As an agnostic/atheist, I found your talk to be the most convincing argument for religion. I have been questioning my beliefs (or lack thereof) for a few years. I had a literal and profound religious experience upon visiting St Mark's Basilica -- against my wishes, dragged there by a friend on a trip to Rome. Really wanted to avoid the place given my convictions against Catholicism. Describing my surprising experience would take hundreds of words, if any words would even do. Despite my understanding of the psychological need to attach ourselves to something higher than ourselves, and having read some of your writings on the topic, Paul, I have put off an actual conversion. I have remained a "spiritual agnostic," but what you said here in this talk shows the importance of taking that next step, choosing to believe before the belief is forced upon oneself. I can now see how this happens, having witnessed "progress" since 2016, times in which first neoliberal political dogma and then corporate science were twisted into belief systems by elites who thought they were beyond religion. Thank you for your beautiful words.
@@carlf2842 The animals on the surface of this planet, and their prevails and consequences while alive, are not of great significance in the vastness of the cosmos.
@sdrawkcabUK yes. I would feel that physical action most, you would assess the consequences of your action, family and people who witnessed the action would experience some effect. But the further away out there in the cosmos would not be impacted... Am I missing your point?0
@@carlf2842 " I doubt the animals in question see it that way." . . . No of course that is valid at a minute scale immediate to the space where we or any fellow creature exists. Just as there may be myriad life supporting planets millions of light years away. And we pay no mind to what happens to those inhabitants. We don't even pay much mind to what happens to animals or people hundreds or thousands of miles away from us. We don't pay mind to the plight of small insects under our feet when we walk in a meadow or forest. My point was that what seems like the entire world to an individual creature is a very negligible for observers at most other scales in the universe. You needn't punch anybody in the face over this.
It is so heart breaking that as the world talks never endingly about 'the environment' they are destroying every last bit of nature they can find including our human nature
Sure is ''heart breaking'' but not unexpected. When the Greens started in the 70's it was made clear the only 'solution' was to halt population growth. Sadly people like breeding and no UK governments were prepared to penalise people who had more than 1/2 children!
And when God truly finds us, Christianity is just another story to tell, in bemused and happy wonderment at the unlikely (though inevitable) meeting. "Ha! Do you remember how we got here? Wow!"
It is partly, or even substantially, due to Unherd that Paul Kingsnorth has emerged as one of the most interesting and important thinkers of our time. This brief but bracing talk is yet another example of why he is so important.
In the years 600-200 BC in China, there was chaos and bloody battles....and the golden age for philosophy. They call it the Hundered schools of thought. Confucianism, Taoism and many other ways of thinking (believing) emerged.
Great speech! I also came late in life to the Orthodox Church. Paul is right that there are things in Orthodoxy that used to be part of the common culture of Christians that have got lost along the way in other Christian sects.
It's been too long since someone shook up my expectations so beautifully. It is a wonderful change to be intellectually challenged rather than having my cortisol levels tweaked.
"Once you reject God, you are fated to try and replace him." That really hit me. Yes, our anchor is crumbling; our centre-point. I watch myself struggle between sitting with that mystery that is quite clearly beyond me and all living things, and being enthralled with this technologically driven world. But I feel a deep undercurrent of Divine invitation emerging. This is being felt by many. What a fascinating time to be alive.
Wonderful wonderful thank you Paul for preaching the Gospel. Jesus Christ is alive (physically) and seated at the right hand of God, and we must choose between Him and the Devil. (I am not being pious, I mean this literally.)
This is probably one of the best talks I’ve heard on this topic. A very insightful analysis of the current situation. Especially the comment about it being time to choose your religion
Amazing talk. One quote that resonated with me was his comparison of the biblical trinity to the “modern trinity” of reason, science and technology. Reason is logos, and logos is Jesus Christ (John 1:1). Materialists have taken to worshipping the creation instead of the creator (Romans 1:25). We’re coming to the end of the road. I hope his message finds good soil.
As someone who went from total hedonism and atheism to a great respect for religion and a conservative inclination, this is precisely one of the big questions that I was pondering.
I don't know what you mean by "hedonism and atheism". Not believing that there is evidence to justify a belief in God does not make one a hedonist. If by hedonism you mean an inability to control your petty appetites. I am not religious. But I have always led a measured and thoughtful existence. Not shallow and craving pleasure. It is sometimes the Christians and religious that I meet who seem remarkably shallow. And in many cases weak of mind.
@@endoalley680 Five minutes on social media is enough to see that while you are right that some who claim to be people of faith are shallow many are those with little more than disdain for people of faith who are complete and utter deadbeats that are philosophically empty. The most morally and intellectually vacuous people I have encountered in my nearly fifty years have been those who believe they're clever by virtue of their hating and ridiculing people of faith.
@@endoalley680 Also: "weak of mind"? The religious fervor with which people believe in the infallibility of their own dogma-politically speaking-shows a weakness of mind greater than that of the most fanatical and moronic of religious people. You need to pull your head out of your arse.
Same here. I take some issues with his apparent content for free speech (perhaps due to his more Orthodox views) but nevertheless I found him very interesting and agreed on the critics towards the modern trinity of reason, science and technology (even though I myself come from STEM, an area where people tend to be atheist and progressive).
@@endoalley680 With hedonism I mean that pleasure is your main goal in life. I'm not concluding people who claim to be religious are on average less shallow. Only that I personally was very shallow, and that was very much tied to my overall atheistic world view.
Have discovered Paul Kingsnorth recently, love what he has to say. He's making concrete for me the swirl of thoughts and feelings I have about our contemporary western world. The word that has kept coming to my mind as I read of the latest technological achievments and ideologies is hubris - something the gods take a dim view of and are quick to act against.
Thank you for articulating this Paul Kingsnorth! I've been unable to get my head around this for a decade or more. The realisation of the need for religion is so important, and the lack of conscious religion is key to understanding the problems of our age. Problems that *seem* to be accelerating... Based on the symbols pumped into my brain from the available media.
Wow. Amazing talk. I became aware of PK maybe 6 years ago and found him to be an interesting thinker. How wonderful to hear that his curiosity has led him all the way to Orthodox Christianity. I am also a convert - a revert technically - to Christianity - and what's more, Catholic Christianity. So I really get his quip about being unhappy about that initially. But what a great talk. Thank you.
I am a veteran of religious enquiry and philosophical speculation .I loved this . Everything about this man is seeped in humility and understanding . Clearly you have studied much cos very few know of Guenons the "reign of quantity " .That genius and lover of God .Thank you so much . I feel steeled for the ordeals ahead
Yes, at 1:46 this *_is_* what is there left to conserve, and that *_is_* the reason we were sent into the world, to preserve the human spirit in the difficult times to come. And to do that, God has sent a New Message into the world, a message of a thousand teachings. It's called - _The New Message from God_ and it contains the preparation for what we are here to do in the years ahead. God bless!
As someone having come back to Christianity a few years back, I see and agree with a lot of things with what Paul is attempting to describe. The only thing there has been and ever will be, is to repent and trust in our Savior Jesus Christ. May God have mercy on us sinners, and let us pray, and continue building a relationship with our Lord so we can receive his goodness and wisdom, while we are still here, and prepare for our place in eternal Heaven.
This was truly eye opening, but Paul, whose writing I love, thinks that the battle is lost. Read the poem the combat by Edwin Muir. Just because the loudest voices say they have won, doesn’t make it so!
This was one of the best talks I have heard in a very long time. His clarion thoughts make so much sense in this day of chaotic thoughts. There is sanity & has a name - God. God is many “I am’s” & I’m sure I Am sanity is true.
Listened to the whole talk and really enjoyed it. Thanks! The issue I am having is the pushing of this transhumanist agenda. As an mechanical engineer I just want to design and built beautiful things with my bare hands. Enjoy the old crafts and teach that to next/future generations.
Cheering to read this..pass on the old crafts ...and some fundamental attitudes of honesty, curtesy, responsibility, respect , honor..... A SOLID BASE FOR A RE.START.
Yoram Hazony’s The Virtue Of Nationalism, is an extremely important contribution to this question of conservatism. Dichotomies have their ‘if you’re not with us, you’re against us’ dangers and it is with that in mind that I quoted Hazony: “I do not suppose that the case for nationalism is unequivocal. Considerations can be mustered in favor of each of these theories. But what cannot be done without obfuscation is to avoid choosing between the two positions: Either you support, in principle, the ideal of an international government or regime that imposes its will on subject nations when its officials regard this as necessary; or you believe that nations should be free to set their own course in the absence of such an international government or regime.” If that’s true we would do well to familiarise ourselves with his important thesis; Hazony brilliantly lays out the principles of the political order of independent national states.
Like the Prophets in Biblical times - brutal message for brutal times! Paul makes no compromises for the faint-hearted, the snowflakes and the patching-up advocates. The warrior's stance for this battle is, of course, its paradox.
Thank you Paul - you reframed the word 'religion' for me which I've avoided for decades. Realise I've always been 'religious' in the sense of the sacredness of life. Have shared!
Powerful talk on what is indeed happening, where things are headed, and the powerful consequences of what people think is true and reality, also inescapable religious faith and creeds.
Seems I'll be a dissident in the comments. I LOVE Paul Kingsnorth - his wisdom and am grateful for him. But being an atheist I can attest that one doesn't need religion to revel in nature or to feel a rolling grief at what humanity is doing blindly to itself. I like the spirit of what he's saying; we've lost out way in the most profound sense. I'm glad religion is a good filter to see all this and interpret it for some. But I think the more central core of our disease, is a loss of connection to nature and reality. Some conflate that loss with a loss of religion. But thankfully, one can see all the same phenomena he alludes to by just being a spiritual person. Being an atheist doesn't preclude being kind, being grateful, crediting grace for all that we experience, etc. In other words, there are may ways of viewing the current breakdown of civilization that we're currently facing without a religious filter. Peace
@@gilespotter8274"If I have to believe in God without evidence..." God doesn't FORCE you to believe in Him at all; that's His gift to you - free will. It's YOUR CHOICE that matters, and God has clearly warned you where each choice leads, lest you have an excuse. The scientific, mathematical, and logical evidence for an Intelligent Designer is overwhelming. Science, mathematics, and logic DOESN'T support the Atheistic world view. Anyone who believes it does clearly doesn't understand science, mathematics, and logic OR does, but chooses to bury their head in the sand - ever hopeful they're right, and when they die they'll be no more and, so, who cares. It's YOUR CHOICE to believe in the mathematical improbability of a naturalistic origin for our Universe, the fine tuning of our Universe (it's not 'finely tuned', it's PERFECTLY tuned), and abiogenesis (the origin of life). When the stochastic probability of all the above is ZERO, it takes faith in secular science (aka as 'balls of steel') to believe there's no God.
@ianshand6094 some of us rational beings cannot make the leap of faith without evidence. If God is omnipotent & benevolent then our world doesn't reflect that, so forgive our incredulity
Yeah he makes a false dichotomy at the end between religion and complete enslavement to the technological machine. There are many many many other choices and paths. It seems like since he became Christian, that religion is the only thing he can see.
WOW ! SO TRUE....EVERY BIT OF IT....THANK YOU FOR THIS GIFT OF TRUTH ! One way or another we will come back to this, because it is the TRUTH.....which of course cannot die.....because TRUTH is eternal! All we have done is try to bury it....very deeply, but earthquakes, volcanos, disasters have a way of bringing buried truth out into the light.....may we unbury the TRUTH soon...to halt our self destruction !
The Creation story comes from stories, mythologies, oral traditions and worldviews that predate Greek mythology. The Creation story in Genesis remembers that human beings once didn't wear clothes(!). Imagine how old the origins of that story must be. It must be tens of thousands of years old. It could be over a hundred thousand years old. When you start to understand the Creation story as a rich metaphorical version of real history, it's eye-opening. The Creation story remembers that we were once hunter-gatherers, and that agriculture made our lives much harder, and was a bad development. It recognizes that with knowledge comes morals, and that we are not ready for knowledge. The Creation story is fascinating, when we stop reading it as either meaningless mythology, or literal history.
@@the81kid I agree with all this, but in this talk "creation story" is being used in a broader sense of the core ideas, values and morals of Christianity on which the West is based. The talk is basically lamenting the decline in belief in those fundamental ideas leading to the problems we see in the West today. But the West isn't built just on those ideas. While they may be important, at least as important are the rational and philosophical ideas of ancient Greece.
The Greeks didn’t come to so much prominence in the West until Christianity started cracking up in the Renaissance, when the developing Humanism and then the Enlightenment needed more explicit models for how to live in a human-to-human social/urban world. Aristotle of course was crucial in the Middle Ages, but he was seen very much through (St Thomas’s) Christian lens. The first 1400-1500 years really are overwhelmingly Christian.
@@julianchase95 Depends when you start counting the "first" 1400-1500 years. I'd say christianity didn't amount to much of an influence on the West till about 300AD. There was a whole 800 year period *before* that when the West's intellectual ethos was basically Greek, either directly or via Rome. And then I'd say the West didn't really get going as an influential and coherent force until the Renaissance (and even before that people like Aquinas) brought back those Greek ideas into the mainstream again.
Interesting talk! One small thing: When God created human persons on the sixth day, it is correct that it is not stated that God saw that it was good. It is stated that God saw that it was very good: Genesis 1:31 "And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day."
Thank you. I get a sense there is many people who think the same but are disjointed and disconnected from what we considered from our youth - albeit beginning to erode even then - as being more clearly evident continuous and true. That certainty now feels dead and stolen from us as sure as sure can be. You see I too have come to realise everything is ethereal everything is spirit. I see now what we perceive as solidity is in essence of vibration a cosmic tune which differs only in frequency and intensity to give us - one of many consciousness on the earth - a pretence of understanding. I've like everyone here were indoctrinated to believe the mechanical scientific viewpoint that - as you said - the appreciation of the spirit/essential/ external being was confined to a place called a church for an hour on Sunday and that was it. So here we are, what are we facing? Well one, and the one I tend to now believe is we are reaching not only a technological singularity but also the hiatus of habitual hubris conceit genuine ignorance and stupidity which was 400 years in the making. Yes it seems we are now faced with a choice do we humbly accept we are just another facet in the unending mind of God or do we become transhuman and seek to imitate bast#rdise and ultimately destroy not only nature but God.
Well, it's quite the spectacle to witness folk trying to recreate nature, humanity, and even divinity in their own image, don't you think? But it's nothing new. We've had a couple of recent examples like Nazism and Communism. But here's what tickles me pink: Christianity held its ground and ultimately triumphed over the lot! How amazing, to ponder how faith can weather the ages and come out on top? "For our God hath blessed creation, Calling it good. I know What spirit with whom you blindly band Hath blessed destruction with his hand; Yet by God's death the stars shall stand And the small apples grow." G.K. Chesterton, 'The Ballad of the White Horse'
I figured this out as a teenager. Became a practicing Buddhist/Taoist. I'm glad to see that many of my hardcore "ATHEIST" friends have come around to appreciate what Paul describes. Honestly, I'm still surprised many people have not realized this. Not yet.
I used to say.. ten years ago..the children born today will not live to die remaining to be human as they were born to be, considering where things are heading.. and now it appears that can be said for our own prior generations :( Just horrific what these technocrats espouse in the world now. God help us all
Hope to meet Freddy because he asks the right questions that is why I watch all from San Francisco last time in London was honeymoon 1978. I 💕 England my ancestors arrived from Normandy with William still in Kent as my dad located in 1943.
Could we have a second part of this talk? Some of these ideas I have been saying to myself for years. And the world has changed enourmously over the last 3 years. It does seem very surreal and strange.
Everything is religious - or spiritual. So true. How much has the evil one done in my own life, through society, environmental changes, living my own separate life, trying to be my own God? ---- community living is one way needed to break out of this madness. (only in my opinion...) Let's get back to the garden...
@@gillps5130 Thank you, yes, God knows what each one of us needs to be His hand, His instrument to help others. I am just seeing how setting up people in loneliness is one of the main ways of the enemy to destroy and hurt and make people sick in heart, body and mind, to stop His love of loving one another.
I have a feeling this speech is actually mostly motivated by AI, but that the topic is sort of sandwiched in the middle of it. I don't blame him. For the topic or the sandiwching. I'm a fairly left-leaning software engineer that's worked in San Francisco and even so, I've kind of taken to praying a bit, tbh.
John Wesley, who founded the Methodist church during the Enlightenment, thought that religion and belief should be embodied. It wasn't something that just happened on a Sunday morning. Prayer was daily. He fasted weekly, though that wasn't necessarily the norm for his followers. Self-examination was regular.
Paul's recounting of the Genesis story reminded me how much vulgarity there is in scripture-how much commonness. Its emphasis on villains (the serpent, Satan, women) means it's always got its on eye on someone to blame. That's a direct appeal to the worst in us, our ever-ready resentment and vindictiveness. It's no surprise this kind of religion would have been popular before people learned to be embarrassed by their pettiness.
It is, indeed, an excellent diagnosis. My problem is what do we mean by the West. And the West, whatever this designates, was also founded by the Greco-Roman antiquity, which is not yet a part of Abrahamic foundational story. This is what bothers me. Is the only answer - to pray?
Why Do Some People Find Thrill-Seeking Activities Such as Bungee Jumping or Skydiving Exciting Rather Than Scary? Whether it is bungee jumping, skydiving, other extreme sports, thrill-seeking theme park rides and even scary movies, in such instances we want to feel the limit and how we breach it: that we reach a state beyond our capabilities. We then enjoy the state. There is pleasure in exercising a certain level of control over fear. The pleasure of having control over fear then becomes stronger than the instinct of fear that surfaces. When fear dominates us, it feels like it penetrates every cell of our bodies, all the way to our bones’ marrow. That is why the pleasure we experience when we feel a certain level of control over fear is very powerful. However, if we felt that our lives had a higher eternal purpose, and we set ourselves on a path to attain that purpose, we would then feel no need for these kinds of transient pleasures, no matter how strong they are. We would also then not fear anything because we would see that we are controlled by the upper force, which wishes solely to develop us in order to benefit us with its eternal and perfect quality of love, bestowal and connection.
Everything he says sounds so accurate but I still have some qualms. First off, what exactly is the solution? Is it to stop engineering & technological innovation? He says that we should pray but what exactly does prayer do? Does it change our attitudes, which in turn changes the way in which we build technology? Does prayer cause something to happen directly to the physical world? Or is there no solution at all, meaning that we are bound for the apocalypse, as outlined in the Book of Revelations? That is my problem with all of this talk - I simply don't understand what the solution is and what the solution actually means practically. Also why is it that we always portray technology as antithetical? Why is technology necessarily the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Is technology not the medium that he is using to spread his message and the tool that we are all using right now? How exactly does he view technology?
When and what was the golden age of Christendom that is worthy of conservation? If you’re orthodox or catholic, 1517 marks a shift in Christendom away from tradition and the transcendent order towards a more individualized and rational interpretation of the Bible. Did it only exist during the spread of the early church, or was it also present during the Roman Empire? I’m struggling to see what was worth conserving at a societal scale during any of these times - including our own. During your preferred period of Christendom, what aspects do you consider as good/worthy of conserving? Who were these aspects good for? Note that the further back you go in modern history in search of this mythical Christendom (and any other tradition), the more coercion/force was used to ensure traditional/theocratic social values. I feel that people are drawn to the ideology of progress / human transcendence because there has never been a mythical Christendom or any other traditional ideal past (or any contemporary society). The abject failures of history motivate continuous change and so we’re doomed to keep building on top of broken foundations. I agree that we should be praying but not for some mythical past. And I’m doubtful that we should be praying for the dominion of any one religious ideology. I don’t think that the pockets of human community that have been in transcendent communion with the divine have been isolated to any one religion/ideology.
As an agnostic/atheist, I found your talk to be the most convincing argument for religion. I have been questioning my beliefs (or lack thereof) for a few years. I had a literal and profound religious experience upon visiting St Mark's Basilica -- against my wishes, dragged there by a friend on a trip to Rome. Really wanted to avoid the place given my convictions against Catholicism. Describing my surprising experience would take hundreds of words, if any words would even do. Despite my understanding of the psychological need to attach ourselves to something higher than ourselves, and having read some of your writings on the topic, Paul, I have put off an actual conversion. I have remained a "spiritual agnostic," but what you said here in this talk shows the importance of taking that next step, choosing to believe before the belief is forced upon oneself. I can now see how this happens, having witnessed "progress" since 2016, times in which first neoliberal political dogma and then corporate science were twisted into belief systems by elites who thought they were beyond religion. Thank you for your beautiful words.
the one question isn't what is God, rather what are you(matter, matter/spirit). A godless world filled with animals has consequences.
@@carlf2842 The animals on the surface of this planet, and their prevails and consequences while alive, are not of great significance in the vastness of the cosmos.
@@endoalley680 I doubt the animals in question see it that way.
@sdrawkcabUK yes. I would feel that physical action most, you would assess the consequences of your action, family and people who witnessed the action would experience some effect. But the further away out there in the cosmos would not be impacted... Am I missing your point?0
@@carlf2842 " I doubt the animals in question see it that way." . . . No of course that is valid at a minute scale immediate to the space where we or any fellow creature exists. Just as there may be myriad life supporting planets millions of light years away. And we pay no mind to what happens to those inhabitants. We don't even pay much mind to what happens to animals or people hundreds or thousands of miles away from us. We don't pay mind to the plight of small insects under our feet when we walk in a meadow or forest. My point was that what seems like the entire world to an individual creature is a very negligible for observers at most other scales in the universe. You needn't punch anybody in the face over this.
It is so heart breaking that as the world talks never endingly about 'the environment' they are destroying every last bit of nature they can find including our human nature
Our 'nature' hasn't ever been defined. And yes 'environment' is often used as the excuse to do some odd stuff in the name of growth.
Isn’t that what the “unredeemed” narrative that he is talking about is kind of like though?
@@DJWESG1 Liberalism is a rejection of Nature.
@@neil5872 That us being unable to live in harmony with nature is our 'unredeemed' human nature? Is that what you mean?
Sure is ''heart breaking'' but not unexpected. When the Greens started in the 70's it was made clear the only 'solution' was to halt population growth. Sadly people like breeding and no UK governments were prepared to penalise people who had more than 1/2 children!
'Religion is man's search for God, Christianity is God's search for man' - Peter Kreeft.
🤫 Shshsh...Don't share the secret.
And when God truly finds us, Christianity is just another story to tell, in bemused and happy wonderment at the unlikely (though inevitable) meeting. "Ha! Do you remember how we got here? Wow!"
Not much of a God who creates create a religion to find a species that is all over the place.
@@thebeautifulones5436 The CCC teaches that we are summoned to a spiritual battle. It is up to you whether you accept. In hoc signo vinces +.
Thsts beautiful
It is partly, or even substantially, due to Unherd that Paul Kingsnorth has emerged as one of the most interesting and important thinkers of our time. This brief but bracing talk is yet another example of why he is so important.
In the years 600-200 BC in China, there was chaos and bloody battles....and the golden age for philosophy. They call it the Hundered schools of thought. Confucianism, Taoism and many other ways of thinking (believing) emerged.
A brilliant presentation! I found this via a presentation by Gavin Ashenden, who is excellent to listen to as well.
@@helendeacon7637 So did I 😊
Great speech! I also came late in life to the Orthodox Church. Paul is right that there are things in Orthodoxy that used to be part of the common culture of Christians that have got lost along the way in other Christian sects.
Reminding us of what actually is important. Thank you.
It's been too long since someone shook up my expectations so beautifully. It is a wonderful change to be intellectually challenged rather than having my cortisol levels tweaked.
"Once you reject God, you are fated to try and replace him." That really hit me. Yes, our anchor is crumbling; our centre-point. I watch myself struggle between sitting with that mystery that is quite clearly beyond me and all living things, and being enthralled with this technologically driven world. But I feel a deep undercurrent of Divine invitation emerging. This is being felt by many. What a fascinating time to be alive.
"divine invitation" ... what a beautiful way to describe this feeling that I too have experienced, and in my own way, tried to accept.
That's all in your mind...
@@francoiswilliams Probably
What a wonderful lecture! Thank you dear man for trying to bring this crazy world back to reality! ❤
WOW. A profound talk with deep meaning. Timely. Thank you! Namaste.
Wonderful wonderful thank you Paul for preaching the Gospel. Jesus Christ is alive (physically) and seated at the right hand of God, and we must choose between Him and the Devil. (I am not being pious, I mean this literally.)
Jesus is indeed, truly and magnificently, the visible image of the invisible God
This is probably one of the best talks I’ve heard on this topic. A very insightful analysis of the current situation. Especially the comment about it being time to choose your religion
"I must create a system or be enslaved by another man’s"
Amazing talk. One quote that resonated with me was his comparison of the biblical trinity to the “modern trinity” of reason, science and technology.
Reason is logos, and logos is Jesus Christ (John 1:1).
Materialists have taken to worshipping the creation instead of the creator (Romans 1:25).
We’re coming to the end of the road. I hope his message finds good soil.
Good presentation. Clever man!
Well said!
As someone who went from total hedonism and atheism to a great respect for religion and a conservative inclination, this is precisely one of the big questions that I was pondering.
I don't know what you mean by "hedonism and atheism". Not believing that there is evidence to justify a belief in God does not make one a hedonist. If by hedonism you mean an inability to control your petty appetites. I am not religious. But I have always led a measured and thoughtful existence. Not shallow and craving pleasure. It is sometimes the Christians and religious that I meet who seem remarkably shallow. And in many cases weak of mind.
@@endoalley680 Five minutes on social media is enough to see that while you are right that some who claim to be people of faith are shallow many are those with little more than disdain for people of faith who are complete and utter deadbeats that are philosophically empty.
The most morally and intellectually vacuous people I have encountered in my nearly fifty years have been those who believe they're clever by virtue of their hating and ridiculing people of faith.
@@endoalley680 Also: "weak of mind"? The religious fervor with which people believe in the infallibility of their own dogma-politically speaking-shows a weakness of mind greater than that of the most fanatical and moronic of religious people. You need to pull your head out of your arse.
Same here. I take some issues with his apparent content for free speech (perhaps due to his more Orthodox views) but nevertheless I found him very interesting and agreed on the critics towards the modern trinity of reason, science and technology (even though I myself come from STEM, an area where people tend to be atheist and progressive).
@@endoalley680 With hedonism I mean that pleasure is your main goal in life. I'm not concluding people who claim to be religious are on average less shallow. Only that I personally was very shallow, and that was very much tied to my overall atheistic world view.
Have discovered Paul Kingsnorth recently, love what he has to say. He's making concrete for me the swirl of thoughts and feelings I have about our contemporary western world. The word that has kept coming to my mind as I read of the latest technological achievments and ideologies is hubris - something the gods take a dim view of and are quick to act against.
Thank you for articulating this Paul Kingsnorth! I've been unable to get my head around this for a decade or more. The realisation of the need for religion is so important, and the lack of conscious religion is key to understanding the problems of our age. Problems that *seem* to be accelerating... Based on the symbols pumped into my brain from the available media.
Bless you sir for presenting these truths. May the peace of our Lord Jesus Yeshua be upon you always
🙏🙌🏻❤️
Wow. Amazing talk. I became aware of PK maybe 6 years ago and found him to be an interesting thinker. How wonderful to hear that his curiosity has led him all the way to Orthodox Christianity. I am also a convert - a revert technically - to Christianity - and what's more, Catholic Christianity. So I really get his quip about being unhappy about that initially. But what a great talk. Thank you.
I am a veteran of religious enquiry and philosophical speculation .I loved this . Everything about this man is seeped in humility and understanding . Clearly you have studied much cos very few know of Guenons the "reign of quantity " .That genius and lover of God .Thank you so much . I feel steeled for the ordeals ahead
Yes, at 1:46 this *_is_* what is there left to conserve, and that *_is_* the reason we were sent into the world, to preserve the human spirit in the difficult times to come. And to do that, God has sent a New Message into the world, a message of a thousand teachings. It's called - _The New Message from God_ and it contains the preparation for what we are here to do in the years ahead. God bless!
does it come in kindle edition?
Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle. In hoc signo vinces +.
Thanks for sharing!
there is no "new" message from God. for revelation from the true God, read the Bible. Lord bless
@@antoinettegabrielle3991 it's a bit arrogant to assume to know God's Will for all of humanity my friend. Think a bit about this.
As someone having come back to Christianity a few years back, I see and agree with a lot of things with what Paul is attempting to describe. The only thing there has been and ever will be, is to repent and trust in our Savior Jesus Christ. May God have mercy on us sinners, and let us pray, and continue building a relationship with our Lord so we can receive his goodness and wisdom, while we are still here, and prepare for our place in eternal Heaven.
I loved this and will listen to it again. I long for conversations like this with others as the time for trivial conversation has passed.
This was an incredibly well argued talk!!
Thank you, Unherd. Paul's insights are worth reflecting on.
This us the second I have heard you speak. Thank You for Shareing. We need people like you to share. Praying for your continueing Growth in the LORD!
Thank you. God Bless you.🙏
This was truly eye opening, but Paul, whose writing I love, thinks that the battle is lost. Read the poem the combat by Edwin Muir. Just because the loudest voices say they have won, doesn’t make it so!
He is a Christian. The battle is inevitably lost, and that loss leads to the greatest victory of all - the resurrection.
@@cozzwozzle I hadn’t thought of that!
@@cozzwozzle Tolkien's "The Long Defeat".
This was one of the best talks I have heard in a very long time. His clarion thoughts make so much sense in this day of chaotic thoughts. There is sanity & has a name - God. God is many “I am’s” & I’m sure I Am sanity is true.
Love this and love Paul Kingsnorth
Bless you Paul, for sharing the gospel truth !
"The great unsettling" - yes, that's exactly what's going on in the West.
Thank you Paul.
Listened to the whole talk and really enjoyed it. Thanks!
The issue I am having is the pushing of this transhumanist agenda. As an mechanical engineer I just want to design and built beautiful things with my bare hands. Enjoy the old crafts and teach that to next/future generations.
Cheering to read this..pass on the old crafts ...and some fundamental attitudes of honesty, curtesy, responsibility, respect , honor..... A SOLID BASE FOR A RE.START.
@@scarletpimpernel353 thank you! Appreciate that ❤️
Yoram Hazony’s The Virtue Of Nationalism, is an extremely important contribution to this question of conservatism. Dichotomies have their ‘if you’re not with us, you’re against us’ dangers and it is with that in mind that I quoted Hazony:
“I do not suppose that the case for nationalism is unequivocal. Considerations can be mustered in favor of each of these theories. But what cannot be done without obfuscation is to avoid choosing between the two positions: Either you support, in principle, the ideal of an international government or regime that imposes its will on subject nations when its officials regard this as necessary; or you believe that nations should be free to set their own course in the absence of such an international government or regime.”
If that’s true we would do well to familiarise ourselves with his important thesis; Hazony brilliantly lays out the principles of the political order of independent national states.
Thank you for having Paul here again! ❤
Charles Eisenstein and many other great thinker/writer are a treat.
I needed to hear this.
Brilliant speech
Wow. Powerful. And frightening.
Like the Prophets in Biblical times - brutal message for brutal times! Paul makes no compromises for the faint-hearted, the snowflakes and the patching-up advocates. The warrior's stance for this battle is, of course, its paradox.
Thank you!
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
Thank you Paul - you reframed the word 'religion' for me which I've avoided for decades. Realise I've always been 'religious' in the sense of the sacredness of life. Have shared!
Powerful talk on what is indeed happening, where things are headed, and the powerful consequences of what people think is true and reality, also inescapable religious faith and creeds.
Extremely impressive talk, I'd love to meet Mr. Kingsnorth.
Seems I'll be a dissident in the comments. I LOVE Paul Kingsnorth - his wisdom and am grateful for him. But being an atheist I can attest that one doesn't need religion to revel in nature or to feel a rolling grief at what humanity is doing blindly to itself. I like the spirit of what he's saying; we've lost out way in the most profound sense.
I'm glad religion is a good filter to see all this and interpret it for some. But I think the more central core of our disease, is a loss of connection to nature and reality. Some conflate that loss with a loss of religion. But thankfully, one can see all the same phenomena he alludes to by just being a spiritual person. Being an atheist doesn't preclude being kind, being grateful, crediting grace for all that we experience, etc. In other words, there are may ways of viewing the current breakdown of civilization that we're currently facing without a religious filter.
Peace
Totally with you. If I have to believe in a God without evidence then humanity is not worth saving.
Pantheism? The trouble with nature worship is that nature is manifestly amoral. Humans feel the need to believe in a moral force of some kind.
@@gilespotter8274"If I have to believe in God without evidence..."
God doesn't FORCE you to believe in Him at all; that's His gift to you - free will.
It's YOUR CHOICE that matters, and God has clearly warned you where each choice leads, lest you have an excuse.
The scientific, mathematical, and logical evidence for an Intelligent Designer is overwhelming.
Science, mathematics, and logic DOESN'T support the Atheistic world view.
Anyone who believes it does clearly doesn't understand science, mathematics, and logic OR does, but chooses to bury their head in the sand - ever hopeful they're right, and when they die they'll be no more and, so, who cares.
It's YOUR CHOICE to believe in the mathematical improbability of a naturalistic origin for our Universe, the fine tuning of our Universe (it's not 'finely tuned', it's PERFECTLY tuned), and abiogenesis (the origin of life).
When the stochastic probability of all the above is ZERO, it takes faith in secular science (aka as 'balls of steel') to believe there's no God.
@ianshand6094 some of us rational beings cannot make the leap of faith without evidence. If God is omnipotent & benevolent then our world doesn't reflect that, so forgive our incredulity
Yeah he makes a false dichotomy at the end between religion and complete enslavement to the technological machine. There are many many many other choices and paths. It seems like since he became Christian, that religion is the only thing he can see.
Fascinating talk. Wasn't what I expected, but well worth listening to!
Thank you.
Kingsnorth is delivering a sermon. A good man.
Very good summary of the modern dilemma. I've pondered at times if we might get a good old fashion revival in the West.
Alas, chaos first.. then feichimís (we'll see in Gaelic)
The first sane talk I’ve heard in a long time.
That was powerful.
I could listen to Paul Kingsnorth all day..
He seems like a nice enough fellow.
WOW ! SO TRUE....EVERY BIT OF IT....THANK YOU FOR THIS GIFT OF TRUTH ! One way or another we will come back to this, because it is the TRUTH.....which of course cannot die.....because TRUTH is eternal! All we have done is try to bury it....very deeply, but earthquakes, volcanos, disasters have a way of bringing buried truth out into the light.....may we unbury the TRUTH soon...to halt our self destruction !
Timely and succinct. Great speech.
Please have Jonathan Pageau on this channel.
Love this talk - so many ideas and so much sense !!??
Paul is so thought-provoking. I could listen to him all day. The mis-spelling of the last word of the subtitles adds weight to his argument.
Any origin story of the West which doesn't even mention the Greeks sounds quite silly.
The Creation story comes from stories, mythologies, oral traditions and worldviews that predate Greek mythology. The Creation story in Genesis remembers that human beings once didn't wear clothes(!). Imagine how old the origins of that story must be. It must be tens of thousands of years old. It could be over a hundred thousand years old. When you start to understand the Creation story as a rich metaphorical version of real history, it's eye-opening. The Creation story remembers that we were once hunter-gatherers, and that agriculture made our lives much harder, and was a bad development. It recognizes that with knowledge comes morals, and that we are not ready for knowledge. The Creation story is fascinating, when we stop reading it as either meaningless mythology, or literal history.
@@the81kid I agree with all this, but in this talk "creation story" is being used in a broader sense of the core ideas, values and morals of Christianity on which the West is based. The talk is basically lamenting the decline in belief in those fundamental ideas leading to the problems we see in the West today. But the West isn't built just on those ideas. While they may be important, at least as important are the rational and philosophical ideas of ancient Greece.
The Greeks didn’t come to so much prominence in the West until Christianity started cracking up in the Renaissance, when the developing Humanism and then the Enlightenment needed more explicit models for how to live in a human-to-human social/urban world. Aristotle of course was crucial in the Middle Ages, but he was seen very much through (St Thomas’s) Christian lens. The first 1400-1500 years really are overwhelmingly Christian.
@@julianchase95 Depends when you start counting the "first" 1400-1500 years. I'd say christianity didn't amount to much of an influence on the West till about 300AD. There was a whole 800 year period *before* that when the West's intellectual ethos was basically Greek, either directly or via Rome.
And then I'd say the West didn't really get going as an influential and coherent force until the Renaissance (and even before that people like Aquinas) brought back those Greek ideas into the mainstream again.
Thank you Paul for your talk 🙏
Interesting talk! One small thing: When God created human persons on the sixth day, it is correct that it is not stated that God saw that it was good. It is stated that God saw that it was very good: Genesis 1:31 "And God saw all the things that he had made, and they were very good. And the evening and morning were the sixth day."
This chap is very interesting. He is speaking the truth.
Thank you. I get a sense there is many people who think the same but are disjointed and disconnected from what we considered from our youth - albeit beginning to erode even then - as being more clearly evident continuous and true. That certainty now feels dead and stolen from us as sure as sure can be. You see I too have come to realise everything is ethereal everything is spirit. I see now what we perceive as solidity is in essence of vibration a cosmic tune which differs only in frequency and intensity to give us - one of many consciousness on the earth - a pretence of understanding. I've like everyone here were indoctrinated to believe the mechanical scientific viewpoint that - as you said - the appreciation of the spirit/essential/ external being was confined to a place called a church for an hour on Sunday and that was it. So here we are, what are we facing? Well one, and the one I tend to now believe is we are reaching not only a technological singularity but also the hiatus of habitual hubris conceit genuine ignorance and stupidity which was 400 years in the making. Yes it seems we are now faced with a choice do we humbly accept we are just another facet in the unending mind of God or do we become transhuman and seek to imitate bast#rdise and ultimately destroy not only nature but God.
We must choose, or the choice will be made for us..very sound . Thank you and blessings from Sydney Australia .
Loved the comments about the wonderful pace of Ireland. Strange that people didn't chuckle with him.
After a day pondering this topic, this is exactly what I needed to hear tonight.
The Reign of Quantity - wow that really resonated with me. I will give it a read.
Seems especially relevant given AIs ability to mass produce everything
The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times ... Rene Guenon
Well, it's quite the spectacle to witness folk trying to recreate nature, humanity, and even divinity in their own image, don't you think? But it's nothing new. We've had a couple of recent examples like Nazism and Communism. But here's what tickles me pink: Christianity held its ground and ultimately triumphed over the lot! How amazing, to ponder how faith can weather the ages and come out on top?
"For our God hath blessed creation,
Calling it good. I know
What spirit with whom you blindly band
Hath blessed destruction with his hand;
Yet by God's death the stars shall stand
And the small apples grow."
G.K. Chesterton, 'The Ballad of the White Horse'
You have become clearer, more handsome and well , glory to God
Pray, for miracles at this point.
Everything in Canada, has been flipped on its head: family, demographics, nationality, gender, currency value, truth, education, etc.
Yes, all we can do is pray, live our Christian belief and trust in God, he is in control.
Superb!
Amen Paul!
I figured this out as a teenager. Became a practicing Buddhist/Taoist. I'm glad to see that many of my hardcore "ATHEIST" friends have come around to appreciate what Paul describes. Honestly, I'm still surprised many people have not realized this. Not yet.
You're not alone but you/we are still a tiny minority.. the others seem to me to be indistinguishable from lemmings.
@@oftbanned101 Cattle and lemmings. Yes. Many aren't energetic enough to be like lemmings.
I used to say.. ten years ago..the children born today will not live to die remaining to be human as they were born to be, considering where things are heading..
and now it appears that can be said for our own prior generations :(
Just horrific what these technocrats espouse in the world now. God help us all
Children born today will also be living in a Muslim-majority UK by the time they're middle aged.
Our war is already won; Christ is risen ☦️🙏🏼☦️ and only the battles remain!
Excellent!
Excellent presentation, is it the same thoughts I've been mulling over for several years now.
Interesting, deep. Thank you.
Hope to meet Freddy because he asks the right questions that is why I watch all from San Francisco last time in London was honeymoon 1978. I 💕 England my ancestors arrived from Normandy with William still in Kent as my dad located in 1943.
“You’re gonna have to serve somebody/ It may be the devil or it may be the Lord/ But you’re gonna have to serve somebody”
Bob Dylan
Could we have a second part of this talk? Some of these ideas I have been saying to myself for years. And the world has changed enourmously over the last 3 years. It does seem very surreal and strange.
Everything is religious - or spiritual. So true. How much has the evil one done in my own life, through society, environmental changes, living my own separate life, trying to be my own God? ---- community living is one way needed to break out of this madness. (only in my opinion...) Let's get back to the garden...
The means to community should be made available but community is not for everyone, not the very good or the very bad.
@@gillps5130 Thank you, yes, God knows what each one of us needs to be His hand, His instrument to help others. I am just seeing how setting up people in loneliness is one of the main ways of the enemy to destroy and hurt and make people sick in heart, body and mind, to stop His love of loving one another.
Brilliant but frightening.
The Machine of Huxley, Wells,
Hogwash
I have a feeling this speech is actually mostly motivated by AI, but that the topic is sort of sandwiched in the middle of it. I don't blame him. For the topic or the sandiwching. I'm a fairly left-leaning software engineer that's worked in San Francisco and even so, I've kind of taken to praying a bit, tbh.
John Wesley, who founded the Methodist church during the Enlightenment, thought that religion and belief should be embodied. It wasn't something that just happened on a Sunday morning. Prayer was daily. He fasted weekly, though that wasn't necessarily the norm for his followers. Self-examination was regular.
Paul's recounting of the Genesis story reminded me how much vulgarity there is in scripture-how much commonness. Its emphasis on villains (the serpent, Satan, women) means it's always got its on eye on someone to blame. That's a direct appeal to the worst in us, our ever-ready resentment and vindictiveness. It's no surprise this kind of religion would have been popular before people learned to be embarrassed by their pettiness.
Excellent.
Paul Kingsnorth is a hale and hearty Anglican David Baddiel
I'm Orthodox actually, but apart from that it's an intriguing comparison.
Wow!
Glory to God
I choose Pastafarianism
No carbs!
Oooh, saucy 😂
It is, indeed, an excellent diagnosis. My problem is what do we mean by the West. And the West, whatever this designates, was also founded by the Greco-Roman antiquity, which is not yet a part of Abrahamic foundational story. This is what bothers me. Is the only answer - to pray?
Why Do Some People Find Thrill-Seeking Activities Such as Bungee Jumping or Skydiving Exciting Rather Than Scary?
Whether it is bungee jumping, skydiving, other extreme sports, thrill-seeking theme park rides and even scary movies, in such instances we want to feel the limit and how we breach it: that we reach a state beyond our capabilities.
We then enjoy the state. There is pleasure in exercising a certain level of control over fear.
The pleasure of having control over fear then becomes stronger than the instinct of fear that surfaces.
When fear dominates us, it feels like it penetrates every cell of our bodies, all the way to our bones’ marrow. That is why the pleasure we experience when we feel a certain level of control over fear is very powerful.
However, if we felt that our lives had a higher eternal purpose, and we set ourselves on a path to attain that purpose, we would then feel no need for these kinds of transient pleasures, no matter how strong they are.
We would also then not fear anything because we would see that we are controlled by the upper force, which wishes solely to develop us in order to benefit us with its eternal and perfect quality of love, bestowal and connection.
🙏🙏🙏
Basically all that's good in the world, has ultimately come from from Christianity
I hope, many people shall see that and find God's grace within them
brilliant
Everything he says sounds so accurate but I still have some qualms. First off, what exactly is the solution? Is it to stop engineering & technological innovation? He says that we should pray but what exactly does prayer do? Does it change our attitudes, which in turn changes the way in which we build technology? Does prayer cause something to happen directly to the physical world? Or is there no solution at all, meaning that we are bound for the apocalypse, as outlined in the Book of Revelations? That is my problem with all of this talk - I simply don't understand what the solution is and what the solution actually means practically.
Also why is it that we always portray technology as antithetical? Why is technology necessarily the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil? Is technology not the medium that he is using to spread his message and the tool that we are all using right now? How exactly does he view technology?
I’m dissapointed by the lack of genuine discussion going on in this comment section.
When and what was the golden age of Christendom that is worthy of conservation? If you’re orthodox or catholic, 1517 marks a shift in Christendom away from tradition and the transcendent order towards a more individualized and rational interpretation of the Bible.
Did it only exist during the spread of the early church, or was it also present during the Roman Empire? I’m struggling to see what was worth conserving at a societal scale during any of these times - including our own. During your preferred period of Christendom, what aspects do you consider as good/worthy of conserving? Who were these aspects good for? Note that the further back you go in modern history in search of this mythical Christendom (and any other tradition), the more coercion/force was used to ensure traditional/theocratic social values.
I feel that people are drawn to the ideology of progress / human transcendence because there has never been a mythical Christendom or any other traditional ideal past (or any contemporary society). The abject failures of history motivate continuous change and so we’re doomed to keep building on top of broken foundations. I agree that we should be praying but not for some mythical past. And I’m doubtful that we should be praying for the dominion of any one religious ideology. I don’t think that the pockets of human community that have been in transcendent communion with the divine have been isolated to any one religion/ideology.