@@7michaelwright The joker has been asked this question a variety of ways, and he always comes back with "No, bitch, you complete me. This a shotgun wedding MFer" and then he proceeds to kill SOMEONE ELSE
That brings up a question - If Joker WAS in the CW DC shows, how would Flash, Superman, Supergirl, Black lighting, and Batwoman react to him and his chaotic madness? Sorry, I just think it's an interesting question to think about
I mean Flash CW has always been pg13 saturday morning cartoon. So its obvious that main villain would be like typical saturday morning cartoon villain. While he has motivation its very petty......
@@TaigaXsenpai his reason isn’t much better in the comics the reverse flash is basically a super fan of flash and when he saw Barry hanging out with someone else he freaks the fuck out so it’s damn near the same motivation as the source
I love how perfectly petty this motivation is, because i genuinely think if Thawne had a reasonable motivation it would have damaged his character. This shows you just how lost he is, it shows how no matter how many villains the flash can change Thawne will never, ever be reachable.
@@cunningsmile4166 “stole your moment” is the very problem. He was so upset that he lost the fame from saving people he didn’t even think, “let me go save someone else”. He literally went back in time ruin the guys life. He feels smited over something that barely happened
It’s really cool how Barry’s interactions with Thawne show how he’s grown as a character over the show; compare this to when he talked to Thawne in the season 1 finale. He’s a lot less emotional and seems to have completely lost his fear of him. He doesn’t even bring up Thawne killing his mother, he’s just focused on the situation at hand.
That’s what I said! At first, Barry hated Thawne and always acted on emotion. Hell, he almost beat him to death in Season 2. Now he’s matured and it shows here.
Spiderman asked a doctor why is he turning people imto dinasours instead of just curing cancer and he said he didnt want to cure cancer he just wants to turn people into dinosaurios
Pointing this out, in the comics thawne hated flash cause he realise he is a nobody to barry. He admired the flash in the future and wanted to become him, then after having a reality check by barry, thawne sought out to show barry how he changed only to realise he meant nothing to barry and what broke him was finding out that he is the flash’s greatest enemy, the whole reason as to why thawne fought barry was that it was the only way he could spend time with his idol
Benedict D’Souza wan’t more on reset, more on he was locked in time. Since after flash point eobard wasn’t the reverse flash cause he didn’t exist, he was outside the timeline when flash point happened so since everyone’s backstory and character got changed the reverse flash as eobard wouldn’t exist
EasterBurn well no cause right after thawne found out his destiny, i mean imagine wanting to be a hero, meeting your idol and changing your ways to be a hero, going back in time to show your idol you changed only to realise you don’t matter to him and find out your suppose to be your idols greatest enemy
I like how Thawne’s origin is somewhat similar to the comics. In the comics he created accidents that would put people in danger in order for him to save them and make himself look like the hero. But once Barry found out Thawne was doing so he put an end to the fake heroic acts. Glad the writers were able to make Thawne’s origin similar as everyone has been commenting for years that they’ve never gone over his origins (which is true)
They did already referenced his origin with Matt's Reverse Flash. He replicate the incident that gave Barry speed & "This ability to travel through time revealed the truth"
you can tell Grant Gustin is actually enjoying this scene with his acting, like he finally gets to do what he and a lot of the fans wanted, some PROPER story writing.
Dude, they have been doing actually fucking well for once. What? Armageddon was supposed to be a shitty crossover, yet, the writings been at its peak. Actual stakes. Good dialogue. Good shot variety, magnificent lighting. A decent villian.
@X-777 I also liked when Barry gained enhanced intellectual abilities( which he always should have had) and turned into an apathetic cunning speedster. However, they undid that one faster then Barry himself.
@@kouroshm1 He already was a genius, that was established in the beginning. Sure, he shouldn't be THAT OP, but having him being outbrained is quite dumb. IQ is how fast you can learn right, his speedster abilities would amplify that by 1000. One day Cisco is smarter, after a few hours he would surpass him. That shouldn't happen, but with competent writing it would. Same with Batman, he shouldn't be as intelligent. Still, honestly I'm fine with how they don't do that. Cyborg should also be smarter then Batman, due to being ingrained with an AI brain that can function thousands of times faster then humans.
I actually love this motivation. Not every villain needs to be some grand visionary or some well-intended extremist or some agent of chaos who wants to destroy everything for kicks. There are people who are just so petty, insecure, and narrow-minded that they take any minor slight as reason enough to go off the deep end. They don't need a tragic backstory or the be the product of some failed system. It actually makes for a villain who is just as interesting because everything they do is their own choice. There's no "if only X happened, then he wouldn't be a villain" here. No, even if Barry went back and somehow allowed Thawne's presentation go off the way he wanted it, Thawne would STILL find some offense or take some comment Barry said the wrong way and we'd be back to where we are now. "Don't you have anything else to do?" Is always the perfect response to this kind of villain.
@@giosy0072 - Considering how fragile Thawne’s ego apparently is, he’d most likely have ended up as some sort of power-hungry despot within the first month or so of his “heroic” debut.
@@Datkginger Lex Luthor actually sees Superman as a threat to humanity, while Thawne’s entire motivation is literally just a petty fanboy overreacting to his idol saving people he wanted to save. Thawne literally killed his mother just because Barry outshone him in one moment
@@johnkane3240 His suit is great imo. He looks like he's in his prime, and he looks badass same with Barry without the cowl. Same with Bruce Wayne, Hero's usually look better without the mask.
God I love this scene, going back all those seasons to answer a question we never got a fully clear answer too, and a satisfying one that makes Thawne petty and crazy, and the growth since the last time they had a conversation like this were Barry doesn’t even mention his mom showing he’s grown. Just 👌
We did get an answer, and it was even more petty and crazy than this. Barry has asked Thawne why he hates him before and he said became The Flash's enemy because he went back and found out that he becomes the Flash's enemy. In other words, Thawne is the Flash's enemy because he's the Flash's enemy.
@@arsyam_7 more like never meet your fans, iirc thawn was putting people into danger in order to save them. When flash caught him he promised to be an actual hero if flash kept his secret but flash refused. Considering Thawns personality he was unlikely to follow through on his promise, though arguably had flash agreed Thawn would not try to mess with him. Though op might be referring to a different origin I'm not as familiar with
If only Matt would have played Thawne again and did this. But at least this truly gives us the true main reason why he hates Barry and ended up killing his mother cause he ruined his chance to be like him
Now that they have mentioned how they first met, they HAVE TO do it in the near future before the show ends, and for that they'll have to use Matt. Hopefully it happens during this season or at least the next one.
@@ii_Urameshi yes it is possible, they could have just had this one die or something then another on come in as Matt. Or just have this one regain his normal body look
I agree with everyone that Matt Lescher Reverse Flash would have been cooler. I love Tom Cavanagh and season 1 potrayal of RF, but Matt shows the psychopathy more. "NOW WHO'S THE VILLIAN FLASH?"
This is basically a watered down version of Thawne's origin in the comics, but it's still kind of interesting. In the comics, Thawne's origin invokes sympathy for him, but here, like Barry said, he's just a sociopath from the beginning. For context, in the comics, Thawne was an orphan, and he grew up feeling that the only good thing he had in his life was The Flash. The Flash was the hero he looked up to and the person he aspired to be someday. He manages to find a time capsule with The Flash's costume, which he uses to give himself powers (he does this by analyzing the residual amounts of Speed Force energy on the suit). After recreating the accident that turned Barry into The Flash and becoming a speedster, Thawne decides that he wanted to _be_ The Flash of the 25th century. The problem is, by the 25th century, crime had all but been eradicated. So instead, Thawne created "opportunities" for him to be a hero by putting people in danger, then saving them. Thawne honestly believed that he was honoring The Flash's legacy by doing this, not realizing how messed up it was. The people, not realizing that Thawne was one causing the danger, embraced him as The Flash of the 25th century. Cut to one day when The Flash (Barry Allen) himself time travels to the 25th century where Thawne lives, while testing the limits of his powers with regards to time travel (the tests are done using the Cosmic Treadmill). Barry had wanted to visit the future, since he really like Science Fiction (it was something he had in common with his mother). Thawne meets Barry and introduces himself as his biggest fan. I should note that, by this point, Barry hasn't solved his mother's murder case and doesn't know who really killed her. Upon meeting Thawne, Barry is honored and pretty much instantly acknowledges Thawne as The Flash of this time period, which Thawne sees as a blessing. Barry even offers to teach Thawne the ropes of how to use his powers to save people. This was everything Thawne had ever wanted and more. The two become good friends within the span of a single day. There's a moment where Thawne is trying to express his gratitude towards Barry, and trying to tell him that he wishes they had gotten to spend more time together, but can't seem to find the right words. Barry then puts the words together for him, saying "Every second is a gift." Thawne immediately replies, "That's it. Exactly." This will be important later on. As for Thawne, this was the happiest day of his life. To him, Barry Allen wasn't just a hero, but a true friend. Barry and Thawne continue to save people, with Barry not knowing that Thawne himself was the one creating dangerous situations for them to save people from. Unfortunately for Thawne, Barry catches on to what Thawne was doing and the two have a falling out. Barry sends Thawne to prison for all the disasters he caused. Thawne promises to get better and become the kind of hero that he'd be proud of. He realizes that what he'd done was wrong and dedicates his life to helping others. Thawne does his time in prison, gets therapy, and even teaches classes for the other inmates. He furthers his education during this time, to the level of a professor (specializing in history, particularly with regards to The Flash). He eventually convinces the authorities that he could be a more productive member of society as an educator. He starts to work at The Flash Museum as a professor, teaching people about The Flash's history. By this point, Thawne is no longer mentally ill and is actually a decent, normal person with a good moral compass. He works his way up the ladder and eventually becomes curator of The Flash Museum. It's around this time that Thawne decides that he's been rehabilitated enough to go see Barry again, in hopes of mending their friendship. Thawne makes a new costume that isn't red, because he feels that he hasn't _earned_ the right to call himself The Flash again. Instead, he wears a yellow costume, as that's what The Flash's _partners_ all wore (referring to the Kid Flash costume). He then travels back in time to the 21st century. One day, Barry's at the graduation ceremony of his nephew (Wally West) and gives Wally a watch as a gift. The watch has the phrase "Every second is a gift" engraved on its backside, which Barry tells Wally as he gives him the gift. Thawne sees this takes place and comes to the conclusion that Barry was a fake, superficial person, who says that line to everyone. He concludes that their friendship had been a complete lie. Thawne feels as if he'd been betrayed by his hero and runs back to the 25th century, completely devastated by what he'd just discovered. Barry had been the only real friend that Thawne ever had, only for Thawne to realize that Barry didn't actually care about him. He succumbs to despair and decides that he's going to spend the rest of his life making Barry feel just as broken as he felt. The next time Thawne meets Barry, he calls himself The Reverse-Flash, as he intends to be remembered as The Flash's greatest enemy.
Definitely quotable❤ For anyone who has been bullied or underestimated(Thawne sees Barry as a bully in his deluded worldview) the trauma leads them to go out of their way to prove their oppressors wrong. They literally do what Thawne says here, turning their bitterness, frustration, rage, into a committed cause, or self-destruct. Thawne definitely needs therapy to channel his emotions in a healthier way😂
He's great as both characters, but his overuse has confused me at times. it really wouldn't help the non comics fan anyway. "I thought he was the bad, now he's the good guy." "No, He's Harrison Welles now" "Wasn't he Eobard Thawne before?" "You have to pay attention."
I think Thawn still does admire Berry in a way, and the reason I think that is because even though he hates Barry, you got to remember who used to help Barry in season 1, and admitted that you could kill him if you really wanted to but he wants to see him grow, he could have come up with a different plan to go home and I think that's the reason she still does what he does is so that he can have a reason to be connected to a The Flash in any way shape or form not out of hatred, put out of admiration, keep in mind though he is a little bit crazy, considering that the only way he knows how to still be connected with the Flash, is to be the man that is his arch-nemesis there is a fine line between love and hate and I think that was the area between that line that's were Thawn thrives, it differs from moment to moment
I have a strong feeling, Thawne is leaving A LOT of details behind. Just a theory, which I hope the CW develops towards the end of the season: Thawne was going to come out as the speedster who saved the people whom HE HIMSELF got in danger just to look like a hero. Then he gets faster, breaks space-time continuum to arrive at the Flash museum and realizes he is meant to become the Flash's biggest and pettiest villain lol
@@barzfordayslol7343 ah now that makes more sense. Funny you don't see villains like that anymore. Wannabe heroes that cause disasters only to correct them to make themselves look good. Thawne was one of those types. People like that in any form of media are like Unicorns these days.
Definitely missing some details here. In some version of the origin, Thawne learned about him through research, he copied the powers, he met Flash, they worked together, then he found out he was going to be the villain and it broke him. Some of this was already explained in season 2. Barry stealing Thawne's "moment" sounds like a PART of a larger origin.
THANK YOU. thats what i thought too when watching this scene, this was basically in season 2 zoom arc there’s definitely more to it and probably towards the end of season may be explained
In the original comics , Thawne time-traveled and does the villain thing in Flash timeline but the thing is The Flash is not Barry we're seeing but Redhead Wally West carrying the mantle as The Flash . Wally know that Barry died in Crisis On Infinite Earth (Running till he's evaporated to death counter-reacting Anti-Monitor machine whatnot) and Thawne is fighting against the most fastest speedster Redhead Wally , I think he hate the wrong guy haha xD .
Now that they have mentioned how they first met, they HAVE TO do it in the near future before the show ends, and for that they'll have to use Matt. Hopefully it happens during this season or at least the next one.
This scene is just amazing in my opinion finding out why reverse flash hates him and him telling Barry if he saves him he’ll keep trying to find ways to kill him with a smile on his face knowing there’s a good chance Barry will still save him
Did anyone else find it extremely odd how Joe reacted to their decision on thus matter? He's the same guy that saw Thawte and immediately let off 3 round no questions asked but when Barry wanted to choose not to save him (which was very thoroughly justified) he throws a fit and says he's going to lose him as family? That scene blew my mind
Now, It makes total sense. Even though Thawne tried to be a hero, he is still in the Flash's shadows for the rest of his life, so he come up in a solution with a vengeance....
@@VDOTU5 I wanna say Circe, but I'm not sure about that. Harley Quinn? Not really anymore tbh. Flashpoint Joker? Hmm... We know who she is and that takes away the mystery of her origin. Poison Ivy?... A little but in a sense, she's just an ecoterrorist. Honestly i can't really say tbh. Can't really think of any female villains that can stand with all those male villains in terms of how complicated they are. But i guess everyone knows Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy, so there's that at least.
I think I know how their story will end. Like in the comics, Barry might change the timeline so Thawne never discovered and got his speed and he would go on to be a Flash Museum curator. That would be very nice.
@@shevonmalan4465 No I'm saying, it would be nice if barry goes to the 25th century and stop Thawne from discovering The Speed force and creating The Negative Speed force, Thawne would never become The Reverse Flash and would live a happy life. But clearly, that did not happen.
@@shevonmalan4465 there was a comic book issue that The current Flash went to the 25th Century and stop the other flash who went in that time and prevented Thwane to find the flash costume which once he didn’t that timeline will forever change where Thwane never became the Reverse-Flash and work as museum tour guide instead
That would require somehow Eddie to be resurrected and the timeline return back to its original season 1 timeline. Because ever since that season every single RF we've seen has been a paradox, meaning there is no Thawne of the future.
1:46 the day I saw this I automatically remembered Batman begins where "I won't kill you, but I don't HAVE to save you". Just like Thawne doesn't HAVE to mess with Barry. That's his own choice. Also EVERYTIME Thawne is saved, innocents die. I'll be damned if I have that on my conscience.
This ties to what the younger Thawne told Barry on S2 Being bested and "humiliated" by his hero sent him on a path of toxic and constant improvement, fueled by rage and eventually learning/accepting that he was destined to be a villain
Eobard was written so brilliantly in the first season, coded really well as Barry's abusive father. As portrayed in season one, Thawne is a sociopathic narcissist who self actualizes by asserting control over the lives of those he professes to care about, leveraging power over them through both his speed and their love for him. Fantastically written not only as a villain who hates the hero, but as an abuser who is toxically dependent on his victim. It's very similar to Joker and Batman's toxic relationship, but with a more parental dynamic. Even more screwed up is that Thawne has traveled through time to become the architect of the defining moments of Barry's life. In season one, he and team flash are codependent, the perfect environment for him to self actualize as the puppetmaster of the season. Nowhere is this better expressed than in his final line: *"I've controlled your life for so long, Barry. How will you get along without me?"* Thawne's narcissistic need to control their lives ended with him being erased from their lives altogether. It was a *perfect* ending. But, if they were going to bring him back, they could have done more with this theme. As team Flash outgrows Thawne throughout the show, it should expose what a miserable and pathetic person he is - just like all abusers. That's why he doesn't actually want to "go home" as he liked to claim in the first season. Because abusers don't know how to be happy. And rather than seek rehabilitation, Thawne chases the closest thing to love and happiness he can understand: controlling Barry's life. This show reinterpreted the Reverse Flash as Barry's abusive father, and it was absolutely *brilliant.* Easily the best written villain in any of the CW shows, and frankly most superhero media in general. And now, they are writing him as a generic arch nemesis who hates Barry because he got jealous that Barry was more popular. It's depressing, man.
I think they do this. In the end of season 7, Barry finally becomes faster than him. Once that happens, Thawne is no longer this confident and scheming villain, he becomes petty, and desperate; due to how Barry is faster, and Thawne can control him anymore. In an attempt to take that control back, Thawne uses his superior knowledge of being a speedster and being able to manipulate the timeline to get what he wants and creates the Reverse Flashpoint change Barry's and his life to make Barry the villain. He once again fails, and he loses that control. Then he goes to Barry for help to show that he still has control (Thawne knows that he can still get Barry to help him even after everything Thawne has done to Barry.) In the end of Armageddon, Barry takes his speed (the only thing he knows can still control Barry even if Barry is Faster (AKA how he used it to create Armageddon).) And once loses his speed and has no other way to control and ruin Barry's life, he has a temper tantrum and becomes completely pathetic I know that a lot of Fanboys hated that, but I really like how the end of season 7 and Armageddon showed how, in reality, Thawne is pathetic and only has the facade of being a confident and scheming villain when he has control over Barry.
This is probably the best they’ve ever done with explaining Reverse-Flash’s motives and origin. Usually I would say it’s a stupid reason to hate someone to that extent, and it is, but here Barry actually acknowledges that. He acknowledges that only a sociopath would react like that for something so small, and that’s what I like. It just shows how crazy and obsessive Thawne actually is.
For those who don't read the comics. Thawne was Barry's biggest fan in the 25th century, so much so he gave himself superspeed and plastic surgery to make him just like his hero. He went back in time to meet the Flash, maybe even become his partner, but time travel disoriented him. He learned that Barry was destined to kill the Reverse Flash and while unknown in the 25th century, the 20th century knew the Reverse Flash was Eobard Thawne. He snapped...even believing himself to be Barry for a bit, before he was stopped by Wally West, the current Flash at the time. He tricked Thawne into going back to where he came from....not conscious of what he went through, but with a subconcious memory that the Flash will kill him and all the hate that goes with it His origin has been rewritten a couple of times since then, but I think this was such a classic origin and does the best of explaining Thawnes hatred
I'm guessing we're not gonna touch on the part of his origin where he went back, but went to the time when Barry was dead and Wally was Flash, only to then find out that not only does he become his idol's worst enemy, but finds out Barry kills him at some point, and then ends up fighting with Wally.
Thanwe is definitely leaving out more than a few details. In the comics, Thawne staged crimes to make himself look like a hero. Barry saw this and tried to set Thawne straight when he went into the future. When you think about it, he cares about looking like the hero more than anything. He set himself up as Harrison Wells to set things up while looking like an inspirational scientist when in truth he ruined more lives than we probably know. When he used the Spear of Destiny, he used it to also be the boss of Star Labs once again and be responsible for making the world great when in reality, he made it worse in the first place. He looked like an atoning villain on Death Row when he manipulated Barry's daughter, Nora, to make a serial killer emerge earlier, escape death row, have Nora wiped out of existence, and have Crisis come earlier. His recent scheme had him taking Barry's life, killing other heroes, and helping villains like Damien remain in power or stay evil with none the wiser. Thanwe really can't be a hero or anything like the real Flash. He knows this and hates himself for it. He will never truly be the Flash, so he has done all this to change the meaning of what being the Flash really means.
Actually he made the crisis come earlier, not flashpoint. But I think it also has to do with his need to be a part of the flash's story. His research was based upon his obsessive hero worship of the flash. When he found out that he was destined to become his greatest enemy, I think that made him snap. That was like fate and time taking choice away from him. Every hero needs a villain and without a reverse flash, in his eyes, the flash would not be as legendary. So therefore he has no say in the matter. Again, in his eyes. And that lack of choice about his destiny created a self-destructive cycle in which he takes his anger out on Barry and his life over and over again because he feels he has no freedom. He feels as if he has no control over his destiny, so he's going to make the most of it and punish Barry for it since he can't bring himself to break away and actually try to learn how to live without the flash completely. Well, now that he is powerless again and incarcerated, he's going to have to learn that the hard way.
@@joialbino4745 both fanboys gone severely wrong. In the comics recently h e had a more twisted answer to why he does this shit: "Barry, how else am I gonna to get you to spend time with me?"
A lot of people forget (or may not know) that in Eobard’s time period crime/disasters are a rare occurrence. He wasn’t exaggerating when he said Flash stole his moment.
At this point the writers haven't even bothered to explain how Thawne keeps coming back for most of them, he just gets erased or dies over and over and then comes back with zero explanation.
@@immortalfrieza they do. Thawn made himself a paradox so that he can exist outside of his timeline. he's like a leaf from a branch that snapped itself off and can roam freely. You can cut the branch but the leaf won't go down with it.
Tom Cavanaugh as Thawne is the single best thing about the flash tv show. I like their portrayal of Barry for the most part (he has his flaws and the writing isn't great) but man the Reverse Flash is incredible.
I really hope to see Barry travel to the future and meet younger Thawne. I’m guessing it’ll either be letscher or someone who’s supposed to look like a younger letscher
Probably someone who looks like him but I wonder if Barry will have the speed force help with keeping the present in tact and Barry travel to Probably someone who looks like him but I wonder if Barry will have the speed force help with keeping the present in tact and travel to the future to stop his older self from saving the crowd so thawne can save them
2:01 And that's why you will always lose and be lost, Eobard. And as I said in an earlier comment, there has to be a lot more to this accusation. Even if there isn't, Barry just did what he was meant to do which was to save people. It was no insult directed at you at all. And to be honest you should've been ecstatic to see the actual flash in the flash two centuries after he died standing in front of you. Your hero standing right there. That's how I know there is more to this story you're putting forward. And you can't help yourself. You have to be the exact mirror image of your chosen nemesis. Knocking on the force field, putting your hands behind your back as Barry is doing. It's like you have no life at all of your own. No identity of your own. YOU'RE EVEN WEARING SOMEONE ELSES FACE BC OF HIS CONNECTION TO THE FLASH!And much like the fact you are being erased from the timeline right now, you brought all of this on yourself. That's what obsession and revenge are. Unending and completely self-destructive.
See not every motivation for a hero/villain needs to be earth-shattering. It could really be as simple as someone else stealing your spotlight when it was your time to shine. It's incredibly petty, and incredibly human at the same time having your entire planned life monkey-wrenched by someone else.
The monumental pettiness of this man is appalling. He has genius, determination, he could have made great contributions to humanity in so many ways. Instead he threw it all away on a vendetta because Barry Allen stepped on his moment.
With this scene, the writers finally connected Thawne's bottomless envy and hatred of Barry with a line from way back in Season 1: "Nothing is forgiven." This is the great sin Thawne lays at Barry's feet: he stole his thunder. Note also that Thawne didn't say he knew he had to kill Barry after being robbed of his glory, he said he had to get faster. The homicidal hatred came later, when Thawne travelled through time and saw himself as the Flash's greatest enemy. All he wanted was to be like the hero he admired and not only was he robbed of that, fate itself condemned him to be the reverse. Great bit of subtle writing in this scene, fleshing out and unifying all of Thawne's motivations into a cohesive whole.
I really wish they had incorporated the origin where Eobard discovers he is destined to become the reverse flash and then goes mad as a result because that is the most tragic origin in my opinion
His comic backstory is better. Thawne wanted to be part of Flash’s life because he was his biggest fan. When he realized he was simply nothing to him, not the partner that the Kid Flash was, he wanted revenge. Not only to ruin Flash’s life to make him suffer, but doing this was the only way he’d ever actually spend time with him. It’s kinda sad actually.
He has like 4 backstories in the comics, in one of them Thawne was making crimes so he could be seen as a hero and Barry figured it out and exposed him, or something like that. I thinks that’s what they’re adapting
I've never gotten into the show but watch here and there and I have to this storyline reminds me a lot of The Incredibles. How a fan wants to be like their idol but it becomes twisted and turns to hate for the hero and a desire to see them fall. While also seeking out glory so they'll be seen as a hero by others. No matter who gets hurt in the process.
Here's the thing, unless Thawne recovers his speed, this is the most powerful we ever see him at. Barry has defeated the oldest Thawne across the timeline now. Any potential encounters with him in the future (that are of his past self), if even possible, will be NOTHING compared to his past encounters with Thawne.
I'm ☠ I love iris but this is true😂 obsession by marriah Carrey is playing in the background in this scene I think of thawne and just think if the song heartless by kanye west to describe his relationship to barry at this point 😂
@@vincenthammons6705 I blame the writers they have no idea what they are doing with her character I like iris but other than the mirroveese they don't use her and they let Eva go instead that could have been iris arch nemesis her and rag doll team up especially rag doll....
So a lot of people are mentioning how Thawne tells Barry that, even if Barry saves him, Thawne will keep trying to destroy him. Personally, I see this as part of his plan. At the beginning of the episode, Thawne makes a point to ask Barry to save him *in front of witnesses*. Then, he spends the rest of the episode getting under the skin of Team Flash, showing them how evil he is, reminding them why they hate him. I think that his plan was for Team Flash to let him die. Or, at least, he was prepared for that to be the case. If Barry had let him die, then everyone would know that he had chosen to do that, even after he was asked to save Thawne’s life. The Flash’s image as a noble hero and symbol of hope would be ruined, because the world would know him as the man who let someone who had asked him for help die. So, even if Thawne died, he would have died knowing that he had won, that he had defeated The Flash. I don’t know, maybe I’m thinking too deeply about this, but Thawne was always the planner, the one who saw a hundred moves ahead, so it makes sense to me that his plan would go further than simply asking his worst enemy for help.
A much better reason would have been that he wasn’t a villain yet, but Barry treated him like one. Barry would have already known him so of course he would treat him like a villain, and eobard would have no idea why his hero would hate him and turn to villainy
although the scene is surprisingly well put together, especially for what CW flash has become, i kinda wish that they used the prime earth thawne's reasoning - being that thawne still idolizes barry and just wants a chance to be with his idol i can understand why they took a different route, especially after typing it out and seeing how dumb it reads, but that last comic issue where thawne and barry have their "final" encounter was really well done imo
From what I've seen so far of Season 8, this is the best I've seen from The Flash in a long, long time. Thawne remains as insidious as ever, yet the impact - the threat - he continues to have on Barry's life again manages to stay fresh, versatile and constantly having you on your toes. And this scene also provides more insight into Thawne's obsessions/insecurities and just why he feels the need to destroy Barry. And this scene also shows how much Barry has grown and matured over the years; facing down his mortal enemy, far from being outclassed, several steps behind or afraid and enraged by him...The Flash has become faster and stronger than the Reverse Flash can ever be. Looking forward to seeing more of Season 8!
@@thebenosrises Perhaps, but I absolutely loved Zoom. Honestly, Season 2 was my favourite season of The Flash, and Season 6 was great with Bloodwork and Mirror Mistress. Granted, not all seasons have been amazing. Seasons 3 & 4 were really disappointing overall. Season 4 should've given the Thinker a much better story.
@@MrDCWood The first 2 seasons were the only seasons really worth watching, then the nonsense that had already been a part of the show in moments here and there (like the countless times of Barry being stupid and as a result not effortlessly beating nearly everybody with his speed which only got worse as the seasons went on and Barry got faster) started to balloon to encompass the entire season. There have been the really rare good moments like this one but the plots, dialog, characters... in general it all just got more and more stupid.
@@Syed__kumailabbas I love their acting, but I also love Matt Letscher, and just thought it'd be neat to see Matt, because I also love his performance as Reverse Flash
It's a shame that we never got to see that moment play out. Because I'm going to bet there was more to that crowd than he lets on. In the comics, he had acquired his speed, because there was no crime in this utopia, he set up crises to boost his reputation; he started fires, he created calamities, and then to zoom in and save the day, and be hailed as a hero. That is, however, until Barry busted him. That could be the humiliation that he's talking about. Thawne NEVER reveals the full spectrum.
This is the same dude who got so jealous he went back in time to erase his OWN BROTHER from history to make himself an only child. The same dude who ERASED the only friend Barry had growing up to make sure he was alone. THE. SAME. DUDE. Who had a crush on someone named Rose, had her husband killed and when she didn't respond to his advances he went back in time and used his super speed to shake her so much she became brain damaged at 6 YEARS OLD, making it so she was confined to a mental hospital for the rest of her life. Yeah, him being upset that the Flash stole his thunder and, among other things, realizing it was his fate to become the Reverse Flash is not the pettiest he has been.
Exactly. This scene was good but it was old news lol. I actually think the one with Mat is a little more intense. And am I the only one who wishes that after Season 3, they would have stopped using Thawne for a while. Especially the Tom version.
1:44 I suspect there's more to this. His earlier incarnation back in season two said that he traveled in time with his abilities and discovered he was destined to become his greatest enemy. And yet, both plot points are part of his comic book origins. Although somewhat different. That's why I think he is deliberately holding back the entire story again. And I hope that we do get to see that starting a line of this very long race between them. Because I don't think that Barry would deliberately go to the future if it was just a stupid case. Yes Thawne is a sociopath, but there's always an underlying layer of what he presents to people. I think there was more to Barry's journey there as well. Possibly something involving his family? And honestly you shouldn't piss off the people that you are asking to save your life. And why the hell would you get in raged at one single rescue when you knew other opportunities to present yourself as a hero would emerge afterwards? How did he humiliate you by doing what he was born to do? Again, sociopathic behavior, but never that simple when it comes to the reverse flash. I want to see the origin story that was hinted at both in season two and last night. And as long as Thawne is alive, there's always a chance the truth will come to light. Given there is no crime in the future in the comic books, and nothing that would propel a hero into action, he arranged these accidents to give him purpose and a spotlight. And Barry was the one who exposed him. It has to be what he means by "humiliating" him.
Barry grew so much emotionally. I remember when he was very afraid and emotional when he encountered Thawne the first time and look at him now. He’s unbothered and knows to not pay him any attention. He barely flinches anymore.
![Thawne Has a Drink With Barry | The Flash 9x10 [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/u9c2NL7heKM/mqdefault.jpg)
![Thawne Has a Drink With Barry | The Flash 9x10 [HD]](/img/tr.png)
![Team Flash Decides On Thawne's Fate | The Flash Armageddon Crossover [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oy7YJJ_qaCA/mqdefault.jpg)
![Thawne Creates Reverse Flashpoint | The Flash 8x04 [HD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HUSKWXA1dq8/mqdefault.jpg)
Lmao…”Don’t you have anything better to do?” Every hero should ask their villains that simple question.
Lol esp Batman should ask Joker this
@@7michaelwright The joker has been asked this question a variety of ways, and he always comes back with "No, bitch, you complete me. This a shotgun wedding MFer" and then he proceeds to kill SOMEONE ELSE
@@Gration_ nah Joker would be like “Let’s face it bats, you and I are both crazy. You’re a man in a fursuit after all..”
@@Cosmicmorales It's like you didn't get that I was adlibbing what the joker practically says, and not going for something he would actually say.
That brings up a question - If Joker WAS in the CW DC shows, how would Flash, Superman, Supergirl, Black lighting, and Batwoman react to him and his chaotic madness?
Sorry, I just think it's an interesting question to think about
1:46 "Only a sociopath would react to something so small with that kind of rage"
that's a damn good line
I mean Flash CW has always been pg13 saturday morning cartoon.
So its obvious that main villain would be like typical saturday morning cartoon villain. While he has motivation its very petty......
@@TaigaXsenpai his reason isn’t much better in the comics the reverse flash is basically a super fan of flash and when he saw Barry hanging out with someone else he freaks the fuck out so it’s damn near the same motivation as the source
@@TaigaXsenpai what do you mean lol do you not know who reverse flash is
Remember in the animated movie of Flashpoint batman said thawne was a clinical sociopath that has a knack for getting under one's skin
1:53 "what you call rage I call commitment"
that's the damn best line
I love how perfectly petty this motivation is, because i genuinely think if Thawne had a reasonable motivation it would have damaged his character. This shows you just how lost he is, it shows how no matter how many villains the flash can change Thawne will never, ever be reachable.
well said
Kinda like batman and the joker
Well how would you feel being seen as second best? Always told you were an imposter to the person who stole your moment?
@@cunningsmile4166 “stole your moment” is the very problem. He was so upset that he lost the fame from saving people he didn’t even think, “let me go save someone else”. He literally went back in time ruin the guys life. He feels smited over something that barely happened
@@raymondguzman5083 No, no, not really... Actually, it's absolutely nothing like them.
I love how thawne is so confident in Barry’s kindness that he literally threatens him still knowing he’s not gonna let him die
i mean he literally can't die, he's immortal. he's a living paradox
@@SkinnyNugget In this episode he could have.
@@SkinnyNugget
The reason he went to talk to Barry is because he was going to suffer a Permanent Death
@@baligong3592 ohh, alright, i haven't watched cw flash in a while thanks for explaining
@@baligong3592 I wonder what face ill be wearing the next time we meet..flash
It’s really cool how Barry’s interactions with Thawne show how he’s grown as a character over the show; compare this to when he talked to Thawne in the season 1 finale. He’s a lot less emotional and seems to have completely lost his fear of him. He doesn’t even bring up Thawne killing his mother, he’s just focused on the situation at hand.
i mean... the characters sometimes look so fed up with the whole multiflashpointversetimetravel :/
Exactly
Crazy how much time changes you huh? 😉
That’s what I said! At first, Barry hated Thawne and always acted on emotion. Hell, he almost beat him to death in Season 2.
Now he’s matured and it shows here.
Oliver would be proud
“Don’t you have anything better to do” that’s a question every hero should ask their villain
Then the villain hits them with the "No."
Spiderman asked a doctor why is he turning people imto dinasours instead of just curing cancer and he said he didnt want to cure cancer he just wants to turn people into dinosaurios
@@danielcesar664That was sauron
Thawne literally hates Barry because he stole Thawne's "Thunder"
Imagine if Thawne decided to sue Barry instead of killing him. Everything could've been so different.
lmao more like he stole is "lightning"
Terrible villain
And knowing him, he probably set up that disaster
Shocking
For real I was like "Is that it?"
Pointing this out, in the comics thawne hated flash cause he realise he is a nobody to barry. He admired the flash in the future and wanted to become him, then after having a reality check by barry, thawne sought out to show barry how he changed only to realise he meant nothing to barry and what broke him was finding out that he is the flash’s greatest enemy, the whole reason as to why thawne fought barry was that it was the only way he could spend time with his idol
Oh yeah lol that was his latest comic origin before he got reset by Barry finally
I don’t know if that’s sad as the Blower hat guy from Meet the Robinsons?
Benedict D’Souza wan’t more on reset, more on he was locked in time. Since after flash point eobard wasn’t the reverse flash cause he didn’t exist, he was outside the timeline when flash point happened so since everyone’s backstory and character got changed the reverse flash as eobard wouldn’t exist
this is electro from TASM 2 (just way more sciopathstic in tasm) but somehow that character gets mad hate
EasterBurn well no cause right after thawne found out his destiny, i mean imagine wanting to be a hero, meeting your idol and changing your ways to be a hero, going back in time to show your idol you changed only to realise you don’t matter to him and find out your suppose to be your idols greatest enemy
Bro couldnt find another crowd to save, bro had to become an ultra villain
I like how Thawne’s origin is somewhat similar to the comics. In the comics he created accidents that would put people in danger in order for him to save them and make himself look like the hero. But once Barry found out Thawne was doing so he put an end to the fake heroic acts. Glad the writers were able to make Thawne’s origin similar as everyone has been commenting for years that they’ve never gone over his origins (which is true)
Yeah sounds like comic book accurate but we know Thawne maybe lying and like what you said create those accidents.
Yea
Facts bro I love thawnes origin in the comics it’s one of the best. He hated the flash because he couldn’t be him so he was destroyed mentally.
@@garythepartyrocker7613 barry even realizes this back in s2
They did already referenced his origin with Matt's Reverse Flash. He replicate the incident that gave Barry speed & "This ability to travel through time revealed the truth"
you can tell Grant Gustin is actually enjoying this scene with his acting, like he finally gets to do what he and a lot of the fans wanted, some PROPER story writing.
Dude, they have been doing actually fucking well for once. What? Armageddon was supposed to be a shitty crossover, yet, the writings been at its peak. Actual stakes. Good dialogue. Good shot variety, magnificent lighting. A decent villian.
Nice pfp
@X-777 I also liked when Barry gained enhanced intellectual abilities( which he always should have had) and turned into an apathetic cunning speedster. However, they undid that one faster then Barry himself.
@@eobardthawn6903 Right?! Like was this so hard for them to do 4 season ago?
@@kouroshm1 He already was a genius, that was established in the beginning. Sure, he shouldn't be THAT OP, but having him being outbrained is quite dumb. IQ is how fast you can learn right, his speedster abilities would amplify that by 1000. One day Cisco is smarter, after a few hours he would surpass him. That shouldn't happen, but with competent writing it would. Same with Batman, he shouldn't be as intelligent. Still, honestly I'm fine with how they don't do that. Cyborg should also be smarter then Batman, due to being ingrained with an AI brain that can function thousands of times faster then humans.
I actually love this motivation. Not every villain needs to be some grand visionary or some well-intended extremist or some agent of chaos who wants to destroy everything for kicks. There are people who are just so petty, insecure, and narrow-minded that they take any minor slight as reason enough to go off the deep end. They don't need a tragic backstory or the be the product of some failed system. It actually makes for a villain who is just as interesting because everything they do is their own choice. There's no "if only X happened, then he wouldn't be a villain" here. No, even if Barry went back and somehow allowed Thawne's presentation go off the way he wanted it, Thawne would STILL find some offense or take some comment Barry said the wrong way and we'd be back to where we are now.
"Don't you have anything else to do?" Is always the perfect response to this kind of villain.
What if Barry didn't show up at all? What if he hadn't moved forward in time?
@@giosy0072 - Considering how fragile Thawne’s ego apparently is, he’d most likely have ended up as some sort of power-hungry despot within the first month or so of his “heroic” debut.
Thawne’s level of pettiness is legendary
It was me Barry
Lex Luther is pettier
OG Broly would like to compete
@@Datkginger Lex Luthor actually sees Superman as a threat to humanity, while Thawne’s entire motivation is literally just a petty fanboy overreacting to his idol saving people he wanted to save. Thawne literally killed his mother just because Barry outshone him in one moment
My pettiness is beyond your understanding.
He had balls to still tell him that he's gonna try to kill after saving his life 😭😭
😂😂 good ol thawne. His writing has always been 100%
And his suit looks like it has trouble containing them.
@@johnkane3240 His suit is great imo. He looks like he's in his prime, and he looks badass same with Barry without the cowl. Same with Bruce Wayne, Hero's usually look better without the mask.
@@eobardthawn6903 I was zeroing in on the not-inconsequential bulge, but yes, the suit is whatever.
@@johnkane3240 yk hes packing
God I love this scene, going back all those seasons to answer a question we never got a fully clear answer too, and a satisfying one that makes Thawne petty and crazy, and the growth since the last time they had a conversation like this were Barry doesn’t even mention his mom showing he’s grown. Just 👌
We did get an answer, and it was even more petty and crazy than this. Barry has asked Thawne why he hates him before and he said became The Flash's enemy because he went back and found out that he becomes the Flash's enemy. In other words, Thawne is the Flash's enemy because he's the Flash's enemy.
Love how his origin story is still close to how it originally happened in the comics. It was basically a "never meet your heroes" kind of origin
Like Mr. Incredibles and Syndrome too, I guess?
@@arsyam_7 more like never meet your fans, iirc thawn was putting people into danger in order to save them. When flash caught him he promised to be an actual hero if flash kept his secret but flash refused. Considering Thawns personality he was unlikely to follow through on his promise, though arguably had flash agreed Thawn would not try to mess with him. Though op might be referring to a different origin I'm not as familiar with
If only Matt would have played Thawne again and did this. But at least this truly gives us the true main reason why he hates Barry and ended up killing his mother cause he ruined his chance to be like him
Es cierto
I know I love Matt as reverse flash more
Now that they have mentioned how they first met, they HAVE TO do it in the near future before the show ends, and for that they'll have to use Matt. Hopefully it happens during this season or at least the next one.
That’s not possible because they’re two different reverse flashes from different points in time.
@@ii_Urameshi yes it is possible, they could have just had this one die or something then another on come in as Matt. Or just have this one regain his normal body look
1:46 Your so right Barry. No one must overreact over the smallest things.
I agree with everyone that Matt Lescher Reverse Flash would have been cooler. I love Tom Cavanagh and season 1 potrayal of RF, but Matt shows the psychopathy more. "NOW WHO'S THE VILLIAN FLASH?"
Exactly wish he could return
Yeah much better AND he Is blonde haha
Same, why wasn’t he asked back? Do they really need toms face every season
cuz he is the rf not wells even since season 1. i’ve always seen him more as the right look
Thawne said it self he rather like harryson wells's face than his own,
This is basically a watered down version of Thawne's origin in the comics, but it's still kind of interesting. In the comics, Thawne's origin invokes sympathy for him, but here, like Barry said, he's just a sociopath from the beginning. For context, in the comics, Thawne was an orphan, and he grew up feeling that the only good thing he had in his life was The Flash. The Flash was the hero he looked up to and the person he aspired to be someday. He manages to find a time capsule with The Flash's costume, which he uses to give himself powers (he does this by analyzing the residual amounts of Speed Force energy on the suit). After recreating the accident that turned Barry into The Flash and becoming a speedster, Thawne decides that he wanted to _be_ The Flash of the 25th century. The problem is, by the 25th century, crime had all but been eradicated. So instead, Thawne created "opportunities" for him to be a hero by putting people in danger, then saving them. Thawne honestly believed that he was honoring The Flash's legacy by doing this, not realizing how messed up it was. The people, not realizing that Thawne was one causing the danger, embraced him as The Flash of the 25th century.
Cut to one day when The Flash (Barry Allen) himself time travels to the 25th century where Thawne lives, while testing the limits of his powers with regards to time travel (the tests are done using the Cosmic Treadmill). Barry had wanted to visit the future, since he really like Science Fiction (it was something he had in common with his mother). Thawne meets Barry and introduces himself as his biggest fan. I should note that, by this point, Barry hasn't solved his mother's murder case and doesn't know who really killed her. Upon meeting Thawne, Barry is honored and pretty much instantly acknowledges Thawne as The Flash of this time period, which Thawne sees as a blessing. Barry even offers to teach Thawne the ropes of how to use his powers to save people. This was everything Thawne had ever wanted and more. The two become good friends within the span of a single day. There's a moment where Thawne is trying to express his gratitude towards Barry, and trying to tell him that he wishes they had gotten to spend more time together, but can't seem to find the right words. Barry then puts the words together for him, saying "Every second is a gift." Thawne immediately replies, "That's it. Exactly." This will be important later on. As for Thawne, this was the happiest day of his life. To him, Barry Allen wasn't just a hero, but a true friend.
Barry and Thawne continue to save people, with Barry not knowing that Thawne himself was the one creating dangerous situations for them to save people from. Unfortunately for Thawne, Barry catches on to what Thawne was doing and the two have a falling out. Barry sends Thawne to prison for all the disasters he caused. Thawne promises to get better and become the kind of hero that he'd be proud of. He realizes that what he'd done was wrong and dedicates his life to helping others. Thawne does his time in prison, gets therapy, and even teaches classes for the other inmates. He furthers his education during this time, to the level of a professor (specializing in history, particularly with regards to The Flash). He eventually convinces the authorities that he could be a more productive member of society as an educator. He starts to work at The Flash Museum as a professor, teaching people about The Flash's history. By this point, Thawne is no longer mentally ill and is actually a decent, normal person with a good moral compass. He works his way up the ladder and eventually becomes curator of The Flash Museum. It's around this time that Thawne decides that he's been rehabilitated enough to go see Barry again, in hopes of mending their friendship.
Thawne makes a new costume that isn't red, because he feels that he hasn't _earned_ the right to call himself The Flash again. Instead, he wears a yellow costume, as that's what The Flash's _partners_ all wore (referring to the Kid Flash costume). He then travels back in time to the 21st century. One day, Barry's at the graduation ceremony of his nephew (Wally West) and gives Wally a watch as a gift. The watch has the phrase "Every second is a gift" engraved on its backside, which Barry tells Wally as he gives him the gift. Thawne sees this takes place and comes to the conclusion that Barry was a fake, superficial person, who says that line to everyone. He concludes that their friendship had been a complete lie. Thawne feels as if he'd been betrayed by his hero and runs back to the 25th century, completely devastated by what he'd just discovered. Barry had been the only real friend that Thawne ever had, only for Thawne to realize that Barry didn't actually care about him. He succumbs to despair and decides that he's going to spend the rest of his life making Barry feel just as broken as he felt. The next time Thawne meets Barry, he calls himself The Reverse-Flash, as he intends to be remembered as The Flash's greatest enemy.
WOW.
That's deep
lol, that's petty af. Might take the cake as the dumbest villain motivation or trigger
@@afrobuddy4801 fair
@@afrobuddy4801 That's literally Thawne's character. He's if being petty was a person.
Sympathy? He was an orphan because killed his parents and brother via time travel.
1:54 “what you call rage, I call commitment.” Idk why but this quote stuck with me the most
Definitely quotable❤ For anyone who has been bullied or underestimated(Thawne sees Barry as a bully in his deluded worldview) the trauma leads them to go out of their way to prove their oppressors wrong. They literally do what Thawne says here, turning their bitterness, frustration, rage, into a committed cause, or self-destruct. Thawne definitely needs therapy to channel his emotions in a healthier way😂
Things like this reminder me why I love this show serious season 1 vibes from this scene
They’re saving the flash 😭 definitely thought this show was DEAD after the past couple of seasons
@@JonJon22505 after the last few seasons same
@@JonJon22505 Buddy, this a crossover, the crossovers usually have better writing that the normal seasons
@@Kabbun yeah but Crisis on Infinite Earths sucked sooo idk
This show blows...I stopped watching the weekly Iris cry fest after season two.
The guy who played wells and thawne is just next level! Carried the show!
He's great as both characters, but his overuse has confused me at times. it really wouldn't help the non comics fan anyway. "I thought he was the bad, now he's the good guy."
"No, He's Harrison Welles now"
"Wasn't he Eobard Thawne before?"
"You have to pay attention."
It’s quite a different role than the only other time I’ve seen him that being ranger smith in yogi bear lol
@@aldenationvideos2582 He was great in Scrubs as JD's big brother
I think Thawn still does admire Berry in a way, and the reason I think that is because even though he hates Barry, you got to remember who used to help Barry in season 1, and admitted that you could kill him if you really wanted to but he wants to see him grow, he could have come up with a different plan to go home and I think that's the reason she still does what he does is so that he can have a reason to be connected to a The Flash in any way shape or form not out of hatred, put out of admiration, keep in mind though he is a little bit crazy, considering that the only way he knows how to still be connected with the Flash, is to be the man that is his arch-nemesis there is a fine line between love and hate and I think that was the area between that line that's were Thawn thrives, it differs from moment to moment
I agree 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I have a strong feeling, Thawne is leaving A LOT of details behind.
Just a theory, which I hope the CW develops towards the end of the season:
Thawne was going to come out as the speedster who saved the people whom HE HIMSELF got in danger just to look like a hero.
Then he gets faster, breaks space-time continuum to arrive at the Flash museum and realizes he is meant to become the Flash's biggest and pettiest villain lol
In the comics, he staged crimes to make himself look like the hero before Barry intervened and tried to set Thawne straight.
well that is one of his origin story in the comic. he discover that he is destined to be flash biggest rival
I was thinking the same bro! Right after he said that I was like wait... :D
in the comics thats EXACTLY what he did
@@barzfordayslol7343 ah now that makes more sense. Funny you don't see villains like that anymore. Wannabe heroes that cause disasters only to correct them to make themselves look good.
Thawne was one of those types.
People like that in any form of media are like Unicorns these days.
Definitely missing some details here. In some version of the origin, Thawne learned about him through research, he copied the powers, he met Flash, they worked together, then he found out he was going to be the villain and it broke him. Some of this was already explained in season 2.
Barry stealing Thawne's "moment" sounds like a PART of a larger origin.
THANK YOU. thats what i thought too when watching this scene, this was basically in season 2 zoom arc there’s definitely more to it and probably towards the end of season may be explained
Could it be possible that the Reverse Flash from season 2 and the Thawne from Season 8 have different origin stories
It's whatever. He's had several. Originally he was bad to begin with.
My thought the same, new story origin for the reverse flash seems like
In the original comics , Thawne time-traveled and does the villain thing in Flash timeline but the thing is The Flash is not Barry we're seeing but Redhead Wally West carrying the mantle as The Flash . Wally know that Barry died in Crisis On Infinite Earth (Running till he's evaporated to death counter-reacting Anti-Monitor machine whatnot) and Thawne is fighting against the most fastest speedster Redhead Wally , I think he hate the wrong guy haha xD .
I like the interaction with knocking on the barrier. Barry hits it twice, Thawne hits it back twice. opposite but equal reaction.
If only it was Matt Letscher saying all of this in this crossover
Agreed
Exactly.
No
@@rikrik4181 he's the original Eobard Thawne
Now that they have mentioned how they first met, they HAVE TO do it in the near future before the show ends, and for that they'll have to use Matt. Hopefully it happens during this season or at least the next one.
This scene is just amazing in my opinion finding out why reverse flash hates him and him telling Barry if he saves him he’ll keep trying to find ways to kill him with a smile on his face knowing there’s a good chance Barry will still save him
@X-777 what does irredeemable mean
For once I’d like if Barry completely subverts his expectations & just let’s him die.
I’d love to see the shocked & dumbfounded look on Thawnes face.
@@sonamtashi7706 lel he is already got humiliated like he told season 1 barry that future him humiliated him, basically this is a reverse loop
burry is doomb
Did anyone else find it extremely odd how Joe reacted to their decision on thus matter? He's the same guy that saw Thawte and immediately let off 3 round no questions asked but when Barry wanted to choose not to save him (which was very thoroughly justified) he throws a fit and says he's going to lose him as family? That scene blew my mind
I was definitely pissed at him like the writers be forgetting Shii smh
@@AyoooKai like yo come on. After all this nigga did you're fighting for him? And giving Barry that type of ultimatum? Why?
Now, It makes total sense.
Even though Thawne tried to be a hero, he is still in the Flash's shadows for the rest of his life, so he come up in a solution with a vengeance....
It makes him a sore loser and jealous
@@Introvertsan It makes him small minded and petty
@@Lightingwarrior sociopathic and insane.
@@Introvertsan thats basically reverse flash whole character in the comics basically
@@yutaoGOATsu236 I know, he is even more annoying in the comic books 🤣😂
"What you call rage, I call a sigma grindset."
“Being petty and vengeful is not “sigma”, whatever tf that even means. It’s being small.”
1:32 i can make so many tiktok’s outta this bro
This is why I hope 'Tik Tok' won't get banned in America.
Joker and Eobard have to be the most intriguing villains.
I also add Mr. Freeze up there with them
@Kal-El of Earth-167 good choice another one would be Darkseid
Both of them are PURE EVIL in the comics!
Are there any female comic book villains who could stand next the them in status and scale?
@@VDOTU5 I wanna say Circe, but I'm not sure about that. Harley Quinn? Not really anymore tbh. Flashpoint Joker? Hmm... We know who she is and that takes away the mystery of her origin.
Poison Ivy?... A little but in a sense, she's just an ecoterrorist. Honestly i can't really say tbh. Can't really think of any female villains that can stand with all those male villains in terms of how complicated they are. But i guess everyone knows Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy, so there's that at least.
I think I know how their story will end. Like in the comics, Barry might change the timeline so Thawne never discovered and got his speed and he would go on to be a Flash Museum curator. That would be very nice.
You telling, if barry never becomes flash, so never created reverse flash
@@shevonmalan4465 No I'm saying, it would be nice if barry goes to the 25th century and stop Thawne from discovering The Speed force and creating The Negative Speed force, Thawne would never become The Reverse Flash and would live a happy life. But clearly, that did not happen.
@@shevonmalan4465 there was a comic book issue that The current Flash went to the 25th Century and stop the other flash who went in that time and prevented Thwane to find the flash costume which once he didn’t that timeline will forever change where Thwane never became the Reverse-Flash and work as museum tour guide instead
thats exactly how i think the shows going to end.
That would require somehow Eddie to be resurrected and the timeline return back to its original season 1 timeline. Because ever since that season every single RF we've seen has been a paradox, meaning there is no Thawne of the future.
1:46 the day I saw this I automatically remembered Batman begins where "I won't kill you, but I don't HAVE to save you". Just like Thawne doesn't HAVE to mess with Barry. That's his own choice. Also EVERYTIME Thawne is saved, innocents die. I'll be damned if I have that on my conscience.
I love how thawne is so honest when he said he would just find new ways to kill Barry after Barry asked what he’d do if he saved him
Idk why but that was funny when he said that 😂😂
😂😂he is so petty
This ties to what the younger Thawne told Barry on S2
Being bested and "humiliated" by his hero sent him on a path of toxic and constant improvement, fueled by rage and eventually learning/accepting that he was destined to be a villain
Eobard was written so brilliantly in the first season, coded really well as Barry's abusive father. As portrayed in season one, Thawne is a sociopathic narcissist who self actualizes by asserting control over the lives of those he professes to care about, leveraging power over them through both his speed and their love for him. Fantastically written not only as a villain who hates the hero, but as an abuser who is toxically dependent on his victim. It's very similar to Joker and Batman's toxic relationship, but with a more parental dynamic. Even more screwed up is that Thawne has traveled through time to become the architect of the defining moments of Barry's life. In season one, he and team flash are codependent, the perfect environment for him to self actualize as the puppetmaster of the season. Nowhere is this better expressed than in his final line:
*"I've controlled your life for so long, Barry. How will you get along without me?"*
Thawne's narcissistic need to control their lives ended with him being erased from their lives altogether. It was a *perfect* ending. But, if they were going to bring him back, they could have done more with this theme. As team Flash outgrows Thawne throughout the show, it should expose what a miserable and pathetic person he is - just like all abusers. That's why he doesn't actually want to "go home" as he liked to claim in the first season. Because abusers don't know how to be happy. And rather than seek rehabilitation, Thawne chases the closest thing to love and happiness he can understand: controlling Barry's life. This show reinterpreted the Reverse Flash as Barry's abusive father, and it was absolutely *brilliant.* Easily the best written villain in any of the CW shows, and frankly most superhero media in general.
And now, they are writing him as a generic arch nemesis who hates Barry because he got jealous that Barry was more popular. It's depressing, man.
I think they do this. In the end of season 7, Barry finally becomes faster than him. Once that happens, Thawne is no longer this confident and scheming villain, he becomes petty, and desperate; due to how Barry is faster, and Thawne can control him anymore.
In an attempt to take that control back, Thawne uses his superior knowledge of being a speedster and being able to manipulate the timeline to get what he wants and creates the Reverse Flashpoint change Barry's and his life to make Barry the villain. He once again fails, and he loses that control.
Then he goes to Barry for help to show that he still has control (Thawne knows that he can still get Barry to help him even after everything Thawne has done to Barry.)
In the end of Armageddon, Barry takes his speed (the only thing he knows can still control Barry even if Barry is Faster (AKA how he used it to create Armageddon).) And once loses his speed and has no other way to control and ruin Barry's life, he has a temper tantrum and becomes completely pathetic
I know that a lot of Fanboys hated that, but I really like how the end of season 7 and Armageddon showed how, in reality, Thawne is pathetic and only has the facade of being a confident and scheming villain when he has control over Barry.
Wasn't Thawne even in comics still a petty person really?
This is probably the best they’ve ever done with explaining Reverse-Flash’s motives and origin. Usually I would say it’s a stupid reason to hate someone to that extent, and it is, but here Barry actually acknowledges that. He acknowledges that only a sociopath would react like that for something so small, and that’s what I like. It just shows how crazy and obsessive Thawne actually is.
I love this Flash Season 5 Soundtrack.
This is season 8
I know, i was Just saying that they put in a Season 5 Soundtrack in this.
Oh ok
which episode is this soundtrack in?
@@chris8gense_The midseason finale of season 5: 5x08
Not sure if you guys notice that Thawne wink at Barry when he said, Finding a new ways to kill him. 2:14
The exchanges between the Reverse and Barry when they are alone are the best thing about this show.
"Only a sociopath would react to something so small with that kind of rage."
For those who don't read the comics. Thawne was Barry's biggest fan in the 25th century, so much so he gave himself superspeed and plastic surgery to make him just like his hero. He went back in time to meet the Flash, maybe even become his partner, but time travel disoriented him. He learned that Barry was destined to kill the Reverse Flash and while unknown in the 25th century, the 20th century knew the Reverse Flash was Eobard Thawne. He snapped...even believing himself to be Barry for a bit, before he was stopped by Wally West, the current Flash at the time. He tricked Thawne into going back to where he came from....not conscious of what he went through, but with a subconcious memory that the Flash will kill him and all the hate that goes with it
His origin has been rewritten a couple of times since then, but I think this was such a classic origin and does the best of explaining Thawnes hatred
"Don't you have anything better to do than destroy my life?"
Spoken like a man who is f*cking DONE. 😂
I'm guessing we're not gonna touch on the part of his origin where he went back, but went to the time when Barry was dead and Wally was Flash, only to then find out that not only does he become his idol's worst enemy, but finds out Barry kills him at some point, and then ends up fighting with Wally.
0:41 I love Thawne's face here, "oh shit, thats right, he probably thinks im just some asshole, i never told him"
Thanwe is definitely leaving out more than a few details. In the comics, Thawne staged crimes to make himself look like a hero. Barry saw this and tried to set Thawne straight when he went into the future. When you think about it, he cares about looking like the hero more than anything. He set himself up as Harrison Wells to set things up while looking like an inspirational scientist when in truth he ruined more lives than we probably know.
When he used the Spear of Destiny, he used it to also be the boss of Star Labs once again and be responsible for making the world great when in reality, he made it worse in the first place.
He looked like an atoning villain on Death Row when he manipulated Barry's daughter, Nora, to make a serial killer emerge earlier, escape death row, have Nora wiped out of existence, and have Crisis come earlier.
His recent scheme had him taking Barry's life, killing other heroes, and helping villains like Damien remain in power or stay evil with none the wiser.
Thanwe really can't be a hero or anything like the real Flash. He knows this and hates himself for it. He will never truly be the Flash, so he has done all this to change the meaning of what being the Flash really means.
Actually he made the crisis come earlier, not flashpoint. But I think it also has to do with his need to be a part of the flash's story. His research was based upon his obsessive hero worship of the flash. When he found out that he was destined to become his greatest enemy, I think that made him snap. That was like fate and time taking choice away from him. Every hero needs a villain and without a reverse flash, in his eyes, the flash would not be as legendary. So therefore he has no say in the matter. Again, in his eyes. And that lack of choice about his destiny created a self-destructive cycle in which he takes his anger out on Barry and his life over and over again because he feels he has no freedom. He feels as if he has no control over his destiny, so he's going to make the most of it and punish Barry for it since he can't bring himself to break away and actually try to learn how to live without the flash completely. Well, now that he is powerless again and incarcerated, he's going to have to learn that the hard way.
@@Artisan1979 He's like Stan from the Eminem song but worse
@@joialbino4745 both fanboys gone severely wrong. In the comics recently h e had a more twisted answer to why he does this shit: "Barry, how else am I gonna to get you to spend time with me?"
In other words his ego someone has an inferiority complex 😂
@@Artisan1979 The Flash's own Joker.
"I think you and I are destined to do this forever."
"Don't you have anything better to do?" basically what we have all been asking
A lot of people forget (or may not know) that in Eobard’s time period crime/disasters are a rare occurrence. He wasn’t exaggerating when he said Flash stole his moment.
Not to mention, in the man in yellow tie
Barry was about to imprison an innocent thawn, just because of his future self
Thawne has been erased from the timeline so many times by now and somehow he’s still around
At this point the writers haven't even bothered to explain how Thawne keeps coming back for most of them, he just gets erased or dies over and over and then comes back with zero explanation.
He is a time paradox
@@immortalfrieza they do. Thawn made himself a paradox so that he can exist outside of his timeline. he's like a leaf from a branch that snapped itself off and can roam freely. You can cut the branch but the leaf won't go down with it.
Tom Cavanaugh as Thawne is the single best thing about the flash tv show. I like their portrayal of Barry for the most part (he has his flaws and the writing isn't great) but man the Reverse Flash is incredible.
I love that they used his comic book origin perfectly
Again, this one scene from season 8 is better than the entirety of some of the previous flash seasons. I’m glad there stepping it up
Can you please share the Episode this Scene Was Taken From?
I really hope to see Barry travel to the future and meet younger Thawne. I’m guessing it’ll either be letscher or someone who’s supposed to look like a younger letscher
Better be letscher
Probably someone who looks like him but I wonder if Barry will have the speed force help with keeping the present in tact and Barry travel to Probably someone who looks like him but I wonder if Barry will have the speed force help with keeping the present in tact and travel to the future to stop his older self from saving the crowd so thawne can save them
Me 2 I want to see his parents something happened...
That would make for such a great episode it's like going back to see baby Hitler & going back to the future is so meta in so many ways
It'll be matt don't worry
Kid Flash’s yellow suit makes him look like a kid version of Reverse Flash.
2:01 And that's why you will always lose and be lost, Eobard. And as I said in an earlier comment, there has to be a lot more to this accusation. Even if there isn't, Barry just did what he was meant to do which was to save people. It was no insult directed at you at all. And to be honest you should've been ecstatic to see the actual flash in the flash two centuries after he died standing in front of you. Your hero standing right there. That's how I know there is more to this story you're putting forward. And you can't help yourself. You have to be the exact mirror image of your chosen nemesis. Knocking on the force field, putting your hands behind your back as Barry is doing. It's like you have no life at all of your own. No identity of your own. YOU'RE EVEN WEARING SOMEONE ELSES FACE BC OF HIS CONNECTION TO THE FLASH!And much like the fact you are being erased from the timeline right now, you brought all of this on yourself. That's what obsession and revenge are. Unending and completely self-destructive.
2:01
What you called the rage …
I call that the Rage Red Lanterns
See not every motivation for a hero/villain needs to be earth-shattering. It could really be as simple as someone else stealing your spotlight when it was your time to shine. It's incredibly petty, and incredibly human at the same time having your entire planned life monkey-wrenched by someone else.
This scene reminds me of their conversation back in S1 so iconic
The monumental pettiness of this man is appalling. He has genius, determination, he could have made great contributions to humanity in so many ways. Instead he threw it all away on a vendetta because Barry Allen stepped on his moment.
Jealousy and ego
With this scene, the writers finally connected Thawne's bottomless envy and hatred of Barry with a line from way back in Season 1: "Nothing is forgiven." This is the great sin Thawne lays at Barry's feet: he stole his thunder.
Note also that Thawne didn't say he knew he had to kill Barry after being robbed of his glory, he said he had to get faster. The homicidal hatred came later, when Thawne travelled through time and saw himself as the Flash's greatest enemy. All he wanted was to be like the hero he admired and not only was he robbed of that, fate itself condemned him to be the reverse.
Great bit of subtle writing in this scene, fleshing out and unifying all of Thawne's motivations into a cohesive whole.
I really wish they had incorporated the origin where Eobard discovers he is destined to become the reverse flash and then goes mad as a result because that is the most tragic origin in my opinion
"my goals are beyond your under..." Oh wait wrong season
I like how at the end he's like, "Yeah even if you save me I'm gonna continue fucking up your life, nothing will change."
His comic backstory is better. Thawne wanted to be part of Flash’s life because he was his biggest fan. When he realized he was simply nothing to him, not the partner that the Kid Flash was, he wanted revenge. Not only to ruin Flash’s life to make him suffer, but doing this was the only way he’d ever actually spend time with him. It’s kinda sad actually.
It sound similar to the origin of, “Syndrome” off “The Incredibles”. 😂
@@carmillasmith7743 but still better than cw
He has like 4 backstories in the comics, in one of them Thawne was making crimes so he could be seen as a hero and Barry figured it out and exposed him, or something like that. I thinks that’s what they’re adapting
@@carmillasmith7743 I was literally about to say that lol
"What you call rage, I call commitment" - Thawne
This is the forth time these two have talked and he finally tells him why he hates him
I've never gotten into the show but watch here and there and I have to this storyline reminds me a lot of The Incredibles. How a fan wants to be like their idol but it becomes twisted and turns to hate for the hero and a desire to see them fall. While also seeking out glory so they'll be seen as a hero by others. No matter who gets hurt in the process.
And like Syndrome, the thing that slighted them into becoming evil was largely their own fault.
That's true cause Eobard and Syndrome share so much in common.
Here's the thing, unless Thawne recovers his speed, this is the most powerful we ever see him at. Barry has defeated the oldest Thawne across the timeline now. Any potential encounters with him in the future (that are of his past self), if even possible, will be NOTHING compared to his past encounters with Thawne.
Thawne from season 5 is the fastest
Very petty indeed which is what makes him a dangerous and great villain.
Thawne has been whispering since season 1 ep 1 bro, I just can’t with this show 😹
I like how we just got over the fact that Thawne is still using Wells Face
His motivation is very petty....
Despite being extreme threat he is still saturday morning cartoon villain ;D
Nice, I love Barry and Thawne's moments.
That man more committed to Barry than his own wife. 😂
Damn
I'm ☠ I love iris but this is true😂 obsession by marriah Carrey is playing in the background in this scene I think of thawne and just think if the song heartless by kanye west to describe his relationship to barry at this point 😂
she got real annoying after they got married
@@vincenthammons6705 I blame the writers they have no idea what they are doing with her character I like iris but other than the mirroveese they don't use her and they let Eva go instead that could have been iris arch nemesis her and rag doll team up especially rag doll....
Truth
So a lot of people are mentioning how Thawne tells Barry that, even if Barry saves him, Thawne will keep trying to destroy him. Personally, I see this as part of his plan.
At the beginning of the episode, Thawne makes a point to ask Barry to save him *in front of witnesses*. Then, he spends the rest of the episode getting under the skin of Team Flash, showing them how evil he is, reminding them why they hate him.
I think that his plan was for Team Flash to let him die. Or, at least, he was prepared for that to be the case.
If Barry had let him die, then everyone would know that he had chosen to do that, even after he was asked to save Thawne’s life. The Flash’s image as a noble hero and symbol of hope would be ruined, because the world would know him as the man who let someone who had asked him for help die. So, even if Thawne died, he would have died knowing that he had won, that he had defeated The Flash.
I don’t know, maybe I’m thinking too deeply about this, but Thawne was always the planner, the one who saw a hundred moves ahead, so it makes sense to me that his plan would go further than simply asking his worst enemy for help.
even so letting a manifestation that of is evil is a "Death Sentence" thawne is to become a regular human he would've been the subject for euthanasia
similar to the Joker
Noone would care reverse flash died. Noone lies him. He's a mass murderer
Batman: don't kill people doesn't mean you have to save him
Barry has broken down mentally so many times, he forgot why Thawne hates him. Lol.
A much better reason would have been that he wasn’t a villain yet, but Barry treated him like one. Barry would have already known him so of course he would treat him like a villain, and eobard would have no idea why his hero would hate him and turn to villainy
Love how he left out the part where he went crazy after finding out he was destined to be the mortal enemy of his hero right after that.
Yeah the Season 2 explanation makes sense. This one is complete trash and I elect to ignore it
although the scene is surprisingly well put together, especially for what CW flash has become, i kinda wish that they used the prime earth thawne's reasoning - being that thawne still idolizes barry and just wants a chance to be with his idol
i can understand why they took a different route, especially after typing it out and seeing how dumb it reads, but that last comic issue where thawne and barry have their "final" encounter was really well done imo
From what I've seen so far of Season 8, this is the best I've seen from The Flash in a long, long time. Thawne remains as insidious as ever, yet the impact - the threat - he continues to have on Barry's life again manages to stay fresh, versatile and constantly having you on your toes. And this scene also provides more insight into Thawne's obsessions/insecurities and just why he feels the need to destroy Barry. And this scene also shows how much Barry has grown and matured over the years; facing down his mortal enemy, far from being outclassed, several steps behind or afraid and enraged by him...The Flash has become faster and stronger than the Reverse Flash can ever be.
Looking forward to seeing more of Season 8!
Show only works when Thawne is involved, previous seasons have been a bump in the road.
@@thebenosrises Perhaps, but I absolutely loved Zoom. Honestly, Season 2 was my favourite season of The Flash, and Season 6 was great with Bloodwork and Mirror Mistress. Granted, not all seasons have been amazing. Seasons 3 & 4 were really disappointing overall. Season 4 should've given the Thinker a much better story.
@@MrDCWood The first 2 seasons were the only seasons really worth watching, then the nonsense that had already been a part of the show in moments here and there (like the countless times of Barry being stupid and as a result not effortlessly beating nearly everybody with his speed which only got worse as the seasons went on and Barry got faster) started to balloon to encompass the entire season. There have been the really rare good moments like this one but the plots, dialog, characters... in general it all just got more and more stupid.
"why did you create a reverse flashpoint and steal my life"
"you mean another reverse flashpoint, don't you?"
If he was bald he would look just like one punch man
I wanna see this exact scene but with Matt Letscher playing Thawne, similar to in the flashpoint episode
I am full of you whiming around . Why can't you just like and appreciate Tom's and grant 's acting
@@Syed__kumailabbas I love their acting, but I also love Matt Letscher, and just thought it'd be neat to see Matt, because I also love his performance as Reverse Flash
It's a shame that we never got to see that moment play out. Because I'm going to bet there was more to that crowd than he lets on. In the comics, he had acquired his speed, because there was no crime in this utopia, he set up crises to boost his reputation; he started fires, he created calamities, and then to zoom in and save the day, and be hailed as a hero. That is, however, until Barry busted him. That could be the humiliation that he's talking about. Thawne NEVER reveals the full spectrum.
If only they did that in Season 9 instead of insisting with Cecile, Chester and Allegra having more screentime than Barry.
*Barry knocks on the force field twice*
*Thawne mimetically knocks twice as well*
THAWNES CHILDISHNESS AND PETTINESS IS FUCKING HILARIOUS HAHAHA
I love this actor
He was wonderful in every series that he plays a genius with a dark side
I never got into this show and I'm kinda glad now, the biggest rivalry being over something that petty would've really bummed me out lol
Don’t you have anything better to do? Wow that’s the best thing I’ve ever heard from Barry
Alright pandemic really gave writers some time to think this is just as good as S1 holy fuck
As kid your more into superheroes but as u get older u understand the truth about a villains story
1:38 i thought he gonna say "and it was in that moment that i knew, i fucked up"
Same bruh 😂
1:29
^ He’s mad cause of that, killed a bunch of people cause The Flash took his spotlight….cool origin story bruh⚡️
😭😂.
💀💀💀
This is the same dude who got so jealous he went back in time to erase his OWN BROTHER from history to make himself an only child. The same dude who ERASED the only friend Barry had growing up to make sure he was alone. THE. SAME. DUDE. Who had a crush on someone named Rose, had her husband killed and when she didn't respond to his advances he went back in time and used his super speed to shake her so much she became brain damaged at 6 YEARS OLD, making it so she was confined to a mental hospital for the rest of her life. Yeah, him being upset that the Flash stole his thunder and, among other things, realizing it was his fate to become the Reverse Flash is not the pettiest he has been.
Did everyone forget we've been over this? He said because he couldn't be Barry that's why he hates him. Living in his shadow.
Exactly. This scene was good but it was old news lol. I actually think the one with Mat is a little more intense. And am I the only one who wishes that after Season 3, they would have stopped using Thawne for a while. Especially the Tom version.
1:44 I suspect there's more to this. His earlier incarnation back in season two said that he traveled in time with his abilities and discovered he was destined to become his greatest enemy. And yet, both plot points are part of his comic book origins. Although somewhat different. That's why I think he is deliberately holding back the entire story again. And I hope that we do get to see that starting a line of this very long race between them. Because I don't think that Barry would deliberately go to the future if it was just a stupid case. Yes Thawne is a sociopath, but there's always an underlying layer of what he presents to people. I think there was more to Barry's journey there as well. Possibly something involving his family? And honestly you shouldn't piss off the people that you are asking to save your life. And why the hell would you get in raged at one single rescue when you knew other opportunities to present yourself as a hero would emerge afterwards? How did he humiliate you by doing what he was born to do? Again, sociopathic behavior, but never that simple when it comes to the reverse flash. I want to see the origin story that was hinted at both in season two and last night. And as long as Thawne is alive, there's always a chance the truth will come to light. Given there is no crime in the future in the comic books, and nothing that would propel a hero into action, he arranged these accidents to give him purpose and a spotlight. And Barry was the one who exposed him. It has to be what he means by "humiliating" him.
Barry grew so much emotionally. I remember when he was very afraid and emotional when he encountered Thawne the first time and look at him now. He’s unbothered and knows to not pay him any attention. He barely flinches anymore.
0:25 me when someone keeps spawn killing me in cod
🤣