigster Temperature issue goes to storage though, that's fully included in my point. Some plastics also CAN degrade in such conditions when sealed, it all depends on the rated temperature range for a given polymer mixture, and how malleable or firm it will be at a given temp. Storing in low temp conditions like inside a cooler, as they've done in the past, might have helped with this, had they been aware of the issue ahead of time. Forgive me for the confusion, I was being hyper-technical in my use of the term to encompass any condition in which the ammo lived prior to being fired, and temperature is a sub-category of that in my mind
Meanwhile, EU is a large place. In France, Italy or Spain, we have some very high temperatures too, and in France for example, we have lots of hunters. It's not like if these shells were designed only for hunting in Norway. I think this is either a big design flaw, either a defective batch. Maybe ?
The heat of summer is when I do my load testing with my reloads for pressure signs and accuracy. What will function great with no pressure problems in cold weather, may, (especially if ball powder) pop primers in summer heat. You would think a company like this one would've tested in heat as well as cold or cooler. I have tested my 308 rounds from freezer temp to leaving in the sun and their is a difference in velocity. Again, ball powder is a given in my experience to be temperature sensitive. I have loaded shotgun, but it's been a few years. Extruded powders are more forgiving in my experience with temp sensitivity. I'm sure you know this Tao, just trying to help those who have less or no experience with powders or reloading. In the end I feel like the wad is the problem. Sorry so long. Nice video as usual! Keep'em coming!
When we did a gun shoot (naval guns, of any caliber above .50, normally 3", 5" or greater) we had to average the last three days mag temps to get an idea of the IV.
Every time I watch one of your videos, I learn something new about shotgun loads. I've only shot slugs for one year deer hunting (didn't own a rifle). Everything else has been birdshot. And theres been times my shot off, and I have to ask myself now..."How Hot was it that day?" Keep these Awesome instructional and entertaining videos coming
Definitely a cool slug design, gives me some interesting ideas for sure. Thanks for sharing guys, great shooting as always, despite the goofy trajectories.
You know it's bad when 92 in the shade feels like a nice day compared to the normal! It's unfortunate that this one didn't go very well, but not everything you test is going to work perfectly every time. Keep up the good work, guys!
i have loved this channel forever its been awesome to watch you guys grow and still be the comedic, nice , and very attentive to your audience , My favorite content creators!
I remember seeing these everywhere years ago. Always thought they looked semi gimmicky, but I did like the packaging/sabot style, just figured they wouldn't work for some reason.....old fashioned.... still see em in the back woods stores time to time for way to much a small box. Some day I'll buy a box to blast a couple and put a couple into my shell/casing/bullet display.....
Mission accomplished. You tested different barrel types with several rounds and got conclusive results. You will save folks money and time trying these out. We might have mistakenly thought they function properly if not seeing keyholes
Okay I have an idea for you to try out. I heard it from a older gentleman years ago. You make a paste with carnauba wax and powder copper. They are supposed to hold up well because it has a high melting point. Also they are supposed to break up well passing through interior walls. No idea if it works.
I admire your persistence in testing these and your perspicacity in finally getting one to work. It must be fun to be able to buy and shoot some of these exotic rounds, but I'm amazed that they can actually get to market. Believe it or not, It's not that difficult to get a shotgun licence in England but getting anything other than bird shot is pretty unheard of. I tried your wax birdshot slugs idea against a few different targets and was very impressed. With those and birdshot I'm pretty sure I could feed and defend myself anywhere I have not had enough sense to be absent from. Looking forward to seeing what comes out of the linear accelerator next time.
Considering they were designed in Germany, using what is likely European powder, I'm not surprised at all that they would have issues in the heat of southern California.
Something about clear ballistics than makes it look very cool, they look like they made out of water and ice :) I'm very impressed with the results, regardless of how the ammo performed. Bad result is still a result, it's often more valuable than a perfect result
My department always kept the shotguns loaded in the units. We are in the low desert where it gets in excess of 115 on a regular basis, which means something in excess of 140 inside the vehicles. We had some real problems with Winchester 00 buck one year. I think the humidity and heat got to the components and caused weird velocity drops and wild patterns. Winchester replaced all of the rounds we had left.
I've got some Brenneke rifles slugs from the late 90s??? They also have the squarish flake powder but it looks more grey (or gray if you prefer) from the ouside. I've never taken one apart. I've noticed that over the years of being handled some of the flakes make their way up along the wad. I wonder what impact that has on the consistency of the velocity.
Thanks for the great vid, Jeff and OG. As other commenters have said about dismantling the slugs and making and using your own powder wads and sabots, I think would be a great follow up video, would that be something you guys would be interested in doing?
As clearly noted, the sabot wadding is failing. I find it hard to believe though for it to be temp related judging by the first shot with a cold barrel. I personally think you got lucky with the one shell that actually shot true. I am almost wondering if either A) the wadding is poor quality, or B) the round itself has too much powder for the type of material/wadding that is being used. It would have been nice to see what the chrono would have shown for exit velocity of the round becaused those wad pieces looked like they were moving faster than the round itself on exit which would leave me to believe the sabot is failing either as the shot is being fired or due to over-velocity within the barrel.
I keep a Dometic in my truck for range & hunting outings to keep my shells at 55F. Conversely, hand warmers for our Mule Deer season since it is a scorcher if it gets above 35F for that time period. Using Strelok & a Kestril make 500+yd shots common, if powder/round temp fluctuations are minimized.
I am a black powder enthusiasts and have a large assortment of muzzleloading rifles, shotguns and cap and ball revolvers. It would be absolutely insane if you would do what you do with a muzzleloading shotgun and or a rifle. Would make for some explosive footage.
For some reason I was no longer subscribed to this channel. Weird, I've been subscribed for year's on different devices and never had it happen before. Keep up the awesome content guy's!
Even though the rounds didn't preform well I enjoyed the video. What if you took some of them apart and only reused the bullet. We know your stuff works.
Brennrke used to make a round called MP (Multi Purpose). It was a rifled slug that was designed to be shot from a fully rifled barrel or smooth bore. I could shoot a tennis ball every time at 100 yards. It wasn't a fast slug but it was reliable. It dropped off fast past 100 yards. They quit making them and I have had no luck with any of their other products.
Good design and a cool concept, just poor execution on the manufacturers part. I think you're spot on. A better quality sabot and a better powder choice and they could of had a much better result and product.
How old were those slugs? Plastic can degrade and get brittle with age, and powder can become more sensitive. If they were many years old, either one (or both) of those factors could be the problem.
@@taofledermaus Seeing the edges of the boxes,i would guess over 3-5 years.They were probably a long time in storage.And we get easily over 100 ° F in summer in germany for 1-2 months.Maybe you find some interest in this: www.deva-institut.de/files/userfiles/09HS001ABFlintenlaufgeschosse.pdf P.S: They didnt had the tumbling problem. Page 86 is various angles on stone plates f.e.
Maybe replacing the powder and changing the sabot will help, strange to see them leave the rifled barrel already starting to tumble. Thinking the sabots may have been made with a material the has broken down over time, boxes did seem to be recent production, but what do I know, I'm a novice and y'all are the experts. Till the next time, have a great one and try to stay cool out there.
Congratulations I think you have finally diagnosed what my military unit encountered in Africa. Rounds that did fine at our arctic weather training facility, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in Africa. We honestly thought our firearms were damaged in transit, until we had the same issue in multiple firearms and even multiple platforms. If so these are the ONLY 2 times I ever encountered this in, the I don't want to even think about how many, hundreds of thousands of rounds I have fired over my lifetime.
It makes sense on why they tumble immediately. That aluminum point is inset on that sleeve. It seems like that design creates alot of drag as it flies creating a tumble.
Not only did Brenneke try "novelty" rounds but most ammo maker have tried it also and it seems that the KISS philosophy works when it comes to slug ammo. The old tried and true Foster slug is hard to beat for functionality and cost. TY and OG for all your efforts
Well it certainly is a very interesting looking around it kind of surprised me about the moving piston and of course the results were very good but thanks for sharing keep up the great work
It looked like the wad did better thru smooth bore, maybe a cork or paper wad would do better in rifling.Looks frustrating as hell, but I'm always glad to see you in my feed. The ammonwas spotty, but you guys are always competent and you try your best to make it fun. Love you guys.
not saying the quality or effort behind your content isn't relevant, but failures and frustration are one side of experiments. even when that happens, the whole experience and content is still both interesting and entertaining to me, and it still has the TFM gang and that's what I'm here for. cheers Jeff and OG. keep em coming 🥂❤️
I used to know Louie Awerbuck (R.I.P.) very well. He always endorsed Brenneke slugs because the slugs were screwed onto the wad. You never had to worry about the wad flying off in a hostage situation and hitting the good guy. A slug is like a .50 cal bullet. Thnx.
You really inserted EXTRA EXTREME SCIENCE into this video. Cooling off the shells was a great deduction. Note to the donator: You can't rush science. Thank you for your service because GUNS & FREEDOM go hand in hand
I have preferred Brenneke Gold , 3 " slugs, a more conventional lead slug, for years for hunting in shotgun only areas of New Hampshire. I use a 30+ year old Remington 870 express with a Mossberg made fully rifled barrel. They seem to work well at least in my combo. I haven't seen them on the shelves in years though and my stash is dwindling. Thanks for the interesting videos.
I'm leaning towards it being a powder issue. If those were designed for the European market, they don't (usually) have to deal with SoCal in summer temperatures. Either that, or if they'd been sitting on a shelf for a long time before they were sent to OG, maybe the plastic of the wadding has gone brittle. I'd hate to blame it _ALL_ on OG's astigmatism.
I’m thinking similar to Jeff and a few other comments. Just use the slug and scrap the rest. Load them like any other experimental slug. I was expecting better results myself. While they didn’t perform as advertised, would still be effective on a bipedal meatbag coming through the door uninvited.
A Super cool video. Awesome impact and (tumbling) flights slow motion clips... I'd never think ambient temperature would be such an issue. Lovely slug design though! It's still burning hot in here too... October is getting closer though... :)
So the heat was making the plastic around the round fail? I understand it’s hot out but it’s making that much of a difference in temperature between the powders heat and the outside temp to break the plastic? I would have went with the plastic was old or just got a bad box. Could that also be the case? Also I was excited to see a new episode . Love watching you his after a long night of driving!
Yeah, I'd agree that the powder being too heat sensitive is the most likely thing. A lot of places in the world don't or at least didn't used to get as hot as in parts of the US, so they're designed to a different specification, chocolate's a good example where most parts of Europe don't have the same additive as NA to keep it from melting around 30c.
![ILLSLICK - WINTER IS COMING [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dwTMeM1zIhQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I think it would be interesting to harvest the slugs out of these particular shells and then do your own load and packing to see if you can produce a more stable overall cartridge. Just a thought.
EXactly!
It's a weirdly gimmicky design, so yeah, I'd really like to see it work as intended to see if it does anything interesting.
Why they made it push the tip forward instead of just making it the shape it ends up as to begin with is beyond me.
I was about to submit the same idea lol. That would be a proof that the shells have a design flaw.
I sure hope they actually do that
the powder may be the main issue here
as for the weird multi piece design, maybe they where trying to reduce felt recoil or something?
then again, it's only by maybe a fraction of a split second, so perhaps it has something to do with manufacturing and/or the expansion gimmick
That is a really good thought.
Tough to see. We know you all put so much into your vids. Appreciate everything you all do for great content. Thanks.
thank you!
@@taofledermaus, can you guys send word to that Machinist guy that makes prototype ammo that you guys occasionally test out, that the AK Guy Brandon Herrera is looking for machinist help with getting some of the parts made on the AK-50. I always think it's great when the YT Gun Community helps one another out.
@@OleDirtyMacSanchez We all don't live together in a big TH-cam house or anything.
@@taofledermaus, I thought the Machinist guy lived in Texas, which is why I was asking. Also, I thought he'd be more likely to respond if it was you who was asking. Any which way Brandon is looking for machinist help in getting the AK-50 parts done, could you ask any of the Taofleder fans that are machinists to contact Brandon Herrera?
Your channel has single handily gotten me interested in shotgun slugs. I use a 450 bushmaster for deer hunting because I want a quick, ethical kill where the deer doesn't suffer more than necessary & where I don't have to track it very far. I've seen many slugs on your channel that would be great for deer hunting. No sense in torturing the animal. It's about feeding my family, not delight of the kill. Keep up the great content. 👍
Amen to all of that.
thank you Adam
It's not about feeding your family. There is ZERO need to hunt for food. Modern agriculture provides everything you need. Hunting is a choice. Thus, you are looking at the enjoyment of the kill. Don't lie to yourself, it is unseemly.
There is literally nothing wrong with hunting for food anyway.
@@ImpendingJoker People like you will be the first to die when you can't go buy food at the store. It's unseemly to insult someone for being self sufficient
It's almost tempting to break those down and replace that powder with something like Clays or another that is far less sensitive to temperature extremes. That would answer the question of whether the sabots were failing due to heat or pressure excursions.
Yeah, I think you are on the right track NMann... Jeff has enough recipes with Longshot or Clays that he could do that and rule out the powder issues ASAP. I would like to see him get the velocities up to around 1,750-1,900FPS too.
Doesn't seem like the sabot is the problem looks like it's burning way to slow when it's hot and melting the sabot the last round was moving far faster 🤣
That is what I was thinking. They ought to load some of those up with Unique or something.
This was exactly what I thought when watching. I would love to see Jeff change out the powder to see if he could dial them in!
Same thoughts here❤️
When you get some more of them in, save them for October-November testing! Then you can see if they are heat sensitive or just plain junk rounds.
I have just a few of them left. I'm not sure if Brenneke will be happy with our test and will want to send more to us at this point.
@@taofledermaus Brenneke better send you some alternative to these shells because they need to compensate for this embarrassing shell performance. Yikes.
Glad you said they looked like the engines from the SR-71, my first thought when I saw the thumbnail was that they looked like some sort of high performance jet engine.
Shame about their performance though, nothing like a Blackbird.
Who knows, maybe Brenneke will see this, make some tweaks and let us test them again to redeem their reputation
I'd be curious to see how they tested and justify their 100+ yds claim. If they didn't test them, why send them to you knowing they may fail? If they did, what was different that they didn't get the same results you did?
I bought the Brenneke sabot rounds when they first came out. They had decent accuracy but seemed to be hot loaded. I put a hole clear through a Datsun sedans engine block. You could squat on one side and see daylight through the hole. That was from a mossberg 500 with 18 inch barrel from around 10 feet. But that was literally from the first rounds of brenneke to hit the market. I was single and had spare money. They were expensive. Oh yeah, it was IC cylinder barrel. Smooth bore.
Poor Datsun, hopefully it didn't suffer.
you managed to squeeze those slugs though an IC choke? I've got a pile of those super sabots but have never fired them because I'm too lazy to swap out my IC choke for a cyl. The slug is larger than the diameter of an IC choke by a substantial amount. I was worried about damaging my barrel.
@@xm15ar lol. I just administered the coup de grace. It had been abandoned out in the boonies of Southern Oregon on a fire road. It had been shot up a bunch. That was back in the mid 80s. Back then they were left wherever they were without being hauled away. Good for target practice though! 👍
@@NorthernBCFlyGuy it was improved cylinder. Which is a slightly smaller barrel end. No actual choke involved. It just squeezed the load a little on the way out.
@@markmiller897 improved cylinder is the choke it is built into the last 3-4" of the muzzle end of barrel or may be a variable choke device( interchangeable tubes or a polychoke collet type)
choke constriction muzzle diameter
cylinder 0.000 .729"
Imp cylinder 0.010 .719"
modified 0.020 .709"
full 0.035 .694"
choke constriction makes a significant difference in barrel integrity
Still a very interesting test. I really do enjoy Jeff's narration and explanation. He is smarter than most of us.
We usually don't know what is going on at the time of filming, but the HS sure comes in handy to connect the dots.
I live for cutting edge slug technology taofledermaus experiments
Same here cousin.
As a Danish guy, I am so envious of you, being able to shoot at targets with various kinds of ammo/slugs! Love the content and love OG's humor!
I don't know about Danish gun laws, but most European nations allow for sport/target shooting. Is Denmark not like that?
Thanks for putting in the effort and showing us the results! I still love watching your videos, Jeff! Keep it up!
thank you Bradley
Brenneke= shoulder smasher. When they shoot right, they are hard to beat. Thanks for the video Jeff and Greg
Even a video of failed testing is entertaining, and informative! Great video guys!
thank you Adam
I'm still super happy we still haven't hit triple digits out here. It's muggy as Hell every day but 100+is death weather. Thank you boys for trudging through that miserable heat and making this content for us. You know we appreciate it. 🤙🏾
@E Van I think they were measuring in Celsius. If that's the case tho that's like 116 Fahrenheit. I'm not a fan of dry heat anyway. Last thing I want/need is to be turning into some kinda teriyaki people jercky.
Stay cool wherever you're at tho, brother. It's too hot. 🤙🏾
@E Van Europe and Canada use Celsius vs Fahrenheit in the States.
thanks!
YES!!!! Thank y'all for another educational video. I'm telling you- y'all two are therapy for all the idiots I have to deal with on a daily basis.
Thank you from a Gold Star Father
You might like Therapy Range.
@@Oldmanwithagoldpan I do have "group"ing therapy some days.
Some days I do a bit of tree trimming- more satisfying than a chainsaw 🙃
thanks Mike
@@mikemissildine370 lol. Funny you should mention that , I actually dropped a tree at deer camp last year end of season using a 12 Guage Everyone wanted the first 10 foot of the tree to remain because we use it to hang gear and guns on so I took it down with my mossberg 835 and a bunch of reload slugs and buckshot. Btw, i meant the TH-cam chan Therapy Range. 😅
Cool and interesting video regardless of how the slugs worked. Thanks for braving the weather to get us these vids. Appreciate ya!
thanks
Thank you Jeff and Greg!
A failure is an option!
I think those slugs would be great for cold weather.
I'm Sorry not to remember the source but one book author mentioned powder burns with higher pressures and velocities during the hot summers.
Your videos are very well done. Thanks for the professionalism! Enjoyed this one immensely.
thank you Allen
I really enjoy your videos. Being a shotgun fan it's nice to see how different slugs fly and the energy that they deliver or if you could hit a barn standing inside of it. Keep up the work I learn a lot
thanks
Yes! My boys are back! Love from FL. Rip my homie Danny and Respect to Jeff,OG and Brianna!
Talk about a knuckleball!!!! See if I know officer Greg is having trouble hitting stuff I know it's not right from factory. Great video an great shooting from Officer Greg. 4 all you went through I've got 2 give you 10/10 Jeff. Looks like slugs was tail heavy.
Those slugs were all over the place. It`s a winter slug, hates the heat. Love the content no matter what it is. Those just loved to tumble except that one you chilled. I think the sabot got soft in the heat and gave you the wonky exit from the barrel that sent them end over end. Thanks Jeff and OG for sharing.
MADE IN CHINA! PARTS FROM ITALY, CHINA, NORTH KOREA!sorry, North Korea doesn't send anything anywhere. ASSEMBLED IN MEXICO!!!
Oh hell yeah! Love this channel and especially the test ammunition videos!
@E Van a classic!!!
"We learn more from failure than success." Thank you for publishing your frustrations.
these were relatively fun to play around with, although they didn’t work very practically. your video was very good!
Never saw those before. I generally like Brenneke stuff. Loved the experiment with the cold water to get it to stabilize, awesome. Love OG's Beretta 1301.
We've tested a few other Brenneke slugs and they never thrilled me. The HS camera exposed some flaws with their other wad designs like on the Special Forces slug. I have 4 of these left so I am going to reload them with better components and powder and show that they will work in even hotter conditions.
@@taofledermaus I just did a video on these slugs and O.G. commented that you guys had tested them. I replied that I hadn't seen it yet here is a comment I left a year ago 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I forgot I ever even watched it! Thanks again for all you guys do!
@@buffalosoutdoors Thanks Buffalo!!
The temperature variance is fascinating! I suppose if these are from Europe they possibly aren't designed for American temperatures. Are the rounds relatively recently manufactured? If not, the plastic or the powder may have degraded over time, dependent on storage conditions.
As far as I know they came directly from Brenneke's US distributor. They probably were make pretty recently
@@taofledermaus You know how it goes man. Powder chemistry can be fucky with temps, and if these are from Germany they also spent time at sea, it's possible the powder chemistry was altered by the long exposure to high humidity salt air in addition to the heat. There's definitely something going on here that most likely has to do with a combination of how the ammo was manufactured, and how it was stored
@@TheOriginalFaxon I don't think so. The fact that just cooling one down proved to work shows this is most likely a temperature issue as Jeff discussed. Ammo does indeed degrade over long periods of time depending on storage conditions but ammo is also well sealed against the elements so it takes years to go bad, usually.
@@Stigstigster Temperature issue goes to storage though, that's fully included in my point. Some plastics also CAN degrade in such conditions when sealed, it all depends on the rated temperature range for a given polymer mixture, and how malleable or firm it will be at a given temp. Storing in low temp conditions like inside a cooler, as they've done in the past, might have helped with this, had they been aware of the issue ahead of time. Forgive me for the confusion, I was being hyper-technical in my use of the term to encompass any condition in which the ammo lived prior to being fired, and temperature is a sub-category of that in my mind
Meanwhile, EU is a large place. In France, Italy or Spain, we have some very high temperatures too, and in France for example, we have lots of hunters. It's not like if these shells were designed only for hunting in Norway. I think this is either a big design flaw, either a defective batch. Maybe ?
Definitely the angle of the dangle.
There is no failures in science though, it’s all data.
Cheers from Australia.
The heat of summer is when I do my load testing with my reloads for pressure signs and accuracy. What will function great with no pressure problems in cold weather, may, (especially if ball powder) pop primers in summer heat. You would think a company like this one would've tested in heat as well as cold or cooler. I have tested my 308 rounds from freezer temp to leaving in the sun and their is a difference in velocity. Again, ball powder is a given in my experience to be temperature sensitive. I have loaded shotgun, but it's been a few years. Extruded powders are more forgiving in my experience with temp sensitivity. I'm sure you know this Tao, just trying to help those who have less or no experience with powders or reloading. In the end I feel like the wad is the problem.
Sorry so long.
Nice video as usual!
Keep'em coming!
When we did a gun shoot (naval guns, of any caliber above .50, normally 3", 5" or greater) we had to average the last three days mag temps to get an idea of the IV.
Yup, that needs work. If anyone can figure it out Jeff can. BTW, Justin's triple gainer was awesome!
Every time I watch one of your videos, I learn something new about shotgun loads.
I've only shot slugs for one year deer hunting (didn't own a rifle).
Everything else has been birdshot. And theres been times my shot off, and I have to ask myself now..."How Hot was it that day?"
Keep these Awesome instructional and entertaining videos coming
thanks Eric
Definitely a cool slug design, gives me some interesting ideas for sure. Thanks for sharing guys, great shooting as always, despite the goofy trajectories.
DEFINITELY A ROUND THATS GOT A BEST BEFORE DATE OR TEMPERATURE USE .
I have some ideas for improving these so stay tuned!
I'm impressed by Ken's perfect form as he raised his arms and dove off the water jug.
I would lay odds on powder choice. They went with a powder that performs well in fall/winter temperatures since that is when most hunting seasons are.
You know it's bad when 92 in the shade feels like a nice day compared to the normal! It's unfortunate that this one didn't go very well, but not everything you test is going to work perfectly every time. Keep up the good work, guys!
My experience with plastics is that they degenerate overtime. I imagine the sabo just wasn't holding up through the pressures.
I was also thinking the plastic may have degraded over time. Though, time and heat could mess up the powder too.
i have loved this channel forever its been awesome to watch you guys grow and still be the comedic, nice , and very attentive to your audience , My favorite content creators!
Thank you Jeff
@@taofledermaus no problem jeff, us jeffs gotta stick together, Haha.
I remember seeing these everywhere years ago. Always thought they looked semi gimmicky, but I did like the packaging/sabot style, just figured they wouldn't work for some reason.....old fashioned.... still see em in the back woods stores time to time for way to much a small box. Some day I'll buy a box to blast a couple and put a couple into my shell/casing/bullet display.....
I enjoy the "failures" on this channel just as much as anything else. Usually results in learning something new.
Ha!! My first impression was that it sure looks like something homemade.
Thanks for going out in the heat for our entertainment. That forecast looks like Phoenix temps! Stay cool, stay hydrated, stay safe
Cool/cold weather slugs.
Maybe try adding a fibre or cork wad between the powder and the original wad. Also, maybe using another type of powder.
I have a FEW left, so I am going to chop off the gas seal, maybe use an x12x high pressure seal, a cork wad and Longshot
Mission accomplished. You tested different barrel types with several rounds and got conclusive results. You will save folks money and time trying these out. We might have mistakenly thought they function properly if not seeing keyholes
Yes, Some of the holes were perfect circles - which at first would make us think they were flying straight.
Okay I have an idea for you to try out. I heard it from a older gentleman years ago. You make a paste with carnauba wax and powder copper. They are supposed to hold up well because it has a high melting point. Also they are supposed to break up well passing through interior walls. No idea if it works.
I admire your persistence in testing these and your perspicacity in finally getting one to work.
It must be fun to be able to buy and shoot some of these exotic rounds, but I'm amazed that they can actually get to market.
Believe it or not, It's not that difficult to get a shotgun licence in England but getting anything other than bird shot is pretty unheard of.
I tried your wax birdshot slugs idea against a few different targets and was very impressed.
With those and birdshot I'm pretty sure I could feed and defend myself anywhere I have not had enough sense to be absent from.
Looking forward to seeing what comes out of the linear accelerator next time.
Considering they were designed in Germany, using what is likely European powder, I'm not surprised at all that they would have issues in the heat of southern California.
Glad you tried a "smooth bore" smooth bore makes everything better. Lol. Good analysis. Thx...
I think jeff can reload and make them work I've seen his magic before .
Cooling of the shells in ice firmed that last shotcup nicely. Great thinking
not sure if you did already, but I sent a contact form to Brenneke with a link to your video. hopefully they can get it sorted out.
Tell em to send Jeff a couple dozen of the projectiles and he'll sort it out for them.
Something about clear ballistics than makes it look very cool, they look like they made out of water and ice :) I'm very impressed with the results, regardless of how the ammo performed. Bad result is still a result, it's often more valuable than a perfect result
You’ve got to wonder about the conditions they were stored under and if the wad and components had degraded over time.
My department always kept the shotguns loaded in the units. We are in the low desert where it gets in excess of 115 on a regular basis, which means something in excess of 140 inside the vehicles. We had some real problems with Winchester 00 buck one year. I think the humidity and heat got to the components and caused weird velocity drops and wild patterns. Winchester replaced all of the rounds we had left.
Thank you Jeff and Greg for being out in this heat and making a video..... Cripes its hot!
I'm tired of it! thanks!
I've got some Brenneke rifles slugs from the late 90s??? They also have the squarish flake powder but it looks more grey (or gray if you prefer) from the ouside. I've never taken one apart. I've noticed that over the years of being handled some of the flakes make their way up along the wad. I wonder what impact that has on the consistency of the velocity.
Isualy Not much so long as it's not a whole lot of powder. Still not a desirable thing to have tho.
Thanks for the great vid, Jeff and OG. As other commenters have said about dismantling the slugs and making and using your own powder wads and sabots, I think would be a great follow up video, would that be something you guys would be interested in doing?
As clearly noted, the sabot wadding is failing. I find it hard to believe though for it to be temp related judging by the first shot with a cold barrel. I personally think you got lucky with the one shell that actually shot true. I am almost wondering if either A) the wadding is poor quality, or B) the round itself has too much powder for the type of material/wadding that is being used. It would have been nice to see what the chrono would have shown for exit velocity of the round becaused those wad pieces looked like they were moving faster than the round itself on exit which would leave me to believe the sabot is failing either as the shot is being fired or due to over-velocity within the barrel.
I keep a Dometic in my truck for range & hunting outings to keep my shells at 55F. Conversely, hand warmers for our Mule Deer season since it is a scorcher if it gets above 35F for that time period. Using Strelok & a Kestril make 500+yd shots common, if powder/round temp fluctuations are minimized.
I am a black powder enthusiasts and have a large assortment of muzzleloading rifles, shotguns and cap and ball revolvers. It would be absolutely insane if you would do what you do with a muzzleloading shotgun and or a rifle. Would make for some explosive footage.
gotta give clear ballistics props for sending them to him.
Its' storming like Hell outside, so I needed something good to watch...Obviously not the same Germans that designed the VW Beetle.
Here too. London Ontario Canada
For some reason I was no longer subscribed to this channel. Weird, I've been subscribed for year's on different devices and never had it happen before.
Keep up the awesome content guy's!
Even though the rounds didn't preform well I enjoyed the video. What if you took some of them apart and only reused the bullet. We know your stuff works.
I may try that, I have a few of them left.
Brennrke used to make a round called MP (Multi Purpose). It was a rifled slug that was designed to be shot from a fully rifled barrel or smooth bore. I could shoot a tennis ball every time at 100 yards. It wasn't a fast slug but it was reliable. It dropped off fast past 100 yards. They quit making them and I have had no luck with any of their other products.
Good design and a cool concept, just poor execution on the manufacturers part. I think you're spot on. A better quality sabot and a better powder choice and they could of had a much better result and product.
Those SUPER SABOT's look like novelty shots more than anything.
How old were those slugs?
Plastic can degrade and get brittle with age, and powder can become more sensitive. If they were many years old, either one (or both) of those factors could be the problem.
I really don't know. Lot code is 40251B
@@taofledermaus Seeing the edges of the boxes,i would guess over 3-5 years.They were probably a long time in storage.And we get easily over 100 ° F in summer in germany for 1-2 months.Maybe you find some interest in this: www.deva-institut.de/files/userfiles/09HS001ABFlintenlaufgeschosse.pdf P.S: They didnt had the tumbling problem. Page 86 is various angles on stone plates f.e.
Maybe replacing the powder and changing the sabot will help, strange to see them leave the rifled barrel already starting to tumble. Thinking the sabots may have been made with a material the has broken down over time, boxes did seem to be recent production, but what do I know, I'm a novice and y'all are the experts. Till the next time, have a great one and try to stay cool out there.
The sabot is very specific to this slug. I might try a different powder charge.
Could age or improper storage have an effect on the plastic wads? Could you try reloading some if someone sent more?
I wondered the same thing. Could have affected the powder, too.
After seeing the one shell that chilled for a lot longer than the rest perform normally, I'm pretty sure it was just heat.
Congratulations I think you have finally diagnosed what my military unit encountered in Africa.
Rounds that did fine at our arctic weather training facility, but couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in Africa. We honestly thought our firearms were damaged in transit, until we had the same issue in multiple firearms and even multiple platforms.
If so these are the ONLY 2 times I ever encountered this in, the I don't want to even think about how many, hundreds of thousands of rounds I have fired over my lifetime.
How old were the shells? Could the interior plastic deteriorated over time? Almost like it was to brittle.
I wondered the same thing. I've got some rifled Brenneke slugs from the late 90s. These seem like a similar vintage.
The wad wasn't brittle at all. I think the failure was the gas seal getting blown out.
@@taofledermaus Oh ok thank you.
Science only guarantees an experiment, not a specific result. I enjoyed the video. Thanks for your hard work!
thank you
It makes sense on why they tumble immediately. That aluminum point is inset on that sleeve. It seems like that design creates alot of drag as it flies creating a tumble.
do you have any left that you could reload with a less sensitive powder?
Just a few
Not only did Brenneke try "novelty" rounds but most ammo maker have tried it also and it seems that the KISS philosophy works when it comes to slug ammo. The old tried and true Foster slug is hard to beat for functionality and cost. TY and OG for all your efforts
OGs art skills all ways impresses me, more than his half ass marksmanship lol 😂😂 small joke... but really tho , damn that dude can draw!!
Well it certainly is a very interesting looking around it kind of surprised me about the moving piston and of course the results were very good but thanks for sharing keep up the great work
Maybe it never worked. Bet you could load em proper.
It looked like the wad did better thru smooth bore, maybe a cork or paper wad would do better in rifling.Looks frustrating as hell, but I'm always glad to see you in my feed. The ammonwas spotty, but you guys are always competent and you try your best to make it fun. Love you guys.
Awww OG didn't finger the gummy bear's chest hole.
Thank you guys for filming. Great shooting. I can't wait till the heat wave is over.
Thanks, you and me both
Love the OG artwork! I can’t draw to save my life!
Glad to see you back. I hope it is cooler on the range.
not saying the quality or effort behind your content isn't relevant, but failures and frustration are one side of experiments.
even when that happens, the whole experience and content is still both interesting and entertaining to me, and it still has the TFM gang and that's what I'm here for.
cheers Jeff and OG.
keep em coming 🥂❤️
thank you
Nice vid guys always a pleasure to watch
I used to know Louie Awerbuck (R.I.P.) very well. He always endorsed Brenneke slugs because the slugs were screwed onto the wad. You never had to worry about the wad flying off in a hostage situation and hitting the good guy. A slug is like a .50 cal bullet. Thnx.
Can’t always be a home run. Thanks for the video!
Glad to see an upload!! Thanks for the great content :)
You really inserted EXTRA EXTREME SCIENCE into this video.
Cooling off the shells was a great deduction. Note to the donator: You can't rush science. Thank you for your service because GUNS & FREEDOM go hand in hand
thanks! I have 5 boxes of Accutips that another person donated and he hasn't been on my butt to shoot them.
I have preferred Brenneke Gold , 3 " slugs, a more conventional lead slug, for years for hunting in shotgun only areas of New Hampshire. I use a 30+ year old Remington 870 express with a Mossberg made fully rifled barrel. They seem to work well at least in my combo. I haven't seen them on the shelves in years though and my stash is dwindling.
Thanks for the interesting videos.
Thanks, interesting video. 👍 Perhaps try again when the temperature cool down again
Great experiment!!! Who knew you couldn’t shoot at high temperatures
3:16 the acoustics in that spot are glorious
Thanks for the data!
I'm leaning towards it being a powder issue. If those were designed for the European market, they don't (usually) have to deal with SoCal in summer temperatures. Either that, or if they'd been sitting on a shelf for a long time before they were sent to OG, maybe the plastic of the wadding has gone brittle. I'd hate to blame it _ALL_ on OG's astigmatism.
But they are marketed for the US.
@@taofledermaus True enough, but I think you even said that powder charge looked odd.
I’m thinking similar to Jeff and a few other comments.
Just use the slug and scrap the rest.
Load them like any other experimental slug.
I was expecting better results myself.
While they didn’t perform as advertised, would still be effective on a bipedal meatbag coming through the door uninvited.
A Super cool video. Awesome impact and (tumbling) flights slow motion clips...
I'd never think ambient temperature would be such an issue.
Lovely slug design though!
It's still burning hot in here too... October is getting closer though... :)
Glad you enjoyed it Saar!
So the heat was making the plastic around the round fail? I understand it’s hot out but it’s making that much of a difference in temperature between the powders heat and the outside temp to break the plastic? I would have went with the plastic was old or just got a bad box. Could that also be the case? Also I was excited to see a new episode . Love watching you his after a long night of driving!
The heat can cause the powder to become more energetic but it can also soften the plastic. I think it was a combination of the two.
Cheers for powering through that frustration session. 🍻👍🏻
Even bad shooting results are still useful results.
thanks
Yeah, I'd agree that the powder being too heat sensitive is the most likely thing.
A lot of places in the world don't or at least didn't used to get as hot as in parts of the US,
so they're designed to a different specification, chocolate's a good example where most
parts of Europe don't have the same additive as NA to keep it from melting around 30c.
Jeff and OG y'all rock! Love the channel and content! I'm here for the algorithm! Peace