Let me know which vouchers you think are the best and what tier list we should do next! Also, shout-out MurphyObv for the design idea, putting the description on the left. Checkout his boss blind tier list!
One comment with observatory couldn’t you hold the planet card in your consumable slot then use it right before you open any planet pack and because you have telescope you definitely get it back anyway? So it just delays your use by one planet pack and you only lose the ones that pop up in store?
@@rightothen3510 yes! I forgot that and was speaking more to when the hand you're playing is not your most played hand. I should have moved it to Not Worth
@@rightothen3510 plus there is a build where you copy the planet card you need with perkeo and you end up having insane 1,5eN mult, that can snowball really heavy (same as if you had N steel cards...)
I also wanted to add that I had observatory on a run and my deck had lots of blue seals. Still not a perfect synergy because I would have to use the planet card(s) before I played the hand depending on how many blue seals I kept.
Yeah I think its pretty good; its not going to give you insan(e) hands like retriggering effects can, but it can really finish off a run if you're in need of some multiplying mult-effects. interesting tier list.
The extra card makes rerolls so much more powerful it pays for itself in two rolls. A reroll is 5 dollars for two cards you get two extra cards in two rolls. It also technically gives a free reroll every two shops.
Your ranking of antimatter makes sense. If it shows up, it means you bought blank, and that was the only reason you bought it. So you have to buy it when it shows
i love how with games like this and slay the spire, the winning tactics are always "that shit you think is garbage and never pick? it single-handedly wins you the game" and yet i never learn
Just a note on the power of hieroglyph: I won a run earlier today when it was in my shop at Ante 8. I had a solid deck that would have been able to beat any of the bosses except for The Violet Vessel, and unfortunately that's what I was facing down. The million points was just too much for me to overcome on this run. Buying hieroglyph reset it to 540k at its ante 7 level, and I was able to squeak by and win the run when I faced Cerulean Bell instead. I actually can't think of another voucher that has ever put me over the edge in one purchase like that. It snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. Learning when and how to use hieroglyph can literally be the difference between a win and a loss. Incredible voucher.
I really love getting hieroglyph and petroglyph early in a run, ante 1 especially. Going back to ante 0, which you can always easily beat in 1 hand with no trouble, even with no upgrades, gives you so much money to start a run with that once you reach ante 1 again, you've got your economy off the ground, a joker or two, and you can still win in 1 hand easy as ante 1 is designed to be beatable without upgrades. Getting petroglyph to return to ante 0 again is just icing on the cake.
I think seed money is a trap on higher stakes specifically. You need ti be spending your money to keep up with increased blinds, and the only time itd be useful is when you already have an incredible build in which case youre probably winning anyways. Its great on lower difficulties tho when you can afford to just collect interest
Paint Brush is my personal favorite. Extra hand size is one of the very best things you can give yourself in a run. One of my favorite runs so far, I played ghost deck and got myself a polychrome Burglar, then copied it with a spectral card, then found a Troubadour. So every round I had 9 plays, 0 discards and 10 hand size. Lost that one to hubris eventually...
Ngl perkeo + observatory is an EZ win however if no perkeo then I kinda agree with your point even tho you can still have your most used poker hand in booster
Im a little surprised that the telescope was originally viewed as mid/not good by the community. Towards end game/high scoring builds you want to prioritize stacking mult, and the best way to hyperscale your mult is by repeatedly triggering smaller times mult effects (steel/glass cards, king baron, triboulet, etc...) But the "weakness" of these strategies is that they dont scale as hard if your base mult is low, because these times mult applies *before* the static mult gains on your joker list. This means you need to have a high starting mult to maximize scoring potential, and the *only* way to do that is by collecting planets cards. (Empress is also an option but it is a slot being taken over steel/glass cards) Having to open planet packs and not seeing the planet you need is a gigantic L in these circumstances, so telescope improving that consistency is critical for those builds.
Observatory note: Most used hand will still show up in celestial packs even if you have it in consumable spot due to Telescope. I do agree that it is still awkward to use because they still won't show up in shop but you can still level your hand.
Saw something from Balatro University where you can open a celestial pack and choose your chosen hand. Then you hope that you find a Fool tarot to get another consumable planet of your chosen hand.
You can also use the fool multiple times to fill up all your consumables if you're feeling ballsy. It's actually a good buy, theoretically if you have more planet cards in shops then it will still take away more planets you need, but otherwise, pretty worth since you'll only be finding planets in packs usually
You should still get your planet from packs with observatory, no? Because the prior telescope will always get you your most played hand regardless, then you can search for fool to get another one in your planet slot. I mean granted, its much worse in orange stake, but observatory seems not that bad (having your planet card in the non-pack store (the one that you can refresh) is pretty rare anyway without the planet voucher
Very good point, I realized now the reason this happened in both my runs with observatory is because high card was played more than the hand I was going for. I knew someone was going to correct me!
@@ZainoTVLive yea if your most played hand is a high card, thats on you, even telescope wouldnt be worth at that point, let alone observatory with how slow the planet card scales, i think the sweet spot between easy to make hands and decent scaling would be flush or full house (or straight if you play abandoned deck), that would make telescope worth, and therefore observatory
A good way to think about Overstocked is that it is close to multiplying your shop value by 50%. Not quite 50%, since vouchers and packs don't get added, but the shop window is the more important part, especially at higher stakes. Having more looks at scaling or multiplier jokers is just critical to winning difficult runs, there's a reason I rarely want to skip on gold stake. Getting 50% more shops is just awesome. The only big downside is that it is usually too expensive to pickup early, but that's true of most vouchers. Being good early is what separates the good/must buys from the best. Regarding Telescope, it is often a good buy and quite strong for specific setups, but it really depends on the hand type you are going for, and you do need to be careful about taking it if you're scaling jokers by playing hands. Often telescope has negative impact on your run, because your eventual goal is to play one very strong hand, but you're scaling up jokers like Bus with different hands that end up dominating telescope. I realize your list isn't just for gold stake, but I don't value the interest vouchers highly at all at higher stakes. You just don't end up hoarding money that often, you have to spend and cycle jokers from early game to good late game jokers to win those runs. Keeping more than $25 around is very rare. I don't think I would ever buy money tree, except maybe with the bull. That feels definitionally like win more. Hieroglyph is a very high variance voucher. In runs that have scaling jokers or just need some time to find the right joker to complement the current set, it is invaluable. But in runs that are just relying on solid jokers to just about skate by (not that uncommon at gold stake), it is actively harmful to take Hieroglpyh. You really have to evaluate what your deck's pacing is regarding blind scaling, and determine if Hieroglyph is a positive or a negative. It also sounds like you've come around to valuing the high card/pair/two-pair setups for gold stake runs (we had a discussion on this in your joker tier list video). I continue to find them more consistent than 5 card hands, unless I have something exceptional happen via spectral/DNA.
Extremely well-curated comment, and I agree on a lot with your points. I tend to also not value interest, but I do think that voucher has a lot of value even at high stakes, based off of gameplay I've watched more than played myself. As I get through a few more Gold Stakes I'll be curious to if I align with this comment more or less. Overstock, thanks for explaining it like I wanted to haha. Hieroglyph I agree completely and is what I was trying to get across in the video.
@@ZainoTVLive It's possible I underrate interest vouchers a bit (Seed money only, the other one is useless). I do have some runs where I just don't find the jokers I want, so seed money lets me convert access now to resources later for rerolling. You have to burn so much more money rerolling in gold stake though, so I'm not sure.
Mostly agree, but Directors cut is a Must Buy for me in a way the discard Vouchers aren't. I've had the eternal Parophilia and face card disabled boss fights a few too many times. To the point I buy it even when my economy isn't in the best shape.
11:08 I believe the telescope already overrides the effect. So as long as you have flush being your most played hand type, jupiter will appear in packs even if you have other jupiters in your consumable slot
I'd say that illusion is even worse than magic trick since as you said the one reason that magic trick can be useful is to boost hologram with really cheap cards, but then illusion comes along and makes all those cards more expensive and slows down the scaling.
in my opinion i think you undervalued glow up aswell as both of the round reset jokers. just for glow up having an increased chanche of polychrome is obvously already pretty strong, but holographic and polychrome jokers makes you deck less reliant on planet buffs and more consistent so having a few of those while having a higher chance for late game polychrome jokers i would say is atleast mid. i personaly think that hieroglyph is S tier, this might be beacuse i do mostly high stake runs where scaling your jokers is the key to wining a run. the reason i would say that both of them are S tier is that these vouchers are the most likely to win you a run.
I almost 100% agree. You could argue, that the retcon is mid, because it can save your run and it beeing a second voucher makes it come in the late game more often, where youll actually need it.
Also good to note, buying overstock if you've emptied or bought something from the shop already will fill the shop up to the new cap, so if we value a random shop item at 2.5 dollars (5 dollar reroll), and your shop is empty, you are immediately paying for 3/4ths of the cost because you get a "free reroll" of sorts
Magic Trick should have Illusion’s effect built-in, and Illusion should have another effect (maybe make it twice as likely to see extra effects on cards or something)
There were several things that I was wondering: • What about a separate space in the shop for playing cards? • What about negative playing cards that give +1 hand size when held? • What about being able to manipulate the deck (e.g. removing or exchanging cards) with Illusion?
I'm sorry you guys are judging based off of like 3 extra cash instead of the fact you get a Permanent hand to play? Imo that should be the main thing you worry about
@@RevenantNeverDies Its both, you're getting the extra hand to play but in general that also means, unless you spent all your hands, you also are getting literally a $1 per round. Meaning 10 rounds of grabber with 1+ hand left pays for itself on top of the obvious benefit of having that hand when you need it. Its great all-around.
@@ThatNerdGuy0no, aliensrock is (mostly) right, the only time youre gaining money off grabber is if you're about the interest cap. If you are below 25 dollars you're functionally losing 1 dollar every round since that 10 dollars could've just sat in your bank and given you 2 dollars per round instead of 1. Obviously if you're above the interest cap or need the extra hand it's a must buy.
Observatory carried me in one run. I had a bunch of blue chip cards so I discarded them until I got the relevant Planet, then I had Perkeo, so I was getting an extra Planet and x1.5 mult every blind. stacked up pretty quick.
I think that if you're just trying to reach ante 8, blank voucher+antimatter is a C/D tier item. I see these vouchers as a "win more/snowball" type effect, so the upfront cost of $10 "do nothing" can really delay your ability to take advantage of the extra slot in the later rounds. I'd only take it in the mid/late game when I already have an economy going. I also have an incredibly high win rate when I take the hieroglyph vouchers; being able to repeat antes I've already beat is basically just free money.I value these cards similar to grabber/nacho tong, the way they give a lot of auxiliary benefit towards my econ and joker tableau. The drawback of these vouchers are offset by the extra power I'll be accruing just by steamrolling the blinds and visiting shops. I'd place them as "Best"
Good stuff as always Zaino! 👏 Honestly, you could probably fill a whole video with the weird "hidden mechanics" in the game. Like I had no idea about holding a consumable means it will never organically open in a pack. And there's stuff like "double the chance of tarot cards appearing in the shop" begs the question: "well, how likely are they to appear to begin with?" Same with Magic Trick: *how often* are cards actually added to the shop? 🤔
Yah, and blueprint interactions. Like how it copies the chip benefit from stuntman but not the negative effect. Or doesn’t help scale some jokers like Wee joker
Thanks for doing this! I'm a challenges player, and I've been very stuck on challenges 19 and 20 (Cruelty and Jokerless), and I've really run into problems with higher level runs (cruelty is 3 jokers no reward in Small and Big Blind, jokerless is no jokers and joker adjacent stuff) and I've really ignored balatro vouchers for way too long, considering the money is such a problem in Cruelty. I'm gonna try some voucher buys.
I think you are underestimating the Observatory voucher. You need telescope to unlock observatory and if you have jupiter in your consumable slot and the flush is your most played hand, jupiter will still appear in celestial packs.
The discard vouchers DO have an economic benefit if you've got a card like mail-in rebate in play, or if you have seals or gold cards in your deck that the extra discards would help find. It's probably a much better benefit that the $1 per round the +1 hand voucher gives you.
I really really disagree with the placement of clearance. I would put it at the top of S tier. Its the only voucher I will always buy. Economy is the most important factor in the game. It gives you access to more packs and more vouchers in a run. The best way to look at it is that for 10$ you're increasing your income by 25-30% or for $17 you're increasing your income by 50%.
Antimatter exists? I am trying to get achievement for all unlocks and antimatter never shows up even though i buy every blank voucher in my "trying to get two last unlocks" runs (i still not discovered antimatter and glass joker)
A thought regarding overstock vs overstock+ Overstock gets your card shop slots from 2 to 3. An increase of 50%. That's huge. Overstock + gets your card shop slots from 3 to 4. That's the same quantity of increase but it's only an increase of ~33%.
For Hone and Glow Up, I don't care about it putting editions on jokers. What I DO take it for is the chance of finding those edition cards in Standard Packs.
If Thunk buffs clearance and liquidation to where any previously bought jokers will retain their original sell price, then they will be easy S tier. Right now though I'd still say they deserve A tier because you efficiently give yourself %25 more money. Additionally with liquidation, campfire becomes insanely good since you can buy and sell planets/tarots for net neutral. They also reduce the price of vouchers themselves. To me both are A tier in their current state.
+1 hand size is the best. Notably it drops off after 1 because you can't discard more than 5. I'd put clearance over seed money if only because clearance is useful immediately and seed money is only useful once you have $40 (if you have $39 dollars and buy it you will be at 29 and getting no benefit) Also the point of hone for me is better card packs for cards to start duping. Not getting jokers.
@insomnia7337 Oh certainly, but the most important hand size upgrade is to 9. Checkered deck gets guaranteed flushes every hand at 9 and all other decks now can hold 4 and still do a full discard to finish a hand. Yes, the more you get the stronger steel, baron, etc become
@ZainoTVLive For high scores, but also for any deck. Card packs are really only worth it if you're getting a seal and/or edition out of it, but once you get a couple you can begin populating
I think what you said about observatory is kinda wrong, since you will always have telescope in the same run, so keeping a Jupiter in your slots while having flush as your most played hand will always give you jupiter in the first slot of any pack, no showman required.
I think it would have sense to have a teir called "luxury" for vouchers like blank and money tree - ones that you buy if you have a great run going and a lot of cash, but no way you touch it you're below, I dunno, $25? 35, maybe?
I got Observatory in a run where I got Perkeo, and it is *comically* strong. A free exponential 1.5x Mult every single round is bonkers. That being said, the other 99% of the time where you don't get one specific Legendary joker, Observatory kinda sucks lmao
Yeah, as comments explained, if you are observing your most played hand you'll still get it in packs due to telescope but often time high card or something else is your most played. Outside of having Perkeo I'm not a fan of it.
Illusion is mid at best. those additives are so rare in practice that it's basically hoping to get a plain king of clubs in your shop from the other one.
When do you actually buy the tarot card voucher though? Early game, you never want it, because you want jokers. Late game, you don't need the extra tarot cards, because they usually only provide money. But like...that money will just go towards rolling anyways, so why bother? I have 85 hours in the game, and I think the tarot merchant would go as far down as "not worth it", but I'm very curious why you put it as high as you did.
I do buy it a lot early game as long as I have respectable jokers. If I'm not playing a high card build tarot cards to me are the most important factors in making my run succeed. I definitely would move it down reviewing this a day later, I almost did in the video. However, I still think it's useful at most stakes/highscores.
Heiroglyph ruined two runs for me before I realized how it worked. I thought it was reducing the number of Antes needed to win. I was on a really solid run on any 8 about to win and bought it thinking I was cheating the final boss. Ended up losing to the ante 7 boss by like 500 points. I was so upset 😂
i will say that hieroglyph is an extremely good in most cases it's best for but its way less worth it on black deck since it already has a debuff on hands per round similarly i find petroglyph is less worth it on high stake since it debuffs your discards per round already, and having just one discard is painful lol (red deck obviously mitigates this) these are definitely must buys if you have grabber and/or wasteful tho unless you need that extra discard that badly lol that doesnt stop me from going "HEHE ANTE 0" if i get hieroglyph on ante 1 though lmao also i may be biased towards tarot merchant and planet merchant because zodiac is my favorite deck, but magic trick is still bad!
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
Let me know which vouchers you think are the best and what tier list we should do next!
Also, shout-out MurphyObv for the design idea, putting the description on the left. Checkout his boss blind tier list!
One comment with observatory couldn’t you hold the planet card in your consumable slot then use it right before you open any planet pack and because you have telescope you definitely get it back anyway? So it just delays your use by one planet pack and you only lose the ones that pop up in store?
Still not great though
@@rightothen3510 yes! I forgot that and was speaking more to when the hand you're playing is not your most played hand. I should have moved it to Not Worth
@@rightothen3510 Opening it in a planet pack uses it immediately so you'll lose the 1.5x
@@rightothen3510 plus there is a build where you copy the planet card you need with perkeo and you end up having insane 1,5eN mult, that can snowball really heavy (same as if you had N steel cards...)
If you have Observatory that means you have Telescope, which means you’ll still get the card you’re holding onto in every celestial pack you open
Very good point.
I was about to say, I hadn't noticed or tested it after patch, but I think packs still get you your Jupiter\pluto
I also wanted to add that I had observatory on a run and my deck had lots of blue seals. Still not a perfect synergy because I would have to use the planet card(s) before I played the hand depending on how many blue seals I kept.
Yeah I think its pretty good; its not going to give you insan(e) hands like retriggering effects can, but it can really finish off a run if you're in need of some multiplying mult-effects. interesting tier list.
Observatory with a bunch of blue seals is great
The extra card makes rerolls so much more powerful it pays for itself in two rolls. A reroll is 5 dollars for two cards you get two extra cards in two rolls. It also technically gives a free reroll every two shops.
If you buy from the shop, then buy over stock it refills the missing slots too.
Your ranking of antimatter makes sense. If it shows up, it means you bought blank, and that was the only reason you bought it. So you have to buy it when it shows
i love how with games like this and slay the spire, the winning tactics are always "that shit you think is garbage and never pick? it single-handedly wins you the game" and yet i never learn
Hey, it's me!
@@ZainoTVLive just one more quadruple pivot, i swear it's gonna work this time
So true
Just a note on the power of hieroglyph: I won a run earlier today when it was in my shop at Ante 8. I had a solid deck that would have been able to beat any of the bosses except for The Violet Vessel, and unfortunately that's what I was facing down. The million points was just too much for me to overcome on this run. Buying hieroglyph reset it to 540k at its ante 7 level, and I was able to squeak by and win the run when I faced Cerulean Bell instead. I actually can't think of another voucher that has ever put me over the edge in one purchase like that. It snatched victory from the jaws of defeat. Learning when and how to use hieroglyph can literally be the difference between a win and a loss. Incredible voucher.
Thats a great point as well and an amazing story!
Personally I take it every time because 90% of the time it's either helping me scale, or letting me look for what I need to win more
I really love getting hieroglyph and petroglyph early in a run, ante 1 especially. Going back to ante 0, which you can always easily beat in 1 hand with no trouble, even with no upgrades, gives you so much money to start a run with that once you reach ante 1 again, you've got your economy off the ground, a joker or two, and you can still win in 1 hand easy as ante 1 is designed to be beatable without upgrades. Getting petroglyph to return to ante 0 again is just icing on the cake.
Ante 0 is always a fun tine
10/10 Hieroglyph in ante 1 Big Blind every time.
I think seed money is a trap on higher stakes specifically. You need ti be spending your money to keep up with increased blinds, and the only time itd be useful is when you already have an incredible build in which case youre probably winning anyways. Its great on lower difficulties tho when you can afford to just collect interest
Paint Brush is my personal favorite.
Extra hand size is one of the very best things you can give yourself in a run.
One of my favorite runs so far, I played ghost deck and got myself a polychrome Burglar, then copied it with a spectral card, then found a Troubadour. So every round I had 9 plays, 0 discards and 10 hand size. Lost that one to hubris eventually...
That sounds super fun, regardless haha
Ngl perkeo + observatory is an EZ win however if no perkeo then I kinda agree with your point even tho you can still have your most used poker hand in booster
Im a little surprised that the telescope was originally viewed as mid/not good by the community.
Towards end game/high scoring builds you want to prioritize stacking mult, and the best way to hyperscale your mult is by repeatedly triggering smaller times mult effects (steel/glass cards, king baron, triboulet, etc...)
But the "weakness" of these strategies is that they dont scale as hard if your base mult is low, because these times mult applies *before* the static mult gains on your joker list.
This means you need to have a high starting mult to maximize scoring potential, and the *only* way to do that is by collecting planets cards. (Empress is also an option but it is a slot being taken over steel/glass cards) Having to open planet packs and not seeing the planet you need is a gigantic L in these circumstances, so telescope improving that consistency is critical for those builds.
Maybe it was just me, but I rarely saw people taking it, including myself. I've changed drastically and agree with your logic.
Observatory note: Most used hand will still show up in celestial packs even if you have it in consumable spot due to Telescope.
I do agree that it is still awkward to use because they still won't show up in shop but you can still level your hand.
Very good point as long as the hand you care about is your most played!
Saw something from Balatro University where you can open a celestial pack and choose your chosen hand. Then you hope that you find a Fool tarot to get another consumable planet of your chosen hand.
You can also use the fool multiple times to fill up all your consumables if you're feeling ballsy. It's actually a good buy, theoretically if you have more planet cards in shops then it will still take away more planets you need, but otherwise, pretty worth since you'll only be finding planets in packs usually
No. Observatory doesn't block duplicate planet cards if I remember right.
You should still get your planet from packs with observatory, no? Because the prior telescope will always get you your most played hand regardless, then you can search for fool to get another one in your planet slot.
I mean granted, its much worse in orange stake, but observatory seems not that bad (having your planet card in the non-pack store (the one that you can refresh) is pretty rare anyway without the planet voucher
Very good point, I realized now the reason this happened in both my runs with observatory is because high card was played more than the hand I was going for. I knew someone was going to correct me!
@@ZainoTVLiveSo now that its been corrected, where does observatory go?
@@hword5notsoofficial803 Not Worth, or Mid in times where you are playing high card/run where the planet you want aligns with telescope
@ZainoTVLive
Or you have whatever Joker it is that duplicates cards in your consumables and makes them negative. That was an interesting run.
@@ZainoTVLive yea if your most played hand is a high card, thats on you, even telescope wouldnt be worth at that point, let alone observatory with how slow the planet card scales, i think the sweet spot between easy to make hands and decent scaling would be flush or full house (or straight if you play abandoned deck), that would make telescope worth, and therefore observatory
A good way to think about Overstocked is that it is close to multiplying your shop value by 50%. Not quite 50%, since vouchers and packs don't get added, but the shop window is the more important part, especially at higher stakes. Having more looks at scaling or multiplier jokers is just critical to winning difficult runs, there's a reason I rarely want to skip on gold stake. Getting 50% more shops is just awesome. The only big downside is that it is usually too expensive to pickup early, but that's true of most vouchers. Being good early is what separates the good/must buys from the best.
Regarding Telescope, it is often a good buy and quite strong for specific setups, but it really depends on the hand type you are going for, and you do need to be careful about taking it if you're scaling jokers by playing hands. Often telescope has negative impact on your run, because your eventual goal is to play one very strong hand, but you're scaling up jokers like Bus with different hands that end up dominating telescope.
I realize your list isn't just for gold stake, but I don't value the interest vouchers highly at all at higher stakes. You just don't end up hoarding money that often, you have to spend and cycle jokers from early game to good late game jokers to win those runs. Keeping more than $25 around is very rare. I don't think I would ever buy money tree, except maybe with the bull. That feels definitionally like win more.
Hieroglyph is a very high variance voucher. In runs that have scaling jokers or just need some time to find the right joker to complement the current set, it is invaluable. But in runs that are just relying on solid jokers to just about skate by (not that uncommon at gold stake), it is actively harmful to take Hieroglpyh. You really have to evaluate what your deck's pacing is regarding blind scaling, and determine if Hieroglyph is a positive or a negative.
It also sounds like you've come around to valuing the high card/pair/two-pair setups for gold stake runs (we had a discussion on this in your joker tier list video). I continue to find them more consistent than 5 card hands, unless I have something exceptional happen via spectral/DNA.
Extremely well-curated comment, and I agree on a lot with your points.
I tend to also not value interest, but I do think that voucher has a lot of value even at high stakes, based off of gameplay I've watched more than played myself. As I get through a few more Gold Stakes I'll be curious to if I align with this comment more or less.
Overstock, thanks for explaining it like I wanted to haha. Hieroglyph I agree completely and is what I was trying to get across in the video.
@@ZainoTVLive It's possible I underrate interest vouchers a bit (Seed money only, the other one is useless). I do have some runs where I just don't find the jokers I want, so seed money lets me convert access now to resources later for rerolling. You have to burn so much more money rerolling in gold stake though, so I'm not sure.
Mostly agree, but Directors cut is a Must Buy for me in a way the discard Vouchers aren't. I've had the eternal Parophilia and face card disabled boss fights a few too many times. To the point I buy it even when my economy isn't in the best shape.
11:08 I believe the telescope already overrides the effect. So as long as you have flush being your most played hand type, jupiter will appear in packs even if you have other jupiters in your consumable slot
Correct, thanks for catching.
@@ZainoTVLive How would you re-rank Observatory after taking this into account?
@@belodie Not Worth, as I often am not shooting for my most played hand (high card). However, for pair, two pair, high card builds I would say B-tier.
I'd say that illusion is even worse than magic trick since as you said the one reason that magic trick can be useful is to boost hologram with really cheap cards, but then illusion comes along and makes all those cards more expensive and slows down the scaling.
Fair enough
Another good point of Tarot Merchant is that in Endless on you can roll into Temperance and Hermit to keep up your rerolls.
Clearance is a must buy for me just because it makes any econ joker absurdly valuable. Rarely am I worried about getting money from my sold jokers
I agree, I want to move it up. Also that's a great point.
in my opinion i think you undervalued glow up aswell as both of the round reset jokers. just for glow up having an increased chanche of polychrome is obvously already pretty strong, but holographic and polychrome jokers makes you deck less reliant on planet buffs and more consistent so having a few of those while having a higher chance for late game polychrome jokers i would say is atleast mid.
i personaly think that hieroglyph is S tier, this might be beacuse i do mostly high stake runs where scaling your jokers is the key to wining a run. the reason i would say that both of them are S tier is that these vouchers are the most likely to win you a run.
I almost 100% agree. You could argue, that the retcon is mid, because it can save your run and it beeing a second voucher makes it come in the late game more often, where youll actually need it.
I just think it's so rare to need multiple rerolls. Glad we're aligned! Haha
Also good to note, buying overstock if you've emptied or bought something from the shop already will fill the shop up to the new cap, so if we value a random shop item at 2.5 dollars (5 dollar reroll), and your shop is empty, you are immediately paying for 3/4ths of the cost because you get a "free reroll" of sorts
@@ZainoTVLive I dont agree because I had one run, where I regretted not buying the voucher...😭
@@NubTactics right, ive noticed that too
Very helpful. And I see you have a great community
Magic Trick should have Illusion’s effect built-in, and Illusion should have another effect (maybe make it twice as likely to see extra effects on cards or something)
Absolutely, or make them free or something
There were several things that I was wondering:
• What about a separate space in the shop for playing cards?
• What about negative playing cards that give +1 hand size when held?
• What about being able to manipulate the deck (e.g. removing or exchanging cards) with Illusion?
@@ValkyRiver Love these ideas
I’m so glad that you understand the power of the grabber, aliensrock got grabber and chose not to take it for some reason even though it’s free money
It took me a bit to realize how great it is, now it's an instant buy. Best voucher in the game.
I'm sorry you guys are judging based off of like 3 extra cash instead of the fact you get a Permanent hand to play? Imo that should be the main thing you worry about
@@RevenantNeverDies Its both, you're getting the extra hand to play but in general that also means, unless you spent all your hands, you also are getting literally a $1 per round. Meaning 10 rounds of grabber with 1+ hand left pays for itself on top of the obvious benefit of having that hand when you need it.
Its great all-around.
@@RevenantNeverDies extra hand is nice but we're talking about the fact people don't realize its free money, it pays for itself within 10 ish rounds
@@ThatNerdGuy0no, aliensrock is (mostly) right, the only time youre gaining money off grabber is if you're about the interest cap. If you are below 25 dollars you're functionally losing 1 dollar every round since that 10 dollars could've just sat in your bank and given you 2 dollars per round instead of 1. Obviously if you're above the interest cap or need the extra hand it's a must buy.
Observatory carried me in one run. I had a bunch of blue chip cards so I discarded them until I got the relevant Planet, then I had Perkeo, so I was getting an extra Planet and x1.5 mult every blind. stacked up pretty quick.
Yeah, Perkeo is the one place you absolutely want observatory
I think that if you're just trying to reach ante 8, blank voucher+antimatter is a C/D tier item. I see these vouchers as a "win more/snowball" type effect, so the upfront cost of $10 "do nothing" can really delay your ability to take advantage of the extra slot in the later rounds. I'd only take it in the mid/late game when I already have an economy going.
I also have an incredibly high win rate when I take the hieroglyph vouchers; being able to repeat antes I've already beat is basically just free money.I value these cards similar to grabber/nacho tong, the way they give a lot of auxiliary benefit towards my econ and joker tableau. The drawback of these vouchers are offset by the extra power I'll be accruing just by steamrolling the blinds and visiting shops. I'd place them as "Best"
I just don't believe that I always accumulate enough economy, when considering I lose a hand for the rest of the game, to make it worth it to go back.
Good stuff as always Zaino! 👏
Honestly, you could probably fill a whole video with the weird "hidden mechanics" in the game. Like I had no idea about holding a consumable means it will never organically open in a pack. And there's stuff like "double the chance of tarot cards appearing in the shop" begs the question: "well, how likely are they to appear to begin with?" Same with Magic Trick: *how often* are cards actually added to the shop? 🤔
That's a good idea! Maybe a weekend video for this week, thank you.
Yah, and blueprint interactions. Like how it copies the chip benefit from stuntman but not the negative effect. Or doesn’t help scale some jokers like Wee joker
@@TheAustin09 well, it doesn't make any other scaling joker scale faster
Extra hand is even better on a green deck
Omen globe... just make it any booster. Spectral can be in any booster pack would be epic.
That would be solid except for bafoon packs, imo
Thanks for doing this! I'm a challenges player, and I've been very stuck on challenges 19 and 20 (Cruelty and Jokerless), and I've really run into problems with higher level runs (cruelty is 3 jokers no reward in Small and Big Blind, jokerless is no jokers and joker adjacent stuff) and I've really ignored balatro vouchers for way too long, considering the money is such a problem in Cruelty. I'm gonna try some voucher buys.
I think you are underestimating the Observatory voucher. You need telescope to unlock observatory and if you have jupiter in your consumable slot and the flush is your most played hand, jupiter will still appear in celestial packs.
Good point, I replied to a few other comments that I should have noted this goes higher as long as the hand you're playing is your most played hand.
The discard vouchers DO have an economic benefit if you've got a card like mail-in rebate in play, or if you have seals or gold cards in your deck that the extra discards would help find. It's probably a much better benefit that the $1 per round the +1 hand voucher gives you.
I really really disagree with the placement of clearance. I would put it at the top of S tier. Its the only voucher I will always buy. Economy is the most important factor in the game. It gives you access to more packs and more vouchers in a run. The best way to look at it is that for 10$ you're increasing your income by 25-30% or for $17 you're increasing your income by 50%.
This is the one I regret the next morning and would move both to must buy. There is always one in every tier list video.
I agree with your logic.
Only issue is that temperance gives less money so I'd say must buy as well.
Antimatter exists? I am trying to get achievement for all unlocks and antimatter never shows up even though i buy every blank voucher in my "trying to get two last unlocks" runs (i still not discovered antimatter and glass joker)
Ive only seend it once or twice despite buying blank voucher a lot. Both times were in endless as well.
Pretty sure it unlocks after buying it 10 times each in a different run because there's an achievement for buying Blank Voucher ten times
@@RevenantNeverDiesI bought it like 40-50 times... As I said I already unlocked almost everything
Well I finally got my completionist achievement... Now i can get to doing those gold stakes or challenges... Didn't decide which to do first
Challenges seems harder though... Jokerless looks like a pain...
Hand size is like card draw, you don't realize how valuable it is until you play enough deckbuilders.
A thought regarding overstock vs overstock+
Overstock gets your card shop slots from 2 to 3. An increase of 50%. That's huge.
Overstock + gets your card shop slots from 3 to 4. That's the same quantity of increase but it's only an increase of ~33%.
The inverse is true for Clearance vs. Liquidation. The second one is more powerful because it's a 33% price reduction when you go from 75% to 50%.
my first Ante 12 (Purple stake) was with observatory + perkeo + uranus ... it was a two pair build and I ended up having 17 uranus giving x1.5 mult.
For Hone and Glow Up, I don't care about it putting editions on jokers. What I DO take it for is the chance of finding those edition cards in Standard Packs.
If Thunk buffs clearance and liquidation to where any previously bought jokers will retain their original sell price, then they will be easy S tier. Right now though I'd still say they deserve A tier because you efficiently give yourself %25 more money. Additionally with liquidation, campfire becomes insanely good since you can buy and sell planets/tarots for net neutral. They also reduce the price of vouchers themselves. To me both are A tier in their current state.
With observatory I believe your most played card will still appear in packs even if you are holding it in your consumable slot
Yes! So it's much better for high cards than I gave it credit for.
+1 hand size is the best. Notably it drops off after 1 because you can't discard more than 5.
I'd put clearance over seed money if only because clearance is useful immediately and seed money is only useful once you have $40 (if you have $39 dollars and buy it you will be at 29 and getting no benefit)
Also the point of hone for me is better card packs for cards to start duping. Not getting jokers.
Interesting note for that last point, hadn't thought about it that way for high scores.
I'd still want the largest hand size possible for steel cards, or effects like Baron, Shoot the Moon etc.
@insomnia7337 Oh certainly, but the most important hand size upgrade is to 9. Checkered deck gets guaranteed flushes every hand at 9 and all other decks now can hold 4 and still do a full discard to finish a hand.
Yes, the more you get the stronger steel, baron, etc become
@ZainoTVLive For high scores, but also for any deck. Card packs are really only worth it if you're getting a seal and/or edition out of it, but once you get a couple you can begin populating
I think what you said about observatory is kinda wrong, since you will always have telescope in the same run, so keeping a Jupiter in your slots while having flush as your most played hand will always give you jupiter in the first slot of any pack, no showman required.
Really point, others have made it in the comment section. I put too much emphasis on higher stakes where packs are basically unattainable.
I think it would have sense to have a teir called "luxury" for vouchers like blank and money tree - ones that you buy if you have a great run going and a lot of cash, but no way you touch it you're below, I dunno, $25? 35, maybe?
Observatory has synergies with Perkeo, blue seal
observatory is for when you have perkeo
I always take observatory, just in case Perkeo shows up
I got Observatory in a run where I got Perkeo, and it is *comically* strong. A free exponential 1.5x Mult every single round is bonkers. That being said, the other 99% of the time where you don't get one specific Legendary joker, Observatory kinda sucks lmao
Yeah, as comments explained, if you are observing your most played hand you'll still get it in packs due to telescope but often time high card or something else is your most played.
Outside of having Perkeo I'm not a fan of it.
I had an observatory + perkeo build onfe and on purple stake it let me get all the way up to 100m points
Yeah Perkeo + observatory is fun, Ill give it that.
Illusion is mid at best. those additives are so rare in practice that it's basically hoping to get a plain king of clubs in your shop from the other one.
b...bb.b.bb.but perkeo observitory????
Hone and Glow up affect Cards, not Jokers. I'd rate them good.
When do you actually buy the tarot card voucher though?
Early game, you never want it, because you want jokers.
Late game, you don't need the extra tarot cards, because they usually only provide money. But like...that money will just go towards rolling anyways, so why bother?
I have 85 hours in the game, and I think the tarot merchant would go as far down as "not worth it", but I'm very curious why you put it as high as you did.
I do buy it a lot early game as long as I have respectable jokers. If I'm not playing a high card build tarot cards to me are the most important factors in making my run succeed.
I definitely would move it down reviewing this a day later, I almost did in the video. However, I still think it's useful at most stakes/highscores.
All I can say is the observatory would go ham with a perkeo build
It does, just had it today haha
Telescope overrides the no duplicate rule when opening celestial packs.
Thank you for catching that, I misspoke. I should have noted you often may be searching for a card that is not your most played hand
Balatro players really like hands
Heiroglyph ruined two runs for me before I realized how it worked. I thought it was reducing the number of Antes needed to win. I was on a really solid run on any 8 about to win and bought it thinking I was cheating the final boss.
Ended up losing to the ante 7 boss by like 500 points. I was so upset 😂
Same exact thing for me the first time I used it haha
@@ZainoTVLive glad I’m not alone lol
i will say that hieroglyph is an extremely good in most cases it's best for but its way less worth it on black deck since it already has a debuff on hands per round
similarly i find petroglyph is less worth it on high stake since it debuffs your discards per round already, and having just one discard is painful lol (red deck obviously mitigates this)
these are definitely must buys if you have grabber and/or wasteful tho unless you need that extra discard that badly lol
that doesnt stop me from going "HEHE ANTE 0" if i get hieroglyph on ante 1 though lmao
also i may be biased towards tarot merchant and planet merchant because zodiac is my favorite deck, but magic trick is still bad!
All valid points, but I absolutely hate planet merchant. I get what you're saying though.
Observatory is very worth tho if you have perkeo
Omen Globe should absolutely be in Mid or higher IMO
Great video
Glad you enjoyed it
you're a cool guy zaino
Thank you
I think the go back ante is the best vouchers, Im suprised you value them so low
Its really hard to sacrifice a hand at higher stakes and I think it's swayed my opinion a bit.
Being able to pick what boss you want is really toxic, retcon should just make your 1 reroll free, with the option to undo for 10$
percio breaks observatury
SKOL😈
Praying for Maye or Daniels