@@corydawson5980 Oh god. Cultists of any kind in the water are a migraine waiting to happen. Also, fun fact: set a Fanatic, Zealot or Acolyte on fire and lead them to water before they die, and they'll become shotgun Cultists without changing robe colors.
@@DinnerForkTongue I was very tempted to say just this. They have like 0 frame reaction times. They're so fast you generally just have to know where they are and kill them around the corner if you wish to avoid taking some damage. Bastards
FUN FACT: Doom (1993) was possibly the first major game to include multiple internet memes. IDSPISPOPD and Nightmare difficulty were both added as a direct response to comments from internet posters on Doom message boards.
Well i mean i'm not a big fan of pizza crust (except when having been microwaved after being refrigerated, oddly specific i know but i enjoy it better that way) But i do love leaving a room full of bullets, blood and corpses Sadly Nightmare does not allow the corpses part
the spider mastermind is kind of like the king in chess. it might be behind everything, it might be the most important piece to capture, but on its own it is absolute shit.
@@XenFPV I was wrong. King can capture Queen IF Queen comes within range and is unsupported. I don't find it very likely scenario. Every piece can threaten King and that includes pawns as well.
About the part that Nightmare being a joke, rumor has it that Romero had it added in when someone letter mailed the Id team that Ultra-Violence was too easy
I was not even slightly surprised about chainguner being on top. Chainguner is literally Satan incarnated, it's like the final boss of original doom but with shrinked hitbox at least 50 times and placed everywhere by 50 pieces per map.
MaxRideWizardLord Actual Satan and second-in-command Hell cyborg with infinite ammo chaingun: F tier Fat zombified human slob with infinite ammo chaingun: SS tier
Kinda ironic how the bosses that control the demons and are the big bad dudes with what looks like rather serious weaponry are the least threatening out of all demons.
Nightmare! does change things a lot. Shotgunners and Zombiemen are a lot less threatening when they don't shoot you relentlessly as soon as they can see you, Cacodemon projectiles are a lot slower, Pinkies are hilariously easy to avoid, Lost Souls take their time before charging you, and so on. Plus there's the fact that many of the encounters are easier without respawning because you can take your time sniping monsters from a safer position.
It's the way Nightmare! difficulty is set. Hitscanners aren't as threatening on Ultra-Violence because they (usually) don't start opening fire on you the moment they see your ass.
You have to design the area around her for sure. You have to design your arena too to also either have BFG o and or prevent the player getting to very close range
I've never had an issue with the Spider Mastermind, at least on Hurt Me Plenty. They take so long to realize you're there that you can easily just keep some map geometry between them and yourself and peek out to take shots.
“These demons will make you cosplay like a piece of Swiss cheese.” Is probably the most intense quote from anything related to doom Of course it’s underneath “rip and tear until it is done”
An excellent structure, a detailed methodology and overall an awesome video! Thank you! Could not agree more with the tier list. Personally I hate arch-viles the most, but it's only due to Plutonia experiment :)
@@DinnerForkTongue Luckily heretic gargoyles bug and get stuck in place more often than not on 5th difficulty, and nothing respawns so it isn't really a comparison to doom.
@@okie9025 I actually don't get corrected for the use of "your" or "you're" around %90 of the time. I guess this time I was being kinda stupid with my typing. I'll go and change it.
@@joseph_rolli Because they already have a firing pattern where most of their projectiles are going to go around you when you're fully visible in an attempt to limit your dodging space. If you pick up a PI, they might miss entirely or they might increase projectiles headed straight towards you. In other words, their pattern that's already hard to read becomes even more unpredictable.
Yup. High level Doom play is all about learning and predicting the pattern/behavior of the enemies. Partial invisibility adds an element of randomness which is the absolute last thing you want.
Explains why Dead Simple annoys the hell out of me, I always instinctively pick up the Partial Invisibility, now I know why I tended to catch fireballs with my face so often. I guess I'll save them if absolutely necessary for the Arachnotrons from now on.
Tier SS: [PLUTONIA EXPERIMENT INSTENSIFIES] Jokes aside, this was a great analytic video! I don't mind you being gone for a few days just because this video is a heck of a worth it!
Plutonia Experiment Tier list - Rank FU - Chaingunner Rank SS - Arch Vile, Revenent Rank S - Shotgunner, Mancubus, Cacodemon Rank A - Baron of Hell, Hell Knight, Pinkies, Specters Rank B - Pain Elemental, Lost Soul Rank C - Arachnotron, Cyberdemon Rank D - Imp, Gunner Rank F - Spider Mastermind, SS, Icon of Sin (Pretty sure the SS doesn't even show up in Plutonia). Reasons? Chaingunners are in every map (except Map 11), and are almost always positioned in places to catch the player off guard; they always come in groups and can shred your health away faster then you can blink sometimes. Pretty sure there are more Chaingunners in Plutonia then there are Imps in standard Doom. And due to Plutonia's backtrack like nature; you have to deal with them, CONSTANTLY. Arch Viles and Revenents are insanely common; and often appear in large groups in Plutonia; leading to a lot of problems with taking them on directly. Revenent missiles will flood the screen, dealing massive damage; and the Arch Viles will get to work reviving all the monsters you killed; and dish out hefty burst damage that you usually can't avoid (Plutonia likes Arch Vile encounters with no cover). Shotgunners are irritatingly placed; often in situations where avoiding them is almost impossible; and taking them out first is usually a non-option; so you have to deal with them. Mancubus and Cacodemons are both tanky, dish out damage; and are almost always placed at chokepoints; where the respawning enemies will constantly make your life a living hell. Barons and Hell Knights often appear in large groups in Plutonia, making their encounters much more dangerous then before; usually forcing you to dodge their projectiles like crazy. Pinkies and Specters are both A Rank because they aren't as common in Plutonia; though when they are used; getting past them is very irritating. Pain Elementals often come in pairs; and fill the area with Lost Souls really quickly. But once killed they stay dead; so that is at least a bonus. While annoying; they are probably one of the least of your worries in Plutonia. Arachnotrons are usually placed in good spots; but their large hitboxs make them easy to deal with (Though they can block you if you're not careful); but they are usually positioned out of your way. While the Cyberdemon is more common then he was in Doom 2; he's still fairly easy to deal with as long as you take note of where he is and how he's positioned in the stages. You don't HAVE to do Cyberden or Go2It so these encounters don't effect him; he also doesn't revive. Imps are not commonly found; but are usually just there to be cannon fodder, so their impact isn't as well seen. Gunners are also insanely rare; in fact they basically have been replaced with the Chaingunners entirely. The others are Rank F due to the low encounter rate, and ease of handling.
@@Kohchu "Rank FU" Sounds about right because nothing says a big "F*CK YOU" to your run like a wall lowering and then 6 Chaingunners turning you into bloody ribbons within 2 seconds.
When I saw Pain Elemental in Doom Eternal trailer: NOOO GOD PLEASE NO! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! At least Glory kill is very fitting, just so satisfying
Revenant and chaingunner presentation Made me laugh hard, i'm loving the fact of peter being added to the videos, Nice commenting duo there. Keep it up decino, as always, loving your videos.
Can you make a video on what Doom sourceports lack compared to vanilla Doom? And also what are the differences between Doom 1 and Doom 2 engines if there are any?
There are no differences as it's the same engine. Doom II features maps that are more complex and much larger but that's only because the developers were more familiar with the engine by that point. Doom 64 is also based on the same engine. It's pretty much a copy & paste job.
@@leegsy I suppose the only thing you could say is that earlier versions of each "vanilla DOS" engine had lower linedef and visplane etc. limits, which were upped in the later releases up to 1.9. I can't remember the exact specifics, but I do remember some more complex PWADs had a minimum DooM version as a result.
An explanation I pulled from Game FAQs to help answer the question of Cyberdemon vs Spider Mastermind: Main factors are range, height differences, and any possible cover. Secondary factors are down to how frequently either enemy enters its pain states and/or even bothers to attack. A feature which automatically gives the Spider Mastermind something of an advantage is the fact that it is resistant to rockets; it will only take impact damage from a direct hit, and is unaffected by any explosions; even the 'splash damage' from a direct hit has no effect. Assuming the terrain is perfectly flat with no cover, at a fixed range: At longer ranges, Cyberdemons will always win; a Spider Mastermind just locks on and fires like there's no tomorrow, in spite of being too far away to be effective. It leaves itself open to just take a string of rockets while missing with most (if not all) of its own shots. Medium range is a toss-up; Spider Masterminds once again just sit still and blaze away, but the closer proximity guarantees a higher successful hit ratio. In turn this causes a Cyberdemon to be interrupted via pain states, something which works against it. Short range is, more often than not, a pushover for the Spider Mastermind. Most hitscans will connect, leaving the Cyberdemon with little to no chance of retaliating successfully.
Plutonia was intended to be a real ballbuster by design, so I mean they had to make frivolous use of chaingunners, to the point of hidden archies constantly rezzing them on one or two maps. Their approach to difficulty was that they'd revise an encounter or even large parts of a level if they found it wasn't giving them a tough enough time on Ultra-Violence. Some of the encounters come off a bit cheap this way, but that was the plan.
for me Chaingunners, Shotgun guys, Former Humans, Pain elementals, and Lost souls are generally the most annoying enemies to deal with on nightmare. especially the hitscanner zombie type enemies... they are the reason I can't beat nightmare mode saveless. They all respawn too fast, and drain my health more than any other demon combined on nightmare.
One of my fonder memories of Doom II is watching my Dad play the Playstation version. Granted, he was disappointed in how they didn't have as many secrets as other versions, but he still thoroughly enjoyed kicking ass. He had a few nicknames for the demons, too. Imps were "crinkle-crinks" due to the noise they made. Pinkies were "bulls". Specters were "invisi-bulls" because Dad jokes. I think the Barons and Cyberdemons were just "minotaurs" and "cooler minotaurs", but it's been awhile XD
To not just repeat my endless praise for those videos, I really appreciate time and effort put into montage, clear presentation, clear sound of your voice(s) and last but not least, the well-made subtitles.
And things like this are why I stick to "Hurt me plenty." Edit: Ok I've actually completed ultra violence at this point on episodes 1-3 but still screw nightmare Edit 2: I've almost completed doom 2 on ultra-violence. : ) Edit 3: Either I am still pathetic or the execution of the Icon of wall is just bad, but I completed doom 2 on ultra-violence with the exception of map 32 and map 30.
I once played a troll mod that changed stuff in the original levels. The cyberdemon was replaced with a chaingunner with equal health as the cyberdemon... Yikes!
Pain Elementals in Doom 64 are significantly worse, because they have 2 mouths this time which can spawn 2 lost souls and the lost souls in Doom 64 are much faster and deal more damage.
Decino:There actually aren't that many hell knight encounters in doom 2 that are considered dangerous Doom 2 no rest for the living:well yes but actually no
Where is the hanging commander keen???? P.s: anyone stating that chaingunner isn't the most deadly foe in nightmare mode will reveal he hasn't played vanilla DooM.
Yea I'd agree on chaingunners as SS even on non-nightmare... they're the most intimidating thing in Gantlet and never forget the death room on map09... sure arch-viles are irritating and make you duck behind walls, and Cyberdemons are nasty as hell when you actually fight them, but Chaingunners are normally the ones killing you even when you're prepared just because there are too many hitscan bullets to avoid.
Good news, Switch ports of Doom 1 and 2 patched in fast monsters. Now you can get wrecked by turbo monsters on the go as you try and avoid chaingunners why trying to stay calm in public.....or at least while taking a dump. That aside this is THE video that not only got me into this channel but awoke my love of Doom after not playing for over 15 years. Cant thank you enough.
I was having such a shitty night due to a lot of problems but the Wolfenstein "mein leben!" joke made me laugh for the entire rest of the video! T'was so good I'm going to sub right now.
Everyone: *Legit talking about the demons and strats/nightmare memes* Me: 11:14 *DEEP INHALE.... SLAPS A TABLE!* FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SAID CACODEMONS ARE CUTE!!!!
Cacodemons are my favorite demons in DOOM. If there was DOOM merch, I think Cacodemons would make the best most comfy pillows ever, espeically giant ones! And if they made the eye on them glow like when they spit their firealls would be so awesome too!
Good work guys, even though I don't do speed runs, I think it's interesting to watch and know where monsters stand for the brave fools who choose to do these runs.
F tier: Spider Mastermind, Icon of Sin. D tier: Hell Knight, SS trooper. C tier: Imp, Cyberdemon, Arachnotron, Archvile, Pinky. B tier: Zombieman, Hell Baron, Mancubus, Spectre. A tier: Shotgunner, Revenant, Cacodemon. S tier: Pain Elemental, Lost Soul. SS Tier: Chaingunner.
well, when youre trash at this game like i am, all enemies are tier SS. maybe the chaingunners should have their own tier if you apply frustration and keyboard-slamming factor corrections
I kinda assumed the monsters with guns that hit you instantly and come in plentifull numbers would dominate the list. As a kid they actually annoyed me the most as well just simply because I couldn’t dodge their attacks like every other monster in the game that throws a fireball you can see coming and dodge.
I'd really love to see a tierlist for the enemies based on every doom wad you've ever played. Or should I more put it like... a tier list based on the POTENTIAL of each monster. From what I've seen after watching a lot of your video playthroughs of different wads, archviles and revenants seem to be the most threatening.
Chaingunners are snipers who can miss and never stop shouting when you in their sight! Absolutely brutal but hey I love them because they present challenges. I’m not sure if they intended them to be such pains in the ass, but the mods know this and put them in far and hard places to get them kudos!!
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm completely unsurprised that chaingunners are SS tier. Most intense hitscanners ever, even on lower difficulties.
Blood's Fanatics are worse. So much worse.
@@corydawson5980
Oh god. Cultists of any kind in the water are a migraine waiting to happen.
Also, fun fact: set a Fanatic, Zealot or Acolyte on fire and lead them to water before they die, and they'll become shotgun Cultists without changing robe colors.
Russian Overkill.
Still Died to them.
Chaingunners are worse than Arch-Viles. Change my mind.
@@DinnerForkTongue I was very tempted to say just this. They have like 0 frame reaction times. They're so fast you generally just have to know where they are and kill them around the corner if you wish to avoid taking some damage. Bastards
FUN FACT: Doom (1993) was possibly the first major game to include multiple internet memes. IDSPISPOPD and Nightmare difficulty were both added as a direct response to comments from internet posters on Doom message boards.
I believe they were called "in-jokes" back then. #realboomerDOOMerhours
Wait what does IDSPISPOPD mean
@Mialisus >Insider -jobs-
based
@Mastema 2004? No. 1998.
@r33mote 1980s, 2004 had many memes, you were probably just too little or too old at the time
"Archviles are kinda rare in doom 2."
*laughs in plutonia*
*cries in Hell Revealed*
*Laughs in Vinesauce Joel WADS*
*Cries in Archvile Maze*
*_Flashbacks of Archvile maze intensifies_*
#hellrevealedIIgang
What Doomguy should’ve said in Doom Eternal:
*”The chaingunners..they are everywhere..”*
Imps shotgunners zombie mans
Unfortunately, there are none.
@@vidyabatter yet
@Wah Time id-eas
Chaingunner zombies for doom 6
Now the same with Plutonia
Tier F: Every other monster.
Tier SS: Chaingunner.
No. Revenants are SS too.
@@DinnerForkTongue More like SSSSS tier.
FG47 chaingunner is sssssssssssssss tier
Tier F: Rest of monsters
Tier S: Arch-Viles (The Arch-Vile Maze is proof) and Revenants
Tier SS: Chaingunners and their impeccable sniping skills.
No the revenant in doot form is ssssssssssss++++++++++++++++
Leaving a room with demons is like not eating the crust of the pizza
Same as finishing a map without 100% kills.
Yeah but on nightmare difficulty the cheesy part of the pizza respawns over and over, you don't wanna get too full, do you?
Well i mean i'm not a big fan of pizza crust (except when having been microwaved after being refrigerated, oddly specific i know but i enjoy it better that way)
But i do love leaving a room full of bullets, blood and corpses
Sadly Nightmare does not allow the corpses part
That's another reason why Ultra-Violence is the best difficulty. It's intense and still lets you litter the level with bodies.
@@spartanwar1185 The microwaved crust is actually gorgeous :)
Therapist: Cacodemon with chaingun doesn't exist, it can't hurt you
Cacodemon with chaingun: 12:08
this is VERY underrated comment!
Cacogunner
@@aleksandrk2814 a very under rated comment indeed
he even got the smug look like he's going "hehe boi"
I love this comment way too much
Fun fact: The Chaingunners' official name is Heavy Weapons Dude which, alongside their appearance, inspired Heavy Weapons Guy from TF2
I didn't know it costed 400,000 to fire it for 12 seconds.
They are both similar to the fact that when there's one, it's okay, when there are 4 HEAVIES your hp does a magic trick and disappears
@@thatguystar817 Wanna see a magic trick? PRESTO! Yer dead!
@@BlazingShadowSword "HAH! You are dead! No big surprise!"
the spider mastermind is kind of like the king in chess.
it might be behind everything, it might be the most important piece to capture, but on its own it is absolute shit.
King is never captured and it can capture any other piece but Queen and other King.
@@vksasdgaming9472 But it's slow and every other piece except pawn can threaten a king.
@@XenFPV I was wrong. King can capture Queen IF Queen comes within range and is unsupported. I don't find it very likely scenario. Every piece can threaten King and that includes pawns as well.
The queen is the cyberdemon
Queen: Cyberdemon
King: Mastermind
Rook: Arch vile, baron of hell, pain elemental.
Knight: Hell knight, revenant, arachnotron
Bishop: Cacodemon, pinky, spectre
Pawn: zombieman, shotgunner, heavy weapon dudes, Imps, lost souls, wolfenstein nazi.
Me: Boy I do love doom!
Chaingunners: no
no
Just no
yea
That's funny because no
y’know I actually realized the frickin chain gunner wasn’t in doom eternal
It was great fun working on this together!
I challenge anyone watching this video to try and beat MAP22 on Nightmare!, even with saves. Good luck!
You and decino are both good fucken doom content creators, keep up the good work bois
About the part that Nightmare being a joke, rumor has it that Romero had it added in when someone letter mailed the Id team that Ultra-Violence was too easy
I'm happy beating hell revealed on ultra violence, no way I'm beating doom 2 on nightmare
I can barely go through that level on Ultra Violence
Pistol start is insane, i'll try that. No saves. I love how there is a difficult task you must solve, since each try is not a lot of time.
I was not even slightly surprised about chainguner being on top. Chainguner is literally Satan incarnated, it's like the final boss of original doom but with shrinked hitbox at least 50 times and placed everywhere by 50 pieces per map.
MaxRideWizardLord Actual Satan and second-in-command Hell cyborg with infinite ammo chaingun: F tier
Fat zombified human slob with infinite ammo chaingun: SS tier
basically, take doomguy's chaingun aspect, and multiply times 50 on every map. since the former humans are evil doomguys.
*Sees scene from "Imp Encounter"*
Welp, time to go back to the therapist
Can't spell therapist without 'the rapist'
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine .Terry?
*screams*
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine Unspoken rule No.1: No hDoom.
One Doomed Spacemarine that’s one doomed space marine.
Demons: we are the strongests on the game, we literally came from hell!
Former Humans: Hold our beers...
basically, the demon doomguy clones en masse.
Claws, teeth and fireballs are all well and good- but they can't come close to bullets.
Teeth and claws vs lead and more lead
Do former humans even drink beer anymore? Who knows what they do between runs
@@dirkkrohn1907 Play doom
Me, testing my doom maps on Nightmare: “Have you anything to say to your creator, before you strike him down?”
The 50 chain gunners in one room: “No.”
I see that you are a sadist with your levels
JAJAJAJAJAJA
Won't they teamkill each other? Chaingunners are almost as notorious for their friendly fire as for their unfriendly fire.
@@Jurgen123445 The thing with chaingunners is that even when infighting they fire shots so wildly they still mess you up
@@Moleoflands makes sense, imprecision goes both ways
please turn that chaingunner red eyes thing into a clip for the memes.
When that happened it make me scared
Kinda ironic how the bosses that control the demons and are the big bad dudes with what looks like rather serious weaponry are the least threatening out of all demons.
As it's said in Brazil, "he's big but he ain't two".
Nightmare! does change things a lot. Shotgunners and Zombiemen are a lot less threatening when they don't shoot you relentlessly as soon as they can see you, Cacodemon projectiles are a lot slower, Pinkies are hilariously easy to avoid, Lost Souls take their time before charging you, and so on. Plus there's the fact that many of the encounters are easier without respawning because you can take your time sniping monsters from a safer position.
Shotgun baldies are legit and appropriately nightmarish on Nightmare
This list encapsulates the threat from the entire species. So it stands to reason that more numerous species will be a larger threat than rarer ones.
It's the way Nightmare! difficulty is set. Hitscanners aren't as threatening on Ultra-Violence because they (usually) don't start opening fire on you the moment they see your ass.
Hitscanners: The Pinnacle of Perforating of your body and brain
At least it's not Capstone
I find "Miss Tier F" is basically Tier F in most user maps as well. Many times she simply aggros everyone around her and dies to infighting.
You have to design the area around her for sure. You have to design your arena too to also either have BFG o and or prevent the player getting to very close range
That's one reason why user made maps suck..
I've never had an issue with the Spider Mastermind, at least on Hurt Me Plenty. They take so long to realize you're there that you can easily just keep some map geometry between them and yourself and peek out to take shots.
“These demons will make you cosplay like a piece of Swiss cheese.” Is probably the most intense quote from anything related to doom
Of course it’s underneath “rip and tear until it is done”
Сommander Keen for SSS tier
Y e s
SSSSS tier doot Revanant
Zero Master is what then?
You know he is Doom Guy relative
@@sometffurry SSSSSSSSSSSSS*
Every time decino refers to Cacodemons as "tomatoes", an angel gets their wings. ;)
Fuzzy Skinner What about calling Pain Elementals “meatballs”?
@@CarbonRollerCaco :D
@@fzysknr in his recent Eviternity playthrough he gets a Caco squished and calls it tomato sauce. I died
I call Cacodemons Murderous Meatballs, and Pain Elementals are Hellish Hamburgers.
@@CarbonRollerCaco That causes a demon to teleport directly in front of doom guy as he pulls the trigger on the super shotgun.
Spider Mastermind: worse machine gun enemy in doom
Chain Gunner: the most dangerous machine gun using enemy in the game
Holy moly
its reversed in the newer games lol
An excellent structure, a detailed methodology and overall an awesome video! Thank you!
Could not agree more with the tier list.
Personally I hate arch-viles the most, but it's only due to Plutonia experiment :)
Wait hold up...
As im still playing Master Levels...The Plutonia experiment is the next station
Pluto is very bad. Especially hidden archies with chaingunners x(
That stare on chaingunner's eyes..
Chaingunners: We're about to ruin this man's entire run.
Lost Souls would be brutal if they could respawn, they're already so fast.
And now I hear Heretic's gargoyles laughing in the distance.
@@DinnerForkTongue Luckily heretic gargoyles bug and get stuck in place more often than not on 5th difficulty, and nothing respawns so it isn't really a comparison to doom.
@@CRuduxypegg
Unless you set the "Monsters respawn" CVAR to 1. Certain ports like ZDoom allow it.
If only the wall spawner made it into the actual Doom
@@DinnerForkTongue yes but that's not part of heretic's 5th skill level :P. I don't even want to imagine D'sparils map with respawn on.
Surprised and happy to see Caco that high. And heavy weapon dude laughs in Plutonian, they are a real hell
14:30 I laughed when I realized you looped intro to the song to represent the monotony of dying over and over :P
Nobody:
Chain gunners: Y O U R F R E E T R I A L O F E X I S T I N G H A S E N D E D
T U R B O
@@okie9025 I actually don't get corrected for the use of "your" or "you're" around %90 of the time. I guess this time I was being kinda stupid with my typing. I'll go and change it.
chain gunners: *you're exist no more*
Not funny
Oof Yeet *Didn't laugh
I liked the part where the skeleton says *"AAAAAAAAA"* and then the chain Gunner goes *BABABABABABABAABABBABABA*
8:18 You. Don't. *EVER* pick up a partial invisibility against a Mancubus. HUGE no-no!
ESFAndy011 why
@@joseph_rolli Because they already have a firing pattern where most of their projectiles are going to go around you when you're fully visible in an attempt to limit your dodging space. If you pick up a PI, they might miss entirely or they might increase projectiles headed straight towards you. In other words, their pattern that's already hard to read becomes even more unpredictable.
Yup. High level Doom play is all about learning and predicting the pattern/behavior of the enemies. Partial invisibility adds an element of randomness which is the absolute last thing you want.
Explains why Dead Simple annoys the hell out of me, I always instinctively pick up the Partial Invisibility, now I know why I tended to catch fireballs with my face so often. I guess I'll save them if absolutely necessary for the Arachnotrons from now on.
PI good against hitscans,but yeah,not against projectiles
Chaingunner: SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND
my name is heavy weapons guy
@@avalonpage5985 and this is my weapon
Avalon Page I mean, the chaingunner’s actual name (according to the gallery after Icon of Sin) is named Heavy Weapons Dude
Me, with a BFG9000: nope
@@Glsmakgn She weighs 150 kilograms and fires 200 dollar custom-tooled cartridges at 10,000 rounds per _minute._
There can be only one top boi, and of course it's the hitscanning bastard.
But in the bottom? The other hitscanning bastard.
Παναγιωτης Κούσης Wouldn’t it be “the hitscanning bitch”? SM’s female. zOMG DOOM IZ SEXIZT
I think we should use chaingunners to raid area 51
Then it’ll be Plutonia 2
This maybe late but they'll be on their side so up have to do infighting
Use nightmare difficulty, they respawn
*BuT ChAiNgUnNeRs ArEnT ReAl*
If we could just get a fuckton of archviles and chaingunners we could overthrow the world government
Tier SS: [PLUTONIA EXPERIMENT INSTENSIFIES]
Jokes aside, this was a great analytic video! I don't mind you being gone for a few days just because this video is a heck of a worth it!
You couldn't pay me enough to play TNT or Plutonia on Nightmare.
@@PrinceSilvermane Aren't those official fan packs?
Plutonia Experiment Tier list -
Rank FU - Chaingunner
Rank SS - Arch Vile, Revenent
Rank S - Shotgunner, Mancubus, Cacodemon
Rank A - Baron of Hell, Hell Knight, Pinkies, Specters
Rank B - Pain Elemental, Lost Soul
Rank C - Arachnotron, Cyberdemon
Rank D - Imp, Gunner
Rank F - Spider Mastermind, SS, Icon of Sin (Pretty sure the SS doesn't even show up in Plutonia).
Reasons? Chaingunners are in every map (except Map 11), and are almost always positioned in places to catch the player off guard; they always come in groups and can shred your health away faster then you can blink sometimes. Pretty sure there are more Chaingunners in Plutonia then there are Imps in standard Doom. And due to Plutonia's backtrack like nature; you have to deal with them, CONSTANTLY.
Arch Viles and Revenents are insanely common; and often appear in large groups in Plutonia; leading to a lot of problems with taking them on directly. Revenent missiles will flood the screen, dealing massive damage; and the Arch Viles will get to work reviving all the monsters you killed; and dish out hefty burst damage that you usually can't avoid (Plutonia likes Arch Vile encounters with no cover).
Shotgunners are irritatingly placed; often in situations where avoiding them is almost impossible; and taking them out first is usually a non-option; so you have to deal with them. Mancubus and Cacodemons are both tanky, dish out damage; and are almost always placed at chokepoints; where the respawning enemies will constantly make your life a living hell.
Barons and Hell Knights often appear in large groups in Plutonia, making their encounters much more dangerous then before; usually forcing you to dodge their projectiles like crazy. Pinkies and Specters are both A Rank because they aren't as common in Plutonia; though when they are used; getting past them is very irritating.
Pain Elementals often come in pairs; and fill the area with Lost Souls really quickly. But once killed they stay dead; so that is at least a bonus. While annoying; they are probably one of the least of your worries in Plutonia.
Arachnotrons are usually placed in good spots; but their large hitboxs make them easy to deal with (Though they can block you if you're not careful); but they are usually positioned out of your way. While the Cyberdemon is more common then he was in Doom 2; he's still fairly easy to deal with as long as you take note of where he is and how he's positioned in the stages. You don't HAVE to do Cyberden or Go2It so these encounters don't effect him; he also doesn't revive.
Imps are not commonly found; but are usually just there to be cannon fodder, so their impact isn't as well seen. Gunners are also insanely rare; in fact they basically have been replaced with the Chaingunners entirely.
The others are Rank F due to the low encounter rate, and ease of handling.
@@Kohchu "Rank FU"
Sounds about right because nothing says a big "F*CK YOU" to your run like a wall lowering and then 6 Chaingunners turning you into bloody ribbons within 2 seconds.
When I saw Pain Elemental in Doom Eternal trailer:
NOOO GOD PLEASE NO! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
At least Glory kill is very fitting, just so satisfying
Revenant and chaingunner presentation Made me laugh hard, i'm loving the fact of peter being added to the videos, Nice commenting duo there. Keep it up decino, as always, loving your videos.
ретер ргиффин
@@xynxyebbln6801
Anuuu cheeki breeki i v damke!
Doomguy: *exists*
NM Chaingunner: *_"I diagnose you with dead."_*
5:11 - I'm not gay, but that Cyberdemon is pretty *THICC*
Doomguy is really liking that a$$.
Go play HDoom if that's what you think
true
@@annihilator247x no
Clap it
Clap it NOW (//❍/ω/❍//)
Can you make a video on what Doom sourceports lack compared to vanilla Doom? And also what are the differences between Doom 1 and Doom 2 engines if there are any?
There are no differences as it's the same engine. Doom II features maps that are more complex and much larger but that's only because the developers were more familiar with the engine by that point.
Doom 64 is also based on the same engine. It's pretty much a copy & paste job.
@@leegsy I suppose the only thing you could say is that earlier versions of each "vanilla DOS" engine had lower linedef and visplane etc. limits, which were upped in the later releases up to 1.9. I can't remember the exact specifics, but I do remember some more complex PWADs had a minimum DooM version as a result.
Doom 1 (not Ultimate Doom) didn't have keycard-activated switches as far as I know.
@@decino Ah yeah, there's some different types of linedefs between DooM 1 & 2, like fast doors. Good point.
Vanilla Doom has some exploitable bugs that source ports remove.
It’d be neat to have an engine mod that shows where everyone died on each map alá Mario Maker
Also ala Doom 2016, perhaps?
I don’t know if pc has this but on ps4 I can see the bodies from other players
@@budge3035 PC does indeed have this feature, but it's exclusive to the Ultra Nightmare difficulty.
Just be pile in front of the chaingunners
According to Doom Wiki, there are 27(!) Spectres in Map19 - I imagine most of them are in the outskirts area.
Checked in editor, the answer is 25. Jeez.
An explanation I pulled from Game FAQs to help answer the question of Cyberdemon vs Spider Mastermind:
Main factors are range, height differences, and any possible cover.
Secondary factors are down to how frequently either enemy enters its pain states and/or even bothers to attack.
A feature which automatically gives the Spider Mastermind something of an advantage is the fact that it is resistant to rockets; it will only take impact damage from a direct hit, and is unaffected by any explosions; even the 'splash damage' from a direct hit has no effect.
Assuming the terrain is perfectly flat with no cover, at a fixed range:
At longer ranges, Cyberdemons will always win; a Spider Mastermind just locks on and fires like there's no tomorrow, in spite of being too far away to be effective. It leaves itself open to just take a string of rockets while missing with most (if not all) of its own shots.
Medium range is a toss-up; Spider Masterminds once again just sit still and blaze away, but the closer proximity guarantees a higher successful hit ratio. In turn this causes a Cyberdemon to be interrupted via pain states, something which works against it.
Short range is, more often than not, a pushover for the Spider Mastermind. Most hitscans will connect, leaving the Cyberdemon with little to no chance of retaliating successfully.
Not gonna lie that "AAAAHHHH" jpg when the revenant was revealed got me pretty good.
...You could activate that crusher on m6 before killing the spider mastermind?
Oh my god I feel so stupid now.
Ahh yes the real nazi's of the video game world, Chaingunners. Also, the fetish dreams of the Casili brothers.
Plutonia was intended to be a real ballbuster by design, so I mean they had to make frivolous use of chaingunners, to the point of hidden archies constantly rezzing them on one or two maps.
Their approach to difficulty was that they'd revise an encounter or even large parts of a level if they found it wasn't giving them a tough enough time on Ultra-Violence.
Some of the encounters come off a bit cheap this way, but that was the plan.
The invisible drillers in Descent were probably SS tier too.
🙋♀️
What about the actual Doom 2 Nazis? They're basically chaingunner imps.
In all reality, they are reskinned chaingunners.
@@I_Punch_Demons yes..I said that
decino and Peter "you technically only need 1% health" Slayer teaming up. what a time to be alive.
You made a minor mistake in the video. You ranked Lost Souls as S tier, but labeled them as A tier as you showcase them.
12:49
Wow, didn't even realize that.
Ye I noticed
4:42 when you killed all of the barons and said I am good
But you forgot the cyberdemon
for me Chaingunners, Shotgun guys, Former Humans, Pain elementals, and Lost souls are generally the most annoying enemies to deal with on nightmare.
especially the hitscanner zombie type enemies... they are the reason I can't beat nightmare mode saveless.
They all respawn too fast, and drain my health more than any other demon combined on nightmare.
6:21 - *BARNEY, NOOOOO!* 🤣
I love that this made it into the video.
The reveals feel very Pokédex-y. Love it! :3
1:26 7:43
Intro - 00:00
Tier F - 01:06
Tier D - 02:59
Tier C - 03:40
Tier B - 06:57
Tier A - 09:17
Tier S - 12:22
Tier SS - 13:26
Conclusion - 14:52
One of my fonder memories of Doom II is watching my Dad play the Playstation version.
Granted, he was disappointed in how they didn't have as many secrets as other versions, but he still thoroughly enjoyed kicking ass.
He had a few nicknames for the demons, too. Imps were "crinkle-crinks" due to the noise they made. Pinkies were "bulls". Specters were "invisi-bulls" because Dad jokes. I think the Barons and Cyberdemons were just "minotaurs" and "cooler minotaurs", but it's been awhile XD
To not just repeat my endless praise for those videos, I really appreciate time and effort put into montage, clear presentation, clear sound of your voice(s) and last but not least, the well-made subtitles.
9:42 They made the same shutter in Doom3 - maybe as a reference?
I was like - hey, stop, you know that thing, just in another game.
I'm gonna go ahead right now and say the SS tier belongs to the Wolfenstein Nazi
Nailed it :P
@Absolute Zero Didn't capitalize "Leben" smh :P
schutzstaffel!
Mein Leben is a lie then?
5:10 damn the cyberdemon's dummy thicc, i wonder how much he can deadlift
Thank you for retroactively adding in the chapters to videos.
Heh...Imp Encounter.
How long has it been since that spawned on the net?
Better question is how long has it been since it stopped grossing us out lol
@@Llortor Far too long. Mainly because we've all been desensitized by far more nasty crap drifting around on the web.
Yes! I was getting nervous not seeing decino in my subs list for 2 whole days.
13:59 pure evil in few seconds.
I love that edit on 10:10, is pure gold.
Also, I love your content because I love Classic Doom and of course, every Doom game so far.
And things like this are why I stick to "Hurt me plenty."
Edit: Ok I've actually completed ultra violence at this point on episodes 1-3 but still screw nightmare
Edit 2: I've almost completed doom 2 on ultra-violence. : )
Edit 3: Either I am still pathetic or the execution of the Icon of wall is just bad, but I completed doom 2 on ultra-violence with the exception of map 32 and map 30.
ultra violence + fast monster for me. i can't deal with not being able to kill everything in a level. completely ignore that nightmare even exists.
I play ultra violence with no speedy sonic demons,
to hard doomguy says.
Who would win:
One massive cyber thick boy?
Or
Many Lost boyz?
nah only one lost boi (the glitch in his fight)
Lost souls. Cuz Civvie 11 hates them.
Chaingun dude is the beefiest aimbot ever made. All you can say is "I can't see shit" and something to the effect of "I'm dead".
I once played a troll mod that changed stuff in the original levels. The cyberdemon was replaced with a chaingunner with equal health as the cyberdemon... Yikes!
he forgot commander keen, we need to know how strong he is
Do Plutonia next ! This list is awesome. I struggle with chain gunners the most in doom II when they ambush me, it's usually a losing DPS battle
*Chaingunner roar*
*CHAINGUN INTENSIFIES*
Your absolute worst nightmare.
Why am I not surprised that hit scanners are high tier enemies
Pain Elementals in Doom 64 are significantly worse, because they have 2 mouths this time which can spawn 2 lost souls and the lost souls in Doom 64 are much faster and deal more damage.
9:36
Peter narrates a documentary.
10:36 Doomguy: *dies*
Revenant: yes, it is i, the mighty dooter who has defeated the doomguy
The ego you gave it made me think of Papyrus from Undertale.
Decino:There actually aren't that many hell knight encounters in doom 2 that are considered dangerous
Doom 2 no rest for the living:well yes but actually no
10:11 didn't see that one coming
1:14 SPIDER MASTERMIND
2:33 ICON OF SIN
2:59 HELL KNIGHT
3:41 IMP
4:19 CYBERDEMON
5:18 ARACHNOTRON
5:43 ARCHVILE
6:24 PINKY
6:58 ZOMBIE MAN
7:43 BARON OF HELL
8:01 MANCUBUS
8:34 SPECTER
9:17 SHOTGUNER
10:09 ☠REVANENT☠
11:09 CACO DEMON
12:20 PAIN ELEMENTAL
12:45 LOST SOUL
13:27 SS NAZI
13:56🔥 *CHAINGUNER* 🔥
The sound that Revenant makes when he spots you is to me like the sound of birds singing.
The Spider Mastermind was criminally underutilized in Doom II. One of my favorite adversaries of old-school Doom.
11:44 Pain elemental shooting to the wall.
Where is the hanging commander keen????
P.s: anyone stating that chaingunner isn't the most deadly foe in nightmare mode will reveal he hasn't played vanilla DooM.
I think in Plutonia Revenant would be on Pain Elemental place and Arch-Ville would be more higher :D
Yea I'd agree on chaingunners as SS even on non-nightmare... they're the most intimidating thing in Gantlet and never forget the death room on map09... sure arch-viles are irritating and make you duck behind walls, and Cyberdemons are nasty as hell when you actually fight them, but Chaingunners are normally the ones killing you even when you're prepared just because there are too many hitscan bullets to avoid.
Good news, Switch ports of Doom 1 and 2 patched in fast monsters. Now you can get wrecked by turbo monsters on the go as you try and avoid chaingunners why trying to stay calm in public.....or at least while taking a dump.
That aside this is THE video that not only got me into this channel but awoke my love of Doom after not playing for over 15 years. Cant thank you enough.
The joke about the SS officers was absolutely hilarious. Bravo, Decino.
13:06
Talking about DOOM. “And will make your life a living heck”
_Heck._
12:23 Them Bones? Good choice for describing the most hateful beings.
1:09
It was enough ironic that when you said "Start up with Tier F" the last died demon was Spider Mastermind
I was having such a shitty night due to a lot of problems but the Wolfenstein "mein leben!" joke made me laugh for the entire rest of the video!
T'was so good I'm going to sub right now.
Another one would be the shotgunners in the blood falls tunnels where you get your energy cells supply. Those are fuxking annoying
14:41: 178% health and 89% armor.
3 seconds later: Dead.
Everyone: *Legit talking about the demons and strats/nightmare memes*
Me: 11:14 *DEEP INHALE.... SLAPS A TABLE!* FINALLY SOMEONE ELSE SAID CACODEMONS ARE CUTE!!!!
A.
Cacodemons are my favorite demons in DOOM. If there was DOOM merch, I think Cacodemons would make the best most comfy pillows ever, espeically giant ones! And if they made the eye on them glow like when they spit their firealls would be so awesome too!
@@LisaTigressHardy I'd play millions for a Cacodemon plushie.
Good work guys, even though I don't do speed runs, I think it's interesting to watch and know where monsters stand for the brave fools who choose to do these runs.
F tier: Spider Mastermind, Icon of Sin.
D tier: Hell Knight, SS trooper.
C tier: Imp, Cyberdemon, Arachnotron, Archvile, Pinky.
B tier: Zombieman, Hell Baron, Mancubus, Spectre.
A tier: Shotgunner, Revenant, Cacodemon.
S tier: Pain Elemental, Lost Soul.
SS Tier: Chaingunner.
well, when youre trash at this game like i am, all enemies are tier SS. maybe the chaingunners should have their own tier if you apply frustration and keyboard-slamming factor corrections
I kinda assumed the monsters with guns that hit you instantly and come in plentifull numbers would dominate the list. As a kid they actually annoyed me the most as well just simply because I couldn’t dodge their attacks like every other monster in the game that throws a fireball you can see coming and dodge.
10:11 when you don't have a such voice but you step on a Lego
I'd really love to see a tierlist for the enemies based on every doom wad you've ever played. Or should I more put it like... a tier list based on the POTENTIAL of each monster. From what I've seen after watching a lot of your video playthroughs of different wads, archviles and revenants seem to be the most threatening.
Chaingunners are snipers who can miss and never stop shouting when you in their sight! Absolutely brutal but hey I love them because they present challenges. I’m not sure if they intended them to be such pains in the ass, but the mods know this and put them in far and hard places to get them kudos!!
"These Chainginners want nothing more than to make you cosplay as a piece of Swiss cheese" holy F another nice video this channel is amazing