What If Everything went PERFECT for Poland?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2024
- #possiblehistory #ph
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As a Pole, this is the kind of scenario I was waiting for. Not like I am already creating similiar ones in every possible paradox interactive game...
I think Poland is the easiest state in eu4 tbh
in Eu4, poland is a lucky nation that have a huge Lithuania to help poland❤❤❤
@@user-zg7vq3vd4t unless the ai rejects them for some reason
@@goldenfiberwheat238unless the Kebabistan decided to knock on the door on MP.
Every time period in AOH2
I think that the butterfly effect of the Soviets doing worse in the civil war would lead to Finland getting more land.
Can't expect much from this narrow knowledge youtuber
I don't know, it could be possible, but I think the bolcheviks would secure their border with Finland despite having trouble in Eastern Europe.
Probably, but this video focused only on Poland
@@talesferreiralimadossantos8806 Well, shortly after the Finnish civil war had concluded, groups of Finnish soldiers ventured deep into Russian Karelia.
It could be more than likely that the Finnish diplomates who went to negotiate the border between the two could extract more from the Soviets.
Still, something like Greater Finland would be put a fever dream. The greatest extent I could see the Finnish border expaning would be to the city of Petroskoi/Petrozavodsk/Äänislinna. Though, this would only be possible, if the Soviet were given free access to use the railway there, as it's the only logistical link route between Murmanks and the rest of Russia at the time.
@@_utahraptor They really don't have a reason to cover such a minute and mostly unrelated detail in such a short and focused video.
If this video was 4 hours and covered a lot more of the implications of the scenario, then I would question their critical thinking abilities with leaving this one out.
Poland could potentially sign a defensive alliance with japan as part of their prometheism project of fracturing russia, this could be further reinforced by Hokushin ron supporters in Japan
Polish-Japanese border on the Urals…
@@SMiki55 Bronislav Piłsudzki (Brother of Joseph) married Ainu woman so that another fun trivia on Polish-Japanese connections.
no way japan would respect a treaty that puts them at war with russia
I mean they were already really friendly with each other irl.
@@Nobody32990 Not just any woman but a princess!
Wladislaw Jagiello would be a great diversion point.
He was offered the crown of Bohemia by the hussites, Sigmund of hungary was supposed to abdicate the crown of Hungary after his wife died to her sister (Jadwiga wife of Władysław) who was the other claimant (they had a deal where if one of the queens died without an heir the other would get her throne) but Sigmund didnt live up to the end of his bargain. Novogrod was his vassal for a short time, maybe if the golden horde was pushed back that could be made permanent.
Wladislaws brother Vytautas challenged the mongol control over Rus, althou failed.
If it all went perfect and a strengthened Jaggielonian union attacked the Teutonic order they could wipe it all of the map.
was Jagiello the fella who died at varna?
@@catalyst9955 No
@@catalyst9955 Not that one.
Im talking about his father
When was Novgorod their vassal
Jogaila was kind of a brainlet when you think about it.
There's a theory he deliberately failed at the siege of Marienburg so as not to strenghten Poland, who'd have absorbed much of the Teutonic lands, over Lithuania in the Union (which happened anyway).
Imagine Prussia (the land) being directly annexed by Poland. No Prussia the duchy and later kingdom, no German nationalism in such an aggressive manner, possibly some other nation unifying Germany, if at all. Obviously no partitions either. Possibly no World Wars either.
His brothers Vytautas and Skirgaila kept on rebelling against him, even allying with the Teutons, and he kept on forgiving them. Over and over and over. It's riddiculous when you read about it. I know it's family and all but I mean come on, after the fifth time he should've taken a hint.
Mediocre ruler at best, his only shining achievement is keeping the Union going after the death of Jadwiga.
I’d love one of these for Sweden or Denmark. Both had maximum extensions much larger than we’d expect to be sustainable, so seeing how they keep it or lose it in a beneficial way would be cool.
He's already done a scenario for Sweden.
That would be pretty cool
@@esttrox5881 no, he didnt.
@@PainDude-vh6nk Nvm that was AltHistHub
Suggestion: What if everything went perfectly For Napoleón III
interesting
I don't know much about Napoleon III, but off the top of my head, I see puppet emperor Maximilian I Habsburg of Mexico (at least partially) winning loyalty of the people while remaining loyal to France. I also see an alternate Franco-Prussian War where Prussia's defeat means France either gains Geman territories or lots of payment.
As a French men I see this as an absolute win
Didn’t he already make a video about that
@@TheOneWhoMemes79 Napoleon the first? The one that's the great general? Napoleon the 3rd is a different person
I agree with the scenario in the video. The only change for me would be that in 1934 Polish army was actually very strong (Poland could be called military dictatorship at the time.) while German military until 1935 was absolutely disaster. Poland irl was more powerful than Germany, not to mention potential Intermarium. German army could hold very tiny frontline (it was impossible for the front to freeze) and would be inevitebly crushed.
the issue is, as he said, if Poland had its actual borders, ukraine and belarus would not have joined, which would have led to similar events to our timeline.
@@wizdmovie9957 Polish army in this perfect scenario would be much better-prepared. Ukraine and Belarus had to do nothing, if Poland didn't have border with USSR it's like its army was twice as strong against Germany
@@redguy3256 i just realized i responded to a different comment than the one i wanted to, umm. Oops i guess
It might be a more complex balance than that. Even under the Weimar Republic, Germany's interwar army was set up to allow for massive expansion on short notice, and they also had secret projects for the war machines they weren't supposed to have. Obviously they wouldn't have been as prepared in 1934 as they would be in 1939, but in a situation where they were on the defensive and had a natural border to fall back on (there's a reason the modern border is where it is...), there's a decent chance that mass mobilisation could have held a line long enough for German industry to kick over to a war economy.
Why do we have the same profile picture lol
Curzon line would be a big no no for Poland because you'd leave a tone of polish people outside of Poland. Imo Poland and Galicia and Volhynia alone would either have to be split between Poland and Ukraine or be established as a jointly controlled area of some sort
the issue is, as he said, if Poland had its actual borders, ukraine and belarus would not have joined, which would have led to similar events to our timeline.
@@wizdmovie9957 Curzone Line B then for compromise
@@stanisawzokiewski3308 thats what was in the video
@@stanisawzokiewski3308curson line b would still have the problem of Polish minorities in wilnno and east Belarus
@@xaveircombs2690
But its a compromise.
You cant make an alliance without compromise.
My dream came true. You made this video. Thank you. Cant wait for the PLC episode
Made?
@@krabiasTY Shit autocorrect thank you
fr ❤️🩹
*happy Eduard Beneš noises*
(Beneš was a big proponent of the "Little Entente" - an economic and defensive pact between Czechoslovakia, Romania and Yugoslavia. In our timeline, it was obliterated by WW2, but in this scenario, it could be folded into the Intermarium, speeding up its expansion.)
Benes was also ekstremly antipolish and was literally sabotaging intermarium buildup irl
It's really no surprise that Eastern Europe got stomped over by the German/Soviet oppressors. Only foolish and unworthy leadership would engage in the petty distraction of regional feuds when they have twin revanchist giants both breathing down their necks. Putting every percent of blame on the west for the east's collapse only whitewashes the reality of it being a "team" effort between the complacent west and the bickering east.
He would have no justifiable reason for that behaviour if Poland acts like it does in this video. This Poland is far more preferable to the diplomatically inept fools that pissed off most of their neighbours while the two strongest ones clearly wanted to partition Poland between themselves. It's no wonder Poland had to rely on the lukewarm Allies when Molotov and Ribbentrop did their thing.
FINALLY IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VIDEO SPECIFICALLY
W Video, much respect from Poland🇵🇱
Polska Gurom !!!
how is this a good timeline for us we have less territories?
@@snowbrero5448 Yes, there is a down side-however the Intermarium would be Polish dominated, and would be a stronger alliance than Poland could be without it-and definitely in the near future of this senario Poland would surely expand or unite with an Intermarium member👍🇵🇱
@@snowbrero5448 But honestly, my timeline would look wayyy different to this one🇵🇱
Comment "A" for poland.
Do Czechoslovakia next🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
no v ziadnom pripade to by sa nestalo
@@Salt_and_Peroxide tak, je tu pár možností, mohli by sme dostať Lemkovu republiku, postaviť sa Mníchovu a následne zabrať Sliezko a Sorbiu
Alebo
Veľká Morava by sa nerozpadla a namiesto toho by zjednotila všetkých západných slovanov do jednej krajiny (podobne ako vzniklo Nemecko)
? So czechoslovak legion takes the entirety of Russia
plot twist: Everything going well for czechoslovakia would mean it joining the intermarium
@@voytec448 well, it would be nice, but there is some mutually exclusive nice things for Czechoslovakia and Poland
I've been waiting so long for this thank you
There was actually a polish majority in a strip going to Latvia. They would probably demand a referendum or something
You mean Lithuania?
@@goldenfiberwheat238no.
From Belarusian Grodno to Lithuanian Vilnius ending in Latvian Dyneburg there is a strip of land with a lot of Poles
@@pep-qew oh
The polish population was irrelevant considering the german and russian minorities in Latvia
yeah honestly realistically i'd expect border disputes. I feel like in this scenario Poland could get a bit more land east and then encourage the Poles abroad to resettle there. It's complicated because of the Commonwealth past, there's been tons of Polish settlements throughout the now independent states to its east. If they don't get settled then you could have a Yugoslavia situation and considering how well it went OTL, it's not a great look. I think settling that would have had to be a priority for a stable intermarium or you'd always have border disputes. Wish Poland just had a reason to annex East Prussia and expel the Germans from there to make room for the populace abroad much like it happened OTL with Kaliningrad
Piłsudski wanted to make a larger Lithuania out of Belarus, Lithuania and a piece of Poland, which would be in a federation with Poland, following the example of the Lithuanian Polish Union.
Pilsudski was still thinking in the PLC terms, where "Lithuanians" meant citizens of GDL, most of whom were Polonized Belarussians, like Kosciuszko and Mickiewicz. The modern state of Lithuania was founded by ethnic Lithuanians who didn't want to be a minority in their own state. Larger Lithuania wouldn't work for them. This is why Vilno problem was not resolvable. It was a Polish city in Lithuania.
@@milobem4458vilnius will always be lithuanian, yall destroyed our country and then your new expanded country got destroyed, and now a lot of polish people are nationalistic and want vilnius back
PD: we are far from being a ethnic minority within our own borders, tho we were invaded and in much worse ways than poland and most other countries in the world, and now our country is being fucked because its a post eastern bloc country that has been tryna adapt to the west and our population decline has been second to bulgaria from suicides and massive immigration, so yeah long text but we were far from being russian or polish or any other ethnic group
Love your vids man!
Finally, I've been waiting for this for years
Loved it! You nailed it!
Love your content!😊😊😊❤❤
Finally I have been waiting for this video
amazing episode it was just perfect
Pretty good video. I'm looking forward to your coverage of the PLC. If I might offer some advice, I think that the best historians writing about this subject in English are Richard Butterwick and Robert Frost (not to be confused with the late American poet). Unfortunately, Frost is yet to finish writing _The Oxford History of Poland-Lithuania_ (fun fact: he's actually professor at the University of Aberdeen but Oxford approached him with this project as they don't have anyone nearly as competent in this area). There is just the first volume available, out of planed three.
It would also be great if you'd get your hands on the English edition of currently the most comprehensive Polish synthesis of the subject: _History of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth: State - Society - Culture_ by Urszula Augustyniak (I understand it's a bit harder to get).
Poczytaj prac Norman Davis, historyk piszący o Polsce.
@@jerzymarzec3386 Oczywiście czytałem _Boże Igrzysko_ Daviesa. To klasyka, pionierska w przybliżaniu szerszemu światu ogólnego zarysu polskiej historii i w dawaniu Polakom ciekawego spojrzenia z zewnątrz na naszą historię, wciąż warta czytania. Ale nie powiedział bym, że Davies jest obecnie czołowym zachodnim specjalistą od dawnej Rzeczypospolitej.
@@Artur_M. thanks for recommendations lol, might take a look
Amazing work as always! Please do this with britain! Starting with james i and vi
Amazing video thanks
I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR YEARS !!!
Im suprised you didn't add Hungary in the intermarium considering Poland and hungary were really close allies at the time to the point when hungary accepted polish refugees into hungary during ww2 during the invasion of poland
I think he viewed it as more of federation/union of slavs+balts, hungary is "too far" in terms of language. Tho in reality they could be included considering close ties and friendship between poland and hungary. Not only through WWII but in history in general, poland and hungary were close friends for centuries and even today.
Both have "Day of Polish-Hungarian friendship" on Mar 23.
There is even a proverb in both languages:
Polak, Węgier - dwa bratanki,
i do szabli, i do szklanki,
oba zuchy, oba żwawi,
niech im Pan Bóg błogosławi.
Lengyel, magyar - két jó barát,
Együtt harcol s issza borát,
Vitéz s bátor mindkettője,
Áldás szálljon mindkettőre.
Pole, Hungarian - two brothers,
both for the saber and the glass,
both lad, both lively,
may God bless them.
hungary wouldn't ally czechoslovakia, romania and yugoslavia without compensation, those are their geopolicial enemies
Exactly. Interwar Hungary really hated those three and no emotional pleas founded in Polish-Hungarian friendship will make Hungary drop its numerous claims against Intermarium members. Hungary was pretty much destined to be Germany's bitch with how much of a massive chip they had against the new order.
Hungary very much wanted its land back. Hence why it joined the Axis in WW2.
hungary would probably have been in the alliance if romania and slovakia were willing to give Hungarian magority lands back,
Please do something about romania. You are my favourite alt history creator. I would love to see the same type of video about my country, since it also has quite tragic history
Part 2 would be sick
1:15 “The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth will get its own episode one day” mhm I’m still waiting POSSIBLE HISTORY !!!
i was watching your other videos about what if everythng went perfect for countriesand thought that you probobabily didnt make a video about Poland and boom, you actually made it
It's funny how in this perfect scenario Poland somehow still ends up smaller in terms of territory than our counterpart.
It's silly, yeah. I feel like there has been a big drop in quality of AH videos. His old ones were much better researched and much more plausible.
@@Szpareq wdym silly do you not know the meaning of diplomacy and compromises?
If territory was all that mattered then Russia would have always been an unbeatable behemoth. Geopolitics is not a map font size competition. This Poland may look smaller on the map but they're absolutely better off for dropping their neo-imperialist goal and founding a strong bloc against Nazi and Stalinist tyrannies instead. Hence, what if things went perfect for modern Poland.
If you think it represents a big drop in quality of his videos then that's a very blatant You Problem and I'd suggest revising how you view history and global politics.
@@gengarzilla1685 you miss one point, this union would be dominated by Ukrainians (twice as many people there when compared to Poland) who would lay claim to Eastern Poland. There is no such thing as gratitude in geopolitics and Ukrainians wouldn't give a shit about union as soon as Bolshevik threat was dealt with. Just look at the actions of current Ukrainian government - Polish actions saved Ukraine in 2022 and 2023, then Zelensky started screwing Poland over the trade deals. Ukrainians OTL committed genocide against Poles as soon as the Polish government disappeared and they justified it as a historical justice against their colonizers. This scenario is just flat out oversimplified.
what do you mean small? I think this pretty average size for coc.... I mean country
I adore the way other people pronounce polish names, just brings a smile to my face.
the idea of Poland liberating Finland and it joining the alliance is the most blurst thing ever and I'm all here for it
I'd love to see this start at the beginning of Polish history
My favorite Dutchman uploads again
You should do Canada next. I don't think my country gets enough recognition so it would be really cool to see a TH-cam like you cover it.
There’s a couple of videos here that contain what if scenarios for Canada.
@welshlout3400 I know but I just really like this guy so it would be pretty cool you know?
Let's keep going with this!
Man i seriously wish for a part two as there is still so much to do in this
Love the classical music in the background
Poland being is very lucky compared to Sorbia so I want u to make a scenario for Sorbia where the Slavs of East Germany never got taken over by Germanic Tribes
Hey possible history, I have an idea for you. I am from Czechia and I am mad, that my country was never an empire, so I would like to see a video, where everything will go perfectly for Czechia (if its possible). thank you :)
The Hre was sometimes ruled in Prague but I get your point 🇩🇪❤️🇨🇿
Great Moravia maybe
Wouldn't great moravia kinda count as "Czech empire"? I mean, it had Czech lands, was from Czech lands (moravia is like half of todays czechia) and was pretty big, maybe not "empire" like for example french, but still pretty signifficant kingdom looking at the region
Czechia (or maybe Bohemia, idk what's the right English version of medieval Czechia) was a very powerful country is 13th and 14th century. In 1260s and 1270s Przemyslid dynasty struggled with Arpads (Hungary) and Habsburgs for succesion of Babenbergs (modern Austria) and almost won (it took HRE for Habsburgs to defeat Przemysl Ottokar II). Then, in 1290-1300 period, Waclaw II, benefiting from crisis in Poland, which was splitted between rivalizing dukes, conquered most of Poland and in 1300 was crowned its king. Meanwhile, Hungarian Arpad dynasty died out and Waclaw's son, another Waclaw had pretty good chances of becomimg king of Hungary. Unfortunately for Czechia, Waclaw II died of illness and Waclaw III was assasinated, making him only king of Poland, who never was in Poland. Then, Luxembourg dynasty took over. Bohemia was still very strong and Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor was Bohemian king. (This is actually really intresting, because during his reign, all three great medieval central European states - Bohemia, Hungary and Poland had fantastic monarchs, I'd argue two last their very best).
Do you really need an "empire"? Poland certainly not. And as a Pole I can't see the Czech Empire in my imagination. C'mon southern brother! We love you because you are normal. Not an imperial motherfuckers, but relaxed Czechs chilling with beer and knedliki.
Western Slavs should create the Federal Republic of Poland-Czechia-Slovakia. Equal, friendly nations of people with the same ethnic roots.
The most interesting alternative history scenario.
I consider that spain would be an interesting choice of a perfect history video because of all of its history
Impossible borders from Polish standpoint, Lwów and Stanisławów were centers of Polish culture and were in Poland for over 400 years at the time, no way we could ever voluntarily give these lands to states that havent existed at this point yet (Ukraine and Belarus).
I think your off when it comes to German rearmament. If Czechoslovakia.was in the alliance and the Germans began to threaten invasion the Czechoslovakians would completely destroy them. In our timeline if not for the British and French intervention the the Czechoslovakians would have completely beat back the Germans the British and French interference prompted them to give up all their fortifications.
Awesome video as always! Could you perhaps talk about the consequences that would've happened if the Romanian rulers took up the crown of Bulgaria in the 19th century and then the Hungarian crown following ww1?
I like how at the end of the video it teased that Poland would still be partitioned
That’s for part 2, where Poland reveals its secret defense agreement with Japan, France miraculously grows a pair, and the partitioners become the partitionees.
bro we will bring u to at least 250k this year
Norway next?
(Please do a what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario)
Idk when will what if everything went perfect for Norway scenario start
I feel like you should do one for Greece, lots of possibilities there.
2:08 what is that music? I often hear it in videos but dont know the name 😅
suggestion: what if everything went perfect for spain? you havent done it yet so im hoping you will
You needed to do a bit more research on this one. Poland actually got almost all of Belarus and Ukraine in RL, including Minsk and Kiev and more, however the ultra nationalists Pole faction dominated the negotiations and actually REJECTED the USSR's offer, since they only wanted Pole and "polonizable" regions.
I would love to see Polish-Lithuanian common wealth succeed episode
oddly modern poland border jumpscare
I want to see a video about what if everything went perfect for Brazil, basically a remake of the "What if Brazil wasn't poor?" video, but with more border changes
Video idea : What if history went perfect for the visigothic kingdom (or if he survived)
Not 1991, but 1989. I was born that day when we got independence. 4th of June 1989.
Not 91.
91 was in some other countries that got free from USSR. We were eralier. 1989
Please do "What if everything went Perfect for Romania" it would be a great continuation for Eastern Europe "what if"s
Good choice with the classical music for the background.
I'm waiting for how the Polish Commonwealth could survive. in the 18th century.
One interesting idea that I thought of a couple days ago was the idea for a challenge where one would get a couple other alternate history people together, and they're all given a point of divergence and an end point for a timeline, and they're each given a week to write out how the divergence would lead to said outcome (not like a full story or anything, just a set of relevant events) and are then judged based on how believable their timelines are.
For example, one possible subject (albeit difficult) would be challenging them to write a believable timeline for how Kagamine Rin/Len becoming cultural icons instead of Hatsune Miku ends up resulting in global thermonuclear war by 2018.
GREAT VIDEO BROTHER
What program do you use to change/color your maps?
It's BEAUTIFUL
Pls make this an interaction game to play by videos
Wow I love this music. I know what it is.
Hey Possible History, I have been making history and alternate history videos for a few weeks now and was wondering if you had any advice for running an alternate history channel?
It'd be cool to continue this scenario.
I would love to see video abou what if everything went perfect for Polish-Lituanian commonwealth next.
5:49 Nice, the Polish government just left 4-5 million Poles outside of thier state.
And now I feel the need to play Europa Universalis as Poland.. again ;]
11:00 could make Lusatia independent and join the intermarium
Thank you for this intro as a Pole ❤ But Poland break up from Communism in 1989, not 1991
need a part 2
Can't wait for the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth episode
1:00 you mean 1989?
Yes bro I’m from Poland great video
Kinda missed on the thumbnail not having a Prussia with the angriest eyes possible
you should make a video where you look at the worst possible situation for the soviet union where they still defeat germany
Man, it would be so interesting to see my country in that way.
I would realy like if you do "what if everthink went perfect for Bohemia or Czechoslovakia. I think that could be interestink
Are you related to Swinceball in some way cuz your upload schedules are very similar, and you uploaded at the same hour today.
If we're talking about things going perfect, one possible additional point of departure could be getting Germany to promise to support the 'create a bulwark against the Communists' coalition in exchange for a less punitive peace treaty. The Weimar government was pretty concerned about the Communists as well, and if you take away some of the humiliation, the hyperinflation issues stemming from the war reparation payments, and keep the territory transfers to actual Polish-majority regions, the rise of extreme nationalism in Germany might have been prevented and Germany might have instead followed a trajectory closer to post-WW2 Germany.
What about the Caucasus countries in this scenario? I imagine with them outside Poland's alliance, Stalin would just overrun them later on and regain the oil in Azerbaijan. I also imagine Ataturk in Turkey would also want to stick his spoon in the Caucasus pot and stir things around.
The fun thing is that intermarrium is more probable NOW than it was 100 years ago.
YEA BABY THAT WHAT I WAITET FOR
What if Novgorod united Russia?
For April Fools can you please do "what if everything went perfect for the Emus in Australia"
Do a part 2!!!
cant wait for the modern update where Poland can finally into space
1:04 w 1991 o ile się nie mylę rozpadł się związek radziecki, polska uwolniła się w 1989
Sugestion:What if everything went perfect for Croatia?
If everything went perfect for Possible History, he wouldn't have had an intermission right at the end of the video.
T-t-two Polish episodes ??? You mak me fell good.
Perfect Video to watch when insomnia kicks in!
(I cannot sleep, plz help)
Suggestion: What if everything went perfect for Korea
To be fair, I think Hungary could have actually ended up joining the Intermarium since the Poles and Hungarians had a history of kinship since the Mongol conquest days up to that point.
Hungarians would never give up their claims though
Make a scenario about if Africa was united (Scenario 1: slowly unifying smaller states; Scenario 2: Immediate unification of Africa post-colonial (Scenario 2.1 Every empire makes their African colonies go independent together; Scenario 2.2: Fully colonized by one empire E.g Portugal)