3D Printing Elephants foot. How your lead screw is causing it and how to fix it! Ender 3v2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ย. 2021
- In this video, I explain how I found out my issue that was causing elephants foot in my prints, and welding my first layer that had tight tolerances. I use a dial gauge that can be purchased from Amazon at the link below. I hope this is helpful and informative. Thanks for watching.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01...
Dial Gauge holder for Ender 3 v2
www.thingiverse.com/thing:454... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I have been 3D printing for five years already, I got my first Ender 3 two years ago and it started printing with elephant's foot a while ago, and I never suspected from that lead screw nut. I had honestly given up on printing accurately. This video changed everything. Thank you so much!
My E3 has just started too with Elephantitis. Did you fix yours by this method, if not what worked?
These are the types of problems that are so frustrating yet so satisfying when solved. Thank you for posting!
I've built a couple of CNC routers, a CNC milling machine. And now a Voron V0.1. The issue is your gantry bearings are too tight. While your explanation of what backlash is, is totally correct. If your bearings on your gantry are set correctly, and good. The reason the bearings being too tight causes this is because these machines are designed to have a constant weight downward on the lead screw. This is why they do not use an anti backlash nut from the start. And if in fact there is a constant force downward. There is no backlash. Because it should be pushing down on the lead screw at all times I had this same issue when I started printing a couple years ago with my V2. Just a quick adjustment on bearing preload. And it dropped down. And has never been a problem since.
You are correct that the nuts do wear out though, and we should keep an eye on them because they're cheap and easy to replace.
I fully agree with this, re gantry bearings. I have also found that the bed temperature differences for various filaments affects the bed levelling, Z-stop index (of course), but also I guess due to heat soaking, the gantry bearing pressures. My Ender 3 V2 is in an enclosure and I recently gave it a good clean and service, lubricated the Z-axis screw, and also adjusted all my bearings making them just a tad tighter - then started getting elephants foot and undersize calibration cubes in Z only, mainly on PLA, but not on PETG parts. I was suspecting my anti-backlash nut was getting a little tired, but then thought it through properly (as believe you are perfectly correct; the Ender 3 is designed to have constant weight on the lead screw nut and the anti-backlash nut does solve the gantry 'drop' / backlash issue which just needs to be understood). I cycled the machine-up/down the Z-axis a few times, re-checked & adjusted Z steps and re-dialed-in my profiles taking my time and properly heat soaking the machine each time. Took me three or four calibration cubes per material, but elephants foot solved - getting the non-driven gantry bearing adjustment just right was key, and had to be a compromise for various temperatures, and also use a different Z-offset for each material - as get about 0,1mm gantry drop on PLA but none when using PETG. A dual Z-drive lead screw system would definitely help, but even then the gantry bearings would still have to be set just right.
@@chrisgill5692 Right! I have dual Z on all my Ender style printers. Some with dual motors and one with a belt at the top connecting two rods. But by far the best and most reliable has been KevinAKAsam’s belted Z mod. If you don’t know… It removes the leadscrews altogether from the z axis and replaces it with a belt drive system. No more z banding, no more temperature caused differences. I’m currently working on collecting and printing parts to do the belted z mod to my other three Enders.
@@brandoncrimmins6296 yeah thanks, seen that linear rail/belt mod - looks really nice, simple and reasonably good value. With some effort, these cheap Ender's are good enough for my needs and I can get really nice prints (if a little slow) - it's just how much effort!!! 🤣
@@chrisgill5692 100% agreed! I have 4 Ender 3 style machines and they all still work great. Yes they print at about a 1/4 the speed of my vorons and even my Flashforge Adventurer 3 is a little quicker and more convenient with the WiFi. But the Enders just keep working. They print very well for the money and it’s hard to beat the value! Especially since I buy most of my machines on second hand/return sales through the manufacturer. The last Enders clone I bought was only $59! It’s a Voxelab Aquila S2.
Hey, i have an ender 3v2, but i dont completely understand your solution, i am not sure which bearings are too tight?
Great job addressing the issue instead of implementing a poor workaround.
This is brilliant. You and your channel continue to blow me away. Thanks!
Thank you for sharing your struggles and the process for how you work and think thru a process and come to a resolution.
Your videos are awesome. there are so many videos about software and settings, but rarely do you get in depth descriptions of the mechanical issues. Keep it up!
I would just like to thank you. I don't currently have this issue - but I am hungry to learn solutions to potential problems so I can think fast and not lose downtime if my printers develop issues. Super clear demo and makes it seem so obvious (its easy when you know!) - and just goes to show - you never finish upgrading your printers!
THANK YOU SO MUCH You have different information in all your videos than the norm and its ALWAYS really good and a different way of looking at things, and is therefore more helpful.
Love the videos, thanks for sharing this. I just got 3 more ender 3 v2's ordered so I'll definitely be applying this knowledge.
Im so happy that I found yout video. this is a problem in one of my ender 3, that I am only using to do flat base prints
This is a perfect explanation for my issues as well. Gonna try the anti-backlash nuts to see it it fixes the issue.
Thanks!
Great content! Continue in this path of greatness!
Really good explanation, I´m running some printers here in Brazil and this type of information is great for me and for the community!
You are right that there is back lash but all the back lash is taken away once the lead screw makes contact with the other side of the threads. This means that the back lash is taken out very quickly, not 8mm, its just like a manual milling machine. Someone already said that the indicator is away from the lead screw so you could have some cantilever action going on, with this I say check the rollers on the z-axis. As much as it seems you are printing I would say you have some wear on the plastic rollers. Adding a second lead screw was one of the best investments I have done with my printers.
Spot On! This is the BEST explanation/demonstration video on a 3d printing issue Ive seen. Excellent presentation man! As a machinist that started with manual machinery decades ago, Ive always been aware of lead screw backlash, and it has always been second nature to always feed into the part to make an offset. By installing an anti backlash nut on an Ender 3 v2, it will remove the backlash, but will only be about 80-90% of the elephants foot issue. I noticed a very slight elephants foot still remaining, and slightly more pronounced toward the right side of the part. The problem that also contributes to it is the gantry squareness to the bed as the single lead screw moves it up and down. No matter how perfectly the Z axis rollers are dialed in, with the lead screw on only one side, the opposite side of the gantry deflects up or down slightly as the lead screw changes direction. I installed the dual lead screw kit with anti backlash nuts, and my machine is now producing zero elephants foot with dimensional consistency to .02 squareness over the entire width of the X axis, where with the single lead screw it was varying nearly .1, no matter how perfectly the bed was leveled in the X axis. My next upgrades will be linear rails and dual ball screws. I would expect tolerances and finishes that would rival my cnc mill.
Beautiful man.. ! Good and clear narration.
Great video, thank you so much for the detailed explanation . I tried the anti-backlash nut and it fixed all my problems!
Great video. I've seen that other one with the wrench you mentioned, and I think you actually explained it much better. I'm subscribing
Amazingly informational. Thanks!
Wow this is really good to know. Great demonstration with the wrench!
Nice explanation. Been struggling with this a little bit lately and my bed is dialled in almost perfect due to having BLTouch and Dual-Z screws which reduced elephants foot a lot while actually increasing my first layer adhesion. Going to add anti-backlash screws to try and get rid of that last little bit of elephants foot that I still have. Thanks!
man you are a hero !!!! a bunch of people are having issues with that here in Brazil
Great video. I am glad I found your channel. Great way to show what happens over time. Keep ion the good work. 😁👍
There is definitely some great info on this channel. Subbed and looking forward to more content.
Hey man, you’re doing well. I hope you are keeping it up. This video helped me. Ordering a new lead screw assembly today. I’m trying to launch my own idea too. Thanks!
Thank You so much for the info and demonstration very helpful keep up the good work.
Finally!!!Thank you for this video. I have been saying this for weeks. I’m at the point of changing my z-stop after the first layer, then again every layer for the first few layers, until it prints smoothly. I’m adjusting the z stop 0.3-0.4mm during the first few layers.
Bro because of your video I finally found my problem! Thank you very much for finding this!
Hey, thanks for the video! Very informative. Keep up the good work
This blew my mind, subscribed
Thank you for sharing this.
I have been having similar issues with my Ender 3 V2 and this might just be the solution.
Don't know how much to thank you! Super super helpful... 0.25 mm elephant foot was literally killing many of my tiny prints
So excited for this channel to grow. I see a lot of potential
Thank you I hope to keep putting out valuable content!
Brilliant no bs and very easy to understand and you dont shout keep it up 👍
GREAT VIDEO!! thank you for taking your time to explain this! Now i have to consider trying a belt driven z axis mod for my printers...
Just bought my 3d printer. I don't know if the elephant foot in my prints is due to backlash (probably yes), but this video really enriched my knowledge. Thank you!
Can't believe I haven't found your channel before. Finally someone that uses mainstream printers as a small business and trying to solve real technical issues for part quality and not just for the fastest benchy print. I'm about to release my small 3D printed gizmo in a week. I spent the last year experimenting with five printers that I've modified to achieve an almost perfect surface finish. You have a ton of great findings that I'll start watching now and offer you my own findings. Claude
Hows things going?
Great video and like the way you explain and gives people an example, 👍🏻😎
After following your calibration video i managed to get my printer working fine as i mentioned on another video , but i still had a little issue with the first few layers. Had some backlash kits on hand and installed one and now that issue is gone...please keep those videos coming ...
This is an eye opener, thank you
Just installed those backlash nuts on the cr10s pro v2. Was having problem with travel/tire marks on my print. Seems to show some improvement after auto-leveling. Readings were better compared to stock brass fitting. Thanks!
My question has been answered. Tried lowering temp, increasin minimum time per layer, printing slower. although, it has helped but that stinky foot was still there. buying a ton of those now. thanks.
Wow! I finally know what's going on. That's why I am getting the elephant foot and shorter prints and weird oval holes on the walls of the part! There is some setting in cura to eliminate EF but it didn't do anything for my prints. I wonder if i can replace the lead screw with a cheap Chinese ball screw. I hear that cheap ball screws are usually shipped bent a little which affect prints. Thank you for making this video man.
Thanks for this - I never thought of this, but it makes sense.
Thanks a lot, I’ve been hitting my head on this for a long time now. Thanks!
You're welcome!
Thanks for sharing the solution
Eye opening, more like mind blowing. Excellent explanation!
Also, new subscriber :)
I came to 3D printing a few years ago, from an engineering background. First mod on my cheap Ender machine? Anti-backlash nuts - they don't completely solve it, but reduce it and also act as vibration dampers. Keep your lead screw clean and apply dry lubricant now and again.
Thanks for the study.
From France
❤🎉 Great, just ordered my anti-backlash nut for E3V2 to test your solution. Tried a lot to rid of elephant’s foot.
Probably explains why I can never use Z-Hop on my Ender 3. It's almost as if it drops one layer to much or to little from time to time.
Thank you for the video
for me my Z gantry has a 0.001mm creep when going up or down it can be the cause of it
Thanks! I went to check my lead screw and a whole screw for that missing!
you are absolutely right, very good job.
I've never seen anyone talking about it, and it's very relevant.
I've already noticed that it's very rare for my prints to show this defect on my 2.4 Voron, which has a belt for the z axis.
now I understand better, I'm going to take this measurement to see the slack I have on my machines with a bar on the z axis.
The belt driven z definitely helps! I think it's the best option with linear rails.
Very nice, I have an ender 3 and also a newbie, might want to consider this solution to elephants foot.
Very good explanation, thank you for sharing :)
Thank you, this never occured to me that it would be what's causing my problem.
Thats why I went completely belt and gear driven, too easy to chase my own tail fixing issues, and I also have the same digital gauge but I have some stem extensions for a custom mount, a gauge is far and away the best way to level a bed manually.
Very good video, I would have loved to see you repeat the same test with the anti-backlash nuts in place and see the difference it makes in the video rather than just your description at the end.
Great demonstration. Thanks
Thank you, and congratulation from Ukraine 🇺🇦. I found new power to restart my hobby in 3d printing
HOLY GOD!!!! I must've watched like 15 videos on elephant's foot and NONE of them were able to fix the issue I was having! I spent over a week troubleshooting and adjusting bed leveling, bed temperature, Z-Offset, recalibrating my E-Steps, and various other things! (The E-Steps helped a little bit) I watch this video and put an anti-backlash nut on my lead screw and BAM! I'm back in business like it's brand new! I can't thank you enough for posting this! I've never had a problem with elephant's foot before (been printing for about 9 months) and none of the traditional methods seemed to fix my issue. This video opened my eyes to an issue that I had never considered and honestly didn't know anything about! ISSUE SOLVED!!! Once again, thank you so much for posting this! HUGE HELP!
Really glad this was able to help you! This kicked my ass too until one day i had my aha moment.
Makes total sense! I always figured those anti backlash nuts were a gimmick since the printer z dimension only goes up during a print. Never crossed my mind that it’s first movement is transitioning from down to up. Meanwhile nearly all my prints have a bit of elephants foot. Hope this solves it! Thanks you!
Reduced the issue from measuring my first print but didn't completely resolve the it. I'm struggling with bed adhesion to rule out the bed/nozzle distance. Maybe I'm being too picky. The elephants foot is .085-.11mm. That doesn't seem like it would be a lot but you can feel it on all prints, its visible in certain conditions on others. Again maybe I'm just asking too much at this point from a 200 dollar printer....
Wow, been 3d printing for 3 years and never heard of this, need to check my oldest printer
Well just for this you got another subscriber. 👍
Interesting. I calculated new e-steps for z axis steppermotor because it did not move up as reguested. So it might be my z leadscrew nut then. Thank you for this info. You got a new sub.
Thank you!
Once backlash is taken up, there shouldn’t be any further deviation. Reducing backlash will help, but you’ve got something else going on too. I’d start by checking square on the Z gantry.
Thank you for making this video!
You're welcome 😊
Awesome video m8! I like short and sweet videos like this.
Thanks for watching!
Another great video! Really digging your channel. Glad you mentioned "consumables" as well. I had asked the reddit group a little while back about maintenance on their machines and essentially nobody answered. But all machines have wear parts so I was just trying to get an idea of when I should look out for certain parts to fail or need replacing. Seems like 3d printers should have a chart like in an automotive users manual of when to replace parts! haha.
With all those machines running, I'd be really curious to hear how your wheels hold up and how often you need to replace them.
I plan to put a maintenance video together! I 100% agree with you that there should be a maintenance schedule similar to preventative maintenance guides from equipment manufacturers. I am putting some ideas together for creating an hours meter for the ender 3 v2, and with that we are able to track time and have the data for properly timed maintenance items
@@miltonb4522 they do have that, but I find myself at my 3d printers a lot more often than the PC. I want to develop an actual 8 segment display that shows total hours.
@@collect3d wouldn't a centrally controlled print farm be capable of just warning you when one of your printers is due to maintenance. A display of total print hours sounds OK for 20 printers, but scale that up to 60 and it is easy to loose track of all of them.
Great engineering approach ... Binding in the v wheels and backlash in the lead screws .... The single lead screw doesn't help either... Thank You!
Thank you so much, very useful VERY!
I started using 3d printed anti backlash nuts a while ago, I may have to change them a bit more frequently than metal, but they're tiny and can be printed with very little filament. This was an excellent video that more people probably need to see
I don't have an Ender but I downgraded my z screws to m6 and designed anti backlash nuts with actual springs in them connecting two normal stainless nuts. For now the Z screws are mild steel but I'll replace them with stainless if needed.
A year late I know, but brass anti-backlash nut kits aren't really that expensive, and if you occasionally lube the z axis lead screw, will last indefinitely.
Had the same issue. Added a backlash nut and problem solved.
What an excellent video sir and this will be my first ever TH-cam comment. I will add one thing your analysis as a preventative measure in addition to the anti backlash nut. Grease your lead screw. My Ender 3 came with almost no grease and after 6 months the nut had worn out as you described here. I think this nut simply needs replacement after some amount of time but grease will extend its life
I appreciate that! Thank you!
I have new lead screw nut on order right now for this exact problem on my Ender 3 Pro. My Ender 5 doesn't have this issue. I knew something was up when the BLtouch didn't seem to work and I could print the first layer with the nozzle too far from the bed and the 2nd layer was way too close to the bed.
Backlash is nessecery in mechanical components. Even milling machines that cost 100's of thousands of dollars have backlash, so never completely remove backlash. Great video, I skipped the crescent wrench explanation but it looked like a good way to explain it. Good advice to watch the backlash.
Thanks Dustin!
Thanks for the tips!
man I am gonna replace my lead screw nut r away, I got some wierd problems w my printer and w layers (some 2 thin some 2 thick), ty. so much man and keep it up, stay strong :D
Hopefully this is the fix for you! Thanks for watch
Hello, well done!
But from my humble point of view it's only half of the investigation of the engineering task. I observed simelar problems on my Ender-3 (Pro) and was investigating them too, the same way as you did with a dial gauge. I went further by testing the reproducability of the zero position and could observe, that the reproducablity of any desired postion was in the range of a one digit number of 1/100 millimeter, when the print head was settling from top to bottom after I raised the print head at least 0.3 or more millimeters and then settling it back onto the desired position, just the same way as Z hop of 0.3 mm or more does.
Since I do not like to Z hop on every print head move to avoid Z nut wear, I crafted a Z layer change G code for the slicer, which does the Z hop only on layer change and all my elephant foots where gone, also without those spring loaded backlash nuts. I'm curious, if this could work for you too?
But anyway, well done and well presented. Regards, J'Lo
Smart thinking! 👍
Idk how the algorithm knew this was my problem but holy shit thank you bro
Well thank you again great video like always i fixed the elephant foot but now im struggling with ghosting haha .i guess the ender 3v2 is more a project for me than a tool🥲
very NICE video! thank you
its a great explanation for elephants foot. What I also found that helps is increasing your mesh fade height if you have a severely warped bed and elephants foot that goes up 1mm or more.
Late to the party but great video and explanation. BL touch has to be one of the worst “upgrades”…the tolerances on a stock E3 just aren’t made for it, yet it’s one of the first things people will do.
I dont know if it is backlash since the weight of the gantry will always make sure that the worm gear will always be resting on only 1 side of your gear nut it should never be able to engage the other side unless your printer flipped upside down. but it's always a good idea to replace these consumables when poor tolerances like these starts to appear.
Ty for this very well explained video .
do you have a reference of the anti backlash nut you have used ?
This is what I have purchased 2-Pack CR10 Z axis T8 Anti Backlash Spring Loaded Nut Elimination Gap Brass Nuts for Upgrade Ender 3 Ender 3s Ender 3 Pro V2 CR-10 Tornado 3D Printer 8mm Acme Threaded Rod www.amazon.com/dp/B08LZ1V56T/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_AQE7D5ZDW7GHA827H6HQ?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Nice going. I wonder if this backlash is causing my CR Touch readings to be off towards the back
Thanks :) helped a lot...
Another thing that may make the backlash seem worse on your ender 3, since you are measuring on the right side, is that the ender lifts from only one side, the left, and the right side is sort of dragging behind.
This is currently only theoretical idea.
Thus when you move down it stays higher than the left that is more rigidly connected to the lead screw and when move up, first it levels out with the right and left rollers then as you move more up the right side starts dragging along slightly behind the left side.
If i remember right one of the nuts on the right side is eccentric and is used to tension that sides rollers.
You are absolutely correct. The right side is worse than the left. I have another video planned where I will fully explain my findings on the ender 3, and the setbacks that I think keep it from being a perfect workhorse printer.
I believe a bltouch accounts for that tho
@@simonb252 does it?
I like to save really good printing tips to my "3Dprint" playlist, but I might need to develop stricter criteria because I keep saving every video of yours that I watch, which rather defeats the point of having a separate playlist 😅
Nice work mate!
Thank you!
Muchas Gracias por compartir sus conocimientos, saludos ► ! ! !
I now own two E3V2 printers. Recently, I have had several problems levelling the bed on the older of the two. I'd only changed the springs underneath the bed for the stronger yellow ones, the white PTFE tube for the blue Capricorn PTFE tube, and Creality's plastic extruder for a single gear aluminum one. I couldn't understand why I was having so much trouble levelling the bed after several months of reliable printing. Was the issue a mechanical one? Was it the electronics? I didn't know where to begin. I completely overhauled my printer twice now, and couldn't find the problem. I think you nailed it! Your grasp of the elephant's foot problem helped me to better understand 3D printers, and for that, I thank you. The problem you've presented here isn't obvious to many of us. I would go so far as to say that you've found a probable cause for many other Z-axis related problems. No one else has better demonstrated this problem than you at this moment. The lead screw indeed controls the accuracy of the nozzle's height in relation to the bed. If there's any play in this mechanism it will affect the height and accuracy with which the nozzle is positioned in relation to the bed. I never thought the brass nut's wear could lead to such issues, but it makes sense. I'd added lithium grease to this nut to promote parts longevity from friction, but that was the extent of my knowledge. But now that you've mentioned it, this is probably the cause for height issues I've been having with my printer. For one thing, over time, my printer became more and more difficult to level. Now, my X-axis gantry never seems to be at the correct height when I go to print after levelling the bed. Presently, I find myself having to level the bed after every print, and that's not normal. There's always a difference between the heights of the nozzle and bed. The values indicated by the display aren't very useful to me, and changing the Z offset to correct this height difference afterwards is a major source of frustration, because the values are never the same, and sometimes it doesn't work. As everyone knows, it's that first layer that makes the perfect print. If the Z-axis' accuracy is thrown off by even the smallest amount it will affect print quality. I thought the firmware was changing the Z offset without my asking it to, and I couldn't understand why it might be doing this. But I think you're right. After 8 months of 24/7 printing, the brass nut may well have worn itself out, and the backlash will have increased because of it. I only recently began adding lithium grease to the nut, but it was probably too late. The play between brass nut and lead screw could very well be affecting the height of my X-axis gantry, and making bed-levelling next to impossible. Thank you for your observations and insight into this problem. You may have helped me to understand a problem I've been having with my printer for a long while now.
Hey Henri thanks for taking the time to comment. Sometimes you have to look at things for what they are. The main thing is X, Y, Z. If you have issues with plastic laying down somehow, those are the first three spots I would look at. It took me some time of constant thinking before I had my a-ha moment. Glad it has helped you and good luck with fixing it!
@@collect3d Thanks to your help I may have found a solution. Thanks again.
Would adding weight to the gantry (not the extruder) help to keep the nuts engaged with the lead screw? I guess a bit more extra weight would not harm at least since the Z-travel of the gantry is rather slow. Might be worth a try.
Hi, great job!!!!!!!
I would use this comparison meter but didn't found its holder. Can you write a link where I can do it?
Many Many thanks.
Mine started with elephants foot and has ended with not even sticking to the bed and prints failing 75% of the time. I have extra lead screws for a CNC im building so ill try this out thanks
could the underlying issue actually be the frame or the wheels. my reason for suggesting this is that backlash in a vertical position should not cause this type of issue due to gravity. if the frame or wheels was binding the maybe enough pressure at the bottom of the frame to hold the z axis away from contacting the leadscrew. fitting a anti backlash nut is helping to overcome this binding hence the improvement. I've rebuilt my e3v2 several times trying to improve the z axis fitted rails and tried a double leadscrew but the underlying issue seems to stem from the frame alignment
Are the vertical extrusions square? Gravity should be pushing the x gantry down and taking up backlash when moving upwards. Seems like your rollers are overly tight for some reason and exacerbating the backlash caused by the worn z rod and nut.
Thanks for sharing!
You're welcome I hope it was helpful
@@collect3d Every Experience shares its hopeful, thank God I don't have this problem yet :D but it's good to know :D