I remember hearing someone say that Kirby was probably one of the first characters developed for Melee, and he became a victim of power creep as more characters were added, and I think it makes sense
If that’s true, that… actually would explain a lot. Not fundamentally broken stuff like mashable throws and the stupidly weak aerial hammer, but why he’s so weak in general. Did this person have a source?
It also makes sense for Bowser, considering his popularity and fan polls wanting him in the game, I could see them starting work on him early in the process.
I love the story behind the thumbnails. In the previous video about the worst character in Melee we have Bowser picking up a flower, and on this one we see that he's giving it to Kirby, the other worst character.
The biggest advantage of playing Kirby is that every stock you somehow manage to take inches your opponent one step closer to having a stroke, which by extreme technicality counts as a win.
2:56 Ive seen this clip 20+ times and I just realized Zain picks up his controller for him. That's really great sportsmanship in a moment where most could argue he didn't really need too. Good on Zain.
Don't think most people can say they'd act like that after losing a big set and the winner is screaming behind them. Not that I blame Hbox either but like, damn dude
@@retronymph Nah I do blame Hbox lmao. Screaming and jumping up like that makes sense when you're on a massive stage with hundreds of people watching and cheering, not when you're in a little room with like 6 other people, none of whom even reacted when you won lmao. He could've at LEAST shook Zain's hand before freaking out but nope. Shitty sportsmanship, zero manners, but very typical for him so.
Fun fact: in Ultimate, where Kirby gets his Melee dash attack back (with some buffs), an in-game tip EXPLICITLY mentions that Kirby's dash attack WILL NOT go off ledges (which it won't), a nod to how it used to do this in Melee.
As someone who doesn't play Melee I was thrown off when he just fell off the stage mid-attack. Does any other dash attack in the series do that? It just looks so wrong lol.
@@TheLobsterCopter5000 While it potentially is a nod to Melee, there's also the fact that it's a dash attack where the user is airborne, so the natural assumption is that you *would* fall off ledge using it.
Does anyone know if any brawl dash attacks do this? In PM/P+, DK's dash attack goes off ledges and, unlike kirby's, it's actually not bad and you can do get some crazy followup afterwards.
Fun fact: I believe in an interview Sakurai said that Kirby being your first character in WoL isn't (entirely) bias. He said it's cause Kirby's one of the 3 characters Sakurai thinks could canonically survive Galeem's attack. The other two being Palutena and Bayo. He chose Kirby from those three because he's the most beginner friendly. (Tho it could totally still be bias lol)
Its probably a bit of bias and the fact that Kirby is a little bit easier to play. Personally I think Palutena and Bayonetta should of been characters that can be playable at the beginning as well.
@@liammclin5722 which makes sense i know Palutena is a Goddess but not much outside of that. Bayonetta has also killed a resurrected God in the first game and another God in the second.
Fun fact: If Kirby's up smash collides with a sword attack, you'll hear the same "TING" sound effect that plays when two blades collide. This also happens with Mewtwo's tail.
I've seen 3:03 many times, but I never noticed that Zain picked up hbox's controller and gently laid it on the chair. That's kind of beautiful to be honest.
As has been said before by a big yellow TH-camr, Kirby in Melee is like eating a bowl of Lucky Charms with water. None of it is good, but some of it is a bit less bad.
Absolutely. My favorite creators are the ones who work hard on their videos for a long time. Their videos are almost always better, and AsumSaus is no exception.
Well haging accurate hitboxes is really only an issue cuz hes a tiny ball with no limbs, so hitboxes arent going to be his strength anyway. But since everything about him otherwise is also shit hes just fucked
A true fan of the game right there. I play Bowser on Slippi (on days where everyone isn't quitting the moment they see Bowser) just to try and move as nicely as possible to make Bowser look as smooth as possible. Mostly just a lot of edge-cancelled aerials and wave movement, especially wavelands since his jump-squat takes like 2 minutes.
I remember being actually pissed that Kirby was so bad even as a kid. I tried so hard to use him anyways because I loved him. Least he's really fun in Ultimate.
Hah! You're a disgrace! I managed to beat Very Hard for each mode and also Showdown (in 2 minutes)!, IM THE BEST KIRBY PLAYER IN THE WORLD I just don't have the resources to enter any contest right now, not even a PC to connect to some private match
Bad on paper good in practice, it lets him do an aerial shorthop at any time and its goot as a mixup advancing option as the slow hitbox throws a looot of people off. People dont know how to handle it man, and it can do like 15% before a followup
I do too, since smash 64 the only game i played for the smash series i always have him as my main and he´s also my favourite video game charecter... its a shame he was the worst on melee with bowser. but he became decent in the other smash games and he was soo goodand Op in smash 64.
I started playing melee semi-casually a few weeks ago and always wondered why Kirby was ranked as such an incredibly bad character, because he didn't *feel* terrible when trying him out while I was figuring out which character I liked the most, so it makes sense that it seems to be mostly that his toolkit overall is just very weak when compared to other characters instead of it just being a melee moment™. Fantastic video as always. Your channel is a huge inspiration to me :]
Yeah two moments really hammered home why Kirby can seem okay at first but be so crap: Puff vs Kirby jumps: pound and airspeed completely solve horizontal recovery. That difference is massive. The joking "flowchart" moments where it's like "okay, grab leads into something if you read it and don't do a non functional throw. Up tilt into --> single aerial is your best punish" makes it really stark. As a beginner you're mostly stringing together random hits out of neutral. Every other character eventually links those hits together into a strategy. Kirby just kinda has to win neutral 100 times
Tangentially related: I was a Zelda main growing up and even casual players would ask why I didn't play Sheik. I said that Sheik was easier to pickup because of her speed, but as you got better and learned how to use Zelda's kit, Zelda was actually the better character. I was... incorrect in my assessment
@@sdw-hv5ko Weird, as a kid growing up, we gravitated towards Zelda > Sheik because her smash attacks are strong and we gravitated towards strong smash attacks. Nobody really knew how to kill with Sheik, nor could we make use of her other features.
I don't even play Smash Bros in any capacity and I've accidentally, truly accidentally, watched every single one of your videos. The way you present information pulls the viewer right in. You've trimmed all the fat and inserted just the right amount of humor. Bravo. I need more of this.
@@TrueTrickster2016 My guy Kirby literally destroys anyone in the entire Smash cast (not just Melee) based on his canonical power, only like Pyra/Mythra and Sora have a legitimate chane of beating him, so yeah he is indeed holding back
I love the idea that Kirby, a being that kills demons straight from hell on a weekly basis and literally survived the extinction of the end of a universe, sucks at hand-to-hand combat. Guess nobody has destroyed his cake yet.
@@n.andkirby in 64, he simply saw everything as a competition and did not hold back. But in Melee and other subsequent games, he’s grown to see the other smashes as friends and thus takes it easier on them
I like to think (despite validity) that Kirby is bad in Melee because he's too... normal. Many hitboxes are more realistic, and many of the better characters rely on some sort of exploit or mistake in the design. This may be an excuse, but especially with how fun he is, that's just fine with me. Edit: Another comment mentioned he may have been designed earlier than the others, and that could pair with this. They had a style, but concepts changed as the rest of the game developed. (again, more breaks and such as well)
Save for his throws, Kirby's kit in general is just underwhelming, there is no fatal flaw that ruins the character, nor a certified "melee moment™" in him, he is just plain Bad in everything
No he's just bad, even if he hits with this mediocre hit boxes he does no damage, has good but very gimpable recovery, one of the worst dash dances in the game etc, only one or two characters rely on something that isn't baked into the engine to be good
Your videos are always something I look forward to :) I'm not even a Melee player, I only played Ultimate for ~1 year Thanks for this amazing content!!
I just realized the thumbnail tells a little story. In a different video, bowser is shown picking flowers. In this one, he's shown giving the flowers to Kirby. What a nice fella.
'Welcome to the Salty Splatoon! How tough are ya?' 'I have climbed to the very top of a Melee tournament without a high tier' 'I see... Who is your main?' 'Kirby' 'Dear God, Errmm... Right this way you madman...'
Maybe his brain was pregnant because that’s the womb where Kirby was. Sakurai’s hand was the father for drawing him, and his brain is the mother for birthing him.
To wall out Fox: Expertly maneuver yourself into a position just out of range of most of Fox's moves, while also maintaining range of your moves. To wall out Kirby: Press the L button.
@@x9x9x9x9x9 i tried but its not my type of fighting game. I am very big into the Slowclap game Absolver and considered making a similar video like Asum does with Meele about all the broken moves in that game (for example there are like 10-12 moves in the game that have incorrect framedata)
Another few things about Kirby 1. His forward, back and up throw lose all his jumps 2. His inhale hitbox gets smaller midair compared to grounded inhale 3. There's a cool absolutely useless tech with dash attack, if you dash attack right before running off a platform, you can cancel dash attack's animation with a grab
If you really want to main an awful character -and surprise people when you rekt them because they don't know the match up,- you should use male wireframe instead.
Sadly, the "play a bad character so people don't know the matchup" niche is the personal property of Zelda, because Zelda can take a cheeky stock here and there... and then switch to a character who is actually good.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 that was probably the wrong thing to say. Anyone who's knows captain falcon's match knows what male wireframe's deal is (either then he's much worse)
Here are some more fun useful facts about Kirby that makes him even more.... Shit. Kirby's ub-b when used consumes all of his jumps, even if he has used only one! So if he gets hit once, even on the startup, he's dead no matter what. The same thing applies with his up throw! And it is why a lot of players only go for up throw at low percents, since it MAY lead to a tech chase on a platform, IF your opponent is drunk, or really slow. However, it can be used to Kirbycide that cannot be escaped out of.... if you roll to the back of ledge and your opponent somehow doesn't see it coming. Kirby's down throw sends at such a bad angle, Marth can immediately up-b out of it to prevent being tech chased. Not only can Marth up-b out, but puff can actually REST. Meaning if you grab puff and they know about it, they can immediately kill you with rest at 13%. Kirby rock can actually slide along ledges and is pretty funny to use on Yoshi's if someone is recovering along the side and you want to have a good chuckle. Kirby's dash attack when caped by Doc or Mario actually slide backwards, so he does his own version of the flaming moonwalk. Kirby's biggest claim to fame is the fact that his spotdodge is the fastest in the cast. Meaning when you see Kirby's just spotdodge like crazy, they're just using the only thing that makes Kirby.... Kirby. I've mained Kirby for a long time, and appreciate you reading this! :) I'd love to see if there is anything else not so commonly known about Kirby!
@@seronymus Honestly, when I started playing Melee 8 years ago, I was a Marth main and I could never beat this Shiek main. So I switched to Kirby and just had fun :)
I heard that for Ultimate, Sakurai chose Kirby for the WoL campaign starting character because of the characters that could feasibly escape Galeem(Palutena, Bayonetta, Kirby...) Kirby was the most beginner friendly.
No one really talks about Kirby in Melee. It's so underwhelming, but in a boring way. It doesn't have a glaring flaw, but just has no upside. Even other low tier characters have something they do best out of all the entire cast. Kirby has nothing.
When Melee first came out, I had been a Kirby player in OG Smash. Coming into the game I obviously picked Kirby first, and *immediately* felt the difference. For decades I have lived with the assumption that Sakurai nerfed Kirby into the ground because of how dominant he had been in OG, and this video only solidifies that belief.
the delivery on "so abysmally shit" genuinely had me spit my food, definitely was NOT trying to, you are wonderful and spread so much unspeakable joy into so many people's world
@@webbowser8834 “Perfectly playable” Eh. Definitely nowhere near as bad as Melee but like… eh. He just struggles against so much of the roster that he just doesn’t feel fun to play. I’d been playing as him competitively since the beginning of Smash 4 but dropped him a few months ago in favor of Dark Pit because I dread fighting about 70% of the roster as Kirby. He gets steamrolled by speed demons, walled out by swordies and zoners, and deleted in three hits by heavies since they tend to outrange him. He’s got decent CQC but struggles to make use of it and he’s the got the low weight of a lot of high/top tiers but very little of the power and none of the speed that usually accompanies it.
Even at a different points during subspace, each of the Kirby characters have very important roles. Kirby escorts one of the princesses and helps save everyone in the maze, dedede is a main point of conflict for all of the cartoony characters (along with having the brooches), and meta knight literally drives the story forward by having his ship introduce the first subspace bomb and primids, as well as being a meeting point for all of the characters later on
Sakurai decided after Kirby being a high tier in 64, he needed to screw him over in melee. Truly an act of tough love, to teach him how to lose gracefully
triple R has beat Kels several times with Kirby and other prominent midwest players which is for sure a bigger accomplishment than beating Blur/drunk armada
True! Though it seems accidental, it always feels like Kirby in every subsequent smash game was an overcorrection for being one of the most broken characters in 64. Despite everything, he’s still fun and funny to play though!
@@maskeraider If Sakurai didn't care about looking biased or if someone else developed Smash as the leader, I'm sure Kirby would be better. Start by giving him a new moveset that represents his series better. I hope that the next smash is a reboot.
I love how people always say Kirby needs a moveset that represents his series "better"... I agree that he needs a better moveset, but outside of his Smash Attacks and Tilts...his series is pretty well represented in his moveset. There's a lot of room for improvement and just more creative abilities.
Kirby's dash attack isn't actually ALL bad. There's a really goofy little tech you can do with it where if you dash attack off of the edge of a platform, you can cancel it into a grab once you touch the ground. Look up "kirby dash attack cancel" if you want to see it ^^
Couple of “fun” Kirby facts. If you use dash attack as soon as you leave a platform and land on stage while holding Z, you will immediately perform a grab when the active frames end. Kirby’s down-b will not slide on the top left platform of Kongo Jungle 64. It will slide on the right platform and the bottom stage ramps, however. This fact was used by Triple R to defeat BunBun (another Kirby main) in a long ago Kirby ditto.
Fun Fact: Sakurai actually considered Palutena or Bayonetta to be the surviving character in World of Light, but Kirby was ultimately (hah) chosen because not only does he canonically fight god-like entities, but he also just happens to be the perfect tutorial character.
I remember dominating with Kirby in the video game club back in middle school not knowing he was a bottom tier character. I just always thought he was a cute little guy.
I have never played Melee in my entire life and most likely will never do that in the future, but your videos are just made so fucking well, and the way you present them (editing, sound design) is just very fun to look at, and even as someone who cant really get any use of the information youre telling, its still very interesting.
I love how the thumbnail shows Bowser holding flowers to Kirby, representing he is also the worst character, trying to make friends with the other worst character.
10:23 oh please keep going, it gets worse If you get hit out of Kirby's up-b, you lose all your jumps - you can actually see it in the clip shown for this too, he should've had 5 jumps left but doesn't recover to ledge bc he lost them getting hit out of up-b
That's not necessarily exclusive to Kirby, though. With Jigglypuff, Yoshi and his exception, everyone loses their double jump as soon as they Up-B (also true for a few other specials). HOWEVER Kirby only loses his jumps if he gets hit out of the uppercut portion onward of Up-B!
I got absolutely blown away at 2:06 at hearing a track from Futarino Fantavision. The soundtrack for that game is fenomenal. The gameplay, however, isn't that super, but still fun from time to time. I remember playing it's multiplayer with my girlfriend a few years back at new years eve, and it was actually really fun! Might even recommend the game for just a NYE game with friends. It's also really cheap, as I got it for €1,99 from my local gamestore.
I have a vivid memory of playing a demo version of melee on a display cabinet outside of Babbage's a bit before it came out. My older brother and I picked our smash 64 mains, Samus and Kirby respectively. I lost, and remember feeling like I just couldn't accomplish anything for some reason. Even at the age of 10, with no understanding of frame data, neutral, or really anything approaching fighting game fundamentals, I could still tell that melee Kirby was trash.
I just learned like last week that when Kirby up B's, regardless of how many jumps he had left he loses them all. They really went out of their way to just make him almost unplayable
I main kirby in ssbu, mainly because I just really like him. but i also think it's because I want to prove something, like yes his hitboxes are short, yes he's slow, yes he's not the best, but I'm still wining with him. Even if it takes a while. And something about beating some bahemoth with this tiny little pink marshmallow is really satisfying.
the amount of times my friends who barely have played melee have kirby ledge cheesed me to victory, I have to say this is categorically false information
Everyone says that Kirby only survived because it was Sakurai’s character when, canonically, the Warp Star can travel around Popstar 2 times in around 5 seconds
This is why I consider melee to be a fun fighting game, but not a good smash game. When I think of Smash, I think of a wide cast of characters. But even as kids, my friends and I naturally found the best characters in the game. We talking 11 year olds before any of us had internet access. The moment Brawl came out, we never went back to Melee because characters that were just awful (now finding out they were broken all along) were finally useable.
Videos like these make me pray for the day humanity comes to their senses and realize it’s time for Melee to get an official remake. The showerless can disagree but it needed to be said.
Really good video and a very informative one at that. I love the placement of some of the sound effects as well, it made some parts of the video really funny.
I remember hearing someone say that Kirby was probably one of the first characters developed for Melee, and he became a victim of power creep as more characters were added, and I think it makes sense
imagine a melee where every character is as strong as kirby
If that’s true, that… actually would explain a lot. Not fundamentally broken stuff like mashable throws and the stupidly weak aerial hammer, but why he’s so weak in general.
Did this person have a source?
It also makes sense for Bowser, considering his popularity and fan polls wanting him in the game, I could see them starting work on him early in the process.
It makes me wonder when he was actually developed because we can tell this through the debug mode melee has
@@FedoraKirb
I love the story behind the thumbnails. In the previous video about the worst character in Melee we have Bowser picking up a flower, and on this one we see that he's giving it to Kirby, the other worst character.
that's so cute!!!
That's so wholesome
The hidden lore
thats some Yugioh card type shit
Good thing I wasn't the only 1
The biggest advantage of playing Kirby is that every stock you somehow manage to take inches your opponent one step closer to having a stroke, which by extreme technicality counts as a win.
Kirby wins! Fatality!
This is called a "Medical Forfeit".
@@calook1334 see I'd call it "the medical skill issue" but that works too lmao
I like tater tots
@@Lilpepaa ai liek toter tats
2:56 Ive seen this clip 20+ times and I just realized Zain picks up his controller for him. That's really great sportsmanship in a moment where most could argue he didn't really need too. Good on Zain.
From what I've seen Zain seems to be an incredibly sweet guy.
It's the little things. What a bro.
Don't think most people can say they'd act like that after losing a big set and the winner is screaming behind them. Not that I blame Hbox either but like, damn dude
@@retronymph Nah I do blame Hbox lmao. Screaming and jumping up like that makes sense when you're on a massive stage with hundreds of people watching and cheering, not when you're in a little room with like 6 other people, none of whom even reacted when you won lmao. He could've at LEAST shook Zain's hand before freaking out but nope. Shitty sportsmanship, zero manners, but very typical for him so.
@@jessicastjames6202 Bro hes just hyped
Fun fact: in Ultimate, where Kirby gets his Melee dash attack back (with some buffs), an in-game tip EXPLICITLY mentions that Kirby's dash attack WILL NOT go off ledges (which it won't), a nod to how it used to do this in Melee.
As someone who doesn't play Melee I was thrown off when he just fell off the stage mid-attack. Does any other dash attack in the series do that? It just looks so wrong lol.
@@gregoryford2532 Literally no other dash attack in the game has this pointed out for it. You'd know that if you had basic inference skills.
@@gregoryford2532 sad dum dum moment
@@TheLobsterCopter5000 While it potentially is a nod to Melee, there's also the fact that it's a dash attack where the user is airborne, so the natural assumption is that you *would* fall off ledge using it.
Does anyone know if any brawl dash attacks do this? In PM/P+, DK's dash attack goes off ledges and, unlike kirby's, it's actually not bad and you can do get some crazy followup afterwards.
Fun fact: I believe in an interview Sakurai said that Kirby being your first character in WoL isn't (entirely) bias. He said it's cause Kirby's one of the 3 characters Sakurai thinks could canonically survive Galeem's attack. The other two being Palutena and Bayo. He chose Kirby from those three because he's the most beginner friendly. (Tho it could totally still be bias lol)
Its probably a bit of bias and the fact that Kirby is a little bit easier to play. Personally I think Palutena and Bayonetta should of been characters that can be playable at the beginning as well.
smash lore lol
Well I mean Kirby is a god slaying Eldritch monstrosity so uh
@@liammclin5722 which makes sense i know Palutena is a Goddess but not much outside of that. Bayonetta has also killed a resurrected God in the first game and another God in the second.
Honestly, Shulk would have a better chance than Palutena. Palu loses a straight fight with Pit for a start.
Seriously who thought Kirby’s b-throw should remove all of his jumps and both b-throw and f-throw can just be jumped out of at any time?
Up throw removes your jumps as well, so his really only viable throw is down throw 💀
One of the handsome Japanese men presented in the video I'd reckon
If you up-throw at ledge you can do a suicide kill, but it also removes your jumps, so sometimes it's just suicide.
I believe that the intention was to make it so you can’t suicide kills, but you can jump out way earlier than needed
The same company that thought port priority was good.
Fun fact: If Kirby's up smash collides with a sword attack, you'll hear the same "TING" sound effect that plays when two blades collide. This also happens with Mewtwo's tail.
so that's why we have never seen his feet, they are actually just knifes! that makes sense
kirby has a sword in his shoe he’s cheating
@kizrgd of all swords he has the wii u buster sword ??
Kirby must be british
Kirby has feet swords?
I've seen 3:03 many times, but I never noticed that Zain picked up hbox's controller and gently laid it on the chair. That's kind of beautiful to be honest.
What a nice guy
And now he’s number 1 in the world
lol this is the first thing i noticed when watching the clip
Even if Kirby is a bad character, the Kirby mains are literal gods, beating you to death in 50 different ways with a bottom tier character.
Finally someone who can prove this guy wrong!
Thank you very much
Kirby has a big advantage, adaptability! A good player will take sheer advantage of that!
Triple R in his prime was absolutely terrifying
In ultimate he’s D tier but he’s like EASY to main
As has been said before by a big yellow TH-camr, Kirby in Melee is like eating a bowl of Lucky Charms with water. None of it is good, but some of it is a bit less bad.
A yes da goat
I'd love a collab between these two.
I love seeing a bunch of Big Yellow quotes on random videos
What is their name
Glad to see some Big Yellow recognition. They're kinda GOATed with the sauce ngl
There really is nothing else like your editing, comedy, and line delivery. It’s always a gift seeing you upload. Keep up the fantastic work man.
Yeah, 1/2 the reason I've subbed is because the information he presents is shown with more style than the summation of my entire life.
Absolutely. My favorite creators are the ones who work hard on their videos for a long time. Their videos are almost always better, and AsumSaus is no exception.
I just said something like this to myself as soon as the video ended. There's no one like AsumSaus, nor there will be.
theres Shounic but thats not smash
@Don't Read My Profile Photo bruh i am seeing you everwhere, so are you spying on me?!?!?
A decade later and I'm still catching strays LMAO
Good vid as always AsumSaus
feels bad man
You'll learn the matchup in the future. I believe in the prime blur adaptation
1000th like
MY MANS YOU OLD.
Bro
"half conscious, piss-drunk Armada"
💀💀💀
☠️☠️
Man I remember being Kirby at first in melee as a kid, landing so many dash attacks and never managing to win. It does blow so hard.
Honestly for the hitboxes it seems like kirbys issue was actually having accurate hitboxes. Shoulda known that wouldn't fly in melee
Someone had to take one for the team and get all the normal hitboxes so everyone else could get all that sweet sweet melee jank
Well it’s a good think Wii for didn’t exist during melee
Her hit boxes are way too accurate to her model
@@jmurray1110 her?
@@ABC-ik9vj Default wii fit is female and basically no one plays male
Well haging accurate hitboxes is really only an issue cuz hes a tiny ball with no limbs, so hitboxes arent going to be his strength anyway. But since everything about him otherwise is also shit hes just fucked
You know what isn't bottom tier? Your editing. Immaculate and clean, on point and clear. Good job, it's always a pleasure when you upload.
glazin'
@@GianEditss glazin glizzy
I only played as Kirby in Melee for two reasons.
1. Camp and spam his taunt
2. Inhale and jump off the edge, spit out and float back to safety.
now this is a giga chad playstyle I can get behind
i think youd be good friends with chudat lol
You wouldn't happen to play Slippi, would you?
A true fan of the game right there. I play Bowser on Slippi (on days where everyone isn't quitting the moment they see Bowser) just to try and move as nicely as possible to make Bowser look as smooth as possible. Mostly just a lot of edge-cancelled aerials and wave movement, especially wavelands since his jump-squat takes like 2 minutes.
Haiiiiiii
I remember being actually pissed that Kirby was so bad even as a kid. I tried so hard to use him anyways because I loved him.
Least he's really fun in Ultimate.
Have you watched Guilheew, that player pilots kirby like a god
Hah! You're a disgrace!
I managed to beat Very Hard for each mode and also Showdown (in 2 minutes)!, IM THE BEST KIRBY PLAYER IN THE WORLD
I just don't have the resources to enter any contest right now, not even a PC to connect to some private match
I love how bowser is handing Kirby a flower which references bowser picking a flower in the other thumbnail.
His aerial Side-b is actually so bad
ok
It is one of those moves that you ask "what was the point of this? What is it trying to do?"
Is your house big? Is your car nice?
Bad on paper good in practice, it lets him do an aerial shorthop at any time and its goot as a mixup advancing option as the slow hitbox throws a looot of people off. People dont know how to handle it man, and it can do like 15% before a followup
What a surprise to see you here Mr. Attenborough of PS Speedrunning.
I play Kirby because I resonate with him on a spiritual level and no amount of developer oversight can take that away from me
Love that for you king 👑
So you both literally suck?
same hes my main on smash 4 and 64
At least he's pretty decent in Ultimate.
I do too, since smash 64 the only game i played for the smash series i always have him as my main and he´s also my favourite video game charecter... its a shame he was the worst on melee with bowser. but he became decent in the other smash games and he was soo goodand Op in smash 64.
I started playing melee semi-casually a few weeks ago and always wondered why Kirby was ranked as such an incredibly bad character, because he didn't *feel* terrible when trying him out while I was figuring out which character I liked the most, so it makes sense that it seems to be mostly that his toolkit overall is just very weak when compared to other characters instead of it just being a melee moment™. Fantastic video as always. Your channel is a huge inspiration to me :]
I mean, his fthrow and bthrow are pretty "melee moment™" imo.
Yeah two moments really hammered home why Kirby can seem okay at first but be so crap:
Puff vs Kirby jumps: pound and airspeed completely solve horizontal recovery. That difference is massive.
The joking "flowchart" moments where it's like "okay, grab leads into something if you read it and don't do a non functional throw. Up tilt into --> single aerial is your best punish" makes it really stark. As a beginner you're mostly stringing together random hits out of neutral. Every other character eventually links those hits together into a strategy. Kirby just kinda has to win neutral 100 times
Tangentially related: I was a Zelda main growing up and even casual players would ask why I didn't play Sheik. I said that Sheik was easier to pickup because of her speed, but as you got better and learned how to use Zelda's kit, Zelda was actually the better character.
I was... incorrect in my assessment
@@sdw-hv5ko Weird, as a kid growing up, we gravitated towards Zelda > Sheik because her smash attacks are strong and we gravitated towards strong smash attacks.
Nobody really knew how to kill with Sheik, nor could we make use of her other features.
@@sdw-hv5ko Lmao
2:30 Haha that was me! I wrote a comment about exactly that on one of your vids a long time ago, asking for an explanation. I'm so happy you did! :D
I don't even play Smash Bros in any capacity and I've accidentally, truly accidentally, watched every single one of your videos. The way you present information pulls the viewer right in. You've trimmed all the fat and inserted just the right amount of humor.
Bravo. I need more of this.
This is how i started playing lol
Kirby's not a bad character; he's just holding back his true power.
He let the rest of the cast have some fun
Keep thinking that
@@TrueTrickster2016 My guy Kirby literally destroys anyone in the entire Smash cast (not just Melee) based on his canonical power, only like Pyra/Mythra and Sora have a legitimate chane of beating him, so yeah he is indeed holding back
Delusional
He doesn't want to get banned from low level tournaments.
I love the idea that Kirby, a being that kills demons straight from hell on a weekly basis and literally survived the extinction of the end of a universe, sucks at hand-to-hand combat. Guess nobody has destroyed his cake yet.
I like to imagine that Kirby views them all as his friends and prefers not to unleash his true power against them
@@n.andkirby He knew what happened in 64 and decided to have mercy.
@@n.andkirby in 64, he simply saw everything as a competition and did not hold back. But in Melee and other subsequent games, he’s grown to see the other smashes as friends and thus takes it easier on them
i love the lore explaining why Kirby is caca in melee. he wants his new friends to have fun after destroying them in 64 lmao
The stronger you are canonically, the shittier you are in Smash (e.g Ganondorf)
I like to think (despite validity) that Kirby is bad in Melee because he's too... normal. Many hitboxes are more realistic, and many of the better characters rely on some sort of exploit or mistake in the design. This may be an excuse, but especially with how fun he is, that's just fine with me.
Edit: Another comment mentioned he may have been designed earlier than the others, and that could pair with this. They had a style, but concepts changed as the rest of the game developed. (again, more breaks and such as well)
Wrong
Save for his throws, Kirby's kit in general is just underwhelming, there is no fatal flaw that ruins the character, nor a certified "melee moment™" in him, he is just plain Bad in everything
normal? does his f-Smash seems normal to you?
@@elmaionesosexo ok
No he's just bad, even if he hits with this mediocre hit boxes he does no damage, has good but very gimpable recovery, one of the worst dash dances in the game etc, only one or two characters rely on something that isn't baked into the engine to be good
Your videos are always something I look forward to :) I'm not even a Melee player, I only played Ultimate for ~1 year
Thanks for this amazing content!!
Kirby in lore: giga death god
Kirby in game: expired hostess snowball
Kirby in lore: extremely overrated
@@zeff3016
Does overrated really mean anything in this age beyond "I don't like thing that other people like"?
One little note that makes Kirby's Up B worse is that it has no rising hitbox, so the opponent can really safely hit him while he's recovering with it
Dude pjiggles the jigglypuff TH-camr is a supporter of this man
SM64 Kirby mains: Heck yeah I love Kirby!
SM64 Kirby mains playing Melee: Look how they massacred my boy
I just realized the thumbnail tells a little story. In a different video, bowser is shown picking flowers. In this one, he's shown giving the flowers to Kirby. What a nice fella.
0:10 Holy F...Sakurai is just getting younger
0:02 6 tickets to minions the rise of gru please
Can't believe gru eats rice
Wait rise of gru came out 2 years ago
@@Vixigard 3
@@Jojeezz time flys bro😢
Man, your editing really shows how passionate you are about Melee and your craft. It truly is inspiring
'Welcome to the Salty Splatoon! How tough are ya?'
'I have climbed to the very top of a Melee tournament without a high tier'
'I see... Who is your main?'
'Kirby'
'Dear God, Errmm... Right this way you madman...'
Therapist: "Pregnant Masahiro Sakurai isn't real, he can't hurt you."
Pregnant Masahiro Sakurai: 0:17
Maybe his brain was pregnant because that’s the womb where Kirby was. Sakurai’s hand was the father for drawing him, and his brain is the mother for birthing him.
To wall out Fox: Expertly maneuver yourself into a position just out of range of most of Fox's moves, while also maintaining range of your moves.
To wall out Kirby: Press the L button.
What do you do if kirby grabs?
0:25 In Ultimate when Kazuya throws several characters off a cliff Kirby is the one to float right back up again
in sakurais defense I think Kirby is the only character who could survive that encounter legitimately
@@JenovaDreamweaverjigglypuff could've done the same
I do not play melee but i really love your videos. Always such good quality i literally watch them on repeat while playing osrs 24/7
Same, hes one of the best fgc + smash you tubers
Yooo, OSRS gamers rise up
Actually insane how good these videos are. Shit got me bricked up lowkey 💀💀
Hell yeah. Can I ask why you don't play? I don't think it's weird I used to be that way with Pokemon.
@@x9x9x9x9x9 i tried but its not my type of fighting game. I am very big into the Slowclap game Absolver and considered making a similar video like Asum does with Meele about all the broken moves in that game (for example there are like 10-12 moves in the game that have incorrect framedata)
Another few things about Kirby
1. His forward, back and up throw lose all his jumps
2. His inhale hitbox gets smaller midair compared to grounded inhale
3. There's a cool absolutely useless tech with dash attack, if you dash attack right before running off a platform, you can cancel dash attack's animation with a grab
Going into Melee I didn't know his up special also discards all jumps, I routinely die because of that.
And the inhale hitbox doesn't even change to the larger version when you land on the ground, it just stays the small one
@@strangejune thats normal though
@@leaffinite2001 Yeah, I just didn't know when I stated playing.
Looks like Kirby can't catch a break
If you really want to main an awful character -and surprise people when you rekt them because they don't know the match up,- you should use male wireframe instead.
Sadly, the "play a bad character so people don't know the matchup" niche is the personal property of Zelda, because Zelda can take a cheeky stock here and there... and then switch to a character who is actually good.
Dude I'd rather female wire frame than male wire frame. Male is straight up unusable
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 zelda is the weirdest character to me in melee because she has a move that literally turns her into a top tier.
@@Tron_Cykharthys how? female wireframe is literally a worse version of Zelda. At least male has some of captain falcons attributes.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290 that was probably the wrong thing to say. Anyone who's knows captain falcon's match knows what male wireframe's deal is (either then he's much worse)
Here are some more fun useful facts about Kirby that makes him even more....
Shit.
Kirby's ub-b when used consumes all of his jumps, even if he has used only one! So if he gets hit once, even on the startup, he's dead no matter what.
The same thing applies with his up throw! And it is why a lot of players only go for up throw at low percents, since it MAY lead to a tech chase on a platform, IF your opponent is drunk, or really slow. However, it can be used to Kirbycide that cannot be escaped out of.... if you roll to the back of ledge and your opponent somehow doesn't see it coming.
Kirby's down throw sends at such a bad angle, Marth can immediately up-b out of it to prevent being tech chased. Not only can Marth up-b out, but puff can actually REST. Meaning if you grab puff and they know about it, they can immediately kill you with rest at 13%.
Kirby rock can actually slide along ledges and is pretty funny to use on Yoshi's if someone is recovering along the side and you want to have a good chuckle.
Kirby's dash attack when caped by Doc or Mario actually slide backwards, so he does his own version of the flaming moonwalk.
Kirby's biggest claim to fame is the fact that his spotdodge is the fastest in the cast. Meaning when you see Kirby's just spotdodge like crazy, they're just using the only thing that makes Kirby.... Kirby.
I've mained Kirby for a long time, and appreciate you reading this! :) I'd love to see if there is anything else not so commonly known about Kirby!
People who main kirby and bowser are masochistic chads
Why Main Kirby?
His spotdodge is just tied for fastest with like 10 other characters including fox, falco, and sheik
@@seronymus Honestly, when I started playing Melee 8 years ago, I was a Marth main and I could never beat this Shiek main.
So I switched to Kirby and just had fun :)
@@bobbbyjohnson based sigma behavior, God bless ya. Puyo~🌟
I heard that for Ultimate, Sakurai chose Kirby for the WoL campaign starting character because of the characters that could feasibly escape Galeem(Palutena, Bayonetta, Kirby...) Kirby was the most beginner friendly.
No one really talks about Kirby in Melee. It's so underwhelming, but in a boring way. It doesn't have a glaring flaw, but just has no upside. Even other low tier characters have something they do best out of all the entire cast. Kirby has nothing.
"mons" ?
@@mxBug Yeah I have no clue where that came from.
'mons'?
noms? nom nom?
I mean, Kirby has low profiling with his crouch?
When Melee first came out, I had been a Kirby player in OG Smash. Coming into the game I obviously picked Kirby first, and *immediately* felt the difference. For decades I have lived with the assumption that Sakurai nerfed Kirby into the ground because of how dominant he had been in OG, and this video only solidifies that belief.
Poor Kirby, he went from an amazing character in 64 to pretty bad
2nd best to 2nd worst, complete 180 lol
Poor fella
And didn't really comeback out of bottom half valley, did he
Kirby as a Smash character really was only a 64 character (in terms of being a good character you’d even consider someone play in a Smash game)
And never recovered btw, Brawl was the last game where he was at least decent
11:14 falcon named finger:
Wow, I didn't expect to see you here
MAFIA DICE REAL!!!1!1!!!
This guy is not real
the delivery on "so abysmally shit" genuinely had me spit my food, definitely was NOT trying to, you are wonderful and spread so much unspeakable joy into so many people's world
They really did shaft Kirby in Melee, he went from the second best character in 64 to the second worst in the transfer to Melee unironically.
and he hasn't exactly been good ever since either
@@jerry3115 He's... fine in Ultimate. Far from his former glory, but perfectly playable and has some nice traits.
@@webbowser8834 and still near, if not in the bottom
@@webbowser8834 “Perfectly playable”
Eh. Definitely nowhere near as bad as Melee but like… eh. He just struggles against so much of the roster that he just doesn’t feel fun to play.
I’d been playing as him competitively since the beginning of Smash 4 but dropped him a few months ago in favor of Dark Pit because I dread fighting about 70% of the roster as Kirby. He gets steamrolled by speed demons, walled out by swordies and zoners, and deleted in three hits by heavies since they tend to outrange him. He’s got decent CQC but struggles to make use of it and he’s the got the low weight of a lot of high/top tiers but very little of the power and none of the speed that usually accompanies it.
Second best to second worst
Gosh, I just love the visuals for your videos. They’re always great and feel so varied.
Even at a different points during subspace, each of the Kirby characters have very important roles. Kirby escorts one of the princesses and helps save everyone in the maze, dedede is a main point of conflict for all of the cartoony characters (along with having the brooches), and meta knight literally drives the story forward by having his ship introduce the first subspace bomb and primids, as well as being a meeting point for all of the characters later on
Oh, Sakurai really and REALLY loves Kirby
The titlecard of this video is brutal. I never wanted to see kirby with the equivalent of a dunce hat 😭
Bowser took 2 years to give kirby a flower
Sakurai decided after Kirby being a high tier in 64, he needed to screw him over in melee. Truly an act of tough love, to teach him how to lose gracefully
triple R has beat Kels several times with Kirby and other prominent midwest players which is for sure a bigger accomplishment than beating Blur/drunk armada
what tourney did RRR beat kels at? its not on his wiki page but if u know which tourney its pretty easy to verify if the smash gg bracket is still up
@@drcreed6320 theres almost no way it wasnt on challonge... long time ago lol
It's so wild how Kirby is one of the most beginner-friendly characters but completely falls apart competitively. Excellent vid as always.
Not in 64. Super easy to play AND top tier lol.
True! Though it seems accidental, it always feels like Kirby in every subsequent smash game was an overcorrection for being one of the most broken characters in 64. Despite everything, he’s still fun and funny to play though!
@@maskeraider If Sakurai didn't care about looking biased or if someone else developed Smash as the leader, I'm sure Kirby would be better. Start by giving him a new moveset that represents his series better. I hope that the next smash is a reboot.
I love how people always say Kirby needs a moveset that represents his series "better"...
I agree that he needs a better moveset, but outside of his Smash Attacks and Tilts...his series is pretty well represented in his moveset.
There's a lot of room for improvement and just more creative abilities.
@@SonicmaniaVideos Don't forget all of his getup attacks and all of his aerials (except maybe nair).
4:45 NO KIRBY, THIS IS A GAME FOR GOOD BOYS AND GIRLS!
The editing and presentation of these videos is definitively S tier
11:01 If Kirby had Falco's Blaster instead of Inhale, he'd go up at least ten placements.
He'd honestly be like B tier. That laser alone would make him viable.
Kirby's dash attack isn't actually ALL bad. There's a really goofy little tech you can do with it where if you dash attack off of the edge of a platform, you can cancel it into a grab once you touch the ground. Look up "kirby dash attack cancel" if you want to see it ^^
well, combo exist and interesting to know but it's look kinda bad
@@munsterotaku3058 I mean, you do have to be playing as Kirby in order to be able to do it, so I have to agree with you hahaha
I had to read this over a few times just to make sure this wasn't like a "search up sonic inflation" joke
@@navadax4541 i hate that you're right about that, it totally does read like that hahaha
Couple of “fun” Kirby facts.
If you use dash attack as soon as you leave a platform and land on stage while holding Z, you will immediately perform a grab when the active frames end.
Kirby’s down-b will not slide on the top left platform of Kongo Jungle 64. It will slide on the right platform and the bottom stage ramps, however. This fact was used by Triple R to defeat BunBun (another Kirby main) in a long ago Kirby ditto.
I’d like to mention, donkey Kong to this day still has a tie hit box
If Puff is a glass cannon (both gets kills and gets killed early), Kirby is a glass nerf gun
Finally we know to who Bowser offered flowers, my life is complete...
Ayo truee
low tier homies stick together
what was the timestamp? i didnt see it
@@Dizzy330 it's litterally the thumbnail compared to the other video
@@MAJJASTAK OH
2:00 really the song "you and me" from futari no fantavision, you are really pulling from the deepest recesses of bossa nova beats
12:26 This is so true. Everytime I play Zelda, there's a good 50% chance the opponent will just leave.
Fun Fact: Sakurai actually considered Palutena or Bayonetta to be the surviving character in World of Light, but Kirby was ultimately (hah) chosen because not only does he canonically fight god-like entities, but he also just happens to be the perfect tutorial character.
I remember dominating with Kirby in the video game club back in middle school not knowing he was a bottom tier character. I just always thought he was a cute little guy.
Putting 'at least he's cute' in the description as if Bowser isn't as cute or cuter
I just realised the genius that is the fact that this is bowsers perspective from the worst character thumbnail.
12:06 - "Tough it out", that's a fucking top referential parallel to Kirby 64 if intentional.
dont forget that kirby's final jump doesn't actually have a net vertical gain
The thumbnail references bowser picking flowers in the video about him from 2 years ago.
AsuSamus level of detail never ceases to awe me.
At 7:09 I thought he was gonna top it off with "and no bitches"
*me TOTALLY not studying this vid to find out how to buff kirby*
Me, TOTALLY being an melee player
Bowser was picking flowers for Kirby.
Really cute lore.
I have never played Melee in my entire life and most likely will never do that in the future, but your videos are just made so fucking well, and the way you present them (editing, sound design) is just very fun to look at, and even as someone who cant really get any use of the information youre telling, its still very interesting.
I love how the thumbnail shows Bowser holding flowers to Kirby, representing he is also the worst character, trying to make friends with the other worst character.
Kirby is the neglected child
Editing on point, as always!!
As a kirby main, thanks for making this video.
idk why but kirby killing crimson with the marth killer gives off such goated energy.
I feel like kirby's dash attack being so long and being able to fall off ledges could've actually been pretty fun to mess around with in ultimate,
10:23 oh please keep going, it gets worse
If you get hit out of Kirby's up-b, you lose all your jumps - you can actually see it in the clip shown for this too, he should've had 5 jumps left but doesn't recover to ledge bc he lost them getting hit out of up-b
That's not necessarily exclusive to Kirby, though. With Jigglypuff, Yoshi and his exception, everyone loses their double jump as soon as they Up-B (also true for a few other specials). HOWEVER Kirby only loses his jumps if he gets hit out of the uppercut portion onward of Up-B!
@@DootNootem which is why it functionally sucks
And if he uses up or down throw
You mean up forward and back throws
@@jmurray1110 no, up b too
I would personally love other videos in this style, a complete analysis of every character, showing every jank for every character, I would watch
Love the fake out in the beginning.
“We all know who Sakurai is! Oh, and there’s also Miyamoto or whatever.
the two year long callback to bowser’s flower picking thumbnail, him giving to kirb💓
I got absolutely blown away at 2:06 at hearing a track from Futarino Fantavision. The soundtrack for that game is fenomenal. The gameplay, however, isn't that super, but still fun from time to time.
I remember playing it's multiplayer with my girlfriend a few years back at new years eve, and it was actually really fun! Might even recommend the game for just a NYE game with friends. It's also really cheap, as I got it for €1,99 from my local gamestore.
I have a vivid memory of playing a demo version of melee on a display cabinet outside of Babbage's a bit before it came out. My older brother and I picked our smash 64 mains, Samus and Kirby respectively. I lost, and remember feeling like I just couldn't accomplish anything for some reason. Even at the age of 10, with no understanding of frame data, neutral, or really anything approaching fighting game fundamentals, I could still tell that melee Kirby was trash.
I just learned like last week that when Kirby up B's, regardless of how many jumps he had left he loses them all. They really went out of their way to just make him almost unplayable
I main kirby in ssbu, mainly because I just really like him. but i also think it's because I want to prove something, like yes his hitboxes are short, yes he's slow, yes he's not the best, but I'm still wining with him. Even if it takes a while. And something about beating some bahemoth with this tiny little pink marshmallow is really satisfying.
the amount of times my friends who barely have played melee have kirby ledge cheesed me to victory, I have to say this is categorically false information
"Half-conscious piss-drunk Armada" is now my new favourite term for powerscaling
Same
Everyone says that Kirby only survived because it was Sakurai’s character when, canonically, the Warp Star can travel around Popstar 2 times in around 5 seconds
This is why I consider melee to be a fun fighting game, but not a good smash game. When I think of Smash, I think of a wide cast of characters. But even as kids, my friends and I naturally found the best characters in the game. We talking 11 year olds before any of us had internet access. The moment Brawl came out, we never went back to Melee because characters that were just awful (now finding out they were broken all along) were finally useable.
This is why PM is the best
Videos like these make me pray for the day humanity comes to their senses and realize it’s time for Melee to get an official remake. The showerless can disagree but it needed to be said.
Kirby is a Smash Ultimate character stuck in Melee
Really good video and a very informative one at that. I love the placement of some of the sound effects as well, it made some parts of the video really funny.