Are You Folding TOO MUCH to Aggression?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2024
- Today, Bart takes a call where the Hero makes a small flush on the turn and then is put to the test when the board pairs on the river. He and Bart discuss his decision point.
0:00 - Intro
1:02 - Preflop
3:40 - Flop
7:53 - Turn
9:39 - River
11:58 - Hero decision
12:07 - Reveal
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I like the sigh call here.
15" POKER HAAAAARRRRDDD
I love these videos. I swear to god, I learn more for you just talking than channels that beat the solver drum to death. Just keep talking brother
Yes, this is 'sneaky teaching' for sure. I've learn't so much from Bart.
Some players will jam with AQ on the river thinking they are now winning. I think sometimes we need to remember that overthinking situations can be detrimental because not all players are thinking at these same levels
Exactly right couldn't have said it better myself.
Disagree. Even below average player would notice the possible flush and the hero aggression on the turn.
@@korkynelson they notice the flush but they are constantly overplaying hands without thinking. They see they made 3 of a kind on the river and ship it. There’s not that much thought going on. You have to meet your opponents with the same level of thought they have, otherwise you end up making folds like this
@@theauthorisnotdead6080 Exactly! There are a ton of "overthinkers" in the comment section spewing all sorts of nonsense. Many players hit TPTK and they just barrell away, it's just that simple. Everyone isn't thinking like Phil Ivey.
@@korkynelson And give up with trips? What are you smoking? YOU might assume you're always up against the nuts but not everyone thinks like that (nor should they)
this is probably a fold but id say its close. theres not many bluffs for him to have. hes played this exactly like he has a set up til river. its easy to look at the math and say im getting over 3:1, dont have to be good often. but 3:1 isnt profitable if hes basically never bluffing here. and in a vacuum i feel like they probably arent bluffing this spot often. i do know this: if im villain and i got here like this with 88/77/QQ im open jamming river for sure thinking 'he cant fold his flush getting over 3:1'.
Loving the daily videos Bart. I watch every single one. Great as always!
Probably a lie. If he had AQs then the only possible suits are hearts and spades. These are different colors and it should be easy to remember your exact hand. He didn't remember what suit the last Q was so he said AQ suited. His initial flop bet was less than 1/4 pot and then he 3bet. This is a very nutted action. Queens need more protection than sets and I would expect him to bet flop larger especially 3 handed or just call the raise with a pair of Queens. Coupled with your read of him being on the tighter side, I would say good fold.
When you call bets with 67s you need to be ready to call when you hit your flush especially when you get such good pot odds.
Exactly, those odds are just too good to let it go.
Right. Otherwise just fold the 3-bet on the flop.
That's pretty terrible advice. You might as well say you should always get it in post flop with AA because you started it with a raise. Poker is a dynamic game and things change from street to street, committing yourself to getting all of your chips and just because you hit " your hand " is a surefire way to go broke.
@@ticenits1926 this exactly! One aspect of being a winning player is not allowing yourself to lose big pots that you should’ve gotten away from.
Sure, the vast majority of the time if you’re going to play 76s you’re not folding when you hit your flush. But that doesn’t mean you should blindly get it in every time. Villain’s line screamed boat.
Bart also didn’t mention Q8s (2 combos) and Q7s (1) as a possibility. Those are both on the edge of playability from HJ.
I have a hard time seeing AQ take this line. 3 betting the flop I suppose is possible since he went small on his first bet, maybe trying to induce a wild raise from Hero. But also shoving into the aggressor on the river? Targeting what? Two pair? KQ? And surely he didn’t turn his trips into a bluff.
Totally justifiable fold. Maybe a call is okay given the pot odds but I really don’t think Hero wins 24% of the time here.
This would be a pretty absurd line from AcQx… villain would have to 1) put in an ambitious bet-3bet on the flop, 2) x/c a decent sized bet on a flush completing turn, and then 3) make trips on the river and decide AQ isn’t good enough to check and needs to bluff (or he could be going for value with AcQx maybe?)
With the pot odds it’s probably a call because if we fold a flush he’s getting an amazing price on a bluff. But he probably just had 88
An absurd line from top pair top kicker?? Nit alert!
@@paulpena5040 I’m guessing you mean on the flop, yeah I think that’s a very loose bet 3 bet on the flop. Bart even says b3b with an overpair in that spot is an overplay. But okay, say you did do that. Are you calling a large bet on the flush completing turn when most of our semi bluff range on the flop gets there and you’re drawing dead against a set or a flush?
_if we fold a flush he’s getting an amazing price on a bluff._ you believe he is gonna do that every time in same situation, and while OOP, and often bluffing than V-bet, so, we could end up winning on a long run (even now losing to the nuts)?
@@pot_kivach160 I’m just saying from a MDF standpoint he is risking 1200 to win 2400, which means his bluff only has to work 1/3 of the time (actually a little less because the pot is 2670), which means we need to defend a little more than 2/3 of the time for his bluff to not be printing money. So having a flush and blocking 77 means that in theory this probably fits into the top 70ish percent of our range and so for that reason is a square call
@@nickmullen402 there a big hole in that logic (just like in the entire MDF theory!??) - you disregarded few of HUGE facts: 1) V is a tight aggressive player, 2) V 3-bet OOP on the flop 3) V called 80% pot turn bet. You still suggest V is weak here 33% of time?
Yeah, I'm vested on the turn, I'm calling the river win or lose! 😎👍✌🎄🎅
In it to win it, the odds were too good for a fold.
Only card that gives me pause is maybe Kc but after turn it's a crying call probably on any river.
Another example of how I always like having a pot sized bet left on the river. If we bet smaller on the turn and villain jams river for a pot sized bet maybe we can better justify a fold
love your content!!!
From the games I play in, I read the villian as AQ. Scary but easy call.
So is he betting AQ for value given the low SPR, or is he lead jamming less than half pot as a bluff after rivering trips?
3bet the flop with AQ? Nah. He had 88.
@@nickmullen402 He’s hit the best hand he can hope for and is now pot committed. To a point, it’s a hope and pray value bet
@@nickmullen402 I think it's the latter. In my experience, when many players get into a pot this deep, they don't consider fold equity. Half their money is in the pot = pot committed.
@@DeluviumOfficial Exactly.
Bad size on the turn but we’re getting over 3-1 on the river. It’s a snap
why is the turn bad sizing??
I disagree with the action OTT. I think if you look at vills 3bet range OTF, it consists of combo draws with higher clubs, sets, or overpairs (I guess). Vill has a ton of equity. The $800 bet gives you an awkward spot OTR. I like a small bet OTT or checking. If vill really has overpairs like hero describes, why couldn't you extract value from them OTR if the river card is okay and vill checks to you?
Without reading comments, and just hearing the flop 3 bet. I feel the caller is correct. This is a big pair. Wouldn't be remotely surprised if he had AA here
If you aren't going to call with 3:1 pot odds when you hit your flush, why are you even playing suited connectors to begin with?
In the past month I have seen 3 hands with the type of board texture (flush draw and straight draw avail) and the pfr 3! Top/Top on the flop
There's a poker theorem that says all flop 3 bets are a bluff, and if you think about it it makes sense. If you had the nuts you would never re-raise to fold someone out, and if you don't have the nuts you need to always be afraid that your opponent does since they raised you.
@@ticenits1926 i love your name
"Small stakes exploit" at 10-10-20
If people are so bad there, he might overvalue his Trips here?
This is possible, I play there too and what he said about the players there is true. There’s a chance the guy saw a third queen and jumped out of his shoes, or just said eff it all in because he didn’t know what to do in that spot
@@SwoleFish25 Yes, the ”I don’t know what to do so I bet/shove” is probably more common than we think… Like the value bluff, feels like a value bet but will only get called by better. But he should probably mentally prepare for 88 and sigh call here, there are enough bluffs and value bluffs. Edit: for this sizing.
This was my thought. If he thought this guy might overvalue an overpair on the flop, how can he not also think he might value trips with 1/3 behind.
I don't think overvalued hand is possible here.
Imo this is AQ 80% of the time.
Check raise top pair.
Check flush.
Then shove when hit trips. This is literally how most basic regs play..
If you're flatting 67s in position, flopping pairs and turning flushes then folding to top pair repeating, you should reconsider if you should be playing these stakes..
6:07 I think i've been evaluating this position incorrectly. KsKd is an underdog to 6c7c on this flop, that surprised me.
That's why they call it a mondo draw
Bart's poker mind is always so brilliant
I’d call here you block a set of 7s and one combo of quads is out there it’s almost like the only hand you lose to is pocket 8s
GOOD FOLD.
A. Villain is tight
B. Hero bet 75% on a flushed turn. Villain knows his spot
= No bluffs here.
The only reason to call here is if a bad-player-villain thinks hero is betting the turn with QhKc type of hand and jams to avoid decision making if hero jams. Very rare
By the river, he is trying to tell the story that he has 88 only as far I would be concerned. It’s possible AQ could be turned into a bluff when clearly represent the flush. Hi long tank on the turn might induce a call from me. I would think a decision one way or another would be more straight forward on the turn if I had set.
15" POKER HAAAAARRRRDDD
Just jam the turn. Then you avoid this problem both on the actual runout and also if another club comes.
Hey Bart, I know you play Double board PLO bomb pots on poker bros. What club do you think is good on Poker bros?
Or Anyone else lol
only have to be right 1 in 4 times for this river call to be profitable. Gotta call and pay him off if he has it.
@@jbphilly1234 fair. I can see folding with a specific live read. I’m not even sure I believe the AQs story either. V played it more like 88
They have their own room for the ten-ten, Bart you should definitely come down, the poker room is phenomenal, great food and dining area IN THE ROOM, and the players are practically giving away money, so many splashy, not nuanced players. As long as you do not get unlucky, there is a ton of money to be made.
I don't see why a 3-bet on the flop is bad with AQ, AA or KK. There are sooooo many natural bluffs from the button, JTss, JTcc, T9s, 65s, J9cc, J9ss. hero is repping only 8 combos of value on the flop and his raise size is minuscule... he is laying better than 4:1 odds by making it $150 on the flop. If I have AQ I'm three betting this flop all day versus this raise size and checking turn, Jamming river is questionable tho. I think villain was telling the truth in this hand.
yeah? Aren't you scared of call your 3bet flop, and followed by 80% pot turn bet?? So, you just OOP shove river into a tight good player?
He saying AA KK AQ QQ and rare occasion 88 when he 3bet flop. I would make the call on River.
If you catch your flush with 67s how do you not get it all in lol
also i like to 4bet jam the flop because i would want to 4 bet jam my sets so we can have some bluffs too it's fine
@@jbphilly1234 how do you know he's not folding YOU DON'T. Don't be obtuse.
My cat is awesome! 🥰
Why are you mentioning your cat…
hahahahaah
love the confusion everybody have
Cats are the definition of cool. Your cat ever spazz-bluff-shove into the nuts? Probably, knowing it's your cat, but you'd never know it.
I play suited connectors 3-way on a raise pot if you’re just gonna fold the exact hand you were hoping to hit ? You’re only losing to 88 there really. If he has better flush so be it. He doesn’t have QQ, 77, or 55.
SNAP CALL not too excited about it but it seems trivial to call xD
8:19. How come? H can have 67c, but V is not allowed to have higher flush? 9Tc?...J9c, JTc, KJc, AKc, AJc, A4c, A3c, A2c?? Higher flush make absolute sense to me...I believe that's what V had or set of 88, the way he played.
V says he has AQ SUITED? How does that make sense lol only AQ with A of clubs is a bluff
8:15 "So he 3 bets, and then checks" That maxim isn't just for pre-flop? If you three bet anywhere in the hand, you should be c-betting the next street? Did I miss that in my poker studies?
10/10/20 is small stakes ?
I like the call pf in this spot, it's very hard to isolate when so many people already have money in the pot and this hand plays well multi-way in position. Flop play is standard. Sizing on the turn is a little too big imo, you're trying to get a call from one pair hands so I think 1/2 psb works better. River is a call, villain has more Qx in his range than anything. Interestingly, if we go back to preflop and 3-bet, we are now getting all the money in by the turn and life is much easier.
Opponent probably put caller on KQ and shoved for value, lol.
Why is 3 bet represented as 3! Instead of 3B
On the river isn't this a clear example of a bluff catching scenario? And what bluffs could his opponent really have?
I suppose there's a small chance of AQ being overplayed.
I don't know if this is that bad a fold. It's weird that the villain turned AQ into a bluff. Hero should really always have a set or flush here the way this played. Maybe he convinced himself hero had 87. Sometimes bad plays work *because* they're bad. Since AQ really should not shove this river. This board texture & betting action screams pat hands. Perhaps villain does not realize he is representing the nut flush+
horrid fold
Calling.
Turn bet is way too big, can't we just bet 510 and then we have 3/4 pot or so left to play on the river? As it is we can't fold, the pot odds are too good.
Call. Qx semi bluffs here. 88 probably doesn’t reraise flop hoping to trap. QQ goes bigger preflop.
Naaa he has 88
Before reveal...on flop no way if I have Q I'm folding to a raise unless I misunderstood Bart...as played call all day.
Calling 1.2k to win a 5k pot, with a flush there, how could you fold unless you have a soul read on the villain?
Why not overbet the pot on turn and take yourself out of a guessing game on the river?
Why not shut the hand down and get no value ? Smh
@@lukixpogo2254 because he'll call all the hands for 1,100 or so that he called 800 with then a call of his river shove becomes routine based on pot odds.
i honestly dont think that even a huge 2x pot overbet turn jam is all that bad here. the solvers do like it sometimes and this intuitively feels like a spot where it could be profitable. and just to be clear youre not doing it to avoid playing a river, youre doing it if you think theyre calling with AcAx, KcKx, or sets.
I think the overbet is a double advantage. You charge him the most possible and you create a pot to remaining stacks ratio that makes you unbluffable on the river.
AQ with Tampa players will think this is the nuts.
Tampa here. It ain't?🤔
@@Eric-tj3tg we know "it ain't"...but Tampa thinks it is.
@@uup116 That sir, was the funny I intended. Cheers!
God damn I can't believe you folded that s***!! But everyone plays the own way I guess
I love Bart’s content and channel and love that so many people who watch these videos have great poker minds. I learn a ton from Bart but a lot from the peeps in the comments.
FWIW, I believe Villain has 88. I think he would be willing to tell hero he had QQ but he knew hero had the flush and went for the bluff.
This hand is why I don't like suited connectors. If you get any action, you're probably no good.
Lol I play in this game all the time. AA and KK is never 3 betting the flop in this game
I throw up in my mouth a little as I slide in the calling chips
NIT fold…. 3 to 1 to call
If someone calls in with a poker game you haven't played in you should give them 10$ off of a CLP Subscription. Or maybe an arby's gift card.
Hey spot me I win…anyone can get a percentage. Don’t ignore this!!
get a job
No
Sighing but beating him into the pot
That's why I'm jamming this turn. Just 2x the pot and take it down.
Obvious and likely AQ hand. Snap call.
I like the fold, what on earth do we beat?
We don’t beat much outside of a bluff against a thinking player, but against many unseasoned players who overvalue hands…it’s a different situation. From his explanation of the players in that card room, the latter seems to be the case but 🤷🏾♂️
Guess It’d depend on the live read.
Aq? Qx? Overpairs holding a club????? Should I continue?
@@whirlingdervish69 since most of these hands are never jamming river in a million years id say no you can probably stop.
This seems to me like "afraid of monsters under the bed" type of situation. People want to always think that the opponent has us beat. If the villain was the one who called, we would be saying you need to get value from worse Q's and possibly overpairs that think you could be bluffing. You can't play this game and think you are always beat just because someone shows aggression. Too many players are not studied and we give them too much credit, when they don't know what they are doing.
nothing! And nobody. The only hand H beats are: 23c, 24c, 34c or a lunatic who sure, was not sitting in the HJ chair. Very good play by H.
Horrible fold
Anyone else love sweating bets at the casino while playing poker
Ew ew ew ew ew all street disaster
This dude probably did have AQs.
Ac Qx and knew the hero didn’t have the nut flush to bet £800 on the turn.
I’m never folding here. If he has 88 than so be it. I think he has way more losing hands here and I’m getting great odds.
which losing hands?