I forgot to address a certain argument in the video but so I’ll address it here. “But what about when Kaido compares what Luffy does in Gear 5 to a comic strip.” Like I mention near the end of the video, characters or people making comparisons don’t necessarily entail something being the same. As you could easily say Luffy could be mimicking a power SIMILAR to Toon Force and nothing would change. The difference between claiming something IS something and something LOOKS like something is one is proclaiming a certainty and one is making an observation that said thing bares a similarity. So really, it’s up to YOU to prove that Kaido is referring to Toon Force specifically, that Toon Force event exists in One Piece, or better yet why the existence of Toon Force is even a thing in fiction to begin with. Simply the preponderance of evidence is simply too much to even suggest that such a possibility is even likely. Especially when such evidence doesn’t exist. In all honesty, this position is entirely ignorant and is only made by people that didn’t think about the burden of proof they’re putting themselves under. Also, apologies that I hit my mic a few times during the video Lol
Agree 100% although I'll say, isn't Toon Force just reality warping in a way for comedic effect? I'd say it's definitely a thing in Fiction, it's not a specific ability but rather a name for a set of abilities commonly used in a specific way. At least that's how I see it
I mean, If you said he has reality warping, it would be a better argument. There will still be problems, but it would be better. Because Luffy has a zoan fruit, so Luffy's devil fruit awaking shouldn't be turning the entire area into rubber, it should give him the powers of Nikka. Which gives the statement of he can turn his imagination into reality more weight, but it will still be contentious if that is the case.
I'll be honest I thought that the whole town force excuse, I found it kinda of a stupid excuse, the first time I saw the Nika form i had in mind that luffy is using his stretching powers at its strongest, its basically plastic man but if DC comic actually cared about em lol
@@xxxpirlo What proves that was the result of Toon Force? If you’re going to claim the feat is the result of it, you have to prove that correlation and not just intuition
This premise is based on the interpretation of toon force, and then a *re-established* definition of toon force which can take focus away from the main argument. Toon forces standard definition is reality warping that bypasses a universes natural laws for comedic effect. Gear 5th currently grants luffy that definition Firstly people claim Luffy has "toon force" (albeit at a low tier) because Luffys awakening is reality manipulation, with a comedic emphasis, that breaks the rules of standard df awakening as it affect other humans too. Doffy can't turn other humans into strings or affect random onlookers indirectly. Even if he could, the atmosphere of comedy & laughter would not be the thematically present in this showing. 1. There's a constant eye popping gag, which in some cases, has characters visually seeing these anomalies (like characters commenting on Sanji and Nami's heart and berry eyes). However, in Gear 5th these gags are projected onto characters *as a result of a 3rd partys powers* , and seen as real visual anomalies by the in story characters. 2. Gear 4th flying is using rubbers elastic force to propel yourself, which isn't what's happening in Gear 5th. He's running on air which isn't possible, no matter how fast you run, unless you had the proper aerodynamic figure (which luffy's human body doesn't). The issue isn't discrediting gear 5's powers as a df awakening, instead it's that luffys awakening grants him techniques that not only break the natural rules of a df awakening, but of rubber itself. All the df powers you've listed do not break the rules of strings or even transmutation (as with hormone manipulation or even sugar turning beings into toys). Meanwhile luffys running on air. Creating lightning from nothing (luffys thor moves, and no there were no thunder clouds when he used it against don chinjao). And his python technique (the physics of elastic force doesn't operate like thay. Even with the concept of haki that shouldn't be possible. You can't accelerate and create more force when a propelled elastic force has already been applied). These are some examples of Luffys fruit breaking the in-universe laws. The main factor is the comedic element of this form. Df awakening in itself is low level reality warping but gear 5 puts an emphasis on comedy, laughter, and Joyboy. It's not just rubber but of a deity who's legend claims they moved with a rythym that brings smiles and laughter to everyone, a god of laughter and liberation. This where the toon force comes in, reality warping with an emphasis on comedic effect. The main argument stems from what qualifies as "comedic effect" to be considered toon force. Or in this videos case if toon force is even a valid concept. We have to look at the narrative of the story, luffys devil fruit, who joyboy is, and the writers structure and atmosphere that was intentionally given to gear 5th within the story One Piece. This was an interesting video that i enjoyed. But, to claim the other side of the argument is ignorant is a disservice to the debate as there's much room for disussion. I disagreed, but still this was a cool video on Gear 5th and the dissection of toon force itself.
Atrocious argument. Firstly your proposal to change the definition of Toon Force to fit your argument was bad. Secondly ad hominem attacking the people who view that as dishonest, by saying they cant accept new things, also bad. I sort of struggle to understand your definition any ways. And thirdly it took me about 13 minutes to even understand your definition, and upon hearing it I only got more confused. You wanted a definition that distinguished toon force from a funny gag moment, then decided toon force could only exist if it was objectively funny. Using your definition no one can have toon force, since nothing is objectively funny. But most confusingly, your definition perfectly described Luffy's power. We can use your definition to break down the Kaido fight, and see you had all the evidence for toon force pre-egg head. Paraphrasing: "Toon Force is a governing law that grants super natural strength or defense, that suits the comedic effect of the current circumstance." Luffy before awakening didn't have the power or defense to resist Kaido. And once luffy had toon force, he suddenly had the ability to comedically counter kaido. Suddenly hits that would've probably KO'd him, send him bouncing into a rubbery earth. Suddenly he isn't just resistant to lightning, but can now grab it and play with it before, before absorbing it into his punch and exploding with unseen power. Im gonna argue that Toon Force in a battle shonen doesn't need to only be applied to comedic moments. So the part of your argument that says it must suit the comedic effect of the current circumstance, really should say anything that suits the storys narrative circumstances. "It is not to be assumed to make them more powerful/ invincible in any situation." This is only the case in comedy shows, because it's sometimes funny to see the character hurt. In a battle shonen, if a character had toon force, it wouldn't make sense for them to get weaker if the situation wasn't funny. So for example with Kaido fight, luffy couldn't tank an attack from kaido pre awakening. After awakening we see him using comedy to sustain the damage he's taking. Then we even see him finally having the strength to block his attacks. He didn't get weaker on any given attacks, just bc he couldn't think of a way to do it funny. "It relies on the users sense of comedic effect. then they have to wait for or create the funny situation. and it has to be objectively funny." Actually few of your examples of toon force was a result of the user finding the humor, in fact some didnt have any users, since the comedy is always coming from their creator. As in if the author thinks it fits the situation, then the toon force happens. It's not something the characters control. In the context of One Piece, that would be all the not so funny visual gags that Oda finds funny and enjoys drawing. So when Oda tells us Luffy's power is turning imagination into reality, and we constantly see luffy beat the impossible odds, and he fights in a comedic way, how can it be called anything other than toon force? Your whole argument is just taking out of context interviews of people talking about their own works, and applying a twisted version of that to one piece. but wince you want to put your whole definition in the words of those creators, then notice toei called it toon force themselves.
This dude isn't going to like chapter 1111. Luffy literally pulls a bucket of paint and a helmet with 'Gomu' written on it out of nothing for a gag. Not a good sign for this video's longevity.
Lol you read two piece not one piece , Sum: Luffy g can give rubber properties at anything (maybe) he touches(that's called fruit awakening (register that) Toon force is beyond what luffy do lol,pls go watch a real cartoons 😐,luffy need to make contact with his target, and the popping eyes is common in op😐
@@African-AmericanGoose are you sure that u read the chapter 1111?😂. luffy out of no where pulled a baseball cap and a paint bucket and he painted a tree the tree and made a actual base ball bat .🤣
@@African-AmericanGooseLuffy is in the air. He pulled a batters helmet and bucket of paint out of nowhere for a comedic gag. Where did he get those from bud? Nothing you just put down explains that.
Using gags made for the audience to debunk Luffy when Kaido has a statement comparing his power to a comic and Luffy running on air is not the same as Sky walk
Way better. Luffy can only make objects out of rubber including his body parts and their apparent separation its limited to his imagination as well as he needs an object even if just light or air in order to create or "pull apart" "destroy" or "erase"
If he had toon force why didn’t he hurt Saturn because he could have found it funny that the damage to Saturn sticks? It’s literally a debate that can’t be debated unless we get more info.
@@chelseafootball397 If thats toon force then Luffy could have bypass it easily as its literally reality warping, what even is higher? Reality warping or immortality? Cuz if u can manipulate reality u can change theyre immortality, thus proving Luffy doesnt have toon force, its just that he can make things into rubber and reshape it, if thats his awakening then its against what Devil Fruit awakening does, Luffy's awakening is like logia he can affect things and turn it into rubber, Luffy's ability is like toon force but much more behave and controlled.
Here’s the thing and why I believe this video will continue to age like milk. You have no evidence of what Luffy ability is but I do. We know Luffy didn’t eat the rubber fruit, We know people have remarked his ability doesn’t work like rubber should We know Oda was inspired by Cartoons that would be described as toonforce So if it’s not Rubber and it’s not toonforce then what could his power be? Literally look no farther than the 3rd point I brought up about Oda. Luffy’s power is based on Cartoons that would be described as toonforce. Edit: thank you Oda for confirming toonforce in latest SBS
What could his powers be? His Devil Fruit, idk why new abilities mean it can’t be the result of his it and that it has to be something else. Just because I can walk like a duck and sound like one, doesn’t mean I am one. You need to prove a correlation, not cite a similarity and expect someone to agree with you because “it looks like it and I can’t imagine anything else”
@@surfboneso you can’t think of what his devil fruit actually is? Listen I understand, no one knows wtf Nika is but if we don’t ignore context clues then maybe we can make realistic theories like Luffy’s powers being based on how Cartoon characters operate. All I did was note evidence (not proof) that his fruit may be cartoon based. It’s not exactly a crazy concept by Oda to create.
@@surfboneAdobe rubber hose animation. The specific animation style that has to do with cartoon physics. All parts of gear 5th use rubber hose animation which is separate from their normal animation. Cartoon physics applies to rubber hose animation and by extension luffy since he’s directly animated in the rubber hose animation style. Old black and white cartoons. Adobe has an article on rubber hose animation.
@@surfbonegloves are usually used to cover the hands in this animation style and characters are long and lanky. The gloves part isn't a universal thing but it's common. His physics clearly changes. Your seeing it through one specific view. Read up on the article once you have time. Subsequent cartoons that follow like tom and Jerry have rubber hose animation styles in different ways as its animation has changed over the years. The thing is your definitely looking at it from the view like Oda did something new and unheard of that cannot be categorized or at least that's what your heavily implying. But Oda directly states he took it from another media. Cross culture inspiration isn't a bad thing at all.
Only the spoiler summaries have been released, not even the raw leaks have came out. Stop jumping to conclusions before we even see what really occurs.
@@LamezNation prove that Luffy’s powers are derived from Toon Force specifically. Like what actual proof is there besides your Headcanon intuition? Lol
@@surfbone still denying it is crazy he didn't grab it out his hair bra when he got scared his eyes,hat,and clothes and the chest scar got blown away carriage the cowardly dog style
@@moesavage1825 maybe I don’t think it’s Toon Force because I don’t think it’s a real concept and made a whole section in my video talking about it. That’s crazy
No it didn’t, no mention of “Toon Force” anywhere. Also, glad to hear you admit that everything prior to 1109 was debunked but this video 😊. Glad to know I did a good job Lol
@@ss3vegito999 Because unless you can substantiate that what Luffy does in this new chapter is contingent on him relying upon Toon Force to accomplish this feat. INSTEAD of him altering the properties of Kizaru and Saturn via his DF Awakening. Then you’re just spewing headcanon and are tryna cope
@@surfbone “how i view” is the key word. Your stating your research as fact without testing that’s peer review the research at best is flimsy considering your also trying to disprove a concept already established based on your own beliefs WITHOUT considering an alternative. I recommend you use the format for hypothesis statements moving forward considering a null statement, then supplying an alternate hypothesis instead of trying to debunk something to prove a point. Make one statement at a time. Supply evidence, to one and try to disprove it and supply an alternative take while testing if it applies. Then move on to the second statement that being “toon force is a nonexistent concept” as another statement altogether supplying proof to your statement with research it’s like basics in probability. You keep constantly state your hypothesis as right when you say it’s your view. If it’s an opinion why keep saying others are wrong? It’s the equivalent of saying red is the best color and shooting down other statements. It’s an opinion, if you really believe it is your view then accept the criticism instead of constantly saying you’re right. I saw that you went out of your way a few times to just not reply to others statements but if you were really that confident in your statement why not let the research speak for itself instead of constantly trying to defend it? Like you’re researching a topic, act like a researcher instead of someone who blindly goes with their own beliefs because it’s giving off that vibe hardcore. Statements like “your just helping the algorithm” is showing where your views lay as your not trying to make a real statement and are focused solely on the backlash. Where do your priorities lay?
@@sasankakalita5440Also if you read the raws, you would know he literally grabbed a tree and craved it with his teeth till it looked like a bat. So nice try at acting like it was even something similar to Toon Force. Rip Bozo, you should delete this comment 😂
@@surfbone stop crying😂 what about the scars that put back on and the cap he was wearing and the paint?? Don't tell me Luffy used your tears to paint his bat😂.
@@sasankakalita5440 Damn, I didn’t know allegedly spawning in paint a cap was a Toon Force specific ability 😱. Y’all just like to create whatever criteria you want Lol
Very clearly toon force you even get whacky sound effects from things Luffy is doing. Something you can’t even explain with rubber like Luffy putting his eyes back and making Kaido see birds and stars spinning around. Running on air leaving a smoke trail and shook his burnt body away. When he gets angry you see smoke coming out of his head. Oda sketch drawing already stated his limit is his imagination. Cartoon animation style is literally called Rubberhose and they even hired an animator who worked on with Warner Bros before.
Whack sounds don’t imply Toon Force, unless you wanna suggest Luffy can go Super Saiyan now because Toei is lazy and reuses sound effects. I don’t think you understand that a gag occurring doesn’t then imply it must be Toon Force. I already explained this Again, idk why that’s Toon Force specific only. Already went over this in the video. Also, Rubberhose animation is very specific in what it looks like, not all animation falls under it. Please do your research and think about things more critically next time
I agree Gag scene happening doesn’t confirm Toon Force. Like you pointed out Gag scene has happened in the past like Sanji turning to stone or Luffy drinking milk to regrow his teeth. However those are random occurrences and mostly exclusive to Ussop and Sanji. With Gear 5th they ain’t random GaG scenes since every time we see that form these things are expected and even serious characters are now influenced by it Luffy running on air is not the same since he can’t do it without that form and technique being different is important as others don’t use these methods and it’s even followed up by a “Vroom” sound effect which others method doesn’t have Furthermore done stuff we haven’t seen yet like making stars and birds appear Awakening for Paramecia Devil fruits shouldn’t be doing things from Logia and Zoan Blackbeard it’s implied his body and most recently his lineage are different so it’s wrong to compare him to Luffy reality breaking It’s just something that haven’t been explained.
Forgot the last point with SSJ that’s the animation studio and not canon to the manga so no he can’t transform to SSJ and it wasn’t the studio intent as you said they’re just lazy. The ones used in the manga however are canon like “Vroom” Can’t even say they’re lazy could just be a reference. They even made transitions copy Dragonball and hired the same animators as the one who did DBZ to replicate them
You dug a hole for yourself. Luffy is going to pull things out of thin air till the end of series and none of them has anything to do with rubber. This video is going to be proved wrong again and again. Toon force is breaking physics of the one piece world for gag. Luffy did it by pulling a paint can out of thin air, treating his wound scar as sticker and putting it on himself. None of this possible according to law of physics. How come you pulling a matter(paint can) out of thin air is valid according to law of physics? Luffy doesn't have some kind of pocket dimensions where he store his stuff nor he can convert energy. Matter always remains constant but he did increase it by pulling a can. It is not even matter manipulation anymore. Breaking laws for fight in anime is one thing but breaking laws for gag is toon force. Honestly I will visit this video just to enjoy the cope everytime luffy pull something like that in future.
@@ClassicalAlwayslolFallacies are related to contradictions and contradictions in symbolic thought are always false no matter what so there is no circumstance here.
@@surfbonesurbone you claimed a lot things without evidence like the comparing the gag moments to the layer eyes from cartoons that oda even confirmed it from cartoons and he even confirmed it from gear 5 then claim the sky walk thing that requires you to jump and not just leg swirl dash through the sky that oda confirmed that it from a cartoon then you made headcanon about red roc when there no evidence to apply that to his feet he couldn’t do none of these things before gear 5
@@firefistace5230 Inspirations don’t mean they’re the same bro. Oda doesn’t say anything about Luffy getting his powers from some outside source. So you’re the one with the headcanon coming up with stuff Oda didn’t say, not me. Also, Luffy can only produce fire from arms but not his legs. Because you arbitrarily decided that it’s not evidence he could do that with his other appendages besides his arms. And yet instead it’s proof of Toon Force. That’s super disingenuous. Whether or not he did it before Gear 5 or not doesn’t matter. You need to prove a correlation of his powers deriving from Toon Force. Not just you misinterpreting Ora’s words
So let me get this straight... luffy can do minor reality warping and spawn things into reality to make gags "spawn goggles/create haki paint to paint a fricking tree bat" but its not toon force 🤨 the creator also said that its inspiration was toons .. come on dude
The thing is when they said that Luffy’s new form is his imagination that’s technically toon force as a whole. I’m not trying to argue or try to make it seem like I have read every single chapter but what I have read that could basically outdo this whole entire video as a whole is Dr. Slump’s gag physics aka slapstick comic physics aka toon force. This way of doing things has been going on for years and the fact that you don’t talk about this more often in Japanese animation is very hypocritical because literally Astro boy, dorodoro, and many others as a list can literally go on as anime has been using this way of animation for years and it feels like Gear 5 has brought it back. Gag characters try to keep it alive in certain ways.
As a disclaimer, I'm not making this comment to debate the subject, as I don't believe Luffy has toonforce or anything similar (until proven, at least). I just wanna point out some flaws I saw in the argument section of the video. 16:29 I think there's a difference that you're not acknowledging. In the moments where the characters eyes pop out as a gag, the universe reacts to it as a gag (aka, nobody points out how weird that is) which is not what happens when G5 affects other people, as we see Kaido and Yamato comment on it. For the argument that the scene in question is not an example of gag based reality warping to work, it has to be implied that it's something that happened only for the sake of the gag and bears no real repercussions in the world. For example, the weird face Ussop makes to scare the girl with the Hobi Hobi (forgot her name) is a gag because if it was just a random face expression of Ussop (that looked normal) it would still make her scared shtless. The exaggerated face is for the comedic effect and the universe "doesn't notice" the misshape. 17:10 Kind of a nitpick, but Geppo is not a power of Haki. There's also the fact that Luffy kicks the air to fly in Gear 4th, while here he's running. And, also, he has never shown the ability to put the air on fire. Him being able to put his fist on fire is not a comparable thing, in the same way we can't say saitama can create explosions because he made rock explode by punching it. It is still a feat and there's no explanation as of today, so, at worst it's just an outlier. 22:32 This is an argument ive seen a lot of people make and it genuinely feels like a poor attempt at a rebuttal. It assumes multiple things, some of them are just ridiculous like "Luffy can't create glass, but he has enough control to the molecular level of his rubber to change its composition and elasticity to make rubber glass" which goes against Ockham's Razor. It is easier to prove that Luffy can just create glass than to prove he suddenly gets a master's degree at chemistry. This is ignoring the fact that texture is a thing. Meaning that the argument goes more around the lines of "He can't create glass, he just manipulates the molecular structure of rubber to make different textures and chemical compositions out of the rubbery material". Which again is a long way of saying "Luffy is now a genious at chemistry". Remember that we never seen or get any statements of Luffy doing things just because there's a chance of it working. He either knows how to do it or can't do it. And that's as far as my complaints go. Good video, as always 🤙
Actually. Ur afraid of Luffy being unstoppable from the way u talk. Constantly trying to bring in death battle logic into reality and trying to make sense of what doesn’t make sense.
@@TCSceptreluffy when highballed can only do at best minimal toon force and mainly relies on manipulating his environment and body to rubber Luffy hasn’t canonically shown toon force that is so strong it goes beyond solar system level so far So Luffy still loses to Goku and characters who go beyond solar system level Luffy might be continental/planetary if we really glaze him but yeah that is about it
you clearly don't know how haki works lmao. Armament Haki Creates A Spiritual Armor Around The User, you can't physically grab spiritual energy only HARNESS it (I thought I'd make it clear with caps since you have problems with definitions). Only Gear 5 Luffy in a result of his devil fruit can manipulate Haki into a physical form ex. Haki painted onto a tree that hits back the poison explosive spit for comedic relief, and by bending the reality of One Piece in a comedic way Oda achieves a satisfying and refreshing take on the very definition of Toon Force. I don't understand your point in even arguing what's 'toon force' is when we should all be grateful Oda has not ruined the series when some would of done so easily.
my point is eyes popping out are a ha ha funny effect whereas the haki paint is a funny affect. just a little English lesson for ya :) im positive we will continue to see more uses of toon force in both ways since it is an anime after all. Also you cant say One Piece doesn't have toon force if you genuinely believe it doesn't exist that's paradoxical and I would say dishonest in itself.
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 They lied, back then people wasn’t sure so they think it’s toon force, now that Oda explained the inspiration of gear 5 and what the abitlies are, it’s not toon force at all.
His powers support comedy and freedom of anyone he’s trying to save so the show is right to do so. So stop reacting in a funny way bcuz u wanna cancel the plot 😂😂😂😂
@@surfboneit’s hardcore cope considering your video is still under 20k even though it’s one of the top search results after 7 months. The algorithm isn’t working in your favor lol
@@surfboneclearly your doing something wrong if this video is doing much worse than your past ones 😂 11 months ago you got to 20k on a video but it seems this one isn’t getting traction. Your argument of it helping you is clearly not the case maybe those hidden dislikes play a role and that’s why your depending on comments to gain traction.
dude in eggehad luffy LITERALLY creates googles out ot thin fucking AIR just for it's gag about shooting himself at high speed against lucci becouse that ( the speed ) is the gag in that context. the googles are made from nothing and serve NO other purpose but the gag. it's toon force. deal with it. this entire video is huge super cringe cope
@@LorGhostly It’s almost like you didn’t watch my original video where I don’t even agree that Toon Force as a concept even exists. And that I basically worked under premise that it does for the sake of the argument to show just how unfounded and terrible it is to even make said argument. No amount of new chapters coming out are really gonna “debunk” the points I make in this video. I suggest rewatching it so you better understand my stance
cap, everyone who knows what toon force is knows he has it... the fact that he ran on air and made glasses out of nothing for the comedic effect proves it, but tbh we need more feats like this, luffy has "limited toon force"
@@vegetacultminorityhunter That's... Literally what toon force is. It's the ability to manipulate reality in a tangible way for the sole purpose of comedic effect. And emphasis on the word "Tangible". Gags happen in universe, so, a character getting their face deformed in an impossible manner are only exaggerated versions of what's actually happening, for comedic effect obviously. For example, Nami being able to hurt Luffy is there for comedic effect and it's an exaggerated version of the actual damage he sustained (emotional damage according to Oda). On the other hand, toon force actually and tangibly manipulates the universe. For example, bugs bunny drawing a hole in the wall and jumping inside it created a hole, and there's no de-escalation of that feat, you can't say the hole is up to interpretation. An easier way to understand it is: If the universe doesn't pay attention to it, then it's a gag. If the universe actively points at how that's not possible, then it's Toonforce.
@@ーテイル 1. Luffy running on air Isn't funny nor does anyone inverse think it's funny, same thing with Luffy creating glasses. 2. You should change the word "universe" to reality. Because he's just manipulating reality around him not the entire universe.
toon force is not for comedic and funny effects sense you cant say that bugs thought it was funny he was going to die in space jam legacy but the reason he didn't is because he said so or SpongeBob getting erased and coming back i know luffy doesn't have toon force but at least know what toon force is and where it gets its source from.
Unless egghead gets fully animated, I aint talking yet. This won't age well if Luffy really brought the paint bucket and paint brush out of nowhere while the cap is the hair transformed for real.
@@SquallTheBlade just saying “yo bro it looks like toon Force so it must be.” Is not an argument, if you’re going to assert a correlation you have to prove it. That’s how basic burden of proof works
Luffy is just getting started tho he still thinks his fruit is just the gum gum fruit let's see what he can do once he learns or masters the nature of his fruit
ok Luffy has too force , and where does that leave him? nowhere ! why ? because he dnt have the feats for back it up ,his feats is nothing in comparation to a real toon force user, no plot manipulation, no truth manipulation, no law of identity manipulation, no fate manipulation, no dimensionality manipulation high feat = high lvl of toon luffy only feat is just some mid high transmutation and maybe realty warping(lvl fodder)
11:16 This is something I definitely agree with. Even ignoring the whole debate on whether or not toon force is a thing, or whether or not Luffy has it, by the end of the day the One Piece fans would still have to showcase feats of what Luffy can even do with his toon force, even if we were to accept he has it, so at the end of the day this really doesn't change much when it comes to debates. For example, let's say we're debating Luffy vs Naruto, and let's say we all accept Naruto is Planet level in the debate (just for the sake of example, I'm not here to debate what level Naruto is actually at), and someone says "Luffy has toon force" as a counterargument: Okay, so what? Can he use that toon force to blow up a planet? Does he have feats of doing that with his toon force? If he doesn't, then he is still not beating Naruto, so by the end of the day this really doesn't affect the debate. I feel this whole discussion feels kind of pointless, personally. I honestly do not know why some people try to place toon force as if it was this unbeatable ability when that is clearly just a no limits fallacy.
I personally think he has toon force up to a certain point, like just a hint of toon force. Definitely not on the same level of toon force like Popeye, the Mask, or SpongeBob.
you clearly don't know how haki works lmao. Armament Haki Creates A Spiritual Armor Around The User, you can't physically grab spiritual energy only harness it. Only Gear 5 Luffy in a result of his devil fruit can manipulate Haki into a physical form ex. Haki painted onto a tree that hits back the poison explosive spit for comedic relief, and by bending the reality of One Piece in a comedic way Oda achieves a satisfying and refreshing take on the very definition of Toon Force. I don't understand your point in even arguing what's 'toon force' is when we should all be grateful Oda has not ruined the series when some would of done so easily.
@@surfbone Luffy does have Toon Force, Oda answered 10 more questions after the last SBS, the first question said this, “When using Gear 5th, Luffy takes out things like goggles or a baseball helmet out his hagoromo cloud scarf. Please tell us how that works” Oda said “It's the entrance to Nika’s fantasy” Oda basically confirmed Nika could do whatever he wanted if Luffy would stop using it as a rubber fruit and someone informed him of what it actually is
@@TrayLoren Despite that being one of the most vague answers Oda has ever given, I still don’t see how that’s specifically Toon Force and not just Luffy having a pocket dimension.
@@surfbone 7 months after, you’re still dense af. Why are you hellbent on pocket dimension when we see him morph his body or things into other thing. I never saw someone be in so much denial and really believe he’s the one in the right.
I would define toon force as: "a type of reality bending, which allows the user to bend reality or bypass natural laws in such a way, to make objects and environment behave more comedic or animated". So I would say Luffy has Toon Force, because he influence objects to move and bend in a certain way
@@czms922 the way I see it, reality bending abilities can make someone omnipotent, but not always. It also depends on how much and how potent the individual can bend reality. I am inspired by the SCP Foundation, where they catogerize reality benders in different tier levels. Some reality benders can only alter one object in near vicinity, others are omnipotent gods who can destroy universes. There also can be other limits like how much imagination the reality bender has or other mental limitations like how your subconscious affects you or how you can only bend that, what you can see
@@90bubbel60 he has in my definition a limited type of reality bending (he can transform matter into strings and manipulate it as he wants) but not toon force. Reality bending only becomes toon force if is bound by the purpose of comedy
Wow so in response to where Luffy is getting his goggles and helmet Oda said it’s the entrance to nikas fantasy? What’s vague about this? He’s responding to a reader wanting to know how Luffy is making shit out of nothing and Oda said it comes from gear 5. So these aren’t gags, it’s happening in the story
Ah yes, because specifically talking about the dumb arguments YOU people make means I hate Luffy. Flawless logic. Way to shift it to making it about Luffy when the video is targeted at YOU
@@kingtheking2322 you can say it looks like it. But that’s not evidence of it being it. And besides that, I don’t think Toon Force is a legit concept that empirically exists. And the only notations of it are based on intuition, vibe, and theory.
@@surfbone The mask as a series is a horror comic, in comic Big Head (the persona that a mask makes someone become) is a brutal serial killer and the tone of the comic is dark dark Big Head is a being with limitless power, so a lot of the violence he does is toon force, but it is not suppose to be funny Now comedy is in the eye of the beholder but as a concept the comic is serious in tone
@@alexmogrove8034 I legit didn’t see your comment till now. But yeah, you didn’t even answer my question. I asked for a specific chapter and page for where you think it’s evidence for Toon Force. Idc for your summarized version of the series and how you interpreted it. Give me the empirical evidence
He creates glasses and hats, gnaws a tree to make a baseball bat, and sticks fallen scars like stickers. Dude, don't comment on series you haven't read.
@@Johan-zf8kn For someone who’s accusing someone of the inability the read, you would understand this video came out before all those other feats besides the glasses. As well as my disclaimer at the beginning that it’s subject to change due to the series being ongoing. Next time, read before you comment
You can literally just say they’re new abilities that his Devil Fruit has just demonstrated and it changes nothing. There’s still much yet to be revealed about it so it makes sense if it feels like we’re still missing out on crucial details.
@@jennih261 I wouldn’t go that far, we still have only seen Gear 5 a handful of times and he barely beat Kaido. Don’t set your expectations so high that you think he’ll be Bugs Bunny level by the end. Just wait and see
@@surfboneshow don’t tell. It’s a basic concept in writing. A fictional storage space where one can pull items from. Look it up man. Or do you need a whole jjk explanation with equations to explain a power system?
@@alexmogrove8034 A Narrative concept that you’re using as an excuse to say it’s fine if you claim it’s there. But Idc for your headcanon of what you think is true, I want emperical evidence
@@surfbonea narrative concept isn’t an excuse. It’s an already established idea that’s used widely. Throughout media. Your if you can’t tell it’s not even my head cannon anymore it’s a widely accepted concept however seeing how your video is doing worse than your earlier videos it’s seems like your head cannon isn’t as valid as you claim it to be.
@@surfbonebtw there’s already a bunch of evidence if you look at the precise definition of what your trying to disprove. First you say that he doesn’t have tune force, second you say it doesn’t exist. There’s a clear classification for it that your going out your way to say isn’t real. And you acknowledged ALREADY in another comment that it’s specifically your opinion. You’re now saying that other ideas aren’t true? Your opinion isn’t anything other than an opinion not any more true than another statement. Instead you’re trying to argue that yours is true and we should also completely ignore an already established concept when you don’t seem to be a writer yourself how can you say the importance of a writing technique isn’t important when you don’t use it?
Oh and yh. Luffys powers are said to bring smile to pples faces. And derives power from the joy of others so yeah ur the one who’s actually not thinking. If he has toon force, he does. You just don’t want to give it to him cuz he’s powerful
Where is stated he “derives power from the joy of others”? And even then how does that change anything? Also dawg, Luffy’s not even that powerful with it. He can’t damage let alone kill the Gorosei, what does him having Toon Force gonna do to anyone who’s actually stronger than them?
@@surfbone so u accept he has Toonforce.. ur just scared it might make him stronger than ur best characters rii? 🌚 Just accept it bro. Where’d all these insecurities come from?? You’ve become a joke to the internet 😂 But I understand u just want boosted videos and arguments lol. I know you bro
@@omokoladeowoeye2939 do you understand what a Steel Man is dawg? I’m saying even if you’re right, it means nothing. Luffy doesn’t become Bugs Bunny all of a sudden. You need should probably learn how to read next tiem
21:23 To add to the creation of constructs rebuttal, Luffy is not the only one who has been shown capable of transmuting matter from one thing to another (because that's essentially what he does)... Luffy can take the clouds he creates while in Gear 5, and basically turn them into something different (to what extent, is to be determined). If you aren't a stranger to devil fruits in One Piece, this shouldn't be a surprise to you because we have seen similar applications of devil fruit abilities specific to the properties of said Devil Fruit, especially the paramecia type which Luffy's devil has a lot in common with, so much so to the point where, for close to 800 years, it had been classified as one. Doflamingo: He creates a full clone of himself with clothes a glasses, we also see how his awakening works. Doffy turns everything around him that isn't human or animal into strings, so things like houses and everything inside them, tv sets, furniture, glass, clothes, concrete blocks, metals etc... He literally turns other matter into strings and it has a wide area of effect and the destruction caused is permanent. Luffy turns matter into rubber *temporarily as the effect is limited by continuous physical contact as whatever he turns into rubber regains its original state once it's let go. One can change the entire constitution of matter into strings, whereas the other can only make matter *act as if rubber. Doffy's devil fruit has far better matter transmutation, the only reason why Luffy's is stated to only be limited by the imagination is because it can also affect humans and animals on top of other things, evidenced by him turning Kaido into rubber at some points during their fight. Kidd can create any tech out of scraps of metal. On higher ends, he can even create mechs that fly without any fuel or boosters (which breaks physics if you choose to ignore the fact that he controls magnetic fields), create boxes that can trap electricity/lightning and even railguns... So Luffy *rubberizes clouds to create a pair of goggles, cool... Kidd *magnetizes scraps to create a pair of floating skulls, cool... Luffy rubberized Kaido mid fight, cool. Kidd magnetized Big Mom, cool. So far, all I'm seeing is Luffy using his rubber based abilities to it's peak with his awakening, just like Doffy and Kidd 🤷♂️. The only difference being, "bUt He'S gOoFy🤪" Kanjuro creates sentient beings out of paint, not just goggles or railguns or spears, sentient beings... He's taking paint, and transforming it into something that moves and functions on its own. Vice Admiral Tsuru can turn anything she touches into clothing and literally hang them up to dry, Luffy can turn people rubber and skip rope with them? oh cool...makes sense. I can keep going on, but if at this point you still need me to keep on going on pointing out just how consistent Gear 5 is with the devil fruit power system, then you're already lost because you've read 1000+ chapters and understood nothing, I'm sorry. The point of all this was to really hammer home that, Luffy's awakening while very unique (as it shares the same properties with all other known awakening types), is still very much CONSISTENT with the established Devil Fruit power system and how Awakening works, even more so because his devil fruit is a Mythical type, hence why it isn't limited to Doffy's and Katakuri's AOE type awakening while having elements similar to it, or why it is similar to Kidd's and Law's awakenings in the sense that they can directly affect their opponent's physiology or Chopper's awakening type where he becomes gigantic... It's no different from Kaido being a Mythical Dragon and thus, can manipulate fire, wind, clouds, lightning, while still having were-animal features like claws, fangs, horns, scales and a tail... All this means is that, whatever this Nika was as a Mythical concept of old, he/she/it could do the things Luffy can in the same way Kaido can do almost everything an Azure dragon in myths can do. Nika is not a myth we know of irl like the dragon is, it's a myth that Oda has created for his own fictional lore so we simply have to assume that whatever it was, Luffy's abilities reflect Nika's abilities in Myth. That fact by itself already debunks the notion of toonforce, as devil fruits are based on pre-existing concepts and the name given was Nika, not Toon Force. It still follows the rules of the world, for instance, If Gear 5 Luffy were to fall into the sea, he would drown... he's not turning water into rubber even if it's "funny" or "comedic", toonforce you say? If Gear 5 Luffy were to be cut by a haki attack above his own defensive armament haki, he would bleed and take damage and worse if he was beheaded, he ain't taking his head and putting it back on like Tom and Jerry, toonforce where? The fact that Gear 5th drains his life energy proves that there are rules in place for his power and a clear source, being his heartbeat. The fact that he can't do all these things in his base proves that "A set condition" needs to be met in order for him to do whatever he does in Gear 5th, and that condition as stated by Kaido is for his body to catch up to his mind, aka devil fruit awakening. Last I checked, awakening wasn't "comedic" and neither is rapid heartbeat, where's the toonforce? It's just a transformation. What now? Are we going to say Ichigo has toon force because bro can change the size of his sword, his whole drip and create a damn mask out of nowhere? Oh right, he isn't funny when doing it so it doesn't count. Luffy has always been a "goofy" character who likes to be "free", so it stands to reason that if such a character awakened their devil fruit that allowed them to be "the freest they've ever been" with their heart beating like a drum to that exhilaration, then obviously he is going to do whatever he wants in such a state, hence his "goofy" fighting style. The gags, sound effects and artstyle change has already been addressed by Surfbone so I won't add to that... I only made this comment because I felt he didn't quite go into detail when it came to the creation of constructs and matter manipulation part.
@@roxas13keyblade65 He would need to be touching it, and touching water zaps all a devil fruit user's energy. If it is water in like a cup or even barrel, then sure, but sea water or any large water body, no. He simply can't move. Big Mom couldn't turn the volcano into her homie despite the fact that she doesn't even need to grab anything to share her soul with it, but she simply couldn't even act. The moment Gear 5 Luffy falls into the sea, his heartbeat would return to normal forcefully, returning him to base in a fatigued state. Kuzan can freeze water because his body itself is ice so unless he actively turns down the cold, anything his body touches, freezes. It doesn't work that way for Luffy. But I could see Oda pulling something like that because "it's up to Luffy's imagination", so I'm not dying on that hill.
To say he falls into the water then yes he would turn back to normal but as Oda sensei has mentioned, all water afflicts any user and it has to be above their knees for them to feel week and lose their abilities. So... lez say he grabs the water as long as he is not directly in the water... possibly to do or is it still too far of a stretch?@@revenantronin8377
@@revenantronin8377 not necessarily true. oven put his hand into the ocean and was able to boil it. prometheus (a fire homie) was able to fully submerge himself into the ocean to save big mom. so sea water doesnt just turn off devil fruit abilites. also luffy wasnt touching anyone other than kaido in the fight but was able to make everyone's eyes pop out
It did, Luffy doesn't have toon force at all. The manga already explained how he able to do those things and Oda himself explain the power and the inspiration of luffy being goofy like a cartoon character. Oda just wanted gear 5 luffy to have similar humor to tom and jerry whenevr they fight and act while using his rubber awaken abilties, his abilties are only rubber and nothing more since that was the point of the nika fruit granted the user the properties of rubber while the true abiltiies is the user imagination.
Even if luffy does have toon force if you compare him to characters like bugs bunny, Popeye,the mask,gumball,uncle granpa, SpongeBob,mickey mouse hes more on the weaker side (if he has toon force)
Let’s just call it what it is. The push for Toon Force Luffy is because for years they had to listen to people say Ichigo or Naruto or all these others characters could beat Luffy.
It’s his Devil Fruit Awakening, and also (not towards you) but tough shit. Every fandom stans their characters just as much as the other and the One Piece fandom is no different. I’m not gonna just “let them have this one” because then we’re not arguing in good faith. Especially when arguing this way, in my opinion, disrupts the integrity the series has. All for the sake of winning Twitter arguments that supposedly bring disrespect to One Piece because it can’t beat Naruto or Bleach. Which like I said, every fandom is guilty of this, and I don’t think the OP fandom deserves any special treatment or coddling. Especially when I think they’re far worse than either of the three.
damn tuff bro is on denial on the comment section we op fan been saying since day 1 first it was kizaru being ftl next luffy toon force lmao yall just cant take no W
I'm going to make a goofy sound effect while my eyes buldge out of my eye sockets and I say "AWOOGA" as I look at a Minecraft villager and use misconception to gain toon force.
I’d say luffy has it, but it’s a very limited version of it due to how stupid he is and the rules of his fruit correlating to his lifespan and stamina.
@@surfbone You’re right, it’s not. I’m just making a statement. Not gonna argue with you when there’s clear proof of you being wrong and I’ve seen you lose other debates with people in the comments. Once you can show me a real life example or an example in the one piece world pre g5 of rubber being turned into a metallic pair of goggles with usable glass lens, or rubber being turned into a bucket, paintbrush and literal paint, or rubber pieces being able to attach back to together after being blown apart (he literally reattached his scar to his body), or rubber giving the ability to run in the air in a cartoony way and being able to create enough friction to cause a fire to someone who’s not using or has ever used sky walk, or rubber giving the ability to grab lightning-something that can not be grabbed by rubber, or rubber giving the ability to turn someone into a literal pizza pie after being crushed, THEN, you can claim that there’s no toon force. Because as far as I’ve seen, I’ve seen cartoon characters do the things Luffy has done so far, and I’ve never seen any properties of rubber that explains the feats I listed above. Also, this is the same Luffy who doesn’t even know the full extent of his powers. He still thinks it’s the gum gum fruit. Once he realizes the extent of his power (imagination), who knows what he’ll do then. But, if it makes you feel better, continue to stand with your opinion. I am not arguing with you. ✌🏾
Imo even tho luffy has toon force as you said in the video not all magic users can do the same thing so even tho he has it hasn't shown to be on a level like bugs bunny,popeye.etc.So it doesn't mean he can do anything and even then we still scale people like popeye and bugs bunny so i don't see why it's different for luffy according to his meat riders despite him having a weaker manipulation of the force.
Tune for this, literally manipulating reality. That’s not what Luffy is doing… What you’re saying is true with the whole entire rubber deal, and him changing nature into rubber than all the awakening characters have to force because they’re changing the battleground into their fruits like come on dude
Bro missed the whole point💀. He can give other things the properties of rubber. That's it. That's not toon force. That's rubberization. Haki + rubberization = gear 5
@@monke4163 aaah, I see where the misunderstanding is. Tiny grammar issue, you should've said 'Even *if* luffy *had* toon force.' But no stress, I get what you were tryna say now👍
I honestly think even if i was charitable and gave him toonforce, the toonforce is so low lol. Luffy fanboys are coping because they want his boy to be able to fight in more cross verse. Luffy is one of my favorite characters but i wouldn't have wanked him like others because i like his struggles in the story. Actually luffy doesn't mind losing
Personally, i like to refer to luffy's ability as toonforce with regards to the definition being "a comedic use of ones natural abilities to perform feats which are normally either impossible or unnatural". It is worth noting that i am probably entirely wrong, as the idea of toonforce, as you have stated, is entirely subjective as its activation requires comedic purposes, which differ for everyone. This idea can be extended to your example of luffy running on air to be entirely possible by him, so even if toonforce is a thing that exists, it was not a product of it. While it is worth noting that, yes, luffy can run on air without the aid of gear 5, it isnt a product of such methods, or the idea that a character can stay still midair given that the situation requires it, such as just before the final clash between luffy and kiado, where luffy stays afloat without the aid of my own definition of toonforce, it is also worth stating that this isnt a case of the use of toonforce, but representative of its use in the form, hence an exaggerated startup and follow through, to reprisent his normally unnaturally cartoonish properties. By extension, it can be said that when luffy's or anyone elses eyes pop out in response to luffy, or luffy to an opponent, it is not a product of toonforce, but its stylization is a representation of luffy's comedic nature specifically, as opposed to the others being ussop and sanji whom are simply used as a comedic gag. (Note: it could also be that this specific style of such a gag is simply these characters styles of comedic shock, and not solid proof that it is related to luffy at all). Regardless, i believe that other cases are far more representative of this definition of such an ability, such as a sudden change in style of animation for characters interacting with luffy in gear 5. This new style has never been seen, and reveals more opportunities in a battle, such as stunning kiado to perform a combo. Either that or "toonforce" is simply what is easiest to give others an idea of luffy's new abilities, and not actually what his awakening is able to do.
Dinosaurs lived millions of years before humans, so no dragons weren't an exaggeration of Dinosaurs but maybe an exaggeration of something like a monitor lizard
Saying luffy has toon force is like saying certain jojos characters like Joseph have toon force because they can just kind of pull stuff out of nowhere
Luffy can probably spawn out rubber out of thin air, just like how he made some star and things on Kaido's head, it cant be toon force as it would beat Gorosei immidietly cuz it would negate theyre immortality, so its probably that he can not just turn things to rubber but also make rubber
Actually yea I am gonna double down and say Majin Buu has toon force. It's outright stated he utilizes magic more so than Ki. Ergo his source of power is actually different than how 'normal beings' gain power.
But if his powers come from magic, then it’s not Toon Force dude. Magic is another power system that exists within Dragon Ball and Majin Buu isn’t the only user of it. So no, that doesn’t work Lol Your attempt at biting the bullet just proves you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. Or understand the ramifications of your own arguments before you make them
@surfbone I'm drawing upon what the artists draw upon. Majin Buu is heavily baised of a Genie. The container, and dijin refrences are apparent. Look at Disney's Alladin and tell me that Genie doesn't have toon force. Okay that's not pertinent to Luffy. His powers are just an amalgamation of his rubber abilities and haki. Except their not. If anything it's the opposide. The hitto hitto no me grants it's user *freedom* personified. Luffy isn't breaking the laws of physics because he's a rubber person. As you stated if he was merely doing that he'd be beholden to physics. Rather he is warping his body and surroundings to fit his desires. Now if you don't wanna call it *toon force* that's fine. But to say Oda's intent wasn't to replicate the effect of western cartoons. But okay still not buying it. Okay let's take Kaido. Kaido was built up as a force that Meer force could not overcome. Inspite of how much Luffy trained with Haki he wasn't even putting a dent in him. Kaido the immovable object. Luffy once he became Gear 5th was able to bypass Kaido's natural immunity. The story makes a point to show that what Luffy is doing isn't just getting stronger but shaping the world to his will to an extent. Luffy the irresistible force. It seems in your video your also doubting the existence of toon force as a concept over all. Like even asking if Tom and Jerry are using it. But that's a silly notion. The people in the 1920's had no notion of Shonen style combat. So the toon force is, you your point, modern audiences attempting to rationalize these discrepancies. But even if that's the case it's clear that Oda did model many of Gear 5 after these *loony* traits in early western animation would be disingenuous. So if you have a hesitancy to call it toon force by all means call it something else it just happens to be a useful term. But I can argue for all those older cartoons their was nothing out of the ordinary because in Tom and Jerry everyone acts like a cartoon ergo they dona actually have powers it's just the world is more silly. However with Gear 5 the implicit statement is that even within the world the hitto hitto no MI is an aberration.
@@KrazyStargazer that first point is just terrible. Aladdin's Genie having toon force doesn't equal every single Djinn or Djinn-inspired character has it (and I should know, I have one as a main character 💀)
@primedarkking10 I was more so using it as an example. Case in point does the Genie from Alladin exhibit *toon force* powers? He exhibits powers that Resemble American cartoons. Ergo the nomenclature is *toon force* not because it is a actual concept but because it shares similarities with other concepts. I compare the two Genies to illustrate how they use magic on their surroundings.
First, I gotta commend you on the production quality of the video, Top notch. However, after watching the entire thing, I can’t help but feel like you’ve argued basically nothing. Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting, but your definition of toon force is basically the same as the “official” definition you showed earlier, in that it’s the ability of cartoon characters to break the laws of reality for the sake of comedy, and only for the sake of comedy. In this aspect, gear 5 almost seamlessly sits the definition: Luffy cannot break reality to do damage to his opponent, but he can break reality to make a funny joke (the goggles, the stars, etc.). Even if you don’t call it toon force, the result is the same. You kept reiterating that one must have evidence to make a claim, otherwise it should be taken at face value, but then you call out everyone’s eyes bugging out on Onigashima, the goggles, the stars, and the air running and give them convoluted explanations that have no evidence to back them up. Now, I don’t want to be that guy that points and laughs without actually making a point, so I’ll break down each of those claims. First, the goggles and stars, since they are the most egregious examples. Yes, rubber glass does exist, but we have no evidence that Luffy can change the properties of his rubber like logia users can. The most obvious explanation in this case is “Luffy did it because gear 5 is more cartoony and making goggles is a funny gag”. When compared with the glass rubber explanation, while that is technically not impossible, it is far and away the more unintuitive option. One person in the comments compared it to Doflamingo making a perfect string clone (which did include glasses), and this is by far a more compelling piece of evidence. Still, Doflamingo’s clone was specifically stated to be made of string, and nothing has been stated about Luffy’s goggles. It has been strongly implied by the story to be cartoon physics, however, and I will get back to this more later. The same of course applies to the stars, which have no president at all, and are clearly being used to show the effects of cartoon physics. Again, I will go back to this later. Next, the eyeball pop. You mentioned how eyes bulging out of their sockets is nothing new to One Piece, and I wholeheartedly agree. However, if you look past the concept and examine the execution, you’ll find that the eyeball popping in Wano is presented extremely differently than any other instance of the gag. Prior to gear 5, eye gags consisted of two types: the eye bulge and the separated eye pop out. In the first, the eye simply stretches out of the head without leaving its socket (Eneru, Perona, etc.), while in the second, the eye completely separates from the head, leaving a blank socket behind (falling from Skypeia). For gear 5, however, the eyes pop out of their sockets and multiply, each iteration being further from the head. This is so different from any other eye gag in the series that the most obvious interpretation is that the author is making a statement: namely, that this is an effect of gear 5. That Luffy is the one most often affected by this gag while in gear 5 is more evidence of this point. To counter the obvious, as you’ve stated, you must have supportive evidence, and you don’t really present any; instead, your argument ignores the obvious execution differences in favor of concept comparison. The same applies to Luffy’s air run. You compare it to moon walk and gear 4 flying, but that is like saying Luffy can fly because Pell does. This is another prime example of arguing the concept while ignoring the execution. Yes, gear 5, gear 4, moon walk, and Pell can all fly, but they each do so in different ways. Just because many people can fly in One Piece doesn’t mean that Luffy’s air run suddenly makes sense. Gear 4 uses propulsion to push agains the air rabidly, moon walk strikes the air so fast it kicks off it, and, well, I don’s really need to explain Pell. In this context, what does gear 5 do? It certainly isn’t moon walk, since that can only be done by quick, downward strikes; it isn’t gear 4, because his legs aren’t sucking into themselves for propulsion; and I hope to heaven it isn’t Pell because Luffy isn’t a bird. That only leaves the obvious explanation of “that’s how cartoon characters behave.” Of course, the entire argument can be simplified by actually looking at the presentation. The spinning leg wheel is a cartoon staple gag, everyone recognizes it as such. On the same topic, cartoon characters running so fast they light stuff on fire is also a staple gag, although this is also something Luffy has been shown to do before (Punk Hazard), so it’s not necessarily a gear 5 thing. The stars and eye pops are also common cartoon gags, and, to a lesser extent, so is the goggles thing (pulling something out of thin air to suite the aesthetic of a gag). Everything in the story is pointing to how cartoony gear 5 is, and even Kaido recognizes this. To try to put a rational explanation to these effects would require, as you keep saying, compelling evidence; otherwise, it’s just cartoon physics. As for the reason why gear 5 is cartoony specifically, there is no definitive answer, but the easiest explanation is that Oda just wanted to draw is that way (as he has stated before in and SBS regarding Luffy being rubber). At the end of the day, I just don’t understand your point. You say that people, desperate for explanations, use toon force as a (for lack of a better term on my part) coping definition, and that it is more obviously explained by in-universe logic. This argument, however, is backwards! People are not saying Luffy has toon force to explain gear 5; they are saying it because it is presented as obvious by the story. Your explanations, on the other hand, bend in-universe logic, compare concepts while ignore obvious differences, and completely disregard the tone of the story. Could your ideas turn out to be true? Possibly. Would they be better than “cartoon physics”? Maybe, depending on the person. But are they the obvious explanation? Heck no, and they are not supported by compelling evidence either. I will end this terribly long essay by saying that I am not saying all of Luffy’s powers are toon force-absolutely not. Only the gag moments that are not physically explainable without making logical stretches and assumptions are facilitated by cartoon physics. And wouldn’t you know, but that happens to be the definition of toon force,
What are you talking about? This changes nothing about where either series scales by saying Toon Force doesn’t exist. Please actually listen to what my arguments are and what they’re proposing. Instead of assuming that because I’m saying something isn’t as impressive as people make it out to be, doesn’t mean I’m bashing the series. In fact, I’m bashing the people coming to these dumb conclusions, which if you agree with Toon Force that includes you.
@@surfbone I not saying that they're invincible but Toon Force isn't just reality warping but limited. It's basically Cartoon Physics that user has to allow them to interact with the world around them however they see fit, usually in a comedic fashion. Most users of Toon Force users such as Disney and Looney Tune Characters can re-write the strict laws of physics in their universe to their convenience and is allowed to overwrite the laws with more lenient and much more absurd physics with much more ridiculous ones in service of hilarity. Main powers include 4th wall awareness, elasticity and body control, hammerspace, and, most important of all, light reality warping. Also, VS Battles Wiki isn't always accurate, so you have to careful when looking at their research and have to look at other sources for it. I'm not trying to fight, but I'm just saying don't believe everything that VS Battle Wiki tells you.
@@JLMaster-le4eh Again, you didn’t listen to what my arguments were, I argue that Toon Force doesn’t exist and I’ve yet to see any empirical evidence of it anywhere. It’s simply just a fan made concept that’s based on intuitive evidence.
@@surfbone That's your opinion and that's fine, but not everyone is going to agree with you on what they say and certainly not. Yes, I do believe that Gag Characters and Toon Force users aren't invincible, but they do have this ability that many people actually agree with this being a actual power. Heck, just look up Superpower Wiki and see for yourself or even watch DEATH BATTLE's Deadpool vs The Mask, Saitama vs Popeye, and Spongebob vs Super Friends Aquaman, and if you still don't believe it, then that's fine but don't act like you know everything about fiction, alright buddy. Edit: I'll admit that Gear 5 not having Toon Force does actually make sense, but even if he does, it's more likely to be Gag Manga Toon Force which is similar Toon Force but is more suited for Gag Characters, which Luffy is not.
@@surfbonetoon force is also called cartoon physics. If cartoon physics doesn't exist what do you call rubber hose animation? It's based off of the physics of the cartoon. This is the most basic way I can put it.
@@nar1768 going back into gear 5 doesn't mean he was unfatiguing himself, that fact that he got fatigued at all shows that he has limits while in the form
I know what power of gear 5 Luffy have He has rubber transmutation he can transform matter and objects including living beings into rubber And let me explain the difference between toon Force and rubber transmutation . Rubber transmutation the user can transform matter and objects including living beings into rubber . Toon Force the user possess the ability to impose the laws and physics of cartoons in to reality essentially allowing them to warp the world around them to however see fit usually in a comedic way The most common powers of toon Force is fourth wall awareness impossible body control Hammer space and creating objects out of nowhere Examples of toon Force users OG Mickey mouse characters OG Looney tunes Scooby-Doo of 1969 Popeye the sailor Man essentially any characters in old cartoons if Luffy can't display any of these abilities then he don't have toon Force
Wrong Wrong!!! It's literally the definition of Toon but with rubber .Its called Rubberhose animation and its literally in every cartoon like tom and cherry ,popaya..and luffy rubber doesn't act like real rubber but it applies the basic principles of not l
@@Anticap17 Not sure if this was meant to be taken seriously but rubber hose animation and Toon Force aren’t the same thing. If that were the case Spinel from Steven Universe would have toon force. Also Kaido noted that even in the snakeman form Luffy wasn’t moving the same way normal rubber does (this was shown in the video btw 👀).
I forgot to address a certain argument in the video but so I’ll address it here.
“But what about when Kaido compares what Luffy does in Gear 5 to a comic strip.”
Like I mention near the end of the video, characters or people making comparisons don’t necessarily entail something being the same. As you could easily say Luffy could be mimicking a power SIMILAR to Toon Force and nothing would change. The difference between claiming something IS something and something LOOKS like something is one is proclaiming a certainty and one is making an observation that said thing bares a similarity. So really, it’s up to YOU to prove that Kaido is referring to Toon Force specifically, that Toon Force event exists in One Piece, or better yet why the existence of Toon Force is even a thing in fiction to begin with. Simply the preponderance of evidence is simply too much to even suggest that such a possibility is even likely. Especially when such evidence doesn’t exist. In all honesty, this position is entirely ignorant and is only made by people that didn’t think about the burden of proof they’re putting themselves under.
Also, apologies that I hit my mic a few times during the video Lol
Agree 100% although I'll say, isn't Toon Force just reality warping in a way for comedic effect? I'd say it's definitely a thing in Fiction, it's not a specific ability but rather a name for a set of abilities commonly used in a specific way. At least that's how I see it
@@TheSuperGoober That's what I thought, too.
I mean, If you said he has reality warping, it would be a better argument. There will still be problems, but it would be better. Because Luffy has a zoan fruit, so Luffy's devil fruit awaking shouldn't be turning the entire area into rubber, it should give him the powers of Nikka. Which gives the statement of he can turn his imagination into reality more weight, but it will still be contentious if that is the case.
I'll be honest I thought that the whole town force excuse, I found it kinda of a stupid excuse, the first time I saw the Nika form i had in mind that luffy is using his stretching powers at its strongest, its basically plastic man but if DC comic actually cared about em lol
No please don't use anime visuals or sorry excuse of star wars that has bad plot
You MIGHT have to update this
He's never going to, too stubborn.
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467he’s a better debater than you lol
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467I mean he’s right
@@ClassicalAlwayslolYou mean the same debater who blocked me on X and conceded to me on one of his earlier videos? Yes, he's a better debater than me.
"fiction doesnt have to be the truth, it only has to makes sense" thats fiction, and toon force is much more complicated than that
Have you seen chapter 1111?
I am not reading 1111 chapters. Can the pacing get any slower?
annnnddddd luffy literally just painted himself a bat in the manga making this entire video wrong 😭😭😭
Yeah, you didn’t watch the video bud Lol. The bat and a bucket of paint changes nothing Lol
@@surfbone What about his scars going flying from his body and he reattaching them as if they were stickers?
@@xxxpirlo What proves that was the result of Toon Force? If you’re going to claim the feat is the result of it, you have to prove that correlation and not just intuition
@@surfbone It's more difficult to prove it's not...
@@surfbone copium 🤣🤣🤣
This premise is based on the interpretation of toon force, and then a *re-established* definition of toon force which can take focus away from the main argument. Toon forces standard definition is reality warping that bypasses a universes natural laws for comedic effect.
Gear 5th currently grants luffy that definition
Firstly people claim Luffy has "toon force" (albeit at a low tier) because Luffys awakening is reality manipulation, with a comedic emphasis, that breaks the rules of standard df awakening as it affect other humans too. Doffy can't turn other humans into strings or affect random onlookers indirectly. Even if he could, the atmosphere of comedy & laughter would not be the thematically present in this showing.
1. There's a constant eye popping gag, which in some cases, has characters visually seeing these anomalies (like characters commenting on Sanji and Nami's heart and berry eyes). However, in Gear 5th these gags are projected onto characters *as a result of a 3rd partys powers* , and seen as real visual anomalies by the in story characters.
2. Gear 4th flying is using rubbers elastic force to propel yourself, which isn't what's happening in Gear 5th. He's running on air which isn't possible, no matter how fast you run, unless you had the proper aerodynamic figure (which luffy's human body doesn't).
The issue isn't discrediting gear 5's powers as a df awakening, instead it's that luffys awakening grants him techniques that not only break the natural rules of a df awakening, but of rubber itself. All the df powers you've listed do not break the rules of strings or even transmutation (as with hormone manipulation or even sugar turning beings into toys). Meanwhile luffys running on air. Creating lightning from nothing (luffys thor moves, and no there were no thunder clouds when he used it against don chinjao). And his python technique (the physics of elastic force doesn't operate like thay. Even with the concept of haki that shouldn't be possible. You can't accelerate and create more force when a propelled elastic force has already been applied). These are some examples of Luffys fruit breaking the in-universe laws.
The main factor is the comedic element of this form. Df awakening in itself is low level reality warping but gear 5 puts an emphasis on comedy, laughter, and Joyboy. It's not just rubber but of a deity who's legend claims they moved with a rythym that brings smiles and laughter to everyone, a god of laughter and liberation. This where the toon force comes in, reality warping with an emphasis on comedic effect. The main argument stems from what qualifies as "comedic effect" to be considered toon force. Or in this videos case if toon force is even a valid concept.
We have to look at the narrative of the story, luffys devil fruit, who joyboy is, and the writers structure and atmosphere that was intentionally given to gear 5th within the story One Piece.
This was an interesting video that i enjoyed. But, to claim the other side of the argument is ignorant is a disservice to the debate as there's much room for disussion. I disagreed, but still this was a cool video on Gear 5th and the dissection of toon force itself.
Cooked him I see why he didnt reply
I mean have you seen the shit he did in the most recent chapter?
Might have to update this one
Ong bro this video aged badly, worse than milk
Every one piece shared the same braincell
Atrocious argument. Firstly your proposal to change the definition of Toon Force to fit your argument was bad. Secondly ad hominem attacking the people who view that as dishonest, by saying they cant accept new things, also bad. I sort of struggle to understand your definition any ways. And thirdly it took me about 13 minutes to even understand your definition, and upon hearing it I only got more confused.
You wanted a definition that distinguished toon force from a funny gag moment, then decided toon force could only exist if it was objectively funny. Using your definition no one can have toon force, since nothing is objectively funny. But most confusingly, your definition perfectly described Luffy's power. We can use your definition to break down the Kaido fight, and see you had all the evidence for toon force pre-egg head.
Paraphrasing: "Toon Force is a governing law that grants super natural strength or defense, that suits the comedic effect of the current circumstance." Luffy before awakening didn't have the power or defense to resist Kaido. And once luffy had toon force, he suddenly had the ability to comedically counter kaido. Suddenly hits that would've probably KO'd him, send him bouncing into a rubbery earth. Suddenly he isn't just resistant to lightning, but can now grab it and play with it before, before absorbing it into his punch and exploding with unseen power. Im gonna argue that Toon Force in a battle shonen doesn't need to only be applied to comedic moments. So the part of your argument that says it must suit the comedic effect of the current circumstance, really should say anything that suits the storys narrative circumstances.
"It is not to be assumed to make them more powerful/ invincible in any situation." This is only the case in comedy shows, because it's sometimes funny to see the character hurt. In a battle shonen, if a character had toon force, it wouldn't make sense for them to get weaker if the situation wasn't funny. So for example with Kaido fight, luffy couldn't tank an attack from kaido pre awakening. After awakening we see him using comedy to sustain the damage he's taking. Then we even see him finally having the strength to block his attacks. He didn't get weaker on any given attacks, just bc he couldn't think of a way to do it funny.
"It relies on the users sense of comedic effect. then they have to wait for or create the funny situation. and it has to be objectively funny." Actually few of your examples of toon force was a result of the user finding the humor, in fact some didnt have any users, since the comedy is always coming from their creator. As in if the author thinks it fits the situation, then the toon force happens. It's not something the characters control. In the context of One Piece, that would be all the not so funny visual gags that Oda finds funny and enjoys drawing.
So when Oda tells us Luffy's power is turning imagination into reality, and we constantly see luffy beat the impossible odds, and he fights in a comedic way, how can it be called anything other than toon force? Your whole argument is just taking out of context interviews of people talking about their own works, and applying a twisted version of that to one piece. but wince you want to put your whole definition in the words of those creators, then notice toei called it toon force themselves.
You cooked.
Man, you deconstructed this guy's whole argument, lol
bro just destroyed surfbones argument
This dude isn't going to like chapter 1111. Luffy literally pulls a bucket of paint and a helmet with 'Gomu' written on it out of nothing for a gag. Not a good sign for this video's longevity.
Lol you read two piece not one piece ,
Sum:
Luffy g can give rubber properties at anything (maybe) he touches(that's called fruit awakening (register that)
Toon force is beyond what luffy do lol,pls go watch a real cartoons 😐,luffy need to make contact with his target, and the popping eyes is common in op😐
@@African-AmericanGoose are you sure that u read the chapter 1111?😂. luffy out of no where pulled a baseball cap and a paint bucket and he painted a tree the tree and made a actual base ball bat .🤣
@@DnA_D_G that's was explained luffy zoans is special
If you dnt know what's toon force is and what's transmutation so i can help you
@@DnA_D_G gremmy from bleach do the same but way waaaaaay better but its called reality warping, not toon force, in luffy its fruit awakening
@@African-AmericanGooseLuffy is in the air. He pulled a batters helmet and bucket of paint out of nowhere for a comedic gag. Where did he get those from bud? Nothing you just put down explains that.
Using gags made for the audience to debunk Luffy when Kaido has a statement comparing his power to a comic and Luffy running on air is not the same as Sky walk
Exactly no one in one piece can run on air like a cartoon character like Luffy but a lot characters can sky walk so it’s completely different things
@@Mohamad-m7mdThat makes no sense
@@divisionagentbailey6727 since when cartoon characters makes sense?
@@mathieul4303 He is saying people. Ant run in air despite people being able to do so
Well this aged like milk lol
Way better. Luffy can only make objects out of rubber including his body parts and their apparent separation its limited to his imagination as well as he needs an object even if just light or air in order to create or "pull apart" "destroy" or "erase"
Do yall one piece fans know how to read???
Aye, now make a video of Luffy having Toon Force, 👍😃👍go read chapter 1111✅
If he had toon force why didn’t he hurt Saturn because he could have found it funny that the damage to Saturn sticks? It’s literally a debate that can’t be debated unless we get more info.
@@LuckyDragon9444 because they are immortal and still luffy gonna find a way to damage them
@@LuckyDragon9444 loll look at who is trying to cop, "if he had toon force why didn't he beat the villain yet" 😂😂😂.
@@akadenanderson3283Answer the question. Also do you know what cope means? Are you 12?
@@chelseafootball397 If thats toon force then Luffy could have bypass it easily as its literally reality warping, what even is higher? Reality warping or immortality? Cuz if u can manipulate reality u can change theyre immortality, thus proving Luffy doesnt have toon force, its just that he can make things into rubber and reshape it, if thats his awakening then its against what Devil Fruit awakening does, Luffy's awakening is like logia he can affect things and turn it into rubber, Luffy's ability is like toon force but much more behave and controlled.
About time to take this down
Expecting an update soon
Here’s the thing and why I believe this video will continue to age like milk. You have no evidence of what Luffy ability is but I do.
We know Luffy didn’t eat the rubber fruit,
We know people have remarked his ability doesn’t work like rubber should
We know Oda was inspired by Cartoons that would be described as toonforce
So if it’s not Rubber and it’s not toonforce then what could his power be?
Literally look no farther than the 3rd point I brought up about Oda.
Luffy’s power is based on Cartoons that would be described as toonforce.
Edit: thank you Oda for confirming toonforce in latest SBS
What could his powers be? His Devil Fruit, idk why new abilities mean it can’t be the result of his it and that it has to be something else. Just because I can walk like a duck and sound like one, doesn’t mean I am one. You need to prove a correlation, not cite a similarity and expect someone to agree with you because “it looks like it and I can’t imagine anything else”
@@surfboneso you can’t think of what his devil fruit actually is?
Listen I understand, no one knows wtf Nika is but if we don’t ignore context clues then maybe we can make realistic theories like Luffy’s powers being based on how Cartoon characters operate.
All I did was note evidence (not proof) that his fruit may be cartoon based. It’s not exactly a crazy concept by Oda to create.
@@surfbonewhat could his power be hmmm 🤔 maybe turning imagination into reality and vegapunk stated that imagination is boundless
@@surfboneAdobe rubber hose animation. The specific animation style that has to do with cartoon physics. All parts of gear 5th use rubber hose animation which is separate from their normal animation. Cartoon physics applies to rubber hose animation and by extension luffy since he’s directly animated in the rubber hose animation style. Old black and white cartoons. Adobe has an article on rubber hose animation.
@@surfbonegloves are usually used to cover the hands in this animation style and characters are long and lanky. The gloves part isn't a universal thing but it's common. His physics clearly changes. Your seeing it through one specific view. Read up on the article once you have time. Subsequent cartoons that follow like tom and Jerry have rubber hose animation styles in different ways as its animation has changed over the years. The thing is your definitely looking at it from the view like Oda did something new and unheard of that cannot be categorized or at least that's what your heavily implying. But Oda directly states he took it from another media. Cross culture inspiration isn't a bad thing at all.
New chapter says otherwise lmao
Only the spoiler summaries have been released, not even the raw leaks have came out. Stop jumping to conclusions before we even see what really occurs.
@@surfbone Dude it's toon force lol, you tried and reached some, just take that L my boy😂
@@LamezNation Prove it’s Toon Force then buddy Lol
@@surfbone 1111 read🤓
@@LamezNation prove that Luffy’s powers are derived from Toon Force specifically. Like what actual proof is there besides your Headcanon intuition? Lol
I feel good to be one piece fan Luffy doesn't have what read spoilers 1111🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Jumping to conclusions before you even see the raws, that’s crazy Lol
@@surfbone still denying it is crazy he didn't grab it out his hair bra when he got scared his eyes,hat,and clothes and the chest scar got blown away carriage the cowardly dog style
@@surfbone of all things he's chest scar now that's crazy that's toon force bud
@@moesavage1825 maybe I don’t think it’s Toon Force because I don’t think it’s a real concept and made a whole section in my video talking about it. That’s crazy
@@surfboneyou’re wrong stop being stubborn. Bro literally spawned paint in a bucket and a paint brush out of nowhere and a baseball cap
Toon force is just a composite power effectively
Chapter 1109 just cooked this whole video
No it didn’t, no mention of “Toon Force” anywhere. Also, glad to hear you admit that everything prior to 1109 was debunked but this video 😊. Glad to know I did a good job Lol
@surfbone lmao you thought you cooked, didn't you? You didn't, and since when did Toon Force have to be mentioned as Toon Force to be Toon Force
@@ss3vegito999 Because unless you can substantiate that what Luffy does in this new chapter is contingent on him relying upon Toon Force to accomplish this feat. INSTEAD of him altering the properties of Kizaru and Saturn via his DF Awakening.
Then you’re just spewing headcanon and are tryna cope
😂
@@ss3vegito999 don’t know why u laughing, he right
This aged horribly
No it didn’t, but it’s not like you actually watched it Lol
@@surfbone why aren’t you replying to people talking about chapter 1111
@@lifeguardfish2616 Because it doesn’t change my video pal
@@surfboneStay in denial😂
Fr, how badly this video aged his hilarious
😂😂😂😂😂😂
I knew it wouldn't age well.
He has Toon force deal with it
For 😂😂
This video was made before 1111 stop hating 😭
The video doesn’t change regardless of 1111, since nothing really happened that contradicts how I view Toon Force
@@surfbone “how i view” is the key word. Your stating your research as fact without testing that’s peer review the research at best is flimsy considering your also trying to disprove a concept already established based on your own beliefs WITHOUT considering an alternative. I recommend you use the format for hypothesis statements moving forward considering a null statement, then supplying an alternate hypothesis instead of trying to debunk something to prove a point. Make one statement at a time. Supply evidence, to one and try to disprove it and supply an alternative take while testing if it applies. Then move on to the second statement that being “toon force is a nonexistent concept” as another statement altogether supplying proof to your statement with research it’s like basics in probability. You keep constantly state your hypothesis as right when you say it’s your view. If it’s an opinion why keep saying others are wrong? It’s the equivalent of saying red is the best color and shooting down other statements. It’s an opinion, if you really believe it is your view then accept the criticism instead of constantly saying you’re right. I saw that you went out of your way a few times to just not reply to others statements but if you were really that confident in your statement why not let the research speak for itself instead of constantly trying to defend it? Like you’re researching a topic, act like a researcher instead of someone who blindly goes with their own beliefs because it’s giving off that vibe hardcore. Statements like “your just helping the algorithm” is showing where your views lay as your not trying to make a real statement and are focused solely on the backlash. Where do your priorities lay?
Raws are out 😂 you should delete this video, cause its clearly toon force
Oh? Where is it stated to be? Or are you just making that up based on baseless intuition and you’re just coping? Lol
@@surfbone we ain't blind bro😂. It's not that hard to accept the truth
@@sasankakalita5440Also if you read the raws, you would know he literally grabbed a tree and craved it with his teeth till it looked like a bat. So nice try at acting like it was even something similar to Toon Force. Rip Bozo, you should delete this comment 😂
@@surfbone stop crying😂 what about the scars that put back on and the cap he was wearing and the paint?? Don't tell me Luffy used your tears to paint his bat😂.
@@sasankakalita5440 Damn, I didn’t know allegedly spawning in paint a cap was a Toon Force specific ability 😱. Y’all just like to create whatever criteria you want Lol
Don’t matter if u ask me because gear 5 Luffy can still turn imagination into reality
Very clearly toon force you even get whacky sound effects from things Luffy is doing.
Something you can’t even explain with rubber like Luffy putting his eyes back and making Kaido see birds and stars spinning around.
Running on air leaving a smoke trail and shook his burnt body away.
When he gets angry you see smoke coming out of his head.
Oda sketch drawing already stated his limit is his imagination.
Cartoon animation style is literally called Rubberhose and they even hired an animator who worked on with Warner Bros before.
Whack sounds don’t imply Toon Force, unless you wanna suggest Luffy can go Super Saiyan now because Toei is lazy and reuses sound effects.
I don’t think you understand that a gag occurring doesn’t then imply it must be Toon Force.
I already explained this
Again, idk why that’s Toon Force specific only.
Already went over this in the video.
Also, Rubberhose animation is very specific in what it looks like, not all animation falls under it. Please do your research and think about things more critically next time
I agree Gag scene happening doesn’t confirm Toon Force.
Like you pointed out Gag scene has happened in the past like Sanji turning to stone or Luffy drinking milk to regrow his teeth.
However those are random occurrences and mostly exclusive to Ussop and Sanji.
With Gear 5th they ain’t random GaG scenes since every time we see that form these things are expected and even serious characters are now influenced by it
Luffy running on air is not the same since he can’t do it without that form and technique being different is important as others don’t use these methods and it’s even followed up by a “Vroom” sound effect which others method doesn’t have
Furthermore done stuff we haven’t seen yet like making stars and birds appear
Awakening for Paramecia Devil fruits shouldn’t be doing things from Logia and Zoan
Blackbeard it’s implied his body and most recently his lineage are different so it’s wrong to compare him to Luffy reality breaking
It’s just something that haven’t been explained.
Forgot the last point with SSJ that’s the animation studio and not canon to the manga so no he can’t transform to SSJ and it wasn’t the studio intent as you said they’re just lazy.
The ones used in the manga however are canon like “Vroom”
Can’t even say they’re lazy could just be a reference. They even made transitions copy Dragonball and hired the same animators as the one who did DBZ to replicate them
You dug a hole for yourself. Luffy is going to pull things out of thin air till the end of series and none of them has anything to do with rubber. This video is going to be proved wrong again and again. Toon force is breaking physics of the one piece world for gag. Luffy did it by pulling a paint can out of thin air, treating his wound scar as sticker and putting it on himself. None of this possible according to law of physics.
How come you pulling a matter(paint can) out of thin air is valid according to law of physics? Luffy doesn't have some kind of pocket dimensions where he store his stuff nor he can convert energy. Matter always remains constant but he did increase it by pulling a can. It is not even matter manipulation anymore. Breaking laws for fight in anime is one thing but breaking laws for gag is toon force.
Honestly I will visit this video just to enjoy the cope everytime luffy pull something like that in future.
Surfbone is quite literally one of the better power scalers and debaters
@@ClassicalAlwayslol > Thinks Appeal to Reality is a Fallacy
> Gets confronted on it
> Responds with childish comments
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 it could be under circumstances???
@@ClassicalAlwayslolFallacies are related to contradictions and contradictions in symbolic thought are always false no matter what so there is no circumstance here.
This didn’t age well buddy if the new episode that just dropped isn’t an example of toon force .Please tell me what is
The power of freedom with a rubber body and the power of imagination, not toon force.
@@lordyoda9382 Ok, I can understand that.
Oda “yeah Luffys new power up was inspired by the Looney Toons”
Surfbone “Luffy doesn’t have toon force”
Oda “Looney TOONS”
Inspired by Tom and Jerry, not Looney Tunes
Ok, Homlander is inspired by Superman, therefore he is Superman...
By your logic, Goku should be able to transform into anything he can think of because Sun Wukong can
@@surfbonesurbone you claimed a lot things without evidence like the comparing the gag moments to the layer eyes from cartoons that oda even confirmed it from cartoons and he even confirmed it from gear 5 then claim the sky walk thing that requires you to jump and not just leg swirl dash through the sky that oda confirmed that it from a cartoon then you made headcanon about red roc when there no evidence to apply that to his feet he couldn’t do none of these things before gear 5
@@firefistace5230 Inspirations don’t mean they’re the same bro. Oda doesn’t say anything about Luffy getting his powers from some outside source. So you’re the one with the headcanon coming up with stuff Oda didn’t say, not me.
Also, Luffy can only produce fire from arms but not his legs. Because you arbitrarily decided that it’s not evidence he could do that with his other appendages besides his arms. And yet instead it’s proof of Toon Force. That’s super disingenuous. Whether or not he did it before Gear 5 or not doesn’t matter. You need to prove a correlation of his powers deriving from Toon Force. Not just you misinterpreting Ora’s words
So let me get this straight... luffy can do minor reality warping and spawn things into reality to make gags "spawn goggles/create haki paint to paint a fricking tree bat" but its not toon force 🤨 the creator also said that its inspiration was toons .. come on dude
None of those have to correlate to a non-existent concept dawg. It’s not rocket science
he made them from his rubber dumbass its his awakened power
@@surfbone go ahead and google the definition again buddy
@@samdopazojohansson2201 ah yes, because VS Wiki coined the term means it exists. Watch my video bud, I know more about this than you do
The thing is when they said that Luffy’s new form is his imagination that’s technically toon force as a whole. I’m not trying to argue or try to make it seem like I have read every single chapter but what I have read that could basically outdo this whole entire video as a whole is Dr. Slump’s gag physics aka slapstick comic physics aka toon force. This way of doing things has been going on for years and the fact that you don’t talk about this more often in Japanese animation is very hypocritical because literally Astro boy, dorodoro, and many others as a list can literally go on as anime has been using this way of animation for years and it feels like Gear 5 has brought it back. Gag characters try to keep it alive in certain ways.
Bro its so funny how people are so adamant about it not being toon force when it obviously is. Its hilarious actually.
This definitely didn't age well🤣
As a disclaimer, I'm not making this comment to debate the subject, as I don't believe Luffy has toonforce or anything similar (until proven, at least). I just wanna point out some flaws I saw in the argument section of the video.
16:29
I think there's a difference that you're not acknowledging. In the moments where the characters eyes pop out as a gag, the universe reacts to it as a gag (aka, nobody points out how weird that is) which is not what happens when G5 affects other people, as we see Kaido and Yamato comment on it.
For the argument that the scene in question is not an example of gag based reality warping to work, it has to be implied that it's something that happened only for the sake of the gag and bears no real repercussions in the world.
For example, the weird face Ussop makes to scare the girl with the Hobi Hobi (forgot her name) is a gag because if it was just a random face expression of Ussop (that looked normal) it would still make her scared shtless. The exaggerated face is for the comedic effect and the universe "doesn't notice" the misshape.
17:10
Kind of a nitpick, but Geppo is not a power of Haki.
There's also the fact that Luffy kicks the air to fly in Gear 4th, while here he's running. And, also, he has never shown the ability to put the air on fire. Him being able to put his fist on fire is not a comparable thing, in the same way we can't say saitama can create explosions because he made rock explode by punching it.
It is still a feat and there's no explanation as of today, so, at worst it's just an outlier.
22:32
This is an argument ive seen a lot of people make and it genuinely feels like a poor attempt at a rebuttal.
It assumes multiple things, some of them are just ridiculous like "Luffy can't create glass, but he has enough control to the molecular level of his rubber to change its composition and elasticity to make rubber glass" which goes against Ockham's Razor.
It is easier to prove that Luffy can just create glass than to prove he suddenly gets a master's degree at chemistry.
This is ignoring the fact that texture is a thing. Meaning that the argument goes more around the lines of "He can't create glass, he just manipulates the molecular structure of rubber to make different textures and chemical compositions out of the rubbery material". Which again is a long way of saying "Luffy is now a genious at chemistry".
Remember that we never seen or get any statements of Luffy doing things just because there's a chance of it working. He either knows how to do it or can't do it.
And that's as far as my complaints go. Good video, as always 🤙
Nice, your making actual points instead mindless ranting like everyone else
@vegetacultminorityhunter Fr,OP actually addresses the creator's statements,I was hoping I'd find a comment like that.
Actually. Ur afraid of Luffy being unstoppable from the way u talk. Constantly trying to bring in death battle logic into reality and trying to make sense of what doesn’t make sense.
If that helps you cope then that’s fine. You still didn’t provide any means actual criticism or counter arguments
@@surfbone”your afraid of luffy”. Sounds so whiney. Most people don’t understand he can warp MATTER and manipulate reality
@@TCSceptreluffy when highballed can only do at best minimal toon force and mainly relies on manipulating his environment and body to rubber
Luffy hasn’t canonically shown toon force that is so strong it goes beyond solar system level so far
So Luffy still loses to Goku and characters who go beyond solar system level
Luffy might be continental/planetary if we really glaze him but yeah that is about it
you clearly don't know how haki works lmao. Armament Haki Creates A Spiritual Armor Around The User, you can't physically grab spiritual energy only HARNESS it (I thought I'd make it clear with caps since you have problems with definitions). Only Gear 5 Luffy in a result of his devil fruit can manipulate Haki into a physical form ex. Haki painted onto a tree that hits back the poison explosive spit for comedic relief, and by bending the reality of One Piece in a comedic way Oda achieves a satisfying and refreshing take on the very definition of Toon Force. I don't understand your point in even arguing what's 'toon force' is when we should all be grateful Oda has not ruined the series when some would of done so easily.
my point is eyes popping out are a ha ha funny effect whereas the haki paint is a funny affect. just a little English lesson for ya :) im positive we will continue to see more uses of toon force in both ways since it is an anime after all. Also you cant say One Piece doesn't have toon force if you genuinely believe it doesn't exist that's paradoxical and I would say dishonest in itself.
Thr fact that crunchyroll say other wise is crazy😂😂
Crunchyroll is a streaming service, you might as well say the guy in the ramen shop has some level of authority if you think Crunchyroll has any Lmao
@@surfboneCrunchyroll's channel literally stated in the One Piece clips titled “Luffy launches Kaido with toon force.”
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 Crunchyroll is not Oda, it’s like Netflix making claims on any anime it gets the rights to stream.
@@surfboneNo but Crunchyroll themselves do not have licenses to lie about the details of an anime clip.
@@onlyechadtherebellious2467 They lied, back then people wasn’t sure so they think it’s toon force, now that Oda explained the inspiration of gear 5 and what the abitlies are, it’s not toon force at all.
His powers support comedy and freedom of anyone he’s trying to save so the show is right to do so. So stop reacting in a funny way bcuz u wanna cancel the plot 😂😂😂😂
Love the headcanon, keep yapping boy. The algorithm is gonna boost this video more
@@surfbonewe know the world will see your stupidity
@@surfboneit’s hardcore cope considering your video is still under 20k even though it’s one of the top search results after 7 months. The algorithm isn’t working in your favor lol
@@alexmogrove8034 Thanks for contributing more than one comment, the algorithm doesn’t discriminate 👍
@@surfboneclearly your doing something wrong if this video is doing much worse than your past ones 😂 11 months ago you got to 20k on a video but it seems this one isn’t getting traction. Your argument of it helping you is clearly not the case maybe those hidden dislikes play a role and that’s why your depending on comments to gain traction.
dude in eggehad luffy LITERALLY creates googles out ot thin fucking AIR just for it's gag about shooting himself at high speed against lucci becouse that ( the speed ) is the gag in that context. the googles are made from nothing and serve NO other purpose but the gag. it's toon force. deal with it.
this entire video is huge super cringe cope
OMG scary, he created some goggles. Such a dead giveaway clearly, Every Toon Force user makes goggles so he must have it 😱😱😱😱
@@surfbone no your legit cooked, Luffy shown tons of toon force even new leaks of the chapter say he created a baseball bat and hit a home run
@@LorGhostly OR Maybe you should wait till the actual chapter releases before jumping to conclusions bud.
@@surfbone and if he does then what you gone admit he has toon force?
@@LorGhostly It’s almost like you didn’t watch my original video where I don’t even agree that Toon Force as a concept even exists. And that I basically worked under premise that it does for the sake of the argument to show just how unfounded and terrible it is to even make said argument. No amount of new chapters coming out are really gonna “debunk” the points I make in this video. I suggest rewatching it so you better understand my stance
cap, everyone who knows what toon force is knows he has it... the fact that he ran on air and made glasses out of nothing for the comedic effect proves it, but tbh we need more feats like this, luffy has "limited toon force"
Basic reality Manipulation= toon force to you?
@@vegetacultminorityhunter That's... Literally what toon force is. It's the ability to manipulate reality in a tangible way for the sole purpose of comedic effect.
And emphasis on the word "Tangible". Gags happen in universe, so, a character getting their face deformed in an impossible manner are only exaggerated versions of what's actually happening, for comedic effect obviously.
For example, Nami being able to hurt Luffy is there for comedic effect and it's an exaggerated version of the actual damage he sustained (emotional damage according to Oda).
On the other hand, toon force actually and tangibly manipulates the universe. For example, bugs bunny drawing a hole in the wall and jumping inside it created a hole, and there's no de-escalation of that feat, you can't say the hole is up to interpretation.
An easier way to understand it is: If the universe doesn't pay attention to it, then it's a gag. If the universe actively points at how that's not possible, then it's Toonforce.
@@ーテイル 1. Luffy running on air
Isn't funny nor does anyone inverse think it's funny, same thing with Luffy creating glasses.
2. You should change the word "universe" to reality. Because he's just manipulating reality around him not the entire universe.
@@vegetacultminorityhunter You completely missed the point. Congratulations.
@@ーテイル 🤷🏿♂️
toon force is not for comedic and funny effects sense you cant say that bugs thought it was funny he was going to die in space jam legacy but the reason he didn't is because he said so or SpongeBob getting erased and coming back i know luffy doesn't have toon force but at least know what toon force is and where it gets its source from.
so... toon force is the "rule of cool" except of "cool", its "funny"?
Tbh, that’s like the most adept description I have ever seen 😂😂👍
@@surfbone
I did not expect a reply,
...Should i be thanking the "rule of cool" or the "rule of funny" for this occasion,
Anyways, your video is cool.
After chapter 1111 I can officially say this video is wrong luffy has toonforce 😂go read the chapter and you'll know why.
Came here for this!
His body parts literally get flown off and then he reassembles it 😭
@@Plushplush1 😱❌👁️👁️🩴🩴👒☁️
@@Plushplush1 Also, conjuring a paint brush & baseball hat out of nowhere, no cap FR FR 🔥🔥
Bullshit he just turns shit into rubber
27 minute video of you yapping and being wrong just for Crunchyroll to debunk you're video 😂😂
A TH-cam tagline from a streaming service is not evidence my guy, Crunchyroll is not Oda. Keeping coping lol
Unless egghead gets fully animated, I aint talking yet. This won't age well if Luffy really brought the paint bucket and paint brush out of nowhere while the cap is the hair transformed for real.
Honey, get the popcorn. Surf uploaded.
I'm cooking it wait a sec
bro yapping for 27 minutes straight😂
The man spawned sunglasses out of thin air. He has Toon Force.
Matter Manipulation
nah, if it looks like a toon force, barks like a toon force, it's toon force
Utter headcanon
@@surfbone same could be said about your opinion
@@SquallTheBlade I’m still waiting for an actual argument to be presented Lol
@@surfbone my argument is pretty simple. Not sure how you missed it
@@SquallTheBlade just saying “yo bro it looks like toon Force so it must be.” Is not an argument, if you’re going to assert a correlation you have to prove it. That’s how basic burden of proof works
Luffy is just getting started tho he still thinks his fruit is just the gum gum fruit let's see what he can do once he learns or masters the nature of his fruit
ok Luffy has too force , and where does that leave him? nowhere ! why ? because he dnt have the feats for back it up ,his feats is nothing in comparation to a real toon force user, no plot manipulation, no truth manipulation, no law of identity manipulation, no fate manipulation, no dimensionality manipulation
high feat = high lvl of toon
luffy only feat is just some mid high transmutation and maybe realty warping(lvl fodder)
11:16 This is something I definitely agree with. Even ignoring the whole debate on whether or not toon force is a thing, or whether or not Luffy has it, by the end of the day the One Piece fans would still have to showcase feats of what Luffy can even do with his toon force, even if we were to accept he has it, so at the end of the day this really doesn't change much when it comes to debates.
For example, let's say we're debating Luffy vs Naruto, and let's say we all accept Naruto is Planet level in the debate (just for the sake of example, I'm not here to debate what level Naruto is actually at), and someone says "Luffy has toon force" as a counterargument: Okay, so what? Can he use that toon force to blow up a planet? Does he have feats of doing that with his toon force? If he doesn't, then he is still not beating Naruto, so by the end of the day this really doesn't affect the debate.
I feel this whole discussion feels kind of pointless, personally. I honestly do not know why some people try to place toon force as if it was this unbeatable ability when that is clearly just a no limits fallacy.
They mean that everything is possible and nobody knows how the fight will end as a fight is not determined by destruction only
I personally think he has toon force up to a certain point, like just a hint of toon force. Definitely not on the same level of toon force like Popeye, the Mask, or SpongeBob.
you clearly don't know how haki works lmao. Armament Haki Creates A Spiritual Armor Around The User, you can't physically grab spiritual energy only harness it. Only Gear 5 Luffy in a result of his devil fruit can manipulate Haki into a physical form ex. Haki painted onto a tree that hits back the poison explosive spit for comedic relief, and by bending the reality of One Piece in a comedic way Oda achieves a satisfying and refreshing take on the very definition of Toon Force. I don't understand your point in even arguing what's 'toon force' is when we should all be grateful Oda has not ruined the series when some would of done so easily.
This video is not helpful
This then age well after the interview with Oda it is confirmed he has toon force
@@JumpMan64. no he doesn’t Lol
Ya got surf pissed 😂
I’m not just your average hater
I’m a professional hater
@@surfbone 😈
From the recent Q & A, Oda just confirmed that Toon Force. Lolss.
@@hellodanknessmyoldfriend6101 no he didn’t, y’all just like to believe anything is evidence for Toon Force Lol
@@surfbone Luffy does have Toon Force, Oda answered 10 more questions after the last SBS, the first question said this, “When using Gear 5th, Luffy takes out things like goggles or a baseball helmet out his hagoromo cloud scarf. Please tell us how that works” Oda said “It's the entrance to Nika’s fantasy” Oda basically confirmed Nika could do whatever he wanted if Luffy would stop using it as a rubber fruit and someone informed him of what it actually is
@@TrayLoren Despite that being one of the most vague answers Oda has ever given, I still don’t see how that’s specifically Toon Force and not just Luffy having a pocket dimension.
@@surfbone 7 months after, you’re still dense af. Why are you hellbent on pocket dimension when we see him morph his body or things into other thing. I never saw someone be in so much denial and really believe he’s the one in the right.
@ hell bent? You seriously don’t understand my position whatsoever
No way Luffy's goofiness effecting the editing style 🤯
I would define toon force as: "a type of reality bending, which allows the user to bend reality or bypass natural laws in such a way, to make objects and environment behave more comedic or animated". So I would say Luffy has Toon Force, because he influence objects to move and bend in a certain way
Yeah but people think toon force means Omni abilities
@@czms922 the way I see it, reality bending abilities can make someone omnipotent, but not always. It also depends on how much and how potent the individual can bend reality. I am inspired by the SCP Foundation, where they catogerize reality benders in different tier levels. Some reality benders can only alter one object in near vicinity, others are omnipotent gods who can destroy universes. There also can be other limits like how much imagination the reality bender has or other mental limitations like how your subconscious affects you or how you can only bend that, what you can see
so you are saying doflamingo also has toonforce then?
@@90bubbel60 he has in my definition a limited type of reality bending (he can transform matter into strings and manipulate it as he wants) but not toon force. Reality bending only becomes toon force if is bound by the purpose of comedy
@@90bubbel60 as I said, for me toon force is a specific type of reality bending, but not all reality bending is toon force
this aged well ahahaha. Oda latest SBS revealed luffy has the ability of imagination
@@AbdulwahidAli-j2e No he didn’t, he said that “it’s an entrance to Nika’s reality.” Which is vague asf and has not been elaborated on
Wow so in response to where Luffy is getting his goggles and helmet Oda said it’s the entrance to nikas fantasy?
What’s vague about this? He’s responding to a reader wanting to know how Luffy is making shit out of nothing and Oda said it comes from gear 5.
So these aren’t gags, it’s happening in the story
@@surfbone oda: he's opening up a portal to his imagination and pulling objects out.
You: "Hmm.. sounds unclear according to my reading comprehension"
Average luffy hater
Ah yes, because specifically talking about the dumb arguments YOU people make means I hate Luffy. Flawless logic. Way to shift it to making it about Luffy when the video is targeted at YOU
@@surfbone this did not age well🤣
@@surfbone so just the power of Gear 5 is just look like toon force?
@@kingtheking2322 you can say it looks like it. But that’s not evidence of it being it. And besides that, I don’t think Toon Force is a legit concept that empirically exists. And the only notations of it are based on intuition, vibe, and theory.
@@surfbone Keep coping kid🤣
all this is debunked by the mask comic which is inherently a horror comic and Not suppose to be funny
What is said in the comic? Name the chapter and page number
@@surfbone The mask as a series is a horror comic, in comic Big Head (the persona that a mask makes someone become) is a brutal serial killer and the tone of the comic is dark dark
Big Head is a being with limitless power, so a lot of the violence he does is toon force, but it is not suppose to be funny
Now comedy is in the eye of the beholder but as a concept the comic is serious in tone
@@surfbonenothing?
@@alexmogrove8034 I legit didn’t see your comment till now. But yeah, you didn’t even answer my question. I asked for a specific chapter and page for where you think it’s evidence for Toon Force. Idc for your summarized version of the series and how you interpreted it. Give me the empirical evidence
You must not of seen episode 1100. Gonna need to circle back my guy
Just deal with it bro
He creates glasses and hats, gnaws a tree to make a baseball bat, and sticks fallen scars like stickers. Dude, don't comment on series you haven't read.
@@Johan-zf8kn For someone who’s accusing someone of the inability the read, you would understand this video came out before all those other feats besides the glasses. As well as my disclaimer at the beginning that it’s subject to change due to the series being ongoing. Next time, read before you comment
wha abbout when luffy chewed a tree into a bat & painted it & put on a helmet he got from nowhere & then had his scars blown off him?
You can literally just say they’re new abilities that his Devil Fruit has just demonstrated and it changes nothing. There’s still much yet to be revealed about it so it makes sense if it feels like we’re still missing out on crucial details.
@@surfboneoh i'm not confused, he's the mask! but instead of loki he's nika.
@@jennih261 I mean, I would just wait to see if more info drops in regards to Gear 5 to see if his abilities have as much of a wide variety.
@@surfbonehe's makin me laugh- all I need to know ^^I like our hero bugs bunny
@@jennih261 I wouldn’t go that far, we still have only seen Gear 5 a handful of times and he barely beat Kaido. Don’t set your expectations so high that you think he’ll be Bugs Bunny level by the end. Just wait and see
This didn’t age well when oda just said luffys toon force in between pop eye and bugs bunny lvl toon force ☠️☠️☠️☠️
@@patricks6305 when and where?
@ I was fooled by 4 people don’t mind my dumb ass 🫣
Luffy has hammer space... Something every toon force character has
Where is it stated then?
@@surfboneshow don’t tell. It’s a basic concept in writing. A fictional storage space where one can pull items from. Look it up man. Or do you need a whole jjk explanation with equations to explain a power system?
@@alexmogrove8034 A Narrative concept that you’re using as an excuse to say it’s fine if you claim it’s there. But Idc for your headcanon of what you think is true, I want emperical evidence
@@surfbonea narrative concept isn’t an excuse. It’s an already established idea that’s used widely. Throughout media. Your if you can’t tell it’s not even my head cannon anymore it’s a widely accepted concept however seeing how your video is doing worse than your earlier videos it’s seems like your head cannon isn’t as valid as you claim it to be.
@@surfbonebtw there’s already a bunch of evidence if you look at the precise definition of what your trying to disprove. First you say that he doesn’t have tune force, second you say it doesn’t exist. There’s a clear classification for it that your going out your way to say isn’t real. And you acknowledged ALREADY in another comment that it’s specifically your opinion. You’re now saying that other ideas aren’t true? Your opinion isn’t anything other than an opinion not any more true than another statement. Instead you’re trying to argue that yours is true and we should also completely ignore an already established concept when you don’t seem to be a writer yourself how can you say the importance of a writing technique isn’t important when you don’t use it?
The limit of luffy's toon force is whatever Oda thinks is funny.
Oh and yh. Luffys powers are said to bring smile to pples faces. And derives power from the joy of others so yeah ur the one who’s actually not thinking. If he has toon force, he does. You just don’t want to give it to him cuz he’s powerful
Where is stated he “derives power from the joy of others”? And even then how does that change anything? Also dawg, Luffy’s not even that powerful with it. He can’t damage let alone kill the Gorosei, what does him having Toon Force gonna do to anyone who’s actually stronger than them?
@@surfboneoh so you accept he has toon force 🤣?
@@surfbone so u accept he has Toonforce.. ur just scared it might make him stronger than ur best characters rii? 🌚
Just accept it bro. Where’d all these insecurities come from?? You’ve become a joke to the internet 😂
But I understand u just want boosted videos and arguments lol. I know you bro
@@omokoladeowoeye2939 do you understand what a Steel Man is dawg? I’m saying even if you’re right, it means nothing. Luffy doesn’t become Bugs Bunny all of a sudden. You need should probably learn how to read next tiem
@@surfbone,you don't get it, in toon force, killing is not allowed,if it was allowed, Tom or Jerry should have died 😂
21:23 To add to the creation of constructs rebuttal, Luffy is not the only one who has been shown capable of transmuting matter from one thing to another (because that's essentially what he does)...
Luffy can take the clouds he creates while in Gear 5, and basically turn them into something different (to what extent, is to be determined).
If you aren't a stranger to devil fruits in One Piece, this shouldn't be a surprise to you because we have seen similar applications of devil fruit abilities specific to the properties of said Devil Fruit, especially the paramecia type which Luffy's devil has a lot in common with, so much so to the point where, for close to 800 years, it had been classified as one.
Doflamingo: He creates a full clone of himself with clothes a glasses, we also see how his awakening works.
Doffy turns everything around him that isn't human or animal into strings, so things like houses and everything inside them, tv sets, furniture, glass, clothes, concrete blocks, metals etc... He literally turns other matter into strings and it has a wide area of effect and the destruction caused is permanent.
Luffy turns matter into rubber *temporarily as the effect is limited by continuous physical contact as whatever he turns into rubber regains its original state once it's let go. One can change the entire constitution of matter into strings, whereas the other can only make matter *act as if rubber.
Doffy's devil fruit has far better matter transmutation, the only reason why Luffy's is stated to only be limited by the imagination is because it can also affect humans and animals on top of other things, evidenced by him turning Kaido into rubber at some points during their fight.
Kidd can create any tech out of scraps of metal. On higher ends, he can even create mechs that fly without any fuel or boosters (which breaks physics if you choose to ignore the fact that he controls magnetic fields), create boxes that can trap electricity/lightning and even railguns... So Luffy *rubberizes clouds to create a pair of goggles, cool... Kidd *magnetizes scraps to create a pair of floating skulls, cool...
Luffy rubberized Kaido mid fight, cool.
Kidd magnetized Big Mom, cool.
So far, all I'm seeing is Luffy using his rubber based abilities to it's peak with his awakening, just like Doffy and Kidd 🤷♂️.
The only difference being, "bUt He'S gOoFy🤪"
Kanjuro creates sentient beings out of paint, not just goggles or railguns or spears, sentient beings... He's taking paint, and transforming it into something that moves and functions on its own.
Vice Admiral Tsuru can turn anything she touches into clothing and literally hang them up to dry, Luffy can turn people rubber and skip rope with them? oh cool...makes sense.
I can keep going on, but if at this point you still need me to keep on going on pointing out just how consistent Gear 5 is with the devil fruit power system, then you're already lost because you've read 1000+ chapters and understood nothing, I'm sorry.
The point of all this was to really hammer home that, Luffy's awakening while very unique (as it shares the same properties with all other known awakening types), is still very much CONSISTENT with the established Devil Fruit power system and how Awakening works, even more so because his devil fruit is a Mythical type, hence why it isn't limited to Doffy's and Katakuri's AOE type awakening while having elements similar to it, or why it is similar to Kidd's and Law's awakenings in the sense that they can directly affect their opponent's physiology or Chopper's awakening type where he becomes gigantic...
It's no different from Kaido being a Mythical Dragon and thus, can manipulate fire, wind, clouds, lightning, while still having were-animal features like claws, fangs, horns, scales and a tail...
All this means is that, whatever this Nika was as a Mythical concept of old, he/she/it could do the things Luffy can in the same way Kaido can do almost everything an Azure dragon in myths can do.
Nika is not a myth we know of irl like the dragon is, it's a myth that Oda has created for his own fictional lore so we simply have to assume that whatever it was, Luffy's abilities reflect Nika's abilities in Myth.
That fact by itself already debunks the notion of toonforce, as devil fruits are based on pre-existing concepts and the name given was Nika, not Toon Force.
It still follows the rules of the world, for instance, If Gear 5 Luffy were to fall into the sea, he would drown... he's not turning water into rubber even if it's "funny" or "comedic", toonforce you say?
If Gear 5 Luffy were to be cut by a haki attack above his own defensive armament haki, he would bleed and take damage and worse if he was beheaded, he ain't taking his head and putting it back on like Tom and Jerry, toonforce where?
The fact that Gear 5th drains his life energy proves that there are rules in place for his power and a clear source, being his heartbeat.
The fact that he can't do all these things in his base proves that "A set condition" needs to be met in order for him to do whatever he does in Gear 5th, and that condition as stated by Kaido is for his body to catch up to his mind, aka devil fruit awakening. Last I checked, awakening wasn't "comedic" and neither is rapid heartbeat, where's the toonforce? It's just a transformation.
What now? Are we going to say Ichigo has toon force because bro can change the size of his sword, his whole drip and create a damn mask out of nowhere? Oh right, he isn't funny when doing it so it doesn't count.
Luffy has always been a "goofy" character who likes to be "free", so it stands to reason that if such a character awakened their devil fruit that allowed them to be "the freest they've ever been" with their heart beating like a drum to that exhilaration, then obviously he is going to do whatever he wants in such a state, hence his "goofy" fighting style.
The gags, sound effects and artstyle change has already been addressed by Surfbone so I won't add to that... I only made this comment because I felt he didn't quite go into detail when it came to the creation of constructs and matter manipulation part.
I do have to disagree on one thing, much as kuzan was able to turn seawater into ice, I feel like Luffy would be able to turn into into rubber
@@roxas13keyblade65 He would need to be touching it, and touching water zaps all a devil fruit user's energy.
If it is water in like a cup or even barrel, then sure, but sea water or any large water body, no.
He simply can't move.
Big Mom couldn't turn the volcano into her homie despite the fact that she doesn't even need to grab anything to share her soul with it, but she simply couldn't even act.
The moment Gear 5 Luffy falls into the sea, his heartbeat would return to normal forcefully, returning him to base in a fatigued state.
Kuzan can freeze water because his body itself is ice so unless he actively turns down the cold, anything his body touches, freezes. It doesn't work that way for Luffy.
But I could see Oda pulling something like that because "it's up to Luffy's imagination", so I'm not dying on that hill.
To say he falls into the water then yes he would turn back to normal but as Oda sensei has mentioned, all water afflicts any user and it has to be above their knees for them to feel week and lose their abilities. So... lez say he grabs the water as long as he is not directly in the water... possibly to do or is it still too far of a stretch?@@revenantronin8377
@@revenantronin8377 not necessarily true. oven put his hand into the ocean and was able to boil it. prometheus (a fire homie) was able to fully submerge himself into the ocean to save big mom. so sea water doesnt just turn off devil fruit abilites. also luffy wasnt touching anyone other than kaido in the fight but was able to make everyone's eyes pop out
New chapter says otherwise typed allat for no reason
This didn't age well 😂
It did, Luffy doesn't have toon force at all. The manga already explained how he able to do those things and Oda himself explain the power and the inspiration of luffy being goofy like a cartoon character. Oda just wanted gear 5 luffy to have similar humor to tom and jerry whenevr they fight and act while using his rubber awaken abilties, his abilties are only rubber and nothing more since that was the point of the nika fruit granted the user the properties of rubber while the true abiltiies is the user imagination.
👌😂😂
@@lordyoda9382source?
I don't think you read the manga brother@@lordyoda9382
@@lordyoda9382
That’s just cope
Even if luffy does have toon force if you compare him to characters like bugs bunny, Popeye,the mask,gumball,uncle granpa, SpongeBob,mickey mouse hes more on the weaker side (if he has toon force)
Let’s just call it what it is.
The push for Toon Force Luffy is because for years they had to listen to people say Ichigo or Naruto or all these others characters could beat Luffy.
It’s his Devil Fruit Awakening, and also (not towards you) but tough shit. Every fandom stans their characters just as much as the other and the One Piece fandom is no different. I’m not gonna just “let them have this one” because then we’re not arguing in good faith. Especially when arguing this way, in my opinion, disrupts the integrity the series has. All for the sake of winning Twitter arguments that supposedly bring disrespect to One Piece because it can’t beat Naruto or Bleach. Which like I said, every fandom is guilty of this, and I don’t think the OP fandom deserves any special treatment or coddling. Especially when I think they’re far worse than either of the three.
I said it’s toon force like
damn tuff bro is on denial on the comment section we op fan been saying since day 1 first it was kizaru being ftl next luffy toon force lmao yall just cant take no W
Why would I trust you when I know that you are wrong.
Imagine choosing in believing someone is wrong based on the conclusion is wrong, couldn’t be me Lol
I'm going to make a goofy sound effect while my eyes buldge out of my eye sockets and I say "AWOOGA" as I look at a Minecraft villager and use misconception to gain toon force.
I’d say luffy has it, but it’s a very limited version of it due to how stupid he is and the rules of his fruit correlating to his lifespan and stamina.
Also he is unable to warp realjty
Well…seems like ur wrong
@@zaiah1215 “seems like” isn’t an argument nor a criticism
@@surfbone You’re right, it’s not. I’m just making a statement. Not gonna argue with you when there’s clear proof of you being wrong and I’ve seen you lose other debates with people in the comments.
Once you can show me a real life example or an example in the one piece world pre g5 of rubber being turned into a metallic pair of goggles with usable glass lens, or rubber being turned into a bucket, paintbrush and literal paint, or rubber pieces being able to attach back to together after being blown apart (he literally reattached his scar to his body), or rubber giving the ability to run in the air in a cartoony way and being able to create enough friction to cause a fire to someone who’s not using or has ever used sky walk, or rubber giving the ability to grab lightning-something that can not be grabbed by rubber, or rubber giving the ability to turn someone into a literal pizza pie after being crushed, THEN, you can claim that there’s no toon force. Because as far as I’ve seen, I’ve seen cartoon characters do the things Luffy has done so far, and I’ve never seen any properties of rubber that explains the feats I listed above.
Also, this is the same Luffy who doesn’t even know the full extent of his powers. He still thinks it’s the gum gum fruit. Once he realizes the extent of his power (imagination), who knows what he’ll do then.
But, if it makes you feel better, continue to stand with your opinion. I am not arguing with you.
✌🏾
🥶💀👍🤣@@zaiah1215
Was late to premiere. 😅
But banger video as per always. Really like the flexible definition of toon force you utilized
You lost
Essay all you want, Popeye mops the floor with *everyone*
This is actually true because Popeye the sailor uses toon force all the time and he comes back from literally nothing
I think you should go to CVS pharmacy and bring me some pills
Imo even tho luffy has toon force as you said in the video not all magic users can do the same thing so even tho he has it hasn't shown to be on a level like bugs bunny,popeye.etc.So it doesn't mean he can do anything and even then we still scale people like popeye and bugs bunny so i don't see why it's different for luffy according to his meat riders despite him having a weaker manipulation of the force.
Tune for this, literally manipulating reality. That’s not what Luffy is doing… What you’re saying is true with the whole entire rubber deal, and him changing nature into rubber than all the awakening characters have to force because they’re changing the battleground into their fruits like come on dude
Bro missed the whole point💀. He can give other things the properties of rubber. That's it. That's not toon force. That's rubberization. Haki + rubberization = gear 5
@@Merakius-sol i know he doesn't have goofy am saying even tho he has cant yall read?!
@@monke4163 aaah, I see where the misunderstanding is. Tiny grammar issue, you should've said 'Even *if* luffy *had* toon force.' But no stress, I get what you were tryna say now👍
@@Merakius-sol yh
No p
I am sending this to my friend that always says Gear 5 Luffy has toon force because the statement that says the powers only limited by his imagination
I honestly think even if i was charitable and gave him toonforce, the toonforce is so low lol. Luffy fanboys are coping because they want his boy to be able to fight in more cross verse. Luffy is one of my favorite characters but i wouldn't have wanked him like others because i like his struggles in the story. Actually luffy doesn't mind losing
Personally, i like to refer to luffy's ability as toonforce with regards to the definition being "a comedic use of ones natural abilities to perform feats which are normally either impossible or unnatural". It is worth noting that i am probably entirely wrong, as the idea of toonforce, as you have stated, is entirely subjective as its activation requires comedic purposes, which differ for everyone. This idea can be extended to your example of luffy running on air to be entirely possible by him, so even if toonforce is a thing that exists, it was not a product of it. While it is worth noting that, yes, luffy can run on air without the aid of gear 5, it isnt a product of such methods, or the idea that a character can stay still midair given that the situation requires it, such as just before the final clash between luffy and kiado, where luffy stays afloat without the aid of my own definition of toonforce, it is also worth stating that this isnt a case of the use of toonforce, but representative of its use in the form, hence an exaggerated startup and follow through, to reprisent his normally unnaturally cartoonish properties. By extension, it can be said that when luffy's or anyone elses eyes pop out in response to luffy, or luffy to an opponent, it is not a product of toonforce, but its stylization is a representation of luffy's comedic nature specifically, as opposed to the others being ussop and sanji whom are simply used as a comedic gag. (Note: it could also be that this specific style of such a gag is simply these characters styles of comedic shock, and not solid proof that it is related to luffy at all). Regardless, i believe that other cases are far more representative of this definition of such an ability, such as a sudden change in style of animation for characters interacting with luffy in gear 5. This new style has never been seen, and reveals more opportunities in a battle, such as stunning kiado to perform a combo. Either that or "toonforce" is simply what is easiest to give others an idea of luffy's new abilities, and not actually what his awakening is able to do.
he has toon force, he's WACKY
Being wacky doesn't imply he had toon force, its just him being wacky with all of his df limits.
@@startkidstv7073 man is too wacky tho
@@laytonspuzzle being wacky is him being childish, remember, toon force is a cartoon character power only access to reality warping.
What about when he grabs through Kaido's eyes to escape his body, that's not how things work@@startkidstv7073
Dinosaurs lived millions of years before humans, so no dragons weren't an exaggeration of Dinosaurs but maybe an exaggeration of something like a monitor lizard
It was another example that Walt Disney used in his long line of examples, not simply stating it as fact
Get slammed by people who debunked you 🗿
Saying luffy has toon force is like saying certain jojos characters like Joseph have toon force because they can just kind of pull stuff out of nowhere
This did not age well at all LMAO
2 second into this video and the editing go crazy on this one bro!
Luffy can probably spawn out rubber out of thin air, just like how he made some star and things on Kaido's head, it cant be toon force as it would beat Gorosei immidietly cuz it would negate theyre immortality, so its probably that he can not just turn things to rubber but also make rubber
Actually yea I am gonna double down and say Majin Buu has toon force.
It's outright stated he utilizes magic more so than Ki.
Ergo his source of power is actually different than how 'normal beings' gain power.
But if his powers come from magic, then it’s not Toon Force dude. Magic is another power system that exists within Dragon Ball and Majin Buu isn’t the only user of it. So no, that doesn’t work Lol
Your attempt at biting the bullet just proves you don’t actually know what you’re talking about. Or understand the ramifications of your own arguments before you make them
@surfbone I'm drawing upon what the artists draw upon.
Majin Buu is heavily baised of a Genie. The container, and dijin refrences are apparent. Look at Disney's Alladin and tell me that Genie doesn't have toon force.
Okay that's not pertinent to Luffy. His powers are just an amalgamation of his rubber abilities and haki. Except their not. If anything it's the opposide. The hitto hitto no me grants it's user *freedom* personified.
Luffy isn't breaking the laws of physics because he's a rubber person. As you stated if he was merely doing that he'd be beholden to physics. Rather he is warping his body and surroundings to fit his desires.
Now if you don't wanna call it *toon force* that's fine. But to say Oda's intent wasn't to replicate the effect of western cartoons.
But okay still not buying it. Okay let's take Kaido. Kaido was built up as a force that Meer force could not overcome. Inspite of how much Luffy trained with Haki he wasn't even putting a dent in him.
Kaido the immovable object.
Luffy once he became Gear 5th was able to bypass Kaido's natural immunity. The story makes a point to show that what Luffy is doing isn't just getting stronger but shaping the world to his will to an extent.
Luffy the irresistible force.
It seems in your video your also doubting the existence of toon force as a concept over all. Like even asking if Tom and Jerry are using it.
But that's a silly notion. The people in the 1920's had no notion of Shonen style combat. So the toon force is, you your point, modern audiences attempting to rationalize these discrepancies.
But even if that's the case it's clear that Oda did model many of Gear 5 after these *loony* traits in early western animation would be disingenuous.
So if you have a hesitancy to call it toon force by all means call it something else it just happens to be a useful term.
But I can argue for all those older cartoons their was nothing out of the ordinary because in Tom and Jerry everyone acts like a cartoon ergo they dona actually have powers it's just the world is more silly.
However with Gear 5 the implicit statement is that even within the world the hitto hitto no MI is an aberration.
@@KrazyStargazer that first point is just terrible. Aladdin's Genie having toon force doesn't equal every single Djinn or Djinn-inspired character has it (and I should know, I have one as a main character 💀)
@primedarkking10 I was more so using it as an example. Case in point does the Genie from Alladin exhibit *toon force* powers?
He exhibits powers that Resemble American cartoons. Ergo the nomenclature is *toon force* not because it is a actual concept but because it shares similarities with other concepts.
I compare the two Genies to illustrate how they use magic on their surroundings.
First, I gotta commend you on the production quality of the video, Top notch. However, after watching the entire thing, I can’t help but feel like you’ve argued basically nothing. Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting, but your definition of toon force is basically the same as the “official” definition you showed earlier, in that it’s the ability of cartoon characters to break the laws of reality for the sake of comedy, and only for the sake of comedy. In this aspect, gear 5 almost seamlessly sits the definition: Luffy cannot break reality to do damage to his opponent, but he can break reality to make a funny joke (the goggles, the stars, etc.). Even if you don’t call it toon force, the result is the same. You kept reiterating that one must have evidence to make a claim, otherwise it should be taken at face value, but then you call out everyone’s eyes bugging out on Onigashima, the goggles, the stars, and the air running and give them convoluted explanations that have no evidence to back them up. Now, I don’t want to be that guy that points and laughs without actually making a point, so I’ll break down each of those claims.
First, the goggles and stars, since they are the most egregious examples. Yes, rubber glass does exist, but we have no evidence that Luffy can change the properties of his rubber like logia users can. The most obvious explanation in this case is “Luffy did it because gear 5 is more cartoony and making goggles is a funny gag”. When compared with the glass rubber explanation, while that is technically not impossible, it is far and away the more unintuitive option. One person in the comments compared it to Doflamingo making a perfect string clone (which did include glasses), and this is by far a more compelling piece of evidence. Still, Doflamingo’s clone was specifically stated to be made of string, and nothing has been stated about Luffy’s goggles. It has been strongly implied by the story to be cartoon physics, however, and I will get back to this more later. The same of course applies to the stars, which have no president at all, and are clearly being used to show the effects of cartoon physics. Again, I will go back to this later.
Next, the eyeball pop. You mentioned how eyes bulging out of their sockets is nothing new to One Piece, and I wholeheartedly agree. However, if you look past the concept and examine the execution, you’ll find that the eyeball popping in Wano is presented extremely differently than any other instance of the gag. Prior to gear 5, eye gags consisted of two types: the eye bulge and the separated eye pop out. In the first, the eye simply stretches out of the head without leaving its socket (Eneru, Perona, etc.), while in the second, the eye completely separates from the head, leaving a blank socket behind (falling from Skypeia). For gear 5, however, the eyes pop out of their sockets and multiply, each iteration being further from the head. This is so different from any other eye gag in the series that the most obvious interpretation is that the author is making a statement: namely, that this is an effect of gear 5. That Luffy is the one most often affected by this gag while in gear 5 is more evidence of this point. To counter the obvious, as you’ve stated, you must have supportive evidence, and you don’t really present any; instead, your argument ignores the obvious execution differences in favor of concept comparison. The same applies to Luffy’s air run. You compare it to moon walk and gear 4 flying, but that is like saying Luffy can fly because Pell does. This is another prime example of arguing the concept while ignoring the execution. Yes, gear 5, gear 4, moon walk, and Pell can all fly, but they each do so in different ways. Just because many people can fly in One Piece doesn’t mean that Luffy’s air run suddenly makes sense. Gear 4 uses propulsion to push agains the air rabidly, moon walk strikes the air so fast it kicks off it, and, well, I don’s really need to explain Pell. In this context, what does gear 5 do? It certainly isn’t moon walk, since that can only be done by quick, downward strikes; it isn’t gear 4, because his legs aren’t sucking into themselves for propulsion; and I hope to heaven it isn’t Pell because Luffy isn’t a bird. That only leaves the obvious explanation of “that’s how cartoon characters behave.” Of course, the entire argument can be simplified by actually looking at the presentation.
The spinning leg wheel is a cartoon staple gag, everyone recognizes it as such. On the same topic, cartoon characters running so fast they light stuff on fire is also a staple gag, although this is also something Luffy has been shown to do before (Punk Hazard), so it’s not necessarily a gear 5 thing. The stars and eye pops are also common cartoon gags, and, to a lesser extent, so is the goggles thing (pulling something out of thin air to suite the aesthetic of a gag). Everything in the story is pointing to how cartoony gear 5 is, and even Kaido recognizes this. To try to put a rational explanation to these effects would require, as you keep saying, compelling evidence; otherwise, it’s just cartoon physics. As for the reason why gear 5 is cartoony specifically, there is no definitive answer, but the easiest explanation is that Oda just wanted to draw is that way (as he has stated before in and SBS regarding Luffy being rubber). At the end of the day, I just don’t understand your point. You say that people, desperate for explanations, use toon force as a (for lack of a better term on my part) coping definition, and that it is more obviously explained by in-universe logic. This argument, however, is backwards! People are not saying Luffy has toon force to explain gear 5; they are saying it because it is presented as obvious by the story. Your explanations, on the other hand, bend in-universe logic, compare concepts while ignore obvious differences, and completely disregard the tone of the story. Could your ideas turn out to be true? Possibly. Would they be better than “cartoon physics”? Maybe, depending on the person. But are they the obvious explanation? Heck no, and they are not supported by compelling evidence either.
I will end this terribly long essay by saying that I am not saying all of Luffy’s powers are toon force-absolutely not. Only the gag moments that are not physically explainable without making logical stretches and assumptions are facilitated by cartoon physics. And wouldn’t you know, but that happens to be the definition of toon force,
👆✌️👌 well said
Guy got cooked in the comment section and did not respond. Lol.
@@hellodanknessmyoldfriend6101 Then you clearly didn’t read the comment section dummy
You know Surfbone, You didn't have to attack both One Piece fans and Looney Tunes Fans at the same time
What are you talking about? This changes nothing about where either series scales by saying Toon Force doesn’t exist. Please actually listen to what my arguments are and what they’re proposing. Instead of assuming that because I’m saying something isn’t as impressive as people make it out to be, doesn’t mean I’m bashing the series. In fact, I’m bashing the people coming to these dumb conclusions, which if you agree with Toon Force that includes you.
@@surfbone I not saying that they're invincible but Toon Force isn't just reality warping but limited. It's basically Cartoon Physics that user has to allow them to interact with the world around them however they see fit, usually in a comedic fashion. Most users of Toon Force users such as Disney and Looney Tune Characters can re-write the strict laws of physics in their universe to their convenience and is allowed to overwrite the laws with more lenient and much more absurd physics with much more ridiculous ones in service of hilarity. Main powers include 4th wall awareness, elasticity and body control, hammerspace, and, most important of all, light reality warping. Also, VS Battles Wiki isn't always accurate, so you have to careful when looking at their research and have to look at other sources for it. I'm not trying to fight, but I'm just saying don't believe everything that VS Battle Wiki tells you.
@@JLMaster-le4eh Again, you didn’t listen to what my arguments were, I argue that Toon Force doesn’t exist and I’ve yet to see any empirical evidence of it anywhere. It’s simply just a fan made concept that’s based on intuitive evidence.
@@surfbone That's your opinion and that's fine, but not everyone is going to agree with you on what they say and certainly not. Yes, I do believe that Gag Characters and Toon Force users aren't invincible, but they do have this ability that many people actually agree with this being a actual power. Heck, just look up Superpower Wiki and see for yourself or even watch DEATH BATTLE's Deadpool vs The Mask, Saitama vs Popeye, and Spongebob vs Super Friends Aquaman, and if you still don't believe it, then that's fine but don't act like you know everything about fiction, alright buddy.
Edit: I'll admit that Gear 5 not having Toon Force does actually make sense, but even if he does, it's more likely to be Gag Manga Toon Force which is similar Toon Force but is more suited for Gag Characters, which Luffy is not.
@@surfbonetoon force is also called cartoon physics. If cartoon physics doesn't exist what do you call rubber hose animation? It's based off of the physics of the cartoon. This is the most basic way I can put it.
well this aged like milk 😂
@@alexloera4901 glad you remembered this video enough to comment this 😊
ToonForce is ToonForce when you can see that they are literally identical.
21:11 isnt that the scene where luffy unfatigues himself? this kinda contradict your argument
He's not unfatiguing himself, manga is read from right to left, not left to right like comics
@@ButtonZBruh no i mean the scene after that where luffy goes "beat loudly, heartbeat!" and gets back to gear 5
@@nar1768 going back into gear 5 doesn't mean he was unfatiguing himself, that fact that he got fatigued at all shows that he has limits while in the form
I know what power of gear 5 Luffy have
He has rubber transmutation he can transform matter and objects including living beings into rubber
And let me explain the difference between toon Force and rubber transmutation
. Rubber transmutation the user can transform matter and objects including living beings into rubber
. Toon Force the user possess the ability to impose the laws and physics of cartoons in to reality essentially allowing them to warp the world around them to however see fit usually in a comedic way
The most common powers of toon Force is fourth wall awareness impossible body control Hammer space and creating objects out of nowhere
Examples of toon Force users OG Mickey mouse characters OG Looney tunes Scooby-Doo of 1969 Popeye the sailor Man essentially any characters in old cartoons if Luffy can't display any of these abilities then he don't have toon Force
Wrong Wrong!!! It's literally the definition of Toon but with rubber .Its called Rubberhose animation and its literally in every cartoon like tom and cherry ,popaya..and luffy rubber doesn't act like real rubber but it applies the basic principles of not l
@@Anticap17 Not sure if this was meant to be taken seriously but rubber hose animation and Toon Force aren’t the same thing. If that were the case Spinel from Steven Universe would have toon force. Also Kaido noted that even in the snakeman form Luffy wasn’t moving the same way normal rubber does (this was shown in the video btw 👀).
Conjures a bat and hat in the new chapter outta nowhere delete this