🛠 Crimping vs Soldering - Which Is Best? | TECHNICALLY SPEAKING
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ค. 2024
- #soldervscrimp #wiring #haltech
Does soldering really anneal the wire and weaken it? Can a crimp join really be as strong as a chemical bond? Today we dig into the fundamentals of both methods and find out once and for all which is best.
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Products used in this video:
Dual Crimper Kit: www.haltech.com/product/ht-07...
Harness Sleeve Pack: www.haltech.com/product/ht-03...
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00:00 Introduction
00:31 wire connection methods
01:21 advantages of soldering
02:16 advantages of crimping
02:58 good solder better than a bad crimp
03:16 twist and tape join
03:41 problems with solder connections
04:50 when is a solder join better than crimp?
05:24 don't solder crimp connections!!!
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Does soldering really anneal the wire and weaken it? Can a crimp join really be as strong as a chemical bond? Today we dig into the fundamentals of both methods and find out once and for all which is best.
---------------
Products used in this video:
Dual Crimper Kit: www.haltech.com/product/ht-070300-dual-crimper-set/
Harness Sleeve Pack: www.haltech.com/product/ht-039300-harness-sleeve-pack/
---------------
Liked this video? Here are more like it:
Dave's Wiring Vlog: th-cam.com/video/IpNfRaM_P04/w-d-xo.html
How to Ground Your ECU: th-cam.com/video/iuCIC1HjHVA/w-d-xo.html
How to De-Pin every connector: th-cam.com/video/Vt_rAIKPlWA/w-d-xo.html
It does not "Anneal" the wire that I have been told, but it does create a Stress Point, where the sharp edge of the hard Solder creates a stress fracture at the point it ends and the bare wire begins.
It's more the fact that solder wicks up and stiffens a stranded wire creating a defined flex point where failure occurs.
Quality insulated crimps/crimpers and/or heat shrink etc means you don't get this with a crimped join, so they can be used in looms where movement will occur (like in engine bay etc).
@@pinsandscrews6459 the crimp edge/pinch point creates a stress fracture point too, something very rarely mentioned but more commonly causing an issue than the solder sharp edge stress point, given that solder is softer than the wire it is used on. and the steel crimp is harder.
its almost a daily occurence to find a broken wire out of a crimp where the crimp has effectively cut the soft copper over time and you end up with a blunt end of wire and the copper still in the crimp.
I've got a video on my channel on this exact issue, let me know what you think
Not about anealing it’s about solder flowing in between the wire strands. This creates stress concentrations.
Crimps are “better” all around aside from cost of tooling and maybe you can make an argument for universality/reusability.
Soldering belongs on boards mounted components and nothing else if youre going the extra mile.
I have been rolling joints for the past 20yrs and I never had a problem
In my experience the problems start to show up in the next twenty, arthritis and whatnot lol!
Crimping is for amateurs, and (definitely!) do not solder joints!
😂😂😂😂
@@Iowa599 most mines have banned solder joints, to many issues
Sounds like a problem! 🤣
I solder all my wires with a blow torch on full pelt eh, once the insulation is crispy I know it's cooked correctly. The heat shrinks do a great job of holding the wires in place. It's been 5 days and my joint is still fine.
I noticed the problems many people encounter with soldering are mostly based on lack of training. Soldering, much like welding, needs a lot of experience. Steady hands, how much heat to put in the joint, what solder to use, how to interlace the wires, pre-solder cleaning, examining the flow of solder and so on.
A crimp is far easier to learn. If the size of wire, the connector and the tool is right, you just need to strip the insulation, place all together and press the pliers. You can instantly see the result.
At last if there is water involved, obviously a connection is going to fail someday, and in automotive fields there is plenty of it. So even a bad crimp or solder joint can hold just fine at first, but submerge it in water, give it some time, and you will see all kinds of errors on your dash.
So without protection against humidity and vibration, there is no need to rank the 2 methods.
Fun fact: Wires already come annealed from factory. In production the copper strands are drawn through multiple dies, which lessens the diameter, but increases the hardness due to work hardening. If not annealed after each stage, the drawn copper strands would be really brittle, not something you want in a wire.
Unless you are british
yeah it's funny how he got that backwards
You are partly correct. There are many levels of anneling. Your new cable isn't fully annealed as that would be too soft. Also fully annealed copper wire has higher resiatance. That's why in many LV cables, the copper is semi hard. Higher current carrying capacity and lower voltage drop.
I worked doing wiring on submarines in the mid 1970s. We used full barrel metal lugs and the crimper drove a point into the connector. This was on small wires. I wired the main communications panel on the submarine Groton.
chris chris chris... we told you it was classified information, leave your house, get in the black suv, and we can discuss this further.
Crimping is the preferred method in the marine industry for a reason. This is what I was taught too. circuit boards get soldered, but joints, splices and most connector pins are crimped. Horses for course's
Interesting, I'm a marine electronics tech and have always found that crimping fails to corrosion, but I guess in those cases there has been a bad insulation to begin with, but what is most impressive of all is the bad quality finish of most of the technicians in the industry.
@@krnt13From ABYC "Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit.”11.16.3.7.
I started off my career as an outboard tech. Went to MMI and later factory certified by BRP. I currently am working as a Marine Electronics Technician as well.
Proper weather proofing is obviously as important if not the most important part of the process. Not all connectors are created equally. In general I use the butt, ring, spade, etc connectors that have the heat shrink incorporated into the insulation Ancor makes the ones I've used most often. It's faster than having to install heat shrink separately and when used correctly Is extremely corrosion and weather proof.
I am in the mining industry and soldered joints are avoided at all costs
@@krnt13 Yes, crevice corrosion will kill a joint in a marine environment. This is the reason to flow solder onto the joint after you crimp.
I usually solder because it works on pretty much any wire gauge. I find that crimps are a pain trying to find the right size for the different gauges of wires I may encounter. But in my experience, poor crimps have caused way more issues. Like wires damaged from crimping too hard or using the wrong size crimp and the wires are cut or the crimp is too big and the wire pulls out. I haven't had issues with corrosion when sealed with the glue lined heat shrink. I have been soldering since I was a kid, so maybe I am a special case, but I find soldering way easier and crimping half the time takes more than one go when the wires and crimps are really small.
The video's pretty specifically about which is preferable when both are done right, though, not which is more likely to be done right.
Crimping may require tools specific to the gauge and that can be a bit of a pain but given the right tool and technique, it's a better joint.
Either can be good given the right conditions, but soldering inherently causes stresses because copper is flexible and the solder is stiff, and not only is it stiff, the copper you'd solder is stranded. The solder joint takes the flexibility of the wire and turns it into a composite material far thicker and stiffer than the parent material. Where the relatively soft copper meets this joint, it's forced to bend right there at that point, every time the joint is put under stress. This causes metal fatigue, and is a huge reason for why solder joints often fail.
That's basically why the advice is to stay away from soldering in harnesses, because they see a lot of movement, and why PCBs get solder, and also why he recommended the mechanical backfilling on the soldered connectors. Because soldered joints just don't like movement, but PCBs and the inside of connectors that have been mechanically locked in like solder just fine.
Crimped connectors generally use the insulation already on the wire as strain relief, which only makes them even better, and given you're using the right tooling, you can also measure the height of the resulting crimp to verify the mechanical validity of the connection. The deformation the conductors undergo in the process breaks up the oxides on the surface, and a good crimp is airtight, preventing corrosion inside the crimp to some extent.
Basically, there are a bunch of reasons crimping is better than most people think.
Cold solder joints are a massive culprit
@@LifeInJambles nice explanation
Definitely a great video, soldering joints in an area where there’s movement is going to cause premature failures where crimping wouldn’t, and high current areas are prone to solder joints cracking (dry joints) because of heat and current draw, great explanation from you for anyone to understand 👌
Ideally you'd never have a joint on a high current wire. Sometimes it's best to just run a new cable
@@mabolzichjjl It is impossible to send current over a wire without at least two joints. One on each end. Sure, they're not wire-to-wire joints, but still.
Also, because I saw it on a pretty respected automotive channel: Never ever tin wire-ends when using in a screw terminal, nor screw in a bare wire. Always use crimped ferrules.
Lots of RC hobbyist might disagree :D lots of rattle and g forces on cars and crashing planes.. never had a problem with a solder joint.
@@vihreelinja4743 I used to do a lot of RC. I don't recall ever having an issue with solder joints. Then again RCs aren't driven nearly as often or for as long as vehicles. Valid counterpoint though! 😁
A ratcheting type crimping tool is best rather than the crush pliers type, a strong joint that looks 'factory'
I spent a bunch of time in a very rural area repairing joints that were done with the ratchet type of crimpers. People think that the magic machine does the joint correctly and don't check them. Also in the case I am talking about they didn't follow up with solder to seal the joint.
Yes. NASA has a pdf available that show the many things to look at when crimping wires together. NASA likes crimping for wire connections.
I do in-line twists + solder when I have the spare wire and space to do so. Direct copper-to-copper contact between the spliced wires, the solder is basically only there to prevent wires from pulling apart.
Incorrect
Flux cause much more surface are to contact that's it main purpose and what it was invented for
A lot of good advice in the comments... Aviation uses crimps. The rigidity of solder makes wire susceptible to fatigue and break under repeat bending or vibe. Heavy automotive stuff I like to use both. e.g. crimp on ring terminal on a wire follow it up with a dab of solder where the wire sticks through on the ring side. You don't want solder wicking up into the wire on the other side of the terminal or you'll create a rigid point where it can break. Wire stripping is also super important. Any knicks on any of the strands and you should start over. One small knick creates a weak point for the entire connection to break. The best crimpers are the ratcheting kind with different jaws you swap in. Paladin, Greenlee, Daniels Mfg to name a few brands common in industry.
I only add solder to a crimp when I'm doing big battery lugs, (2ga or bigger) but I'm glad to hear that it's a bad idea for long term use. I'd say that keeping oxygen out is the most important thing for any connection like this, so if you can create an air tight seal with glued shrink tape that will help a lot. At the end of the day, oxygen and vibration are the main enemies to wiring for a vehicle that doesn't see salt water
A proper crimp will create a cold weld which will keep any moisture from wicking into the joint. Water tight shrink tube over the joint for good measure and avoid the solder.
Propper crimping will make all wired and lug cold weld into one solid piece. There is a reason crimping is a thing. It's simply better, when done right.
Exclusively soldering large connector, like battery lugs, I probably the worst thing you can do ! Very high probability of a "cold" joint because it is difficult to get all of the metal up to the melting point of the solder. Worse if you are using lead-free solder.
Ignore the others. Those who do stuff for extreme environments like Caterpillar and a lot of people in marine environment crimp then solder. There are several reasons for this.
1) No, the crimp joint doesn't cold weld the whole thing.
2) There is no such thing as waterproof shrink in real life.
3) Without destroying the joint you can't tell if it is "done right"
4) In a marine environment crevice corrosion is a major thing.
5) I spent a lot of time doing field repairs on equipment because the production manager "knew better" and insisted on crimping with the magical calibrated crimpers and not soldering. The units started failing at the 6 month mark.
@@kensmith5694 Well, you are either lying or you are not very experienced. I call you out since you started with punctual "corrections".
I can't post links here, but you can read the NASA standards. No solder to found where you don't absolutely have to utilize it.
Most if not all your electronics connectors in vehicles, is crimped too.
1: Yes, proper crimping makes a cold-weld. If you haven't experienced this, then you are doing something wrong.
2: Solder is not needed when something is a solid cold-weld. It can't penetrate anyway. You use gels inside the sleeves.
3: The same can be said about soldering. But crimping has a much better chance of being correct every time. Here is why,. Crimping is done either through a repeatable mechanical movement, or hydraulic pressure, which you can read and repeat the same pressure. The actions are mechanical repeatable and therefore you can expect somewhat same results every time.
4: Yes, crimping and proper jells is still the best choice.
5: Soldering is creating stress-points when the solder wigs up the wire. Dry cracked solder too. If you tell the truth, then it's clear the crimping wasn't done properly.
Also, Crimping doesn't fail completely if the wire gets very hot. Solder melts, while crimps stays together. It's also much more resistant to constant expansion and contraction under temperature changes.
When I worked for Hyundai a few years back, we had a recall that required us to unwrap a harness and solder over a crimp that was a known fail point.
Soldering over a crimp in place was likely the simplest/fastest/cheapest way to do a repair. Doesn't mean it was the "best" way to do that repair.
@@scod3908 Exactly! I doubt the same recall would have been handled similarly, for example, by Ferrari.
@@tilmykillme Ferrari wouldn't do a recall. They would charge the customer for a new loom.
One thing many forget. Is not all solder is created equel. Acid core sucks when soldering wire connections as the acid eats it up over a small amount of time. Rosin core solder or rosin flux paste is far better IMO. I am pro solder. I am old school and I have had some solder joints fail. We learn over time. The technique I use today is far more stable than a crimp IMO. But you must start with the correct supplies tools and have a hand for it. Using to much heat and allowing the solder to run up the wire under the insulation away from the crimp pin or desired area. That is a fail and the wire will break. So like anything. Technique is king.
Just like people don’t know how to crimp, a ton more can’t solder to save themselves… heat the wire not the solder.
I've been using flour and water to connect wires for 20 years and I've never had problems except once when my 2JZ baked a lovely loaf of bread in my fuse box.
lmao!
You obviously used self raising flour,not the plain flour you should have used....
Perfect clear explanation! solder has its place like for potting sensors and I’m glad you covered that! for most of the automotive industry use of good quality crimps are needed,solder is use specific and often is the cause of more problems than solutions having said that I’ll always solder if the correct tooling isn’t available though! Because my solder joints are better than 90% of crimps used in the automotive industry!!! but 99% of the time it’s crimps I use every day especially at home where I’ve got the gear! some high power gold plated connections are solder only but for these I use 60/40 tin/lead solder I’ve incorporated them in a few jobs even my own car! it’s fuel system can be switched to lithium for higher voltage(rc car batteries)lol and uses tiny connections 1/4 the size of equivalent capability Anderson connections
Your presentation is super concise, clear and smooth.
Crimping is the better way. Soldering is for when the former isn’t an option.
The issues with solder causing local heating, stiffness of the wire or corrosion has caused many an issue. In aerospace it’s non existent and unthinkable as a wire to wire connection.
Doesn’t mean soldering will fail. Just that it has more failure modes.
Any connection where there could be flex solder should be specifically avoided or the flex physically mitigated by potting.
Aerospace also has a lot of procedural influence; a crimp is a much more repeatable connection method.
Failure mode is also a consideration; crimps usually corrode and develop high resistance which can be diagnosed in service, whereas solder joins often fail mechanically potentially resulting in a sudden failure and/or loose wire etc.
If you get stiffness you are using bad wires of low quality
@@epoxy1710 wire stiffness is a function of the material and stranding count and the braiding if you get fancy.
However the fact that when you solder. Solder flows between the strands stiffening the wire has nothing to do with the “quality” of the wire. It’s just a part of the process. You can reduce it by working faster but it’s very difficult to avoid.
In a car crimp. In a pinch I have made a crimp with crappy pliers and then put a tiny dab of solder by feeding it in the opposite end that the wire enters just to ensure the crimp stays put. I make sure the solder does not make it out the back side where movement could break it.
On large gauge wire I use the method I saw from Lincoln and Miller on welding wire. I use copper pipe and strip the cable as long as the terminal I am making. Feed the wire all the way through. Then press or hammer the pipe flat on an anvil. Shape the end with a grinder or belt sander and drill the terminal. Deadly strong and the best connection with the lowest heat. We would run these connections at 750A for hours upon hours when doing large diameter Sub Arc welds. My personal record was 14hours non stop. The connections crimped this way were cool to the touch!
I have more than 50 years of electrical and electronics maintenance and engineering experience. There is a time and place for both solder and crimp. I never lay two wires side-by-side and then solder; the earliest that I was taught that was in high school electronics class circa 1962. I twist the wires for a mechanical bond and then solder; solid wire is a Western Union connection. Crimped lugs with stranded wire are soldered where possible. High amperage Anderson connector lugs have the wire coated in rosin, crimped and then soldered making sure the rosin and solder get sucked into the lug. A slight amount of lead/tin will dissolve the copper in wires and vice versa. In over 50 years of automotive repair I have had a few crimped connections fail that the manufacturer made in a wiring harness and my solution was to wire brush, coat with resin, and solder with 60/40 lead/tin even though the crimp material is steel. In an industrial application there are rules about types of crimps, the mash type for insulated lugs and the piercing type for plain metal lugs. I have a 50+ year old VACO crimper that will crimp insulated lugs just fine even tho' the NEC and codes forbid it. I absolutely will not use the splices that use a very low melting alloy so that the wires can be joined using a heat gun without crimping. Remember the I2R heating at bad splices causing heating and corrosion.
My 2c. I was a bmw master tech. I used to solder everything. I felt like I had it to a fine art, having started on pcb kits as a teenager.
BUT. One thing stood out to me over time that you couldn't dismiss. Several models had an externally mounted air temp sensor under the car that would get ripped off the car all the time. Even after cutting the loom back to good wire and soldering in the pig tail repair connector and sensor. The temp would always read 3-4 out. So I tried the open barrel crimp supplied in the pig tail repair/replacement kit as an experiment. Temp was bang on every time. The results were repeatable, over and over.
So, much as this video explains. I became a crimp man where it should be crimped. Solder where it should be Soldered.
I can explain what happened there. The temperature sensor is almost certainly a thermocouple. The way those work is that a connection of two dissimilar metals generates a very small voltage which changes according to the temperature. What you did by soldering is to introduce a third dissimilar metal (Solder), which, in connection with the copper of the wire, generated its own electric potential and thus skewed the measurement. The barrel crimps however were chosen especially so they do not generate any potential at all - they were probably non-plated copper themselves (but not necessarily, there are platings that also work in this situation). This isn't really an argument against soldering as it is a very special situation, probably one of the few that could generate malfunctions in a car - which doesn't mean that soldering is okay for wiring in automotive applications. I strongly advise to use crimps whenever possible.
100% Agree great video. I also was just fixing some wiring on my car and used crimp joints.
I work as a dealership tech, and the repair manual says I have to use crimps when I do repairs.
I've sworn to this method for the last 14 years and I will continue to do so, as I think it's easier and faster than soldering (I did plenty of soldering in my hobbies building PCs and model train tracks).
My favorite crimps are the ones with shrink tube included for extra fast repairs.
Of course, this method isn't perfect. I've had to redo my work several times, but it's a lot easier to do a repair in a cramped engine bay with crimps than soldering.
Thanks heaps for clearing up a common problem 💯👍
Who knew this was Matt's last video for Haltech. Good luck with your new job at Turbosmart Matt.
A great explanation of the differences. Plus, just look at the terminations on a factory wiring harness - nearly always crimped.
Twist and tape is for emergency repairs only. I've had to zip tie a couple of 2 gauge wires together so I could battery weld. Winch controller switch failed cut twist and tape the wires until I replaced the switch the next day. I mainly crimp my connections, but there are times where soldering is easier. Likea 50 amp Anderson plug and small sized wire, crimping would kind of work but could easily fail whereas solder filling the terminal and dunking the wire in is a better bet. Marine/glue filled heatshrink is the only way to go anywhere on a vehicle.
You can get reducing bushings for Anderson plugs but soldering them is absolutely easier.
Right tool for the job. I've been saying this for a long time. When it comes to crimping, you can't run down to the local AutoZone and get some cheap crimping tools and crimps. When you're making a repair or building a harness, you should have everything planned out from the beginning to end.
Yeah there are some bad connectors out there. You can get a really good set of crimps online for like 25 bucks and a decent tool for about 30.
Matt, slight tangent, but the wiring used in ships and planes (that I've worked with) has very fine strands as an offset to vibration. Some are silver plated as well. Prop shafts on ships have grounding assemblies with replaceable brushes to avoid static discharge. Worst I've ever seen in a car was a household "wire nut" used to splice a harness...
Making a good quality crimp is more difficult than making a good quality solder joint, which should give pause for thought since most engineers seem to find making crimps easier than soldering 🙄. There is a big difference between the quality of crimps made in the field, vs. those made by robots using calibrated crimps machinery, crimps and wire of known dimensional consistency. In the field, for some types of crimp an ever so slightly undersize conductor needs to be inserted into a thin tubular crimp sleeve before being inserted into the crimp connector in order to ensure sufficient void elimination in the crimping process, but that is rarely done.
The good old advise of tugging at a crimp to see if it is solid will only tell if it is mechanically secure; it won't tell you if the electrical contact is prone to failure and how much void elimination between the individual wire strands has been achieved. For a crimp to give a good reliable electrical connection, the copper strands need to be significantly deformed to, in effect, secure a cold fusion between the crimp material and copper conductor material. Poorly made crimp connections leave significant voids in between the individual round conductor stands, which is not enough deformation. Virtually all round copper strands inside the conductor need to be deformed from round into a virtually void-free hexagonal/honeycomb pattern structure. In essence, if you were to make a cross-sectional cut through the crimped section, it should not be possible to still identify the structure of individual conductor strands in the cross-section.
Instead of giving the crimp a good tug, a better inspection of a crimp is under a magnifier; if the cable is manipulated and there is any indication of any individual copper strands moving ever so slightly, it is *not* a good crimp.
Well-executed soldered connections are both mechanically and electrically more secure than crimps, but in vehicles they do *absolutely* need the cable to be securely supported along some stretch directly adjacent to the soldered connector in order to avoid any conductor movement due to vibration. If conductor movement due to vibration is unavoidable, a perfect or even good crimp is a better alternative, relying on the vibration to abrade any oxide film forming between the conductors inside the crimped section (this oxide film *will* form inside all but the most perfect of crimps).
One could add a stiffener to the harness adjacent to any splices. There's no excuse for having a splice in the middle of a harness where it is flexing or moving. Splices should be located where the harness can be made immobile.
Thank you!!!! Bookmarking this so I can just post a link to win this argument whenever it comes up.
Thanks, enjoyed the video, About backfilling soldered joints to pins and placing them into a socket backfilling, 10/10... As for Chalice Blazeup's comment, He's been "rolling joints" for the past 20 years?? Are we rolling the same joints here??, "Never" had a problem, Chalice writes, "Old school is good," (I like old school) 'If it's working, don't fix it!!!" "If it's not broken, don't fix it,!!! Some of us out there, have "Had To" find better ways to connect two or more wires, Thank you, Haltech great update.
Remember though too that OEMs are likely RoHS compliant using lead free solder. Typically most diy folks use leaded solder which I believe holds up better.
I built a complete new harness for my dual-sport bike. All joints and connections are crimped, and I _didn't_ use sealed connector shells. Almost 10 years later, the wiring still works perfectly - although the _lights_ connected to said wiring have died many times over.
Solid brass crimp connectors, TXL wire in many colors, and a ratcheting crimper; all told I spent about $50 and had a ton of leftover materials.
Just about as I'm about to do a bit of wiring on the truck; couldn't be better timed! Thanks!
Over my years as a car mechanic (10 years) I've seen several times more failed crimp connections than solder connections but in every case the source is the same, vibration, water or a wire in tension.
Seen extremely many OEM cables where the whole wire is pulled out from the crimp which is virtually impossible with a soldered joint, but here having heat shrink as an extra strain relief is important and not wicking a whole spool of solder on a small joint as it only need a little bit.
The solder also helps to keep it watertight not allowing water to wick between the strands and into the insulation.
So a strain relief and keeping it watertight is the absolute top priority.
And always use heat shrink with glue, the other ones doesn't protect anything against water/salt or strain and often falls off or just tear open
I’m on the preference of soldering, but would also argue that this has been due to poor availability of good crimps.
Wires twisted, fluxed then soldered definitely get good mechanical bonding and good oxidation prevention too.
Check the nasa join method and it addresses some of the issues with side by side wire soldering.
I like to solder, but I like to hook the wires to create a slight mechanical lock before I melt some wire in.
In my country where we have high humidity crimping has always failed due to corrosion, maybe because finding good crimping materials and heat shrinks is difficult, I have always had to do soldering to have a long term solution.
I agree with everything on the video, but sometimes the best solution is the one that you can reliably do with the tools at hand.
Great vid thanks. Soldering onto crimped connectors: I’m curious if there’s been a thorough study on the strength and health of crimped connectors that have had some solder added, done well with flux and protected with dielectric grease and heat shrink. Is the crimped wire really damaged in this case? The reason why this is an interesting question is that us amateurs often risk doing an insufficient crimp. For example I always do a pull test on my crimps, but how much force to use? I can usually pull apart my crimps with a fair bit of force but the judgement on how much force to use is too unscientific, so my insurance is dielectric grease and heat shrink protection over the top of the additional solder added to my crimp. Probably an overkill! but seems the most solid option to protect against moisture, vibration and oxygen. A lab based study would be so interesting.
The way I had it explained to me a long time ago was you can't turn off the flux in a solder joint so with vibration in a car it'll fail where the wire leaves the solder from corrosion..
Also that solder is rarely if ever used in Aircraft due to this..
Really enjoy the tech vids thanks Matt.
Starter motor terminals are crimped and soldered on RR Gnome engines!
"can't turn off the flux in a solder joint" ... that's true, good point. When I solder sheet metal we rinse the flux, nobody is going to rinse their wiring.
Great video👍 Could we get a video on heat shrink and potting harnesses?
My personal preference for an inline, wire to wire connection has always been soldering, but with resin lined heat shrink tubing to seal and support the joint. Of course, virtually all wires in an automotive harness have crimped terminals at the ends, so an extra one in the middle wouldn't do any harm, done properly.
I was water well driller pump installer for over 20 years and we crimp the connections and use heat shrinks and the connections last underwater or not forever more or less and the connection is strong enough I’ve pulled up a pump all the wire and hundreds of feet of pipe when the pipes broken off the pump. So I can pretty much guarantee my crimp connections are superior to any others.
I've been enjoying this debate for decades now and I am 110% convinced there is no right answer. IMO it is a purely personal issue based mostly on the situation and there are more factors involved.
I find a solder joint to be better resistant to corrosion but a crimp is WAY faster. In either one I have found that if the joint will break it will inevitably be right near where the insulation was stripped outside of the actual splice. This can be mitigated with a crimp that also takes in a bit of the insulation or a well wicking solder that will be pulled up into the strands under the insulation via capillary action. I find solder joints to be better resistant to moisture buildup from condensation but they can also not always be an easy joint to make due to physical location (ie under a dash). I've taken apart multiple crimps and found corrosion inside the connector (most often with butt connections). I've had situations where the crimp induces noise into a circuit and the ONLY way I was able to get rid of it was to solder the joint. A solder joint where the wires are just laid against each other with the solder used as a filler or glue is relying 100% on the solder as a structural material...which it is not. If I solder I twist the ends together first. Form a mechanical bond first. Sometimes I even combine the two options and I will use brass tubing and slide it over the bare ends as if it were heat shrink. I'll slide in a small piece of solder and then crimp the whole thing tight. A quick hit with the soldering iron or a small torch and the solder fills the joint. This way I get all the mechanical advantages of the crimp and the solid electrical connection of the solder.
Really I think there is no "best" here. it depends on what you're working on, what you're looking for, how much time you have and how you were taught. Add in a little stubbornness and we have a situation with people camped out on both extremes with no one being right.
My only issue with the crimping method is finding somewhere to purchase said barrel crimps when I need a couple real quick, not 1,000 next week, other than that I love them. On the other hand though, there's something satisfying about the process of soldering, I can't say it's relaxing while my hands are shaking like I'm detoxing but when it comes out right there's a little sense of accomplishment
PTMotorsport sell a sweet little kit.
Buy the 1000 now whether you need them or not.......
OK, who else has a lot of spares as "ooohh, that will be useful"
@@katywalker8322 I bought an assortment od aviation butt connectors a few years back and they are probably the bestpurchase I have ever made. When someonecalls you to a job that you have to do in the dark and drizzle on a parking lot crimping just takes all of the guees work out of re joining injector wires that were eaten by mice. So much easier than trying to keep 2 wires together while soldering in a cluttered engine bay.
What the heck is happening in this world I was thinking about this subject this morning I didn’t say anything to everyone about it and then this video comes up 🤯👍🍻
You're welcome:)
Right!! Had this convo with me Dad the other day lol.
We know. Your Dad called us and told us to do this video!
I used to swear by solder only, now I prefer crimp. Probably because at that time all I owned was a soldering iron. Depending how flexible the copper strands are, thick strands usually end up meaning you need to twist longer wires together and after soldering you end up with sword that doesn't flex in your harness. If you can keep the twist joint short I don't mind so much using solder. Solder has its place but its not all the time
What do you use for back potting the wires?
Agree 100%
Love your work 👍
The solder that wicks up the wire is the main problem here. It generates a very rigid interface between the clean wire and soldered part, which is almost certain to work harden, fatigue and break when exposed to vibrations. Crimps also have a quite rigid interface, but it is more gradual, and since it does not creep up the wire, it is closer to the joints so the two ends of the wire stabilise each other. Also, soldering flux - which also gets wicked up the wires ahead of the solder - can be corrosive, so cleaning it after soldering is recommended in electronics. I recommend using crimps whenever possible. In fact, I would PREFER twisting the wires together to soldering - but I'm not talking about your simple twist, I would use a lineman splice (a.k.a. Western Union splice) for this. Secured by some heat shrink (preferably glue-lined) it is mechanically quite strong, it is a very good electrical connection and is quite durable.
I am a retired automotive engineer. Prior to my retirement in the early 2000s, most wire-to-wire connections were "twisted bare wire". 1-1/2 to 2 turns over the bared wire and adhesive backed cloth tape. A second layer of protection was applied. Either non-adhesive PVC tape or convolute tubing. This works well on stranded wires 18 AWG through about 12 AWG and has been used for over 50 years. Smaller wires are now common but I suspect they are crimped.
I hated crimping and only soldered until I finally got a good quality crimping tool. I always had issues with the simple plier type crimpers. Bought some ratcheting with different heads and love them.
Hey, what type of epoxy did you fill that connector shell with?
ballsy to tackle this one. definitely gets the experts on the interwebs fired up
where do you get the open barrel crimps from? i cant find it at any of my local shops
I prefer soldier, I do feel it's more reliable of a connection, and significantly less prone to oxidation/corrosion. In my teens I preferred crimping, quick and easy, but I've had to go back a few times to solve random issues on vehicles.
The amount of times I've troubleshooted something down to an old crimp is not insignificant. You don't see a ton of crimps, and if you do it's normally in a wire harness, or simply repairing a bad section of wire.
But they do fail, they corrode, and it's a frustrating issue to deal with as I always find myself defaulting to questioning them crimp. There are better crimps, there are worse crimps, I hate the double ended butt connectors ... When given a chance I prefer to solder, they are less prone to oxidation/corrosion.
However there are downsides to soldering, more time consuming, difficulty working with in tight spots, and frustrating to lay on your back, only to solder something under the dash above you. Situations like that, crimps are acceptable, they see limited exposure to elements inside the cab.
Weak solder joints are almost always user error, and lacking the experience to know when a joint is good/bad that is fair, everyone learns somewhere. My issue with crimps is they always oxide/corrode leading to a faulty, to semi faulty connection. This is why I dislike them, and to me personally this is an advantage to soldering even before die electric grease/shrink tubing come in.
You can use both on a crimp as well, but you risk the same issues as corrosion when you put die electric grease on some type of crimps. However I'm not an expert on either, my young brother is an electrical engineer. He only uses crimps in his line of work, he likes them, but he works in a very controlled environment.
For some things crimping is the only real options (tight spaces) but when given the option I prefer to solder, again though some stuff like speaker wire, or items in a cab don't exactly benefit from solder.
Like everything else, different wire connection procedures has their place. Electricians use wire nuts for building wiring, electronics use solder and crimp and automotive and marine also use both along with compressing a screw or a piece of metal with a screw against the wire. I work in the salt water marine field and a good mechanical connection is just as important as any other field but corrosion is very high in this field. We use heat shrink with a hot glue for general wiring but you must use the correct crimpers to prevent tearing a hole in the insulation or you defeat the purpose of the glued heat shrink. I think the glue also adds strain resistance and breaking from working the wire at the connection. With battery cables we crimp then solder. The solder seals the mechanical connection to prevent salt and moisture intrusion. When salt water gets into a connection the water may dry out but the salt doesn't evaporate. It stays until the connection corrodes away. Using the cheaper open PVC type crimp connectors may be OK for some things but I think they invite weakening and wire breakage from vibration not to mention corrosion. I sometimes use solder and shrink tube with glue, especially if the wire is smaller than 18 AWG. I don't know what mm that is but it is getting small. I find it too easy to damage the smaller wire and promote breakage at the crimp point.
google tells me 18 AWG is equivalent to 1.024mm
5:00 Hang on, what is back-podding, what is the material used, and what are reliable brands for that?
6:03 What are some good quality glue-lined heat shrink brands?
looks like soldering hot glue is going to replace best over both of these in many small applications. just learning though and enjoyed the video. very informative. thanks for sharing.
Another advantage is the repeatably of good crimps (providing the correct tool and crip ect) can take out some of the human error that could occur with solder, however for the average Joe either would be fine for club or street cars.
If there's any vibration, no solder for me. If the connections are potted or fastened down tightly, then solder is a good choice. Better to twist the wires before soldering to get good wire-to-wire contact as solder is more resistive than copper. In high amperage or sensitive sensor circuits, it can make a difference.
I often use dielectric grease in my crimp connections to make sure no corrosion occurs between the two.
Soldering guru here, the way you solder I agree stick to ur crimping tools. I will stick to my rosin core leaded solder, properly twisted together wires that are then rosin fluxed and soldered with leaded solder. It makes a nice shiny connection strong chemical bond and that shit is like black it just don’t crack! 25 years soldering in automotive applications. I’ve never had a solder joint returned.
Question, can you elaborate on "open barrel crimps"? I'd never heard of them before just now and what I called a crimp seems to exclusively be a closed type.
@@ryanokeefe12 Thanks for the info. So I guess the crimps that I see in auto parts stores that have "insulation" around the crimp already are less than ideal. Also I know I could google this, but just having the 3 terms (open-barrel, split-barrel, and closed-barrel) will make my google search much more fruitful now. And it boosts engagement for Haltech. All hail the algorithm.
In Heavy Commercial Vehicles, especially waste transfer, soldering is preferred as water is least likely to enter the join and corrodes. Solder is a problem when the join is in a location that is susceptable to flexing, causing it to crack. Easily prevented by securing the harness correctly.
@4:59 you show back filling a sensor plug what is it your using?
This debate stems from the time when soldering was the only option, outside of twist and tape, for cost reasons. Today we have the machines to make precision tools and open-barrel crimps very cheaply. As with running in engines, soaking motorcycle chains in kerosine and cooking them in oil, and other old timey techniques, technology has come to a point where there are better to do it, or not do it at all.
Crimping is good for one wire maximum two. If you wanted to crimp a three-core cable, you would be increasing the size of the original diameter extremely, which can cause placement problems. In that case, it is better to solder.
Great vid!
I've seen a few testings where soldering is far better then crimping in terms of resistance.. But crimping is a lot easier and quicker.. A good twist is as good or better than a bad crimp ..😂😂😂. I've done the Twist in and emergency.. But never as a permanent.. I would love to see you do a resistance test to actually see which is better before actually claiming one is better over the other .. My personal opinion is both are excellent as long as both are done right .. I prefer to solder due to finding it easier to do a better job without the need for specialist tools ..
Good video. And you didn't even get into the topic of multi-strand vs solid wires. Generally accepted that multi is better for low voltage (i.e. 12v) and that a solder joint has made that part of the wire a solid, and therefore increased the resistance.
As some others have mentioned though, proper waterproofing of the joint is probably more important than anything else, otherwise in time corrosion will eat it away and you'll have no join anyway (especially if you don't wipe off the flux on a solder join). Glued heat shrink is amazing stuff.
None of that is true. Multi-strand is used when the wire needs to flex. Solder making it a solid does not increase resistance if the wire is correctly joined together tightly before soldering.
@@stinkycheese804 Hi Stinky. Good point and this makes absolute sense and is also the reason that structural wiring in a house is solid core, and from plug to appliance is multi-strand and called 'flex'.
One of the main factors affecting resistance is the cross-sectional area of the conductor (which can be reduced by bad crimping) which is not affected at all , or is even increased by a solder joint.
There is however another lesser-understood phenomenon called 'surface-effect' which affects AC circuits. This is where the current flow is concentrated near the surface of the conductor. A solid wire has significantly less surface area than multi-stranded wire.
"How is this relevant to auto-electrics which are all DC?", you may cry.
Well. It's actually a feature of the 'frequency' of the current, and not whether that frequency cycles from positive to negative. A current rapidly pulsing from 12v + to 0 can be considered an 'Alternating' current (yes I know that's voltage not current - but the current will also pulse). While this is not relevant to most of the circuits in a vehicle, the one that a lot of people are concerned about is the quality of their audio...which can definitely be considered a pulsating current. The differences again will be less than those from many other features (using larger cables, oversized connectors, tight joints, etc), but it is still a factor for audiophiles.
Any clarification of this phenomenon by experts is welcome. I never claim to be an expert in anything - there's always someone out there who knows more than me.
I read that solder can cause resistance in wires?? like injector, map, maf, wideband wires... one would think a crimp would do that same thing?
Whats your take on the cheaper butt splice connectors?
I know they have their place..ex. trailer light wiring.. i would never use them in a engine harness.
Hey Matt great video. I feel it would have been worth noting that if your going to use a Glue heat shrink on the solder joint. That it does add some strength to the connection. Or maybe it doesn't, common sense says it does but your the expert. It's true that it adds the same value to both Crimp and Soldered connections. But wasn't covered in this video.
the adhesive does add some element of strain relief, but proper crimps will be stronger than the wire conductors themselves, so really a non-issue. The primary purpose of the adhesive is to keep the exposed conductors from being in contact with atmosphere, humidity, and chemicals that it might encounter.
I've seen wires that broke off right at where they stick out of shrink tube with glue. Probably the result of weakened wire insulation due to heat applied to the tube and tube being stiff causing stress concentration at narrow part of wire.
@@brys555 I’m hoping that’s just from low quality heat shrink. Personally I use some quality heat shrink and haven’t seen that one. But sounds possible for sure with maybe some super low quality heat shrink.
I just learned this (probably why it was showing up in my recommended tab). After thinking about it. Anytime there is a massive gauge wire joint, maybe something like an industrial application or the power lines outside your home, I have never seen 2 large gauge wires soldered together, they are ALWAYS crimped mechanically. There must be a reason for that. My intuition always lead me to believe that a proper solder joint must have a lower resistance, I'm not sure, but that may not be true. I am assuming a properly crimped connection must be nearly identical.
Solder is great for Tefzel shielded wire. The shield only using the solder sleeves with ground wire.
I've been using crocodile clips for 20 years and never had a problem.
As "Pins and Screws" said, soldering creates a stress point in every strand, where the solder wire interface is located. As the joint moves strands work harden and break in the end, this put more stress on the remaining strands and they break faster.
Crimping forms a cold weld between the crimp and the wire strands, this means that the each wire strand is cold welded to each other and the crimp shell. Also with a lot of crimps the wire insulation is taken in to the crimp shell this provides the strands with more protection from movement so reducing work hardening and thus breakage.
In cable forms in aircraft looms you won’t see many wires soldered to connectors, they are crimped to pins and then inserted in to the connector. Fully protected from vibration etc.
How about liquid tape and heat shrink? Is that combination detrimental?
60/40 solder joints are made long before the copper reaches annealing temperatures; the poor vibration resistance is due to solders brittleness.
A properly crimped connection forms a cold weld, permanently bonding the surfaces together. Clean surfaces and correct tooling are required.
My first day on the job as a mechanic at a major airline I was told that soldering wires together would get you fired. I had a soldering iron in my toolbox and was told to take it out to my car or cut the cord off and throw it away.
and this is why I use speeduino. I am pushing 50, have the same truck for 30, been soldering the joints, and have yet to have a problem.
What about corrosion resistance? Even with shrink tube, I see crimped connections with corrosion that sometimes goes up inside the insulation at least an inch. I've never seen corrosion on a properly soldered joint with shrink tube. I suspect that the little bit of solder that wicks up the wire helps protect it from oxidizing.
Where can I buy a reasonably small number of the "open barrel crimp" things? I search for them and find tons of tools, but none of the small copper pieces to use to make a connection.
I've been using both in certified radio, telecoms and aerospace work for the last 50+ years. It's a case of horses for courses: The design engineer makes the decision, you work to the specification. If you do use crimps, buy the correct tools, rather than cheap stuff; if you solder, make sure to clean the joint before heat-shrinking it. In my line of work there are no lap-joints.
Yes but also there is another factor- how often a hobbyist (occasional user) makes a bad solder joint compared to making a bad crimp. My experience is that (for occasional users) bad crimps are more common than bad solder joints. For occasional users, I think the lowest failure connector is an IDC connector (like a WAGO).
Based on what I have seen, "bad" crimps are also more common in mass production. It gets the wire connected much faster than crimping then soldering but very often crevice corrosion sets in after a while and loosens up the joint. Depending on the warranty period, you may be getting hit with the repair cost nearly a year after the gear was fielded.
IDC is worse than either if all were done properly, because it cinches the wire, often cutting a few strands, and usually leaves it exposed so corrosion starts.
@@stinkycheese804 It all depends on the type of IDC connector. IDB ribbon connectors have been around since the 50's and I have seen very little issues with them. They are even certified for military and aviation use and are commonly found in avionics system.
@@kensmith5694 I agree. It seems like most times with I have do diagnose a custom harness issue it ends up being a crimp issue. On my new system designs I have moved away from custom harnesses to commercially available molded cables. Not as sexy but much more reliable.
@@connecticutaggie I have done designs using "flex to install" flexible PCBs. In some cases, that is the best way to connect a group of things together. You get even better speed than using crimps without the error and failure rate of crimped custom cables.
The simply answer to this is that either method makes a reliable joint if done correctly, for "most" applications. Done correctly also includes that solder, nor crimp, is supposed to be a mechanical bond, only the electrical bond. With either if the wire is subject to flexure stress, the job was not completed. Wire routing and fastening down is often overlooked, then the blame placed elsewhere.
When using a loop type terminal on a high current joint I will use a crimp terminal then solder the cable that is protruding from the terminal.
I both solder and crimp, but I only solder under certain circumstances. 1: the joint is in a straight part, not in a bend. 2: I can actually fit glued shrinksleeve around it (no tape) 3: its not moving once installed. As long as those requirements are met, solder is fine for me. Anything else, I do indeed crimp. But still have the shrink sleeve as a requirement.
The real issue here is people base their opinion on anecdotal bias based on technique:
Soldering requires far more skill to do correctly, most people over heat the join and wick too much solder up the wires.
Crimping requires an expensive quality crimping tool with the correct dies, most people use cheap generic crimps and a cheap handyman style tool.
The correct answer is you should be properly soldering AND crimping, just not at the same time!
Twist and tape has its place - as a get you home fix at the side of the road. It is not quite as bad as the friend who turned up on a small motorcycle with a battery wire attached using sticky tape (not even electrical tape)
Crimping probably gets a bad reputation from people using the red or blue pre insulated crimps with a cheap set of crimping pliers.
One concern with open barrel crimps with a large number of wires is that the outer wires potentially have quite a large stress point where the insulation endsand the wires has to do a fairly sharp S bend.
We've always crimped and soldered. The only time that I have had trouble is when using poor quality wire (the aluminized crap).
Citing a commonly failed solder joint on an OEM vehicle is not a bad way of going about building some proof, but I would have liked to see you guys perform an actual test proving one is better than the other.
I'm not that great at soldering on a bench, on a car and under a car? Forget it. I use crimps and heat shrink all the time with no trouble, same with South Main Auto channel. My solder joints would be waaaaayyyy worse than my crimps. If you can't solder a nice clean joint with no sharp points sticking out (that will eventually poke out of any heat shrink) then don't even try it. And I remember once 16 years ago I learned my lesson about twisting wires together with electrical tape, and using wire nuts on cars. It will get you by in a pinch, but the moment you get it somewhere you can work on it you better undo and redo it properly otherwise it will leave you stranded, or a year or 2 goes by and you've forgotten all about it and end up troubleshooting some random ass electrical problem / no-start issue, parts cannoning hundreds of dollars only to find your prior handiwork was the problem.
Mmmmm. A concise video I can send to all the people who swear by soldering. We love to see it.
Soldering two wires side by side is asking for the mentioned failures. Wires should always be mechanically attached first (twisting, wesern union joint, etc) then soldered.
Properly crimped joints shouldn’t allow solder to wick as proper crimping tools and technique deforms the wire to fit the crimp barrel and to fit other wires with multistrand wires.
Tempering hardens metal (making it more brittle), annealing softens it. Copper doesn't temper so that’s not an issue. Work hardening is mechanical deformation (crushing, bending, stretching) causing the equivalent of tempering. All good methods harden. And like anything else metal, it’s a balance of strength vs flexibility.
In the end, most failures are from vibration and heat cycling. Both methods will do great if done properly. Too bad most people are crap at making good joints. Tooling helps a lot in the case of crimping.
[edit: and for reference, copper starts annealing around 700°F and most irons range from 370 to 840]
what about water proof solder crimps, the ones you just heat and it solders and shrink wraps in one?
Where do you get these "quality" crimp connectors?
I use soldier most of the time because my experience has shown that crimps fail a lot sooner ( maybe I’m doing it wrong) but especially on all my trailers I soldier my connections, no problems for years and years
Are you using a $20 crimp tool and generic crimps, or a $200 crimp tool with the correct die set?
You can do a good soldering job with a $20 iron, but generally can't do a good crimp with a $20 tool.
@@scod3908 idk, to be honest there isn’t good resources for honest tool reviews, and or educational videos or books that I’m aware of for either. And sourcing quality connectors is another trying job, with all the Chinese crap and paid reviews
@@scod3908 It's sort of the same for the soldering iron and technique. A good iron will be a temperature controlled station, true iron clad tips (not those cheap nickel plated copper ones) user knowing what temp to set, and how long to apply heat, as well as which solder to use, and the technique of heating the joint and flowing the solder in with sufficient flux, not necessarily just the flux in the spool of flux core solder.
For extreme applications like a pro mod car I use crimp terminals and then put a dot of solder right on the end of the wire. it don't wick past the crimp.
Use to work with a retired airforce electrical engineer fitting out yachts, he always crimped