253 km in 30 minutes will be fine for most people who stop for a coffe break after 2 hours of travel. Impressive! I can't wait to get my own Kona in december.
Compared to the Nissan Leaf 2018, which isn't that much cheaper, this is really next level. And the car will not overheat so the charging speed can be reached in every temperature while travelling.
This 175 kW charger is for all intents and purposes an 80 kW charger if it can't go beyond 200 A at 400 V (which is currently the upper bound for nominal battery pack voltages). All of this just proves that charging standards are still a complete mess. Yes, we might have decided on a common plug in CCS, but it's still very confusing what kind of charging a specific car or charger exactly supports. In theory the CCS plug isn't actually limited to 200A. Only under the CCS 1.0 spec the plug only supports up to 80 kW with up to 200 A at 400 V. But since both the car and the charging station in this case are rated at over 80 kW, they both should be compatible with the CCS 2.0 spec. And the CCS 2.0 spec supports up to 350 kW with up to 500 A at 200-1000 V. But the keyword here is UP TO. You now can advertise a souped up 50 kW CCS 1.0 charger as a 125 kW CCS 2.0 charger, as long as it can provide 1000 V instead of the 400 V from before. But no current car will be able to charge on it at that advertised rate, since no car has a 1000 V battery. All of this is a confusing mess because arbitrary combinations of voltage and current will result in a given wattage. In theory there are endless possibilities to build a 175 kW charger. But most of those high kW numbers currently advertised seem to be only achieved by doing the easy thing and upping the voltage capacity... It could very well be that the Kona actually supports 100 kW charging. Charging at 70 kW with a maximum of 200 A means that the battery was charged at 350 V, which is probably also the nominal pack voltage. To hit 100 kW at 350 V you'd need a charger that can deliver 286 A. That's even higher amperage than the Superchargers... so chances are pretty low that a station actually capable of this is out there. What CCS really needs is a rigid system of tiered charging power levels where it's obvious for the user what kind of amperage and voltage they can expect.
The new Ionity Charger Network will get CCS 2.0, so it is then possible to charge für KONA and i-Pace to their max speeds. For 100 kW no cooling charger cable or plug is necessary, whether IONITY have this now. I think for Porsche and other high Voltage systems. Tesla can charge till 125 kW also with out cooling cable and cooling plug. In USA and Europe CCS is the Standard. The car and the Charger exchanges parameters, so the perfect loading will be done, if this parameters are implemented on both sides. I think in some months this will go.
True, and theory is one thing and practicallity another. If we want electric cars to be able to charge 1000 km of range as fast as a petrol car can with a gasoline pump, we need over 1 MW chargers. My old Volvo V70 wagon has an 80 L diesel tank and it takes me about five minutes to fill it up and it gives me well over 1000 km range. It's not something we need with electric cars, but we should nonetheless strive to be better.
Hoss, recharging speed (and long range) is only an issue in the middle of a long journey. The rest of the time it is no problem because you can plug in to a medium power charger wherever you park up in your daily life (home, work, meetings, shopping, gym, cinema etc) and come back an hour or a few later, with sufficient range added to continue daily life patterns. In rest stops on long journeys you will anyway want at least a 10-15 minute human break after 2 or 3 hours of driving. So you need at most to add another 3 hours in 10 minutes of charging. Most people will be happy to add 2.5 hours in 15 minutes of charging, because you will want a toilet / coffee / sandwich break anyway each 2.5 hours on the road. Since for most EVs, 2.5 hours of highway driving means 50-70 kWh - in 15 minutes - that means 280 kW will be more than adequate as the average charge rate (with the peak charging upto maybe 350 kW before some tapering towards 80% full). There really is no need for 1000 kW charging unless you are a truck company, long distance bus company, or similar. In that case you have fixed routes and just a few well placed ultra-fast chargers at hub locations will get the job done. 350 or 400 kW will suffice for passenger vehicles.
That's the whole point tho, so that you DON'T have to charge. At least not that often. I'd be pretty tired of having to fill up every day instead of once a month. So I'd rather charge once a month for five minutes than to charge almost everyday. It's not about necessities, it's about being lazy and have convenience.
About 450 km from 100% to 10%, then a rest for 32 minutes, and you will get 250 km extra (10% to 62%). You have to rest more than the EV on a 700 km long trip. You will never need more range than this Hyundai Kona electric can deliver. So next time order a new generation EV. Then we can get rid of the ICE cars, pollution and CO2 emissions. And to Bjørn: This is an excellent video and should be a standard for all electric vehicles. We get all the information we need about fast charging the EV.
In comparison, a Model 3 LR needs 35 minutes to charge from 10% to 80%, not over 50 minutes. At 80%, it is still charging at 51 kW, well over the Kona's 25 kW. The Model 3 LR can charge at over 100 kW for 19 minutes... all the way from 7% SoC to 55% SoC and it doesn't drop down to 70 kW until over 60% state of charge.
AboutEVs This car still represents serious competition. Few if any other electric vehicles outside of those Tesla sells are capable of 250+ miles of range. The charging speed you see here is probably limited by the charging station’s current rating. Most CCS cords are only rated for 200A, using P= VI or you can see the Kona is limited by the station’s current output. For a 350V battery the max speed this station can provide to this Kona is 350V * 200A = 70,000W = 70kW. In order to provide the full 100kW the cable would need to be able carry 286A of current. As newer CCS 2.0 chargers are capable of 500A, this higher speed may be attainable with a CCS 2.0 station. With the Kona charging at 100kW, it’s not far at all from Tesla’s 120kW super charging speed. I intend to buy a Tesla myself (used Model S or Model Y) but I encourage this competition. The industry as a whole needs to go Electric and this Kona is a damn good start for Hyundai. It’s a pity there aren’t full speed charging stations readily available to support its faster charging.
Interesting to see all these angry Tesla manias boasting how Tesla is better than Kona. Of course it has to be better. 'Cause It's a more expensive car, but man.. Not many cars can beat Hyundai in terms of bang for the buck. That's what Hyundai is best at
As a Tesla hopeful, this car looks great. A bit small for me, but if what I see driving around is any indication will be a popular model assuming people can get past the EV part. I really hope they do - this is the best offering I've seen outside Tesla that's actually available in any vaguely realisable timeframe. I don't hold hopes too much though - apparently Norway has been allocated 2.5k for 2018, while the demand is 20k. That's almost a whole order of magnitude difference. Not to EV manufacturers: people want to buy them, but so far Tesla is the only one that wants to MAKE millions of them.
It translates to 450 km/h charging rate. Model X unrestricted 90 kWh will need 50 minutes to gain +300 km. And that equals to 360 km/h. This is btw the reason why Pawel had to charge more often during the race.
But so far the standard only uses AC on the non-DC pins. So right now the hardware is not there...stupid German car lobby standard🤪 Tesla shows what a "flexible" charging system port looks like doing both with the same cable.
I thought this was an CCS 2 charger?. Hopefully Björn can test with the ccs 2 charger soon. I’m interested in the maximum charge current of the car not the charger. Great video btw 👍🏼
Interesting video. It appears the first taper point is at 18% when the charge rate drops from 71KW to 65KW (and then gradually rises with battery voltage back up to 71KW). That drop seems too large to simply be battery TMS. It appears the 100KW number from Hyundai is the station limit (200A) and not the car limit. Similar to the 150A limit on the Bolt EV/Ampera-e and the 80KW mention in the Bolt EV manual.
The bloody CCS charging system must up its game pretty fast especially if the Kona, the I-Pace and other large battery EVs with CCS fast charging are going to flood the markets soon. Otherwise, Tesla will take it all. But (!): at least Hyundai did an excellent job again :)
That can only be a good thing. Thanks for the info. Any idea how much they will be charging. I know that BP are aiming to charge 49p/kWh = rip off (At 4 miles per kWh makes it 12.25p per mile = same price as petrol). They are probably trying to stop people changing from petrol.
QC in Norway costs about the same, or more than petrol/diesel. But the point of having an EV is NOT to go ta a "gasstation" to fill up. The few trips you make using QC don't make a whole lot against all the trips you make with fuel filled up at home or work at a normal rate.
@TouchManiaCity inonity is no good for this cars. Inonity is designed for 800V EV , only Taycan and Etron Gt has this powertrain. Than Fastned is a better solution, as they offer up to 175Kw chargespeed. Just need to wait untill Kona/ Niro / Leafs ... can charge at 120 to 150kw. I hope within 5 years. And BTW : in Belgium its the same. Only 50kw chargers. So in the meantime ( only 6 months later ) model 3 is avaible and charge rate up to 200kw with SC version 3. For ppl travelling a lot on daily base this is the one 4 sale. Even the Short Range ( 50kw) model 3 ( 40000€ EV) has this , it will be a game changer , if its not allready , talking timewise , first quarter 2019.
Hi Bjron. Kev from England here. What a car, what about fitting a tow bar, surely it's the same chassis as the ice model?That would make this car the best! Would be selling Nissan leaf and env-200 to get this if it can tow.
What I'm thinking, should the consumption tests not be extended with what a charger delivers in kWh? If I'm correctly informed, the Kona uses the A/C (and kWh) to cool down or heat update the batterypack while charging. When you've a passive batterypack then the consumption is different with an active version of a batterypack. Alsof some users says you've to count 9% more and others 17% than shown on the dashboard.
@Banzai83 math is not your strength? 175 kW divided by 43 kW is not 3, it's 4,07 By the way, my message was a joke, that's why this smiley ;-) wth wink of the eye.
Why does hyundai not put a ccs 2.0 charging port in it. so you can have up to 500A or 1KV ? is it possible you can switch the charging port in the future. Ionity is building the 350 KW chargers. Porsche is building their up to 950V chargers.... so this would be the only way to be a game changer on the german market.
This is a great EV, seems like life would be good in this car. Important to compare charge rates in KW not KM of range added as Tesla doesn't make a small car this light. A lighter car will add range faster so always compare KW or KW/H
I heard Fortum will upgrade this charger, with water cooled cable later this year. Suppusedly Kona should get gloser to 100 kW then. I would love if you do a follow up on that.
Like Horst Lüning pointed out in his I-Pace review the bottleneck is the CCS standard. Let’s hope it can be easily updated, otherwise the new installed chargers greater 50 kW are quite pointless :-/
Hi Bjorn did you have a video about the 50 kW charger. I think that the car has thermal throttling at 70 kW. What is the average charging time with 50 kW charger?
It's not all the fault of the 200A restriction. At higher SOC's, the power should go up as the Voltage goes up. So BMS restrictions (in other words Battery protection) would be the better explanation for this behaviour. As we know that the same cells are used as in other cars showing similar behaviour it is not surprising.
Interesting! I manage getting 70 kW on average with my own IONIQ MY18 on the Fortum 175 kW charger in Kristinehamn. Charged from 14 to 94%, I got 24,6 kWh at 21 minutes. Up to 77% the charging speed must have been bigger than 70 kW. Worth a try from your side Bjørn?
Hey! I'm going to buy a Kona soon, but one question: I was wondering how long does it take to charge it from 15% to 85% approximately with a 22kw wallbox charger? thank you
Reading some comments here comparing this to a Model 3. It is apples and oranges. Different type of vehicle. Only thing you can maybe compare is price/features. You get a LOT lot lot more bang for your buck with the Kona. Model 3 has nothing but that center screen which a lot of people don't like. The Kona gives you a center screen, a drivers dash, AND a heads up display, and all the other buttons and dials people are used to on a car.
Thank you for part 1, 2 and this video Bjørn, these have thrown waiting for model 3 into question. Still looking at late 2019 for a right hand drive model 3 in the UK, even though materials/trim will be nicer than the kona its looking to be as practical at a cheaper price and possibly sooner delivery.
Hywel - better get your order in quick, Hyundai are only producing very limited numbers of the Kona (2.5 per month for the foreseeable, whereas the model 3 will hit 25K per month by the end of this year). Reason is that Hyundai are losing money on this, whereas Telsa will be making money on the 3.
max holland hmm thats a bit of an annoyance, yeah I did wonder if this would be at a loss. Thanks for that will have to see my nearest dealer, do you know if they are only selling at select dealers like they did with the Ioniq?
Interesting video. Can I suggest to remove the frame-number from the timer display, if possible? HH:MM:SS is enough, frame is only interesting for editing purpose. Also some graps at the end would be great! Time on X-axis and SOC and speed on a dual Y-axis. Thank you for an exiting race Wednesday! I hope you can get hands on a Niro before it is time for me to sign the contract.
I'm confused. You state a 200 A limit on the plug. The Kona EV's CCS plug? Or the 175 kW charger's plug? The charger should be able to provide close to 350 A, correct?
Bummer. Any > 200 A chargers in your area? Or do we already know 200 A is the Kona's limit? It looks like it's using very similar cells to the Bolt EV/Ampera-E.
The Kona has active liquid cooling - totally competent for keeping things healthy and fast. The Leaf that has NO active cooling at all (not even cold air blowing). Leaf is a terrible battery management design. See articles on Leaf vs. Long Journey. No car can accept 70 kW without some active cooling as it would cook the batteries over a decent charge duration.
Yes, 25 kW of power (where we were at 83%), there is very little heat gain if the cells are a decent chemistry, so the cooling can take a rest... Thank you Bjorn, fantastic data. Pity we didn't get closer to 80 kW that the designers had mentioned, but still excellent to be able to get from 10% to 80% in 50:22, and as you say 57% ( 28:58 before 1st taper starts) or 73% (40:25 before 2nd taper starts) are both plenty of range in this little beast.
I think this should be the Minimum on journeys a BEV can charge and of course it has to be stable. If you are not always driving too long tours, the Koreans are absolutely okay. For me efficience is more important...
I don't understand. We don't know if the battery was "warm" when it started (I assume it would have been to get to the charger) since it started at 11%, shouldn't it have got up to around 150kw while it was somewhere in the 20 to 60% and then tapper off as it got full?
It was warm. Trust me. Kona supports up to 100 kW on paper. But we don't know if that means "100 kW fast charger which has max 200 A ouput" or if it can truly take 100 kW.
so is this going to happen to the Jaguar iPace as well? will these 100 kw cars only charge at that speed if they are the higher voltage ones (like the 800volt porchse ones?)
afaik CCS charging limits the current at about 200 amps and iirc 850 volts. lets say the batteries are about 400 volts (using round numbers to keep it simple). 200X400 = 80000 watts. so about 80kW If you were to dump 850 volts (the max CCS supports) into a 400volt battery you will have fireworks. even if you could up the amps, I'm not sure that would be good for the quality of the battery in the long run though ;)
Its so funny, even with Optimus nerfed(115kw with new battery), no car can beat 94kw yet. But still, Model 3 has some serious competition now. E-Golf, i3, I-Pace, LEAF... will have a very hard time beating that performance. I don't like the front design of the Kona. But its ok for the price. With the IONIQ(bigger battery) Hyundai are the only ones who can challenge Tesla right now.
Jehan Kateli pretty standard for the last 10-20% to take much longer. Harder to cram those electrons in without damaging the battery. Pretty similar to the trickle charge you see on mobiles after 80%. There are tricks round it like put in a 120% battery and ‘lie’ about the capacity.. but not a cheap option.
How is this due to CCS limitation? Surely one can't blame the throttling at 57% to the CCS "limitation". Hyundai only claims approx. 54 minutes to 80% SoC at a 100 kW *charger*. They have never claimed 100 kW actual speed, although I bet a lot of Hyundai dealers have and I guess that's why people keep on dreaming about these charging speeds on Ioniq and Kona (same with Kia Soul).
@@samusaran7317 After the second charge probably, but is a minor use case for the actual Leaf. Anyway is not a significant problem for mass market or Nissan, less alone for them having a liquid cooled platform already available next year.
hehe, 150 kw ? The max. was only 70 kw. Not good ! And before everyone was bashing on the Nissan leaf 2018. The Leaf is doing well without battery cooling is you see this with battery cooling !
70kW is basically the current limit of the charger combined with this voltage battery pack. It's as good as you can do on a budget without making the battery even bigger..
The leaf is not doing well without battery cooling. A full power charge of 10-80% adds around 20 Celsius, and then you're next charges are throttled. See #rapidgate, and Bjorn's other videos.
Hyundai isn't wrong about the charging speed.. they list slightly under an hour (58 mins I think) for charging upto 80% that prettymuch matches what I'm seeing in the video. It supports charging on the newer 150kW chargers.. and allows charging over the 50 kW limit on the older chargers.. they didn't promise miracles that everybody knew weren't gonna happen.
Richard Petek, yes, these aren’t really races. More like a combination of luck and experience, since both are limited to the speed limit + 10 Km/h. Under these rules I could beat a P90D in a short 1000 km race driving a 1990 Geo Metro. But move the race to the autobahn and the Tesla can easily beat a Kona because it can charge twice as fast and maintain a higher speed.
The Kona has a max charge rate of 80kw according to the specs. It’s good to see the real world performance. I don’t find the title misleading. Thanks, Bjorn! 👍🏻
If soon the CCS 2.0 are impemented in the new ultra fast chargers, KONA will get his 100 kW, also i-Pace because this 200A limit then not longer exists. I hope really, that other companies take the offer from Tesla, and make partnerships for the SUCs. Why not Hunday or Jaguar? With the model 3 some will change. Tesla have the CSS standard, only other plugs. We all hope that the M3 will get a combo2 plug in europe, and the europe SUCs also will get the combo2 plug on a part of their chargers. Current Model S and Model x should not be affected and get the chargers exlusive (that have no combo2 plug). Future model S and X can have an advantage from the CCS 2.0 parameters, more as 125 kW. On the other side, in future Tesla can in europe use all new fast charager infrastructures, SUC, Ionity, ultra-e and so on and 1000s of the 50 kW Trippel Chargers with combo2 without the Chademo-Adapter. This would be a win win situation for Tesla and SUC partners.
That is sad to hear. But maybe Hyundai/KIA would be able to optimize their charging curve a little better over time. Instead of sudden BMS drop down at 57% & 73% SoC a more gradual/stepped decline, giving a higher average charging speed between ~ 10-80%. However, even at 70/56kW maximums, it would average 66.7kW up to 73%, combining that with it's high efficiency, it can actually compete with Model 3 in total travel times for 500-800km highway journeys (@120km/h) in my spreadsheet.
@Prom Prometheus how much kW do you get at home with schuko on AC? Ever tried the 11kW socket type 2 on public chargers? I heard in Austria the maximum power delivered with single phase charging is limited to 3.7 kW (230V*16A) because of "Schieflast"prevention, can you confirm that?
steffeo1, not misleading. It’s the title we all were waiting for. Charging on a 100+ kW charger. And the video answers the questions we’ve all been waiting for.
Bjørn Nyland the title on mobile is visible first, and in all fairness you should write charging on 175kw charger. What you are writing is that you are charging on 175 kw, witch you are not. Not that it's actually a big deal :)
52 mins to 80% is a complete joke even if it has a 64 Kwh battery. Charges at 70 Kw, That's only 20 Kw more than my BMW i3 can manage. Yes 20 Kw more but it's not enough to convince me to change. I'd still like if the i3 had 70 Kw. I'll wait for the Model 3 or See what BMW brings out in the next 1-2 years. Kona is also very over priced and quite ugly inside, even the updated Ioniq interior is far better. The Kona is a 20 K Euro car with a 20 K Euro battery ! I could live with a 40 Kwh car if it could charge at a real 150 Kw. There is still no resolution to cold battery charging which can greatly slow down , the BMW i3, Kona, Ioniq heat their batteries but only when plugged into the mains and an i3 can charge as little as 25 Kw at 6 Deg C, half the power of a battery that is 20 Deg C.(battery temp ) I don't know the extent of the problem with the Hyundai's but all batteries suffer in the cold. The AC battery cooling in the i3 is great, can drive hard as you want and charge as much as you want and the max temp you will see is about 35 Deg C and then the AC kicks in and cools to about 30 Deg C and then at 29 Dec there is no more cooling, great system.
253 km in 30 minutes will be fine for most people who stop for a coffe break after 2 hours of travel. Impressive! I can't wait to get my own Kona in december.
Realistically however, this speed only happens with ambient/battery temp over 25°C.
2020 got battery heating
@@Jonsk111 2019 doesn't have that?
@@Jonsk111 does it? Can you force it during a ride?
Compared to the Nissan Leaf 2018, which isn't that much cheaper, this is really next level. And the car will not overheat so the charging speed can be reached in every temperature while travelling.
I hope in a few years it will be that fast in real time! :-)
Thanks for using my song Bjørn 🤩👌🏼👌🏼 herlig kanal!!
BIG THX to Björn, I was hoping for a higher charging performance, regards Tino
This 175 kW charger is for all intents and purposes an 80 kW charger if it can't go beyond 200 A at 400 V (which is currently the upper bound for nominal battery pack voltages).
All of this just proves that charging standards are still a complete mess. Yes, we might have decided on a common plug in CCS, but it's still very confusing what kind of charging a specific car or charger exactly supports.
In theory the CCS plug isn't actually limited to 200A. Only under the CCS 1.0 spec the plug only supports up to 80 kW with up to 200 A at 400 V. But since both the car and the charging station in this case are rated at over 80 kW, they both should be compatible with the CCS 2.0 spec. And the CCS 2.0 spec supports up to 350 kW with up to 500 A at 200-1000 V. But the keyword here is UP TO.
You now can advertise a souped up 50 kW CCS 1.0 charger as a 125 kW CCS 2.0 charger, as long as it can provide 1000 V instead of the 400 V from before. But no current car will be able to charge on it at that advertised rate, since no car has a 1000 V battery. All of this is a confusing mess because arbitrary combinations of voltage and current will result in a given wattage. In theory there are endless possibilities to build a 175 kW charger. But most of those high kW numbers currently advertised seem to be only achieved by doing the easy thing and upping the voltage capacity...
It could very well be that the Kona actually supports 100 kW charging. Charging at 70 kW with a maximum of 200 A means that the battery was charged at 350 V, which is probably also the nominal pack voltage. To hit 100 kW at 350 V you'd need a charger that can deliver 286 A. That's even higher amperage than the Superchargers... so chances are pretty low that a station actually capable of this is out there.
What CCS really needs is a rigid system of tiered charging power levels where it's obvious for the user what kind of amperage and voltage they can expect.
All good points. We will get there in the end, especially as more EVs start to push the current limits (pun intended).
The new Ionity Charger Network will get CCS 2.0, so it is then possible to charge für KONA and i-Pace to their max speeds.
For 100 kW no cooling charger cable or plug is necessary, whether IONITY have this now. I think for Porsche and other high Voltage systems.
Tesla can charge till 125 kW also with out cooling cable and cooling plug.
In USA and Europe CCS is the Standard. The car and the Charger exchanges parameters, so the perfect loading will be done, if this parameters are implemented on both sides.
I think in some months this will go.
True, and theory is one thing and practicallity another. If we want electric cars to be able to charge 1000 km of range as fast as a petrol car can with a gasoline pump, we need over 1 MW chargers.
My old Volvo V70 wagon has an 80 L diesel tank and it takes me about five minutes to fill it up and it gives me well over 1000 km range. It's not something we need with electric cars, but we should nonetheless strive to be better.
Hoss, recharging speed (and long range) is only an issue in the middle of a long journey. The rest of the time it is no problem because you can plug in to a medium power charger wherever you park up in your daily life (home, work, meetings, shopping, gym, cinema etc) and come back an hour or a few later, with sufficient range added to continue daily life patterns. In rest stops on long journeys you will anyway want at least a 10-15 minute human break after 2 or 3 hours of driving. So you need at most to add another 3 hours in 10 minutes of charging. Most people will be happy to add 2.5 hours in 15 minutes of charging, because you will want a toilet / coffee / sandwich break anyway each 2.5 hours on the road. Since for most EVs, 2.5 hours of highway driving means 50-70 kWh - in 15 minutes - that means 280 kW will be more than adequate as the average charge rate (with the peak charging upto maybe 350 kW before some tapering towards 80% full). There really is no need for 1000 kW charging unless you are a truck company, long distance bus company, or similar. In that case you have fixed routes and just a few well placed ultra-fast chargers at hub locations will get the job done. 350 or 400 kW will suffice for passenger vehicles.
That's the whole point tho, so that you DON'T have to charge. At least not that often. I'd be pretty tired of having to fill up every day instead of once a month. So I'd rather charge once a month for five minutes than to charge almost everyday. It's not about necessities, it's about being lazy and have convenience.
I’m glad that it charges MUCH faster than the Bolt. Now if only I didn’t have to wait forever for this car...
Thanks Bjorn. Great work!
About 450 km from 100% to 10%, then a rest for 32 minutes, and you will get 250 km extra (10% to 62%). You have to rest more than the EV on a 700 km long trip. You will never need more range than this Hyundai Kona electric can deliver. So next time order a new generation EV. Then we can get rid of the ICE cars, pollution and CO2 emissions.
And to Bjørn: This is an excellent video and should be a standard for all electric vehicles. We get all the information we need about fast charging the EV.
Very manageable. On a typical long trip, I'd start 100%, run 2h, 32min charge, run 2h, eat and take a longer charge, run 2h, 32min charge, run 2h...
Thanks Bjorn! Objective data is king; I think this vid will be pretty popular.
In comparison, a Model 3 LR needs 35 minutes to charge from 10% to 80%, not over 50 minutes. At 80%, it is still charging at 51 kW, well over the Kona's 25 kW. The Model 3 LR can charge at over 100 kW for 19 minutes... all the way from 7% SoC to 55% SoC and it doesn't drop down to 70 kW until over 60% state of charge.
AboutEVs This car still represents serious competition. Few if any other electric vehicles outside of those Tesla sells are capable of 250+ miles of range.
The charging speed you see here is probably limited by the charging station’s current rating. Most CCS cords are only rated for 200A, using P= VI or you can see the Kona is limited by the station’s current output.
For a 350V battery the max speed this station can provide to this Kona is 350V * 200A = 70,000W = 70kW. In order to provide the full 100kW the cable would need to be able carry 286A of current.
As newer CCS 2.0 chargers are capable of 500A, this higher speed may be attainable with a CCS 2.0 station. With the Kona charging at 100kW, it’s not far at all from Tesla’s 120kW super charging speed.
I intend to buy a Tesla myself (used Model S or Model Y) but I encourage this competition. The industry as a whole needs to go Electric and this Kona is a damn good start for Hyundai. It’s a pity there aren’t full speed charging stations readily available to support its faster charging.
Interesting to see all these angry Tesla manias boasting how Tesla is better than Kona.
Of course it has to be better. 'Cause It's a more expensive car, but man..
Not many cars can beat Hyundai in terms of bang for the buck. That's what Hyundai is best at
As a Tesla hopeful, this car looks great. A bit small for me, but if what I see driving around is any indication will be a popular model assuming people can get past the EV part. I really hope they do - this is the best offering I've seen outside Tesla that's actually available in any vaguely realisable timeframe.
I don't hold hopes too much though - apparently Norway has been allocated 2.5k for 2018, while the demand is 20k. That's almost a whole order of magnitude difference.
Not to EV manufacturers: people want to buy them, but so far Tesla is the only one that wants to MAKE millions of them.
About 300Km "speetspot range" meaning 10-72%. For the price of the car, its a Tesla killer. Very impressive Hyundai.
It translates to 450 km/h charging rate. Model X unrestricted 90 kWh will need 50 minutes to gain +300 km. And that equals to 360 km/h. This is btw the reason why Pawel had to charge more often during the race.
From the videos i saw, i think it is not possible to set the charging limit to 72%? But 70% is also ok limit.
Only 10 % increments.
300 km gain took 40 minutes here, not bad
Karen. Let me guess, you're an engineer?
CCS plug 200A limit is the worst thing ever. Hope this standard will be changed in the future. Otherwise just 800V vehicles will use the full power.
Or combining the DC High and DC Mid pins. I mean, it‘s called Combined Charging System. So they should really use all pins they have.
There is CCS 1.0 and 2.0. CCS 1.0 has the limitation of 200A, CCS 2.0 has a limitation of 500A
But so far the standard only uses AC on the non-DC pins. So right now the hardware is not there...stupid German car lobby standard🤪
Tesla shows what a "flexible" charging system port looks like doing both with the same cable.
I thought this was an CCS 2 charger?. Hopefully Björn can test with the ccs 2 charger soon. I’m interested in the maximum charge current of the car not the charger. Great video btw 👍🏼
Interesting video. It appears the first taper point is at 18% when the charge rate drops from 71KW to 65KW (and then gradually rises with battery voltage back up to 71KW). That drop seems too large to simply be battery TMS. It appears the 100KW number from Hyundai is the station limit (200A) and not the car limit. Similar to the 150A limit on the Bolt EV/Ampera-e and the 80KW mention in the Bolt EV manual.
The Kona size is good for commute only not a practical car like Tesla. They need to put this system into the Tucson.
The bloody CCS charging system must up its game pretty fast especially if the Kona, the I-Pace and other large battery EVs with CCS fast charging are going to flood the markets soon. Otherwise, Tesla will take it all.
But (!): at least Hyundai did an excellent job again :)
It is slightly immaterial here in the UK at the moment because I don't think we have any CCS chargers greater than 50kWh yet.
That can only be a good thing. Thanks for the info. Any idea how much they will be charging. I know that BP are aiming to charge 49p/kWh = rip off (At 4 miles per kWh makes it 12.25p per mile = same price as petrol). They are probably trying to stop people changing from petrol.
QC in Norway costs about the same, or more than petrol/diesel. But the point of having an EV is NOT to go ta a "gasstation" to fill up. The few trips you make using QC don't make a whole lot against all the trips you make with fuel filled up at home or work at a normal rate.
@TouchManiaCity inonity is no good for this cars. Inonity is designed for 800V EV , only Taycan and Etron Gt has this powertrain.
Than Fastned is a better solution, as they offer up to 175Kw chargespeed.
Just need to wait untill Kona/ Niro / Leafs ... can charge at 120 to 150kw. I hope within 5 years.
And BTW : in Belgium its the same. Only 50kw chargers. So in the meantime ( only 6 months later ) model 3 is avaible and charge rate up to 200kw with SC version 3.
For ppl travelling a lot on daily base this is the one 4 sale.
Even the Short Range ( 50kw) model 3 ( 40000€ EV) has this , it will be a game changer , if its not allready , talking timewise , first quarter 2019.
can the car only load a maximum of 70 kw? 😕
My hyundai dealer only takes orders in Belgium end of 2018 ... such nice car difficult to get again...
The Ioniq can maintain 70kW until 80%. Why is the Kona so much worse?
OK, I think that's it. Talk to you guys later! :-)
Lol
so which car can be charged at 175kw currently or in the near future?
Hi Bjron. Kev from England here. What a car, what about fitting a tow bar, surely it's the same chassis as the ice model?That would make this car the best! Would be selling Nissan leaf and env-200 to get this if it can tow.
What I'm thinking, should the consumption tests not be extended with what a charger delivers in kWh? If I'm correctly informed, the Kona uses the A/C (and kWh) to cool down or heat update the batterypack while charging. When you've a passive batterypack then the consumption is different with an active version of a batterypack. Alsof some users says you've to count 9% more and others 17% than shown on the dashboard.
Almost like my Renault Zoe Q90, charging on 43 kW ;-) hehe
Accept you get 3 times the distance during the same time.
@Banzai83
math is not your strength?
175 kW divided by 43 kW is not 3, it's 4,07
By the way, my message was a joke, that's why this smiley ;-) wth wink of the eye.
eDrive I have no problems with math but I don’t know how quick you can charge a Zoe.
I wrote in my first comment, charging power on my Zoe Q engine is 43 kW.
Ther are also other Zoe's with 22 kW. That's the most with only 22 kW
But the Zoe doesn't charge at 43 kW all the time. It's like the Chademo charging.
Wow charge rate dropped off a cliff at 73% Do these defined step downs apply at lower charge rates I wonder?
No esta nada mal aún así falta mucho por avanzar. Pasito a pasito
not familiar with charging standards, but CCS seems to be having some problems, is chademo capable of matching CCS?
What is the name of the song in the begining? (until 30sec)
Why does hyundai not put a ccs 2.0 charging port in it. so you can have up to 500A or 1KV ? is it possible you can switch the charging port in the future. Ionity is building the 350 KW chargers. Porsche is building their up to 950V chargers.... so this would be the only way to be a game changer on the german market.
This is a great EV, seems like life would be good in this car.
Important to compare charge rates in KW not KM of range added as Tesla doesn't make a small car this light.
A lighter car will add range faster so always compare KW or KW/H
I heard Fortum will upgrade this charger, with water cooled cable later this year. Suppusedly Kona should get gloser to 100 kW then. I would love if you do a follow up on that.
Was the SOC target 100% in this case ?
Nice video; did you sync up the door open animations at the beginning with the music? If not, that is a nice coincidence
nope, no sync
Like Horst Lüning pointed out in his I-Pace review the bottleneck is the CCS standard. Let’s hope it can be easily updated, otherwise the new installed chargers greater 50 kW are quite pointless :-/
13kwh per 100km is equivalent to 1 liter of gasoline?
Hi Bjorn did you have a video about the 50 kW charger.
I think that the car has thermal throttling at 70 kW.
What is the average charging time with 50 kW charger?
40-47 kW up to 73 %
Charching current setting menu ? In one of your video's i saw this menu item, but you never opened that menu..... maybe the current can be set higher.
Charging current is for AC only. This is DC.
It's not all the fault of the 200A restriction. At higher SOC's, the power should go up as the Voltage goes up. So BMS restrictions (in other words Battery protection) would be the better explanation for this behaviour. As we know that the same cells are used as in other cars showing similar behaviour it is not surprising.
I hope CCS 3.0 will come soon, with 500+ amps but also V2G capability
Interesting! I manage getting 70 kW on average with my own IONIQ MY18 on the Fortum 175 kW charger in Kristinehamn. Charged from 14 to 94%, I got 24,6 kWh at 21 minutes. Up to 77% the charging speed must have been bigger than 70 kW. Worth a try from your side Bjørn?
Ioniq doesn't use LFP otherwise it would be 20kWh
The chemistry is LiPO.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery
How many kWh did you put in (data from the charging station)?
Hey! I'm going to buy a Kona soon, but one question: I was wondering how long does it take to charge it from 15% to 85% approximately with a 22kw wallbox charger? thank you
Kona can't utilize 400 V 3-phase. So you will get 7.4 kW (6.6 kW after charging loss). It will take about 7 hours.
If the limiting factor was the current at 70kW, then maby the voltage was to low at the charger
Reading some comments here comparing this to a Model 3. It is apples and oranges. Different type of vehicle. Only thing you can maybe compare is price/features. You get a LOT lot lot more bang for your buck with the Kona. Model 3 has nothing but that center screen which a lot of people don't like. The Kona gives you a center screen, a drivers dash, AND a heads up display, and all the other buttons and dials people are used to on a car.
Thank you for part 1, 2 and this video Bjørn, these have thrown waiting for model 3 into question. Still looking at late 2019 for a right hand drive model 3 in the UK, even though materials/trim will be nicer than the kona its looking to be as practical at a cheaper price and possibly sooner delivery.
Hywel - better get your order in quick, Hyundai are only producing very limited numbers of the Kona (2.5 per month for the foreseeable, whereas the model 3 will hit 25K per month by the end of this year). Reason is that Hyundai are losing money on this, whereas Telsa will be making money on the 3.
max holland hmm thats a bit of an annoyance, yeah I did wonder if this would be at a loss. Thanks for that will have to see my nearest dealer, do you know if they are only selling at select dealers like they did with the Ioniq?
No, they have opened up an online purchase site in the last couple of days. Don't have the details, just search for it.
Thank you for this video 👍
I've recently seen print screens of the ioniq charging at the 175kW charger at Kristinehamn with more than 80kW!
Was that the charging screen on the charger? Keep in mind that the screen there includes heat loss. So the real speed is 70 kW.
Bjørn Nyland yes it was. You're probably right but didn't know heat loss was like 12 kW....
Interesting video. Can I suggest to remove the frame-number from the timer display, if possible? HH:MM:SS is enough, frame is only interesting for editing purpose. Also some graps at the end would be great! Time on X-axis and SOC and speed on a dual Y-axis. Thank you for an exiting race Wednesday! I hope you can get hands on a Niro before it is time for me to sign the contract.
Can a Chevy bolt do that?
I'm confused. You state a 200 A limit on the plug. The Kona EV's CCS plug? Or the 175 kW charger's plug? The charger should be able to provide close to 350 A, correct?
No. Charger can deliver up to 800 V.
Bummer. Any > 200 A chargers in your area? Or do we already know 200 A is the Kona's limit? It looks like it's using very similar cells to the Bolt EV/Ampera-E.
Good work! Thanks!
What Brand of Charger was this?
"Hyundai Kona charging on 70 kW"
on 175kW charger at 70kW
SimDoes. How about “Hyundai Kona charging at 70 kw on a 175 kw charger”, would that make you happy? Then it would have been a spoiler title. LOL.
That title would be too long.
Bjørn Nyland why not meet 100kw?...
Like Ioniq !!!?
Tanks Bjorn, Batteries do not warm contrary to Leaf ?
The Kona has active liquid cooling - totally competent for keeping things healthy and fast. The Leaf that has NO active cooling at all (not even cold air blowing). Leaf is a terrible battery management design. See articles on Leaf vs. Long Journey.
No car can accept 70 kW without some active cooling as it would cook the batteries over a decent charge duration.
It's a good new for me and thanks Max ;)
Active cooling was on until 83 %. Man's not hot. And neither was the battery.
Thanks Bjorn for this precision...
Yes, 25 kW of power (where we were at 83%), there is very little heat gain if the cells are a decent chemistry, so the cooling can take a rest... Thank you Bjorn, fantastic data.
Pity we didn't get closer to 80 kW that the designers had mentioned, but still excellent to be able to get from 10% to 80% in 50:22, and as you say 57% ( 28:58 before 1st taper starts) or 73% (40:25 before 2nd taper starts) are both plenty of range in this little beast.
can you use the tesla supercharger with Kona?
no
Is the 200 amp limit on the car or the charger side?
I belive in the plug.
It's a limit of the CCS specification so both should limit it to 200 amps and are probably fused at 200 in case the other one messes up.
Not as good as expected, but still okay. I can live with that :-)
Nice, I know someone who is a 80Km daily driver.
Why is it charging at that speed? Is the car capable of charging faster?
We don't know yet.
The limitation can be the battery. Like in AmperaE and Zoe40 the NCM622 have a 1C charging rate
I think this should be the Minimum on journeys a BEV can charge and of course it has to be stable. If you are not always driving too long tours, the Koreans are absolutely okay. For me efficience is more important...
Chargers are like wlan standards. For example the 150Mbit N reach the half speed, if you are lucky :D
Nice musik
I don't understand.
We don't know if the battery was "warm" when it started (I assume it would have been to get to the charger)
since it started at 11%, shouldn't it have got up to around 150kw while it was somewhere in the 20 to 60% and then tapper off as it got full?
It was warm. Trust me. Kona supports up to 100 kW on paper. But we don't know if that means "100 kW fast charger which has max 200 A ouput" or if it can truly take 100 kW.
so is this going to happen to the Jaguar iPace as well?
will these 100 kw cars only charge at that speed if they are the higher voltage ones (like the 800volt porchse ones?)
afaik CCS charging limits the current at about 200 amps and iirc 850 volts. lets say the batteries are about 400 volts (using round numbers to keep it simple). 200X400 = 80000 watts. so about 80kW If you were to dump 850 volts (the max CCS supports) into a 400volt battery you will have fireworks.
even if you could up the amps, I'm not sure that would be good for the quality of the battery in the long run though ;)
Probably. I will find out as soon as I test I-Pace.
Its so funny, even with Optimus nerfed(115kw with new battery), no car can beat 94kw yet.
But still, Model 3 has some serious competition now. E-Golf, i3, I-Pace, LEAF... will have a very hard time beating that performance. I don't like the front design of the Kona. But its ok for the price. With the IONIQ(bigger battery) Hyundai are the only ones who can challenge Tesla right now.
100% took exactly twice as long as 80%.
Jehan Kateli pretty standard for the last 10-20% to take much longer. Harder to cram those electrons in without damaging the battery. Pretty similar to the trickle charge you see on mobiles after 80%. There are tricks round it like put in a 120% battery and ‘lie’ about the capacity.. but not a cheap option.
Cool music
How is this due to CCS limitation? Surely one can't blame the throttling at 57% to the CCS "limitation". Hyundai only claims approx. 54 minutes to 80% SoC at a 100 kW *charger*. They have never claimed 100 kW actual speed, although I bet a lot of Hyundai dealers have and I guess that's why people keep on dreaming about these charging speeds on Ioniq and Kona (same with Kia Soul).
It is the same for all manufactures, they refer to a loading standard instead of real speead. indicated minutes to 80% are however correct.
as scientific as possible. and hyundai didn't even have to set up a "supercharger network". good job
60kWh Leaf charges faster, more than 100kW. Still not bad at all for the Kona.
Maybe 1 charge... After that the thing is already near to being overheated....
@@samusaran7317 After the second charge probably, but is a minor use case for the actual Leaf. Anyway is not a significant problem for mass market or Nissan, less alone for them having a liquid cooled platform already available next year.
Interesting. Useful.
Wouldn't it be cool if teslas had lithium ion instead of lead acid for the second battery
Ok pour une charge 513 Km. À suivre de mes prochains tests
Chargingspeed is similar to my Ioniq.
I really wish this car had chademo charging instead
hehe, 150 kw ? The max. was only 70 kw. Not good ! And before everyone was bashing on the Nissan leaf 2018.
The Leaf is doing well without battery cooling is you see this with battery cooling !
leaf is more like 30-45.... so... 70 is still 50% to 100% better
70kW is basically the current limit of the charger combined with this voltage battery pack. It's as good as you can do on a budget without making the battery even bigger..
The leaf is not doing well without battery cooling. A full power charge of 10-80% adds around 20 Celsius, and then you're next charges are throttled. See #rapidgate, and Bjorn's other videos.
70 is more than 50% less of 150. My point is that Hyundai is wrong ( a lot) about the charging speed.
Hyundai isn't wrong about the charging speed.. they list slightly under an hour (58 mins I think) for charging upto 80% that prettymuch matches what I'm seeing in the video.
It supports charging on the newer 150kW chargers.. and allows charging over the 50 kW limit on the older chargers.. they didn't promise miracles that everybody knew weren't gonna happen.
Ok, new rules for the race. The model X needs to be towing a 70 x 14 foot mobile home and the Kona gets a 30 minute head start. LOL
Richard Petek, yes, these aren’t really races. More like a combination of luck and experience, since both are limited to the speed limit + 10 Km/h. Under these rules I could beat a P90D in a short 1000 km race driving a 1990 Geo Metro. But move the race to the autobahn and the Tesla can easily beat a Kona because it can charge twice as fast and maintain a higher speed.
Bjørn, you should probably change the title, it's a little misleading. ;)
It's not misleading. It was charging *on* 175 kW charger *at* max 70 kW. People who understand this will know.
The Kona has a max charge rate of 80kw according to the specs. It’s good to see the real world performance. I don’t find the title misleading. Thanks, Bjorn! 👍🏻
I *do* understand it, but there are people who don't have too much knowledge on this.
You've changed it for the better now, so thank you very much! :D
Not ripped off ass but 70kw it’s like Tesla city supercharger
Kona consumes about 66 % of Tesla. So this equals to about 100-110 kW if Kona consumed the same as Tesla.
Depend on the model of course.. S75D can easily average 160-170 on the route you tested.
If soon the CCS 2.0 are impemented in the new ultra fast chargers, KONA will get his 100 kW, also i-Pace because this 200A limit then not longer exists.
I hope really, that other companies take the offer from Tesla, and make partnerships for the SUCs.
Why not Hunday or Jaguar?
With the model 3 some will change. Tesla have the CSS standard, only other plugs.
We all hope that the M3 will get a combo2 plug in europe, and the europe SUCs also will get the combo2 plug on a part of their chargers.
Current Model S and Model x should not be affected and get the chargers exlusive (that have no combo2 plug).
Future model S and X can have an advantage from the CCS 2.0 parameters, more as 125 kW.
On the other side, in future Tesla can in europe use all new fast charager infrastructures, SUC, Ionity, ultra-e and so on and 1000s of the 50 kW Trippel Chargers with combo2 without the Chademo-Adapter.
This would be a win win situation for Tesla and SUC partners.
Nope. According to a response from Hyundai, they claim that Kona only supports 200 A.
That is sad to hear. But maybe Hyundai/KIA would be able to optimize their charging curve a little better over time. Instead of sudden BMS drop down at 57% & 73% SoC a more gradual/stepped decline, giving a higher average charging speed between ~ 10-80%. However, even at 70/56kW maximums, it would average 66.7kW up to 73%, combining that with it's high efficiency, it can actually compete with Model 3 in total travel times for 500-800km highway journeys (@120km/h) in my spreadsheet.
@Prom Prometheus how much kW do you get at home with schuko on AC? Ever tried the 11kW socket type 2 on public chargers? I heard in Austria the maximum power delivered with single phase charging is limited to 3.7 kW (230V*16A) because of "Schieflast"prevention, can you confirm that?
If the maximum of this CSS charger is 200A and this car gets 75kW charging rate, then what car can charge at 175kW? Another stupid marketing scheme?
Full charge only 10 min.
No, the video is sped up. More like 45mins to 80%
Boooooring waiting )))))) Tesla with his 1 hour charging the best ))
Now THAT was a misleading title.
steffeo1, not misleading. It’s the title we all were waiting for. Charging on a 100+ kW charger. And the video answers the questions we’ve all been waiting for.
Not at all. Read description.
Bjørn Nyland the title on mobile is visible first, and in all fairness you should write charging on 175kw charger. What you are writing is that you are charging on 175 kw, witch you are not. Not that it's actually a big deal :)
I am First pepole
Title misleading
+Narrowgauge7.25 Not misleading qat all. The charger can deliver 175 kW.
52 mins to 80% is a complete joke even if it has a 64 Kwh battery. Charges at 70 Kw, That's only 20 Kw more than my BMW i3 can manage. Yes 20 Kw more but it's not enough to convince me to change. I'd still like if the i3 had 70 Kw.
I'll wait for the Model 3 or See what BMW brings out in the next 1-2 years.
Kona is also very over priced and quite ugly inside, even the updated Ioniq interior is far better. The Kona is a 20 K Euro car with a 20 K Euro battery !
I could live with a 40 Kwh car if it could charge at a real 150 Kw.
There is still no resolution to cold battery charging which can greatly slow down , the BMW i3, Kona, Ioniq heat their batteries but only when plugged into the mains and an i3 can charge as little as 25 Kw at 6 Deg C, half the power of a battery that is 20 Deg C.(battery temp ) I don't know the extent of the problem with the Hyundai's but all batteries suffer in the cold.
The AC battery cooling in the i3 is great, can drive hard as you want and charge as much as you want and the max temp you will see is about 35 Deg C and then the AC kicks in and cools to about 30 Deg C and then at 29 Dec there is no more cooling, great system.
disliked due to untrue tittle. (Although I did not hit the unlike button)