Why you should NEVER solder wires on your car.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ธ.ค. 2020
- After years of being an automotive technician I have plenty of horror stories of bad automotive wiring fixes. In this video I aim to help anyone that finds themselves in a place where they need to repair a wire on their car.
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irvinortega_
Products used in video(paid links):
Wire Strippers:
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Soldering iron:
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Closed barrel crimpers:
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Closed barrel heat shrink butt splices:
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Open barrel terminal kit:
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Heat shrink kit:
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A good crimp junction is better than a bad solder joint.
I like to solder sometimes, but on somethings, I would rather crimp. I know that experienced technicians know how to make a good solder joint. They know what size solder to use (including core type and percentage) what size iron or gun to use and how hot it needs to be. If you get all those right & tin the wires before connecting them, there will be no need to twist them, and being pre-tinned will mean you don't have to add as much solder when making the joint, which means less time with the iron on the wire. More surface contact between the tip and wire decreases time also. Beyond that, aluminum makes the best heat sink. It conducts heat very well, but doesn't hold the heat very long. But, everything between the iron and the heat sink will get hot, so moving them to the end of the insulation will also deter the solder from creeping up the wire.
HOWEVER, it's very likely that most DIYers are not going to have the soldering skills of an experienced A/P mechanic, or electronic technician. Crimping can be mastered much easier and quicker than soldering, which makes it the best option for most people.
Totally agree! So many frustrations come up when trying to produce a good solder and there's a lot more variables to watch for that I normally recommend crimping for anyone not interested in learning a good amount about electrical work! Thanks for watching 🤘🏼
Never twist wires together. I don't care if it's a crimped or soldered connection. IPC which is the authority for soldering and crimping does not permit that bullshit way of doing things.
Have you ever taken a certification course for soldering (J-STD) or Crimping (IPC620)?
How about no? If you don’t know how to solder, don’t do it!
@@caseytbss That's sort of what I said. Those who can, solder. Those who can't solder, crimp. Crimping is fairly easy, as long as one knows to use the proper tools. (Pliers of any type make a very poor crimp tool.) Of course, someone who wants to solder will never learn until he tries it. One interesting thing I've learned is some people are good with tools, and some people are outright masters regarding tool use. Either way, new tools usually come with instructions. I watched my dad become a self-taught master trim carpenter & cabinet maker. The interesting part is his method. First: He bought the tools (beginning with a power miter saw.) The included instruction sheet on how to use the tool was his first course in carpentry. Then, next tool ...
Second: Get it right or try again. It's just like playing guitar. If you practice a mistake, you'll learn a mistake, therefore play a mistake.
So for someone who wants to know how to solder, buy a soldering iron, read the instructions, learn. Then, next step ...
As an ex Air Force missile technician I was trained to solder to NASA HRHS (High Reliability Hand Soldering) technique. You can crimp all you want I will continue to solder without failure.
Spoken like the hardworker you are not the shortcut lames that want that half ass connection! Been soldering car audio obvious difference in low end sound!!
3m micro mini soldering and circuit board repair class
6 years in the Marines doing aviation radio repair, I'll solder all electrical connections in vehicle.
@@Scheminhos Same.I solder all of my Vehicle and Home Audio and have honestly never had a failure in over 25 years.
Dude your crazy
I am 74 years old. I built my first crystal radio at age 8. I have spent my entire life in consumer and industrial electronics. I solder EVERYTHING. I usually even solder crimp terminals. If you are having problems soldering items together, use the best solder, always use solder flux, always prepare the work target-wire-terminals-get them clean and shiny. Use a good clean soldering iron ( or gun, love my 25 year old weller gun for big stuff ). Don't rush an iron, let it get to temperature. Always remember you are soldering the wire, not the solder. The objective is to get the work piece hot enough to flow the solder onto it. Learn how to solder.
yup, I solder all uninsulated crimps. Gotta watch out so the solder doesn't wick up the wire past the joint though
His point isn't the quality of the solder joint but the reliability in an automobile where the motor mounts allow a little back and forth movement and where vibration is ever present. Diesel engines are the best vehicle vibrators.
pretty much exactly what my dad taught me as a kid 20 years ago when i got interested in electronics and repair, he HATED rosin core solder and so do i after trying it a few times. I always add flux to the wire, then pure solder
I'm a 75 year old electrical engineer and serviced everything from computers to heavy power conductors. The right technique and tools for any job is always dictated by the job and circumstances, not the worker's preferences. You must have worked with 24 to 18 gauge conductors under easy access conditions and not need to pin a multi-conductor connector with many fine conductors designed for precision crimping of tiny gold plated pins, had to splice a damaged conductor in a location where you couldn't get a soldering iron, micro-torch or match into position, or serviced heavier gauge inline power circuits - in the field. Virtually all fine and heavy power conductors are connected and repaired with compression/crimping terminals, not soldering.
i solder crimp terminals as well.
As a 40 year electric forklifts mechanic I soldered connections for used in all kinds of corrosive environments. I never had a failure as opposed to some of my counterparts who relied on crimp joints that saw failures. Properly soldered and installed wire connections will not fail. Crimped connections also fail due to heat from bad connection.
Yeah, I never crimp wires under the hood of a car. Solder with dielectric grease and heat shrink tubing and I've never had a problem in thirty years. Crimps just do not last and are an easy point of failure. Ask me how I know.
A poorly performed crimp will always fail. Get a good set of crimpers with the appropriately sized splice and you will never have an issue. The issue with saying that you've done this for a long time is that the correct crimpers have been becoming more and more available recently so I'm not surprised you've seen connections fail.
Try to crimp joint on a marine engine, customer will come back to you soon.
I also work on industrial equipment which includes forklifts. I've never once had a soldered joint fail but I've seen plenty of crimped connections fail. I've noticed most technicians use crimping because it's quicker and easier. I use Deutsch connectors when a connector is needed.
@@madmotoadv6595 can you post the spec of the crimp joints you recommend?
Nearly sixty years ago, my Dad taught me how to solder. He'd been a radar technician on a carrier in WWII and learned the importance of making a strong mechanical connection before actually soldering. Admittedly, warship techniques may be overkill for ordinary work, but I've never had a proper solder joint fail, which is more than I can say for crimp connections.
germany doesnt exist
No, warship techniques are not overkill for ordinary work. You're dead right about having to have a strong mechanical joint before soldering. Soldering is for conductivity, not physical strength (unless you're a plumber and don't care about leaks).
Can you teach us?
@@yeders sorry i cannot i only know shabiddy toilette and encadenent
@@yeders Not now. My hands and eyesight are no longer up to it.
While your soldering joint is OK, a couple of tips...
1. Use flux. Liberally apply flux to the wires before soldering. The rosin core of your solder isn't enough.
2. Twist the wires into a Lineman's Splice before soldering. The Lineman's Splice is stronger than the wires themselves. This step insures that there is no way the splice will fail before the wire will. Adding the solder to the Lineman's Splice will aid in lowering electrical resistance. Adding this step to your soldered wire joints is a complete game changer, and it is not difficult to do.
Using flux, a Lineman's Splice, and solder will result in a joint with less electrical resistance than any crimped solution out there, and far stronger than crimping.
And it might very well be over kill. There's nothing wrong with a properly crimped joint, either. This is a situation in which there is no real "correct" answer. Properly soldered or properly crimped is just fine for automotive electrical work, as long as either joint type is done correctly.
Source: I'm 56 years old, and have been soldering and/or crimping wiring harnesses on a wide variety of things... cars, trucks, tractors, trailers, RV's since I was 16. I have also done a lot of car audio installations. While I do stand by my above statement about there being no one "correct" solution, there is an exception to that rule: I *always* have and *always* will solder connections for car audio or alarm system installations to achieve the lowest electrical resistance possible across a joint.
Flux! As shown here, the wires are still fully covered in their own oxide. It isn't really soldering, the solder acts more like glue here. Such connections are still going to reliably rot away, speed depending on humidity and temperature.
By "lineman's splice" you mean a Western Union joint, right? Yep, that's exactly what I've done forever, and there ain't any way that splice is ever coming apart before the wire itself snaps.
@@joeschmo622 Yes. The full name would be "Western Union Lineman's Splice," which is commonly shortened to "Western Union joint/splice" or "Lineman's splice."
And as you and I stated, it is stronger than the wires themselves. Done correctly, the solder is optional, but does help to decrease electrical resistance.
Rosin core solder has the Flux inside of the solder. Stick to what you know.
Ooooh! Way to tell 'em
Don't forget to put the heatshrink tubing on BEFORE you crimp! Ask me how I know!
I've done that far too many times 😂
no you should put the heat shrink tubes before you crimp🤣🤣🤣🤣
There are literally solutions for insulating connections that have already been made. It's done frequently to protect many solder joins on circuit boards - conformal coatings. The same can be done with field repairs - liquid electrical tape and RTV work well if the surface is prepped and there's enough time allowed for them to cure.
In the aviation electronics industry, we were taught (as inspectors) to be aware of solder migrating under the insulation, for the exact reasons you stated- after some vibration, the wire will break. Good video! Thanks.
Man, I've been doing it wrong for 50 years. Thank you for your insight and showing me the error of my ways. In a prior life I used to do mobile electronics installations (audio, 2-way radio's) and I soldered all wiring under 16ga. The technique I always used was to clean/flux/tin the wires, apply heat shrink tubing to each individual joint, and if possible, another larger piece of tubing over the entire cable, lay the wires parallel (never twist - makes the joint too large), solder them together with LEADED solder - no-lead solder is a lot more brittle. Rinse/repeat for all the other wires, apply dielectric grease over the joints, slide the HS over the joint & shrink with hot air - NEVER use an open flame. The excess grease should squeeze out the ends. Once all the individual wires have been soldered/greased/shrunk then apply an additional layer of dielectric grease over/around all the splices, then slide the outer tubing over the repaired area and shrink that down. If it's in a harness, I still pack the joints with grease then use high quality electrical tape over the entire harness to help protect the joints. For wiring that's more exposed, I'll use 3M mastic tape instead of electrical tape for addition protection. I've found that it works better if I heat it up with my heat gun before applying it. Once the repairs are complete, I use plenty of wire ties to mechanically secure the harness from flapping in the breeze to prevent stresses on the wiring to concentrate at the joints. If it's just a few wires I'll take a bit of larger, solid wire and tape it parallel with the wire(s) extending past the joint on both sides to provide mechanical support and prevent any flexing @ the joints. I've done thousands of joints on cars, trucks, boats, trailers, motorcycles, mowers, CNC forklifts, machining centers etc. using these techniques and as far as I know, not a single joint has ever failed. To be clear, I use crimp connectors & ferrules all the time, but usually when it's in a dry environment, and typically to terminate wiring, rarely for splicing.
The bottom line is it doesn't matter if you crimp or solder the connections as long as you do it correctly. Just because a lot of folks do it wrong doesn't mean you should "NEVER" do it as you imply. In fact, in the 50 years I've been working on things, I've had several orders of magnitude more issues with people's crimp connections than I have soldered ones. If you do nothing to protect the joint from the elements, a crimped connection will fail quicker than a soldered one due to moisture ingress and corrosion. This is especially true up here in the north where tons of salt is dumped on the roads in the winter. I've seen exposed crimped connections fail in less than a year due to salt corrosion. Crimped connections do tolerate mechanical stresses better, but again it's down to proper technique and providing mechanical support. But the most often missed step on exposed connections is dielectric grease. I don't think I've ever seen anybody doing 'repair' videos use it. I see some folks like this video advocating adhesive lined shrink tubing and it's certainly better than nothing but not something I'd recommend. Besides being a lot less common and more expensive than plain HS tubing, it's only going to be effective if your wiring is clean, and only if it's a single, individual wire that the tubing can shrink completely down to without any gaps. Too often I'm doing multiple wires or different sized wires where I won't get a complete seal with the tubing. If you use dielectric grease then it doesn't matter if there's any gaps, the grease completely fills the voids when it gets shrunk down. The butt splice connectors that come with DE grease and shrink tubing that you showed are pricey, but the best alternative for folks that don't do this sort of work often.
It's too bad these younger generations weren't here to tell you the right way to do it! Then you wouldn't have been fuckin' up for 50 years! LOL !
I like your splint made with a larger, stiff wire., I do that sometimes, when necessary. On really small wires, if the heat shrink doesn't shrink enough to stay in position, I have cut a sliver off a hot glue stick and slid it into the HS tube beside the splice. Shrinking the tube melts the glue and that splice is permanent. It will not come apart. The wire will not flex enough to break it where it might be hardened from soldering. I usually replace damaged power cords, but when I need one fixed now, without disassembling the tool, I splice with solder, wire nuts, etc. (whatever I have, because the tool is currently being used.) But when I am taping my splice, I cut a piece of mule tape longer than the splice and add it after I wrap the first layer of tape. But I will slightly bend the cord at the splice, then tape both ends of the mule tape first. That takes all of the stress off of my splice or spot where the outer sheath is damaged leaving the conductors exposed. That's a temporary patch, but sometimes it has to last for a day or two.
@@SteveWhiteDallas The circle of life Steve! Young kids always think the older generation are a bunch of fools. Youth know better with their 2 years of experience than the older generation with decades. This video is a good example. He's basing his conclusion that soldering wires should never be done based on his experience with repairing stuff that folks with no clue what they're doing totally screwed up and came to the incorrect conclusion that it was because they were soldered instead of the correct assessment that they were simply done by hacks.
Sorry Dude. I am DOT, Nuke, and Manned space flight certified. (30 years expired) The Guy did a piss poor job as he taught you the right way. HAHAHAHAHHAHA.
@@user-tc1dd8im4z I'm not sure what "30 years expired" means, but I know very well how to recognize immaturity when I see it. I also know how much easier it is to say "you're wrong" than it is to say what is right.
DOT, Nuke, Manned space flight ... You might be the only one who doesn't see how those 3 descriptions don't match. You would have been a little more convincing if you had stopped with DOT. Either way, the HAHA... did nothing to suggest any credibility. Don't you have a video game to play, or homework to do?
@@SteveWhiteDallas Just like all professional certifications, they do expire without ancillary training. I passed a DOT electronic soldering /crimp test in the 90s Easy Squeezy, and a military 3-month test that required perfect solder joints at X100 mag of everything you could think of, and a few you would never think of like: repairing integrated circuits @ X500 mag, and crimping in 1986. I stand by what I said. the shown crimp and soldering is wrong. He has been doing it wrong for a very very very very long time. When you teach, you teach perfection, and let the home student do it to whatever they want to settle for. Are my joints all 100/500 perfect? Hell no. That is not required for any automotive, cell phone, or communication work. But, what is shown does not make a DOT grade. PERIOD. You do not melt the shielding for one. Do I use crimps like that overpriced Chinese-made snap-on piece? Yep, for job security. You let idiots use them so I am forced to repair their fixes.
Just so you know,
When a South East Pennsylvania Transit Authority train crashed, I was shitting bricks for a few days. I inspected those trains. Ended up tossing the trip-stop equipment because it was expensive to maintain.
Fun Fact? All Nuclear missile codes for ground-launched Nukes from 1968 through the late 90s were 00000000 Funny as Hell. any, one winger pinger in the USAF could launch a nuke by himself with a nail, wooden dowl, and about 6 feet of boot shoelaces.
The fellow who does a hack job with soldering is also likely to do the same with the crimp. Attention to detail is key with anything and if you don't have that, the end result will be the same.
When you haven't the training you don't know what to pay attention to.
Exactly. Which is also why I saw his "what is soldering" by the book demonstration and laughed so hard at the melted insulation achieved around the joint and the holder clamps. Ofc I'll forsake soldering too with such unreliable results. 😁 Just like OEM is not always the best way, so is "by the book". I saw no flux (rosin) used and no pre-tinning - that is not called soldering. ✌
@@psdaengr911 if you dont have the training you shouldn't be doing any work on electrical wiring
@@bjorn1583 uiop uiopwhen will you stop doing skibidi toilet things
@@uiopuiop3472 when will you learn to spell
Been a aircraft tech for 30 years, and that crimp connection will break easier at the crimp than the solder one will. We do crimp on aircraft, but they are environmental crimps with crimpers that are calibrated. I still prefer a good hot solder to any crimp. We used to use those crimps you like on our strobe lights, but got away from them. Failure rate was high. I will never be convinced a crimp is better than a solder. Twist that crimp joint like you did with the solder joint.
don't worry, plenty of car mechs disagree with this dude. they do get their soldering right.
Brad you just answered the question mate, good quality crimps with good quality crimp tool. Crimping wins hand down over soldering by a country mile in automotive wiring. so we have to disagree on that one ,but nice comment thanks
@@v4vauxhall498 I don't care what crimp you use it isn't better than a solder. Unless you don't know how to solder. I use some if the best crimper around being in aviation, they are calibrated every year. And no they don't make a better connection. Just a faster one
@@helomech1973 you'd be surprised about how many people don't know how to Solder 😉
@@RotaryDaddy lmao, you right. Offhand I would say all these people saying connections are better.
If you wick solder past the wire insulation, it is due to very poor tools and/or technique. This usually is caused by using too small a wattage iron which means you have to heat the wire far too long letting the heat extend well down the wire. It can also be caused by simply adding in far too much solder. A high wattage iron will heat the join area very quickly and the soldering will be done before the heat and solder can wick down the wire under the insulation. And you need very little solder. And if you apply shrink tube to provide some additional strain relief past the insulation, issues with vibration and fatigue breakage simply aren’t an issue. These issues are due to poor technique.
A quick summary:
1. Poor soldering is a bad way to splice wires.
2. Poor crimping is a bad way to splice wires.
3. Good soldering is a good way to splice wires.
4. Good crimping is a good way to splice wires.
I personally like both methods, but use crimping more simply due to its convenience and speed. You can work in the field without need for electrical power of any sort and crimping is pretty fast with the right tools and a little practice. However, if I need a super reliable, super strong and low resistance connection, I will use solder every time.
One thing I have wanted to do, but have yet to invest time in is testing soldered splices vs. crimped splices for both resistance and pull strength. I strongly suspect that solder would win both contests and I saw one TH-camr who did the resistance test and solder clearly won that, but, as I recall, he did not strength test the connections which would have completed the puzzle.
The wire will break before a good solder joint. If a solder joint fails before the wire breaks, it was a bad solder joint or the wire is too big to solder. For example, 2/0 AWG is too big to solder. However, if the proper crimps and crimper are used, the wire will never slip out of the crimps. If properly soldered or crimped, 16 AWG will break before the joint fails. Transmission lines are neither soldered nor crimped and rarely (if ever) fail in done properly. The best joint method depends on wire type and size. If signal passing through a splice is an issue, you should avoid splices or install the proper equipment to repeat the signal.
@@SteveWhiteDallasI always solder 2/0 battery cables into copper lugs. I've never had one fail. Even on big diesels in Alaska winter.
"will never hold a soldering iron within 5 feet of a car".... is another way of saying.... "I can only park one vehicle in my two car garage". Quite a demonstration of character and commitment to ones convictions!
Or it might be another way of saying "I'm not experienced enough with soldering to get consistent results". Avionics Tech here
LMAO Haha Hehe Lady Gaga Pee Pee
More like learning and realizing what superior connections really are
Having over 40 years experience working in electronics and being a backyard mechanic I think the most important message you could give would be that you should do what not only works best for you but has the best chance of long term success. There are places I wouldn't trust solder, and for simplicity a lot of my work uses a good quality heat shrink crimp. But anything I can bench I still prefer to use solder.
For joining wire ends, crimping makes a ton of sense. For integration I prefer solder since it would require you to cut the factory wire. Different techniques for different applications. Great video!
There is one reason and only one reason why OE manufacturers crimp instead of solder - it costs less to crimp. If soldering was less expensive, the OE manufacturers would solder. It has nothing to do with crimping being "superior" to soldering. Circuit boards are soldered because it is the least expensive way to produce them.
I solder small gauge wires (after crimping them if using a connector) and I hydraulic crimp large gauge wires for my car. It is harder and more time consuming to make a good looking wire to wire solder joint (mostly in the twisting of the wires), but somehow more satisfying.
good enough for oem would be the case. good enough for aviation as well.
Oem crimps for speed and because it’s easier to do a proper crimp. A poorly the soldered joint will fail from the vibration vehicles go through. Circuit boards are soldered because you cant crimp to them.
@@txmits507 nasa and race teams also crimp due to the chance of failure from vibration with soldering
@@jeff666p
NASA-STD-8739.3. specifically allows soldering. Who told you they only crimp?
I’ve been an industrial robot technician for over 30 years. They move and vibrate on top of hard running machinery 24/7. We crimp connector pins because that is what they are designed for. For every other in line type wire connection we solder. I have never had or seen a properly soldered connection fail. NEVER. I have seen dozens of crimps fail.
Thanks for the advice homie!
I’ve connected 100’s of wires working on classic cars over 20 years and if you use good thick shrink tubing, that wire is not gonna bend at the solder point causing a break like you illustrate in my experience. Having said that, sometime I just don’t have the space to solder. If I use a crimp connector, also use good shrink tubing but if it’s on the outside of the car I’ll also add liquid electrical “tape” on top of that. Never had a problem
Thank you for posting how the unisolated crimps work and with the special type of pliers. I definitely learned something and will be picking up a crimper set for them.
I wish you would have tested the resistance of the various connectors and the solder.....that is a very important aspect, especially if you're dealing with something like a signal wire.
exactly
The resistance is most likely going to be the same. But.... in the automotive world, we care more about voltage drop. It is a more accurate measurement of wattage loss at the connection.
The most critical analog signals in a modern car are sensors. All of them have plugs - mated pairs of mechanical connectors.
If resistance is that critical, splicing wires might not be a good option regardless of the method used
@@toywrench1 On a 10 amp circuit, 0.10Ω will consume 1 volt. That's approximately an 8% voltage drop on a 12 volt system. Voltage = current x resistance (volts=amps x ohms) Power = voltage x current (Watts = volts x amps)
When I worked for GM, they would include the crimp/seal splices in connector repair kits. They included in their electrical repair kits that were shipped to the dealer with a set of ratcheting crimpers. They work perfect and never failed me once. That's why I bought a pair online from crimp supply. They are a little pricey, but worth the money because of how well they work.
Ive seen more crimps come loose than i have proper solder joints in my 30 year tech career! Sorry your wrong!
See you're comparing proper solder joints to any crimp joint. I have no doubt you've seen more *improperly performed* crimps come loose. When people use the 5 dollar stamped sheet metal crimpers you get at the parts store I'm not surprised they come apart. If people spent just a bit more money and got a good tool for it there wouldn't be an issue. Honestly don't know why they even still sell those.
@@RotaryDaddy so it’s only wrong when done in the way that fits your argument. There is absolutely ZERO reason, to not solder wires in things like a radio harness, etc. Your entire argument revolves around someone doing it wrong, or poorly. You made no real argument with actual Pros and Cons as to why soldering is bad. It only poses risk if DINE WRONG. That isn’t a reason to not do something at all. A poorly soldered joint will be terrible, so will a poorly crimped joint. Everything is bad if done poorly. Wires soldered together have a significantly lower chance of arching. They have a significantly lower chance of coming apart.
Saying you “won’t be caught within 5 feet of a car with a soldering iron”, is literally stealing from yourself. You very clearly know how to solder, I’m confident your soldered wires will be fine. Just spend the extra time, and solder.
@@ernieoporto1111 nope
This guy's is sooooooo wrong... for a anti solder guy he knows so much about soldering...why...do not krimp..peroood
@@ernieoporto1111 well said buddy I too stand by your argument
Thanks for the video Irvin, we don't splice wires using soldering either on aircraft, we use Tyco Raychem D-200 MiniSeal Crimp Splices, which are similar to what you demonstrated.
I absolutely love the d200's! Little harder to get as they aren't sold in stores but that is one of the prime splice methods IMO
Not entirely true. We definitely do solder in some places of the aircraft
OEMs use crimps because it's quicker than trying to heat up every single connection and solder it.
For speaker wires crimps are fine but for larger gauge cables and heavier currents, you should definitely solder stuff. It's not about how strong the connection is, but how much current can flow through, and what your resistance looks like.
It takes me way longer to get a crimp twist the wires together & squeeze than it does to tap wires with solder 🤷♂️
Fast charging industrial batteries are best served by terminals that are crimped and soldered.
So solder to your battery posts?
@@psdaengr911 ofc its most good, but too much heat is not good for lithum** batts.. so ppl avoiding.
No, you should definitely crimp. And with a proper tool.
Nobody solders welding leads or battery cables for a very obvious reason...lol....solder is beyond awful for those high amperage applications. It's always some sort of mechanical connection if you want best results.
Sorry but I am a solder man. I was amused when Steve white in the comment said a good crimp joint is better than a bad solder joint that applies the other way as well
I've started to crimp more wires now than solder the last handful of years exactly because of the problem you showed with the wire breaking. Solder is brittle and can create a sharp bend radius point and break the wire as well. If you have good strain relief and wire securement, this can be nearly eliminated. I've also learned somewhat recently how much of a difference a good iron makes. A digital soldering iron like you have that regulates temp can make a way better joint.
One thing I do to make sure my crimps don't develop any corrosion and/or resistance is to dip the wire end in dielectric grease. That fills in the microscopic voids in the metal to keep out air and moisture. The pressure of the crimp moves the grease out of the way from metal-to-metal contact. I can't measure any resistance difference. Then I'll follow up (after a pull test) with some adhesive lined heat shrink.
Nice video. I would like to add that the ratcheting feature of the better crimper will help ensure repeatably good crimps. When doing a bunch of crimping one's hand can get tired. So without the ratchet feature the first crimp is likely to be a better crimp than the last. The ratcheting crimpers don't let go if you don't crimp hard enough. Go for a quality ratcheting crimper all the time, and it is good that the ratcheting crimp tools aren't $300+ each anymore.
The connectors being matched to the conductors and the tool is as important as the crimper.
Essentially ran across this by accident, but I'm glad I did. I have run into the problems that you've described, this is really good information. I have some electrical work to do in my car and have been worried by the integrity of the connection exactly as you've described. This is very good information.
Crimping, when done correctly, and with a good quality terminal, is the BEST way to connect wires to each other, and to terminals. Period. Gas tight joints result, which is what you want, and is what all the car manufacturers use. Good video.
GREAT VIDEO!
Tip for basic crimp connector shown at 9:00 & 10:40 :
There is provision for an insulation crimp; beyond the metal barrel about midway on the belled ends.
Some of the flat metal style crimpers have another 'die' at the tip marked 'ins'.
This will add some support to the wire.
I agree with much of what you say.
I am a professional, and I prefer soldering, but I totally agree that a DIY MUST have sufficient skills and 'finesse' if they are going to solder connections.
The huge issue is having CLEAN copper wires.
Many repairs are on old or existing wire, which are aged, and have a tarnish fro air and insulation outgassing.
This MUST be cleaned until the wires shine like a new penny for the solder to actually bond properly.
(should look like brand new striped wire gleam).
Small wire brush (toothbrush) or sand paper. And if it is stranded, then you have to 'squash' the strands flat from multiple directions, cleaning it each time, to get to the interior strand surfaces (very difficult BTDT).
Otherwise the solder is only going to grab the outside surface strands (and only on their outside faces), and only the outside strands will be conduction the current!
Two technical tips:
Iron tip life can be shortened by overly frequent tinning.
Solder slowly dissolves the iron cladding (or very fast on copper, in the case of solid copper tips).
If it looks as good as the tip you showed, and takes solder readily while soldering, then I would use it as is.
When it has scale or solder beads up and does not flow onto the tip while soldering, clean or re-tin it then.
[sometimes if the tip gets neglected or won't tin, I wire-wheel it, followed with proper tinning...]
With experience and skill, you can limit how far the solder 'wicks' up inside the insulation.
This is difficult to do in one motion without getting a 'cold' joint in the center (bad, 'unstuck' solder).
This is done adding minimal solder to the center and staying there a second or two until it penetrates there and bonds.
Then add more solder running the tip out to the ends, tinning the entire joint, and stopping when you see it reach the insulation. Remove the tip then before it runs up under the insulation too far.
Your technique is very good.
The reason behind tinning is so you don't end up getting an oxidation layer on your iron. Also you should be doing it AFTER every time you use the iron
I do it before and after! It also helps transfer heat from your iron when you have a nice tinned tip! 🤘
very good video, totally agree with ya on soldering. few people do it right, also takes longer. but as a retired service tech for MOPAR products, i always crimped and soldered splices with sealing heat shrink. which was per MOPAR wire repair standard.
Everything about this video was amazing! Straight to the point and informative, showed what you meant as well as explained what you meant, and packed it with good info. Thanks for this!
Never had a problem with correctly soldered connections.
Crimped connections work for a while but they develop surface corrosion
between the wire and terminal over time. The corrosion interferes with conductivity
and causes high resistance. Many electrical problems are the result.
David, have you seen that with the weatherproof pink butt connectors he showed? I have never had one come back to me after years of using them.
If you´re working in the dashboard or other place inside the car´s habitacle crimping is acceptable although I always prefer soldering. But if you´re working outside the car´s habitacle when the wires are more exposed to the elements then soldering is definitely the way to go because copper and brass oxidize over the years increasing the joint´s resistance. If you´re worried about breaking the soldered joint just solder a smaller length with less solder wire and don´t stay all that time with the soldering iron in contact with the joint, this will result in spreading the solder into the wire´s interior ruining the flexibility. Make a smaller joint, use some solder paste flux to accelerate the soldering process and you will see that the flexibility of the soldered joint will be pretty much the same as a crimped joint. Add some heatshrink tube and you´re good to go. You don´t need nothing very fancy, just a normal soldering iron, paste flux and normal solder will do, no need for flux core solder if you´re using paste flux. The trick is to solder the joint only in a couple of seconds to avoid too much spreading of the solder. The wire will stay flexible and the connection will have low resistance pretty much forever.
I’ve watched a lot of vids on this topic as a diy’er, and I’ve def changed my opinion on crimping. I’m going to invest in some better gear now. But, your comment raises one point I still haven’t found a convincing answer to. Is soldering going to be better for undercar/exposed joints that will perhaps experience salt water (boat trailers) and lots of contamination from all the stuff we unknowingly drive through. Are really nice open barrel crimped connectors still the best for those situations or would a well supported solder joint be better in a that type of high corrosion environment ?
@@biopsiesbeanieboos55 main thing to worry about in that case is weathersealing. Getting a good adhesive lined heat shrink over any joint that's going to be exposed to the elements is a must! The nice thing about the higher end butt connectors is that they come with that already and it's a simple case of crimping the connector and shrinking the provided heat shrink.
Totally agreed those crimped wires causes so much problems when exposed to elements, and the example this guy gives is unreal what part of a harness will bent 45° or 90° like he did? I have solder some wires in my car like 10 years ago the solder is still intact
@@RotaryDaddy why not do both solder AND crimp lol
Heat shrink with weather proofing adhesive
Crimping does has its advantages when working on auto electricals, when techs/mechs are inside tight spaces like under the dashboard. An iron in that space is challenging, if not problematic. Extra care is a must, to avoid burning the carpet or melting the plastics. Also, the repaired joint, soldered or crimped, must be away from any locations where it will be bent, pulled or strained. Thanks for sharing!
The switch from lead-containing solder to no-lead solder has made soldering a lot more difficult, for me anyway. A lot of soldering tools, electric or butane, just don't seem to get hot enough for the new formulations, even though they're in the store right next to the no-lead solder.
And no, I don't want to go back to the old style; I remember as a kid seeing that the age of death for electronic repairmen was relatively young compared to similar jobs for some unknown reason, and that bothered me, since I really liked repairing electronics.
I have three crimping tools, not one of them will crimp terminals tight enough so that pulling on them will not pull them apart. Soldering is a different matter, pull as much as you like, the terminal will not come apart. Look at any crimped joint that has been in use for a while, the joint is full of crud, you'll also notice frayed wires, not with soldered terminals. It is often said soldering is no good because the copper hardens and the copper wire will fracture because it is not flexible. That's true, however, the copper only hardens for around 10-12mm after the terminal. Who the hell leaves as little cable as that free. Typically, in cars there is 10 times that amount of free cable after a terminal. Crimp terminals are rubbish and for amateurs. If you want a strong, weatherproof and professional looking terminal, solder it and apply heatshrink. I use crimp terminal, but rather than crimp them, I remove the plastic insulating material, solder the wires in place and apply heatshrink. For non insulated terminals, I crimp them small joint, then solder it, then crimp the larger joint around the insulation. I've been doing it this way on cars and bikes for over 50years, I've. Never had one failure. Wish I could say the same for crimp connections applied by auto electricians. Crimp terminals are used commercially because it is simply the quickest and cheapest way of doing it. What do you want, a quick cheap connection that will eventually fail, or a proper, failsafe connection that will outlast you?
A crimped connection that can be seen to be full of crud was either full of crud to start or left exposed to the environment. The same is true of a corroded solder join.
@@psdaengr911 Well unfortunately, crimped connections are quite often left in the open: Trailers caravans, motorbikes, etc, so while they may start out clean and unfrayed they don't stay that way long. Soldered joints on the other hand are for all intents and purposes 'sealed joints' no crud can get in there.
If you must insist on soldering.... use a small amount of paste flux on the wires to be joined together, that will help wick the solder into the joint in a matter of seconds. That will eliviate the extended time on the wire with the soldering iron so you are not melting the wire insulation ends trying to melt the solder getting it to flow. Be sure to use at least 70% isopropel alcohol to clean the flux off the joint afterwards, as its considered acidic, then use heat shrink tubing as always to seal the deal.
The only crimps that have ever worked consistently well for me are those bare copper ones they sell at Home Depot which look like little (maybe 1/4" to 3/8") segments of copper tubing. Everything else has seemed hit or miss, maybe because, as a DIYer I never develop a consistent habit of matching the crimps to the crimping tool. One other thing that has always worked perfectly for me was to cut the leads to different, complimentary lengths, so that the connections are offset from each other, then square-knot one pair, twist and tape it, square-knot the other pair, twist and tape that, then put either tape or heat shrink tubing around the whole thing. The knots guarantee a strong, permanent, self-tightening connection while the offset protects against shorts. The one caveat is that you have to know how to make a square knot with very short lengths of wire.
I've been soldering and crimping auto wires for 50 years and no problems, depends on the location.
If the soldered joint is part of a bunched loom then vibration won't be a problem as the repaired wire is supported by all the other cables
Even if the joint isn't waterproof (which it should be in cars) a correctly soldered joint will survive.
The wire around it will rot leaving the solder joint still intact.⚠️
The ultimate joint would be a soldered crimp which I carry out if heavy currents are involved like on starter circuits or glow plug ccts.
Very good demo at the end though.
Fair play to ya 👏
6:55 The solder spike on the joint is something to watch out for also; that can happen with insufficiently heated joints as the iron pulls away and leaves with the solder trailing behind. Or if the wire wrapping isn't done carefully, with individual strands of wire poking outwards.
That can end up piercing the heat shrink and could potentially short out to something.
I check my soldered splices and if I see the signs you mention, I just squeeze them with a plier to fix them.
@@andrewmccarthy4144a helpful hint here: if you get a slider spike it means you’ve cooked off your flux. Reflow it easily by heating the joint and touching a little more solder (with flux core) to the joint and pull the heat and solder away once all solder has fully wetted. Another way is to add a small amount of flux to the joint and reheat but this is not my preferred method as it requires cleaning more residue. Usually 1-1.5 seconds at 600 Fahrenheit depending on the joint. Could be longer based on the wire size, soldering equipment, or strand type. Also be sure to keep that tip clean, and tinned with solder. Contamination from burnt flux, overheated solder, insulation material, or substrate coatings will prevent your tip from effectively transmitting heat energy to the joint.
Happy soldering hope this helps!!
@@WHMAGuyRight!
A good way to get a spike is not tin your wires. Get a holding device, tin your wires, tin your clean tip, then let the solder hold the wires together. There is no need to wrap them, stick them through a hole in a terminal or anything like that. Put each wire in a clamp, bump them together, heat, add a little solder, get off of it, watch the shine fade as it cools. Just enough solder that you can't see the strands of the wire but not enough to make a fat ball, oblong bead or a drip hanging down below.
Well... I've been doing electrical work on cars for a long time....and for the first years I did a lot of twisting and electrical tape... I'm not proud of it.. but it work.. in a perfect world I would use your method, but a lot of times the place the repair needs to be made is tight. Either soldering or crimping make the joint rigid and can break.. for thick cables I crimp with a hydraulic crimper... everything else I solder... and about a year ago I started using the heat shrink that has built in solder ring and weather proof ends. In my opinion, way better than conventional soldering and wayyyyy better than crimping. More flexible, easier to do, look a lot more professional....
I do respect those heatshrink solder sleeves a lot more than just normal solder but I still think crimping is the best way to join wires in most applications 🤘
good video. reminds me of my journey through doing auto electrics in my car. Istarted off by doing crimps.. then moved up to soldering.. and then reverted back to crimps.
very good to see the tool your using, it made me realise i need to upgrade mine to get it completely right.
I don't know if anyone else commented this, but on the Tip maintenance, one thing I run into a lot, Is that people don't know is that the tips of a iron actually have a different metal plating at the tip. While tinning is an important part, one SUPER IMPORTANT thing NOT to do is use sandpaper on your tip to clean it. If you remove that plating, your tip have several different issues (ie the solder will not stick to the tip and trouble heating, esp after the insulating oxidation layer forms).
If you notice your tip, it has a nice clean line a bit back from the tip. This is a sign of a good tip with the plating still intact. But I've seen people who take sand paper to "clean" the tip ruining their tips and having trouble soldering because it's gone.
I agree with everything in this video. Non-insolated connectors are the only style we use at work too for the very same reasons you highlighted. I've never seen oem employ any other method
Thank you so much for this video. I was dreading the thought of soldering hundreds of 22 ga wires cut from an auto harness. Using the open barrel crimp method will reduce the time needed by 10x! Works great.
Haha, I've been reading all the fiery comments. Both crimping and soldering have their place. I've seen thousands of oem connections that are just like the ones I'm making now. ... and yes some might fail someday. Thx again.
Lmaooo! Yea good luck crimping those hundreds of connections! Soldering is infinitly faster than crimping tiny ass crimpers
Something that I want to add to this video is that the heat shrink tubing crimp conenctors are actually significantly easier to crimp in terms lf clamping force needed because instead of clamping down on a hard thick plastic shell you are clamping down on a thin layer of rubber over the actual interior metal connector. Its way eaiser on your hands and it's much easier to get a good secure crimp in my experience.
Thanks for this video. What kind of crimp do you recommend for a removable connection, like a wire connecting to a relay? Cheers.
I like soldering. I do a good job of it and I cant recall anything I’ve ever soldered failing.
My ex boss thought he could solder. He didn't even know what flux is and what it does. He crimped everything, also poorly, I might add. 😂
Crimping or properly splicing a wire or connector gives you the mechanical hold, while soldering reinforces the electrical connection. As someone experienced in both automotive and electronic/electrical repair, I can guarantee that a spliced/crimped, soldered (PROPERLY!) and then protected (adhesive lined shrink wrap is my preference) is the most reliable, long term repair you can achieve. Where the problem lies is there are far too many hack soldering jobs where a booger of a cold solder joint is left hanging uninsulated as the sole "repair" to the connection, or the connection deteriorates and introduces way too much resistance into the circuit over time.
Excellent information here, a good splice, crimp, solder, with an adhesive shrink wrap is where If ind the most success. Soldering takes a lot of practice to get right and doing a poor job even with the above mentioned connection can cause be the sole cause of that type of connection to fail. But when done right, you can expect that connection to outlive the cars useful life.
A proper inline solder slice starts with a basic trapeze grip "2 hands gripping wrists" connection that is reinforced against easy separation by the solder - and newer solders are stringer than the old tin-lead ones. The problem with connections is lack of training.
a proper solder joint requires a good mechanical and electrical connection first, the solder is then added...this video must be talking about those solder jobs we see on those fake free energy videos or those "arts and crafts diy creative build your own whatever " were they touch the soldering iron on 2 wires or 2 components and blob them together...thats not soldering
THANK YOU for encouraging younger generations to take the extra time and do the work RIGHT.
You are a great instructor. Clear explanations with demos. Hope to see more videos like this. Thank you.
Dont really work with wires much, but i am changing out some lights in the future so nice to know!☺️
Glad it was helpful!
About 20 years in here. I solder EVERYTHING. I will say that a good crimp joint is better than a bad solder joint. A proper solder joint with the correct type of heatshrink is always best.
I'm a trained electrician. You're completely right for the right reasons. Soldering inevitably creates stress points which, especially in automotive applications with all the vibration, are likely to lead to breakage. If you MUST solder, make sure you use enough heatshrink to completely immobilise the joint and its surroundings. Use a very thick soldering point, hot as hell, so you can quickly soak the joint with solder without soaking it up the wire. But crimping is the far superior way to connect wires.
Your solder joint would not meet mil spec that is used in military application where function is paramount. Proper heatsinks near insulation will limit solder wicking past insulation. You won't find nearly as many crimps on aircraft, spacecraft, or nuclear weapons as soldered joints. Any crimps will use documented calibration and pre/post sample crimps for pull testing verification. There is a reason that I had to certify soldering when I was in the service. Never had crimping certification. Never had a proper solder joint fail on many automotive applications and did so many times to repair crimp joints that were intermittent and difficult to diagnose. The repeated bending/flexing of crimps are just as likely to fail as a solder joint. Ever heard of a strain relief? Crimps are more convenient than soldering, but don't say NEVER solder!
Do you have access to any of that documentation? I'd like to read it! I am not completely against soldering, I just believe that to the average person it has a bit higher of a barrier to entry than crimping does nowadays.
@@RotaryDaddy You can google "MIL-S-45743E" and/or MIL-STD-1460. Those are the documents referenced on my certification card issued in 1980.
I agree completely on the open barrel crimps and terminals. Far superior. And if you really want a reliable, low resistance connection, solder the ends of the wires together at the middle of the open barrel crimp connector. That is a connection that can’t be beat either electrically or mechanically.
Good idea, never thought of that
I am impressed by the quality of the crimp you produced and will explore it further. I am an old solder guy. I use a 12 volt soldering iron that crimps onto the battery.
Good info! I worked in electronics for 29 years and never used a nice crimp tool like yours. Had to use those thin one at a time crimp tool. would have saved a lot of time and trouble when repairing my printers and copiers.
Great work with experiments to prove it!
I appreciate that! 🙌🏽🙌🏽
@@RotaryDaddy good luck with your you tube channel buddy!
I've been a professional mechanic for over forty years, so commenting on idiots making "how to" youtube videos is not unknown for me to do. LOL. So when I saw this one I decided, let's see how I can rip this guy a new one. Great job Irvin!!!! Well done. However, every splice no matter how it's done will end with a hard point that with vibration or flexing will break at that point. Heat shrink that extends beyond the hard point will serve as a flexible strain relief whether it is soldered or crimped. You are correct about solder creep, you just have to be conservative with the solder which can be really tough to do when you turn the splice over and see a bare spot. If it is a highly flexed area I would replace the whole section of harness so that the splice can be in an area that can be zip tied down P.S. the thickness of the Snap On crimp/strippers is also the length of bare wire you should have after stripping. So when you put the wire in the stripping area, don't let it protrude any more than the thickness of the handle.
As an MECP Master #10 , 1994 , and having installed tens of thousands of aftermarket remote starters with a 0.00% failure rate , I believe I can speak with authority on this issue. Soldering is ABSOLUTELY the best electrical connection one can do for a TAP connection. Especially for old school ,dyeing breed high current ignition switches Having done tens of thousands of soldered tap connections at a high current ignition switch harness , of course you have to take flexibility into account when you are dealing with a tilt/tele coulomb. Its simple, just make sure my harness moves like the factory harness .
You should have checked out where he recommends to buy these open barrel butt splices from, as they are BRASS. Which is not good to use as the signal/power doesn't travel through brass as well as it does the copper. Now I have no idea if they compensated for this by making the brass terminals 3x thicker than needed, but I doubt it.
@@colt5189 Interesting point on the brass. Clamping strength doesn't necessarily compute to an impedance gain or loss. Have you found a copper alternative? I did buy a bunch of the connectors and they do have their place, but I agree with your conclusion and would rather have copper.
@@howlinhog It's not necessarily about strength. It's about when using brass, it needs to be 3x thicker to carry the same current that copper can carry. Now, will this affect anything? I'm not sure. But I know they don't use brass wire, so no point in having the current pass to brass. I think these are brass because it's probably cheaper than pure copper.
40 year electronics tech here.
5:16 I prefer to bind the two wire ends together with a fine wire stripped from a separate piece of multiconductor.
This holds the joint together while I solder it. The joint is shorter and a smaller diameter than a twisted one.
Mechanical strength is greater too ,but that is not a major concern for electrical joints. Mechanical support is more important because the solder joint is a rigid section in a flexible cable ,and that is where failure will occur.
You are an intelligent guy and you have excellent ability to explain how you arrive at a conclusion. Nonetheless, I will continue to solder when & where possible. However, after watching your presentation I have much greater trust in crimped connections.
I just went out and did this on my car and it was really easy. Thanks for posting this man, it was really helpful :)
Glad it helped! 🤘🏼
Ive had my shop for 15 years. (Auto repair/Inspections etc.)
My 550hp Eclipse was wire tucked in 2010 with soldering, no issue to this day.
It wouldnt be proper practice to assume crimping every single wire splice of an ECM is OK.
One of the major components to a good solder is the amount of solder used.
Too much, more cracking. Too much, more resistance. Too little, .... safer!
In this video, you applied twice as much solder as I would.
Excellent video, glad to see you practice for perfection!
That wasn’t the weak point you demonstrated on the soldered joint.
Yes, the solidly soldered part is brittle and doesn’t bend, but it’s the stranded part bending against the rigid part that is weakest. Yes, the crimp is rigid too where the stranded wire going into it transitions but the stranded wire is all crimped tightly in the same spot, reinforcing each strand with the resistance of its neighboring strands.
The place where vibration will fray the wire is where the solder transitions to unsoldered strands at varying lengths inside the insulation. Because you have no control over where the solder will thin for each strand, the brittle transition point from flexible to rigid ends up being in a slightly different place for each strand. This lets the furthest strand take all the force of the vibration until it breaks, putting all the vibration into the next-furthest strand and making it thinner and thinner with each failed strand. This allows it to bounce/move more with the same amount of vibrational force being put into it fatiguing the remaining strands even quicker. When the last strand gives you will find the breaks millimeters apart proving the vibration did not ever need to overcome the strongest part (where you broke it).
I loved your wire nut rant 😂 straight up pulled a sub for the comedic side of this video, but this was the most in depth, accurate representation of what to do when soldering. May or may not have been soldering entirely incorrect lol
I've noticed that some of the cheaper non-heat shrink insulated butt connectors have a split seam (which is hard to see from the ends) that runs the length of the connector, and I think it's important to clock that seam to the top and bottom of the crimper jaws. If you have the seam on one side or the other, it ends up in a weaker flattened out "C"/clamshell shaped crimp that is very weak. Usually when I have a wire pull out of someone's previous work, it was crimped sideways with weak crimpers.
Can you do the bent test on your crimp wire. Same test as you did for the soldering wire.
Also how time did you have bend the wire unnaturally at a 90 degrees until the wire broke. I couldn’t tell do to the edit in the video
Many years ago I bought a set of heavy duty jumper cables made by a reputable brand. I used them when I got home to start my truck that I had ran dead playing the radio while I was working. I had to let the truck charge with the doner car running for for five minutes before it would start, keep in mind by trucks battery wasnt completely dead. I carried them with me and used them often over the next couple of years, all the while developing many more broken wires till eventually one of the clamps finally broke off. I still used them by just clamping the wire to the target with the clamp and that worked okay. Then another clamp broke off. I thought about buying a new set (50 ish bucks down the drain) but decided instead to solder the wires into the clamps. 14 years later, and I can use those cables to crank that same truck off of a good battery sitting on the ground, with the battery in the truck disconnected, and not a single broken wire in sight.
Thanks for sharing. Crimp is not only the way to go for a solid connection but also looks good and is a total pleasure to do if you just spend 5min to learn to do it right.
Great video, proper crimping goes a long way and is actually much faster than soldering. Another big one is using good connectors, DTM connectors can be purchased very cheaply (the crimpers for the pins are slightly more expensive) and work amazing leaving a very professional look
Good connectors take a build to the next level
All method will work.
1. Twist wires together.
2. Twist and solder.
3. Crimp.
All method work just fine.
Consideration on what method to use come up only when you are doing 100T joints. 😁😁😁 Then crimping is the hands down winner.
Don't get distracted by lengthy discussion, we just want get home for dinner,
All methods work fine until they're put into operation. This is about longevity and reliability
@@RotaryDaddy I had experienced patch up repair before when rats chewed the car wiring. A twisted wire splice and tape with another short piece of wire did the trick. And it run for another 5 years without problem. Then sold.
The crimp wiring is meant for production run. It is efficient and very cost effective. In fact, it's the only viable method. But for small repairs, it's not necessary.
You've got to understand, I work on cars for a living. The amount of shoddy repairs I see causing issues that people have to pay money for me to figure out is quite large. There is a reason I've developed such a strong opinion on such an obscure issue lol. Will it work to get you out of a pinch? Yeah probably, but it should be properly repaired as soon as the chance comes up.
@@RotaryDaddy ok. If you are willing to spend the time, go for it. I won't argue that your repair is neat. 👍
Thanks! My Google search for "should I solder or crimp wires" ended here. Thanks a lot, Irvin.
I worked for a company, that manufactured control computers, for nuclear reactors.
We had a meeting about crimping vs soldering.
It was determined, that twisted pairs need solder with moisture barrier heat shrink, and that crimp connectors should also be soldered, for redundancy.
I was part of that team, and was the one who suggested these processes.
DIY crimping, over time, will work the mechanical connection loose, causing connection issues down the road.
"But Ranger, all connectors in plugs used in vehicles are crimped!"
True, and most will last the lifetime of the vehicle, but some don't and need replacing.
Any mechanic with a year or two under their belts will tell you stories, of how multiple wire connector plugs, have needed to be replaced, from mechanical failure.
In fact, a good mechanic, knows how to replace the one or two bad pins, instead of the entire connector plug.
Bro, this is the best way to join two automotive wires! Been doing it for years and you just can't get better 👌 all these comments 'I've been soldering for 30 years...bla bla bla' are stubborn and aren't interested in change. Yes solder works but crimping is the ultimate, you won't find a solder joint on any OE manufactured vehicle today!
EXACTLY! One of my biggest pet peeves in this industry is people that flaunt how long they've been doing it. Like 30 years means nothing if you aren't constantly learning and adapting to changing technology. Thanks for watching! 🤘🏼
The reason no new car built today uses soldered wire terminations is that it is quicker and cheaper to crimp, not because it makes a better connection. I have worked on 1950's cars with original soldered wire terminal connections and not one has ever failed. On the other hand, some 1980's cars with original crimped connections are all going bad, with intermittent open circuits. In these cases the crimps have lost compression of the wire, allowing moisture to corrode the interface between the wire and terminal. This does not happen with the soldered joint because it does not rely on pressure to maintain electrical continuity.
16:50 Wow! The electrical current will be very happy knowing that the wire it cruises through can hold so much weight 😜😉. But jokes aside, mechanical strength is important, but so are the electrical characteristics. Although I am a fan of crimping when it comes to high power (especially high current) connections, I do prefer soldering for low power applications, such as digital and analogue signal cables. And let's face it: crimped connections are as susceptible to breaking on the edges as are the soldered ones. Without proper strain relief both are pretty much the same.
It wasn't a bad video and I can agree with most of your claims, but:
1. you are waaaay to wary of soldering. Come on, mate! It's electronics 101! It is not that hard. On the contrary: once you know the proper basics, it's quite hard to botch. Even with a cheap, crappy soldering iron. Heck! Even with a lighter and a bottle cap!
2. If you want to make a really good comparison between soldered and crimped joints, do some electrical comparison as well. I admit: mechanical strength is important, but it's only a half of the story. Get a thermometer (thermocouple or thermovision camera), put some amps over the connection and measure the temperature. Do that a couple of times (at least 20-odd) each time giving the connection some time to properly cool off and then gather the results. Lousy crimped connection can be just as useless/dangerous as a bad soldering. Sometimes even more so, because it “looks nice” weather it was done correctly or not. “Tug test” may also be inconclusive although it's not useless either. Anyhow, if the connection wasn't crimped strongly enough to form a proper “cold-weld” it will degrade over time much quicker than any soldered joint.
There is a reason oem companies don't use solder in their harnesses. The only place for it is SMD components. I have been soldering wires forever and have recently been converted to crimps. You can too lol.
I can't say that I'm personally too wary of soldering, just over the years I've seen quite a few failed soldering joints made by people who probably just didn't know what they were doing. As far as processes go, getting a good crimper and good connectors is all you need to make a reliable crimp connection. I just think the barrier to entry is a bit lower. And you're totally right there are better ways to test the connection along with different metrics that can be used to prove a joint's ability to transfer energy. Might make another video later doing some more tests!
@@Doomer17018 the reason is soldering is labor intensive and crimping can be automated. But we are talking splices in this video. There should be zero splices from the manufacture, and ideally zero in your work if you can avoid it.
I perfer crimping over soldering. i purchased a pioneer avh3500nex with pioneer backup camera. I ordered everything the same you got. Carpi strippers, and keeyees connectors came in today, waiting on the crimping ratcheting tool. Already have heat shrink. Imma give it a go. Great video 👌👌👍👍
Thanks for watching! Good luck on the radio install! 🤘
Another tip I never see talked about is Dielectric Grease. Ever hear of Galvanic corrosion, also called ' dissimilar metal corrosion?
I used to have an older Honda and found the under hood connection were filled with a viscus thick clear grease. I later found out what it was, Dielectric Grease.
Now I use it on almost every electrical connection. I like the Permatex brand in 3 oz size. One tube last forever. Here is an extreme example. I had some 500W halogen high power yard lights. The bulbs were only lasting a month or so. I filled each end of the bulb were it fits into the connector with Dielectric Grease.
That bulb lasted almost 2 yrs. Due to heat and high voltage the bulb mount on each end was experiencing accelerated Galvanic corrosion to the point is would fail due to elevated resistance. It was Galvanic corrosion, also called ' dissimilar metal corrosion.
The Dielectric Grease completely stopped this degradation due to oxidation and/or Galvanic corrosion. Almost every electrical connection will experience a slow increase in resistance specially if it is 2 different metals such as copper wire and a crimp on connector that is made from other metal, not copper.
Almost every electrical connection has a limited life time unless it is actually soldered. The Dielectric Grease extends the crimp or bolt connection lifetime 100 fold as no oxidation and less Galvanic corrosion can occur.
Just fill the connector and wires with a coat of Dielectric Grease then crimp it. Oh and don't forget to put dielectric grease on your battery terminals, every battery no matter what type benefits from this, Car battery and AAA batteries. I was having trouble with my small LED flashlights and dielectric grease helped. I think about the only battery I would not recommend dielectric grease on would be a watch battery. You would not want to take a chance on gumming up the moving parts with grease.
OMG, take it easy with the grease. i worked on some house wiring where someone used dielectric grease back in the 80s.
all the wires turned green and the grease made its way up the insulation. all the wiring, sockets and switches needed to be replaced.
@@echelonrank3927I don't normally use it on house wire connections. It did help on the 500w yard light bulb socket though.
This video made me hit the subscribe button. As a professional auto electrician I can't stress how important it is to stay away from joining wires in a car with solder. The amount of time I spend fixing broken and corroded soldering jobs on cars makes me want to go around destroying soldering irons...
Yeah man a lot of people haven't had to deal with bad solder joints as much as us 😂 Wouldn't be an issue if people knew how to solder and didn't just let shoddy work go out the door but that's the world we live in!
Well said
Lack of soldering almost caused a fire in my car. Always solder properly. If you can't, find someone who can (been soldering for over 50 years).
Why would lack of soldering cause a fire? In some locations, soldering simply isn't possible.
Great video, got another race loom to do and was finding more tips and tricks. Been soldering my race looms for years and with the heavy vibrations and crashes they break at the ends of the solder all the time . However my crimps always have the flex to keep the connection. A national super bike team told me never to solder a race bike as there's too much stress's and vibrations on the loom at 300km/hr . Paid an auto electrician to put in a trailer wire loom they soldered and guess what it failed within 5 years on the solder joints. . ten years later my crimps still hold.
mechanic here
Solder is great for things where resistance, voltage or current is critical.
Crimping is fine for everything else.
Both the solder and crimp make an inflexible part of the wire.
Most common wire break? Drivers door jam. Window not working? Power locks inop? (rear hatch might be second)
You can not put the repair in the flexible spot where the break happened.
You go 20cm in either direction (into the door and under the dash) and make 2 crimp connections with fresh wire between.
Crimps and splices will increase the girth of a harness. make sure to stagger them and not have them all in the same spot.
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It is difficult learn how to solder, but the solder joint done properly, is the better electrical joint.
This is a great video, but you forgot to mention something. Never, ever, ever, marry a stripper.
Unless her name is stripmaster ergo elite with optional wire stop she can get to stepping 😤
So the basic gist of things is if you do a bad job soldering or crimping you won't get a good connection.
I know how to solder correctly since I took the time to learn how to do it along with know what a good solder joint looks like. I will either use a Western Union Square Knot or a Bare Non-Insulated Crimp that I will Pin Crimp and then Solder it ensuring that no solder wicks up inside the insulation on the wire and then strain relief and seal the connection with Marine Shrink Wrap ensuring the heat activated adhesive flows and seals well.
Whatever you do.... don't crimp wires that have already been tinned unless you intend to solder the crimp afterwards.
Best!
Everyone can calm down, both crimping and soldering is effective if done correctly.
ECM's in your car have solder, wiring harness connector pins have crimp.
I have seen both fail equally from factory parts.
When soldering I add Flux to the wires first, then cross strand wires together, heat wire and touch solder to other side not touching solder to iron tip. I make sure it soaks into the wires fully but don't gob it. After I use quality heatshrink but put dielectric grease around soldered wires before shrinking the shrink tubing over it. This prevents corrosion and further waterproofing.
Crimping I use heat shrink.
I've also used self soldering shrink butt connectors with no issues.
ASE Master technician here and I'll tell you what I was taught at the GM Training College in Atlanta.
*Soldering is not necessary and introduces problems that crimping doesn't.*
One thing anybody can see: Look at the wiring on any new car and you will not find any place where the manufacturer used solder.
As an ASE, GM,and Ford master technician for 25 years, if you don't solder a VSS sensor on a Ford it wont work! Most of the time a crimp joint is faster and cheaper and will work, but sensor wires not always will work. Ford will only approve a crimped AND soldered repair. Hell, even GM knows solder is better, how do you think we fix Airbag lights, cut the connector out and solder the wires together..... And that is a safety recall repair!
Its only because its cheaper than solder
crimping over soldering? hahaha
I can only imagine what the back of your cars head-unit looks like
There's a video on it you don't have to imagine 😚
Take it from an Engineer who worked for a company that makes terminals for the automotive industry. A solder joint is superior to a crimped terminal which is done by a machine. In testing, over time and in different environments the crimped joint will have a voltage drop, meaning the resistance begins to increase till failure occurs. A solder joint is literally good forever. Now you throw in people that crimp as a diy project and the quality of any of these crimps will be less then desirable. In an outdoor environment they will usually fail quickly.
When I took the Pace soldering school 25 years ago, they taught us to put a drop of mineral oil on the stranded wire at the point you want to block the solder flow. Do you didn't do that right.
Another point. The crimping tool to make the Mil Spec crimp on wire terminals cost about 750 USD when I worked for LearJet/Bombardier Aerospace that same 25 years ago.
Last point, before I quit farming and started working as mechanic, I had a bunch of farm equipment to maintain. Those crimp terminals we're virtually worthless in the wet, dirty conditions farm equipment had to live in. I struggled to keep things running because of those crimped terminals. What finally worked for me was soldering all connections. Corroded, used wires would have prevented soldering but I had the magic flux, called Sal-met. That stuff would solder anything. Then, I would apply two coats of liquid electrical tape to the joint. No problems anymore.
Try Marine Grade inline splices and such.
Not only do they have heat shrink built onto them they also have a sealer in them too.
If you solder correctly you won't have long stretches of 'hard' wire.
Soldering is best used for signal voltages to/from the computer. O2 sensor, etc where even a little resistance can cause problems.
Agreed. I also like heat shrink butt connectors as my general use splice connection. I'd definitely recommend getting ratcheting crimpers for insulated connectors though. It really doesn't take much to step up to the next level of wiring with open barrel crimps like you showed. People need to watch a few tutorial videos and buy a couple tools. When people with knowledge say crimping is better, they aren't talking about hardware store crimps with hard plastic open ended insulation and a $5 thin metal crimping tool.
The issues with both connection methods generally boil down to user error and incorrect equipment. Trying to solder with bad technique or the wrong tip will usually result in a bad joint. Trying to crimp without the enough knowledge or the correct crimping tool can also result in a bad connection. As a general rule, crimping is harder to mess up and easier to check for correct application. There is less overall room for error. That said, most people don't even do the bare minimum of research and tool investment for crimping.
Wiring really takes some learning above all else. I did add a dab of solder to some spade terminals recently after crimping 10 gauge wire into them. I only did it because I didn't have the exact right crimping tool and did not want the wire to be able to wiggle. The key is I still made sure to heat the wire and terminal to melt the solder rather than using the iron. I also only applied just enough solder to surround the wire in the crimp and did not allow any to wick past the strain relief. Very rarely will I solder anything automotive.
This may be old, but im sure people still view this. The crimp style wire nuts are good for car radio installation. They make fitting extra wire from an aftermarket head unit easier since it doesnt put everything in a straight line and not want to bend at the splice. I only use ratcheting crimpers or hydraulic for bigger wires/cables which make a big difference.
I've been soldering for probably since before you were born , sad to say that I've been screwing up for about 20 years now , I guess I really should have listened to my grandfather a little bit more than I did because what I thought was halfway decent work was absolutely a cold solder... and hence why I'm here scratching my head why my soldering gun and irons are not working properly at all on 6 and 4 gauge wire ... they are NOT hot enough at all to even to the job plus I'm not tinning it , I always just cleaned them with steel wool afterwards... so for 20 years I've been doing this all wrong , but I can contest there are some wires from the factory that are 100% soldered ? Especially ones that are for power distribution or solenoid, any type of fuse paneling under the hood to under the dash , even small block Chevy HEI ignition systems have soldered wires strait from the factory ... but there are the make your own plug wires that do NOT require soldering... but what I've found with some pre-2005 vehicles , but above 1985 with the EFI or TPI or just any type fuel injection system grounding is one of the most needed things with the wiring system besides it being wired correctly, and I've had to solder wired and grind down surfaces just to get a good ground, ( i was working on rusty junk) but there have been certain cases I've had to solder together wires to get 12 volts out of something or whatever that voltage was 6 volts ,24 volts ext... mixed opinions on my side , but I'm glad your very descriptive and you've opened my eyes on how I've been doing shotty work for 20 plus years! It's definitely made me think twice about how I do my electrical work and I absolutely appreciate this video!!
I have been involved in electronics for 40+ years and am quite familiar with proper soldering practices. My preference with wiring is to solder and dual wall heat shrink connections over crimping. OEM machine crimps found on vehicles are a far cry better than is achievable with consumer grade crimp hand tools unless you spend over $400 and get calibrated ones for correct crimp pressure and shape for a particular terminal type but that is beyond most DIYers and really not feasible for small jobs spending a fortune on tools. The points that Irwin makes are very valid in my opinion and really boil down to skill for a particular process and he is quite correct when stating that crimping is better than soldering in the case of those that can't solder well (although many just can't crimp well either). The soldered joint shown that was potentially "brittle" was over-soldered causing wicking (as accurately described). However a properly solder connection will not have the lengthy rigid area shown. Wires should not be left to float around either and should be tie wrapped together which reduces strain significantly for either solder or crimped connections, therefore the joint whether soldered or crimped should never fail from stress (only poor workmanship). I have seen crimped connection fail from movement, also moisture incursion creating oxidation against the crimped surfaces causing failure. A soldered joint will not be prone to a degraded connection from moisture, only surface discoloration. That being said any connection needs to be well insulated and the dual wall heatshrink properly applied is at the top of the list for reliability. All in all a good video but the point that should be taken from it is the process you use really depends on your skill level. As a side note, a reasonable quality plug in solder iron (Weller Professional Series) will have an internal temperature switch built into the pencil and maintain a stable temperature. I also agree the butane units are difficult to use as they really don't have the BTU's to maintain the tip temperature in most cases. But then again it depends on your skill level using the tool. One final note on soldering, if you want to do it reliably with good results use 63/37 rosin core solder, use lead free solder as it is difficult to use for the beginner and it's dull appearance when cool can be hard to distinguish from a cold solder joint. As far as solder thickness ? thinner will require more (measured by length) to be applied but easier to gauge the final outcome, while thicker solder will take less but be easier to over apply. Unless you are soldering battery cable lugs, 0.031 to 0.040 should be good for most people.
Thanks I needed this video. Even though I used the solder techniques you show for a great solder, a lot of the times on the vehicles it really isn’t great for me especially in hard to reach places and flexible places which is 90% of the car. I was just always under the impression that crimping was lazy, cheap and not weather proof. I’m definitely going to do that a lot more now, even got one of those expensive auto crimpers!
I am an individual who would have soldered my wires within a car simply because of my bad experience with the closed barrel crimps likely applied with a subpar low-quality crimping tool,
now I have used open barrel spade and ring terminals and those open barrel crimps applied using the correct tool is the best system I have come across, and to know a wire-to-wire open barrel crimp exists
(yes honestly I have not seen open barrel wire-to-wire crimps in my local electronics parts store or automotive parts store although I had not been looking)
my days soldering in cars can finally retire.
I am thankful for this i need this because i am faced with having to fix a wire connection on my truck, and i havent even started to study and learn soldering, so i need something i can do without making this job my first soldering project. So i am using this for my truck this time...then after i have learned and experianced soldering then i can choosenthe best for my future projects on and of the vehical