In Derbauer's video he said the screws needed to be a certain torque. He marked the screws and used the lines on the bracket to turn each screw a half rotation if I remember correctly. Probably an important detail.
Yeah, but that is pretty much the idiot-proof Variant. Jay knew to be careful with the bracket tilting and loosened/retightened the screws, so he should be fine.
Yeah maybe this is a good time to read the instructions...I am yelling at my screen and I hope you can hear me. I told my wife you can, when she asked who I was yelling at. "Read the instructions Jay! mark the screws...omg JAY!"
@@Makaveli6103 Yeah I used the tutorial from gamernexus to install mine. But I got the Thermalright one. I wasn't paying more then double the price for the same exact product lol but yeah his tutorial made it easy. Got good results as well.
@@PabzRoz glad to hear it helped you! Would u mind explaining please your method?I think I'll install the Thermalright bracket tomorrow, did you mark the screws or go by feel of the hand? Thanks
22:48 "I just go for it," not reading instructions - Jay. This is one of those times that you need to read the instructions! ... Anyone who is planning on getting this: you much torque you use is really important. Hint: how want to use the provided. Don't use your ifixit or whatever. Cheers.
When I first saw the size of the 12900k I fully expected z690 boards to have the dual levers like the x99/x299 etc. Why on earth did Intel not catch this during QA and when approving AIB partner motherboard designs??
Because for Intel it just has to be "good enough". As long as the temps are within spec during normal operations of the CPU why would go through extra effort and cost to redesign the lever?
That is why I respect you big time Jay, rather than redo a fully detailed video on what GN already did, you just tell us and move onto how it benefits your build, etc. Most of us tech savvy viewers follow the people you reference already. Also, this is why Ber8auer probably sent a version of this to GN early on, so he would neutrally review and prove it is good. What better promotion of your product than send it to a detail oriented Tech YTer that regularly tears crappy products apart, literally. In his review and then afterwards, literally.
Every detail of the build came out perfect. It looks beautiful and the infinity mirror fans look amazing. Well worth the time and effort! I too have 40+ years experience with PC builds. From DOS days to present Win11. I'm 67 and retired now, the days of "and the customer needs it done as soon as possible" are over! lol
@@baloneyslice247 Not difficult if you take your time and pay attention to what you're doing. Once you feel slight resistance, turn the fasteners about 1/4-turn at a time in a "X" pattern. No guerilla torque necessary.
@@reubenmorris487yeah i installed the thermaltake on my 12600k/3060ti build, easy enough but gotta be careful not to overtighten, the thermalgrizzly one seems a little more specific
I already bought this contact frame from Thermalright a while ago and it definitely improved the temps on my 12700k. Better off getting the Thermalright one if you're on a budget. It's less then half the price and actually in stock. Does the exact same thing and gives identical results.
Yeah I literally just got my theralright one in the mail today because I couldn't find the thermal grizzly one. A few people said the Thermalright one was just as good, so I'm going to try installing it later tonight to see how much it improves because my 12700k runs pretty hot and being able to knock a few degrees off of it would be amazing.
I was thinking about the Thermalright one but wasn't sure if going for the cheap option was a good idea, though it looks like it's bloody good and does the job. Cheers for the info, appreciated
@@shakltn Definitely does the job and didn't feel cheep either. Thermalright has always been good at offering quality at an affordable price. After using their Peerless Assassin 120 cooler in a previous build that I bought for only $40 on amazon and got similar temps to an NH-D15 I became an instant fan of the company lol. Using their 12th gen contact frame I got an average temperature drop of 5 degrees. Super happy with that result. But it completely depends on how good your contact was before the mod. You could come out with a huge difference or none at all. I just personally like buying new shiny things lol.
DerBauer spreads his thermal paste properly as well. You are in good company. I suspect his opinion on the right way to do it carries more weight than some random TH-cam commenter.
@Anonymous One It does, more people would trust a person who has his name on one of the most popular enthusiast pc cases the last few years and has vast amounts of knowledge on PC down to the board layouts who is a qualified mechatronics engineer compared to a random comment in a youtube comment section
There is also a bracket from Thermalright, it does the same but only cost a quarter of the Thermal Grizzly one. I have one myself on my 12700k and I'm totally happy with it, in terms of build quality and usability.
Im building my first pc and just heard about this issue so im now waiting for my thermalright cpu bracket to arrive. I have a 12700k as well. How much do you tighten the screws?
Hey Jay they make sheet metal rivet nuts of all different sizes, thread size and types, and material. This makes life so much easier removing the mini monitor from the top without all the dismantling and might come in handy for future case mods. Plus they 're a life savior for replacing ruined punched sheet metal thread. 👈😉👍 Got mine from online river store for my BIY mod cases.
I had the same reaction as Phil did seeing those fans light up for the first time. I like to think of myself as more function over form but wow those look incredible and it was definitely worth the effort to switch out.
I used the thermalright version with my 12900k as the grizly version wasn't available. I just used the tool it came with and just lightly snugged them up in an x pattern. My pc posts fine and works great. I was definitely nervous upon first boot. Thanks for sharing Jay!!
Phil - For the screws on the 3D printed holder for the monitor, make a hole in the top of the plastic that is the exact shape of the nut! This will allow you to only have to unscrew the screw, not the nut and then the screw, then you could flip the screw/nut spots so you can unscrew the mount from the top :)
If you make a 3d printed part you can always watch the print and insert the nut at the right time while the FLM printer is printing and get that way the nut embedded in the plastic. You will never loose the nut.
4:13 The best ACTUAL ad for a product. Nothing beats an honest "I really like this thing" when using it for something not related to the normal paid endorsement.
This is the reason why I will never even _consider_ using a custom waterloop: There are so many things that become infinitely more laborious to do compared to a non-custom cooling setup. A custom waterloop is the perfect example of "awesome but impractical".
"impractical" is stretching it. Unnecessary? For most people, sure. More maintenance? definitely. It really depends on what your looking to get out of it, and what you are willing to do. But impractical implies its meaningless to do, which isnt true.
Yup! Looks, performance & inconvenience are the three key words for custom water loops. If you could do without any one of those three, then don’t even bother
Just installed 13700k on MSI Z690 edge wifi DDR4 as an upgrade to my system. I was having large thermal variance across the cores +11 degrees from p core 5 to p core 8 with max temps under load 101. MSI Lite Load line auto to Mode 9 and Intel Extreme tune auto overclock for base. Changed Load line to mode 2 dropped CPU temp to 87 under sustained load but was still experiencing the temp variance across the core. I installed the Thermal Grizzly contact plate today and temps dropped to 84 max under load and sustained temps at 77. The most beneficial improvement for me was all of the core temps evened out across the die (5 degrees variance average). Jay, Thank you! We need a deep dive from you on Intel Extreme tuning for 12th and 13th gen.
Just built a 13th gen i9, 4080, z790 system and I'm having issues with it overheating in bios. The cpu reads 88/89c on start up and shuts down in a couple minutes. I've repasted the cpu 5 times, did the washer mod, replaced the aio and cpu and still have this issue. Is this simply a contact issue between the cpu and aio cold plate or could my mobo be bad? I'm not against using this contact frame but at this point, I feel like I'm just throwing parts at it. Beyond the new aio, cpu. and repasting, I've confirmed the aio pump is working via bios reading rpms and I can hear water in the radiator. This frame kit seems more of a performance enhancer vs a fix to an issue like mine. UPDATE: Fixed issue with installing Thermal Grizzly contact frame
Seems like you've forgotten to remove the plastic cover on the cooler...But yeah, definitely seems to be very bad (or absolutely no) contact between the CPU and the cooler.
@@JasonSmith-ki6xl somehow this doesn't sound believable at all. What cooler are you running? What case? What kind of airflow do you get? On average these pieces drop around 5 C, which means based on your numbers you're still above 80 C and that's not normal even for 13th gen.
@@chrishaugh1655 you don’t have to believe it, I was just reporting back incase someone else ends up having the same issue as me. Lian li lancool 3 case, lian li Galahad aio. I could tell the thermal paste was being completely pushed to the edges and no contact was being made between the cold plate and cpu.
The Thermalright frame simplified this it just screws to the board and the screws bottom out so you just stop tightening when the screw stops. No fiddling needed. Testing with pressure sensitive film show this simpler solution is essentially just as good as the more complex one. Slightly less pressure in the center of the chip but slightly better overall coverage, so it's a wash as far as performance. Both are vastly better than Intel stock. The Thermalright frame is much less expensive however.
This might have been commented already but the Perspex part 8:23 is a lapping aid but more importantly it’s used to lap the cpu while under mounting pressure from the contact frame. They found there can be slight benefits to lapping this way vs not under mounted pressure.
Every time I watch Jay dealing with water cooling set ups just reinforces my mentality of never building one. Maintenance on a water cooled system must be such a huge pain!
That is some show-of-in-a-booth level of detail and design in that build! Looks so good, specially the new fans :O Guess it really is time to save up for a new build
Is that custom CPU bracket necessary for the average user who has no interest in liquid cooling, overclocking and/or pushing temps as low as possible? I'll be getting a 12700K for my first build with an Arctic Freezer 34 Duo and a Strix RTX 3080 OC V2 (also no interest in manually OCing that) in a Phanteks Eclipse P600S.
With all the room and such you have to play with it wouldnt be hard to yank a nice looking setup from another case and fab it in. Paint it up the same color and make it look like it was made that way. IF you planned on having it open (no side panel) like he mentioned you could even have it turned 90 degrees and open from the side... would be pretty kewl.
Car polish/compound worked in with a microfiber towel is a great way to get the scratches off of those fans. I used it to get rid of the scratches on the face of my radio and it worked like a charm.
That glass cutter of yours could also do well with giving you some bits to replace the fan covers with. It would be a good way to use otherwise-scrap glass and also provide content on how to apply an adhesive made for prioritizing opacity well.
it works but Grizzlys are way too expensive, should get the Thermalright instead (It's what I ultimately decided, they have identical results the only difference between the two is the massive price difference)
Do you need the bracket for something like a 12600K? Or is it needed on all 12 gen desktop CPUs? I feel you should tighten them cross diagonally though.
Nice Jay. It blows my mind that Intel with all of its resources can't get the stock contact pressure even on my 12900k and once again Roman saves the day! Nice vid Jay
Regarding the "prespreading paste creates airbubles" one, we've been shown a video about that back in professional school. The experiment was ketchup between two plates of plexiglass shields. So what's the difference? Why shouldn't it behave the same way?
Love the videos on how you fight the good fight to get the investment you deserve. Wish Intel would stop nickle and dime and go for what actually is going to work. I would never touch or work with a warped cpu.
Ideal for overclocking enthusiasts and engineers. I have stable temps, no issues owning a 12900k and 13900k with stock frame. I bought Thermalright contact frame, never installed it. Heard to many Trial and Error accounts regarding mounting pressure
Unfortunately, The screws were too short. I was able to catch the top but not the bottom. After googling it, this is an issue many people reported on reddit. I had to purchase 6/32 - 3/8 inch screws for it to work. The Philips head mark was my reference point to achieve the 0.03-0.06 nm.
Jay, I've come across your channel just a few months back when I was looking to build a new PC for the first time. I came in with a ton of doubts and some fear, but your videos encouraged me to give it a shot. I'm glad to say that I got everything up and running without problems! I'm the definite function over form type of guy, so I went with a full black, no-RGB setup. But your build is just gorgeous, it's actually tempting me to try an RGB and custom water loop in the future.
The Contact Frame at 0.03-06N-m is about 1/10th of the force applied to the IHS by the CPU Block clamp at 0.6N-m. Wouldn't that cause the IHS to drop deeper onto the socket and disengage from the Contact Frame? ie: the CPU will press the CPU deeper into the socket and away from the Contact frame. If this is the case, the task of creating a reliable electrical connection between CPU and Socket is effectively transferred to the Coldpate clamping mechanism, and the contact frame is essentially just floating the CPU/IHS and allowing it to align itself with the CPU waterblock Coldplate during installation.
I used it. I was having weird issues and to eliminate the possibility of an issue I removed the ILM and used this. I have a 13900K. (Update) I had a bad 13900K and Intel refunded me.
@@The-Perchance Nothing would boot, not even Windows installer, Linux installer, nothing. But the system would post and you could use the BIOS, memtest, etc. It was just loaded with glitches and after changing everything out I finally got to the CPU and swapped an i5 in and all of my issues were solved. I contacted Intel and initiated the RMA process, they received the i9 I shipped back to them and tested it and confirmed a bad CPU.
Have you considered putting a little plastic bag around the radiator in / out lets with an elastic band. Using kitch towel works but there is always a little risk of leaving some fibers behind in your loop.
11:20 Thank you for sharing that. It might explain some [refubrished] mobo issues I've experienced in the past, exactly with some memory slots not working.
I only recently watched this video. In my experience, even if all DDR appears to be accessible, an unbalanced/incorrectly installed contact frame can result in a reduction of maximum DDR speed and reliability (i.e. random fails). This is one reason I have a hand torque driver with a range of 0.1-1.2 Nm (Amazon) that I now use for anything in that range that requires uniform torque and especially when a torque sequence is involved. Admittedly, if all threads/surfaces are clean/crisp and of the same pitch, a certain degree of rotation will correspond to a certain torque, but I like having more than one means of knowing the torque (or any measurement for that matter). Besides, having more/better tools in the shed is never disadvantageous (assuming used correctly). Kudos on the rig in the video.
Thanks Jay! I am 100% onboard with the CPU bracket. Unfortunately, they seem impossible to locate here in the USA. I have a Thermal Grizzly unit on its way to me from Germany, with the shipping cost, actually more than the cost of the frame, bringing the total coat delivered at just over $100 (ouch). I've noted numerous similar CPU frames on Amazon for under $25 that appear to be identical designs, but have no idea if they offer the same level of quality / uniformity as the Debauer frame. I imagine we'll see the Thermal Grizzly / Debauer frame available here sooner or later, but I don't want to wait for that eventuality. All the best!
This whole situation demonstrates, in my opinion, that Intel really rushed 12th Gen out the door. This is just inexcusable for an end-user product from a massive company like Intel.
9:12 Jayz made a bad example here, always open the ILM, put the CPU in before undo the screws on the original bracket, one bent pin that you cant bend it back or it breaks, pray to god that your board is not bricked. Edit : 10:38 tighten the screws using the included tool using two of your fingers (gently) until you cant do it anymore, then turn 90°, or you have a special tool that can measure 0.003-0.006NM torque. But it works, thats all it matters.
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19:35, the thinner layer the better. With this amount you are adding a few degrees up. With your logic just put entire syringe of paste - it doesn't hurt ;)
Hi Jay! I am using a 6 almost 7 year old Gigabyte Gaming 3 z170 board. Everything is working fine, should I still update the bios (Still using the one from 2016 or so).
That PC looks so damn good!!! But yeah, as stated before, there is a whole video on how to properly torque it. Buuuut you've been doing this for 30 years so I have no doubts you got the touch! Love your vids! you're my favorite person on all forms of media to watch!
Der8auer kicks ass! That guy is just awesome. I used his improved x570 mount for my 3900xt and it did reduce my temps by 9 degrees celsius under load. I still use Liquidconductonaut. That is a great looking rig!
with this warping being such an obvious issue since the 12th Gen CPU (socket LGA1700), I'm really surprised that motherboard manufacturers didn't incorporate these brackets into them. Or at the very least, offer it as an addon (putting it in the box for those that want it), particularly for the Z series boards. Manufacturing these plates is incredibly cheap, especially when mass produced.
Jay. Assuming there is space for nuts on the underside of the frame (where the PSU is). Put some captive nuts on the underside (could probably just epoxy them on if you don't feel comfortable welding). This means you can undo the screws just from the top side and not have to remove the PSU.
Love watching these video, the steps and care taken to get the product you wanted us a credit. I'm in the ICT industry nearly 25 years and I still get excited seeing what you will cover next.
your paste do what you want. The reason I heard you limit the amount of thermal paste was too much would create an insulation layer between the processor and heat sync. Apple MacBook Pros had a problem with too much thermal paste on the processor a long time ago.
I put one of these in mine and use the push-pull method on my NZXT Kraken z63. Now editing video from 4K to 8K, and using Photoshop with Lightroom at the same time my internal temperature is never higher than 42 degrees Celsius and just playing around on the Internet it's usually a 29 degrees Celsius
I bought the thermalright bend correcting frame for my 12700k because I wasn't able to get one of the contact frames from thermal grizzly. It's helped a lot so far. I used to have a core that was always about 10c hotter than the rest, and now that core is the same temps as the second hottest core, about 4c higher than most. Also got a very slight drop in temps across the board, but the biggest thing is that it fixed a memory issue I was having. I couldn't run 64gb ram without crashing in memory intensive programs and games. I verified my ram was all good, but it just kept crashing with all 64gb in there so I had to run 32gb. After installing the new cpu frame, I don't get those crashes and was able to put the extra 32gb back in there and haven't had any issues at all, where as before I was crashing about 10 minutes into editing session or game.
That is an absolute gorgeous build! Love everything about it. Going to be getting one of these before I assemble my 12th gen system. Thanks for all the great videos keep them coming!
I just saw the video you made on cloning your hard drive, the one with AOMEI backupper and Partition Assisstant. Well just so you know, that app is not free anymore. You can download it, and go through the motions, but when you click the clone button, it hits you with an ad to upgrade to Pro and won't let you get any further. Just thought you should know.
Jay, youre the only person ive come across the entire world that says "bending over time".... "I dont want to deal with this 'substrate' bending and warping over time", "I dont want to deal with temperature issues over time"...are you indicating that over time when 12th and 13th gen cpu's are used with stock intel ILM that over time that these substrates, these boards, these chips, these cpu's will inherently bend or warp over time? thus meaning that incorporating a contact frame after a period of time, after a while, after a year or so will not be as effective as incorporating one during the initial build process? Im genuinely curious, and im never one to nitpick someones hard worked video, but im in that current situation...ive been running the 13th gen i9 for near a year, and you're the ONLY ONE to specifically say afaik that these...sockets will be bent or warped over time...which gives some contact frame users, me, concern when installing one of these in a system that has been used "over time", will already be bent or warped resulting in not so desired improvements in thermals...please do some testing comparing older, longer running systems using a 13th gen....hell even a 12th or 14th gen as they all use the same ilm as opposed to systems being assembled for the first time.
If we have recently installed a 13th gen processor and decide to do the contact frame mod, is it going to mess anything up as opposed to doing this on a new build before cpu install? Or am I safe to remove cooler, clean up paste, and throw a contact frame on? I’ve heard this voids the warranty but is it worth it? I’ve watched many videos and they all seem to say it is and a fairly simply install if taking time. What kind of temps are we seeing with 13700s and a good AIO?
hi Jay, question: so that all the screws on the cpu block are getting the same compression, dont you have some sort of "torque screwdriver" ? (i cant remember the exact name for it, but its a specific screwdriver used whenever hard drives are being repaired, and it "clicks" whenever a certain torque is reached so that screws arent being over-tightened) cuz how I'm thinking about it, if all the screws torque to a certain point, then all the screws are receiving the exact same compression between the board, the block, and the scerws
Please help. I watched your video on the Thermal Grizzly contact frame and decided to use one on my first build, but have run into a problem. I bought a ProArt PA602 case, a ProArt LC 420 AIO cooler, and a ProArt Z790 motherboard with an Intel 14900KF processor housed in a Thermal Grizzly contact frame, and tried to put them together. Assembly went normally until I tried to install the waterblock/pump head onto the CPU. I used the hex-styled standoffs labeled for an LG1700, as per the instructions, and just lightly seated them onto the motherboard, not over-tightening. The Thermal Grizzly contact frame is absolutely not touching or otherwise interfering with the motherboard or CPU fitment. The standoff screws seem not long enough with the included Intel-style backing plate to give any thread to install the thumbscrew caps which fasten down the waterblock/pumphead. There is a gap left beneath the AIO mounting bracket of just about the size I would expect to give enough thread for the thumbscrew caps, if only the waterblock copper face were a bit shorter in height. When settling the waterblock onto the CPU, the tip of each standoff screw just barely comes flush with the outside/top of the waterblock mounting bracket, leaving no thread to fasten them on at all. I've redone this from scratch twice now, carefully rechecking everything I did, and cannot figure out what the problem is. What am I doing wrong?
It seems like it only really gets to be necessary on the i9s. I've had an i5-12600K for a few months now under a corsair 280mm H115i Elite and the CPU temps never go over 65C even while running a maxed out 100% load on Cinebench R23.
I just read that B790 motherboards require something like this only, and I purchased an ASUS Z790-Plus motherboard recently; furthermore, I purchased a thermal grizzly contact frame today. Should I still use my thermal Grizzly contact frame for my new build, or can I omit the contact frame?
I've seen these brackets also on another popular Chinese website. But my question is: Does this also count if you have a noctua cooler? Because they're way of fixation is different compared to other brands. They first want you to attach a back and front plate, and the cooler doesn't really puts tension on the CPU or Intel attachment, the cooler gets attached on the noctua pre fixation so that the cooler can't be over or under fixated, it's by torque adjusted with their system. I can't explain exactly, but who has noctua, certainly knows what I mean!! So, is it also beneficial, or just better calibrated with a noctua cooler??
Your amazon link doesn't appear to work, Jay. Was looking to see the exact tiny monitor, keyboard and mouse you're using so I can get them for POST testing and such.
In Derbauer's video he said the screws needed to be a certain torque. He marked the screws and used the lines on the bracket to turn each screw a half rotation if I remember correctly. Probably an important detail.
Yeah, but that is pretty much the idiot-proof Variant. Jay knew to be careful with the bracket tilting and loosened/retightened the screws, so he should be fine.
Gamer's Nexus also had a great tutorial on how to install it.
Yeah maybe this is a good time to read the instructions...I am yelling at my screen and I hope you can hear me. I told my wife you can, when she asked who I was yelling at. "Read the instructions Jay! mark the screws...omg JAY!"
@@Makaveli6103 Yeah I used the tutorial from gamernexus to install mine. But I got the Thermalright one. I wasn't paying more then double the price for the same exact product lol but yeah his tutorial made it easy. Got good results as well.
@@PabzRoz glad to hear it helped you! Would u mind explaining please your method?I think I'll install the Thermalright bracket tomorrow, did you mark the screws or go by feel of the hand? Thanks
Steve and Roman both putting out videos where they explain precisely how to mount this. Jay: we yolo this over here
Expected anything other?
I learn by doing
that is how I did mine, cross pattern until you feel a small bit of resistance.
Jay giving out technical support: RTFM
Jay building for his own video: What manual?
🤣🤣🤣
I purchased the Thermalright version of the bracket shown on Steve’s video. Worked fantastic! My temps are stable on my AIO now.
22:48 "I just go for it," not reading instructions - Jay. This is one of those times that you need to read the instructions!
...
Anyone who is planning on getting this: you much torque you use is really important.
Hint: how want to use the provided. Don't use your ifixit or whatever. Cheers.
RTFM!
When I first saw the size of the 12900k I fully expected z690 boards to have the dual levers like the x99/x299 etc. Why on earth did Intel not catch this during QA and when approving AIB partner motherboard designs??
Because it was cheaper to not bother.
Because for Intel it just has to be "good enough". As long as the temps are within spec during normal operations of the CPU why would go through extra effort and cost to redesign the lever?
@@tboneforreal huh? They dont need to redesign a lever they already have a zif socket design with 2 levers.
@@elonmusket6178 correct, LGA2011 socket dual lever could have easily been used for this but… Intel!!
Was thinking this myself having previously had an X99 build. Does seem like a case of near enough is good enough.
That is why I respect you big time Jay, rather than redo a fully detailed video on what GN already did, you just tell us and move onto how it benefits your build, etc. Most of us tech savvy viewers follow the people you reference already. Also, this is why Ber8auer probably sent a version of this to GN early on, so he would neutrally review and prove it is good. What better promotion of your product than send it to a detail oriented Tech YTer that regularly tears crappy products apart, literally. In his review and then afterwards, literally.
Every detail of the build came out perfect. It looks beautiful and the infinity mirror fans look amazing. Well worth the time and effort! I too have 40+ years experience with PC builds. From DOS days to present Win11. I'm 67 and retired now, the days of "and the customer needs it done as soon as possible" are over! lol
ive only installed 1 cpu before, is it easy to mess up the cpu or pins while installing a contact frame? gonna do the thermaltake on a NZXT z790
@@baloneyslice247 Not difficult if you take your time and pay attention to what you're doing. Once you feel slight resistance, turn the fasteners about 1/4-turn at a time in a "X" pattern. No guerilla torque necessary.
@@reubenmorris487yeah i installed the thermaltake on my 12600k/3060ti build, easy enough but gotta be careful not to overtighten, the thermalgrizzly one seems a little more specific
I already bought this contact frame from Thermalright a while ago and it definitely improved the temps on my 12700k. Better off getting the Thermalright one if you're on a budget. It's less then half the price and actually in stock. Does the exact same thing and gives identical results.
Yeah I literally just got my theralright one in the mail today because I couldn't find the thermal grizzly one. A few people said the Thermalright one was just as good, so I'm going to try installing it later tonight to see how much it improves because my 12700k runs pretty hot and being able to knock a few degrees off of it would be amazing.
@@MistyKathrine Yeahhh... The 12700k is a hot boy for sure lol.
I was thinking about the Thermalright one but wasn't sure if going for the cheap option was a good idea, though it looks like it's bloody good and does the job. Cheers for the info, appreciated
Great tip. Thanks 👍
@@shakltn Definitely does the job and didn't feel cheep either. Thermalright has always been good at offering quality at an affordable price. After using their Peerless Assassin 120 cooler in a previous build that I bought for only $40 on amazon and got similar temps to an NH-D15 I became an instant fan of the company lol. Using their 12th gen contact frame I got an average temperature drop of 5 degrees. Super happy with that result. But it completely depends on how good your contact was before the mod. You could come out with a huge difference or none at all. I just personally like buying new shiny things lol.
Man, that system turned out drop-dead gorgeous. I absolutely love the look of those new fans with that colorsetup.
You should use a GN mod mat when you work Jay........ Those screws rolling around are asking for trouble 😉
He will probably have his own mat for sale 😅
Damn son, that's a sick burn.
Have DEFINITELY thought that a few times. LoL.
or some small storage containers from dollar store…
No need for mat. Just get a small bowl or saucer to hold the screws
DerBauer spreads his thermal paste properly as well. You are in good company. I suspect his opinion on the right way to do it carries more weight than some random TH-cam commenter.
@Anonymous One It does, more people would trust a person who has his name on one of the most popular enthusiast pc cases the last few years and has vast amounts of knowledge on PC down to the board layouts who is a qualified mechatronics engineer compared to a random comment in a youtube comment section
I'll trust my own 25+ years of experience over some random youtuber
There is also a bracket from Thermalright, it does the same but only cost a quarter of the Thermal Grizzly one.
I have one myself on my 12700k and I'm totally happy with it, in terms of build quality and usability.
Dumb question, isn't it dangerous considering the bracket is made of metal?
@@RusyaidiDzulkifli no, because the original locking mechanism is also metal - I don't think it's an issue.
@@skydakiller368 okay
Im building my first pc and just heard about this issue so im now waiting for my thermalright cpu bracket to arrive. I have a 12700k as well. How much do you tighten the screws?
Hey Jay they make sheet metal rivet nuts of all different sizes, thread size and types, and material. This makes life so much easier removing the mini monitor from the top without all the dismantling and might come in handy for future case mods. Plus they 're a life savior for replacing ruined punched sheet metal thread. 👈😉👍 Got mine from online river store for my BIY mod cases.
I absolutely love how you left the thumbnail up for a while. So you can actually read the thing. THANK YOU!!!
I had the same reaction as Phil did seeing those fans light up for the first time. I like to think of myself as more function over form but wow those look incredible and it was definitely worth the effort to switch out.
I used the thermalright version with my 12900k as the grizly version wasn't available. I just used the tool it came with and just lightly snugged them up in an x pattern. My pc posts fine and works great. I was definitely nervous upon first boot. Thanks for sharing Jay!!
can one us contact Guinness? Jay is definitely going to have the award of "Longest time to build a pc"
How bout a Guiness BEER build, instead? :)
Surely the Post Malone build took longer ???
Love your work as always Jay and Co
Bitwits build had some long term issues if I remember correctly, going to be a close run thing :)
This pc isn't close compared to a few others of his.
Bitwit's Chrometius and Paul's Hardware's HTPC on the wall would like to argue this.
Roman is good people.
He does his videos twice, once in german and once in english.
And he has cats, so it is tech AND CAT CONTENT AT ONCE!
I'm not normally one for RGB, but the fan swap was definitely the right call, it fits the aesthetic of the rest of the build.
RGB is great...pretty colors make brain do happy chemical :3
Phil - For the screws on the 3D printed holder for the monitor, make a hole in the top of the plastic that is the exact shape of the nut! This will allow you to only have to unscrew the screw, not the nut and then the screw, then you could flip the screw/nut spots so you can unscrew the mount from the top :)
I have an OEM-only monitor arm that does this, it makes servicing really easy!
If you make a 3d printed part you can always watch the print and insert the nut at the right time while the FLM printer is printing and get that way the nut embedded in the plastic. You will never loose the nut.
@@seanthiar That's true, but if you already know your printers' tolerances you can make the nut never fall out, I have quite a few designs with this
It would be cool to have a torque meter on the I-Fixit screwdriver to achieve consistent pressure when seating coolers.
They do make torque screwdrivers
4:13 The best ACTUAL ad for a product. Nothing beats an honest "I really like this thing" when using it for something not related to the normal paid endorsement.
This is the reason why I will never even _consider_ using a custom waterloop: There are so many things that become infinitely more laborious to do compared to a non-custom cooling setup.
A custom waterloop is the perfect example of "awesome but impractical".
"impractical" is stretching it. Unnecessary? For most people, sure. More maintenance? definitely. It really depends on what your looking to get out of it, and what you are willing to do. But impractical implies its meaningless to do, which isnt true.
@@lyianx "Impractical" does not mean "meaningless". It means "impractical". It means that it will cause a lot more work than it's worth.
@@DjVortex-w I build my own loops. It’s very beautiful and an enormous performance gain. I fail to see how that is “impractical” 😂
Yup! Looks, performance & inconvenience are the three key words for custom water loops. If you could do without any one of those three, then don’t even bother
It really is.
I love the looks and the performance of it, but I'll never go with hard tubing again. Soft tubes make it very simple though.
Just installed 13700k on MSI Z690 edge wifi DDR4 as an upgrade to my system. I was having large thermal variance across the cores +11 degrees from p core 5 to p core 8 with max temps under load 101. MSI Lite Load line auto to Mode 9 and Intel Extreme tune auto overclock for base. Changed Load line to mode 2 dropped CPU temp to 87 under sustained load but was still experiencing the temp variance across the core. I installed the Thermal Grizzly contact plate today and temps dropped to 84 max under load and sustained temps at 77. The most beneficial improvement for me was all of the core temps evened out across the die (5 degrees variance average). Jay, Thank you! We need a deep dive from you on Intel Extreme tuning for 12th and 13th gen.
Last time I was this early I had to sleep on the couch.
since last night, damn bro that’s an eternity
Got me to cackle😂
J n😊😅
Just built a 13th gen i9, 4080, z790 system and I'm having issues with it overheating in bios. The cpu reads 88/89c on start up and shuts down in a couple minutes. I've repasted the cpu 5 times, did the washer mod, replaced the aio and cpu and still have this issue. Is this simply a contact issue between the cpu and aio cold plate or could my mobo be bad? I'm not against using this contact frame but at this point, I feel like I'm just throwing parts at it. Beyond the new aio, cpu. and repasting, I've confirmed the aio pump is working via bios reading rpms and I can hear water in the radiator. This frame kit seems more of a performance enhancer vs a fix to an issue like mine.
UPDATE: Fixed issue with installing Thermal Grizzly contact frame
Imagine buying a cpu for about 700 € and having problems like these, smh Intel
Seems like you've forgotten to remove the plastic cover on the cooler...But yeah, definitely seems to be very bad (or absolutely no) contact between the CPU and the cooler.
@@renerant Fixed issue with installing Thermal Grizzly contact frame
@@JasonSmith-ki6xl somehow this doesn't sound believable at all. What cooler are you running? What case? What kind of airflow do you get? On average these pieces drop around 5 C, which means based on your numbers you're still above 80 C and that's not normal even for 13th gen.
@@chrishaugh1655 you don’t have to believe it, I was just reporting back incase someone else ends up having the same issue as me. Lian li lancool 3 case, lian li Galahad aio. I could tell the thermal paste was being completely pushed to the edges and no contact was being made between the cold plate and cpu.
Looking forward to the follow up video where you install it properly.
I thought the same
The Thermalright frame simplified this it just screws to the board and the screws bottom out so you just stop tightening when the screw stops. No fiddling needed. Testing with pressure sensitive film show this simpler solution is essentially just as good as the more complex one. Slightly less pressure in the center of the chip but slightly better overall coverage, so it's a wash as far as performance. Both are vastly better than Intel stock. The Thermalright frame is much less expensive however.
Do we really need to get this if we are running 12th Gen? I just order a 12700k today. Was wondering if I really need to get this or not.
It depends. Probably not. My 12700k thermals are great without this.
This might have been commented already but the Perspex part 8:23 is a lapping aid but more importantly it’s used to lap the cpu while under mounting pressure from the contact frame. They found there can be slight benefits to lapping this way vs not under mounted pressure.
Every time I watch Jay dealing with water cooling set ups just reinforces my mentality of never building one.
Maintenance on a water cooled system must be such a huge pain!
AIO is super easy tho.
@@mmorkinism You know exactly what I was referring to.
Running a 5950 on air. Noctua rocks
So pretty much, it is also necessary for 13th Gen as well, seeing as how my mobo was originally 12th gen and uses the same 1700 socket.
That is some show-of-in-a-booth level of detail and design in that build! Looks so good, specially the new fans :O Guess it really is time to save up for a new build
Is that custom CPU bracket necessary for the average user who has no interest in liquid cooling, overclocking and/or pushing temps as low as possible? I'll be getting a 12700K for my first build with an Arctic Freezer 34 Duo and a Strix RTX 3080 OC V2 (also no interest in manually OCing that) in a Phanteks Eclipse P600S.
that case looks sweet to build in and that edge lighting is perfect. If they put 5.25 section somewhere id be all over that
With all the room and such you have to play with it wouldnt be hard to yank a nice looking setup from another case and fab it in. Paint it up the same color and make it look like it was made that way. IF you planned on having it open (no side panel) like he mentioned you could even have it turned 90 degrees and open from the side... would be pretty kewl.
Car polish/compound worked in with a microfiber towel is a great way to get the scratches off of those fans. I used it to get rid of the scratches on the face of my radio and it worked like a charm.
That glass cutter of yours could also do well with giving you some bits to replace the fan covers with. It would be a good way to use otherwise-scrap glass and also provide content on how to apply an adhesive made for prioritizing opacity well.
I used the M4 nylon washer (1mm thick) method instead... 4 to 5C drop so I'm happy, and takes less fiddling lol
Does this work, and is it worth using, with the 13th gen processors?
it works but Grizzlys are way too expensive, should get the Thermalright instead (It's what I ultimately decided, they have identical results the only difference between the two is the massive price difference)
Do you need the bracket for something like a 12600K? Or is it needed on all 12 gen desktop CPUs?
I feel you should tighten them cross diagonally though.
Would like to know this as well. Building with a 12600k next week.
@@Sacowa Me too!
Nice Jay. It blows my mind that Intel with all of its resources can't get the stock contact pressure even on my 12900k and once again Roman saves the day! Nice vid Jay
does AMD provide?
@@Ryzen9800-c2y I'm not too sure myself if they have these or need these for AMD 5 and 7 series CPU's at the moment?
Neither does Intel. Its just modding.@@brothatwasepic
Regarding the "prespreading paste creates airbubles" one, we've been shown a video about that back in professional school. The experiment was ketchup between two plates of plexiglass shields.
So what's the difference? Why shouldn't it behave the same way?
i would like to see some testing of this with linus' copper ihs 12th gen after it has been lapped.
10:37 Do they give any torque information for the tightening? So you can just set your torque screw driver which will prevent any over tightening.
Love the videos on how you fight the good fight to get the investment you deserve. Wish Intel would stop nickle and dime and go for what actually is going to work. I would never touch or work with a warped cpu.
Ideal for overclocking enthusiasts and engineers. I have stable temps, no issues owning a 12900k and 13900k with stock frame. I bought Thermalright contact frame, never installed it. Heard to many Trial and Error accounts regarding mounting pressure
Wowsa! The PC looks incredible. Those fans were for sure a great addition!
yes
No
Those fans have me doubting my white build, maybe a black and silver build would do nice
Unfortunately, The screws were too short. I was able to catch the top but not the bottom. After googling it, this is an issue many people reported on reddit. I had to purchase 6/32 - 3/8 inch screws for it to work. The Philips head mark was my reference point to achieve the 0.03-0.06 nm.
I'm 100% with Phil on this one, those fans look dope!
Here let me translate that into PROPER ENGLISH for you.
“Those fans look really good.”
Jay, I've come across your channel just a few months back when I was looking to build a new PC for the first time. I came in with a ton of doubts and some fear, but your videos encouraged me to give it a shot. I'm glad to say that I got everything up and running without problems! I'm the definite function over form type of guy, so I went with a full black, no-RGB setup. But your build is just gorgeous, it's actually tempting me to try an RGB and custom water loop in the future.
Upgrade the gpu to a 3090ti while it's disassembled
The Contact Frame at 0.03-06N-m is about 1/10th of the force applied to the IHS by the CPU Block clamp at 0.6N-m. Wouldn't that cause the IHS to drop deeper onto the socket and disengage from the Contact Frame? ie: the CPU will press the CPU deeper into the socket and away from the Contact frame.
If this is the case, the task of creating a reliable electrical connection between CPU and Socket is effectively transferred to the Coldpate clamping mechanism, and the contact frame is essentially just floating the CPU/IHS and allowing it to align itself with the CPU waterblock Coldplate during installation.
Would this still be useful for Intel 13th gen?
I used it. I was having weird issues and to eliminate the possibility of an issue I removed the ILM and used this. I have a 13900K. (Update) I had a bad 13900K and Intel refunded me.
They use the same socket so it should be (if you are having issues)
@@unixsuperuser how do you knew it was bad?
@@The-Perchance Nothing would boot, not even Windows installer, Linux installer, nothing. But the system would post and you could use the BIOS, memtest, etc. It was just loaded with glitches and after changing everything out I finally got to the CPU and swapped an i5 in and all of my issues were solved. I contacted Intel and initiated the RMA process, they received the i9 I shipped back to them and tested it and confirmed a bad CPU.
I thought those fans looked dull and bad before being turned on. But WOW, They look beautiful on! Almost a neon effect!
tearing down an entire custom water cooled PC for one little dinky piece of metal?
I'd use that thing as a paper weight and call it a day lol.
How can he get that sweet sweet sponsorship money if he doesn't?
I bet you only buy ready built from K-Mart. :P (joking o.c.)
research what it does.
@@CVLova Jay just explained that.
Have you considered putting a little plastic bag around the radiator in / out lets with an elastic band. Using kitch towel works but there is always a little risk of leaving some fibers behind in your loop.
That PC looks insane
11:20 Thank you for sharing that. It might explain some [refubrished] mobo issues I've experienced in the past, exactly with some memory slots not working.
You should take the glass piece to someone who could do a custom etching on it. Would make for a very nice piece.
I only recently watched this video. In my experience, even if all DDR appears to be accessible, an unbalanced/incorrectly installed contact frame can result in a reduction of maximum DDR speed and reliability (i.e. random fails). This is one reason I have a hand torque driver with a range of 0.1-1.2 Nm (Amazon) that I now use for anything in that range that requires uniform torque and especially when a torque sequence is involved. Admittedly, if all threads/surfaces are clean/crisp and of the same pitch, a certain degree of rotation will correspond to a certain torque, but I like having more than one means of knowing the torque (or any measurement for that matter). Besides, having more/better tools in the shed is never disadvantageous (assuming used correctly). Kudos on the rig in the video.
Please tell us and review how it goes. I really hope this comes out for AM5 if it's LGA based.
Thanks Jay! I am 100% onboard with the CPU bracket. Unfortunately, they seem impossible to locate here in the USA. I have a Thermal Grizzly unit on its way to me from Germany, with the shipping cost, actually more than the cost of the frame, bringing the total coat delivered at just over $100 (ouch). I've noted numerous similar CPU frames on Amazon for under $25 that appear to be identical designs, but have no idea if they offer the same level of quality / uniformity as the Debauer frame. I imagine we'll see the Thermal Grizzly / Debauer frame available here sooner or later, but I don't want to wait for that eventuality. All the best!
This whole situation demonstrates, in my opinion, that Intel really rushed 12th Gen out the door. This is just inexcusable for an end-user product from a massive company like Intel.
9:12 Jayz made a bad example here, always open the ILM, put the CPU in before undo the screws on the original bracket, one bent pin that you cant bend it back or it breaks, pray to god that your board is not bricked.
Edit : 10:38 tighten the screws using the included tool using two of your fingers (gently) until you cant do it anymore, then turn 90°, or you have a special tool that can measure 0.003-0.006NM torque.
But it works, thats all it matters.
bro by the time you get this rig running its going to be time to upgrade again. you gotta pick a stopping point and call it good enough.
Do you recommend this for all 12 gen cpu's or just the 12900k?
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@@beuladegraffenreid4210 How, I'm in need of her assistance?
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@@williamsnoah6105 She is always active on what-app APK
Jay!!!!! What tool is the battery one your using is that a i fix it? Both small and large screwdrivers
Wow! Absolutely stunning build! Glad to see it finally finished. Now for benchmarks 😁
Hey Jay, would you recommend using this on a 13th gen too?
Hey Jay, couldu tell me what are them electric screwdrivers that your using? i couldnt find it on iFixiT
Jay you legend, i had the issue where it didnt want to pickup my ram, added the plate like you said and worked!
Do you have an affiliate link for the electric screwdriver you use?That seems so helpful. Please and thank you.
19:35, the thinner layer the better. With this amount you are adding a few degrees up. With your logic just put entire syringe of paste - it doesn't hurt ;)
Hi Jay! I am using a 6 almost 7 year old Gigabyte Gaming 3 z170 board. Everything is working fine, should I still update the bios (Still using the one from 2016 or so).
I have a similar board from asus. A bios upgrade fixed some network instability I was getting.
Is the Grizzly contact frame compatible with any custom water-cooling loops?
1 question, why didn't you use evga z690 kingpin motherboard?
That PC looks so damn good!!! But yeah, as stated before, there is a whole video on how to properly torque it. Buuuut you've been doing this for 30 years so I have no doubts you got the touch! Love your vids! you're my favorite person on all forms of media to watch!
Der8auer kicks ass!
That guy is just awesome.
I used his improved x570 mount for my 3900xt and it did reduce my temps by 9 degrees celsius under load.
I still use Liquidconductonaut.
That is a great looking rig!
with this warping being such an obvious issue since the 12th Gen CPU (socket LGA1700), I'm really surprised that motherboard manufacturers didn't incorporate these brackets into them. Or at the very least, offer it as an addon (putting it in the box for those that want it), particularly for the Z series boards. Manufacturing these plates is incredibly cheap, especially when mass produced.
Jay. Assuming there is space for nuts on the underside of the frame (where the PSU is). Put some captive nuts on the underside (could probably just epoxy them on if you don't feel comfortable welding). This means you can undo the screws just from the top side and not have to remove the PSU.
Love watching these video, the steps and care taken to get the product you wanted us a credit. I'm in the ICT industry nearly 25 years and I still get excited seeing what you will cover next.
your paste do what you want. The reason I heard you limit the amount of thermal paste was too much would create an insulation layer between the processor and heat sync. Apple MacBook Pros had a problem with too much thermal paste on the processor a long time ago.
I put one of these in mine and use the push-pull method on my NZXT Kraken z63. Now editing video from 4K to 8K, and using Photoshop with Lightroom at the same time my internal temperature is never higher than 42 degrees Celsius and just playing around on the Internet it's usually a 29 degrees Celsius
I bought the thermalright bend correcting frame for my 12700k because I wasn't able to get one of the contact frames from thermal grizzly. It's helped a lot so far. I used to have a core that was always about 10c hotter than the rest, and now that core is the same temps as the second hottest core, about 4c higher than most. Also got a very slight drop in temps across the board, but the biggest thing is that it fixed a memory issue I was having. I couldn't run 64gb ram without crashing in memory intensive programs and games. I verified my ram was all good, but it just kept crashing with all 64gb in there so I had to run 32gb. After installing the new cpu frame, I don't get those crashes and was able to put the extra 32gb back in there and haven't had any issues at all, where as before I was crashing about 10 minutes into editing session or game.
How are you complicating the lian li fans? i have the same problem as you and found the single cable that it needs to work with the argb
That is an absolute gorgeous build! Love everything about it. Going to be getting one of these before I assemble my 12th gen system. Thanks for all the great videos keep them coming!
I just saw the video you made on cloning your hard drive, the one with AOMEI backupper and Partition Assisstant. Well just so you know, that app is not free anymore. You can download it, and go through the motions, but when you click the clone button, it hits you with an ad to upgrade to Pro and won't let you get any further. Just thought you should know.
Jay, youre the only person ive come across the entire world that says "bending over time".... "I dont want to deal with this 'substrate' bending and warping over time", "I dont want to deal with temperature issues over time"...are you indicating that over time when 12th and 13th gen cpu's are used with stock intel ILM that over time that these substrates, these boards, these chips, these cpu's will inherently bend or warp over time? thus meaning that incorporating a contact frame after a period of time, after a while, after a year or so will not be as effective as incorporating one during the initial build process? Im genuinely curious, and im never one to nitpick someones hard worked video, but im in that current situation...ive been running the 13th gen i9 for near a year, and you're the ONLY ONE to specifically say afaik that these...sockets will be bent or warped over time...which gives some contact frame users, me, concern when installing one of these in a system that has been used "over time", will already be bent or warped resulting in not so desired improvements in thermals...please do some testing comparing older, longer running systems using a 13th gen....hell even a 12th or 14th gen as they all use the same ilm as opposed to systems being assembled for the first time.
Bro, this is super gorgeous!! Amazing build man! Well with the wait and thank you for taking us along.
If we have recently installed a 13th gen processor and decide to do the contact frame mod, is it going to mess anything up as opposed to doing this on a new build before cpu install? Or am I safe to remove cooler, clean up paste, and throw a contact frame on? I’ve heard this voids the warranty but is it worth it? I’ve watched many videos and they all seem to say it is and a fairly simply install if taking time. What kind of temps are we seeing with 13700s and a good AIO?
hi Jay, question: so that all the screws on the cpu block are getting the same compression, dont you have some sort of "torque screwdriver" ? (i cant remember the exact name for it, but its a specific screwdriver used whenever hard drives are being repaired, and it "clicks" whenever a certain torque is reached so that screws arent being over-tightened)
cuz how I'm thinking about it, if all the screws torque to a certain point, then all the screws are receiving the exact same compression between the board, the block, and the scerws
Please help.
I watched your video on the Thermal Grizzly contact frame and decided to use one on my first build, but have run into a problem.
I bought a ProArt PA602 case, a ProArt LC 420 AIO cooler, and a ProArt Z790 motherboard with an Intel 14900KF processor housed in a Thermal Grizzly contact frame, and tried to put them together. Assembly went normally until I tried to install the waterblock/pump head onto the CPU.
I used the hex-styled standoffs labeled for an LG1700, as per the instructions, and just lightly seated them onto the motherboard, not over-tightening. The Thermal Grizzly contact frame is absolutely not touching or otherwise interfering with the motherboard or CPU fitment. The standoff screws seem not long enough with the included Intel-style backing plate to give any thread to install the thumbscrew caps which fasten down the waterblock/pumphead. There is a gap left beneath the AIO mounting bracket of just about the size I would expect to give enough thread for the thumbscrew caps, if only the waterblock copper face were a bit shorter in height. When settling the waterblock onto the CPU, the tip of each standoff screw just barely comes flush with the outside/top of the waterblock mounting bracket, leaving no thread to fasten them on at all.
I've redone this from scratch twice now, carefully rechecking everything I did, and cannot figure out what the problem is. What am I doing wrong?
Jay I must say that is the cleanest build I have ever seen!!!
8:25 yes you need to relap that CPU, because you need to lap it the way it goes into the contact plate, making it a perfect match.
It seems like it only really gets to be necessary on the i9s. I've had an i5-12600K for a few months now under a corsair 280mm H115i Elite and the CPU temps never go over 65C even while running a maxed out 100% load on Cinebench R23.
I just read that B790 motherboards require something like this only, and I purchased an ASUS Z790-Plus motherboard recently; furthermore, I purchased a thermal grizzly contact frame today. Should I still use my thermal Grizzly contact frame for my new build, or can I omit the contact frame?
Is this available on Amazon yet? If not, where?
I've seen these brackets also on another popular Chinese website.
But my question is: Does this also count if you have a noctua cooler? Because they're way of fixation is different compared to other brands. They first want you to attach a back and front plate, and the cooler doesn't really puts tension on the CPU or Intel attachment, the cooler gets attached on the noctua pre fixation so that the cooler can't be over or under fixated, it's by torque adjusted with their system. I can't explain exactly, but who has noctua, certainly knows what I mean!!
So, is it also beneficial, or just better calibrated with a noctua cooler??
Your amazon link doesn't appear to work, Jay. Was looking to see the exact tiny monitor, keyboard and mouse you're using so I can get them for POST testing and such.