"Or will you be left with 10 crates of self sealing stem bolts" I love that episode! The great materialistic continuum penetrates everything. (DS9 for those who are wondering)
SOOOOO much going on in this game, but hopefully this gives people a rough idea of what its all about. Some other points, when i mention that the game mixes extroverted and introverted, i really only talk about the challenges for introverts in the social situation. I'll mention here that the economy side can also be pretty overwhelming if you aren't confident with a lot of basic math happening quickly. Holding all those values of what you need, what you produce, and where to build next can be really overpowering for some players. Still, would LOVE to try this with 9 players at some point.
You did a really good job of getting the core of the game distilled in to a quick video. This game is utterly unique and fantastic, though it's definitely not for everyone!
This is so much more concise than my explanation of this game. I usually spend about 20 minutes teaching it to new players. I'm just going to use your video from now on.
This is one of my favourite games. My group loves it. Good review that covered all the salient points. I always feel it has a strong Cosmic Encounter vibe to it (and the plants always win).
Cosmic is a synonym for Sidereal, and Confluence is a synonym for encounter. The designer was very heavily inspired by cosmic encounter according to an interview i read a while back
Just got this to the table last week and man I really wish I had this as a primer for some in my group. it's a very intimidating looking game at set up and i think this would have made them a little less nervous at the start. Good work as always!
I want to say the graphic design is terrible all around, but there are a lot of elements that make it incredibly easy to see what is and will be happening at a glance, once you're in it. That being said it's incredibly dull and mathy looking, and being handed a race sheet with a completely unpronounceable name doesn't help ease the tension.
I love that twilight imperium is regarded as the "perhaps you would like to bounce this ball" option in comparison. Really not that complicated though, you get to go full magpie and scan the table looking for the shiney rocks that you are interested in, then you see if you can match the stuff you have against what that their board could use, then a couple ook ooks later and you are both happy with an even trade. Time winds down and your options dry up, maybe there are some bidding wars or you need to pay a premium in things your opponent doesn't really need to get that one last thing, and all of this being set to the clock ten minutes a round lets the game scale SO WELL.
I dunno, i've played it with folks who found it truly an overwhelming experience, so that comment is based on their feedback. With the pace of the game too, if it doesn't click for you, its crazy, and because of the assymetry and real time parts, you can't just watch what others are doing and learn. I really think its that first game which makes it a challenge in complexity terms. Once you get it, its less moving parts than TI. But people have played a lot of civilization type computer games, so the concepts of TI are easier to grasp.
What a great video idea! Not only do you give folks another 10 games to work from, but you directly incorporated the ideas of your audience. Fantastic stuff. Also, I completely agree with your assessment of the attitude toward "gateway" games. I have friends with whom I play fairly complex games, and other friends who much prefer games like Bohnanza, Ticket to Ride, and various light social/party games. And I have pretty much equal amounts of fun with both groups. "Collection starters" seems like a solid term, as previously stated. It implies a place to begin, but also makes them sound like games that will continue to be enjoyable. /wordvomit
I'm surprised that you covered most of it and the difficult factions in such a short amount of time! I've played this about 5x, but never as the Zeth, until tonight. Extortion is so much fun 😂 I came in last place out of six of us, but I was also teaching the game to 4 brand new players so my mind was consumed by managing the flow of the game, answering multiple questions from 5 people AND planning my own turn. I still had a blast though! We actually had 9 people to play with, but some of them were either overwhelmed by the game itself or didn't have the time to play what could potentially be a 6 hour game haha I think it took us about 4 hours including the teach. Actual playtime was probably 3.5 hours or so.
Great review! This game is on my "I would LOVE to play but don't have the players for it" list. And that makes me a bit sad because I think I'd love it.
So in terms of increasing social/negotiation comlexity, would it be Monopoly, Deluxe Pit, The Sting (1976), Chinatown, Twilight Imperium, Sidereal Confluence?
Not played the sting, but yeah. Although My group plays Twilight Imperium relatively low negotiation compared to other groups i've played with who negotiate everything.
I think it'd be helpful to indicate that your complexity scale. I assume you put a 4 there as in 4/5 not 4/10 or 4/4 because I have seen other reviews with 2 and 3.
Have not played. And I'm not sure any of the first print run even made it to Aotearoa/New Zealand. I've seen no one talking about playing it here. Perhaps in the future though
It looks like a prototype for the cones of dunshire in space! Had to look up sidereal and confluence. Not a good name. The box art is terrible. What is it? A collection of unusual cooking implements, insurance, an offer to buy a time share in Florida? Looking at this makes my brain hurt. So many cards with squares and tiny cubes!!!! I like the trading but the rest of it is just a bunch of no thanks. I see the trading game there and it looks interesting but the art work is virtually non existent. There is a theme but it doesn’t have the polish or design that Twilight Imperium or Chinatown has. Fantastic review. Your videos have spoiled me.
Yeah, the game REALLY needs a new coat of paint. But the gameplay is bonkers good. Game Design wise, it's incredibly tightly built. I'd say far more so than Twilight Imperium, the level of assymetry involved, and the balance the game has with that level of asymmetry is mind blowing. But they did the game no favours with the graphic design choices, which is such a tragedy.
I actually like the graphics, lol. And I'm a mega-nerd, so the name is cool to me as well. To each their own, I guess (though I must admit in the minority here).
The trading is the game. The rest of it is basically housekeeping. It's a VERY active game where you're basically always involved. During the training phase you're actively sorting out your production needs for the next round. Half of the game is literally active bargaining with other players, then another 25% of it is just running your own economy, and the other 25% of it is the colony bidding, research bidding, and sharing technologies. You are actively involved pretty much 80-90% of the game duration. While the artwork isn't great, you don't have any time to consider it when you're playing. The theme is outwardly minimal but it is very strongly reflected in the assymetry and how the different races play. Each has their own backstory too (The game designer has expounded significant details about them and is developing an RPG in the universe) - so it's almost "theme optional". In the game you're just trading cubes to run converters. Heavy artwork and flavor text in the gameplay material here would be highly inappropriate.
"Or will you be left with 10 crates of self sealing stem bolts"
I love that episode! The great materialistic continuum penetrates everything. (DS9 for those who are wondering)
SOOOOO much going on in this game, but hopefully this gives people a rough idea of what its all about.
Some other points, when i mention that the game mixes extroverted and introverted, i really only talk about the challenges for introverts in the social situation. I'll mention here that the economy side can also be pretty overwhelming if you aren't confident with a lot of basic math happening quickly. Holding all those values of what you need, what you produce, and where to build next can be really overpowering for some players.
Still, would LOVE to try this with 9 players at some point.
You did a really good job of getting the core of the game distilled in to a quick video. This game is utterly unique and fantastic, though it's definitely not for everyone!
Yeah, "no game is for everyone" is one of my cliches. But it's so true for SC.
But for those it is right for, its so damned good
This is so much more concise than my explanation of this game. I usually spend about 20 minutes teaching it to new players. I'm just going to use your video from now on.
Perfect. That's the exact outcome i'm after with these vids. Glad to have helped
I wish I had the group for this. I'd love to try this. You're making these videos very frequently now! Great editing as usual.
I'm between contracts at the moment. So while i'm job hunting I have more time than when im working full time.
Kia ora! Love the short videos (and the longer ones too)!
Kia Ora MJZ. Cheers :)
This is one of my favourite games. My group loves it. Good review that covered all the salient points. I always feel it has a strong Cosmic Encounter vibe to it (and the plants always win).
Cosmic is a synonym for Sidereal, and Confluence is a synonym for encounter.
The designer was very heavily inspired by cosmic encounter according to an interview i read a while back
@@3MBG That makes me either very perceptive or very dense :) I'll go with perceptive!
Sidereal is an unusual word. I only knew it due to playing an RPG where one of the classes are "sidereal - the chosen of the stars"
Just got this to the table last week and man I really wish I had this as a primer for some in my group. it's a very intimidating looking game at set up and i think this would have made them a little less nervous at the start. Good work as always!
Cheers.
Yeah, something about the graphic design makes it look really intimidating.
I want to say the graphic design is terrible all around, but there are a lot of elements that make it incredibly easy to see what is and will be happening at a glance, once you're in it.
That being said it's incredibly dull and mathy looking, and being handed a race sheet with a completely unpronounceable name doesn't help ease the tension.
I love that twilight imperium is regarded as the "perhaps you would like to bounce this ball" option in comparison.
Really not that complicated though, you get to go full magpie and scan the table looking for the shiney rocks that you are interested in, then you see if you can match the stuff you have against what that their board could use, then a couple ook ooks later and you are both happy with an even trade. Time winds down and your options dry up, maybe there are some bidding wars or you need to pay a premium in things your opponent doesn't really need to get that one last thing, and all of this being set to the clock ten minutes a round lets the game scale SO WELL.
I dunno, i've played it with folks who found it truly an overwhelming experience, so that comment is based on their feedback. With the pace of the game too, if it doesn't click for you, its crazy, and because of the assymetry and real time parts, you can't just watch what others are doing and learn.
I really think its that first game which makes it a challenge in complexity terms. Once you get it, its less moving parts than TI. But people have played a lot of civilization type computer games, so the concepts of TI are easier to grasp.
What a great video idea! Not only do you give folks another 10 games to work from, but you directly incorporated the ideas of your audience. Fantastic stuff.
Also, I completely agree with your assessment of the attitude toward "gateway" games. I have friends with whom I play fairly complex games, and other friends who much prefer games like Bohnanza, Ticket to Ride, and various light social/party games. And I have pretty much equal amounts of fun with both groups. "Collection starters" seems like a solid term, as previously stated. It implies a place to begin, but also makes them sound like games that will continue to be enjoyable.
/wordvomit
Ha, cheers, I thought it was a nice way to pay people back for getting involved.
However, I think you posted this on the wrong vid :)
I'm surprised that you covered most of it and the difficult factions in such a short amount of time! I've played this about 5x, but never as the Zeth, until tonight. Extortion is so much fun 😂 I came in last place out of six of us, but I was also teaching the game to 4 brand new players so my mind was consumed by managing the flow of the game, answering multiple questions from 5 people AND planning my own turn. I still had a blast though! We actually had 9 people to play with, but some of them were either overwhelmed by the game itself or didn't have the time to play what could potentially be a 6 hour game haha I think it took us about 4 hours including the teach. Actual playtime was probably 3.5 hours or so.
Great review! This game is on my "I would LOVE to play but don't have the players for it" list. And that makes me a bit sad because I think I'd love it.
It's Chinatown, *on steroids*, IN SPACE
Wow, amazing channel, 3 minutes and i know all i need to know about the game
Perfect. Glad to have helped
I just noticed this game name is a synonym for cosmic encounter. That can’t be an accident.
Correct on both counts
The more I hear about this game, the more I want to play it!
I really want to run a 9 player con game
Might have to fly to New Zealand to join in!
Heh. Well, its probably one of the few places you can get 9 people together at the moment
So in terms of increasing social/negotiation comlexity, would it be Monopoly, Deluxe Pit, The Sting (1976), Chinatown, Twilight Imperium, Sidereal Confluence?
Not played the sting, but yeah. Although My group plays Twilight Imperium relatively low negotiation compared to other groups i've played with who negotiate everything.
I think it'd be helpful to indicate that your complexity scale. I assume you put a 4 there as in 4/5 not 4/10 or 4/4 because I have seen other reviews with 2 and 3.
Fair. Its based on the BGG scale, which is 1-5. Will amend for later vids. Good suggestion.
Thanks for this great summary, this game isn't for me and I didn't have to watch a 15 minute video to find that out. ❤
Perfection. I'd rather have people walk away from a game than buy one and feel i tricked them into it.
Hahaha I love the DS9 reference! =D
Can you do wingspan?
Have not played. And I'm not sure any of the first print run even made it to Aotearoa/New Zealand. I've seen no one talking about playing it here. Perhaps in the future though
It's really not pronounced "side real"...?
As far as I am aware, and with my accent, I pronounced it as correct as i could. Sidereal means "of the stars"
It looks like a prototype for the cones of dunshire in space!
Had to look up sidereal and confluence. Not a good name. The box art is terrible. What is it? A collection of unusual cooking implements, insurance, an offer to buy a time share in Florida? Looking at this makes my brain hurt. So many cards with squares and tiny cubes!!!!
I like the trading but the rest of it is just a bunch of no thanks. I see the trading game there and it looks interesting but the art work is virtually non existent. There is a theme but it doesn’t have the polish or design that Twilight Imperium or Chinatown has.
Fantastic review. Your videos have spoiled me.
Yeah, the game REALLY needs a new coat of paint. But the gameplay is bonkers good.
Game Design wise, it's incredibly tightly built. I'd say far more so than Twilight Imperium, the level of assymetry involved, and the balance the game has with that level of asymmetry is mind blowing.
But they did the game no favours with the graphic design choices, which is such a tragedy.
I actually like the graphics, lol. And I'm a mega-nerd, so the name is cool to me as well. To each their own, I guess (though I must admit in the minority here).
The trading is the game. The rest of it is basically housekeeping. It's a VERY active game where you're basically always involved. During the training phase you're actively sorting out your production needs for the next round. Half of the game is literally active bargaining with other players, then another 25% of it is just running your own economy, and the other 25% of it is the colony bidding, research bidding, and sharing technologies. You are actively involved pretty much 80-90% of the game duration.
While the artwork isn't great, you don't have any time to consider it when you're playing. The theme is outwardly minimal but it is very strongly reflected in the assymetry and how the different races play. Each has their own backstory too (The game designer has expounded significant details about them and is developing an RPG in the universe) - so it's almost "theme optional". In the game you're just trading cubes to run converters. Heavy artwork and flavor text in the gameplay material here would be highly inappropriate.