This is Your Brain on Fighting Games | Escaping the Corner & Win Conditions
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มี.ค. 2021
- streamed Feb. 25, 2021
This kind of a video is basically just match analysis with a focus on some specific common scenario, and how a high level player vs. a high level opponent would think about it. It's not really part of a series per se, but It seems interesting enough to title uniquely. It kind of gives a window into the kind of decision-making that goes into a high level match and an example of the kind of things you should try to think about as you're learning.
Follow Sajam on Twitter & Twitch:
/ sajam
/ sajam
/ discord
Clips Channel:
/ @sajamclips
Editing/Thumbnail by Magic Moste:
/ magicmoste
#FGC - เกม
![ไหล่อ่อน (Soft Shoulder) - Atom ชนกันต์ [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HUWl53msBQY/mqdefault.jpg)
But Sajam, using my brain is what got me into the corner in the first place.
I would like but ur at 69 likes and i use my brain
@@NashTheChill looks like a lot of people don't think like you man, unfortunate
@@litbit3658 wouldn't that only be one person? since all the other likes were given at 70 or more
Spoken like a true Leo main
@@Tarrabah you make a good point
Last time I did this, I got Heavenly Pot Bustered.
I miss jumping
Heavenly Pot Buster sounds like the name of God’s drug-sniffing dog
Heavenly Potemkin Bus Tour
Cause you didnt recognize the pot win condition that is air super lol
God demands that you be honest with your green when you enter heaven, don't hide it from him.
@@alechammond2125 pot win condition is getting you to corner. he was already dead the moment a pot with tension had him in range for all layers of his mixup
It feels important to distinguish the types of brain involved here. Your sit-and-think brain will help open doors to ideas like this, but you're going to need to bake these ideas into your intuition brain to put them into practice in a real match. And like Sajam says, that's a matter of putting yourself in the position over and over again.
Just don't think you'll be able to consciously evaluate your decision tree when you get put in the corner. When you know what you're doing, the ideas and execution will happen before you even get an opportunity to acknowledge them.
Exactly this; knowing what to do and being able to do A) The right move for a specific situation and B) Doing it under pressure are very different things. Combine this with the fact that in order to know whether it's the right move you have to be considering your opponent's options and playstyle and it just gets harder.
But as Papa says, you've just got to break it down into its requisite parts; reading the opponent, understanding their next move... this can change from match to match, so it's hard to 'pre-load' this information aside from character win cons.
On the other hand, the ability to do mechanics on demand can and SHOULD be something that requires little to no thought. The second you realise you need to dash block and then dash poke challenge, your body needs to be in motion, which naturally means you can't be thinking about it in the moment.
Things like dash guard, timing your counter-poke or neutral jumping immediately can seem like incredibly simple options, most of them require very few inputs, but being able to choose them from a nearly infinite list of potential options at the exact moment they become relevant takes practise. And sure, you can think about these on a match by match basis, but then say goodbye to your 'intuition'; faster players will eat you alive.
As someone who started off purely on intuition and struggles to slow down enough to let my 'sit and think' brain work, this also applies in reverse; if you mostly play based on instinct and 'gut feelings' then this will all sound fairly silly... 90% of your play is done at the speed of thought, but then you run into the opposite problem: not giving your brain the time to analyse which move is the RIGHT one.
Finding that balance is the key to jumping up a level, it just took me an incredibly long time to realise.
This is essentially that diagram of the mental stack compressing with experience. To improve, you need to do the sit and think so that when you are in the match, it's "jump? cr.hp", not "oh god what do I do uhh I guess anti-air? But which button???"
I feel like if I could learn to think like this, in real-time, while playing... I'd have opened my third eye. My chakras would be opened and my chi flowing unhindered.
...Anyway back to my silver rank SFV matches. Gotta quit missing my anti-airs.
No one processes stuff like this in actual matches, people think about it after and outside of matches and eventually you subconsciously remember what decisions are good and what gets you killed.
5:00 Sajam, the Potion Seller
Underrated comment
This stuff is straight out of like some anime where the characters stop, and think real time for like 30 secs, and somehow some attack is coming at them full speed.
I don't know if I am aware while I am doing this stuff, however I do use mind games, or baits or instinctfully react to things, but I guess I am the type of player that forcefully nails muscle memory into my brain when I play, but just spamming games.
watching character guides about other character speeds this up. in 10-20 minutes they told you everything good and bad about a character and the tactic they use to win
What?
@@BoostedBonobo101 watching character guides can give you helpful insight on what a character is strong at and what a character is weak at
reading comprehension
@@animeprofilepicture8855 what?
Playing characters without a free dp has made me really good at dealing with corner pressure that sometimes i just back dash into it
Thanks for making this! I was trying to wrap my head around win conditions in 2D fighters a few weeks ago, but couldn't think of any examples (namely due to my lack of experience) and so was having a hard time. I came to the conclusion that, in extreme generics, a player is looking to 1) get their gimmick on lock, 2) put the opponent in the corner, or 3) put the opponent in knockdown. It's been fun fleshing these categories out with matchup knowledge as my friends and I learn +R. Your example leaving the corner here is super specific, I'm definitely going to try and work this is when we play later today/tomorrow. Thanks again!
I love this style of video, letting us into the mind of a player. It really helps to figure out how to approach any game as any character and gives us something to work on and think about both inside and outside a match.
A video like this is literally what got me into fighting games. I was like, there _has_ to be some strategy to fighting games, I know people play tournaments and stuff. So I searched "fighting game match analysis", and I got a sick jmcrofts video breaking down a Daigo game. Boom, I'm hooked
As someone who mainly plays card games competitively, this makes a lot of sense looking at it as turns and responses. Going to have to try this out!
3d games take it even farther, everything takes a turn - pokes, lows, mids, defense, movement, everything. Act out of turn and you get blown up. Last time I played a GG game it seemed like my opponent's turn started at "Duel 1, FIGHT!" and ended when I died.
Sajam reacts to "Sajam's greatest hits"
Bruh i was deadass just playin some games where I got stuck in the corner for like 5 years this is so helpful thanks bru
This is EXACTLY what I need thank you more please
Jiyuna looks a little pale today, is he doing okay?
I'm glad he finally took that Christmas tree down.
@@TheHinni1234 wasnt that a st. Patricks day tree?
if jiyuna looks pale it's probably just the clown makeup
@@asmartphoneinquarantine3269 I think its just a "insert current holiday here" tree.
Win conditions are often why taking the throw in Street Fighter V is the best option. Often a win condition is getting a max damage combo from getting a shimmy into a v-trigger combo on your opponent. Getting thrown and send back to neutral is often much better then that
When becoming a TCG gamer gives you the advantage.
Draw, go.
I know it's asking a lot but I hope that commentary during tournament gets to where most people have the ability to draw on the instant replays like that (a la most sports, nfl and nba etc). Super helpful for understanding.
Best part of fighters is assuming your opponent is thinking on the same level you are lol.
Yeah that is why it is usually harder to play against low lever players, they throw random stuff constantly out of nowhere, and you have to adapt ASAP to wait and punish, then sometimes they are really better and when see you can punish them they stop doing it and play differently so you are now thrown off worse than before lol
telling whether your opponent is thinking or not is also a skill. i Wouldn't know but thats what ive been told ( ´∀｀)
I forget who said it or the exact phrase but this reminds me of the phrase “The greatest sword fighter doesn’t fear fighting the second best sword fighter, but the worst.”
This is what I need, thanks. Any more resources where they teach how and what to think in a fighting game? I'm new to fighting games and I play mostly on reaction and feel, but I want to get more into this thinking stuff.
Watch match analysis of high level/pro matches. Usually people explain what is going on. It's more common than videos specifically talking about fighting game tactics.
@@charliericker274 Thank you!
Really love analysis like this!
Love these series of videos!
Thanks, was looking forward to this video
Coming into this game from UNI, it was so weird having to rewire my brain during the beta. "Wait, my f.S leads to less damage than a throw?" I think it's going to be a while before I understand how to position myself for the high rewards/what the win conditions for my new character actually are.
Yeah GG is in the a strange position where it's hard to get into for SF/KoF players because of too many options, but also hard for BB/UNI players because of too few options.
@@Stroggoii what’s BB and UNI
@@hasanalharaz7454 BlazBlue and Under Night In-Birth
One of the best videos you’ve made in a while
Didn't get much play time in the strive beta but superjump airdash over helped me get out of a lot of shit in XRD. Great video.
Sajam keep making vids like this, it's easier than ME making vids like this to send to people as "This is what I've been talking about dude"
The Sajam content is GREAT!!!
That neutral jump is a great idea
Damn, I can't believe sajam clips is based on a real guy
Jiyuna
This made something click in my brain.
Nice analysis!
Sajam is a bro, love this dude
im down bad bro, once i get into the corner its usually around a 2 month delay until i can get back out
I love fighting games for the hyperspeed chess that every situation plays out as. It's sad that it's becoming a really niche genre.
First you do a tier list video and now we get a reaction video? smh
jk
brew what u expecting from jiyuna
this is a great video
I guess this works in guilty gear
But in a game like granblue when you're in the corner, if you get git a single button. You eat the full combo assuming they hit confirm. So how do you approach that like every thing is a win condition for your opponent.
2:45 the secret technique
Thats why im scrub. Id never think in so many options. As a urien player , my option are: standing strong punch or ex headbutt.
How could you forget *random EX tackle*
Being a scrub isn't about your level of play, its a mindset.
Am I getting pushed to the corner?
Or am I getting in position to perform offensive back dashes?
:-)
4:13 sol , is me fk it im gonna sleep till june 11
Jiyuna giving us some knowledge
Lol dude Sajam is the one talking. Jiyuna is in the left corner in the video
This video earned you a Subscribe from me, sir. This was brilliant.
This all sounds nice until Sol has you in the corner and you try to make him think only to eat the bandit bringer he threw out because it looks cool
Did the new Kof has rollbacknetcode?
damn sajam's brain is actually wrinkly as af
Maaaan ! This is such a good video !
Out of the 3 fighting game player archetypes (Heart, Brain and Body) i am definitively mostly in the Body (technique/execution) and Heart (reads/react, play by feel) much more than Brain (strategize/plan ahead) and when i see a video like this it makes me want to really stop and think. I will try my best to check my replays and do this kind of analysis more in Strive compared to what i have done before because i most certainly mindlessly approach and guess what will happen from experience most of the time. At my level this is usually quite sufficient, but this next level type galaxy brain plays is what i need to do to elevate myself a bit. Keep up the good work Sajam.
Tibazz
I've dropped fighting games in order to pursue my dream job, why I'm still watching your content??? One does not unfollow Sajam it seems...
May players: what is wall? I only airdash
Does anyone know Sajam’s outro theme
Damn. Sajam playing blue in the corner and spent no mana
the goddamn 5d chess
Ky has pretty good meterless damage on the ground with his 6h which wall bounces and can cancel from his cl.s.
But then he has to get into Sol's optimum range. c.S is best landed after a jump in or a knockdown, otherwise you are just greedy and can get punished. I'm not too sure what Ky's 6H is off the top of my head, but most 6Hs are pretty high commitment. If it works, it works well and leads into crazy damage and such, but it can also get you into a lot of trouble if it whiffs (like if he just jumps over it).
Running in and doing a meaty c.S is definitely good, but still pretty risky against Sol as Ky I think. I think keeping his range was the better option in this particular case. I agree with Sajam's analysis.
@@GriFFonRec4 Ky's 6h itself can be canceled into specials (beta at least) so you can make it safe by canceling into foudre arc which safe or plus if the opponent has shock state.
Ky's 6h was a pretty good button so I was surprised no one was using it.
@@CrowsofAcheron You have to hit with it though, cannot special cancel if you whiff. Off a c.S it's likely good, but depending on your philosophy, maybe it's not worth going into meaty c.S>6H>foudre if now it's Sol's turn and you are closer to him. Poking him and waiting for him to make a mistake is probably a better long term plan, though I'm not a Ky player. Having the corner is great, you don't have to smash them through the wall immediately, they cannot retreat, and if they make a big mistake they take 40% and you get positive bonus. That said, you don't really have to risk it either. I personally think KV played it smart.
Oh and to my knowledge literally ANY normal can be special canceled. It's not really a matter of it being a beta, that seems to be a core design philosophy. Not all normals cancel into each other, more notably the P and K normals, but every normal cancels into specials, to my knowledge.
@@GriFFonRec4 There are a bunch of command normals which are not special cancelable, such as Ky's 6k and Sol's 6h. Command normals in GG tend to be character unique.
You said that KV played it smart, but he basically just let Sajam out of the corner after standing in far slash range for like 3 seconds.
My initial point was that Ky doesn't need to anti-air to do good damage in Strive. This assumption is a holdover from Xrd, in which Ky could do huge damage from anti-airs, but not from any other situation without meter.
So much thinking that happens over 10 seconds of gameplay sheesh
so basically you just need to consider 70,000 possibilities in a tenth of a second, got it. very fair for the defender, i can see why people play fighting games
I get knocked down.
Charged stun edge.
Life is miserable.
Brian_F's 2nd channel
Yo Sajam. Check the new beta for +R. The replay functions are next level.
You're vastly overestimating the amount of brain power I put into playing competitive games Sajam. I don't even use my brain in Diamond/Platinum Halo and Siege matches; I just roam around and click on heads until my team wins or we lose.
Sometimes I accidentally walk over this flag thing and gotta carry that back to my team's side of the map too, but that only requires me to recognize colors.
yeah thats halo and siege literal point and click adventures
@@animeprofilepicture8855
I mean, I'm slightly oversimplifying it. Because they do get deeper than that, but those kinds of tactics and thinking require an actual team, and since I play SoloQ it doesn't really work.
Sure I could TRY the more effective and complicated strats and tactics with like Thermite, Capitao, Ace ETC....but that relies on my teammates. Or I could just pick Maverick, Ying, Lion etc. and Unga-Bunga my way through with just enough utility to actually help out if it turns out the other apes on my team have brains.
idk Sajam...this is a bit too much thinking for me
jk ill try and learn, sadly
so what is viper supposed to do? he's being taking advantage of because he's paying attention. how do you work pass that?
Identify a situation, feel out what your opponent likes to do, try to predict and counter that play. Now it's mind games.
My only regret in catching this video as it went up is that I won't be able to see what the netcode apologists and WiFi warriors will aim their faux-indignation at today.
You assume we think while playing
I really hope they nerf Nitro Coldbrew Vortex in the final game, that move is busted.
I wish I could afford a PS5 to play this game. Does anyone know if it'll run on a PC w/ a Ryzen 5 core + ryzen iGPU (which I've heard is good as far as iGPUs go)?
Only doable because meterless oki has been thankfully been reduced from the game.
So......................you're saying unga-bunga?
you're playing sol, why are you using your brain?
Cant wait for the entire defensive meta in strive to revolve around super low risk airblocking. Its so stupid that only airthrows and lows during prejump frames beat it