If a DLC focused on the Ancestral Followers, what would you want to see? More Ancestral Magic? A Clan leader boss? About their future or origin story? We hope you enjoyed the video, and stay tuned for part 2!
different clan of ancestral followers, the true ancestrals. the current ancestral followers descendet from them and refused to take on their culture of runes and metalworkings due to from soft reasons
A player faction you can join or something akin, at least including a follower friendly NPC to help us understand this stuff in a more intimate and less antagonistic way maybe, in addition to bosses and competing factions and all that. Definitely more Ancestral Magic and maybe weapons and clothing too.
One day a group of Nox proclaimed, "Reject humanity! Return to Monke!" They robbed a bunch of Onyx Lords of their garments. And thus the Ancestral Followers were born. They say that to this day, you can still find wandering Onyx Lords, eternally seeking for their lost clothes.
I know you're joking but honestly, the Followers being descendants of the Nox might not be so crazy after all. They are the only known creatures to have a similar skin tone to the Silver Tear enemies, as well as the Nightfolk starting class. I could totally see them abandoning the ways of the Eternal Cities and take up a more Crucible oriented faith instead.
I am speechless after learning the details of the Ancestral Spirit boss fight. Such artistry in video games deserves recognition by a wider audience. It’s a masterpiece you could spend years analyzing and I feel downright spoiled enjoying this amazing content from all the creators in the community.
I agree. Every time I watch videos like this I don’t know whether to be in awe more of the creativity of the developers or the knowledge and connections the community makes
It is curious that From would refer to the "antler-like horns" as horns and not simply "antlers". Antlers are made of calcium and fall off, growing back through "velvet" skin (as far as deer are concerned). Horns, on tge other hand, are made of keratin, the same material as fingernails and hooves. Keratin is made of amino acids, or chains of proteins, and proteins are the "building blocks of life". That they would make a distinction means more than we may think. I wonder sometimes if the Followers eschew metal because they know that metal (gold and silver, etc) can create Omen if one is tending buds. Perhaps there are "blessed" horns (of the Ancestral Spirit) and there are "cursed" horns (of the Omen). After all, the Omen horns are different from the horns that the Followers worship. Perhaps the use of metal causes the Omen to grow horns wildly after so much repression, similar to how Miquella's Needle can build up Scarlet Rot inside of Millicent, causing her to bloom if we betray her in the end. This game is all about "return of the repressed".
@@theaveragesquire the Ancestral Spirit Followers avoid metals, yet await the day when they will sprout buds. The Omens, on the other hand, are shackled by metal, are cut by metal weapons, are exposed to metal and the Erdtree at the Capitol. I suspect that the missing "ingredient" for the Followers, therefore, must be metals. It could be that the Followers know that metals will cause someone to sprout the accursed horns of Omen rather than the leaf-tipped horns of the Ancestral Spirits. It might be something akin to an allergic reaction, or a cancerous reaction. It should also be noted that in real life the Cutaneous horns that can sprout from human skin can be caused by sun damage to the skin (or overexposure). In Elden Ring the Elden Ring itself is not unlike the sun in our world. There is no visible sun in Elden Ring. Perhaps the light of Grace, or of the Elden Ring, acts as the sun. If one is overexposed to the Elden Ring (and metals together) it may cause Omen horns to grow like tumors in the body. It is of especial note that in the real world a cutaneous horn is a precursor to actual cancer. The Dungeater seems to verify this, too, by the presence of his metal Sun medallion. He spreads the Omen curse similar to how the sun can cause cutaneous horns to sprout in human skin.
@@theaveragesquire While, I shouldn't speak for Marzcal, based on Hawkshaw's Color Theory video gold's property is to maintain or constrain certain properties, mostly with regards to change. Items tinged with gold remain ripe and don't decay. We the player use golden runes to retain collected strength and experience. While silver can be used to change form like explained in this video. However, I'd imagine, too much of either can result in potential problems arising. Giving Boc a Larval Tear (one who is debateably not born from the Erdtree and from a mother as Melina puts it), end up in his death after using it. The Omens are theorized to be the harrowing of the decline of the golden order. That's at least how I understood it.
It might just be something that got lost in translation. Which wouldn't be entirely uncommon. If the Japanese description also makes this mistake. It might mean something. Or thy developers simply missed the difference between what makes horns, horns, and antlers, antlers.
During your segment on "life from death," I'm surprised you didn't mention their greathammers. They restore HP with every kill, similar to the talisman you get from the remembrance giving you FP on kill. (There's also an axe that gives FP on kill dropped by a death bird, but maybe that's a story for another time.)
Yeah, I think the ancestral spirits have a connection to the deathbirds through that axe you mentioned and the winged greathorn, which is also an axe. Both flames have a similar color, and seem to be used to separate the soul from the body.
Didn't realize til now how similar the ancestral spirit's horns look to the winged greathorn's wings. Particularly when the horns light up. The light kind of fills in the empty space, the way skin flaps on wings connect the bones. So I think the spirit horns aren't just a combination of horns and buds, but also wings. A 3-in-1 representation of the Crucible.
I think it makes sense to group the ancestral followers with groups like the Dominula women, revanchist cultures that were suppressed during the time of the erdtree. Good theory!
After looking at the ancestors spirit up close, it reminded me so much of the elder dragon Vaal Hazak from monster hunter world in a couple respects. Vaal is alive, but uses the carcasses of the dead as armor and the spirit uses the raw magical energy of dead animals for power. Vaal also shows nature's ability to be conflicting and harmonious. Vaal Hazak has a symbiosis relationship with a microb species to that acts like fungi that take energy from other things (except in Vaals case it draws energy from creatures cells directly? I'm not a micro biologist). Even their arenas are similar in both decoration and theme. Both are animal graveyard, yet are key to foster new life, strength and vitality. Vaal lives deep below and the decomposition of all beings, including the powerful elder dragons, gives the environment the energy it needs to create the beautiful wonder of the coral Highlands. The ancestors spirit gives life and strength to a complete culture.
In regards to metalworking in Elden Ring, there is also the connection it has with the flame of ruin and the Fell God. Which could be another reason why the Ancestral Followers would reject its use.
*15 min of insanely well researched lore into the video* So now we decided to really dig into the history of the ancestral followers... Damn, this gonna be a good video
There is a theory that Torrents master was Miquella because we can see Miquella riding Torrent in the DLC poster and when ranni gives us his whistle, she also gives us the three wolf spirit summon who belonged to torrents former master. In the Haligtree There is a statue of Miquella Surrounded by 3 Wolves.
@@oscarcordero7811 miquella and Ranni both shared the ambition of removing the influence of the Outer Gods. Sometimes I do wonder if Godwyn the Golden felt the same way and voluntarily committed himself to the Black Knife plot for Ranni and Miquella to work toward some greater goal. Ranni sets her reign for 1000 years. As if she plans to hand the reigns over to what comes next. If Miquella is still growing or can be moved back to the Haligtree, its possible that the 1000 years would be what it takes to reverse the damage to his Haligtree and usher in the next Age as an immortal Demigod and Empyrean.
finally someone is covering these guys. I've always wondered what their connection with the scarlet rot is but I couldnt be bothered to go lore-hunting. I hope theres an answer to that question in these videos. even if there isnt, i still find them very interesting.
I think the ancestral followers are most interesting in how they provide us with insights into the culture of the ancient dynasty. They obviously have their differences, as you might expect from cultures separated by centuries, but their one commonality seems to be the worship of ancestor spirits. We always find their bodies placed in positions of prominence within what appear to be ancient Greco-Roman style temples. While it’s possible the ancestral followers put them there, it fits the MO of the ancient dynasty, as we can find an even grander site of worship for the ancient Rot Scorpion
The issue with that lies in the blind swordsman’s own lore, as it’s mentioned he sealed away the god of Rot, which suggests it’s at the Lake of Rot. If that’s true, then that could mean that large structure could’ve very well have no ties to Rot worship and simply became inhabited for worship later on after it was sealed. If anything, that large structure reminds me of a water system due to being placed in such a large body of water and having it flow throughout it. Additionally, Followers used to be there. But the Ancestor Spirit remains may very well be from the Followers since we find 0 remains in the Uhl Ruins in Ainsel from the Liurnia entrance, in the overworld ruins where those Followers worship the Erdtree and in Mohg’s Palace. Ancestor Spirit remains seem to be their thing, so the Ancient Dynasty also having the remains seem less likely the more you examine the other 3 locations.
"Distinctive horn suffused with the power of ancestral spirits. This large, wing-shaped specimen is wielded as a weapon of spirit worship. In the ancestral spirit-worshipping faith, these are considered envoys' wings, made to reap the lives of beings which experience no sprouting." Whilst this is shown in current tense, it depicts the image of wings, showing that at the very least, the faith of the Ancestral Spirits may go back to the time before the Erdtree, when the envoys of death were still honored.
This is an insanely good video! The culmination of everything at the end, with the details from the Ancestral Spirit boss fight perfectly showing the Life from Death premise, was beautiful - Not only does it show how much detail From Software put into the game, it also shows the amount of research and dedication on your part. Great, great work! P.S. - The OST of this boss fight is amazingly haunting.
They may be as separate from the nature of the Erdtree as we think. The Ancestral Spirit's antlers or horns are like branches. They be branches on some level.
You have a channel that I started to follow bc of a friend's advice back in the DS1 days, I think it was the video about Demons and their society. I was also amazed back then, and keep watching all of your videos. I feel incredibly lucky each time you post a video that I can watch it and in general that I'm in this community. Keep up the great work you've been doing ever since the start.
They may be humanoid, but their size, by the logic we see in game, certainly suggests an ancient bloodline. I reckon they were oldbloods in the Erdtree society who, upon the sealing of death, returned to their elden roots. Literally, in the case of the underground ones.
I like this idea but I have 2 problems with it 1) The Ancestral Followers might not have any relics or writing about them because they dont have a written language. Often archaeologists struggle to learn about ancient cultures that dont have a form of writing for the same reasons. 2) The descriptions of the Siofra and Ainsel explicitly say that their rivers are the site of civilizations that predate the Erdtree and thats where most of them are found
This is true but even without written languages, the sign of someone having lived upon a stretch of land usually leaves imprints. The tools or traces of the Ancestral Followers that are present never point towards a distant past. On your second point, the previous civilisations that lived close to the Siofra and Ainsel may well have been ancient but it’s also likely that the Ancestral Followers arent.
I love the summon for these guys they never miss and they deal somewhat hood damage at max and if they have multiple little enemies they heal after every kill
I always figured the master hunters to be the descendants of the underground cities that weren't overly affected by what became of the others. With the only thing keeping them down there being a curse. Die example. The place above ground there's a ruhle palace ruins
14:48 they are surrounded by ruins of an ancient culture. Perhaps these “Followers” are the descendants of this society who have gone back to a nature focused lifestyle. There are reliefs depicting animals in those locations. Adding to this many of the reliefs depict a Bull and the horn headdresses of the Followers aren’t from any deer. But a bull’s horns. A clear connection between the two. Might be related GRRM loves to depict societies who regress from being technologically advanced to being more primitive. The Jaenshi in “And Seven Times Never Kill Man”, the effects of the interregnum on the 1000 Worlds. The castles and buildings in ASOIAF being more advanced than what they can create in the time of the story.
It's definitely a conceit to think of such thing as a "regression". If converting to such a lifestyle was their own choice, not coerced by violence, then they didn't "fall", they progressed. They evolved as a culture. It's known that indigenous tribes in the American Great Plains had periods where they settled into agrarian societies, based around agriculture and "traditional" hierarchical structures. But as they changed, or were forced to change by shifts in climate that made such lifestyles unfavorable, would abandon sedentary agrarianism for more egalitarian social structures based on hunting and gathering. Such change was not a "fall", but understood to be fluid and cyclic. More importantly, it was a self-driven change. The people chose to settle, and to roam, without top-down coercion or external cultures forcing a change (until European contact). So I believe it more fair to keep one's mind open about the Followers. Not every "fall" to a perceived less advanced way of life is a regression or bad thing. It really is a western conceit that people living with less technology were somehow forced into that way of life, or are somehow less cultured. The richness of all people's cultures, regardless of technical advancement, were a pleasant surprise for me when I first began my journey into anthropology.
@@TheSuperRatt Agreed! But regression is just describing the switch from more developed to less, it’s not an appraisal of the way of life. (P.S widespread disease post contact and a comet impact much earlier may have affected that as well. P.P.S much of the people of the Americas would be considered settled in someways. They lived in longhouses, and adobe. They cultivated corn, camas fields, squash, turkeys. The peoples in central and South America’s cities and nations were large enough to rival Europe. They had so many books. Much of it was swallowed by the jungle after contact disease swept through it and what survived was sacked but it existed.
@@lastEvergreen It depends on what you consider “development” to be. For example nomadic societies have shown to have no lacking in social infrastructure even if they do in the physical. The word “development” has in our word kind of taken a somewhat euphemistic meaning since many people now try to reject the “primitive” and “advanced” ideas, where such connotations are more obvious. There is no great way of weighing “more developed” and “less developed” and such terminology, at least in an academic atmosphere (which TH-cam comments obviously aren’t) should certainly be avoided, as these are subjective prescriptions. But for that reason “regression” certainly does hold unspoken connotations and appraisal as well. As for your point about the Americas, it’s silly either way to say who is considered settled and who isn’t, as these are definitions imposed on people who at many times did not make these distinctions, and even if we were to do that, many “settled” people were more often semi-nomadic (“settled” in one part of year and “nomadic” in another). And of course there were societies completely “settled” as well, but that does not make them more “developed” than those who didn’t.
Can’t wait for part 2! Amazing work! I’m not sure if you mentioned it and I missed it, but I’m pretty sure you can see the animals praying behind the ancestral followers.
Great video! I'd never considered that their society is a more recent one that may have came about from the sealing of Destined Death! In my opinion, the ancestral follower's worship of nature, and the civilization of Uhl represent "Deus In Rebus" (God in all things). The divine is not only of the gods, but is present in all things. I believe this is what the Arcane stat represents, one drawing upon the inner (divine) power found within. That and Hyetta's dialogue about a split from the One is very gnostic to me. In Gnosticism, salvation is not found in Gods or Messiahs, but through spiritual knowledge to return to the One.
Their use of oil probably involves the use of bones, since oil comes from fossils. Bones are very similar to horns, so it makes sense. Plus as you pointed out, the bottoms of the obelisks also have fires with bones as fuel, which could be paralleled by this potential use of bones as fuel on top (in the oil). Another thing I found interesting is the phrasing "from death comes power". This is true in multiple senses, because the ancestral followers are using death to _power_ their torches. Ironic that the chest guarded by the ancestral follower has metal on it, even though they apparently eschew metalworking. Either it shows an inconsistency, or it's showing how they might be "evolving" and taking on more influences from the modern world.
All things considered, they seem to be like Druids. They live amongst nature, the animals, and don’t appear to have any written history. They seem to ignore most things and focus on plants and animals.
Seems a bit too coincidental that they venerate sprouting horns when there are the Omen who are born with them. I wonder how connected they are to the Crucible Knights…given that some of the Knights are too close to the Ancestral Followers.
Surprised you didn’t note that a lot of the Ancestral items scale with intelligence. This notes that their connection with nature isn’t rooted solely in faith, but also intelligence. They genuine utilization stems from their intelligence. Which I find very respectable, since INT is usually associated with greater study of the stars, and not so often nature and the earth. This could also hint that much like sorcerers derive power from the study of their stars, the followers derive some power from their study of nature and it’d natural resources.
I love that the Ancestral Followers are basically Leyndel's version of Primitivists. It makes a lot of sense of their magical arts and the fact that they are more dressed to look like ideals of primitive peoples than in any actual utilitarian fashion.
Awesome stuff, I always kinda assumed without proof that the followers were hippies choosing their lifestyle instead of the erdtree but I always thought they were just a random tribe like an artistic motif of “dark age” European tribal peoples dwelling in the ruins of Rome, I think I like your theory more!
13:20 yeah english is hecked and Ancestral in this context means older and since they're followers it would be something more like, Followers of the Ancestors. Meaning they themselves dont have to be the ancestral. They just learned of them somehow and started doing what they did
Hey Hawkshaw, lovely work as always! You're one of my favourite Soulstubers and my #1 for DS1 especially. Thanks extra in this vid for the message at 5:28 regarding sensitivity to the topics of culture & gender; I value your empathy and openness.
Unlinked side thought from looking at footage of the underground... Are the broken giant trees found all through the underground relics of the crucible ie the competitor growths, one of which became the erdtree?
Correct. Just like when the Anglo-Saxons invaded Britannia, pushing out the ancient Britons and taking their land. That's the story of m@nkind in every country and every generation. The unfortunate damage caused by original sin.
@Hawkshaw, what if the Ancestral followers are remanants of the Nox who built those great structures and fled when Marika and the Erdtree came? And they eschew technology and progress as it drew them into conflict with outside forces, so they flee from the Golden Order. Since their flesh never sprouted horns, they evidently never had Omens or Misbegotten amongst their people, so they were never touched by the Crucible, all things that Humans experienced, but possibly not the Nox. This also fits in with their affinity to the stars and the various ruins. They want horns, but have never had them. They pray to their ancestors, who have a connection to the stars, but also to death with their weapons (Nox and the focus on spirits).
I’m only five minutes in but so far this is beautifully scripted. I forgot to subscribe to you after the Color Theory video, but I didn’t forget this time 😉 Love from Mongolia 🙏🏼🐎🐎🐎🇲🇳
Thank you so much for enriching the Followers! Pretty much team Ancestral. But the fact that there wasn't much history, as you pointed out, I always felt wanting. This video was so thorough and really made me wanna stamp my feet. I did want to comment on a particularly curious anatomical similarity (and possible correlation?) between... Trolls, Followers, Erd Beast (specifically arms/legs/torso ratio, as I think the beast is an amalgamation), and the Ancient bearded old guy holding the stone tablet. *drops mic* ... *picks mic back up* I mean, the Followers did develop from something/somewhere/somehow. Maybe they're Giants sans Fell God?? *redrops mic* *dodges tomato*
Just discovered this video as well as this channel when researching these mysterious beings and wow... Amazing presentation. Subbed and looking forward to watching more of your content!
Just beat these areas & ancestral Spirit bosses just got to the lake of rot tonight and completed Nokron for the second time round this time the girlfriend and i are doing a playthrough together elden ring is her first souls game and she is loving the ancestral followers and lore having just run through this all again tonight made everything remarkably vivid and fresh as could be for this video super awesome perfect coincidence then again I'm not really one for believing in coincidences.. ❤✌
I'd been wondering why I hadn't seen any recent updates to the channel. Found out I wasn't subscribed anymore this is the fourth channel I follow this has happened with recently, but I'm so glad I have a lot to catch up on !!
Mercury is a chemical element with the symbol Hg and atomic number 80. It is also known as quicksilver and was formerly named hydrargyrum Pretty sure it is
A lack of historic evidence is not a case for a newer timeline, a big part of your argument hinges on this fact, but as you also stated they live of the land, so they would be like many societies in the real world, and would leave nothing behind but the nature that you find. I would say that this just further points to the fact that they were here first and were slowly pushed out and their culture eroded to what we see.
Hey @Hawkshaw, just doing a rewatch and I wondered if you had a theory for why the ancestral followers are congregating around the minor erdtree and avatar in eastern liurnia. If they are rejecting erdtree culture in general what is their concern with a minor erdtree?
Hawkshaw, thank you for you’re hard work, we all appreciate it. You’re an amazing, wonderful, incredible, and awesome person. ☺️😊😄😃🤩😍 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Are you a fan of roguelike games? I swear I heard some background tracks from Hades and Cult of The Lamb! Excellent video, by the way. Edit - I just saw the entire playlist, haha.
If a DLC focused on the Ancestral Followers, what would you want to see? More Ancestral Magic? A Clan leader boss? About their future or origin story?
We hope you enjoyed the video, and stay tuned for part 2!
I can't describe how funny a manscaped ad being read in the same manner as the rest of the video essay is
different clan of ancestral followers, the true ancestrals. the current ancestral followers descendet from them and refused to take on their culture of runes and metalworkings due to from soft reasons
A player faction you can join or something akin, at least including a follower friendly NPC to help us understand this stuff in a more intimate and less antagonistic way maybe, in addition to bosses and competing factions and all that. Definitely more Ancestral Magic and maybe weapons and clothing too.
if i buy manscaped without using your link, but explicitly tell them your hilarious ad inspired me to, do you think they'd sponsor you more?
TWIN IRON BALLS
One day a group of Nox proclaimed, "Reject humanity! Return to Monke!"
They robbed a bunch of Onyx Lords of their garments.
And thus the Ancestral Followers were born.
They say that to this day, you can still find wandering Onyx Lords, eternally seeking for their lost clothes.
😂
Finally an explanation for why they're naked!
That's canon. Its in the lore
Hilarious comment lol
I know you're joking but honestly, the Followers being descendants of the Nox might not be so crazy after all. They are the only known creatures to have a similar skin tone to the Silver Tear enemies, as well as the Nightfolk starting class. I could totally see them abandoning the ways of the Eternal Cities and take up a more Crucible oriented faith instead.
yes yes yes yes, perhaps now I can replace hawshaws video on the Colour Theory as my bedtime story 🥳
You're gonna end up with 8 Manscaping Kits through the power of subliminal messaging... 😉
@@ruthsagers1714 hawkshaw made me shave my balls
Avgn is good cause he has like 15 seasons of content all boiled down to a big Ole playlist. Oneyplays is good too.
By the power of Adblock, my dreams are protected to only be subliminally influenced by Hawkshaw's dulcet tones and sweet lore.
Search in TH-cam: the entire history of Elden Ring.
It’s a 3 part series over 25 hours of content. Channel is called SmoughTown
I am speechless after learning the details of the Ancestral Spirit boss fight. Such artistry in video games deserves recognition by a wider audience. It’s a masterpiece you could spend years analyzing and I feel downright spoiled enjoying this amazing content from all the creators in the community.
I agree. Every time I watch videos like this I don’t know whether to be in awe more of the creativity of the developers or the knowledge and connections the community makes
It is curious that From would refer to the "antler-like horns" as horns and not simply "antlers". Antlers are made of calcium and fall off, growing back through "velvet" skin (as far as deer are concerned). Horns, on tge other hand, are made of keratin, the same material as fingernails and hooves. Keratin is made of amino acids, or chains of proteins, and proteins are the "building blocks of life". That they would make a distinction means more than we may think.
I wonder sometimes if the Followers eschew metal because they know that metal (gold and silver, etc) can create Omen if one is tending buds. Perhaps there are "blessed" horns (of the Ancestral Spirit) and there are "cursed" horns (of the Omen). After all, the Omen horns are different from the horns that the Followers worship. Perhaps the use of metal causes the Omen to grow horns wildly after so much repression, similar to how Miquella's Needle can build up Scarlet Rot inside of Millicent, causing her to bloom if we betray her in the end. This game is all about "return of the repressed".
how is silver or metal related to omens?
@@theaveragesquire the Ancestral Spirit Followers avoid metals, yet await the day when they will sprout buds. The Omens, on the other hand, are shackled by metal, are cut by metal weapons, are exposed to metal and the Erdtree at the Capitol. I suspect that the missing "ingredient" for the Followers, therefore, must be metals. It could be that the Followers know that metals will cause someone to sprout the accursed horns of Omen rather than the leaf-tipped horns of the Ancestral Spirits. It might be something akin to an allergic reaction, or a cancerous reaction. It should also be noted that in real life the Cutaneous horns that can sprout from human skin can be caused by sun damage to the skin (or overexposure). In Elden Ring the Elden Ring itself is not unlike the sun in our world. There is no visible sun in Elden Ring. Perhaps the light of Grace, or of the Elden Ring, acts as the sun. If one is overexposed to the Elden Ring (and metals together) it may cause Omen horns to grow like tumors in the body. It is of especial note that in the real world a cutaneous horn is a precursor to actual cancer. The Dungeater seems to verify this, too, by the presence of his metal Sun medallion. He spreads the Omen curse similar to how the sun can cause cutaneous horns to sprout in human skin.
@@theaveragesquire While, I shouldn't speak for Marzcal, based on Hawkshaw's Color Theory video gold's property is to maintain or constrain certain properties, mostly with regards to change. Items tinged with gold remain ripe and don't decay. We the player use golden runes to retain collected strength and experience. While silver can be used to change form like explained in this video. However, I'd imagine, too much of either can result in potential problems arising. Giving Boc a Larval Tear (one who is debateably not born from the Erdtree and from a mother as Melina puts it), end up in his death after using it. The Omens are theorized to be the harrowing of the decline of the golden order.
That's at least how I understood it.
@@fanart13 plausible,smart
It might just be something that got lost in translation. Which wouldn't be entirely uncommon.
If the Japanese description also makes this mistake. It might mean something. Or thy developers simply missed the difference between what makes horns, horns, and antlers, antlers.
During your segment on "life from death," I'm surprised you didn't mention their greathammers. They restore HP with every kill, similar to the talisman you get from the remembrance giving you FP on kill.
(There's also an axe that gives FP on kill dropped by a death bird, but maybe that's a story for another time.)
Yeah, I think the ancestral spirits have a connection to the deathbirds through that axe you mentioned and the winged greathorn, which is also an axe. Both flames have a similar color, and seem to be used to separate the soul from the body.
That’s some great flavor
Ok glad to hear there's a part 2 because you didn't return to why the followers never miss
Didn't realize til now how similar the ancestral spirit's horns look to the winged greathorn's wings. Particularly when the horns light up. The light kind of fills in the empty space, the way skin flaps on wings connect the bones.
So I think the spirit horns aren't just a combination of horns and buds, but also wings. A 3-in-1 representation of the Crucible.
I think it makes sense to group the ancestral followers with groups like the Dominula women, revanchist cultures that were suppressed during the time of the erdtree. Good theory!
Didn't expect ancestral rump
Just saying I appreciate the little bits of humor just as much as the serious lore dives, best Fromsoft lore channel ❤
After looking at the ancestors spirit up close, it reminded me so much of the elder dragon Vaal Hazak from monster hunter world in a couple respects. Vaal is alive, but uses the carcasses of the dead as armor and the spirit uses the raw magical energy of dead animals for power. Vaal also shows nature's ability to be conflicting and harmonious. Vaal Hazak has a symbiosis relationship with a microb species to that acts like fungi that take energy from other things (except in Vaals case it draws energy from creatures cells directly? I'm not a micro biologist). Even their arenas are similar in both decoration and theme. Both are animal graveyard, yet are key to foster new life, strength and vitality. Vaal lives deep below and the decomposition of all beings, including the powerful elder dragons, gives the environment the energy it needs to create the beautiful wonder of the coral Highlands. The ancestors spirit gives life and strength to a complete culture.
In regards to metalworking in Elden Ring, there is also the connection it has with the flame of ruin and the Fell God. Which could be another reason why the Ancestral Followers would reject its use.
*15 min of insanely well researched lore into the video*
So now we decided to really dig into the history of the ancestral followers...
Damn, this gonna be a good video
Torrent is also an ancestral spirit. Melina exists as a spirit. Shes got to have some connection to the followers.
Melina is no elk skeleton yeah she skinny but damn it man she still my wife ok?
There is a theory that Torrents master was Miquella because we can see Miquella riding Torrent in the DLC poster and when ranni gives us his whistle, she also gives us the three wolf spirit summon who belonged to torrents former master. In the Haligtree There is a statue of Miquella Surrounded by 3 Wolves.
@@oscarcordero7811 miquella and Ranni both shared the ambition of removing the influence of the Outer Gods. Sometimes I do wonder if Godwyn the Golden felt the same way and voluntarily committed himself to the Black Knife plot for Ranni and Miquella to work toward some greater goal. Ranni sets her reign for 1000 years. As if she plans to hand the reigns over to what comes next. If Miquella is still growing or can be moved back to the Haligtree, its possible that the 1000 years would be what it takes to reverse the damage to his Haligtree and usher in the next Age as an immortal Demigod and Empyrean.
Terrible take my nigga
@@mr.ashenfire2624There's literally nothing supporting the idea that Godwyn allowed himself to be murdered and turned into a crispy mermaid.
finally someone is covering these guys. I've always wondered what their connection with the scarlet rot is but I couldnt be bothered to go lore-hunting. I hope theres an answer to that question in these videos. even if there isnt, i still find them very interesting.
I think the ancestral followers are most interesting in how they provide us with insights into the culture of the ancient dynasty. They obviously have their differences, as you might expect from cultures separated by centuries, but their one commonality seems to be the worship of ancestor spirits. We always find their bodies placed in positions of prominence within what appear to be ancient Greco-Roman style temples. While it’s possible the ancestral followers put them there, it fits the MO of the ancient dynasty, as we can find an even grander site of worship for the ancient Rot Scorpion
The issue with that lies in the blind swordsman’s own lore, as it’s mentioned he sealed away the god of Rot, which suggests it’s at the Lake of Rot. If that’s true, then that could mean that large structure could’ve very well have no ties to Rot worship and simply became inhabited for worship later on after it was sealed. If anything, that large structure reminds me of a water system due to being placed in such a large body of water and having it flow throughout it.
Additionally, Followers used to be there. But the Ancestor Spirit remains may very well be from the Followers since we find 0 remains in the Uhl Ruins in Ainsel from the Liurnia entrance, in the overworld ruins where those Followers worship the Erdtree and in Mohg’s Palace. Ancestor Spirit remains seem to be their thing, so the Ancient Dynasty also having the remains seem less likely the more you examine the other 3 locations.
That Cult of the Lamb music in the background slapped 😂👍🏼
"Distinctive horn suffused with the power of ancestral spirits. This large, wing-shaped specimen is wielded as a weapon of spirit worship.
In the ancestral spirit-worshipping faith, these are considered envoys' wings, made to reap the lives of beings which experience no sprouting."
Whilst this is shown in current tense, it depicts the image of wings, showing that at the very least, the faith of the Ancestral Spirits may go back to the time before the Erdtree, when the envoys of death were still honored.
This is an insanely good video!
The culmination of everything at the end, with the details from the Ancestral Spirit boss fight perfectly showing the Life from Death premise, was beautiful - Not only does it show how much detail From Software put into the game, it also shows the amount of research and dedication on your part.
Great, great work!
P.S. - The OST of this boss fight is amazingly haunting.
Gotta love that age of mythology music
And the hollow knight music too! :)
you did my favorite culture in the game ! My goodness thank you so much!
You always manage to pick up my day with these deep and methodical takes. Thanks again over these long years for being you.
They may be as separate from the nature of the Erdtree as we think. The Ancestral Spirit's antlers or horns are like branches. They be branches on some level.
You have a channel that I started to follow bc of a friend's advice back in the DS1 days, I think it was the video about Demons and their society. I was also amazed back then, and keep watching all of your videos. I feel incredibly lucky each time you post a video that I can watch it and in general that I'm in this community. Keep up the great work you've been doing ever since the start.
They may be humanoid, but their size, by the logic we see in game, certainly suggests an ancient bloodline. I reckon they were oldbloods in the Erdtree society who, upon the sealing of death, returned to their elden roots.
Literally, in the case of the underground ones.
Bro really went and put AOM music in this video! Great content as always Hawkshaw
You can tell you all had way too much fun scripting that manscaped ad. That was hilarious…and informative.
My cousin should be spokesman. His last name is Balsacchio
@@AC-hj9tvwhat’s his first name - Giuchavemi?
@@yurinoworry oh yea! Cool that you guys know each other 😎
@@AC-hj9tv I actually only know his brother, Gofondlema (we were college roommates) but I’ve heard great things nonetheless!
I like this idea but I have 2 problems with it
1) The Ancestral Followers might not have any relics or writing about them because they dont have a written language. Often archaeologists struggle to learn about ancient cultures that dont have a form of writing for the same reasons.
2) The descriptions of the Siofra and Ainsel explicitly say that their rivers are the site of civilizations that predate the Erdtree and thats where most of them are found
This is true but even without written languages, the sign of someone having lived upon a stretch of land usually leaves imprints. The tools or traces of the Ancestral Followers that are present never point towards a distant past.
On your second point, the previous civilisations that lived close to the Siofra and Ainsel may well have been ancient but it’s also likely that the Ancestral Followers arent.
I love the summon for these guys they never miss and they deal somewhat hood damage at max and if they have multiple little enemies they heal after every kill
I always figured the master hunters to be the descendants of the underground cities that weren't overly affected by what became of the others. With the only thing keeping them down there being a curse. Die example. The place above ground there's a ruhle palace ruins
Manscaped..... it'll leave you shinier than a glintstone pebble
14:48 they are surrounded by ruins of an ancient culture. Perhaps these “Followers” are the descendants of this society who have gone back to a nature focused lifestyle. There are reliefs depicting animals in those locations.
Adding to this many of the reliefs depict a Bull and the horn headdresses of the Followers aren’t from any deer. But a bull’s horns. A clear connection between the two.
Might be related GRRM loves to depict societies who regress from being technologically advanced to being more primitive. The Jaenshi in “And Seven Times Never Kill Man”, the effects of the interregnum on the 1000 Worlds. The castles and buildings in ASOIAF being more advanced than what they can create in the time of the story.
It's definitely a conceit to think of such thing as a "regression". If converting to such a lifestyle was their own choice, not coerced by violence, then they didn't "fall", they progressed. They evolved as a culture. It's known that indigenous tribes in the American Great Plains had periods where they settled into agrarian societies, based around agriculture and "traditional" hierarchical structures. But as they changed, or were forced to change by shifts in climate that made such lifestyles unfavorable, would abandon sedentary agrarianism for more egalitarian social structures based on hunting and gathering. Such change was not a "fall", but understood to be fluid and cyclic. More importantly, it was a self-driven change. The people chose to settle, and to roam, without top-down coercion or external cultures forcing a change (until European contact).
So I believe it more fair to keep one's mind open about the Followers. Not every "fall" to a perceived less advanced way of life is a regression or bad thing. It really is a western conceit that people living with less technology were somehow forced into that way of life, or are somehow less cultured. The richness of all people's cultures, regardless of technical advancement, were a pleasant surprise for me when I first began my journey into anthropology.
@@TheSuperRatt Agreed! But regression is just describing the switch from more developed to less, it’s not an appraisal of the way of life.
(P.S widespread disease post contact and a comet impact much earlier may have affected that as well.
P.P.S much of the people of the Americas would be considered settled in someways. They lived in longhouses, and adobe. They cultivated corn, camas fields, squash, turkeys. The peoples in central and South America’s cities and nations were large enough to rival Europe. They had so many books. Much of it was swallowed by the jungle after contact disease swept through it and what survived was sacked but it existed.
@@lastEvergreen It depends on what you consider “development” to be. For example nomadic societies have shown to have no lacking in social infrastructure even if they do in the physical. The word “development” has in our word kind of taken a somewhat euphemistic meaning since many people now try to reject the “primitive” and “advanced” ideas, where such connotations are more obvious. There is no great way of weighing “more developed” and “less developed” and such terminology, at least in an academic atmosphere (which TH-cam comments obviously aren’t) should certainly be avoided, as these are subjective prescriptions. But for that reason “regression” certainly does hold unspoken connotations and appraisal as well.
As for your point about the Americas, it’s silly either way to say who is considered settled and who isn’t, as these are definitions imposed on people who at many times did not make these distinctions, and even if we were to do that, many “settled” people were more often semi-nomadic (“settled” in one part of year and “nomadic” in another). And of course there were societies completely “settled” as well, but that does not make them more “developed” than those who didn’t.
I'm glad you mentioned MTG, because these guys really feel like a direct adaptation of green philosophy in that game
Big, big, bigger, big, TRAMPLE
Reminds me of the color video. I won't even start on parallels between the color use in MTG and elden ring... Because I'm too drunk.
Based music choices today Hawkshaw
As soon as you released this, I got spam locked by frikin’ marionette soldier! Anyway this is a video I was really hoping would come out
Can’t wait for part 2! Amazing work! I’m not sure if you mentioned it and I missed it, but I’m pretty sure you can see the animals praying behind the ancestral followers.
Great video! I'd never considered that their society is a more recent one that may have came about from the sealing of Destined Death! In my opinion, the ancestral follower's worship of nature, and the civilization of Uhl represent "Deus In Rebus" (God in all things). The divine is not only of the gods, but is present in all things. I believe this is what the Arcane stat represents, one drawing upon the inner (divine) power found within. That and Hyetta's dialogue about a split from the One is very gnostic to me. In Gnosticism, salvation is not found in Gods or Messiahs, but through spiritual knowledge to return to the One.
Their use of oil probably involves the use of bones, since oil comes from fossils. Bones are very similar to horns, so it makes sense. Plus as you pointed out, the bottoms of the obelisks also have fires with bones as fuel, which could be paralleled by this potential use of bones as fuel on top (in the oil). Another thing I found interesting is the phrasing "from death comes power". This is true in multiple senses, because the ancestral followers are using death to _power_ their torches.
Ironic that the chest guarded by the ancestral follower has metal on it, even though they apparently eschew metalworking. Either it shows an inconsistency, or it's showing how they might be "evolving" and taking on more influences from the modern world.
Great video and work as always. Massive respect for Age of Mythology soundtrack here, it fits perfectly with a theme.
actually the best manscaped sponsorship lmao
All things considered, they seem to be like Druids. They live amongst nature, the animals, and don’t appear to have any written history. They seem to ignore most things and focus on plants and animals.
When he pronounced skeletal as "skatea-al" I was so confused. I thought that was some sort of epic item. Lol
Of all the fascinating races and peoples in Elden Ring, Ancestral Followers are my favorite. Minding their own business in a corner of the world.
You deserve so many more followers than you have. This whole community of content creators for elden ring are incredibly cerebral
Seems a bit too coincidental that they venerate sprouting horns when there are the Omen who are born with them.
I wonder how connected they are to the Crucible Knights…given that some of the Knights are too close to the Ancestral Followers.
Love hearing the age of mythology OST in the background. Great video!
“Skuh-leeet-tul” most bizarre way to say skeletal I have ever hear. Skel-it-tul
Is it like British or sm
@@AC-hj9tv never heard anyone British pronounce skeletal like that ever. I think it’s just him.
@@LostHorizons0 oh ok maybe it was like a fever dream or ketamine. Forget where I heard it before. Could be a false memory lol
@@AC-hj9tv yeah … it’s prob the ketemine…
11:46 the sudden croc music hit me like a truck, i love that game so much! Such a fantastic ost
always looking foward to watching your content hawk!
Love how you used the cult of the lamb music in the back ground.
Amazing video, I never thought these fellas would be important to the grand scheme of things.
Surprised you didn’t note that a lot of the Ancestral items scale with intelligence.
This notes that their connection with nature isn’t rooted solely in faith, but also intelligence.
They genuine utilization stems from their intelligence. Which I find very respectable, since INT is usually associated with greater study of the stars, and not so often nature and the earth.
This could also hint that much like sorcerers derive power from the study of their stars, the followers derive some power from their study of nature and it’d natural resources.
I love that the Ancestral Followers are basically Leyndel's version of Primitivists. It makes a lot of sense of their magical arts and the fact that they are more dressed to look like ideals of primitive peoples than in any actual utilitarian fashion.
I just hardly noticed that cult of the Lamb is playing in the background
River Boy is rather fantastic
The bgm choices were awesome.
Hawkshaw: mentions timelines
Me: heck yeah here we go
Awesome stuff, I always kinda assumed without proof that the followers were hippies choosing their lifestyle instead of the erdtree but I always thought they were just a random tribe like an artistic motif of “dark age” European tribal peoples dwelling in the ruins of Rome, I think I like your theory more!
That manscape ad was the most physically painful thing I've heard on TH-cam.
Yeah it was bad.
I've played this game for 1500+ hours. I think I can count the number of those arrows I've dodged out in the open on just my two hands.
I don't mean to be mean when I say this, but the way this man says "skeletal" made me spill my drink.
23:16 shocking truth of how Radagon become Marika is finally reviled !!!
So accurate they were removed in certain spots
“hit or miss, well I guess I never miss” -ancestral followers probably
Excellent video, I like the message it gives.
Also, I never noticed how the Ancestral Spirit took on different sounds based on which animal it was reincarnated from. Good find!
I think this topic needs to be revisited again with the dlc. Horns, spirals, etc. Do they worship the hornsent?
13:20 yeah english is hecked and Ancestral in this context means older and since they're followers it would be something more like,
Followers of the Ancestors.
Meaning they themselves dont have to be the ancestral. They just learned of them somehow and started doing what they did
Hey Hawkshaw, lovely work as always! You're one of my favourite Soulstubers and my #1 for DS1 especially. Thanks extra in this vid for the message at 5:28 regarding sensitivity to the topics of culture & gender; I value your empathy and openness.
Im ngl, the word "Horn" no longer sounds like a real word after i watched that horn segment LOL
Unlinked side thought from looking at footage of the underground... Are the broken giant trees found all through the underground relics of the crucible ie the competitor growths, one of which became the erdtree?
Correct. Just like when the Anglo-Saxons invaded Britannia, pushing out the ancient Britons and taking their land. That's the story of m@nkind in every country and every generation. The unfortunate damage caused by original sin.
@Hawkshaw, what if the Ancestral followers are remanants of the Nox who built those great structures and fled when Marika and the Erdtree came? And they eschew technology and progress as it drew them into conflict with outside forces, so they flee from the Golden Order. Since their flesh never sprouted horns, they evidently never had Omens or Misbegotten amongst their people, so they were never touched by the Crucible, all things that Humans experienced, but possibly not the Nox.
This also fits in with their affinity to the stars and the various ruins. They want horns, but have never had them. They pray to their ancestors, who have a connection to the stars, but also to death with their weapons (Nox and the focus on spirits).
Thanks!
incredible work
I’m only five minutes in but so far this is beautifully scripted. I forgot to subscribe to you after the Color Theory video, but I didn’t forget this time 😉
Love from Mongolia
🙏🏼🐎🐎🐎🇲🇳
Thank you so much for enriching the Followers!
Pretty much team Ancestral. But the fact that there wasn't much history, as you pointed out, I always felt wanting. This video was so thorough and really made me wanna stamp my feet.
I did want to comment on a particularly curious anatomical similarity (and possible correlation?) between...
Trolls, Followers, Erd Beast (specifically arms/legs/torso ratio, as I think the beast is an amalgamation), and the Ancient bearded old guy holding the stone tablet. *drops mic*
...
*picks mic back up* I mean, the Followers did develop from something/somewhere/somehow. Maybe they're Giants sans Fell God??
*redrops mic* *dodges tomato*
Just discovered this video as well as this channel when researching these mysterious beings and wow... Amazing presentation. Subbed and looking forward to watching more of your content!
Just beat these areas & ancestral Spirit bosses just got to the lake of rot tonight and completed Nokron for the second time round this time the girlfriend and i are doing a playthrough together elden ring is her first souls game and she is loving the ancestral followers and lore having just run through this all again tonight made everything remarkably vivid and fresh as could be for this video super awesome perfect coincidence then again I'm not really one for believing in coincidences.. ❤✌
i approve this content.
50:58 2.3k hours in game and I’m just now finding this out. First FS game and now I’m hooked on their titles.
The followers of all time!
I'd been wondering why I hadn't seen any recent updates to the channel. Found out I wasn't subscribed anymore this is the fourth channel I follow this has happened with recently, but I'm so glad I have a lot to catch up on !!
Why they dont miss: arrow speed railgun + homing magic arrow. Thank god for invincibility frames.
Outstanding 😮
Damn, that music at 6:28 hit my nostalgia haaaard :)
Is quicksilver not another name for mercury?
Mercury is a chemical element with the symbol Hg and atomic number 80. It is also known as quicksilver and was formerly named hydrargyrum
Pretty sure it is
Awesome sponsorship 😂😂
Best advertisement/sponsor ever
Damn... elden ring really captivated y'all. So much content
I like using there spirit ashes, they make excellent range back up and when things get close they can still handle it
wouls love to hear a follow up of your thoughts on this now we know about the hornsent and their worship of ancestral beasts
"Want to reject nature unintrusively?
Try out Manscaped."
A lack of historic evidence is not a case for a newer timeline, a big part of your argument hinges on this fact, but as you also stated they live of the land, so they would be like many societies in the real world, and would leave nothing behind but the nature that you find. I would say that this just further points to the fact that they were here first and were slowly pushed out and their culture eroded to what we see.
Hey @Hawkshaw, just doing a rewatch and I wondered if you had a theory for why the ancestral followers are congregating around the minor erdtree and avatar in eastern liurnia. If they are rejecting erdtree culture in general what is their concern with a minor erdtree?
Hawkshaw, thank you for you’re hard work, we all appreciate it. You’re an amazing, wonderful, incredible, and awesome person. ☺️😊😄😃🤩😍 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Clicked on this video faster than it takes to kill the Ancestral Spirit.
I have a feeling we will learn more about them in the DLC (unused assets and such)
Amazing video, i feel like horah loux knows something about these guys
Are you a fan of roguelike games? I swear I heard some background tracks from Hades and Cult of The Lamb! Excellent video, by the way. Edit - I just saw the entire playlist, haha.
NICE
I'd like to talk alchemy with you guys some day. There's an element polluting the Golden Order and it's why Miquella sought unalloyed Gold instead.