Watch the video that started it all - our Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame review: th-cam.com/video/Ysb25vsNBQI/w-d-xo.html We're running low on our 3D Drink Coaster Packs! These custom-designed, PC-themed coasters support our in-depth testing work and get you a high-quality, unique product in return! We have no current plans to re-order the current coaster designs, but these will be part of a collectible series. If you've wanted some, get them before they're gone! store.gamersnexus.net/products/3d-coaster-pack-4-component-coasters Watch our Thermalright $4 contact frame review: th-cam.com/video/iYU1OskbY-Q/w-d-xo.html
Good stuff chaps. I was interested that in the body of the piece that the thermal differences between the other two and the Thermal Grizzly frame were repeatable; then later said they were within test variance (error bars). Would it be possible to list the constraints considered when arriving at the variance?
I misread the title for a moment and thought there was a frame going for $800. Comparing $8 frame to $800 frame. lol I was like WUT! What is it made of? How good is it? Why does this exist? lol But now that I understand I can watch the video without nearly passing out.
You guys should get into optical flats, surface matching and all that machinist goodness. The benefits outweigh the costs. Plus, it's really funny watching people gasp when you rub together your cpu and cooling surface and suspend hundreds of dollars on atom tightness, waving it around like a madman. :))
Completely lost it when I saw the picture in the frame :D Also big credits to Steve for reviewing all these with the same standard even though we are friends. The professional approach GN has is a highlight in our industry. Hope we will see these pressure maps again after the CPU is lapped.
Just curious - how come that Thermalright gives quite alot better contact than yours? Mounting tips to make your frame to make as even pressure as possible? I mean, its about 25eur price diff between yours & thermalright one..
@@ChrizzyReviews Have we watched the same video? As in this current video only with the 12900KS the pressure map is better with the Thermalright frame. On both other CPUs the Grizzly frame offer noticeably better pressure distribution. About the costs: Walmart and Thermalright produce their products likely in China. The material itself(!) is about 5$ in US, as explained in a previous GN video. Grizzly produce their frame in Germany, where the workers wages are like at least 10 times or so higher than in China. Hence the substantially higher product cost. Depends on you which kind of trade / production policy you want to support.
Do you know if a Intel 12900k warps to a point of no return when using the Intel LGA 1700 retention bracket or I could I salvage mine with your LGA 1700 retention product? I am hitting temps of 45-65C at idle and while gaming or benchmarking I am hitting 100C thus throttling. I don't want to risk voiding my warranty with Intel if I am at the point of no return and could not benefit from your product or a competitor. I have applied Thermal Grizzly cpu paste twice and I have a Lian Li AIO 360 Galahad cooler and I can't get back to normal temps where I was prior to repasting due to me moving my pc parts to a new case. Is it possilbe to warp an Intel 12900k cpu that badly with Intel's LGA 1700 socket retention bracket??
Oh the _frame_ at the front with a photo of DerBauer. No wonder you found these small size frames in the home deco section! You're putting them to great use! Maybe a "our team" section when you walk in to your new office with passport photos of everyone hung up in these?
@@syntextoxyronin1399 For Example at 2:10 at the left Corner you will see Der8auer as Passphoto in his own made Frame. I think his was the first one as well. But its kinda expensive if i am not mistaken since its made in Germany and its just not comparable with other Country’s like China (which all other Frames are made at as far as i know).
Hardware is now days not included by count but by weight. Plastic washers are very difficult to weigh right when packaging, so usually the rule is to pack a weight of at least n+1 units. Customers might receive 5, 6 or even 7, because the aim if for 5 or more since 4 are needed, but due to measurement errors it could happen that only be 4 get packed on some occasions. Having a target weight of 5 thus ensures that 4 will definitely be in each package, because it is highly unlikely that the weight of 3 washers will pass the more than n+1 rule.
Probably some shop in China saw those frames and thought “humm, we have a CNC machine too, maybe we can make the…” Listing it under “wall decor” works too, especially if you mount a 12/13th gen onto the wall with these.
When you picked it up to go over to the wall, I was immediately disappointed that you hadn't put a small hanger on the wall to hang it. WALL decor, not SHELF trinket!
I just find it hilarious that such a product is even necessary. Oh Intel... As to the extra washers; that's actually a good thing. Once upon a time is was normal to get extra hardware with a product, just in case you dropped something and lost it. Nothing is more frustrating than having to go the the hardware store (or worse, have to wait weeks for special hardware to be shipped) in the middle of putting something together.
What's more hilarious is 99% of reviewers who gloss it over or pretend it's not an issue when down the road we'll probably see a boat load of dead LGA 1700 socket CPU's from heat stress.
@@glitter_fart At the end Steve basically says that "(Walmart)is significantly better then the stock ILM just like the thermal grizzly and thermalrite options and there really isn't that much of a difference between any of them, for thermal performance they're all about the same".
Yep. These after market frames have always been much better it's just that they were fairly pointless, and therefor not well known, til several years ago. Don't hold you breath on these full frames being common though cause motherboard manufacturers are designing for mass market which means the simple lever frames will basically always be the standard.
@@glitter_fart A product review isn't "shitting on it". You go over the good, the bad, the comparisons, the relevant information, and the necessary context. That's how this works. And, frankly, going by how despite being better, it's still lacking in terms of features compared to even the inexpensive Thermalright frame, you may as well spend literally a couple of dollars more and have a significant improvement over the stock or WalMart variants.
Your pressure maps are amazing. When I was swapping out my stock ILM with the TR contact frame, The thermal paste left an identical pattern to your pressure map, with a considerably thicker layer left behind on the side facing the memory. Crazy to see such a small outlet doing the best testing in the business currently.
I'm just... Thermal Grizzly and Thermal Rite are specialist brands. But like... how embarrassed should Intel be to get beaten by WALMART at it's own job?
_To be fair_ the contact frame is a semi-permanent solution, and something you _can_ fuck up if you get overzealous with the torque. And ymmv regarding the actual benefits of it, on a more reasonable power load with a more reasonable cooling solution the benefits can be pretty marginal.
I'll be honest with you. It takes you minimal skills and ... maybe 50~100copeikistany doolaridoos (depending on how far you wanna go down the rabbit hole) worth of tools to make your own matched CPU/cooler setup. We used to do this kind of sh!t back in the day all the time, when tolerances were... nonexistent. I remember when you had to screw these things down and you'd hear the board creak because the damned things were uneven and paste would squeeze from one side more than the other. All things considered, things are much better today. And consider that back then both heat expenditure and performance were much lower. You could cool a whole laptop with a fan that's not even adequate to cool a modern gaming cellphone these days. So back to the point, if you match your CPU to your cooler, you don't even need the frame.
@@SaltyMaud What are you even being fair about. Intel made a very simplistic error that a very slightly different design would fix. These are even simpler CNC machine solutions. Be less fair. You didn't have to make that comment because no one talked about anything you said.
Heavily impressed that chinese walmart brand beats international INTEL in performance and cooling. Just... wow. If I had an Intel CPU, I'd definitely be investing in one of these.
I think testing with a lapped CPU would be interesting. Thermal Grizzly has a tool that's supposed to aid in the lapping process that you could check out as well!
These frames are made for an unlapped cpu with raised edges, I might be wrong but it seems to me like using them on a product that differs in spec would do more harm than good.
@@andrewszerbiak7330 Fun fact: If you're really careful you can "mill" a car cylinder head and do the same with glass and a jig. My brother did it and used a multi layer steel head gasket which requires the flattest surface of all the head gaskets.
@@papajavaleri I can't imagine the little set screws that lightly torque onto the board are correcting a raised edge IHS. Flat (lapped) is best. Shouldn't be removing enough material to effect a heat sink mount, or socket bracket interference.
Walmart is 3 steps ahead of us. When you eventually have to upgrade your motherboard after this next intel gen you wont need the frame anymore and you can throw it on the wall with a photo inside.
Thanks for these videos Steve. I brought a thermalright contact frame. Took 3 weeks to arrive. I saw a drop of 5 degrees on a 12600KF that has been overclocked to 4.9 P cores and 3.9 for the E cores.
Could not get the TG frame (out of stock) but I got the TR one and used TG grease to feel better and more loyal to DerBauer 😃 It did help thermals noticeably no more throttling with the same config. Yeah the TR one was super easy to install since it just bottoms out.
To make it easier to get the plastic washers on first time, you should put something through the hole, like a small bolt or the torx tool they provide, and then slide the washer over it onto the contact frame.
Thank you so much for those videos. I just recently decided to upgrade my pc and I just ordered the Thermalright frame while I wait for the rest of my parts. Might as well install this right from the start.
Basically, these things are not actually that complicated or hard to make, pick your thermals reducing poison based on your budget, time constraints, and values. 😁
Not hard to make but Chinese can't even copy the perfect design that Thermal Grizzly made, come on, is it that hard to just make the same design and everything like Thermal Grizzly perfect product and just sell it for 8 $, they would make a lot of money, but if they are lazy or not smart enough to do it and just make's some crappy frame.
@@joshj3369 Copying the design is easy, manufacturing it to spec and doing it cheaply is difficult. I think it's the price that stops them because if the copy costs nearly as much as the real one then people will just pick the real one.
I build pre-fabricated power plants (up to 140 MW) for a living. When sending equipment to site, we always through in a few extra of each type of fastener, because someone will always drop/lose a nut, bolt, or washer. So extra washers in your package, gives me a warm and fuzzy.
Wall Decor... That got me in stitches :D There is old joke about a Novoruskij (term for a Russian guy who quickly got rich after fall of USSR, they are known for tasteless, gaudy style they use everywhere to show off). He built his Dacha (villa) and gave a tour of his friend - all 40 rooms, 20 bathrooms, 5 garages, etc. And after they come out he asks - "How do you like it, friend?" - "Well, I liked most of it, but you know... there is one thing that bothers me much... The third bathroom, why these metal tiles on the wall?!" - "Oh friend, let's go back there!" After they reach said bathroom, Novoruskij pulls out one of the tiles from the wall and shows to his friend: "Look! A Pentium 4!"
Waited a few weeks for an order of the Thermal Grizzly frame but it never came into stock. Saw the previous video on the Thermal Right frame and bought one on Amazon for about half the price of the Thermal Grizzly. It worked. 12900k was constantly going into 90s under load prior with massive temperature spikes all over the place with the Intel frame. Not only did the contact frame lower temps under load by approximately the same amount as seen here, but the temps were much more consistent. No thermal throttling any more, though I had undervolted prior to the change of frame and left the same values applied as it was perfectly stable. I'm not an XOC guy, but it's nice to know that I have some headroom if I wanted it now.
Oh, I should add that it's on an open loop with 3*140mm radiators and a 3090. The 3090 would comfortably pull 600w with no temperature issues (back-plate cooler also), the 12900k with Intel's frame couldn't cope with 250w...
@@williampinnock2256 CPUs have significantly more heat density-that's why they typically have an IHS to increase the surface area. GPU dies on the other hand (especially on the 3090) are absolutely massive, which makes them easier to cool using brute force. That's also the reason why the 5800X is harder to cool than the 5900/5950X-it has less physical die space to dissipate heat.
@@steph_on_yt yeah, I appreciate that, but 3*140mm radiators for a CPU should be massive overkill in cooling for a desktop product, and the fact that it was overheating was entirely down to the poor design of the Intel CPU frame to my mind, well that and the excess power requested. It would overheat even when not running the GPU beyond idle. I thought the issue with the 5800X3D was down to trying to cool the die through the stacked cache chips in part though.
@@williampinnock2256 due to fierce competition, pretty much all major manufacturers are now pushing their products far past their efficiency ranges in order to attain maximum performance. Pascal (for Nvidia) and Haswell (for Intel) were arguably the best showcases of power efficiency due to lack of pushes from their competitors. Now, we have gaming GPUs pushing past the 400W range and consumer CPUs exceeding the 250W range at *stock* settings... and it's only gonna get worse. The ILM sucks, yeah, but it's acceptable enough for Intel to give it a stamp of approval. The main problem, really, is that good ILMs (like the dual lever Intel HEDT sockets) are either too expensive, or (in the case of these contact frames) not idiot proof. People were already complaining about the cost of 12th gen motherboards due to the price increase in the ILM cost; imagine what that would be like with the nicer dual lever version.
This doesn’t matter but technically they’re sold on Walmart’s third party marketplace, not “sold by Walmart”. It would be like calling TG’s frame “Amazon’s contact frame” because it was sold on amazon.
This is a pretty personal comment... I've been feeling really down today (bipolar depression.) Nothing has been able to make me smirk, or get my spirits and energy back up. But this video just made my day! Dunno why, but it was able to hold my attention and get me to smile a lot, and I had belly-laughs from the Roman gag. 😆Thanks for keeping me sane today. 💚 On a less personal note... Great video, guys. Always impressed by your comprehensive testing. I don't use one now, but might be building a Raptor Lake PC next year, so the contact-frame series may be useful to me.
I just want to add that if you want to ensure the screws stay in place, use loctite on the screws. It's what we do with car engines when we torque them properly.
I feel like you should test two last frames: 1. The 枫造 (Feng Zao) fiberglass frame 2. A 3D printed frame - to see if you could just print one at home if you got a printer
Mhm these may need to be tested against creep for at least 2 weeks, or longer, especially 3D print. There's also so many materials to choose from, PETG, HIPS/ASA, PA+CF...
@@SianaGearz PA60 Glass fiber reinforced is really the best material, even for the temps seen in a CPU. If we're talking about plastics, 3d printing aside, plastic extruded with molds is still king for industrial manufacturing when speaking of plastics.
5 washers makes sense. Pretty standard to get spares with all PC components. A part that costs one penny is likely easier to include vs dealing with returns when someone drops a small part and loses it
Well, obviously it's wall decor. Those screw holes are perfectly placed to be screwed into standard studs in US homes. Also, that picture of der8auer in his Contact Frame looks like it belongs at his funeral...are you trying to tell us something Steve? 🤨
Walmarts online store like Amazon has third party vendors that deliver direct - the product info isn’t reviewed or approved (aka wallmart wasn’t the seller)
Hoping you’ll have a quick look at the AM5 stock mechanism (and potentially 3rd party options in case should some be available) once the platform drops
Der Bauer already did. His own company has rubber washers that give a better seal for people that change coolers and overclock. The metal shim is not necessary and would short out the surface mounted components in the notches. No the stock mechanism is not bad like Intel and the back plate on AMD boards is robust but different between the AM4 and AM5.
Having bought the drink coasters, I can vouch for their quality. Not exactly worth it for me including shipping and import tax if I was looking for _just a four-pack of coasters_ That's not the point, though. Most products, like the GN coasters, in my opinion, are to show support to the creator in a non-donation way, as in, one gets something in return for their charity.
I see things like that as you do, plus a hobby related collectable or themed piece, which doesn't always have to be a logical price, but even with that said the GN coasters are bar quality, which is awesome.
This tells you something about the sad state that Intel is in as a company. This is an obvious problem that causes the processor to over-heat and throttle, specially on a CPU that runs hot by default. Intel hasn't done a thing to resolve it, and looks like the 13th gen CPU may come with the same heat spreader and retainer! It looks like they spent 5 minutes and $5 designing the whole socket assembly on the 1700 series.
It's mostly a motherboard manufacturer problem. Intel already has a better ILM design with two levers that's significantly better and manufacturers choose not to use it. Regardless no sane mobo manufacturer would ever use a frame that a customer needs to precisely screw in. Practically no customers know what torque is so the lever type frames are a necessity and pretty much all system integrators want the convenience of levers so they can build out systems faster. Screw on ILMs will always be an after market thing.
@@Glornak Thread ripper screw down and they work fine. They include a small torque wrench with the CPU. You are making it sound like an impossible task but it has already been solved and exists in the consumer space.
@@steampunkskunk3638 Threadripper is hardly a consumer chip and it's far from mass market. It's a low volume enterprise grade CPU meant for servers. Intel Xeon uses screw on frames too but that doesn't change the fact that 99% of AMD and intel's CPUs use lever based ILMs.
@@Glornak where is this 'better ILM design', why is it being kept under the wrap. Motherboard manufacturers go by Intel's design to honor the Intel warranty. How come all MOBO makers use the same lame design? did they all contract the same virus? Intel could have gotten in front of it late last year and save a lot of people lots of hassle.
@@ha8290 Nothing is being "kept under wrap" lol. The two lever design was introduced and briefly used on the LGA 2011 socket before manufacturers chose to abandon it and go back to the cheaper single lever. Unless Intel stops approving the single lever manufacturers will always choose the cheaper option. And why would they ban it? There's only a few very expensive Intel CPUs where throttling is gonna happen without overclocking. If it's just the idea that Temps would be better so they should require it then why isn't AMD getting criticised for their crappy single lever design?
Would love to see these pressure tests done with the new AM5 CPU's & boards as well given AMD also uses a 1 lever ILM and could potentially have the same issues.
If derBauer was on it he'd be hard at working getting something like this to market for AMD. AND getting in to Amazon so Americans can buy them. Maybe he's behind the 8 ball.
The AM5 design isn't likely to have this issue, as the ILM is still square and smaller. Intel's choice in a larger ILM seems to be a large part of the issue, which was seen in the early reports of CPU's bending in the motherboards.
Thanks for pointing out so clearly that the Thermal Grizzly isn't supposed to rest on the board but floats over it with a small gap. (I should be able to slide a thin piece of cardstock under the edge then?) I don't remember this being specifically mentioned in the original TG review. Glad I saw this before putting my new build together in the next day or so.
When I first put my computer together, I thought something was wrong with the socket since it closed so hard. I thought for sure it was going to ruin my CPU. I'm glad to see more of these hitting the market. I finally went ahead and ordered the Thermalright one. I'll find out how much of an improvement it is in a month or so when it gets here.
Just a question, why does the pressure map different between 12700, 12900, and 12900KS, should not be the same CPU form? or is it cause the IHS is a little bent for some of the items, I mean if you bought another 12700 will it be different? does lapping help with changing the pressure map? As I see 12700 is better in TG, almost equal in TR but for 12900KS it is a clear win for TR. How and why?
There is manufacturing variance in nearly every product. Machines are more accurate than us people, but they themselves are not perfect either. In fact, in the early days machines were a lot less reliable than people, it's the main reason Philips screw drivers took off as the machines didn't have to be as accurate to not shred the screw heads. These lower tier CPUs also get the lower quality heat spreaders as they make less heat than their higher end counterparts. In general, lapping a CPU can make it better, but it can also make it worse. Many coolers are designed with certain generations of CPUs in mind which either are concave or convex slightly so they tend to tune the coolers to be the opposite. If you just lapped one of them your temps may actually go up. If you're going to lap your CPU, you should also lap your cooler unless you are very certain it's completely smooth.
As another reply mentioned, there can be variations in the actual shape and smoothness of the heat spreader on the CPU itself. But what is also worth noting is the reason these contact frames exist in the first place. The stock ILM can cause bending/warping of the chip causing a dip in the center of the heat spreader. So it's possible the 12700 had spent some time in a stock ILM setup, and long enough to actually cause some warping and deformation of the chip leading to that gap in the middle.
You should send all of those frames to Buildzoid for testing memory overclocking. He's definitely one guy who knows what he is doing in that respect. Just a thought. o7
After seeing this, previous videos, and some people complaining about bad thermals on 12th gen CPU on forums out there. I refuse to buy any chip from intel that is *not* a perfect square. This is a bad design choice from Intel. It seems to me that Intel punish their customers for buying their product.
I love how Steve can acknowledge things like the personal ethics that come into play with manufacturing decisions without sounding preachy. “If that’s something you care about, great. If not you’ve got cheaper options.” It’s a little thing but I appreciate it.
@@evila9076 There isn't a way they could know, unless you send your motherboard back for RMA with that still on. If you call Intel for an RMA on the chip they may ask if you have one of these frames and XMP turned on. Just say no or that you don't know what that is and it should be good.
@@Skylancer727 even if you say yes, there is nothing they can do unless they can prove that it caused the damage. Also, what does XMP have to do with the CPU? That's a ram profile. Only the controller is on the CPU. A profile won't hurt anything on the CPU. Also, XMP is an Intel technology.
It really seems like the Thermalright solution is the best option, it outperforms the much more expensive Thermal Grizzly option at around 1/3 the price, but doesn't cut corners to the extent that the sketchier basic Walmart/generic versions do.
Couldn't find a thermal grizzly plate but I got a thermalright no problem. It was more like 16€ though. Totally worth it. My noctua cooler was having a hard time with my 12700k during certain games and certain tasks. After installing the thermalright contact plate it shaved off 10 to 15c during 4k video processing. It went from high 80s to low 70s. Crazy.
Love you guys been watching forever. Build my PC based on your benchmarks. Now I'm learning IT. Wanted to say thanks for helping to show the path. Linus is like the Pinky to Your Brain(Pinky & The Brain Cartoon) Mad respect for your nonbias reviews
Using a Thermalright one, after the 12700k temperature started to increase. Very decent piece of kit, more forgiving regarding torque and here helped dropping maximum temperature by 8C.
I’m surprised GN has done this many videos on this type of plate. Maybe it’s just me but it seems pretty niche. Love listening/ watching GN content though. Hope everyone is well!
The thermal grizzly now comes with its own set screws that are longer than stander intel screws for the ILM and they’re blacked and so they no longer have the witness marks on the frame but I still used the Intel screws installed by clocking the screws back 180 degree from fully torqued and it booted no problem Also can confirm it allows for extreme memory overclocking.
Using the Thermalright CPU contact frame on i7 12700 droped my temps for 7-9 degrees Celsius, depending on my rendering tasks. So in average I gained around 8 degree cooler CPU, and I would recommend this ILM "upgrade" :) My friend went with even cheaper FinalCool contact frame, and got the same results in his temps.
Initially, I thought it was "Thermal Grizzly has a solution to help Intel 12th Gen for extreme over clockers." Now it's "Walmart fixes Intel's technical problems." I really wonder how long before motherboard manufacturers put those in the box.
Really weird to see the Thermal Grizzly be the worst of these solutions. Every pressure test showed it either with most coverage around the center, or at least tied. Is it interfering with the cooler or something?
i would bet that the reason why is perfoming so poorly is because it is "free floating" and doesnt have the stopper or washers that the other solutions have, making it more difficult to get it right
Actually, all 3 frames perform the same. Steve compares the averages but the products are within the error range of each other, which means there are no significant differences (unless they ran a T-test but then they could have graphed the significance of the values).
I would think it's just manufacturing tolerance combined with a very sensitive testing process. I suspect that the differences will appear to be exaggerated than they really are. Also they used the same CPU and motherboard every time and individually or the combination could have resulted in the consistent lack of pressure across the bottom seen in the testing with some being worse than others.
The thought of some poor (possibly overworked and underpaid) assembly worker diving into a bag of washers to pick up a pinch of them and going "that about ought to be enough" and throwing it in the product bag is somewhat hilarious and depressing at the same time.
It's sometimes common practice to add the right amount plus a few extra. I made this policy in a company I worked for. What would happen before that is that sometimes people at home would lose a washer or a screw. So we would give everybody 4 of each, plus two extra. And yes, workers would count the 8 required items (4 screws, 4 washers) and than use the 'whatever' approach to add the extra stuff.
@@quintoblanco8746 I get the extra bits, the issue is the inconsistency which imho can be explained by a process which is clearly not automated and has some poor soul tasked with supplying the washers.
The thermal grizzly now comes with its own set screws that are longer than stander intel screws for the ILM and they’re blacked and so they no longer have the witness marks on the frame but I still used the Intel screws installed by clocking the screws back 180 degree from fully torqued and it booted no problem
This is why i take you for granted when its time for Pc buildiing and buying. Little thing like twating 4th party aftermarket product. I bought the thermalright am5 secure frame and thx to Steve, I had no hesitation.
Congratulations on a great video! 🤥 I know where you can get more than 78 free spins.Best choice. Os adversários perdia o jogo mas não deixava de respeitar o Ronaldinho gaúcho, sempre tinha um pra trocar camisa com ele.
You can machine a frame with as much as precision as you can but when you're using plastic washers or any non precision machined spacer you will always have random contact because of the tolerances on the plastic spacers.
@@Xenoray1 🤣🤣 I've heard that same line since 10th gen. *"wAiT UnTiL nExT gEn"* STFU 🤡. 3 whole generations of Intel (10th, 11th, 12th Gen) beaten by the 1 generation of Ryzen in Ryzen 5000. 😎👍 Ryzen 7000 is gonna make every Intel owner cry harder in a few weeks. 😈
The fact that more and more of these contact frames have to be made is just so disappointing from Intel. They really have to fix it for Meteor Lake. I hope there will be an option for a X299 2066 type contact frame for it.
My little Journey so far, RMA'd a 13900k RMA'd my 360mm Corsair h150i capellix Reinstalled my CPU and AIO Cooler Temps for the 13900k are still trending in the 70 to 75C Range while idle, gonna have to try this contact frame to see if it helps
I don't mind the extra washers, and honestly any self respecting enterprise should pack one extra of the little bits. If i meme a "broken stud", "lost washer" joke across my IT friends, they're all going to nod knowingly.
The extra washers seems standard to me, they weigh and cost almost nothing compared to the main item, the people packaging these count out four, and if they ever grab 2 at a time, doesn't matter, that is only one, and keep counting to four.
I was going to build a new system but after this debacle I am skipping 12th Gen altogether. I refuse to buy expensive gear and have to add my own silly piece of metal because frigging Intel couldn't design their motherboards properly.
I'm building a new rig and decided to go with AMD purely because of this issue. It seems like the fix is fairly simple, but given Intel's response ("it's no big deal! and taking off our faulty ILM voids your warranty!") and the fact that this an issue at all is just ridiculous. I don't want to reward that behavior. Intel can go ****** themselves.
i was looking for a benchmark between the different plates available. this is a good video! you should label it different so people like me find it bettter.
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Watch the video that started it all - our Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame review: th-cam.com/video/Ysb25vsNBQI/w-d-xo.html
We're running low on our 3D Drink Coaster Packs! These custom-designed, PC-themed coasters support our in-depth testing work and get you a high-quality, unique product in return! We have no current plans to re-order the current coaster designs, but these will be part of a collectible series. If you've wanted some, get them before they're gone! store.gamersnexus.net/products/3d-coaster-pack-4-component-coasters
Watch our Thermalright $4 contact frame review: th-cam.com/video/iYU1OskbY-Q/w-d-xo.html
Good stuff chaps. I was interested that in the body of the piece that the thermal differences between the other two and the Thermal Grizzly frame were repeatable; then later said they were within test variance (error bars). Would it be possible to list the constraints considered when arriving at the variance?
I misread the title for a moment and thought there was a frame going for $800. Comparing $8 frame to $800 frame. lol I was like WUT! What is it made of? How good is it? Why does this exist? lol But now that I understand I can watch the video without nearly passing out.
Some higher up from Walmart watching GN and taking notes
You guys should get into optical flats, surface matching and all that machinist goodness. The benefits outweigh the costs. Plus, it's really funny watching people gasp when you rub together your cpu and cooling surface and suspend hundreds of dollars on atom tightness, waving it around like a madman. :))
to have one is better than to have none! the design sells itself. the variance is minuscule.
Completely lost it when I saw the picture in the frame :D Also big credits to Steve for reviewing all these with the same standard even though we are friends. The professional approach GN has is a highlight in our industry. Hope we will see these pressure maps again after the CPU is lapped.
Yeah that's really funny!, I also love GN's methodological approach to testing, very professional.
Just curious - how come that Thermalright gives quite alot better contact than yours? Mounting tips to make your frame to make as even pressure as possible? I mean, its about 25eur price diff between yours & thermalright one..
@@ChrizzyReviews Have we watched the same video? As in this current video only with the 12900KS the pressure map is better with the Thermalright frame.
On both other CPUs the Grizzly frame offer noticeably better pressure distribution.
About the costs: Walmart and Thermalright produce their products likely in China. The material itself(!) is about 5$ in US, as explained in a previous GN video.
Grizzly produce their frame in Germany, where the workers wages are like at least 10 times or so higher than in China.
Hence the substantially higher product cost.
Depends on you which kind of trade / production policy you want to support.
Do you know if a Intel 12900k warps to a point of no return when using the Intel LGA 1700 retention bracket or I could I salvage mine with your LGA 1700 retention product? I am hitting temps of 45-65C at idle and while gaming or benchmarking I am hitting 100C thus throttling. I don't want to risk voiding my warranty with Intel if I am at the point of no return and could not benefit from your product or a competitor. I have applied Thermal Grizzly cpu paste twice and I have a Lian Li AIO 360 Galahad cooler and I can't get back to normal temps where I was prior to repasting due to me moving my pc parts to a new case. Is it possilbe to warp an Intel 12900k cpu that badly with Intel's LGA 1700 socket retention bracket??
So thats why its listed under wall decor
Oh the _frame_ at the front with a photo of DerBauer. No wonder you found these small size frames in the home deco section! You're putting them to great use! Maybe a "our team" section when you walk in to your new office with passport photos of everyone hung up in these?
@Corporeal Undead yes he did
@Corporeal Undead no, they meant Bowser...
of course they means Der8auer.. its just pronounced DerBauer, and leet is stupid
@Corporeal Undead I can just hear the adenoids and see you pushing your glasses up your nose as you typed.
Oh yes, I could not stop laughing when I spotted that. Absolute top joke/meme! Because Wall Mart sells its product as wall decoration LOL😄😄😄
and that there was nothing else there that catches your eye lol, oh you liar Steve, we all know you are in love with Der8auer lol...
LOL Der Bauer being framed in his own frame was a nice touch.
He didn't do it!!
@@mattmanyam tell it to the judge
@@RANDOMNATION907 🤣🤣
I'm being dumb right now, what's the joke about?
@@syntextoxyronin1399 For Example at 2:10 at the left Corner you will see Der8auer as Passphoto in his own made Frame. I think his was the first one as well. But its kinda expensive if i am not mistaken since its made in Germany and its just not comparable with other Country’s like China (which all other Frames are made at as far as i know).
Hardware is now days not included by count but by weight. Plastic washers are very difficult to weigh right when packaging, so usually the rule is to pack a weight of at least n+1 units. Customers might receive 5, 6 or even 7, because the aim if for 5 or more since 4 are needed, but due to measurement errors it could happen that only be 4 get packed on some occasions. Having a target weight of 5 thus ensures that 4 will definitely be in each package, because it is highly unlikely that the weight of 3 washers will pass the more than n+1 rule.
Duh
Interesting, thank you for the explanation.
Also, I'd rather have spares just in case.
Yeah, that's why they'll usually include a spare if you order in metric instead of imperial.
exactly
Probably some shop in China saw those frames and thought “humm, we have a CNC machine too, maybe we can make the…”
Listing it under “wall decor” works too, especially if you mount a 12/13th gen onto the wall with these.
Yeah chinese people are competitive like that
Most likely some nitwit that put the item up on the website listed it wrong.
@Dr_b_ only because they steal the design instead of doing the r&d themselves
Wallmart be like: "it's a frame, so it's wall decor"
Well they can be as he showed at 2:05 with the picture of der8auer
When you picked it up to go over to the wall, I was immediately disappointed that you hadn't put a small hanger on the wall to hang it.
WALL decor, not SHELF trinket!
I just find it hilarious that such a product is even necessary. Oh Intel...
As to the extra washers; that's actually a good thing. Once upon a time is was normal to get extra hardware with a product, just in case you dropped something and lost it. Nothing is more frustrating than having to go the the hardware store (or worse, have to wait weeks for special hardware to be shipped) in the middle of putting something together.
I still feel like the cpu cooler fixes any issues with contact pressure
What's more hilarious is 99% of reviewers who gloss it over or pretend it's not an issue when down the road we'll probably see a boat load of dead LGA 1700 socket CPU's from heat stress.
@@PLr1c3r sounds more like a feature than a bug... Intel probably
@@jomonramiel7913 wtf are u on? these tests are obviously with a cpu cooler on them, and they have a 10 degree difference.
@@PLr1c3r what’s _even more_ hilarious is that you think this is actually going to affect the CPU lifetime in any meaningful way…
I had no idea this existed but 6 degrees for 10 bucks seems like a great deal
It saved my 12700k over 10c during 4k video rendering in davinci resolve. Went from high 80s to low 70s. This upgrade is essential.
@@glitter_fart At the end Steve basically says that "(Walmart)is significantly better then the stock ILM just like the thermal grizzly and thermalrite options and there really isn't that much of a difference between any of them, for thermal performance they're all about the same".
Yep. These after market frames have always been much better it's just that they were fairly pointless, and therefor not well known, til several years ago. Don't hold you breath on these full frames being common though cause motherboard manufacturers are designing for mass market which means the simple lever frames will basically always be the standard.
@@glitter_fart A product review isn't "shitting on it". You go over the good, the bad, the comparisons, the relevant information, and the necessary context. That's how this works.
And, frankly, going by how despite being better, it's still lacking in terms of features compared to even the inexpensive Thermalright frame, you may as well spend literally a couple of dollars more and have a significant improvement over the stock or WalMart variants.
@@ShroudedWolf51 This is what the new kids now believe an actual review is... :)
Your pressure maps are amazing. When I was swapping out my stock ILM with the TR contact frame, The thermal paste left an identical pattern to your pressure map, with a considerably thicker layer left behind on the side facing the memory. Crazy to see such a small outlet doing the best testing in the business currently.
i wouldnt say a 2m sub youtuber a small outlet lol
I'm just... Thermal Grizzly and Thermal Rite are specialist brands. But like... how embarrassed should Intel be to get beaten by WALMART at it's own job?
more like "random chinese seller"
_To be fair_ the contact frame is a semi-permanent solution, and something you _can_ fuck up if you get overzealous with the torque. And ymmv regarding the actual benefits of it, on a more reasonable power load with a more reasonable cooling solution the benefits can be pretty marginal.
I'll be honest with you. It takes you minimal skills and ... maybe 50~100copeikistany doolaridoos (depending on how far you wanna go down the rabbit hole) worth of tools to make your own matched CPU/cooler setup.
We used to do this kind of sh!t back in the day all the time, when tolerances were... nonexistent. I remember when you had to screw these things down and you'd hear the board creak because the damned things were uneven and paste would squeeze from one side more than the other.
All things considered, things are much better today. And consider that back then both heat expenditure and performance were much lower. You could cool a whole laptop with a fan that's not even adequate to cool a modern gaming cellphone these days.
So back to the point, if you match your CPU to your cooler, you don't even need the frame.
@@aserta I recently found an old board that still had an AMD Athlon from early 2000s on it. It didn't even have a cpu fan, just a passive cooler haha.
@@SaltyMaud What are you even being fair about. Intel made a very simplistic error that a very slightly different design would fix. These are even simpler CNC machine solutions.
Be less fair. You didn't have to make that comment because no one talked about anything you said.
As Mike is the “cooler” technician, does that make him more popular? And derBauer in his own miniature frame is awesome! Nice touch!
Heavily impressed that chinese walmart brand beats international INTEL in performance and cooling. Just... wow. If I had an Intel CPU, I'd definitely be investing in one of these.
It's not a "walmart brand". It's some 3rd party seller on the site.
@@csorrows Well aware!
yeah the stock ILM needs a redesign. It's design goes back to the 775 socket introduced with Pentium 4 architecture in 2004.
Has this always been a issue with Intel boards or is it just coming up with 12th gen
@@LazyxRey Been a problem since probably 10th gen, because of how hot Intel chips have been getting due to much higher power draw than before.
I think testing with a lapped CPU would be interesting. Thermal Grizzly has a tool that's supposed to aid in the lapping process that you could check out as well!
Get a glass side panel and bam instant flat surface to lap your cpu on
These frames are made for an unlapped cpu with raised edges, I might be wrong but it seems to me like using them on a product that differs in spec would do more harm than good.
@@andrewszerbiak7330 Fun fact: If you're really careful you can "mill" a car cylinder head and do the same with glass and a jig. My brother did it and used a multi layer steel head gasket which requires the flattest surface of all the head gaskets.
@@130rne sounds like it'd be fun to try haha
@@papajavaleri I can't imagine the little set screws that lightly torque onto the board are correcting a raised edge IHS. Flat (lapped) is best. Shouldn't be removing enough material to effect a heat sink mount, or socket bracket interference.
Walmart is 3 steps ahead of us. When you eventually have to upgrade your motherboard after this next intel gen you wont need the frame anymore and you can throw it on the wall with a photo inside.
Walmart isn't anywhere. This was a 3rd party seller.
Thanks for these videos Steve. I brought a thermalright contact frame. Took 3 weeks to arrive. I saw a drop of 5 degrees on a 12600KF that has been overclocked to 4.9 P cores and 3.9 for the E cores.
Could not get the TG frame (out of stock) but I got the TR one and used TG grease to feel better and more loyal to DerBauer 😃 It did help thermals noticeably no more throttling with the same config. Yeah the TR one was super easy to install since it just bottoms out.
To make it easier to get the plastic washers on first time, you should put something through the hole, like a small bolt or the torx tool they provide, and then slide the washer over it onto the contact frame.
Thank you so much for those videos. I just recently decided to upgrade my pc and I just ordered the Thermalright frame while I wait for the rest of my parts.
Might as well install this right from the start.
Basically, these things are not actually that complicated or hard to make, pick your thermals reducing poison based on your budget, time constraints, and values. 😁
Not hard to make but Chinese can't even copy the perfect design that Thermal Grizzly made, come on, is it that hard to just make the same design and everything like Thermal Grizzly perfect product and just sell it for 8 $, they would make a lot of money, but if they are lazy or not smart enough to do it and just make's some crappy frame.
@@joshj3369 lets see you reverse engineer something, chances are just be reference images to sub millimetre tolerances
@@joshj3369 Can you do it? Go get me a file I can run through a CNC machine and I'll go make em for you
@@joshj3369 I'd argue the Chinese ones are better because they don't have that weird floating thing that requires absolutely perfect torque to work.
@@joshj3369 Copying the design is easy, manufacturing it to spec and doing it cheaply is difficult. I think it's the price that stops them because if the copy costs nearly as much as the real one then people will just pick the real one.
I build pre-fabricated power plants (up to 140 MW) for a living. When sending equipment to site, we always through in a few extra of each type of fastener, because someone will always drop/lose a nut, bolt, or washer. So extra washers in your package, gives me a warm and fuzzy.
Wall Decor... That got me in stitches :D There is old joke about a Novoruskij (term for a Russian guy who quickly got rich after fall of USSR, they are known for tasteless, gaudy style they use everywhere to show off). He built his Dacha (villa) and gave a tour of his friend - all 40 rooms, 20 bathrooms, 5 garages, etc. And after they come out he asks - "How do you like it, friend?" - "Well, I liked most of it, but you know... there is one thing that bothers me much... The third bathroom, why these metal tiles on the wall?!" - "Oh friend, let's go back there!" After they reach said bathroom, Novoruskij pulls out one of the tiles from the wall and shows to his friend: "Look! A Pentium 4!"
Waited a few weeks for an order of the Thermal Grizzly frame but it never came into stock. Saw the previous video on the Thermal Right frame and bought one on Amazon for about half the price of the Thermal Grizzly. It worked. 12900k was constantly going into 90s under load prior with massive temperature spikes all over the place with the Intel frame. Not only did the contact frame lower temps under load by approximately the same amount as seen here, but the temps were much more consistent. No thermal throttling any more, though I had undervolted prior to the change of frame and left the same values applied as it was perfectly stable. I'm not an XOC guy, but it's nice to know that I have some headroom if I wanted it now.
Oh, I should add that it's on an open loop with 3*140mm radiators and a 3090. The 3090 would comfortably pull 600w with no temperature issues (back-plate cooler also), the 12900k with Intel's frame couldn't cope with 250w...
@@williampinnock2256 CPUs have significantly more heat density-that's why they typically have an IHS to increase the surface area. GPU dies on the other hand (especially on the 3090) are absolutely massive, which makes them easier to cool using brute force.
That's also the reason why the 5800X is harder to cool than the 5900/5950X-it has less physical die space to dissipate heat.
Honestly, chips are pushed to their limits nowadays anyways, better to undervolt and save some power than OC
@@steph_on_yt yeah, I appreciate that, but 3*140mm radiators for a CPU should be massive overkill in cooling for a desktop product, and the fact that it was overheating was entirely down to the poor design of the Intel CPU frame to my mind, well that and the excess power requested. It would overheat even when not running the GPU beyond idle.
I thought the issue with the 5800X3D was down to trying to cool the die through the stacked cache chips in part though.
@@williampinnock2256 due to fierce competition, pretty much all major manufacturers are now pushing their products far past their efficiency ranges in order to attain maximum performance. Pascal (for Nvidia) and Haswell (for Intel) were arguably the best showcases of power efficiency due to lack of pushes from their competitors. Now, we have gaming GPUs pushing past the 400W range and consumer CPUs exceeding the 250W range at *stock* settings... and it's only gonna get worse.
The ILM sucks, yeah, but it's acceptable enough for Intel to give it a stamp of approval. The main problem, really, is that good ILMs (like the dual lever Intel HEDT sockets) are either too expensive, or (in the case of these contact frames) not idiot proof. People were already complaining about the cost of 12th gen motherboards due to the price increase in the ILM cost; imagine what that would be like with the nicer dual lever version.
That's an impressive improvement for something that simple, I wonder why the high end boards don't come with one of those from factory.
It can't be pre-installed. It's ready to break something if you don't follow the instructions very closely. It would be a liability.
It should not be included at all, this product shouldn't even exist. They should have made better products to start with. This is silly.
I have to give you props for buying your amazing testing equipment, instead of lavish vacations, overpriced houses, supercars, etc. Never sell out!
This doesn’t matter but technically they’re sold on Walmart’s third party marketplace, not “sold by Walmart”. It would be like calling TG’s frame “Amazon’s contact frame” because it was sold on amazon.
Yes, we're aware. But no one knows the name Cheukchi
This is a pretty personal comment...
I've been feeling really down today (bipolar depression.) Nothing has been able to make me smirk, or get my spirits and energy back up.
But this video just made my day! Dunno why, but it was able to hold my attention and get me to smile a lot, and I had belly-laughs from the Roman gag. 😆Thanks for keeping me sane today. 💚
On a less personal note... Great video, guys. Always impressed by your comprehensive testing. I don't use one now, but might be building a Raptor Lake PC next year, so the contact-frame series may be useful to me.
At this point we should be pushing for a redesign for the stock frame for high end chips/mobo
$8 for 8 degrees is a really compelling deal
Are we just not gonna talk about how Cheukchi has a Nauctua fan in their m.2 heatsink?
Is the fan brauwn ?
@@DeadNoob451 yes lol
the spellings in this post are hoorblie
@@jetnyan2348 sorry I didn't know how to spell Noctua off hand and now I can't really edit it so take this comment as my edit.
Amauzing!
I got a thermalrite frame from walmart. No burrs on mine. Happy with the results too.
Considering your new LTT inspired fairnes policy I am wondering if we will see a thermal paste test vs Thermal Grizzly.
We did that a very long time ago already. We've had this policy for Thermal Grizzly for many years now.
@@GamersNexus I remember...an updated one with the newer "improved" products and many of the "dark horses" would be nice. Thank you for responding.
I just want to add that if you want to ensure the screws stay in place, use loctite on the screws. It's what we do with car engines when we torque them properly.
I feel like you should test two last frames:
1. The 枫造 (Feng Zao) fiberglass frame
2. A 3D printed frame - to see if you could just print one at home if you got a printer
Mhm these may need to be tested against creep for at least 2 weeks, or longer, especially 3D print. There's also so many materials to choose from, PETG, HIPS/ASA, PA+CF...
@@SianaGearz PA60 Glass fiber reinforced is really the best material, even for the temps seen in a CPU. If we're talking about plastics, 3d printing aside, plastic extruded with molds is still king for industrial manufacturing when speaking of plastics.
I think a quality ABS would be perfect. Print it slightly hotter than usual for it to be stronger, too.
Yes, that fiberglass frame looks promising and they also sell an plastic version (ABS I think) that would be worth testing at least for a YT channel
I got a Cheukchi frame off amazon and the heat reduction in my H1 was hugely helpful.
It's kind of amazing that Intel is just letting these guys compete to fix their CPU instead of doing it themselves.
Intel isn’t in charge of building out the right kind of Ilm it’s the board partners faut
5 washers makes sense. Pretty standard to get spares with all PC components. A part that costs one penny is likely easier to include vs dealing with returns when someone drops a small part and loses it
Well, obviously it's wall decor. Those screw holes are perfectly placed to be screwed into standard studs in US homes.
Also, that picture of der8auer in his Contact Frame looks like it belongs at his funeral...are you trying to tell us something Steve? 🤨
you are making the best videos about this hands down! now I feel more confident on installing mine... can't wait for it to arrive
Walmarts online store like Amazon has third party vendors that deliver direct - the product info isn’t reviewed or approved (aka wallmart wasn’t the seller)
You have been clickbaited sir
The constant lack of acknowledgement of the photo in the Thermal Grizzly frame is just gold. 👌
Hoping you’ll have a quick look at the AM5 stock mechanism (and potentially 3rd party options in case should some be available) once the platform drops
Der Bauer already did. His own company has rubber washers that give a better seal for people that change coolers and overclock. The metal shim is not necessary and would short out the surface mounted components in the notches. No the stock mechanism is not bad like Intel and the back plate on AMD boards is robust but different between the AM4 and AM5.
Having bought the drink coasters, I can vouch for their quality.
Not exactly worth it for me including shipping and import tax if I was looking for _just a four-pack of coasters_
That's not the point, though.
Most products, like the GN coasters, in my opinion, are to show support to the creator in a non-donation way, as in, one gets something in return for their charity.
I see things like that as you do, plus a hobby related collectable or themed piece, which doesn't always have to be a logical price, but even with that said the GN coasters are bar quality, which is awesome.
This tells you something about the sad state that Intel is in as a company. This is an obvious problem that causes the processor to over-heat and throttle, specially on a CPU that runs hot by default. Intel hasn't done a thing to resolve it, and looks like the 13th gen CPU may come with the same heat spreader and retainer! It looks like they spent 5 minutes and $5 designing the whole socket assembly on the 1700 series.
It's mostly a motherboard manufacturer problem. Intel already has a better ILM design with two levers that's significantly better and manufacturers choose not to use it. Regardless no sane mobo manufacturer would ever use a frame that a customer needs to precisely screw in. Practically no customers know what torque is so the lever type frames are a necessity and pretty much all system integrators want the convenience of levers so they can build out systems faster. Screw on ILMs will always be an after market thing.
@@Glornak Thread ripper screw down and they work fine. They include a small torque wrench with the CPU. You are making it sound like an impossible task but it has already been solved and exists in the consumer space.
@@steampunkskunk3638 Threadripper is hardly a consumer chip and it's far from mass market. It's a low volume enterprise grade CPU meant for servers. Intel Xeon uses screw on frames too but that doesn't change the fact that 99% of AMD and intel's CPUs use lever based ILMs.
@@Glornak where is this 'better ILM design', why is it being kept under the wrap. Motherboard manufacturers go by Intel's design to honor the Intel warranty. How come all MOBO makers use the same lame design? did they all contract the same virus? Intel could have gotten in front of it late last year and save a lot of people lots of hassle.
@@ha8290 Nothing is being "kept under wrap" lol. The two lever design was introduced and briefly used on the LGA 2011 socket before manufacturers chose to abandon it and go back to the cheaper single lever. Unless Intel stops approving the single lever manufacturers will always choose the cheaper option. And why would they ban it? There's only a few very expensive Intel CPUs where throttling is gonna happen without overclocking. If it's just the idea that Temps would be better so they should require it then why isn't AMD getting criticised for their crappy single lever design?
the Roman Der8auer photo has me rolling
Would love to see these pressure tests done with the new AM5 CPU's & boards as well given AMD also uses a 1 lever ILM and could potentially have the same issues.
If derBauer was on it he'd be hard at working getting something like this to market for AMD. AND getting in to Amazon so Americans can buy them. Maybe he's behind the 8 ball.
The AM5 design isn't likely to have this issue, as the ILM is still square and smaller. Intel's choice in a larger ILM seems to be a large part of the issue, which was seen in the early reports of CPU's bending in the motherboards.
im sure they will test if one is also available
I guarantee that is going to be a part of Steve's launch review testing criteria
Thanks for pointing out so clearly that the Thermal Grizzly isn't supposed to rest on the board but floats over it with a small gap. (I should be able to slide a thin piece of cardstock under the edge then?) I don't remember this being specifically mentioned in the original TG review. Glad I saw this before putting my new build together in the next day or so.
Bought a thermalright one when they came out because couldn't get a thermal grizzly frame but got my thermalright from Amazon for like $8
When I first put my computer together, I thought something was wrong with the socket since it closed so hard. I thought for sure it was going to ruin my CPU. I'm glad to see more of these hitting the market. I finally went ahead and ordered the Thermalright one. I'll find out how much of an improvement it is in a month or so when it gets here.
and? How much did you improve?
@@robertcras8151 Only about 8 degrees, but I'm pretty sure it took a lot of stress off the CPU. So, either way, I'm glad I installed it.
@@kevinmahoney9205 my processor throttles for 1 core when i test (no oc only xmp), and my idle temp is between 35-40 degrees.
I'm fairly certain that Intel would have gone bankrupt if they included a proper 20cents CPU Frame in their 999$+ motherboards. /s
I love that you guys put a picture of Roman in the TG frame
Just a question, why does the pressure map different between 12700, 12900, and 12900KS, should not be the same CPU form? or is it cause the IHS is a little bent for some of the items, I mean if you bought another 12700 will it be different? does lapping help with changing the pressure map?
As I see 12700 is better in TG, almost equal in TR but for 12900KS it is a clear win for TR.
How and why?
There is manufacturing variance in nearly every product. Machines are more accurate than us people, but they themselves are not perfect either. In fact, in the early days machines were a lot less reliable than people, it's the main reason Philips screw drivers took off as the machines didn't have to be as accurate to not shred the screw heads. These lower tier CPUs also get the lower quality heat spreaders as they make less heat than their higher end counterparts.
In general, lapping a CPU can make it better, but it can also make it worse. Many coolers are designed with certain generations of CPUs in mind which either are concave or convex slightly so they tend to tune the coolers to be the opposite. If you just lapped one of them your temps may actually go up. If you're going to lap your CPU, you should also lap your cooler unless you are very certain it's completely smooth.
As another reply mentioned, there can be variations in the actual shape and smoothness of the heat spreader on the CPU itself. But what is also worth noting is the reason these contact frames exist in the first place. The stock ILM can cause bending/warping of the chip causing a dip in the center of the heat spreader. So it's possible the 12700 had spent some time in a stock ILM setup, and long enough to actually cause some warping and deformation of the chip leading to that gap in the middle.
You should send all of those frames to Buildzoid for testing memory overclocking. He's definitely one guy who knows what he is doing in that respect. Just a thought. o7
Thanks for testing all the new frames. Got a cheap on off of Amazon that I haven't installed yet.
After seeing this, previous videos, and some people complaining about bad thermals on 12th gen CPU on forums out there. I refuse to buy any chip from intel that is *not* a perfect square. This is a bad design choice from Intel. It seems to me that Intel punish their customers for buying their product.
I love how Steve can acknowledge things like the personal ethics that come into play with manufacturing decisions without sounding preachy. “If that’s something you care about, great. If not you’ve got cheaper options.” It’s a little thing but I appreciate it.
So, $800 CPU and $300 mobo and you still have to void your warranty to get it to function normally. Just like the deliding days.
God dammit Intel.
How and why would this void your warranty? How would they even know
@@evila9076 There isn't a way they could know, unless you send your motherboard back for RMA with that still on. If you call Intel for an RMA on the chip they may ask if you have one of these frames and XMP turned on. Just say no or that you don't know what that is and it should be good.
Unless the frame caused the damage and they can prove it, it won't void anything.
this doesn't void anything stop spreading fud
@@Skylancer727 even if you say yes, there is nothing they can do unless they can prove that it caused the damage. Also, what does XMP have to do with the CPU? That's a ram profile. Only the controller is on the CPU. A profile won't hurt anything on the CPU. Also, XMP is an Intel technology.
The picture of Roman there really warms my heart.
It really seems like the Thermalright solution is the best option, it outperforms the much more expensive Thermal Grizzly option at around 1/3 the price, but doesn't cut corners to the extent that the sketchier basic Walmart/generic versions do.
Couldn't find a thermal grizzly plate but I got a thermalright no problem. It was more like 16€ though. Totally worth it. My noctua cooler was having a hard time with my 12700k during certain games and certain tasks. After installing the thermalright contact plate it shaved off 10 to 15c during 4k video processing. It went from high 80s to low 70s. Crazy.
Yes wall decor because Intel needed insulation to keep alder lake cool
I hope im not the only one that says "Thanks Steve" out loud at the end of GN Videos :)
Love you guys been watching forever. Build my PC based on your benchmarks. Now I'm learning IT. Wanted to say thanks for helping to show the path. Linus is like the Pinky to Your Brain(Pinky & The Brain Cartoon) Mad respect for your nonbias reviews
Thermalright also makes AM5 contact frames, are you going to review those?
Using a Thermalright one, after the 12700k temperature started to increase. Very decent piece of kit, more forgiving regarding torque and here helped dropping maximum temperature by 8C.
I like the commitment to 'real-life reviews' and product placement exemplified by the conspicuous greasy fingerprints on the BE QUIET! sponsored case.
I’m surprised GN has done this many videos on this type of plate. Maybe it’s just me but it seems pretty niche. Love listening/ watching GN content though. Hope everyone is well!
Don’t think 12th gen is a niche market. Should have been part of the standard tbh. Old bracket ain’t up to snuff on it. Intel is just cheap and lazy.
I love how you take a boring topic like CPU hardware and make it funny and interesting.
'Boring', really? K, maybe I need to get out of the house more.
I loved the threadripper torque tool, I hope I have it still lying somewhere around.
The thermal grizzly now comes with its own set screws that are longer than stander intel screws for the ILM and they’re blacked and so they no longer have the witness marks on the frame but I still used the Intel screws installed by clocking the screws back 180 degree from fully torqued and it booted no problem
Also can confirm it allows for extreme memory overclocking.
Using the Thermalright CPU contact frame on i7 12700 droped my temps for 7-9 degrees Celsius, depending on my rendering tasks.
So in average I gained around 8 degree cooler CPU, and I would recommend this ILM "upgrade" :)
My friend went with even cheaper FinalCool contact frame, and got the same results in his temps.
My wife want that as a backsplash for the kitchen counters! Thanks for the design ideas!
Initially, I thought it was "Thermal Grizzly has a solution to help Intel 12th Gen for extreme over clockers."
Now it's "Walmart fixes Intel's technical problems."
I really wonder how long before motherboard manufacturers put those in the box.
Holy sh*t it's the fabled cpu installation tool I've been looking for all these years...must go and watch that supercut again.
Really weird to see the Thermal Grizzly be the worst of these solutions. Every pressure test showed it either with most coverage around the center, or at least tied. Is it interfering with the cooler or something?
Thermal grizzly is overpriced with all of their products.
i would bet that the reason why is perfoming so poorly is because it is "free floating" and doesnt have the stopper or washers that the other solutions have, making it more difficult to get it right
Can't win em all! Just because an engineer is famous DOES NOT mean they are objectively the best, it just means they are good for PR.
Actually, all 3 frames perform the same. Steve compares the averages but the products are within the error range of each other, which means there are no significant differences (unless they ran a T-test but then they could have graphed the significance of the values).
I would think it's just manufacturing tolerance combined with a very sensitive testing process. I suspect that the differences will appear to be exaggerated than they really are.
Also they used the same CPU and motherboard every time and individually or the combination could have resulted in the consistent lack of pressure across the bottom seen in the testing with some being worse than others.
I like the Asus 3D Vision Ready monitor you have for your monitoring bench
the motherboards should come with these
Wow I had no idea, that stock frames were that bad. Almos 10°C drop is huge. I already ordered one - the cheap one.
Thanks GN.
The thought of some poor (possibly overworked and underpaid) assembly worker diving into a bag of washers to pick up a pinch of them and going "that about ought to be enough" and throwing it in the product bag is somewhat hilarious and depressing at the same time.
It's sometimes common practice to add the right amount plus a few extra. I made this policy in a company I worked for. What would happen before that is that sometimes people at home would lose a washer or a screw. So we would give everybody 4 of each, plus two extra. And yes, workers would count the 8 required items (4 screws, 4 washers) and than use the 'whatever' approach to add the extra stuff.
@@quintoblanco8746 I get the extra bits, the issue is the inconsistency which imho can be explained by a process which is clearly not automated and has some poor soul tasked with supplying the washers.
The thermal grizzly now comes with its own set screws that are longer than stander intel screws for the ILM and they’re blacked and so they no longer have the witness marks on the frame but I still used the Intel screws installed by clocking the screws back 180 degree from fully torqued and it booted no problem
KS not $800 at Micro Center at least, down to $600!
wow! Bought ours for $800 when it was new. Crazy price drop!
Then again, everything is dropping in price like 3080 12GB from EVGA id now 800, down from 1300.
@@beoeve At this moment, Amazon has the 10gb 3080 MSI Ventus going for MSRP..... haha
@@m8x425 yikes...You realized what I said was 500 bucks off, right?
@@beoeve All I realize is that Jensen is crying right now next to his mining rig
So after your review I'm building a new PC with an intel 12700 and have ordered a thermalright frame thank you
I really hope AM5 doesn't have this problem.
This is why i take you for granted when its time for Pc buildiing and buying. Little thing like twating 4th party aftermarket product. I bought the thermalright am5 secure frame and thx to Steve, I had no hesitation.
Congratulations on a great video! 🤥 I know where you can get more than 78 free spins.Best choice.
Os adversários perdia o jogo mas não deixava de respeitar o Ronaldinho gaúcho, sempre tinha um pra trocar camisa com ele.
You can machine a frame with as much as precision as you can but when you're using plastic washers or any non precision machined spacer you will always have random contact because of the tolerances on the plastic spacers.
LOL THE THERMAL GRIZZLY FRAME WITH DERBAUER ON IT.
Washers are easy to lose, I would welcome having a few extras. Same goes for when a product needs a lot of screws (e.g. a case).
The Thermalright one feels like the best cost to quality ratio
11:06 Mike is such a cool technician, in fact I think he deserves the title of "cooler" technician.
As an AMD fanboy, I always knew Intel's were only good for hanging off the wall as wall decor, and it's good to see that Walmart agrees with me. 😁👍
@@Xenoray1 🤣🤣 I've heard that same line since 10th gen. *"wAiT UnTiL nExT gEn"* STFU 🤡. 3 whole generations of Intel (10th, 11th, 12th Gen) beaten by the 1 generation of Ryzen in Ryzen 5000. 😎👍 Ryzen 7000 is gonna make every Intel owner cry harder in a few weeks. 😈
@@Xenoray1 Don't edit your reply now boy, you got caught in 4K. 😎
@@MafiaboysWorld? cringe
@@Xenoray1 Aww, diddums deleted it now. Take your L Intel shill. 🤦
There was a time when I could say that I had never thought of der8auer's backside, but that time has come to pass. Thanks Steve.
Typical Walmart, they put coffee table in "PC section" and they put CPU Contact Frame on Wall Decor (Home Decor) section 😁
The frame with a photo of Roman is hilarious!
The fact that more and more of these contact frames have to be made is just so disappointing from Intel. They really have to fix it for Meteor Lake.
I hope there will be an option for a X299 2066 type contact frame for it.
My little Journey so far,
RMA'd a 13900k
RMA'd my 360mm Corsair h150i capellix
Reinstalled my CPU and AIO Cooler
Temps for the 13900k are still trending in the 70 to 75C Range while idle,
gonna have to try this contact frame to see if it helps
I don't mind the extra washers, and honestly any self respecting enterprise should pack one extra of the little bits. If i meme a "broken stud", "lost washer" joke across my IT friends, they're all going to nod knowingly.
The extra washers seems standard to me, they weigh and cost almost nothing compared to the main item, the people packaging these count out four, and if they ever grab 2 at a time, doesn't matter, that is only one, and keep counting to four.
Glad to see you guys charge reasonable prices compared to some others... cough, backpack...
I was going to build a new system but after this debacle I am skipping 12th Gen altogether. I refuse to buy expensive gear and have to add my own silly piece of metal because frigging Intel couldn't design their motherboards properly.
I'm building a new rig and decided to go with AMD purely because of this issue. It seems like the fix is fairly simple, but given Intel's response ("it's no big deal! and taking off our faulty ILM voids your warranty!") and the fact that this an issue at all is just ridiculous. I don't want to reward that behavior. Intel can go ****** themselves.
i was looking for a benchmark between the different plates available. this is a good video! you should label it different so people like me find it bettter.